Self-Sabotaging the Affair Recovery Process: Help for the Betrayed
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
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Samuel is an infidelity survivor and is one of many contributors to Affair Recovery's Survivors’ Blog, www.affairrecovery.com/our-blog. He participated in Affair Recovery's courses developed by founder and infidelity expert Rick Reynolds, LCSW. After finding healing, hope, and new life, Samuel wishes to share his journey and what AffairRecovery.com has to offer with others so they too can find hope and healing.
when my ex told me " I didn't mean to hurt you." I realized and answered; " But you didn't care if it would."
Knowing it would didn’t stop you.
My spouse wrote to his AP in an email "Neither of us set out to hurt anyone, did we?" I told him that people driving 200mph through a town don't either, but it's reckless and pretty obvious that someone's gonna get hurt. Let's face it, their thinking is warped. We must not blame ourselves for their choices.
So as a AP I told him I was selfish and self centered. So I’m doing the work to change that. Buy my BP stop ask my why I was so selfish
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@@dulcequirarte9220Well, why were you?
Love the dynamic scripting and the back and forth between a former unfaithful and former betrayed. So grateful. This is some of your best work. Incredibly insightful.
thank you so much.
Her comment about the unfaithful not being able to handle "burning for us", WOW, she couldn't have said it any better!
agreed.
An a betrayed i am not sure i understood the line about "burning for us" i have watched this now 7 times and i am still not sure. Can you shed some light please?
@@blackaj69 I am an unfaithful. As I hear what she says, it makes me feel like enduring the pain from both the Betrayed and Unfaithful. Don't quote me on that. I am horrible at this thing. The Betrayed has the pain of the unfaithful's decisions that burn inside of him/her. He/she wants that to be shared for the understanding purposes. So this way the unfaithful will/can understand or grasp what was pushed onto the betrayed without wanting. As far as the Betrayed "burning", the Unfaithful spouse would hope that the Betrayed would understand the pain he/she may be in and understand as the Unfaithful should understand the pain of the Betrayed. It seems to point at both Betrayed and Unfaithful should have "Empathy for one another". I hope this helps, I hope I didn't confuse you more.
That is the biggest problem when the betrayed sees no growth from their wayward. They want us to do all our work and they compare us to others, triggering us. God forbid we ask for them to help us, or do what needs to be done. My kids are grown, I am not raising an adult that wants someone to mommy him.
She is great! Both of you are! I am 10 months into disclosure and you guys have helped me tremendously. I continue to struggle as wife refuses to do any work. I am on this journey alone. I can only control myself no one else. I have lost 50lbs and making my mind and body better.
Thank you for you work guys it is helping me. God bless.
I’ve listened to the last 90 seconds of this on repeat so many times. Thank you Amanda. Thank you AR team.
honored to help.
There's a fine line between reasons and excuses. Often reasons become excusions.
"He can't tolerate pain within himself or in someone else."
😢😢😢
We weren’t connected because the betrayer was connected to his affair partner!!
During the holidays, I realize the person. He cheated on me with... They will never have their family together again Her husband divorced her. Especially during the holidays. And my husband'still wants his family together. He will never see her( my so called best friend again). There is a lot of Hurt I had nobody 2 talk to. But at least I have my family together during the holidays. And I know my husband is trying. I just don't have the same secure feeling. I used to have all those years that he was cheating on me and I didn't know.
The more my husbands opens up about his long term affair, the more shut down and hopeless I feel about any reconciliation. I just don’t want to be with him anymore.
Why
Please share your story! I would love to know how you became the knowledgeable person you are today.
This was so helpful to me- I couldn't verbally express (well), what I now can acknowledge as "FLOODING'. I would try & avoid the word "triggered", knowing it is MUCH MORE INTENSE & painful, than a simple "trigger"... It's the racing heart, the PHYSICAL aspect of overwhelming PAIN & anger... The not being able to think or see straight, and the worst part of it all- Not even being able to express what set me off; at times something so small that otherwise that would be considered "menial", can set that trigger off. It's learning to acknowledge those, and dig deeper past the layers, to figure out what it is about the "trigger" that sets all of the buttons off.. It's work. But again, I'm grateful that at least I can actually express myself in a way where he can understand moments where a trigger can so quickly "spiral". Also, when she expressed the side of the betrayed in the "vulnerable" part, I actually did rewind and IM SO GLAD I DID because it hit SO HARD & made such a MARK on me as far as WHY he behaves the way he does when I'm not being considerate of his "shame"- That it is actually MORE than just "he doesn't care"- He can't stand to look at what HE KNOWS HE CAUSED! It also brought understanding to me as to why he strayed to begin with (not being able to handle pain in his own self). I'M SO THANKFUL FOR THIS CHANNEL
Love these video’s! Thank you!!
We need 8 hours of this! 🧡
That was really good! Thanks!
My wife filed for divorce last month. I'm still praying for reconciliation, but it seems like that isn't realistic. I'm close to Amanda's practice, I'd kinda like to see her, it's gonna be a rough, painful road ahead, no matter what happens.
This was so very helpful. 8 months from Discovery. These videos have been the only thing that's kept me afloat. This has been the best video. I've heard Amanda speak somewhere else.
Thank you
This video has been so helpful.
As a betrayed, I can tell you the pain is excruciating. After several affairs over 24 years, my husband finally abandoned me for his latest AP. I did everything I could over the years to forgive and be empathetic to whatever trauma drove him to the affairs, however, he never was empathetic to me as a betrayed. His current AP convinced him that I am the problem, toxic, and he gave up on me. While, I know I now suffer from PTSD and now Abandonment trauma & even after all I've been thru, I would still do whatever it takes to fix our marriage. I don't know for sure, but all signs point to him also being in MLC. I know I share responsibility for the problems in our marriage, but the shame & grief I now feel is debilitating. Where do I go from here? I always look forward to your new videos. The people who need to be watching these, the unfaithful, won't.
As a fellow betrayed I'm sorry you have been through so much. Not to minimize or reduce the PSTD/abandonment, it sounds like to me that you needed to spend more time working on yourself. Maureen Mcgrath said something interesting about men/women, men cheat to stay while women cheat to leave. The fact that he stayed with you for 24 years meant that he really did have a special place for you but he wasn't able to get what he needed to stop running away from healing. Even though it sounds like the relationship is over, you should search on 'stop fixing your marriage' so that you can hear what other coaches have to say about working on yourself so you can have happier and healthier future relationship. Good luck~
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Time to work on you and your own healing from this trauma (yes, it is excruciating). The future can be bright, but it's up to you to make it so. You can do it, and you've found the right help and support at AR. Bless you.
@@wh6123 while I appreciate your insight, I do and am working on myself. I'm the one paying all the debt left behind, I'm the one taking care of our home we just bought, I have a great job, I work out and I have a full life enjoying my grandkids. I am strong and determined but that doesn't mean I have to give up. My marriage is worth saving and my hope & happiness come from God who loves me unconditionally. It was not my job to heal him or fix him. I can only control and fix me. I am doing that. I pray every day he finds the courage to get help. It doesn't change the pain or the fact that I miss him.
Marty I'm so sorry you are hurting, I'm a betrayed too and the pain is awful. What you've shared so far is horrible and I feel for you. I'm guessing you never got resolution / emotional closure for his prior infidelities and so the hurt just snowballed with each relapse. They have a course called Harboring Hope that is a good step if you haven't considered it already. Also unfortunately I agree with your comment, that the unfaithful generally don't seek this information. I have found it helpful to remind myself that the unfaithful have a dysfunction, and you can't address that dysfunction for them. As much as you want to reach out to him and try to fix things and try to make it work, my fear is until he is safe for you all that will happen is your hurt and trauma will compound. I'm very, very said for your situation.
This is SO good! Invaluable information. Thank you!
This is pure gold!!! I agree the very last part of this is so so GOOD!
Exceptional video! You really nailed this one!
thank you.
Thank you AMANDA, I BEEN FOLLOWING RICK SINCE JUNE OF 2017 ,
Best content yet! So helpful and gives me hope to stay in the fight and keep doing the work. Thank you both so much!
honored to help.
Wow this was gold 👌
I loved the role playing and the dialogue between a former unfaithful & a former betrayed. So vivid and so true.
I have to ask though:
What is the second reason the betrayed might not feel empathy for the unfaithful (apart from his/her personality)?
My Absolute Favorite video. It’s funny rewound that 10 seconds right before Samuel said he might want to rewind 10 seconds. I watched the video 3 times. I love her explanation because I am just like her in my reactions. Every time I watch all these videos I never know what they mean by safety.
This was a good video thank you ❤️🙏🏼
I really liked that back and forth. Great video
This channel has helped me through hard times as a betrayed. Thanks for all the insight into the deep issues involved with this situation and helping me understand what my wife didnt.
I agree with this ...I wish the unfaithful could just accept & understand this
Thank you for the explanation. My husband feels that I am attacking him personally when I am triggered. Honestly, even I cant imagine why I have said that to him! Then I explained to him, that it is not about him, it is about me, i remember the past rejection, abandonment, everything. But I don’t know if he believes me. Okay I will forward this video to him. Thank you so much. I hope he’ll be enlightened after watching this video!
Who else is there to attack except the person who caused your grief!!
Phenomenal video!!! Absolutely the most accurate explanation- SO beneficial fot both partners!!! 🤯🔥🙌♥️
thank you for watching and commenting.
Thankyou❤
Amazing content! As an unfaithful, I went to treatment at Gentle Path ant tue Meadows and worked with HIGHLY trained therapists. I’m grateful and blessed to have had the opportunity to go there.
But the truth is there are so many clinicians who do not fully understand the dynamics of infidelity and betrayal trauma. So they treat the patient and not the coupleship.
This video helped me to understand what I did not know I was doing in trying to save my marriage and family. I was stuck in my own shame and self pity.
THANK YOU….
I also had to experience that not all psychologists/ therapists really understand what is at stake and what is important.
During a couples appointment with my husband's psychologist, where I wanted to discuss a specific issue that is giving me a stomach ache (my husband told me that on meeting the young woman he was having his emotional affair with - and he was only not been in bed with her because she always rejected him - always had condoms with him, but actually he had no intention of having sex with her... huh?) the psychologist asked me: " why is Is that still important to you? Why don't you just turn your attention to the future?".
Well, maybe because I see my husband's ability to lie to himself and twist the truth as a potential threat to our future?
I would love to hear her story ….
I’m writing poems it helps me to get rid of anger and i say everything there to the person who hit me. It helps a lot. But our situation so strange coz I refuse him so much lately and didn’t accept him as a man as my man, i had depression and he fail… I don’t know what to do so hurts but still love him. 😢😢😢😢
It’s been over a year since disclosure I moved out. Moved back in I quit my job we moved my wife (the unfaithful) started her new career as a Nurse ! I moved wwith them n hopes of moving forward! And supporting my children! We reversed roles I take care of the kids she works! It’s not working! She won’t answer questions and still won’t accept responsibility
Any chance of another video going over what you have said giving more practical advice. Will be watching this about 1000 times but if possible to dissect the information would be extremely helpful for the betrayed. Thank you.
11-15-2023. Spot on!! I feel like you both were in my living room last night as my betrayer and I were circling the drain. Triggers and flooding comes out of nowhere!! It's exhausting..... 😢
Mine was 11/10/2023. Trying to stay together. I, the betrayed, am struggling but getting help.
Probably the most helpful video for me thank you so much. I keep getting trapped in the cycle and my wife feels like I’m jsut being mean and trying to hurt her back. But I messed up pretty bad and said soem mean things now she is mad at me and thinks I’m never going to get over it. Idk what to do I hate it.
I feel you man… we don’t want to hurt the ones we love even though they destroyed us… but sometimes it’s like we are getting pulled back into the pain all over again. It’s been 9 months for me and I still struggle to have the desire to hold this family together… am I the bad guy sad😢
@3:52 - yet, when presented with the fact that the continued affair hurts the betrayed, often times, the unfaithful partner CONTINUES her affair. At that point, it is on purpose.
So if we buy the idea that the initial affair was not intended to harm, once the harm is in the open, the CONTINUED affair, CONTINUED excuses, CONTINUED blame by the unfaithful partner IS a conscious act. At that point, they have decided to IGNORE the harm they are doing, which means they have made a choice with the knowledge that their actions are hurtful.
Therefore, it is with intent. Even if the intent is to simply marginalize how the betrayed feels and tell themselves it's not real, or they are overreacting, etc. They are choosing to hurt at that point.
If you step on my foot and I say ouch, that hurts, but you do not take the action to get off my foot, at that point you are consciously choosing to hurt me. The initial step may have been an accident. Yet the failure to address the hurtful behavior is deliberate harm.
@8:40 - not all unfaithful get there. That's a great assumption of the unfaithful is doing her work. But what's the play if she's still in her affair? Of course she's going to feel attacked when the betrayed tells her, "Hey, what you are doing is hurtful. What does it take to convince or encourage you to stop hurting me?"
We cannot assume the unfaithful is actually doing the work. She may never end her affair and return home, then what?
Turn the tables, the betrayed is doing his work, and his unfaithful wife won't end her affair. He tells her he doesn't want the sort of marriage they had pre-affair either. But no ending of the affair or any engagement in a recovery process. Is it really the betrayed sabotaging the process when the unfaithful refuses to end her affair?
That's a pretty big pre-condition that must be met. Until the affair is ended, it's the affair sabotaging the recovery. Or, at the very least, driving the betrayed to a different sort of recovery that excludes her as part of his life. He's certainly not getting empathy or work as her efforts are exclusively on the affair relationship.
@10:18 - and that safety has to start with the unfaithful partner making it safe for the one she betrayed. If she's not yet made it safe for her betrayed husband, the issue isn't his response to her hurtful behavior (presuming it's not violent or degrading, simply justified anger at being betrayed, making it clear that her actions are hurtful and the continuation of those actions continues to cause pain.)
If the unfaithful isn't offering safety by ending her affair and being honest with her betrayed spouse, is there really any reasonable expectation of empathy while her abusive, hurtful behavior continues?
@11:08 - is that how you feel about them as a person, or what they either did, or are STILL doing.
I'd say it's an appeal to them as a person, not an animal acting out of the lizard brain. The unfaithful wants to experience empathy, but will not stop acting out of the lizard brain by continuing the hurt to get something they want. The betrayed is hoping they will become an empathetic human and stop hurting them. Especially if they are still engaged in the affair.
The unfaithful spouse doesn't always try to return to the one she betrayed. She may continue to run from the intimacy she claims she was seeking.
It just seems ironic, she wants that close relationship, but torpedos it by choosing an affair with another over her spouse who was willing to work on her complaints.
Instead, she continues the affair.
The fantasy is more appealing than the reality of work.
Best video of all out of sooo many helpful videos... this one is best. Rewound so many parts. In the end the disconnect being the reason ... if it's a sex addict with multiple partners, would you still say it's the reason? I feel it's their fear of real intimacy and they let you think you connected with them but only to one of their lives... hard to explain..
Either way this was by far the very most helpful in so many ways.
I think my partner is scared to come to me & end the affair with the other person...I think he has rewrote our history in a bad light & has in his head villinized me
The betrayed lash out due to a cry for help & make it work
This is by far my favorite video..
I understand the work and understand the feelings and sympathy for the unfaithful but Amanda put it out there and owned the conversation!!
Yes, I forgive my wife and yes I understand that she made multiple mistakes, but to assume or even feel like the unfaithful has done enough for this ultimate betrayal and life changing event, will ever be okay.. No..
There isn’t a finish line, and there isn’t a undo button and pretend that it didn’t happen because you are sorry..
My advice, make sure you know who you are marrying, and make sure that the individual honors you and respects you just as much as you do to them..
I am still with my wife and I love her and she is my world, my light right when I first set my eyes on her.. 16 years later, 3 beautiful children, and a life/woman I can’t live without.. She made multiple mistakes but I never once thought about leaving.. I made a commitment to her..
I forgive her, but there is nothing she can do to be the woman I thought she was..
I love her, but it’s a process of meeting someone new, even though she has been my best friend for the past 16 years..
Love y’all’s work!! God bless!
I hope one day to be able to work through these things with my wife. In just over a year she cheated, left and married another man (not the affair partner but a different man that she met after).
We have very little contact but when we do I try to show her love in any way I can and I don’t engage in or initiate conflict.
She is extremely angry at me despite this, but I remain steadfast.
I will wait for her forever if that’s what it takes.
Any prayers would be appreciated.
it's vital you get help for you my friend. you're going to need to do work to heal from such a traumatic experience.
My spouse just told me to drop it. He is here now. If I bring it up is because I'm not over it. My irrational fear is that it'll happen behind my back. I'm trying to give him space without pushing him away 😢
Typically the betrayer is a narcissist, either on the spectrum or with the full personality disorder. Taking responsibility for their actions is the LAST thing a narcissist ever wants to do. Lacking empathy and completely self-absorbed, the betrayer finds reasons why his/her actions were the betrayed's fault. The betrayer never really cared about anyone else, the betrayed was simply a source of narcissistic supply.
sorry that's not true and a gross over exaggeration of unfaithful partners. it is true in SOME cases but not typically and not usually and not ordinarily. any expert who knows what they are talking about from both training and experience will tell you that's not true.
I agree. My husband’s ‘grief’ over his affair was not ending our marriage first before getting involved with the AP, but not apologetic about the affair though. But then again, I don’t believe he ever ended it.
@@samshealingpodcast I respectfully disagree. Narcissism accounts for a significant percentage of betrayal, infidelity and unfaithfulness in marriages. I believe you should address this issue, so that the betrayed spouse watching these videos can determine whether the betrayer is truly capable of change, or is a toxic narcissist who will never change. If the betrayer is a toxic narcissist, there is no "saving" the marriage and it is simply time to move on.
@@heinzbaron9129 very hard to know.
Because he did everything wrong. Starting with just having an affair and then all of the wrong stuff an unfaithful could do.
Blame shifting, self pitty, violent in verbage, comparison, condescending, EVERYTHING a narcissistic would do.
But by listening to these videos, they say it’s « normal » (in the context of course) for the betrayed to feel all this stuff and react like this.
But where is the line to recognize if he is just a narc or hurt and full of trauma?
This is the hardest part.
For me just having an affair it’s extremely selfish and having absolutely 0 empathy and just this for me, means there could be a narcisstic issue.
But then, they say it’s really that.
So I am lost.
Having all the features of a narcissistic, but not being one?
I am lost
Sorry if my comment is a little disorganized or not well written
English is not m mother language.
Agreed. Whether they have the full personality disorder or not, cheating is an abusive thing to do to an unsuspecting spouse. Narcissistic or not, I could never be with another that avoids connecting with me and intentionally connects with another running from their accountability to me. And I especially can’t be with one that lies to me or themselves.
What if the affair is still going on and you have to still interact with your spouse daily? She has moved out but still works from our home everyday. At the end of her day she goes home and lives her other life. None of which is discussed or can be questioned.When I make any comments that have to do with my feelings she is quick to avoid any and all confrontations. We also have a 9 year old daughter who is unaware that an affair took place and is still going on. Thanks.
I have a simple question: what is the difference between a trigger and a reminder?
Does this apply to the betrayed spouse that isn't yet sure they can remain married? How does the betrayed spouse get out of limbo?
yes, it does apply, but having said that it's vital you get your own help and do your own work as that's irreplaceable. what are you doing for you and your own healing? there is nothing wrong with the betrayed going slow, doing work, watching to see if they want to stay or end the marriage.
i would not want to fight her.
My wife had been cheating on me for at least 3 months. I found out only 6 days ago when she herself told me. Almost happily. As if I was a girlfriend of hers and not her loving husband. I’ve been crushed by this and she seems more concerned with losing my friendship or attention. She isn’t remorseful at all and is in denial of what she did. Where do I go from here? I can’t just stop loving her if I wanted to but if she can’t see what she’d done, is it a lost cause? Do I need to stop all contact? Please hear me
I'm in the same situation Jeremy. I am 1 year into it. My wife blurted it out during a heat argument (this is why I cheated on you!). Her solution wad just stop thinking about it and move forward. We'll it doesn't work like that. Especially when she sees her affair partner at work. You cannot control anyone. Just yourself. Work on yourself. Get a good counselor or therapist. I lost 53lbs workout everyday. I'm in the best shape I've ever been. Once you feel better inside and out the pain will get more tolerable. I promise you it will subside. We are almost finalized with our divorce. Now she's begging me. Too late. Quit your job. Refuses. Bye! Hang in there Jeremy you will get through this. You got it! God bless and good luck. 🙂
@@josephdurante5388 6 years on Joseph, but I don't know how to deal with it.
What if unfaithfuls therpaist tells them to leave and apparently brings up none of this. That the betrayed is seemingly toxic...!?
❤❤❤
I see so many betrayed women, but very few examples from the other perspective. I don't know how any man could get past the thoughts????
I need help 😭
I feel you. It’s awful 😞 I send you love ❤
👍🏻
I just want my wife to show the same passion for me as she did her ap. When I was chasing after her she was always I’m tired or I’m sick or I’m old etc. I’m eleven years younger and her ap was forty six years younger. So when I saw text to him saying how horny she was when she didn’t desire me it cut me to my core. I worked hard so she wouldn’t have to so when I hear the same excuses now five years later it’s hard not to be triggered or want to find someone who desires me like she used to.
UW and I just watched this. The only thing she cherry-picked was the last minute of video. Go figure
Well at least your UW watched it together. I'm still struggling which video to start with in-denial complacent UW. I'm thinking maybe just go straight to EMS.
What do you mean cherry picked? That last minute was the BOMB. Wouldn’t you want to hear that from her? Maybe it’s different if the betrayed is male? Because from my perspective that last bit is EXACTLY what would begin to rebuild my marriage and my feelings.
@@wh6123 I did the EMS weekend with an UW that sounds a lot like yours. Denial, complacent (good word choice), uncooperative. I chose the weekend vs. the online because I had zero confidence that she would participate in the online. It was a good weekend and the activities were very well tailored to your healing. However, it did not change my UW's mind. She quit the aftercare and that was that. You can only do so much for her.
@@ToFishTeacher became, she hasn't done ANY work.
I watched this video 10X, I keep trying to figure out if I have done exactly this because I have done the work, why is he not receptive and why does he not want to reconcile? It’s been 5 years, he won’t leave but won’t let us live either. My affair happened 22 years ago and he says it’s because we are on different time zones. I’m treating it like if it happened 5 years ago. I have been doing therapy for the affair, for my sexual abuse, to better myself. I have worked on my career to better our lifestyle, I gotten closer to god. The only thing I have not been able to be consistent in is my working out. None of it has made a difference. He has been on antidepressants for a year that has helped him but not us. Not sure what else to do. I will not kick him out but I do ask why is he still here if he doesn’t want to work on our marriage. Our kids are grown.
It’s not about forgiveness, it’s about desire. Rollo Tomassi
If the betrayed intend to shame and wound you, they don't love you and if they don't they wont even give you a second chance.
Thank yall so much for this, this is what I am going through. It puts alot of perspective for me (unfaithful) see a glimpse of the otherside.