I hate fan service (The Obi-Wan Kenobi show was bad)(full spoilers)
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- Soo…needless to say, the Obi-Wan show let me down :( I’m interested to hear your thoughts on fan service and whether Disney Plus will every decide to write a new, original story.
Also, this is full spoilers.
Chapters
00:00 - Tell me how you really feel
00:48 - What is fan service?
02:37 - Fan service and Star Wars
08:59 - The future of Star Wars
11:23 - Fan service, yay or nay? 
Развлечения
My nostalgia got me through about 3 episodes and then I couldn't ignore how terrible this show was.
This show was great. The third best movie/series in the past 25 years.
@@reek4062 Politely, disagree.
@@reek4062 it was garbage
The first two episodes were kinda decent. Young Leia is the best part of the show by far.
It´s all downhill from there, though.
Stranger Things was an apt choice for comparison. Throughout all four seasons they’ve dropped 80’s easter-egg/fan service that was never fully on-the-nose. It references without finishing each reference, and it works. I appreciate your commentary!
Yeah, they really did a good job of keeping "the 80s" as a SETTING, and not letting it completely overwhelm the plot or character development. It's a super hard line to walk but I think they do a good job at it.
I love the new kind of fan service where they go out of their way to piss off the fans with IGN blogposts, twitter hot takes, etc. "You won't like it. And here is why that's a good thing!"
ok but so true??? IDK if you are a Wheel of Time fan but I felt like the entire time they were just laughing in our faces 😭
@@Bookborn As I die-hard Wheel of Time fan, I refer that show in name only, cause they didn’t even get the most important part right, that Rand is THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER.
I recently re-awakened my Star Wars love (purchased 14 books this year…not ashamed!), and I find it so frustrating that that they have so many already well written books and comics that they can draw from. Yet they refuse to use these and the legend stuff. I want a movie or mini series on Vader and Xizor (Shadows of the Empire is awesome) or something on Darth Revan and Traya/Kreia! I mean there’s so much there!
Because the people making Disney Star Wars are not Star Wars fans.
Way late to this. It's toy money. This is going down the rabbit hole of how the sausage is made. The way those things work on product licenses is weird. Lets say they wanted to do an X-Wing series, which would be great, X-Wing was good. They may not only have to pay the original author to license the book, all toy sales are per item sold. So they do a couple series and hit the Wraith Squadron arc and the most unholy thing ever happens. Wedge with a stuffed Ewok strapped to his chest hits big and Kettch stuff starts selling out everywhere. So now they have to pay Aaron millions in royalties. Most production companies wouldn't care, ancillary product sales are icing on the cake. Everyone makes a few extra million so everyone is happy. That isn't how Disney became Disney though. To Disney ancillary product sales are everything. Baby Yoda is going to be on shelves for decades, it'll end up making them more than the entire production cost of the first season of The Mandilorian. Disney doesn't want to share. At all. There are years worth of lawsuits against Disney for not paying royalties to people. Disney would rather spend more than is owed litigating royalty complaints so anyone who's owed the same knows what the are in for and doesn't even try asking for their money. It's a well known Disney MO. All the Legends stuff was sidelined from ever being added to a Disney movie or TV show unless Lucas already had deals in place and had licensed them to media... Thrawn. Disney took one look at all the old contracts and said, "Nope!", they ain't paying all these authors a dime beyond what is already owed. Star Wars is particularly thorny though. All those Legend characters went through several different authors writing several different versions of characters. Some characters got walled off. Only one writer in all of the authors of the Legends books were allowed to write them. That character is theirs and theirs alone. Lucas was nice about that to an extent if authors asked for it, he understood why they may have come up with plans and didn't want anyone mucking them up. For the vast majority that is not the case. So who does Disney pay?
@@halycon404reading this reminded me how much I hate how Disney has become a...Well Southpark explained it better than I could. Evil incarnate
So no one's gonna talk about Ryan George's sudden, unexpected glow up in this video? Okay then...
A small amount of fanservice can work (Hoid showing up in Cosmere books for example) but Disney's problem is there is no substance to any of their Star Wars content so fanservice is a stand in for actual character work or new and exciting stories or locations.
The Star Wars universe at this point feels like the same 20 characters and five locations on repeat when it should be a vast, diverse universe.
"fanservice is a stand in for actual character work" 💯
💯💯💯💯💯 Thank you for being a voice for so many people on this topic. The Kenobi series was so typical of the hackneyed material we’re being served far too often, particularly in this franchise.
Supposed emotional moments that are unearned (and use previous material as a crutch). Fake-out deaths for shock value. Inexplicable character motivations. Pointless twists for the sake of twists.
Throw in the cheap sets, cheap music... you already mentioned all the glaring plot contrivances.
This show is the epitome of laziness. Lack of passion. Lack of understanding of story. Arrogance.
Excellent job on your video 👍 ✌️ And that intro 😂
The worst part of the fake-out deaths is like they are of characters that we KNOW ARE ALIVE like what was the point 😭
@@Bookborn I would, personally, argue that[ at least in the Kenobi series specifically with Luke] it wasn't a fake-out death at all...just because we didn't always immediately get to see how the possible[-or-near]-death was in fact averted, despite already knowing that it would be. (But maybe that's just me..😅 idk. 😁🤷♀️)
I don't personally think that utilizing/necessitating/[ knowledge-of] previous material is always innately a bad thing, for an individual installment within a greater whole. And, in my opinion, every individual movie or series that follows the same characters progressing along various point within an otherwise same or immediately-connected/related storyline IS an individual installment within a greater whole...and I don't think that every franchise or series of that sort of nature necessarily always has to be approached or assembled in exactly the same type of way. Like, I think it's okay if some do standalone each individual installment as an independent story featuring the same character(s) but as fully appreciable by unfamiliar audiences as by familiar audiences while others actually function like a single part of a continuous whole broken down into more digestible segments not nearly as appreciable by unfamiliar audiences as by those who are already familiar with the other parts. But maybe that's just me, idk.
As a fellow Scot, I can confirm that his name isn't pronounced like Ian, phonetically it's you-an. As for the show I didn't bother watching that as I just can't be bothered with new Star wars films or shows any more. there's only so much disappointment I can take.
OOOPS lol I haven't been pronouncing this wrong my entire life or anything...thanks for the clarification 😅
Since I never knew how to pronounce his name I simply rhymed it with Ewok.
I don't know why, but for some reason I'd had the impression that it was actually pronounced a little more like "Owen"/"oh-when", just with something a little more like an 'eh' or 'uh' sound than a straight-up 'oh'-sound. ((If that even makes any sense.)) But I literally have zero idea why I had that impression-somehow I thought I'd actually heard it pronounced that way by Ewan himself before, or maybe my brain/memory/ just had trouble properly recollecting and/or reconciling my Americanized knowledge of the spelling together with the pronunciation I'd heard in hindsight later on after the fact[?], idekk. 😶 😅🤦♀️🤣🤣
Knew it wasn't pronounced like Ian though, for whatever that is/isn't/ worth(since I was still wrong)! Loll 😆
So, I actually went and searched up a clip of Ewan McGregor introducing himself immediately after watching this video to set myself right.🤭😊
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 When I posted the phonetic pronunciation above I should have probably used "ewe", like the female sheep, rather than "you". Both are pronounced in exactly the same way, but it might have made more sense to people why the name is pronounced in that way.
@@thewhiskybowman Ah.. hmm ... possibly true. 🤔 idk 🤷♀️
Don't worry though, your comment at least had nothing to do with my own confusion, mine had started years ago and I had already gone and corrected it finally before I even happened to see your comment here at all. I was just kind of bemused to see that the question of how it's actually pronounced had been addressed in the comments too, since looking up how he pronounces it was the first thing I had done personally in a different window after watching this video before even perusing the comments here at all[ because the way Bookborn pronounced it in this video differed from the way that I had originally thought it was pronounced and made me curious how he actually pronounces it himself as I didn't actually know for sure how I'd come up with the pronunciation that had been in my mind originally to know before looking it up if I or Bookborn was even pronouncing it correctly or not myself either...so it had compelled me to want to know the correct pronunciation like I probably should have made more of an effort to do years ago]. 🙂
It never ceases to amaze how bad the writing in many recent star wars shows/movies is. Is it seriously that hard for hollywood to find a few good writers?!? I hate to say this, but I think the best thing for star wars is for it to end. Not every franchise needs to go on forever.
I loved the opening skit. You should include more of them in your videos!
Reminded me a lot of Screen rant if you have ever seen that.
Damn, from now on I‘m going to link this video when I‘m in a discussion about Kenobi. You literally summarized every problem I had with Kenobi perfectly. :D
They even copied the best moment in Kenobi from Rebels.
I also dislike fan service with all my heart and I‘m going to skip future legacy shows or movies.
Oh yeah, I should've talked about that - that Anakin half-mask scene was totally ripped off, wasn't it??
@@Bookborn Yeah, in my opinion it was totally a rip off and Rebels did it even better.
You should definitly check CW and Rebels out if you want to some good SW cotent in my opinion, at least the main episodes like the Darth Maul arc or the metioned episode from Rebels. They also have fan service but the story also works perfectly without having seen any other SW content.
As a long time SW fan, I'm also pretty disappointed with the quality of Disney productions but Rebels was definitly their best SW content together with TLJ. :D
@@Bookborn considering what they did with the great inquisitor and the bounty hunter dude from BoBF, it seems like they're soft-retconning the animated series continuity, even the Mandalorian took some elements from the Mandalore plot from CW and, while still consistent to the canon, it feels like they're going to make some changes to the established lore from the animated series.
I really loved your skit at the beginning. Awesome. You should do more like that.
It was out of my comfort zone but maybe I'll try it again 😅
@@Bookborn That would be awesome.
Character arcs. Exactly why I am not excited for Andor. Dude had a whole arc in Rogue One. Spy doing terrible stuff for the great good but hates himself for it >>> Self sacrificing hero finding contentment.
What are we supposed to watch in the show? They're gonna go Breaking Bad with it?
You should definitely give Andor a try! Especially if you liked Rogue One. It doesn't lean on fan service but it's there in the background (especially Luthen's shop). It's the best Star Wars content I've seen since seeing the prequel trilogy as an 8-12 year old. And I might even enjoy it more than the OG trilogy (but that's probably just recency bias speaking). It's not fast paced so be ready for a slower burn (especially the first two episodes of each 3 episode arc).
Tony Gilroy has created something that has tension and life and has far exceeded my expectations so far. The 6th episode was amazing. The acting has been superb and the writing has impressed me. We're only halfway through the series, so there's still time for them to mess it up, but I have a good feeling about it.
I'm for sure going to try Andor, Ive heard too much good stuff at this point. I ignored it at first because of Obi Wan...but they are drawing me back in 😂
@@Bookborn your video made me try Kenobi since I have Disney+ at the moment and I could barely make it through the first episode. The acting and writing quality between the two shows is night and day in my opinion.
It's my first time watching a video of yours, and I have a feeling you'll continue watching any new star wars shows. I can tell your a fan and like a true fan we sit through the bad and the good. 🙂
You already know I’m with you on this one 😏 so I was coming here expecting to agree with you 😂 your argument was well articulated as always, keep it up!
Nothing better than watching stuff we agree with 😂
what they need to do is to hire Chris Avellone (Writer of KOTOR 2) who when tasked with the job of writing the narrative of KOTOR 2 had little to no interest in star wars, but went and watched the movies and read the comics and novels just to get an idea of how the universe works in order to write a great story.... that's dedication...
Anakin's statement actually makes sense in the larger canon. In the larger Star Wars universe almost no one knows that Anakin and Vader are the same person, and believing that Vader killed Anakin during Order 66 was a common belief and one that Darth Vader often encourages.
Yeah I have no problem with that - like even Obi-Wan says later that Vader killed Anakin - it's that it's played as a revelation, as if Anakin chose this path and has remorse somehow. Maybe I misinterpreted the scene, but it seemed like he was having "a moment" that shouldn't come until later.
@@Bookborn See I read it more as he was trying to gloat based on the fact that it looked like he was almost smiling as he said it.
Right, I saw it as Anakin robbing Obi-Wan of agency in a sense, proud that he became Vader on his own (the unintended consequence being that it relieves Obi Wan’s guilt). YET in an earlier episode, Anakin says the opposite. “I am what you made me” 🤦♂️ So once again, cool fan service moments that actually make no sense.
Sometimes I think what Disney should have done is have stories revolving around characters who are living through the events of the original trilogy. This was done in anthologies such as "Tales of the Mos Eisley Cantina" and "Tales of Jabba's Palace." In these short stories, we saw what was happening to characters like Bib Fortuna and even characters we only glimpsed for a moment while the events around Luke, Leia, Obi Wan and Han Solo were unfolding. Think of the base on Hoth, for instance. Each of those many rebels running about and each of the Imperials up in the fleet had stories to tell.
Great video. I wasn't sure why, when watching the show, I would just skip through many sections but you hit the nail on the head. Good analysis.
Great video! The only fan service in the Obi-Wan show that I liked was the "Hello There", in the end.
There was one line in the Original Trilogy that could have justified the show. When Luke is trying to convert his father, Darth Vader says that Obi Wan once thought as he did. But nowhere in the show does Obi Wan try to convert him back to the light.
The quality of the sets seemed like a slightly better version of the sets of Star Trek from the 90’s.
The show was more brutal than it needed to be. I have no problem with brutality, but the violence in the George Lucas’s movies was always toned down, except at key moments where it mattered.
There’s much more to complain about, so I’ll sum it up saying, they mixed everything they could think of in the show and forgot to add the Spirit of Star Wars
Hmm that's super interesting point, maybe the Vader/Obi-Wan scenes would've worked better for me if they went more along that tract of him still not giving up hope.
I think 'once thought as you do' is referring to Luke only seeing things from Obi-Wan's perspective (i.e. the light side). I don't think it was meant to mean Obi-Wan tried to turn Vader back, but that Obi-Wan thought the light side was the answer.
Consider on Mustafar, Anakin says, 'I do not fear the Dark Side as you do'.
Obi-Wan is pretty adamant on Mustafar that he won't compromise on principles for loyalty.
He talks about Anakin in past tense.
Consider, Luke surrenders and throws down his lightsaber. He carries his father out of the Death Star.
Obi-Wan warns Anakin, but defends himself. he leaves Anakin to die of his burns after his own pride left him in that state.
They do have a parallel in that they both say they cannot kill him to their mentor before the confrontation, but the action plays out differently.
Wow in my opinion you have hit this dead on. Literally every point is what I have been discussing with my friends. I watch a lot of you tube geeky shows where they dissect new films and shows but I think most were too scared to really break it down in too much detail.
Lazy lazy writing, the possibility of Star Wars is endless to keep coming back to the same characters or desperately linking them to past shows has to end.
The thing I can't put my finger on is why? People will say its because of money but that's rubbish as a new Star Wars show set in the past (Star wars old republic anyone?) or future or whatever would still bring in millions of viewers and perhaps even more interest.
Disney please pull your fingers out of your behind and do something original!
I think on the money aspect is it takes less money to write things quickly; not take the time to hire the right people for the job or rewrite/re-edit if things go wonky. But it's unfortunate because more money would be made if it was an off-the-charts success.
I usually love reboots, re-imagines, and sequels. Example being the new Halloween movies. But I have to agree with you here. I was looking forward to Kenobi myself, and then found it laughable. For ALL of the points you've listed.
I was a little better on Book of Boba Fett, moreso because I enjoyed all the flashbacks and I didn't mind Old-Man-Fett and his more peaceful outlook in life. Even if it did demystify him. (Just didn't care for The Power Rangers being introduced into Star Wars)
But anyways, I mainly feel that Disney is trying to market these shows more towards kids, and that they feel their fan service will rope in the adults as well. But obviously it's just not working 🙄
Great Video, you really did say it all
See I'd even have respect if they went full on kid-mode, but it feels like Kenobi doesn't really fit either, you know? It's like one foot in adult and one foot in kids. Although I guess if we are talking the preteen audience, then maybe it's perfect. I just wish they'd advertise it as that then... (Although, it being for kids doesn't excuse bad writing, look at Avatar the Last Airbender - it's wildly regarded as amazing storytelling while also being a show aimed at kids)
@@Bookborn I feel like one-foot-in-adult / one-foot-in-kids actually perfectly sums Disney up. Lol (Especially in the current era, where even less is viewed as kids appropriate nowadays than used to be considered perfectly acceptable...at least, as long as it only happened off-camera or was not as graphically or explicitly shown as it might otherwise have been.[ Not to mention there are all the formerly-kids who loved it, who are no longer kids anymore, now sharing it with their own kids, and all.] ...if that makes sense.)
To be fair, the Obi-Wan Kenobi series _IS_ actually rated TV-14, though. So maybe there is something to the 'for teens[/preteens]' angle theory? 🤔🤷♀️🤷♀️🙃👀😅😁
You beat the Pitch Meeting for this by one day.
There's is so great, as always
I'm glad you mentioned the running in the forest scene. That helped me stop watching the show at episode 2
Sometimes I just want to be like...how did that get past SO many eyes? How did THAT many people approve this scene?
Just about everything Disney has made in the last few years for all of their franchises is based entirely on fan service rather than decent writing.
😭 I mean you're not wrong but I'm sad about it
I suppose that possibly depends entirely on whether you view fan service itself as inherently non-decent writing or not.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I’m not saying fan service can never be employed with good writing, I am merely saying that the writers for Disney have been relying on fan service to carry their stories rather than decent writing. It’s a matter of what’s at the foundation of the story.
@@justanothervoice2538 And I was suggesting that[ I personally believe] it is also possible to create something purely for the sake of continuing the love of existing things, constructing a thing totally differently than you would if it was something totally new and/or independent, even as the core/foundation of a story-and I still don't think doing that, alone, is actually tantamount to bad writing. Even if it might not be to every potential-audience person's preference, and/or even if it might also be nice sometimes to see things that don't do that too. (And holding something created in that way or for that purpose to all the same exact measures or standards as things that are not constructed in that same way or for that particular purpose, in my opinion, would be a little akin to criticizing a Romance as being terribly written just because nothing happened in it other than two characters meeting and interacting-with and eventually falling for each other & then getting together in the end; unless you know for a fact that it was actually its creator's intent to do more than just that with it, and yet they still failed to actually do so. But that's maybe just me. Lol)
((I'm not saying that the Kenobi series actually did have the best writing/construction that it could have[ regardless of which thing was or wasn't actually the case], either, though. I really don't think it did. I just don't agree that certain aspects which some people point to as being bad writing were actually bad writing so much as it was just a difference in particular individual stylistic/story choices or directions. If that makes sense[?]-not that you were talking about the Kenobi series specifically yourself, I just wanted to cite something slightly more specifically just in order to try and put what I was saying more generally into perspective a bit too...if that really makes any more sense either.😶😅😊🙂 Lol))
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I see what you’re saying, and I’m actually not disagreeing with you. As I said in a separate comment, The Mandalorian is pure fan service, but it is, as you put it, continuing on what exists out of love for it, which is a good form of fan service. And generally, I find that kind of fan service lends itself to better writing because the creators clearly care on some level.
However, the type of fan service in question in this video is not out of love for the source material. It is generally a cheap and hollow attempt to lure in viewers in the first place and placate them as they watch to keep them from thinking about anything else too hard.
Really, I think the thing we’re talking about here should be called fan bait rather than fan service. Can we make that a thing? The Mandalorian is fan service, Obi-Wan Kenobi is fan bait.
Question for you: what "story telling techniques" were you thinking of you when said that in your review? I definitely agree with you, and you have clarified my thoughts on why I'm just, well, underwhelmed with the new Star Wars shows (in general). Thank you in advance! Also, I think such techniques would be good to know for RPGs that I run. Thank you!
I think one thing that stands out to me as bad writing overall is that Leia is captured and saved in episode 1-2 and in 3-4. The exact same story event happens and is resolved in the same way- a daring rescue by the hero.
It's hard to point out sometimes, but if we keep it simple - the one mentioned below is totally right, repetitiveness when it doesn't serve you can be annoying. Or, trying to make tension out of moments that *can't* have tension - like when it looks like Reva is deciding to kill Luke, we already KNOW she decides not to. Luke is alive in Episode 4! So why is the tension on the question? The tension should be on how she got there - but they didn't do any character development for her, so it couldn't be there.
It can also be as simple as knowing how to get information across. Stranger Things season 1 does this excellently. Hopper, for example, we find out who his character is in a lot of different ways. Through moments with him interacting with other characters, the way we see others react to him, AND even some one-off conversations about him between others. It's all small, it's all natural, but it paints us a picture about who he is. Honestly ST does a great job at letting us get to know characters in an efficient way.
@@Jo_B_art I think the intention was to make part 1-6 'homage' episode 1-6.
But while it was done fairly loosely in the first two, and just about acceptable, part 4 and part 5 were so overtly like their episode numbers it was jarring.
Especially considering ANH has the same characters in the same situation, and was only recently remade as TFA...
I don't really know why they bothered with that idea in the first place. It might have made sense for a video game or another show entirely, but as I said, you get Leia, Vader and Obi-Wan in part 4 doing the same thing as 'episode IV'.
Brainless. They don't really understand what Lucas meant by 'rhyming', they just repeat.
@@Bookborn I disagree that we already knew she decides not to. I mean, sure, we can certainly obviously suspect that she might/would-it would be just as bad if she had done so without any proper setup laid for her to have made the choice from. But until she carried him out of the desert, literally anything could have happened to stop her instead of her own choice. I mean, it wasn't even entirely (visually) clear to me if that flash of Vader was a traumatic flashback to her past OR actually like Vader somehow legit showing up there himself or reaching out into her mind through The Force or some-such. (I mean, it wouldn't have been the first time the series had utilized ye old "by all accounts, it doesn't make sense[ how the the badguy got there first at all]" -trick; even if, that time, perhaps Reva may have actually somehow gone around the outside and found the other entrance or wherever they were going to have exited the tunnel on the other end or whatever. Who knows what they were thinking, or not, honestly; it just made me think of The Emperor's New Groove and literally every adventure movie made before the year when that movie came out that always had the badguys somehow 'get there first' whether it made any logical sense how or not.) Lol
But that's possibly just me, and my weird brain / eternally extended benefit-of-doubt/ , or something. ^--^ 🤷♀️😁 (Like, it's not final, until it's really final[ ?]. idekk)
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 Luke is alive in the original Star Wars movie (Episode IV A New Hope), which takes place after the events of this series. The original Star Wars movie, that introduced us all to Luke and Leia as adults. If Luke is alive and well, and has no memories of encountering Reva in that movie, then there is no way Reva does any harm to him in this series. Whether she "decides" or is stopped by some other force is irrelevant to the point. Established canon does not allow her the option of harming Luke, therefore there is no dramatic tension in her hesitation and her personal crisis is robbed of any weight because the audience has no reason to invest in the stakes.
This show did not need to exist. It takes away from the ending of the prequels which was operatic and powerful despite the corny dialogue. It cheapens Obi Wan and Vader's relationship by repeating again what happened before. None of the new characters were arresting at all. And the sad thing is that whenever criticisms are brought up against the show some people are like "Star Wars has always been dumb and corny" which it has been yes, but it makes no sense to hold to standards that are almost 50 years old now. Star Wars fans deserve better. Kids deserve better and this whole show is an insult to the fans and their intelligence.
OMG YES I keep seeing criticisms like "you only like Star wars as an adult because you liked it as a kid" and I'm like EXCUSE ME when Star Wars came out in the 70s it was literally a SENSATION and it was a sensation among adults. Those movies are still excellent and it has nothing to do with the fact I saw them as a kid. yes they've always been a little corny but that doesn't make them auto-BAD
I'm so glad you made this video. "We'll get Liam Neeson!" had me cackling 😅
We used to call fan service "Easter Eggs" in the west, to make it distinct from the more raunchy connotations. Couldn't agree more with your analysis.
Ahh Easter egg is a good way to describe my favorite type of fan service which is small and unnoticeable in general. Good distinction
The raunchy connotation is basically anime-exclusive, where apparently, what most fans wanted to see was panty shots and booba.
but in general media/culture, "Fan-service" refers to anything that is there just for catering to the fan's attention/nostalgia/dedication, an easter egg is fan-service, but not all fan-service are easter eggs (which are supposed to be subtle and hard to find, hence the name).
Learning way more than I needed to in the replies.
@@alastorcorvus reply: TMI. Send.
I was so disappointed by this show! I really like Obi Wan so had high hopes but I completely agree with the points in this video.
There were so many plot holes and lazy writing conveniences that really took me out of the world and made me feel no tension for the story.
- Why was Obi Wan the only one that could save Leia even though he's in hiding "only you know how important she is" - um!! She's a princess! I think that's important enough to hire someone who isn't in hiding to save her.
- In the second episode Obi-Wan and Leia are walking around casually with no disguise in a city of bounty hunters that were just sent a job with his face all over it. And Obi-Wan knows! He could have kept his gas mask on at least!
- They show up at the rendezvous point in episode 3 and go "hm, nobody here, guess we'll leave right away instead of waiting for the person we're supposed to meet"
- Why on earth does Obi-Wan go outside to find Vader in episode 3 rather than staying with Leia? Zero explanation for this and he should have died, surrounded by enemies. Only plot-armour saved him
I could go on and on! the visuals were awesome though.
Ok now did I not even think about how stupid it is to act like only Obi-Wan knows how important Leia is when she's a literal princess of a senator 😭 So dumb. But agreed that the visuals were stunning - the fights were great!
@@Bookborn Sending Obi Wan of all people after Leia not only endangers Luke and Obi Wan himself, it also proofs that Bail is in contact with a Jedi if the Empire finds out and gave them excuse to arrest his entire family.
Which of course happens, with the Empire getting proof of Bail contacting Obi Wan and deciding in another giant plothole not to do anything about it for another nine years.
Didn't get passed episode 1. When Lea out ran her adult attackers in the forest I started to tune out, where was her bodyguards among other issues. Oh let's see you stand so can read th rest of your t-shirt. Loved the opening scene lol.
It just says Star Wars :) The Leia chase scene is the most hilariously bad thing I've seen in a while. Especially the part where the adult literally stops dead so she can turn around and get away again 😂
@@Bookborn exactly. My brother walked by stopped, looked at that scene and passed judgment he would never waste his time... And. Is sad as like you said I like Obi and could have done some fun stuff with the idea
Love the pitch meeting opening 😂
I've already ordered my sassy 10 year old Leia funkopop and its 5 variants!
But really, it's been so long since I felt any kind of magic from Star Wars.
Honestly, I didn't know how I felt when I finished watching it ... it wasn't bad, wasn't good, seemed like it had moments.
The duel was cool but, it looked like a much easier win than the original when Obi - Wan seemed to give it his all and was literally fighting for his like with every inch of his being. Honestly, Vader looked like a joke where in an episode earlier he was stopping a spaceship with his hand while Obi-Wan was barely able to parry blaster shots.
All in all, I believe you just phrased everything I was thinking about and having doubts on.
Good video! One more follower on Instagram as well ;)
Vader's mask getting damaged and the words shared between him and Obi-Wan has probably become one of my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars. Say what you want about the rest of the series, but this specific moment is perfectly written, directed, and acted. Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen have such good on-screen chemistry. Ewan nails Alec Guiness' speech pattern perfectly. Hayden gets a lot of flak for the prequels sometimes but honestly it's the dialog's fault and not his. George Lucas wrote some wonky lines for that role in the prequel.
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Love the video, which expresses many shared feelings I have with fan service-y type things. Also it was funny.
Your statement that Disney SW is better the further removed it is form the Skywalker ark is spot on. Their story is told and there is an infinite universe of other stories to tell. We never needed Solo/Fett/Obi….we also don’t need a Reva show but that’s a diff issue.
Mando/Rogue/BadBatch/Rebels have just enough “fan service” to connect to the larger story while still standing on their own.
Hard agree. Putting my current hope in Waititi's show...hopefully I don't get let down again lol
@@Bookborn his humor sprinkled through Mando was delightful. The s1 finale scene with the scout troopers trying to shoot rocks is probably the funniest SW scene ever filmed.
Thanks for the review!
I feel the same way and what shocks me is that people ignore these facts and come up with fan theories for this bad writing.
I think I’m done with Star Wars at this point. I’m most likely not gonna watch any Disney Star Wars anymore.
By the way Dave Filoni said Kenobi is in good hands with Deborah Chow so not even he is trustworthy.
I actually had this conversation with someone because Deborah Chow has made some pretty amazing stuff in the past, so I was like - what happened here? My friend's thought was that Chow hasn't consistently stayed with a single show - she's jumped around a lot and done bits and pieces - so maybe doing one single show was something she wasn't prepared to do? Who knows. It's probably a combo of things.
Man, this show was a real stinker for me. I agree with all your points. Given what we have to work with, I think a much better version of this show would be one focused much more on Reva instead of Obi-wan. How cool would it have been to see her trying to survive after being nearly killed as a youngling, only to rise through the ranks of the inquisitors while trying to not be found out by Vader and the other inquisitors. I think it would have been easy to make Obiwan more of a side character as part of her plan to lure Vader out so she could get a killing blow on him. And then you could get the predictable but satisfying arc of her realizing she needs to live for more than just revenge. The way the show is in its current form, Reva stinks and Obiwan goes down a weird character arc that really doesn’t make any sense for him. I would have much rather had him remain the wise old hermit who comes in to teach Reva an important lesson, thus respecting our legacy characters and giving our new ones a clean and well thought out arc.
I agree! That would have been a much better story
I know we all love Obi-Wan, but I kept thinking the entire time that we needed more Reva too. If she had been given way more to do and a more fleshed out character, I think there could've been some cool moments between the two of them. You know, even calling the show Obi-Wan is an issue because it sets up that it has to be ALL HIM. Imagine a show *centered* on him, but not named after him or all about him - opens it up a lot more.
Its kinda sad that in a few years, perhaps a decade that this will actually be Star Wars canon and referenced in future properties. This kind of sloppiness is entrenched in today's writing rooms, and its not going away anytime soon.
Exactly. All the writers grew up together and were "educated" in the same schools of thought. It's nearly everywhere you look.
Also…my ADHD *really* enjoyed your editing on this one!
I wish I could add more clips and jumps in my other videos! It's really hard when it's a book without any adaptation because there's not much to show 😭
In this instance, I am much more likely to blame the studio/executives than the writers who have far less control. Especially following the online reaction to Ep. 8, I think they're a lot less willing to fund storylines and projects that don't heavily rely on familiar characters and stories. Which is a real shame :/
I was def a little glib blaming the writers - it’s probably a combo of showrunners and execs expecting certain things and writers having to match it whether is good or not
I honestly don't know why people are still getting excited and willing to pay for anything Star Wars related these days. To use gaming terms: it's the Assasins Creed of films/tv. The reason why there's so much fan-service in Star Wars these days is because Star Wars to Disney is a product, not art and the best way to maximize profit is just to give people what they think they want without any artistic vision in mind.
As you said, Disney literally get their ideas for new Star Wars projects from internet comment sections. I don't know how many comments I've seen throughout the years like "I wish we could have a Han Solo origins movie/Obi-Wan movie starring Ewan McGregor" and what do you know, that's exactly what we got and Disney had no idea what to do with these ideas.
We all have endless hope lol Although, I think this show broke a lot of people in the fandom, tbh. I've heard a lot more people being like "I'm out"
This show is a massive flop for me. Really though there were a LOT of opportunities to try for Obiwan.
One version: A kid version of Obi with a young Liam Neeson or even a younger actor playing the role of Qui gon.
Another version: A teenage version of Anakin at the age of 12 -14 with a young actor playing Anakin and a deaged Ewan.
Another version could have done an aged Ewan out on the sands of Tatooine protecting and helping others and Luke like in the kenobi Novel. They could have given us the backstory with Black Krrsantan and Boba hunting him for Jabba the Hutt. Heck this would have been a perfect time to bring Hando into live action even just for a small part. (Yes I know we technically have him on galaxies edge)
Ok I'd love number one just because I read that book series and it was great lol. I think this could've worked, if like you said, they just gave more backstory or tried to do a quieter story.
Great video! I think I definitely felt more positive on the show than you, but with a few caveats: Obi-Wan is probably my favorite "legacy" character in Star Wars, and the 19-year-period between Episodes 3 and 4 is always interesting to me. And naturally, Ewan McGregor playing Obi-Wan again is something I've wanted to see for awhile. Also, my expectations were actually a bit lower because the trailers for the show didn't wow me at all. And I ended up really not caring for Book of Boba Fett.
So, I was pleasantly surprised by aspects of the show. I was excited to get some extended time on Alderaan, and honestly I thought the actress for young Leia was a delight. At the same time though, I agree completely with your frustrations that Star Wars is stuck in these "pocket" time periods for stories that have already been told. I'm with you in Mandalorian and Rogue One (and Star Wars: Visions) being my favorite products under Disney Star Wars (Rogue One might be my favorite Star Wars movie after Empire) because even with their connections, they mostly told stories for characters not connected to the Skywalkers. I'm of the opinion that the Sequel Trilogy (even though I've come around on The Last Jedi in some ways) would have been better off being set generations after the Original Trilogy, following completely new sets of characters (something like "The Ninth Jedi" in Star Wars Visions. But with everything being stuck surrounding characters we know and stories we already know, retroactively adding events just shrinks the universe.
Another thing about a lot of the Disney+ shows (whether Marvel or Star Wars) is that they occasionally look cheap and static, especially noticeable when compared to Stranger Things Season 4 or The Boys. Haha, the more I wrote, the more critical I got. Overall, I still enjoyed the show, but it didn't give itself much reason to exist ultimately. And speaking of fanservice, I don't like when showrunners are aware of "memes" and incorporate them into the show, like with "Hello, there" and others.
Oh man I HATE when Memes are incorporated into shows as well! Something feels just...too self aware about it and it takes me out.
There were parts I liked - actually, I think young leia is a good actress, I just don't like what they did with her plotline - and I actually super appreciate the Owen scenes, I thought he did an amazing job. It's just that overall I feel so dissapointed by the lackluster nature of it - what did we really learn about Obi-Wan during the show and what he was doing during that time?? IDK what I want I guess lol
@@Bookborn Your complaints are completely fair! I do think young Leia overstayed her welcome on the show; as good as the actress was, her role could have been kept to two episodes. Owen's part was great. As more time has passed since the show's finale, I've been leaning more and more into the "That was nice, I guess, but what was the purpose...?" Whereas with the Kenobi novel by John Jackson Miller, I felt like my love and appreciation for the character was reaffirmed, and I got a story that managed to feel like an essential chapter and not just a throwaway "midquel" (and the book managed to be such without forcing another meeting between Vader and Obi-Wan, but rather something like "Unforgiven" on Tatooine). And man, after seeing the two-part Stranger Things Season 4 finale, some of the lackluster technical aspects of the Obi-Wan show stand out that much more.
The media industry is convinced that their customer base is stupid. Unfortunately, they’re becoming more and more correct as time goes on.
I totally agree. There are so many recent movies I've seen where I'm like "wow they really didn't trust their audience to ~get it did they"
It felt like a chore going through the show. So many inconsistencies, and not just towards episode 4, but within the show in itself. And please, can someone explain to me how this Third Sister --who doesn't seem that powerful force-wise--manages to survive a lightsaber gut stab TWICE ?? How is she not the most powerful Jedi in the Universe with that wonderful trick. Guhh.
In the end, the only moment I actually felt something was during the final conversation between Obi-Wan and Leïa. It felt real, not forced, and I wished the show leant more towards that introspective side rather than failed action scenes where no-one seems to understand how to run properly without it looking like a kiddy comedy bit.
It's so sad it hurts a bit.
I mean she survived the lightsaber stab to the gut and randomly had mind reading powers that she decides to...never use again? It was a mess.
One of my best friends is a die hard Star Wars fan, but they don’t want to not like Obi Wan and don’t want to even hear my dissent on this show. Which all the good that they can enjoy the show. But it’s good to see that others recognize how bad this was. This was it for me, I am giving up on Star Wars for a while.
Yeah I never want to take away enjoyment from anyone! If they like the show, great; tbh I'm jealous lol I want to like it. But...I can't ignore the lazy writing
I'm in that camp that enjoyed it but i can't really argue with your point. I've also stopped taking Star Wars seriously so there's that. once you're apathetic, it's easier to just enjoy the silliness and not expect too much
I really really need to let go and get to this point lol
You are completely entitled to your own opinion. But I personally love this series. There are some things Im not a fan of, but I really like the majority of it. But as a Scot, I feel the need to tell you that Ewan Mcgregor's name is pronounced "You-an" Not Ian lmao. But I do agree with some of your points with the rest of Disney Star Wars (Not all, but some) At 5:29 I really dont see how it is way too early for Vader to think that he killed Anakin. 10 years have passed, and if you've ever read the Darth Vader comics, this line really does fit. But where I do partially agree is when you said "they didn't try to make a story" Which is fair. In eps 1-2 okay Leia was kidnapped. Ben had to get over himself and try. Fair start. Then Ep 3 (even tho I loved it) the actual PLOT just led to Leia being captured, then they flew to a planet, escaped from said planet and then Leia is back at Alderaan. I actually liked Leia in this series, I loved everything to do with Anakin and Obi-Wan meeting again (especially after reading the comics) But the plot itself wasn't really anything special. However I really did like the series overall.
What I would like to see in the future of Star Wars is an absence of mouse ears.
Pretty much this. I liked a lot of what the show was doing, but in the end, it was just … fine. It should’ve been great. And it could’ve been. With just a few minor tweaks to exactly what we got it could’ve gone from fine to good, or even really good. However, I would rather have seen a show about Obi-Wan on Tatooine, struggling with the trauma of killing his best friend rather than what we got. I feel like they knew there were a few things they wanted to do (things like have a rematch between Obi-Wan and Vader, which doesn’t really make sense with the canon, but whatever), and so they had to write a story that could lead to that. When in reality, as great as it was to see Hayden back, the way the story was written doesn’t make sense. The Empire has no power on Tatooine (it is controlled by the Hutts), and so the Inquisitors should never have been sent there to begin with. At least not openly. So from the very beginning, they were already contradicting lore that had been set up by George Lucas in his 6 films (as well as Clone Wars that he directly oversaw and signed off on everything for). And there was tons of stuff like that throughout the show.
I enjoyed it enough to continue through the series, but that does not excuse the horrible writing at times, the breaking of canon all over the place, the blatant fan service (some of which, I will admit, worked just fine), the poor character work, and the action sequences that often times that more often than not, didn’t work.
I wish it was better, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by what we got. Great video.
-T
I totally agree about a show that really dug into how Obi-Wan is probably feeling after what went down, and maybe deciding what his new role is in this new world now that Owen doesn't want him to have much to do with Luke (one of the few parts I actually liked about the show, tbh, Owen's performance was great). In fairness I realize that probably would've been too much a risk though - quiet shows like that may not have pleased a lot of fans.
@@Bookborn I’m not even sure that it would have to be a “quiet” show. There’s a (now) Legends novel titled Kenobi that does exactly what I was describing, but is still interesting, fun, exciting, and action filled. He deals with things like the Sandpeople (exploring their culture too), or other issues of living in a desert. And though maybe that specific book shouldn’t be adapted into a series, the idea of it is much closer to what this show should’ve been IMO. 🤷🏼♂️
This was really fun. My opinions are about 180 from yours. But I know (from other content) we share lots of opinions and fandoms. And going in I knew you weren't just here to rant but would have well-thought out reasoning. And you did not disappoint, t's fun to see the other side.
I think your title says it all, as you watched you saw fan service driving the structure and you have a strong aversion to it. I found character arcs super compelling. (what is my family/where do I fit? what does it mean for me to be a jedi as a traumatized hermit? and so on) OK, not Reva though.
My only critique is I don't think it serves your point of view to characterize the production team as "lazy". That itself is a lazy argument because it's pure speculation on your part which begs the question. That aside, great stuff even though in my opinion you are nuts. Which I say with love and respect. :)
See, the questions you listed are things that are interesting that I just don't think were addressed by the show - I could've gone for a way quieter show really focusing on Obi Wan's depression and what does that mean? How does he turn into the Ben we see in Episode 4? how does he deal with that Trauma? For me, the show didn't answer those things, and that's why I'm bummed. But...I'm glad people liked it, never want to take that away from anyone.
As for lazy - I don't know what other word to describe it 🤷♀️ Reva is the highlight of this for me. They don't really try to give her a great motivation, or convincing script, and then think they will just add a show afterwards to fill in the gaps. That reads lazy to me. But yeah, I mean I don't *know*, but we'll never know.
@@Bookborn I hope Taika comes through for you! I may have reacted overly strongly to the "lazy" comment. I see where you are coming from. As a synonym for "not good enough," I get it. As a description of their development work ethic is where my mind went before.
If Disney had been thinking ahead they would have written Mara Jade into the sequel movies or at the very least had Luke meet and lose her before episode 7.(I assume they would have used it as further motivation for Luke to go into seclusion though. Fridging is a terrible trope but I really wanted to see Mara Jade in some capacity.) They could have made a Mara Jade based series which I believe that would have been way more interesting than Obi-Wan.
I assume(there's that word again) they did not have any deals in place to reuse characters from the EU at that time and wanted to get something out to start making their money back. They did eventually bring back Thrawn which is awesome.
It seems like pure writer's rooms don't exist anymore. The rooms are hovered over by corporate executives that have their own bad ideas about how tv shows are supposed to work.
Fun fack, the story was supposed to be more of a western style, where Obi-Wan was torn between protecting Luke and not exposing he was a jedi ultimately ending in him having to let someone innocent die to protect Luke. But Kathleen Kennedy came in saw the script and said that it needed more woman, specifically Liae, and made them re-write it.
I'm not against needing more women in the script but like...couldn't they have just taken a character concept and moved it around a bit. Why make a full new (and completely undeveloped) character... ugh
@@Bookborn honestly I wish I could be a fly on the wall for the conversations so I could actually know their reasonings. I'm a egalitarian at my core, men women I don't care as long as it makes sense. But drawing a conclusion just from what I've seen in interviews and from the shows and movies themselves I think Kathleen Kennedy is motivated by modern feminism and power(the Force is Female shirt is what comes to mind) how else could someone swoop in and fundamentally change the script at the 11th hour and demand Liea be in the story when it makes no sense for her to be so, given A New Hope?
I am an odd duck, I am a HUGE starwars fan who liked the originals AND the prequels.
I've read so many starwars books I've stopped countiung.
I HATE what disney have done to it and it's aweful.
I am an avid prequel defender so I will JOIN YOUR CLUB lol.
Haha I was guna mention Taika Waititi but you beat me to it
Help us Taika Waititi, you're our only hope.
“Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility.”
― Ambrose Bierce
I'd never thought of Cosmere cameos as fan service, but it totally makes sense! (My perception could've just been colored from all the times I've heard BrandoSando talk about how much he personally enjoys fitting them together though)
To me, Kenobi was enjoyable but... unsatisfying, in a way that I couldn't really verbalize before watching this video.
I agree with what you said out about the inconsistencies & existing characters, but I also think that the new (at least to me) characters, Tala and Haja, weren't written interesting storylines either. The show doesn't really do much to make you care about them, it almost feels like the writers were relying on the fact that you already like the two actors from seeing them elsewhere to make their characters work here, and I'm not sure it would've worked with lesser-known actors playing those two
Yeah I wouldn’t say every Cosmere connection is! But I feel like putting Hoid in every book sort of is. All the fans love looking for him outside the SA and so I feel like it’s a small and relevant fan service in the best way.
@@Bookborn I think it helps that Brandon is as much of a fan (of Hoid at least) as the rest of us 😂
Best chase scene all time with Leia in the woods.
It's all because of that slide.
I cannot fault Obi-Wan too much for blasting that fence. He has to contend with finding Leia, scanning the mind of the Dark Side for intelligence, and remembering to speak aloud to the princess, so she doesn't have to keep asking him questions. When he finally realizes he has let a 10 year old girl tell him what to do and finds himself at the mercy of an Imperial toady, even his Jedi training cannot keep him completely cool. He restores my faith in him when he spares Leia the massacre of the troopers in the prison. He could have broken the glass with a deflected blaster bolt on the other side of the doors. But, Leia would have had to watch him gloat slightly, as the men died drowning. Instead, he chooses the light side, senses the approach of the imperial traitor who helps him get into the prison, weakens the glass, holds of the troopers until Leia is out of harms way, and then he closes the trap. Also, I would not put it past the Organas to send Leia into harms way. They know Obi-Wan will likely come to the rescue, and she is clearly force sensitive by this point. The third sister's guard would be completely down during her interrogation. There is no telling what Leia gleaned from her mind. I imagine Breha said something like the following at some point during the conversation with Bail: 'she is going to have to lead the Rebellion at some point Bail. We cannot protect her forever.'
Overall I liked the Obi-Wan show. Yes, it could have been better for all the great points you mentioned. But in the end it was entertaining and worth my time watching. I totally agree with you about Rogue One and The Mandalorian! The best Star Wars "spin offs" by far. I'd add the Clone Wars animation series too.
I haven't done Clone Wars yet (is that disney? For some reason I didn't think it was) but I have never heard a negative thing about it. I really need to get on watching that.
This seems to be another symptom of 21st century writing in film and TV, where writers think stories are just strings of Easter Eggs. Wheel of Time had a huge problem with this, where they did stuff that didn't make sense (from the books or the show itself) but then they explained its significance in the bonus materials. Just crummy writing.
Don't get me started on bonus material being needed to understand the show. WOT stuffed a LOT of magic system stuff in the bonus content and I'm just convinced the regular viewer does not watch that stuff. I wouldn't have even watched it if it wasn't for youtube!
I have mixed feelings on fan service. In some cases I like it when I am catered to as a fan, and it can drive me crazy when a director or writer changes the source material, backstory, or tone of a work to simply be outside of the box. For example, I have been very disappointed in newer Star Trek spinoffs, and I constantly think when the directors choose to go a crazy, edgy, new route with the universe, that it's like, you have a built in fan base, why would you change this story line? I am also a huge Star Wars fan, and was extremely disappointed with the sequels. Oddly, I didn't hate Obi-Wan, but admittedly it may have been for nostalgia...
It's just SUCH a hard line to walk! Ultimately I think it boils down to good story telling. If you are telling a good story, fans will follow it - fan service or not. But making something "good", is obviously very difficult and undefinable.
You should check out Arcane (netflix league of legends show) for fan service done right. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that series.
Agreed. The only good thing about it was seeing Obi Wan and Darth on screen. The overall writing was bad. This proved to me that at best, Disney will muddle along with these characters and stumble into success in spite of themselves.
I absolutely loved episodes 1, 5 & 6. The others were a bit weaker. I disagree that this was only fanservice. It was much better than episode 3. this series was the missing piece between episode 3 and 4. For me the was a huge gap that always bugged me. At the end of episode 3 I in no way thought Anakin had transformed into Vader. Just because they put him in a Vader costume doesn’t make him Vader. This show showed me that missing piece and I loved that.
I recently rewatched A New Hope and I was glad to see that the Obi Wan show mostly enhanced ep. 4 and not took away from it. The Obi Wan Vader fight was so much better and charged with additional emotions. Leia is actually happy to hear about Obi Wan and sad when he dies. And when she said help me Obi Wan Kenobi that moment was so charged with emotions now. Most things that bugged me were inconsistencies with the prequels and not the Obi Wan show. There were two things that bugged me in relation to the show. That she said you served my fathaer in the clonewars was a bit far fetched. And him saying he hasn’t heard the name Obi Wan in a long time was strange. But apart from that I think the show only enhanced Ep. 4.
I thought this was a middle type show. I started out loving it and ended up feeling eeehhh about it. The writing was so wonky. I think the CEO's get in the way of the creatives and it messes up any threads a writer might try and make. They have blueprints of great stories in comics and books, why not use them more??
I mean I couldn't help but love Ewan has obi-wan - I could've stared at him cutting sushi for hours LOL - and I really did like the scene with Owen, I thought it was very well done. But just didn't really go anywhere from there.
I generally do not leave comments, but I have to say, I completely agree with you, which is also very rare. This show has it all, logical inconsistencies, teleporting characters, blatantly contradicting the established canon. And when people voice their opinion, accusing them of racism. I think I‘m done with Star Wars. To think I was exited about the Bane series.
Oooh you didn't even watch Rise of Skywalker after watching the first two? Probably good choice that movie was a mess lollll
@@Bookborn so I‘m told. . .
There was fan service (Vader, Leia, Kenobi, Luke, Qui-gon) but other parts were more minimal than I expected. When we saw the dead jedi, I was expecting to recognize most from clone wars. They also didn't have another jedi show up with the rebels despite saying it's a way to guide jedi to safety. The Mandolorian has many moments of fan service too (Luke, Boka Tan, Asoka, Boba Fett) so it seems a bit weird that one works but not the other. I think it comes to personal preference. Marvel and Avengers movies thrive on you knowing character moments already. The Cosmere requires fan service (Vasher, Kelseir, Hoid, Harmony) to function. Those are obviously intentional but the easter eggs are rewards for readers to find.
In some defense of the show since it worked well for me: I think it would have been hard to give Kenobi have an arc without including Vader in some way. Given that we know the two endpoints for his character, it's hard to make an arc but I'm glad they put effort into that. (I disagreed with parts but it mostly worked) Kenobi probably wouldn't leave Tatooine unless Leia was involved somehow. They could have made a show just about his adventures on Tatooine but I don't think you can get a solid plot from that. If we had to get a Kenobi show (and Disney loves $$$ too much not to), something like this had to include fan-service characters.
So The one part of the show I actually really liked was the whole interaction with Owen about Luke. I thought that was super well done and maybe could've been the catalyst for Obi Wan doing somethign else - maybe helping the other Jedi being hunted or maybe protecting Leia's secret or something (I just think anything involving Leia directly is too difficult based on where we need to be).
Only thing I'd disagree about is that I don't think the Cosmere needs those connections to function. I guess if you mean literally - like there wouldn't be a cosmere without them - I could understand it, but so far Sanderson's stories all work as stand-alone, and I don't think you need those character's past history to understand any of the stories so far.
Hey Disney, why don't you focus on the old republic? Let the Skywalker saga go, Disney. Let the saga GO!!
You even wrote Elsa, Disney! Learn the lesson she teaches!
Ok don't really agree with Kenobi (thought it was ok) but what you say about fanservice is really interesting. Like, fanservice can actually be good (not the anime/manga one you referred that's almost always certainly bad) if it makes sense for the story. Like, I could argue that the ending of Rythm of War for example, what happens with Kaladin, could be considered fanservice. Maybe it's far fetched but Kaladin is by far one of the most loved characters in the Cosmere so having him doing yet another epic moment and saving the day seems like the thing that would please so many fans to at least not consider it to be fanservice. But it is not my objective to criticize it, quite the opposite: the moment is amazing. It gives us great character development and a fantastic moment that fits perfectly with the climax of the series. What I mean is, fanservice isn't inherently bad. Some fans have a really good idea of what the work needs and with a talented writing behind it could be accomplished very nicely.
But of course, that's not always the case, and I think that maybe 80% of the time that fanservice is implemented in a story it doesn't end well. Like, Captain America with Thor's hammer is not a bad moment, far from it, but does it really make sense? Like, after Civil war, after having characters like Tony, Natasha and a lot more, the one that gets to prove he is worthy is Steve? The one that didn't tell Tony what happened to his parents? Idk maybe it's because Captain America has always been a mixed character for me but it felt a bit Unearned. But that moment is not bad. The point is, it can go very bad very quickly, like it Star Vs the forces of evil seasons 3 and 4, where they made a ship canon just to please the fans and it destroyed basically all the story structure and plot of the series. Things like making a ship canon just to please the fans or having a popular characters have epic moments without reason can make a story go down.
And honestly, it's very interesting that you have mentioned Stranger Things. This is a show I love (though I haven't seen season 4 yet) and seasons 1 and 2 were very cool and funny and great. But in season 3 the writers got REALLY accommodating with what they got. The writers realized "oh, they like Dustin and Steve, let's put them together for another season because it's what the fans like" "the fans like Erica!! Let's include her for no reason in the general plot" "the fans like these actors, so let's write some scenes where the personality of the characters are not really present so the fans can see these actors doing things like shopping or going to the movies!!". I just feel that season 3 was really weak. They threw away everything that the fans didn't like about season 2 and put what they did like instead. Not a bad season, not by a long shot, but it made me think that the increase of the show's popularity it's the worst that could have happened to the show itself.
So conclusion to this messy comment? Fanservice isn't inherently bad, but it can really make things bad when done poorly. And the Kenobi show was ok imo
Agreed pretty much everything here - although I'm undecided about the Kaladin moment. I think Sanderson might have already have that planned, so maybe it plays into what fans want, but if it was already planned is it fan-service? Don't have an answer there.
I also thought Season 3 was the weakest of ST, but never consider that fan-service might be a reason! It's hard when a show becomes "Self-aware"; they know what fans love, and how do you internalize that without it affecting how you write things? I have sympathy for that. It must be difficult.
That Kaladin moment is definitely not fan service. Having your main character do a thing they have always done is character consistency. Plus it was one of the original visions Sanderson had for the series. By definition that means it can't be fan service.
@@readbykyle3082 I'm conflicted on that one. Respectfully disagree. I know Sanderson had it planned because I heard him say it in interviews but still it's the third book where Kaladin did a think like that and the book was not his, it was Eshonai's, Venli's and Navani's book. I don't know it just feels very crowd pleaser to me, like it's not that we are starving in epic Kaladin moments and having a popular character have a moment in a book that is not his... Again, even if it was fanservice it doesn't have to be bad, indeed it's an excellent moment, but I feel like im Rythm of War Brandon is very self aware of which characters are the most popular and it's true it is very hard to remain unbiased when you have this kind of information. So idk, maybe it is maybe it isn't, just wanted to use it as an example
How Obi-Wan Kenobi series would have been is we don't need something to take place after Revenge of the Sith we need something is his earlier years before The Phantom Menace we will not be seeing Princess Leia's a little girl neither is the inquisitors it will just be Qui-Gon Jinn training Obi-Wan how and when did Obi-Wan Kenobi meet Qui-Gon Jinn and how he was trained we need to know all about it we don't need this Obi-Wan Kenobi series it's lazy dumb it's obsessive I'm so glad they canceled the Obi-Wan Kenobi movie and they did however got these ideas from the movie stories till reworking Obi-Wan Kenobi series because if the movie was released in the first place and it's not his early years I would not be watching it
Quick counter point: Obi-Wan WAS his master in that last fight. He kicked his butt! Vader played right into Obi-Wan's hand and acted very much like a rookie.
Yeah like I see how that can technically work but having two more fights between the last one and a new hope just doesn’t seem what was referenced. Of all the things that annoyed me, that scene is the one that I can understand the most people liking
@@Bookborn lol yea I was grasping at straws trying to make that scene work. It seems Disney only sees dollar signs and is only interested in fan service. They are deathly afraid to take risks and most of their new IP's are boring.....
Great video and I totally agree. It's really frustrating how Disney has chosen to pump out all this generic fan-servicy content when there are literally hundreds of books they could have drawn material from in the Star Wars universe.
Will you review the Lord of the ring, rings of power?
Planning on it 😊 going to read the Silmarillion to prep (not sure they are pulling from that but figure it can’t hurt)
It is time for something new. It is time to take some risks. It is time for new characters, in a new world, with a new feel and theme. The writing and storytelling was bad but they set themselves up for failure before they even started.
IT's hard to take risks because nobody wants to be in charge of the failure, and I get that. But just dragging this franchise along with the same old thing is killing it too...so I think it would be worth it.
I agree with pretty much everything.
It just feels like in most recent star wars shows not only that there is infinitely more fan service, but that it often acts to replace creativity.
Also can someone tell Disney the star wars galaxy has more than just desert worlds... Like please, I've seen enough Tatooine to last me a lifetime.
In terms of planets featured in Kenobi we got Tatooine (Yes of course it has to appear in a kenobi show but still), a Coruscant clone planet, a continental world where Obi-Wan decided to land in the desert part (Of course he did) and a totally not Kamino inquisitor fortress planet.
And we got 2 so far as I'm aware new sapient species, star-nosed mole guy from episode 3 or 4, and aligator dude from episode 2 I think. When did creativity get replaced with 'hey that animal looks neat, throw it's head on one of our extras and get them in the scene!'
If you look at some pre-Disney take over media like the clone wars show there were a lot of unique worlds, species and cultures, and they all felt perfectly star wars, and that's sadly very rare now.
I love this criticism on the planets because I didn't even think of it. Where are more Naboo or Endor like planets?? Creativity is just lacking
Oh wow. Wow, wow, wow. Wow. Ryan George sure looks different in this pitch meeting
He was having a bad hair day ya know?
@@Bookborn I'm sure he got over it, actually I bet it was super easy, barely an inconvenience
One thing I also can't understand is why Disney seems to neglect the Prequels and seems to think the OT is the only one there is. The OT is fun but tbh planets like Naboo, Felucia, or Coruscant are 1000x more interesting than Tatooine. In addition, especially the PT/OT are famous for intriguing political drama, but these new shows have nothing of it: no tension between clones and stormtroopers, and no corruption/underground rebellion outside the main characters. They also seem to be very character driven so that we see the POV of Kenobi and Reva at the expense of a decent plot, and have no idea how's the world outside of them. Proper plot development and worldbuilding were the main reasons why I'm a huge fan of the AotC.
Considering how widely controversial liking the prequels was back in their time...[I think ]it actually makes perfect sense, in a way, if you really think about it.
I do think there is something to the theory that Disney Star Wars seems to be more character-centric and/or almost more like [visual ]Literary Fiction, in a way, than like plot-centric or typical Genre fiction though. (And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing; but it does certainly make it have different appeal[ or lack thereof] for different persons.)
I literally only watched for the Vader scenes. Any nostalgia was ruined by all the things they did that were just….sad.
But we can hold out eternal hope the next thing will be better 😭
@@Bookborn My expectations are in the gutter....this was a touch better than the first half of the travesty that was The Book of Boba, but only barely.
Have you watched Andor? Sorry if already answered, lots of comments.
I wasn’t watching because I refused to watch any more Star Wars shows… but then everyone said it was soooooo good. So I caved. Only three episodes in and I’m loving it so far. It’s so good!
I've never seen any of the star wars movies or tv shows, but I was very interested while watching this. The extended universes/sequels in franchises these days have gotten ridiculous. The Conjuring movies will always be a prime example of this for me. It's like there's always so much potential, yet writers and executives keep screewing things up for a quick buck instead of putting in any actual effort which would sustain long term success!
Yeah it's very interesting, the whole discussion of art vs money. A lot of shows should've ended earlier on the "art" side - like my example is the US Office - was there really any point in continuing after Steve Carrell left? But because it'll always make money, there's always incentive to keep going
@@Bookborn It's the unforunate state of things, though can anyone of us say we're above it? If I worked my way up to a studio executive I can't say I'd do things differently, though I'll still complain!
I loved all those scenes from the fight with Vader.. when they happened in Rebels.
I disagree. In Rebels, Vader's mask was broken on the right side of his face. In Kenobi, it was broken on the left. Two totally different things.
I stopped watching Obi-Wan about halfway through, although I did watch recaps of the rest of the episodes just to keep up with (unfortunately canon). That said, I am loving Andor. You should definitely check out this show as it's very different from everything else that's been put out by Disney, except for Rogue One of course. It actually has very good character development (some people think it's too slow but I love the nuance) and is very well executed. I'll bet that you would enjoy it, or at the very least appreciate that it's not like any other Star Wars show/movie.
As for the fan service element, I think of smaller elements of fan service as easter eggs and I am okay with that. To me, fan service (besides the anime type) is when the story tellers artificially bring in elements that they think the readers will like even when it doesn't fit the story. A good example of easter eggs is the latest episode of Andor where we see a bunch of antiques, many of which are somewhat obscure references to other Star Wars stories, but if you're not familiar with those stories then you won't even notice them. They make sense to be in the scene because they look like antiques, but they aren't the focus in any way, so they are only noticeable if you are a fan of the stories they are taken from .
I think fan service is a tool like any other writing device. I think it can be used to great effect - I really liked how they used it in Spider NWH because they gave each of the spidermen an arc and a meaningful place in the story. It didn’t quite work in Dr. Strange because it felt hollow.
I like what they set up. I think that's it. Qui-gon coming back: that's what this show should've started with because that is was set up in Episode 3 and the Clone Wars. I wasn't a fan of the final confrontation, although it looks like Disney is finally figuring out Lightsaber and Force User battles. It still looked kinda rough and poorly choreographed, so i guess we're not gonna get the acrobatic fighting styles of the prequels anytime soon, unless Taika does his thing and shakes things up enough.
Little Leia, I think there could be an arc there between her appearance in Kenobi and ep 4, specifically going from "let's change the system" to "screw the system, Rebellion it is" as one of the youngest Senators ever.
Reva: could be good in her own show, I don't think the predictability of her story was a bad thing, but you're right, a little more nuance would've been great.
I'm probably gonna cut off my D+ subscription after Ms Marvel finishes up as well. I was pleasantly surprised at the parts i liked, but only because I expected to be disappointed in the first place, which isn't really a good thing, tbh. About time to hang up the Jedi Robe for the time being.
Better still they should have used Qui-Gon as the catalyst for Obi-Wan to get those rocks off of him rather just a pointless appearance of Qui-Gon roaming around the dessert waiting for Obi-Wan to happen by. There are so many missed opportunities like this during this useless series that never should have happened in the first place. According to Luke's own words in A New Hope, nothing interesting should happened on Tatooine until A New Hope. "Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from."
That's exactly why I stopped watching anything after TLJ, and I'm not even that big of a Star Wars fan. Giving several new TV series and spinoff movies every year is just obvious cash grab - they trying to repeat success of Marvel, but while almost every Marvel movie was greatly received, new Star Wars are just painfully lacking. Huge Star Wars fan base is the only thing that makes this so profitable, good writing is not necessary, when you can just put some recognisable characters from prequels or OT, mention something else, and put 3 minutes of screen time of fan's beloved character in it so they would overlooked all bad writing, and then repeat. That's how you mass produce cinematic universe, and until fans gets sick of it, they will make billions of dollars.
What do you think of Marvel now? Before end-game I pretty much liked every Marvel movie with only a few exceptions. but now it's starting to feel overly drawn out...
@@Bookborn I still did not watch Marvel after Endgame, so it's ahead of me, and can't say much. Yet I see similar trend - focusing more on tv series to cash in - can't tell if they're good or not, I've heard some are really good. But I will say that new Marvel would suffer because it's hard to introduse new universal threat like Thanos, that would involve every character. We have seen and lived through end of the universe, so anything new just seems much less of a deal. And I like good bad guys as "a hero is only as good as his villain"
I didn't watch and have no interest in this series. Anything other than Obi-Wan sitting and meditating or protecting Luke does not seem to fit in the cannon. Like you said, what Vader says in Episode 4 implies they never met between 3 and 4. Revisiting characters from the movies as main characters in shows does not seem to work in my opinion.
Mando - good
Bobba Fett - not good
Obi-Wan- not interested
I think there could've been a way to make Obi-Wan active in something besides just protecting Luke, but it was a very hard needle to thread. And...they did not thread it lol.
Sometimes I wonder if nepotism plays into the hiring of these writers. In other words they hire writers who are connected to family members of executives or others with significant pull at Disney. Maybe that’s why they have don’t need to have any actual writing talent. It’d be interesting to find out. I just don’t feel any passion in the newer shows. It’s all very formulaic and unoriginal. Although The Mandalorian has been good so far.
No idea how they are chosen. Do they choose new talent to save on costs/hope to find new greats? Do they just have writers on hold that they use for everything? Is this not a writer issue at all, but rather a producer or show runner issue? I Just don't know enough about the process...
I think its less about fan service is bad and so much that large amounts of fan service is correlated with poor writing i.e. fan service doesn't cause a bad story but a lot of stories with lots of fan service are bad / badly written potentially because they are relying on the fan service or potentially they just don't know what they are actually doing.
That's very possible for sure. Because there are times I've liked fan service, and maybe it's just because the show is good in itself. Then it just boils down to - focus on good writing, good showrunning, and the rest will follow.
Nice Pitch Meeting opening!
lolol... you've been watching screen rants huh? great channel and good spoof you have
It’s been a while since I watched screen rant but I def took inspo from their format for the beginning lol
That chase scene got me. They could have totally made it believable with the guards showing up earlier. I didn’t get to watch the last episodes yet but I lost interest.
yeah, I liked most of the show (minus the dumb conclusion) but that scene was just jarring and unbelievable.
Some dude here in YT made a solution to the scene, basically cuts the entire chase and just jumps from the confrontation scene with Flea to the scene where the other guys put the sack over her head.
It was that simple.
Your points in your skit are spot on
It's interesting to hear what Beattie had planned for this Kenobi 'movie trilogy' as he conceived of it. After Solo flopped the movie got canned. His version of Reva the inquisitor survived Order 66 and hated the Jedi, blaming them for what happened. And then Obi-Wan told HER that Vader was Anakin, and she saw the mistaken path she had gone down. She told Vader she had killed Kenobi and then he killed her. Makes much more sense than what they made. But he also claimed that part 2 of his trilogy was Obi-Wan learning he had to sacrifice himself, so that it didn't come out of the blue in ANH. And I thought, 'oh, no, dude' - we do NOT need that signposted before ANH. Obi-Wan's sacrifice is very subtle in the foreshadowing ('I'm getting too old for this sort of thing', 'your destiny lies along a different path from mine' etc) and totally what myth is about IMO - how to act, and how we can change and grow.
Ok so I love that entire first part - way better! But yeah the second part isn't great LOL like NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED.
@@Bookborn They wrote this three times over.
Beattie wrote his version. Then they got Amini to write his version, which was 'too bleak', and then Joby Harold obvious reworked bits of both, because both writers have credits for various episodes. And it still sucked!
This may not come as a surprise, but I agree with your overall assessment of fan service and the Obi-Wan Kenobi show in general. Interestingly, as I watched the show from week to week, I could say that I liked it. The fan-service moments felt like good payoff for "head canon." However, this is not sustainable to good storytelling and you support this thesis very well. Rise of Skywalker is a good example: It concluded the Skywalker saga through fan service in a way that left viewers unable to rewatch unless they were hunting easter eggs. I can kind of understand where Star Wars fan service came from though. Prior to Phantom Menace, fans like me who were under ten when the originals came out, had developed a lot of head canon over the clone wars (most often believed to be clones vs mandalorians), where our characters came from, and more. When we watched the movie, we were disappointed to find out that George Lucas was not connecting every character and even the look was very different. All the negative backlash, demonstrating a huge misunderstanding of storytelling and the story GL invested his life into, led to the sale to Disney. Disney, feeling they understood what the audience wanted, fell to fan service with a couple of exceptions that aren't worth mentioning. When Force Awakens came out, we had hopes that we would see the fan service we all wanted - Luke, with Mara Jade, running a new Jedi order (or something along those lines). Instead, we got Episode IV Remake. Last Jedi was an attempt at breaking the mold and was successful among critics, but in my view there were a lot of poor writing choices in that movie that broke where the story could have gone. When you look at Treverrow's treatment of the ninth installment, you see something that would have actually been pretty great with some tweaks. But now I'm rambling and could go on. Point is, fan service doesn't work because bowing to fans doesn't create good stories, it creates stagnancy.
A separate and final note: The TV show Heroes was another example of fan service killing a franchise. Season two was deeply impacted by the writer's strike at that time and ended on a cliffhanger finale. Fans were all over the internet producing theories. The most popular theory did not fit the characters as written, but was used anyway. This put the writers into a corner where they had to resolve the problem without going in a completely new direction with beloved characters. Ultimately, they failed and so did the show and its reboot.
Man I loved the first season of the Heroes but struggled with all the other ones. I didn't realize that there was the backstory!
It's hard. Fans can have great ideas but often don't really know what we want/need in a series. In fairness, I also defend the prequels maybe a little more than I should 😂 I agree about Force Awakens though - great character ideas but seriously a rehash of a New Hope - and then last Jedi tried to do some stuff that I found interesting but ultimately failed, while character assassinating Luke in the process.