Jim Cornette on If Paul Heyman Booked WCW In 1999 Instead Of Vince Russo
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- From Episode 292 of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Guest Artist: George Livanidis ( / georgelivs )
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Not even Paul Heyman could have save WCW; the executives didn't want wrestling on their Network but A invasion angle (written by Paul Heyman) would have been interesting to see.
Well it's always the question if they would still be so against wrestling if it had massive ratings and making profits.
@@Hyde_Hill Oh, they still would be against wrestling but they would put on A face like they care about wrestling while secretly sabotaging it behind the scenes.
The things that made ECW so successful would be destroyed under WCW management. First of all.. they sold out and automatically DoA.
Vince was smart enough to slowly incorporate SOME ECW influence. WCW with in desperation mode would turn it into a farce.
@@Hyde_Hill they had that in 97/98 and hated WCW. And I get it, I love wrestling but it will always be seen as bottom of the barrel.
They didn't want wrestling in 2001. In 99, they wanted wrestling but added a "Family values" clause in the contract with Creative.
WCW would have died anyway. Hogan would say.. "put RVD over? that doesnt work for me brother." And all is in vain.
Yes. The top authority didn't want wrestling.
@@savagedarksider2147 well yeah besides the obvious noose over there neck with Time Warner.
Trying to satisfy Hogan's ego was one of the biggest challenges they had. The Dungeon of Doom angle is his idea of what wrestling should be.
Paul Heyman would say: “book Hogan against New Jack”
@@mrwednesdaynight Hogan's ego hurt them in 1998, but by 2000 he was in the mid-card and feuding competitively with Billy Kidman. And getting many of the best crowd-reactions in mid-2000 (admittedly not saying much). He was a problem, but not the main reason they went under.
it's always great to hear Jim talk about Paul E. You can tell he loves Paul. He worked with him, he respects his mind for the business more or less, he LOVES his promos. Jim just didn't care much for ECW or what it was, but even back then he was willing to work with Paul and do an appearance because he likes Paul. Even to this day, his has more positive to say about Paul E than negative. It's just nice to hear. I'd love for them to do a sit down talk like that Table for 3 thing he did with Bischoff a few years ago.
They're the same guy. Their back stories are eerily similar, just in different locations.
@@natebaxter9551
Bruce Prichard said he told Cornette that he's the Southern version of Paul Heyman & Heyman was the Northern version of Cornette
Plus Heyman is one of the few guys who didn't fire Heyman.
@@dhenderson1810That would've been a great angle.
@@danieldees9686 I meant, Heyman is one of the few who didn't fire Cornette.
After the AOL-Time Warner merger, they were looking for a way to end WCW. This was in 1998, when they were generating more revenue and higher ratings than they ever had, and it literally pissed the execs off that they were successful, because they couldn't justify pulling the plug. They HATED being involved with wrestling, and Ted had lost control of his own company without even realizing it. WCW was Ted's pet project & he loved it. Once Ted lost power, it was only a matter of time no matter how successful the company was.
It always gets overlooked, but it also needs to be said that WCW itself wasn't losing all of that money during its final year. AOL-Time Warner used Hollywood accounting practices to shift debt from other divisions onto WCW's books.
And the execs were friends with Vince. It was literally industrial collusion and espionage.
hogan and EB ruined WCW.
@@StrikeTeam0316 tell us youre a bundle of sticks without telling us youre a bundle of sticks
@@MrSinister718 effffff hogan and the woman who birthed him.
McMahon's WWE missed a huge opportunity with the Invasion because he couldn't stand to book the WCW guys with any kind of respectability. At that point, Vince was still so emotionally wrapped up in the Monday Night Wars that he had to smash them publicly in every way.
He would have had 3-5 years of programming practically written for him, with established stars at his disposal.
This☝
It wasn't just that, it was the fact that the bigger paid talent i.e. Hogan, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg etc all were allowed to sit at home and do nothing whilst still getting paid their contract amounts until Time Warner decided to stop it (Sting said he only chose that option because he knew WWF would fuck up the crow gimmick). HAD they done that at the beginning, we would have seen the nWo a year earlier instead of the crappy WWF version of nWo as well as Goldberg, Sting, Steiner, Luger etc all in WWF.
@@GenGamesUniverse That's part of what I am talking about. If the effort was made to bring in all of the top guys by renegotiating contracts and planned creative, it could have been so much better. Sure, some of the big names still would have sat it out, but don't tell me that they couldn't have made it work with most of them if they wanted to have a really huge story where the main eventers from both companies had legitimate respect on their names.
@@GenGamesUniverse I doubt you would have seen Luger come back in any capacity. Vince was probably still sore about him defecting back in 1995.
@@evrbodywell that's one positive
Having Raven get his win back against Tommy would have been so cool to see on WCW if this happened. The What Ifs in wrestling never ceases to amaze me.
Either way, i really miss WCW
As someone who watched to the bitter end, I agree. As bad as WCW could get at times, at least you had more variety than today.
I don't.
I agree. WCW, even in its dying days, was a big blessing compared to any of the s*** we see today.
I really miss ECW
Wcw was always better than wwe
I love these hypothetical/what if scenarios but i also hate them because sometimes it makes you yearn for something that never came to fruition.
@@James-if3kc or Undertaker
The biggest problem was the over spending on contracts and all the money disappearing. A TB Employee audited WCWs books and discovered they had contracts being paid out ot wrestlers who never stepped foot in the ring or showed up on TV. These contacts weren't high but paying a guy 100k+ to sit at home let alone a few dozen of them made no sense. They also had guys who were travelling on the companies dime but not to WCW Shows. The books were a mess and the auditor reportedly told his boss he wanted to be nowhere near WCW as he felt it was a matter of time before someone ended up in jail.
Outside of financials Hogan had creative power over how he was used and most of the vets had been driven into the ground. To many guys like Hall and Nash were routinely burying opponents making midcarders look to weak. Turning it around without those guys willing to make others look good or a guarantee for stronger booking would of been near impossible.
Don't let the Cornette fans read this, it's too logical, they prefer to blame Russo for everything.
Yep, this is so true. Eric was literally handed "Uncle Ted's" checkbook and thought he had unlimited amounts of money to poach talent from the WWF to WCW like Nash, Hall, Vicious, Hogan, Luger etc. When you look at how much they were making, it was ridiculous amounts.
Even people like Jericho and Kanyon said that when they went into a meeting with Bischoff, Eric literally said "Give me a figure!" and when they gave him a figure of what they thought was reasonable, Bischoff went "Hmm...that's not what I was going to pay you" and then gave them more money than what they were asking. Hell, Jericho's dad turned around and said "Be careful, it's not the amount of money you're making, it's how happy you are in your job!" and Jericho realized that a few years later when the shit with Goldberg went down (where Goldberg bitched and complained to Hogan and Hogan got the whole program with Jericho/Goldberg canned).
@@James-if3kc Well it was a strategy. You see Eric got guys singing his praises calling up everyone under the moon about jumping to WCW. Guys who wouldn't give Eric the time of day started coming in for meetings. The problem was he ignored the WCW guard who made a name for themselves away from the WWE. Guys like Foley and Vader found renewal offers lower while watching guys like Beefcake come in making what had previously been main event level money.
@Weenie Beanie a Russo apologist simp has no room to lecture anybody on logic.
@@TOFTS77 Yep, he fired Jericho, Austin and Waltman over the phone too.
Paul wouldn't have survived the Turner executives who just didn't want wrestling on their channels anymore, the most you could hope for if he had been in charge of WCW in '99 is that he'd just book better TV for the company's remaining time than Russo did. But who knows, perhaps it would have helped facilitate Bischoff's attempted buyout if the product still looked remotely competitive by mid-2001.
I seem to recall a JJ Dillon interview talking about Bischoff's buyout attempt:
Dillon: "Look at the books" (to one of Eric's backers)
*Deal talk stops*
I don't think the Justice League could have saved WCW at this point.
Nope they'd let it crash and burn like it did
@@James-if3kc 😅😅😅
Lol, Batman would preptimed all over the WWF
@@jeffrobagman2834 Batman could get them a TV deal at least.
I kind of wish Vince McMahon kept WCW Nitro and did a proper invasion angle that lasted a couple of years.
He couldn't afford the major contracts they were on AOL some accepted a buy out. Goldberg Ric Flair and Sting no shade on Sting stayed home. so Vince was handed less known wrestlers along with everything else. Booker T and DDP accepted a buy out to join the WWE everyone else stayed home until the money ran out. Rey Mysterio was told enjoy the AOL contract at home and we'll talk to you after it's finished. The invasion angle wasnt all it was cracked up to be.
@@sc30002001 - "Big Sexy/Lazy" Kevin Nash decided to stay home too.
@sc30002001 you give them the money guaranteed and some on top of that to come back. Its not brain surgery.
I feel like Jesus could've taken the book and Hogan, Nash, Goldberg, Steiner would all still be problems.
YEP. The creative control contracts is what REALLY killed WCW.
That doesn't work for me, savior.
I wouldn't throw Goldberg in that group, he was just getting bad advice from the other people you mentioned, and because he was still as green as RVD's stash he didn't know any better.
Also, IIRC Steiner never had any creative control in his contract, it was just that everyone was terrified of him and let him do whatever.
Hogan was the worst by far. He really should have known better for all his time in the business. Goldberg had been convinced his unbeaten streak was more important than it was but he was green and could have learned better (I think) and the others would still put people over from time to time to keep it interesting.
@The_Great_Hambino terrified of Steiner? But he always seemed so calm, detached and purehearted.
The only way to save it was if the AOL/Time Warner merger didnt happen.
Thats literally what killed it.
And not lose tens of millions of dollars a year. 😂
This. AOL Time Warner saw WCW as a Loss Leader and decided to pull the plug.
Heyman would have refused to be WCW head booker. In a 1999 interview, Heyman said that even if WCW had had 15 consecutive great Nitros, they would still trail WWF because the WCW product had become so toxic BEFORE Russo joined the company.
Dude was in bed with the WWF
@@thecaliforniabruh1158 Of course. It's not a "random" act of kindness for Vince to feature ECW in 90s Raw.
Do you know where I can find that Heyman interview?
And he would have still taken the job.
Exactly. That's why they were so desperate to HIRE Russo and Ferara. The ship was already sinking pre Russo WCW.
People still think that WCW went out of business because of quality. AOL/TimeWarner didn't want wrestling despite WCW was the highest-rated programming on TNT and TBS.
*Babbling nonsense. This is a B.S narrative pushed by Maggot Bischoff, hack Guy Evans and other ignorant buffoons. If WCW was making the huge profit in 99/00 that it was making circa 1996-1998 AOL/TW would've wanted to keep WCW.*
The quality was never there for WCW. But when you have finishes and commentators that shouldn't be commentating and not knowing what's going on, also changing ending of matches on the fly, it just made the viewer not care about it anymore, I was one of those viewers.
I would've been down for that WCW Nitro/ECW Thunder scenario.
Down...just like the ratings and ticket sales woulda been.
ECW on TNT. Fits together like a hippo in a birdcage.
WCW would be doomed anyway due to AOL Time Warner doing budget cuts
That merger really doomed the entire Turner enterprise. It was a disaster on so many levels.
*Nothing to do with the merger. It was solely due to the fact WCW had become a money-pit, losing $15 million in 1999 under Maggot Bischoff and then losing $62 million in 2000. If WCW was turning a profit, they'd have kept WCW.*
@Matthew Singh-Dosanjh They weren't even being paid by Tuner for thunder. Making a weekly prime time show can't be done for free without losing millions.
Yep. AOL/TW was a disaster all the way around.
@@MattSingh1 There's also the fact that WCW appealed to a demographic that TNT wasn't interested in. Not only was WCW a money pit, even if it was still making a profit, it just didn't fit TNT's core demo. Without Turner, AOL Time Warner saw WCW not as a company, but as a TV show. A TV show that didn't fit their target demographic. So they just cut it.
The Death of WCW and Nitro are the most definitive books on rise and fall of WCW. Both books are must haves for wrestling fans in my humble opinion.
If Heyman was producing WCW, he would’ve phased out a lot of the older stars and revolve the shows around the younger talent.
That would had been a good thing
If you like fiction!
Russo tried to lessen the roles of Hogan, Flair, Piper etc, and push younger talent.
That's a big part of why he was removed after 3 months, despite business going up across the board.
He also didn't do himself any favors arguing over who was paid what. Basically, Time Warner logic was "If one guy is getting a million a year, and another guy is getting 300K a year, then push the guy who's getting the million".
Russo said he had nothing to do with how much anyone was getting paid.
It's a mark book written by those who have never worked in the business. It's been debunked into oblivion.
Wrong. Death of WCW is mostly a fictional tale full of made up lies and nonsense, like the Rick Steiner story and the Newspaper ad. It's a horrible book and it's sad to see that so many marks still take it as gospel.
My take: WWF was too hot, and WCW was losing too much money for Heyman to save the company. WCW in 99-00 would be much more fondly remembered, but the higher ups at Turner would have still cancelled it due to it bleeding money.
WCW in 99-00 would be like the Sega Dreamcast of wrestling then. Fondly remembered but the mistakes the company made years earlier killed it.
Yeah the AOL-Time Warner merger would've killed it anyway. Otherwise, it could've existed as real cheap programming once a lot of the huge contracts would've expired.
Considering how he bankrupted ECW, he probably would've made WCW go even deeper than it did
@@InvisibleHotdog he wouldnt have control over a budget; pretty sure russo didnt.
Heyman could have saved money by not paying WCW's wrestlers lol
WCW still would’ve died but no one would’ve been paid.
The obvious solution to save WCW at that point was to end the Monday night war by changing times slots. WCW starts after WWF finishes or ends when WWF Starts. I don't see why it had to be a fight to the death.
Eric was also under the impression that the budget deal he got approved the year prior to the merger was still in effect only to find out the budget got cut in half along with after Turner got removed from power it was basically over for WCW because only Ted wanted wrestling on Turner Broadcasting but also when Eric came back he wasn't in a corporate role let alone in charge of creative
By 1999, it was clear that WCW had hit the iceberg (long before Russo came in and made it worse) so Heyman being the head writer wouldn’t save the company.
Paul did an interview talking about booking Smackdown with Rey, Edge, Eddie & Chavo, Angle & Benoit, how he had 3 tag teams playing off each other AND individually. It was really interesting.
Can you imagine Paul with a billion dollar check book? If he made a presentable show with just his dad’s check book he would’ve done wonders with Ted Turner’s money.
He would blow through the money in record time. When it comes to business sense, Heyman is just as bad as Bankrupt Bischoff is.
The big problem with all of this hypothetical is how would Paul be able to book 10 hours of Television every single week? Kevin Nash is on record that Nitro going to three hours and the addition of Thunder to the mix made booking ten times more difficult because you had to book weeks in advance and if one slight thing goes wrong, the whole ten hours of TV goes to hell. Paul would get creative burn out from an environment like that. That's not even getting into the meddling from corporate management coming in and demanding that the product needed to go back to PG when WWF was going hard into TV-14 due to all of sex and violence Vince was pumping out with the attitude era. On top of that, according to the book Nitro, many executives from Turner at the time have since said that money assets were getting shuffled around post Time Warner merger to make all their properties look profitable. The place they stole money from the most to bolster the others was WCW.
I agree with Last that cutting costs at WCW before the merger would have been helpful. But even with that WCW's future would have been uncertain after the merger, simply because the merged company not only wanted nothing to do with wresting, they wanted nothing to do with sports period. They unloaded the Atlanta Braves and Atlanta Hawks as fast as they could after the merger as well. It could have been interesting to see who would have lined up to buy WCW in alright financial shape though.
DOUBLE J JEFF JARRET REF BUMP GUITAR SHOT STROKE
That was a pretty damn good question. Surprised nobody thought of it sooner.
I don’t watch wrestling anymore, not for about a decade but I’ll listen to this
People don't realize that, in a large sense, WCW and WWF audiences were totally different. That's why WCW's audience went away after 2001. They wouldn't have cared about Taz or Mike Awesome or the Blue Meanie. Plus, the death of WCW was really because the executives didn't want it around.
I get what you're saying. I love wcw but I woulda been really interested in ecw joining the fray
@@kevinwagner7333 Yeah, it would have been interesting for fans like us, for sure. But I don't think it would have had a wide appeal at that time for a Southeast audience.
They weren’t drastically different
100% agree. I wanted absolutely nothing to do with anything related to ECW. Hated when they came into WCW, hated it even more when they came to WWF and why I quit watching all together.
The executives was trying to get WCW off of their networks long before 2001.
The smartest thing Piper ever did was not lay down for hogan
According to Bryan Alvarez, there were more than 300 people on contract for WCW in 1998 and 1999... you just didn't see them all on TV.
Long debunked that it was 300. Bryan Alvarez hates WCW with a passion, hence why he wrote Death of WCW which is full of lies and made up nonsense.
No doubt they were all members of the NWO, too
I don't think in 1999 anyone would've thought of a roster split or having 2 brands. That was a Vince idea. I'd imagine they'd just shut down ECW and let go of the under card guys and keep the upper card guys.
The idea of the nWo was always to give them a show. Vince pinched it from WCW. Bischoff should have acted on this when he was forced to debut Thunder. The stage was set for it. nWo had failed to win Nitro from WCW (Bischoff v. Zbysko), and Hogan and Sting were at an impasse as to who is the champ. It would have been the perfect and logical next step after Starrcade.
He'd still have been stuck with Hogan. You can say he was still a big draw but his refusal to ever put anyone over was already screwing everything up. A heel that _never_ loses makes good booking impossible.
Like roman reigns
For many years, Hogan benefited from not being on television every week. In the WWF, Hogan might appear once a month on television, and not necessarily to wrestle. From 1998 on, it seemed like Hogan was on television every week. People got tired of him. And his deal with Turner was a loser for WCW.
@@EwanCumia EVERYONE HATED Hollywood Hogan in 1998. Everybody did.
I think Paul would've definitely made the TV more interesting in the short run. He would've done well with the WCW midcard and elevate some guys while keeping the top stars relevant.
Even if WCW was still going under in 2001, I think Paul would've made 2000 better than what it was and the company may have had a higher value that Vince may not have been able to purchase.
You are talking about the same Paul Heyman that booked ECW?
Or is there another Paul Heyman I'm unfamiliar with?
Time/Warner AOL couldn't wait to get wrestling off their networks.Between that and some of the talent had creative control which would doom WCW no matter who ran it.
They were happy to let TNT be nothing but Law and Order reruns as crazy as that seems to any television viewers. They destroyed everything Ted built so they could execute their brilliant plan of Law and Order reruns.
If Paul Heyman started booking WCW in 1999 Nitro and Thunder would’ve been a 1,000 times better. The product would’ve been in direct competition with the Attitude Era. But, with so much damage done financially and the merger of Time Warner,Inc. and Turner Broadcasting Heyman as Creative Director could’ve probably been too little too late unfortunately.
I can see Raven beating up all members of the flock except Saturn. Raven fires all the other members and says there is a new darkness in the horizon and each week brings out a new member which ends up being the ECW roster but pushed very strong like how the NWO started.
It is kind of weird how Russo tends to get all the blame for the collapse of WCW when in reality Bischoff had already spent the company into a point of no return. Did Russo's booking suck? Yes. Would anyone else have been able to come in and book a wrestling program with ratings high enough to justify the budget that Bischoff had created? Doubtful. I get that Russo wasn't helping to right the ship, but he also wasn't the one who put it on a crash course with an iceberg either. I think Jim is 100% correct. Without some higher level exec stepping in, and getting the budget under control no amount of booking would have saved the company.
Fact is, before Russo came in, the main event scene contained Hogan, Macho Man, Roddy Piper, Nash, Hall, Sting, Sid and Goldberg.
When Russo came in, guys like Jeff Jarrett, Booker T and Scott Steiner were main eventing, so the card was fresher and guys were getting opportunities, rather than same old, same old.
Russo is just not liked because he is abrasive and outspoken. If he kissed ass, he would be given more credit. But just because people don't like him, it doesn't take away from what he achieved.
I really enjoyed the "Higher Powers" storyline. The *Millionaires Club v New Blood" storyline was no worse than the "Invasion" in WWE.
Plus, Russo was head writer for RAW in 1998, during its most prosperous years.
I think Russo is remembered exactly as he should be: a sub-par 'writer' that was in the right place, at the right time. Yes, he contributed to the Attitude Era but exactly how much of its success can be attributed directly to him? And how much to McMahon? Or the apparatus around WWF, at the time?
We've seen his work outside of WWE and it just doesn't hold up.
With that being said, without higher exec intervention, WCW was doomed. Russo's booking didn't help.
Yeah, true. The way I like to put it is that WCW was already in the toilet, Russo just flushed it. Outside of Tony Khan I can't think of anyone else in wrestling that could have done worse than Russo though. You might not be able to blame him for the over-spending but you can definitely blame him for the buyrates falling off a cliff, they were down around 50k in the summer of 2000.
@@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma Dixie Carter says "Hold my beer".
Jim Herd did the dirty work of putting WCW into a coma. Shitstain just pulled the plug.
Not even Paul heyman could've saved WCW lol
Sorry to say Ben even if Tony "the Kid's" millions couldn't save WCW 😢
@@williammitchell4417 LMAO Good One
He would’ve asked for 30% ownership of the WCW brand like he did to Dixie
Dixie should have taken that offer.
Honestly that would be good to have ECW as a developmental promotion like NXT also PH could have transformed the power plant Into a real pro wrestling school or dojo.
The main issue always at TBS was, the suits there didn't want Wraslin' on the network to begin with. Turner kept it going while he was in charge but once he lost his power, and the abuse of all the money by WCW top guys didn't help to make things better either, time for Wraslin' on TNT was over.
I don’t think an invasion really works considering most of the mid 90s was spent on the nWo invasion angle.
I really hope Jim gets a chance to have a public conversation with Paul Heyman before he retires from podcasting. That would be so damn fascinating to hear.
I'd like to see Cornette have a face-to-face meeting with Russo.
Alot of WCW fans didn't watch ecw because a lot of us didn't have access to it. So idk. Would have been cool to see as a what if.
"99 Heyman in his treanch coat" LOL😂😂
The only reason WCW stayed profitable in 1998 was Goldberg. Every other storyline went to shit, and made no sense. Much of the talent was getting buried by Hogan and Nash. Even Bret Hart couldn't save things. And the merger with Turner losing his power was the end.
The sole reason WCW pulled a profit in 1998 was because Bischoff shifted most expenses onto the books of the next years. Hence why they lost nearly 10 million in 1999 and 64 million in 2000. He even admitted that on his own podcast. Bankrupt Bischoff has no business mind at all, he is completely inept at running anything, hence why he bankrupted every other business he ever started and himself twice.
Heyman would have done a better job than Russo; that's for sure.
Heyman hated WCW management, they hated Heyman! There's no way 😂
True, Heyman hated WCW as much as Corny dispised Herd!!
@@williammitchell4417 they both hated Herd. Paul's problem was that Flair didn't like him.
The artwork for this is absolutely hilarious great question too
Jim Cornette and Paul Heyman are polar opposites. Cornette was about the old school style good guy vs bad guy while Heyman was about the antiestablishment/hardcore style anti hero guy vs neutral guy. Both were business minded in their own right despite failing financially.
The joke inside the WCW office for years: jobs were safe as long as Ted Turner was around to cut the checks. In the end....it was always a correct assessment of the company.
With Paul's ability to make people most of the main eventers would have hated him more than they did Russo
Mate, that's not why he was called ATM Eric...
This is like fantasy booking inception
WCW didn't fail horribly overall. 2000 WCW I think had more money and better ratings than AEW now, and maybe WWE now. Time Warner wanted it gone period.
My headcanon is Jim and Vince actually get along very well in private and they’re working us
It was too late in '99. Russo destroyed the ratings but WCW died because of the AOL merger and not selling to EB.
Once Ted was out of power after the merger WCW was dead. Budget cuts or not... they did not want wrestling on their channels. Ted was the only person that wanted wrestling on TV.
I would have loved to seen Mike Awesome be his ECW version in WCW.
Kevin Nash's perspective on the fall of WCW imo is the most accurate. Spoiler: The cooperate management after the AOL Time Warner merger had no interest in having a wrestling company in their portfolio.
Biggest problem at the end of WCW was the number of massive guaranteed contracts and the amount of wrestlers that had “creative control” in their contracts.
AEW hasn’t learnt from history
Nothing would have been different. WCW was going down quick.
I don't think
Time Warner would have allowed the Dudleyz to put folks through tables.
They allowed Public Enemy to do it.
@@Myndir And how are Rocco Rock and Johnny Grunge? No, Time wouldn't allow any of it.
I remember they did the "Millionaire's Club" angle in WCW towards the end where you had Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair and Macho Man Randy Savage and some other old hand legends of the wrestling business going up against the young lions of the wrestling business to see who would rule WCW.
That angle stunk because, for the most part, the young lions were guys that nobody gave a shit about and the "Millionaire's Club" was full of guys people more or less thought of as has beens of that era.
But I could see where an ECW invasion where the ECW guys were comming in (led by Paul Haymen) to essentially run guys like Flair and Hogan and Savage and Lex Luger and Sting out of wrestling for good and those guys defending their territory against ECW could have been interesting. And then you take the guys like Booker T and DDP and Goldberg and Kevin Nash and Scott Steiner who would have been free agents who's loyalties could have gone either way or they just stayed free agents.
I don't know if that would have saved WCW but it would have been way more interesting than anything WCW was actually doing at the time. WCW just got SO BAD in that last 6 months to year. It just became more and more unwatchable as time went on.
Eric Bishoff said himself the executives at Turner network took power from Ted Turner and didn't want wrestling. They cut his budget and doubled the expectation. That killed WCW.
It's interesting that WWE was paying Paul under the table at that time. I wonder if they could have even talked to Paul about it.
Paul heyman predicted in 1995 nitro will lose monday night wars plus he knows how toxic that place is he would never go to be head booker
Rvd vs Buff bagwell
Buff has the stuff!
@@Speedyreedy1218 it appears to be sitting atop his bald head.
@@kazman_6899 You made Russo's "Judy Bagwell on a forklift match" pop in my head.
Tbs didn't want wrestling on their station no more that's why they made it difficult for Eric Bisshoff to buy
I don't think that's true cuz they pushed for them to create WCW Thunder in order to sell ad space.
@@Marc_Araujothat's over 3 years apart, mark.
Considering Russo was just a small reason wcw failed, I dont think heyman instead of russo would've made much of a difference in the long run. Turner's standards and practices plus creative controlled contracts, he wouldn't have been able to do things that made ecw popular.
If Paul Heyman was brought into WCW in 1999 under the scenario described in the video, to me, it sounded like Heyman would have bought WCW an extra year maybe two at best.
Can you imagine Meng (Haku) in a hardcore match against a glutton for punishment like Sabu? There would be nothing left of Sabu but a pair of shiny baggy pants with some red goo.
Would have been an awesome match
I definitely think the booking of WCW would've been far better if Heyman was there but there's no way that Heyman could've outright saved WCW.
WCW's issues went way beyond bad booking.
This never would’ve happened: TNT already had ridiculous restrictions on nearly every aspect of WCW. Kevin Nash said they couldn’t even have a booking meeting without a standards & practice representative sitting in with them. So no way would they A. Buy a promotion as violent as ECW or B. Allow its booker free reign over their TV. We need to remember that TNT executives wanted WCW to fail so they could get wrestling off the network for good.
They ended up not needing it to fail once they got Ted out the way. If we could actual have good accounting I would bet any money lost by wcw wasn't due to wcw. Reducing Eric's budget and telling him to fund thunder out of the nitro budget didn't help.
Sure, you can fantasy book a great WCW. But what you gonna do when you want Hogan to drop a match and he points at his creative control clause? Or Hall. Or Nash. Or Goldberg. Or Sting. No one could have gotten all these people to play nice and do what is best for business. That's one of the things that did in WCW.
There would have never been a WCW Nitro and ECW Thunder. Turner wouldn't allow that product on their network. Do people not remember Sabu's brief run in the late 90s-early 2000s? Sandman...excuse me, Hak?
The problem is the AoL time warner exec's had already decided they did not want wrestling anymore. And raided all the funding to other departments. Which legally they could
I'm thinking if this scenario plays out. Bischoffs purchase goes through, they get a cable deal but the brand is in better shape.
The issue with WCW at the end was no one could save it when its own owners were destroying it from the inside out, they didn't want wrestling on tv or in the portfolio's they didn't care how much money it made they wanted it gone, so i repeat NO ONE could have saved it.
Imagine Taz comes to WCW and goes on a squash winning streak ala Goldberg. A showdown between the two would've drawn huge.
The Dudley's vs the Outsiders would have been amazing.
Then add in RVD to the midcard with guys like Benoit, Eddie, etc.
1. Wcw wouldn't bother buying ECW(they probably could've had AWA too).
2. Ecw was mostly Heyman giving a middle finger to WCW after his firing/lawsuit settlement.
3. Going to wcw wouldve killed his relationship to wwf.
4. The aol time warner merger still likely wouldve happened.
5. Probably wouldve had some version of the new breed anyway.
6. Heyman likely wouldnt be able or allowed to negotiate contracts.
Anything Paul could do to solve their issues would have been stopped by "creative control, brother"
I wasn’t a heyman fan but I’ll admit he was a maestro on the mic
Once WCW gave Hulk creative control the writing was on the wall. Nothing could’ve saved them.
As fun as it is to think about Paul booking WCW, that doesn't stop the AOL/Time Warner merger
The thing is while some Turner executives didn't want WCW the merger with time Warner brought in more executives that didn't want it. Folks always forget about the 1996 merger. Wcw was going to be gone no matter. The AOL deal just accelerated it, because that hurt Ted and caused his networth to drop 7 billion.
@Scrappy Ted also lost most of his executive power after the merger. Even if he wanted to keep WCW he wouldn't be able to stop Jamie Kellner from taking it off the air and the AOL people from selling it to Vince.
Nothing was gonna save WCW. The Time Warner/AOL execs didn’t want wrestling on their network. They tanked it on purpose.
Honestly the only realistic way I see WCW being around today is if the WWF rebranded to WCW instead of WWE during the Invasion period.
Makes ya wonder how it would have gone down had Heyman and Russo been the ones working together
We would have had better wrestling under Heyman, but an invasion angle wouldn't make sense. The WCW crowd wouldn't have cared for the ECW guys, most fans probably thought that ECW was some sort of Chinese rip off of BMW
If this is before March of 99 he would have kept Jericho as well , Paul would have a stacked roster
The underlying problem with WCW in '99 is that there weren't a lot of up and coming stars to build alongside any incoming ECW talent for Heyman to work with, so in the short term, Heyman would still have been dealing with the Nash's, Hall's, Hogan's, Bret Hart's, Ric Flair's, Macho Man's, Luger's, Sting's, etc that had been largely smashed over for the last 2.5-3 years. Goldberg, Booker T, DDP, Chris Benoit, Jeff Jarrett and maybe a few others would comprise that list, so I am not entirely sure Heyman replacing Russo in the hypothetical, solves WCW's problems. Sure, it solves the problems Vince Russo would go on to create, but that is very different than saying that simply bringing in Heyman in '99 would have course-corrected WCW long term, because there were a lot of underlying issues in WCW.
I love stories like these!
You guys have great artists on your roster! What a great picture here! Keep up the good work!
Raw and nitro was two different types of wrestling
It wouldn't have mattered. Paul Heyman would have been pretty much in the same situation. Vince Russo regardless if they booked it or not, that company was going to go downhill no matter what. Too many politics. Too much going on above their heads. The company would have been done over regardless. It was inevitable.
Here's a few things you gotta do BEFORE you hire Heyman in this alternate universe:
1) Put Eric Biscoff in charge as the counterpart to Vince McMahon and ensure that he is running things. You had an established chairman with WWF, make Biscoff that but the antithesis of McMahon and establish that early, Biscoff makes the final ruling. No inmates running the joint here
2) No creative control in ANYONE'S contract and if they no show due to not agreeing with said proposal or because their egos are hurt. They're fined 85% of their paycheck
3) Let the younger talent that is establishing or already established themselves get over as well as the legends. Not every fan wants to see Hulk Hogan win the WCW championship every other night
So with all those established points between 1994 to around 1998, if, at that point, WCW buys out Paul Heyman's business and hires him, I think, in this alternate reality, yes, WCW has a fighting chance against WWF and may even win the Monday Night War
That said, if WCW did everything the same except hire Paul and not fuckhead, they'd still go out of business, but with better storylines, purely cause of AOL Timewarner