The Problem With The Flash Family - Explained
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2023
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AI Generated Description!
In this video, we're going to talk about the problems with the Flash family of technologies. We'll cover the different problems with Flash, how they manifest, and some solutions.
If you're using Flash in your website or application, be sure to watch this video! It will help you understand the problems with Flash and find solutions that will keep you safe. 
Развлечения
Clarifications On Mistakes.
I make these videos using personal knowledge and personal opinions. I generally have notes and reread a few quick things before hand. But to keep them truly organic sometimes I make mistakes and need to own up to them.
Geoff Johns did not invent the Speed Force. I know this, I've read Waids run. But what I did mean is Geoff Johns created the Speed Force as we know it. Most of the things that carried over into the show and how its handled today came out of Geoff Johns run as he wanted to expand upon this big mystery Mark Waid started.
Max, Jessie and Johnny outside of Max's relationship to Bart, I dont know well. I've never found them too interesting which is why when I was trying to naem them in a hurry I basically skipped Johnny Quick lol. But thats why I left them alone for most of the video and didnt really go into much of them.
Sorry for any confusion I caused!
that's okay man we all make mistakes.
Love these rants Benny and you're so on top point with all your rants! I love all the hard work you put into them thanks for the content man!
If I remember correctly they also killed off poison ivy
@@romgamersly1380 she’s back
@@alexbenitez7399 I know she's back I'm just pointing that out cuz technically in the comic her dying was one of the major plot
*Fun fact:* Shortly after the death of Barry, Marvel released a comic in which various superheroes, in a race through space and time to see who is the fastest, encounter an amnesiac man with blond hair and a red loincloth who only think about running fast. That mysterious man easily beats the participants in the race. Considering that the mysterious runner is from another reality and also that he says that his name is somehow related to a "buried alien", I think it's pretty obvious who he really is.
*Buried Alien*
Can't remember his name but "something like buried alien' is what he recalls.
He says he can’t remember his name and that it something or sounds like Buried Alien and that was after winning by a long shot
They tribute him
That sounds awesome.
The flash family works in things like the current one minute war story, use their similar abilities but they have different strengths. The batfamily is diverse with a number of different backgrounds. The flash and superman families are just others with the same powers.
That’s exactly the same as the batfamily
@@alexbenitez7399 not really all the robins for years have different personalities, strengths,weapons,and different relationships with each other, and batman while the the other 2 families don't have, or have had nearly enough interpersonal drama with each other
@@silentpresence6705
You can just have The Flash Family all being different in terms of their skill knowledge and personality, like you said about the Robins.
- Wally's the Fastest Speedster, being that he's the Speedster equivalent of pumping iron at the Gym. It'll be a focus on Raw Power.
- They can make Barry the most creative Speedster, being that he's Faster than others due to his experience with Speed, but he uses his knowledge of science to do creative stunts with his Speed.
- Bart can easily be a Tech Savvy Speedster, being born with Speed allows him to be faster than Avery and Wallace. Due to his knowledge from Future Tech, he can bring in Future Tools that'll help him.
I mean, it can't be that hard! Jesse Quick has Superhuman Strength and Speed, while also being capable to Fly. She also went to college for Business Management.
Another Example: it also makes sense that Eobard Thawne is knowledgeable in History Considering he worked at a History Museum and learned of everyone from the past. Allowing him to be better at Time Travel.
So Eobard vs Barry would be History vs Science.
Actually:
- Wally is the creative one+raw speed, he is proud, impatient, complains a lot, and before he met Linda he was pretty irresponsible, but he is also the jokester, fun loving type that enjoys his powers,
- Barry is the tech one+precise science based speed skills, humble, brave, patient, "boring Flash facts guy",
- Bart (as Impulse) is pure instinct and reckless/naive in nature, while he can learn stuff in speed mode and remember it afterwards unlike other speedsters, he actually has little interest in science and would prefer to play games all day,
- Jay is calm and wise type, he cares for others and while he can serve his juniors with his experience, he also is open to learning from them. He's the dad of the group,
- Max, while similar to Jay in the "can give advice about speed stuff" regard, unlike him, is not as warm. In general he's a loner. He gives some tough love, and can be very awkward at times (especially with his daughter). This stems from the fact that he time traveled a few times and doesn't know when he will do that again. In Dragon Ball terms, he's the Piccolo of the group.
- Irey and Jai are a bit underdeveloped yet, but they are slowly getting more personality, with Irey being more adventurous of the two, while Jai... Is more of a dreamer I think? Maybe an introvert too, we'll see. They love each other and will defend their sibling when there's a need for that, but are otherwise always at odds.
As you can see, they are just as different as Robins are, lol.
The issue is they barely use the Legacies unique powers Bart has speed clones,Jai has super strength and Ace used to have speed explosions, atleast rn in the house of Kent Powergirl has telepathy,Kon has Tactile telekinesis in man of Tomorrow and Jon has some sort of electricity power
Bart: "Man, the Fans killed me"
Jason: "First time?"
As someone who knows everything* about Wally West prior to his disappearance (New 52), reappearance in Convergence, and then re-reappearance: he's the best comic book character that I've ever seen. The most complete character. His series starts off with him making sure everyone knows he's not the other Flash (Barry's identity was still secret), he has his 21st birthday, runs through crappy relationships, has parents who are jerks, wins the lottery (twice I think), then meets Linda and they start to grow the character into a really likable person. Then Wally is flung into the future, John Fox comes, then Dark Flash (Walter West) then Linda is "killed", all while his powers go in and out throughout the years... But, Someone said Wally West was the DC Peter Parker: a superhero dealing with every day life situation (except for the lottery thing). 👍🏻
agreed
I wish he'd get live action
There is no point in making this correction but 20th birthday*
@@LightspeedLad YOU GET IT!
Actually, from what I understand of the lottery situation, they played it pretty realistically. Sure, he didn’t end up doing a bunch of drugs, but he basically blew a bunch of his money on big parties and dating pretty girls. Sounds pretty realistic to me.
DC's biggest issue with their characters is they keep trying to reboot and forget old characters and when that fails they have to bring up the originals but keep the newer ones since they built up a fandom by that point. That's why the Young Justice crew have essentially been replaced by other characters.
Honestly I’d say one minute war has showed how well the flash family can be utilized. Everyone gets their time to shine and it’s such a fun time
best the book has been in 20 yrs
The arc ended and I do feel like it showed how you can use everyone, however it still didn’t really use Max much and him and Bart have seemingly been written off at the end
@@spacepenguins8939 Yeah Max was the only one that didn't have a big moment. As for Max and Bart, I feel like that was supposed to tease some bigger story for the two however with Adams being booted off the book, I don't think we will see that realized.
I always liked how they used to have unique abilities and weaknesses
Only Wally could steal and grant speed, and could make constructs out of the Speed Force
Barry could travel in time, but only with the treadmill cosmic treadmill.
Bart could remember anything he speed-reads permanently and can make Speed Force clones.
Jesse has super strength and can “fly”
But it wouldn’t make sense since they all use the speed force(which Barry literally generates making him top g), I just figured people always knew that if one speedster does it they all can depending on how fast or how connected they are to the speed force.
Wally time traveled too. And Jesse's other powers came from her mom, a non Speedster.
@@vonex3397 Well first off Barry doesn’t generate the Speed Force. That hasn’t been the case for a while.
And two, just because they all use the Speed Force, it still manifests in different ways, and different people are more skilled with different parts of it.
@@jdg3606 Yes I’m saying Barry could travel *only* with the cosmic treadmill. And ya that’s true, she gets it from Liberty Bell. But it’s still unique.
That isn't true. In the new 52 Barry did that against Godspeed. He also has the speed mind which sees future probabilities.
Quick correction: it was Mark Waid who created the concept of the speed force
Came to say this, but saw you already covered it.
Yep, I was wrong about. I meant Geoff Johns made the speed force as we know it at this point. basically the version you see in everything is from Rebirth and onward. Mark Waids was more of, this is a mcguffin
Don't worry, still great points you make. I think the redundacy problem is very present in DC for the last 10 years. Specially with the flash and the bat families
@@comicstorian So yeah. He made the speed force trash.
Wally & Wallace are paradox cousins. Iris has two siblings, both named their kid after their grandfather. Or is it a great grandfather?
It's the grandfather, but the thing is Ace's middle still is Rudolph which doesn't make any sense at all
@@nuxmitikuna7718 Hmmn now that I think of it, Wallace didn't know his dad was Daniel, even thinks of him as his Uncle until he finds out later. So the only thing I can think of is that they might've brought him up as Rudolph's kid.
Inertia: *Orchestrates the events that lead to the death of Bart Allen
Inertia: “Why do I hear boss music?”
Wally West: *Comes out of a portal at super speed punching Ineria
Not tormenting Eobard Thawne for eternity is a missed opportunity
In one of the comics for The Flash, Barry decided to Forgive Eobard Thawne, and remove his Powers.
This reset him into the Future to not having Speed, and just being a Normal Tour Guide for the Flash Museum.
@@baligong3592 Yup that's in Finish Line aka the last arc of Joshua Williamson's run.
Quick correction. Barry came back in Final Crisis in the New 52 he just reset the whole DC along with Dr. Manhattan.
right? It's like he forgot that Barry was integral to several events before Flashpoint.
The problem came with Barry's return and flashpoint leading into the new 52 .
The original flash family was max, Jay,wally, Jesse, and Bart ( with irey and Jai one day joining naturally as people retire)
It was a good balance but they all got erased and they added new speedsters to make up Barry's new cast and when they brought the old flash family it created this problem.
Wallace and Avery are redundant in a world where Bart and jesse exist and are not even close to aging out of their roles or retiring. Irey and Jai also now are in a weird place cause they were supposed to naturally grab those vacancies.
Despite the issues which tbh almost every ongoing comic has a similar issue Jeremy Adams is doing a great job with it regardless and people should really give the flash a try cause it's arguably DC's best ongoing RN
Also btw mark waid made the speedforce concept not Geoff johns.
Been thoroughly enjoying Zdarsky’s Batman run rn as well. He knows how to write Bruce and especially Tim! It’s refreshing
Honestly, Jeremy Adams did a fantastic job blending the two flash families together. Especially when it comes to Wallace, because even though Wallace was meant to be a part of Barry’s flash family, Jeremy Adams does a great job making Wallace feel like he fits within Wally’s flash family. I think Wally and Wallace are a much better dynamic duo than Barry and Wallace, their relationship reminds me so much like Peter Parker and Miles Morales. I love Wallace and Bart’s little rivalry over who should be Kid Flash, his relationship with Irey and Jai are wholesome, and his place in Wally’s flash family feels natural.
the original flash family was jay, barry and wally. i hate this take a lot of wally stans have which is basically "its all barry's fault, just get rid of him and everything will be right again" when its really not like that at all
@@swoop2386 no it wasn't the flash family wasn't a concept until Waid's run with Wally.
Jay, Bart, Wally, Jesse , Max Mercury was the original group of speedsters called the flash family in comics, Barry was dead at that point.
Barry coming back was fine how they established it in flashpoint was terrible in the long run as it effectively erased nearly all of 1987- 2000's flash lore which directly leads to the oversaturation of speedsters in the DC comics as they try to rebuild it with new editorial mandated characters.
they should've simply just slotted Barry in the original flash family like they did anyway in rebirth.
You should definitely do a video about Bar Torr. I think one of the reasons why Barr Torr and the New52 Superboy didn’t work was because of the fact that both Clark and Barry history were either just starting or was just a confusing mess, that they had to make Bar Torr and New52 Kon-El as completely different people with completely different origins.
Honestly I don’t think that probably wouldn’t have worked in the New52, at least in the way that they did it. The DC You era of the Teen Titans that consisted of Red Robin, Wonder Girl, Bunker, Raven, Beast Boy, and Tanya Spears Power Girl, honestly fits much better.
That's why the New 52 being a reboot is a lie, of ot was really a reboot not only the "main characters" would be younger, like Grayson would still be a kid/teenager but they went for 4 robins already
I don't like being this guy, but speedforce was created in 94-95 by I believe Mark Waid then they retconned that Barry didn't die and was trapped in the speedforce until the end of final crisis. They then had Flash Rebirth (like they did with Hal Jordan when they made him a lantern again) and had both Barry and Wally until New 52.
Nah ur not that guy, I haven’t even read much of Waid’s stuff on Flash but I know he created the speedforce. It’s a common trivia fact
@@Junya01 I haven't read much Waid stuff either, but like you said it's kinda a common trivia thing. It was a way to give Wally a "deeper connection" for more speed since Barry has a more scientific connection to speed and Wally has a spiritual connection to his speed
Waid actually made speed force way before retconning Barry's fate. It was a thing in "Terminal Velocity" storyline. You are correct about this happening in 1994-95 though :D
@@Mattatiah95 exactly. I meant the retconned Barry fate as in they wrapped that in post creation of speedforce
Yea, I mispoke, I am trying to do these off the top of my head. Mistakes are made. So I go into here to accept my failures and correct. What I meant was the version of the Speed Force as we know it was made with Geoff Johns. He just made it what it is, while MArk Waid made the actual speed force and its original Mcguffin powers
Something I've always said is that you can have characters with similar powers, as long as they aren't exactly the same, or are used in different ways. Best examples are Spider-Man and Miles Morales, and Hulk and She-Hulk.
Spider-Man Peter Parker and Miles Morales were both bitten by radioactive spiders. The difference is that the kind of spider that bit both of them respectively was different. Because of this Peter is physically stronger, but Miles can turn invisible and has some sort of sting. This means that in any situation, they would probably act differently and therefore they remain interesting.
As for Hulk and She-Hulk: both have similar anger management issues that turn them into powerful beings, Hulk being stronger than She-Hulk. The difference is Hulk is usually portrayed as stupid and easily manipulated, while She-Hulk keeps her head and can think and strategize. Again: put these two in the same situation and you'll two different ways of solving said situation.
Unfortunately, you can't do too much with super-speed. As far as characters, I like the Flash and Kid-Flash dynamic. But that's all you need. If you wanted more, you could introduce somebody whose super-speed allows them to naturally travel through time, someone who can absorb and redirect lightning, I don't know what else. But the uniqueness is all you really need for it to work. Otherwise you just have a group of characters that do the exact same thing, and really don't have much else they can do.
Oddly enough in real life having a bunch of fast people would probably come in handy a lot even if they have the same powers.
Irey West specializes in phasing hut every speedster can do that, Jai has super strength and energy explosions but Ace and Wally have both done that before. I think the biggest problem is that everytime a new speedster gets a unique power it's later learned by a more established older speedster like Barry learning speed steal after Wally or Everyone having Tornado arms after Donald and Dawn Allen, i think a good way of spreading them out is if they learn other forces like Irey getting sage force Telepathy or Ace having electro magnetism.
Please do more of these Problems with, the videos are not only informative about the history of the character, but also gives your personal biases about the characters
What they need to do is as you say get back to retiring them so that they're in the background that can be tapped if needed but they're basically living their life without having to deal with the problems of having to run to save the world.
Max Mercury was around in the old west days. They could have let him die off natural. Have Bart mourn his death. That would have been a great comic right there.
Then Jay Garrick was in sim-retirement anyway.
And finally Johnny Quick went into the speed force fighting Savetar.
That's only 4 speedster left.
Wally, Bart, Jessie and the returning Barry.
Barry - Solo
Wally - Titans
Bart - Young Justice
Jesse - Part-time
@@briansmith48 jhonny was killed by zoom in the speed force in flash rebirth
@@eliandervalderen5849 . I didn't read much of rebirth.
Okay then. Johnny was stuck in the speed force then killed by Zoom.
I thought Johnny Quick was just stuck in the speed force just like Barry was. Barry hadn't yet escaped the speed force at the time of Savatar.
@@briansmith48 and final crisis flash came back to the real world. And rebirth they explain the changes in Flash's backstory including becoming the black racer and then find out I think it was issue number five we find out what is behind his transformation and that is set to reverse flash Professor Zoom infected very with the negative speed force and was causing him to kill speedsters came in contact with
I feel like the ensemble cast is the best part of the Flash Family. I feel like every arc can deal with each different character. In fact, I think they can progress more because we are not with them all the time and their lives can develop off panel.
You missed both Green lantern Rebirth and Flash Rebirth, which brought back Hal and Barry before the new 52. Barry created the new 52 in Flash point. Mark Waid created the speed force originally.
I think that redundant powers is the problem with most of the "families". Flash =speedsters, Batman= street level/ fighting prowess/tactical thinking, Superman=speed/flight/strength/etc, Arrow=arrows... They are almost all carbon copies of the progenitor character. Even Wonder Woman. The League, Titans, Teen Titans, even they are similar in available power sets for the most part. But at least they as a group aren't simply copies of each other.
Facts, this is why most “families” are kind of useless and don’t serve much purpose
This is EXACTLY the same format where I would loveeee to hear Sal's thoughts on the same characters. great idea for a format of videos Benny.
This is the same issue marvel has with Spiderman. You've got about a handful of active heroes all with the same spider powers as Peter. But more or better ones of the abilitys they share.
Personally for both they need to either better diversify their powers. Or kill/retire a large chunk of them for good. Shame for the bat family.
Biggest reason why Spider-Man is ruined
@@vulcanoath6026 that and spiderman comics read like torture porn with how bad things keep getting for him
@@vulcanoath6026 nah the _biggest_ reason is because they don't let him grow
What do you mean Shame for The Batfamily?
Marvel doesn’t have the same issue with Spider-Man, because Spider-Man works alone.
Sounds like this episode could have been called "the problems with comics - explained" and would still be better entertainment than most recent comics.
Wally west is personally my favorite flash growing up and frankly I was way more invested in his family with Linda park and his kids Irey west and Jai west becoming heroes way more then the actual flash family as a whole, now that's not the say the flash family is bad no far from it there are good characters in the flash family like Jay Garrick Barry Allen wally west and Bart Allen and max mercury and many other characters in that family are great the problem with the flash family I have with at least some of them is that well some of them don't get the time to shine like they used to do but that's just my opinion.
Wally West became the Flash for 23 years from the first Crisis in 1985 to Barry Allen’s resurrection in the Final Crisis in 2008, not 25 years.
Benny, you may not know 90s comics too well (or didn’t review them throughly before the video) but your knowledge of contemporary stories is on point. Thank you!
Jesse Quicks father was Johnny Quick. Mother was JSA’s Liberty Belle
Tbh bart Allen was my favourite thanks to young justice show and especially the comics then when he was kid flash it was awesome,his flash run was alright but yeh I like him and wally probably the most although I feel like jay,Barry and max where cool but they all had roles and moved forward with new people replacing each other
Anybody wanna talk about the fact that at 17:52, this is exactly like in the Incredibles. I can't unsee this!
Really enjoying these problem with videos!
Wally, Bart, Jessie, Irey, and maybe Wallace should be the only Flash Family Members that aren’t retired or dead and they could each but on a different team
Wally and Wallace have the Titans
Bart has Young Justice
Jessie has The JSA
The problem is that it really hasn't felt like a family in a long time. It's just a bunch of redundancies without anyone having their own role like with the Batfamily.
Honestly this is how I would have had the Flash family be being doing for their own thing.
For Wally, I would have him be the main flash of central and keystone city, he deals with his wife and kids, training Wallace, Irey, Jai, and sometimes Bart, and be the flash for the titans. For Barry, I would have him be the flash of justice league, finally having him and Iris to be married and have kids, and would be the flash of central city if Wally is too busy. For Jay, I would solely have him with the JSA.
For Wallace, I would have him as Kid Flash, being the main sidekick of Wally, and being part of titans west. For Bart, I would have him as Impulse, mostly being trained by Max Mercury, and being part of teen titans. For Avery, I would solely have her be the flash of china, being part of justice league of china, and would work alongside Barry and Wallace.
Irey and Jai, who are now called Thunderheart and Surge, would mostly be a part of young justice working alongside Damian and Jon. Jesse Quick would work with the JSA, and Max would mostly be doing his own thing.
An idea I had was to evolve the Speed Force where the different Flashes get a different expression of it that it doesn't always manifest as lighting which causes them to use it differently for an example Wallace speed force energy manifests as wind, fire or some other element instead of lighting. Also they should solidify where each character belongs like Jay with The Justice Society, Barry with the Justice League, Wally with the Titans, Bart with Young Justice and Wallace with Teen Titans.
The speed force was created by MARK WAID during the Terminal Velocity arc when Wally finally surpassed barry. Grant Morrison added to it during his run on the title and then Geoff Johns when he was writing wally. You could have wikied this within 30 secs ffs
17:30 excuse me, we just got Red Devil, Hotspot, and Lagoon Boy back just for them to die
Benny, Jesse Quick is not related to Max. She is the daughter of Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle.
Wally is just Wallace but a shorter version so it's the same name.
every family in DC has the same settings and powers/gimmick the thing that separates them is there unique stories that are attached to each characters,powersets dont matter its character and story that makes them stand out, its the reason if your a fan you'd never confuse kon el vs clark vs steel or impulse vs Wally they're just too different characters to have the same thing going on despite DC insistence on trying to make everyone replace the trinity or the 7 JL , the batfamily could have the exact same arguments in which theyre all nightly vigilante crimefighter detectives but you'd never mix up helena vs Cass or Damian
Bro these videos are awesome bravo 👏
The explanation for the 2 Wallys is that they’re cousins who are both named after their great grandfather Wallace West. Wallace “Wally” The Flash (Red head). Wallace “Ace” Kid Flash (African American). The explanation is found in the DC Universe: Rebirth One Shot
Nice to know
@ThatYellowSpiderGuy DC rebirth in 2016 retconned them to be cousins. They’re not the same person anymore.
imo Wallace West should've been retconned to being from Earth-2 and the sidekick of Jay Garrick.
I love a good rant and this was a banger!🔥🔥🔥
The reason the charaters of main story such as prime earth and 616 are stuck and can’t progress or be happy is why I like alternate universe where characters can be happy even if the world is down on it’s luck like renew your vows or Dark Ages where charaters can grow and aren’t freaking messed up with main canon because let’s face their probably never going get Peter back with Mary Jane or at least not on the same level as say Renew Your Vows
I would love to see you do a video like this on Supergirl.
You need to read the Mark Waid era.
I have, I just mispoke. I meant Speed force as we know it is from Geoff Johns. Waids Speed Force was more of a. This is where we get out powers. Geoff Johns has made it more of a intelligent force with a place you can go all all that jazz
Can't wait for individual videos on flash family members. But talking about lack of power progression and underutilisation all I can think about is Donna Troy. And the Wonder family. All of whom had clear roles and stakes until new 52. And now are all over the place and DC hasn't known what to do with Donna in years.
The Wally character assassination was brutal. I still hold anger for the whole Heroes in Crisis fiasco.
Love Wally West and the Flash characters but there are like 15 of them and that’s way too many. Makes it super difficult to write a situation where you’d need that much speed.
Bro.. Green Lantern and Flash are my fav 2 DC heroes also! Like I can never decide which I like more so they tied for first lol. And for Marvel it was usually Spider-Man and Iron-Man cuz of the 90s cartoons mostly.. I was so happy that both their movies were like the first ones marvel did well lol. I was and still am sooo happy Iron -Man ended up gettin the recognition I feel he's deserved.
I dont like how most flash villains, especially from the tv show, are also speedsters that are just... faster for no reason really. I understand that the speedforce only grants a certain amount of speed but like I want a flash to completely master his speed. We know the flash has weaknesses. Ice because its slippery and slows him down, telepathic attacks, electricity. Even the element of surprise is really effective which is how mirror master always initiates. Why cant we see more of these villains instead of. Reverse Flash. Godspeed. Reverse Flash again. Black death flash or whatever.
Barry Allen came back before New 52. He was the main character of Flashpoint and i remember him being in Blackest Night
i think they should bring back mas y menos. the best speedsters!
The Speed Force exists in the Mark Waid era of the Flash.
Honestly Wally was the Flash I grew up with. So when Barry comes in, I'm like "who da fuck is this guy and why is the Flash now" 😂
Same i grew up with Wally in Teen Titans,Justice League and Young Justice so Barry being the definitive Flash in every cartoon and game rubbed me the wrong way.
I fucking love these “the problem with…” videos. Keep ‘em coming
Will do! Thank you!
I hate to break it to you but Max Mercury was Jesse Quicks daughter. Her father was the Johnny quick of her Earth which was the main Earth-like guy and Liberty Bell she accesses the speed force through a formula like her father did but even without this before she has some speed and flight abilities that she inherited from her mother. And this is all just why I remember from the top of my head effect and Flash rebirth we get to see Johnny quick and Max mercury in the speed force as he aboard thong supposedly killed Johnny quick for Good by dissolving him with the negative speed force
Max and Jessie not related other than Max trying to mentor Johnny about the speed force. Though at the end of his life he said F the formula and just ran. 3X2(9YZ)4A the famed speed equation. When Wally used it time seemed to stop. Meaning he was simply that sped up.
Ya I honestly dont know much on Max, Jessie and Johnny outside of Max's relationship to Bart and mispoke without thinking about all of their relationships. Thats why I left them alone for most of the video.
@@comicstorian that's fair I only know about it because I'm used to reading comics from decades before I was born. Max's actually called the Zen master Speedster and has spent time studying the spiritual aspects of the speed force. In one of the impulse Comics I think it's been years since I've read thumb he talked about how the speed force would randomly Empower people and critters throughout time including a talk about a panda bear a great Panda that has super speed in China some 600 years prior to modern-day. Also funny thing I think the last time I saw Johnny quick outside of his brief cameo in the flash rebirth one was when he said that the formula for super speed was literally just the speed force. And he broke it down explaining it as members of The Flash family. Barry coming back at the end of final crisis I could deal with especially with how they were pulling the ark about him being where are they going through the problems that PTSD. And this is before he started accidentally killing other speedsters with the touch and humbling Superman and a footrace telling him that the only reason he won some of those foot races because they were for charity
Actually Wally is the main Flash again now.
Speed Force was created by Mark Waid very early into his run of the Flash.
Speedsters do not have the same power set, there are things one is more skilled with or have a power exclusively for themselves. Barry, Ace/Wallace and Jay are very basic, but...
Wally has speed steal, he can lend his speed to others, stuff explodes when he vibrates through it, he can create stuff out of speed force like a green lantern. Also, he was the only one capable of entering end exiting speed force, when that was still a big deal.
Bart used to be able to create clones of himself out of speed force, he's also the only speedster that retains the knowledge he gets when speed learning.
Jesse Quick has bursts of super strenght and flight inherited from her parents.
Jai West can strenghten himself for some reason.
Irey is the best at vibrating and she was also shown to be able to speed up time for stuff.
The Speed Force as we know its invention is from Geoff Johns with the 2005 when he revamped its whole origin and who it interacts with people. Pre Geoff Johns and the new 52, it was just a McGuffin to give a reasoning behind the Speedsters. but you are right, technically it came before. As for the powers, they are all wipe clean since New 52. Every speedster is the exact same thing at this point. Thats why I said the New 52 ruined it. Before that we had 1 speedster going through their lives learning powers. Now they are all just the same. Everything you listed hasnt been a present This guy only power since they revamped everything.
Those "exclusivities" haven't been used since the 90s and Early 2000s. The only thing that stayed was Jesse's Flight and Super Strength because both parents are superheroes, and Jai's Powers.
Jai strengthened himself by accelerating Muscle Growth, which sounds dumb, especially when they make him bulk up like the Hulk.
The Different Forces are a Missed opportunity to Retcon Jai into having The Strength Force to make this make more sense.
@@comicstorian If their exlusive powers were wiped then why was Wally using his exclusive powers in Rebirth? First time he met Wallace he froze an explosion with his speed steal ability. During an event recently they made a callback to that one time when Wally basically stopped time when he used Quick's formula on top of his own speed. So it's not like those powers are gone. They just are not used by writers.
As for Speed Force... I don't know =3= To me it didn't change much from the time Mark Wade, Mark Millar and Grant Morrison wrote it. Geoff Johns sure added his share, but by the time he took over most basics were already set and it is those basics that are being carried over mostly, along with silver age stuff like "protective aura", most recently mentioned in One Minute War during Wallace's and Bart's squabble.
Tbh I found a lot of what Geoff Johns added daunting and straight up silly. Like the fact that Barry created the Speed Force... For all of multiverse and time, and that he is somehow generating it while he walks/runs.
And let's not talk about the show. >.< Speed Force there is... Not Speed Force. Back in the day and now too, Speed Force was a phenomenon, a force of nature. in the TV show it somehow is a sentient being that can come and talk to you. But you can also sweat it into a bottle and inject it into yourself apparently.
I believe the issue is not redundancy, but underutilization of differences between the characters (both their powers and personalities) stemming from new writers either not being able to catch up with years of content to capitalize on it, or just plain disinterest in those characters. Or maybe editorial decissions, I don't know. SOMETHING is happening there that prevents writers from going deeper into different characters.
BUT! To end this on a more "I agree with you" note, I think giving all characters their turns would help a lot. Making "The Flash" a book where storylines rotate. To give those characters more breathing space and time to build up differences between them. This storyline is about Barry and supporting cast. This one is about Wally and supporting cast. This one is about Bart and Carol. Another one about Wallace working on his problems with being Kid Flash (he certainly does feel threatened with other pretenders to the mantle returning). And so on. And once in a while (idk, once a year) we get a big get together, because something bigger is happening and all of them are needed. Those big things do not need to happen all the time for comics to be interesting after all.
I really enjoyed the last few issues of the Flash, when stuff was smaller in scale. When we had some insight in Wally finding a job, spending time with his family, rekindling his friendship with Hartley. I'd gladly see more of it, with different members of the cast too. Bart especially has huge potential, as he already had his "solo" series where Max co starred with him. They both have their own "infrastructure" to tell stories outside of immediate Flash environment for a breath of fresh air.
@@baligong3592 So the issue is not redundancy, it's underutilization.
Also, Jai's powers are stupid >.< It'd make much more sense if he was for example given power to exert more force than normal when he moves. Like an infinite mass punch, but on a way smaller scale. I don't know if it was Mark Waid's idea with that muscle growth, but to me it is a huge miss.
@@Mattatiah95
I agree with you! Although it wasn't Mark Waid's idea iirc, it was Geoff Johns' idea. Geoff was more into bringing back the science-y side of the Flash, which also led him to make Jai do the Muscle thing... Issue was: if it was the case he would either be falsifying his strength or would stay Muscled up and Massive.
That's also why I think introducing different Forces also was a Great Opportunity and a Blessing for Irey and Jai in disguise.
Imagine Wally brings back Jai and Irey after he broke out the other forces, only for Jai and Irey now be different, being that Jai is connected to the Strength Force, and Irey to . It'll allow for both to have more interesting story alongside new Content. It would make both of them not feel like "Mini Female Wally" and "Mini Male Linda"
It's stated in cannon by vegeta at one point sayins don't receive permanent injury's as in broken bones should always heal correctly not that they regrow limbs and that sayins stay in their prime until they get old like 60 and 70s.
Edit: also goku was died for 7 years giving him a long time of no aging and was like 20/21 when dbz started
What no John fox? Also max mercury started th speed force concept!
LOVE they breakdowns
Really dig "The problem with" series, great stuff man
Dude the hair ! Wow it’s been a while since I’ve seen it
The Flash family worked until they brought Barry back. Before that, each speedster had their own character traits and design elements. When they brought Barry back they changed his character to be alot more like Wally thus making Wally redundant. They had to do this if they wanted Barry to be the main Flash since silver age Barry was boring compared to the character Wally developed into during the Waid/Johns runs.
Dummy Barry is nothing like Wally, what stories did you read? Barry is more serious and nerdy, Wally is more the comedy relief guy and family man. They are nothing alike and they didn’t make him like Wally at all.
The Flash is also my favorite superhero. Love Barry and Wally. I loved your vids on Tim, Jason, and Damian. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about the speedsters.
💜⚡️
Max Mercury actually isn't related to Jesse Quick. Jesse is the daughter of the Golden Age heroes, Johnnh Quick and Liberty Belle
And she's the only one in the Flash Family that can fly and has super strength. That is until they invented Jai
that's the one thing i noticed to, and why the bat family is written while while the flash family really isn't. all the robins were all trained by batman, but each of them is different in both mindset and battle style. while with the flash family, i don't see that many difference. they all have the same power, none of then really have something that defines them excpt for different suits and different life styles but that's about it
They’re all clones of one another atleast the bat fam use different weapons and tactics not a bat boomerang 24/7
Mark Waid created the Speed Force in the 90s
With such a long story in DC comics I think the time compression of the new 52 did more damage than repaired things overall. Now everybody is stepping on everybody else's toes.
Wally and Wallace (Ace) are cousins now. Wally is the main Flash, Barry is a multiversal explorer atm. Barry returned in Final Crisis and Flash Rebirth. Barry created the speed force when he got his powers. Jay was just fast until the 90s. Max Mercury was one of the first speedsters in the 1800s. The current one min war arc is good. The Williamson and Adams runs have been great.
Barry Allen actually returned in Final Crisis #2
Barry Allen used to become Blue Lantern during Blackest Night
Funny enough I feel that a huge fix is literally the way the speed force allows constructs and more creativity.
They're basically kinetic-based green lanterns, and a way the multiple green lanterns coexist in the DC comicverse this far is that they occupy different sectors, and have notably different ways they exist. Kyle Rayner is the artist and most creative in how he tackles issues; John Stewart has an architectural background and his constructs are more sound from the ground up with a variety of structures. Hal Jordan has generally the most sheer willpower to the point his constructs are simple but hold up well for what they are.
Similarly the speedforce CAN work for them in ways that ties to how they are, and doesn't need its only limits to lie in "how connected to the speedforce are they to influence their speed?" One being more able to create speed constructs, one able to utilise lightning better, one able to vibrate more! But the current issue is that this power concept has been applied universally with the only difference being their potency.
I don't have an issue with all the characters being dubbed "Flash" either since I think it's a good idea for the moniker to almost tie the identity to a morally good user of the speedforce, all a red blur to the point they may as well be a singular force of nature.
With the way I thought they treated Wally, I thought he was universally despised. I mean when I was looking into the Flash and his family, I think at the time I remember him being dead and then replaced and then a murderer for no reason but Barry was chilling in both the comics and tv.
"And Wallace...is over here." Perfect
Loving the hair!
Although I love Nightwing I was really hoping for a Problem with Nightwing video
Ayo Barry has Iris back. Wally has Linda and the kids back... and Wallace... is over here 18:30
Killed me
My problem is that for some reason beyond what I know , Wally is now main flash and Barry's backseat is so far back I a variant cover of a one minute war comic was reverse flash punching wally . come on !!! I agree with you on that and a lot of other things
BULL, Barry came back as part of Final Crisis and Flash Rebirth, well before New 52! He was in Blackest Night!
17:54 The Teen Titans have been captured by Syndrome 😂
My start with comic books was really the JLA run from Grant Morrison so Wally and Kyle are my Flash and Green Lantern. As much as nightfall, and the death of Superman caused trouble their rehabilitated world was a Continuity that felt respectful to DCs long history.
.love these man
Didn't Barry come back during _Final Crisis?_ I'm pretty sure that Barry Allen and Hal Jordan were talking to each other during _Blackest Night._
Just realised how big the flash family is and it's a mess
I got into the Flash comics 4 years ago I was so confused with Wally and Wallace because I knew Wallace because of the Cw Flash show so he was familiar to me. Wally was a little confusing to me because I didn't know much about the character other than he was in the young justice cartoon which I didn't watch to much and then The New 52 made things confusing by turning him evil the way they did
If you watched the Flash in the Justice League cartoons, that’s Wally. He’s the optimist jokester type while Barry is the serious one. Wally is also canonically the fastest and GOAT
That’s hilarious. He Carrie’s more kryptonite in his belt that he tells Superman isn’t there.
I feel like Bleach and Dragon Ball have the same problem but they just solve it by either making Goku the only person that matters or just giving GOAT status to whichever character is most popular. However they also end up overscaling the villains to stupid levels.
I always like theses videos about the state of dc getting your input. Keep up the good work.
the comic industry i love but the redundancy's and non progression with characters gets frustrating to follow. The characters and there stories is what we want and DC is wishy washy or dont care.
Its hard to be a legacy character when no actually stays dead
The only Revive that worked was Superman,Batman and Green Arrow, the Early 2000s Flash Rebirth and Flashpoint were fun but should've just ended with Barry dying again or atleast going back to the speedforce
Agreed that the New 52 is the cause of all this. Rebirth was great and was meant to try and fix it, but it stalled out and went no where. It feels this new "Reboot" is just more of the same. They started the New 52 because they felt things had become to hard to follow and wanted a fresh start, but they failed to commit. They then wanted to try and fix it by just tossing everything into the Pot with Rebirth, but didnt take the time to plan it out properly. Now everything is just Bloated and it looks like this new Event is just making it worse.
Do Superman have a problem? (like the evil Superman that people like more than the OG/good Superman, sometimes that they say Superman is a boring dc character) I like to see your opinion about Superman
Would say to op but thats a dc and comic problem
Wait, he didn't make his own costume he got it from Nick Fury who felt he didn't do enough for Peter and thought his death was his fault and he also got web fluid formula and web shooters from Aunt May. Although that's not really relevant, cause you are right, this whole Secret Wars universe merge thing really broke Miles and he doesn't really work anymore, i think the only answer would be to do a whole another reboot, but i highly doubt they'll be doing that. I think it'd make a cool story if we had Peter in his 30s with wife and kids being a school teacher and also kinda a mentor figure for Miles (for a time before he goes his own way) and so that Miles doesn't do good with his power cause his dad died or Peter died, but just because Spider-man inspired him, he gave him a good example and was a great role model and inspired him to do good. That's sends a better message than having every hero do good, because someone they loved died. You don't need your mom or dad to die to realize you have to do the right thing with your powers.
When are we getting a Comicstorian Gamersupps line lol
New 52 Wally was Daniel West’s son. I’m assuming that his mom was black, and then regular Wally’s parents must be from a different part of the family tree. If his parents weren’t erased, that is.
I like these videos because some of the things you talk about I think of. I don't read many comics because I just don't like the formatting anymore. Got into linear stories when I was becoming a teen and made me get away from how the comic industry is. But seeing these videos makes me feel like I'm not alone anymore with how annoying comics are. You always put out a good idea with what they should do and yeah they just need to change. They need to make a linear story with main continuity DC characters that will interact every now and then. If it's a justice league thing then how about a few of those characters get a book that ties in to it with a fleshed out world as best they can. They need to make the DC main continuity world a clear vision and should work on it. Then if they want any other stories. They can do a multiverse where they can do literally anything they want. But only do it if it's also going to be a quality storyline. Not some oh this is them here doing this and that's all. Not everything has to be a big world ending or reality changing disaster. Not every character needs to be the best at whatever. Yes batman superman flash. They can make their way through life still learning like how real human beings are. Not saying it has to be too much one or the other just a balance where there's always room to do something. DC and marvel have probably everything relating to some power system. But won't do anything with an actual power system. Yes I know how difficult it could be but that's why if they made a second storyline in a multiverse where they can do whatever they want. They can make their way to something and take their time giving readers and everyone a new thing to look forward to in that franchise. But please not the woke stuff or anything else that is too much. People can be whatever just don't change characters or make that character have a spotlight as big as the main character if they haven't done enough to deserve it. Their defining traits should be of character not the woke stuff. The perfect situation is new multiverse storyline that's also worked on well with ideas that DC doesn't normally show but that people would still enjoy while the main DC is being polished with some more linear storylines. Both making their own vision that people would be interested in. Comics are dying and it's like DC and marvel don't see they are killing it. I feel like these franchises have gotten so big that people see it was some religion or something. Having to pick a side or an opinion of it that they need to stay on until they experience the bad parts of them. People say they love superheroes and watch the movies and know nothing about them. But that's not the real point. The real point is that marvel and DC are seeing these people as the real fans because sure they're what brings in the money. But they're not the ones who want their vision and their best because idk if I'm speaking for myself now but I think we value these characters to a higher degree. And we expect these characters to be shown in a way that makes us feel like there is wonder. When comics came out for people at war I can only imagine how it made some fans. They saw the wonder inside those books and just think that brought them to a new place that they don't know what to expect. Probably taking their mind off the wars. And us viewers either watch these videos or read the books and we just see it all going away into some corporate marketing for the masses that just get so convoluted because everything and everyone wants this and that and everyone needs a bit of all of it because it works and makes them money. It's sad seeing this. Again why I moved away from comics. Linear story lines are good. If they wanted to replace everyone they could write a multiverse or make it the main continuity storyline and just write it all out start as small as they want but have that vision. And idk I just don't see that they do have it anymore. Especially with how I've seen anime and other things that I felt I enjoyed way more because they were written the way they wanted it to be written. Everything from the creators and working together for something they put their hearts into. DC and marvel is just not something I'm sure of anymore
Hot take: let's make 30 of the same hero with sight variations in name spelling and hair color.
First of all, I love it.