Every Problem With The DCEU
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The Hot Sauce thishotsauceis...
Want To Support More? / comicstorian
Want Us on Spotify?! open.spotify.c...
▸Streaming! / @eligiblemonster
▸ / comicstoriangaming
▸Patreon! / comicstorian
▸Discord! discordapp.com...
▸Start Your Collection Today! amzn.to/2DUT1oc
Short answer WB wanted their own Superhero movieverse but rushed it and the Long answer is probably very complicated.
Dam it took my reply lol
This is the overall answer
And they picked the absolute worst person to direct a Superman movie and set the tone for their universe.
Rushed...if DCEU still running till today...pretty sure it gonna replace MCU today 🤣 DC just get bad luck on actor/actress choice to continue the timeline....
Studio interference ruined it
This video should realistically be 3 hours long because that’s how troubled the DCEU was
Snyder cut
Should be the total runtime of the entire series
@@turtleanton6539 Dang it, I was going to say that!! 🤣
this video should realistically be 3 hrs long plus a year-long hashtag driven movement for a so-so director's cut
@@turtleanton6539Comicstorian Cut
3 Main Things:
1. Don't try to replicate MCU with Hero + Humour x Family friendly, show DC in its DC way
2. Hire the writers and directors that loves, respects the DC stories, characters and its universe
3. Take time to build up the characters and the universe
Bonus
*. WB needs to shut up
The 2nd point is the biggest one for me. WB is constantly hiring directors who can only take these characters seriously if they change them to "fix" them. These people throw away the history and only make these characters dark and gritty. It's so uninspired.
Way more two and three in less number one. I can always tell who has never read comic books recently are in the past when they automatically assume that all the Marvel stuff has been bubblegum stuff and thus all the stuff in DC is super serious. Reality the super serious stuff came from Zack Snyder and the bubble gum stuff is stuff that's kind of demanded in by Hollywood some degree. But even in the movies themselves, the tones have shifted depending on the characters. Like a lot of people I guess. Keep forgetting how dark and depressing not only infinity War was but the beginning of end game were like everyone's in therapy and half of the world is dead. Hell, even in the first avengers were you see everyone treat the alien invasion like 9/11 because it literally was a city-wide. 911 is just something that will always stick with me and honestly is one of the most realistic things I've ever seen the superhero film do. And then you have the first Aquaman movie which Walt has its flaws. I really liked and I liked how not only light hearted it was, but how shockingly hurtful it was especially with the whole defeating the big underwater creature because it was lonely and needed someone to talk to and that's aquaman's greatest ability taking something that's usually laughed at and made something really serious. Something that I wish they would have actually did an a Justice league. And to be honest, the superheroes should have different tones. Batman should not be the same tone as Superman and vice versa. Spider-Man should not be the same tone as blade and vice versa. The long end of it is that we need better writers that understand these properties and also know how to make good films. Marvel used to be able to do that not anymore and DC can't get their own head out of their ass. Probably because we now have producers in charge of everything and not actual creative people with a good track record. Like Warner Brothers should have never gave Superman to Zack Snyder in the same way that Marvel should have not tried to make the third Ant-Man movie into the new Avengers.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp true, I mean just look at the line up (I gonna use my fav JL roster):
Superman the general yet powerful "hope" story becoming a symbol superhero story.
Batman show the gritty, harsh, dark superhero story.
Wonder Woman the historic, epic, godly superhero story.
Aquaman in underwater kingdom with new culture, throne, king superhero story.
Green Lantern in space adventure, basically a new world story to explore superhero story.
Flash probably the most light-hearted yet had its fair share of seriousness superhero story.
Martian Manhunter (honestly this guy deserves more respect) similar to superman but know the harshness and destruction, and holding the name of "Last Green Martian" superhero story.
So many types of superheroes we can explore but no, no, no everyone need to be dark, vigilant, paranoid like Batman because he's Batman...
DC is not dark. The big two have been almost identical in tone since their inception.
@@theotakuguy2571finally someone gives Jonn Jonnz the respect he deserves, he should always be a founding member of JL, especially over fucking Shazam, that shit pissed. Me. Off
Totally wanted to see more Hawkman I thought I was going to hate his interpretation but I loved it and I loved Bronson’s Doctor Fate. Their relationship was so dynamic.
Si nunca pensé que mi personaje favorito en una película iba a ser hawkman
I truly had no idea about Ben Affleck's struggle with alcoholism. That makes the whole ordeal with his Batman so much worse. I feel for him.
I mean the man was getting plenty of hate when he was casted and then after the movie people liked but also criticised him a lot as while great his batman wasn't what many want from the dark knight. at least it's no way to show him as a first movie kind of way. Then Justice League really took him down with the other personal stuff. He was seen as the main guy in the movie so much of the bad was tossed to him. Then his movie being canceled and the whole he's out and in and out and in was annoying
R.I.P Ben
No mention of the scrapped and DELETED Batgirl movie for taxes that’s now being investigated…?
That's not part of DCEU it was an elseworlds story
The gal gadot controversy goes a little deeper than her being in the military
Shes also just a bad actress. There are compilations of her delivering lines so flat and emotionless, its almost like she doesnt even understand what shes saying and shes just phonetically sounding out her lines. On paper, she couldve been a great wonder woman with the physical prowess and being attractive but she just lacked a good script and talent. Although, she is responsible for one of my favorite moments in both Justice Leagues and that is "Kal-El, no!"
@@proto6948totally 😭 like I don't get why people think she's a good wonder woman
I think she’s good actress 🤷🏿 don’t see the problem
Care to elaborate?
Well yeah given the Israel-Hamas war.
The thing that really bugged me was, "The hero" was the cause of the problem. In Man of Steel, called the Kyptonians, which lead to Zod, to Doomsday, and Steppenwolf. Aquaman's not caring about two black criminals made Black Manta. Don't get me started on The Flash. Wonder Woman was the only one who made the world better. I have been asking myself, would their universe have been better off without them?
"Written and directed by Zack Snyder" for Man of Steel? Nope. He didn't write any of his DC movies. MoS was written by David S Goyer, BvS by Goyer and Chris Terrio, and ZSJL by Terrio.
Nolan was also involved with MoS, but can't remember what role
@@sonkal-elkent6143 he was a producer, I'm fairly certain
@@sonkal-elkent6143 He was a producer and originally going to be the director but he instead called Snyder and told him to direct it because he thought he had such a unique visual style that would go well with the script.
Its a shame, as a fan of the DC universe I wish we had the integrity and quality of Marvel movies. The way Marvel handle their heroes and how they came all together even if movies are not all perfect, just makes me feel a lot of respect for them. When I watched Infinity war and end game I was just like, what the heck how did they manage to accomplish this, Marvel fans has to be so happy with this movie, and I didn't even watched all Marvel movies when I watched End Game. Now that I watched them all and understand better what is going on, the way the movies led to end game is just mind blowing. What Marvel accomplished up to the end game era, will never happen again on the film industry.
The success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe was like catching lightning in a bottle.
In the early days they were produced by their own Marvel Studios, a relatively small creative and corporate team that were able to control mostly everything from start to finish.
And you can see the wheels of the MCU starting to fall off the bigger it got and as Disney got more involved with much more interference.
The DCEU never had a chance with the larger studio system of WB. Too much interference, too many overlords changing, no singular direction or story, wanting to speed run what Marvel did to chase the money.
The DCEU was almost dead on arrival, hoping that the names of Superman and Batman would be enough to get them to Endgame levels without building up to it.
Batman and superman are big enough names to rival marvel yes. But warner bros doesn't realize is that just because man of steel was a success was because it was a new superman movie after superman returns. Alot of people say zack snyder made his dc movies alot of money than other dceu projects. But like I said about man of steel it was one of the few superman movies so of course people will watch it. Batman vs superman was considered a success because it was a new batman and the world's finest meeting in live action
That is perfect analogy when you used catching lightning in a bottle cause what are the odds that not even a single cast member fall into any controversy from mcu while in dc one after another all celebrity faced some issue even the creators of film went through problems and we can see that in new Marvel we have been getting bad reviews as well as celebrity and studio are facing struggles
@@nemesisprime4501 I disagree that the movies were a success.
Yes they made profit but neither Man of Steel or Batman v Superman crack a billion dollars which I’m sure the studio would have been expecting.
At the time the movie industry was fairly buoyant with the success of Avengers, Iron Man 3, Jurassic World, Fast & Furious, other Disney projects etc.
I believe that WB expected Man of Steel and definitely Batman v Superman to hit a billion, and when they didn’t they started interfering more and threw Zac Snyder under the bus.
@@chrisxx5583that is another problem. Was how warner bros let snyder take control over the justice league characters
One of the larger problems was that DC tried to go dark. Marvel books were mostly seen to be the darker more gritty of the two big publishers. But after RDJ made it popular to be sarcastic and goofy Marvel went in that direction to maximize sales. DC saw this and thought that going in the opposite direction would set them apart. It did, but not in the way they thought it would. They went so dark it essentially sucked any fun out of the movies. Thats why the two that didnt try to go completely dark (Wonder Woman 1 and Aquaman 1) did quite well on their own. They lost the fun by trying to be opposite Marvel and it didnt pay off at all. Because each new movie just kept getting darker and darker rather than being enjoyable.
To be fair, the reshoots for the Snyder Cut might _not_ have been much at all, they just were all excessively long slow-mo scenes and the budget went to the visual effects teams. Like, 20 minutes of extra footage, but 45 minutes of added runtime 😂
Yeah, ima be honest, its about on par with Josstice League but if I had to pick, I would much rather watch Whedon's cut because it'll be over a hell of a lot quicker.
Yeah no. It's light years better than Whedons cut.
There were no reshoots. There were only 2 additional shots. Which were the knightmare scene and the Martian manhunter scenes. The rest is the footage Snyder shot back in 2016.
Knew 90% of these controversies, good to have it all in one video.
I do think an argument for James Gunn announcement, if it was his idea, it works because no one watched these movies and it doesn't force James Gunn to use any of them.
If this was WB's idea. They were definitely foolish.
If snyder had been in charge of this video, there would have been a ton of slo-mo and and 4 hours longer.
You are correct, WB did mess up giving Snyder any work; but snyder messed up plenty in there as well. He could have learned a new trick or 2, but he just had to be his pretentious, over ambitious self.
Thank you, Benny. I just am still upset that they fired Cavill blaming him for scripts they green lighted.
I think the only thing you missed us the accusations against Joss Weadon by Ray Fisher, Gal Gadot and the Buffy cast. Definitely did not help WB look good when they were protecting him
I'm still pissed on how people treated Afleck.
He nailed being Bruce and Batman and people were giving him soooo much shit before even seeing him do the role. Hell I thought he'd be good simply for having the chin for it.
He will forever be my favorite Batman movie wise and frustrated he never got a proper run.
I agree,not really an Afleck fan but give credit where credit is due. He played a good older Batman. If they would have had the League meet and form when they were still relatively young as in the comics to set the tone for the big Bad.
@@lbc1628he kind does feel like they're trying to ripoff Tony Stark.
My friend sent me a poll on the best Batman, bale was the highest with 60+% while batfleck and Patterson were at 15% and 12%. I said to him bales is only considered the best batman cause of the TDK trilogy I would argue his batman wasn’t even the highlight it was joker or bane mainly the villains. With Batfleck in BVS he was the star of thr movie in the theatrical cut superman had a certain amount of lines while batfleck was the main attraction.
Not saying bale is bad by any means he was a good Bruce Wayne was even a good Batman in begins but in the sequels he was definitely overshadowed by the villains.
That’s just my opinion.
I agree he’s my favorite like action Batman
He’s the best Batman
I think the best thing about Black Adam was them snagging Pierce Brosnan as Dr. Fate.
By the end of the movie, though, you just KNOW he had it in his contract that he would die (guessing at his age he didn't want to be tied up in a multi movie deal, as if that would happen)
The DCEU was a disaster and we all saw the writing on the wall when they rushed their expanded universe by trying to play catch up to Marvel with the Justice League. This was my thought process in high school when it started and it was all but confirmed the last year LOL
Blue Beetle was too safe. It was essentially Venom and Iron man combined. They could've really made Blue Beetle standout like his animated counterparts have. The scarab being a blessing and a curse. What happens to a guy who really treasures being with his family, and now he can't because this device may hurt or even kill them. Or what about that no kill rule? What if Jaime had the no kill rule, but the scarab didn't?
It started with Superman killing someone. And instead of having a second film where he could show remorse, we show him and Batman and Wonder Woman as mass murderers the entire franchise
Superman kills in his first movie, and then dies in his second movie. This franchise was always doomed.
Superman didnt just kill Zod, he leveled smallville fighting them and then instead of, say, punching through their ship like he did with the world engine and throwing it in space, he lets it crash through Metropolis like a dozen 9/11s which made Zack Snyder retroactively say those buildings were uninhabited. In reality, Superman likely killed thousands AT LEAST and because of his sloppiness, let the Kryptonians kill a lot more.
It's all because of edgy Zack Snyder.. he ruins the dceu.. still don't know why so much people defend him
He did not level Smallville. Thats a lie.
Snyder isn't edgy. Yall are just pearl Clutchers. Wb fucked over their films trying to appease yall.
Please...s'il vous plait. Keep this channel on. I know i'll miss his laugh.
Once again..much support to Benny's wife...his brother and all his close ones.
❤B.
THANK YOU! Ben Affleck was my favorite Batman. He played a fantastic older, kind of angrier Batman. He killed it. I think (not really my strong suit) Nathan Fillion should've been Hal Jordan. He's got that personality and he's voiced Hal on several occasions. Am I crazy to think this?
Can we please get a Kyle Rainer movie please? Preferably, done well this time.
Nathan Fillion is a perfect Hal Jordan. My definite pick for John Stewart is Michael Jai White.
A younger Clancy Brown would have been a great Guy Gardner, IMO.
If they could get Keanu Reeves to look more like he did in the 1st Matrix, I would want him as Kyle Reyner. OtherWise, for Kyle, I honestly don't know who would be a perfect pick to play him. Jared Leto would probably have been just OK, if he had never have played Joker and gotten the reputation he now has. I kinda wonder what Brenton Thwaites would look like in the role. Maybe Josh Peck could pull it off. IRDK who would be great as Kyle Reyner, TBH.
Nathan Fillion even voiced Hal Jordan in several DC animated movies
Glad to see I'm not the only person who'd rate Shazam over Aquaman
I was done with the DCEU the moment I saw that version of Joker... like wtf was that...
Looking at what's going on in Palestine right now, there's a reason Gal Godot's IDF support got the scrutiny.
I agree with Benny about how the DCU announcement should have been handled. Telling us that James Gunn and Peter Safran would be handling the new DCU is exciting news enough, I mean imagine if we got both the Gods&Monsters slate and the casting announcements for Superman:Legacy at SDCC24 or maybe even DC Fandome
If you think about it, the casting for the Trinity and Aquaman was pretty spot on at face value. Henry Cavill is the humble nerd. Ben Affleck the depressed addict (Batman is Bruce’s addiction). Gal Gadot the out of touch soldier. Jason Momoa, a man of land and sea given his heritage, his college studies, and his work to clean up the oceans.
What happened to the dcu?
Well I don't know
They hired Zack Snyder for some reason
The man who doesn't understand characters that he's making movies about
And it's all downhill from there
Oh and lack of planning of course
he still in the same film school as micheal bay
But Snyder did good movies and compare it with The Flash is not that dark flavor
@@yarc9 oh man that shot of Superman in a church
I laughed out loud when I saw that for the first time
Like Jesus Christ
@@k92ful What's the problem with artist direction or symbolism, you want the pervert whedon instead?
@@armyofuno8196 he's symbolism is super surface level at best
All I want is good movies, with great characters and sensibilie plots
A Hawkman trilogy or series would be awesome. Hawkman's multiple lifetime could be a nice series like Highlander with segments in time.
Every video I watch from Comicstorian is just great, super self aware in the best way with exellent takes with evidence for every point made. Ive been watching since I was a kid and I've grown up with this channel, thank you for everything you do for the comic/manga community
Wrong. The only people that say Jared's Joker was the GOAT are Snyder fans. No legit being for real. I've seen tweets from pro Snyder Twitter accounts that say Jared Leto's Joker is head and shoulders above Heath and Jack's Joker.
The only time that Leto's Joker was actually redeemed was at the end of his Justice League. He didn't look like a drugged up, green haired slicked back, crazy fool that WB made him. WB turned him into a fool, not Snyder. He made him better. We will see more of his better version though in the future though in JL 2 and 3. Once this Superman movie finishes the DCU off from it's debt.
In my opinion I’d say there were only 4 great DCEU films, that being Wonder Woman, Aquaman, The Suicide Squad, and Shazam
A couple corrections:
-Zack Snyder didn't want to make BvS, he originally wanted to make MoS2, but WB convinced him to make BvS instead, still the entire story for that movie is his alone
-WB did want Henry Cavill to continue playing Superman, it was him turning down appereances left and right that soured the relationship with the studio, originally WB did call him to shoot the Shazam cameo as stated by director David Sandberg, but he turned them down last minute which forced Sandberg to shoot the scene with a body double
-WB also wanted Ben Affleck to continue playing Batman, they didn't cancel his solo movie, he was the one who quit on his own bc his divorce process hit him at the same time as his relapsing alcoholism and that was too much for him to handle, originally he was gonna be the Batman in Flash and Batgirl was gonna have him as a mentor, but it was all changed to Keaton when Ben quit
-Walter Hamada only joined DC in 2018, way after the whole Josstice League fiasco, and he inherited most of the terrible projects from the last management (WW84, Birds of Prey, Flash), the only movies that he was directly responsible for were Blue Beetle, Aquaman 2 and Shazam 2
-Most of Ezra Miller's alleged crimes have been disproven over time, the headlines and clickbait media campaign against them made people at large think of them as a creep, but truth is they have no actual criminal charges, only a couple misdemeanors
-The percentage of bots behind the RTSC and RTSV campaign was much lower than stated in the video, it was actually around 30-40%. And a fun fact about this is that the investigation traced down this bot company all the way back to Zack Snyder himself, which means he was financing the campaign with his own money even hiring key figures who acted as figureheads of the movement like most famous Fiona Zheng on Twitter, these major lead figures of the campaign would later completely disappear from the internet once the Snyder Cut was released, solidifying the conclusions from the investigations saying that she along others were paid social media agitators hired by Snyder himself
-There were actually THREE different investigations for the Ray Fisher controversy, which he rejected to participate in the first 2, only collaborations with the third one, even going as far as publicly praising WB for it. But once the third investigation yet again found no evidence of racism and discrimination Fisher went immediatly back to calling WB execs racists once again, promising to release evidence to the public with the caption "more soon", this was 3 years ago and he has yet to release a single piece of evidence that he promised. This is why most people have moved on from supporting him to call him a liar on his social media
-Henry Cavill's appereance in Black Adam was not supposed to happen bc the reboot had already been decided by new WBD owner David Zaslav. What happened was, after Batgirl's cancellation, DC Films CEO Walter Hamada announced his departure from DC, which proned Zaslav to appoint WB executives Michael DeLuca and Pamela Abdy as temporary CEOs of DC Films. They were the ones who greenlit The Rock's demand to shoot the Superman cameo with Henry Cavill actually showing his face, previously to this the Superman cameo was still in the movie, it was just faceless bc of Henry's shaky relationship with Hamada. This backhanded move from the executives gave fans false hope of Henry returning to the role, to which James Gunn had to come out and announce that wasn't gonna happen bc of the reboot, which made a lot of the fanbase put the blame on him for humilliating Henry by supposedly rehiring him only to fire him immediatly after, when the truth was Henry had never been rehired whatsoever, his contract was never renewed and they had no plans to use his Superman anymore.
Sources?
Sorry if my sources comment looks mean. I’ve been writing an essay about my personal journey w comics and DC’s adaptations. I’ve been following lots for the last 10 years but I’m open to reading new stuff to see if my perception is j biased or unpopular
Complete nonsense and lies.
Yeah this guy just posted absolute bull. He made all this up. He must be one of DC’s paid actors.
@@TheFoolishable I didnt make any of this up, all of this is verifyiable on the internet, I can't post sources bc youtube doesnt allow links, but you can google all of this, from Snyder's declarations of wanting to make MoS2 first, to David Sandberg's instagram story revealing he did call Henry for Shazam, to the investigations involving Ray Fisher. Idk why you call me a DC paid actor when my entire post is literally meant to bash DC and WB for their terrible management and relations with their talents.
Zach Snyder in his mind and his mind alone believes he is at the same caliber as Scorcese, Nolan, or Aronovsky (sorry for my spelling) but he is not. He tried to make Justice League into some artistic vision, but its not the right material for that. Clashing styles, no cohesive vision.
Dang seeing this man in person again is crazy I was in middle school with my best friend who showed me this channel he was the biggest Superman fan and I couldn’t blame him he made me rethink in my early childhood how dope of a character Superman and so many others are in the comic panel entry’s and story arcs… I’m 26 now I ets out the army and it’s been a heck of a ride with phase 1-4 and dceu all and all I can say wb should do better for dc fans just that simple. Anyways good to see you comicstorian, my fav story will always be the old man Logan from you bub happy new year!
I laughed so hard when I read the title then saw the duration lmaoo it really needs the time
I like all the actors put in for DCEU. I just hate Snyder’s utter disregard for everything that made the characters what they are. Why do people think you have to change every character to make it work for audiences?
Benny, my friend you got wrong on BvS, Zack himself told in cinema con when Snyder cut was release that it was WB who want to do BvS cause MCU just released Civil War and WB want to compete with that. Zack had plan to do Man of Steel 2 with brainiac but due to WB pressure he changes his plan.
You guys deserve 1 billion views per video! Also, I didn't know you are a veteran, respect man thank you for your service. I'm gonna try that hot sauce for sure!
Things I have taken away from this video:
We need to get Benny on hot ones.
I think MOS was a good start but then BvS happened and I don't care who was in charge or directing, the movie failed and everything afterwards was varying degrees of bad/good.
Yeah the dceu was technically a downward spiral from the very beginning and just proves my point that Warner bros just had no idea what the hell they were doing with this franchise from the start, which is sad because the dceu could’ve worked if these corporate overlords didn’t ruin everything with and try to take control of this universe without letting these directors and writers do the movie they wanted to do with no corporate interference whatsoever at least in my opinion.
Dceu shouldve ran their own race instead of trying to catch up to marvels success smfh, they have all their characters from A to Z where as marvel had to buy back the rights to the xmen, F4 and deadpool back from Fox to keep the mcu going.
My thoughts on the DCEU:
1. Man of Steel (2013): The movie was a little too dark and I didn't like that Superman killed someone on screen. The most memorable moment of that movie was Jonathan Kent telling Clark that maybe he should have let the kids die. I think I reference that moment once a week during casual conversation. I actually thought that his relationship with his father (who wanted him to hide who he was) could have been the heart of the movie, but they killed him in the stupidest way possible and I was just disappointed.
2. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016): I went to the theater opening night wearing a Superman shirt. I had so many discussions with friends about how Batman was going to put on a Kyptonite suit and instead it was just a spear and a Kyptonite smoke bomb. Lex was terrible. I think I was spoiled by Smallville and the animated series. He peed in a jar...gross. And Superman was so depressed in this movie and Batman was murdering people with guns. Still, Batman was the best part of the movie.
3. Suicide Squad (2016): I'm in the minority here, but I liked this movie. I've made a lot of Harley Quinn and Joker videos inspired by this movie. I really liked Harley Quinn and Deadshot. The plot was dumb but I had no previous connection with the suicide squad. I think that if they had appeared as villains in other movies first, it would have made the movie better.
4. Wonder Woman (2017): I loved it. I don’t really have any notes except that they should have cut out the CGI fight. The old guy could still be Aries, but he had nothing to do with the war. And this should have been the last time we saw Steve Trevor.
5. Justice League (2017): Didn't like it. Can't even remember the movie.
6. Aquaman (2018): Loved it. I thought Jason was great. And I didn't take the movie too seriously.
7. Shazam! (2019): Loved it. Thought it was great, though I didn't like that everyone got powers.
8. Birds of Prey (2020) also known as "Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn): It was okay. I didn’t hate it. Harley Quinn was the best part.
9. Wonder Woman 1984 (2020): Mixed feelings. I hated that they brought Steve back. Cheeta was cool and I liked the villain.
10. The Suicide Squad (2021): It was good. I kinda preferred the other one but I'm not really a fan of a lot of blood and I didn’t like that polka-dot man died.
11. Black Adam (2022): Good. Could have been better.
12. The Flash (2022): I haven't watched it completely. All the stuff with Ezra made me decide not to watch it in theaters. I didn't want the DCEU to keep him.
I haven't seen any of the other movies yet.
Other controversies:
Will Smith Oscar slap.
The Joss Whedon allegations.
The unreleased Batgirl film
I think an important…ish note, is while it wouldn’t have helped dramatically. A few of those movies came out on HBO Max at the same time as the theatrical cut so that cut into the box office. WW84 and The Suicide Squad.
Zack was never that guy at best he should have just done man of steel
I think a lot of this story gets told with revisionist history if I remember correctly at the time WB wanted Nolan to do Man of Steel but he didn't want to do any more superhero movies after the Batman Trilogy so he is the one that recommended Snyder for the job. Then when it comes to bvs I believe the studio wanted to put Batman and Wonder Woman in there because they wanted to compete with Civil War which was also releasing that same summer. And then Snyder was like well okay and he even asked Nolan if it was a good idea because he knew it would require some heavy lifting on the story end and that you really couldn't just do a half-assed Batman / Wonder Woman cameo. But then the studio handicap someone again by saying deliver a short version that we can have multiple screenings of. Then that theatrical cut of bvs combined with a fan backlash that had been building since Superman snapshots neck and the rise of clickbait superhero comic book movie news sites let us to all the craziness and drama that played out after into the suicide squad re-edits and the Justice League Fiasco
That is an excellent summary of the situation at that point.
Naw it was Snyders idea to put Batman in there
@@onifrancis1566
Nope. It was WB.
Dude I honestly love your commentary. This is helping with my depression and on the first day I was able to get to work and get some work done thanks for creating this. This was the first day I did not want to unalive myself and watching this took my mind off life thanks!
Rest In Peace Benny, we miss you.
Thank you for this video, Benny. There are a couple things I would like to add to the history.
1. I heard that another plan for the DCEU leading up to Justice League was a Man of Steel sequel (just focussing on Superman), and a Dark Knight Returns Adaptation, which would lead to Justice League.
2. Justice League Mortal, the cancelled script from 2007, was also set to kick off a universe, because they intended to create spin off movies focussing on the heroes. They also wanted that from the Matt Damon Green Arrow movie.
I'd love to hear what your plan for a DC Cinematic Universe is, and what you would've done with the DCEU (something I plan on doing soon). Also, I'd love to hear you talk about the cancelled movies, and where they could've gone in regards to storylines.
Also, I'd note that DC is about humanizing the heroes, while Marvel is about turning men and women into gods.
Overall, this is a great video, and I appreciate you guys endlessly.
"Also, I'd note that DC is about humanizing the heroes, while Marvel is about turning men and women into gods." I have the exact opposite impression. At least in comics DC always goes to represent its heroes to a god level, to give you an example, both Marvel and DC have speedsters, the more famous one in Marvel is Quicksilver, but Quicksilver stories aren't really about how fast he is, are about the fact he is a mutant (or not) or about his adventures with the avengers or with his sister. In the other hand, Flash, he is so fast he can travel thru time or vibrate thru alternatives realities, he is basically the god of speed, he is the original conection to the speedforce, the manifestation of the concept of speed from which all the speedsters in DC draw their powers and outrunned the black racer, the deity who represent death to the new gods. Flash is a god, the personification itself of the concept of movement in the DC universe, Quicksilver is just a guy who can run really really fast.
The merger didn’t help either with discovery. With the cancellation of batgirl
The DCEU is Over.
I still like to Hire those DCEU/ArrowVerse Actors in these DC Movies I want to Make.
- Superman vs. The Elite.
- Superman: Unbound.
- All-Star Superman.
- Superman/Batman: Public Enemies & Apocalypse.
- Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths & Doom.
I like to Make all these DC Animated-Movies to DC Live-action Movies. These aren’t Connected to DCEU.
The moment they hired Snyder to direct Man of Steel they doomed the entire DCEU. It was clear the studio didn't agree with what he was going for, and tried to course correct. So they were constantly at odds. Snyder's tone and vision was so limiting that it was a terrible platform to build an entire cinematic universe off of. It feels like an Elseworlds story. Kind of boring and one note.
Exactly, the first Time i heard there will be another Superman Movie, i was excited and a Part of me was scared for Marvel and thought it could be over for them. Then i found out Zack Snyder was the Director and suddenly i felt scarred for DC and damn was i right about that. I knew that Guy couldn't make a good Superman Movie.
I guess no one watches the Watchmen. If you didn’t know what kind of Sniderverse we were going to get, you should have watched his 2009 movie.
When it came to the DCEU it was drama literally all the time. Hopefully going forward this “universe” will serve as a cautionary tale.
Just a small thought experiment, if and this is a big if the WB suits were dead set on synder doing his thing pre BVS they should have sat him down and made plans for after the Justice Leave Trilogy...have someone waiting in the wings (James Gunn etc) to takeover once Synder got bored from making Batman a homicidal maniac or smt...tbh I don't hate the synderverse in it's entirety, but as a whole it's like a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces. Some characterisation is interesting like the stuff with cyborg, wonder woman etc. But I could just never buy Batfleck going from saving a child in the rubble to mowing down crooks no second thought. If anyone's familiar with the "batman gets r_ped in prison" quote Zack gave I think that's says a lot of his view of the characters. Good luck to James Gunn, Take care everyone
And you summed up the problem with 2023- if the people behind the movies don’t care then why should the audience. I saw Shazam simple because I hoped it was as fun as the first. Felt it was to a point.
I refuse to believe “ hero fatigue” any more than horror fatigue. I think it’s just poor storytelling getting results poor storytelling gets.
Great video! This is my first visit to your channel and I really enjoyed it. Love your passion and analysis. It seems like all the problems were baked in from the beginning. WB picked a director to kickoff things off who was likely to polarize the audience. Like you said, every criticism of his DCEU movies was a criticism raised for his earlier movies: dark tone, a lot of slow motion, emphasis on visuals, and problems with the stories. WB also sent mixed messages about who was in charge of the DCEU. Snyder was given permission to start building the universe but no real authority. Finally, WB had all it's big characters so they didn't work as hard as Marvel. The MCU launched without their biggest characters (Spider-Man or the X-Men), and with only a limited ability to use the Hulk. Marvel felt the need to craft every movie carefully, and to fix any problems immediately. They also realized the only way to sell their movies was an overarching storyline and it worked. Every MCU movie during the Infinity Saga was must see. The DCEU never committed to that, and, surprise, people didn't see a reason to go to movies about characters they never heard of.
Western males are an issue. DCEU is a look into the deep psychology of why.
Poor Henry is the only one that didn't do anything wrong and they fucked him the most 😂😭😭
The DCEU tried to hard to be the opposite of Marvel they missed the mark of where they should have been. Alot of the earlier movies felt like a first draft. We never wanted them to be like Marvel other then successful, profitable and watchable.
To this day I cannot understand why they thought it'd be great idea to start with death of superman, teasing for Injustice, without ever doing a straight faced justice league. Absolutely baffling.
RIP Comicstorian 💗 You inspired a passion and appreciation for comics in me and many many others.
I mean the cynical deletion of the Batgirl movie after it was made didn't help but yeah it has been in a steady decline since Aquaman but I for one cannot wait for the gunn era the Slate look very interesting to me and can especially not wait for Creature Commandos & Supergirl: World of Tomorrow.
1 year from a fresh start for the DCU can't wait 😊
Zack Snyder only makes movies for himself.
Like every other filmmaker.
@@thewitcherking937nah you can’t watch DP3 and still think that way
@chrisszostek6700 sure some directors go for more populist cinema. But generally directors make the movies for themselves.
Zach Snyder isn't solely to blame as the WB Studios is / was a mess.
However, Army of the Dead and Rebel Moon proved, the biggest problem with the DCEU is the fact that they put at the helm a director that only cares about the "Visual" part of "Visual Storytelling and has no real clue about how to world build or develop compelling character arcs or write interesting stories.
Seriously, a 4+ hour cut of JL only marginally improved the hacked Josstice League!
So just want to make a correction. Love the video. By the way, while Zack Snyder probably had input in the script. From what I understand, Man of steel was primarily a brainchild of Jonathan Nolan which is Christopher Nolan's brother. Christopher Nolan had production in it and was written itself by David S Goyer. Essentially, as you said, they couldn't have the Batman team to make a cinematic universe. So goyer had a completely separate idea of a Superman film which he pitched to Nolan. Who then said you know what while I can't allow my Batman in, how about I produce the Superman film and my brother will write it.
I also want to make a note that the fact that there was a confliction between the public name and the internal name which eventually became the public name is a perfect allegory and summary of what this whole failed cinematic universe was. 😆
I don’t think Jonathan Nolan had anything to do with the movie. Goyer and Christopher Nolan had writer’s block on Rises and started brainstorming on what their version of a new Superman movie would be.
"So just want to make a correction."
And then you proceed to write complete nonsense. Johnathan Nolan had nothing to do with Man of Steel other than briefly being considered for director. Christopher Nolan didn't write anything for Man of Steel. The entire thing started when WB put it out there that they wanted to do a new Superman movie so David Goyer asked Christopher Nolan if he can vouch for him when he did his pitch with WB. Because of that, Goyer was given the job, he wrote the script then Zack Snyder was picked by Christopher Nolan.
@@NomadFlow well, what you wrote is true. Jonathan Nolan does have writing credits for the film and Christopher Nolan did produce the film and is one of the reasons why they did press tours for the film itself. That's honestly, probably partially why that film is so uneven and doesn't quite match any of the stuff that was exclusively Zack Snyder's because there are a bunch of nolanisms in Man of steel all that don't exist anywhere else.
@@jordanwhite352 "Jonathan Nolan does have writing credits for the film"
Jonathan Nolan has no such credit for Man of Steel. Look up the credits.
"because there are a bunch of nolanisms in Man of steel all that don't exist anywhere else."
I'm curious to know what you think those are because Christopher Nolan didn't do any writing other than help David Goyer get picked by WB. Pretty much everything in that script is pure Goyer which is what holds the film back. Christopher Nolan got a "Story by" credit simply because he supported Goyer's pitch to WB.
1. Respect DC comics. Atleast use them as a guide. It is difficult to completely adopt literary characters yes. But, atleast keep the core of the character. Superman is not about or not only about a Man coming to terms with his Alien Heritage. Its mainly about a Hero who inspires Hope.
2. Have a good Story. Point 1 is about Chracter design. Point 2 is about the core of the movie, a good story. It need not be complicated. Or even have a lot action. Just a story ehich makes sense.
3. Have a good screenplay. Make it not boring or choppy.
Thats it.
All of their problems began when they chose Zack Snyder because he doesn't respect or understand the characters of DC.
They wouldn't have had to course correct if they started on the right course.
Fax man
Why does everyone blame Snyder uniquely? As if he were the core issue when he wasnt. It was A LOT of the corporate meddling and interference with an original storyline. It feels immature and uneducated to put it all on him.
@@sdcard7129there absolutely were a lot of incredibly poor decisions made on an administrative level from WB, however Snyder really is not that great of a director especially after that abortion of a Star Wars movie Rebel Moon. He has the mentality of a 14 year old that thinks edginess equates to maturity and depth and says as much when he talks about the characters he's supposed to be creating films for. While I dont think hes a good director and kinda got lucky with 300 and Watchmen, and WB made plenty of poor decisions, he's kind of made a target out of himself by 1) making objectively bad movies, and 2) being outspoken about his lack of respect for any source material that doesn't align with what he thinks "superheroes" should be which is basically what The Boys is but done well. There's a lot more I could say about specific directorial decisions he's made that I think are bad, pretentious, or self-indulgent but thats kind of another conversation altogether
@@sdcard7129Yeah, WB was the biggest villain in this disaster, but Snyder wasn't the best choice from the get-go. The man can depict a stunning scene, but he can't tell a compelling story to save his life.
Stop gate keeping, You realize a lot long time DC Fans like Zack Snyder’s take so does that mean they don’t respect the characters
I swear when benny does his annoyed laugh i hear his joker laugh
the snyderverse was garbage i'm glad that it's over
For the DCU Gunn needs to make sure his first two movies are great. Superman and Batman need to set the tone. If they’re bad then revenue will continue like aqua man 2
i do hope that James Gunn keeps Blue Beetle in canon it was easily one of my favourite DCEU movies as well so it seems kinda unfair to just get one movie and wrap the entire characters story
I think Gunn all ready said Blue Beatle is in his cinematic universe. It would not be fair to drop this since it was the new start of the DC Universe as it was after Zaslav put Batgirl on Ice and that was the first to be in the new universe as it was
Blue beetle is the first DCU movie
If WB would take everything they learned from the faults and successes of dceu and reboot the franchise I think they would be successful
Thank you Benny for saying that about Hawkman he was the ONLY good part about Black Adam.
At its core, I think the biggest problem the DCEU had was they didn't understand what steps to take to make a good cinematic universe. There's a lot of issues with the DCEU, but I think they can all stem to people lacking passion for the projects, micro-managing to try and draw success, not understanding why or how certain projects succeeded, and pivoting too quickly the second something didn't work perfectly (which again speaks to a lack of faith in their filmmakers and overarching vision)
On the exact opposite, I can never remember like the movies I love, but I always remember the movies I hated
So unpopular take but I really don’t mind Green Lantern 🤷🏻♂️
Now it’s not a great movie by no means and it’s very “comic bookish” but I think that’s what kinda makes it good!
It’s a decent enough movie to watch with your younger kids, it has some decent fight scenes, and has a few really funny lines!
Not as trash as everyone try’s to say imo
Agreed
I think ultimately Snyder was the wrong man to go for. Liked his mature vision but it didn’t need to be with a brooding Superman and killer Batman. People saying he was rushed forget his plan was only a five movie saga. We should’ve got a full 12-15 movies fleshing out all 6-7 members of the JL with a final JL movie showing the completion of Batman’s ascension from Frank Miller’s broken Dark Knight and Superman’s descent into Darkseid’s right hand man. How are we supposed to feel the gravity of an evil Superman if we don’t even see him be Superman in the hopeful sense in the first place?
Snyder is a pretentious hack, but goddamn did the WB suits fuck up. Trying to throw him under the bus when it was their decision to hire him, especially at a time like that...
Also I just want to say I think black Adam would’ve been better if the rock didn’t rewrite the character to be a hero
In the comics black Adam killed his son for the power
He boldly took over and ruled his country
The entire time I was waiting for him to tell everyone
I’m not a hero I killed my son! Because I’m the hero the world needed
But no I have believe he’s this hallow because he failed to save his son?? It didn’t match at all
And small note I was waiting so long for hawkman to humble Adam with his nth metal mace and have a cool moment where rock is like
………..oh sh&t….. that thing can hurt me
But I guess they didn’t do there homework or the rock really just wanted to have a movie about his invincible oc
Otherwise it was a decent movie at best
Sorry to keep adding comments but to follow up on your Zack Snyder's Justice League, which I'm so happy you're talking about. It's still aggravates me and to me it's the worst sin that Warner Brothers ever did of feeding into the fans. Normally I'm one for trying to do things the fans like, but the fact that dry agree that there was like a super rough assembly cut that was unfinished and people thinking that there was somehow a full-on cut and then Warner Brothers being like. Yeah, let's make their dreams come true. Not only I think ruined it for the DCEU. It also ruined a lot of stuff in Warner Brothers and Hollywood in general because now everyone is demanding alternate edits like it's a video game and they can improve it with DLC. They even just tried to artificially do this with rebel Moon. And it just pisses me off, particularly because that you could tell especially from the early concept art and stuff. This is that what they put on HBO Max would have not been what Zack Snyder would have put out if it actually went to theaters. It should be obvious in the fact that almost no movie is 4 hours long except for maybe lower the rings, but that took a lot over time for people to agree with that and people still make fun of it and claim for how long it is. But that and there was things where you could tell they're supposed to be one thing, but because they saw how poorly it was received in the Joss wheaten one, it's changed into something else. So yeah, the Snyder cut is literally a post-mortem fantasy of what the film would have been instead of what the film actually would have been. And to me it like has now warped how people think of films and Hollywood productions and combine that with the overworked. CGI teams have made everything even worse.
I feel for Cavill. Recently he was let go from the Witcher. The directors, producers, and writers were irritated by Cavill being a lore nerd who loved both the games and books. Apparently they were deadest on whatever nonsense story they wanted to tell but Cavill kept trying to keep it closer to the source material. They got fed up with their main most popular actor being a super fan of the franchise project he's the face of. Just a tragedy the people we have in creative power
Just wanted to comment on the Snyder Bots thing. I was nearly kicked off of Twitter because my account was "suspicious" because I normally don't use Twitter much, and I almost never post on Twitter, but I did during both the release and restore movements. Because of that, I was flagged as an artificial account and had to verify with them that I was real. It was a whole headache. So I can't believe that "90% was fake" because I'm 1 on that 90% that's supposed to be fake and I've met too many people from too many different backgrounds and general taste, that all supported the movement and made tons of posts and hashtags. That's all......oh and the reason the box office numbers nose dived so hard is because those of us who enjoy the early DCEU (you know....the people that don't exist) stopped paying to see them. The last 2 times I cared about a DCEU movie coming out was when Justice League was coming out, and when Zack Snyder's Justice League was announced. I hope Gunn can make us care again, but if he goes the MCU route, I doubt it
Man of Steel was good but it could've been better, Batman vs Superman was also good but I think it should've just been a Batman solo movie, Aquaman was great, Zack Snyder Justice League was great, DCEU has been in a mess since they released the Joss Justice League.
Imagine this all being apart of the Mouse's plan to end the DCEU
The DCEU should have done Black Addam vs. Peacemaker aka
The Rock vs. John Cena 😆
Didn’t Christopher Nolan write Man is Steel? Zack Snyder himself said that Christopher Nolan wrote it
I don’t think that’s correct.
I thought him and his brother pulled out early and just stayed as producers
@@chrisxx5583 I dont know. I just saw that in a video about him going over all his movies he said that Nolan called him and offered the script. I could be wrong, idk
And Zack Snyder’s brother has been dead for a long time
@@StrykerPrimeProductions I meant Christopher Nolan’s brother.
@@chrisxx5583 Ohhhhh
@@chrisxx5583 Chris Nolan still wrote story with David Goyer. He is given a story credit with Goyer on man of steel.
I was there. I was there for the whole DCU. I went to the theater to see mostly all the movies, and I’ve always been more of a Marvel fan tbh. But through all of that, I say… at least they tried. Imagine not having any DC movies, how boring my life would have been. The countless hours I spent watching RUclips videos about DC movies, podcast, etc. It was perfect, never really could catch up to the hype of Marvels Avengers movie hype (heck not even Marvel can catch up to old Marvels Avengers movie hype tbh), but at least it those movies got me feeling something. Rather than being stuck at home nerd. I felt safe going out bring a nerd, walked around movie theaters with a smile on my face no fear of being made fun of. I have depression, and tbh when I get all hyped for a movie about something nerdy, oh man it definitely makes me forget about my sadness. Even got me through toxic work life, co workers making fun of me? Put on my DC podcast and totally forget about my problems. See me walking around smiling. Thank you DC for making those movies.
Writing is creating. Creating a new character is the only way to explore a new idea. Why destroy an established character and recreate it into something new? Lack of creativity.
What happened?? They didn't give zack the keys. Zacks daughter committed suicide and he had to leave his project, and they kicked him to the curb and killed the whole DCEU over it 🤷♂️ not understood why 🤔 js
You forgot to mention that with Man Of Steel, David S Goyer & Christopher Nolan wrote AND Executive Produced that movie which in my opinion, greatly effected the tonality there , over BvS which is a far inferior film. Essentially Snyder was held in check to a degree by Goyer & Nolan if not in daily work in principle since Snyder was doing their work.
But I’m so glad to hear you say that having Batman essentially as the villain in what was the 2nd movie featuring Superman was Snyder’s idea because I heard the interview where he said right out , and I quote “ They(WB) asked me who I wanted as my villain for MOS 2 , I said Batman! “
The Superman movie totally lost me when Superman allowed his dad to die. I checked out to never care again. And in the comics, when Batman messed up Jason Todd, I checked out there also. If you change the character that I invested in, why would I keep watching?
I look at it like this….. if you give a mouse a cookie hes gonna want a glass of milk …. I understand companies arent perfect but why these snyder fans are on twitter throwing threats at wb
Personally I think DC should just focus on their animated movies because those were actually great. Of course some were better than others but it's better than controversy
Next year the new DC starts which is going to be epic
Everything Snyder does is pretentious. All flash and no substance while trying to pretend the storytelling was extremely deep. He doesn’t understand the characters he was making movies about and changed them to fit his likings.
It seems like in the beginning of the DCEU, the 3 main big wigs were Greg Silverman, Toby Emmerich, and Kevin Tsujihara. I don’t know their exact specific titles because in most of the sources I checked it said chairman or president for all 3 and I can’t find a consistent date for when they stepped in, took the lead, or took over. Anyway, you can partially blame Toby and Kevin for not allowing Josstice league to delay cause they wanted to keep their bonuses before the AT&T & Time Warner merge.
With that in mind, I don’t blame the 3 guys for changing all the movies or not course correcting when things were looking bad because anytime we hear “the studio” or “the executives”, we don’t know who they are so all we can do is blame the company as a whole. I say this to make this point : WB (whoever could make shit happen or make demands) should have either: forced Snyder to make man of steel 2 and hire more talent so the movie ends up better, force Snyder to put JL on pause and take the logical route by making the origin movies before putting out JL, or put JL and all future movies on pause so they can make a better plan and roadmap after the bad reception of BvS and SS.
Because even though they are responsible for BvS initial bad reception, SS bad reception, and finale changes to Wonder Woman, they could’ve made a comeback.
Finally, the only conclusion I am left with is that WB dug themselves into a ditch and never managed to get out, because really if I’m being genuine, they were done after BvS, no chance of recovery.
And another thing, they still made plenty of bonehead decisions after Josstice league like taking Black Adam out of Shazam even with both characters not being as well known, having no plan or big movie event after justice league (partially blamed on Walter Hamada), Toby and WB still being on Snyder’s ass with the snyder cut which may have been because he and them were worried it would make fans like snyder more and the company less which has been speculated is the reason why the snyder cut was sort of leaked a week early on hbo max, greenlighting birds of prey (the allure of SS was long gone, there wasn’t demands for a sequel or spin off, and any real birds of prey fans would have been turned off) and making it R rated (I think this was an unnecessary decision because remember executives wanted SS to be more like Deadpool but I mean they didn’t make SS R rated so why did they do it for birds of prey?), allowing the birds of prey marketing and movie to trash their male audience, not taking the Disney+ approach of putting their new movies on streaming and just charging $30 thus WW84 and TSS flopped, letting Walter Hamada try and reboot the entire franchise with the flash which was in conjunction with the batgirl movie that David Zaslav, his boss, was responsible for cancelling, their never ending hate boner for Henry Cavill and the idea of another Superman movie like I don’t think we will ever know why all the hate. And finally, agreeing to bring Henry Cavill back (they included him in Black Adam and filmed an ending for the flash that included him) only to give the franchise off to James Gunn and Peter Safran before even checking to see if they wanted the same thing and letting James announce a reboot when there was still FOUR more movies left in the DCEU.
There’s tons of other factors but I just wanted to focus on WB’s mistakes. This took a while to write but I just recapped all of it. WB didn’t just fumble the ball, they took it all the way to the other end zone
When you look up “Incompetence” you’ll see WB right there as an example. No lie.
In the end, this reboot has been needed for a while and can’t wait for a fresh universe
Unfortunately , not everyone is ready for reboot as they’re still hating Gunn and Safran’s overall plans for the new DCU franchise and they’re still hate them for ending the DCEU franchise aka the Snyderverse so much
Next year July 2025 the new Superman movie will start the DCU
@@joey3654 yup can’t wait
After watching the Dailyplanet's Editor go on a rant saying the Monsterverse did what DCEU refused to do (copying Marvel's phase 1 movie order), my world of View Expanded.
Out of all the DCEU movies, though, Aquaman 2 is the (only) one that makes me wanna be a tourist in that universe the most, so it has that going for it. But, yeah, Corporate overlords have been looking so horrible this year in all forms of entertainment, from the DC movies, to the videogame industry.