Caster Semenya on gender fairness in athletics and what being a woman means to her
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2023
- Caster Semenya has never doubted that she was a woman. It wasn’t until her athletics career started to take off that the now two-time Olympic Games gold medallist and a three-time World Athletics Championships gold medallist faced any questions over her gender.
(Subscribe: bit.ly/C4_News_Subscribe)
Called a ‘threat to the sport’ and ‘not woman enough’, she has become the most visible DSD (difference in sex development) athlete today, and found herself at the centre of the debate around the newly drawn line between gender and sport.
In this episode of Ways to Change the World, she tells Krishnan Guru-Murthy about her experiences as an athlete with a difference in sex development, her tumultuous journey to the top of the athletics world, and what being a woman means to her.
Produced by Silvia Maresca
-------
Watch more of our explainer series here - • Coronavirus Explained
Get more news at our site - www.channel4.com/news/
Follow us:
Facebook - / channel4news
Twitter - / channel4news
TikTok - / c4news
Instagram - / channel4news
Males experience 5a-reductase 2. Females do not. Caster has 5a-reductase 2. Thus, he is male.
Semenya has a DSD that only occurs in males. It's caused by an enzyme deficiency, 5-ARD, that occurs in both males & females, but only affects the development of males. If Semenya were female, Semenya's 5-ARD would have had no effect whatsoever on Semenya's development at any phase of life.
Talk Zulu
Thanks. That was well written and very interesting. I have such enormous sympathy for her. She shouldn’t race with women though.
There we go again people trying to correct people who don't live this life saying that we are less is wrong or saying we are not the gender we were born is sick everyone is born different.
It affects the competitiveness of the sport. The actual women are at a disadvantage against a man in women's races. It's simple big fella. Men and women are made different no matter what you think you are. You'd probably beat me in an arm wrestle.
But she's not a man. Never was. She didn't transition from a man to a woman. She was assigned female at birth. She just has a medical condition that produces higher testosterone than average females. She is genetically predisposed to be superior at athletics. Does that mean Usain Bolt shouldn't be allowed to run because he has better genetics for athletics than average men? What's the point of athletics at all then?
Big fella? She's a ciswomen.
Also Michael Phelps had a biological advantage
She's not transgender. plenty of people are born like this and never realise. You have a micropenis yet we're all expected to consider you a man.
Actual women? So what do you say to women with pcos who have a higher testosterone level? Are they "not women" to you? Do you even know women?
@@Hanloss They don't produce nearly as much male hormone as men and they also don't develop the same lung capacities and bone density when they are developing.
Caster is right to say that there is no intersectionality between her (intersex) and trans, that these are two separate things. She was born biologically as she is. She is natural. The others (the trans) are men without sexual disorder who identify with women. I think running them together is as unfair as running trans and women together.
I like how Khrishnan picked up on the contradiction here. Caster is saying that character traits that are stereotypical of males don't define someone as a male (preferences for "male typical" interests and persuits as a child didn't make Caster a boy) and yet Caster is saying that stereotypical traits related to females (being caring and "mothering", whatever that means) is how Caster justifies calling themself a "woman".
It is double speak, like in Orwell's novel "1984"
He is lying
does Caster has uterus and menses? I doubt, so HE IS NOT A WOMAN. period. He has X and Y chromosomes, this is what justifies him as MAN
cheats
This world is insane...
More like the Western world is going insane not the whole world don't lump us in you're insanity.
The “World“ is insane because she was born a woman with a little bit different mutations and this is been going on for hundreds of years, it’s just now that we have the ability to test for it. Get a clue, please.
true, bigotry is terrible. good that there's brilliant people like Caster Semenya fighting against it
Because she was born with a birth condition? Is that hard for you to understand?
Let me guess: an intersex who has a dominant Y chromosome, right? If so, then he is a man and not a woman.
Yes! Males experience 5a-reductase 2. Females do not. Caster has 5a-reductase 2. Thus, he is male.
The only difference between me and other women is I don't have a uterus, no fellopian tubes and no menstrual cycle??????? Sorry failed the female test. That's alot of software to leave out while be created.
There are numerous women like that.
Born with a a DSD that only affects males, has testes (internally), dates women... is a woman. Yeah, alright.
I can't imagine finding out about such a condition so far into life. That had to have been so jarring -- especially being in the public eye. It must be so hard to face this depth of scrutiny for a genetic condition that no one is making space for, and she was so patient with all those questions. I'm so shocked by the lack of empathy and understanding in the comment section, and hope we can do better about putting ourselves in someone else's shoes and listening to understand another's reality even if we don't agree with their conclusions.
Caster is male. He has a condition called alpha 5 reductase deficiency. This is a condition only affecting males. Also he has testes, internal testes, but testes nonetheless. Woman DO NOT have testes, by definition. He's right, wearing trousers does not make you a man, but having testes most definitely does.... and he knows this. He knows Dame well that he is male.
people with congenital anorchia aren't born with testes. if anarchia is present in 1 of 20,000 males & there are approximately 3.5 billiion males on earth, that means there are 350,000 beings on the planet who should be defined as what, according to this logic? women? this is one problem with cherry-picking one aspect or defintion for male or man, woman, tree, chair, & so on. always exceptions that when extended to account for the global population will add up to a large sum of individuals who contradict the definition, which is when you're then forced to start making caveats to include them, in turn opening up the possibilites until it essentially becomes a loose social construct we all agree on. for instance, a woman who adopts is considered a "mother" both legally & socially despite not actually birthing a child, etc. she assigns herself the title of mother & we all accept it. hard for me to discern what's different in the case of intersex people.
@@scottomanits not cherrypicking, if you cannot frame it in to the norm its an anomaly or deficiency. Its a nk brainer answer
@@AfrikanGod1 it's as if the whole of what i said & asked was totally disregarded, i.e., you literally cherrypicked the word cherrypicking, as the whole concept seemingly flew right over your head. isn't it ironic? please read up on the concept of semantic change, which is a fact of language evolution. also try to understand that what you're positing makes zero sense from a linguistic perspective, but you have to actually engage your brain to get it, or else it just amounts to more cherrypicking.
@@scottoman Your argument is that Semenya can compete in the female category despite not being scientifically recognized as a woman, and using your words this is an arbitrary (cherrypicking)choice or did I misunderstand?
congenital anorchia : Men who are born without testicles are considered men because their entire physiology is male, literally thats what the text books say., for example, the eunuchs of the fifteenth century did not cease to be men despite their condition, sterile women did not cease to be women
despite their condition, men with one testicle or three are the same. Regarding hermaphrodites, which is the case of Semenenya, the gender assigned is in accordance with the most predominant sexual characteristics in a given individual, Semenya does not menstruate, does not have ovaries, does not have fallopian tubes , nor uterus, and has xy chromosomes and inner testicles, this from a medical point of view is a man.Apologies in advance if im am not engaging my brain enough , maybe your levels above me ,intelectually speaking.
@@scottoman Your argument is that Semenya can compete in the female category despite not being scientifically recognized as a woman, and using your words this is an arbitrary (cherrypicking)choice or did I misunderstand?
congenital anorchia : Men who are born without testicles are considered men because their entire physiology is male, literally thats what the text books say., for example, the eunuchs of the fifteenth century did not cease to be men despite their condition, sterile women did not cease to be women
despite their condition, men with one testicle are the same. Regarding hermaphrodites, which is the case of Semenenya, the gender assigned is in accordance with the most predominant sexual characteristics in a given individual, Semenya does not menstruate, does not have ovaries, does not have fallopian tubes , nor uterus, and has xy chromosomes, this from a medical point of view is a man.Apologies in advance if im am not engaging my brain enough , maybe your levels above me ,intelectually speaking.
He discovered he is male. He has no womb. He has no ovaries. He has testes. And then decided to live in denial. He is a powerful voice for denial.
A man can't be a woman any more than he can be a cat. Wearing a dress doesn't make him a woman any more than wearing a fur coat would make him a cat. Wanting to be something or simulating something doesn't make you that something.
yet a person can be born intersex, often with conflicting traits and hormones, and identify with their preferred gender not necessarily to make themselves this way, but rather to make sense of who they are.
@@scottoman if he had grown up in a family where boys and girls have been viewed as different he would have been a normal man. Come on, stop imposing social acceptability on somebody who is 1 y.o
@@climbergreenO if you just do the simple math there are at least millions of people on earth who're born with both female and male parts and thus both female and male hormones. you're only imposing social restrictions on such people because they're different from you and so you expect them to fit in your "box" when nature is very random and imperfect. genetic mutations are common. in fact, about the same amount of people on earth are born with red hair, which is a genetic defect. do you go around telling those people they should've been born into families with black or brown hair? what about race, which scientists agree is a social construct akin to gender: do you go around telling people they aren't really black or white? come on, stop being led by the bigot's mind. this has nothing to do with age.
Are albino Black people still Black? Does that mean a white person can identify as black if they feel it?
I identify as a disabled woman with 9 children but for some reason the government won't give me all the benefits I'm not entitled to.
I've always believes I'm a toddler - but that doesn't mean I compete in kindergarten sports in my 40s
We can all tell you have retained the intellectual level of a toddler though, if that brings you comfort.
@@Hanloss😂😂
@@Hanlosstouché😂
@@Hanlossyou win, bravo comment!!!
And I bet you still don’t change your own diapers either! 😂
What is up with sports choosing ambiguous gender athletes??? It used to be so simple, we have men and women divisions, there was never something in between. These kinds of people should be grouped into the disabilities division instead. This madness has got to stop.
Men with disorders of sexual development threw a fit and so, when simple saliva swaps were used to flush out men in women's sports, men like Semenya managed to stop that easy way to keep women's sports safe.
There always were. People didn't make squillions out of sport though, so it wasn't so touchy a thing
#SaveFemaleSports
Donnys voice is deeper thsn mine 😂
Maybe you should keep that to yourself, maybe you have a high-pitched voice and you were born a woman and intersex.
If she was born a biological women then sorry, the games the game and she won
She was born with both characteristics, but she was born with testicles and more testosterone.
He wasn’t born a woman.
💯. Most Olympic athletes are born with different mutations that make them the best of the best. That’s been proven. She just so happens to have been born with a genetic mutation that affects her reproductive organs.
@@iMatti00 But in a way it's puts her on the levels of a man sportswise. She has testicles and produces testosterone. So her competing with men would have make more sense for a fair fight.
@@HolyNarzare you aware all humans have testosterone...?
She is a woman never go under any surgery not a transgender please let us not judge her.
A man saying he is a woman and racing against woman? Can mike tyson return to boxing and identity as a woman? Can Usain Bolt return to running and identify as a woman?
Should Teddy Riner be prevented from competing because he is bigger than those in his category? Should we prohibit competition for left-handed fencers or do categories by height in fencing? The sport is inherently unequal.
@christinehauteclaire940 That comment made no sense. If men competed in all womans sports, then no woman would win.
The new misinformation, and disinformation laws will put a stop to the nonsense.
Alternative reality
Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
This is not your right to take over other people’s right. When you asap you were born into a mistake, are you saying you are a mistake? Sports is not about identity.
I’m not completely sure what you’re saying, but I understand what side you’re on. But it seems like you don’t understand that she was born intersex. Her body is exactly how it was born.
@@iMatti00 That makes this person the exception, not the rule. When you plan around the exception instead of acknowledging, it will fail.
i see your intention but calling it a "mistake" isn't good.
@@shovelhead2155 EVERYONE is different from others in many ways. hyperfocusing on DSD, as is happening in this situation, is the problem. ALL bodies are different, that's literally what separates us.
@@QueerPolitics But that's what's implied when they have to "fix" you.
They are intersex with internal testes.
It's my first time hearing about the school coaches that introduced Caster Semenya into the world of athletics
And in no way fair
Most Olympic athletes are born with different mutations that make them the best of the best. That’s been proven. She just so happens to have been born with a genetic mutation that affects her reproductive organs.
😂😂😂 if she is biologically born as girl, then any other privilege she has is a gift for her. I am sure giving up those privileges will mean for her losing to other women .
He was born male and misdiagnosed.
T
Maybe he doesn't feel like a man. All due respect, we need a new word. 😊
Mental strength 💪🏽
I hate to say this but Caster appears more masculine than the host. I am so confused by all of this.
sweety pie. the issue here is a birth gender which is female . not how masculine you think she appears as.
You Can WISH what you want to be BUT You CANT BE WHAT YOU WANT TO BE… point blank Brother. That’s up to God to decide. He’s Our Maker… Creator! He’s Perfect in Allllll His Wayssss!!! The Same God Yesterday, Today …And Forever! His Word Stands True Always! Let Me Help You Dear…
You-Are-A-Man! Nothing else needs to be said…. Not that their needed to be said in the First Place🫶. God Loves You…. Just Not what you believe.
Caster Semenya has never been a boy or a man and no one has ever considered her to be. what on earth are you talking about? CLEARLY you haven't even bothered to watch the interview and have never heard of her before. grow up, pay attention, and shut up with that god nonsense.
So if I was born with 3 legs, and there are other people who "Identify" as having 3 legs. Should we make Levi's jeans make as many 3-legged jeans as regular to be inclusive? Make Nike have 3 shoes in every box?
Did you not understand the video?
This guy needs to go back to school and be educated, cause thinking before saying something really shows your intelligence 😂😂😂so please think before you comment
@@dineshanpillay5944 Take your own advice. Im not the one trying to redefine nature.
@@shovelhead2155 you are, she was born a female and is still a female, go see her doctor boy
@@dineshanpillay5944 You're an expert. What role did this person play in the creation of this person's children? Did this person contribute mobile or immobile gamete? Or is the relation through marriage/ 7?
Western culture!!!
This is a man and a cheat
Nonsense. A teapot can't tell you how it feels to be a tractor. Bye.
Identity is a construct of the mind. The body is different than the mind, though. Exposure to different pheromones for half of one's life defines what they are in the physical world, regardless of what the mind thinks. This person is a confused cheater. Just because Channel 4 accepts this person's thoughts, doesn't mean society/reality agrees.
I think that the brits commenting are not allowing for how in African culture being a Mother is more central to being a woman and how being raised with this model only to find out in the teens that she has intersex qualities doesn’t change how she perfectly legitimately identifies. I commend her for her openness and likability and challenging those who want to divide the world into neat boxes. Ofcourse, hormonal differences giving advantages in sport adds many complexities.
So if I was born with 3 legs, and there are other people who "Identify" as having 3 legs. Should we make Levi's jeans make as many 3-legged jeans as regular to be inclusive? Make Nike have 3 shoes in every box?
@@shovelhead2155is that meant to make you look smart because it just shows to everyone else how you aren't understanding this scenario.
@@shovelhead2155wtf go back to school boy😂😂😂
@@Hanloss What science? Biology and Intersex science? Or the Alfred kinsey and John money suedo science leading to horrific damage?
They don't stand for this in Africa, not in the Muslim side or Christian parts of the Continent.
A mother is a woman.
Than there's the father.
Are you really that delusional.
Even education is not fair to others.... some are born with the information...some need to learn and remember...some never learn...some learn to have jobs and end up not getting the jobs and forget either ways
What a world 🤡
*Western world 🤡
You know who you are. We're all born different from each other, don't let the judgements of those with logs in their eyes tell you different. God made you who you are and if others fail to heed the message in that, that's their own test of humanity failed.
there's no god, but otherwise, yes.
Is your argument that Caster is lying? He is male. Why is he saying he is not?
@@benjaminfranklin8412 she knows, she says who she is and it's for her to know and not for you to tell her differently. She has an intersex condition as 1.7% of people do. These can affect you physically and or behaviorally. since our society is build around behavioural and physical labels that split facilities and service into two categories, she gets to choose the category that best reflects who she is, as we all do. We all know who we are, some others may not recognise it but that's their limitation, their lack of knowledge and understanding, their pre judgement, because we were created male and female and all have elements of both. Some men can't grow a beard, some women can.
identity isn't, and cannot be, totally self-generated.
@@davidadiwego4608 certainly society for instance decides to base services around the number of gender options it recognises, it also tends to dictate the roles within those options, though none of that is set in stone, some societies are more fixed others more open.
Regardless of the limits and boundaries society imposes or allows, people know who they are, which fits best for them.
brilliant interview, Caster!
Sick
Nopppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
This is the catch-all that the term gender entails ambiguity... Biologically, we can be three things, either male, female or hermaphrodite depending on each person's genotype 🧬... I can treat this person as a woman, yes She likes it, but when it comes to sports competitions, she should compete against men
I feel like you’re lost in this video. She is intersex, which is exactly what you call hermaphrodite.
Bones rule and his are male regardless of his opinion.
Oh, so before it was about how you were born. But now that the transgender movement has come about, even though this has nothing to do with the transgender movement, now you’re going to change the goal post because you think it’s too close to being trans, right?
You go girl !!!!!!
That is not a woman...
Wow ok doctor, how about you actually go find out instead of assuming and hating people who are better than you
She's a woman, yall just haters
It was known even as far as 2009, but everyone was just too afraid to call out how South Africa was cheating.
The above person is intersex
Nor a man
There should be gender equality. It's what makes the most sense in this planet.
What a vapid & grossly over simplistic statement. Specifically in sports, the genders are not even remotely "equal". Let all the men compete with the women athletes, you'll get your "equality" wakeup call pretty quickly.
I agree; In sports men should be able to compete against men and, women compete against women.
@@skadiwarrior2053- if I had to guess I would be pretty sure you don’t even understand that she was born intersex. Probably don’t know what it is, and probably didn’t even realize it because you couldn’t pay attention to the video long enough. That would be my guess.
Trans should compete separate.Everyone have equal chance.
You obviously were not paying attention to this video. She’s not transgender, she’s intersex. There’s no way you watch this entire video or you would have understood she mentioned she is exactly how she was born and would’ve mentioned other clues.
I just love that Caster Semenya can hold her own
🤮
Love her❤❤
His
yes she does hold her own knob agreed@@user-cj4kb1yf8b
He is 100 % man with XY chromosome.
He is a thief of women’s sport and rights.
lies
Take your meds
If I had to guess I would be pretty sure you don’t even understand that she was born intersex. Probably don’t know what it is, and probably didn’t even realize it because you couldn’t pay attention to the video long enough. That would be my guess.c
Disappointed this interview didn't include climate change..not enough boxes ticked.
🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
If I had to guess I would be pretty sure you don’t even understand that she was born intersex. Probably don’t know what it is, and probably didn’t even realize it because you couldn’t pay attention to the video long enough. That would be my guess.b
Fake news