EG4 6000XP and EG4 PowerPro Battery Generator
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- Опубликовано: 31 янв 2024
- This build is intended to be a UPS and back up generator system for my critical load panel. 
I am using the EG4 6000XP inverter and EG4 PowerPro battery. I purchased both from Signature Solar.
I didn’t want to make this a “permanent installation” thus the cart. This cart construction is very sturdy. As mentioned in the video I purchased the 80/20 8080 type extrusion from Amazon and some from Automation Direct. If I was to do it over again I would probably purchase all the extrusion from automation direct because it’s free two day shipping on orders over $50 and slightly less expensive for the extrusion pieces than Amazon. With automation direct you also have the ability to have custom cut lengths of the extrusion that you can order with no additional charge. On Amazon you only have a few choices of cut lengths available to order, nothing custom.
This video is not sponsored by anyone. 
Some links to some of the items:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0BS93KXD9?...
www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBQ7RCD1?...
www.amazon.com/dp/B0CB6Q19XX?...
www.amazon.com/dp/B08PVFLFSR?...
www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV7RZ6W?...
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That's awesome. I think this is the first portable i've seen with extruded aluminum. Nicely done. And thank you for the details on the build.
Very nice
Thank you very much. I've watched most of your videos. It was your RUclipss on the 6000XP and the PowerPro battery videos that got me thinking about this project. Thank you!
You absolutely made it portable! That’s awesome.
Intelligent build and thank you for the video. Very much looking foward to future updates/upgrades/testing and your insights. Thanks again
That's awesome, and pretty much what I want to do. I have a 10 breaker generator transfer switch installed and want to use a 6000xp as my backup generator. I plan on putting in about 4000w of solar panels to start with, add to them as needed. I was going to do server rack batteries, but my look into just doing the EG4's. Nice work!
Very nice and clean build you did there. I built a 3000w backup with 5.12 kWh battery and couldn’t believe how well it replaced my portable generator. No carbon monoxide risks and no trips to the store for fuel if you have some decent solar panels. Started expanding to whole house solar and recently ordered a pair of the XPs. Great job keep going! 👍☀️⚡️💡🔋
Amazing build. One potential add for my future build would be a car charger input. Load this up in a truck (would take some creativity) and charge quickly at a EV charging station. Also, potentially use an EV to charge using newer V2L technology...why not use the 100kWh EV battery as an emergency backup on a cloudy day!
Great work! I also have a 6000XP and Power Pro battery. I just received my bluesun 460w bifacial panels. Soon enough I’ll say good by to Edison!
Where did you buy your solar panels?
That's a fantastic build. Super smart.
This is great I’ve been thinking of doing something very similar. Thanks for sharing your experience.
That is a well planned and built rack. Great work !
Now, can you build me one and ship it to Texas ???
I am planning to add that same equipment to my house and have been kicking the can because I hadn't made a decision on how to install it, wanted portable set up. Now I know exactly how I am going to do it !
Thanks for sharing this build !
wow! I don't know which I like better the cart or the solar. Very informative video.
Wow I want one! Nice work sir
awesome, dude.....
The rack is great! Would you be able to make a video explaining the wiring of the xp and details of your connection to the house? I just bought a ecoflow ultra and will have the smart panel 2 installed soon. I'm wishing there was some way to use the PowerPro battery with the Ecoflow system. If you could add a contact to your channel that would be great. I also live in California.
What settings do you have for grid powering option? Lead Acid or Li Ion? Etc…?
The 6000xp is rated for 240vac 25 amp as an inverter.
BUT
In AC or generator bypass mode it will supply 240vac 50 amp to the loads.
The part I'm trying to figure out is how to limit ac (or generator) input amps. The reason being is that each 6000xp can do 50 amps in bypass while charging the batteries. This is potentially 75 amps (assuming max dc charging) which is a huge problem.
The only solution I've figured out is to guess load amps, add a 20% buffer and convert the load into watts. Then take 240vac 50 amp input = 12,000 watts subtract the load watts. This gives you available watts for battery charging. Divide charging watts by 48vdc to get max charging amps and lower that by a few amps as an additional buffer. 6000xp's in parallel add to the complexity.
Why they assume that 50 amps bypass is good for an inverter that only is rated for 25 amps is beyond me. 50 amps total ac input is almost reasonable. Why no option to set max ac input amps? I would assume most people would want max ac input to be the same as rated output, 25 amps.
The 6000xp's inverter is rated 240vac 25 amps = 6000 watts. Presumably most people will design the max load to be under 6000 amps. Most common is either a single or dual 6000xp configuration. Dual allows for 240vac 50amp output, or 12,000 watts.
Most people will set up a 240vac 50 amp breaker and cabling because larger is much more expensive and 50 amp is common due to RV's, generators and car chargers.
240vac 50amp service is enough for a small house or RV. i doubt there are a huge number of 5000 sq foot off grid houses.
12,000 watts is enough for a medium sized ac, hot water heater, washer/dryer, lights, tv, computer, and phone charging. Basically normal living in a 1000 sq foot off-grid house as long as you don't try to run everything at once. Or a "critical loads panel" for a larger house.
For a single 6000xp, the expected max load is likely around 3500 watts (you don't want to run 6000 watts continuously). 20% buffer brings it to 4200 watts, 50 amp input means 7800 watts available for charging or 162.5 amps, maybe set ac charging to 150 amps.
The trouble is dual 6000xp. Assuming max expected load of 7000 watts plus 20% buffer = 8400 watts. 50 amp input is 12,000 watts, leaving 3600 watts for battery charging. This limits you to 75 amps charging, maybe 70 amps to be safe. This is 35 amps per 6000xp.
Even though you calculate 7000 max expected watts, what happens if the ac is running, your wife is cooking and someone takes a shower then dries their hair? A smallish ac will draw about 2000 watts, 1000 watts for a microwave or instapot, 1500-1700 watts for a hair dryer and 4000 watts for hot water heater (or 8000 watts if a long heater. We'll ignore other possible loads. This is 8500 watts. This is likely happening at night, so 3600 watts battery charging possible. 12,100 watts meaning the 50 amp breaker will trip in a few minutes.
Worse yet, each 6000xp will happily bypass up to 50 amps. A dual 6000xp is spec'd to require 100 amps input (or more). By code you need a 120 amp breaker, except that isn't available, even 125 amp is rare. Meaning either 150 amp or 200 amp breaker. By code your cable must handle at least 20% more. Now you are paying for heavy duty cabling. Only a couple decades ago did it become common for houses to have 200 amp service, meaning most houses only have 100 amp service. Upgrading your house from 100 amp to 200 amp service is several thousand dollars.
If someone buys 4 6000xp's in order to supply 100 amps to their house then they'll have to upgrade even more.
Its all a never ending spiral. I can understand that some people want 50 amp bypass available. It should be an option, not default. The default should be 25 amps.
This also partially explains the large generator requirements.
I contacted Signature Solar tech support.
Currently there is no way to limit either AC input, Generator, or even Bypass power.
I requested that they send a feature request to EG4 to allow these limits. The more people that request features increases the chance that EG4 will implement them sooner.
A 6000xp with it's 25 amp inverter should at the minimum allow a lower Bypass; 25 amp versus 50 amp. Even better would be to limit AC and/or Generator input to 25 amp. Best would be an option to allow the user to set their own limit possibly between 10 and 50 amps. I didn't think about requesting the ability to disable bypass mode.
I can see a single 6000xp were you want to limit the AC input to 40 amp (80% of the maximum of a 50 amp breaker; considered a safe limit).
I can also see a limit of 25 amp. And a lower limit becomes useful with multiple 6000xp. With two 6000xp you may want a 20 amp limit so that the total is 40 amp.
EG4 recommends > 10kw generator for a single 6000xp. This us 41.67 amp, not enough for the 50 amp bypass (but likely enough for most people). Except for two 6000xp they recommend a > 15 kw generator. This is 62.5 amp, nowhere enough for the 100 amp Bypass.
This means if you use the recommended size generator you first have to calculate the estimated AC load, plus a buffer, then limit the charging to not exceed the generator capability. Plus is you have loads the have high starting current, you may have to reduce charging even more. Generators are rated with peak power and running power. If you have a large AC or multiple AC units the compressor starting power (minus running power) may be more than the generator's difference between peak and running power.
Then to add to the confusion, the setting for battery charging is DC amp. This means you must decide how many AC amps that you can use in bypass mode then multiply by 240vac to get power in Watts, then divide by charging volts to get charging DC amps, and finally adjust for effeciency. Even worse if your batteries are low the charging volts will be significantly lower than the charging volts that you set. This will result in different charging amps when the batteries are low versus when they are nearly full.
As an example, your expected maximum AC load is 4000 Watts, which is 16.67 amps at 240vac. You decide to add 20% as a buffer which brings the AC load to 4800 Watts which is 20 amps at 240vac. You want to limit total input AC to 40 amps (on a 50 amp breaker). This allows another 4800 Watts for battery charging. If you use 54v to charge this would allow 88.9 amps DC. The claimed battery charging efficiency is 93%. This will lower your charging setting to 82.7 amps. But to be safe, you lower the maximum charging current to 80 amps, which is 4320 Watts charging, 4645 Watts consumption.
This safely puts you under 40 amp 240vac input from the 50 amp breaker. You are happy!
Except when evening comes and the AC unit(s) aren't running suddenly you AC load goes from 4000-4800 Watts to perhaps 1000-1800 Watts (with maybe short periods of increased usage, say your 1000w microwave).
In this case your 6000xp doesn't say "I can charge the batteries faster!". You will still limit charging the batteries to 80 amp DC unless you manually change the DC charging amps and hope that you remember to lower it again before the AC unit(s) kick back on.
If there was a setting to limit the AC input to 40 amps via a setting then if the 6000xp went into Bypass mode it will be limited to 40 amps, if your load is less then the rest could be used to charge the batteries up to a maximum of your charging limit. Everything would be automatic. If your AC load exceeds the maximum AC input then the 6000xp would fault to protect itself.
A single 6000xp is relatively simple. It gets really complicated if you parallel multiple 6000xp's. The 50 amp Bypass mode is per 6000xp.
2 units is 100 amps (the old standard size house service)
3 units is 150 amps
4 units is 200 amps (the new standard size house service).
5 units is 250 amps
etc
This means that most older houses can only supply two 6000xp's assuming and newer houses can only supply four 6000xp's; assuming no other loads.
Lets say you want to design a solar system to supply your old house. If you have a newer house you likely have 240vac 200 amp service from the electric company. This limits you to a maximum of four 6000xp's which can supply up to a combined 240vac 100 amps.
For many people this is likely sufficient for now. But as you are forced into using more electricity (replacing natural gas stove, water heater, clothes dryer and furnace) and needing to charge at least 1 electric car you will often exceed 100 amps.
Except to increase the number of 6000xp's you also need either to increase the service from the electric company which is a large cost
OR
configure only four 6000xp's with AC input, with additional 6000xp's off-grid.
The second option has another issue that is unclear. The manual says all 6000xp's must be connected to your generator. The manual does NOT specify this for the AC input, but it's reasonable that if the generator requires it so does the AC input. EG4 needs to clarify this.
If all 6000xp's must be connected to the AC input then you would need 2 seperate 6000xp systems, one connected to the grid and the other off-grid. Each system would have it's own bank of 6000xp's, it's own batteries, and it's own PV. Though you could cross charge the battery banks utilizing EG4 chargevertors. I'm not sure if both banks of 6000xp's can supply a single distribution box (if they will sync their AC outputs). If not then you would need another distribution box.
The only other solution is to charge the batteries with multiple EG4 chargevertors, one per 240vac 30 amps of service (or lower charging per unit using 240vac 25 amps). This would be 3 or 4 units for 100 amp service or 6 or 8 units for 200 amp service. This adds several thousand dollars of cost and the chargevertors do not have remote reporting or control. You also can currently only have comms between your batteries and either the 6000xp's or the chargevertor. Most people will likely decide that comms to the 6000xp is more important, meaning that the chargevertors must charge based on voltage not SOC.
All of this could be quickly resolved by the ability to limit AC input current. If you have three 6000xp's connected to 100 amp service you could limit them to 33 amps each (instead of the 50 amps currently) if you have four 6000xp connected to 100 amp service you could limit them to 25 amps each. If you have two 6000xp's connected to 50 amp service you could limit the input to 25 amp (or 20 amp with consequences).
Obviously these limits will also limit the available current for charging.
There are likely many people who love the 50 amp bypass mode. Maybe your house has 200 amp service and you only need to supply up to 100 amps to your house. Being able to supply the full 100 amps to the house while having 22,320 Watts available to quickly charge a large battery bank on cloudy days or in order to take advantage of variable electric rates is awesome.
I personally believe a large percentage of 6000xp users would not only benefit from input limits but love them.
I had originally added a 120vac 30 amp circuit for my previous RV. When I purchased the house it had a 240vac 30 amp circuit for a generator.
We are planning on selling the house in a few months so I don't see a reason to buy a new 50 amp breaker and upgrade the wiring; especially considering that I have two 6000xp's in my RV which would need two 50 amp breakers.
My experience with the 240vac 30 amp breaker is that if I'm close to 30 amps for about an hour the breaker will trip. This means that I have to limit myself to 27-28 amps (6480-6720 Watts), or 13.5-14 amps (3240-3360 Watts) per 6000xp.
My base load plus the smaller AC uses about 1800 Watts while the base loads plus the larger AC is about 2000 Watts. The base loads with both AC units running is around 3500-3800 Watts.
If the 6000xp's decide to go into Bypass with both AC units running there is nothing left to charge the batteries (I'm fine with this) but a single AC allows for Bypass and charging the batteries. I currently am configured to charge using about 3800 Watts, which allows running the smaller AC unit.
The only time I run the AC at home is on hot days when I'll be working inside. This means that most of the time I could charge at 6400 Watts instead of 4800 Watts. With an AC input limit this would be automatic. I'd set both 6000xp's a limit of 13.5 or 14 amps. Magically I could run one or both AC units and the 6000xp would charge the batteries with what is available. If I don't run the AC units then the batteries would automatically charge faster.
If EG4 gave us the ability to configure charging amps for each of the 3 AC start/stop times then I could have a work around. Maybe 0 amps charging from 11 am to 6 pm, from 10 pm to 6 am full charging (because the AC units are both off), from 6 am to 11 am and 6 pm to 10 pm allow charging based on the larger AC unit running. It wouldn't be perfect and I'd need to change the settings when camping and connected to 240vac 50 amp service and then remember to switch it back when at home.
I know someone will say "just use an EG4 chargevertor". I have a version 2 and it's great for using a small generator. Remember that I can only communicate with batteries with either the 6000xp's or chargevertor. It makes more sense to connect the 6000xp's. This means the chargevertor doesn't have battery SOC and the chargevertor doesn't have remote control nor remote monitoring. This means changing the charging amps if its hooked to the generator, 120vac 30 amp service or 240vac 30/50 amp service. This requires going into the RV basement.
It would be nice if the EG4 chargevertor integrated with the EG4 6000xp (and other EG4 inverter systems like the 12k and 18k). If you could plug the chargvertor comm into the 6000xp and the 6000xp relayed battery SOC and configuration data while the chargevertor sent the 6000xp charging data so that we could use the EG4 app or webpage to update chargevertor settings and monitor charge amps/Watts and historical data it would be great. Especially if you could parallel the chargevetors with comms to a 6000xp.
Heck I'd get a 2nd chargevertor if that was possible.
If you wanted to add an extra battery would you connect it together with a 2/0 battery cable?
I think the breakers on the unit are bigger as you want to discriminate between breakers. You don’t want the generator breaker to trip BEFORE the house circuit breakers.
Really nice construction and build. Obviously high quality.
Question: where is your neutral-ground bond in the system?
I have one of these inverters and am in the process of making the plans to set it up. I’d like to do something similar but the neutral-ground connections for this unit are a bit tricky. Remember, this unit does not have dynamic neutral-ground bonding capabilities as they are right now (from what I’ve read). It looks like you used a three prong 50a grid input connection, which means there’s definitely an upstream neutral-ground bond. This means that setting 26 should be disabled (no neutral-ground bond in the unit) and your breaker panel on the cart should have the neutrals and grounds separate. However, if you operate the unit without the grid input connected, there wouldn’t be a neutral-ground bond in the system. Conversely, if the neutrals and grounds are bonded in the unit and/or in the panel on the cart, you could have more than one ground-neutral bond in the system if the Grid input is connected. So you have to be pretty specific on your use case and it almost seems like the unit should be hardwired and stationary (or at least be very very very careful with how you use it). @willprowse any comments or suggestions?
Thanks for the compliment about the build. I am pretty happy with it.
I have the neutral-ground bond disabled on the inverter. The main service panel where the utility feed comes in is the only location where the neutral and ground are bonded. All my other panels in the house are not bonded. There are two ways my inverter system stays bonded:
1) through the 50 amp grid plug as you mentioned.
2) the output of my inverter system, the 30 amp plug, connects to my critical load panel in the house via a generator interlocked backfed breaker. That critical load panel's ground and neutral lines goes back to the main service panel which is bonded. Through the 30 amp plug the ground and neutral lines do not get interrupted if the backfed breaker is shut off. The ground and neutral lines on this 30 amp connection are screwed to their respective bus bars in the critical load panel. Just to restate, the critical load panel does not have the ground and neutral bonded in that panel, it is bonded back at the main service panel. If you look at 1:46 of my video I am showing the generator inlet plug on the wall. It has the required label (required by my locality) specifying that it must be a floating neutral system that is plugged into that plug. It all depends how it is set up in the panel and how you switch from grid to the generator. Since I am using a backfed breaker method in the critical load panel, only the hots get disconnected. Had I used a generator transfer switch, those can disconnect both the hot and neutral, in that case it would be a different setup.
If I was to disconnect the inverter from the 50 amp plug and the 30 amp plug and use the inverter and battery as a stand alone power source, then I would need to enable neutral-ground bond in setting 26.
@@alaskajoe61 I looked back at 1:46 and can confirm you definitely have the right labeling.
Can you estimate how much the extrusion set you back by itself? Looked like around 600-800 by my guestimations. I may make a version using 4x4's instead just based off the affordability of wood.
@@stephenfuller2936 I don't know exactly the cost of all the extrusion I purchased but I would also guess in the range you estimated.
It can do 50 amp bypass from grid.
Very interested by this as I’m doing something very similar but on a hand truck that lays flat, holds 800lbs. The links in the description are not active. Can you add them in a pinned comment so we can view them?
Please write in some comments what issues you had configuring your inverter to charge the batteries from the grid without PVs. If you could post a small document, would be great. I just bought the same inverter and I hear, it’s not well documented.
question I am just now trying to get mine online I got the app its asking for customer code, do we have to get that from eg4 electronics?
50 amp is correct it is in the specs!
Nice setup!! Hope to get same system. Question, is your portable system grounded or need to be? Maybe if for permanent home installation? Thanks.
It is grounded via the 50 amp plug from my service panel.
That look nice, but you can build out of lumber or wood, cheaper, 4 wheel flat dolly at harborfreigh 14 usd. Other lumer at hd or wood pallets... needed screws
No thanks. We prefer what's in the video..
@alaskajoe61 great video. Please make more. I'd like to see more. Does your setup allow you to add another battery to the back side? How much did the whole project end up costing if you don't mind sharing?
The size of cart I made does not really have enough room for a battery on the back side. However, if you order your rails at the bottom a bit longer you could certainly fit two batteries on it.
The inverter was $1400, the battery $4000. All the extrusions, breaker panel, etc was roughly on the order $800-1000
I think that battery is now 3700 the last time I checked.
GREAT PROJECT & QUALITY BUILD!
WHAT IS THE POSSIBILITY TO INSTALL ANOTHER EG4 BATTERY 🔋 ON THE BACKSIDE TO DOUBLE YOUR BATTERY 🔋 POWER ON A SMALL FLOOR FOOTPRINT 👣 IF WALL SPACE IS LIMITED?
Yes that would be possible but you would want longer members at the bottom instead of the 2x 610mm length I used
You think another eg4 battery would fit behind this contraption?
@@noyjr9492 with this extrusion you can get different lengths. So yes you could
awesome lol i thought at first ph maybe i have to get youtube for kids maybe its for teens so i got that, and figured hmm no dont think thats it. So then looked for any i could comment on. I have the Same battery and eg4 6000xp, i built a wall free stand section, 4’ wide by like 80” tall, with like 4x4 feet that are like 3’ long, so very similar to yours but mine with wood and 4’ wide, a spot for my breaker panel. I love what you done and the fact it has nice wheels, i very much interested in building this. So what do you use to screw/bolt the sections together ? Those purchased separately? Link for wheels from amazon?
Guy on here rodney hunt he has his home running on 3 eg4 6000xps and their server rack batteries. If you not following him give him a look if you plan to hook up some solar panels, i have same panels as him, signature solar still has them i believe, hyundai 305 watt panel for 88 bucks.
I added some of the links
@@alaskajoe61 thank you, greatly appreciated.
What did you have to do to get the 6000XP to communicate to the battery? Did you have to do any firmware updates or when you plugged it in, it worked?
I just followed the instruction on which port to connect, the dip switch configuration and make sure the battery and inverter were configured for lux battery
Thank you! I had a little trouble but managed to get it done and working@@alaskajoe61
how did you mount the battery and inverter?
In the video at 5:22 to 5:34 I show the cross members that hold the battery and the inverter.
Could you add links to all the electrical components and to links on Automation Direct?
Also the link to the Aluminum plate and lenghts for each extrusion?
Thanks
Great Works
50 amp because It has a 50 amp bypass from the grid
The manual isn't very good lot of things left out
*promosm* 💪
You should be put in jail for not mentioning the cost.
it is built to last, $500 was my estimation but with everything more like $800 to 1000