This video is great. Ben says that he is not an engineer, but he is asking all of the correct questions. I came to the channel following an EV thread, and now I am down a Ben's Eco Adventure worm hole. Good stuff. Subscribing. And yes, I am in the market for a new hot water heater. This is valuable.
I purchased the Bradford White Aerotherm with some trepidation after watching this video. I purchased the 80 gallon model and hoped that would help with the challenges experienced in this video with the 60 gallon model. I live in the Midwest and cold weather is an issue in the winter. I've only had the Aerotherm for a month, but it is fantastic so far. I have it in heat pump only mode and have not had any issues of running out of water. We have a family of four with two older teenagers. I keep the water temp set at 125F and do not have a mixer. I checked with Bradford White, and the new Aerotherms do have two sensors (T1 and T2) unlike the water tank reviewed in this video. One sensor is at the bottom of the tank and the other at the top. Hopefully this addresses a significant concern from this video. As an aside, I'm impressed with the tank so far. I was concerned that the heat pump would be noisy, but it's in our basement mechanical room. We can't hear in anywhere but right outside of the mechanical room wall vent when the heat pump is active. I've been very impressed. If we run into issues down the line, I'll come back and comment again.
I can hardly express how grateful I am to have found this video. We live in New Hampshire and have had the very same problems with the 65 gallon Bradford White Aerotherm we had installed in 2021. It has worked fine in the summer, but in the winter we never know whether our showers will be hot, lukewarm, or cold, despite using much more electricity than we expected. We’ve spent over $900 on service calls, had multiple components replaced, and had the same frustrating experience talking to Bradford White tech support and being told that it was likely a problem with our mixing valve or other plumbing. I put an electricity monitor on the circuit so that I could see when the unit was running the heat pump or the resistive heating element, and I couldn’t make any sense of its actions. My wife had a theory that the water was hotter the more we used, which seemed counter-intuitive. But it makes sense now, knowing that the heat pump wasn’t kicking in until the temperature at the top of the tank got down to 129º (no matter how cold the water was at the bottom of the tank), and that the resistive heating mode is only triggered by high hot water use. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with this video! I will pass the information onto the installer who chose our Bradford White unit, and get a replacement hot water heater installed before winter returns.
Thanks for posting this video. I ran into a similar problem recently with my aerotherm. BW said heater was functioning properly. Turns out we had a crossover problem( bad valve in our master tub). Once I put in a new valve I have not encountered running out of hot water as quickly as before. I should note that the problem was more severe in the winter, which now makes sense since it turned out to be a crossover issue. Hope this is helpful to others. Thanks again for making this video!
Excellent information. It’s funny, when I got to the mention of the Department of Energy study, I knew exactly what study you were talking about because I’d read it about 2 weeks ago. Really was an interesting study. I found it when looking for air temperature effect on HPWH’s for interest in using attic air or outside air. I hate when companies have incompetent tech support. The best tech support people tend to have their own curiousness about your problem. I once spent an hour on the phone with someone from Honeywell because of a Lyric thermostat not running the right components when needed and the guy walked me through some really great diagnostic tools and simply said at the end “there’s no reason for this problem not to have been resolved so it’s clearly a bad unit.” It was a few years old and worth like $200 so they just told me to return it and get my money back. Rare to find good tech support these days but nice when you do.
I believe this issue has been resolved. The unit I installed a month ago has two temperature sensors top and bottom. So far it has been working flawlessly.
Very much appreciate you sharing your hard work to understand the poor performance in cold weather (over a period of year!). It's complex when the software algorithms aren't public, but your arguments seem well-reasoned. Our installer recommended these: he said they are a quieter alternative to Rheem (the unit would be near a bedroom). We're in the San Francisco area, so perhaps would be OK for us given our higher temperatures. Not sure what to do. Thank you!
If your incoming water isn't as cold as mine, you may be ok with it. Also depends on your usage and if you go for a larger tank. Still, if you saw my review of all three I've owned, the Stiebel Eltron Accelera is by far my favorite.
@@BensEcoAdvntr We have to be a little careful with Stiebel Eltron: it looks like their 58 gallon model only has a UEF of 3.1. To qualify for rebates in our area of California we need UEF 3.3, so we would have to go to the 80 gallon model (UEF 3.6). Kudos to Stiebel Eltron for publishing noise level specs (and specifying the distance!) which none of the big US manufacturers seem to do. Rheem used to, but deleted them when problems arose, I suspect because efficiency improvements increased noise levels.
Weird. I've had the 50 gallon model for 1.5 years and haven't had any problems. We are a family of four that take showers fault plus use a dishwasher. We don't have a low flow shower head. We also do one to two loads of laundry using hot water each day. I keep my setting at 120 degrees. Oh, I live in Maine so the incoming water is cool during the winter. That's too bad you are having issues.
Just had the second heat pump failure after the unit was replaced. It seems to last about 4 years before the heat pump leaks feon. It then gives an FF error and it is very difficult to repair. We are just a house of 4 people so it shouldn’t have much issues but it just keeps failing.
@@cujo7240 I had a Kenmore branded A. O. Smith which was generally ok, but the compressor failed after a few years. In my other review video, I mentioned it was probably isolated, but I've seen complaints about it in the Lowe's reviews more recently. Seems like Rheem is a bit more consistent among the big box store options, but I don't have any personal experience with them.
In general, these manufacturers don't seem to be fully aware of the current tech. Adding in sensors and a wifi connection would mean they could diagnose problems remotely - not 100% but a lot. Also the early adopters are going to be curious and look into all aspects of their new appliance. They won't be distracted by the typical "first we have to see if we can blame your roof or weather or paint color choice" customer service.
it's like a smart transmission, that upshifts way early, not allowing acceleration, when it is needed. It's for energy saving has priority over comfortable heated water.
Hello Ben. I’m a plumbing contractor and I recently installed an 80 gallon unit and the unit is not producing the required amount of hot water needed and I believe it is due to the problem the you discovered. I have an idea that I would like to chat with you about if possible. Please let me know if you would like to chat. Thank you 🙏 and your explain is spot on. Beautiful! Keep up the good works.
Hi Michael, thanks for watching. I just set up a Ben's Eco Adventure Facebook page where you should be able to send a direct message. Can't link it here in comments since it will get flagged as spam. Feel free to contact me there.
I had a GE Geospring water heater for 11 years in a vacation home from 2012 to 2023, when the heat pump failed. I had been getting continual messages that the filter needed cleaning for about a year (it didn't) and finally error codes. It was then that I realized that the heat pump wasn't working anymore and I had the unit replaced with an AO Smith unit. Hopefully, it will last longer.
Ive watched your videos because I was nearly ready to pull the trigger on a "Heat Pump" water heater. Your video changed my decision completely. I crossed off every single american brand heat pump water heater and went with a Stiebel Eltron 300 E model. You touched on very important concerns that every homeowner should have. The american brands, ALL of them are pretty much electric resistive water heaters FIRST. The cherry on top (literally) are the heat pumps. They rely solely on resistive heating as the first line of defense. If you make renewable energy like I do, you have plenty extra to use. However, its also not an infinite source of energy. I dont want to get an extremely inefficient electric water heater that uses my extra electricity wastefully either. I went with the stiebel eltron because it has only 1 lower wattage resistive element and it uses the heat pump way more effectively. Im frankly disappointed in ALL of the american brands because they are marketing these as efficient. They are simply just "greener" because they use electricity vs. using electricity optimally. I could go on and on, but you get the idea...
I have the Rheem Pro Terra hybrid unit. It has several modes of operation. I use mine in Heat Pump only mode. It also has two combined modes with electric resistance heating, and one with electric only. There is also a vacation mode that keeps it at 65 degrees for 28 days or longer if programmed.
A high-tech off grid system is nice in a normal functioning world, but when you really need it in a collapse, one bad part that you can't get anymore and the whole system is useless. Amish off grid as a backup will be the norm then
I came across this video and found it very informative. I've always been satisfied with our Aerotherm (have had for 5 years) but recently while in Heat Pump Only mode it seems to go to Hybrid on it's own. I.E. during high demand or more than normal use it seems like the compressor and fan go off and the electric only led flashes which I guess means it's using the elements. If I turn the power off to the unit it restarts and the compressor and fan kicks on and it stays in Heat Pump only mode for a while then does it again a day or two later. It's frustrating. Any ideas?
Yep mine would do that too. The reason is again bad design - the upper element is 4500 watts and the lower one is 4000. When the tank is very cold, the control logic does at least attempt to provide hot water and uses the upper element which is closest to the outlet. But it can't run both the compressor and the upper element at the same time since that would exceed the rating of the circuit. The oldest unit I had (A. O. Smith) used a lower wattage upper element so it could always put out the most amount of hot water during high demand. Thanks for watching.
I have a customer that's having the same problem with that hot water tank. The only thing I can think of that was not mentioned is whether or not a tempering tank should be installed before the hot water?
Not familiar with a tempering tank, but I do have a mixing valve installed on the hot side to bring the water down to a safe 120F. It tested out fine though and is still in use on the unit that replaced the BW
Great review! It really helped me make a decision and based off of the new modifications, they seem to address your identified defects. Thank you for being thorough. We are choosing the BW Aerotherm to replace our 20 year old AoSmith. I’ll let you know how it goes.
@shanellguardo3678 I am also in the market for a water heater trying to replace a gas only AO Smith that is corroded. Can you share any more information on the new modifications that you are referring to?
Sharing an AI summary of the change: The Hybrid Plus mode on Bradford White's AeroTherm Series heat pump water heater uses both the heat pump and an electrical element to maximize recovery speed and hot water production for high demand situations. This mode uses two 4000 watt elements and the compressor, but consumes more electricity than other modes
@@shanellguardo3678 there are professional plumbers in these comments that state they have this same issue 1-2 months ago, and the manual for the BW Aerotherm already lists the Hybrid Plus Mode you mentioned, in its 2023 version. This clearly has not been fixed, unless you can actually point to proof that they fixed it.
I had my plumber install one of these, and I’m not happy with it either. This is in a townhouse with two people. If we do dishes in the sink for about 10 minutes and start the dish washer, we have hot water for one shower after that in the winter months with just the electrical elements. The system simply takes far too long to kick on. The newer Aerotherms have a “hybrid plus” mode now where the heating element and heat pump will work simultaneously and I believe they have more powerful electrical elements. Maybe the complaints started stacking up. However I will say this unit has saved me money during the summer months when I’m running the heat pump. I’d say close to 40 a month. Overall, there are better brands.
Sorry to hear. The hybrid plus is a band aid at best, the Stiebel Eltron Accelera that I have now works great and only sporadically uses the element. Best I can recommend is ultra low flow sink aerators and shower heads to make use of what you have
Navy shower method where you turn off the water while applying soap by using a trickle valve saves water. High Sierra shower heads are awesome. We Americans are spoiled.
You don't seem to understand or know about the different modes of your water heater at 3:06. What mode is it set at? Also setting it at 140 degrees is not really recommended. About 125 is safer and then adjust at the shower faucet to the temperature you want why even bother with a mixer valve. Maybe the 140 setting is messing up the water heater. I am considering replacing a B and W gas water heater for the heat pump model in a home we just bought as the older gas one is 10 years old. Since I live in hot/mild SCal maybe I'll get better performance than what you have experienced.
Yeah he seems a bit dilutional installing 3 HPWH's and still cant get it right. This dude hired it done too. Probably spending at least 5k at the least each install. lol I think he is on his 4th water heater now
One thing I will say is that heat pumps take air from the outside environment so if it is in a basement the air may be cooler and that may be why it doesn't get to the right temperature all the time because of cooler air I personally have a tankless water heater and love it I could never go back to a tank system again
This one was an anomaly in terms of performance. I experienced a tankless water heater when I was in Germany and hated it. Any time the flow was low, it would turn off and make your shower freezing. Or burn you when it came back on. Not a fan. Make sure to check out my full review of three heat pump water heaters here ruclips.net/video/bbjHF7YkMNA/видео.html
@@BensEcoAdvntr a lot of times that come from not being sized right for the application it is being used in meaning it is too small of a unit for the amount of water sources it's drawing from
I am an Aerotherm installer in Florida and have a 50 gallon model in our 2 person household; it works perfectly. It never occurred to me that without a tank bottom sensor the threshold for “backup element on” would be an issue in northern climates with 40 to 50 degree inlet water temps during the winter months, but it it makes sense that it could. One very important point you did not mention (forgive me if I missed it) is whether your operating mode is set for “Heat Pump Only” or “Hybrid” mode. I assume it is the latter but you had PLENTY of time to mention it so why did you choose not to?
@@BensEcoAdvntr Sounds like an control issue, an intermittent problem. I don't care for them simply because I do refrigeration for a living. If I were you I would have a surge protector installed to protect the compressor. It will fail, it's just a matter of when. I believe they are simply taking the discharge line off the compressor and using that to heat the water, however I would be wrong. If their is a refrigeration leak, that can cause a major problem. Take the top off and make sure the coil is spotless. Good luck
@@wd8557 as you saw in the video, the company confirmed it was operating as designed. I replaced this unit with a much better model from Stiebel Eltron. I have a whole house surge protector to avoid issues.
@BensEcoAdvntr Don't be bamboozled by them sending, a plumber, or hvac person over. It usually goes down like, send Mike over, it's just a hot water tank. They are not going to tie up senior techs with a hot water tank, trust me. 100% of basic hvac or plumbing companies don't do refrigeration. And can't read a wiring diagram properly. That being said get the OHM values of every sensor's in their. Have the tech check them, if everything is proper, you have a bad control board. Simple as that.
@@wd8557 a tech with both plumbing and HVAC licenses was sent. He was a specialist on HPWHs. He checked the resistance of various sensors and found one that was out of spec. The part was replaced and it didn’t fix the bad design. What you’re saying makes sense. I’d cut them some slack if it were just a bad part but trust me when I say it wasn’t. But again, this is all academic because I no longer own the Bradford White unit.
They might have Wi-Fi capability today, but not when I owned it. Would have liked to have the option because my previous HPWH from 2016 did have WiFi. I did a bunch of research prior to purchase and didn't find out about it sucking in the winter until I owned it. Hence this video for others to be aware they should avoid it in cold climate areas
Interestingly, this video shows a new "t1" temperature sensor which they say was recently added to the bottom of the tank? ruclips.net/video/SOcQOr1Y8qE/видео.html. We can hope the software uses this new sensor to address the problem you so kindly highlighted.
For those interested, I believe the newer model with the second "t1" temperature sensor at the bottom of the tank has a "1NCTT" in the model number. The older ones without the second temperature sensor have "1NCWT" in the model number. If you look at the manufacturer parts-list pdf files you can see the new second temperature sensor in the assembly diagrams: they added a compartment at the bottom for it, beneath the temperature/pressure relief valve. I'm impressed that Ben figured out this subtle problem (thanks Ben!). I don't know for a fact that the additional sensor addresses the issue, but it seems quite likely. I'm probably going to buy the newer 1NCTT 65 gallon model (since I've been told it's quieter than Rheem by our installer) but we're in the SF bay area, so we might not have even seen the issue with the old model given our more moderate climate.
Sorry to hear, if it's relatively new you might call their customer service line and see what they can do. Like with my experience, I'd expect they'll want to send a technician to check it. Patience is key in dealing with the company.
This video is great. Ben says that he is not an engineer, but he is asking all of the correct questions. I came to the channel following an EV thread, and now I am down a Ben's Eco Adventure worm hole. Good stuff. Subscribing. And yes, I am in the market for a new hot water heater. This is valuable.
I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV 😄
I purchased the Bradford White Aerotherm with some trepidation after watching this video. I purchased the 80 gallon model and hoped that would help with the challenges experienced in this video with the 60 gallon model. I live in the Midwest and cold weather is an issue in the winter. I've only had the Aerotherm for a month, but it is fantastic so far. I have it in heat pump only mode and have not had any issues of running out of water. We have a family of four with two older teenagers. I keep the water temp set at 125F and do not have a mixer.
I checked with Bradford White, and the new Aerotherms do have two sensors (T1 and T2) unlike the water tank reviewed in this video. One sensor is at the bottom of the tank and the other at the top. Hopefully this addresses a significant concern from this video.
As an aside, I'm impressed with the tank so far. I was concerned that the heat pump would be noisy, but it's in our basement mechanical room. We can't hear in anywhere but right outside of the mechanical room wall vent when the heat pump is active. I've been very impressed. If we run into issues down the line, I'll come back and comment again.
I can hardly express how grateful I am to have found this video. We live in New Hampshire and have had the very same problems with the 65 gallon Bradford White Aerotherm we had installed in 2021. It has worked fine in the summer, but in the winter we never know whether our showers will be hot, lukewarm, or cold, despite using much more electricity than we expected. We’ve spent over $900 on service calls, had multiple components replaced, and had the same frustrating experience talking to Bradford White tech support and being told that it was likely a problem with our mixing valve or other plumbing. I put an electricity monitor on the circuit so that I could see when the unit was running the heat pump or the resistive heating element, and I couldn’t make any sense of its actions. My wife had a theory that the water was hotter the more we used, which seemed counter-intuitive. But it makes sense now, knowing that the heat pump wasn’t kicking in until the temperature at the top of the tank got down to 129º (no matter how cold the water was at the bottom of the tank), and that the resistive heating mode is only triggered by high hot water use.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with this video! I will pass the information onto the installer who chose our Bradford White unit, and get a replacement hot water heater installed before winter returns.
Glad to help! I currently have a Stiebel Eltron Accelera and it's very good; a massive improvement over the Bradford White
Thanks for posting this video. I ran into a similar problem recently with my aerotherm. BW said heater was functioning properly. Turns out we had a crossover problem( bad valve in our master tub). Once I put in a new valve I have not encountered running out of hot water as quickly as before. I should note that the problem was more severe in the winter, which now makes sense since it turned out to be a crossover issue. Hope this is helpful to others. Thanks again for making this video!
That is interesting. What do you mean by a "cross over problem" ?
Excellent information. It’s funny, when I got to the mention of the Department of Energy study, I knew exactly what study you were talking about because I’d read it about 2 weeks ago. Really was an interesting study. I found it when looking for air temperature effect on HPWH’s for interest in using attic air or outside air.
I hate when companies have incompetent tech support. The best tech support people tend to have their own curiousness about your problem. I once spent an hour on the phone with someone from Honeywell because of a Lyric thermostat not running the right components when needed and the guy walked me through some really great diagnostic tools and simply said at the end “there’s no reason for this problem not to have been resolved so it’s clearly a bad unit.” It was a few years old and worth like $200 so they just told me to return it and get my money back. Rare to find good tech support these days but nice when you do.
I believe this issue has been resolved. The unit I installed a month ago has two temperature sensors top and bottom. So far it has been working flawlessly.
You saved me with this video! I was just about to sign a contract for this unit (80g), and now I'm looking into Stiebel Eltron and Rheem, instead.
Very much appreciate you sharing your hard work to understand the poor performance in cold weather (over a period of year!). It's complex when the software algorithms aren't public, but your arguments seem well-reasoned. Our installer recommended these: he said they are a quieter alternative to Rheem (the unit would be near a bedroom). We're in the San Francisco area, so perhaps would be OK for us given our higher temperatures. Not sure what to do. Thank you!
If your incoming water isn't as cold as mine, you may be ok with it. Also depends on your usage and if you go for a larger tank. Still, if you saw my review of all three I've owned, the Stiebel Eltron Accelera is by far my favorite.
@@BensEcoAdvntr We have to be a little careful with Stiebel Eltron: it looks like their 58 gallon model only has a UEF of 3.1. To qualify for rebates in our area of California we need UEF 3.3, so we would have to go to the 80 gallon model (UEF 3.6). Kudos to Stiebel Eltron for publishing noise level specs (and specifying the distance!) which none of the big US manufacturers seem to do. Rheem used to, but deleted them when problems arose, I suspect because efficiency improvements increased noise levels.
Weird. I've had the 50 gallon model for 1.5 years and haven't had any problems.
We are a family of four that take showers fault plus use a dishwasher. We don't have a low flow shower head. We also do one to two loads of laundry using hot water each day.
I keep my setting at 120 degrees. Oh, I live in Maine so the incoming water is cool during the winter.
That's too bad you are having issues.
Just had the second heat pump failure after the unit was replaced. It seems to last about 4 years before the heat pump leaks feon. It then gives an FF error and it is very difficult to repair. We are just a house of 4 people so it shouldn’t have much issues but it just keeps failing.
@@VolneyDouglas that's a bummer 😕
What was the brand of the 50 gallon HPWH that you had previously that seemed to work better for you?
@@cujo7240 I had a Kenmore branded A. O. Smith which was generally ok, but the compressor failed after a few years. In my other review video, I mentioned it was probably isolated, but I've seen complaints about it in the Lowe's reviews more recently.
Seems like Rheem is a bit more consistent among the big box store options, but I don't have any personal experience with them.
In general, these manufacturers don't seem to be fully aware of the current tech. Adding in sensors and a wifi connection would mean they could diagnose problems remotely - not 100% but a lot. Also the early adopters are going to be curious and look into all aspects of their new appliance. They won't be distracted by the typical "first we have to see if we can blame your roof or weather or paint color choice" customer service.
it's like a smart transmission, that upshifts way early, not allowing acceleration, when it is needed. It's for energy saving has priority over comfortable heated water.
Hello Ben. I’m a plumbing contractor and I recently installed an 80 gallon unit and the unit is not producing the required amount of hot water needed and I believe it is due to the problem the you discovered. I have an idea that I would like to chat with you about if possible. Please let me know if you would like to chat. Thank you 🙏 and your explain is spot on. Beautiful! Keep up the good works.
Hi Michael, thanks for watching. I just set up a Ben's Eco Adventure Facebook page where you should be able to send a direct message. Can't link it here in comments since it will get flagged as spam. Feel free to contact me there.
I had a GE Geospring water heater for 11 years in a vacation home from 2012 to 2023, when the heat pump failed. I had been getting continual messages that the filter needed cleaning for about a year (it didn't) and finally error codes. It was then that I realized that the heat pump wasn't working anymore and I had the unit replaced with an AO Smith unit. Hopefully, it will last longer.
I guess 11 years isn't terrible, but then again it wasn't being used daily. Hope the A.O. Smith works out well
Ive watched your videos because I was nearly ready to pull the trigger on a "Heat Pump" water heater. Your video changed my decision completely. I crossed off every single american brand heat pump water heater and went with a Stiebel Eltron 300 E model. You touched on very important concerns that every homeowner should have. The american brands, ALL of them are pretty much electric resistive water heaters FIRST. The cherry on top (literally) are the heat pumps. They rely solely on resistive heating as the first line of defense. If you make renewable energy like I do, you have plenty extra to use. However, its also not an infinite source of energy. I dont want to get an extremely inefficient electric water heater that uses my extra electricity wastefully either. I went with the stiebel eltron because it has only 1 lower wattage resistive element and it uses the heat pump way more effectively. Im frankly disappointed in ALL of the american brands because they are marketing these as efficient. They are simply just "greener" because they use electricity vs. using electricity optimally. I could go on and on, but you get the idea...
Glad I could help with your decision!
I have the Rheem Pro Terra hybrid unit. It has several modes of operation. I use mine in Heat Pump only mode. It also has two combined modes with electric resistance heating, and one with electric only. There is also a vacation mode that keeps it at 65 degrees for 28 days or longer if programmed.
A high-tech off grid system is nice in a normal functioning world, but when you really need it in a collapse, one bad part that you can't get anymore and the whole system is useless. Amish off grid as a backup will be the norm then
I came across this video and found it very informative. I've always been satisfied with our Aerotherm (have had for 5 years) but recently while in Heat Pump Only mode it seems to go to Hybrid on it's own. I.E. during high demand or more than normal use it seems like the compressor and fan go off and the electric only led flashes which I guess means it's using the elements. If I turn the power off to the unit it restarts and the compressor and fan kicks on and it stays in Heat Pump only mode for a while then does it again a day or two later. It's frustrating. Any ideas?
Yep mine would do that too. The reason is again bad design - the upper element is 4500 watts and the lower one is 4000. When the tank is very cold, the control logic does at least attempt to provide hot water and uses the upper element which is closest to the outlet. But it can't run both the compressor and the upper element at the same time since that would exceed the rating of the circuit.
The oldest unit I had (A. O. Smith) used a lower wattage upper element so it could always put out the most amount of hot water during high demand. Thanks for watching.
I have a customer that's having the same problem with that hot water tank. The only thing I can think of that was not mentioned is whether or not a tempering tank should be installed before the hot water?
Not familiar with a tempering tank, but I do have a mixing valve installed on the hot side to bring the water down to a safe 120F. It tested out fine though and is still in use on the unit that replaced the BW
Great review! It really helped me make a decision and based off of the new modifications, they seem to address your identified defects. Thank you for being thorough. We are choosing the BW Aerotherm to replace our 20 year old AoSmith. I’ll let you know how it goes.
@shanellguardo3678 I am also in the market for a water heater trying to replace a gas only AO Smith that is corroded. Can you share any more information on the new modifications that you are referring to?
Sharing an AI summary of the change:
The Hybrid Plus mode on Bradford White's AeroTherm Series heat pump water heater uses both the heat pump and an electrical element to maximize recovery speed and hot water production for high demand situations. This mode uses two 4000 watt elements and the compressor, but consumes more electricity than other modes
@@shanellguardo3678 there are professional plumbers in these comments that state they have this same issue 1-2 months ago, and the manual for the BW Aerotherm already lists the Hybrid Plus Mode you mentioned, in its 2023 version.
This clearly has not been fixed, unless you can actually point to proof that they fixed it.
I had my plumber install one of these, and I’m not happy with it either. This is in a townhouse with two people. If we do dishes in the sink for about 10 minutes and start the dish washer, we have hot water for one shower after that in the winter months with just the electrical elements. The system simply takes far too long to kick on.
The newer Aerotherms have a “hybrid plus” mode now where the heating element and heat pump will work simultaneously and I believe they have more powerful electrical elements. Maybe the complaints started stacking up.
However I will say this unit has saved me money during the summer months when I’m running the heat pump. I’d say close to 40 a month. Overall, there are better brands.
Sorry to hear. The hybrid plus is a band aid at best, the Stiebel Eltron Accelera that I have now works great and only sporadically uses the element. Best I can recommend is ultra low flow sink aerators and shower heads to make use of what you have
Navy shower method where you turn off the water while applying soap by using a trickle valve saves water. High Sierra shower heads are awesome. We Americans are spoiled.
You don't seem to understand or know about the different modes of your water heater at 3:06. What mode is it set at? Also setting it at 140 degrees is not really recommended. About 125 is safer and then adjust at the shower faucet to the temperature you want why even bother with a mixer valve. Maybe the 140 setting is messing up the water heater. I am considering replacing a B and W gas water heater for the heat pump model in a home we just bought as the older gas one is 10 years old. Since I live in hot/mild SCal maybe I'll get better performance than what you have experienced.
Yeah he seems a bit dilutional installing 3 HPWH's and still cant get it right. This dude hired it done too. Probably spending at least 5k at the least each install. lol I think he is on his 4th water heater now
You really can't blame this owner, since he actually brought in a professional and they weren't able to correct the issue.
One thing I will say is that heat pumps take air from the outside environment so if it is in a basement the air may be cooler and that may be why it doesn't get to the right temperature all the time because of cooler air I personally have a tankless water heater and love it I could never go back to a tank system again
This one was an anomaly in terms of performance. I experienced a tankless water heater when I was in Germany and hated it. Any time the flow was low, it would turn off and make your shower freezing. Or burn you when it came back on. Not a fan. Make sure to check out my full review of three heat pump water heaters here ruclips.net/video/bbjHF7YkMNA/видео.html
@@BensEcoAdvntr a lot of times that come from not being sized right for the application it is being used in meaning it is too small of a unit for the amount of water sources it's drawing from
I am an Aerotherm installer in Florida and have a 50 gallon model in our 2 person household; it works perfectly. It never occurred to me that without a tank bottom sensor the threshold for “backup element on” would be an issue in northern climates with 40 to 50 degree inlet water temps during the winter months, but it it makes sense that it could. One very important point you did not mention (forgive me if I missed it) is whether your operating mode is set for “Heat Pump Only” or “Hybrid” mode. I assume it is the latter but you had PLENTY of time to mention it so why did you choose not to?
I was always running in hybrid mode
The elements should never run at the same time. It's either the bottom or the top, it cycles between the two.
Correct, but it should run the heat pump simultaneously with one element. However, that didn't often happen when it should have.
@@BensEcoAdvntr Sounds like an control issue, an intermittent problem. I don't care for them simply because I do refrigeration for a living. If I were you I would have a surge protector installed to protect the compressor. It will fail, it's just a matter of when. I believe they are simply taking the discharge line off the compressor and using that to heat the water, however I would be wrong. If their is a refrigeration leak, that can cause a major problem. Take the top off and make sure the coil is spotless. Good luck
@@wd8557 as you saw in the video, the company confirmed it was operating as designed. I replaced this unit with a much better model from Stiebel Eltron. I have a whole house surge protector to avoid issues.
@BensEcoAdvntr Don't be bamboozled by them sending, a plumber, or hvac person over. It usually goes down like, send Mike over, it's just a hot water tank. They are not going to tie up senior techs with a hot water tank, trust me. 100% of basic hvac or plumbing companies don't do refrigeration. And can't read a wiring diagram properly. That being said get the OHM values of every sensor's in their. Have the tech check them, if everything is proper, you have a bad control board. Simple as that.
@@wd8557 a tech with both plumbing and HVAC licenses was sent. He was a specialist on HPWHs. He checked the resistance of various sensors and found one that was out of spec. The part was replaced and it didn’t fix the bad design. What you’re saying makes sense. I’d cut them some slack if it were just a bad part but trust me when I say it wasn’t. But again, this is all academic because I no longer own the Bradford White unit.
These can have WiFi added. Lot of speculation. People please do your research
They might have Wi-Fi capability today, but not when I owned it. Would have liked to have the option because my previous HPWH from 2016 did have WiFi. I did a bunch of research prior to purchase and didn't find out about it sucking in the winter until I owned it. Hence this video for others to be aware they should avoid it in cold climate areas
So software should be improved
Interestingly, this video shows a new "t1" temperature sensor which they say was recently added to the bottom of the tank? ruclips.net/video/SOcQOr1Y8qE/видео.html. We can hope the software uses this new sensor to address the problem you so kindly highlighted.
For those interested, I believe the newer model with the second "t1" temperature sensor at the bottom of the tank has a "1NCTT" in the model number. The older ones without the second temperature sensor have "1NCWT" in the model number. If you look at the manufacturer parts-list pdf files you can see the new second temperature sensor in the assembly diagrams: they added a compartment at the bottom for it, beneath the temperature/pressure relief valve. I'm impressed that Ben figured out this subtle problem (thanks Ben!). I don't know for a fact that the additional sensor addresses the issue, but it seems quite likely. I'm probably going to buy the newer 1NCTT 65 gallon model (since I've been told it's quieter than Rheem by our installer) but we're in the SF bay area, so we might not have even seen the issue with the old model given our more moderate climate.
I have a 50 gallon one and I have same problem
Sorry to hear, if it's relatively new you might call their customer service line and see what they can do. Like with my experience, I'd expect they'll want to send a technician to check it. Patience is key in dealing with the company.