Astra Militarum do What Post Balance Dataslate? Artillery Nerfs, Tanks Rise Up?
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2024
- Let's talk through the changes for the Imperial Guard in the 10th edition summer balance dataslate...
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0:00 Intro
2:11 Born Soldiers Change
8:08 Reinforcements
9:33 Artillery Nerf
12:39 Kasrkin + Sentinels
14:29 Tank Shock
15:17 Creed
17:14 Rogal Dorn
18:51 Order Errata
20:03 Initial Impressions
21:57 Outro 
Игры
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It is always funny how much guard shifts with rule changes through the holy trinity of infantry, artillery, and tanks
It's frustrating as casual player getting punished by the pros
"ah finally finished paining my basilisks, just in time to be shelved"
I haven't played 40k since the last edition, but in general it's always been the same, people play guard for the guardsmen, but the tanks are what make you compete. The main issue the guard have is that guardsmen are weak to bolters, which every second miniature in the game has
@@arbiters487 they are weak to everything.
@@arbiters487 its a str 4 ap 0 d1 gun line dude. You're literally just making basic saves 90% of the time
A lot of these changes don't feel like its from the PoV of a person who played as guard, but as a person who played against guard (and probably lost).
The sad part is the Super Heavy’s not having born soldiers anymore.
So 8 leman Russ list it is GW
I was thinking 18 sentinels, but lots of russes certainly sounds sound
And tank commander
I like the idea of the Born Soldiers change, but tying it to squadron and regiment is wonky. There should be a new tag based on weapon/purpose. It doesn’t make sense for Lascannon HWTs to be anti infantry, or Punishers being anti-tank. Just run through and give things a tag for their Born Soldiers target
Yea, so may units screwed by this changes. My favorite part about it is field ordnance. I think that even GW understand that with this model profile you can use only their inderect guns and doesn't even try to make them direct shooting platforms. I have lethal hits on my 4 big lascannon shot, but not against vehicles and monstrs. Great
math wise it doesnt matter if everyone gets it,
russes and dorns are the best users anyways.
so the difference is very slight
No, no, no, you just don't get it. Players, especially new ones, are too stupid to follow rules that aren't laid out as ABC 123. That's why we can only build units as the box presents it and play them in that way except in very rare exceptions, why we can't have points on a per weapon/upgrade basis, and most importantly why we can't have such confusing rules like "weapons below strength X have lethal vs models of toughness Y and reverse for stronger weapons against tougher units."
You wouldn't want to confuse everyone, would you? We already have ~2000 uniquely named special rules, and that's as complicated as we can manage as players.
Why. This is a massive nerf and vast overcomplication to an already dogshit faction. No other faction has to deal with this lol.
Give hwy weapons lethals against vehicles and monsters, rapid, assault and pistol against infantry. BOOM, fixed.
Whoever did the Guard rules changes seemed to just not care enough to do any QC. Heavy Weapon lascannon squads don't have Lethal on the necessary targets, and neither do Heavy Lascannon FOBs. Meanwhile, by running 20-strong guard units you are literally giving you opponent the Secondary game with 5 VP per - they just aren't survivable enough (Kreig are close when fully kitted, but require the psyker and marshal for any prayer of lasting more than 1 round). They really have gutted infantry guard without cause. Goddamn it, I don't want another Knight army.
My strategy is to get the models I like, paint them up, try my best and then complain loudly. Nothing changes, but I still have fun.
Usually GW only nerfs one Guard playstyle at a time. This time, everything that isn't tanks has been rendered bad.
probably have large amount of tank inventory theyre trying to offload
I'm liking the Born Soldiers change to infantry.
@@Peter_Wendt Yeah it's a positive change but overall infantry heavy lists are much worse due to Reinforcements.
Being better at killing elite infantry is a bonus, not something you can build a list around in 10th edition..
Though maybe with Ironstorm nerfs, we will see more elite infantry to lethally hit.
While I understand changing things for the health of the game. So many of these changes to guard just feels like they didn't even think how it would effect them.
Yeah, Tank Commanders say 'hi'
@@scope40k tank commanders are the worst unit in the whole roster, just nothing is right on this unit
@SteelStorm33 every winning guard list I've seen takes at least 2
@@SteelStorm33 I don't know, mate - the competition is tough, there's a lot of worthless datasheets at the moment. 🤣
Astra Militarum index is really stormy and chaotic, that's for sure. I mean, it's not too bad, and winrate is low but not awful - but there are also so many weird game design decisions.
@@superkamigoru you mean before or after the last update?
It's not like they are useless, just totally overlooked in terms of balanced and thoughtful rules, much as like lots of other units in IG index.
Guard stratagems had an absolute nerf bat taken to them and beaten to a bloody pulp. FoF, Reinforcements, Inspired Command, Expert Bombardiers. Guard is now heavily reliant upon the Core Rulebook Stratagems, and they were already on a 45% win rate. The Detachment Rule change helps but does it make up for this? I doubt it, but time will tell.
Multiple rules and abilities are now broken/non-functional. Did anybody actually THINK about this before they rolled in the changes?
The funny thing is we seem to be doing fine competitively on the back of dorn, scions, and sentinels so they probably won't fix the rest.
Played my first game with the new updates. I dropped almost everything arty related. Added 2 rogal dorns and upgraded my russes from vanquishers to standard russes. I stomped my buddies bugs into the dust. 100 to 57. Tabled him in turn 3. Tanks just ripped apart everything the infantry just got in the way of everything that could do damage to the tanks. I lost 2 chimeras, 8 catachans, and a leman russ. Thats it. Everything else either healed or took no damage.
Get this man a promotion, an office and another Rogal Dorn.
Share the list friend
What's the list? Always looking for ideas and things to try.
@Crunch2327 Combined Arms (2000 points)
Astra Militarum
Strike Force (2000 points)
Combined Regiment
CHARACTERS
Commissar (30 points)
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
Death Korps Marshal (60 points)
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
Death Korps Marshal (60 points)
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
Lord Solar Leontus (125 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Conquest
1x Konstantin’s hooves
1x Sol’s Righteous Gaze
Platoon Command Squad (60 points)
• 1x Platoon Commander
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 2x Veteran Guardsman
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Lasgun
2x Laspistol
1x Master Vox
1x Medi-pack
• 1x Veteran Heavy Weapons Team
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
1x Mortar
‘Iron Hand’ Straken (55 points)
• 1x Auto shotgun
1x Bionic arm with devil’s claw
1x Plasma pistol
BATTLELINE
Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 points)
• 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Jungle Fighter
• 9x Close combat weapon
2x Flamer
7x Lasgun
1x Vox-caster
Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 points)
• 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Jungle Fighter
• 9x Close combat weapon
2x Flamer
7x Lasgun
1x Vox-caster
Death Korps of Krieg (130 points)
• 2x Death Korps Watchmaster
• 2x Plasma pistol
2x Power weapon
• 18x Death Korps Trooper
• 18x Close combat weapon
1x Death Korps Medi-pack
2x Grenade launcher
12x Lasgun
2x Meltagun
2x Plasma gun
Death Korps of Krieg (130 points)
• 2x Death Korps Watchmaster
• 2x Plasma pistol
2x Power weapon
• 18x Death Korps Trooper
• 18x Close combat weapon
1x Death Korps Medi-pack
2x Grenade launcher
12x Lasgun
2x Meltagun
2x Plasma gun
Infantry Squad (60 points)
• 1x Sergeant
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
• 7x Guardsman
• 7x Close combat weapon
6x Lasgun
1x Meltagun
1x Vox-caster
• 1x Heavy Weapons Team
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
1x Mortar
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Chimera (70 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Chimera heavy bolter
1x Heavy bolter
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lasgun array
Chimera (70 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Chimera heavy bolter
1x Heavy bolter
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lasgun array
OTHER DATASHEETS
Leman Russ Battle Tank (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Leman Russ battle cannon
2x Plasma cannon
Leman Russ Battle Tank (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Leman Russ battle cannon
2x Plasma cannon
Leman Russ Battle Tank (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Leman Russ battle cannon
2x Plasma cannon
Rogal Dorn Battle Tank (240 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Castigator gatling cannon
1x Co-axial autocannon
1x Heavy stubber
2x Heavy stubber
2x Multi-melta
1x Oppressor cannon
Rogal Dorn Battle Tank (240 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Castigator gatling cannon
1x Co-axial autocannon
1x Heavy stubber
2x Heavy stubber
2x Multi-melta
1x Oppressor cannon
Tempestus Scions (50 points)
• 1x Tempestor
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 4x Tempestus Scion
• 4x Close combat weapon
2x Hot-shot lasgun
1x Hot-shot volley gun
1x Plasma gun
Exported with App Version: v1.17.0 (45), Data Version: v430
@@TheBoggelnthanks
19 seconds into release, thats a new record
magic
IG Stratagem internal balance was quite bad before but it got even worse. 2 useless stratagems, 3 2 CP stratagems, 1 is only one use.
Fields of Fire is gonna be spammed every turn if you bring Creed anyways and you keep 2 CP for one Reinforcement. Suppression Fire is quite niche but Fields of Fire is better investment and Armoured Might is too expensive to ever be used. I might have used once or twice, but really you can't afford it. Expert Bombardiers and Inspired Command are literally dead.
Is there any other detachment with overall worse stratagems?
Armored Might has _a few_ use cases - it makes Hellblasters cry, for one. But yeah, it's usually very niche - most anti-tank does too much damage per shot for the -1 to matter.
Armoured might is great against things like haywire blasters or arc rifles. Haywire does 3 dev wounds on 4s, reducing the damage by 33% is fab.
BRB gonna go glue all my barrels parallel to the ground real quick. Just have to let the crews know they’re a tank destroyer squadron from now on.
As someone who ran an infantry army with artillery support I'm baffled here... my AT came from HWTs and my Anti-Inf came from my arty vehicles... this slate wrecked my army so hard and I was already struggling to do well in the first place. Hell I've been tabled twice this edition but for some reason someone in GW thinks this playstyle is over-performing? ???
@@blckdrgn813 they don't balance based on how you play but as the player base as a whole.
@@superkamigoru Nah I'm pretty sure GW keeps tabs on my specific playstyle.
@@blckdrgn813if they're watching your play style they're watching my purchases. Seems every time I buy something or finish painting something it gets nerfed, legendsed, discontinued, or made useless.
I finally get two Basilisks and the points increase happened the next morning. I finally get Cyclopes and the OC rules changed in Pariah, I finish painting 6 Bullgryn and assemble 10 Kasrkin and the points went up.
I had a panic attack when I woke up the morning after painting Leontus to see the most recent update.
I think artillery needs to come down at least another 10 points each to be In a good spot with these changes. And the expert bombardiers stratagem needs to be replaced with something better that would help infantry guard makeup for the loss of more reinforcements. Something that would add significant survivability when you popped it so you could get through five battle rounds without losing every one of your guys before the game is over.
The problem with Guard is that their best units doctrinally are artillery, which are conceptually fun (at least if you love WW1 stuff like I do), but very much not fun to play against.
artillery is far from being the best unit, never was.
they got better for indirect fire because of the stupid super deadly and high density terrain game,
where guard cant use their masses well.
its only not fun to play against because they made the whole game about hiding in terrain every turn. Instead the game needs less terrain and the overall power level of shooting needs to be toned down.
I never really got "not fun to play against"
Nothing other than the Manticore was really all that deadly. Artillery was supplemental fire most times for comboing with other stratagems or for nerfs like with the Earthshaker.
@@oblivionfan345Tony Indirect isn't fun to play against and getting lethals for no trade off was too good. The movement debuff is horrible if your anti-tank was melee based. I used to play Stormlance SM and I'd lose almost all the time because of the Earthshaker type rules on Indirect.
My 12 strong Leman Russ army is looking forward to the changes, still testing out some changes such as replacing an Eradicator with a Punisher running 3 heavy flamers.
👀
(Heart swells with Imperial Pride)
Russ' and Chimeras is my new meta. And it's so much fun to play.
That is legit the tournament meta now.
@@Wind-Whistler Worked out well for me! :D
mech guard was always good in 10th, now its the last resort
@@SteelStorm33 Not true. You need the guard on foot to take advantage of all those sweet lethal hits. It's just that mech guard does the same job, because chimeras have been great for many editions. Keep them in until the last minute...turn three...and then let loose on the objectives to bring the game home.
@@SteelStorm33 You can still run blobs of 20 Kriegers and kick arse. But the chimera option is so much less stressful and easier. It's not the last resort, it just makes sense. Fairplay to my fellow infantry players! No more free stuff...but then you were taking armour already, right?
I think Lord Solar is still just as auto-take for most armies. (It’s not like tanks got less useful and the Tank Commander is still an iffy unit rules wise.)
Now that Reinforcments is less of a concern, LS’s extra CP is gonna be used to pay for smokescreen every turn and 1 cp for fields of fire with creed. Maybe I’ll get to use Suppression Fire for the first time!
I'd see it as Rise of the Sentinels since they just got flat out Lethal Hits for the most part.
Fun fact: the Praetor no longer has rules thanks to the indirect fire rules change. It's whole ability by design was to be able to ignore the indirect fire penalty if you gave it an order and hit on a 2+ as it is supposed to be guided missile artillery. Now its an inferior Manticore that costs twice as much in points and four times as much in real world money.
Something interesting too with Creed and stratagem changes : you can now use Armoured Might turn 1 even if you don't get initiative. This can prevent catastrophique loss of a Leman Russ or Rogald Dorn before you could use them once.
It have often been a frustrating event, so I look foulard being able to prevent it 😅
I have a crazy idea, run manticores forward, dakka
I like the way you think, captain. But how about we try it with six Manticores?
take a leman russ, manticores are very bad compared to them,
their only benefit was firing indirect.
@@SteelStorm33 But SIX though. Six Leman Russes.
At this point I think GW is just overthinking what to do with artillery. It should not be to just attack their rules directly. Either just give more units the Indirect Fire keyword so you have more units to counterplay each other, stick to just points raises, or just concede that 10e's Army Force Organization rules aren't working and return to dedicated, limited slots.
Although at this point now I'm worried they're going to go all the way and sunset all artillery units to Legends...
"Go to ground" should be the dedicated anti-indirect strat, you could mitigate the opressive nature of ID with that, somewhat.
Great video. But generally this dataslates had me put my guard back on the shelf and go back to playing PC games again.
The amount of ‘collateral damage’ to our stratagems & unit abilities makes me feel like we werent really considered when making changes to rules. They were trying to nerf something else and didnt even think outside the box for us. Arty nerf might have been palpable if they had taken to time to rework our strats etc. but this just seems like a mindless swipe when you dont.
Reinforcements being ones a game is ludicrous considering all the book guard quotes about “clogging the eye of terror with bodies”
Anyway whilst it doesnt feel like i got my moneys worth with the QA team.. I refuse to reward that type of behaviour by running out and spending my wages to buy 3 Rogal Dorns, just cause that fixes there blunders.
I just turned in my final for my summer class and have like a month off (other than work) so I’m going to try to knock out all my Krieg tanks and infantry. Looking forward to this video.
/popcorn
Lethal hits for every ranged attack makes IG Lethal hits overwatch goes crazy
Leman Russes and Rogal Dorns will be even nastier but otherwise nothing else worth wasting 1 CP on except if you wanna just finish a model on 1 wound.
@@SZUPERhun Big squad of tempestus Scions after FRSR buff against elite units is probably the other one u would use
@@steelxspider5274 Those are mostly still just ap 1, any bonus ap doesn't work in overwatch.
@@SZUPERhun what about the 13 plasma gun shots? I particularly like the scions because full rerolls on objectives plus sustained so more likelihood of getting sixes.
@@SZUPERhun Scions with a command squad, if their target is kind enough to stand on an objective have full rerolls to hit, sustained and lethal. Overwatch with them slaps into infantry.
"Astra Militarum do What post-balance dataslate?"
Bro we do nothing we wait for another patch. This is GG, unless you REALLY like tanks.
WE’VE GOT OURSELVES A CONVOY!!
I was about to 3D print 2 Rogal Dorns. Plan continues.
What dimensions are the rogals hull?
The reinforcement strategem nerf seems to be against another army, guard just got hit in the crossfire. I wounder what army was responsible
Cruddace probably got stomped by unending swarm nids or a kroot army
Unending Swarm Gargoyles, I think.
I still question using the tank commanders, but this is a new light. Maybe we will see less Solar XM radio channel lists now.
I think they really need "No line of sight rule" to needing line of sight from other unit that would help alot
Reinforcements should have just been "cannot reinforce a reinforced unit"
Thematically, reinforcements only come in deployment, or mid table if controlled.
I'm building my dorn and wanted to know more, thanks Auspex tactics !
I would recommend basecoating the wheel-wells black before you put it together completely. Makes it easier to drybrush it metallic later on without any annoying hard-to-reach spots.
@@Peter_Wendt I decided to leave the tracks on the sprue for now, as soon as I started putting the first bit together I realized I would have problems.
We need a new detachment a la dark eldar
If only the balance team of geedubs would listen to auspex.... Maybe, only maybe they would finally understand there rules eventually.... 😂
Artillery obviously over-nerfed, really stupid actually. I love it how Auspex diplomatically says it's "strange" :)
I think the core indirect fire nerf was heavy handed but not an unreasonable attempt to fix it. (Compared to further points nerfs). That being said, our artillery’s points needed to come down further (much further maybe for manticores) to justify this heavy handed if an approach.
@@rileysmith7763 I guess I expect more from a multi-million $ company than an afternoon's effort that I can see holes through within 5 minutes of reading the changes. To understand more of my point of view check out the Praetor rule for an example.
I genuinly wonder about the internal function/dysfunction of GW at this point. There are multiple teams working on 40k and they do not communicate, that much is clear.
I guess they had a bunch of Rogals in the warehouse to sell. I'm assuming they'll go back up by 10 points next update, and then 10 or 20 the update after that after they sell a bunch of them.
Great time to buy some Artillery!
Chimera is now king.
I was always a tank lover ,have like 15 Lemans and rogal dorn and baneblades ,I finally can make my fav type of unit play
I think GW are taking the wrong route by straight nerfing artillery. The core Indirect rules need a reimagining to make them interesting to play against as opposed to just "Normal guns but ignore LOS". The right idea was there initially with most artillery giving a debuff but the problem is that the fantasy of e.g. Earthshaker Cannons still requires the guns themselves to be powerful.
My kneejerk idea is to make artillery more limited in what it can/wants to target.
One way could be having artillery hit on flat 6'es against units wholly inside area terrain. This gives opponent's a choice on whether to stay outside and take the full brunt or to play around it and limit their movement options. They could also for a middle ground of safeguarding their key targets while allowing the artillery to pound more expendable troops.
Another way could be the reintroduction of minimum ranges and give debuffs to weapons firing indirectly on the move. Effectively making the guns more awkward at close range but allowing them to be more powerful in long-range firefights.
These are by no means necessarily the best solutions but I think the current path of "Nerf artillery out of the game because they are unfun" is lazy. Sidenote that while the above ideas don't apply to Aircraft or Fortifications, I'd like to believe alternate solutions should similarly be found for these unit types to give them a niché but unique flavor on the battlefield.
Also drill commander had been requiring you to be stationary prior
it still does
EXACTLY, he said "it now requires" meaning it hadn't before, which, is wrong
This is even better as a combat patrol player...
All these nerfs and no lethal hits in return?
I don't WANT to play tank spam I want to play infantry spam.
GW doesn't care. They insist you go buy tanks and sentinels right now.
Infantry got better with the rules changes too! Huge swaths of lasgun shots can actually drop targets now.
then fucking play infantry spam, just dont bring it to the absolute most competitive tournaments possible. Nothing in this balance change is PREVENTING you from playing what you want to play
@@aqz7603 This always happens lol, it's a circle. GW changes the rules/points > Complain about how they can't do X anymore> Switch to a new meta-ish list> Complain about winrate when they lose after they adjusted their army> GW changes the rules/points.
I want to play tank spam. I fact, I _already_ play tank spam. It's just that tank spam isn't very good and this dataslate does very little to improve it while hitting on the head a few of the tools it used to make up for its shortcomings (like returning Scions for secondaries).
Auspex, do you or anyone else have a pointer toward the source of the FAQ about Kasrkin doubling up on Orders?
Cant find it in any of the new documents
I had the same issue. I also put a comment here because of it. I checked the Index, Core Rules Update, Balance Dataslate and the Pariah Nexus Tournament Companion FAQ and I can not find it
The detachment ability being linked to keyword and target is too restrictive. It should be a vehicle targeting vehicles and monsters gets lethals and infantry targeting anything gets lethals within line of sight (since gw wants to get rid of arty).
But gdubs is trying to limit lethals on the Guard for some reason. When you look at how lethals are handled in other armies it's odd. Look at the tau mon' ka detachment for example. Lethals on everything and assault on every unit for three turns. Completely bonkers.
This just makes me think that each index faction should get a new detachment every six months. Specifically because gw is trying to make one detachment do it all when there are five ways to play Gurad.
Hi dear auspex, where did you find the answer about the voice of command per battle round. I can find it in the dataslate document nor in the rules commentary.
I love your work ! All of your vidéos are very usefull for every 40k players
It's in the index errata.
Reinforcements nerfs feels like it was only nerfed because other armies did horde better
As a casual mainly guard player it's things like this that put me off playing 40k as its a nightmare trying to keep up with the changes. The core rules updates are 33 pages long FFS and I have ploughed through all the updates and I cant find where the reinforcement rules have changed (the updated data card pack is exactly the same as the hard copy I have at home)
I say we bring back templates and scatter. There wasn't all this faff with artillery when there was a chance your shot would scatter off target and deal zero damage 🤣
Whinging aside though good video. Thank you. I didn't notice the change to Voice of Command. I'm glad I won't be getting that wrong but that is a bummer that another strategym was nerfed by proxy.
More and more it looks like gdubs is preemptively nerfing and just relying on knee jerk reactions instead of thinking things through.
So the artiliery stuff i need to be in loc to avoid the indirect fire effect or does that cannon always have indirect fire?
I came into warhammer thinking that my guard army will need actual soldiers, I bought 10 packs of guardsmen just to realise they get completely pointless after tanks are just all round better, I really do think infantry need some sort of buff or point decrease
Which FAQ has the Kasrkin rule changes because I can not for the life of me find it under the Balance Dataslate, Core Rules Commentary, Index:Astra Militarum or anywhere else. I have seen a lot of confusion over it because Auspex said it but no one seemingly can find it.
The problem is that gw lied us about less lethal edition
never spammed artillery and prefered tanks so the changes are good for my playstyle.
before watching this video my 2 cent: artillery got nerfed a tad too much but guard got soo much more mobile that we maybe dont need it anymore anyways. dorns got better AND cheaper and now we can have solar buff a 3x dorn pack instead of staying backline with arti. scion bomb got better with lethal hits when they drop and against regular infantery guard was always quite fine with their huge pile of pea-shooters and lasguns. and chimera are still crazy good; they rarely got borns anyways as they were on the move more often than not. Soo maybe field something like 3xdorns + solar (maybe with voxteam), 4-6 chimeras with catachans/lone harker, a scion bomb. then fill the rest with a frontline blob of catachans with straken and maybe armored sentinels if there are points left.
Personally I’ll still run a Baneblade even if it doesn’t benefit from the rule as 18 Barrels of Hell is still a lot of damage.
I overall dislike the new changes to Born Soldiers. They are on the right track, but the rule should be based on maybe weapon strength, and not type of unit weilding it.
Maybe S8 and lower lethals vs infantry. 9 and higher vs tanks/monsters. And with all the nerfs to indirect already, crazy point hikes, and the 1-3 always miss. Lethal hits against their intended targets should still be allowed. Basilisks would only work vs infantry and Manticores only vs Vehicles/monstrous.
I mean the whole edition is tanks ftw lol
I approve.
Don't worry once they run out of tanks to sell, they'll flip it to infantry meta.
@@justinmsc5 "Run out of tanks"? This is the Imperial Guard, son. We don't run out of tanks.
On the one hand, even in WW1 real-world artillery was very accurate, provided you had some way of seeing where the rounds were landing. Especially by WW2 with a radio-equipped FOO calling it in, artillery went pretty reliably exactly where you wanted it to go. Maybe a couple of rounds to get it properly ranged, but then it was very accurate.
On the other hand, outside of an infantry mortar, none of that artillery should actually be shooting at a target on the same board as the weapon. 40K doesn't actually have ranges but if we use the 12-24 inches for infantry weapons as a benchmark, a 4'x8' table would be somewhere in the vicinity of 1 km by 2 km and that is very, very short range for the big artillery vehicles. So I suppose the rule change can be justified by the challenge of firing indirectly at something so close.
Well, yeah, but assuming a lasgun is generally equal to an AK in terms of range, it should be effective to roughly 400 inches. Tanks should have a movement of at least 30 inches a turn and bikes? 70 inches at least. Don't even get me started about fliers. All of the ranges are comically short in 40k.
@@Peter_Wendt How are you calculating that? It sounds like you're assuming the ground scale should be the same as the miniatures scale. If 40K did that, it would be pretty much unique. The *only* games I'm aware of where ground scale and minis scale are the same are pre-gunpowder and either fantasy skirmish games with max 12 figures per side, or 15mm or smaller historical.
Anything more modern uses a compressed ground scale. Heavy Gear uses 1:87 scale miniatures, but the ground scale is 1 inch = 30 metres, which works out to around 1:1200. Gear Krieg uses the same 1:1200 ground scale with 1:100 miniatures. Stargrunt II is writeen for true 25mm minis, which are roughly 1:56 scale; that uses a ground scale of 1 inch = 10 m or roughly 1:400. Disposable Heroes uses 28mm minis, so around 1:50 scale. No specific ground scale is listed, but the useful effective range of a WW2 rifle is 30", so we can assume that to be about 300m which was the limit of effective fire over open sights, and this brings us back to the 1 inch is 10m scale. Micro-Armour uses 1:285 scale minis, and a ground scale of 1 inch = 100 yards. which works out to 1:3600 scale.
The idea of the ground scale being compressed is *normal* in minis games, and that's not the problem I was describing. The problem I was describing arises when you start comparing ranges inside the rules. Last time I played, which admittedly was 3rd ed, 40K didn't specify a ground scale, but the maximum range of something like a lasgun was 24 inches. So we can assume that 24 inches is around 300m, because *that* is the maximum useful range of a longarm firing over open sights, and that limit arises from the physics of *aiming.* Switching from a bullet to a laser won't remove that problem. If 24" represents around 300m, the ground scale is around 1:500, and a 4-foot by 8-foot table is depicting an area of 600m by 1.2 km. Corner to corner is about 1.35km.
And that means we can compare the ranges of everything else to the infantry weapons, and discover that 40K is not, in fact, very consistent internally, resulting in dumbass things like 200mm artilery pieces engaging targets all but inside their own blast radius...
@@davydatwood3158 That's exactly what I was doing, yeah. I am not that familiar with miniature games systems and their relative scale, I just want firearms to work roughly the way they would be expected to. I remember being pretty annoyed back in 3rd edition when a rules change dropped all the ranges, to the point where some units would be unable to take a single shot with their weapons before being charged. Literally some cavalry units could stop outside of pistol range, then charge next round and there was nothing you could do about it. Ridiculous.
Anyway, your point about scale consistency is well-made. Thanks for explaining further.
@@Peter_Wendt One of the things I like about Stargrunt II is that the ranges are based on the unit's quality. The theory is that even with the compressed ground scale, the bullet out of the infantry rifle is going to travel the entire board and more - but aiming under stress is *hard*. So the range increments reflect how good the unit is at figuring out where the target *is*, not the balistic performance of the weapon. Most units will be able to fire to at least 3 times their range increment, with increasing penalties. A fresh-out-of-basic unit has a range increment of 6" while a Tier-1 Special Forces Elite unit would have a range increment of 12".
It's a very different style of game, but if you want to add more "this acts like the real world" to your table, you might want to give Stargrunt II a read. Everything's online, just google it.b
Honestly, it just feels like GW wanted to nerf Guard artillery to the ground. Beyond that a lot of the changes seem half-baked and not thought out - Drill Commander? No Lethals for non-Regiment/Squadron units? Wyverns? And more...
My prediction: If you run anything but Tank heavy the Guard win rate will nose dive.
Can I get your advice on something, please?
I just got into warhammer and love the blood angels. But the rumor is that they’re one of next armies to get their codex with a high probability of new versions of figures. Should I wait to buy more blood angel specific figures because of this rumor?
Unless you have a good deal you'll miss out on, I don't see why you shouldn't wait. I guess it depends on how much you have at the moment vs. what you want.
@@nickrivas6429 this was the answer I was hoping for. My money is limited, and I’m terrified of buying blood Angel specific characters only for new versions to come out, making the old ones obsolete and retired lol
Yes I'd wait personally (as I am to add anything else to mine yet). If you did want to slowly build up and paint some things in codex preparation, Dante, Mephiston and the Jump Intercessors could be good options to start with given they're already updated models. I'm hoping they redo the Sanguinary guard as seems to have been rumoured :)
@@auspextactics agreed! The sanguinary guard are solid pieces but their stupid high point cost keep me from ever considering using them with Commander Dante
I think you will see the max amount of sentinels every game
I just want our Codex, ffs
BTE I pray we get more tank variation, different utility's different loadouts. Ya know, because all the different enemies 🎉 I have a APC and I want more kits! Freaking GW and they're cool army unit designs!
I was thinking they need a light tank design! We have medium (Russes), heavy (Dorns), super-heavies (Baneblades) but where are our speedy light tanks? I guess Sentinels are supposed to fill that role?
@@Peter_Wendt we kinda do have light tanks, but they are dold by Forge World. Carnadons are these cool light tanks that solar auxillia used in the times of great crusade
I wish you would do a video on how the rules changes effect the Rapier Laser Destroyer, its an anti-tank weapon with the Regiment keyword?
Edit: I also just heard there is a 2nd anti-tank unit that also has the Regiment keyword. How's that work?
Isn´t it straight forward? The Rapier now gets lethal hits against anything not Monster or Vehicle. Luckly it got the special rule that it gains lethal hits against anything if ordered so it can finaly profit of its rule.
@@hannespaulsen its not entirely reddundantanymoore, but thisdoesnt make it any good
@@SteelStorm33 Thats true but its not really bad just meh.
I am 3d printing all the sentinels I can
tank commanders not receiving the squadron keyword is so dumb. it's completely unnecessary and just forces solar into the auto include
Ran pure infantry into tsons last weekend, was not fun, got wrecked.
Ran 12 russ into dark angels mostly terminator list with 2 dreadnoughts, he called it end of turn 4 with only 5 models left and 30+VP pts behind. Bear in mind.. I went first and had nothing to shoot at turn 1.
Thousand Suns are not kind to Imperial Infantry.
Bah, i still dont like the aesthetics of the Rogal Dorn. Cant fathom why GW deviated so much from the traditional boxy, sharp angles and flat surfaces design of the Imperiums vehicles.
The Dorn just does not fit when placed next to Russes, Chimeras and Baneblades...
Srsly why do we have since 8th ed these stupid rules for Indirect Fire, they were fine and quite far in 4th-7th, why not simply combine and adapt it to 10th ed? Why always these stupid "verschlimmbessern" of the rule?
Furthermore the synergy between the trinity of Guard: Infantry, Artillery and Tanks, is so damn off in this index, the worst it probably has ever been. Truly a shame that they decided to cut so much of the awesome stuff away from 9th ed codex, which was arguably the 2nd best Guard ever had, best was imho 4th or 5th (can't remember when they had the awesome, yet well balanced, platoons to take).
And the buffs/nerfs feel like GW wants the players to shift to buy more tanks, espc. the (overcosted) Rogal Dorn. Bigger units = more money!.
The field ordnance battery is one of the fundamentally worst designed units in 40k history largely due to the core rules of 10th. You can pick examples from every edition but purely from a design perspective (not meaning balance/unit strength) GW have done very poorly in the last few editions of multiple of their game systems. A key example might be Raven Guard in horus heresy.
damn. I thought I was fast with my 29 minute mark, but theres a dude in the comments who managed 19 seconds💀
damn
Too bad all their armor looks like GI Joe toys. Only the Baneblade series look half decent.
Native 5+ do not hit on 4s
Just make born soldiers simple again. 9th edition has it down pat.
At first I didn't like many of the changes gaurd got, but as I watched your vid, I realized something: this was a nerf for most Imperial Gaurd armies, but it was a buff for MY Imperual Gaurd army. I never used Epic Heroes, never buffed my artillery, and never used the reinforcement stratagem more than once a game
In exchange, my units are far less unwieldy because they can move and keep their lethal hits and I don't have to feel like I'm taking a handicap by not using Epic Heroes (besides not taking Lord Solar, but that's modern GW for you). So huzzah?
Absolutely. I was already taking dorns, russes and blobs of infantry, and no artillery. My list got cheaper and more dangerous.
The artillery nerfs are also a slight nerf to Lord Solar and the Supreme Command Blob. Think about it: Artillery basically doesn't benefit from orders anymore, so Lord Solar's 3 orders are less important. He's still good in hybrid lists where you're not taking 3 Tank Commanders for your 3 Rogal Dorns, but I think you could genuinely consider dropping him in pure infantry or pure tank lists.
Lord Solar and the Command Blob is still cheaper than three Squadron Orders worth of Tank Commanders.
Sick I love apples to oranges.@@ragzaugustus
@@ragzaugustus
Yeah, the Command Blob is 20 pts more than a TC with Grand Strategist, but comes with one more order and a free command point
The command blob also has a Mortar to designate Fields of Fire +1 AP more efficiently and easily
Most of the rule changed with too much retriction. It actually made the guard worst. Most of the rules are just not really logic.
So ironstorm lethal hits 6" aura only for vehicles is too good needs to be nerfed, but imperial guard lethal hits rulr for basically every unit is too weak, needs to be buffed. You will never understand gw logic.
Constant rule changes is the single worst thing about this game. Where is the fun in always having to look up rules because they keep changing? Please GW, find rules for each army that is thematic and then stick with it, balance with points costs if you really have to. What's going on now seems to only be on account of the small part of the players that actually take part in tournament, so like 1%?
This change kinda sucks honestly. Took away our best strategy for winning games and didn't give us a hole lot to replace it with. What am i supposed to do now spam armored sentinels and dorns are we an elite army now?
I’ve played with it, tanks kill everything jesus christ
Mistake in the thumbnail. It should read "Broood brothers tanks for the win?"
As a fellow brood brother enjoyer, i concur
Targets sighted, Commissar!
Commisar, this one genuinely sides with the oppressors, shall I offer them the Four Armed Emperor's kindness?
@@JankTank (Fires two indirect fire shots with Basilisks. Misses twice)
Darn it, are these new artillery sights miscalibrated or something? It's like they miss half the time!
I dont think this is a great change for casual play, encouraging you to just field ungodly amounts of tanks, a lot of army's struggle to take enough anti tank to deal with the shear weight of armour we can field now. It doesn't matter about OC when you table you're apponent, and from play testing this most people I play against just don't have fun fighting tanks.
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We'll need an update once we verify whether or not Scout Sentinels will allow artillery to ignore all of the penalties of indirect fire, new ones included
I mean, the new one isn't a penalty, in the same way that "you hit only on an unmodified 6" isn't a penalty on Overwatch. It's not ignorable - not with Sentinels for us, not with Mortarion for Death Guard.
I've always wanted to start an IG mechanized/tank army but it seems I've waited too long because GW's prices are insane right now
I think its great they nerfed the arty, the game shouldn't have seriously lethal firepower your opponent can do nothing about, feels like its in a good spot game play wise, though maybe another small points drop for balance.
Multmeltas all the way! Hellhound and Russes are really really good now and i can see Tank companies absolutely annihilating the meta.
Infantry getting lethals is a massive boast, though now i will feel i actually have to fire them and time was already precious!
My beloved ogrns got nerfed...combat guard is even harder now!
Expect Russes, Dorns and Scions to all go up next time... enjoy them whilst you can!
reinforcements is completely useless now.
you have to use it as the unit gets destroyed, that was limiting enough, you had no controle over it.
if they change it to bring back a destroyed unit without timing restrictions, it will be fine,
but once per game stuff is just annoying bs, delete it.
think about why once per game works in fantasy, but not in 40k.
So.....tank meta so original GW really gw i mean its not like you said THAT HIGH AP GUNS AND TANKS ARE NOT GOING TO BE META
Welcome to the guard son
More sloppy dogshit from GW, untested and stupid rules with unforeseen consequences that hurt a 45% WR army for no reason. I've 3d printed everything and I still feel robbed. Thank you GW for forcing us all to run tank spam, what a wonderful company...
It annoys the he'll out of me that gw is so lazy. Instead of addressing artillery on a army based level they just lay down carpet rules for all artillery in the game. Just so lazy
Biggest Loosers: Super-Heavy Baneblade Variants, TC, FOBs, Anti-Infantry Russes and every Anti-Tank Infantry Weapon. Everything that basically has no more Detachment Rule because of a missing Keyword =) Nice MEME GW
this really sucks, i just finished putting together my guard army of artillery and infantry and now essentially my army is useless, the nerfs were super unnecessary and guard wont be winning any tournaments now. thanks gw :)
1st
Looks like we have a volunteer, boys! Over the top, soldier!