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Biggest WINNERS and LOSERS from the Balance Dataslate? Every 40K Army Discussed
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- Let's talk through all of the 40K armies and how they're shaping up after the dataslate changes...
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0:00 Intro
1:54 Space Marines
3:37 Astra Militarum
6:09 Adeptus Mechanicus
8:11 Adepta Sororitas
9:31 Adeptus Custodes
11:46 Grey Knights
13:04 Imperial Knights
14:41 Space Wolves
16:15 Blood Angels
17:11 Dark Angels
19:04 Deathwatch
20:52 Black Templars
22:26 Chaos Space Marines
24:34 Death Guard
26:33 World Eaters
27:16 Thousand Sons
29:10 Chaos Daemons
31:02 Chaos Knights
33:17 Aeldari
34:59 Drukhari
36:43 Tyranids
40:20 Genestealer Cults
42:11 Leagues of Votann
44:08 Orks
46:25 Necrons
49:07 T'au Empire
51:05 Closing Thoughts
52:50 Outro
I find it amusing that something called unending swarm has a limit of one reinforcement.
Yeah, GW overreacting and ignoring their own lore. One might argue it was for game blanance but Tyranids, Guard or Kroot with similar rules weren't dominating anything. If I had to guess, it was knocked down a peg with the hopes or boosting various Space Marine win rates. Those are their poster boys and best sellers.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 That would be a bad guess since they didn't do the space marines any favors
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 smells like conspiracy to me chief. Space Marines got 0 buffs and a couple of nerfs. So I ask you this, if nerfing reinforcement strats was to boost marines indirectly, why did they then go and directly nerf marines too? Wouldn't that average out to no change at all and therefore not be a buff for marines, directly or indirectly?
Dark Angels real rules change was to how devastating wounds works. Lazarus, The Lion, DW Knights and DW Terminators all getting FNP against devastating wounds is a huge buff
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised that AP hasn't really mentioned the Lion in any of his videos. Granting a 6" aura of FNP against Dev Wounds on a potentially lone op primarch is pretty huge. Dev wounds has really been the only thing that takes down my Azrael + Hellblaster blob.
@@nicholasshively1032dev wounds shredded my DWT the other day so its nice to have their watcher be worth it again
as a necron player, all i wanted was point reduction to my warriors, they too expensive
GW oversold warriors in 9th edition they dont want them to be good in 10th
Play immortals
This guy
They are still one of the best factions. The last thing they need is points reductions.
@@kirbyball97 they keep getting nothing but nerfs, and have a 52% competitive win rate because they are the 2nd most played faction.
Necron players like them for many reasons, from lore to the stat check nature of the army or even just the look of them.
As a necron player I know and understand the weaknesses in the army and there is alot of abilities and combos the necrons dont have access to. And some of the abilities necrons get are half as good as the normal version of it, triarch praetorians for example; it has fall back & charge. Doesnt get the full version to fall back, shoot & charge.
Or how The Silent King still doesnt have the triarch keyword even though he IS the triarch leader, wielding triarch menhirs and "the weapons of the final triarch" for his melee profile. Night Scythe & Doom Scythe dont get hover like other aircraft. Or how all necron wounds per model are 10 points per wound or higher while other factions get them for under 10 per wound, with reanimation nerfs getting an average of 7 wounds reanimated if they had to reanimate every command phase.
There are units that are overcosted for what they can do in the necron army compared to similar units in other factions, and with the nerf to cosmic precision Ctans now are on that list aswell.
Currently the necrons are elite level costs per model with very low wound count in the army, which makes for easy to kill units if the necron pilot makes a mistake or the opponent has good target selection.
Honestly I've experienced alot of games where my opponent just loses because of poor target selection of my units, although that is partly due to my piloting aswell.
I'm just happy the Votann finally got points for our infiltrators to help all our scouting. Also exited to experiment with nids again
Votann scouts are amazing, they are surprisingly hard to catch while throwing out annoyance fire
AdMech and Tyranids eating gourmet, DA eating good.
Exactly. Love the nid changes.
CSM eating sand
Tau are eating damn fine too, some excellent point drops for us.
@@0AbsolutZero0 Codex Space Marines would kill for sand with what they're being fed right now.
DA got their best taskforce nerfed heavily and only minor buffs to 2 of their bad ones. Eating good is an overstatement
Also, with the 'Talons of the Emperor' detachment (CUSTODES) rule: The sisters Aura will now protect the golden boys against Mortal wounds (5+ FnP), since Dev wounds are again, mortal wounds without spreading, that's another win!
We know
Still won't probably use it, I don't like rules where you have to do x and y just to get a small buff. The changes to auric and shield host I think make talons worse in comparison, Shield host brings so much more flexibility now in the damage dealing combined with the army rule, sustained on 5s, lethals on 5s or sustained and +1 AP or lethals and +1 ap, depending on what target you face you get so much more melee power when needed. +1 to wound for character units (and most custodes infantry run with characters anyway) is just solid and shield host has the 4+ fnp against mortals and now devs, which shield captain can do for free. So you can have a squad of wardens with a shield captain, -1 to wound, once per game FNP, free dev wound/mortals FNP and free -1 to hit in combat strat.
I run AdMech, Dark Angels, Tyranids, and Tau. This has been a flood of delight in the longstanding drought of despair!
I think T'au will need further buffs, but all the new codices have been nerfed more than they might need because GW have decided sensibly that it's better to release codices and have them hit the ground a bit weak (but still very playable) and buff them later than have the 2022 toxic meta happen again. They don't have enough data on anyone from Orks and Custodes onwards to get it right. Just get things closer.
I'm actually trying to get my admech fit for 10th now. They do stuff!
Nothing against divergent chapters, but at some point codex detachments are gonna have to be locked to codex only (or some big codex marine only buffs/units) if they ever hope to balance the faction(s).
Yea. It’s the only way to start fixing non-divergent chapters.
Or give divergent chapters different point costs like Chaos. It's insulting how the worst army for codex marine detachments is codex marines. lmao
The notion of not locking rules behind paint schemes sounded nice on paper, but look where that got us. Divergent chapters use the codex better than codex chapters AND their own unique detachments get to be made better but causes codex options to get nerfed, ruining it for the rest of us.
Anvil Siege Force may as well not exist for how little we hear of it actually doing anything.
@@marauder340 It's not locking behind paint schemes. It's literally just the special units. I play Deathwatch, but would be totally fine with my units only having access to DW index (needs fixin' though). However, if I don't use any DW specific units, I will use my DW painted marines as standard units to be able to play Codex SM.
As a divergent faction, yes. Please do this. I would like to be my own army again.
It baffles me that CSM got hit so hard pointswise. Warp Talons, Legionaries and to a point Vindicators I understand. But Havocs and Raptors? WHY? Predators and Venomcrawlers also didn't need to go up. It really seems like someone just looked at the very mixed tournament lists of the last couple of weeks and just slapped points on every unit that appeared more than once.
From what I've heard, apparently Havoks were a bit busted in Renegade Raiders
Predators went up because of the army rule; being able to have a Destructor with Sustained or Lethal is insane. I use them in DG and they are incredible.
Yeah, we are indeed paying for our army rule because it's one of the few that literally buffs everything. I think Havocs were ok in Renegade Raiders, but busted? Ok, tons of shots with a the Reaper Chaincanon, but still only at AP -1. I ran a Reaper squad and a Las squad in a couple of games with Renegade Raiders and wasn't impressed. The Lascanon guys do what you would expect them to do but also die to a stiff breeze and loose A LOT of potential damage every time they loose a guy. And the Reaper guys did basically nothing against targets with power armor. I think despite the lower volume of shots, taking Predators instead of Havocs is a nobrainer now.
Warp talons got overcompensated for. They should have nerfed rules or points not both... legionaries are still fine at 90 points. Double havocs 1 with chaincannons and 1 with lascannnons were pretty crazy with helbrute and mark of nurgle. Predators were one of our best gun platforms for the cost for similar reasons even before the codex dropped. Them being 130 makes them fit right into that helbrute aura bomb. Venom crawlers are actually really decent in the daemon engine detachment. Probably just a precaution and again predators can also swap to be daemon engines in the same detachment so they need to be careful all the combos they can pull
I can kinda see havocs, as they literally ignore any negative shooting modifier and have some stratagem/buff synergy across the book. Predators also were decently ok, def not as potent as forgefiends but Annihilators especially could hit decently hard.
Dg caught strays due to the indirect fire change. Hurt pbcs alot
Not just pbcs, morty, lord of virulence, and boilblight
What hurts the most is the loss of a playstyle that forces your opponent to come to you. Now we don't have a way to compensate for our slow movement.
GW pushing Guard into their vision of a vehicle spam list. Ever since the first balance pass foot guard has had all of their tools whittled away.
I just want my conscripts and to feel like my foot guard can punch up SOMEWHAT :(
The two things I love in guard are arty and tons of dudes 😢
@@keyanklupacs6333they probably don't want to make foot guard the strongest way to play since a lot of models on the board makes for long games
They were winning tournaments off of tank/ artillery and reinforcement spam. They got nerfed because they needed it, lol. 13 wins since February, and they just now got nerfs. Meanwhile, world eaters won a single tourney and lost their faction ability back in. I think october more or less, lol.
@@kirbyball97 they already fixed those issues with the last MFM, this is just pissing on the grave of a mid 40% faction at this point - between the scuffed new detachment rule, more arty nerfs and making reinforcements pointless.
@@kirbyball97 guard just lost reinforcement, artillery wholesale, even mordian glory knows foot guard is dead, so yeah 13 wins 45%winrate
I hate that most of the 50+% WR armies got wrist slap nerfs while stuff like codex compliant marines and guard outright didn’t improve. Really goes to show how clueless to balance team continue to be.
Meganobz got nuked from orbit with the nerfs
@@PepsiMagt They were massively under costed though.
@@JimH. yes, they were good, and needed a nerf. Now they are completely awful, though.
I dont know how to feel about the crisis suit points reductions. Yes, its good for Retaliation Cadre and will probably bring it up to 45% winrate unless the other factions got a lot better. However, the Kroot detachment is dead. Redeploy was nerfed, Kroot respawn was nerfed, Hammerhead was nerfed, and factions that can deal with hordes of units got uber buffed.
Firestorm SM got clubbed over the back of the head 😔
Good, it was too brain dead to use. Now it will promote thinking before going unga bunga
@@epiceg9464 It's flamers....bro sounds like you had a serious skill issue in just removing a tank with no invuls.
Pour one out for salamanders players
@epiceg9464 sounds like you've had some rough matches, man and I'm sorry to hear that. Personally I found that it has depth to it with the necessity of positioning and being in seriously dangerous range of being charged with your only defence being overwatch
@@jcoe371 "On the Anvil of War are the strong tempered and the weak made to perish, thus are men's souls tested as metal in the forge's fire."
- The big green man himself
As a CSM player, Legianaries at 90 is when I'm starting to consider Khorne Berzerkers instead, at least units not dsigned for having leaders. 85 would have felt more correct. Our best detachment, the Raiders also lose a fair bit of utility with losing the ability to advance and do actions accross the board in Pariah Nexus. Also a lot of the strats that you'd want to double up on was in that detachment. Losing 5-15% of the overall value of your army for most builds (especially if you ran more than one War Talon units) is quite a nerf. GW is so aggressive at shutting down CSM that most of us can't even get what is good ready for the tabletop before it's nerfed to pure mediocrity anyway.
That's one of the reasons I finally quit 40k. I play Tau and Chaos - the two armies GW seems to desperately want to kill off but just won't rip off the bandaid.
@@Kepora1 I just recently got back to it after a break all since 5-6ed, so I'm still learning. Stopping at finishing my two armies as long as GW keeps up the DEI lore-crap though. That worries me more long-term than rules changing and faction power tbh. If it all ends up watered down and neutered like Star Wars has become, then the lore inspiration to bother in the first place will fade away regardless if I want to or not I suspect.
For Space Marines, it’s great that Impulors and Repulsors had their transport capacity boosted to account for 6-model + 1 character units, but that was offset by overkill nerfs to the Land Raider Redeemer and Gladiator tanks, and the Ironstorm Spearhead detachment.
The Redeemer’s +25 points is a huge nerf! I believe it’s unjustified because the Redeemer didn’t suddenly get more powerful, because none of its stats or ability or points changed since the start of 10e. What has changed is that other SM units have gotten cheaper; SM lists had more points available and consequently Redeemer could fit into more army lists. Also, Land Raiders and Redeemer/Crusaders are one of the best-selling WH40K vehicles right now, which is why they’re appearing more frequently in tournaments. Just because the Redeemer is popular doesn’t mean it’s OP.
The main reason SM players use Land Raiders is its Assault Ramp allows melee units to charge in the same round as they deploy. ALL Land Raiders do that, so why was only the Redeemer nerfed? Its Flamestorm cannons are NOT +45 points more powerful than the LR’s dual lascannons. Also, the Redeemer carries 14 models (like the Repulsor now) compared to the LR’s 12 models, which means the Redeemer can transport 6 Aggressors + the Apothecary Biologis, whereas the LR can’t. If the LR’s transport capacity was increased to 14 (WHY the Repulsor and NOT the Land Raider?) the Redeemer’s popularity would trail off.
I don’t believe it was necessary to nerf the Redeemer, but if it had to get a points increase, GW should’ve started with 270 or 275 points, and only gone higher if the Redeemer was still “OP”. But the overreaction to 285 will predictably result in a points reduction 1 or 2 quarterly updates down the line.
As for the Gladiator tanks, I don’t understand why the Reaper and Valiant are back to being the same points as the Lancer, because the Lancer is a much greater threat. Is GW just trying to keep the Ballistus dread “relevant” at 140 points because its the 10e dreadnought?
I suppose Ironstorm Spearhead had to be nerfed because it is the dominant SM detachment right now. To re-balance it, I’d reduce vehicles’ OC values to make that the Achilles Heel of Ironstorm detachment, making it necessary to bring more squads to hold primaries, score secondaries, and screen objective markers.
I actually think the DG are a slight loser. Not because of direct changes to them but to indirect. It’s not the end of the world but it forces DG to now play into an aggressive play style (either for points or in your face combat) which they aren’t particularly good at. Yes getting up the table will get the contagions off but they aren’t tanky enough anymore to survive that far up the board without the indirect of the PBCs softening up the line (especially without a points drop). However DG is very slow so they NEED to invest point into rhinos and drones to compensate which forces a player to stick to one specific kind of list. PBCs can still be used as a forward tank because they are tanky demonengines but the entropy cannons are very short ranged so the spitters are definitely going to see more play. Long story short DG will probably shake out to
Death guard's best list went up slightly in cost. The pariah next changes to secondaries really hurt their viability of Nurglings which is how they band aided being the worse secondary faction in the game (there are replacements, they all cost a lot more). They do give up less bring it down and some bad units got cheaper (still bad). Though blight haulers are interesting now but just as durable nuisances for their cost once you've taken 3 drones.
I think DG needed to get a small buff (no event wins since April, and about 80% of the podium presence you'd expect., 47% WR) got several small nerfs. The changes they got made sense for April. GW didn't make the lone op protection change to typhus either which makes me think that GW haven't really thought about them seriously since last September. The sky isn't falling, but it's not a good update by any metric: the selfish "I want strong" one, the actual external balance and improvement one, or just in terms of effort and thought put into it.
Yeah, the PBC nerf is huge. The whole Morty+LoV+PBC combo was the backbone of most competitive lists. We're back to square one, unless you pivot to Chaos Knights now that they sucks less. My main gripe is there's not that good of a reason to take Morty now. He's just tanky with not that much damage for his cost.
Also, the BLTs need rules changes, not points. They hit for shit.
@@tetsuo90000 The only advantage blightlords have in been the cheapest terminators in the game and it’s obvious why and they are bad for damage but their tank is ok for the price T6 3 wound 2+ save 4+ invun at 31 points
@@user-jc7cn9tf1y But they hit like a feather duster, and have only OC1, so the best thing they can be is the slowest action monkeys in the game.... and for action monkeys, they would still be expensive!
For mobility, the blight hauler should be more viable. For 90 a piece, running a squad of three would probably terrorize any vehicles.
Reinforcements gone for Guard just kills horde guard
Everything but tank guard is dead.
Welcome back to the 9th edition my dude, where the only viable strategy for the guard was drowning the enemy in "heavy" armor units. I really hope that GW will release our codex soon and that it'll contain some good and interesting detachments for us with unique play styles.
Nids too. I feel like it kind of makes sense given the reliance on battleline units with Pariah Nexus rules, but it still feels bad not spawning 40 to 60 extra gaunts a game
@@user-xm5fs9yp7shold the line comrade 🫡
@@user-xm5fs9yp7s do u mean 9th edition period, or the 3 weeks of 9th edition codex? xD
The number of times Custodes has flipped from one extreme to the other over the last year is absolutely insane. That faction single handedly has me truly believing GW don't really know what they are doing with their game.
As a Custodes player its pretty aggravating because if you play the faction at all youd know that many of the recent GW balance changes were stupid as fuck and made 0 sense. I'm assuming not one person at GW actually plays Custodes. Like the codex for example was absolutely awful and anyone could see that. At least this dataslate seems to have somewhat fixed that.
Sick of SM getting nerfed. If they show any sign of slightly finding a positive approach to an army build they get it taken away. It’s not like they are running away with wins! What a frustrating and disappointing game 40k is.
Indeed, any unit that actually performs, even in unique armys played by one player, gets instantly nerfed. I was hyped when 10th dropped and played tons, but now my army collects dust on the shelf.
This hit DEATHGUARD harder than it looks, not getting pointscut for pbc when they lose thier main thing, and morty + lov loses thier use in the same swoop. Lowering the points on the terminators is fine but its still a unit that dont have a role as it own rules put it in two places and does none of them well. Getting only 1 granade per round and it can be free now every br is fair but hurt a bit with all others nerfs. Will still not use plauge surgion or blightbringer.
I'm trying to figure out if sentinels ending up with lethal hits all (theyre regiment and squadron) was intentional. Or if GW will be attacking guard with another nerf hammer on the next FAQ
Let's hope they let it slide. Auto cannon spam incoming lol
Nerf incoming, guard will get to 40%win rate and gw will nerf them
@@nickrivas6429may as well go plasma for the ap and lethals
Considering all of the unintentional ways we got hurt with this change like Baneblade Chassis and Tank Commanders being shafted, it's not likely it was intentional. I fully expect even more side-grades and nerfs next slate. I didn't even know Kasrkin got nerfed until I saw this video, and I've been scouring rules constantly since they dropped.
Space marines getting shoved in a corner and clubbed like a baby seal for no reason
Get sales for the other armies for 3-6 months and then give them a huge buff to make their poster children, well, poster children again
@@bradleymartinez185 3-6 months? 10th came out a year ago.
@@basteala525every balance update has made marines worse, step by step…
Well it's not "no reason." Someone on GW's "balance" team has a massive hate-on for SM.
@@bradleymartinez185 my brother in Christ, it’s been almost a year of marines slowly going downhill. We have until about September before another update
CSM basically got punished for running anti-tank units...
My Warhammer Store manager told me the Pariah Nexus Mission Deck got some typos and these cards are wrong. Also some rules are obsolet because the PDF Errata overwrite it. He said I can buy it but he must inform me that there is an issue. I decided not to buy :)
Not to bad. Horde means a 20 man you paid for not a 19 man work around. Assassin is per model not unit. And I think one of the easier ones can no longer be fixed.
Another overcorrection for CSM.
For an army at 51%... completely unnecessary
The Aeldari are nerfed even being 47%
@@henrymngmarines are 44% and get nerfs…
I don't know what part of "GW hates Tau and Chaos players" isn't clear at this point.
F in the chat for all the people who went out and bought the Kroot army hoping to play something different just to get smashed in the balls by GW rule changes after the check cleared
GW hates Tau and Chaos players? You don't say!
@@Kepora1did you not see the battlesuit changes????
@@Kepora1hey, me too! 🙋♂️
Imagine playing D&D and halfway through a campaign, the DM changes the rules to your character, making it unfun. So you go back to the drawing board and create a new character. By the time you submit your character build to the DM to start a new campaign, the rules change again.
Now imagine playing a completely different game, called Warhammer. Now imagine Warhammer has always been in a state of constant flux for years. Congratulations, you're imagining the world as it is.
@madslagsallupinthisgaff of course. This just makes the barrier to entry that much higher. They need to make a codex for each faction and leave it alone until they make the next codex. Not my fault they can't figure out balancing their own game.
To be fair most dnd campaigns don't go past lvl 7...
welcome to the mainstream.
@@ironwolf2277 Yeah they used to do that, and it made entire factions devastatingly op or barely playable for years at a time
You are wrong on death guard: Mortarion is also way worse, as the one reason to bring him is to help 3 PBCs, and not it's going to be really hard to want 3 PBCs: See the difference in damage from then to now. The indirect fire nerf, plus the grenade change, plus the prices going up for two units that are always taken at least twice just harm the good lists. Minor improvements to relatively unpopular units don't help the best lists being dismantled.
We drop at least a tier, probably two.
The days of 3 PBC are GONE, now it's pretty much 3 Predator Destructors until the next data slate "balance" where GW will increase them 25 ppm because "screw you."
@@JimH. accurate , the moment something becomes popular it will catch hands and pished back .. so they can push the next model to get people to go out and buy and rinse repeat the cycle
I'd say the born soldiers new rule for guard is broadly a nerf as it now doesn't effect close to 45 of our 89 data sheets! As it only effects units with the regiment or squadron key words, which a load of units don't have, most importantly the tank commander! So close to half our army no longer has an army rule again.
Well losing it for artillery was maybe one of the worst aspects of it. They have only managed to punish artillery in every release through point increases and then finally with this latest mess. Hard to switch over to infantry dominate lists as those too are not as useful now. Do I run all vehicles now? And how long before they nerf that?
Tank commanders are generally useless. I have to spend 205pts and maintain a short range to another tank to pass out an order. Death Befitting an Officer isn't well written and so the entire concept is needing a revamp. They appear disinterested in address any real issues until the codex, which I will not purchase.
Honestly, the Thousand Sons nerfs seem rather tame. I think the changes to doombolt and temporal surge were overdue. Only being able to cast a single ritual on a given psyker per turn sounds harsh at first, but we have the aspriing sorcerers in the squads and you can use surge on other psykers that need to cast something specific after the move etc. I honestly think that the change to reducing stratagem costs benefits Thousand Sons especially, since they can basically convert 6 cabal points to a cp now 1-2 times per turn. And Infernal Masters still auto-hit on indirect shooting, that they now could use more reliably.
I could understand the nerfs to warp talons and legionaries though nerfing and keeping so many units nerfed is a bit annoying and makes them riskier to efficiently do their job without dying immediately (Obliterators, Possessed, Havocs, Terminators, Warp Talons). Think GW trying to make people not spam legionaries backfired.
GW’s treatment of Tau’s auxiliaries are certainly an eyebrow raise. Why even bother making Kroot your selling point for 10th if you’re just gonna make them very difficult and painful to use…
Good news!
That's what you get.
I really like the change to shadow of the warp for the greater demons, feels fluffy and cool
considering all factors, tyranids are only very slight winners.
yes we finally get S10 (at least in melee) on some relevant units and can hand it out to some more relevant units. that is a big buff. we finally somewhat deal with normal tanks and terminators.
but people forget (or dont think about it, because it never happened yet) that we come into this update with one of the single biggest army nerfs in this update, being no longer able to easily and cheaply score turn 1 outside of vanguard invaders. But even with them, and starting from turn two we will still need a much larger point investment now dedicated to scoring, which in turn also makes us weaker on the battlefield yet again. And we know we were VERY weak on the battlefield before. ( I Love that 0OC scoring is gone, but we needed MASSIVE buffs to compensate)
Yes we are slightly stronger now, but not against every army, and we still cant deal with knights, daemon primarchs, ctan, landraiders or a simple leman russ in melee..
IF we had just gotten the new gamemode and no changes, Tyranids would have been the weakest army by far.
so If we start from a point without the buffs and no advantage in scoring from turn 1 and 2 of a generously 40% winrate, I think the strength buff will barely only get us up to 45% again..
couple these with extra feels bad nerfs to swarm, a defense nerf to invasion and invaders only getting some QoL stuff. I dont think they win that much..
and when my army has been at around 45% for a year now, I was hoping for something massive, and while I wished for more strength, getting it with so many negatives added ontop doesn't feel that great honestly. especially when you see other cool army that are doing better already like daemons and tau getting love they deserve in exactly the right places where everything makes sense without any negatives.
I wanted sweeping points drops accross the board to so many still heavily overcosted units, or some MAJOR strength increases on alot of monster profiles.. why a tiny ork saw is S12 and a massive Scythe twice their size is starting at S9 is beyond me...
Totally agree, ppl seem to be happy with a bit of more strength but it is totally nothing compared to what he lost with the OC zero rules. We used to score easy not any more. I = think they also should gave OC 1 at least for reaper swarm too. The Tyranids could be much more comfortable in game in this case.
@@yvesdonval7462 I 100% completely disagree.
scoring with 0OC units is stupid.
I want to play a useful army that can do stuff.
Removing the scoring was the 100% right decission.
BUT ofcourse we need to be a real army then finally. which we sadly aren't still.
Guard got abused and got super heavies treated like old yeller getting put down.
Titanic characters can do actions and still shoot but but tank to dumb to be able to park on something and fire guns like a tank is designed to do.
Titanic walkers can move through terrain but massive tank can't possibly crash through a wall. So we still can't use our big units on dense terrain boards.
Other faction super heavies can full use of their army and detachment rules no problem. Out super heavies don't get any form of born soldiers and still require a lord solar to even get an order to use our army rule.
I can understand nerfing super heavies but not only nerfing guard super heavies while buffing everyone elses. So know you will see more titanic walkers used and our one counter is fighting with both arms tied behind it's back. Even monoliths can teleport around the board.
I'll say the reason of making this changes, properly because there's other tank specials outside...just look at LoS🤦🏻♂️
I don't think all titanic walkers can move through terrain, only knights can.
Don't really get this argument, loads of detachments don't work with the whole army rule or are not suited to it. I play Blood Angels and Sons of Sanguinius has basically no impact on any shooting unit, but people still play it and build around it. Custodes have tanks that don't benefit from their army rule because their army rule is stances in melee.
Also it obvious why Knights can do actions and shoot, because knight armies are made from a handful of models and they are generally all big models. Guard have LOADS of datasheets and LOADS of cheap units to actions, so if you need a super heavy to do actions then you have done something very wrong.
@@tajj7 The difference is that Guard Supers are supposed to be in-theme with the detachment. It's a giant Russ for fucks sake. No one is expecting an intercessor to go toe to toe in melee using the Blood Angels Example, people are expecting Baneblade variants to be able to shoot and do tank things. It's not even just the Baneblades either, it affects several other units such as Tank Commanders who also can't order their own tank crews. Let's at least be honest with what happened here.
A reminder that Super Heavy Walker or an equivalent would do almost nothing on its own for a Baneblade, because it's too long and too slow to clear the stuff that was in front of it unless it moves sideway or it advances (and you still fail unless you roll at least a 2). Baneblades need their 10" move back.
Space Marine "slight losers"? Sure if we ignore Salamanders Firestorm getting nuked
Firestorm going from flavourful and fun while able to hold its own to being basically unplayable is pretty annoying.
@@jcoe371That's extremely out of reality. Unplayable? Come on.
@@Giby86 It was hit extremely hard. An army that's already in the low 40's getting it's main combo wrecked is crippling to say the least. Firestorm utilized the free 2 CP strat more than any other detachment and the points increase to its best vehicle were basically kill shots. Sure you can still play it, but don't expect to win much.
@@JimH. I know. Now, do you see the difference between what you said and "it's basically unplayable"? I mean, I know that people in this community love to be hyperbolic especially when they complain, but there's a threshold below which you lose all credibility.
DA got buffed heavily though
Havocs at 27 ppm is insanity
Retributors are 25, it's not too bad
World Eaters were the biggest winners. We were doing farily okay, and GW just said "hey, those eightbound models yall like so much? have them a little cheaper."
To be fair though, eightbound and exalted have both been overcosted since 10th came out
Quite frankly they need to revert the nerf that gutted their main rule. Barely a 50 and get gutted. Necrons were at like a 56% at the same time and got 0 changes.
Imperial Knights also won pretty nicely. We were at a 50% win rate and got points cuts to some of our best units, buff to canis rex despite him being the best big knight, 2" rotate benefits all big knights, going through all ruins benefits all big knights, tank shock nerf is only a slight nerf, and everything else was basically unchanged.
As a new codex marines player who looses all of his games, i am almost out of this hobby, this just dont make any sense.
Salamander player here, I am totally with you brother.
It will get better, maybe try to find some deathwatch players until it does?
@@benjaminseeman5826it would be a fair match hehe
I have noticed Space marines since at least 9th when I started are kinda always struggling on average but just due to their deep collection have a few very powerful lists at a time. I think part of it must be that balancing such a diverse faction is very difficult so the average marine army is struggling while a few are using the best tools and succeeding.
There will always be a time when Marines are strong, so stick around until more favorable changes. In general the sheer depth of range means there is some workable builds
How you can justify nerfing Guard and buffing Chaos Daemons is beyond me!
If I had to guess the goal is probably to make it so that their detachment rule doesn’t just affect artillery, which should help internal balance and means they can be given actual buffs in the future without indirect fire becoming an issue… not a great reason with how long said follow up buffs will be, though we do need to see how they fair with parah nexus.
As for daemons they are about to take a pretty big nerf with how much parah nexus emphasises battleline (seeing as daemon battleline kinda just sucks) which for an army who’s main strength is doing objectives kinda sucks… could be a preemptive buff, not to mention moving one of the major benefits of bringing bel’lakor to all of the greater daemons does reduce his necessity.
i really dont think guard were nerfed
@@return4887 With you on that this seems like a flat improvement, Artillery is down a bit but with how vital movement is this is a huge boost to near everything else
@@masterofthelag8414 im not an experienced guard player but when i played them compared to nids i used maybe 2 basilisks? and a frontline of guardsman and leman russ w/ rogal dorn and lord solar
it felt insanely strong compared to tyranids at least at the time and having that all have lethals now is crazy
i think the move is go heavy on leman russ and chimeras full of guardsman now since big blobs of guardsman are so bad now
i still dont think basilisks are unusable by any means
@@masterofthelag8414 It's the core rule changes that are the main nerf. No multi reinforcements, no double fields of fire, now paying 1 cp instead of getting fields of fire free with Creed. It's these synergies that will hurt
IDGAF how cheap the other Death Guard leaders get, I'm still taking the Blightspawn and Putrifier.
I mean, I'd say from a purely *strength* perspective, Guard got better. 240 dorns and 170 Scions w/ lethals against their prefered targets is fantastic, tank shock is super good for us too
The thing is, if you weren't playing mech or armored guard, you got hosed.
Guard Strats got utterly Nuked. Reinforcements once per turn, no stacking FoF or getting it for 0CP, Inspired Command now requiring you to save an order on the chance you might need it for the strat, and the arty nerf just made pointless. Most lists were built around either Reinforcements or FoF.
They really should change the the" no line of sight"rule into required sight from your other unit
I forgot to mention how several CSM tanks went up in cost, but didn't in other armies. They normally stay equal across armies.
Don't forget all the different size transports they get. CSM...here's a rhino.
When I first started playing and collecting ultramarines people said I was cheating because they are the poster boys and always good. But so far my entire time playing has been Games Workshop basically trying to prove that wrong. I always feel outclassed list wise. And I feel like I always have to work extra hard (compared to my opponent) to win.
I dont understand how GW can neglect Marines this bad. They have been bad since the start of codex releases and they continue to nerf them. WTF
I was sad for no buffs for speed freeks, only passive nerfs. Tank shock with trukk won't hit so well, and lose advantage bonus on any buggy if you wanted to use it with them. Grenades no longer work on advance moves, the whole point of speed freeks units is they can advance all over while shooting. But grenades being the only real option most speed freaks units have to reliably deal damage to high toughness/save units means a nerf to their usability makes speed freaks that much harder to use. Mek guns, or the meganobz with kill saws are all but needed to counter high thoughness and armor save enemies... but neither are ideal, and the at least sort of mobile one just got nerfed a bunch...
And then the whole movement think, basicly hits all speed freaks units except the basic bikes, being oval based vehicles you can expect to lose those 2 inches a lot of the time when moving them around through terrain especially when in bigger groups and they need to all rotate to still fit in right between buildings or the board edge....
So, spead freaks now can't harm tough enemies as well, and they aren't as fast and mobile as reliably... I know buffing speed freaks wasn't a priority since orks already have "usable" detachments so they were a lower priority but... come on.... don't got to take our worst detachment that some people love, and make it even worse... when they could easily have just made some slight buffs with minimal risk, like minus 5 pts per 3 bikers or such. Ideally... making it so buggies could be taken in squads of 1-3 so it'd feel remotely worthwhile to use stratagems on them finally, in exchange for being stuck together, would also have been a nice change to try imo... but as it is... bleh.... Oh well, still want to play them for speed and fun, but will have to see how that movement change actually feels, I could see it just feeling frusterating too often depending on the terrain setup though.
This really, really vexes me:
Imperial Guard Basilisk: -2 to Move, Advance rolls, and Charge rolls.
Death Guard Malignant Plaguecaster: -2 to Move, Advance rolls, and Charge rolls.
Eldar Nightspinner: -2 to Move, Advance rolls, and Charge rolls.
Tyranid Barbgaunts: -2 to Move, Advance, and Charge rolls.
Post Patch Tsons Exalted Sorcerer: -2 to Move and Charge rolls.
Just...why GW? Why both nerf the ability AND make it a strictly worse version of what all other armies get?
Looking forward to yet another video of post-update tournament wins for the Custodes, Mechanicus, T'au, and Votann.
I am rooting for custodes to smash all .. just for the comedy. value of it .. then the hammer will swing back 4 weeks later :).
Castellan's mark I think went down because they changed all redeploy abilities to a redeploy step, which is before knowing who goes first, which was the key appeal of Castellan's mark. Oddly though the Phobos Captain for marines didn't go down even though he has the same ability and it is clearly now worse.
Uriel Ventris is the sad one at Marines... He lost half of his Ability and did not go down a single point... He's now basically a 75 point cost Deep Strike and Abilityless cap
When you change rules this drastically and frequently it’s because you are incapable of writing good rules in the first place.
Absolutely spot on!
Bingo
You call 3 months between changes "frequently" wtf? GW has always been incapable of writing good rules even when they only did changes once a year.
The new limitation for TS it's one ritual for each Psyker model, not unit. Its a big difference.
I *guess* they're trying to improve internal balance in the SM codex, but this is going to affect the win rate. So unless they were *trying* to make them win less, it's not good news for Marines.
GWs bias against CSM just keeps on shining through. Honestly they think warp talons are busted but Necrons can have units that go up and down all day? I am glad I didn't purchase any warp talons besides the few I had from early last edition. No reason to raise points on legionaries, venom crawlers, etc and I still say Abaddon is far too expensive for his 10th edition codex profile. Either lower his points significantly or give the guy some kind of buff like -1 off total wounds done to him and T6. As he is no one is going to follow him, and it's interesting he is the chosen of all the Chaos gods but they literally give him nothing. Removing the marks on him was bunk. Possessed got nerfed hard 10th edition and points don't compensate for the nerf. Then let's not get to all the stuff move to legends like our space marine equivalent dreadnaughts. For real GW constantly does CSM dirty. It's a pathology at this point.
Abaddon stil pay for his 9th edition wound cap. In other hand loyalist primarch also garbage.
Lol they killed my artillery build 😢
Ya rip my ww1 krieg army
Yep! I've basically had to rebuild my list, I play against Deamons mostly too and GW "easy mode" army getting a buff is beyond madness. I'm literally going to get curb stomped into oblivion by the second round every game now.......................
Good, artillery builds are not good for the game…
@lohikaarmeherra-1753 lol I mean they are just inverse of run in swarm builds? I get liking one over the other but saying they shouldn't exist is just wanting only your military strategy to exist and that's not how war works.
@@michaelsmith953If tabletop worked like real war T'au would have a 90% winrate and melee heavy builds would be in the single digits.
For Imperial Guard, Reinforcements nerf was too much. It did need reigning in but I think changing it to "once per turn" instead of "once per phase" or not being allowed to revive a revived unit would have been fine.
I just do not get the csm nerfs they were not overpowered except maybe a couple detachments seems crazy. Definitely not eldar or neuron levels of dumb but hey I love playing a game where the cost of my army swings by hundreds of points every few months while not actually achieving any kind of semblance of balance
I’m disappointed they still haven’t done anything to Annihilation Legion or Obeisance Phalanx.
AL needs a full rework, but some overlord and triarch keyword updates to the characters that are weirdly missing them might just give OB what it needs.
As a Dark Angels player who didn't enjoy the ironstorm spearhead list I consider myself a winner here.
Auspex on fire this week! Thanks mate!
You forgot that Guard got hit with a massive nerf in the fact that Reinforcements is now a once per game effect.
GK is going to also really feal the tank shock change since it was very nice with the GMNDK/NDK with their weapon strength compared to their terrifyingly bad toughness score. And while yes NDK going up by will impact lists by 30-40 points, GK doesn't really have the wiggle room units to adapt as easily.
Another balance patch where i agree with virtually everything except the Space Marine changes...like wtf are they even doing at this point.
They think Codex Marines are a top 5 army because divergents are doing good by using their detachments but with their own unique units. It's fucking irritating as hell.
@@basteala525 The divergent Chapters should be locked to "Gladius only" from the main codex, and then given 3-4+ of their own unique detachments in their codex supplements.
As a guard player, I now cry when the dice roll less than 4. But hey, this is why I have 4 other armies so that when GW takeith away. I can still benefit where GW giveith.
Have to agree with all of the comments around Death Guard being hit harder than the points changes would suggest. I'm sitting here staring at 3 PBCs and a LoV wondering if they are even worth fielding now.
Seriously. That's 500 points-ish that we have to figure out how to replace.
@@tetsuo90000 10 units of poxwalkers, done
I feel cheeky for saying it, but I think the 'Nids still need a little more. Also Unending Swarm got done dirty imo.
How many games have you played with the new balance skate? And be honest.
The only thing Nids need now are some points increases.
Yeah, as someone who loves horde Nids I'm a bit miffed. Bringing back entire carpets of gaunts/gants was just fun
@edwardguise6440 you mean points drops, why does a carnifex cost the same as a haruspex?
@@jacket2848 probably one game in my grand total of like four, but I can't remember if that was before or after.
The warboss ability says "da biggest and da BEST": when you call a Waaaaghh!, until the start of the next Battle round, add 4 to the attacks characteristic of this model's melee weapons". It is an ability that lasts for a period of time, specifically a Battle round (your turn and that of your opponent). And the faq says: Q: If a model has an ability that triggers when you call a Waaagh! and that model is embarked within a Transport when this happens (e.g. a Warboss’ Da Biggest and da Best ability), does that ability take effect? A: No. Abilities do not take effect while units are embarked within Transports unless they explicitly state otherwise. The answer says that it does not apply WHILE units are embarked. When they disembark they are no longer subject to that restriction.
I'm super dense and don't understand why the pure tide neurochip does nothing. Could someone explain?
I think the Drukari cone out ahead. If i understand the new movement rules right you get free pivots on raiders which will make movement smoother. I suppose it could also be milked for a lot of mildly scummy tricks (i don't plan on it) but even just being able to turn my ship in the direction it intends to go for free seems like a boost.
The fact that Blood Angels and Votann had no point changes whatsoever makes me think they are the next 2 Codex being released (not counting a possible Agents of the Imperium Codex)
Woah woah woah; 43:06 - "cant use ruthless efficiency on transported units"? I looked up and down the FAQs looking for that rule, and cannot find anything about this. This is the only rule that made my friend's Plague Marine blobs handleable by my Votann. Where is this located?
Edit: found it. It is in a *fourth* rule document. Why on gods green earth does GW separate all their rules changes into so many different sources? I am not scared of complicated rulesets or looking up interactions, but why the hell would you update rules in *four different large documents at once*?
Index?
For the custodes, we need another faq on one of the stratagems for Auric champions, the one that lets you "switch target" after you killed your selected unit, it has the old wording of the detachment :(
Shame because if that gets fixed, it has a real potential alongside shieldhost
Why did they nerf CSM so hard?! It doesn't make sense
Csm catching nerfs when there book hasn’t even been out a month is wild to me considering we went through 6 months of unnerfed necron ctan and teleporting due to “not enough data” by January
Admech FINALLY get a better treatment than just drop point🙈 praise the Omnissiah🙏🏻
Still, there's quite a lot of bugs need to fix (wrong FnP, not enough Attack...) and points need to be SLIGHTLY lower (poor Breacher QAQ) but for now, I'll enjoy the result for serval months🙏🏻
Where is confirmed that kasarkin cant take double orders?
the loser is whoever actually arranged the updates. It took me 2 hours to figure out admech got both the dataslate changes *and* the erata changes when it dropped; I only realized there was more because the metawatch article talked about firing decks on the dunerider and I couldn't find it anywhere.
Space wolves have their own devestators and tactical marines so no changes there
Battle suit armies are feasting with this update. 90 point broadsides is crazy
That was the previous cost so yea. They should be there.
Glad to see Crisis/Commander varieties getting cheaper, although the Sunforge are still struggling in their supposed anti-armor role.
But the 3rd one is 120pts
I know we traumatized everyone at the beginning of the edition, but the Eldar didn’t need more heavy points nerfs at 47% win rate. It added like 60 points to most of my armies.
I feel as if I should be mad at the fact that my nun list has gone up from 1.7k to 2.1k but at the same time I was waiting till I had 2k to get them on the table for the first time. Even with point rises the new strats and buffs to all characters and units is nuts and the fact that all detachment starts are battle tactic I can get them all for free with a cannones even with the new rule for free starts
Auspex I watch all your videos and you're spot on 98% of the time, the best 40k channel around without question. But when you get it wrong, you get it WRONG. Space Marines are hard losers with these changes. I'm not sure why you keep doubling and tripling down with the "slight losers" mantra. The captain changes are a nerf no matter how you spin it, Ironstorm was hit hard again, Firestorm just trashed and Gladius hurt by proxy. Yes the transport capacity increases are nice, but in no way offset the crippling points increase on LRRs, the nerf to 2 CP stratagems with Rites of Battle and the MAJOR nerf of not being able to double down on stratagems like AoC, Immolation protocols (Firestorm) and Storm of Fire/Honor the Chapter (Gladius). Codex marines are struggling barring some outliers (pretty much guarantee the LRR nerf was in response to the guy who won a tournament with 3 LR and Gladius) and getting nerfed over and over with each data slate is mind boggling.
Well thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! Maybe I was a bit optimistic about the captain strat changes. I'd certainly agree it's a nerf for Firestorm, and didn't mean to imply otherwise. I'd honsestly still say there's some pros and cons for Gladius and Vanguard though. Lots of lists were running a Land Raider Redeemer, but not all of them that I'd seen do well.
You're right bro, they are a hard losers
GW is just deadset on trying to hurt CSM as much as they can get away with it. I am 100% convinced whoever makes points just actually hates CSM.
You could not be more wrong about how the stratagem change affects Main Codex Space Marines. It was big nerf for them. Battle Tactics were our best stratagems and Mercy is Weakness and Immolation Protocols no longer go to zero Command Points. It just isn't worth taking a Captain for Rites of Battle anymore.
Maybe I've been a bit optimistic about the captain changes! Certainly agree that it's a nerf for firestorm, though I don't think I saw anyone regularly running a captain in Ironstorm (or Guilliman)
Oh I wouldn't say it's not worth taking a captain, many of them have very good secondary special rules. But they definitely got a nerf with the no longer free 2 CP strats and making them all unrepeatable.
@@JimH. To be clear, I'm not saying Captains are garbage (though they do cost too much), just that Rites of Battle is extremely bad now.
@@VegtamTheWonderer It's not "extremely bad" dude. I get where you're coming from and this is a big nerf, but a free strat once per turn is still a free strat once per turn. Now I WILL say that captains should probably all be decreased around 5 points per to reflect this. Of course Aggressors, Inceptors and the Invader ATV all need significant drops as well and GW is utterly tone deaf when it comes to balance so I'm not holding my breath.
@@JimH. Rites of Battle is better than a blank space, sure, but the changes make it and similar other abilities worse in every way for Space Marines, while simultaneously making it better for everybody else. That's why it's "extremely bad." As with many of the other changes, it makes it clear that the balance team has ZERO idea how the Space Marine army works and doesn't care to know.
I am so happy that I bought 3 Kroot Huntingpacks for a pure Kroot army :)
All Kroot?
All KROOOT?!
I betta not cutch you on the battlefield. 😡
My Onagers are crab raving with joy right now.
Is there a new Codex coming out this year for Aeldari?
The change to Born Soldiers makes it not kick in if you don't have LOS, but you can still move your manticor to get LOS and have Born Soldiers.
Question about Tyranids. I honestly think non-synapse armies have gotten worse, mostly because Biovore has become almost useless. I play Vanguard Onslaught, and even though I like the new models, they are still outclassed by others. Obviously Crusher Stampede is still bad, and Unending Swarm is dead, but I feel like non-leadership/synapse armies have also gotten worse.
They did my kroot so bogus for no reason
where is the confirmation for the kasrkin double order issue?
I really don't understand why they keep buffing Tyranids. If you play them properly they are already one of the strongest units in the game, mostly because they can put double the models on the table for half the point cost, and those models deal 3x the damage as yours
Reinforcements being once per game is CRINGE, my pure infantry list is suddenly far less viable...
I'd argue guard are better now but I play more direct tank guard, not all that heavy on artillery. Born Soliders was awful generally before, this is such a massive hike to it's reliability and *actually being able to move and still get it* is massive. (also yeah rip wyvern but that's just in general this edition, it never should have lost half it's shots for twin linked given it you know, already had built in twin linked anyway).
Mechguard did well, but any other style is gonna be dead.
Sucks when guard was already kinda meh
I was heavy artillery so this nerfed me into the dirt...but idk I play so casually I don't mind losing every game
I play a krieg army that is straight from ww1 so this was a heavy nerf to me
I had a infantry heavy list backed up by arty which has been hit hard by the nerfs. I could swap out to a more vehicle heavy list but I don't want to have to buy more sentinels and a Rogal Dorn or two just to be viable. Knowing GW, by the time I got what I needed to rebuild my army the Codex / next balance dataslate will drop and it'll all change again
They're better for YOUR style, but for others, it's garbage.
Indirect fire question: does the desolation squad ability still allow them to ignore the new “always hits on 4+” for indirect fire, or are they now just a 200pt 5 man unit that also hits on 4+ with indirect fire?
Good god you crank out videos. I admire your dedication
Maybe now DA players will stop ruining the stormraven for everyone else 😃
Kult of Speed needs some Tyranid-level fixes. So maybe this time next year! Aircraft could be slightly more playable too without impacting comp tables.
dark angels got a good buff as well with the changes to feel no pains against mortal wounds for the lion