Because of Godwyns connection and close relationship with dragons. An entire group has of knights were created because of it and Vyke was one of them. A dragon knight.
I think i know why Ranni chose Godwyn… he was her polar opposite destiny and rune wise, he was highly favoured as a demigod yet wasn’t the heir to the golden order. Out of him Mohg and Margott he’s the only one born of Godfrey that isn’t afflicted by the Crucible, making him free to live as he pleased without the burden of ambition or fate - as opposed to Ranni whose fate was allegedly connected to the stars sealed by Radahn. I feel like every demigod had their own fate, and because initially Godwyn had none, once Ranni took it upon herself to set deathrot upon the land and scheme with the Numen Black Knives, his fate then became as a tool towards his half sisters machinations, intertwining and sealing his destiny
Yes! We haven’t had an in-depth Godwyn Lore ever. Most videos on Godwyn typically retread item descriptions, and avoid any narrative and contextual implications. Even if we may disagree in some aspects, this one is very insightful
another comment on this video sort of gave me a bit of eureka moment (shoutout to @LordKnightBane who woke me up to the idea and inspired this theory). WHAT IF..... Lansseax is actually Godwyn's secret consort and thus the very reason he was assassinated? A demi-god partaking in dragon communion would surely be heresy of the highest (golden) order. WHAT IF.... Marika forbade her son (Godwyn) from marrying Lansseax, but he outright defied her and did it anyway, a la "the things i do for love..."? Surely, such treason and defiance can only be paid for in blood and curse - to spurn any would-be demigods from ever attempting anything similar... so a plot to kill a (demi)god unfolded, but Ranni intervened and 'saved' Godwyn from dying a true, irrevokable death (for what reason, i do not know). WHAT IF.... Godwyn went to fight and defeat Grand (Lich) Dragon Fortisax for more than friendship and to prove his strength?... what if he did so, to gain his approval and permission to marry Lansseax and form an unbreakable bond (to solidify the alliance) between man and dragon? as is standard for G.R.R.M storytelling; the male head of the family has to approve a marriage before it can be sanctioned. This would explain why Fortisax fights as hard as he does to win an impossible battle in order to save a man who is quite literally bound by blood in family!!! Godwyn could be Fortisax's actual brother-in-law through his courtship with Lansseax, and be the catalyst for a revival of the age of the dragons. A truly legitimate and undeniable intermingling of the Golden Order and the dragons. bro, this makes so much more sense than "and then he went and beat a dragon because lulz he is strong and handsome so why not". Fortisax is fighting with all he's got to save the father of his unborn nephew/niece - to literally save his lineage - the future elden lord of the realm and king of dragonkind. HOW ABOUT THAT FELLAS?
Short response: I really think you're onto something with this. Long response: I started drawing a lot of the same parallels between ER and DS as you did not too long ago. I started putting more and more together but I stopped in a panic because my confidence in my train of thought made me think I'd actually figure things out. I want to play the DLC first, savor the mysteries and reveals, so I've been staving off my desire to listen to more lore videos, but I couldn't ignore the subject of this video and how neatly it parallels with the ideas I was having.
Good video and I think all is pure speculation. There is no way to know this (or claim to know this) The role Miquella will play or has played is also important and cant be guessed (yet)
So I have a theory or addition that naws at me and I feel like maaaybe could help this theory?? I am convinced there's something up with the fact Merika and Radagon have trouble creating children themselves. Or Merika has some issue with that, because (this is def some game of throne influence) Merika and Radagon honestly feel very like Circi Lanister and her brother vibes. Like why need to go out and find other suitors/elden lords anyway? Because they're so powerful they can't create children, which is a classic fromsoft trope. The amber egg also gives clear reference to this. Why do they need an egg of unborn demigods? How can they afford to give that away? Why doesn't it work the same for Rennala as it clearly had in the past. Like clearly, there were children before and after, Radagon (so hence Merika gifted it to her, why would she be so gracious to give her childbearing ability, except that she found a new one). Also, huge point, what is a cruicible? It's a container used to mix metals. I think Merika reresuses the old gods through the cruicible (hence why she banned it, like the shadow realm and fire while actively using it herself, because people could also use it to harness power against her) she defeats and remakes them into her own family, utilizing and storing their power under her banner, but the leaching of the previous power comes through and betrays her. If you look at the demigods, almost all of them have defining characteristics of an outer God of some form, which makes sense if she recycled them lol I also think perhaps this also explains "the missing god" of plasidusax. How tragic that his god was actually taken by his rival, never to return to his previous (possible) lord. Possible even used to destroy him, dragons, etc. Hence, Could that be godwyn??? And he just realized and went against Merika? Just thoughts lol awesome videos Jack, as usual!!!!
I’ve been telling people for months that this is a story about how the golden order or the main outer god is trying to kill its off springs (aspects of itself) through the birth of marikas kids. So marika in the story is actually tryna keep her family alive. It’s the golden order the other outer gods and markka and Melina trying to sway you in all these different directions
P.S. I say Golden Order is the main outer god because I creates life and it seems like through (death) intelligence was granted to the lands between death is the same level as golden order and they work together is mother and father of the outer gods
If you said Placidusax banged Marika it would have been more convincing. Radagon is just part of Marika, like St Trina is part of Miquela. It's some alchemical mumbo-jumbo stuff. But everything else checks out, specially since Radagon's children all have red hair, Godfrey's have white hair as seem with Morgott (since Mogh is bald), so Godwyn is Marika's child with someone else.
@@JackisaMimicWhile I don't doubt that it's possible that Radagon could be a mimic at times, my feeling is if one were to breed with a mimic the child wouldn't have aspects of what the mimic was pretending to be in previous forms but more that of the mimics true essence of a mimic. I think perhaps it is more likely Marika might have had an affair with a dragon in the guise of a man, perhaps the dragon Godwin had made friends with and why the dragons aligned with Marika and the Golden order
The fury sword says it’s made out of scales, feathers, all life and the shadow realm is like the old crucible maybe messmer was the one who truley made it which would make sense considering the flame created new creatures. Or maybe that was flower crucible age when the great hand split into 3 and 2
perhaps because Godwyn earned his right to communion (permission granted from Fortisax after proving himself to him) and Messmer might have done it in a more heretical fashion, hence the theme of snakes being one of his trademarks which implies blasphemy, much like Rykard who indulged in similar sin.
Jack, coming out of the gates swinging with this one. You had me on the edge of my seat. This answered so many questions I've had for the game for some time. I was skeptical at first that the Sun Realm was Faram Azula but you've convinced me. I always wondered who the undead we saw raised were, and now it clicks into place with their armor and weapons, they were fighters likely for the 'Sun Realm', as we know their are humans depicted in the statues of Faram Azula, alongside the beast-men and dragons. I gotta say this is the first real comprehensive video on Godwyn and its theories and I like how you're not afraid to lean into them. I think a lot of people gloss over how grandiose and inspirational the story of Elden Ring can really be and Godwyn or even Radagon being a dragon feels like a huge and grandiose revelation. As always you brought plenty of awesome speculative evidence from the game itself. Very nice work! This really makes me think what I've posed before, that the Lord of Sotrmveil Castle was sacrificed like how Godwyn was supposed to be, and that's why that giant dead face is down there.
Faram Azula also could be from the city in the dlc trailer that looks to be having some parts of its building or part of the city itself ascending into a vortex of some sorts. Which also looks like that's where we will fight that "Chinese dragon" boss. All speculation obviously on my part.
I have a feeling Godwyn will be the actual final boss of the DLC and he will say, "your Elden Ring hand it over, for my femboy's painting". Also I just had a wild idea that why Ranni and Godwyn both died to create the hallowbrand rune is because Godwyn represents the sun and Ranni the moon and together the eclipse! :0 Also, could that painting of that woman in the DLC with that old man be Lansseax and maybe she birthed Godwyn?
This is pretty spicy and I do appreciate confidence when delivering these lore hit pieces - a certain flair, for good measure. It's a lot to process, especially because it deals with things that tend to sit in the back, the so called established facts: Godwyn is just meant to be the golden best boi who dun died badly. So that Godwyn's relevance is entirely centered on his nature *after* his half-death, which leads to these mute assumptions of (in)significance. And that's why it's always exciting when someone points at the assumed "obvious" and illustrates the case is otherwise. And it starts best with pretty basic questions. Perhaps the perfect one is that used here: asking about Godwyn's parentage, the quickest way for people to realize they have assumptions, rather than answers, that sit quietly in the back of the lore room without anyone having checked their tickets. I also appreciate this more conventional and shorter format, a counterpoint to your more novel approach which I personally have found harder to process (my own problem, of course). Also, as far as the DLC goes (the trailer I mean), I was really intrigued by the "lion" boss more than most things. Not because of its exotic design/skeleton (which is cool), but because the little bros in there can clearly wield golden lightning, which is a very suspicious tool for a culture that precedes Erdtree rule. "Lions" and golden lightning, would you look at that... mhm.
Thank you for the appreciative comment! Those Black Swordsman videos are for me, these videos are for the rest of you 😜 Expect more videos like this in the future, with a BSM finale(hopefully) end of the year
@36:30 "past the hooded statue of Radagon". A statue with the glow of ancient dragon scales radiating out of it. After you convinced me that this hooded figure is Radagon in previous videos I jumped to the conclusion that Radagon must be draconic in some way since his statues sometimes are filled with dragon scales (smithing stones). Considering the Nox created Dragon Kin soldiers with ice lightning.. maybe they kept working on their recipe and added in some smithing stones to eventually forge the mimic tear that would become Radagon.
Jackious minicous voice is the best bedtime lullby.all while delivering the most insightful lore knolwdge Thank you, Jack, for posting Every single video you upload brings joy to me 🎉
The symbol of the dragon cult, is a city on fire with a dragon crawling up one of its towers. The minor erdtree church has grafted gold braches, with a 1/3 success ratio. No item insinuation any blood relation to Marika. This video has far more evidence for then against, but it takes patience and constant questioning. Amazing video dude. I was under the impression of Marika being Godwyn, but perhaps she usurped his power. Stormcaller church is where ive been telling people a Frankenstein like being comes into play. But not from Godwyn's body, more like a rememberance, used to sculpt a statue of dragon scales, with a regenerative sacred tear at its core, and lightning blessing it back to life. Its the form of Godwyn, but it is somehow Marika/Radagon in the form of a draconian after. I think Sellen's questline is the key, a soul put in another body to stay alive forever. But when the golden order forms via Radagon, law of regression could in this scenario, explain how Radagon can revert to Marika, while always having Marika's soul inside him. This is pretty genious of Marika, because she had someone become a god, who always looked to her as a god that created him.
Respectfully, most fromsoft theories originate from ifs, head cannon ideas, etc. I'm not sure how this is much different. I think Jack is spot on in dissecting what we know about godwyn and trying to tie that in to the overarching lore of the world. The core ideas here are solid and as always Jack does an excellent job at taking these ideas and making a narrative that's engaging.
Latching onto your idea that Miquella is the mastermind behind quite a lot of the significant events in the history of Elden Ring including the Night of Black Knives... I had an epiphany... What if Miquella really is trying his best to restore his beloved brother... Messmer. What if the third figure in the Haligtree statue with Miquella and Malenia is their brother Messmer. For Miquella to travel to the Lands of Shadow he deft behind a soulless body. Ranni's soul must occupy a doll to be present in the Lands Between - a body with limitations that must slumber from time to time... The soulless body of a demigod like Godwyn might make a fine vessel for a soul stranded in the Lands of Shadow. My current head cannon is that Marika/Radagon set up the Tarnished banishment/return scheme as a contingency if their demigod children could not manage to slay the Elden Beast. Their preferred plan was for their demigod children to become powerful enough to slay the beast. And now Miquella is coopting the Tarnished as a contingency for his own schemes when his preferred plan failed. Because Miquella requires an actual eclipse (as well as the metaphorical one) to complete his Messmer revival scheme. But Radahn halted the stars. So Miquella sends his undefeated blade to defeat Radahn so the eclipse can occur. After Malenia fails Miquella turns to the Tarnished as a fallback to defeat Radahn. This take feels even more plausible if we consider that Godwyn is not the son of Marika or Radagon. If he's the son of Godfrey and a dragon then he's not even related by blood to Miquella, Malenia, and Messmer. "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." Miquella's prayer may actually be for his brother stranded in the Land of Shadow... and he may care very little about Godwyn..
IKR, like im at the godwyn's corpse part and It's totally wrong due to the mermaid and japanese myth side of that imagery and a lot more, but he's so confident i keep watching.
Ok hear me out. WHAT IF Godwyn and Ranni both were supposed to be apart of the ritual but REVERSED. It was supposed to destroy Ranni's soul and godwyns body. Then it would allow ranni the empyrean to be taken in as a replacement for marika and godwyn the golden would be the new elden lord. Two people one body and an empty shell/puppet like we see marika at the end of rhe game. Ranni would have reasons enchant the knives and mess it up (one is to pretend to do her part and the second would be to get freedom from the erdtree.) Also killing the rebellious Ranni's soul would make her obidient. The black knives had connection to marika after all. But the world didnt know Marika is Radagon so when the ritual gets botched how are they gonna explain it??? They cant so they get hunted down as murderers and eventually spin the block and get beat by a mad blaidd and get my boy iji as revenge for what ranni did. And what if the golden glowing person at the end of tge trailer isnt even miquella Miyazaki said they are related to miquella. What if it is godwyn the golden attemting (or succeeding)to take his body. He would die a true death a be reborn as a new elden lord. A with miquella's power to compel he might be able to maintain control over they consiousness. Or it might be a perfect symbiotic being who knows
Godwyn always reminds me of Baldur from viking mythology. He was not supposed to die but Ultimately did. The parallel isn't exactly the same but it does have some relation. Also your theory is pretty good.
@@eldendad5743 yeah, he's for sure inspired in him, he's after all described as the perfect god all around, and it was another god, loki, from the same family, in a gathering, who planned his assasination, similar to Ranni. Even after every creature in existance swore an oath to keep him safe, Loki managed to get him killed. Similar to how the Night of the Black Knives played out. We get referenced specifically that it was the first recorded death of a demigod, as in, in the Golden Order with death sealed in Maliketh's sword, nobody thought it was possible to actually kill a demigod.
32:08 because Rani’s body is dead and can no longer grow. Godwin’s body ISNT dead, just his soul. So it makes sense that death could contort his body into something representive of death (sea critters, because Miazaki does have a bit of an ocean = death thing going on in his stories)
Godwyn being a dragon himself is an excellent idea, as well as the comparasion between Hoarah Loux/ Godfrey, and Robert Baratheon. The sun realm might have just been the previous (or A previous) installment of the Elden Ring's shape and "power", so the previous Order that was related to Gold, civilization, intelligence, but also life, and death, with Farum Azula as the capital city.
I noticed some parallels between Marika & Godfrey with Danaerys Targaryen & Drogo, mainly in that both Marika and Danaerys were Godlike royalty that came to a land governed by a different culture that celebrated competitions of brutality, strength, and bloodsport, with the khals and Hoarah Loux having their crowns warranted with strength before they became rulers of their respective people.
@@ArchosaurArchon that's actually a very interesting observation, you're right. The valyrian people do have some kind of godly power, and come from afar - the numen are described similarly, their name referring to them being godlike, even. In the story of Westeros, too, once the Targaryen arrived, they waged war against multiple divided kingdoms and united them all into a single country - somewhat similar to the Lands Between, where the Erdtree aligned waged war against "everything" in the beginning, as an incantation says.
Thats an amazing theory, i juet have a problem with Placidusax fake ER part, Marika most likely wasnt the first God, Dragons are way older then humans, Placi is on a place with an Ancient despiction of the Elden Ring, there is no reason to doubt that a dragon was an Elden Lord once.
The main conclusion of Age of Duskborn ending is Resurrection of Godwyn by bringing Eclipse that casts Dusk. Mending Rune of Death Prince represents Eclipse.
4:00 I disagree, I believe Placidusax's god and consort was the Twinbird. The Elden Beast was just an envoy for the Greater Will. 17:00 I disagree again, the banished knights were enemies of the dragons, Ekzykes was a revenger against those who committed dragon order communion
Something I have been questioning since I read the description of the Curse Mark of Death, how did Ranni preform the ritual on herself at the same time that Godwyn was slain? And my theory has always been some sort of celestial event that was happening around the lands between all at once. Surely, she was up at the top of the tower watching and waiting, for the eclipse.
While it's very commum to associate Morgott and Mogh being Omens due to Godfrey association with the Crucible, it just proves a lack of understanding of the concepts. First, the Erdtree, as well as other trees at the time, were growing from the trunk of the Greatree. This is the crucible, exactly as we see in the helmet of one of the Crucible Knights. This is why they say "life was blended together" all types of life were growing from the same trunk, however only the Erdtree prevailed. Now look at Godfrey, does he look like an Omen at all? Sure he is portrayed as a barbarian as Horrah Leux and has beasts, horns and the crucicle associated with his image, but does he look like an Omen? Absolutely not. The thing is, when you graft a plant onto another's trunk, it will produce it's own fruits, but after some time the roots start to "corrupt" this grafted tree and the fruits will start to resemble the ones originally produced. Thats why Omens exist.
Are miquella & Godwin based of hypnos & Thanatos from Greek mythology it’s seems like it. hypnos is the god of sleep and Thanatos is the god of death and their brothers only their twins and Godwin and him aren’t but idk lol
Maybe Godwyn was supposed to "feed" Erdtree? Similar to to erdtree burial and michella waterimg the halig tree with his own blood (and maybe the creation of the erdtree itself with the bodies of the crucible. I mean, it is becoming quite clear that the erdtree is depend on blood and flesh. So maybe this was an intend to get a new golden era of the erdtree. Most characters are not really affected by the fact that Godwyn has been murdered but are mourning about the fact that he failed to die. Just a thought i got while listening to your video.
Amazing. Thank you, truly. I just wanted to mention two little things you might be interested in: in the church/cathedral of dragon communion you can see the ancient dragon fell from the sky and broke into the building, implying the church was already there. That would help more accurately date the destruction of farum azula with regards to the "Norman" or "Fringe" era. Secondly when you were listing off "Norman" castles, there is one location you might want to look at for yourself. The lower sections of the Haligtree, specifically the outer ring of Elphael, is built in Norman style. It is built in a different style than the other rings. The huge, brownish, decorated walls, towers, etc. of the Haligtree (lavishly carved with Miquellan prophecies) is even seen to be built ON TOP of this older, castle-like wall. I noticed this in the area just below the "Drainage Channel" site of grace. Seriously, from one lore nerd to another please check it out.
Oh wow excellent thank you! I have to think on the information about the Dragon Church’s and try to figure an order of events that seems the most logical. Thanks for the heads up on Elphael, that’s going to probably help me for part 2!
@@JackisaMimic One more thing, if you're going to look at it: keep in mind the purpose of water. The site is called Drainage channel because it is releasing water from inside the tree, from what I presume is for the purpose of keeping flowing water to quell the scarlet rot, but that is just a guess. What really confuses me is that that area at the bottom of Elphael looks like it was once a piece of real land, but has crumbled away. Look just north of the church where the pests are. A majority of the tree is under water as well. Makes you wonder what was there before Miquella.... I could go on and on. But thanks for hearing me out!
Thanks for sharing, you really shared something to think about! To me, I think it helps reinforce my opinion that the Haligtree may be much older than we expect
I think you’re on to something here. Radagon at large is still unexplained, but him being a dragon previously makes a lot of sense. Wouldn’t be surprised if we get more dragon lore in Shadow
41:25 ay ay ay gotta stop you there for a second; those who live in death do in fact have souls, these are souls that are forced to live on in their dead bodily husks, Rogier and Fia makes sure the player is explained this so there can be no doubt as to their nature. heck, even D the hunter of those who live in death (what a title lol) will go out of his way to say that these are accursed souls that must be expunged for daring to poke a hole in the 'flawless logic' of the golden order - their existence is paradoxical to the laws of the lands between. they reveal the fickleness of the gods, and so an extermination process is currently taking place, very similar to that of the Omen and the Albinaurics whose very existence have similar "problems" for the golden order.
I think you misunderstood him here. He isn‘t calling those who live in death soulless, he called the remains they inhabit prior to deathroot, soulless. Nobody really died in the golden order and souls have been floating around anyways to fuel the erdtree, what I wonder is weither post godwyn these remains had their original souls return to their graves or if it‘s just randomized as long as they have a body to inhabit.
See my main problem with this theory is that there really isn't any evidence that Godwyn is a bastard, all we really have is a lack of confirmation that Godfrey is Godwyn's father but as the saying goes absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Still a really well put together video, even if I don't really agree with any of the arguments in it.
I think that is the point, though. There not being concrete information on his lineage is supposed to make us question it, not that he is automatically a bastard, but we can’t rule it out since it isn’t official. Imagine if such a rumor were to spread in the Lands Between, what would that do to Godfrey or Godwyn’s reputation and how they would react? It doesn’t have to be true for it to have an impact, the Lands Between is home to liars and cheats aplenty as Ranni tells us
Love the theory but unfortunantly i disagree with it almost entirely. I dont remember where but somewhere in the game it straight up states Godwynn as the first demigod. As for Godrick we really dont know who his parents were but me personally i think him and Godefroy are brothers and sons of Godwynn. I believe the golden lineage brothers marched on Leyndale together but Godrick coward out and thats why we see Godefroy locked up in an evergaol and Godrick is being protected by his caring uncle Morgott(this is also how i believe he survived his encounter with Melenia, Morgott saved him). Morgott did this because they are the last living remenents to the most beloved demigod and his thought to be dead brother. While i would love to hear more Godwynn theories, cause theyre sparse, make sure you read absolutly everything in game about or seemingly related to Godwynn. Love the theory and vid though, crazy theories are what i strive for
Also the dragons gave in to the golden order because Godwynn (only a demigod) slayed the most powerfull ancient dragon. Imagin if someone considered number 3 of the most powerfull slayed your number 1... Yeah they wouldve given up because none could even fathom to compare to their elden lord, Godfrey.
I would recommend listening to the Great Rune section again. It seems you are confusing the two ways the game uses the term Demigod. One is for direct descendants and children of Marika, the other is a Royal Title. Godrick's Great Rune reads: "The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage" Yet, when we kill Godfrey we get the tag "LEGEND FELLED", do you think that Godfrey is a child of Marika based off of this item description? Or we have the Carian Great Runes: "Rykard/Radahn was amongst the children of Rennala and Radagon, who became demigod stepchildren after Radagon's union with Queen Marika." Radagon is Marika, so they were always demigods and children of Marika. Do you think they were not children of Marika until Radagon married her, or do you think that this is being used as a title in the royal family? To me, this is a bit of trickery in their word choices, and another example of duality in Elden Ring, where one word can have two meanings. I hope that explanation helped sort that out. I spent the time explaning it because you said you loved it, and I wanted to help clarify because I may have not spent enough time on that detail as I should have.
@@JackisaMimic your explaination definitely helps but a little rebuttal: The reason it says LEGEND FELLED is because we slay Horaoh Louh the first Tarnished NOT Godfrey the first Elden Lord. Amongst Tarnished such as us he is a Legend unlike how the Golden Order sees him, as the Elden Lord and Father to demigods
@@JackisaMimic i mean youre right but he was Horoah Louh before he was Godfrey, and its heavily implied the prefix "God" means youre a descendent of the golden lineage. And as we learn from Kenneth Haight, Nepheli being being a Louh has a better claim of the golden lineage than Godrick(and Godefroy) despite not being a demigod. Pls dont get me wrong im not trying to disregard your theory as its really convincing and may be true, but as with almost all theorys there are holes that the initial theory glosses over. Maybe you can revist your theory if youre still set on it going over the holes it has and ask the community to help fill them in
It is all in the name, Godwyn equals the Golden dynasty and this is mirrored with how Mogh is trying to make his own Moghwyn dynasty. Also the dragons that we meet act more like guardians rather than members of a faction trying to reclaim their place in the Order. Also your head turns into the "sun'" in the frenzied flame ending, you could've use that. Anyways, while I believe that you may have made a huge stretch regarding the order of the Sun, you still raise important points that very few talk about in these lore videos.
What you say makes sense, the dragon that attacks you when you enter the Altus Plateau doesn't seem to align with Leyndell. They may be vessels of the Greater Will, the ancient dragons look like... "built", like they're fabricated out of stone (kind of like Marika...) and they did hold the ring in a time prior to men. What is baffling to me is, when we kill the current vessel to the Elden Ring, and the Elden Beast is "liberated" or "deconstructed" from it, the beast itself looks like a dragon (Who's even named "NebulaDragon" in the game files). It might be that the first and most perfect vessels were similar in shape to the Beast. If that is the case, and they're just good boys to the GW or the Elden Beast, that makes you wonder what might have gone down to have the biggest ancient dragons try to tear down the city and the tree where the Ring and its current bearer resides.
I really appreciate the clear effort increase in editing here, I want you to know that there is a really big uptick in quality even if it doesn’t immediately result in viewership uptick
Really? Out of all of my theories I think this one is still the strongest post DLC. All that needs changing is Miquella’s involvement, but other than that, there is additional evidencefor Godwyn not being Godfrey’s son and I was right about the Eclipse, it already/wouldn’t happen.
wow really nice. I like this new take very interesting! and its nice to have input from someone who's well read on GRRM's literature; most people only bring up Miyazaki's previous games and Berserk.
Wonderful storytelling, Jack! I love your takes and how you piece things together. As a theory, there is a leap I’m not sure I can take. Being a martyr “to” something is different from being a martyr “for” something. Being that Godwyn was a martyr to DD, I think that excludes him from being a co-conspirator in the plot. That being said, I enjoyed the video very much and look forward to the next part, and all future explorations into ER lore!
That is why I included that made up prophecy! Many people look forward to Godwyn’s triumphant(or terrifying) return in the DLC. It would be incredibly ironic if Godwyn believed that, too. His triumphant return looking like a squid left on the sidewalk for too long lol I agree with your assessment though, and at this moment I prefer to lean that he was in know based on his Christ-like poses and his similarities to another prophecy addicted GRRM character I didn’t mention: Rhaegar Targaryean! Happy you enjoyed the video, hope you like my future ones too!
@@JackisaMimic Haha, of course! I should have never doubted you. How you maintain the connections between all the items and dialogue etc. amazes me! Radagon would be proud 😄
And all that is gone And all that's to come And everything under the sun is in tune But the sun is eclipsed by the moon The dark moon of Ranni eclipsing the sun!! JACK YOU MANIAC, my jaw is on the floor
this actually helps expand on a theory I had, I thought about why Marika's people (who we assumed are her people, the numens and the black knife assassins) would want to kill Godwyn, or who for what reason would contract them to kill him. My theory basically was that Marika removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, as we know, and needed to ensure that some other method of bringing about ones death could not be achieved. The only one who had such power was Godwyn and his curse of death/deathroot so she planned to execute him. BUT now it could be assumed that maybe he was a path to overcome death, resurrecting himself or being resurrected after an eclipse, defeating death and perfecting life in the Lands Between, but Rani and her own mission (the 1000 year voyage under the stars) conflicted with that in that she was bound by her flesh to serve the Greater Will, so she stole half the cursemark of death, damning a man she had no loyalty or relation to in service of herself, her mother, Carians and/or the Nox. Cause why would Rani feel the need to protect or serve the Golden Order, The Greater Will, or Marika herself when they disrupted her family life, of which we have evidence that she loves and cares for her mother enough to put a reflection of Rennala's prime self in the way if anyone tried to take advantage of her broken state or execute her. I know there are holes in my theory, its just something i cooked up thinking about "why?"
Godwyn is reverting to a basilisk, which, according to myth, is a serpent (or toad) born of an egg that has been incubated by a cockerel. Its stare brings death (like death blight) and Godwyn looks like the basilisks in-game in many aspects (tail, webbed hands, fingers, etc.). That a cockerel is cuckolded to hatch a serpent seems pertinent. Likely Marika cuckolded Godfrey to claim Godwyn as the first scion of the ascendant age of the Erdtree. Who is Godwyn's daddy? Placidusax, more than likely, although the anagram of Radagon as "a dragon" does seem very strong and cannot be a mere coincidence.
Hey man. Love your videos, but cinquedea is pronounced like "Sink-Dee." I will never not understand how so few people who make a living making From Soft analysis videos have actually thought to search how foreign words are pronounced. I would assume it's like step 1 of making a From Soft video. Or any video related to anything foreign or fantasy themed.
The rune of Mending looks more like an Eclipse than Fia's rune. That one looks like a centipede not an eclipse. Also the scion part for grafting could be related to Godrick. A youtuber found like 2 years ago that a relic is a part of a dead person, like bones for example. The reason there is a second Godwynn face in Stormveill castle is because Godrick took a body part from Godwynn when he died. You see Godrick holding an arm in the cinematic with Ranni. I think that's Godwynns arm, but Godrick didn't seem to attach it to himself. Probably because it was corrupted by death.
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?? Karl is the god of Rock and Stone. It's so fitting. Keep cooking, your work has changed so much of how I view Elden Ring.
Seeing how Messmer has eyes of those who’ve practiced dragon communion & armor that resembled the drake knights, what if Messmer is the one who ordered the death of Godwyn? Godwyn took the side of the dragons but Messmer knew of the dragon’s true intentions/knew of Godwyns origins being partially dragon, tried to tell Godwyn but was shut down. Messmer loving his mother & wanting to prove to her he was more fit to be Elden Lord, had Godwyn Killed & the. Ate Godwyns heart, becoming the first to practice dragon communion through the heart of a half blood. Afterwards began hunting dragons but fell to the power from dragon communion, obsessed with power he created the drake knights & decided he wanted to gain power over the erdtree / golden order? Just a theory.
Random thought, probably nothing, but: if red lightning captures “the hue of primordial gold” maybe this world originally had a red sun? Stab in the dark (or maybe in the light?)
I’ve only seen a bare hint connecting Godwyn with GEQ/Death and that is at the bottom of the Divine Tower of Caelid. In the room where you fight the Apostle behind the chest that holds the Godslayer’s Greatsword is an elaborate design that I assumed was that of the GEQ. At the bottom of the design are two fish tails swooping out on either side that look like Godwyn’s. I’m not sure if it is a mural or a door sealed with some fetal-looking form. Nothing other than that though. As for the portrait of the couple, when we see that same man again it looks like he is pulling out his own rune! Made me wonder if he would transform into Messmer like Gurranq did into Maliketh as he extracted the rune. Hard to say.
this video and latest theories going on are so crazy and believable, this era is the best I hope all this is confirmed somehow in DLC... Im definetly making dragon communion/dragon cult banished knight build
Gr8 video! Can anybody answer this? The war broke out after the shattering when the demigods got stronger from the pieces of runes they obtained, right? Then logically, we might assume they didn't have any runes before that. So how did the gloam eyed queen have control of the death rune if presumably it was still integrated into the elden ring? I cant think of another character using runes of the elden ring before the shattering.
Aragon griped tight to his fallen order like a coward.He hid away as a coward.Even grace was against him and i know Marika hated him and mocked him.I think when they talk about being controlled they are talking about their other self leal hound of the order?Or the greater will?Because the greater will would strip you of grace if you were against it,or was the elden ring stolen?
there is a sun can see it from mt gelmir, leave the manor past patches n head all the way to the end, its not always visible tho, but i think you're onto something, is no word sun in the games massage system, i always assumed the erdtree was the sun, with the dung eater having a sun on him and marikas family being cursed with omen i think he's the one who cursed them because of the sun, he hates the golden order! i've been saying since the trailer got lands of shadow, lands between.... between what? if you look at the wooden bit of the erdtree can see a mural of a tree growing from the top of the erdtree we can see, from the haligtree the erdtree looks orange even before you burn it, not sure why also been thinking about how ranni is only half in her puppet body, what if the plan was to have miquella and ranni live in the same vessel? therefore bring a eclipse, ranni is midnight cold, dark and distant, miquella high noon, radiant, warm and loved.... what happens when sun and moon both in the same place at 12pm? a total eclipse!! we even now know miquella has also stripped himself of his emperinan flesh like ranni... have people tried using the incantation Law of Causality on things, seems odd only 1 was programmed into the game, is 3 similar spells, might go cast them as some statues see what happens lol
Man he was Godwyn the Golden. No way a few black knives took him out. He killed those huge dragons. I think he let himself get killed for some reason. Maybe he knew the plan.
Rani's body did not contort because her body died. But it is an interesting theory that the corpse is Godwyn's true form. I think I read somewhere is some items that some dragons can have human forms.
I always found it super weird that both Godrick and Godwyn are “the golden”, and that Godwyn is the only one of the golden lineage to actually have golden hair
Its a cool idea but the story itself does not lend to this. We know the beastmen served the dragons and the ancient dragons existed into the erdtree age, due to the attack on the leyndell, and the dragon cult that emerged headed by an ancient dragon.
I’m not entirely convinced by this, and I think Messmer has more to do with Godwyn. Personally, it makes more sense to me if Fortisaxx befriended Godwyn after he spared his life in their final battle. The Ancient Dragon Cult would have also gone around destroying churches of Dragon Communion, since the dragons are befriended and worshipped in Godwyn’s religion, whereas Mesmer would hunt and kill dragons for their hearts.
I think there is absolutely an audience for Elden Ring and ASOIAF cross-theorizing. There are plenty of comments on ASOIAF lore channels expressing confusion why there isn't more of it, but I think it's pretty simple. Too many boxes to check. You gotta be an ASOIAF fan, a gamer, a FromSoft fan and a content creator.
Isn't Godrick's existence proof that Godwyn is of the Golden Lineage? As Godrick is a descendant of Godfrey and Marika, he must be descended from one of their children. As Mohg and Morgott were omens and banished and thus could not have sired any non-omen children that could go on to have Godrick and Godefroy. Thus Godwyn is the only candidate for this missing link. Also, why would the dragons wage war against the capital of Marika had already ruled alongside Placidusax?
You're going to have to find the evidence that Godrick, and Godwyn, are descendant to Godfrey, nothing ever explicitly states that. Morgott and Mohg are explicitly stated to be Godfrey's sons, Ranni, Rykard, and Radahn are explicitly states as Radagon's children, and Miquella and Malenia are explicitly states as Radagon's children. Godrick and Godwyn are never given explicit information on who their paternal lineage is tied to, and that is very suspicious. You're also assuming that Marika ruled with Placidusax. We have no indication that Placidusax interacted with any humans, numens, or otherwise. His "god who fled" is never stated to have been an Empryean, or anything, other than a "god"
![Yailin La Mas Viral, @kreizyk.official - Dale 2 (Remix) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JaYHBzgqz94/mqdefault.jpg)
This video was created before the DLC, much of the theorizing has changed. However, some has not. Enjoy!
"Ah, mighty dragon. Thou art a TRUE-born heir...oh KINDRED."
Always was weird how nobody talks about that.
I was thinking the same damn thing
Because of Godwyns connection and close relationship with dragons.
An entire group has of knights were created because of it and Vyke was one of them. A dragon knight.
@@travman1987drake night
It's always the small stuff...
I literally always thought he said that cause he was out of his mind, desperate for power and admiration. 🤷🏻♂️
I think i know why Ranni chose Godwyn… he was her polar opposite destiny and rune wise, he was highly favoured as a demigod yet wasn’t the heir to the golden order. Out of him Mohg and Margott he’s the only one born of Godfrey that isn’t afflicted by the Crucible, making him free to live as he pleased without the burden of ambition or fate - as opposed to Ranni whose fate was allegedly connected to the stars sealed by Radahn. I feel like every demigod had their own fate, and because initially Godwyn had none, once Ranni took it upon herself to set deathrot upon the land and scheme with the Numen Black Knives, his fate then became as a tool towards his half sisters machinations, intertwining and sealing his destiny
Yes! We haven’t had an in-depth Godwyn Lore ever. Most videos on Godwyn typically retread item descriptions, and avoid any narrative and contextual implications. Even if we may disagree in some aspects, this one is very insightful
This is the most thoughtful video about Godwyn, The Golden. Thanks for the video!
another comment on this video sort of gave me a bit of eureka moment (shoutout to @LordKnightBane who woke me up to the idea and inspired this theory).
WHAT IF..... Lansseax is actually Godwyn's secret consort and thus the very reason he was assassinated?
A demi-god partaking in dragon communion would surely be heresy of the highest (golden) order.
WHAT IF.... Marika forbade her son (Godwyn) from marrying Lansseax, but he outright defied her and did it anyway, a la "the things i do for love..."?
Surely, such treason and defiance can only be paid for in blood and curse - to spurn any would-be demigods from ever attempting anything similar...
so a plot to kill a (demi)god unfolded, but Ranni intervened and 'saved' Godwyn from dying a true, irrevokable death (for what reason, i do not know).
WHAT IF.... Godwyn went to fight and defeat Grand (Lich) Dragon Fortisax for more than friendship and to prove his strength?... what if he did so, to gain his approval and permission to marry Lansseax and form an unbreakable bond (to solidify the alliance) between man and dragon?
as is standard for G.R.R.M storytelling; the male head of the family has to approve a marriage before it can be sanctioned.
This would explain why Fortisax fights as hard as he does to win an impossible battle in order to save a man who is quite literally bound by blood in family!!!
Godwyn could be Fortisax's actual brother-in-law through his courtship with Lansseax, and be the catalyst for a revival of the age of the dragons.
A truly legitimate and undeniable intermingling of the Golden Order and the dragons.
bro, this makes so much more sense than "and then he went and beat a dragon because lulz he is strong and handsome so why not".
Fortisax is fighting with all he's got to save the father of his unborn nephew/niece - to literally save his lineage - the future elden lord of the realm and king of dragonkind.
HOW ABOUT THAT FELLAS?
Short response: I really think you're onto something with this.
Long response: I started drawing a lot of the same parallels between ER and DS as you did not too long ago. I started putting more and more together but I stopped in a panic because my confidence in my train of thought made me think I'd actually figure things out. I want to play the DLC first, savor the mysteries and reveals, so I've been staving off my desire to listen to more lore videos, but I couldn't ignore the subject of this video and how neatly it parallels with the ideas I was having.
Good video and I think all is pure speculation. There is no way to know this (or claim to know this) The role Miquella will play or has played is also important and cant be guessed (yet)
So I have a theory or addition that naws at me and I feel like maaaybe could help this theory?? I am convinced there's something up with the fact Merika and Radagon have trouble creating children themselves. Or Merika has some issue with that, because (this is def some game of throne influence) Merika and Radagon honestly feel very like Circi Lanister and her brother vibes. Like why need to go out and find other suitors/elden lords anyway? Because they're so powerful they can't create children, which is a classic fromsoft trope. The amber egg also gives clear reference to this. Why do they need an egg of unborn demigods? How can they afford to give that away? Why doesn't it work the same for Rennala as it clearly had in the past. Like clearly, there were children before and after, Radagon (so hence Merika gifted it to her, why would she be so gracious to give her childbearing ability, except that she found a new one). Also, huge point, what is a cruicible? It's a container used to mix metals. I think Merika reresuses the old gods through the cruicible (hence why she banned it, like the shadow realm and fire while actively using it herself, because people could also use it to harness power against her) she defeats and remakes them into her own family, utilizing and storing their power under her banner, but the leaching of the previous power comes through and betrays her. If you look at the demigods, almost all of them have defining characteristics of an outer God of some form, which makes sense if she recycled them lol I also think perhaps this also explains "the missing god" of plasidusax. How tragic that his god was actually taken by his rival, never to return to his previous (possible) lord. Possible even used to destroy him, dragons, etc. Hence, Could that be godwyn??? And he just realized and went against Merika? Just thoughts lol awesome videos Jack, as usual!!!!
I’ve been telling people for months that this is a story about how the golden order or the main outer god is trying to kill its off springs (aspects of itself) through the birth of marikas kids. So marika in the story is actually tryna keep her family alive. It’s the golden order the other outer gods and markka and Melina trying to sway you in all these different directions
P.S. I say Golden Order is the main outer god because I creates life and it seems like through (death) intelligence was granted to the lands between death is the same level as golden order and they work together is mother and father of the outer gods
Age of the sun represents half the outer gods of the lands between unified
I become fearful that the age of the sun will somehow become dark souls, and the worlds will become even more tied together
The sun realm shield is jack’s albinauric blood clot
Context for others: the Albinauric Bloodclot is Smoughtown’s favourite Item Description
"Best lore item in the game"
If you said Placidusax banged Marika it would have been more convincing. Radagon is just part of Marika, like St Trina is part of Miquela. It's some alchemical mumbo-jumbo stuff. But everything else checks out, specially since Radagon's children all have red hair, Godfrey's have white hair as seem with Morgott (since Mogh is bald), so Godwyn is Marika's child with someone else.
nice new setup!! and thank you for another stupidly insightful and comprehensive lore video :-)
man this is an amazing video!! not too sure I agree with some of the stuff. But some very good point brought up. Thank you!!
Gostoc is Godrick's bastard for sure.
Great video! I don't buy Radagon as a mimic, but I very much buy Godwin as a dragon.
That’s wild to me haha I thought Radagon is a Mimic was the easy sell!
@@JackisaMimicWhile I don't doubt that it's possible that Radagon could be a mimic at times, my feeling is if one were to breed with a mimic the child wouldn't have aspects of what the mimic was pretending to be in previous forms but more that of the mimics true essence of a mimic. I think perhaps it is more likely Marika might have had an affair with a dragon in the guise of a man, perhaps the dragon Godwin had made friends with and why the dragons aligned with Marika and the Golden order
Messmers flame looks a lot like the daughters of chaos flame
The fury sword says it’s made out of scales, feathers, all life and the shadow realm is like the old crucible maybe messmer was the one who truley made it which would make sense considering the flame created new creatures. Or maybe that was flower crucible age when the great hand split into 3 and 2
Radagon has an extra A so it is not an anagram.
The anagram is “A Dragon”, both A’s are in use.
Cool theory, but Occam’s Razor makes Goldwyn son of Godfrey
Occam's razor doesn't really hold up in fantasy RPG games lol. Especially in a Souls game where GRRM is involved
Godwyn's father is Godfrey. hence their names
What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
@@JackisaMimic o Godwyn, pode possuir este nome, porque o Godfrey, acreditava que ele era o seu filho, mas, possivelmente não era.
Brilliant video, Godwyn's parentage was totally sus and FIA is FortIssAx's human form :D.
Godwyn and Messmer were the two sides to the Lands Between "Dance of Dragons", and while Godwyns way was accepted, Messmers Dragon Communion was not
perhaps because Godwyn earned his right to communion (permission granted from Fortisax after proving himself to him) and Messmer might have done it in a more heretical fashion, hence the theme of snakes being one of his trademarks which implies blasphemy, much like Rykard who indulged in similar sin.
4:37 DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE
FOR KARL!
IT YOU DON’T ROCK AND STONE, YOU AIN’T COMING HOME!
@@zevrs5800 THERE'S MORKITE OVER HERE!
STONE AND ROCK... wait
WE'RE RICH
Jack, coming out of the gates swinging with this one. You had me on the edge of my seat. This answered so many questions I've had for the game for some time. I was skeptical at first that the Sun Realm was Faram Azula but you've convinced me. I always wondered who the undead we saw raised were, and now it clicks into place with their armor and weapons, they were fighters likely for the 'Sun Realm', as we know their are humans depicted in the statues of Faram Azula, alongside the beast-men and dragons. I gotta say this is the first real comprehensive video on Godwyn and its theories and I like how you're not afraid to lean into them. I think a lot of people gloss over how grandiose and inspirational the story of Elden Ring can really be and Godwyn or even Radagon being a dragon feels like a huge and grandiose revelation. As always you brought plenty of awesome speculative evidence from the game itself. Very nice work! This really makes me think what I've posed before, that the Lord of Sotrmveil Castle was sacrificed like how Godwyn was supposed to be, and that's why that giant dead face is down there.
Faram Azula also could be from the city in the dlc trailer that looks to be having some parts of its building or part of the city itself ascending into a vortex of some sorts. Which also looks like that's where we will fight that "Chinese dragon" boss. All speculation obviously on my part.
I have a feeling Godwyn will be the actual final boss of the DLC and he will say, "your Elden Ring hand it over, for my femboy's painting". Also I just had a wild idea that why Ranni and Godwyn both died to create the hallowbrand rune is because Godwyn represents the sun and Ranni the moon and together the eclipse! :0 Also, could that painting of that woman in the DLC with that old man be Lansseax and maybe she birthed Godwyn?
Lmfao. I love how true this might be.
This is pretty spicy and I do appreciate confidence when delivering these lore hit pieces - a certain flair, for good measure. It's a lot to process, especially because it deals with things that tend to sit in the back, the so called established facts: Godwyn is just meant to be the golden best boi who dun died badly. So that Godwyn's relevance is entirely centered on his nature *after* his half-death, which leads to these mute assumptions of (in)significance. And that's why it's always exciting when someone points at the assumed "obvious" and illustrates the case is otherwise. And it starts best with pretty basic questions. Perhaps the perfect one is that used here: asking about Godwyn's parentage, the quickest way for people to realize they have assumptions, rather than answers, that sit quietly in the back of the lore room without anyone having checked their tickets. I also appreciate this more conventional and shorter format, a counterpoint to your more novel approach which I personally have found harder to process (my own problem, of course).
Also, as far as the DLC goes (the trailer I mean), I was really intrigued by the "lion" boss more than most things. Not because of its exotic design/skeleton (which is cool), but because the little bros in there can clearly wield golden lightning, which is a very suspicious tool for a culture that precedes Erdtree rule. "Lions" and golden lightning, would you look at that... mhm.
Thank you for the appreciative comment! Those Black Swordsman videos are for me, these videos are for the rest of you 😜
Expect more videos like this in the future, with a BSM finale(hopefully) end of the year
@@JackisaMimic If you make more Black Swordmen videos for yourself, please post them as I very much enjoy the perspective of the narrative of them
Thank you, that means a lot to me
@36:30 "past the hooded statue of Radagon". A statue with the glow of ancient dragon scales radiating out of it. After you convinced me that this hooded figure is Radagon in previous videos I jumped to the conclusion that Radagon must be draconic in some way since his statues sometimes are filled with dragon scales (smithing stones). Considering the Nox created Dragon Kin soldiers with ice lightning.. maybe they kept working on their recipe and added in some smithing stones to eventually forge the mimic tear that would become Radagon.
keep cooking
@@mystereel Brother over here's been cookin' with the Giantsflame.
Jackious minicous voice is the best bedtime lullby.all while delivering the most insightful lore knolwdge
Thank you, Jack, for posting
Every single video you upload brings joy to me 🎉
The symbol of the dragon cult, is a city on fire with a dragon crawling up one of its towers. The minor erdtree church has grafted gold braches, with a 1/3 success ratio. No item insinuation any blood relation to Marika. This video has far more evidence for then against, but it takes patience and constant questioning. Amazing video dude. I was under the impression of Marika being Godwyn, but perhaps she usurped his power. Stormcaller church is where ive been telling people a Frankenstein like being comes into play. But not from Godwyn's body, more like a rememberance, used to sculpt a statue of dragon scales, with a regenerative sacred tear at its core, and lightning blessing it back to life. Its the form of Godwyn, but it is somehow Marika/Radagon in the form of a draconian after. I think Sellen's questline is the key, a soul put in another body to stay alive forever. But when the golden order forms via Radagon, law of regression could in this scenario, explain how Radagon can revert to Marika, while always having Marika's soul inside him. This is pretty genious of Marika, because she had someone become a god, who always looked to her as a god that created him.
Mmm, I'm not convinced about this one. It's too based on ifs, headcanons and lack of information. Cool idea, tho.
Respectfully, most fromsoft theories originate from ifs, head cannon ideas, etc. I'm not sure how this is much different. I think Jack is spot on in dissecting what we know about godwyn and trying to tie that in to the overarching lore of the world. The core ideas here are solid and as always Jack does an excellent job at taking these ideas and making a narrative that's engaging.
Really feel like you found your voice for this video well done jack.
Cheers to finally finishing it!! 🥂
Latching onto your idea that Miquella is the mastermind behind quite a lot of the significant events in the history of Elden Ring including the Night of Black Knives... I had an epiphany... What if Miquella really is trying his best to restore his beloved brother... Messmer. What if the third figure in the Haligtree statue with Miquella and Malenia is their brother Messmer. For Miquella to travel to the Lands of Shadow he deft behind a soulless body. Ranni's soul must occupy a doll to be present in the Lands Between - a body with limitations that must slumber from time to time... The soulless body of a demigod like Godwyn might make a fine vessel for a soul stranded in the Lands of Shadow.
My current head cannon is that Marika/Radagon set up the Tarnished banishment/return scheme as a contingency if their demigod children could not manage to slay the Elden Beast. Their preferred plan was for their demigod children to become powerful enough to slay the beast.
And now Miquella is coopting the Tarnished as a contingency for his own schemes when his preferred plan failed. Because Miquella requires an actual eclipse (as well as the metaphorical one) to complete his Messmer revival scheme. But Radahn halted the stars. So Miquella sends his undefeated blade to defeat Radahn so the eclipse can occur. After Malenia fails Miquella turns to the Tarnished as a fallback to defeat Radahn.
This take feels even more plausible if we consider that Godwyn is not the son of Marika or Radagon. If he's the son of Godfrey and a dragon then he's not even related by blood to Miquella, Malenia, and Messmer. "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." Miquella's prayer may actually be for his brother stranded in the Land of Shadow... and he may care very little about Godwyn..
I don’t agree with a lot of your theories but you say them with such confidence it’s charming
IKR, like im at the godwyn's corpse part and It's totally wrong due to the mermaid and japanese myth side of that imagery and a lot more, but he's so confident i keep watching.
Ok hear me out. WHAT IF Godwyn and Ranni both were supposed to be apart of the ritual but REVERSED. It was supposed to destroy Ranni's soul and godwyns body. Then it would allow ranni the empyrean to be taken in as a replacement for marika and godwyn the golden would be the new elden lord. Two people one body and an empty shell/puppet like we see marika at the end of rhe game. Ranni would have reasons enchant the knives and mess it up (one is to pretend to do her part and the second would be to get freedom from the erdtree.) Also killing the rebellious Ranni's soul would make her obidient. The black knives had connection to marika after all. But the world didnt know Marika is Radagon so when the ritual gets botched how are they gonna explain it??? They cant so they get hunted down as murderers and eventually spin the block and get beat by a mad blaidd and get my boy iji as revenge for what ranni did. And what if the golden glowing person at the end of tge trailer isnt even miquella Miyazaki said they are related to miquella. What if it is godwyn the golden attemting (or succeeding)to take his body. He would die a true death a be reborn as a new elden lord. A with miquella's power to compel he might be able to maintain control over they consiousness. Or it might be a perfect symbiotic being who knows
Godwyn always reminds me of Baldur from viking mythology. He was not supposed to die but Ultimately did. The parallel isn't exactly the same but it does have some relation. Also your theory is pretty good.
@@eldendad5743 yeah, he's for sure inspired in him, he's after all described as the perfect god all around, and it was another god, loki, from the same family, in a gathering, who planned his assasination, similar to Ranni. Even after every creature in existance swore an oath to keep him safe, Loki managed to get him killed. Similar to how the Night of the Black Knives played out. We get referenced specifically that it was the first recorded death of a demigod, as in, in the Golden Order with death sealed in Maliketh's sword, nobody thought it was possible to actually kill a demigod.
32:08 because Rani’s body is dead and can no longer grow. Godwin’s body ISNT dead, just his soul. So it makes sense that death could contort his body into something representive of death (sea critters, because Miazaki does have a bit of an ocean = death thing going on in his stories)
Godwyn being a dragon himself is an excellent idea, as well as the comparasion between Hoarah Loux/ Godfrey, and Robert Baratheon. The sun realm might have just been the previous (or A previous) installment of the Elden Ring's shape and "power", so the previous Order that was related to Gold, civilization, intelligence, but also life, and death, with Farum Azula as the capital city.
I noticed some parallels between Marika & Godfrey with Danaerys Targaryen & Drogo, mainly in that both Marika and Danaerys were Godlike royalty that came to a land governed by a different culture that celebrated competitions of brutality, strength, and bloodsport, with the khals and Hoarah Loux having their crowns warranted with strength before they became rulers of their respective people.
@@ArchosaurArchon that's actually a very interesting observation, you're right. The valyrian people do have some kind of godly power, and come from afar - the numen are described similarly, their name referring to them being godlike, even. In the story of Westeros, too, once the Targaryen arrived, they waged war against multiple divided kingdoms and united them all into a single country - somewhat similar to the Lands Between, where the Erdtree aligned waged war against "everything" in the beginning, as an incantation says.
Thats an amazing theory, i juet have a problem with Placidusax fake ER part, Marika most likely wasnt the first God, Dragons are way older then humans, Placi is on a place with an Ancient despiction of the Elden Ring, there is no reason to doubt that a dragon was an Elden Lord once.
Nah, this isn't it
The main conclusion of Age of Duskborn ending is Resurrection of Godwyn by bringing Eclipse that casts Dusk. Mending Rune of Death Prince represents Eclipse.
Babe wake up, Jack is giving us another lesson!🙏🏽 thank you professor Jackius Mimickus
4:00 I disagree, I believe Placidusax's god and consort was the Twinbird. The Elden Beast was just an envoy for the Greater Will. 17:00 I disagree again, the banished knights were enemies of the dragons, Ekzykes was a revenger against those who committed dragon order communion
Something I have been questioning since I read the description of the Curse Mark of Death, how did Ranni preform the ritual on herself at the same time that Godwyn was slain? And my theory has always been some sort of celestial event that was happening around the lands between all at once. Surely, she was up at the top of the tower watching and waiting, for the eclipse.
While it's very commum to associate Morgott and Mogh being Omens due to Godfrey association with the Crucible, it just proves a lack of understanding of the concepts.
First, the Erdtree, as well as other trees at the time, were growing from the trunk of the Greatree. This is the crucible, exactly as we see in the helmet of one of the Crucible Knights. This is why they say "life was blended together" all types of life were growing from the same trunk, however only the Erdtree prevailed.
Now look at Godfrey, does he look like an Omen at all? Sure he is portrayed as a barbarian as Horrah Leux and has beasts, horns and the crucicle associated with his image, but does he look like an Omen? Absolutely not.
The thing is, when you graft a plant onto another's trunk, it will produce it's own fruits, but after some time the roots start to "corrupt" this grafted tree and the fruits will start to resemble the ones originally produced.
Thats why Omens exist.
Are miquella & Godwin based of hypnos & Thanatos from Greek mythology it’s seems like it. hypnos is the god of sleep and Thanatos is the god of death and their brothers only their twins and Godwin and him aren’t but idk lol
Jackbriri is a mad lad, but we like to let him cook anyway :)
Maybe Godwyn was supposed to "feed" Erdtree? Similar to to erdtree burial and michella waterimg the halig tree with his own blood (and maybe the creation of the erdtree itself with the bodies of the crucible. I mean, it is becoming quite clear that the erdtree is depend on blood and flesh. So maybe this was an intend to get a new golden era of the erdtree. Most characters are not really affected by the fact that Godwyn has been murdered but are mourning about the fact that he failed to die. Just a thought i got while listening to your video.
Amazing. Thank you, truly. I just wanted to mention two little things you might be interested in: in the church/cathedral of dragon communion you can see the ancient dragon fell from the sky and broke into the building, implying the church was already there. That would help more accurately date the destruction of farum azula with regards to the "Norman" or "Fringe" era.
Secondly when you were listing off "Norman" castles, there is one location you might want to look at for yourself. The lower sections of the Haligtree, specifically the outer ring of Elphael, is built in Norman style. It is built in a different style than the other rings. The huge, brownish, decorated walls, towers, etc. of the Haligtree (lavishly carved with Miquellan prophecies) is even seen to be built ON TOP of this older, castle-like wall. I noticed this in the area just below the "Drainage Channel" site of grace. Seriously, from one lore nerd to another please check it out.
Oh wow excellent thank you! I have to think on the information about the Dragon Church’s and try to figure an order of events that seems the most logical.
Thanks for the heads up on Elphael, that’s going to probably help me for part 2!
@@JackisaMimic One more thing, if you're going to look at it: keep in mind the purpose of water. The site is called Drainage channel because it is releasing water from inside the tree, from what I presume is for the purpose of keeping flowing water to quell the scarlet rot, but that is just a guess.
What really confuses me is that that area at the bottom of Elphael looks like it was once a piece of real land, but has crumbled away. Look just north of the church where the pests are. A majority of the tree is under water as well. Makes you wonder what was there before Miquella....
I could go on and on. But thanks for hearing me out!
Thanks for sharing, you really shared something to think about! To me, I think it helps reinforce my opinion that the Haligtree may be much older than we expect
I think you’re on to something here. Radagon at large is still unexplained, but him being a dragon previously makes a lot of sense. Wouldn’t be surprised if we get more dragon lore in Shadow
Thank God, I can study while waiting on my mom at the doctor. Paying for the remote classes was the best idea ever!
????
I have actually been looking for the location on the map where Godwyn was sacrificed. Anyone have any ideas?
8:13 i remember speculation that the child here is miquella and those wolves were statues of those we get as our first spirit ashes
41:25 ay ay ay gotta stop you there for a second; those who live in death do in fact have souls, these are souls that are forced to live on in their dead bodily husks, Rogier and Fia makes sure the player is explained this so there can be no doubt as to their nature.
heck, even D the hunter of those who live in death (what a title lol) will go out of his way to say that these are accursed souls that must be expunged for daring to poke a hole in the 'flawless logic' of the golden order - their existence is paradoxical to the laws of the lands between.
they reveal the fickleness of the gods, and so an extermination process is currently taking place, very similar to that of the Omen and the Albinaurics whose very existence have similar "problems" for the golden order.
I think you misunderstood him here.
He isn‘t calling those who live in death soulless, he called the remains they inhabit prior to deathroot, soulless.
Nobody really died in the golden order and souls have been floating around anyways to fuel the erdtree, what I wonder is weither post godwyn these remains had their original souls return to their graves or if it‘s just randomized as long as they have a body to inhabit.
See my main problem with this theory is that there really isn't any evidence that Godwyn is a bastard, all we really have is a lack of confirmation that Godfrey is Godwyn's father but as the saying goes absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Still a really well put together video, even if I don't really agree with any of the arguments in it.
I think that is the point, though. There not being concrete information on his lineage is supposed to make us question it, not that he is automatically a bastard, but we can’t rule it out since it isn’t official.
Imagine if such a rumor were to spread in the Lands Between, what would that do to Godfrey or Godwyn’s reputation and how they would react?
It doesn’t have to be true for it to have an impact, the Lands Between is home to liars and cheats aplenty as Ranni tells us
Love the theory but unfortunantly i disagree with it almost entirely. I dont remember where but somewhere in the game it straight up states Godwynn as the first demigod. As for Godrick we really dont know who his parents were but me personally i think him and Godefroy are brothers and sons of Godwynn. I believe the golden lineage brothers marched on Leyndale together but Godrick coward out and thats why we see Godefroy locked up in an evergaol and Godrick is being protected by his caring uncle Morgott(this is also how i believe he survived his encounter with Melenia, Morgott saved him). Morgott did this because they are the last living remenents to the most beloved demigod and his thought to be dead brother. While i would love to hear more Godwynn theories, cause theyre sparse, make sure you read absolutly everything in game about or seemingly related to Godwynn.
Love the theory and vid though, crazy theories are what i strive for
Also the dragons gave in to the golden order because Godwynn (only a demigod) slayed the most powerfull ancient dragon. Imagin if someone considered number 3 of the most powerfull slayed your number 1... Yeah they wouldve given up because none could even fathom to compare to their elden lord, Godfrey.
I would recommend listening to the Great Rune section again. It seems you are confusing the two ways the game uses the term Demigod. One is for direct descendants and children of Marika, the other is a Royal Title.
Godrick's Great Rune reads: "The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage"
Yet, when we kill Godfrey we get the tag "LEGEND FELLED", do you think that Godfrey is a child of Marika based off of this item description?
Or we have the Carian Great Runes: "Rykard/Radahn was amongst the children of Rennala and Radagon, who became demigod stepchildren after Radagon's union with Queen Marika."
Radagon is Marika, so they were always demigods and children of Marika.
Do you think they were not children of Marika until Radagon married her, or do you think that this is being used as a title in the royal family?
To me, this is a bit of trickery in their word choices, and another example of duality in Elden Ring, where one word can have two meanings.
I hope that explanation helped sort that out. I spent the time explaning it because you said you loved it, and I wanted to help clarify because I may have not spent enough time on that detail as I should have.
@@JackisaMimic your explaination definitely helps but a little rebuttal: The reason it says LEGEND FELLED is because we slay Horaoh Louh the first Tarnished NOT Godfrey the first Elden Lord. Amongst Tarnished such as us he is a Legend unlike how the Golden Order sees him, as the Elden Lord and Father to demigods
@poobla7638 if you changed your name would that change who your parents are?
@@JackisaMimic i mean youre right but he was Horoah Louh before he was Godfrey, and its heavily implied the prefix "God" means youre a descendent of the golden lineage. And as we learn from Kenneth Haight, Nepheli being being a Louh has a better claim of the golden lineage than Godrick(and Godefroy) despite not being a demigod.
Pls dont get me wrong im not trying to disregard your theory as its really convincing and may be true, but as with almost all theorys there are holes that the initial theory glosses over. Maybe you can revist your theory if youre still set on it going over the holes it has and ask the community to help fill them in
I just want Godwyn to come back in full force, this is fromsoftware, no way they wouldn’t use an eclipse for the boss arena!
Prepare for dissapointment, and then try sad. 😔
No seriously the dlc climax is BS, absolute *sspull thanks to J.R.R.
It is all in the name, Godwyn equals the Golden dynasty and this is mirrored with how Mogh is trying to make his own Moghwyn dynasty. Also the dragons that we meet act more like guardians rather than members of a faction trying to reclaim their place in the Order. Also your head turns into the "sun'" in the frenzied flame ending, you could've use that.
Anyways, while I believe that you may have made a huge stretch regarding the order of the Sun, you still raise important points that very few talk about in these lore videos.
What you say makes sense, the dragon that attacks you when you enter the Altus Plateau doesn't seem to align with Leyndell. They may be vessels of the Greater Will, the ancient dragons look like... "built", like they're fabricated out of stone (kind of like Marika...) and they did hold the ring in a time prior to men. What is baffling to me is, when we kill the current vessel to the Elden Ring, and the Elden Beast is "liberated" or "deconstructed" from it, the beast itself looks like a dragon (Who's even named "NebulaDragon" in the game files). It might be that the first and most perfect vessels were similar in shape to the Beast.
If that is the case, and they're just good boys to the GW or the Elden Beast, that makes you wonder what might have gone down to have the biggest ancient dragons try to tear down the city and the tree where the Ring and its current bearer resides.
Yes! Godwin is the Sun! Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it.
I really appreciate the clear effort increase in editing here, I want you to know that there is a really big uptick in quality even if it doesn’t immediately result in viewership uptick
Th DLC really threw a lot of wrenches into so many great theories like this one
Really? Out of all of my theories I think this one is still the strongest post DLC. All that needs changing is Miquella’s involvement, but other than that, there is additional evidencefor Godwyn not being Godfrey’s son and I was right about the Eclipse, it already/wouldn’t happen.
This is some good crack pot stuff.
wow really nice. I like this new take very interesting! and its nice to have input from someone who's well read on GRRM's literature; most people only bring up Miyazaki's previous games and Berserk.
Youre videos are always a treat man! Very well made can't wait to see what theories you come up with in the DLC
He just made most of this up tf
Wonderful storytelling, Jack! I love your takes and how you piece things together.
As a theory, there is a leap I’m not sure I can take. Being a martyr “to” something is different from being a martyr “for” something. Being that Godwyn was a martyr to DD, I think that excludes him from being a co-conspirator in the plot.
That being said, I enjoyed the video very much and look forward to the next part, and all future explorations into ER lore!
That is why I included that made up prophecy! Many people look forward to Godwyn’s triumphant(or terrifying) return in the DLC. It would be incredibly ironic if Godwyn believed that, too. His triumphant return looking like a squid left on the sidewalk for too long lol
I agree with your assessment though, and at this moment I prefer to lean that he was in know based on his Christ-like poses and his similarities to another prophecy addicted GRRM character I didn’t mention: Rhaegar Targaryean!
Happy you enjoyed the video, hope you like my future ones too!
@@JackisaMimic Haha, of course! I should have never doubted you. How you maintain the connections between all the items and dialogue etc. amazes me! Radagon would be proud 😄
And all that is gone
And all that's to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon
The dark moon of Ranni eclipsing the sun!! JACK YOU MANIAC, my jaw is on the floor
this actually helps expand on a theory I had, I thought about why Marika's people (who we assumed are her people, the numens and the black knife assassins) would want to kill Godwyn, or who for what reason would contract them to kill him. My theory basically was that Marika removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, as we know, and needed to ensure that some other method of bringing about ones death could not be achieved. The only one who had such power was Godwyn and his curse of death/deathroot so she planned to execute him. BUT now it could be assumed that maybe he was a path to overcome death, resurrecting himself or being resurrected after an eclipse, defeating death and perfecting life in the Lands Between, but Rani and her own mission (the 1000 year voyage under the stars) conflicted with that in that she was bound by her flesh to serve the Greater Will, so she stole half the cursemark of death, damning a man she had no loyalty or relation to in service of herself, her mother, Carians and/or the Nox. Cause why would Rani feel the need to protect or serve the Golden Order, The Greater Will, or Marika herself when they disrupted her family life, of which we have evidence that she loves and cares for her mother enough to put a reflection of Rennala's prime self in the way if anyone tried to take advantage of her broken state or execute her. I know there are holes in my theory, its just something i cooked up thinking about "why?"
Godwyn is reverting to a basilisk, which, according to myth, is a serpent (or toad) born of an egg that has been incubated by a cockerel. Its stare brings death (like death blight) and Godwyn looks like the basilisks in-game in many aspects (tail, webbed hands, fingers, etc.). That a cockerel is cuckolded to hatch a serpent seems pertinent. Likely Marika cuckolded Godfrey to claim Godwyn as the first scion of the ascendant age of the Erdtree. Who is Godwyn's daddy? Placidusax, more than likely, although the anagram of Radagon as "a dragon" does seem very strong and cannot be a mere coincidence.
Hey man. Love your videos, but cinquedea is pronounced like "Sink-Dee." I will never not understand how so few people who make a living making From Soft analysis videos have actually thought to search how foreign words are pronounced. I would assume it's like step 1 of making a From Soft video. Or any video related to anything foreign or fantasy themed.
The rune of Mending looks more like an Eclipse than Fia's rune. That one looks like a centipede not an eclipse. Also the scion part for grafting could be related to Godrick. A youtuber found like 2 years ago that a relic is a part of a dead person, like bones for example. The reason there is a second Godwynn face in Stormveill castle is because Godrick took a body part from Godwynn when he died. You see Godrick holding an arm in the cinematic with Ranni. I think that's Godwynns arm, but Godrick didn't seem to attach it to himself. Probably because it was corrupted by death.
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?? Karl is the god of Rock and Stone. It's so fitting.
Keep cooking, your work has changed so much of how I view Elden Ring.
Seeing how Messmer has eyes of those who’ve practiced dragon communion & armor that resembled the drake knights, what if Messmer is the one who ordered the death of Godwyn? Godwyn took the side of the dragons but Messmer knew of the dragon’s true intentions/knew of Godwyns origins being partially dragon, tried to tell Godwyn but was shut down. Messmer loving his mother & wanting to prove to her he was more fit to be Elden Lord, had Godwyn Killed & the. Ate Godwyns heart, becoming the first to practice dragon communion through the heart of a half blood. Afterwards began hunting dragons but fell to the power from dragon communion, obsessed with power he created the drake knights & decided he wanted to gain power over the erdtree / golden order?
Just a theory.
Random thought, probably nothing, but: if red lightning captures “the hue of primordial gold” maybe this world originally had a red sun? Stab in the dark (or maybe in the light?)
I’ve only seen a bare hint connecting Godwyn with GEQ/Death and that is at the bottom of the Divine Tower of Caelid. In the room where you fight the Apostle behind the chest that holds the Godslayer’s Greatsword is an elaborate design that I assumed was that of the GEQ. At the bottom of the design are two fish tails swooping out on either side that look like Godwyn’s. I’m not sure if it is a mural or a door sealed with some fetal-looking form. Nothing other than that though.
As for the portrait of the couple, when we see that same man again it looks like he is pulling out his own rune! Made me wonder if he would transform into Messmer like Gurranq did into Maliketh as he extracted the rune. Hard to say.
this video and latest theories going on are so crazy and believable, this era is the best I hope all this is confirmed somehow in DLC... Im definetly making dragon communion/dragon cult banished knight build
Gr8 video! Can anybody answer this? The war broke out after the shattering when the demigods got stronger from the pieces of runes they obtained, right? Then logically, we might assume they didn't have any runes before that. So how did the gloam eyed queen have control of the death rune if presumably it was still integrated into the elden ring? I cant think of another character using runes of the elden ring before the shattering.
Sorry, off topic but Yo, I think Quelaag just got hacked! She was replaced with some Tesla live junk.
Aragon griped tight to his fallen order like a coward.He hid away as a coward.Even grace was against him and i know Marika hated him and mocked him.I think when they talk about being controlled they are talking about their other self leal hound of the order?Or the greater will?Because the greater will would strip you of grace if you were against it,or was the elden ring stolen?
I thought you were building up to Godwyn being Marika and Placidusax's child. To end the war if the dragons.
there is a sun can see it from mt gelmir, leave the manor past patches n head all the way to the end, its not always visible tho, but i think you're onto something, is no word sun in the games massage system, i always assumed the erdtree was the sun, with the dung eater having a sun on him and marikas family being cursed with omen i think he's the one who cursed them because of the sun, he hates the golden order! i've been saying since the trailer got lands of shadow, lands between.... between what? if you look at the wooden bit of the erdtree can see a mural of a tree growing from the top of the erdtree we can see, from the haligtree the erdtree looks orange even before you burn it, not sure why
also been thinking about how ranni is only half in her puppet body, what if the plan was to have miquella and ranni live in the same vessel? therefore bring a eclipse, ranni is midnight cold, dark and distant, miquella high noon, radiant, warm and loved.... what happens when sun and moon both in the same place at 12pm? a total eclipse!! we even now know miquella has also stripped himself of his emperinan flesh like ranni...
have people tried using the incantation Law of Causality on things, seems odd only 1 was programmed into the game, is 3 similar spells, might go cast them as some statues see what happens lol
Step 1: make a theory
Step 2: ignore all the evidence that it's wrong
Step 3: make a video, and make it so good that anybody could believe you
Man he was Godwyn the Golden. No way a few black knives took him out. He killed those huge dragons. I think he let himself get killed for some reason. Maybe he knew the plan.
Rani's body did not contort because her body died. But it is an interesting theory that the corpse is Godwyn's true form. I think I read somewhere is some items that some dragons can have human forms.
I always found it super weird that both Godrick and Godwyn are “the golden”, and that Godwyn is the only one of the golden lineage to actually have golden hair
Perhaps why Godfrey’s children are born as omens… a not exact link between cuckhold horns and omen horns…
I love this so much actually I always wondered why tf he looks like a dead mer! A **sea dragon** makes so much sense omg
my theory was somehow godwyn and fortisaxx’s human form merged to create messmer but as I type this I’m more uncertain
Good video, only thing that stood out to me as questionable was radagon passing off dragon genes, as it wouldn't just show in godwyn
I like the new background for your face cam. Gotta rep the berserk manga always
it is not pronounced "soff-ra" like you say. It uses the Irish pronunciation "sheef-ra"
My golden dragon cult build is gonna be so fitting for this DLC.. I can feel it 😫🤍
Its a cool idea but the story itself does not lend to this. We know the beastmen served the dragons and the ancient dragons existed into the erdtree age, due to the attack on the leyndell, and the dragon cult that emerged headed by an ancient dragon.
yes pleeeeaaaaaaase talk about radagon he’s so… odd
I’m not entirely convinced by this, and I think Messmer has more to do with Godwyn.
Personally, it makes more sense to me if Fortisaxx befriended Godwyn after he spared his life in their final battle. The Ancient Dragon Cult would have also gone around destroying churches of Dragon Communion, since the dragons are befriended and worshipped in Godwyn’s religion, whereas Mesmer would hunt and kill dragons for their hearts.
i think Messmer is the first successful Dragon kinG
I think there is absolutely an audience for Elden Ring and ASOIAF cross-theorizing. There are plenty of comments on ASOIAF lore channels expressing confusion why there isn't more of it, but I think it's pretty simple. Too many boxes to check. You gotta be an ASOIAF fan, a gamer, a FromSoft fan and a content creator.
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Isn't Godrick's existence proof that Godwyn is of the Golden Lineage? As Godrick is a descendant of Godfrey and Marika, he must be descended from one of their children. As Mohg and Morgott were omens and banished and thus could not have sired any non-omen children that could go on to have Godrick and Godefroy. Thus Godwyn is the only candidate for this missing link.
Also, why would the dragons wage war against the capital of Marika had already ruled alongside Placidusax?
You're going to have to find the evidence that Godrick, and Godwyn, are descendant to Godfrey, nothing ever explicitly states that. Morgott and Mohg are explicitly stated to be Godfrey's sons, Ranni, Rykard, and Radahn are explicitly states as Radagon's children, and Miquella and Malenia are explicitly states as Radagon's children.
Godrick and Godwyn are never given explicit information on who their paternal lineage is tied to, and that is very suspicious.
You're also assuming that Marika ruled with Placidusax. We have no indication that Placidusax interacted with any humans, numens, or otherwise. His "god who fled" is never stated to have been an Empryean, or anything, other than a "god"
guys one question is there ever actually a visible sun in the game or is it just the erdtree that gives light to the sky
what if godwyn is actually the nameless king and not gwyn?....
Psssst. You should check out the Elric of Melnibone by Michael Moorcock. A lot of the metaphysics and concepts draw from him. Moongrum=Moonglum
Any specific book I should read or start with?