Godwyn Sacrificed Himself to Destined Death - Elden Ring Lore Theory
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- Shadow of the Erdtree launches in one week's time! I have decided that before we get more information I wanted to throw a few of my crazier spoiler-free theories out there.
The night of the black knives is a huge event in the history of the lands between, how was everyone involved? Let's discuss!
Following this Upload I will be streaming on Twitch to discuss my ideas and brainstorm with you all!
Twitch.tv/dekuzek
A special thank you to: / @dscinematics for allowing me to use some of their cinematics in my videos! 
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![Sean Rii, Karyon, Sharzkii - Taungule [My Love] (Official Music Video)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJoMuypbSzQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Marika's Ascension was NOT legitimate; AND IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING [Elden Ring Lore]](/img/1.gif)
QUICK NOTE: As of the DLC it was revealed that my previous theory about Marika creating the finger was incorrect, so take some of the info around that with a grain of salt.
Honestly, given what we do now know about the Two Fingers and their actual “Mother,” the rest of the theory can still follow given our new understanding. They were defective, and both Marika and Ranni wanted to escape their corrupted guidance.
Regarding the sword by Miquella, I think that the "please die a true death" was after Miquella seeing that his brother did not die and was in a sort of limbo. So since he didnt die a proper death (from the Erdtree or a real death) and he was a rotting, spreading corpse, Miquella was wishing he died for real, to end that undead state Godwyn is in.
It is possible. The reason I considered it being made before hand was because of the prayer sounding like it's in a present/future tense and that it was placed in the Hero's Grave, to me that puts them together. Again, that is speculation as we don't know for sure.
@@Dekuzek yep, I think both are possible. These discussions are why I love the lore and this world
@@elricmon2099 Oh totally! I remember putting the Dark Souls story together and thinking it was complex and difficult. Elden Ring has brought the storytelling to a new level, so many questions, so many potential outcomes, I love it!
DLC SPOILERS
with the ending known, he calls 'Lord brother' Radhan not Godwyn
the showr might have been created after Malenia and Radhans battle when he lost his mind
@@wawrzys9824 Its hard to say, I think it's a good point though! It's just hard to say when Miquella left for the Realm of Shadow.
It is possible that he refers to all of his male siblings as Lord Brother.
I'll definitely look into this again and see how it works out.
My theory has always been that Ranni orchestrated these events entirely to create her own age. I still don't think Marika had anything to do with it since the whole Radagon/Marika thing makes me question how she'd plan that, and given that the finger reader crones are unreliable narrators at best. I still believe Ranni knew 100% what she was doing and betrayed everyone at that point, placing the blame squarely on the Black Knives for the entirety of the plot. The last thing her plan hinged on was someone like The Tarnished. Someone who could take her form which did not have the power to go to the places it needed to go, and to gather the things she needed to finish her plot. Iji couldn't, he's no warrior, Blaidd is literally incapable of betraying the Golden Order, and Seluvis is a conniving rat.
I used to think this same thing and she was very evil which is why every playthrough I put a ring on net finger but this guy's theory really got me. I think it might be true.
Quite the opposite. Marika planned to wed Ranni to Godwyn and then sacrifice Ranni as the next kindling maiden, taking Marika’s place. This is why Ranni revolted and then divested her soul from her flesh.
What I would think is that Marika had nothing to do with the night of the black knives, yes, it was Ranni who planned the strike to avoid being controlled by the greater will, but there how's Miquella involved in all this? I think Miquella was not very fond of Marika, he actually could have lend aid to the tarnished to end Marika's golden order (giving away torrent to us), Melina might be the Gloam eyed Queen who was betrayed by Marika/Radagon (when they set Seduction in the last trailer I wonder if it was Radagon who seduced the gloam eyed Queen to take her down and her Elden Ring), so she might be part of the equation. During the first Elden Ring trailer we see Marika destroying the Elden Ring, probably that's the gloam eyed Queen Elden Ring to pluck the rune of death out of it, then Radagon trying to amend it when Godwin was killed, we see how him being unable to mend it gets frustrated (almost like crying in the process). What do you think?
Seluvis woulda got bitchslapped for trying to poison her lmao
Marika brings the tarnished back to life to bring in a new age. It’s through her that we are given the guidance of grace. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to think she gave her favorite kids a chance too idk. Too much coincidences and crossing over in the lore for marika not to have been involved in the notbk
Ranni just foiling everyone’s plans
Another thing because you are making a good point, with the golden epitath being a possible sign miquella was involved would make it now at least 5 of the gods involved. Ranni, marika, miquella, and godwyn are explained here but rykkard has the blasphemous claw too. The only ones we cant directly tie to the night of the black knives are malenia and radahn.
I have a feeling that Radahn and Ranni had a falling out when Radahn froze Ranni's fate with the stars. Could be an explanation as to why.
Not sure why Malenia would be left out except for maybe the worry about how the Rot could effect things.
@@Dekuzek if miquella is involved malenia most likely followed but all I'm saying is we don't have direct evidence of it. I just like how it's starting to feel like a murder on the Oriental express event where everyone was responsible for or involved in the night of the black knifes
At first, I was staunchly against Marika being involved in the Night of the Black Knives, let alone Godwyn, but this video has made me rethink my position a bit. Hopefully, the DLC will give us more information regarding Marika, Godwyn, & Miquella, but I do find this theory interesting.
Thanks for watching!
Hmmm… maybe Godwyn, whom we can safely assume was a badass formidable warrior, didn’t sacrifice himself. Maybe he was put to sleep and then got backstabbed. 🤔
I still really like your interpretation of the events. Him sacrificing himself as the ultimate act of love and devotion is plausible. Great video!
Thanks for watching! Sleep is an aspect I hadn't thought of and depending on Miquella's involvement is definitely a possibility.
The thing is though Malaketh is talking about the shattering of the elden ring as the betrayal (of the fingers) hes "gone crazy" like all shadowbound beasts when their emperyan goes against the Fingers/GW. Marika went against the fingers, thus he is betrayed.
Happy to have subbed. This is good stuff and very well thought out.
Glad you enjoyed!
Besides the "Marika created the two fingers" bit, I think you really cooked with that theory
I think that ranni, Godwin, and miquella conspired to create the night of black knives and bring back true death. But ranni betrayed the plan by marking herself with the other half of the curse mark. I believe she hid her two fingers away prior to the night to protect them during her bodiless absence until things shook out and she could take them out herself. The rest is just a waiting game until she could push the right tarnished in her plans direction, which is why she’s present at the first church.
Could be! I personally think Marika has to be involved somehow with the stealing of death from Maliketh. There is too much connecting her to a betrayal of him for her not to have been involved.
However, I did have a consideration that Marika stole death for her own purpose and someone stole a piece from her, however we don't have any evidence of this so I see option 1 being more likely.
I always liked how you could do Ranni and Rogier's quests in tandem, and Ranni never thought twice about teaming up with you, even though you could've betrayed her for all she knew, but because of her ability to look at things pragmatically, she worked with you anyway. This theory supports that.
Who is Ranney???
🤣🤣
It's Midwest Ranni
I'm going crazy.
😂
This is an interesting theory although I'd like to add that Ranni's brother Rykard was involved in some way of the plan and knew about it and I'd like to know how he fits into all this. She even had Rykard prepared to seemingly fight maliketh over this.
You can find this information out directly from an in game item the blasphemous claw which description directly states
"A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death.
Can deflect the power of the Black Blade.
On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death."
I hope more people get behind the theory that Marika also helped orchestrate the Night Of Black Knives.
Not only is it stated that the Black Knives assassins have close ties with her but they're also Numen just like her.
Post dlc release we now know she's no stranger to abandoning her kids.
She didn't break the elden ring out of grief. It was the next part of the plan.
Not bad. 2 things:
1) might wanna rectify Marika creating the Two Fingers after the DLC revealed Metyr. Though it is possible the Two Fingers only appeared with Marika's ascension to godhood, as they're different compared to primal finger creepers in that the Two-Fingers have hair. It's likely that Metyr created the Two-Fingers specifically for Marika & her Golden Order.
2) there was no way Marika could've sent Ranni's Two Fingers into space because the stars are beyond her jurisdiction. Her powers revolve around Order, and whatever allowances Metyr gave her, as Marika was a conspirator & puppet to the mother of fingers the whole time.
Other than that, you bring up a great point about the plot of sacrificing Godwyn to re-introduce destined death to the world by becoming a god of death himself, which ended very badly
There is one way for Marika to halt the fingers from ever arriving; Radahn. Hes a golden order loyalist and he freezes the cosmos, and Ranni cannot kill her fingies until hes dead.
Except Metyr didn't create specific fingers for Marika Metyr after giving birth to the fingers, abandoned them all, she was broken long before they were born and the fingers inherited this broken nature and it was twisted into a weird obsession for a mother figure; the fingers themselves could no longer be in contact with their mother as Metyr hid herself away the only fingers you fight in the finger birthing grounds are the fingers she gives birth to at that moment and she's basically has gone insane as Ymir said because she wants to contact the greater will who Metyr believes at this point had abandoned them forever but desperately calls out to it. The two fingers were already the two fingers when Marika met them considering hiw the fingers looked and how they moved I can see how even the Hornsets might have worshipped the fingers as well as hvaing a connection to the scadutree and spiral afterall even the spiral image can be seen being used by Metyr no doubt the two fingers themselves saw this as an opportunity. That or the Fingers were the ones who spread the religion of the Hornsets and Marika was so absorbed in her Vengeance she didn't notice it as the Fingers were truly the best Manipulators in the story, they attached themselves to the Empyreans and manipulate their destiny whatever the men
this is the best video regarding the night of the black knives on the internet!
also you can see that after the night of the black knifes the sovereign alliance couldn't work because of the involvement of more than one demi god in the plot, i think this shows the antagonistic relationship that the demi-god have towards each other in the shattering war, so marika by involving part of her children in the plot of the knives made the shattering war end in an stalemate to let the tarnished come back to the lands between as per the abandonment of the greater will as in the knight of the black knives was the first domino to fall and the last being tarnished being risen
that's a part of my theory about the night of the black knives that wasn't in the video other than this your theory is exactly what i expect from a G.R.R.M and Miazaki writing a hidden plot in the game for us to unravel, as in a murder mystery us and rogier are trying to solve as sherlock and watson .
Glad you enjoyed! These complex and incomplete stories have been the most exciting to research and theorize about! While I hope we get more answers in the DLC I look forward to the additional questions that will come up!
solid stuff, i like ur ideas man. subbed.
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed
you cooked w this one bro, this changed my outlook on the lore heavily, i wonder now if miquellas whole goal is that he wanted godwyn buried in the hero’s grave, but when his death was deemed improper he was buried underneath and that pissed miquella off since his prayer became obsolete and his brother now disgraced, he then starts enacting his plan against the erdtree having to divest his flesh to somehow contact godwyns soul and resurrect him for a true death, a fight against our tarnished.
Thanks I'm glad you liked it! I think Miquella's character has so much potential since we know so little about him. I can't wait to find out more about him in the DLC.
I have a feeling that Miquella's grand plan is to try and find a way to revert the Lands Between back to a time before Marika and the Greater Will took over hoping that it will remove the influence of the Outer Gods, helping Malenia and maybe Godwyn (If we think that the Outer God of Death is causing Godwyn's curse)
@@Dekuzek that’s a good point, i never even considered the outer god of death, don’t the death birds have something to do w it?
@@kysonmiller5592 Yeah, there is a few mentions of it. Ghostflame, the Deathrite Birds, Helphen Steeple and Rancorcall all reference back to the god of/servants of Death.
@@Dekuzek yea hope we get more on that it’s rly vague, we have like nothing 😂 helphen steeple underrated too
Honestly, we need some sort of secret interaction between us and Godwyn after we beat Maliketh.
Just to let him finally truly rest.
It's one thing I didn't like about Fia's ending. You don't actually solve the problem of death blight, you just create an order where those who live in death are accepted, which doesn't really solve the issue.
Or sacrifice ranni soul for Godwyn
@@ssj-rose4572 I'd rather sacrifice your incultured and uneducated arse.
Despite what she did, Ranni had a very good reason. Gods(inner and outer), demigods, and even certain mortals have messed with the Order of things. Just like Goldmask, Ranni aims to remedy that. People born and die as they should, no more crazy abberations, no more curse upon omens, no more Shattering wars, no more madness, no more withering curse of being unable to die. The order is now untouchable, unseen, unheard, untamperable by neither gods, nor mortals. That's what her ending is. But localisers botched everything and mistranslated it. As well as most stuff in the game.
Fire video I’m liked and subbed
Its obvious why... she needed a snicker. She's not her self when she is hungry
all the demigods are pieces of marika after divesting herself of some kind of malediction
Thank you. This was great.
Great theory, the biggest question and all of all for me is what the hell is Marikas motivations because once we figure that out it will answer so many other questions.
Yeah it's hard to say with the info we have. Hoping we get more in the DLC
I think that Marika planned all this because removing Destined Death caused unintended consequences (i.e.,Those Who Live In Death). She needed to start everything over again. Her order was flawed from the beginning (see Ansbach). She got Ranni and Godwin on her side, and both volunteered to sacrifice different parts of themselves.
Also, I think Messmer burned down the Erdtree (Great Tree?), which is why there's only a sliver of the original tree left and the rest is illusion. Perhaps Melina was caught in the fire. This would have ruined her purpose, which is why she is looking for her purpose in the base game.
So much lore!
Keep it up! I like your videos.
Thanks for watching!
I think she realized who her king consort was going to be
I like the theory that Godwyn was cursed with deathblight (as all of Marika's birthed decents are afflicted with something), as deathblight is not an effect associated with the rune of death and appears used by ancient deathbirds. Deathvlight starting at the lower extremity may not have been obvious enough to diminish Godwyns outward appearance. I suspect that Godwyn was slain in spirit, while Rani was slain in body as an attempt to sever his fate. I suspect that Castle Sol and the resurrection attempt was pre-planned yet failed. Such hubris may explain the martyrdom and the reluctant acceptance of being the Lord of the Duskborn, as the 'plan' was to be brought back.
I hadn't really thought about that but that is an interesting theory! Definitely makes sense of why the death spells use the cursemark instead of the rune of death when cast
Marika did not want Goldwyn to die,she was duped that is why Ranni has you do her bidding yet the black knives go after igi and blaid There was a betrayal within the conspirators.The fingers were not made by Marika the DLC tells us who did.Marika was tempted by power to become a god from the fingers.Seduction,then she found being a god was a prison as well as being cursed.She only wanted the unwanted children to be killed not Godwyn,Radagon wanted Godwyn to die you are close there.Godwyn could be a lord of the ring he was in the way of Radagons plans.And yes he was taking over that is why the tarnished were removed as well.But Marika made it so they could come back and kill radagon long before Godwyn died that was planned.That was not what Godwyn wanted to live in death and rot forever.Plans did not go down the way they planed it.Someone Radagon most likely did this,then like a chicken locked himself in thorns and hid like a coward.
I think miquella had Goldwyn mind controlled to be a consort so this plan was hatched. Great video!
My general theory (which is part of a recent epiphany I had about the lore entirely) about godwin’s death is -
Like how radagon is the other half of marika, godwin was the other half of ranni. So to stop the greater will from taking full control of her like that of marika with radagon she devised a plan to make that impossible; and to stop the flow of the dew by poisoning the erdtree with godwin’s body and slow down the response time of the two fingers to the greater will.
With marika, realizing that the greater will was more of a curse than an boon. Indirectly aided in the plan by giving access to crumbling farum azula where malaketh is and giving the newmen women who were close to her to become the black knifes. With her killing one of the knifes to shift the blame away from her to cause enough of a blindspot to the greater will to shatter the elden ring and cause it to loose control of the lands between. And when the lands were weak and tired of war, the tarnished would return and take control as they see fit.
An interesting theory for sure! It's fun to see how everyone puts the lore pieces together
I mean, she can't target her siblings from Renalla since they are closer. Miquella and Malenia are both powerful Empyrians like her. Also I think those two are always together, making it hard to target 1. With Mohg and Morgott, she probably didn't even know they exist. Messmer is in the land of shadow (which she can't access even if she knew he was there). And lastly, Melina has no body to kill.
That leaves Godwin as the only logical choice left.
There was a theory that the Crimson Spearlike object that pierced through Marika's Womb was caused by the Tarnished ,after releasing destined death and defeating the Black Blade Maliketh. Becasue the rune of death was removed from the elden ring a long time ago and since by unbounding the rune of death it just returned to the Elden Ring which is also the Elden beast which is also inside Queen Marika. And Since The Impenetrable thorns have been burned by Melina the Entrance of the Erdtree was now open.
And then After Maliketh was defeated the Rune of death just returned to where it belonged, and by doing so the Elden Beast was given a Crack like mark during the battle hence rendering it wounded by the time we arrived inside the Erdtree after defeating Radagon.
That's an interesting one I haven't heard before! It does make some sense for sure!
It seems like all the demigods are born cursed and I think that somehow plays into it.
I don't think he was skipped.
Maybe his curse hadn't manifested yet or he was cursed to spread death or be the catalysts for the end of the Golden Order or something like that and his fate was inevitable.
I think that the only cursed children are the ones birthed by Marika/Radagon. The omen twins, aren't actually cursed, it's just seen as a curse because of Marika's distain for the Hornsent. Godwyn, Radahn, Ranni and Rykard aren't cursed.
So it seems that there is something with the birthing from a single god that inflicts curse. Probably the games way of saying 'incest bad'
@@Dekuzekis Marika having children with Radagon incest? I always perceived Radagon and Marika as being biologically distinct people. They are a result of one entity’s soul being split into two. As in when Radagon incarnated he was born to his own parents and is not genetically related to Marika; he just IS half of her soul. The half the Greater Will can control still. You could think of Marika/Radagon as an Alchemical Rebus that was split apart forcibly by The Greater Will for ‘some’ reason…. I think the children of Radagon and Marika are cursed because they were conceived by one soul. I always believed that the reason we see Radagon come out of Marika’s corpse when we fight him is because as a prt of him trying to mend the Elden Ring, he first had to merge once more with Marika. But I do not think they were always merged in body. I think for most of the history of the game there was only Marika and then she strayed from The Greater Will and so the Greater Will forced Radagon to incarnate by splitting Marika’s soul in half. This theory requires accepting some outside inspiration such as the concept of a “Rebus”. But I don’t think it’s an accident that this game reminds me esoteric/occult Alchemy. But I think Marika caught onto the Greater Will, discovered who was born with half her soul and she tried to merge with him again but couldn’t because the Greater Will’s interference. So she conceived children with Radagon. To subvert the Greater Will. But this too backfired, inflicting what were supposed to be her perfect empyreans into cursed beings. Perhaps her punishment for her Original Sin was having her soul split in half at the moment she achieved Godhood as a way to hinder her further ruining The Greater Will’s plan.
She shatters the elden Ring so that the erdtree will call back the tarnished she exiled thru the guidance of grace
we should not forget the belfry teleport she literally teleport in and out
My head cannon is that Marika wanted out herself but Godwyn got caught on the throne. I think marika was meant to be ended. Still trying to replace herself with radagon who she sent to make a new divine gate and become a god on his own. He was absolved of this mission and became guided by the moon.
She gave up. Shattered the ring.. she has all power but cant protect the people she loves. She then tells the kids hey go do what u gone do but if you dont make anything of urself u will be sacrifice to whomever does rise.
It's the "you have yet to become a God" line for me after she sent him to wage war on a kingdom like Mesmer against the horny.
I think Godwyn was sent by Marika to the land of shadows to stop Mesmer. You have to die to get there or whatever they say so,
It could be, but Godwyn's death would be the reverse of that unfortunately. It is said that Miquella divested his flesh, where Godwyn's soul is destroyed but his body remains.
Dude, very well done! I think this really is most likely the truth
Thanks for watching!
Marika is hope, hope that one day someone will come with a weapon that can slay a god and the will to do so
The succession of Marika was on the horizon. Ranni and Godwyn were the best shot to renew the golden order.
Anyways I believe that Marika could've in some way used the snow crone to influence Ranni and orchestrate the event and that Godwyn was willing to sacrifice himself.
It all culminates in the Age of Stars ending, we saved Marika from her fate and fulfilled our mission.
Totally agree, I spoke in my last video about how Empyreans were chosen in a way that seems to only end with the GW being replaced by some other god or removed. (Moon, Rot, Unalloyed) I think Marika knew her time was coming, and decided that she didn't want to leave the world for the GW and tried to ensure the success of her Demi-Gods
Interesting, but wouldnt it be easier to just reintegrate the rune of death into the ER? Or is that not possible?
I think that was the end goal, but it would have been a big societal shift which is why I think she laid this plan, as a way to get the citizens of the Lands Between to accept death's integration rather than revolting against her.
I think it was Just because Gdowyn was the perfect golden child that marika wanted and he prolly would’ve prolly been the primary Inheritor of the Golden order
And Ranni knew if she killed him then Marika would lose her mind and as a mother will and has done React in a violent and emotional way
My theory is that like Marika is Radagon, Ranni was Godwyn
She targeted him bc her father left her mother for Marika and Godwyn was Marikas not cursed and favorite son. Plus Ranni couldn’t target Miquella or Malenia bc they were her half siblings while Godwyn was of no relation….kinda sorta
Banger ass theory man
Thank you! Glad you liked it
holy crap subbed. You are so right. thats why they call him the death prince. it wasnt on accident. I think the DLC reaaaaaly reinforces your ideas
I'm still confused was this all because they were afraid that Radagon will eventually take over and kill all of them?
I think the goal was Marika trying to fix her order or have a means to destroy the greater will. We know she was planning for the removal of Radagon/Elden Beast for quite some time based on her banishing the tarnished with a plan to bring them back, this just seems like one step before giving up on everything. Which she does by shattering the Elden Ring.
Marika is basically the Joker from The Dark Knight. Someone who just wants to see the world burn.
She does seem all over the place. I have a feeling she may have come into everything with good intentions. Making choices when the 'ends justify the means' only to realize that the end was not what she expected and realized she needed fix it.
Hoping we get a clearer picture with the DLC!
Cool vid
Have some rambling for more engagement
Ive thought that Godwin was picked because of lack of opportunities
Both Rycard and Renala were on her side (blasphemous claw for Rycard if things went south with Maleketh)
Godrick was either too weak or too good at hiding in castles and groups of women to target
Radan was picking fights with stars so probably not the best match to bet on
The omen twins might not have been known (Morgot might have known them but maybe not vise versa) as the only interaction shown (to my memory) was morgot trying to stab Radan in the opening
And the OTHER twins probably outsmarted or outspeed assassins(?)
OR he was the only one with a great connection to the magic tree (everyone else either having other outer gods or not caring)
Finally I thought Malekeths abandonedment was the trick (why wasn't he just in the tree?)
That was my Ted talk goodnight
Also thought that the meteorite was astel but idk I'm no lore hunter
The big meteorite that crashed down in Limgrave is different from the Finger crashing down. That big meteorite could be Astel, but some items mentioning Astel talk as if it has been there for a long time. I agree with you that it is Astel crashing down
I just think based on the timeline of events, the crater that we find them in, the hole in the roof of Manus Celes and all the other fingers being dead, they must not have been underground the whole time. Taking their similarity in colour to Starlight shards into account I think it's safe to assume they were held in the cosmos until we defeat Radahn.
What if Godwyn decided to sacrifice himself for Ranni, and not cos Marika orchestrated it? That would explain to me, why Marika was so crushed by grief, and decided to basically burn it all and shatter the elden ring, thus betraying everyone
It could be, but I couldn't find any evidence of Ranni having involvement with Godwyn. But, with this game you never know haha
@@Dekuzek mmm, not evidence, but the assumption from how he's being held by Black knives, while they carve the half rune, pretty gently and supporting his weight by hands, as if he was a willful sacrifice. And that would explain, why Michela would write such an epitaph before Godwyn's death, not after, as if he knew Ranni's plans, and (a phat theory of mine) may be that's why he sent Malenia to fight Radahn on his territory, to kill him and set Ranni's fate back running to find the piece of the weapon to kill her Two fingers as well. But hey, that's just a theory
@@user-hs9jx6wj9d I also thought that about how he is positioned in that image, it definitely looks like they are carving it while supporting him not while he tries to escape.
I do like the idea of Malenia being sent to kill Radahn to set Ranni's fate back in motion, that is a neat idea!
@@Dekuzek btw, atm I'm replaying ER, and Ranni mentions, that the Bell of awakening was given to her by Torrent's former master, who told her to give it to us, and we have a running theory, that Melina could be one of the aspects of Miquela, that theoretically implies, that Ranni knows him pretty close, as noone ever mentions, that he had a pet. So, I'm thinking, that these two could easily conspire Godwyn's death together. I'm hyped, that dlc is much closer now, and we will finally put all theories to the test
I hope Kitetales sees this
Ranni simps: endless essays to rationalize their choices
Goldmask enjoyers: (T)
this is an interesting thesis
Dlc reveals those who live in death have been around before marika rose to godhood
In light of the dlc, I wonder if Marika didn’t plan for Godwyn infecting the lands between with deathblight. If the lands between were born from the sacrifices of the lands of shadow, maybe the only way to undo the damage is to consume the lands between with death, causing a rebirth in the lands of shadow, which is possibly her true homeland (the whole numen thing a lie)
In the DLC we find out exactly where Marika is from. I won't spoil it if you haven't finished the DLC but we know where she is from. I have a video planned right now that will talk about Marika's origins.
You cant tell me the man who defeated and befriended the ancient dragons just sat there and let the curse mark be carved into him without it being of his own will. Also the maliketh line about betrayal is such a good point, i always assumed the betrayal was the sealing of destined death but the way you describe it made perfect sense. Also i think its important to mention that the late game rememberances directly spoil lore aspects(the rot goddess remeberance reaffirms the "radagon is marika" thing) so this could be an example of a late game rememberance giving the game away
Hmmm, that's an interesting thought I never picked up on haha. The end game remembrances are just giving away things that people may have not figured out. Good call out!
They were invisible and there were several of them. Before the shattering none of the kids had fragments of the great rune.
@@DrooledOn how can you explain the twinned runes like the omens twins, the cursed twins, or radahn and rykard? Did each pair just happen to have matching runes?
Black knife assassins are just that good, it is what it is
@@copyninja8756 this is a lazy excuse. This is like going " it's just so you can fight godrick again!" In reference to Godefroy
Unhinged title?lets fuking go
One problem with Marika being involved with the Night of the Black knives: it seems to be out of Character.
In light of the dlc: we learn of her origin, how she lost her entire village and everyone she cared about.
How is this relevant? The removal of the Rune of Death seems to be a trauma response.
She doesn't want to lose anyone she cares about.
We also learn in the story trailer that the knight of the black knives pushed Marika to the brink and probably shattered the elden ring as a result of that.
Godwyns death would've been a triple whammy on said trauma:
1) the possibility of losing people he cares about now exists.
2) her Son died.
3) Godwyn is now a giant death Cancer spreading death blight throughout the lands between and shadow realm. Spawning those who live in death
Edit: oh i see this is pre-dlc.
Theres alot of holes poked into this theory thanks to the dlc
I do agree, the DLC changed my perspective on a few things and I would like to revisit this theory soon. I won't say too much now since I haven't given too much thought to it with the DLC info in mind but.
The DLC tries to paint Marika in 2 lights, One side is kindness. With the Minor Erdtree incant, it mentions 'the kindness of gold without order' and I think this is hinting towards Marika being the 'kindness' and Radagon being the 'order.' (Similar to Miquella & St. Trina) the second is as a wrathful and merciless god, as we can see by the Scadutree Avatar Remembrance where it says 'The Scadutree is the shadow of the Erdtree. Born of dark notions that bear no sense of Order.' Pointing to this action also being Marika alone, and not Radagon.
I agree with you that the removal of death is an emotional reaction to losing her people and the suffering inflicted upon her by the Hornsent. I think that we can see how Marika didn't just want justice for her people but to try and create a world without suffering, with her Age of plenty, her personal blessings, and removing death was part of that.
However, I do think Marika found the fault in her order as a lack of death has it's own problems. I do agree that the Shattering was majorly influenced by the Night of the black knives, but I think that the breaking point was not Godwyn dying (as I mention in the video I think this was a plan amongst everyone) but it was the fact that Godwyn did not die a true death that sent her over the edge. Godwyn being the only non-cursed child, becoming cursed.
That's a working theory right now, and I'm not entirely stuck on the theory being true, just brainstorming.
Godwyn, imho, was meant to die, not only that but i believe he agreed to it. what wasnt supposed to happen was Ranni's sabotaging of the event. i dont know if the black knives were supposed to be used as the instrument or if he was supposed to be killed through normal means
To me, I think the Black Knives were necessary as a way to wield destined death, to give Godwyn a true death.
Godwyn history is really a tragedy. A perfect son, a symbol of an Order, a hero that defended the capital against the most strong creatures to ever live and even created an alliance with them. He is the first son of Marika with the first Elden Lord, he was even called ¨¨the golden¨¨, and then, he was killed with a knife in his back. Was his death necessary? was it worth for Ranni ending?...
Honestly, the best ending seems to be the Goldenmask. It is not the coolest, but seems to be the most wise. Goldenmask ending seems to fix everything going wrong, he is not going to forsake this world, or abandon him, he is not going to extreme decisions, he gets a rune to fix. He basically tries to reach perfection, and fix the mistakes of Gods and man.
Godwyn is a figure if the order that has long settled itself in the lands between. Although tolerant(to dragons, and glintstone sorcerers), this order was oppressive, especially to those considered without grace, or without light(the omens).
He might be "golden", but he's associated with something that isn't. He had brothers afflicted with the omen curse, but he doesn't do anything about it. Instead we're shown with how kind he was, befriending the dragon that attacked leyndell, and later on forming a cult.
Ranni saw through this hypocrisy, and that is why I believe she killed Godwyn, and herself. She recognizes that her existence as an empyrean can be a tool to free the men of TLB. With our help, she establishes a new order where no new orders can be formed(basically orderless), where gods cannot intervene(even herself), and where men are free. A true libertarian. But it is ambiguous in a sense that we do not know how the people of TLB will act once this takes place.
Gold mask's ending perfects the golden order, upholding its core values(ruthless and oppressive to those outside the order), but also removing the fickleness of men and demigods. Just like Ranni's, it is ambiguous in a sense that we do not know what comes after this. Maintaining an order, the golden order, might not be the best thing since you're not removing the influence of the greater will. As far as we know, there are other gods(the giants have their god, which was slain). There could be others just waiting.
I honestly do feel like Ranni's, and Gold mask's endings are of the same coin, but on the opposite sides. They're both ambiguous, and just as positive as they are negative.
While we deviate on Marika's method (in my video I argue she is akin to voldemort and her special children are her horcruxes), I LOVE how you call out godwyn as a martyr and use the finger reader as evidence. I wish I'd seen that before I made my video because that's a 10/10 point 😂
One note, when you were mentioning who else was conspiring- the item description of the blasphemous claw confirms rykard was allied with Ranni in the night of the black knifes. 😁 perhaps he had something to do with this profane ritual that created the knives, or he was in on it as a backup plan if there was a fall through.
She REWARDS him with it too, so clearly she is in charge.
Since I believe ranni is marika, obviously my take is a little different, in that I believe once ranni was positioned as she wants her to be she shattered the ring as the gunshot to signal the start of the finish of her grand plan 😁
10/10 video, sir!
Thank you! I think the Blasphemous Claw was a back up plan incase Maliketh came looking for the fragment. It says in the description that it is a way for Rykard to challenge Maliketh is the coming trespass is the transpire. I wasn't able to find any direct involvement from Rykard but its definitely possible he was involved in some way.
@Dekuzek the blasphemous claw is evidence of their alliance, it doesn't get much more clear cut than that lol
In addition, the official outside of melinas room has an outfit very reminiscent of the executioners in the paintings in rykards manor.
The carpet in the room is a variation of raya lucaria / caria too, so it's one giant conspiracy, by the looks of it l.
Ya Godwyn took out that huge dragon whose spear I took . No way a few weak black knives took him out unwillingly. He let himself for some reason like he gave up cuz he knew about marikas past or something. And the fingers didn’t come from marika now the dlc is out
Think we'll get a 2nd dlc dealing with godwyn and the egg renalla has? I know the egg is more of just a way to let people re-spec like in dark souls 3...but it would be interesting
I doubt it. I think Godwyn's story was settled in the base game, I'm personally okay with Godwyn's story and how it wraps up with Fia and the Deathbed ending. The egg is interesting but I agree that I think it is going to be left as a gameplay mech rather than a key lore piece.
I would love a second DLC specifically to deal with the GEQ, Melina and Torrent lore but that's wishful thinking.
I don't think we will get anymore ER DLC and I'm a bit disappointed in the state of the lore because of that.
The lore was so much fun pre-DLC because I was expecting more hints into key lore aspects that we didn't get and it's been a bit hard to get excited about the lore with what feels like a lot of missing pieces.
Hoping that as time goes on we can put more together that is missing.
@@Dekuzek yeah, I think they're probably just going to leave the GEQ story to our imaginations and theories 😅 I'm also afraid there won't be a second dlc with all the effort they put into this one.
Good theory, wished people saw this more.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed it
The conspiracy was between Ranni and Rykard
Elden Ring seems obsessed with dichotomy, and I feel it plays out in nearly asset.
Like the term outer gods implying "inner" gods, I think the Greater Will implies a lesser will, one that perhaps it overcame through some conflict.
I think Death itself might be the "lesser" will, and might by a God relating to the soul or spirit.
The Greater Will seems to only be of flesh and stone, never of spirit. In fact, it seems that Marika herself is who created "Grace", a cheap replacement for a guiding soul and perhaps the Greater Will loved this better than the fingers. Except that Grace belonged to her and not it.
It seems that Death was not a power they could control correctly or knew how to use, but perhaps it was being wielded correctly by another God and its avatars correctly in the Gloom Eyed Queen and her own demigods.
I don't think Godwyn died of his own accord, hence the need for assassins, but I do think he was the perfect weapon against the Erdtree and Golden Order. To eat it from the inside.
I do really wish we got more Gloam Eyed Queen info, but I feel like maybe Melina was a mix between both sides. From Marika and the Gloam.
I get his idea that all these characters are dual beings, one is a soul and the other is the body. Ranni is the soul and Godwyn is the body. She separated herself from her body by separating herself from Godwyn.
Well...I'm ng+4 about to go fight radahn in Calid before I enter the dlc for the second time. So glad I have more videos like this to watch as I speed run the shit out if it. (I'm gonna die like 100000 times)
I think marika planned everything.
The shattering was basically a stalemate between the greater will and those resisting it, a stalemate that lasted for thousands of years until some random tarnished came back into the picture.
The greater will had to kill her but still keep her there as a vessel after the ring was shattered, in order to maintain the last vestiges of its power.
The queen is sacrificing herself so the King can get the kill. Like a huge game of chess where someone was able to castle multiple times and willing to sacrifice everything in order to triumph. Some Enders game/end-game sort of scenario.
The tragedy is that all the people who idolized Godfrey were upholding an order that he was spurned by, and was set up as the inevitable usurpation of it.
Radahn, Morgott, etc. some of the most righteous characters are just pawns in the games of a power that doesn’t care for them ultimately.
Maybe Maliketh killed Marika, since the beasts are programmed to do that if empyreans rebel against the greater will.
Is that why he’s a monk? Is him being careless for one second really the reason he turns into an ascetic? Maybe he betrayed Marika, just like she betrayed him.
Idk, nobody has explained why she has that destined death blade in her. Food for thought.
I agree, Marika has a grand plan all along. I think the Tarnished & her words in the Church Of Pilgrimage confirm this.
As for the spear of death she is impaled with, I think she did this herself as a last ditch effort to destroy the Elden Beast.
Great theory, I enjoyed it. Although I’m not sure why marika would bother with all these complicated schemes when she could have just told maliketh she wanted to re-establish death into the golden order. It would have been an instant solution to her issue if that’s what she wanted. He would have been happy to oblige her but that’s just my two cents.
Maybe not. Maliketh is addicted to death at this point, constantly hungering for it. When he dies, he wonders if this what it was like to sin. Maybe Maliketh's sin was to refuse Marika in relinquishing the Rune of Death
I think part of the reason is that Marika had some intentions of using the rune of death on Radagon & or the Elden Beast. We are told that when Empyreans go against the Greater Will/Two Fingers their shadows go mad. Meaning that if Maliketh knew about Marika's plan he would go mad and attack Marika. Therefore she had to steal the rune as to not set off Maliketh.
Those are good arguments, didn’t think of that.
Basically my man got jumped...maybe even hit with the sleep effect (st. Trina BS) and then they went BBC on him....😂
😊
Merika did not create the fingers lol
Who tf is rainy 😂
Marika didnt create the fingers it was maytr the mother of fingers in the lands of shadow
@@evannidominguez395 yeah I put a pinned comment explaining that it was incorrect. This theory came out before the DLC
12:38
HUGE issue with this. Godwyn is still alive!
@@Dastardly_Duo Technically yes, you are right. His body is still alive but his soul is dead. Yet the Golden Epitaph specifically says that it was created to commemorate the DEATH of Godwyn.
Additionally, your point reinforces my thought if we go with it. IF Miquella knows that Godwyns body is still alive, that means he would be aware that Godwyn DID NOT die a true death, in which case his prayer would be meaningless because he already knew his prayer was not granted.
So we enter a situation where either
A) If Miquella knows that Godwyns body is still alive as you say, then the prayer on the Golden Epitaph is pointless, so why would he make it
B) Miquella made the Epitaph knowing Godwyn was going to die and made the prayer (I think this is most likely)
C) Miquella made the Epitaph after Godwyn dies but doesn't know his body is still alive which also doesn't make sense because by that point he would see that Godwyn didn't die a true death because of the deathblight.
The only situation to me that makes sense is that the Golden Epitaph was created before Godwyns soul dies.
@@Dekuzek
My point basically was that people always say he's dead when he's still alive. Remember that people are made up of THREE things, not just 2. We learn from D's armor that people are made up of soul, mind and body. He's only lost his soul
I think that B might be the most plausible choice as well. Personally I think Godwyn may have WANTED this to happen, considering his protection over Fia if you attack her and his closest knights becoming Death Knights for the Age of Duskborn.
I've been trying to make some sort of connections with Godwyn and Dagon from the Chronicles of Nephilim based solely off his mermaid design
@@Dastardly_Duo I think the reason people refer to him as dead is the same reason that I do. It's basically like a brain-dead patient in the hospital, clinically dead, which is essentially what Godwyn is.
He is physically alive but Godwyn the person is gone.
I would fix the spelling error in the title of the video.
Good shout! Thank you
If Marica wanted the rune of death why would she NEED to steal it
Based on what we know about Shadows, they are supposed to be a way for the Greater Will to keep their Empyreans in check. I can't remember currently who says it but it's said in game that Shadows are supposed to turn on their Empyreans if they stray from the Greater Will.
I am thinking that Marika had to steal it because Maliketh would turn on her otherwise.
@Dekuzek fascinating.
This makes me think the Elden Ring and the Tree are not just world conquerors but parasites that extract the powers of the world's natural order.
Idk man, there are many things not fitting:
-Melina's role, who probably is the gloam eyed queen, as she is connected with the rune of death and promise to give you "destined death" if you become the lord of chaos
-Why Iji gets killed by black knife assassins if they were Ranni's allies
-Golden Epitaph is a weapon specific to kill undeads, so Miquella already knew that Godwyn was living in death and wanted him to be unalived completely
Hard to say about the GEQ/Melina having an involvement. We don't know when Melina manifested, and if she existed prior to the Shattering. While she is involved with Destined Death she doesn't have any control over it until after we release it from Maliketh.
Iji & Blaidd are attacked following the killing of Ranni's Fingers. In my other video I theorize that Marika created/controls the Two Fingers. I also believe that the Black Knives are loyal to Marika so I think it's likely that they attack Iji & Blaidd in response to Ranni killing her fingers.
I also don't know if the Golden Epitaph was designed to kill undead. I think it is just a consequence of it being a Holy weapon. Seeing that all Holy weapons are effective against Undead, not just this one.
If we look at the Art of War on the Golden Epitaph, it is called 'Last Rites' which means final prayers/blassings. Meaning it's more likely that this weapon was created as a final prayer for Godwyn, and not designed to kill him/other undead.
Of course this is speculation, so that's just what i believe.
@@Dekuzek I appreciate your pov!
Man i love how the lore is vague enough to let us speculate about it to keep us hooked in a good way :)
I feel that marika was trying to get everyone to be allies, such as I think becoming the prince of death would make the golden order and those that live in death/deathbirds/god of death allies
Sorta like an arranged marriage with death since it happened with that other dragon in the lore with a human form
And it fucked up because it was only a piece of destined death instead of the whole thing, and maliketh did not like this and so they betrayed him
Or maybe he was cool with it, marika fucked it up on purpose to fuck with destined death
I definitely think she unalived herself and thats why only radagon remains
I have a theory coming out tomorrow where I speculate about what the Land of Shadow used to be. One of my main ideas is that prior to Marika, all of the different factions/gods were integrated and collaborated. Sort of like a Tower of Babel situation if you are familiar.
I have a feeling that the GW didn't want that, as the God of Order they would likely see everything intermingled as 'Chaos' and want it to end. Offering Marika Godhood if she can be the ruler of this new Era which would see the end of societal collaboration in favour of a single society under the Golden Order/Erdtree.
I think you are right in a sense that Marika realized that everyone collaborating was a requirement of the world operating properly and tried to bring these other aspects of the world into her order.
@@Dekuzek yeah exactly like the story of babel. Im excited to see it!
Ranny
Thank you for the content! Can't wait to see what you'll have when the DLC drops
Thanks for watching!
It's just hair envy.
Good ass video, but Marika didn’t make the fingers, Metyr did, but that’s dlc
@@Warhead-Games Yeah, I had an earlier video talking about it, I wasn't expecting the taste of Bloodborne we got with Metyr haha
Then why did they need assassins?
100% agreed
I think that's an easy question to answer. 2 reasons,
1) Neither Marika or Ranni wanted to be attached to the NOTBK so the Assassins were there to distance themselves.
2) We know that multiple Demi-Gods were slain that night, the assassins were also created to allow for these deaths as well.
What if it was Radagon (yeah yeah I know he's like the last person that would actually do this but...maybe) helped Ranni and not Marika, Radagon would sacrifice Godwyn, I don't know I just don't see Marika having anything to do with the death of her "perfect" child, Radagon on the other hand, I can see that, besides the catalyst to Marika shattering the Elden Ring was the death of Godwyn, and in reality he would have perfect access to the capital and the Elden Ring heck what if Ranni didn't steal it like she claims, what if her FATHER gave her the fragment of the rune of death, I mean he is just removing Great Runes and giving them away (Renalla's rune) why not Radagon be the main one to help Ranni, but then again if he did......WHY
Main reason I ask why is cause he's trying to repair the Elden Ring which means he doesn't want anything to change, so I don't know but I seriously don't see Marika being involved in the death of her son, unless she was tricked like she tricked the people from the DLC story trailer
Holy crap she tricked him, no she didn't, Radagon did, OMG I don't think I ever heard she tricked him from his dialogue I must have missed that, that makes more sense on how Radagon might have been the one who gave the fragment to Ranni, in my eyes
It's definitely hard to say for sure the NOTBK is like trying to put a puzzle together with 10% of the pieces haha.
In my video I mention that Godwyn being the perfect golden child is exactly why he sacrifices himself for Death. IMO Marika needed a way to make death seem Holy so she could integrate it into the world again, and there is no better way to do that than for Godwyn the Golden to truly die.
Marika didn’t create the fingers tho
Yeah, this and my previous theory came out before the DLC.
I would never understand why people think Ranni's foolishness and conceit leads to a good outcome
Her order is the only one that removes the power of the gods from the Lands Between allowing for the free will of it's inhabitants.
Our other options are:
Fracture, where the world continues to deteriorate with Marika being a shell to house a malformed Elden Ringz
Duskborn, where the world integrates those whole live in death and the cursemark, meaning everyone slowly turns into an undeadz
Frenzy, the world is melted away and gone foreverz
Order, is the only other consideration for a 'good' outcome however, even though the mending rune is designed to keep the Elden Ring from outside influences, we still haven't reintegrated the Rune Of Death meaning the world ends up just like that of the Age of Fracturez
Finally, we have despair, where everyone is cursed by the Dung Eater
To me, Ranni's seems like the best option of the bunch.
Motivations of Ranni are freedom above all. She killed Godwyn, because he was a litteral puppet of Marika and the Greaterwill with no possibility to escape.
So... she grantes him freedom. Entirely. And in the same actions, freed herself as well.
No cutscene to get into dlc, no shadow of miquella, no Godwyn…giant missed opportunities…two years and they still left plot holes and loose ends. Such a shame
So far I'm left feeling the same. We got answer/more hints to things that don't seem that important but were left blank with A LOT, and we had a lot more introduced with little to no context.
Working on putting my thoughts together now
It’s not plot holes or loose ends, this is just how fromsoft does storytelling…they create a world that uses visual storytelling and little clues in item descriptions for the player to try and figure out what happened, it’s purposely left open to interpretation.
The DLC gave us massive lore revelations about Marika’s origins, godhood, ancient civilizations, the greater will, and Miquella…obviously Miyazaki felt that he had said enough about Godwyn/black knives and wanted to expand on a different part of the lore.
Why do people want more of Godwyn? We literally saw his body and his story is pretty much solved
The only thing we learn, or well is kinda my theory, is that Miquella indeed loved his brother, however he didn't want to bring his soul back out of good will or for Godwyn's sake....he wanted to make Godwyn his consort, and Radahn was the backup
It’s all but confirmed that Rykard was Ranni’s conspirator. Others being involved is a possibility, but Marika being involved just makes no sense to me, especially with the DLC lore revelations.
Firstly, if Marika wanted a piece of the death rune, she could just take it. Maliketh is her shadow who does whatever she commands, Marika could just tell him to let her take a part of the rune. Marika is the only reason destined death is sealed away and guarded by Maliketh in the first place. Marika wouldn’t need to trick anyone to get it.
Secondly, Marika’s entire motivation for godhood seems clearly to be creating a world without death, due to her trauma from what happened with her people in the Hornsent jars. I don’t think she would ever want want to willingly release the death rune under any circumstances, even just a piece of it. She despises death.
Thirdly, she has no motivation to kill Godwyn…she didn’t gain anything from it and it’s never implied they had any kind of beef. It makes much more sense to me that if Marika turned on the golden order it was after Godwyns death, and in part because of it, not before.
If Marika wanted to have Godwyn killed she could easily do that, I don’t know why she would have to come up with a secret conspiracy, because she’s the god…who is going to stop her?
A few things.
I don't think Marika sacrificing Godwyn was an act of aggression, rather I think Godwyn was aware that Marika wanted death reintroduced. I agree that she despises death, but there seems to be a turning point for Marika around the time of the Liurnian war.
A bit of speculation but based on some info regarding the Shadow Realm, it is being used as a form of afterlife by Marika/the Lands Between. Since the crusade seems to have happened after the Liurnian war, it seems Marika realized some need for death to exist, and she seems to become jaded with the GW/Metyr during this time. I talk about this a bit in my first video about the Two Fingers. The theory was proven wrong but there are still some insights that I believe. One of those things being that Marika is being taken over by Radagon. I think Marika may have discovered this fate this during the time Radagon/Marika was married to Renalla, where Marika had access to personal preceptors who read the fates in the stars.
Rather than reintroducing the Rune of Death, she tries to create this realm of death to harbor those of the Lands Between. I think this is cause by the sap of the Erdtree drying up, and no longer producing life. Obviously that plan doesn't work, and the Erdtree still does not produce further life. Deciding that death was required and that she didn't want to be taken over by Radagon, she steals the Rune of Death with the plan to bring back death (Godwyn deciding to sacrifice himself as a Martyr) to the Lands Between and also use death for her own purpose, to slay Radagon & the Elden Beast that lived within her.
I think the planned attack on the Elden Beast would have driven Maliketh mad if he knew the plan, leading to him attacking Marika, which is why she steals it, so he would not know, and would not go mad.
@@Dekuzek Ah ok that’s interesting, out of curiosity how did you date the crusade to after the Liurnian war? I guess because Mesmer knows Radahn and was friends with Rellana it would have to be after the war that he was sealed in the shadow lands…that just feels too recent to me though. I always got the impression that Mesmer was hidden from everyone else, since even Gideon didn’t know about him and no one else mentions him in the base game.
My theory is that Radagon is Marika’s other self, literally, as in the same way St. Trina is Miquella’s other self. I think Marika likely discarded Radagon to become a god, the same way Miquella did with his other self. St. Trina was Miquella’s love, while Radagon could be Marika’s faith, loyalty or sense of duty. This is why Radagon is so devoted to the golden order.
So Marika basically created Melina/Mesmer with Radagon very early on before Godfrey (or perhaps in secret or out of wedlock while with Godfrey), then after Godfrey/Liurnian wars, she merged with him again and created Malenia/Miquella.
This to me makes sense with Marika keeping 2 of her children with Radagon secret, calling Radagon “her other self” and a “hound of the golden order” as well as “thou have yet to become me, to become a god.” The only explanation that makes sense to me with Marika having Mesmer and/or Melina pre Godwyn is that she was Radagon from the beginning.
@@donovan4222 Yeah the timeline is really messing me up. Because as you said, Messmer is claimed to be older than Radahn, and Rellana follows him, and we know that Renalla, gives Rellana the black braid for her helmet as a parting gift, meaning that Renalla would have at least somewhat approved of her decision.
I doubt that she would have given her a parting gift if it was pre Liurnian war since there was clear a conflict between Erdtree & Caria. But it has to be somewhere when Radagon and Renalla were married, because Renalla also loses her mind when Radagon leaves.
When Messmer is born is a bit of a mystery because he had to be old enough during the Liurnian wars to then go on to perform the crusade. We see that Melina was held in the locked room by the Forbidden Lands, so I'm assuming something similar happened with Messmer.
It is possible that Messmer was the first born, but I'm not entirely sure.
@@Dekuzek Yeah the timeline with Mesmer makes my brain spin sometimes trying to make sense of it all. One thing I do find interesting is how Melina is a direct parallel to Mesmer. Melina talks about how she is forging her own path regardless of what her mother wants, and she uses her flame to burn the erdtree.
Meanwhile Mesmer dedicates his entire life to Marika’s purpose for him and using his flame to burn the erdtree’s enemies, only to be abandoned.
One other speculation I have for this is that the source of Mesmer’s flame is the same as the fire at mountaintop of the giants. Melina/Mesmer are somehow able to control that flame, which could be another reason why Marika sealed them away/disowned them….so they couldn’t use their power to burn the erdtree.
Nah , frenzied flame is the best ending. Burn all the rot and corruption down and start all over again.
May chaos take the world
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!
Why would Marika need to steal a fragment from Maliketh? He's her shadow, he obeys her
I don't believe it's because she 'had' to, but I think she wanted to hide her plan from Maliketh so she took a fragment without him knowing, only for him to find out later.
@@Dekuzek again, why would she need to hide anything from him if Shadowbound Beasts are completely loyal?
@@gabrieltkacz6754 Two potential reasons. 1) It's mentioned in game that Shadows go mad when their 'masters' go against the greater will. Marika could be trying to avoid this by not informing Maliketh.
2) Marika seems to have been working with at least Ranni. With Maiketh being called 'the death of the demi-gods' and being feared by them, it could also be a way to keep him uninformed about Ranni's involvement to protect her. We do know that Ranni gives Rykard the Blasphemous Claw as protection in case Maliketh comes to attack.
We also don't know exactly how Shadow loyalty works. Based on Maliketh's remembrance, Marika gave him only on task, which was to sea destined death, maybe he cannot be reassigned/changed after being given a duty?
Who are the Shadowbound Beasts Loyal to? The one they shadow or the Greater Will?
@@BloodmoonRises they're loyal to the one they're bound to, but if their master defies the Greater Will, they go insane. That's what happens to Blaidd
nah
My God man I couldn't even get through the first five fucking minutes it's pronounced RON-E
Out of curiosity, was my mispronunciation the only issue you had with the video ?
@@Dekuzek oh yea no great video, honestly I never actually thought about godwyn actually agreeing to what happened but after everything you presented i think you might be right...giving you a follow
@@sixties4206 Thank mate, a few people have mentioned the mispronunciation, going to keep it in mind for future videos. It was a habit I picked up before making videos because my accent makes me sound like I call her Ronnie which I wasn't a fan of.
Nah, Godwyn was first in line and our girl Ranni wasn't having it. Then she f'ed around with magic and found out. But instead of being up front about it, she was like "Everything is proceeding as planned", because she proud. That's what that is. 😂
Definitely possible as well!
Bro your first word is wrong how can we trust you 😂
Why do you keep mispronouncing her name despite the fact that she literally pronounces it for is?
Out of habit, when a spoke with my friends about the game prior to making videos, I didn't like the way I said 'Ronnie'. So I started calling her RAN-E because it didn't matter at the time.
When I made this video I honestly didn't think about the mispronunciation. Have to keep it in mind for future videos.
@@Dekuzek Honestly that's a valid reason, your branding is such a big part of your channel maybe it will become a community in-joke. Try Rah-ni a few times and see if it sounds good. That said, I enjoy your theories even if I don't agree with all of them. You are also pretty confident about headcanon and I guess that can be a benefit in fragmented lore like in ER. And I think your Marika's Past video is a great example of how filling in gaps with universe compatible narrative can make a bunch of item descriptions into a full narrative. Subbed and look forward to your future work.
@@arglebargle42 Thank you, I appreciate it! As much as I would love exact answers for some things, the ability for such diverse perspectives on the story is what makes it what it is.
please for the love of god get a better mic... like i enjoyed the video otherwise but being able to hear the smack every time you start and stop talking kills the watchability of the video and i had to stop after angrily getting to only 4 minutes in.
Thanks for the feedback, I've been working on it for my more recent videos and I seem to have it mostly fixed.
@@Dekuzek no worries, I totally get really PC upgrades in general being hard these days as I'm still trying to upgrade my PC's fans and motherboard and most of my personal issue mostly just comes from the fact that I have the condition of misophonia which basically just makes any sort of repetitive sounds or eating food type sounds including just the general smack you can hear of the lips at the beginning or stop of a sentence if you listen to the right way or in the right room with the right Echo where without me being able to even stop it really I become incredibly ridiculously angry to the point that I could literally like put my fist through a wall even though normally I like to think I'm probably as quiet and gentle a guy you probably going to find who pretty much never really wants to end up in the middle of more serious or over the top type situations