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I like the similiarities mentioned between Trina, Gloam Eyed Queen and Godwyn. I feel like some people try to connect Miquella, Godwyn, Trina and The Gloam Eyed Queen too much. The similiarities doesn't mean these characters are connected or they are the same people or something like that. I feel like Radagon/Marika connection really opened pandora's box for a lot of people. Miquella tried to give a better life to everyone, tried to bring back Godwyn but had to realize that's not possible within the current order of the world. Trina had to be left behind, because she didn't wanted Miquella's ascension. I find it interesting that the cross before stone coffin fissure cross (in Cerulean Coast) marks Miquella's doubt that he left behind. I feel like the similarities between the Gloam Eyed Queen, St. Trina and Godwyn are all connected by death. The Gloam Eyed Queen had the power of the god-slaying flame, possibly an enforcer of Destined Death (The role that Maliketh took over). Godwyn is the prince of death, born of the corruption and the contradiction of the Golden Order. The forces of nature will take a corruptive form even if they can't be part of the order. We see this with Formless Mother, Frenzied Flame, Scarlet Rot and with death itself through Godwyn's Deathblight. St.Trina I think fits because her stronger power (eternal sleep) is effectively death. Sleep is just death being shy. These concepts are all connected by the motif of still water, foul water, stagnant water. That's why water is such a commonly reoccurring theme in Elden Ring. Tibia Mariners, Godwyn's disfigured body having a fishtail, lake of rot, fissure depths filled with water, Basilisks (avatars of Godwyn) being amphibians...
I love this deep dive into Godwyn. Something I have not heard discussed yet, however, is if there is a connection between Godwyn and the persons/statues in Bonny Village and the Shaman Village with trees growing out of them. Given the dialogue of the Finger Reader in Deeproot Depths, it is alluded that Godwyn, as a Scion of the Golden Bough, was always meant to be a sort of sacrifice to Destined Death. While he died in soul on the Night of the Black Knives, his body was still brought to Deeproot Depths in the hopes that a new, blessed tree would sprout from him. Perhaps, even after the Night of the Black Knives, Godwyn's body lived on in a sort of "Living in Death" manner (whether he was conscious or had agency at this point is interesting to postulate, but entirely unclear). Instead of sprouting a tree, however, Godwyn sprouted Deathroot, in a way extemely visually similar to when the PC dies of Deathblight. We know Deathblight existed before the execution of the dire plot, as evidenced by how it is used by Deathrite Birds. Maybe Godwyn was afflicted with Deathblight before the Night of the Black Knives, as none of Marika's children are exempt from being cursed.
The entire thing u just showed is a symbolism directly correlating to berserk when Griffith sacrifice the band of the hawk do godhood and in Elden ring godwyn was sacrificed to rid them of the godly influence. Both are a landscape of death and destruction in a-seemingly peaceful area. Maybe it’s just be but it all seemed to line up if I’m wrong someone please correct me but it all seems to fit as another nod from miazaki to berserk once more
I always found the most unnerving part of finding Godwyn for the first time is the fact that when you walk into the large obvious arena before him, he's completely deathly still... like normally when you see something that monstrous just waiting for you in a souls game, your first thought is "a boss cutscene is about to play here..." and then... nothing. Fromsoft subverting my expectations like a boss.
mmmm! absolutely, subverting many expectations I think, in genuine use of the word, what huge amount of aura and dominion Godwyn holds despite being only truly in one place. still. unmoving. favourite lore character is definitely him or Radahn imo
If you're wondering why Godwyn's arms are in that position, its because that's the pose he was killed in. You can see it in the intro cinematic, Godwyn being held up by the black knives as they carve the death rune into his back
I've been puzzling over this since release! Yet here you are, and it now seems so obvious! Thanks for this post, this is good for the head-canon. Another thing I note is the pose's similarities to the pose of the Curse Blades in the DLC. I mistook them as being Godwyn-related when Fromsoft released the promo image of a Curseblade warrior. I wonder if it's a coincidence, or is it more than that?
Sure, but he was buried with full honours. Did the officials not bother changing the position of his body to something more dignified? Or was the rigor-mortis so instant that they couldn't? The story trailer shows his arms in a different position lying on the floor anyway.
@@ianwilliams2632 I also thought it could have been a fast setting rigor-mortis but the trailer shows him hitting the floor with an arm forward and the other backward. He was definetly moved. Was he murdered at the castle? The body surgate in the bottom of the castle is close to the position he fell in.
Not a huge discovery by any means, but it occurs to me that Godwyn is part shaman, which might explain why his corpse was able to infiltrate the roots of the Erdtree as well as it has.
At this point you can take this and apply to anyone that came from Marika now. Rykard too probably. It's not because divinity powers, it's because shaman. Shaman shaman shaman.
Godwyn is one of the few things in Miyazaki's games that legitimately terrify me. His design is so otherworldly and foreign, it evokes my fight or flight response lol.
I also have a hard time thinking of a character in FromSoft’s entire catalogue that has suffered a worse fate. Seriously, this is something that should have been reserved for a truly deplorable individual, not for someone whom the lore portrays as tolerant and heroic.
1st time seeing this lad make me scared so much. From a far I only see "something" with scale, and then I get closer and notice that its a giant fish fin and then "what the hell?! Why is it so big? Its a mermaid?!" I was terrified to fight it, its not gallant like Midir or Kalameet, its so disgusting and contorted. Making a u-turn and then gain 5 more level in vigor I was so dissapointed I ended up with Fia gank fight.
Well then you have the right idea. Rogiers death is basically telling us that simply touching godwyn causes deathblight. We dont get affected likely for gameplay reasons like how we can cure scarlet rot but no one else can in-game. Imagine that water in his arena is still-water aka those who know. Btw my proof is his bloodstain u can find in stormveil
Something came to mind when you mentioned 'like a cancer'. I discourage you from doing an image search on what I'm about to say, but there is a type of tumour called teratoma that generates its own hair, teeth and, you guessed it, eyes. It's quite revolting. Addition: people are looking it up anyway and regretting doing so. You have been warned.
That reminds me of what STEM cells do before they become the cells the make up hair, teeth, bone or skin. Maybe his physical body is constantly making these kind of STEM cells just constantly going through a birth (of cells) sorts
I teally wish they had made Godwyn's head and eyes followed you a little bit. His body was still alive after all, just didn't contain a soul. Those who live in death definitely follow your movements, so if Godwyn had done that, he would been far more disturbing.
Godwyn doesn't have a soul yet, but the skeletons you fight do. Their souls have not been processed by the Erdtree, but are instead pushed back into their skeletal bodies. You have to destroy their physical remains somehow to keep them down, because you're leaving the soul without a vessel to animate. Fia is trying to create a powerful soul using the "warmth of champions" in order to give Godwyn's new body a chance at life.
hard disagree. I appreciate the idea, but for me, the complete non-interaction of Godwyn with the player says so much more than it would otherwise. His whole existence(?) is so complex/layered that, combined with his scale and previous FromSoft fiction being so lovecraftian, it makes me feel like it’s definite creative choice to make him/it completely ignorant to the player. Like this thing is so beyond mortal reckoning, assuming it’s even actively conscious, Godwyn couldn’t give a shit about this tiny little being running around down there. That’s far more interesting and disturbing to me, that we’re not even on his radar. He is Godwyn, we are but the buzzing of flies to him. Or alternatively it’s just some great dead thing that’s rotting like dead things do, but it’s a weird cancer that, to our eyes, starts to resemble something vaguely humanoid/fishy. Like seeing Jesus in some toast or whatever.
There is definitely some connection with the purple. Sleeping Fia - Saint Trina - Flower - Poison - Saint Romina of the Bud - Rot - Many unrotted Basilisks in Lake of Rot - Centipede on Romina - Destined Death mark - GEQ
One thing I rarely see talked about is the presence of Godwyn's growth in the environs of Farum Azula. The theory I've maintained is that Farum Azula used to be the brace of the Erdtree while it grew, like Elphael was for the Haligtree. In honoring the alliance between the Golden Lineage and the dragons, a great deal of cultural cross-pollination took place, observable in fighting techniques to the capital's dragon cult. Following Godwyn's assassination, and "ascension" to being the Prince of Death, his corruption then spread to Farum Azula, and in a last-ditch effort to stem the tide, the city was broken free of the Erdtree and held aloft in the vortex created by Placidusax. It was, of course, too little, too late, and the ruins are now infested by skeletal beast-men, and the "uprooted" Wormfaces. The evidence is scattered across the map, pieces of the city that fell to earth in its passage out over open sea. We've all dashed across the remains at one point or other, with barely a thought.
I cant imagine a way that could be possible though given the obviously way older architecture of farum azula. I mean between the end of placidusax's era and the erdtree era two whole eras of the divine tower and the hornsent passed. Given that we know the greater will gave beasts fingers and intelligence, and the beastmen are who built farum azula, we can asume farum azula is nearly as old as Metyr's arrival on the planet, which dates it to WAAAAY before the erdtree.
Perhaps it couldve been the brace of the great tree or something but we dont get much to go on that would indicate that. If anything the great tree seemed to be watched over by the ancestors of the nox since we see that sort of architecture near by. the roots.
@@OfficialChrissums Sure, all of this is fair game, I don't claim to be an authority, esp. on the still kinda fuzzy chronology of some elements. Some things could have happened concurrently, and Godwyn spreading through the Great Tree would shore up the reasoning on why the Crucible became so taboo. Farum Azula just always stood out as an outlier in that process, good brain candy.
I just noticed his eyes look like an eclipse. Specifically his pupils. In normal eyes, you have the iris with a pupil in the middle where the iris ends, but in Godwyn's case, there are white circles around the pupil. Together, the white circle around the pupil gives me an impression of a solar eclipse, with the moon completely covering the sun and just the tiniest outline of the sun peeking from behind the moon.
Same here, there is so much mystery surrounding Godwyn himself both from when he was alive and when he of course was dead. I believe that Godwyn’s Curse might have been much much worse than his brothers Morgott and Mohg, only he just didn’t know that & neither did anyone else, maybe Marika knew, but we can only speculate.
@@jerrym1218 I think he was born without a curse and that's the tragedy of it all. Marika had one child bathed in gold and perfection and they took it from her. Was it fated to turn out this way? I don't know. I feel like what happened to him was a twist of fate. But the magnitude of his curse post-death bespeaks of the power he possessed.
Loved that you mentioned Bloodborne, because since I found Godwyn for the first time, he felt like a Kos/Kosm from Elden Ring. A considered sacred body (Godwyn was curseless, perfect, golden demigod) so abused and explored by others to their own goals, robbing them their agency to death and birthing a curse. Kosm gave us the Orphan, while Godwyn gave us deathblight and the whole TWLID problem. They were both connected to water, with fishy features. Beyond that, their corpses and death are triggering events for tragedies. And as you, I am also pretty obsessed with Godwyn. And how his curse features also remind of Messmer's. Not only the animalistic features (snakes and fish) but eyes and hair growing in weird places (the abyssal serpent carries Messmer's features like basiliks or crabs carry Godwyn's), scales growing in their skin (such as in those eyes you showed or Messmer's own skin after breaking the seal). And what gets me most is the Prince of Death's flames. The flames we see in Eclipse Shotel and wielded by Mausoleum Knights. It's called his flames, as if he could also produce them, like Messmer and Melina.
12:50 There’s a video by DondonRV where he goes over the Design Works of Elden Ring. I can’t speak for his sources but at about (8:16:32) there are slides that confirm it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many things, biggest one being the winds always traveling east making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found. These “winds” conveniently travel towards Farum Azula where the Tornadoes are and this is why damage is always focused on the western facing parts of buildings, gates, walls, etc. Nepheli when she talks about Godrick states “he’s tainted the very winds” because of his grafting and I assume this is why all the exiles wear hoods that cover their faces with even the 1.0 claiming it prevents the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I strongly believe this is why the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction with Stormveil likely meeting the same fate down the road. The Marred Leather Shield of course alludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning wielder, paralleling the firstborn Nameless King figure from Dark Souls 3 in many ways(firstborn son who befriended the dragons and began a cult) and also influenced the storm which is likely what Godwyn is doing in his half-state. This is also why you find so many Godwyn items/monuments near Stormcaller Church Imo. Godrick is stated to “inherit his Great Rune” and my current theory is he grafted a piece of Godwyn and thus allowing him to inherit the Great Rune that was originally intended for him and explain why he’s able to do storm attacks which even Godfrey is unable to.
@@antiburgerlicheaktion3820 I recommend watching Tarnished Archaeologist's video called the great flood, where he explains those structures to likely be molten magma hardened.
I LOVE THIS IDEA I' ve been convinced for quite some time that Godwyn was the original head of Stormveil castle, and it's frequently mentioned in Stormveil-centric item descriptions "a time when the true storm raged"- him having influence over the winds makes so much sense in that regard!
@@zekenelsons2069 There’s something weird going on with the Golden Lineage and why Godrick is reffered as a “runt” even with his demigod status. Also the Banished Knights, Nepheli’s questline, and Kenneth Height all seem to be hinting something about his illegitimacy. I’ve noticed that when you first meet Nepheli she’s standing over one of the banished knights, commenting about their “choice of master”. It brings up questions because the rulers of Stormveil would inevitably be Godfrey’s Golden Lineage after their conquest, but if the seat of the Golden Lineage must also be Stormveil and Godrick is confirmed to be the blood of Godfrey, how could he not be the heir to Stormveil? Kenneth calls Godrick a “usurper “ and constantly raves on about finding a “true and stalwart Lord of the **proper lineage** to take the reins of Limgrave.” There has to be a specific reason he chooses Nepheli and my working theory but is because Nepheli is one of last descendants of the stormhawk clan that built Stormveil, reinforced by her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk”of which lineage is the rightful by which Haight supports her claim to rule Stormveil. It’s very curious that Nepheli also doesn’t help us anywhere else except Godrick and Godfrey - not against any other demigod, or Morgott, or the Fire Giant or even Gideon himself. Why would she appear specifically to kill Hoarah Loux and recognise you as Elden Lord over someone with her surname and, in all honesty, rightful Elden Lord? She seems to be put purposely against Godfreys Golden Lineage which makes me think Godfrey might’ve been the cause of the terrible massacre she described witnessing as a child whilst he was still untamed by Serosh described in the Giant Crusher, “man turned against man”. She gives us the Arsenal Charm which could mean her true ascendant might be the lone revenger of Castle Morne who rode out to fight Godfrey which was likely the Storm Lord after the transition of power between him and Godfrey. The identity of who that is still up in the air but I will say that in all of the Banished Knight armor variations there is ornamentation of dragons most notably on the helm and decorations of thorns on the plate, particularly the gauntlets. These two are both associated with Godwyn judging from him founding the dragon cult and the description of the Marred Leather Shield. Another connection is that the oldest remnants of the Stormveil/Stormclan culture manifest Golden Lightning, such as Commander Niall and the Art of War seen on the Stormhawk Axe used by Nepheli herself which was Godwyns trademark lightning judging from the Death Lightning description. It further connects Godwyn to the storm because the same golden lightning can also be seen in “the heart of the storm”. I think it could be for this reason that in the Duskborn ending, you can see a storm start to weather again because Godwyn has been resurrected kinda similar to how the Weeping Peninsula is always raining too. What currently makes the most sense to me is that Godwyn is the heir of Placidusax and his lightning(red to gold). He began the cult in Farum Azula which is why you find the Prayerbook with the oldest Incantations stating “never reached the Lands Between”.
Considering the color purple is described to be the true color of ghostflame long ago, according to the item description of those purple grave flowers, I have to wonder if the purple around Godwyn's corpse has more to do with that than the purple miasma of St Trinia's sleep (unless there's a parallel to be drawn between sleep & the old system of death). Considering the current color of ghostflame is more of a blue tone, and the color of destined death is red (what Marika removed from the Elden Ring), it makes me wonder if she split the "purple" of death by taking destined death (red) out of the equation, leaving it blue.
Finally, FINALLY, someone who talks about this! The numerous eyes protruding around the Prince of Death's Throne are difficult or nigh impossible to view properly in-game. I'm surprised no one talked about this beforehand, but finally you detailed it, thanks Zayf!
I wonder if the blood-like substance could be fresh root resin. Root resin seems connected by its color to the Crucible, and so does Godwyn's transformation.
Maybe the weirdness with the facial features is explained by how halibut can change their eyes around to lay flat. Since they're going with a fish theme and all.
Trees can get bleeding cankers from mold. These bleeding cankers look very similar to the blood on these trees. This is caused by a particular mold, though. Phytophthora. The interesting thing about this mold is that it very closely resembles fungi. Phytophthora is the most prominent disease in nursery plants in America. It doesn't usually cause the bleeding, though. Just on specific trees. Things usually just...decay
damn, this really evokes eldtritch horror i love it. Makes me think that the ritual performed by ranni was some sort of ancient ritual she rediscovered something that should never have been tampered with.
ranni and godwyn are two halves of the same coin, she lost her body kept a soul, he lost a soul kept a body, as well as her body having the other half of the mark of death.which is probably why she had him killed by the assassins, so that when they got him with the first half she could get herself with the second and escape fate. godwyn was her stepping stone and at some point it will come back to haunt her, with him observing everything. also godwyn hasn't escaped fate, he's alive and therefore bound to the greater will. so he's still an empyrean. unless when he died and came back to life the greater will lost him. which is possible. lastly, noticetheir parallels in other ways, shes the sky and he's the dirt, the water, and the merging with the earth itself. he's part shaman, so he could be merging with the concept of death, which is why he's the death prince, he will become death, and you cant do anything to stop him.
Considering the significance of eyes in Elden Ring, gold signifying the golden lineage, frenzy's many links to eyes with the Shabriri grapes and how many incantations seem cast from the eyes, dragon communion physically making the partaker's eyes draconic to name a few I can think of right now - I doubt it's a coincidence that Godywyn's irises resemble the eclipse
Same, in fact it reminds me of the Caterpillar Mask (Hornsent's mask), the lore of which reads, "Grotesque mask constructed from countless solidified caterpillars. A ritual implement of the greater potentates of Bonny Village. Used to ward off thoughts of impurity, doubt, temptation, and other wickednesses one is vulnerable to while absorbed in divine ritual." Even though it calls them caterpillars, they look almost identical to the maggots on the deathblight roots. It may be a mistranslation, or it may be a clue, or just a thematic parallel, since caterpillars, like maggots, transform into flying creatures too. And we saw in Elphael all of those unhatched cocoons everywhere. Plus you've got Malenia, who becomes a winged butterfly-looking goddess after "hatching" from her rot flower bloom for the third time.
I am of the opinion that they transformed because the Land of Shadows was swamped in kegare thanks to Messmer's crusade. The land is essentially one giant graveyard with piles of corpses in some places where they've been washed down by water or thrown down off of cliffs. The amount of kegare that would have been unleashed with all that death and destruction would have been immense. Sure the Lands Between is also war torn and covered with corpses but hornsent culture was all about being vessels for divinity*. Given that those who carried out the proper rituals for the dead and cared for the sick were not afflicted I feel they were able to cleanse themselves of the kegare they were all stewing in while other hornsent absorbed it into themselves unwittingly by not undergoing those rituals (or by being vessels for other divine power such as the various horned warriors). Once it reached a critical level within them they began to physically change to reflect to reflect what was happening within their souls. *No fly people in the base game but a lot of folks in the Lands Between did succumb to another divine force, the Frenzied Flame, as a result of the endless warring. No matter where you are or what side you belong to war is hell.
@@theghosty99 I want to add a little something extra to your comment. A cocoon completely transforms the cells of the caterpillar into the butterfly, much like how Malenia's(and maybe Millicent's) bloom would've transformed her from an Empyrean God-to-be, to a full God. Thus the battle with a fully divine Malenia would've been such an extreme uphill battle compared to the one the Tarnished fights.
Hi Tarnished homies! I found a bunch of creepy stuff that was staring 👁at me in the face the whole time and thought it would make a good topic for a video given the time of year. I hope you guys enjoy it and have a happy halloween! 🎃- Zayf
The maggot pillars look like fungus gnat larva when they all try and migrate together. Also, I never realized that his eyes looked like a solar eclipse during totality before! Nice video!
ooooh!! i did not notice that the death blight were a combination of flies/maggots until now, made to look like thorny vines but it makes so much more sense now why it is that way and also why the Worm-faces are LIKE THAT. and why they spread death-blight. death and decay were basically forbidden but with Godwyn's attempted (quite literal) treeroot burial and subsequent integration into the root-system, the signifiers of decay became more tree/plant-like
The dreadful Eyes of Death spread disaster across neighboring worlds. Phantoms lured to the host world may end up as victims, allowing the Eyes of Death to multiply, and leading to further proliferation of bane. -Eye of Death Item description, Dark Souls 1
The wormy roots are very similar looking to the hornsent's mask, which is made of "caterpillars" that supposedly ward off impure thoughts, and then of course there are the worm faces, who seem like corrupted potentates or something.
While a smaller creator myself, I've made a bunch of videos about Godwyn as well, noting how his corruption has spread not only to places where Deathroot can be found (such as in Liurnia or Limgrave, and catacombs all over the land), but also as far away as Stormveil Castle, and even infecting a large crab in Liurnia. I have a similar fascination with Godwyn, and this just adds to that. These details are pretty amazing.
Stormveil thorns look a lot like the thorns of Radagon that block the entrance of the Erdtree and I haven't seen anyone talking about the similarities and what it would convey
Not a lot of people notice that but you’re right they’re exactly similar. I’ll admit there’s something weird about out Radagon and Godwyn in how similar they seem to look. I know the timeline implies these two are far apart but I can’t help but feel the line gets blurred with these two for me personally. At first it was simply by the way Radagon looks similar to Godwyn(or what glimpses we see of him). The Stormcaller Church is one of the biggest headscratchers because everything surrounding it is connected to Godwyn(dragon cult items and the monument detailing the routing of the dragons) yet there stands a statue of Radagon. That statue also has golden hair(all of Radagons statues have golden hair I think). The way Radagon and Godwyn are dressed is similar too and halfway into his health bar, Radagon begins to use golden spears in the style of a lightning user which is peculiar since that was Godwyn’s trademark with Golden Lightning. He teleports as lightning, which is what Godwyns knights are able to do(they wear the same sash/skirts) and he uses the Storm Stomp AOW.
@@puzzleheaded6195 Remember though; Radagon _is_ Marika. Anything he's linked to can link to her and vice versa i'd imagine as such. (though i am out of my depth on how it would all connect together. I'm mostly relegated to repeating the knowledge i've picked up.)
@@puzzleheaded6195 You and I seem to theorycraft in similar ways! Maybe Godwyn was an earlier split off from Marika? Maybe in a similar way as how Miquella cast off St. Trina to divest himself of "love," to do what needst be done to bring about the Age he wanted, she also cast off her own best qualities to become Godwyn, so that she could bring about the Shattering. I can't find any transcripts online atm, but I recently discovered that Melina's words from Marika at the Rold lift imply that Marika didn't trust the Greater Will, which makes all the more sense given what we've learned from the DLC re: Metyr. I can very much see Marika having taken up her godhood with the intent of betraying the Greater Will from the very beginning. She puts herself in power, and as an early measure gets rid of every part of herself that could make her doubt or hesitate in what she needed to do- creating the perfect golden child, beloved by all. She removes Death from the Elden Ring and puts it somewhere that she knows it can be stolen, and arranges its theft. Has the only one of her children who could have upheld Order in her absence killed, and in the process ensures that poor, loyal Maliketh will never allow it to be stolen again- making room for the Tarnished to be brought back from their banishment. She casts off whatever part of herself that becomes Radagon (unless he's more of a Sewer Mohg/Margit situation), gives him the Rune with the crosshatch pattern always pictured behind him so that he can seal the Erdtree after her crucifixion, as an added measure to ensure that only the Right™ Tarnished can succeed. (The Right™ Tarnished possibly being specifically a Demigod, as implied by the Mausoleum sounds in the opening, and further supported by "A man cannot kill a God") Somewhere in here is whatever Hewg did to earn her wrath- I saw theorycrafting that he was the one who "leaked" the knowledge of Death's location, which he would obvs have been set up to do. Hewg is imprisoned so that he can create a god-slaying weapon. Our Tarnished makes their way to the Lands Between, uses Hewg's weapon, reclaims Death from Maliketh, slays the god, and now the Lands Between are well and goodly severed from any access to or influence from the Greater Will for a long, long time at the very least. Also somewhere in there is Melina and Messmer, and their respective roles in enacting her vengeance against the Hornsent and ensuring that her chosen Maidenless Tarnished would have a way to get into the Erdtree later. ((obviously this is all theorycrafting for fun, anyone is welcome to pick this apart, just please do so in the spirit of shared enjoyment))
Godwyn is fascinating to me. Not only because of lore, but when I was in Stormveil for the first time a few months ago, I fell down a bit (died of fall dmg) and saw one of Godwyns faces. I was completely shocked. A few weeks later, I went down there again to kill the tree spirit nearby for the last Golden Seed I needed for max flasks, took a look at his face again and began getting really interested. Then I found out about Deeproot Depths, an entire area I completely missed 💀 still don’t know how to trigger Fortissax battle btw haha…
The purple liquid around Godwyn is especially interesting since Those Who Live in Death are more linked to the milky water tainted by corpse-wax. Having the purple of Putrescence around him is an awesome thematic visual.
Thank you for showing all of this so close up! I’ve always wondered about Godwyn and that entire area. Two thoughts came to me while watching: 4:41 - this shot reminded me so much of the versions of the abyssal snake/ Messmer snake transformation that are covered in eyes like this (though different eyes of course) 7:06 - it’s been bugging me for a long time that in BonfireVN’s video of Radagon, he has what at first glance is his long braid, but the texture isn’t hair, it’s shiny and there is a hair texture off to the side that looks braided. I guess you could call the thicker one multiple braids wrapped together, but with that non-hair texture they look more like these caterpillars or tangled intestines.
About the marine-apparance of Godwyn, two are the main point. First, in Elden Ring (And Bloodborne) Spirit, Afterlife and Cosmos are connected to water. (Loretta's ash appear on a giant water-mirror, Ranni's spell of Rennala appear on a giant sea with a moon, Elden Beast on a giant pond, ancient spirits stay in a sort of swamp, etc etc) Godwyn is souless, it's an abomination, alive but no soul, stagnant, and stagnant water turns into a corrupted swamp. Second motive, connected to the first, Miyazaki loves the idea of Marine-Apparance to show a corruption for stagnation. Remember Aldritch from DS3? Depth are a corruption of stagnant Darkness and it generates disgusting insects (All Dark generate insects, but while normal Dark generates Cicadas and Butterfly, the ones we find in the Ringed City, Depth generate Worms, Parasites and Flies, insects considered very bad in Japanese colture), in Depth Cathedral they worship a lake of Darkness, and Aldritch soul talks about Age of Deep Sea. Same concept here. P.s: Fun fact, Sleep and Death a lot of times are considered correlated, like the brothers Hypnos and Thanatos. And, well,Dlc literally Kill us when we sleep,. P.p.s: "Outer Gods are lovecraftian god-aliens!1!1!1" Godwyn here is the most lovecraftian thing. Literally Death can't even save you from a bad respawn.
My working theory was that Godwyn's progressing corruption was due to an outer god seeing a soulless living vessel and being like "it's free real estate," but I actually really, really like this idea of death and water being innately tied.
@@zekenelsons2069 Miyazaki likes to talk about the same themes through games, especially Kegare. Possession by an Outer God is a classic theory, but Outer Gods are avatars of forces of nature, and Deathroot is born very very very very recently with Godwyn's """death""".
The best word to describe Godwyns body and surrounding is mesmerizing. I always leaned towards this kind of places in games, which are fully open to player yet are undeniably mysterious and uncanny.
Fact that goldwyn was the most helpful and kind member of the family, and most sane of all them....but what happened to him is worse than what they suffered from.
Dude I just discovered your channel for the first time. I can't believe the quality of content you have in your videos. This is insane. I binge watched half your videos yesterday, best Tuesday night ever after a long day at work. I subbed. Please keep the content coming :)
Thank you so much bro. The Godwyn's corruption always intrigued me, how can such a beautiful noble man turn into that "thing"??? That is definitely the most disturbing place in Elden Ring in my opinion and no one talks about it. Awesome video
I'm personally of the opinion that Godwyn's face should be viewed "beak down", since that's how it is presented when we find it in Stormveil and the DLC catacombs. That would make a lot more sense than FromSoft deciding to consistently portray him upside-down. It also makes no sense to put his nose on his forehead. I don't know what that thing above his eyes is supposed to be exactly, but I don't think it's a mouth. It looks more like he's growing a third eye, which given that it's a Japanese game might have some symbolic meaning.
My last playthrough I managed to see the big three eye balls for the first time on his throne and it freaked me out. The team reall went all out on his design.
I developed a habit like a few weeks after beating Elden Ring back in January 2023 where I go to the prince of deaths throne site of grace before saving and quitting, because before I hop off for the day I tend to just look in absolute wonder at Godwyns corpse and the surrounding area, I’ve never seen anything like him in any video game before.
One thing that came to mind in this video is "how did Godwyn's corpse get taken there" and I realized it probably passed the seal of the Three Fingers on its way to Deeproot Depths. Leyndell is technically directly connected to that area that way through the Shunning-Grounds. Now the question is: who took him there? Didn't quite get that far. Thanks for this fascinating video though!
The connection between Godwyn and St Trina is Fate. Godwyn was fated to become a Martyr for Destined Death as the Deeproot Death Finger Crone says. He was fated to be the first of the Demigods to die and become the Death Prince. I think this is why he seemingly allowed himself to be killed by the Black Knives without much of a fight. No one anticipated that he would die by this half-death. Those who live in Death exist in a state of eternal life but through their souls animating dead things. St Trina was supposed to be Miquella's fate. She would have been a God capable of spreading her Eternal Sleep throughout the Lands Between essentially granting a form of Eternal Death to anyone that drinks it but without them needing to physically die. This eternal sleep manifests though her directly as her nectar. Nectar is something a flower or tree uses to attract INSECTS to pollinate it. This form of Death would have been perfect for Those Who Live in Death. Many people speculated that Godwyn was Miquella's original consort and that the events at Castle Sol were meant to bring back his "comrade" (Godwyn) so he could fulfill that role. I think this was true in terms of Fate but Miquella and Ranni rejected their fates which resulted in Radahn being the consort and Godwyn being killed in a way that was not intended, leaving him useless as a consort.
I love this idea. Trina would have been the perfect partnership or counter for those who live in death... Those who live in death are often accompanied by swarms of bugs too. None of us wanted to take the spirit at castle sol at his word when he said they failed to return Godwyn with the eclipse. We hoped we would get to see him animated.
I'm still convinced that From intended Godwyn to be the og consort with an eclipse event, but they didn't meet shareholder deadlines, so they scrapped a huge chunk of the lore during development (mainly Miquella's part as Messmer's seems fine - they merged 2 DLCs, keep in mind). So, areas were left unfinished, and enemies got misplaced, so they chose Radahn for the retcon. (E.g. Death Knights get 'rune buffs' like normal enemies do, i.e they weren't meant to be catacomb bosses but common enemies.)
If, as the Telescope's item description might imply, the Elden Ring was restricting fate while intact, then it might not have had any influence over what happened to Godwyn. The premiere trailer similarly notes that the Elden Ring commanded the stars. Nothing implies that Godwyn let himself die either, just that the Black Knife Assassins were highly efficient with their lethal ambush. The Finger Reader at the Deeproot Depths never mentions fate, just that Godwyn becoming undead is a humiliation. Regarding Trina, her nectar only changed to become hazardous after Miquella maimed her and left her to die. Trina's natural state really does just relate to sleep, and her post-injury nectar is very much actually lethal, not figuratively so. While Miquella sought to help Godwyn, nothing suggests he was acting for any reason other than stopping the suffering of those subjected to the Death Blight. The Golden Epitaph was meant to kill Godwyn's body, and when that didn't work, Miquella resorted to reviving the soul instead, hoping that would undo the Death Blight. The Wandering Mausoleums and Lhutel's item description indicate that Godwyn wasn't the only demi-god that people were trying to revive. Also, curiously enough, the Japanese text for Lhutel's item description says that her demi-god was actually revived, though the game shockingly lacks any details on what became of this demi-god afterward.
@@mysterin5061 The Gloam-Eyed Queen apparently predated Miquella's birth, so how would Trina be her? Melina is also Messmer's sister and, like the other children born between Marika and Radagon, has a mystical butterfly associated with her, implying she's not of the golden lineage.
So I’m unsure if I’m remembering it right but I think possibly it could be a homage to the eclipse from guts where the band of hawk is sacrificed. The landscape in there was. Bloody hellish land of death and destruction and if I remember correctly faces and eyes were formed from the landscape similar to the multiple eyes u found scattered about. And it would be a great symbolism as just like in berserk That was a huge turning point in the story just as this place is hugely important to the Elden ring story for multiple character affecting everyone and everything. And also the symbolism of a major sacrifice that alters and changes the world in both stories
So Godwyn is more than the Three Eyed Raven equivalent in ER. The way he spreads his influence kinda acts like mold tbh. It would be interesting if the Basilisks were the result of the Night of Black Knives, seeing that they are capable of materializing when summoned like the one with the Divine Beast in Rauh Ruins, meaning they're closely tied to Deathblight itself.
well when godrick fled the captial w/ marika's veil, who's to say that was the only relic he took? he probably took part of godwyn as a relic and put it in the basement of stormveil
I think there's more links than you might think between Trina and Godwyn and sleep and life in death - remember Godwyn's mental state appears to be a dream state since we enter it, Fia's sleeps along side her companions, Trina's nectar kills us and then provides us with dream messages after we've died, item descriptions seem to evoke the notion of a sweet embrace of death connected to Trina's sleep, and I mean it's literally called eternal sleep, that's literally death xD So yeah, you could probably find alot more connection than just those plus what you highlighted here, it's an interesting point and one I've been wondering about since the DLC came out.
That might actually just be Fia's dream instead, especially since Godwyn's body is visible in it. There's some additional dimension at work though, since Fortissax is there and nothing implies he's already been killed in the way that would create a Remembrance in the Lands Between. As for Trina, her nectar only seemed to become that way after she was maimed and left to die by Miquella.
"I'm kind of obsessed with Godwyn" I don't need to hear more *instant subscribe* No but in all seriousness, I was so happy to see that I'm not the only one and I discovered your channel through your previous Godwyn lore video which a certain famous fromsoft lore channel never did (for some strange reason since Godwyn is so fascinating???) - so I appreciate you all the more and instantly. And to be further more honest, you have a soothing, narrating voice that makes me want to borrow close and listen.
Its crazy we all have an insane amount of time in this game and we're still learning new things about it years later. I started to realize what he meant immediately when he said he doesnt think his team can ever out do what they did in terms of scope and detail with elden ring. Masterpiece! Cant wait to see where the lore is in 10 years
I think listening to this brought to fruition an idea I have been mulling over. What does it mean that Godwyn is the inverse of Ranni, whose body is dead but soul is alive? Logically this can be expressed as body alive but soul dead. Okay, what does soul death mean when we can plainly see Godwyn definitely has some kind of influence and goals? My thoughts have always been it doesn't mean his soul is destroyed but just marked as no longer among the living. No longer welcome in the realms of the living and should go on to where the dead wait for their next life. But there is a problem with this. By no fault of his own he has something that anchors him to the land of rhe living. His god flesh. How torturous this must be. No wonder he can understand those who Live Within Death and their desperation to continue the life they had before death instead of moving on to a new life. So cursed to be chained to flesh he cannot use what does he use to enforce his will? The rotten, corrupted tree roots that have been bound to his useless flesh. His corruption being what his true body is now.
The thing about the stormveil damage and "thorns" is that they are all mostly located on the exterior, and are obviously damage origonating from some sort of attack, like a magical seige weapon was used, each spot has a crater like shape, and the patterns of placement imply grouped attacks.
I think it is important to mention that Godwyn and Stormveil / Mountaintops, is the motif of thorns from Shadow of the Erdtree, being a symbol of darkness that grows from suppressing the truth. Godwyn, Marika, and the blood star are all emblematic of violent suppression of the unwanted; Godwyn himself being a manifestation of Marika's curse, like her other children. I think this was Godwyn's fate, Princess Ranni just happened to be in the right position to carry it out. That invites further questions about the cosmos, starlight, and Ranni's place in the greater cosmic plan that not even she can control.
Theres a heavy connection between eyes and the deathroot, obviously. But more like the eyes are the source of the deathroot. If pieces of Godwyn were taken to where each of the cadavers are found, then the reason they don't have deathroot surrounding them is because they dont have the eyes. Gurranq gives the tarnished a "Beast Eye" that trembles when they get near deathroot. In the story trailer, there is a whole shot that focuses on Godwyn's eyes after his soul is killed. The basilisks that spew death blight have large false eyes that resemble Godwyn's. I think the reason eyes were chosen to be the symbol of deathblight is because of the saying "eyes are the window to the soul" and Gowyns kinda doesnt have one anymore. His eyes are a window directly into a void. Given, this doesnt explain everything, such as why the wormfaces can spew deathblight. But one thing I noticed thanks to this video is that the wormface's worms look a lot like the "worms" that make up the deathroot branches. And in the story trailer, you can see a bunch of worms or maggots moving under Godwyn's skin towards his eyes. Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Feel free to talk about them if you want. or let me know if the whole community already knows this as I am new to the Elden Ring scene.
The Deathroot branches are made of Basilisk. It's where they come from. Destined Death, and therefore Deathblight, was once a part of the Erdtree and Elden Ring. Then it was removed. Then, Godwyn was implanted into the Erdtree. Deathblight existed before Godwyn. That's why it's everywhere, especially in places it makes no sense for it to be if Godwyn was the source. But the other aspects of the Erdtree are still affected by Deathblight and vice versa, so with Godwyn being a part of the Erdtree now he also affects it.
This is great, thank you. Not only does it add to the visual gravity of those environments. But for some reason I never connected Godwyn and the GEQ via their association with death. It's interesting to consider the scattered remnants of death as mirroring marika's own ultimate shattering. A sort of curse for having repressed death. Or at least irony in marika's rise over the GEQ only to be suppressed by death in the end. 🎉
This is why there needs to be at least one more Elden Ring DLC. What's happening with Godwyn deserves to be explored fully, and with your discovery about what the "roots" are actually made of, it would be a great tie-in to the fly people from the SotET DLC.
THANK YOU for pointing out that the thorny roots in the stormveil castle have NOTHING TO DO with Godwyn's cadaver!!! They are so obviously distinct and I'm so tired of people saying "they both look like tree roots and have something sticking out of them, they're the same" NO THEY NOT
I’d say the reason why so many details were high out of view was just in case they wanted to put additional levels into the area. Easier to prepare for it as a precaution than sloppily adding it later.
The link to st. Trina is probably stronger too considering the lore behind miquella’s love for Godwyn. It would make sense that miquella/st.Trina would put godwyn’s body to sleep, which is furthered by the fact that we fight a boss in Godwyn’s dream.
Wait! the observation of the purple waters may possibly have another explanation as well, now that you mentioned it of course there is the visual connection between the deep purple color, putrescence, and st. trina but that may also work the other way around. the water close to godwyn is purple but not white like the white corpsewax waters beneath the plateau. maybe, just maybe, the purple waters aren't there because godwyn is putrefying but because Trina was there at some point. Miquella was trying to give his brother a "true death" but nothing he did could accomplish that. so miquella's other half did all SHE could in order to bring death to godwyn. she put him into a deep velvet sleep that he would not wake from. the waters turning a deep purple in the process as we see in the Garden of Deep Purple. and she put in place a guardian dragon to his dreams, so that none may wake godwyn from his slumber. this was the closest they could get to giving godwyn "death" - to put him into a death-like deep sleep. until that is, a certain deathbed companion lay with him, gave another the means to slay godwyn's dream, wake him from his deathly slumber to rise as the first of the dead if the mending rune of death was to be incorporated into the elden ring.
I like the idea that the reason Godwyn’s body doesn’t move despite still being alive is due to whatever life is in Godwyn’s body moved into the tree and is looking out through it’s many eyes, as if Godwyn has become some kind of death tree entity the size of the entire lands between, and perhaps it’s emissaries are the Basilisks.
I love the notion that Zayf is just flyin around The Deeproot Depths SCOURING for information because his neurons won’t let him leave without an answer 😂😂😂 my boy hit the night vision, he hit the Lorax, and he hit the SoulsTuber all in one video
Hm...I think the reason so many of these details aren't visible is maybe because the team designed Godwyn's corpse before they figured out how big they wanted to make him or where exactly he'd be placed. So they might've made the whole model and adjusted the size and shading after the fact.
The thing I do t understand is how his body is so incredibly huge, in the cinematic it shows that he’s about the size of the black knife assassins which is about the size of the tarnished
I think I remember seeing an older version of the game's script that had a very different explanation as to why Godwyn was down there. Originally, Godwyn was born afflicted with a curse, just like Miquella and Melania are. He didn't become the Prince of Death because his death caused the spread of Deathblight. He was always born with it, so he was born the Prince of Death. This is why that area is referred to as his throne. He was placed there on purpose by someone to spread the blight all over the Lands Between. I'm guessing it was changed because maybe it would have over complicated parts of the lore, but it is very interesting none the less.
10:40 Is it me or do these eyes resemble buds? Its like they wilted away before they even had the chance to blossom. They also look like weird fruits. Considering the role of eyes in the game as windows to runes, maybe these are pockets of Godwyn's new runes that accumulate within the corrupted bark. And here we thought how Miquella came up with the idea of planting himself into a tree. There you go. Been staring at his dead brother for too long
Godwyn's eye sockets remind me of what we saw the golden threads being pulled out of in the DLC trailer. Eyes are the windows of the soul so it makes sense that it would be an eye of some kind.
Is it my imagination or does some of the bark at 4:23 look like smaller, closed eyelids? This whole video is nasty af and makes me more sure than ever that Frenzied Flame is the best ending.
Gloam-Eyed Queen, a character mentioned in various lore items as the mother of the Godskin Apostles and a former empyrean. There's a lot of speculation around her.
I've just realized something. Eyes are very important design elements of the demigods. His eyes are a depiction of an eclipse. And also bear similarity to the "hole" iconography of the Greater Will.
I know im a few months late but, something ive noticed about Godwyn's design is that the clam like growth that is his "face." Looks like it clamps over his true head, his thick blonde hair comes drom between and over the two growths from Godwyn's neck and "face." Like the face is consuming his true human skull. Kinda like how cancerous tumors above the skin can begin to grow themselves over someone's body. Looking at refrences of Teratomas that entirely cover peoples faces reminds me a lot of how godwyn's "face" looks. Wether it be godwyn himself projecting his new face and identity as the prince of death onto his body, or complete corruption from the outer god of death is up to an interpretor. Godwyn's eyes were never that large before his death, so the face that grows over his true head is not his true skull and face. Even if it copies the features of godwyn, it is very clearly enveloping everything that he once was in a visual message that to me, communicates complete and total consumption and corruption. Almost near possessiveness. Many gods in elden ring have their powers conveyed as blights and diseases, the scarlet rot being a magical parasitic superfungus that mutates bodies , death blight being a cancer that spreads through consumption or contact that also mutates bodies, and the maddening sickness which spreads to others psychologically with limited affects on the body compared to the other two. All three share the theme that these powers completely destroy who a person is, turning them into something unrecognizable. Destroying the person's image to imitate the god that was responsible for the corruption. A god of death using godwyn's body to create its own image out of his unmoving body is not very far fetched to think about. Many people came to free godwyn from the corruption, including the dragon he befriended, but failed to kill him, and as a result got consumed themselves. Safe to say the symbolism of Godwyn's corpse tells us that the Godwyn known to the world is long gone, twisted and malformed and puppeteered by forces beyond himself, wether he is accepting of the fate he has or not. In my own perception and judgement of Godwyn, the Godwyn before his death, the empathetic and compassionate Godwyn, who gave care to even the most repulsive beings, deliver him a true death, he deserves far more than to be a puppet and a cancer of an outer god.
Godwins presence in the realm of shadow could possibly upend our timelines. If Godwin was placed at the base of the erdtree before Marika invaded the land of shadow, then it would make sense why he's there twice. OR he could simply pierce the veil.
Its definitely not blood on the tree unless the wounds from Godwyn are fresh and I am fairly confident they are not. Blood doesn't just stay red, when its fresh it appears as red but the longer it sits in open air the more its appearance will blacken and eventually look more like tar then blood if it continues to fester and not dry out. More then Likely it is the tree resin we find and use to make the different greases as the color on the tree closely resembles that of the resin. Edit: 7:18 the maggots look a lot like the thing that is wrapping around the statue of the two figures in Enir-Ilim, perhaps this was how Radagon and Merika were joined together, but I'm just speculating at this point.
Something everyone misses is that you get that death light resistance talisman under Stormveil next to the Godwyn body, perhaps theres away to stop its spread before it begins?
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Could Godwyn get a DLC?
I like the similiarities mentioned between Trina, Gloam Eyed Queen and Godwyn. I feel like some people try to connect Miquella, Godwyn, Trina and The Gloam Eyed Queen too much. The similiarities doesn't mean these characters are connected or they are the same people or something like that. I feel like Radagon/Marika connection really opened pandora's box for a lot of people.
Miquella tried to give a better life to everyone, tried to bring back Godwyn but had to realize that's not possible within the current order of the world.
Trina had to be left behind, because she didn't wanted Miquella's ascension. I find it interesting that the cross before stone coffin fissure cross (in Cerulean Coast) marks Miquella's doubt that he left behind.
I feel like the similarities between the Gloam Eyed Queen, St. Trina and Godwyn are all connected by death.
The Gloam Eyed Queen had the power of the god-slaying flame, possibly an enforcer of Destined Death (The role that Maliketh took over).
Godwyn is the prince of death, born of the corruption and the contradiction of the Golden Order. The forces of nature will take a corruptive form even if they can't be part of the order. We see this with Formless Mother, Frenzied Flame, Scarlet Rot and with death itself through Godwyn's Deathblight.
St.Trina I think fits because her stronger power (eternal sleep) is effectively death. Sleep is just death being shy.
These concepts are all connected by the motif of still water, foul water, stagnant water. That's why water is such a commonly reoccurring theme in Elden Ring. Tibia Mariners, Godwyn's disfigured body having a fishtail, lake of rot, fissure depths filled with water, Basilisks (avatars of Godwyn) being amphibians...
The thumbnail is actively causing me to not want to watch the video, but interest outs.
I love this deep dive into Godwyn. Something I have not heard discussed yet, however, is if there is a connection between Godwyn and the persons/statues in Bonny Village and the Shaman Village with trees growing out of them. Given the dialogue of the Finger Reader in Deeproot Depths, it is alluded that Godwyn, as a Scion of the Golden Bough, was always meant to be a sort of sacrifice to Destined Death. While he died in soul on the Night of the Black Knives, his body was still brought to Deeproot Depths in the hopes that a new, blessed tree would sprout from him. Perhaps, even after the Night of the Black Knives, Godwyn's body lived on in a sort of "Living in Death" manner (whether he was conscious or had agency at this point is interesting to postulate, but entirely unclear). Instead of sprouting a tree, however, Godwyn sprouted Deathroot, in a way extemely visually similar to when the PC dies of Deathblight. We know Deathblight existed before the execution of the dire plot, as evidenced by how it is used by Deathrite Birds. Maybe Godwyn was afflicted with Deathblight before the Night of the Black Knives, as none of Marika's children are exempt from being cursed.
The entire thing u just showed is a symbolism directly correlating to berserk when Griffith sacrifice the band of the hawk do godhood and in Elden ring godwyn was sacrificed to rid them of the godly influence. Both are a landscape of death and destruction in a-seemingly peaceful area. Maybe it’s just be but it all seemed to line up if I’m wrong someone please correct me but it all seems to fit as another nod from miazaki to berserk once more
I always found the most unnerving part of finding Godwyn for the first time is the fact that when you walk into the large obvious arena before him, he's completely deathly still... like normally when you see something that monstrous just waiting for you in a souls game, your first thought is "a boss cutscene is about to play here..." and then... nothing.
Fromsoft subverting my expectations like a boss.
*cough* *cough* Vendrick *cough*
mmmm! absolutely, subverting many expectations I think, in genuine use of the word, what huge amount of aura and dominion Godwyn holds despite being only truly in one place. still. unmoving. favourite lore character is definitely him or Radahn imo
Similar to the giant skeleton on a throne in Nox Stella.. buffed up and everything just for nothing to happen lol
If you're wondering why Godwyn's arms are in that position, its because that's the pose he was killed in. You can see it in the intro cinematic, Godwyn being held up by the black knives as they carve the death rune into his back
I've been puzzling over this since release! Yet here you are, and it now seems so obvious! Thanks for this post, this is good for the head-canon.
Another thing I note is the pose's similarities to the pose of the Curse Blades in the DLC. I mistook them as being Godwyn-related when Fromsoft released the promo image of a Curseblade warrior. I wonder if it's a coincidence, or is it more than that?
Sure, but he was buried with full honours. Did the officials not bother changing the position of his body to something more dignified? Or was the rigor-mortis so instant that they couldn't? The story trailer shows his arms in a different position lying on the floor anyway.
@@ianwilliams2632 Its probably just symbolic, I don't think his real body was stuck in that position
@@Sprech41yeah in the intro when his eye opens you can tell he fell to the floor so you are correct
@@ianwilliams2632 I also thought it could have been a fast setting rigor-mortis but the trailer shows him hitting the floor with an arm forward and the other backward. He was definetly moved. Was he murdered at the castle? The body surgate in the bottom of the castle is close to the position he fell in.
Not a huge discovery by any means, but it occurs to me that Godwyn is part shaman, which might explain why his corpse was able to infiltrate the roots of the Erdtree as well as it has.
ooh never thought of that, good shout!
It may not be huge but that's good thinking regardless.
At this point you can take this and apply to anyone that came from Marika now. Rykard too probably. It's not because divinity powers, it's because shaman. Shaman shaman shaman.
Ohh cuz if grafting!
@@Bthakilla4rillayeah Elden Ring really doesn’t make sense
Godwyn is one of the few things in Miyazaki's games that legitimately terrify me. His design is so otherworldly and foreign, it evokes my fight or flight response lol.
I also have a hard time thinking of a character in FromSoft’s entire catalogue that has suffered a worse fate. Seriously, this is something that should have been reserved for a truly deplorable individual, not for someone whom the lore portrays as tolerant and heroic.
@@kode-man23 For real, Dung Eater is the one who deserved this not Godwyn :(
1st time seeing this lad make me scared so much. From a far I only see "something" with scale, and then I get closer and notice that its a giant fish fin and then "what the hell?! Why is it so big? Its a mermaid?!" I was terrified to fight it, its not gallant like Midir or Kalameet, its so disgusting and contorted. Making a u-turn and then gain 5 more level in vigor I was so dissapointed I ended up with Fia gank fight.
@@nectarnut9262 God, you're spot on. That guy STINKS.
Well then you have the right idea. Rogiers death is basically telling us that simply touching godwyn causes deathblight. We dont get affected likely for gameplay reasons like how we can cure scarlet rot but no one else can in-game. Imagine that water in his arena is still-water aka those who know. Btw my proof is his bloodstain u can find in stormveil
Something came to mind when you mentioned 'like a cancer'. I discourage you from doing an image search on what I'm about to say, but there is a type of tumour called teratoma that generates its own hair, teeth and, you guessed it, eyes. It's quite revolting.
Addition: people are looking it up anyway and regretting doing so. You have been warned.
*Aggressive typing noises*
My schoolmate had his "undeveloped twin's" bonefragments and hair in his lung.
I hate that I just for some unknown reason I just know what that is.
That reminds me of what STEM cells do before they become the cells the make up hair, teeth, bone or skin. Maybe his physical body is constantly making these kind of STEM cells just constantly going through a birth (of cells) sorts
Welp... I regret reading this while eating.
I teally wish they had made Godwyn's head and eyes followed you a little bit. His body was still alive after all, just didn't contain a soul. Those who live in death definitely follow your movements, so if Godwyn had done that, he would been far more disturbing.
Godwyn doesn't have a soul yet, but the skeletons you fight do. Their souls have not been processed by the Erdtree, but are instead pushed back into their skeletal bodies. You have to destroy their physical remains somehow to keep them down, because you're leaving the soul without a vessel to animate. Fia is trying to create a powerful soul using the "warmth of champions" in order to give Godwyn's new body a chance at life.
hard disagree. I appreciate the idea, but for me, the complete non-interaction of Godwyn with the player says so much more than it would otherwise. His whole existence(?) is so complex/layered that, combined with his scale and previous FromSoft fiction being so lovecraftian, it makes me feel like it’s definite creative choice to make him/it completely ignorant to the player. Like this thing is so beyond mortal reckoning, assuming it’s even actively conscious, Godwyn couldn’t give a shit about this tiny little being running around down there. That’s far more interesting and disturbing to me, that we’re not even on his radar. He is Godwyn, we are but the buzzing of flies to him.
Or alternatively it’s just some great dead thing that’s rotting like dead things do, but it’s a weird cancer that, to our eyes, starts to resemble something vaguely humanoid/fishy. Like seeing Jesus in some toast or whatever.
He kind of does. If you try to hurt fia or him after she gives you the rune, you'll get attacked
You do not know better than Fromsoft.
@@GODZILLAmonsoon He attacks you if you attack Fia. I mean.. it's a small weenery attack, but still.
There is definitely some connection with the purple. Sleeping Fia - Saint Trina - Flower - Poison - Saint Romina of the Bud - Rot - Many unrotted Basilisks in Lake of Rot - Centipede on Romina - Destined Death mark - GEQ
Gravity and Sleep Spells also use Purple Color
the tibia mariners float in the purple waters
One thing I rarely see talked about is the presence of Godwyn's growth in the environs of Farum Azula.
The theory I've maintained is that Farum Azula used to be the brace of the Erdtree while it grew, like Elphael was for the Haligtree.
In honoring the alliance between the Golden Lineage and the dragons, a great deal of cultural cross-pollination took place, observable in fighting techniques to the capital's dragon cult.
Following Godwyn's assassination, and "ascension" to being the Prince of Death, his corruption then spread to Farum Azula, and in a last-ditch effort to stem the tide, the city was broken free of the Erdtree and held aloft in the vortex created by Placidusax. It was, of course, too little, too late, and the ruins are now infested by skeletal beast-men, and the "uprooted" Wormfaces. The evidence is scattered across the map, pieces of the city that fell to earth in its passage out over open sea. We've all dashed across the remains at one point or other, with barely a thought.
I cant imagine a way that could be possible though given the obviously way older architecture of farum azula. I mean between the end of placidusax's era and the erdtree era two whole eras of the divine tower and the hornsent passed. Given that we know the greater will gave beasts fingers and intelligence, and the beastmen are who built farum azula, we can asume farum azula is nearly as old as Metyr's arrival on the planet, which dates it to WAAAAY before the erdtree.
Perhaps it couldve been the brace of the great tree or something but we dont get much to go on that would indicate that. If anything the great tree seemed to be watched over by the ancestors of the nox since we see that sort of architecture near by. the roots.
@@OfficialChrissums Sure, all of this is fair game, I don't claim to be an authority, esp. on the still kinda fuzzy chronology of some elements. Some things could have happened concurrently, and Godwyn spreading through the Great Tree would shore up the reasoning on why the Crucible became so taboo. Farum Azula just always stood out as an outlier in that process, good brain candy.
Deathblight existed before Godwyn.
@@OG-ColorfulAbyss. OK, say more about that.
I just noticed his eyes look like an eclipse. Specifically his pupils. In normal eyes, you have the iris with a pupil in the middle where the iris ends, but in Godwyn's case, there are white circles around the pupil. Together, the white circle around the pupil gives me an impression of a solar eclipse, with the moon completely covering the sun and just the tiniest outline of the sun peeking from behind the moon.
Makes perfect sense, what with Miquella trying to bring about the eclipse at Sol, in some way related to giving Godwyn a true death.
Been obsessed with Godwyn since Elden ring came out
Same here. I really wish we got more of him expanded upon in the DLC.
@@redpandarampage2191 fr hope we got more in the future
Same here, there is so much mystery surrounding Godwyn himself both from when he was alive and when he of course was dead.
I believe that Godwyn’s Curse might have been much much worse than his brothers Morgott and Mohg, only he just didn’t know that & neither did anyone else, maybe Marika knew, but we can only speculate.
Me too! I wish we had more lore :')
@@jerrym1218 I think he was born without a curse and that's the tragedy of it all. Marika had one child bathed in gold and perfection and they took it from her.
Was it fated to turn out this way? I don't know. I feel like what happened to him was a twist of fate. But the magnitude of his curse post-death bespeaks of the power he possessed.
Loved that you mentioned Bloodborne, because since I found Godwyn for the first time, he felt like a Kos/Kosm from Elden Ring. A considered sacred body (Godwyn was curseless, perfect, golden demigod) so abused and explored by others to their own goals, robbing them their agency to death and birthing a curse. Kosm gave us the Orphan, while Godwyn gave us deathblight and the whole TWLID problem. They were both connected to water, with fishy features. Beyond that, their corpses and death are triggering events for tragedies.
And as you, I am also pretty obsessed with Godwyn. And how his curse features also remind of Messmer's. Not only the animalistic features (snakes and fish) but eyes and hair growing in weird places (the abyssal serpent carries Messmer's features like basiliks or crabs carry Godwyn's), scales growing in their skin (such as in those eyes you showed or Messmer's own skin after breaking the seal). And what gets me most is the Prince of Death's flames. The flames we see in Eclipse Shotel and wielded by Mausoleum Knights. It's called his flames, as if he could also produce them, like Messmer and Melina.
12:50 There’s a video by DondonRV where he goes over the Design Works of Elden Ring. I can’t speak for his sources but at about (8:16:32) there are slides that confirm it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many things, biggest one being the winds always traveling east making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found. These “winds” conveniently travel towards Farum Azula where the Tornadoes are and this is why damage is always focused on the western facing parts of buildings, gates, walls, etc. Nepheli when she talks about Godrick states “he’s tainted the very winds” because of his grafting and I assume this is why all the exiles wear hoods that cover their faces with even the 1.0 claiming it prevents the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I strongly believe this is why the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction with Stormveil likely meeting the same fate down the road.
The Marred Leather Shield of course alludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning wielder, paralleling the firstborn Nameless King figure from Dark Souls 3 in many ways(firstborn son who befriended the dragons and began a cult) and also influenced the storm which is likely what Godwyn is doing in his half-state. This is also why you find so many Godwyn items/monuments near Stormcaller Church Imo. Godrick is stated to “inherit his Great Rune” and my current theory is he grafted a piece of Godwyn and thus allowing him to inherit the Great Rune that was originally intended for him and explain why he’s able to do storm attacks which even Godfrey is unable to.
I guess this would also explain how deathroot ended up in Farmu Azula
Omg that explains the structures on all the divine towers
@@antiburgerlicheaktion3820 I recommend watching Tarnished Archaeologist's video called the great flood, where he explains those structures to likely be molten magma hardened.
I LOVE THIS IDEA
I' ve been convinced for quite some time that Godwyn was the original head of Stormveil castle, and it's frequently mentioned in Stormveil-centric item descriptions "a time when the true storm raged"- him having influence over the winds makes so much sense in that regard!
@@zekenelsons2069 There’s something weird going on with the Golden Lineage and why Godrick is reffered as a “runt” even with his demigod status. Also the Banished Knights, Nepheli’s questline, and Kenneth Height all seem to be hinting something about his illegitimacy. I’ve noticed that when you first meet Nepheli she’s standing over one of the banished knights, commenting about their “choice of master”. It brings up questions because the rulers of Stormveil would inevitably be Godfrey’s Golden Lineage after their conquest, but if the seat of the Golden Lineage must also be Stormveil and Godrick is confirmed to be the blood of Godfrey, how could he not be the heir to Stormveil? Kenneth calls Godrick a “usurper “ and constantly raves on about finding a “true and stalwart Lord of the **proper lineage** to take the reins of Limgrave.” There has to be a specific reason he chooses Nepheli and my working theory but is because Nepheli is one of last descendants of the stormhawk clan that built Stormveil, reinforced by her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk”of which lineage is the rightful by which Haight supports her claim to rule Stormveil. It’s very curious that Nepheli also doesn’t help us anywhere else except Godrick and Godfrey - not against any other demigod, or Morgott, or the Fire Giant or even Gideon himself. Why would she appear specifically to kill Hoarah Loux and recognise you as Elden Lord over someone with her surname and, in all honesty, rightful Elden Lord? She seems to be put purposely against Godfreys Golden Lineage which makes me think Godfrey might’ve been the cause of the terrible massacre she described witnessing as a child whilst he was still untamed by Serosh described in the Giant Crusher, “man turned against man”. She gives us the Arsenal Charm which could mean her true ascendant might be the lone revenger of Castle Morne who rode out to fight Godfrey which was likely the Storm Lord after the transition of power between him and Godfrey. The identity of who that is still up in the air but I will say that in all of the Banished Knight armor variations there is ornamentation of dragons most notably on the helm and decorations of thorns on the plate, particularly the gauntlets. These two are both associated with Godwyn judging from him founding the dragon cult and the description of the Marred Leather Shield. Another connection is that the oldest remnants of the Stormveil/Stormclan culture manifest Golden Lightning, such as Commander Niall and the Art of War seen on the Stormhawk Axe used by Nepheli herself which was Godwyns trademark lightning judging from the Death Lightning description. It further connects Godwyn to the storm because the same golden lightning can also be seen in “the heart of the storm”. I think it could be for this reason that in the Duskborn ending, you can see a storm start to weather again because Godwyn has been resurrected kinda similar to how the Weeping Peninsula is always raining too. What currently makes the most sense to me is that Godwyn is the heir of Placidusax and his lightning(red to gold). He began the cult in Farum Azula which is why you find the Prayerbook with the oldest Incantations stating “never reached the Lands Between”.
Considering the color purple is described to be the true color of ghostflame long ago, according to the item description of those purple grave flowers, I have to wonder if the purple around Godwyn's corpse has more to do with that than the purple miasma of St Trinia's sleep (unless there's a parallel to be drawn between sleep & the old system of death). Considering the current color of ghostflame is more of a blue tone, and the color of destined death is red (what Marika removed from the Elden Ring), it makes me wonder if she split the "purple" of death by taking destined death (red) out of the equation, leaving it blue.
In a world where nobody can die, permanent sleep is the closest thing to a true death one could hope for.
Sleep is the cousin of death phrase fits here
YOU MIGHT BE ONTO SOME 99 INSIGHT TYPE LORE. AS YOU MAY KNOW COLORS PLAY A ROLE IN EVERYTHING IN ELDEN RING SECRETLY
Finally, FINALLY, someone who talks about this! The numerous eyes protruding around the Prince of Death's Throne are difficult or nigh impossible to view properly in-game. I'm surprised no one talked about this beforehand, but finally you detailed it, thanks Zayf!
Thank you for the kind words SirAshford!
@@ZayftheScholarhow about doing a bloodborne lore vid😮🎉
I wonder if the blood-like substance could be fresh root resin. Root resin seems connected by its color to the Crucible, and so does Godwyn's transformation.
I think the root resin is just corpse wax that has been processed by the root system so it makes alot of sense that it would appear there
Maybe the weirdness with the facial features is explained by how halibut can change their eyes around to lay flat. Since they're going with a fish theme and all.
Oh, great point!!!
Trees can get bleeding cankers from mold. These bleeding cankers look very similar to the blood on these trees.
This is caused by a particular mold, though. Phytophthora. The interesting thing about this mold is that it very closely resembles fungi. Phytophthora is the most prominent disease in nursery plants in America.
It doesn't usually cause the bleeding, though. Just on specific trees. Things usually just...decay
damn, this really evokes eldtritch horror i love it.
Makes me think that the ritual performed by ranni was some sort of ancient ritual she rediscovered something that should never have been tampered with.
agree. I'm a sucker for eldritch horror and this scratches all the right itches. Thanks for the nice comment!
ranni and godwyn are two halves of the same coin, she lost her body kept a soul, he lost a soul kept a body, as well as her body having the other half of the mark of death.which is probably why she had him killed by the assassins, so that when they got him with the first half she could get herself with the second and escape fate. godwyn was her stepping stone and at some point it will come back to haunt her, with him observing everything. also godwyn hasn't escaped fate, he's alive and therefore bound to the greater will. so he's still an empyrean. unless when he died and came back to life the greater will lost him. which is possible. lastly, noticetheir parallels in other ways, shes the sky and he's the dirt, the water, and the merging with the earth itself. he's part shaman, so he could be merging with the concept of death, which is why he's the death prince, he will become death, and you cant do anything to stop him.
Considering the significance of eyes in Elden Ring, gold signifying the golden lineage, frenzy's many links to eyes with the Shabriri grapes and how many incantations seem cast from the eyes, dragon communion physically making the partaker's eyes draconic to name a few I can think of right now - I doubt it's a coincidence that Godywyn's irises resemble the eclipse
Godwyn is great material for future ER games.
the deathroots being maggots reminds me of the fly plague of the hornsent. did the hornsent find a similar glitch regarding death?
a great observation that I didn't think of! 🪰
Same, in fact it reminds me of the Caterpillar Mask (Hornsent's mask), the lore of which reads, "Grotesque mask constructed from countless solidified caterpillars. A ritual implement of the greater potentates of Bonny Village. Used to ward off thoughts of impurity, doubt, temptation, and other wickednesses one is vulnerable to while absorbed in divine ritual." Even though it calls them caterpillars, they look almost identical to the maggots on the deathblight roots.
It may be a mistranslation, or it may be a clue, or just a thematic parallel, since caterpillars, like maggots, transform into flying creatures too. And we saw in Elphael all of those unhatched cocoons everywhere. Plus you've got Malenia, who becomes a winged butterfly-looking goddess after "hatching" from her rot flower bloom for the third time.
I am of the opinion that they transformed because the Land of Shadows was swamped in kegare thanks to Messmer's crusade. The land is essentially one giant graveyard with piles of corpses in some places where they've been washed down by water or thrown down off of cliffs. The amount of kegare that would have been unleashed with all that death and destruction would have been immense. Sure the Lands Between is also war torn and covered with corpses but hornsent culture was all about being vessels for divinity*. Given that those who carried out the proper rituals for the dead and cared for the sick were not afflicted I feel they were able to cleanse themselves of the kegare they were all stewing in while other hornsent absorbed it into themselves unwittingly by not undergoing those rituals (or by being vessels for other divine power such as the various horned warriors). Once it reached a critical level within them they began to physically change to reflect to reflect what was happening within their souls.
*No fly people in the base game but a lot of folks in the Lands Between did succumb to another divine force, the Frenzied Flame, as a result of the endless warring. No matter where you are or what side you belong to war is hell.
@@theghosty99 I want to add a little something extra to your comment. A cocoon completely transforms the cells of the caterpillar into the butterfly, much like how Malenia's(and maybe Millicent's) bloom would've transformed her from an Empyrean God-to-be, to a full God. Thus the battle with a fully divine Malenia would've been such an extreme uphill battle compared to the one the Tarnished fights.
"you can really appreciate how girthy they are once my tarnished is placed nearby"
love it
Hi Tarnished homies!
I found a bunch of creepy stuff that was staring 👁at me in the face the whole time and thought it would make a good topic for a video given the time of year. I hope you guys enjoy it and have a happy halloween! 🎃- Zayf
The maggot pillars look like fungus gnat larva when they all try and migrate together. Also, I never realized that his eyes looked like a solar eclipse during totality before! Nice video!
ooooh!! i did not notice that the death blight were a combination of flies/maggots until now, made to look like thorny vines
but it makes so much more sense now why it is that way and also why the Worm-faces are LIKE THAT. and why they spread death-blight.
death and decay were basically forbidden but with Godwyn's attempted (quite literal) treeroot burial and subsequent integration into the root-system, the signifiers of decay became more tree/plant-like
The dreadful Eyes of Death spread disaster
across neighboring worlds. Phantoms lured
to the host world may end up as victims,
allowing the Eyes of Death to multiply,
and leading to further proliferation of bane.
-Eye of Death Item description, Dark Souls 1
The wormy roots are very similar looking to the hornsent's mask, which is made of "caterpillars" that supposedly ward off impure thoughts, and then of course there are the worm faces, who seem like corrupted potentates or something.
While a smaller creator myself, I've made a bunch of videos about Godwyn as well, noting how his corruption has spread not only to places where Deathroot can be found (such as in Liurnia or Limgrave, and catacombs all over the land), but also as far away as Stormveil Castle, and even infecting a large crab in Liurnia. I have a similar fascination with Godwyn, and this just adds to that. These details are pretty amazing.
Stormveil thorns look a lot like the thorns of Radagon that block the entrance of the Erdtree and I haven't seen anyone talking about the similarities and what it would convey
Not a lot of people notice that but you’re right they’re exactly similar. I’ll admit there’s something weird about out Radagon and Godwyn in how similar they seem to look. I know the timeline implies these two are far apart but I can’t help but feel the line gets blurred with these two for me personally. At first it was simply by the way Radagon looks similar to Godwyn(or what glimpses we see of him). The Stormcaller Church is one of the biggest headscratchers because everything surrounding it is connected to Godwyn(dragon cult items and the monument detailing the routing of the dragons) yet there stands a statue of Radagon. That statue also has golden hair(all of Radagons statues have golden hair I think). The way Radagon and Godwyn are dressed is similar too and halfway into his health bar, Radagon begins to use golden spears in the style of a lightning user which is peculiar since that was Godwyn’s trademark with Golden Lightning. He teleports as lightning, which is what Godwyns knights are able to do(they wear the same sash/skirts) and he uses the Storm Stomp AOW.
@@puzzleheaded6195 Remember though; Radagon _is_ Marika.
Anything he's linked to can link to her and vice versa i'd imagine as such.
(though i am out of my depth on how it would all connect together. I'm mostly relegated to repeating the knowledge i've picked up.)
Maybe Radagon took all of Godwyns Power after he died
@@puzzleheaded6195 You and I seem to theorycraft in similar ways! Maybe Godwyn was an earlier split off from Marika? Maybe in a similar way as how Miquella cast off St. Trina to divest himself of "love," to do what needst be done to bring about the Age he wanted, she also cast off her own best qualities to become Godwyn, so that she could bring about the Shattering.
I can't find any transcripts online atm, but I recently discovered that Melina's words from Marika at the Rold lift imply that Marika didn't trust the Greater Will, which makes all the more sense given what we've learned from the DLC re: Metyr. I can very much see Marika having taken up her godhood with the intent of betraying the Greater Will from the very beginning.
She puts herself in power, and as an early measure gets rid of every part of herself that could make her doubt or hesitate in what she needed to do- creating the perfect golden child, beloved by all. She removes Death from the Elden Ring and puts it somewhere that she knows it can be stolen, and arranges its theft. Has the only one of her children who could have upheld Order in her absence killed, and in the process ensures that poor, loyal Maliketh will never allow it to be stolen again- making room for the Tarnished to be brought back from their banishment. She casts off whatever part of herself that becomes Radagon (unless he's more of a Sewer Mohg/Margit situation), gives him the Rune with the crosshatch pattern always pictured behind him so that he can seal the Erdtree after her crucifixion, as an added measure to ensure that only the Right™ Tarnished can succeed. (The Right™ Tarnished possibly being specifically a Demigod, as implied by the Mausoleum sounds in the opening, and further supported by "A man cannot kill a God") Somewhere in here is whatever Hewg did to earn her wrath- I saw theorycrafting that he was the one who "leaked" the knowledge of Death's location, which he would obvs have been set up to do. Hewg is imprisoned so that he can create a god-slaying weapon.
Our Tarnished makes their way to the Lands Between, uses Hewg's weapon, reclaims Death from Maliketh, slays the god, and now the Lands Between are well and goodly severed from any access to or influence from the Greater Will for a long, long time at the very least.
Also somewhere in there is Melina and Messmer, and their respective roles in enacting her vengeance against the Hornsent and ensuring that her chosen Maidenless Tarnished would have a way to get into the Erdtree later.
((obviously this is all theorycrafting for fun, anyone is welcome to pick this apart, just please do so in the spirit of shared enjoyment))
Thorns look like thorns... big shocker
Godwyn is fascinating to me. Not only because of lore, but when I was in Stormveil for the first time a few months ago, I fell down a bit (died of fall dmg) and saw one of Godwyns faces. I was completely shocked. A few weeks later, I went down there again to kill the tree spirit nearby for the last Golden Seed I needed for max flasks, took a look at his face again and began getting really interested. Then I found out about Deeproot Depths, an entire area I completely missed 💀 still don’t know how to trigger Fortissax battle btw haha…
The purple liquid around Godwyn is especially interesting since Those Who Live in Death are more linked to the milky water tainted by corpse-wax.
Having the purple of Putrescence around him is an awesome thematic visual.
Thank you for showing all of this so close up! I’ve always wondered about Godwyn and that entire area. Two thoughts came to me while watching:
4:41 - this shot reminded me so much of the versions of the abyssal snake/ Messmer snake transformation that are covered in eyes like this (though different eyes of course)
7:06 - it’s been bugging me for a long time that in BonfireVN’s video of Radagon, he has what at first glance is his long braid, but the texture isn’t hair, it’s shiny and there is a hair texture off to the side that looks braided. I guess you could call the thicker one multiple braids wrapped together, but with that non-hair texture they look more like these caterpillars or tangled intestines.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and leave a nice comment, Kimba! I'll have to check out that Radagon vid.
Dude the eyes have me jaw dropped! Never even notice the three on the left. But for there to be even more?! Crazy!
About the marine-apparance of Godwyn, two are the main point. First, in Elden Ring (And Bloodborne) Spirit, Afterlife and Cosmos are connected to water. (Loretta's ash appear on a giant water-mirror, Ranni's spell of Rennala appear on a giant sea with a moon, Elden Beast on a giant pond, ancient spirits stay in a sort of swamp, etc etc) Godwyn is souless, it's an abomination, alive but no soul, stagnant, and stagnant water turns into a corrupted swamp.
Second motive, connected to the first, Miyazaki loves the idea of Marine-Apparance to show a corruption for stagnation. Remember Aldritch from DS3? Depth are a corruption of stagnant Darkness and it generates disgusting insects (All Dark generate insects, but while normal Dark generates Cicadas and Butterfly, the ones we find in the Ringed City, Depth generate Worms, Parasites and Flies, insects considered very bad in Japanese colture), in Depth Cathedral they worship a lake of Darkness, and Aldritch soul talks about Age of Deep Sea. Same concept here.
P.s: Fun fact, Sleep and Death a lot of times are considered correlated, like the brothers Hypnos and Thanatos. And, well,Dlc literally Kill us when we sleep,.
P.p.s: "Outer Gods are lovecraftian god-aliens!1!1!1" Godwyn here is the most lovecraftian thing. Literally Death can't even save you from a bad respawn.
My working theory was that Godwyn's progressing corruption was due to an outer god seeing a soulless living vessel and being like "it's free real estate," but I actually really, really like this idea of death and water being innately tied.
@@zekenelsons2069 Miyazaki likes to talk about the same themes through games, especially Kegare. Possession by an Outer God is a classic theory, but Outer Gods are avatars of forces of nature, and Deathroot is born very very very very recently with Godwyn's """death""".
Every time I pass by an aspen tree, with spots of former branches that look eerily like eyes, I think of Godwyn. Such a cool character design.
Youre right, the thorns, it looks like briars of judgement at stormveil.
The best word to describe Godwyns body and surrounding is mesmerizing. I always leaned towards this kind of places in games, which are fully open to player yet are undeniably mysterious and uncanny.
I wonder what discussions would Zayf the Scholar and Zullie the Witch have if they met each other at a bonfire
It would mostly be just me sitting there quietly starstruck.
Fact that goldwyn was the most helpful and kind member of the family, and most sane of all them....but what happened to him is worse than what they suffered from.
Dude I just discovered your channel for the first time. I can't believe the quality of content you have in your videos. This is insane. I binge watched half your videos yesterday, best Tuesday night ever after a long day at work. I subbed. Please keep the content coming :)
Thank you so much man! Comments like this keep me going. 💪
Goodwyns spreading corruption isy favorite aspect of ER lore, a zayf vid promising new insights is worth getting hyped for
hope you enjoyed it k1xnt!
Awesome quality in sound, visuals and commentary. A great video overall
It's sad that they didn't explore him too much in the dlc...
He's a shoe in for whatever comes next
I still really just can’t believe he wasn’t featured in the dlc
Thank you so much bro. The Godwyn's corruption always intrigued me, how can such a beautiful noble man turn into that "thing"??? That is definitely the most disturbing place in Elden Ring in my opinion and no one talks about it. Awesome video
I'm personally of the opinion that Godwyn's face should be viewed "beak down", since that's how it is presented when we find it in Stormveil and the DLC catacombs. That would make a lot more sense than FromSoft deciding to consistently portray him upside-down. It also makes no sense to put his nose on his forehead. I don't know what that thing above his eyes is supposed to be exactly, but I don't think it's a mouth. It looks more like he's growing a third eye, which given that it's a Japanese game might have some symbolic meaning.
My last playthrough I managed to see the big three eye balls for the first time on his throne and it freaked me out. The team reall went all out on his design.
I just realised that Godwyn is technically both "Baldur" and "Nidhogg" from Norse history...
Love these videos especially about Godwyn, I hope we get to learn more. Your voice is very soothing, I love watching these before bed. Thanks Zayf!
Genuinely appreciate the kind words, Noah!
Although I don't know if the subject matter is very good for bed time 😆
I love your videos on Godwyn. I am still holding out hope for at least a tiny bit more lore and maybe optional boss with what's coming ^^u
I developed a habit like a few weeks after beating Elden Ring back in January 2023 where I go to the prince of deaths throne site of grace before saving and quitting, because before I hop off for the day I tend to just look in absolute wonder at Godwyns corpse and the surrounding area, I’ve never seen anything like him in any video game before.
One thing that came to mind in this video is "how did Godwyn's corpse get taken there" and I realized it probably passed the seal of the Three Fingers on its way to Deeproot Depths. Leyndell is technically directly connected to that area that way through the Shunning-Grounds. Now the question is: who took him there? Didn't quite get that far. Thanks for this fascinating video though!
The eyes growing in clusters like grapes
Mmm might I trouble you for some shabriri grapes?
The connection between Godwyn and St Trina is Fate.
Godwyn was fated to become a Martyr for Destined Death as the Deeproot Death Finger Crone says. He was fated to be the first of the Demigods to die and become the Death Prince. I think this is why he seemingly allowed himself to be killed by the Black Knives without much of a fight. No one anticipated that he would die by this half-death.
Those who live in Death exist in a state of eternal life but through their souls animating dead things.
St Trina was supposed to be Miquella's fate. She would have been a God capable of spreading her Eternal Sleep throughout the Lands Between essentially granting a form of Eternal Death to anyone that drinks it but without them needing to physically die. This eternal sleep manifests though her directly as her nectar. Nectar is something a flower or tree uses to attract INSECTS to pollinate it. This form of Death would have been perfect for Those Who Live in Death.
Many people speculated that Godwyn was Miquella's original consort and that the events at Castle Sol were meant to bring back his "comrade" (Godwyn) so he could fulfill that role. I think this was true in terms of Fate but Miquella and Ranni rejected their fates which resulted in Radahn being the consort and Godwyn being killed in a way that was not intended, leaving him useless as a consort.
I love this idea. Trina would have been the perfect partnership or counter for those who live in death... Those who live in death are often accompanied by swarms of bugs too. None of us wanted to take the spirit at castle sol at his word when he said they failed to return Godwyn with the eclipse. We hoped we would get to see him animated.
I'm still convinced that From intended Godwyn to be the og consort with an eclipse event, but they didn't meet shareholder deadlines, so they scrapped a huge chunk of the lore during development (mainly Miquella's part as Messmer's seems fine - they merged 2 DLCs, keep in mind). So, areas were left unfinished, and enemies got misplaced, so they chose Radahn for the retcon. (E.g. Death Knights get 'rune buffs' like normal enemies do, i.e they weren't meant to be catacomb bosses but common enemies.)
If, as the Telescope's item description might imply, the Elden Ring was restricting fate while intact, then it might not have had any influence over what happened to Godwyn. The premiere trailer similarly notes that the Elden Ring commanded the stars. Nothing implies that Godwyn let himself die either, just that the Black Knife Assassins were highly efficient with their lethal ambush. The Finger Reader at the Deeproot Depths never mentions fate, just that Godwyn becoming undead is a humiliation.
Regarding Trina, her nectar only changed to become hazardous after Miquella maimed her and left her to die. Trina's natural state really does just relate to sleep, and her post-injury nectar is very much actually lethal, not figuratively so.
While Miquella sought to help Godwyn, nothing suggests he was acting for any reason other than stopping the suffering of those subjected to the Death Blight. The Golden Epitaph was meant to kill Godwyn's body, and when that didn't work, Miquella resorted to reviving the soul instead, hoping that would undo the Death Blight. The Wandering Mausoleums and Lhutel's item description indicate that Godwyn wasn't the only demi-god that people were trying to revive. Also, curiously enough, the Japanese text for Lhutel's item description says that her demi-god was actually revived, though the game shockingly lacks any details on what became of this demi-god afterward.
I'm in the belief that St. Trina was the GEQ and Godwyn is Melina, which is why she mirrors Ranni in terms of story.
@@mysterin5061 The Gloam-Eyed Queen apparently predated Miquella's birth, so how would Trina be her? Melina is also Messmer's sister and, like the other children born between Marika and Radagon, has a mystical butterfly associated with her, implying she's not of the golden lineage.
So I’m unsure if I’m remembering it right but I think possibly it could be a homage to the eclipse from guts where the band of hawk is sacrificed. The landscape in there was. Bloody hellish land of death and destruction and if I remember correctly faces and eyes were formed from the landscape similar to the multiple eyes u found scattered about. And it would be a great symbolism as just like in berserk That was a huge turning point in the story just as this place is hugely important to the Elden ring story for multiple character affecting everyone and everything. And also the symbolism of a major sacrifice that alters and changes the world in both stories
2:26 Godwyns Head is Shaped like a like a Sunflower. Thanks a Missing Piece. The Scadutree Avatar is indeed linked to Godwyn
I'm sure to this day that in the first low res photos of DLC picture preview I saw Godwyns eyes on the Scadutree and later they were removed.
So Godwyn is more than the Three Eyed Raven equivalent in ER. The way he spreads his influence kinda acts like mold tbh. It would be interesting if the Basilisks were the result of the Night of Black Knives, seeing that they are capable of materializing when summoned like the one with the Divine Beast in Rauh Ruins, meaning they're closely tied to Deathblight itself.
*Godwyn becames some type of zombie*
"Hey what if we merged him with the Erdtree roots? I mean what's the worst that could happen?"
Its worth noting that Godwyns iris is a solar eclipse
well when godrick fled the captial w/ marika's veil, who's to say that was the only relic he took? he probably took part of godwyn as a relic and put it in the basement of stormveil
I think there's more links than you might think between Trina and Godwyn and sleep and life in death - remember Godwyn's mental state appears to be a dream state since we enter it, Fia's sleeps along side her companions, Trina's nectar kills us and then provides us with dream messages after we've died, item descriptions seem to evoke the notion of a sweet embrace of death connected to Trina's sleep, and I mean it's literally called eternal sleep, that's literally death xD So yeah, you could probably find alot more connection than just those plus what you highlighted here, it's an interesting point and one I've been wondering about since the DLC came out.
That might actually just be Fia's dream instead, especially since Godwyn's body is visible in it. There's some additional dimension at work though, since Fortissax is there and nothing implies he's already been killed in the way that would create a Remembrance in the Lands Between. As for Trina, her nectar only seemed to become that way after she was maimed and left to die by Miquella.
I heard there was lot of cut content around dreams in elden ring
"I'm kind of obsessed with Godwyn" I don't need to hear more *instant subscribe*
No but in all seriousness, I was so happy to see that I'm not the only one and I discovered your channel through your previous Godwyn lore video which a certain famous fromsoft lore channel never did (for some strange reason since Godwyn is so fascinating???) - so I appreciate you all the more and instantly.
And to be further more honest, you have a soothing, narrating voice that makes me want to borrow close and listen.
Its crazy we all have an insane amount of time in this game and we're still learning new things about it years later. I started to realize what he meant immediately when he said he doesnt think his team can ever out do what they did in terms of scope and detail with elden ring. Masterpiece! Cant wait to see where the lore is in 10 years
I'm obsessed with Godwyn too and haven't even played Elden Ring! The lore is just fascinating.
I think listening to this brought to fruition an idea I have been mulling over. What does it mean that Godwyn is the inverse of Ranni, whose body is dead but soul is alive? Logically this can be expressed as body alive but soul dead. Okay, what does soul death mean when we can plainly see Godwyn definitely has some kind of influence and goals? My thoughts have always been it doesn't mean his soul is destroyed but just marked as no longer among the living. No longer welcome in the realms of the living and should go on to where the dead wait for their next life. But there is a problem with this. By no fault of his own he has something that anchors him to the land of rhe living. His god flesh. How torturous this must be. No wonder he can understand those who Live Within Death and their desperation to continue the life they had before death instead of moving on to a new life. So cursed to be chained to flesh he cannot use what does he use to enforce his will? The rotten, corrupted tree roots that have been bound to his useless flesh. His corruption being what his true body is now.
finding deep root depths for the first time was such a trip not to mention stumbling up godwyns body first time
New theory. Igon killed the giant dragon in shadow of the erd tree and earmt its roar and that's why you and him are the only two that have such roars
The thing about the stormveil damage and "thorns" is that they are all mostly located on the exterior, and are obviously damage origonating from some sort of attack, like a magical seige weapon was used, each spot has a crater like shape, and the patterns of placement imply grouped attacks.
I think it is important to mention that Godwyn and Stormveil / Mountaintops, is the motif of thorns from Shadow of the Erdtree, being a symbol of darkness that grows from suppressing the truth. Godwyn, Marika, and the blood star are all emblematic of violent suppression of the unwanted; Godwyn himself being a manifestation of Marika's curse, like her other children. I think this was Godwyn's fate, Princess Ranni just happened to be in the right position to carry it out. That invites further questions about the cosmos, starlight, and Ranni's place in the greater cosmic plan that not even she can control.
Theres a heavy connection between eyes and the deathroot, obviously. But more like the eyes are the source of the deathroot. If pieces of Godwyn were taken to where each of the cadavers are found, then the reason they don't have deathroot surrounding them is because they dont have the eyes. Gurranq gives the tarnished a "Beast Eye" that trembles when they get near deathroot. In the story trailer, there is a whole shot that focuses on Godwyn's eyes after his soul is killed. The basilisks that spew death blight have large false eyes that resemble Godwyn's. I think the reason eyes were chosen to be the symbol of deathblight is because of the saying "eyes are the window to the soul" and Gowyns kinda doesnt have one anymore. His eyes are a window directly into a void.
Given, this doesnt explain everything, such as why the wormfaces can spew deathblight. But one thing I noticed thanks to this video is that the wormface's worms look a lot like the "worms" that make up the deathroot branches. And in the story trailer, you can see a bunch of worms or maggots moving under Godwyn's skin towards his eyes.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Feel free to talk about them if you want. or let me know if the whole community already knows this as I am new to the Elden Ring scene.
Oooooh, these are all really good observations!
The Deathroot branches are made of Basilisk. It's where they come from. Destined Death, and therefore Deathblight, was once a part of the Erdtree and Elden Ring. Then it was removed. Then, Godwyn was implanted into the Erdtree. Deathblight existed before Godwyn. That's why it's everywhere, especially in places it makes no sense for it to be if Godwyn was the source. But the other aspects of the Erdtree are still affected by Deathblight and vice versa, so with Godwyn being a part of the Erdtree now he also affects it.
This is great, thank you. Not only does it add to the visual gravity of those environments. But for some reason I never connected Godwyn and the GEQ via their association with death. It's interesting to consider the scattered remnants of death as mirroring marika's own ultimate shattering. A sort of curse for having repressed death. Or at least irony in marika's rise over the GEQ only to be suppressed by death in the end. 🎉
This is why there needs to be at least one more Elden Ring DLC. What's happening with Godwyn deserves to be explored fully, and with your discovery about what the "roots" are actually made of, it would be a great tie-in to the fly people from the SotET DLC.
Fun fact: maggots are the larval form of flies, like caterpillars or mealworms are to butterflies/beetles.
THANK YOU for pointing out that the thorny roots in the stormveil castle have NOTHING TO DO with Godwyn's cadaver!!! They are so obviously distinct and I'm so tired of people saying "they both look like tree roots and have something sticking out of them, they're the same" NO THEY NOT
The fact that this never got fleshed out makes me almost certain there's another DLC someday.
Aaaaahhhh yeeeee, Scum and Zayf on the same day? Good dang day my mangos, good dang day!
And smough just uploaded. Its a good lore day indeed
Tf
I’d say the reason why so many details were high out of view was just in case they wanted to put additional
levels into the area.
Easier to prepare for it as a precaution than sloppily adding it later.
The link to st. Trina is probably stronger too considering the lore behind miquella’s love for Godwyn. It would make sense that miquella/st.Trina would put godwyn’s body to sleep, which is furthered by the fact that we fight a boss in Godwyn’s dream.
Wait! the observation of the purple waters may possibly have another explanation as well, now that you mentioned it
of course there is the visual connection between the deep purple color, putrescence, and st. trina
but that may also work the other way around. the water close to godwyn is purple but not white like the white corpsewax waters beneath the plateau.
maybe, just maybe, the purple waters aren't there because godwyn is putrefying but because Trina was there at some point. Miquella was trying to give his brother a "true death" but nothing he did could accomplish that. so miquella's other half did all SHE could in order to bring death to godwyn. she put him into a deep velvet sleep that he would not wake from. the waters turning a deep purple in the process as we see in the Garden of Deep Purple. and she put in place a guardian dragon to his dreams, so that none may wake godwyn from his slumber. this was the closest they could get to giving godwyn "death" - to put him into a death-like deep sleep.
until that is, a certain deathbed companion lay with him, gave another the means to slay godwyn's dream, wake him from his deathly slumber to rise as the first of the dead if the mending rune of death was to be incorporated into the elden ring.
The theorycrafting in Zayf comments is *chef kiss*
I love everything about this.
I like the idea that the reason Godwyn’s body doesn’t move despite still being alive is due to whatever life is in Godwyn’s body moved into the tree and is looking out through it’s many eyes, as if Godwyn has become some kind of death tree entity the size of the entire lands between, and perhaps it’s emissaries are the Basilisks.
I love the notion that Zayf is just flyin around The Deeproot Depths SCOURING for information because his neurons won’t let him leave without an answer 😂😂😂 my boy hit the night vision, he hit the Lorax, and he hit the SoulsTuber all in one video
I feel like with all the details of Godwynn that he will likely be the main focus of a sequel
I'm not surprised about the color purple showing up for both the Prince of Death and St. Trina, as sleep is simply a temporary death.
Hm...I think the reason so many of these details aren't visible is maybe because the team designed Godwyn's corpse before they figured out how big they wanted to make him or where exactly he'd be placed. So they might've made the whole model and adjusted the size and shading after the fact.
The thing I do t understand is how his body is so incredibly huge, in the cinematic it shows that he’s about the size of the black knife assassins which is about the size of the tarnished
I think I remember seeing an older version of the game's script that had a very different explanation as to why Godwyn was down there. Originally, Godwyn was born afflicted with a curse, just like Miquella and Melania are. He didn't become the Prince of Death because his death caused the spread of Deathblight. He was always born with it, so he was born the Prince of Death. This is why that area is referred to as his throne. He was placed there on purpose by someone to spread the blight all over the Lands Between.
I'm guessing it was changed because maybe it would have over complicated parts of the lore, but it is very interesting none the less.
10:40 Is it me or do these eyes resemble buds? Its like they wilted away before they even had the chance to blossom. They also look like weird fruits. Considering the role of eyes in the game as windows to runes, maybe these are pockets of Godwyn's new runes that accumulate within the corrupted bark. And here we thought how Miquella came up with the idea of planting himself into a tree. There you go. Been staring at his dead brother for too long
Godwyn's eye sockets remind me of what we saw the golden threads being pulled out of in the DLC trailer. Eyes are the windows of the soul so it makes sense that it would be an eye of some kind.
One of the few sponsors segments I’m not skipping
🙏 appreciate you noamias!
@@ZayftheScholar it seems like a good product by a genuine company, I’ll likely buy it
It really is. The owner is an Elden Ring fan and he reached out to me personally to make this happen!
Is it my imagination or does some of the bark at 4:23 look like smaller, closed eyelids? This whole video is nasty af and makes me more sure than ever that Frenzied Flame is the best ending.
100% Agree and glad you noticed it! I thought people would roast me for reaching too much so I didn't mention it 😅
those “maggot” deathblight spires are like the worms from the worm face guys faces, since they also use deathblight
These eyes are all over some catacombs and ruins too. Especially wherever those who live in death or deathblight can be found
The Glow-What queen? I need the lore video title for that one.
Gloam-Eyed Queen, a character mentioned in various lore items as the mother of the Godskin Apostles and a former empyrean. There's a lot of speculation around her.
I've just realized something. Eyes are very important design elements of the demigods. His eyes are a depiction of an eclipse. And also bear similarity to the "hole" iconography of the Greater Will.
I know im a few months late but, something ive noticed about Godwyn's design is that the clam like growth that is his "face." Looks like it clamps over his true head, his thick blonde hair comes drom between and over the two growths from Godwyn's neck and "face." Like the face is consuming his true human skull. Kinda like how cancerous tumors above the skin can begin to grow themselves over someone's body. Looking at refrences of Teratomas that entirely cover peoples faces reminds me a lot of how godwyn's "face" looks. Wether it be godwyn himself projecting his new face and identity as the prince of death onto his body, or complete corruption from the outer god of death is up to an interpretor. Godwyn's eyes were never that large before his death, so the face that grows over his true head is not his true skull and face. Even if it copies the features of godwyn, it is very clearly enveloping everything that he once was in a visual message that to me, communicates complete and total consumption and corruption. Almost near possessiveness. Many gods in elden ring have their powers conveyed as blights and diseases, the scarlet rot being a magical parasitic superfungus that mutates bodies , death blight being a cancer that spreads through consumption or contact that also mutates bodies, and the maddening sickness which spreads to others psychologically with limited affects on the body compared to the other two. All three share the theme that these powers completely destroy who a person is, turning them into something unrecognizable. Destroying the person's image to imitate the god that was responsible for the corruption. A god of death using godwyn's body to create its own image out of his unmoving body is not very far fetched to think about. Many people came to free godwyn from the corruption, including the dragon he befriended, but failed to kill him, and as a result got consumed themselves. Safe to say the symbolism of Godwyn's corpse tells us that the Godwyn known to the world is long gone, twisted and malformed and puppeteered by forces beyond himself, wether he is accepting of the fate he has or not. In my own perception and judgement of Godwyn, the Godwyn before his death, the empathetic and compassionate Godwyn, who gave care to even the most repulsive beings, deliver him a true death, he deserves far more than to be a puppet and a cancer of an outer god.
Godwins presence in the realm of shadow could possibly upend our timelines. If Godwin was placed at the base of the erdtree before Marika invaded the land of shadow, then it would make sense why he's there twice. OR he could simply pierce the veil.
Its definitely not blood on the tree unless the wounds from Godwyn are fresh and I am fairly confident they are not. Blood doesn't just stay red, when its fresh it appears as red but the longer it sits in open air the more its appearance will blacken and eventually look more like tar then blood if it continues to fester and not dry out. More then Likely it is the tree resin we find and use to make the different greases as the color on the tree closely resembles that of the resin. Edit: 7:18 the maggots look a lot like the thing that is wrapping around the statue of the two figures in Enir-Ilim, perhaps this was how Radagon and Merika were joined together, but I'm just speculating at this point.
Trina being the Gloameyed queen maybe makes sense- Fia entered the Deathbed Dream, Trina is the goddess/ representation of sleep.
Something everyone misses is that you get that death light resistance talisman under Stormveil next to the Godwyn body, perhaps theres away to stop its spread before it begins?