If my Bald Marika theory still doesn't have you convinced, check out this unused statue (pre-burned?) twitter.com/Zlofsky2nd/status/1662245164385959938?s=20
You made me a believer that it’s Marika. Makes me think is that if she is a spirit tuner then she may have had a greater insight into the mechanics of the world to allow for her ‘inverting’ and that Radagon could be her double that eventually began subsuming her.
The Bald/Marika theory could potentially even accomodate for Radagon: if Marika would have lost her hair to the Flame of Ruin, maybe her hair grew back red because of some curse from the giants or the Flame itself, so that she clensed herself by splitting Radagon from herself, just like speculated by the oldest theory about Ragadon and his relation with the giants (see the Giant's Red Braid item).
God damnit Crunchy, you’ve done it again. This was on the same level for personal revelations on my end as your Helphen video. Everything after you first said the works “bald monk” was bombshell after bombshell, incredibly fascinating and unique theories. This is one of those videos where I leave seeing Elden Ring in a COMPLETELY different way
“The title of outer gods might imply the existence of inner gods” FUCK HOW HAVE I NEVER CONSIDERED THAT. It would fit perfectly with the dualistic, push/pull, inner/outer theme of Elden Ring
@@cigman777The gods, who based on their outer origin seems to be interchangeable with sort of cosmic phenomena could exist on an inner plane as well, being expressions of emotions or wills, as proposed in the video with the GW, or as the cut off god of vengeance, since there's a possibility of seeing the cosmos as an expression of the inner self, perhaps the two worlds exist as different planes but intrinsically connected. The cosmos as a collective box for all individual expressions.
Co-lab! Co-lab! Co-lab! We need an "Elden Ring Project" like we got for dark souls. Get all the big lore guys to create the timeline as we see it now. But I do think that should wait till the dlc's are out
@@snowsomnus2534 nameless ring is the channel name. I don't know if they are a lore guy or if they just have the ability to access the data files. A lot of their videos are bosses fighting each other.
Bald monk identity as Marika burned from sealing giant's flame may be a small detail in grand scheme of things but is an eye opener and breakthrough in my opinion. Makes me appreciate this connection to Melina. Poetic how she is burned doing the opposite - releasing the sealed fire. The spirit world's watery border getting blurred grants strong framework for understanding the omnipresent spirits.
What if Melina was a part of Marika that Marika sacrificed in sealing the flame, burning her body. Thus the Melina we know is burned and bodyless. To release the flame, she burns away her soul as well, somewhat ironically releasing her from this half-existence to achieve full peace.
You should do a crossover episode with T-L-G-T-W since both of you touch on many of the same points regarding the foundational principals that make up the world of Elden Ring.
Mind blown @ "the dark moon being a vortex" revelation I just had and its implications. I never really paid attention to the fact that it really looks vortex-like on my first playthrough. It's very subtle but definitely distinctly there. You can even see stars and galaxies. Damn From Software is just so good with the little nuances and throwing-offs like that haha
Hot take: The bald monk is Midra, Lord of Frenzied Flame. The held branches are the Greatsword of Damnation, he has the burns, burning branches at the base, and the "sprout" is the Frenzied Flame. Also explains why there were the burning heads of him.
13:41 In regard to how the trailer claims that the Elden Ring commanded the stars, I think a better descriptor is that it commanded fate. The stars and fate are inextricably linked in the game. It is mentioned multiple time that before the Age of The Erdtree that the astrologers read and predicted fate in the stars, but with the rise of the Greater Will that this was made obsolete. A lot of people like to say that because of Japanese translations, the Greater Will is not an outer god, but there was clearly a time before it. There was life before the greater will, and there was fate before the greater will. It simply ordered it into something new. It asserted its will over the old, it’s Greater Will if you would.
A note about translation of the Roderika quotation that may be relevant. In Japanese, she says: "...霊なる不死性が、律の元でどのようにあり." Which I would read as: "[I understand] how, by means of the foundations of order [律の元], the immortal essence that becomes spirit exists" Notably, the term often used in the game for "Golden Order" [黄金律] is not used here; the character meaning "golden" [黄金] doesn't appear here at all, but instead the more generic "foundation of order" [律の元] (alternatively: the "origin of order" or "source of order"). A quick search shows that "律の元" is not used anywhere else in the game. What about just "order", 律? As far as I can tell, that is used when and /only/ when referring to what gets translated as "Order"---as in, the Golden Order, the Order that Ranni will install ("mine Order"), the new Orders referred to in the mending runes, the Order that the Frenzy Flame does away with, etc. Roderika herself says that, in the Dung Eater's curse, she hears a "fearsome Order" [律]. It never gets used to talk about the primeval current, or the death rite birds, etc. It could be that in using "律," Roderika means to be referring to the Golden Order specifically. Now, Roderika never explicitly says "Golden order" once in the game. Since Japanese lacks a definite article, perhaps she should be read as saying "foundations of /the/ order," contextually understood to refer to the currently extant order (i.e. the Golden Order). I'll leave it to more fluent speakers to judge whether this is a natural reading. But what I want to suggest is that Roderika's quotation can be read as saying: she understands how spirits exist, as flowing from the foundations or sources of Order itself, whether that be the Golden Order, the Dung Eater's Order, or whatever. We have the idea of these Orders being permutations of some set of underlying elements (perhaps with removal). Maybe there are deeper principles that hold in /any/ Order whatsoever, and it is those that Roderika is referring to. In that case, the Golden Order wouldn't be uniquely responsible for immortal essences taking on the form of spirits; it would flow from deeper cosmological sources. Just a thought.
1:21:06 have you ever considered that the shattering could possibly be related to Rykard being eaten by the snake? Just because there is a shaking associated with the snake and ragnarok in Norse mythology
Why are we assuming 'beasts' have no consciousness? They react to pain and love, they have their own personalities and behave in every way a conscious creature would. To me it seems more likely they did have consciousness but it wasn't AS ordered and therefore there was room for the elden ring/beast to bring evolution/intelligence/civilization rather than consciousness.
Alot to take in and a bit overwhelming. What my mind made from it is that every one mind is different and complicated. And if you would lay out all minds of eveyone on some sort of canvas then there would be overlap in ways of thinking feelings etc. Now I imagine the greater will being the dominant one and the outer gods are just other overlaps that are of significance. The fun thing is that these overlaps can manifest in the world of elden ring in physical form. And that all overlaps are flawed in some way. The golden order has no death witch is nice as a tought but turns out more as a curse. Rot is stagnation. Frenzy madness. Maybe if all runes would be combined in one elden ring that the world of elden ring would be whole again 🤔 I did not pick up on the 2 of the same thing. I just thought it was re using assets for programming purposes. But its probably a yin yang thing then also. A form of inbalance Verry interesting. Thanks for the video
Hey Crunchy, regarding the DLC, I think the DLC will have an Event like Bloodborne where the Blood Moon in Bloodborne was always there, but thanks to us, we remove the Veil that keeps the Blood Moon hidden which was Rom, revealing the true reality around us. And since the Erdtree is dying perhaps that Great Tree in the DLC Picture that strangles the Erdtree like a (Snake) is the true reality where the Erdtrees Life Essence seeps out. Revealing to us that theres a massive second Tree that kills the Erdtree. (Excuse my bad english please).
I have to ask, because I haven't been following Berserk for years now, but was the tree from Elden Ring inspired by the one from Berserk or vice versa? Because Berserk gets thrown around alot in ER, and even though I am very familiar with the Manga, I think that the lore, the dynamics in particular, are very much more like a GRRM piece of writing. In fact there are plenty of ASOIAF influences in there. If I have to choose which of these two influenced ER most, I'd say GRRM's work more so (MUCH MUCH MORE SO) than Kentaro Miura's (RIP). Yes, I am aware that it had a huge influence on Dark Souls, but I think it's more of an aesthetics thing. The "plot" to this game is so Targaryen-esque I literally don't even know where to begin the comparison. Also, selfcest.... lol
Berserk’s Spiral Tree was before ER- but both are drawing from things like Yggdrasil, JRRT’s Telperion & Laurelin, the Edenic trees, etc. Inspiration isn’t necessarily a simple linear thing.
also what about the Uld palace ruins? i dont think thats a coincidence its named that and some of it is underground and above ground. im curious about that.
If only yh finger maidens can level up yh tarnished, then how does Melena leave the power to turn runes into strength with us when she A: leaves us in th capital, or B: is burned to awaken the fire of ruin?
Margit is always susceptible to statuses, but the Mohg below Leyndell is immune to everything. Mohg the Omen doesn't bleed or freeze, and can't be inflicted with poison or rot. This really makes that version of Mohg seem illusory to me. He also disappears into golden particles, which the Lord of Blood does not, and just beyond him lies the golden barrier blocking the drop to the 3 Fingers until we defeat Morgott. To me, this says an illusion of Mohg was placed there to deter anyone seeking to walk the chaotic path. One could easily imagine that Mohg was a frightful presence while he stalked the depths beneath Leyndell, and enabling the belief that he still lurks down there could be an effective deterrent before even serving as a physical guardian.
the way every element of this games writing seems to never concretely resolve and just flows back in on itself and relate to every other element is absolutely fascinating, ive never seen anything like it. a huge amount of effort was made to have it be this way when it would have been so much easier to give the various threads clean thematic or narrative resolutions (which is even what previous fromsoft games did imo, even if they were obscured). it's a truly bizzare and unique way to write a story
Miyazaki has said he grew up reading fantasy in English, but his English wasn’t perfect, so he always felt the plot was a little obscure to him, and he tries to recreate that feeling for the player in his games.
PATTERN RECOGNITION MODE IS FROTHING BEASTMEN = FAILINGS OF MASCULINITY RELATING TO FAITH AND NOX IS THE FAITH OF FEMININITY RELATING TO FAITH/GOD/WHATEVER AND IT ILLUSTRATES THE NECESSITY OF DUALITY AND ILLUSTRATES WHAT GOD OR OUR CREATOR IS TRYING TO SHOW US WHICH IS THE BEAUTY AND NECESSITY OF CHAOS AND ORDER
My cousin found this video and linked it in a Discord chat him, myself, and a bunch of our friends are in. We are huge From fans and we all watched this video late at night 2 days ago at the same time and have been discussing it for the last several days. Keep this kind of content coming. ❤
The Fell Twins. I just realized something. Omens in Elden Ring occupy an existential binary in that their horns either ARE or are NOT excised depending on a single variable: Whether they are highborn or lowborn. Or at least, it is established that there is a causal relationship between Morgott and Mohg being Marika's and Godfrey's children, and not having had their horns excised. (I don't remember where it's said, though...) So, in the event that there are any multiverse shenanigans going on, the Fell Twins could be M&M if they'd been born into a different social class.
Well...since this is a metaphysical discussion, the 'multiverse' you propose does not actually accommodate your interpretation. Even in a multiverse scenario, the existence of Mogh and Margott are dependent on them being the children of Marika, a high-born. They couldn't be otherwise and still maintain their essence. That is, if you are taking an essentialist view, which you must given the kind of reasoning you have presented then they could not 'exist' by any other means. Their existence depends upon the genetic or progenerative essence of their parents, who happen to be high-born. It could not be otherwise and these two somehow be thought to exist otherwise. They would be built from separate, 'low-born' essence. This is a very typical philosophical point of inquiry regarding identity. If you were born from different parents, 'you' simply could not be 'you'. You would be born from a separate 'essence', a separate DNA. You would be predisposed to encounter reality in an entirely different way. The nature and happenstance of their lives are what are in question under this 'multiverse' interpretation you are suggesting. But their birth nature is inherently dependent on their parents. Like, if they had been born of different parents, they simply wouldn't be 'morgott' or 'mogh'. They would be different entities, born of different essences. They would be wholly separate beings. Your metaphysical understanding of 'multiverse' scenarios is simply misbegotten.
Put another way, had Marika not attained her own 'highly status', then the factors that led to the eventual existence of margott and mogh would have not occurred. There isn't a multiverse that is possible where they could be 'low-born'. Their existence is dependent on Marika reaching her status and partnering with Godfrey. It is a logical fallacy to suggest otherwise. In this multi-verse scenario, the only two options are for them to be either 'high-born' or 'non-existent'. Their existence is dependent upon certain facts within the history of Elden Ring which your suggestion defies. Even though I totally respect the sentiment of what you are saying. Multiverse scenarios are structural narratives wherein certain aspects of causation must be met, while others can remain in flux. Aspects of identity and their dependence on genetic material (in our reality) or essences (one way to interpret elden ring) are prerequisite determinations. If you take away certain prerequisite conditions, then certain outcomes are simply barred. Children being born and their identities is intrinsically tied to a very specific spatio-temporal distinction. That is. The conditions of the birth of a given entity cannot be changed within a multiverse scenario. That detail.must remain intact, or else the entitiy described will not be the same. Listen. If Marika did a bunch of K or G after an erd tree rageer right before she has margott or mogh, it would utterly change them in such a way they would be intrinsically different from the mogh who came to be. Yes. But what is the scenario under which Marika begets a child with Godfrey such that their omen child would be 'low-born'. Sorry i'm nerding out, y'all . I mean no harm.
@logancade342 thank you!! Haha I was tipsy at the time after a nice dinner and just excited to talk metaphysics. I feel a good counter-argument for what I was saying is that in a very strict essentialist metaphysical reality, one could adequately argue that the essence of an individual is 'strictly' the essence of the individual. That is to say, the essence of an individual exists in a predetermined manner. With Erdtree resurrection in mind, there is certainly an argument to be made there. However, with that in mind we are logically drawn to how such an essence was predetermined to exist Along this line of thinking, one counter to this counter is that it would require entities capable of creating such a reality where souls could be predetermined to such a degree that matters of causality, like so many details of basic causality, somehow don't really factor into someone's essence. Seemingly, despite David Hume's "The Problem of Induction", there IS a 'law' of causality in the game. So ..but let's not digress. For an example, if Mogh's 'soul' or 'essence' somehow existed beyond the scope of various factors of causality's effects on his birth. Then, that claim presupposes there would be entities of magnitude beyond the Elden Beast. Something or some force would have set up the metaphysics of the universe such that distinct, individual essences of a 'person' both pre-exist, as well as are (seemingly absolutely) predetermined before their birth. This may be anti-thetical to science, not fantasy.. and!! Even looking at real-world philosophy in Plato's concepts of 'ideal forms', and the fact within the fiction we have the 'Elden Ring', itself, which did exist prior to the Elden Beast and seems to reflect some kind of 'order'.This is a really fun point of inquiry you brought up!!! You touched upon something so central to the ENTIRE mystery. And that is so cool. Your multiverse theory is not outside the realm of possibility. I guess one further thing I think about is the nature of 'outer gods' (and perhaps if we are familiar with how translations seem to attribute the language surrounding the discussion of 'outer gods' to 'kami', or spirits with relation to certain aspects nature (here used synonymously with 'reality'), it seems to suggest competing entities of similar magnitude, at least in comparison to the Elden Beast--but not the 'Order'...which (by its name and lore) seems to suggest some kind of predetermined serious essences, right?? There is definitely more room to explore, and thankfully we will have the dlc very soon!!!! If you can't tell, I have really enjoyed your thoughts and have gone off the deep end lolol
Holy shit, if the sun was the 'golden star' and was summoned into being after the world already existed, that would explain why there are so many creatures and factions that are so aligned with night and the moon, and the multiple moons for that matter. This could finally tie the Nox to those Ancestral Followers who are all over their zones - Ancestral Followers might represent those early hominids that existed when the world was eternal night, and shunned the beastmen's sun, and later evolved into the night-worshipping Nox.
Given that Fingers communicated in a cipher of light and another word for 'cipher' is 'code' (source: cipher pata), gave me an impression that runes are literally a programming code of this world; i.e. Marika is admin-level user who hacked the root / source code to remove Rune of Death and then tried to format the whole system (and Radagon did a hasty patch and thus bricked the world in an endless stagnation) and what we absorb as runes is just a raw source code of the other beings; Fingermaidens are authorized under Fingers sub-programmers (and Melina is unauthorized such sub-programmer) who can integrate this raw other code into our code thus making us stronger.
@@montyparata3507The way I see it, Marika tried to crash the system (by destroying Elden Ring) and Radagon immediately tried to fix it (you can see it in both in the trailer where Marika immediately changes to Radagon and in a cutscene where first strike of the hammer is Marika but second, if you look closely, is Radagon; some item descriptions support it as well). The result of it, in my opinion, is that the whole system is 'bricked' by Radagon's effort - not fixed (as the Elden Ring still broken) but also not destroyed fully as Marika intended. Radagon, being a stauch Golden Order fundamentalist, put all his being into preserving the world order where Golden Order is still a dominating power but his efforts along (even after he manifested the trellis / crosshatch Rune to support and protect the broken Elden Ring - this is the one preventing us from entering the Erdtree) were not entirely successful. Continuing the code/program analogy: Imagine a very hasty, barely functional Operating System patch to juuuuuuuuuust prevent the computer from total crashing but now, out of all the programs, you can only run Calculator and even this, very very slowly.
Great video as always. I think a very under explored area of the games lore is how invasions and phantoms work. We know they are cannon and not just some multi player feature, we are invaded in offline mode. There are also items like the 'Tarnished's Furled Finger" that confirm that the tarnished are helping one another across worlds. The tarnished have been coming to The Lands Between for a very long time, since the Shattering but it seems in drips and drabs, not all at once. Perhaps when the tarnished died outside the lands between they should go to the spirit world but since that world was pulled into the lands between, it created some kind of bridge for us to get to the lands between and we wake up resurrected. It appears like each tarnished have their own world (as does each player) and can alter their own world as they see fit. These worlds have their own time lines since the shattering. Maybe there was one world before the shattering, but afterwards many worlds splintered off, this is how Vyke obtained two great runes yet we see no bosses that have been killed. Perhaps one was Godefroy. I think all the clones and phantom versions of characters are in a pre shattering state (please correct me if I am wrong). In the final boss fight with the Elden Beast, we see a multitude of Erdtrees, perhaps each has their own world and own order. Marika split the world so we forge our own in the way we best see fit and bring some form of balance to the multiverse.
8:49 Another interpretation is that the "Golden star" itself became the Elden Ring, not the elden beast. Which would explain why the Elden Ring still exists after killing the Elden Beast
@@BastosFC2 i still thinks it means the beast itself became the elden ring i’d be curious to see how a japanese player would interpret that item description on the japanese text. It would be interesting if the sentence functionally worked with either interpretation in both languages
This is one of the most impressive pieces of scholarly game study ever. Mindbending eye for detail, CLOSE reading with so much clarity. Not only that, but you're finding new interpretations that I've never heard before. You'd think that 18 months post release, all would be revealed, right? Miyazaki and From are obscenely brilliant, and clearly so are you
I think the idea about time and history being altered both in the past and the future alike, the idea about the sun being the golden star that's mentioned in item descriptions, as well as the idea about the mirror realities reflected in water and pulled through into the lands between from the spirit world by marika, will each end up on the same level of an "it was right in front of us all along, how did we not see it" grade theory as the theory from your earlier video about the Greater Will being a manifestation or accumulation of the collective will of the universe. They'll each end up being one of those "no duh" ideas that fit so well and seem so painfully obvious in retrospect that people wonder why it took so long for someone to come up with them.
It took so long because people are too focused on item descriptions and "lore" being a collection of plot points. When Miyazaki talks about the lore of his games he always remains a lot more metaphorical and symbolic, focusing on grander concepts. I believe there is a concrete reality underlying all of his works but he clearly designed them with their ambiguities in mind. The ideas in this video sound a lot more like what Miyazaki would actually imagine his world to be.
@@FreestateofOkondor agreed. Back when I first played Bloodborne, a lot of my lore theorizing focused on the mechanics and logistics of the world, and while I still find that stuff interesting, I'm glad that I've grown closer to this kind of discussion instead as times gone on.
Making an open world game basically requires you to repeat content it's unavoidable with games this large. I'm an absolute self admitting Miyazaki dick rider. Did he choose to make an open world souls game because it would be the most logical way to explore the concepts of multiplicity and duality. It's such a natural fit because most everything is gonna need repurposed at some point might as well have it fit so naturally into story context. I've seen comments calling bullshit on you justifying godefroy but I'm with you on that Miyazaki wounldnt let that slide as just eh we need another fight right here.
That bald monk theory is incredibly compelling and it explains so much I just want to believe it. If a version of it doesn't end up being true after the dlc enlightens us a bit ngl I'm gonna be a bit disappointed. Also absolutely crazy that the reuse of assets and enemies is repurposed as a story telling device only with from soft do you get that kind of shit.
I love this form of lore video, touching on concepts of the world that make it what it is, rather than a specific character or questline. This is absolutely incredible!
Indeed. So many discussions about specific crap when we don't even understand basic things such as 'the lands between what exactly?' or 'why did marika shatter the elden ring, and what exactly does this imply?' . He offers some answers in the video and while I don't agree with a lot of it it's still exactly the type of discussion we should be having primarily, rather than seeing if we can piece together the life story of boggart in the greatest of detail.
You mentioned that most beings in the lands between gained their godlike power through death, such as Godwin, Ranni, Melania ect... That would explain one of Marikas motives for removing destined death from the Elden Ring, so that none might gain the power to usurp her reign as the 'Eternal' god. Very interesting stuff, the layers keep peeling away to reveal more insights and revelations!
FINALLY! I saw you in rata's livechat today and had to resist the urge to ask when we were finally gonna see something new, didn't expect it'd be tonight itself! 🥳
I cant express how mind bogglingly genius the "Marika pulled the reflective worlds of life and death into eachother" theory is!!!💗💞💖💕 It totally explains the game's obsession with duality. Now all of the reflected concepts have to reckon with eachother head-on instead of being part of a bigger cycle!
Great video, very insightful. Your only idea that I don't quite agree with is that the Erd Tree is the Helphen Tree. I think that Marika replaced the Helphen Tree with the Erd Tree, which she was able to do by cutting off the world of the living from the spirit world by removing the rune of death. When she did that she was able to redirect the cycle of souls to the Erd Tree because they had nowhere else to go, leaving the Helphen Tree to starve. This starving/dead Helphen Tree is the tree that we see in the Shadow of the Erd Tree graphic.
Melina calls herself burned and bodiless. What if she's the monk? Not Marika's first daughter but Marika's initial form, a sort of proto-god, or the woman she was before she became a god and a vessel for the Elden Ring, sacrificed to end the age of the crucible. You said that gaining power requires a death.
@@CrunchyVideos oh man I hadn't even made THAT connection but you right. That's another M lady name that fits the profile. I feel like we're just missing this one chunk of story that would make everything suddenly snap into place.
1:19:49 what u said about guanq’s building having the same architecture as Farum Azula… The grace by the bridge is named Farum Greatbridge. Coincidence? Also the water fall spanning between Caelid and Mtn tops is usually what it looks like when a massive amount of earth is displaced under water.
This was an amazing video. I always know a crunchy upload is gonna be a banger. Food for thought. Have you heard of the inca cosmological concept of the "Pacha". It is a quechua word that roughly translates to "space-time". It describes the world as being formed of different realms, every realm also connected to its unique time. As If all things were a place a time(it also mentions a world above, below, and a land between. Additionally, speaking on thoughts having power in the lands between, I always found it interesting that malenia's healing ability was powered by her determination. Her very will to stave off the rot, yet when hitting the player, an actual effect can be seen, and magical siphoning of life. It's as if ones will/determination/dream, the things they fight in futility that defines them. Like beings being defined by their greatest fears. Maybe elden lord(ambitions, thoughts, principles) is a reflection of that? Idk just some thoughts that have been brewing in my mind.
Elden Ring seems to draw a ton of inspiration from Richard Wagner's "Der Ring des Nibelungen", also the inspiration to LoTR. Magic Rings and runic power, lots of parallels to Celtic and Norse mythology, I'll bet this is somehow a reference
I really love the study of video game cosmology. Games like Elden Ring, Dark Souls, and the Elder Scrolls all have such interesting universes that operate on different rules than our own. Great video, deserves more views for sure. Algorithm bless thee.
Perhaps the best example of sacrifice and death being a means to acquire power is found in us, the Tarnished; by dying and being reborn in the Lands Between, we enter a system wherein we can both collect runes and and power through leveling up, as well as be revived through grace, giving us both limitless potential and effective immortality. Weare hence able to become more powerful than and defeat every enemy we face, including those who have also sacrificed for power (Rykard, Malenia, Fire Giant, etc.).
Amazing video, I'm going to watch it again which I never do with lore videos. This is honestly one of the best lore videos for any Fromsoft game and is the best for Elden Ring in my opinion. The metaphysical reality of these games is way way too under explored in my view, especially Dark Souls, the laws of reality are just as odd in Dark Souls as in Elden Ring I feel. I think Miyazaki might feel people have a blind spot on this too, since he keeps putting "arch trees", in all of the Dark Souls games, Bloodborne and Elden Ring, it just might be too abstract to solve what they really mean, and I don't think it's just a visual motif.
I’m going to comment on runes/grace. Grace is something like magic life juice, I think most would agree on that. Runes are grace that defines, or are, an individual entity. People and other living critters are manifestations of permanently bound runes. Permanently bound runes are sort of like the core of an entity, the core is what is reborn or resurrected. Not all runes are part of the permanent collective, these runes can be separated by stronger collectives and or be integrated by a permanent collective. Strong collective entities can eventually make Great Runes of themselves by permanently integrating large amounts of runes. The ability to permanently bind free runes to collective is a rare trait/knowledge. We collect the free runes when we defeat enemies and their core must start again. When we defeat a shard bearer we get both runes and a Great Rune. Why? We are told that the demigods went wacko because of the power of the Great Runes they possess. The demigods don’t possess Great Runes, the Great possess the demigods and feed on their runes. It could be that Elden Ring was a rune entity that bound a bunch of others to its core, the shattering was a liberation. Maybe the removal of Destined Death broke the binding. Or the Elden Ring was something like a consentual congress. It may be that the process of becoming a great rune involves separating from flesh. This process is what leads to the mending runes we see. Or whatever..
Your close reading is absolutely fantastic, especially how systematic you are. The evolution of these very academic approaches to game analysis is incredibly pleasurable and exciting to observe
I don't know how this is the first video of yours I've watched with how many lore videos I binge, but this was great. Subbed right away and definitely going through all your previous ones too.
About the despair of the eternal city: I think the Nox were guiding stars using their moon as a portal when they were above ground (like Ranni does in the ending) but when they were banished underground they lost their culture of the stars so they opened a void portal (in their despair) as an alternative and they accidentally summoned the Astel.
The part where you talk about the great runes makes me wonder about the fact that marika’s great rune was supposedly supposed to be called the rune of life. Which makes sense for there being a rune of death and a rune of life (it’s the one at the top that looks like a rune arc with the line through it, slightly different from the rune of death.) and while it was cut from the description of the place it’s name appeared, I assume this is still canon because it’s not like it’s something so random it won’t make sense with the vision of the overall story, it still works for the story and actually makes more sense as to why marika’s order is focused on life.
Great work on this one, Crunchy! I just wanted to briefly address the legend described by Elden Stars. Everyone reads it as the origin of the Elden Beast, which is certainly not untrue, but I think this misses the real point of the story, which is to metaphorically describe the rise of the Elden Lord. Godfrey, Radagon and the player all began as mere warriors (beasts) who embody the primal force of chaos, symbolized by Radagon's red hair and Godfrey's cursed blood (which flows through your veins as well). By fighting on behalf of a god and an order, a warrior becomes a champion, and a champion who reconciles and unifies the forces of Order and Chaos within himself can become Elden Lord. We see this unification of Order and Chaos in Godfrey's design, in the unification of the warrior and the noble beast. Radagon became one with the Golden Order to such an extent that he literally became Queen Marika, and at the end of the game, your marital union with Marika or Ranni represents you (Chaos) becoming one with Order. Of course, you also see this alchemical synthesis in the individual figures of Serosh and Elden Beast, who are both beasts that embody Order. It's no mere coincidence that when your body washes up in the Stranded Graveyard, you awaken directly beneath the crater of a meteor impact. This is to illustrate that your character is alike to the beast sent by the Greater Will, whose fate is to forge Order out of his own Chaotic nature, thereby becoming not just Elden Lord, but becoming the Elden Ring itself.
Just to add: I would say beasts in Elden ring are analogous to servants, vassals of their masters. It’s not all they are as characters, but it is one of their purposes. So many characters have dogs: Ranni, Marika, Radagon, *you* (guaranteed to be given dogs upon receiving the spirit bell unless you miss the event and have to purchase them), Godfrey, Radahn has his horse which is a beast, you could even suggest Rykard subverted the trope and chose to serve *his* beast-everybody has a dog. The Elden Beast is the Greater Will’s dog. That is why it is a beast-things that serve masters are beasts, so it is a beast. Even Godfrey could have been called Marika’s beast at one point. Its not to say that the correlation between beasts and intelligence, and therefore a collective unconscious idea of order for beasts forming as a beast isn’t wrong-I think that is true too. It’s just that beasts undeniably are made to serve their masters in this setting, and there are many beasts and masters, and the greater will being a collective unconscious doesn’t have to exclude it from being capable of commanding a dog.
I'm not sure if this is a well known thing but the "Language of Light" that is mentioned in game also exists in the real world. After some research the "patterns" created by this "language" (it is not linear nor made up of "runes" or letters) look quite similar to the blade design of the Cipher Pata and Coded Sword. The language is also communicated via many mediums but a common one is through signing using our hands which just seems too much like the Two Fingers wiggling around to "communicate" on a more vibrational or non-linear level since they do not speak or write. According to what I found, to use the Language of Light one must be able to tap into a higher frequency in order to receive and also make any communication in this "language" which is not something everyone might be able to do hence why only specific people are able to "read" the Two Fingers or bring order to runes. Food for thought...
So many aspects to consider that it's hard to know where to start! One part that stands out to me is how concepts manifest as physical, or at least magical, forms within the LB. You chalked that up to a consistent trope of Mayazaki's games, but Elden Ring seems to be doing it very deliberately with runes and outer gods for example. It's hard not to take the comparisons to a mind literally as well, but it's hard to draw the line between what is meant to add texture symbolically and what is meant to be taken as axiom.
Damn there is SO much here to unpack. Really great work and I will definitely need to revisit like all your vids. I think you nail the conclusion and DLC predictions too. As for Radagon, his rune's connection to fate is interesting. To me it was always just a lattice, which made sense to me because he is associated with vines. I like your inversion framework, and I think the vines theme plays well here. Vines are basically the inversion of a tree in that they usually need a preexisting structure to thrive. A tree on the other hand usually becomes a structure. To me Radagon's magic, his obsession with sewing and smithing, are all facets of his deep need for structure and inability to create such on his own. How this all connects to fate I have no idea.
I might make more comments later but I think it's also good to note that the Golden Order is kind of like (but not completely like) Christian sects in that the Golden Order seems to just have multiple different cults which perform different practices, much like how different orders or even churchs might worship in different ways, or pay respect to lesser noble figures in hopes of canonizing them as saints. A good example of this is the cult surrounding the minor erdtree, or the cult surrounding the two fingers which seems to have outlived it's usefulness and is not considered heretical by the greater canon.
In my mind the GEQ has been like Hel instead of Ranni and I feel like if she appears in the DLC she'll have the appearance to match (half skeletal like Nashandra and the other half pale skin like the godskins). Sure, one is associated with ice and the other with fire but inspirations are never one to one. The reason I think this is because of the color of the grave violet, which is purple and is supposedly the hue of ghostflame. And Maliketh's destined death becoming purple in version 1.00 during the parry window. Perhaps before the blackflame was drained of color it was a combination of red and blue. Crimson for vigor and cerulean for mind (aka true death).
Dude, this was an amazing video. Loved some of your more "unhinged" musings and ideas. My favorites were the rewriting of timelines and the idea of the inversion of the spirit world. I would love to see From Soft's take on that. Lastly, I would be beside myself with joy if you would do a collab with SmoughTown, Tarnished Archeologist, and Last Protagonist.
Bald dude could be marika, but my money is on the previous version of melina (who, i suppose, could be marika for all we know). Melina's cut item 'miranda's prayer' refers to a "flower crucible", the bald guy is holding a golden flower, and the crucible that he stands on has many flowers around it. Melina, uses this item in morgots boss room, it causes an erdtree looking phantom thing to appear, my take is that its depicting the initial creation of the erdtree. As a recent reddit post points out, The sigil associated with the item is the ancient erdtree sigil, which is both associated with the crucible era and the age of plenty. Melina also casts this spell in her death animation, which associates the spell and the item to self-sacrifice. Melina is also explicitly "burned and bodiless" like the cut giant bald heads. Regardless of if the bald guy is marika, or melina, or both, the Miranda's prayer item, seems like a clue. I liked that you pointed out the potential 'pagan' ties to the statue (due to the golden flower stems/spike appearing like the death ritual spear), and how it can bridge the gap between the previous death culture and the erdtree culture that followed. -- Well, The Miranda's prayer item *also* explicitly denotes its "pagan roots" in its 1.00 description, and given that it seems to depict the initial creation of the erdtree, it also serves to bridge that gap between the two cultures. I think it could be Marika, i do think its curious how Melina ties into all this. She seems to have deep association to the erdtree: she becomes more free as she approaches it, and why her "burned and bodiless" state seems to mirror the state of the erdtree itself, which is both implied to have been burned in the past, and is now in a golden phantom state, only the erdtree entrance remains physical (credit to TA). While i dont remember the exact quote, I think its explicitly stated in melina's diologue, that she died and was resurrected after her burning long ago. Melina, who is almost certainly the "kindling maiden" referenced in the blade of calling, may also be the maiden depicted in the shield of the guilty: said to have been crushed by the "briars of sin" "before being reborn in these lands" -the burning of the erdtree is a "cardinal sin". To strengthen the connection further, there are briars of sin casters leading to the giants forge, where melina eventually burns herself. But also, the crucible the bald man stands on looks slightly thorny (especially the cut statue you linked in the comments) While the maiden in the shield has a hood, and looks very different to the bald guy, i think it could be an inaccurate artistic depiction. This idea of burning to death and being resurrected is repeated with the death ritual spear description, as the holders of the spears were likely burned in ghost flame by the death birds. Also, as you mention, the death ritual spear alternating spikes is pretty much identical the branch or spike thing that holds up the golden flower. While im not sure of what the lore implication are meant to be yet, the mirroring here seems very intentional. I like your idea that this could be marika pulling the helphen out into the physical world and creating the erdtree. Bridging the gap between the pagan culture and the erdtree culture that followed. That idea does seem very promising.
I wonder if the Evergaols remove portions of a person's existence from time in a similar manner to Farah Mazulas current existence. That would explain how Vike was able to cast out the Flame of Frenzy without a needle when no one else was capable of doing so. He cast his infected eye into the gaol and with it exiled the version of himself who was frenzied from time. He remembers that period but the events no longer affect him.
This is amazing. It touches exactly the thing that interests me most about the lore in these games. Even at 1 hour and 40 minutes, I still want more. Thank you. Keep it up.
I am so serious when I say that this is so far the best Elden Ring lore video I have seen! Great job! It is baffling how much information this single video game holds.
There aren't many videos over an hour on youtube that couldn't be improved by trimming down the time, but this video had me hanging onto every word! In fact I wish it were longer, I can tell you are stretching to the very edges of conceptual thought in order to deduce the logic of this world and it only makes me more excited for how the DLC is going to affect these theories. Would love to see a video about the ideas that were too crazy or too incomplete for this video.
I really loved a lot of these ideas, particularly playing with the idea of radagon taking over Marika’s identity. I think it’s very very dilibrate how ambiguous the statement “Radagon is Marika” is, and the fact that npc’s are confused by this revelation. Also LOVED how you related the dualities found throughout the game with how the world may be a conjunction between two worlds (one might even say the lands between). Also I’m with you 100% on godefroy. Waaaaay too obvious that there’s intention to there being a complete carbon copy of one of the most iconic and singular characters in the entire game. Fantastic stuff I think there’s foundation to a lot of what you’re saying.
Ive recently come around to the idea that the lands between themselves are a pseudo fictitious metaphysical space within the world itself influenced by the legends and myths of different lands. It explains why we see duplicates of characters existing at the same time. They're different stories about the same characters. And why we see reflected copies of characters. Certain cultures might not know of morgott and mogh in detail. But maybe a line about the fell omen twins is in their myths so we see omen twins resembling mogh and morgott in theme guarding the capital. It's why Vyke has a character arch and became the closest to becoming elden lord but from the game play he shouldn't have been able to get into the capital with 2 great runes. History, mythology, and religious ideas competing simultaneously in a metaphysical land beyond the countries that hold them. Radagon and Marika resemble the split of IRL Sumarian goddess ishtar splitting into Aphrodite and Ares thru mythological spread and drift. Im sure theres pieces i haven't considered. But this is the easiest way I've found over a year later to square some circles.
what is certain is that this is one of the most interesting and thought provoking videos about elden ring it showcases a lot of things that make elden ring much more special than dark souls games (dark souls as in only dark souls 1-2-3), the amount of care, effort and love that went into this game is truly incomprehensible
Many of the concepts are similar to dark souls 1. In ds1 the laws of reality are also defined as the four lord souls of life, death, light and dark each having their respective opposite similar to the elden ring. They kinda had to retcon a lot of this stuff though as ds2 had a different director and took the series in a different direction with the whole "cycles" thing.
@@Lastninjaxoxoxoxox it isnt even comparable how fully realized and fleshed out things are in dark souls and in elden ring none of the dark souls games, or even all of them combined have the same time, effort and care put into them for one reason or another elden ring was said to be "the closest to thing to my perfect game" by Miyazaki for a reason, this is the game where he actually had the time to truly make this type of game (this type as in DeS DS1-2-3, aka ""souls"")
@@Lastninjaxoxoxoxox Of course some themes are already present but I have to agree with the commentor above, ER is more fleshed out, especially with the fact that it is ONE connected world in one game only. (not speaking about comparing the games directly, that's another topic)
Let's remember that George R. R. Martin wrote the backstory, like the setting and what happened up to the Shattering, or maybe not that far but not too far off. One reason it's more fleshed out is that two great worldbuilding writers worked on it!
1:02:57 I'd argue you CAN see the rune of death in the Farum Azula ER motif. Just below the 'basin' of Marika's rune, you can follow the line straight down, past a downward turned semi-circle (forming the sides of the rune of death), terminating at the apex of the two next circles.
It honestly makes sense that there would be a direct connection between the deathright bird religion and the Golden Order. If Marika is the one to supplant the Twinbird, then it makes sense to me that she might’ve originally been a faithful of it, or at least was steeped in it culturally, thus leading to the Bald Monk
The statue being an abstract representation of the populace would be quite strange… unless, perhaps the statue represents the “birth” of the Greater Will. You mentioned that the Greater Will might be a sort of manifestation of the collective peoples’ desire for order. Perhaps this statue portrays an ambiguous individual scorched and pained by flames, and the golden sprout of the Erdtree rising up in front of it. It could represent the arrival of the Erdtree, of order, in a time of chaos.
See i love this. Im all for metaphor as reality. I love high concept ideas about the structure and mechanisms of the universe. Holding 2 contradictory ideas at once and unifying them is a foundational idea in dialectics. Its all great. But all of this metaphorical mumbo jumbo needs a basis in reality or else its JUST mumbo jumbo. Without some kind of grounding to the logic of the world, its all useless symbols. Its like the primordial chaos, its useless without an order to make sense of it all. So this video has been my favorite one so far on Elden Ring because of your attempt to ground these high concept, seemingly contradictory ideas to the logic of the world and history. You are giving it meaning. Its weird that it took so long for someone to do this. My only gripe is about Godefroy funnily enough lol And its not that your theory is implausible, just that you think theres 0 chance the completely separate character theory is true. Your theory really holds no more water than the other lol in fact, i think the spirit ash gives a very very slight bit of evidence for the separate character theory. But thats miniscule conoared to all the great work youve put into this video. Great job my guy.
Let me put it this way: most people believe that Godefroy = Godrick doesn’t make any sense, therefore it must be dev laziness. My view is that Godefroy = Godrick not only makes sense but is confirmation of the most consistent and widespread pattern in Elden Ring; it doesn’t make sense for it to be anything else. Exactly how that works is up for grabs- but I tried to give some context for explanations in this video by pinning down the metaphysics.
This was a very nice video, I hope that some of these theories gains traction in shadow of the erdtree And thank you for reminding me to read the latest chapter of Berserk!
You know, I'd guess that reality got re-written each time the Elden Ring was reformed. It both changed things retroactively, but still had to contend with a reality that still existed. That would explain why multiple versions of certain characters exist. A version of themselves in the previous Ring cannot NOT exist, so both are made to share the new, layered, existence. So Radagon basically writes himself into Marika, in a way usurping her power, but also having to share it.
You speculate about the Helphen Tree poking out the other side of a mirror world as a shadow Erdtree. After Shadow of the Erdtree, this "wild idea" isn't so wild anymore.
Great video! I have some questions. If Maliketh is Marika's shadow (I mean Carl Jung 's shadow archetype,unconsciousness. ),WHY and HOW is it separated from Marika and become an independent being? (Blaidd is same as Maliketh .) I have no idea about these shadowbound beast.
The Elden Ring is the Trace of the Logos, like the Darksign. Cipher Pata is a pun on 'patter' Coded Sword comes from the fact that sword is a simple anagram of words. Notably, Kalameet in DS1 is a transposition of Kalimat, Arabic for Words. Velka and the Two Fingers are a reference to Pynchon's "V."
If my Bald Marika theory still doesn't have you convinced, check out this unused statue (pre-burned?)
twitter.com/Zlofsky2nd/status/1662245164385959938?s=20
Woah great find. It is Intresting that this figures body looks particularly more female than the bald one.
You made me a believer that it’s Marika. Makes me think is that if she is a spirit tuner then she may have had a greater insight into the mechanics of the world to allow for her ‘inverting’ and that Radagon could be her double that eventually began subsuming her.
I actually think it's a pretty compelling idea! What better way to sell the life-giving properties of your nascent metaphysical life recycler Tree?
The Bald/Marika theory could potentially even accomodate for Radagon: if Marika would have lost her hair to the Flame of Ruin, maybe her hair grew back red because of some curse from the giants or the Flame itself, so that she clensed herself by splitting Radagon from herself, just like speculated by the oldest theory about Ragadon and his relation with the giants (see the Giant's Red Braid item).
Bald Marika Theory 😂
God damnit Crunchy, you’ve done it again. This was on the same level for personal revelations on my end as your Helphen video. Everything after you first said the works “bald monk” was bombshell after bombshell, incredibly fascinating and unique theories. This is one of those videos where I leave seeing Elden Ring in a COMPLETELY different way
“The title of outer gods might imply the existence of inner gods”
FUCK HOW HAVE I NEVER CONSIDERED THAT. It would fit perfectly with the dualistic, push/pull, inner/outer theme of Elden Ring
@@cigman777The gods, who based on their outer origin seems to be interchangeable with sort of cosmic phenomena could exist on an inner plane as well, being expressions of emotions or wills, as proposed in the video with the GW, or as the cut off god of vengeance, since there's a possibility of seeing the cosmos as an expression of the inner self, perhaps the two worlds exist as different planes but intrinsically connected. The cosmos as a collective box for all individual expressions.
The supreme crossover of Crunchy-TarnishedArchaeologist-Smoughtown-NamelessSinger is becoming more and more real each day
Co-lab! Co-lab! Co-lab! We need an "Elden Ring Project" like we got for dark souls. Get all the big lore guys to create the timeline as we see it now. But I do think that should wait till the dlc's are out
Who is nameless singer? I havent heard of them
@@snowsomnus2534 nameless ring is the channel name. I don't know if they are a lore guy or if they just have the ability to access the data files. A lot of their videos are bosses fighting each other.
Just need Vaati to make it canon.
@@CrowsofAcheron oh very cool! Did not know that!
Bald monk identity as Marika burned from sealing giant's flame may be a small detail in grand scheme of things but is an eye opener and breakthrough in my opinion. Makes me appreciate this connection to Melina. Poetic how she is burned doing the opposite - releasing the sealed fire.
The spirit world's watery border getting blurred grants strong framework for understanding the omnipresent spirits.
What if Melina was a part of Marika that Marika sacrificed in sealing the flame, burning her body. Thus the Melina we know is burned and bodyless. To release the flame, she burns away her soul as well, somewhat ironically releasing her from this half-existence to achieve full peace.
I do like the whole 'roots of Erdtree go into spiritual realm to form Helphen' idea a lot.
You should do a crossover episode with T-L-G-T-W since both of you touch on many of the same points regarding the foundational principals that make up the world of Elden Ring.
One of the most cogent looks at Elden Ring on RUclips, thanks for your insight!
The true Lore Master.
What a wonderful video! Thanks for creating this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yooo, the reference to water was also in Constantine as a facilitator to travel between planes.
Mind blown @ "the dark moon being a vortex" revelation I just had and its implications. I never really paid attention to the fact that it really looks vortex-like on my first playthrough. It's very subtle but definitely distinctly there. You can even see stars and galaxies. Damn From Software is just so good with the little nuances and throwing-offs like that haha
I always assumed that outer gods were fighting over our planet and each one who ruled made up it's own laws of the world.
phantom loretta and spirit-godskin duo both take place in arenas with prominent water, further hinting at the water/spirit connection.
I really enjoyed this, thanks!
Hot take: The bald monk is Midra, Lord of Frenzied Flame. The held branches are the Greatsword of Damnation, he has the burns, burning branches at the base, and the "sprout" is the Frenzied Flame. Also explains why there were the burning heads of him.
13:41 In regard to how the trailer claims that the Elden Ring commanded the stars, I think a better descriptor is that it commanded fate. The stars and fate are inextricably linked in the game. It is mentioned multiple time that before the Age of The Erdtree that the astrologers read and predicted fate in the stars, but with the rise of the Greater Will that this was made obsolete.
A lot of people like to say that because of Japanese translations, the Greater Will is not an outer god, but there was clearly a time before it. There was life before the greater will, and there was fate before the greater will. It simply ordered it into something new. It asserted its will over the old, it’s Greater Will if you would.
A note about translation of the Roderika quotation that may be relevant. In Japanese, she says: "...霊なる不死性が、律の元でどのようにあり." Which I would read as: "[I understand] how, by means of the foundations of order [律の元], the immortal essence that becomes spirit exists" Notably, the term often used in the game for "Golden Order" [黄金律] is not used here; the character meaning "golden" [黄金] doesn't appear here at all, but instead the more generic "foundation of order" [律の元] (alternatively: the "origin of order" or "source of order").
A quick search shows that "律の元" is not used anywhere else in the game. What about just "order", 律? As far as I can tell, that is used when and /only/ when referring to what gets translated as "Order"---as in, the Golden Order, the Order that Ranni will install ("mine Order"), the new Orders referred to in the mending runes, the Order that the Frenzy Flame does away with, etc. Roderika herself says that, in the Dung Eater's curse, she hears a "fearsome Order" [律]. It never gets used to talk about the primeval current, or the death rite birds, etc.
It could be that in using "律," Roderika means to be referring to the Golden Order specifically. Now, Roderika never explicitly says "Golden order" once in the game. Since Japanese lacks a definite article, perhaps she should be read as saying "foundations of /the/ order," contextually understood to refer to the currently extant order (i.e. the Golden Order). I'll leave it to more fluent speakers to judge whether this is a natural reading.
But what I want to suggest is that Roderika's quotation can be read as saying: she understands how spirits exist, as flowing from the foundations or sources of Order itself, whether that be the Golden Order, the Dung Eater's Order, or whatever. We have the idea of these Orders being permutations of some set of underlying elements (perhaps with removal). Maybe there are deeper principles that hold in /any/ Order whatsoever, and it is those that Roderika is referring to. In that case, the Golden Order wouldn't be uniquely responsible for immortal essences taking on the form of spirits; it would flow from deeper cosmological sources. Just a thought.
Fantastic comment, thank you for the thoroughness of this idea.
I cannot wait to hear you talk about the DLC.
I think that when you look at the scadutree, it is being strangled by the helphen
Stars are also linked to fate, so the Elden Ring commanding the stars could mean it has some control on fate
1:02:43 the rune of death never shows up in your inventory. It just goes straight into Merika's gut.
From "who is queen Marika" to "the structure of reality" in a year and a half 😂😂😂
1:21:06 have you ever considered that the shattering could possibly be related to Rykard being eaten by the snake? Just because there is a shaking associated with the snake and ragnarok in Norse mythology
Why are we assuming 'beasts' have no consciousness? They react to pain and love, they have their own personalities and behave in every way a conscious creature would. To me it seems more likely they did have consciousness but it wasn't AS ordered and therefore there was room for the elden ring/beast to bring evolution/intelligence/civilization rather than consciousness.
Very hubristic to think that somehow humans are the very first thing ever to be conscious.
Alot to take in and a bit overwhelming.
What my mind made from it is that every one mind is different and complicated. And if you would lay out all minds of eveyone on some sort of canvas then there would be overlap in ways of thinking feelings etc. Now I imagine the greater will being the dominant one and the outer gods are just other overlaps that are of significance. The fun thing is that these overlaps can manifest in the world of elden ring in physical form. And that all overlaps are flawed in some way. The golden order has no death witch is nice as a tought but turns out more as a curse. Rot is stagnation. Frenzy madness.
Maybe if all runes would be combined in one elden ring that the world of elden ring would be whole again 🤔
I did not pick up on the 2 of the same thing. I just thought it was re using assets for programming purposes. But its probably a yin yang thing then also. A form of inbalance Verry interesting.
Thanks for the video
I can't express how much I enjoyed this.
Hey Crunchy, regarding the DLC, I think the DLC will have an Event like Bloodborne where the Blood Moon in Bloodborne was always there, but thanks to us, we remove the Veil that keeps the Blood Moon hidden which was Rom, revealing the true reality around us. And since the Erdtree is dying perhaps that Great Tree in the DLC Picture that strangles the Erdtree like a (Snake) is the true reality where the Erdtrees Life Essence seeps out. Revealing to us that theres a massive second Tree that kills the Erdtree.
(Excuse my bad english please).
doesnt that monk statue kinda look like that one guy with the sword in his head in the shadow of the erdtree dlc trailer or is it just me?
I have to ask, because I haven't been following Berserk for years now, but was the tree from Elden Ring inspired by the one from Berserk or vice versa?
Because Berserk gets thrown around alot in ER, and even though I am very familiar with the Manga, I think that the lore, the dynamics in particular, are very much more like a GRRM piece of writing. In fact there are plenty of ASOIAF influences in there.
If I have to choose which of these two influenced ER most, I'd say GRRM's work more so (MUCH MUCH MORE SO) than Kentaro Miura's (RIP).
Yes, I am aware that it had a huge influence on Dark Souls, but I think it's more of an aesthetics thing. The "plot" to this game is so Targaryen-esque I literally don't even know where to begin the comparison.
Also, selfcest.... lol
Berserk’s Spiral Tree was before ER- but both are drawing from things like Yggdrasil, JRRT’s Telperion & Laurelin, the Edenic trees, etc. Inspiration isn’t necessarily a simple linear thing.
The most poetic game of Fromes
also what about the Uld palace ruins? i dont think thats a coincidence its named that and some of it is underground and above ground. im curious about that.
The Golden Order's one true god is Merica...
If only yh finger maidens can level up yh tarnished, then how does Melena leave the power to turn runes into strength with us when she A: leaves us in th capital, or B: is burned to awaken the fire of ruin?
Margit is always susceptible to statuses, but the Mohg below Leyndell is immune to everything. Mohg the Omen doesn't bleed or freeze, and can't be inflicted with poison or rot. This really makes that version of Mohg seem illusory to me. He also disappears into golden particles, which the Lord of Blood does not, and just beyond him lies the golden barrier blocking the drop to the 3 Fingers until we defeat Morgott. To me, this says an illusion of Mohg was placed there to deter anyone seeking to walk the chaotic path. One could easily imagine that Mohg was a frightful presence while he stalked the depths beneath Leyndell, and enabling the belief that he still lurks down there could be an effective deterrent before even serving as a physical guardian.
the way every element of this games writing seems to never concretely resolve and just flows back in on itself and relate to every other element is absolutely fascinating, ive never seen anything like it. a huge amount of effort was made to have it be this way when it would have been so much easier to give the various threads clean thematic or narrative resolutions (which is even what previous fromsoft games did imo, even if they were obscured). it's a truly bizzare and unique way to write a story
Its david lynchian
It's like the narrative is in circles like the elden ring itself
Miyazaki has said he grew up reading fantasy in English, but his English wasn’t perfect, so he always felt the plot was a little obscure to him, and he tries to recreate that feeling for the player in his games.
I’m glad someone’s brought up the overwhelming theme of duality within literally every single concept in this game
PATTERN RECOGNITION MODE IS FROTHING BEASTMEN = FAILINGS OF MASCULINITY RELATING TO FAITH AND NOX IS THE FAITH OF FEMININITY RELATING TO FAITH/GOD/WHATEVER AND IT ILLUSTRATES THE NECESSITY OF DUALITY AND ILLUSTRATES WHAT GOD OR OUR CREATOR IS TRYING TO SHOW US WHICH IS THE BEAUTY AND NECESSITY OF CHAOS AND ORDER
@@valentai_777 Especially the players character .Fia's vanity allows the player to change they're origin and gender .
@@swordmasterkuo6419their*, troglodyte
My cousin found this video and linked it in a Discord chat him, myself, and a bunch of our friends are in. We are huge From fans and we all watched this video late at night 2 days ago at the same time and have been discussing it for the last several days.
Keep this kind of content coming. ❤
Awesome! I’d love to hear anything you guys came up with!
What an absolute banger of a video. Probably the most impressive ER lore video I've seen yet.
Could not agree more!
Thank you 🙏
The Fell Twins. I just realized something. Omens in Elden Ring occupy an existential binary in that their horns either ARE or are NOT excised depending on a single variable: Whether they are highborn or lowborn. Or at least, it is established that there is a causal relationship between Morgott and Mohg being Marika's and Godfrey's children, and not having had their horns excised. (I don't remember where it's said, though...) So, in the event that there are any multiverse shenanigans going on, the Fell Twins could be M&M if they'd been born into a different social class.
Well...since this is a metaphysical discussion, the 'multiverse' you propose does not actually accommodate your interpretation. Even in a multiverse scenario, the existence of Mogh and Margott are dependent on them being the children of Marika, a high-born. They couldn't be otherwise and still maintain their essence. That is, if you are taking an essentialist view, which you must given the kind of reasoning you have presented then they could not 'exist' by any other means. Their existence depends upon the genetic or progenerative essence of their parents, who happen to be high-born. It could not be otherwise and these two somehow be thought to exist otherwise. They would be built from separate, 'low-born' essence. This is a very typical philosophical point of inquiry regarding identity. If you were born from different parents, 'you' simply could not be 'you'. You would be born from a separate 'essence', a separate DNA. You would be predisposed to encounter reality in an entirely different way. The nature and happenstance of their lives are what are in question under this 'multiverse' interpretation you are suggesting. But their birth nature is inherently dependent on their parents. Like, if they had been born of different parents, they simply wouldn't be 'morgott' or 'mogh'. They would be different entities, born of different essences. They would be wholly separate beings. Your metaphysical understanding of 'multiverse' scenarios is simply misbegotten.
I got a degree in philosophy, so trust I am more than prepared to discuss metaphysics more. I am not trying to insult anyone.
Put another way, had Marika not attained her own 'highly status', then the factors that led to the eventual existence of margott and mogh would have not occurred. There isn't a multiverse that is possible where they could be 'low-born'. Their existence is dependent on Marika reaching her status and partnering with Godfrey. It is a logical fallacy to suggest otherwise. In this multi-verse scenario, the only two options are for them to be either 'high-born' or 'non-existent'. Their existence is dependent upon certain facts within the history of Elden Ring which your suggestion defies. Even though I totally respect the sentiment of what you are saying.
Multiverse scenarios are structural narratives wherein certain aspects of causation must be met, while others can remain in flux. Aspects of identity and their dependence on genetic material (in our reality) or essences (one way to interpret elden ring) are prerequisite determinations.
If you take away certain prerequisite conditions, then certain outcomes are simply barred. Children being born and their identities is intrinsically tied to a very specific spatio-temporal distinction. That is. The conditions of the birth of a given entity cannot be changed within a multiverse scenario. That detail.must remain intact, or else the entitiy described will not be the same. Listen. If Marika did a bunch of K or G after an erd tree rageer right before she has margott or mogh, it would utterly change them in such a way they would be intrinsically different from the mogh who came to be. Yes. But what is the scenario under which Marika begets a child with Godfrey such that their omen child would be 'low-born'.
Sorry i'm nerding out, y'all . I mean no harm.
@@librarian4life thanks for taking the time to respond to this as thoroughly as you did. I appreciate the insight.
@logancade342 thank you!! Haha I was tipsy at the time after a nice dinner and just excited to talk metaphysics.
I feel a good counter-argument for what I was saying is that in a very strict essentialist metaphysical reality, one could adequately argue that the essence of an individual is 'strictly' the essence of the individual. That is to say, the essence of an individual exists in a predetermined manner. With Erdtree resurrection in mind, there is certainly an argument to be made there. However, with that in mind we are logically drawn to how such an essence was predetermined to exist
Along this line of thinking, one counter to this counter is that it would require entities capable of creating such a reality where souls could be predetermined to such a degree that matters of causality, like so many details of basic causality, somehow don't really factor into someone's essence. Seemingly, despite David Hume's "The Problem of Induction", there IS a 'law' of causality in the game. So
..but let's not digress. For an example, if Mogh's 'soul' or 'essence' somehow existed beyond the scope of various factors of causality's effects on his birth. Then, that claim presupposes there would be entities of magnitude beyond the Elden Beast. Something or some force would have set up the metaphysics of the universe such that distinct, individual essences of a 'person' both pre-exist, as well as are (seemingly absolutely) predetermined before their birth. This may be anti-thetical to science, not fantasy.. and!! Even looking at real-world philosophy in Plato's concepts of 'ideal forms', and the fact within the fiction we have the 'Elden Ring', itself, which did exist prior to the Elden Beast and seems to reflect some kind of 'order'.This is a really fun point of inquiry you brought up!!! You touched upon something so central to the ENTIRE mystery. And that is so cool.
Your multiverse theory is not outside the realm of possibility. I guess one further thing I think about is the nature of 'outer gods' (and perhaps if we are familiar with how translations seem to attribute the language surrounding the discussion of 'outer gods' to 'kami', or spirits with relation to certain aspects nature (here used synonymously with 'reality'), it seems to suggest competing entities of similar magnitude, at least in comparison to the Elden Beast--but not the 'Order'...which (by its name and lore) seems to suggest some kind of predetermined serious essences, right??
There is definitely more room to explore, and thankfully we will have the dlc very soon!!!! If you can't tell, I have really enjoyed your thoughts and have gone off the deep end lolol
Holy shit, if the sun was the 'golden star' and was summoned into being after the world already existed, that would explain why there are so many creatures and factions that are so aligned with night and the moon, and the multiple moons for that matter. This could finally tie the Nox to those Ancestral Followers who are all over their zones - Ancestral Followers might represent those early hominids that existed when the world was eternal night, and shunned the beastmen's sun, and later evolved into the night-worshipping Nox.
Given that Fingers communicated in a cipher of light and another word for 'cipher' is 'code' (source: cipher pata), gave me an impression that runes are literally a programming code of this world; i.e. Marika is admin-level user who hacked the root / source code to remove Rune of Death and then tried to format the whole system (and Radagon did a hasty patch and thus bricked the world in an endless stagnation) and what we absorb as runes is just a raw source code of the other beings; Fingermaidens are authorized under Fingers sub-programmers (and Melina is unauthorized such sub-programmer) who can integrate this raw other code into our code thus making us stronger.
Just wondering, what did radagon do the bricked the world into stagnation? I'd be very grateful for any elaboration!
@@montyparata3507The way I see it, Marika tried to crash the system (by destroying Elden Ring) and Radagon immediately tried to fix it (you can see it in both in the trailer where Marika immediately changes to Radagon and in a cutscene where first strike of the hammer is Marika but second, if you look closely, is Radagon; some item descriptions support it as well). The result of it, in my opinion, is that the whole system is 'bricked' by Radagon's effort - not fixed (as the Elden Ring still broken) but also not destroyed fully as Marika intended. Radagon, being a stauch Golden Order fundamentalist, put all his being into preserving the world order where Golden Order is still a dominating power but his efforts along (even after he manifested the trellis / crosshatch Rune to support and protect the broken Elden Ring - this is the one preventing us from entering the Erdtree) were not entirely successful.
Continuing the code/program analogy: Imagine a very hasty, barely functional Operating System patch to juuuuuuuuuust prevent the computer from total crashing but now, out of all the programs, you can only run Calculator and even this, very very slowly.
Basically a medieval fantasy matrix
@@a.r.h9919 Sort of, but more reality hacking than living in specifically created simulation, IMHO. But certainly can be seen as matrix, sure.
Season 3 Digimon vibes
Great video as always.
I think a very under explored area of the games lore is how invasions and phantoms work. We know they are cannon and not just some multi player feature, we are invaded in offline mode. There are also items like the 'Tarnished's Furled Finger" that confirm that the tarnished are helping one another across worlds.
The tarnished have been coming to The Lands Between for a very long time, since the Shattering but it seems in drips and drabs, not all at once. Perhaps when the tarnished died outside the lands between they should go to the spirit world but since that world was pulled into the lands between, it created some kind of bridge for us to get to the lands between and we wake up resurrected.
It appears like each tarnished have their own world (as does each player) and can alter their own world as they see fit. These worlds have their own time lines since the shattering. Maybe there was one world before the shattering, but afterwards many worlds splintered off, this is how Vyke obtained two great runes yet we see no bosses that have been killed. Perhaps one was Godefroy. I think all the clones and phantom versions of characters are in a pre shattering state (please correct me if I am wrong).
In the final boss fight with the Elden Beast, we see a multitude of Erdtrees, perhaps each has their own world and own order. Marika split the world so we forge our own in the way we best see fit and bring some form of balance to the multiverse.
8:49 Another interpretation is that the "Golden star" itself became the Elden Ring, not the elden beast.
Which would explain why the Elden Ring still exists after killing the Elden Beast
@@BastosFC2 i still thinks it means the beast itself became the elden ring i’d be curious to see how a japanese player would interpret that item description on the japanese text. It would be interesting if the sentence functionally worked with either interpretation in both languages
This is one of the most impressive pieces of scholarly game study ever. Mindbending eye for detail, CLOSE reading with so much clarity. Not only that, but you're finding new interpretations that I've never heard before. You'd think that 18 months post release, all would be revealed, right? Miyazaki and From are obscenely brilliant, and clearly so are you
Thank you, that’s very kind 🙏
I think the idea about time and history being altered both in the past and the future alike, the idea about the sun being the golden star that's mentioned in item descriptions, as well as the idea about the mirror realities reflected in water and pulled through into the lands between from the spirit world by marika, will each end up on the same level of an "it was right in front of us all along, how did we not see it" grade theory as the theory from your earlier video about the Greater Will being a manifestation or accumulation of the collective will of the universe. They'll each end up being one of those "no duh" ideas that fit so well and seem so painfully obvious in retrospect that people wonder why it took so long for someone to come up with them.
It took so long because people are too focused on item descriptions and "lore" being a collection of plot points. When Miyazaki talks about the lore of his games he always remains a lot more metaphorical and symbolic, focusing on grander concepts. I believe there is a concrete reality underlying all of his works but he clearly designed them with their ambiguities in mind. The ideas in this video sound a lot more like what Miyazaki would actually imagine his world to be.
@@FreestateofOkondor agreed. Back when I first played Bloodborne, a lot of my lore theorizing focused on the mechanics and logistics of the world, and while I still find that stuff interesting, I'm glad that I've grown closer to this kind of discussion instead as times gone on.
@@FreestateofOkondor its mythology that fromsoft tells.
Making an open world game basically requires you to repeat content it's unavoidable with games this large. I'm an absolute self admitting Miyazaki dick rider. Did he choose to make an open world souls game because it would be the most logical way to explore the concepts of multiplicity and duality. It's such a natural fit because most everything is gonna need repurposed at some point might as well have it fit so naturally into story context. I've seen comments calling bullshit on you justifying godefroy but I'm with you on that Miyazaki wounldnt let that slide as just eh we need another fight right here.
That bald monk theory is incredibly compelling and it explains so much I just want to believe it. If a version of it doesn't end up being true after the dlc enlightens us a bit ngl I'm gonna be a bit disappointed. Also absolutely crazy that the reuse of assets and enemies is repurposed as a story telling device only with from soft do you get that kind of shit.
Majora's Mask did the reused asset thing pretty damn well, especially considering they only had a year to make it.
now it seems like the bald monk may be the boss in the dlc trailer seeming to pull a tree out of its own body
The monk is melina whe she was burned, that makes much more sense and ties the relationship with marika
I love this form of lore video, touching on concepts of the world that make it what it is, rather than a specific character or questline. This is absolutely incredible!
Indeed. So many discussions about specific crap when we don't even understand basic things such as 'the lands between what exactly?' or 'why did marika shatter the elden ring, and what exactly does this imply?' .
He offers some answers in the video and while I don't agree with a lot of it it's still exactly the type of discussion we should be having primarily, rather than seeing if we can piece together the life story of boggart in the greatest of detail.
Thanks! I had fun thinking about these things.
You mentioned that most beings in the lands between gained their godlike power through death, such as Godwin, Ranni, Melania ect...
That would explain one of Marikas motives for removing destined death from the Elden Ring, so that none might gain the power to usurp her reign as the 'Eternal' god.
Very interesting stuff, the layers keep peeling away to reveal more insights and revelations!
FINALLY! I saw you in rata's livechat today and had to resist the urge to ask when we were finally gonna see something new, didn't expect it'd be tonight itself! 🥳
I cant express how mind bogglingly genius the "Marika pulled the reflective worlds of life and death into eachother" theory is!!!💗💞💖💕
It totally explains the game's obsession with duality. Now all of the reflected concepts have to reckon with eachother head-on instead of being part of a bigger cycle!
Your theory about water being the reflection point makes a lot of sense as it explains the Tibia Mariners, they literally ferry you to the other side
Great video, very insightful. Your only idea that I don't quite agree with is that the Erd Tree is the Helphen Tree. I think that Marika replaced the Helphen Tree with the Erd Tree, which she was able to do by cutting off the world of the living from the spirit world by removing the rune of death. When she did that she was able to redirect the cycle of souls to the Erd Tree because they had nowhere else to go, leaving the Helphen Tree to starve. This starving/dead Helphen Tree is the tree that we see in the Shadow of the Erd Tree graphic.
Great theory!!!
Radagon statue at bellum also has the same roots as the bald guy statue + his talisman depicts the same flowers as on the statue
Love the long-form deep dives sir Crunchy!
Thank you!
Melina calls herself burned and bodiless. What if she's the monk? Not Marika's first daughter but Marika's initial form, a sort of proto-god, or the woman she was before she became a god and a vessel for the Elden Ring, sacrificed to end the age of the crucible.
You said that gaining power requires a death.
I think this is very possible. Perhaps Miranda burned herself to be reborn in the new interstice.
@@CrunchyVideos oh man I hadn't even made THAT connection but you right. That's another M lady name that fits the profile. I feel like we're just missing this one chunk of story that would make everything suddenly snap into place.
My dude, you took your “hair burning off” theory and actually presented it as something plausible and coherent. Absolute madlad 👏
1:19:49 what u said about guanq’s building having the same architecture as Farum Azula… The grace by the bridge is named Farum Greatbridge. Coincidence? Also the water fall spanning between Caelid and Mtn tops is usually what it looks like when a massive amount of earth is displaced under water.
This was an amazing video. I always know a crunchy upload is gonna be a banger. Food for thought. Have you heard of the inca cosmological concept of the "Pacha". It is a quechua word that roughly translates to "space-time". It describes the world as being formed of different realms, every realm also connected to its unique time. As If all things were a place a time(it also mentions a world above, below, and a land between. Additionally, speaking on thoughts having power in the lands between, I always found it interesting that malenia's healing ability was powered by her determination. Her very will to stave off the rot, yet when hitting the player, an actual effect can be seen, and magical siphoning of life. It's as if ones will/determination/dream, the things they fight in futility that defines them. Like beings being defined by their greatest fears. Maybe elden lord(ambitions, thoughts, principles) is a reflection of that? Idk just some thoughts that have been brewing in my mind.
Elden Ring seems to draw a ton of inspiration from Richard Wagner's "Der Ring des Nibelungen", also the inspiration to LoTR.
Magic Rings and runic power, lots of parallels to Celtic and Norse mythology, I'll bet this is somehow a reference
More likely all three draw from the Norse Eddas. But Mad Tongue Alberich is a pretty direct reference to the antagonist of the ring cycle.
I really love the study of video game cosmology. Games like Elden Ring, Dark Souls, and the Elder Scrolls all have such interesting universes that operate on different rules than our own.
Great video, deserves more views for sure. Algorithm bless thee.
Perhaps the best example of sacrifice and death being a means to acquire power is found in us, the Tarnished; by dying and being reborn in the Lands Between, we enter a system wherein we can both collect runes and and power through leveling up, as well as be revived through grace, giving us both limitless potential and effective immortality. Weare hence able to become more powerful than and defeat every enemy we face, including those who have also sacrificed for power (Rykard, Malenia, Fire Giant, etc.).
Amazing video, I'm going to watch it again which I never do with lore videos. This is honestly one of the best lore videos for any Fromsoft game and is the best for Elden Ring in my opinion. The metaphysical reality of these games is way way too under explored in my view, especially Dark Souls, the laws of reality are just as odd in Dark Souls as in Elden Ring I feel. I think Miyazaki might feel people have a blind spot on this too, since he keeps putting "arch trees", in all of the Dark Souls games, Bloodborne and Elden Ring, it just might be too abstract to solve what they really mean, and I don't think it's just a visual motif.
I’m going to comment on runes/grace. Grace is something like magic life juice, I think most would agree on that. Runes are grace that defines, or are, an individual entity. People and other living critters are manifestations of permanently bound runes. Permanently bound runes are sort of like the core of an entity, the core is what is reborn or resurrected. Not all runes are part of the permanent collective, these runes can be separated by stronger collectives and or be integrated by a permanent collective. Strong collective entities can eventually make Great Runes of themselves by permanently integrating large amounts of runes. The ability to permanently bind free runes to collective is a rare trait/knowledge.
We collect the free runes when we defeat enemies and their core must start again. When we defeat a shard bearer we get both runes and a Great Rune. Why? We are told that the demigods went wacko because of the power of the Great Runes they possess. The demigods don’t possess Great Runes, the Great possess the demigods and feed on their runes.
It could be that Elden Ring was a rune entity that bound a bunch of others to its core, the shattering was a liberation. Maybe the removal of Destined Death broke the binding. Or the Elden Ring was something like a consentual congress.
It may be that the process of becoming a great rune involves separating from flesh. This process is what leads to the mending runes we see.
Or whatever..
Your close reading is absolutely fantastic, especially how systematic you are. The evolution of these very academic approaches to game analysis is incredibly pleasurable and exciting to observe
I don't know how this is the first video of yours I've watched with how many lore videos I binge, but this was great. Subbed right away and definitely going through all your previous ones too.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Highly, HIGHLY recommend the Alchemy one. It's my favorite of all Elden Ring lore videos.
About the despair of the eternal city: I think the Nox were guiding stars using their moon as a portal when they were above ground (like Ranni does in the ending) but when they were banished underground they lost their culture of the stars so they opened a void portal (in their despair) as an alternative and they accidentally summoned the Astel.
The part where you talk about the great runes makes me wonder about the fact that marika’s great rune was supposedly supposed to be called the rune of life. Which makes sense for there being a rune of death and a rune of life (it’s the one at the top that looks like a rune arc with the line through it, slightly different from the rune of death.) and while it was cut from the description of the place it’s name appeared, I assume this is still canon because it’s not like it’s something so random it won’t make sense with the vision of the overall story, it still works for the story and actually makes more sense as to why marika’s order is focused on life.
Great work on this one, Crunchy!
I just wanted to briefly address the legend described by Elden Stars. Everyone reads it as the origin of the Elden Beast, which is certainly not untrue, but I think this misses the real point of the story, which is to metaphorically describe the rise of the Elden Lord. Godfrey, Radagon and the player all began as mere warriors (beasts) who embody the primal force of chaos, symbolized by Radagon's red hair and Godfrey's cursed blood (which flows through your veins as well). By fighting on behalf of a god and an order, a warrior becomes a champion, and a champion who reconciles and unifies the forces of Order and Chaos within himself can become Elden Lord. We see this unification of Order and Chaos in Godfrey's design, in the unification of the warrior and the noble beast. Radagon became one with the Golden Order to such an extent that he literally became Queen Marika, and at the end of the game, your marital union with Marika or Ranni represents you (Chaos) becoming one with Order. Of course, you also see this alchemical synthesis in the individual figures of Serosh and Elden Beast, who are both beasts that embody Order.
It's no mere coincidence that when your body washes up in the Stranded Graveyard, you awaken directly beneath the crater of a meteor impact. This is to illustrate that your character is alike to the beast sent by the Greater Will, whose fate is to forge Order out of his own Chaotic nature, thereby becoming not just Elden Lord, but becoming the Elden Ring itself.
Just to add: I would say beasts in Elden ring are analogous to servants, vassals of their masters. It’s not all they are as characters, but it is one of their purposes. So many characters have dogs: Ranni, Marika, Radagon, *you* (guaranteed to be given dogs upon receiving the spirit bell unless you miss the event and have to purchase them), Godfrey, Radahn has his horse which is a beast, you could even suggest Rykard subverted the trope and chose to serve *his* beast-everybody has a dog.
The Elden Beast is the Greater Will’s dog. That is why it is a beast-things that serve masters are beasts, so it is a beast. Even Godfrey could have been called Marika’s beast at one point.
Its not to say that the correlation between beasts and intelligence, and therefore a collective unconscious idea of order for beasts forming as a beast isn’t wrong-I think that is true too. It’s just that beasts undeniably are made to serve their masters in this setting, and there are many beasts and masters, and the greater will being a collective unconscious doesn’t have to exclude it from being capable of commanding a dog.
I'm not sure if this is a well known thing but the "Language of Light" that is mentioned in game also exists in the real world. After some research the "patterns" created by this "language" (it is not linear nor made up of "runes" or letters) look quite similar to the blade design of the Cipher Pata and Coded Sword. The language is also communicated via many mediums but a common one is through signing using our hands which just seems too much like the Two Fingers wiggling around to "communicate" on a more vibrational or non-linear level since they do not speak or write. According to what I found, to use the Language of Light one must be able to tap into a higher frequency in order to receive and also make any communication in this "language" which is not something everyone might be able to do hence why only specific people are able to "read" the Two Fingers or bring order to runes. Food for thought...
So many aspects to consider that it's hard to know where to start! One part that stands out to me is how concepts manifest as physical, or at least magical, forms within the LB. You chalked that up to a consistent trope of Mayazaki's games, but Elden Ring seems to be doing it very deliberately with runes and outer gods for example. It's hard not to take the comparisons to a mind literally as well, but it's hard to draw the line between what is meant to add texture symbolically and what is meant to be taken as axiom.
Damn there is SO much here to unpack. Really great work and I will definitely need to revisit like all your vids. I think you nail the conclusion and DLC predictions too.
As for Radagon, his rune's connection to fate is interesting. To me it was always just a lattice, which made sense to me because he is associated with vines. I like your inversion framework, and I think the vines theme plays well here. Vines are basically the inversion of a tree in that they usually need a preexisting structure to thrive. A tree on the other hand usually becomes a structure. To me Radagon's magic, his obsession with sewing and smithing, are all facets of his deep need for structure and inability to create such on his own. How this all connects to fate I have no idea.
I might make more comments later but I think it's also good to note that the Golden Order is kind of like (but not completely like) Christian sects in that the Golden Order seems to just have multiple different cults which perform different practices, much like how different orders or even churchs might worship in different ways, or pay respect to lesser noble figures in hopes of canonizing them as saints. A good example of this is the cult surrounding the minor erdtree, or the cult surrounding the two fingers which seems to have outlived it's usefulness and is not considered heretical by the greater canon.
In my mind the GEQ has been like Hel instead of Ranni and I feel like if she appears in the DLC she'll have the appearance to match (half skeletal like Nashandra and the other half pale skin like the godskins). Sure, one is associated with ice and the other with fire but inspirations are never one to one. The reason I think this is because of the color of the grave violet, which is purple and is supposedly the hue of ghostflame. And Maliketh's destined death becoming purple in version 1.00 during the parry window. Perhaps before the blackflame was drained of color it was a combination of red and blue. Crimson for vigor and cerulean for mind (aka true death).
Dude, this was an amazing video. Loved some of your more "unhinged" musings and ideas. My favorites were the rewriting of timelines and the idea of the inversion of the spirit world. I would love to see From Soft's take on that.
Lastly, I would be beside myself with joy if you would do a collab with SmoughTown, Tarnished Archeologist, and Last Protagonist.
Bald dude could be marika, but my money is on the previous version of melina (who, i suppose, could be marika for all we know).
Melina's cut item 'miranda's prayer' refers to a "flower crucible", the bald guy is holding a golden flower, and the crucible that he stands on has many flowers around it. Melina, uses this item in morgots boss room, it causes an erdtree looking phantom thing to appear, my take is that its depicting the initial creation of the erdtree. As a recent reddit post points out, The sigil associated with the item is the ancient erdtree sigil, which is both associated with the crucible era and the age of plenty. Melina also casts this spell in her death animation, which associates the spell and the item to self-sacrifice. Melina is also explicitly "burned and bodiless" like the cut giant bald heads.
Regardless of if the bald guy is marika, or melina, or both, the Miranda's prayer item, seems like a clue. I liked that you pointed out the potential 'pagan' ties to the statue (due to the golden flower stems/spike appearing like the death ritual spear), and how it can bridge the gap between the previous death culture and the erdtree culture that followed. -- Well, The Miranda's prayer item *also* explicitly denotes its "pagan roots" in its 1.00 description, and given that it seems to depict the initial creation of the erdtree, it also serves to bridge that gap between the two cultures.
I think it could be Marika, i do think its curious how Melina ties into all this. She seems to have deep association to the erdtree: she becomes more free as she approaches it, and why her "burned and bodiless" state seems to mirror the state of the erdtree itself, which is both implied to have been burned in the past, and is now in a golden phantom state, only the erdtree entrance remains physical (credit to TA).
While i dont remember the exact quote, I think its explicitly stated in melina's diologue, that she died and was resurrected after her burning long ago. Melina, who is almost certainly the "kindling maiden" referenced in the blade of calling, may also be the maiden depicted in the shield of the guilty: said to have been crushed by the "briars of sin" "before being reborn in these lands" -the burning of the erdtree is a "cardinal sin". To strengthen the connection further, there are briars of sin casters leading to the giants forge, where melina eventually burns herself. But also, the crucible the bald man stands on looks slightly thorny (especially the cut statue you linked in the comments)
While the maiden in the shield has a hood, and looks very different to the bald guy, i think it could be an inaccurate artistic depiction.
This idea of burning to death and being resurrected is repeated with the death ritual spear description, as the holders of the spears were likely burned in ghost flame by the death birds. Also, as you mention, the death ritual spear alternating spikes is pretty much identical the branch or spike thing that holds up the golden flower.
While im not sure of what the lore implication are meant to be yet, the mirroring here seems very intentional. I like your idea that this could be marika pulling the helphen out into the physical world and creating the erdtree. Bridging the gap between the pagan culture and the erdtree culture that followed. That idea does seem very promising.
Jesus this is good stuff
I wonder if the Evergaols remove portions of a person's existence from time in a similar manner to Farah Mazulas current existence. That would explain how Vike was able to cast out the Flame of Frenzy without a needle when no one else was capable of doing so. He cast his infected eye into the gaol and with it exiled the version of himself who was frenzied from time. He remembers that period but the events no longer affect him.
This is amazing. It touches exactly the thing that interests me most about the lore in these games. Even at 1 hour and 40 minutes, I still want more. Thank you. Keep it up.
I am so serious when I say that this is so far the best Elden Ring lore video I have seen! Great job! It is baffling how much information this single video game holds.
Very interesting conclusion. I'll need to stew on that one for a bit because it's something I'd not considered.
There aren't many videos over an hour on youtube that couldn't be improved by trimming down the time, but this video had me hanging onto every word!
In fact I wish it were longer, I can tell you are stretching to the very edges of conceptual thought in order to deduce the logic of this world and it only makes me more excited for how the DLC is going to affect these theories.
Would love to see a video about the ideas that were too crazy or too incomplete for this video.
I really loved a lot of these ideas, particularly playing with the idea of radagon taking over Marika’s identity. I think it’s very very dilibrate how ambiguous the statement “Radagon is Marika” is, and the fact that npc’s are confused by this revelation. Also LOVED how you related the dualities found throughout the game with how the world may be a conjunction between two worlds (one might even say the lands between). Also I’m with you 100% on godefroy. Waaaaay too obvious that there’s intention to there being a complete carbon copy of one of the most iconic and singular characters in the entire game. Fantastic stuff I think there’s foundation to a lot of what you’re saying.
Ive recently come around to the idea that the lands between themselves are a pseudo fictitious metaphysical space within the world itself influenced by the legends and myths of different lands.
It explains why we see duplicates of characters existing at the same time. They're different stories about the same characters. And why we see reflected copies of characters. Certain cultures might not know of morgott and mogh in detail. But maybe a line about the fell omen twins is in their myths so we see omen twins resembling mogh and morgott in theme guarding the capital.
It's why Vyke has a character arch and became the closest to becoming elden lord but from the game play he shouldn't have been able to get into the capital with 2 great runes.
History, mythology, and religious ideas competing simultaneously in a metaphysical land beyond the countries that hold them. Radagon and Marika resemble the split of IRL Sumarian goddess ishtar splitting into Aphrodite and Ares thru mythological spread and drift.
Im sure theres pieces i haven't considered. But this is the easiest way I've found over a year later to square some circles.
I am pretty sure we will learn more about the Helphen and the spirit world in the DLC.
This video is amazing!
Can’t wait for dlc
This video appeases my many questions for now lol
>buy Japanese dungeon crawler
>look inside
>eastern mysticism
Goddamn this is good
Haven't watched ER lore in a while. Crunchy makes sure I catch up for the lost time 😅
what is certain is that this is one of the most interesting and thought provoking videos about elden ring
it showcases a lot of things that make elden ring much more special than dark souls games (dark souls as in only dark souls 1-2-3), the amount of care, effort and love that went into this game is truly incomprehensible
Many of the concepts are similar to dark souls 1. In ds1 the laws of reality are also defined as the four lord souls of life, death, light and dark each having their respective opposite similar to the elden ring. They kinda had to retcon a lot of this stuff though as ds2 had a different director and took the series in a different direction with the whole "cycles" thing.
@@Lastninjaxoxoxoxox it isnt even comparable how fully realized and fleshed out things are in dark souls and in elden ring
none of the dark souls games, or even all of them combined have the same time, effort and care put into them for one reason or another
elden ring was said to be "the closest to thing to my perfect game" by Miyazaki for a reason, this is the game where he actually had the time to truly make this type of game (this type as in DeS DS1-2-3, aka ""souls"")
@@Lastninjaxoxoxoxox Of course some themes are already present but I have to agree with the commentor above, ER is more fleshed out, especially with the fact that it is ONE connected world in one game only. (not speaking about comparing the games directly, that's another topic)
Let's remember that George R. R. Martin wrote the backstory, like the setting and what happened up to the Shattering, or maybe not that far but not too far off. One reason it's more fleshed out is that two great worldbuilding writers worked on it!
1:02:57 I'd argue you CAN see the rune of death in the Farum Azula ER motif. Just below the 'basin' of Marika's rune, you can follow the line straight down, past a downward turned semi-circle (forming the sides of the rune of death), terminating at the apex of the two next circles.
I don’t buy it, it looks just like the end of the caduceus pattern. It’s not visible in the same way in the concept art as well.
It honestly makes sense that there would be a direct connection between the deathright bird religion and the Golden Order. If Marika is the one to supplant the Twinbird, then it makes sense to me that she might’ve originally been a faithful of it, or at least was steeped in it culturally, thus leading to the Bald Monk
The statue being an abstract representation of the populace would be quite strange… unless, perhaps the statue represents the “birth” of the Greater Will.
You mentioned that the Greater Will might be a sort of manifestation of the collective peoples’ desire for order. Perhaps this statue portrays an ambiguous individual scorched and pained by flames, and the golden sprout of the Erdtree rising up in front of it. It could represent the arrival of the Erdtree, of order, in a time of chaos.
Loved this video. I’m going to have to rewatch. The idea that marina pulled up the underworld and the very Berserk-like merging of worlds… great stuff
See i love this. Im all for metaphor as reality. I love high concept ideas about the structure and mechanisms of the universe. Holding 2 contradictory ideas at once and unifying them is a foundational idea in dialectics. Its all great. But all of this metaphorical mumbo jumbo needs a basis in reality or else its JUST mumbo jumbo. Without some kind of grounding to the logic of the world, its all useless symbols. Its like the primordial chaos, its useless without an order to make sense of it all. So this video has been my favorite one so far on Elden Ring because of your attempt to ground these high concept, seemingly contradictory ideas to the logic of the world and history. You are giving it meaning. Its weird that it took so long for someone to do this.
My only gripe is about Godefroy funnily enough lol And its not that your theory is implausible, just that you think theres 0 chance the completely separate character theory is true. Your theory really holds no more water than the other lol in fact, i think the spirit ash gives a very very slight bit of evidence for the separate character theory. But thats miniscule conoared to all the great work youve put into this video. Great job my guy.
Let me put it this way: most people believe that Godefroy = Godrick doesn’t make any sense, therefore it must be dev laziness. My view is that Godefroy = Godrick not only makes sense but is confirmation of the most consistent and widespread pattern in Elden Ring; it doesn’t make sense for it to be anything else. Exactly how that works is up for grabs- but I tried to give some context for explanations in this video by pinning down the metaphysics.
This was a very nice video, I hope that some of these theories gains traction in shadow of the erdtree
And thank you for reminding me to read the latest chapter of Berserk!
You know, I'd guess that reality got re-written each time the Elden Ring was reformed. It both changed things retroactively, but still had to contend with a reality that still existed. That would explain why multiple versions of certain characters exist. A version of themselves in the previous Ring cannot NOT exist, so both are made to share the new, layered, existence. So Radagon basically writes himself into Marika, in a way usurping her power, but also having to share it.
You speculate about the Helphen Tree poking out the other side of a mirror world as a shadow Erdtree. After Shadow of the Erdtree, this "wild idea" isn't so wild anymore.
Great video! I have some questions. If Maliketh is Marika's shadow (I mean Carl Jung 's shadow archetype,unconsciousness. ),WHY and HOW is it separated from Marika and become an independent being? (Blaidd is same as Maliketh .) I have no idea about these shadowbound beast.
The Elden Ring is the Trace of the Logos, like the Darksign.
Cipher Pata is a pun on 'patter'
Coded Sword comes from the fact that sword is a simple anagram of words.
Notably, Kalameet in DS1 is a transposition of Kalimat, Arabic for Words.
Velka and the Two Fingers are a reference to Pynchon's "V."