Interesting take but I think you’ve glossed over a few key points in order to make the facts fit your theory: first, neither miquella nor malenia have one sealed eye. The 3d model for miquella in the dlc clearly shows him with two eyes open (in fact, his eyes resemble an eclipse), and Malenia has no eyes at all. Second, Malenia is an empyrean herself, so she cannot be Miquella’s shadow bound beast. Third, Messmer’s remembrance strongly suggests a connection between the abyssal serpent and marika’s original sin. Fourth, Marika’s original sin led to the creation of gold and shadow, not order and disorder (or lack of order). Her order could be of gold, but I don’t think those terms are exactly interchangeable. Finally, I’m curious to know what you make of the erdtree seed talismans in the dlc suggesting that the two fingers played a role in marika’s creation of the erdtree.
I think that the 3 empyreans chosen by the fingers were a legit mistake driven by the fact that they were unsound from the start. The fingers managed to see their strengh but failed to interpretate their will: ranny and miquella would have turned on them and malenia could not have been a greater will divinity from the beginning (she misses both eyes so no empyrean fate). I'm inclined however to belive she was miquellas shadow, she accepted to become it, her actions and dialogues strongly suggest this conclusion and that might have been the first instance where the 2 finger allowed this kind of bond considering that the twins were THAT symbiotic. It just doest sound to me as something impossible but i cant manage to elaborate further. Now the original sin and Messmer: After Marika gained incredible strengh and intelligence once she got out of the jar she manged to gain the approval of the fingers and was elected as empyrean and while she was in this, as i call it, super-human/numen state she used her new skillset (each of this talents will generate a demigod after in the story) to seduce the current divinity, the horned/winged and crucible like serpent that ruled the world with placidussax. During the seduction messmer was conceived, his curse were his ""genes", HE WAS THE LIVING PROOF OF THE ORIGINAL SIN, the hornset refer to him as an ipocrite, why? because they have been massacred by the most sacred, rare of their own keen: the beeing that recived the most noble of the crucible blessing, the one of the divinity itself, the winged serpent. than as we see in the trailer marika killed that divinity and ripped the elden ring from her body to ascend to godhood and shape the world as she wanted. seduction and betrayl of a god, thats what the original sin in. and that why marika goes that far to hide messmer and that world where everything happened, messmer curse is similar to mogh and morgott, a revenge from the people she massacred (melina is a curse from the dusk eyed queen that maliket defieted for her i believe but never get explained). Messmer insted was far too "special" to be just kept underground, he had to be hidden from the whole world and marika set him up to do this himself! Elden ring is the story of the most influential, powerful and clever beeing that ever walked the lands between, marika the eternal, her sins her victories and her will that we as a tanished just follow blindly. its always been her and it will always be, at least until she eventually decides to destroy herself (the main game story) only marika can kill marika. this is all speculation tho i could be complitely wrong XD
I agree with your other points, but the Erdtree seed +2 talisman shows an image of the Fingers cradling the Erdtree seed, which does suggest their involvement. Whereas the normal talismans in the base game probably represent seeds cast off from the Erdtree itself, the +2 probably represents the original seed of THE Erdtree. That said it's debatable how much they were actually involved. Marika deciding to create the Erdtree was probably a product of her native culture and religion (which seemed to involve tree-worship) more than anything else. Also the image of the Fingers in the +2 talisman can be seen in the Godskin sigil, which suggests to me the Fingers doing what they always do - Support every candidate, and when one wins pretend that their ascension was your divine mandate.
@@TheStrengthScholar one of those things we don’t have answers to ; but we know as an established rule that once a Demi god is chosen as an empyrean they get a shadow bound beast, I think maybe we find miquella and Malenia without one bc they inherently seek to defy the Erdtree so they must have been murdered once the haligtree plan was set in motion
Yeah, it could also be due to the fact that they were twins and born with defects. I personally think they were made artificially from Marika's Animus and Radagon's Anima, that's why they're opposites, completary and a parody of their respective opposite gender party.
Malenia isn’t a shadow bound beast. She has her own two fingers on top of her divine tower when you get her great rune. If she was just a shadow she would probably not have gotten her own great rune like Miquella.
Melenia is an Empyrean. She cannot be a shadow as she would have one herself. Also: The statue seems to me to be more of a Romulus and Remus parallel. After all, there had to be some legend where she received her shadow.
i blieve malenia was born at the same time and of the some womb of miquella to be his shadow , given 2 him at birth , malenia is only "empyrean" by extension and doesnt have her own shadow ... culd b wrong tho but clearly they do not hav a "shadow" that has been introduced thus far
Many theorists have suggested that the Greater Will exists and wishes for order, in whatever form it takes at the time. The ancient dragons, the golden order, both very different. However, it doesn’t matter what form this order takes, the Greater Will accepts it. This is why dragon communion does not oppose (and is actually semi-encouraged) in the golden order. Therefore the Greater Will represents Order, and thus is the god of order. Marika herself did not birth order when she ascended to godhood. She only took it upon herself, like one inherits the Flame of Frenzy. More on that below. Then there is chaos. I am certain that frenzied flame is more than just another Outer God. 1) there is no bleed ending, or scarlet rot ending, etc etc. Only frenzied flame. 2) no other status ailment has a set of fingers, like the 2 or 3 fingers. The Frenzy’s 3 Fingers are extremely significant. 3) Melina practically begs you to stay away from it, and the Golden Order deeply condemns any connection to the frenzied flame. This is because it directly opposes Order in a way that no other worldly element comes close. It even has a set of 3 fingers, which symbolically fills the full hand when combined with the Greater Will’s 2 Fingers. It is not a physical thing (which unfortunately made many people turn away from the idea entirely) but is metaphysical and thematic. The Flame of Frenzy is the direct opposite to the Greater Will, continuing with the theme of opposites. It is Chaos, the other half of the Greater Will. They are on equal footing with each other, unlike the other Outer Gods that do not oppose each other and are lesser Gods compared with the Greater Will and Frenzy. The Crucible is the primordial form of the Erdtree, which itself became a symbol of the Golden Order. At this time however, there was no order within it, and so no chaos arose to match it. When Marika inherited the order of the Greater Will, she allowed the Flame of Frenzy to make its return as she made the Golden Order, condemning the Crucible as it did not represent order. Using propaganda it was turned into an uncomfortable and unfortunate subject that was made out to be a bad time. Thus the Erdtree became. There is a reason the Erdtree reaches high into the heavens, and the 3 Fingers of the Frenzied Flame is buried deep below, hidden in an attempt to bury their heads in the sand and act like it doesn’t exist. Marika did not split the Crucible into Order and Chaos, she merely enabled Order and Chaos to make their return into the world, after their decay, after the fall of the Ancient Dragons when their god abandoned them.
Order and chaos by definition are opposed, like dark and light, warm and cold. Order represents diversity of life, souls, feelings. Chaos is absence of all of things, while everything is one, without the differentiation of life, The One Great. Thats why Ranni don’t dissolve the Order, just take it away, she knows how life itself is deeply connected with the order, i wonder if guys like Goldmask know about this connection to life and order.
@@TheAuspiciousGoldmask I’m not sure, I believe the One Great is in a time eons ago, when the Greater Will and Flame of Frenzy were not yet separate beings. Then at some point they split and the Greater Will attempted to make harmony, order. When it did this, the Frenzied Flame thus had to respond with every sin, every curse, as Hyetta says. The mistake she mentions the GW making was attempting to create order, because this very act caused Chaos to be made in it’s stead
@@SpremeCalami "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake”- Hyetta herself says that the one great came before life and souls, she very much says “all that there is” so i believe that The One Great is the most primitive form of the world, then the greater will created life in amidst the chaos, “we are the children of the greater will” like ymir says, “born of stardust”, but not any stardust, the stardust of the Elden Star containing beast that would become the Elden Ring, often mentioned as: “creator of life” or “giver of life”, the mistake of the greater will was to create diversity in life, when we analyze what hyetta says. Thats just my theory tho.
@@TheAuspiciousGoldmask decent theory, but I think the One Great was less chaos and more a lack of any order, like the crucible. Then when the Greater Will made life with the purpose of it creating societies and order, it too inadvertently made something that opposes that order. Life is full of torment, despair and affliction and without these things, life in the Lands Between wouldn’t be. It’s why the Frenzied Flame is the answer for so many that wish for the pain and suffering to end. Because it burns away all that there is, burning away life and ending the suffering in the process.
@@SpremeCalami i see the one great as a amalgamation of everything, the frenzied flame can melt everything, life and souls, i like to imagine it as the primordial soup, that existed a long time ago in our planet, a chaotic ambient with raging thunder storms and volcanos, until the meteor containing life and water stroke the earth, after millenniums of the planet itself getting colder and that water being in contact with numerous nutrients and heat, it formed a prone ambient to life exist.
Isn't it a little weird to say that duality originated from Marika when the Alabaster and Onyx Lords were already known to be some of the first lifeforms on the planet ages before she ever existed? Surely the concepts of chaos and order predated Marika's reign, along with a whole bunch of other conflicting opposites.
@@dksu true, however as he explains in another video, Malenia is the protective side of the inner child, and Miquella is the innocent inner child, they are twins but also almost the same being, they are two halves of the same coin, different yet intertwined, the reason they dont have a shadow is because they havent had their personality fractured yet from trauma, their shadows havent been created yet. So they are both eachothers shadows, the sides of themselves theyve burried and reflect one another
I think her original sin was casting off her mortality all at once and using him as her lord consort to ascend to godhood. This would explain why Messmer is a spitting image of Radagon and not Godfrey…
You forgot that Miyazaki confirmed that Messmer is also an Empyrean. I think there’s some other criteria that were missing that determines who becomes an Empyrean. I also seem to remember that shadowbound beasts are half-wolves or at least humanoid animals. Not sure why we only see Marika’s and Ranni’s Shadow, a few more might have cleared up some confusion but maybe the others hadn’t received theirs yet or they just flat out killed them so they wouldn’t be trouble. :/
You really caught my attention with the Endings video project; you seem to be getting to a very interesting point with Ranni staying fractured. And I really need to get this off my chest: Marika's braids, the Elden Stars incantation, the ancient Elden Ring in Maliketh's arena, all of them have the form of the "crucible current" in them, the twin spiral. Marika was clearly aligned, or originated in, the crucible. She turned the crucible into this order. Or rather, she needed to impose her order onto the crucible;she broke it and molded it and separated it into "good" and "bad", acceptable and unacceptable, order and chaos.
@@allthe1 I agree with this a lot, she betrayed the hornsent who elevated her to godhood, instead of ascending the spiral she sealed destined death, traumatized by the events of the bonnie village and possibly her daughter's death. This is when the split occured and how lands of shadow came to exist (it was all lands between before that). That is the "betrayal" and the original sin and the very motive which miyazaki puts into every single dark souls/bloodborne/sekiro
@@mikeekim8567 I certainly believe Marika's past trauma determined her actions. But I a not convinced she tried to avenge or protect her own people... In Enir Ilim the bodies piled up at the beginning of the area have no horns. Maybe she betrayed everyone and gave her own people in sacrifice, splitting herself completely from her emotions, from her physical body, and completely identifying with her oppressors, even usurping them, repeating their atrocities in the Lands of the Erdtree, although in another form. Warriors seem to be little more than sacrifies in her order, and priests and cleric have high authority, in opposition to the warrior rulers and priest sacrifices of the Hornsent. I'm not totally convinced, since there is so little evidence, but that's definitely a possibility imo 🥲
@@allthe1to me it makes more sense if Enir Ellim was built by the hornsent, what sacrifice is better than non-hornsent to build a tower to the gods? But then these hornless ppl lack the divine crucible spark so they needed their own to make the actual gate. Imo she didn’t make the gate but stole it
@@mikeekim8567 it's also reminiscent of biblical mythology, where the "original sin" is the fact that by eating the Apple of Knowledge, Eve basically brought disparity into the world by introducing the notions of good and evil. Until she did that, there was no good and evil, there only was.
I think I disagree that Blaidd being warm and kind is opposite to ranni. She goes out of her way to give us the spirit calling bell despite her movements being taxing, she genuinely loves both Blaidd and iji, she gives in and talks to us if u talk to her doll only just 3 times as opposed to the 4 times it took st. Trina, who is considered compassionate, and she even decides to let you live if u try to give her the amber shard. She says that it is all selivus’ idea and that u were mearly mislead by him. Pretty warm, compassionate and understanding in my opinion. I think that is what gives her ending so much more power. She is willing to doom herself to eternal loneliness to rid the world of gods playing with men. However, she finds late into her journey that she doesn’t have to go alone. She gets us. Her consort.
That's an interesting perspective. 4 is like a homonym in Japanese for death. And she only talks to you after the 4th death. I'm not sure what that could mean, but it's a neat observation.
I would like to add to the Ranni/Blaidd opposites. Ranni's main thing is rebellion and doing everything she can to be free of any influence above her. While Blaidd is the loyalty and subservience personified. Even after going mad and being betrayed he continued to protect his master.
I personally believe all of marikas children are reflections of herself. They are different aspects and actions commited, manifested as a new person,one who may potentially be a new god or elden lord in the next age. Miquella was the last, and messmer was the first. Yet all failures, her great great great great great grandchildren would userp them all.
Possibly one success - Ranni, of course, can literally ascend to godhood with her own Lord. She's the only one who's scheme represents an ending path rather than a boss fight. Of the other Empyreans, Malenia just wanted to follow Miquella, and Miquella already had a Lord chosen. So he was an obstacle.
Yep from the pot process she is culmination of many beings. Radagons red hair always left me stumped but now I get it. I find it interesting the lamenter form has red hair on it as well making me believe it came from the pot too
If you believe that marika was born from the hornsent then it makes sense that each of marikas children each have an aspect of the parts marika is made up of. Maybe when the hornsent were creating marika they threw a aspect of the serpent into the jar and so when Mesmer was born that’s why he was born with a serpent it’s because she had serpent in her dna, or marika used Mesmer as a way to disregard the serpent aspect of herself because she clearly hated who she was. Marika did not want to become a god and she was forcefully turned into one so when she found out the truth of how she was created she was pissed and did everything she could to disregard those aspects of herself such as the serpent that she hated and maybe used Mesmer as a way to disregard that part of herself.
Marika's actions - She found matyr, mother of fingers through the finger horn located just past her village. She became an empyrean, went back to her village, found the hornsent, seduced the leader of the horn sent (Empyrean Grandames son), gave the location of the village to them in trade to gain their trust, and then killed them in their sleep. She tried to undo what she did, set up hospitals to attempt to remove the shamans from the jars (beds in shadow keep basement) to no avail, went back to the village, saw no one, left her erd tree incantation, left her braid and confession, then sealed away hte lands of shadow.
09:05 I'm not sure I agree with this analysis to be honest. Ronni had a beast _gifted_ to her by the two fingers. Same with Marika. We can even see in Farum Azula the statue of the Lady with Three Wolves beneath the primordial sigil of the Elden Ring. Something has always granted Empyreans their Shadowbound Beast; they didn't just _exist_ with them. Personally, I feel that because of the natural duality or split between Marika/Radagon has cursed their children to appear in two physical forms as well. Personally, I speculate that this takes the form of Mohg/Morgott, Rykard/Radahn, and Miquella/Melania. You can even see this dualism through their great runes. Mohg and Morgott's runes perfectly overlay one another, same with Rykard's and Radahn's. A Shadowbound Beast, imho, is part of some other ritual that is something more primordial in nature.
An interesting thing to note is the statue of the wolves and the girl. It is in the same place where the beastmen can be found. The 2 opposites, being feral wolfishness and purity/intelligence, are the 2 parts that, when combined, produce the beastmen. Strange that this very specific statue is only found in the same place where wolf-human hybrids can be found. In the context of halves being seperared, it is very strange indeed.
You make such a good point with the runes. There's a split there. Strangely there seems to be separate events for removing and sealing the rune of death. Which is significant.
@@teahousereloaded I want to believe that, as the OP kinda hints at but doesn't focus on, that the Original Sin was one of severance. From, as a thematic company, really likes their Dualism after all. Imagine that before the Original Sin two halves lived in relative equality. I want to believe that when Marika was taking the Gold from that fleshy thing, she was quite literally taking the gold aspect out of the shadow. In this sense; think of a Yin Yang where the Yang takes that little white dot out of Yin. In this, I feel like Marika took the Light out of Dark (stealing what would essentially be an aspect of herself even (golden hair)) and condemned the dark to be forever "weaker" as she would still have that ounce of Dark within herself. Thus, granting her a more complete existence while condemning her death-based rival to exist perpetually weaker. This surfaces in her children, as many of them are dichotomously split in two to represent the fact that she is falsely taking two halves to make a whole. She has tried her hardest to combine opposition within herself and become a perfect being, but everything is based on a flaw..or even madness.
@@teahousereloaded If marika created duality, and that results in the overlaying great runes, that are two opposite parts of the same thing (Yin and Yang) what would be the opposite of death? It would be life... If you would get rid of, or seal death, life would not be able to exist on its own... So... sealing the rune of death to make life an eternal thing with no opposite, might be the primordial sin... because it should not be possible... it is against an Order... or it would result in some kind of „life in death“...
@@VultureXV hey to add to this, the Crucible is represented by a blending of red and gold (can't remember the shield that shows this, but it's there). When we look at the statues in the Roundtable Hold and Leyndell Highway, the man is holding a shoot growing a golden flower which is springing up from other shoots. This is clear imagery for when the Golden Erdtree, the representation of the Golden Order, emerged from the Crucible. We also know that the Golden Order was formed when Marika plucked the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring and confined it to Malekith's Blade. So, my theory is that Marika's sin was betraying the people and avatar of the Crucible (the GEQ or serpent God? Something else?) and essentially pulling out the Golden grace of life from the Crucible itself. In a sense, she leaves this culture and foundation of creation Tarnished to create her own order. This also allows her to justify the purging of an entire land, and why runes and spirits in the land of Shadow are black. It's also interesting that the Rune of Death is Black and Red.
Marika learned how to be a saint via the Hornsent’s jar ritual, then turned it against them: she slaughtered the entire race and built the gate of divinity as a mega-jar that allowed her to transcend sainthood and become a God. She just needed a bigger jar with more bodies. Whatever the Hornsent figured out with jar, she perfected it by melting an entire race together to become a God. Perhaps becoming a God means splitting yourself into a Godly half and a Shadow half.
If you believe the Elden Beast only arrived during Marika's age I'm curious how you reconcile the depiction of the Elden Ring in Farum Azula, as well as Placidusax being himself an Elden Lord. The ancient dragons as a whole have an incredibly strong connection to the Greater Will, and seemed to have their own equivalent God to Marika. This clashes pretty heavily with the idea that Marika was the sole vessel through which the Greater Will exerted the concept of Order on the world. I feel like this is ironically making Marika a grander more important piece of the overall cosmology than she actually is. I dont feel the presence of that statue is a concrete enough explanation of anything to assert that Marika must have been present in Farum Azula, when it equally as possible Maliketh erected that statue as a remembrance of his sister given its placement in his arena. Moreover i just flat out do not understand the connection you're attempting to make with the by suggesting that Marika is somehow the One Great, even if in a strictly metaphorical sense. The splitting of the One Great is the origin of life, and births as a concept, I cant possibly see how Marika doing her thing at the Gate well into the development of civilized society can be considered tantamount to the primordial origin of life itself.
I agree. The statue of Marika right below the ancient Elden Ring depiction itself might be a more recent addition. Maliketh or one of his servants must've built it after he moved in after The Shattering.
@TheCenteredTarnished I really appreciate that you are exploring the psychological themes that Elden Ring, especially that Marika can help us explore. I have a question though: you state that in the Age of the Crucible that there isn’t an opposing concept. May I ask what about the numerous hints and concepts around Death and its numerous rituals in the time before the Erdtree don’t make Death an opposing force to the Crucible? Especially if the Crucible is a powerful, life giving force? I still think both of these forces were indiscriminate and therefore without order. I just wonder if there is something more to explore, here?
I dont think Ranni made the greater mistake out of her and Miquella. What Ranni did was trying to be independent from the forces around her at all costs. What Miquella did was far worse. He did not only "betray his shadow". He has forsaken everything that binds him to this world in an effort to save it. He betrayed his own nature because he was too afraid he could make the same mistakes as his mom. And unlike Ranni thats why he ultimately failed. You can't achieve an Age of Compassion without Love and you can't save the world when nothing binds you to it.
are you saying there was no opposition before the Elden Beast arrived, there was no day and night? order in ER seems more about beings Of a world, becoming self-aware of causation and starting to develop a desire for control to influence the seemingly "unorderly" organic flow surrounding one. order = cuntrol
As a gloam eyed Melina fan, I love the idea that the GEQ is cast off from Marika. As much as I also love the butterfly theory, I've never subscribed to the idea that Melina's hair is just "faded red" (as a Melina cosplayer I can tell you that not even FromSoft can agree on what her hair color is lol). So I really like that your theory aligns with the idea that Melina is a "daughter" of Marika while also solving the puzzle of who her dad is (no one, but also Marika at the same time).
chaos by its very nature is disorder. So you have to be more specific. What you are saying is Zero, or absolute zero. If order is +10, chaos is -10, zero is dead center. Blaid does not die when we kill the shadow bound beast. Whether he goes insane from the act after or he is unable to comprehend why it is only after Ranni kills her two fingers do we have to kill Blaid.
Man I just want to say I adore the lens you view the game through. I look forward to every new video from you, and every video convinced me more and more.
You are mistaken cuz melenia isnt the shadow bound beast of miquella its stated in game that miquella’s other half was St. Trina and that both miquella and melenia was born as twins melenia even has her own separate 2 Fingers when you get her great rune
While I agree Melania isn't Miquella's shadowbound beast, it is assumed that both she and her brother would've shared their 2 fingers since they were twins, much like Mohg and Morgott
Marika by birth was a red haired powerless shaman, from the bottommost sect of the hornsent society. But she was special because she was chosen as an empyrean from the shaman people by her two fingers. Marika in her desperation, fear, and anger towards the hornsent manifested this other self that is Radagon. She was then instructed by her two fingers to use Radagon to commit an act of blasphemy which would later grant her significant power.. Now the hornsent were an advanced civilization that worshipped the crucible, created the gates of divinity by blending life forms together to emulate the crucible, and ultimately succeeded in accessing the powers of the crucible. The hornsent were strongly connected to the godskin. It was the godskin that aided the blending of lifeforms by skinning and making up those gates of corpses. The leader of the godskin, the golden haired gloam eyed queen was the god of the time and represented the crucible. You see crucible like features on the goskin nobles and apostles (tail, crucible like incantations etc). The godskin also had some kind of association with serpents as we have seen a godskin noble at the temple of Eglay. Here is what Marika and her two fingers plotted: Marika would use Radagon, a powerful and charming champion to seduce and have an affair with the gloam eyed queen. Once seduced, the gloam eyed queen birthed two red haired children, Messmer and Melina. Marika was also bestowed upon a powerful shadow by the two fingers, Maliketh. Once the children were born, Marika would use the opportunity to assassinate the gloam eyed queen using Maliketh. Marika would then pluck out the golden rune of the gloam eyed queen as shown from the trailer. This rune resided within the golden hair of the gloam eyed queen (You see that the body from which the hair is removed looks like godskin and the sky in the scene looks like a golden sky is about to replace a previous gloam colored sky). Marika would therefore assume godhood and would become the golden haired queen. The seduction, the affair and the betrayal is what lead to gold arising through Marika. And so was shadow born. I think shadow here also refers to the two children Messmer and Melina. Messmer inherited the black flame (Black pyrefly) and serpentine natures from his mother and Melina inherited the gloam eyes and destined death. Marika would seal both of these away. The golden braid that Marika left to the grandmother before she left her village forever, which is her prayer and confession, is simply a part of the same golden hair that she tore off from the gloam eyed queen for the great rune. Marika became a golden haired god but Radagon would remain red haired. The red hair reminded Marika of her sin which is why Radagon always hated his hair.
I think that seeing elden ring in terms of dualities, or as one may call it, dicothomies is a vert enlightening perspective. It reminds me of a certain story, and a thesis written on ir, the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.
The zeroth dynasty was the age of Dragons. They had contact with the outer god of primordial raw power. They ruled for a time. Many peoples had kingdoms all over the Lands Between, never all unified, never all conquered. The Storm King, Raya Lucaria, Calid, Mountain top of the giants. The Shadow Lands were and are a part of the Lands Between. Merica vailed the Shadow Lands, separating it form the LB, no longer seen. This happened when she caused the third impact at the gate of divinity (see more info bellow). With that action she hid thousands of years of ancient history, almost completely lost. The first people to rise to power in the lands between were the dynasty of spirals, they created the spiral city (Enir Ilim). They worshipped the crucible which rose up as a Great spiraled tree. The spiraled people made the gate of divinity and caused the first impact, someone ascended to godhood by contacting an outer god, likely the god of spirals. They ruled for a time. Then the Knox people took over. They used the gate of divinity to cause the second impact. They contacted the outer god of Knox, this god had gravity defying power, someone ascended to godhood. The Knox added gravity defying architecture to the spiral city after taking it from the spiral dynasty. They kept the Great Sprial tree. The Knox dynasty (2nd) spread across the Lands Between establishing the cities of Knoxstella, Knoxron, and the Namless city. The horn sent were guided by the outer god of the crucible which now gave beast powers like horns and wings. The horn sent took over the spiraled city from the Knox. They took over the Sprialed Great tree. They started to get the gate of divinity ready to welcome the outer god of the crucible and (disordered) beast powers. But Merica, a slave, betrayed their hopes. As a slave Merica never had loyalty to the horn sent so this betrayal was one sided, for her it was just revenge. She also had Mesmer during a relationship with a serpent beast crucible being. Merica destroyed the horn sent's plans and did the exact opposite. She welcomed the outer god of order (the Greater Will) as opposed to the disordered horny crucible outer god. Merica took over, she sacrificed the hornsent at the gate of divinity, she caused the third impact by contacting the outer god of the Greater Will of Golden Order, and ascended to godhood. She did not conquer the spiraled city from the horn sent, no she wanted to destroy all previous history, all previous dynasties erased, she was going to start over, new and fresh, with the Greater Will. She would restructure the Lands Between and fully conquer it in the third Dyansty. Then Merica with the Greater Will, cut the roots of the great spiral crucible tree, stole the roots and grafted them onto the new Erdtree, stole the crucible current power of this world, feeding the Erdtree and gaining ultimate power over the Lands Between, the Scaduetree (aka sprial tree) has been dieing eversince. She also destroyed destined death which was a designed part of the old crucible sprial great tree. In her conquest she vailed the ancient lands now called the shadow lands. True destined death still exists in the Shadow Lands. She established the Third Dyansty. She banished the Knox into the ground similar to the Shadow Lands. Merica's Golden order ruled for a time, until we, the tarnished are called to determine the fourth dynasty. We can also help Miquella start the fourth impact to welcome in his godhood and the dyansty (4th) of compassion. These notes are rough, some things are wrong, but this is the big picture (ancient history) I see.
Yeah, I fully agree with the big picture stuff here. There's a good deal of evidence to support at least 2 other dynasties before Marika, and it's a safe bet that the Nox are part of one of them. There's evidence of 3 different, distinct, types of bodies in and around the gate of the divinity. The 1st layer, no horns, seem to be flash burnt, hardened, and frozen in time, expression and all. The 2nd layer, some evidence of horns, but not what I would call hornsent, is similar to the first. And then there's the actual hornsent, who crumble to dust on walking over them, despite likely being the newest of the corpses there. The only real question I had, is where does Placi fit in with all of it? Before there was even a gate of divinity? Between one of the others? Hard to say. Pretty good theory mate, but as you stated yourself, some of the details need clarity. Such as the nature of the Gods of each dynasty. Though we don't get really any info on that, so vague guesses are all we get. I also really don't get the vibe that Marika was ever a slave, and I don't subscribe to the theory that she was ever part of the hornsent's experiments personally. She either watched her entire village be kidnapped and butchered, and was the lone survivor; or, she sacrificed them in exchange for access to Godhood. Likely, the former, since she left the braid, confession, and minor erdtree behind in her village. IMO, her "betrayal" of the hornsent was about how they taught her about the gate of divinity, and how it works, and she turned her back on their beliefs when she achieved Godhood. Later, (it's stated that the hornsent were allowed to continue as before, under her rule, "for a time") she has them exterminated in a "holy crusade", sealing both them and Messmer away, killing 2 birds with one stone. Overall, pretty cool to compare notes on the topic though! You're one of the few I've seen that has the same idea about dynasties and Gods before Marika.
i believe that removing death from the golden order is what made the greater will abandon the two previous elden lords marika and placidusax as the name suggest golden order i assume it must have living and death in its order otherwise the greater will will look for another elden lord who has the moral capacity to accept the fate of living and death
This has a lot of parallels to Dareloth's Prisoner Theory, and also makes a lot of sense as to why there was so much corruption in Marika's bloodlines compared to Hornsent and other religious groups prior to her takeover - When a Demigod birthing happens you're splitting a Whole Divinity, thus "divinity" seeks out other divinity to pair with for each to be birthed "pseudo-whole." The other groups embraced and accepted imperfection of self and allowed temporary possession/wholistic completion through their faiths by becoming like their Spiritual Ideologies, Hornsent growing Spiral-like horns, Tree/Flower worshippers becoming flowers, etc.
This also supports the Haemonculi Theory that the Demigod children (including, likely, Tarnished) may also not alive-births, but Shamanistic Haemonculi being attempted to perfect Marika's wrongs, and the Tarnished and Godfrey are 'hollowed' allowing us to absorb/conplete ourselves however we choose, being originally viewed as both valid option to move forward with, but a gamble when they could attempt a more complete-condensed whole with a better starting point than "just a person." We are a Tarnished Jar, the perfected techniques the Hornsent and others used imperfect forms of to mash together those who had the necessary qualities for completeness.
This also reflects perfectly and ironically on Miquella as despite all of his compassion and tight scheme ,he ends up repeating the mistake and casting away his other half, granted he didnt "seal" it but when you think about it its very similar to how coping works in real life; fear and indifference can both be used and indifference ilcan be seen as neglect ,the same way he neglects his other half and in doing so ,repeats the mistake due to fear that his love/hate could ruin the plan but it's exactly the confrontation of that fear that undoes the sin and makes us whole.
Gunna have to disagree on the example of Melenia, she never rejected the qualities that went against her destined age of Rot, rather she embraced them, evidence is her very fighting style, her use of unalloyed gold limbs, and how much she loves her brother who IS himself both Empyrian and the opposite of her age. With that said, I have reason to think Miquella and Melenia never got Shadow Bound Beasts from the 2 fingers. Both rejected, for their own related reasons, the Golden Order and the two Fingers. As such, any Shadow Bound Beast they would have had, would have gone mad LONG before the shattering. Basically when Miquella started growing his own Urd tree, he should have been on the Two Finger’s list, but given the precautions he and Melenia took, they survived into the Shattering War, where things took the turn they did. All that said, interesting theory overall, certainly worth thinking about.
8:00 correction. Malenia is the twin of Miquella. Maliketh is being cursed only after the rune of death is being bound in his body. Malenia's curse on the other hand same as all children of Marika was given by birth. Also about Malenia's shadow and Miquella shadow. We didn't saw Miquella's shadow but we saw Malenia's SHADOWS in the forn of her "children" in Milicent quest line.
Interesting ideas, specially the ones about opposites. But i disagree. As others stated Malenia is also an empyrean, but besides that im struggling to understand how can Marika be the great one or even be from the begining. It's explicitly stated she is a Numen, and came from the shaman village, this places her origins as much more humble in nature and not ever present. She can't be the great one from the beginning, and then at some point become a god later, that doesn't make sense. And regarding the order and opposition concepts, its weird to believe that pre-marika there was no "order", as in the literal meaning of the word. Civilizations pre-marika existed, with their own cultures and notions of order. Marika just established her own concept of order, a very flawed one even as all the metyr lore implies. To me it's actually simpler, the great one is just a name to the state of the universe pre-big bang, and after this primordial explosion of life everything was created, including opposites, the greater will, outer gods, etc. In that sense the crucible is closer to the great one, and what happens in the lands between is more of a local repetition of what happened cosmically.
Theres a lot missing here to make this theory sound. 1) Messmer had a huge army from Leyendell with him to massacre the hornsent. Meaning the original sin happened way after she had become a god. (Supported both by Messmer and Gaius' descriptions). 2) we dont know Malenias devotion to Miquella and Mohgs new revelation in the DLC only brings further the likelihood she isnt his shadow. 3) if it was the original sin, what about the tons of other sins that happened before her ascension?
Always assumed Melina was the GEQ, but after the dlc I'm going more towards Marika, or Marika's "St. Trina" hence the putrid knight being called "gloam eyed knight" in the files. Miquella's actions are basically a replica of Marika, so that corpse in the trailer might be one of Marika's aspect and the geq. I say this also mainly cause: 1) The Dominula festivities seem to be sanctioned by the golden order and are a respected ritual. Why marika would keep this gruesome ritual? 2 godskin are explicitly said to kill gods, not demigods, just gods. Basically what Marika's did to hornsent. 3 the weird veil behind her statues (which i feel is what we see in the trailer) has the same symbols the godskin carry on their aprons. Why would the godskin carry her symbol? Seems like the statues symbolize her discarding the gloam-eyed queen identity. 4 their rituals of skinning and absorbing characteristics of their victims seem akin to the shamans abilities, except used in a proper way and not forced and instrumentalized. 5 the godskin have all Marika's and the shamans' proportions and have no horns. 6 the geq and the godskin all show symbols connected to metyr herself, indicating a direct alliance. Also the godskin seem to imitate in their aesthetic the lampreys, maybe some form of worship or tactic the same way norse warrior would wear wolf pelt over their heads. 7) Messmer and the base serpent show characteristics of godskin, down to him carrying serpentine characteristics of the crucible. 8) this is more of an assumption, the eiglay skin in bonny. One godskin noble worship the eiglay's skin in volcano manor, so perhaps the shamans carry serpentine characteristics of the crucible, while the hornsent just the horns. Example are the jar insides looking basically like the insides of the god-eating serpents, their ability to extend a "maw" looking like a grown version of the small tendrils inside rykard and coveringn his sword, the jar shamans' flesh carrying rancor like the snakes, and the weird "rope" formations around enir-ilim and the divine gate similar to both snake skeletons and the snakes surrounding the body pillars in rykard's arena. So bonny's serpent skin might belong to a shaman. 9) if Marika is the Elden beast, then her weapon being the sacred relic sword makes sense as she is returning to her original fighting style.
Yeah me too. All those people projecting their personal obsessions on the game is becoming really boring. Wost of all I think are all those self-proclaimed ''alchemists'' who have no Idea about alchemy, and are pushing and gatekeeping their weird theory about Marika beeing an alchemical ''rebis''.
Please do a video on the mother of the fingers after finding out all of the lore surrounding it. Also please do a video on the ancient dragons. And this video was…….. Ok.
I don't think Marika necessarily "splits" herself, but rather splits the Crucible, or at least rebels against the Greater Will's way of doing things, incurring their wrath as the Elden Beast crashes into the Lands Between. Her Kindness of Gold, without Order would point to her indiscriminate way of helping the souls of the dead, find their transformative reincarnation, free of judgement by the Greater Will. I feel there a lot of deception in the lore, attempts at hiding the truth behind a veil of shadow.
I wonder, if every shadowbound beast is characterized by their loyalty, does that imply that each empyrean is characterized by their treachery (at least to the current ruling order)? Bringing about a new age does require an innovation, and to enact such would need you to overturn the concurrent societal system in some way or another, if not in its totality.
the idea that shadowbounds are somehow part of the character that empyreans lose in order to ascend to godhood is kinda silly. If its death for marika then wouldn’t it have to be something like faith for ranni, and not a part of her personality. Otherwise each one gets treated differently and therefore any attempt to theorycraft just falls flat
Always had this idea that the frenzy and the crucible were related. I remember a dialogue of the frenzy maiden that the frenzy flame wants to melt all back into a single thing. And the crucible was this one single thing that was everything.
Just found this channel and im thiroughly impressed with these videos. the way these obtuse ideas are brought together in such a well thought out use symbols snd themes is amazing
You could go even further into Miquella and Malenia being antithetical to each other, as Miquella represents bounty/abundance while Malenia is decay and its links to rot. Furthermore, Miquella seeks godhood and accepts his role to ascend to his apotheosis at any costs (as we see in the Shadow of the Erdtree narrative), while Malenia thematically encapsulates resistance in all forms, and in particular a resistance against becoming the goddess of rot, a direct contrast to Miquella's desire to attain godhood. It's a great thematic clash, how these twins represent opposites so thoroughly.
Hey CT, So the statue of the girl and the three wolves, in this interpretation would be: Marika Life Death Chaos? So by Marika committing the original sin of removing the rune of death she created shadow and order… then the true opposite of order was also born which is chaos (frenzy flame)? Possibly the unintended consequence of her mess… Is this what the NPCs mean when they say Marika cursed them all? I’m still unclear about the three fingers and where they fit here with this interpretation. Everything else is very coherent and you even threw in a totally different timeline from the current accepted timeline smoothly. Very impressive, and it’s why I’m a big fan of your videos. Keep it up man!
If by your theory of Malenia being a shadow bound beast, then Malekith and Blaidd would also be empyreans, which is never implied.. My guess is they just decided to use his sister as part of the duality because they're twins. Probably not much more to it.
Indeed it's too bad for Blaidd. One detail tho, when we become Ranni's consort, we became also become her complementary one. That why in the items description it is written that she resigned herself into loneliness but following the path of the Dark Moon and the Age of Stars, but since we unexpectedly become her Consort, we also assume the role of complementary/shadow. That's partly why she seemed annoyed when we spoke with her when she is the little doll, and why we can start her quest as devious/antagonistic to her (following Rogier/Fia), to show opposite personalities that somehow unite ;) So in the end, we replace Blaidd (sorry best bro).
I agree with you 100% on the betrayal and seduction. People think she seduced people but I agree she was seduced by Godhood. And the possibly felt trapped within it
This would mean she split herself into 3, the golden, the queen, and Radagon. Which according to you means she is not order but chaos. I think it’s an interesting theory but has some large holes imo.
I've been really fascinated by the mysteries of Elden Ring since coming back to it during the DLC. It didn't do much for me before but I've finally found some questions that feel really interesting. I'm sort of stuck on what is Radagon (might have a super simple answer tbh), The Crucible (which might have a direct answer), and how did Marika become a God?
I don't agree with your conclusions but I think you've definitely hit on some points that others overlook. There are times when the intuitive answer is the correct one even in Fromsoft titles however that limits the scope of analysis and, especially with Fromsoft titles, can be a tool for the devs to trick you. I've also become convinced that cut content is fair game when we're looking to start broad and narrow down into more precise understandings. With Elden Ring, I think, the themes and the 'material' of the world are wound up in each other. Not unlike the Scattotree.
Elden Ring CC retell the same puzzle pieces every video . Elden Ring Lore : Perhaps , Maybe , It could be , Alive , dead , red , gold , butterflies and tree aliens .
If marika created duality, and that results in the overlaying great runes , that are two opposite parts of the same thing (Yin and Yang) then... what would be the opposite of death? It would be life... But... If you would get rid of, or seal away death, life would not be able to exist on its own... So... sealing the rune of death to make life an eternal thing with no opposite, might be the original sin... because it should not be possible... it is against any Order... or it would result in some kind of „life in death“combined with no duality...
What does everyone think about the fact that Godfrey is called the first of the demigods? (Source- Godricks great rune). At first I thought it was a translation error or typo because I haven’t really heard much analysis on it. I haven’t given a lot of thought to it yet since I just noticed it in the item description haha…anyways thought it was interesting and might be worth discussing. Great video as always CT!
Has anyone ever read Roadside Picnic or "The Gods Must Be Crazy"? That's what I'm going with as the origin of the Crucible. One of these outer beings (can we call them "gods"? Sure they're more powerful than us, so we'll go with gods) made a pit stop in the Lands-Between, had a picnic or maybe threw a coke bottle out and then left all it's trash without consideration of how much it disrupted the ant's world. Sure to us, the Crucible seems like something remarkable, powerful. Even divine! We would covet it's power. Only in time does it reveal its darker side.
Your description of the Crucible harkens back to the Dark Souls universe. Where the Age of Dragons was an age of immortality, undying, stone dragons. No life, death, dark or light. It was only when the first flame was found that disparity (like gold, Order, and Death) was discovered. Even back to Demon Soul's where there was nothing but a grey fog. It seems like an idea Miyazaki has been trying to hone for a long, long time.
All I can add is that from had been retelling the same story since demons souls. It’s a story about a foreign, cosmic outer entity that feeds on terrestrial souls like a parasite. It’s too alien and unfathomable to be perceived by a human mind but it’s either seen as a giant tree slug like the old one….or the erdtree and the Elden beast resting within it. In both cases, a monarch commits a cardinal sin and makes a deal with this entity…like king allant with the old one or Marika with the higher will…. Similar back stories that explain the games mechanics where everything that dies in the world surrenders its “souls” to the player…. In demons souls you are a demon and in Elden ring you are a tarnished (a fallen demigod) who also unknowingly collects souls (runes) for a parasitic alien entity. Of course I could be wrong, but my take is that Miyazaki is just retelling the same story and refining everything about it with each iteration.
A further point on the pre - order (lol) era of the now shadow lands is the presence of death rite birds and ghostflame: here death becomes life in form of spirits, there is no conflict between life and death and they work harmoniously toghether. On the contrary, in the golden order, death and life are separated completely, and those who live in death are exterminated because they represent this primordial wholeness, as does the crucible. Very good video! I think you are on to something..
One thing that always stuck to me about item descriptions, is who is the narrator? Why is this info popping up now as if the tarnished remembered it rather than learning it. I feel that our tarnished is some sort of old demi God that HAS the whole picture and only recalls the information of things they pick up rather than dwelling on it cause they learned it recently
So, the 'Pot' theme is very strong in this DLC. Can you please comment on my following thoughts: If one takes away the 'contrivance' that is the tooth whip the whole lore falls like a house of cards. (it's so damn frustrating the longer I think of it - hear me out.) Just imagine there would be no tooth whip item without the comically silly line of the flesh of Shamans blending harmoniously etc... A single item that explains literally everything without any other hints or clues sprinkled in between - shouldn't be that way. My hypothesis: take the item out of the game and we have literally 0 reasoning on why Marika went onto her genocide / why the Shamans are extinct.
I agree. I think players should be rewarded with exploration, but I don't think the entire plot should hinge on it. It would be way to easy to miss something and not gain the slightest glimpse into the lore. I think the story should be slightly more straightforward with side stories being solved through exploration but having a main theme being in a tiny hut easily missed doesn't sit right with me. I'm all for exploring every nook and cranny but it should be vital to understanding the story.
@@CenteredTarnished I’m looking forward to it! I really enjoy your theories, especially I LOVED the one about marika in the jar. I have tons of fun speculating on this game’s lore and your videos are always a fresh, competent and well produced take on the more complicated aspects of this beautiful story, takes that can make us start sewing the pieces together and get to theories of our own. Thanks for this channel man, it’s fun and thought provoking, only you and vaati make videos this interesting. Sorry if my comment it’s not in perfect english but I’m Italian and it’s my second language, cheers!
Malenia is specifically referred to as an Empyrean. No other shadow has been referred by this title. Ranni removed herself from the influence of the Two fingers by casting off her “Empyrean flesh” then killed her two fingers and we killed her shadow when we are confronted by mad Blaidd. Not to be confused with the Baleful Shadow we kill earlier in the quest line. “I was once an Empyrean. Of the demigods, only I, Miquella, and Malenia could claim that title. Each of us was chosen by our own Two Fingers, as a candidate to succeed Queen Marika, to become the new god of the coming age. Which is when I received Blaidd. In the form of a vassal tailored for an Empyrean. But I would not acquiesce to the Two Fingers. I stole the Rune of Death, slew mine own Empyrean flesh, casting it away. I would not be controlled by that thing. The Two Fingers and I have been cursing each other ever since... And the Baleful Shadows... are their assassins.”
miquella is the best plan, still he tore some parts of himself, like his love his flesh, etc, so probably he also made a mistake trying to correct the first sin
And now speaking of Miquella. In point of view of character progression Miquella=Griffith from Berserk, I mean Miquella bewitch a.k.a Manipulate everybody around him to do his biding. I mean Malenia tried to kill Radahn in Caelid battle, but she failed. Why? Only because Miquella did one sided vow to Radahn to be his consort. From an item description we talk the information TAHT Malenia whispered to Radahn "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort". Miquella used Mohg 's body to RESSURECT Radahn, Why? Because of one side vow Miquella made. I mean we found ST TRINNA and a rune of Miquella saying "I abandoned here my love" from that moment i toom the advice of ST TRINA of battling and defeat Miquella as the only choice available. In character progression Miquella = Griffith
One very crucial thing u missed in order to prove the theory that order started from marika is that before GODFREY, Placidusx was the elden lord and that his god left him behind forever in a slumber and there is not suggestion connecting him to marika...
@@diyanshuigneelkundu5872 what about that little girl statue in FA? Marika is the only person ever mentioned with the ER….. that little girl is Marika. Unless we want to complicate things to no end, it’s the simplest answer
@@CenteredTarnished Nah if you remember correctly then there are two more characters who have connections to that. One is miquella cuz his needle can only be used in plasidusx's altar and that is the only place with the law of time in entire farum azula and secondly when u first meet ranni u get the summoning bell along with spirit ash of three wolves. So the three wolves have a high chance of being related to Ranni as well.
@@diyanshuigneelkundu5872 that’s fine but then you are assuming that Ranni or Miquella was around back then. FA is frozen in time. That statue was built way in the ancient past. So does your head cannon timeline for your theory? Was Miquella or Ranni around with the ancient dragons?
@@CenteredTarnished might be that statue specifically was build in the later period because by the time marika ascended the throne placidusx was no more active..... and farum azula was also seperated and crumbled... I agree with your fact that while marika ascended there was both gold and shadow as without shadow the land which was previously under lands between wldnt have been cast into the shadow realm. So my only explanation is it might be later when that resting place of Maliketh or better known as Gurranq after the rune of death was taken over from the gloam eyed queen and passed onto him for protection.
Except, if Malenia was a shadowbound beast, she would have been mad after you awake her. Also she is very human whereas the other shadowbeasts are wolves
I would say that blaid tries to do everything the right way, betrayel for him is like the highest sin, probably He knows within himself, he will have to betray ranni one day, Ranni on the other hand has a righteous couse which path is dark, and treacherous.. they mirrow themself in a way
These are some very interesting points and conclusions you’ve come to. I actually just made my own theory regarding Marika’s Original Sin and ascension which has been going crazy and popping off. It’d be awesome if you saw it and we compared notes.
I don't know about this one, Shadow's are made, and I don't think a shadow, no matter how powerful, can become an empyerion, to become a god, I can see an Albinoric, being a shadow more than Malenia, I believe Malenia knew Miquella could help her after Miquella introduced unalloyed gold to her, going her entire life rittled with constant pain and agony to one day her younger, weaker brother, who she admired and loved very dearly, didn't cure her but helped her, when no one else could, of course she would put her heart and soul into Miquella, no spell or charm was needed, she knew Miquella had enough Moxie to become a god a completely cure her of her affection, Malenia being a shadow I'm sorry I just can't see it, which is why I'm still mad they didn't show either of their shadows in the DLC 😂 so much lost potential
Imo their relationship is almost certainly intended to mirror the concept of shadow bound beasts but I don't think she is one herself. It's stated pretty plainly in-game that Malenia is an empyrean just like Miquella, so it would make sense for both of them to have their own independent shadow bound beasts, but they just don't seem to be mentioned directly.
Interesting take but I think you’ve glossed over a few key points in order to make the facts fit your theory: first, neither miquella nor malenia have one sealed eye. The 3d model for miquella in the dlc clearly shows him with two eyes open (in fact, his eyes resemble an eclipse), and Malenia has no eyes at all. Second, Malenia is an empyrean herself, so she cannot be Miquella’s shadow bound beast. Third, Messmer’s remembrance strongly suggests a connection between the abyssal serpent and marika’s original sin. Fourth, Marika’s original sin led to the creation of gold and shadow, not order and disorder (or lack of order). Her order could be of gold, but I don’t think those terms are exactly interchangeable. Finally, I’m curious to know what you make of the erdtree seed talismans in the dlc suggesting that the two fingers played a role in marika’s creation of the erdtree.
I think that the 3 empyreans chosen by the fingers were a legit mistake driven by the fact that they were unsound from the start. The fingers managed to see their strengh but failed to interpretate their will: ranny and miquella would have turned on them and malenia could not have been a greater will divinity from the beginning (she misses both eyes so no empyrean fate). I'm inclined however to belive she was miquellas shadow, she accepted to become it, her actions and dialogues strongly suggest this conclusion and that might have been the first instance where the 2 finger allowed this kind of bond considering that the twins were THAT symbiotic. It just doest sound to me as something impossible but i cant manage to elaborate further. Now the original sin and Messmer: After Marika gained incredible strengh and intelligence once she got out of the jar she manged to gain the approval of the fingers and was elected as empyrean and while she was in this, as i call it, super-human/numen state she used her new skillset (each of this talents will generate a demigod after in the story) to seduce the current divinity, the horned/winged and crucible like serpent that ruled the world with placidussax. During the seduction messmer was conceived, his curse were his ""genes", HE WAS THE LIVING PROOF OF THE ORIGINAL SIN, the hornset refer to him as an ipocrite, why? because they have been massacred by the most sacred, rare of their own keen: the beeing that recived the most noble of the crucible blessing, the one of the divinity itself, the winged serpent. than as we see in the trailer marika killed that divinity and ripped the elden ring from her body to ascend to godhood and shape the world as she wanted. seduction and betrayl of a god, thats what the original sin in. and that why marika goes that far to hide messmer and that world where everything happened, messmer curse is similar to mogh and morgott, a revenge from the people she massacred (melina is a curse from the dusk eyed queen that maliket defieted for her i believe but never get explained). Messmer insted was far too "special" to be just kept underground, he had to be hidden from the whole world and marika set him up to do this himself! Elden ring is the story of the most influential, powerful and clever beeing that ever walked the lands between, marika the eternal, her sins her victories and her will that we as a tanished just follow blindly. its always been her and it will always be, at least until she eventually decides to destroy herself (the main game story) only marika can kill marika. this is all speculation tho i could be complitely wrong XD
Love this theory, it's way more consistent that messmer's origins are the original sin, considering how much of the crucible is in him.@@gaussjordan0
in fact Order and gold are explicitly not interchangeable, since the minor erdtree incant references gold without order
@@human_supremacist yeah I agree with you, I was just steel manning that potential argument
I agree with your other points, but the Erdtree seed +2 talisman shows an image of the Fingers cradling the Erdtree seed, which does suggest their involvement. Whereas the normal talismans in the base game probably represent seeds cast off from the Erdtree itself, the +2 probably represents the original seed of THE Erdtree.
That said it's debatable how much they were actually involved. Marika deciding to create the Erdtree was probably a product of her native culture and religion (which seemed to involve tree-worship) more than anything else.
Also the image of the Fingers in the +2 talisman can be seen in the Godskin sigil, which suggests to me the Fingers doing what they always do - Support every candidate, and when one wins pretend that their ascension was your divine mandate.
Malenia is also an empyrean who should have also been given a shadow bound beast ; I’m not too sold that she’s miquella’s shadow
Nah I don't think she's Miquella's shadow
Then why wasn't she given a shadow bound beast?
@@TheStrengthScholar one of those things we don’t have answers to ; but we know as an established rule that once a Demi god is chosen as an empyrean they get a shadow bound beast, I think maybe we find miquella and Malenia without one bc they inherently seek to defy the Erdtree so they must have been murdered once the haligtree plan was set in motion
Yeah, it could also be due to the fact that they were twins and born with defects. I personally think they were made artificially from Marika's Animus and Radagon's Anima, that's why they're opposites, completary and a parody of their respective opposite gender party.
Malenia isn’t a shadow bound beast. She has her own two fingers on top of her divine tower when you get her great rune. If she was just a shadow she would probably not have gotten her own great rune like Miquella.
Melenia is an Empyrean. She cannot be a shadow as she would have one herself.
Also: The statue seems to me to be more of a Romulus and Remus parallel. After all, there had to be some legend where she received her shadow.
i blieve malenia was born at the same time and of the some womb of miquella to be his shadow , given 2 him at birth , malenia is only "empyrean" by extension and doesnt have her own shadow ... culd b wrong tho but clearly they do not hav a "shadow" that has been introduced thus far
@@guro9072 "each chosen by our own two fingers" - did she stutter??
Many theorists have suggested that the Greater Will exists and wishes for order, in whatever form it takes at the time. The ancient dragons, the golden order, both very different. However, it doesn’t matter what form this order takes, the Greater Will accepts it. This is why dragon communion does not oppose (and is actually semi-encouraged) in the golden order. Therefore the Greater Will represents Order, and thus is the god of order. Marika herself did not birth order when she ascended to godhood. She only took it upon herself, like one inherits the Flame of Frenzy. More on that below.
Then there is chaos. I am certain that frenzied flame is more than just another Outer God. 1) there is no bleed ending, or scarlet rot ending, etc etc. Only frenzied flame. 2) no other status ailment has a set of fingers, like the 2 or 3 fingers. The Frenzy’s 3 Fingers are extremely significant. 3) Melina practically begs you to stay away from it, and the Golden Order deeply condemns any connection to the frenzied flame. This is because it directly opposes Order in a way that no other worldly element comes close. It even has a set of 3 fingers, which symbolically fills the full hand when combined with the Greater Will’s 2 Fingers. It is not a physical thing (which unfortunately made many people turn away from the idea entirely) but is metaphysical and thematic. The Flame of Frenzy is the direct opposite to the Greater Will, continuing with the theme of opposites. It is Chaos, the other half of the Greater Will. They are on equal footing with each other, unlike the other Outer Gods that do not oppose each other and are lesser Gods compared with the Greater Will and Frenzy.
The Crucible is the primordial form of the Erdtree, which itself became a symbol of the Golden Order. At this time however, there was no order within it, and so no chaos arose to match it. When Marika inherited the order of the Greater Will, she allowed the Flame of Frenzy to make its return as she made the Golden Order, condemning the Crucible as it did not represent order. Using propaganda it was turned into an uncomfortable and unfortunate subject that was made out to be a bad time. Thus the Erdtree became. There is a reason the Erdtree reaches high into the heavens, and the 3 Fingers of the Frenzied Flame is buried deep below, hidden in an attempt to bury their heads in the sand and act like it doesn’t exist. Marika did not split the Crucible into Order and Chaos, she merely enabled Order and Chaos to make their return into the world, after their decay, after the fall of the Ancient Dragons when their god abandoned them.
Order and chaos by definition are opposed, like dark and light, warm and cold. Order represents diversity of life, souls, feelings. Chaos is absence of all of things, while everything is one, without the differentiation of life, The One Great. Thats why Ranni don’t dissolve the Order, just take it away, she knows how life itself is deeply connected with the order, i wonder if guys like Goldmask know about this connection to life and order.
@@TheAuspiciousGoldmask I’m not sure, I believe the One Great is in a time eons ago, when the Greater Will and Flame of Frenzy were not yet separate beings. Then at some point they split and the Greater Will attempted to make harmony, order. When it did this, the Frenzied Flame thus had to respond with every sin, every curse, as Hyetta says. The mistake she mentions the GW making was attempting to create order, because this very act caused Chaos to be made in it’s stead
@@SpremeCalami "All that there is came from the One Great.
Then came fractures,
and births,
and souls.
But the Greater Will made a mistake.
Torment, despair, affliction...
every sin, every curse.
Every one, born of the mistake”-
Hyetta herself says that the one great came before life and souls, she very much says “all that there is” so i believe that The One Great is the most primitive form of the world, then the greater will created life in amidst the chaos, “we are the children of the greater will” like ymir says, “born of stardust”, but not any stardust, the stardust of the Elden Star containing beast that would become the Elden Ring, often mentioned as: “creator of life” or “giver of life”, the mistake of the greater will was to create diversity in life, when we analyze what hyetta says. Thats just my theory tho.
@@TheAuspiciousGoldmask decent theory, but I think the One Great was less chaos and more a lack of any order, like the crucible. Then when the Greater Will made life with the purpose of it creating societies and order, it too inadvertently made something that opposes that order. Life is full of torment, despair and affliction and without these things, life in the Lands Between wouldn’t be. It’s why the Frenzied Flame is the answer for so many that wish for the pain and suffering to end. Because it burns away all that there is, burning away life and ending the suffering in the process.
@@SpremeCalami i see the one great as a amalgamation of everything, the frenzied flame can melt everything, life and souls, i like to imagine it as the primordial soup, that existed a long time ago in our planet, a chaotic ambient with raging thunder storms and volcanos, until the meteor containing life and water stroke the earth, after millenniums of the planet itself getting colder and that water being in contact with numerous nutrients and heat, it formed a prone ambient to life exist.
I embrace my shadow, and that is why I use the mimic tear
Isn't it a little weird to say that duality originated from Marika when the Alabaster and Onyx Lords were already known to be some of the first lifeforms on the planet ages before she ever existed? Surely the concepts of chaos and order predated Marika's reign, along with a whole bunch of other conflicting opposites.
Small problem malenia is an empyrean not a shadow
Exactly. She's also not a wolf man lol.
@@dksu true, however as he explains in another video, Malenia is the protective side of the inner child, and Miquella is the innocent inner child, they are twins but also almost the same being, they are two halves of the same coin, different yet intertwined, the reason they dont have a shadow is because they havent had their personality fractured yet from trauma, their shadows havent been created yet. So they are both eachothers shadows, the sides of themselves theyve burried and reflect one another
I think her original sin was casting off her mortality all at once and using him as her lord consort to ascend to godhood. This would explain why Messmer is a spitting image of Radagon and not Godfrey…
I think Messmer's boss theme is the same as Radagon's
@@tabakhiin it is
Using who? Don't just say him
@@elibrainless90 If you read the second sentence it's clear I am talking about Radagon.
@@Nostradevus1are u saying radagon is her mortality?
You forgot that Miyazaki confirmed that Messmer is also an Empyrean. I think there’s some other criteria that were missing that determines who becomes an Empyrean.
I also seem to remember that shadowbound beasts are half-wolves or at least humanoid animals. Not sure why we only see Marika’s and Ranni’s Shadow, a few more might have cleared up some confusion but maybe the others hadn’t received theirs yet or they just flat out killed them so they wouldn’t be trouble. :/
Oh, holy shit! That's why Rellana was so in love with him.
You really caught my attention with the Endings video project; you seem to be getting to a very interesting point with Ranni staying fractured.
And I really need to get this off my chest: Marika's braids, the Elden Stars incantation, the ancient Elden Ring in Maliketh's arena, all of them have the form of the "crucible current" in them, the twin spiral. Marika was clearly aligned, or originated in, the crucible. She turned the crucible into this order. Or rather, she needed to impose her order onto the crucible;she broke it and molded it and separated it into "good" and "bad", acceptable and unacceptable, order and chaos.
@@allthe1 I agree with this a lot, she betrayed the hornsent who elevated her to godhood, instead of ascending the spiral she sealed destined death, traumatized by the events of the bonnie village and possibly her daughter's death. This is when the split occured and how lands of shadow came to exist (it was all lands between before that). That is the "betrayal" and the original sin and the very motive which miyazaki puts into every single dark souls/bloodborne/sekiro
@@mikeekim8567 I certainly believe Marika's past trauma determined her actions. But I a not convinced she tried to avenge or protect her own people...
In Enir Ilim the bodies piled up at the beginning of the area have no horns. Maybe she betrayed everyone and gave her own people in sacrifice, splitting herself completely from her emotions, from her physical body, and completely identifying with her oppressors, even usurping them, repeating their atrocities in the Lands of the Erdtree, although in another form. Warriors seem to be little more than sacrifies in her order, and priests and cleric have high authority, in opposition to the warrior rulers and priest sacrifices of the Hornsent.
I'm not totally convinced, since there is so little evidence, but that's definitely a possibility imo 🥲
Sounds sinful to me
@@allthe1to me it makes more sense if Enir Ellim was built by the hornsent, what sacrifice is better than non-hornsent to build a tower to the gods? But then these hornless ppl lack the divine crucible spark so they needed their own to make the actual gate. Imo she didn’t make the gate but stole it
@@mikeekim8567 it's also reminiscent of biblical mythology, where the "original sin" is the fact that by eating the Apple of Knowledge, Eve basically brought disparity into the world by introducing the notions of good and evil. Until she did that, there was no good and evil, there only was.
I think I disagree that Blaidd being warm and kind is opposite to ranni. She goes out of her way to give us the spirit calling bell despite her movements being taxing, she genuinely loves both Blaidd and iji, she gives in and talks to us if u talk to her doll only just 3 times as opposed to the 4 times it took st. Trina, who is considered compassionate, and she even decides to let you live if u try to give her the amber shard. She says that it is all selivus’ idea and that u were mearly mislead by him. Pretty warm, compassionate and understanding in my opinion. I think that is what gives her ending so much more power. She is willing to doom herself to eternal loneliness to rid the world of gods playing with men. However, she finds late into her journey that she doesn’t have to go alone. She gets us. Her consort.
That's an interesting perspective. 4 is like a homonym in Japanese for death. And she only talks to you after the 4th death. I'm not sure what that could mean, but it's a neat observation.
I would like to add to the Ranni/Blaidd opposites.
Ranni's main thing is rebellion and doing everything she can to be free of any influence above her.
While Blaidd is the loyalty and subservience personified.
Even after going mad and being betrayed he continued to protect his master.
I personally believe all of marikas children are reflections of herself. They are different aspects and actions commited, manifested as a new person,one who may potentially be a new god or elden lord in the next age. Miquella was the last, and messmer was the first. Yet all failures, her great great great great great grandchildren would userp them all.
It does seem like they are just the old time and again Seven Deadly Sins Guys.
Possibly one success - Ranni, of course, can literally ascend to godhood with her own Lord. She's the only one who's scheme represents an ending path rather than a boss fight. Of the other Empyreans, Malenia just wanted to follow Miquella, and Miquella already had a Lord chosen. So he was an obstacle.
Yep from the pot process she is culmination of many beings. Radagons red hair always left me stumped but now I get it. I find it interesting the lamenter form has red hair on it as well making me believe it came from the pot too
@@House_of_Green red hair is curse of the giants, rsdagon used to have golden hair as well, until he massacred giants that is
If you believe that marika was born from the hornsent then it makes sense that each of marikas children each have an aspect of the parts marika is made up of. Maybe when the hornsent were creating marika they threw a aspect of the serpent into the jar and so when Mesmer was born that’s why he was born with a serpent it’s because she had serpent in her dna, or marika used Mesmer as a way to disregard the serpent aspect of herself because she clearly hated who she was. Marika did not want to become a god and she was forcefully turned into one so when she found out the truth of how she was created she was pissed and did everything she could to disregard those aspects of herself such as the serpent that she hated and maybe used Mesmer as a way to disregard that part of herself.
Im not sold so much on this..
Marika's actions - She found matyr, mother of fingers through the finger horn located just past her village. She became an empyrean, went back to her village, found the hornsent, seduced the leader of the horn sent (Empyrean Grandames son), gave the location of the village to them in trade to gain their trust, and then killed them in their sleep. She tried to undo what she did, set up hospitals to attempt to remove the shamans from the jars (beds in shadow keep basement) to no avail, went back to the village, saw no one, left her erd tree incantation, left her braid and confession, then sealed away hte lands of shadow.
09:05
I'm not sure I agree with this analysis to be honest.
Ronni had a beast _gifted_ to her by the two fingers. Same with Marika. We can even see in Farum Azula the statue of the Lady with Three Wolves beneath the primordial sigil of the Elden Ring. Something has always granted Empyreans their Shadowbound Beast; they didn't just _exist_ with them.
Personally, I feel that because of the natural duality or split between Marika/Radagon has cursed their children to appear in two physical forms as well. Personally, I speculate that this takes the form of Mohg/Morgott, Rykard/Radahn, and Miquella/Melania. You can even see this dualism through their great runes. Mohg and Morgott's runes perfectly overlay one another, same with Rykard's and Radahn's.
A Shadowbound Beast, imho, is part of some other ritual that is something more primordial in nature.
An interesting thing to note is the statue of the wolves and the girl. It is in the same place where the beastmen can be found. The 2 opposites, being feral wolfishness and purity/intelligence, are the 2 parts that, when combined, produce the beastmen. Strange that this very specific statue is only found in the same place where wolf-human hybrids can be found. In the context of halves being seperared, it is very strange indeed.
You make such a good point with the runes. There's a split there. Strangely there seems to be separate events for removing and sealing the rune of death. Which is significant.
@@teahousereloaded
I want to believe that, as the OP kinda hints at but doesn't focus on, that the Original Sin was one of severance. From, as a thematic company, really likes their Dualism after all.
Imagine that before the Original Sin two halves lived in relative equality. I want to believe that when Marika was taking the Gold from that fleshy thing, she was quite literally taking the gold aspect out of the shadow. In this sense; think of a Yin Yang where the Yang takes that little white dot out of Yin. In this, I feel like Marika took the Light out of Dark (stealing what would essentially be an aspect of herself even (golden hair)) and condemned the dark to be forever "weaker" as she would still have that ounce of Dark within herself. Thus, granting her a more complete existence while condemning her death-based rival to exist perpetually weaker.
This surfaces in her children, as many of them are dichotomously split in two to represent the fact that she is falsely taking two halves to make a whole. She has tried her hardest to combine opposition within herself and become a perfect being, but everything is based on a flaw..or even madness.
@@teahousereloaded If marika created duality, and that results in the overlaying great runes, that are two opposite parts of the same thing (Yin and Yang) what would be the opposite of death? It would be life... If you would get rid of, or seal death, life would not be able to exist on its own... So... sealing the rune of death to make life an eternal thing with no opposite, might be the primordial sin... because it should not be possible... it is against an Order... or it would result in some kind of „life in death“...
@@VultureXV hey to add to this, the Crucible is represented by a blending of red and gold (can't remember the shield that shows this, but it's there).
When we look at the statues in the Roundtable Hold and Leyndell Highway, the man is holding a shoot growing a golden flower which is springing up from other shoots.
This is clear imagery for when the Golden Erdtree, the representation of the Golden Order, emerged from the Crucible.
We also know that the Golden Order was formed when Marika plucked the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring and confined it to Malekith's Blade.
So, my theory is that Marika's sin was betraying the people and avatar of the Crucible (the GEQ or serpent God? Something else?) and essentially pulling out the Golden grace of life from the Crucible itself. In a sense, she leaves this culture and foundation of creation Tarnished to create her own order.
This also allows her to justify the purging of an entire land, and why runes and spirits in the land of Shadow are black.
It's also interesting that the Rune of Death is Black and Red.
The way you explain Marika here resembles the Gnostic Sophia and her sin of creating this flawed world that is mired in suffering.
Malenia is an Empyrian also Ranni tells us only her miquella and malenia were the only suitable hiers to the Elden Ring
not the elden ring, godhood ascension
Marika learned how to be a saint via the Hornsent’s jar ritual, then turned it against them: she slaughtered the entire race and built the gate of divinity as a mega-jar that allowed her to transcend sainthood and become a God. She just needed a bigger jar with more bodies. Whatever the Hornsent figured out with jar, she perfected it by melting an entire race together to become a God. Perhaps becoming a God means splitting yourself into a Godly half and a Shadow half.
I think so too, all the remembrances say they were hewn together in their respective trees..
If you believe the Elden Beast only arrived during Marika's age I'm curious how you reconcile the depiction of the Elden Ring in Farum Azula, as well as Placidusax being himself an Elden Lord. The ancient dragons as a whole have an incredibly strong connection to the Greater Will, and seemed to have their own equivalent God to Marika. This clashes pretty heavily with the idea that Marika was the sole vessel through which the Greater Will exerted the concept of Order on the world. I feel like this is ironically making Marika a grander more important piece of the overall cosmology than she actually is. I dont feel the presence of that statue is a concrete enough explanation of anything to assert that Marika must have been present in Farum Azula, when it equally as possible Maliketh erected that statue as a remembrance of his sister given its placement in his arena. Moreover i just flat out do not understand the connection you're attempting to make with the by suggesting that Marika is somehow the One Great, even if in a strictly metaphorical sense. The splitting of the One Great is the origin of life, and births as a concept, I cant possibly see how Marika doing her thing at the Gate well into the development of civilized society can be considered tantamount to the primordial origin of life itself.
I agree. The statue of Marika right below the ancient Elden Ring depiction itself might be a more recent addition. Maliketh or one of his servants must've built it after he moved in after The Shattering.
Queen Marika the Eternal is my favorite wanton strumpet
@TheCenteredTarnished I really appreciate that you are exploring the psychological themes that Elden Ring, especially that Marika can help us explore.
I have a question though: you state that in the Age of the Crucible that there isn’t an opposing concept. May I ask what about the numerous hints and concepts around Death and its numerous rituals in the time before the Erdtree don’t make Death an opposing force to the Crucible? Especially if the Crucible is a powerful, life giving force? I still think both of these forces were indiscriminate and therefore without order. I just wonder if there is something more to explore, here?
Malenia is definitely not Miquellas shadow, more holes in that theory than swiss cheese.
I dont think Ranni made the greater mistake out of her and Miquella. What Ranni did was trying to be independent from the forces around her at all costs. What Miquella did was far worse. He did not only "betray his shadow". He has forsaken everything that binds him to this world in an effort to save it. He betrayed his own nature because he was too afraid he could make the same mistakes as his mom. And unlike Ranni thats why he ultimately failed. You can't achieve an Age of Compassion without Love and you can't save the world when nothing binds you to it.
I still think her great betrayal us Using the Crucible to make the Erdtree/Shadowtree. Honrsent would abosolutly hate that.
are you saying there was no opposition before the Elden Beast arrived, there was no day and night?
order in ER seems more about beings Of a world, becoming self-aware of causation and starting to develop a desire for control to influence the seemingly "unorderly" organic flow surrounding one. order = cuntrol
As a gloam eyed Melina fan, I love the idea that the GEQ is cast off from Marika. As much as I also love the butterfly theory, I've never subscribed to the idea that Melina's hair is just "faded red" (as a Melina cosplayer I can tell you that not even FromSoft can agree on what her hair color is lol). So I really like that your theory aligns with the idea that Melina is a "daughter" of Marika while also solving the puzzle of who her dad is (no one, but also Marika at the same time).
Elden Ring 2 Scholar of the First Sin
chaos by its very nature is disorder. So you have to be more specific. What you are saying is Zero, or absolute zero. If order is +10, chaos is -10, zero is dead center.
Blaid does not die when we kill the shadow bound beast. Whether he goes insane from the act after or he is unable to comprehend why it is only after Ranni kills her two fingers do we have to kill Blaid.
Man I just want to say I adore the lens you view the game through. I look forward to every new video from you, and every video convinced me more and more.
The sins of Marika are very good indeed. Miquella is just trying to sin more. 😂
You are mistaken cuz melenia isnt the shadow bound beast of miquella its stated in game that miquella’s other half was St. Trina and that both miquella and melenia was born as twins melenia even has her own separate 2 Fingers when you get her great rune
While I agree Melania isn't Miquella's shadowbound beast, it is assumed that both she and her brother would've shared their 2 fingers since they were twins, much like Mohg and Morgott
Marika by birth was a red haired powerless shaman, from the bottommost sect of the hornsent society. But she was special because she was chosen as an empyrean from the shaman people by her two fingers. Marika in her desperation, fear, and anger towards the hornsent manifested this other self that is Radagon. She was then instructed by her two fingers to use Radagon to commit an act of blasphemy which would later grant her significant power..
Now the hornsent were an advanced civilization that worshipped the crucible, created the gates of divinity by blending life forms together to emulate the crucible, and ultimately succeeded in accessing the powers of the crucible. The hornsent were strongly connected to the godskin. It was the godskin that aided the blending of lifeforms by skinning and making up those gates of corpses. The leader of the godskin, the golden haired gloam eyed queen was the god of the time and represented the crucible. You see crucible like features on the goskin nobles and apostles (tail, crucible like incantations etc). The godskin also had some kind of association with serpents as we have seen a godskin noble at the temple of Eglay.
Here is what Marika and her two fingers plotted: Marika would use Radagon, a powerful and charming champion to seduce and have an affair with the gloam eyed queen. Once seduced, the gloam eyed queen birthed two red haired children, Messmer and Melina. Marika was also bestowed upon a powerful shadow by the two fingers, Maliketh. Once the children were born, Marika would use the opportunity to assassinate the gloam eyed queen using Maliketh. Marika would then pluck out the golden rune of the gloam eyed queen as shown from the trailer. This rune resided within the golden hair of the gloam eyed queen (You see that the body from which the hair is removed looks like godskin and the sky in the scene looks like a golden sky is about to replace a previous gloam colored sky). Marika would therefore assume godhood and would become the golden haired queen.
The seduction, the affair and the betrayal is what lead to gold arising through Marika. And so was shadow born. I think shadow here also refers to the two children Messmer and Melina. Messmer inherited the black flame (Black pyrefly) and serpentine natures from his mother and Melina inherited the gloam eyes and destined death. Marika would seal both of these away. The golden braid that Marika left to the grandmother before she left her village forever, which is her prayer and confession, is simply a part of the same golden hair that she tore off from the gloam eyed queen for the great rune. Marika became a golden haired god but Radagon would remain red haired. The red hair reminded Marika of her sin which is why Radagon always hated his hair.
Melina was born at the foot of the erdtree.
I think that seeing elden ring in terms of dualities, or as one may call it, dicothomies is a vert enlightening perspective.
It reminds me of a certain story, and a thesis written on ir, the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.
Wait the threads coming from radagons hammer are the same threads marika holds up
Guys let’s just be honest here. We need atleast one more DLC. There are still so many questions without any slither of an actual answer or lore.
@ripthonx I completely agree with you but not sure they will however either
The zeroth dynasty was the age of Dragons. They had contact with the outer god of primordial raw power. They ruled for a time.
Many peoples had kingdoms all over the Lands Between, never all unified, never all conquered. The Storm King, Raya Lucaria, Calid, Mountain top of the giants. The Shadow Lands were and are a part of the Lands Between. Merica vailed the Shadow Lands, separating it form the LB, no longer seen. This happened when she caused the third impact at the gate of divinity (see more info bellow). With that action she hid thousands of years of ancient history, almost completely lost.
The first people to rise to power in the lands between were the dynasty of spirals, they created the spiral city (Enir Ilim). They worshipped the crucible which rose up as a Great spiraled tree. The spiraled people made the gate of divinity and caused the first impact, someone ascended to godhood by contacting an outer god, likely the god of spirals. They ruled for a time.
Then the Knox people took over. They used the gate of divinity to cause the second impact. They contacted the outer god of Knox, this god had gravity defying power, someone ascended to godhood. The Knox added gravity defying architecture to the spiral city after taking it from the spiral dynasty. They kept the Great Sprial tree. The Knox dynasty (2nd) spread across the Lands Between establishing the cities of Knoxstella, Knoxron, and the Namless city.
The horn sent were guided by the outer god of the crucible which now gave beast powers like horns and wings. The horn sent took over the spiraled city from the Knox. They took over the Sprialed Great tree. They started to get the gate of divinity ready to welcome the outer god of the crucible and (disordered) beast powers.
But Merica, a slave, betrayed their hopes. As a slave Merica never had loyalty to the horn sent so this betrayal was one sided, for her it was just revenge. She also had Mesmer during a relationship with a serpent beast crucible being. Merica destroyed the horn sent's plans and did the exact opposite. She welcomed the outer god of order (the Greater Will) as opposed to the disordered horny crucible outer god.
Merica took over, she sacrificed the hornsent at the gate of divinity, she caused the third impact by contacting the outer god of the Greater Will of Golden Order, and ascended to godhood. She did not conquer the spiraled city from the horn sent, no she wanted to destroy all previous history, all previous dynasties erased, she was going to start over, new and fresh, with the Greater Will. She would restructure the Lands Between and fully conquer it in the third Dyansty.
Then Merica with the Greater Will, cut the roots of the great spiral crucible tree, stole the roots and grafted them onto the new Erdtree, stole the crucible current power of this world, feeding the Erdtree and gaining ultimate power over the Lands Between, the Scaduetree (aka sprial tree) has been dieing eversince. She also destroyed destined death which was a designed part of the old crucible sprial great tree.
In her conquest she vailed the ancient lands now called the shadow lands. True destined death still exists in the Shadow Lands. She established the Third Dyansty. She banished the Knox into the ground similar to the Shadow Lands. Merica's Golden order ruled for a time, until we, the tarnished are called to determine the fourth dynasty. We can also help Miquella start the fourth impact to welcome in his godhood and the dyansty (4th) of compassion.
These notes are rough, some things are wrong, but this is the big picture (ancient history) I see.
Yeah, I fully agree with the big picture stuff here. There's a good deal of evidence to support at least 2 other dynasties before Marika, and it's a safe bet that the Nox are part of one of them. There's evidence of 3 different, distinct, types of bodies in and around the gate of the divinity. The 1st layer, no horns, seem to be flash burnt, hardened, and frozen in time, expression and all. The 2nd layer, some evidence of horns, but not what I would call hornsent, is similar to the first. And then there's the actual hornsent, who crumble to dust on walking over them, despite likely being the newest of the corpses there.
The only real question I had, is where does Placi fit in with all of it? Before there was even a gate of divinity? Between one of the others? Hard to say.
Pretty good theory mate, but as you stated yourself, some of the details need clarity. Such as the nature of the Gods of each dynasty. Though we don't get really any info on that, so vague guesses are all we get.
I also really don't get the vibe that Marika was ever a slave, and I don't subscribe to the theory that she was ever part of the hornsent's experiments personally. She either watched her entire village be kidnapped and butchered, and was the lone survivor; or, she sacrificed them in exchange for access to Godhood. Likely, the former, since she left the braid, confession, and minor erdtree behind in her village.
IMO, her "betrayal" of the hornsent was about how they taught her about the gate of divinity, and how it works, and she turned her back on their beliefs when she achieved Godhood. Later, (it's stated that the hornsent were allowed to continue as before, under her rule, "for a time") she has them exterminated in a "holy crusade", sealing both them and Messmer away, killing 2 birds with one stone.
Overall, pretty cool to compare notes on the topic though! You're one of the few I've seen that has the same idea about dynasties and Gods before Marika.
i believe that removing death from the golden order is what made the greater will abandon the two previous elden lords marika and placidusax as the name suggest golden order i assume it must have living and death in its order otherwise the greater will will look for another elden lord who has the moral capacity to accept the fate of living and death
This has a lot of parallels to Dareloth's Prisoner Theory, and also makes a lot of sense as to why there was so much corruption in Marika's bloodlines compared to Hornsent and other religious groups prior to her takeover - When a Demigod birthing happens you're splitting a Whole Divinity, thus "divinity" seeks out other divinity to pair with for each to be birthed "pseudo-whole." The other groups embraced and accepted imperfection of self and allowed temporary possession/wholistic completion through their faiths by becoming like their Spiritual Ideologies, Hornsent growing Spiral-like horns, Tree/Flower worshippers becoming flowers, etc.
This also supports the Haemonculi Theory that the Demigod children (including, likely, Tarnished) may also not alive-births, but Shamanistic Haemonculi being attempted to perfect Marika's wrongs, and the Tarnished and Godfrey are 'hollowed' allowing us to absorb/conplete ourselves however we choose, being originally viewed as both valid option to move forward with, but a gamble when they could attempt a more complete-condensed whole with a better starting point than "just a person." We are a Tarnished Jar, the perfected techniques the Hornsent and others used imperfect forms of to mash together those who had the necessary qualities for completeness.
Interesting take that the fracture within Marika reflects that of the universe (order/chaos). This would reflect the “As above, so below” saying
This also reflects perfectly and ironically on Miquella as despite all of his compassion and tight scheme ,he ends up repeating the mistake and casting away his other half, granted he didnt "seal" it but when you think about it its very similar to how coping works in real life; fear and indifference can both be used and indifference ilcan be seen as neglect ,the same way he neglects his other half and in doing so ,repeats the mistake due to fear that his love/hate could ruin the plan but it's exactly the confrontation of that fear that undoes the sin and makes us whole.
Gunna have to disagree on the example of Melenia, she never rejected the qualities that went against her destined age of Rot, rather she embraced them, evidence is her very fighting style, her use of unalloyed gold limbs, and how much she loves her brother who IS himself both Empyrian and the opposite of her age. With that said, I have reason to think Miquella and Melenia never got Shadow Bound Beasts from the 2 fingers. Both rejected, for their own related reasons, the Golden Order and the two Fingers. As such, any Shadow Bound Beast they would have had, would have gone mad LONG before the shattering. Basically when Miquella started growing his own Urd tree, he should have been on the Two Finger’s list, but given the precautions he and Melenia took, they survived into the Shattering War, where things took the turn they did. All that said, interesting theory overall, certainly worth thinking about.
brilliant perspective on the role/constitution of The Empyrean Shadows
8:00 correction. Malenia is the twin of Miquella. Maliketh is being cursed only after the rune of death is being bound in his body. Malenia's curse on the other hand same as all children of Marika was given by birth. Also about Malenia's shadow and Miquella shadow. We didn't saw Miquella's shadow but we saw Malenia's SHADOWS in the forn of her "children" in Milicent quest line.
Interesting ideas, specially the ones about opposites. But i disagree. As others stated Malenia is also an empyrean, but besides that im struggling to understand how can Marika be the great one or even be from the begining.
It's explicitly stated she is a Numen, and came from the shaman village, this places her origins as much more humble in nature and not ever present.
She can't be the great one from the beginning, and then at some point become a god later, that doesn't make sense.
And regarding the order and opposition concepts, its weird to believe that pre-marika there was no "order", as in the literal meaning of the word. Civilizations pre-marika existed, with their own cultures and notions of order. Marika just established her own concept of order, a very flawed one even as all the metyr lore implies.
To me it's actually simpler, the great one is just a name to the state of the universe pre-big bang, and after this primordial explosion of life everything was created, including opposites, the greater will, outer gods, etc.
In that sense the crucible is closer to the great one, and what happens in the lands between is more of a local repetition of what happened cosmically.
Theres a lot missing here to make this theory sound.
1) Messmer had a huge army from Leyendell with him to massacre the hornsent. Meaning the original sin happened way after she had become a god. (Supported both by Messmer and Gaius' descriptions).
2) we dont know Malenias devotion to Miquella and Mohgs new revelation in the DLC only brings further the likelihood she isnt his shadow.
3) if it was the original sin, what about the tons of other sins that happened before her ascension?
Lack of order = chaos. It is in lack of order that anything takes a chaotic structure.
This is a certified banger oh my god dude
Malenia is not a beast so that destroys that theory lol
Always assumed Melina was the GEQ, but after the dlc I'm going more towards Marika, or Marika's "St. Trina" hence the putrid knight being called "gloam eyed knight" in the files. Miquella's actions are basically a replica of Marika, so that corpse in the trailer might be one of Marika's aspect and the geq. I say this also mainly cause:
1) The Dominula festivities seem to be sanctioned by the golden order and are a respected ritual. Why marika would keep this gruesome ritual?
2 godskin are explicitly said to kill gods, not demigods, just gods. Basically what Marika's did to hornsent.
3 the weird veil behind her statues (which i feel is what we see in the trailer) has the same symbols the godskin carry on their aprons. Why would the godskin carry her symbol? Seems like the statues symbolize her discarding the gloam-eyed queen identity.
4 their rituals of skinning and absorbing characteristics of their victims seem akin to the shamans abilities, except used in a proper way and not forced and instrumentalized.
5 the godskin have all Marika's and the shamans' proportions and have no horns.
6 the geq and the godskin all show symbols connected to metyr herself, indicating a direct alliance. Also the godskin seem to imitate in their aesthetic the lampreys, maybe some form of worship or tactic the same way norse warrior would wear wolf pelt over their heads.
7) Messmer and the base serpent show characteristics of godskin, down to him carrying serpentine characteristics of the crucible.
8) this is more of an assumption, the eiglay skin in bonny. One godskin noble worship the eiglay's skin in volcano manor, so perhaps the shamans carry serpentine characteristics of the crucible, while the hornsent just the horns. Example are the jar insides looking basically like the insides of the god-eating serpents, their ability to extend a "maw" looking like a grown version of the small tendrils inside rykard and coveringn his sword, the jar shamans' flesh carrying rancor like the snakes, and the weird "rope" formations around enir-ilim and the divine gate similar to both snake skeletons and the snakes surrounding the body pillars in rykard's arena. So bonny's serpent skin might belong to a shaman.
9) if Marika is the Elden beast, then her weapon being the sacred relic sword makes sense as she is returning to her original fighting style.
There is so many errors in these theories that i won't bother to debate, great video tho thanks ❤
Haha kind of a backhanded compliment but I’ll take it
@@CenteredTarnished thats what i love about you. Great videos, presentation and personality 😁.
Keep up the hard work
What a weird thing to say
What a weird thing to say
Yeah me too. All those people projecting their personal obsessions on the game is becoming really boring. Wost of all I think are all those self-proclaimed ''alchemists'' who have no Idea about alchemy, and are pushing and gatekeeping their weird theory about Marika beeing an alchemical ''rebis''.
Always the small channels pumping out the best content
Please do a video on the mother of the fingers after finding out all of the lore surrounding it.
Also please do a video on the ancient dragons.
And this video was…….. Ok.
haha ok
thanks for the video you earned a subscribe......keep growing bro!
The way you described non-order was kinda tao'esk or zazen'esk. Fits well with the games inner logic.
I don't think Marika necessarily "splits" herself, but rather splits the Crucible, or at least rebels against the Greater Will's way of doing things, incurring their wrath as the Elden Beast crashes into the Lands Between. Her Kindness of Gold, without Order would point to her indiscriminate way of helping the souls of the dead, find their transformative reincarnation, free of judgement by the Greater Will. I feel there a lot of deception in the lore, attempts at hiding the truth behind a veil of shadow.
I wonder, if every shadowbound beast is characterized by their loyalty, does that imply that each empyrean is characterized by their treachery (at least to the current ruling order)? Bringing about a new age does require an innovation, and to enact such would need you to overturn the concurrent societal system in some way or another, if not in its totality.
Miquella’s “Shadow” can be fought in the rift where he through Saint Trina away. The white Misbegotten mini boss
Where is this?
@@rawgamesnippets9412 The giant subterranean pit that leads to the Putrescent Knight boss.
the idea that shadowbounds are somehow part of the character that empyreans lose in order to ascend to godhood is kinda silly. If its death for marika then wouldn’t it have to be something like faith for ranni, and not a part of her personality. Otherwise each one gets treated differently and therefore any attempt to theorycraft just falls flat
Always had this idea that the frenzy and the crucible were related. I remember a dialogue of the frenzy maiden that the frenzy flame wants to melt all back into a single thing. And the crucible was this one single thing that was everything.
the direct opposite of order is chaos, lack of order is a description of what chaos is
Just found this channel and im thiroughly impressed with these videos. the way these obtuse ideas are brought together in such a well thought out use symbols snd themes is amazing
You could go even further into Miquella and Malenia being antithetical to each other, as Miquella represents bounty/abundance while Malenia is decay and its links to rot. Furthermore, Miquella seeks godhood and accepts his role to ascend to his apotheosis at any costs (as we see in the Shadow of the Erdtree narrative), while Malenia thematically encapsulates resistance in all forms, and in particular a resistance against becoming the goddess of rot, a direct contrast to Miquella's desire to attain godhood. It's a great thematic clash, how these twins represent opposites so thoroughly.
I feel as if the fingers were too weak to create multiple shadows, so they picked the one who had the highest chance of being the next god.
1:53 "You can't have Light without Dark", Heat without Cold, or Life without Death.
Hey CT,
So the statue of the girl and the three wolves, in this interpretation would be:
Marika
Life
Death
Chaos?
So by Marika committing the original sin of removing the rune of death she created shadow and order… then the true opposite of order was also born which is chaos (frenzy flame)? Possibly the unintended consequence of her mess…
Is this what the NPCs mean when they say Marika cursed them all?
I’m still unclear about the three fingers and where they fit here with this interpretation. Everything else is very coherent and you even threw in a totally different timeline from the current accepted timeline smoothly. Very impressive, and it’s why I’m a big fan of your videos. Keep it up man!
The original sin are the serpents. If you read messmers helmet description and messmers rememberance you can piece it together.
i could see FS drawing that parallel - duality being the original sin, what with adam n eve knowing good from bad wrecking everything going forward
If by your theory of Malenia being a shadow bound beast, then Malekith and Blaidd would also be empyreans, which is never implied.. My guess is they just decided to use his sister as part of the duality because they're twins. Probably not much more to it.
Indeed it's too bad for Blaidd. One detail tho, when we become Ranni's consort, we became also become her complementary one. That why in the items description it is written that she resigned herself into loneliness but following the path of the Dark Moon and the Age of Stars, but since we unexpectedly become her Consort, we also assume the role of complementary/shadow. That's partly why she seemed annoyed when we spoke with her when she is the little doll, and why we can start her quest as devious/antagonistic to her (following Rogier/Fia), to show opposite personalities that somehow unite ;) So in the end, we replace Blaidd (sorry best bro).
I agree with you 100% on the betrayal and seduction. People think she seduced people but I agree she was seduced by Godhood. And the possibly felt trapped within it
This would mean she split herself into 3, the golden, the queen, and Radagon. Which according to you means she is not order but chaos. I think it’s an interesting theory but has some large holes imo.
@@JoseRamos-sv6cl for sure! To be fair, there’s lots of holes in the story itself. This is just my perspective on things
Interesting perspectives. I enjoyed the video
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've been really fascinated by the mysteries of Elden Ring since coming back to it during the DLC. It didn't do much for me before but I've finally found some questions that feel really interesting.
I'm sort of stuck on what is Radagon (might have a super simple answer tbh), The Crucible (which might have a direct answer), and how did Marika become a God?
I don't agree with your conclusions but I think you've definitely hit on some points that others overlook.
There are times when the intuitive answer is the correct one even in Fromsoft titles however that limits the scope of analysis and, especially with Fromsoft titles, can be a tool for the devs to trick you.
I've also become convinced that cut content is fair game when we're looking to start broad and narrow down into more precise understandings.
With Elden Ring, I think, the themes and the 'material' of the world are wound up in each other. Not unlike the Scattotree.
I really like this video! Love this idea too, super interesting!
Glad you liked it!!
Elden Ring CC retell the same puzzle pieces every video . Elden Ring Lore : Perhaps , Maybe , It could be , Alive , dead , red , gold , butterflies and tree aliens .
If marika created duality, and that results in the overlaying great runes , that are two opposite parts of the same thing (Yin and Yang) then... what would be the opposite of death? It would be life... But... If you would get rid of, or seal away death, life would not be able to exist on its own... So... sealing the rune of death to make life an eternal thing with no opposite, might be the original sin... because it should not be possible... it is against any Order... or it would result in some kind of „life in death“combined with no duality...
I don’t know if it helps you, but I’ll say it anyway. George has a core concept in his writing, that history rhymes instead of repeats.
Ranni didnt have blaidd killed. You can find blaidd in front of rannis tower after killing the baleful shadow
What does everyone think about the fact that Godfrey is called the first of the demigods? (Source- Godricks great rune). At first I thought it was a translation error or typo because I haven’t really heard much analysis on it. I haven’t given a lot of thought to it yet since I just noticed it in the item description haha…anyways thought it was interesting and might be worth discussing. Great video as always CT!
Has anyone ever read Roadside Picnic or "The Gods Must Be Crazy"? That's what I'm going with as the origin of the Crucible. One of these outer beings (can we call them "gods"? Sure they're more powerful than us, so we'll go with gods) made a pit stop in the Lands-Between, had a picnic or maybe threw a coke bottle out and then left all it's trash without consideration of how much it disrupted the ant's world.
Sure to us, the Crucible seems like something remarkable, powerful. Even divine! We would covet it's power. Only in time does it reveal its darker side.
Your description of the Crucible harkens back to the Dark Souls universe. Where the Age of Dragons was an age of immortality, undying, stone dragons. No life, death, dark or light. It was only when the first flame was found that disparity (like gold, Order, and Death) was discovered. Even back to Demon Soul's where there was nothing but a grey fog. It seems like an idea Miyazaki has been trying to hone for a long, long time.
All I can add is that from had been retelling the same story since demons souls.
It’s a story about a foreign, cosmic outer entity that feeds on terrestrial souls like a parasite.
It’s too alien and unfathomable to be perceived by a human mind but it’s either seen as a giant tree slug like the old one….or the erdtree and the Elden beast resting within it.
In both cases, a monarch commits a cardinal sin and makes a deal with this entity…like king allant with the old one or Marika with the higher will….
Similar back stories that explain the games mechanics where everything that dies in the world surrenders its “souls” to the player….
In demons souls you are a demon and in Elden ring you are a tarnished (a fallen demigod) who also unknowingly collects souls (runes) for a parasitic alien entity.
Of course I could be wrong, but my take is that Miyazaki is just retelling the same story and refining everything about it with each iteration.
A further point on the pre - order (lol) era of the now shadow lands is the presence of death rite birds and ghostflame: here death becomes life in form of spirits, there is no conflict between life and death and they work harmoniously toghether.
On the contrary, in the golden order, death and life are separated completely, and those who live in death are exterminated because they represent this primordial wholeness, as does the crucible.
Very good video! I think you are on to something..
One thing that always stuck to me about item descriptions, is who is the narrator? Why is this info popping up now as if the tarnished remembered it rather than learning it. I feel that our tarnished is some sort of old demi God that HAS the whole picture and only recalls the information of things they pick up rather than dwelling on it cause they learned it recently
So, the 'Pot' theme is very strong in this DLC.
Can you please comment on my following thoughts:
If one takes away the 'contrivance' that is the tooth whip the whole lore falls like a house of cards. (it's so damn frustrating the longer I think of it - hear me out.)
Just imagine there would be no tooth whip item without the comically silly line of the flesh of Shamans blending harmoniously etc...
A single item that explains literally everything without any other hints or clues sprinkled in between - shouldn't be that way. My hypothesis: take the item out of the game and we have literally 0 reasoning on why Marika went onto her genocide / why the Shamans are extinct.
I agree. I think players should be rewarded with exploration, but I don't think the entire plot should hinge on it. It would be way to easy to miss something and not gain the slightest glimpse into the lore.
I think the story should be slightly more straightforward with side stories being solved through exploration but having a main theme being in a tiny hut easily missed doesn't sit right with me. I'm all for exploring every nook and cranny but it should be vital to understanding the story.
When does this actually happen in the timeline? The horn sent looked to have an order before marika ascension similar to the one you describe
I will explain my timeline further in upcoming videos!
@@CenteredTarnished I’m looking forward to it! I really enjoy your theories, especially I LOVED the one about marika in the jar. I have tons of fun speculating on this game’s lore and your videos are always a fresh, competent and well produced take on the more complicated aspects of this beautiful story, takes that can make us start sewing the pieces together and get to theories of our own. Thanks for this channel man, it’s fun and thought provoking, only you and vaati make videos this interesting. Sorry if my comment it’s not in perfect english but I’m Italian and it’s my second language, cheers!
@@gaussjordan0 much appreciated my friend!
Malenia cannot be Miquella's shadow, and she knew his plan to go to the shadow realm because of what she said to Rahdan
Malenia is specifically referred to as an Empyrean. No other shadow has been referred by this title. Ranni removed herself from the influence of the Two fingers by casting off her “Empyrean flesh” then killed her two fingers and we killed her shadow when we are confronted by mad Blaidd. Not to be confused with the Baleful Shadow we kill earlier in the quest line. “I was once an Empyrean. Of the demigods, only I, Miquella, and Malenia could claim that title. Each of us was chosen by our own Two Fingers, as a candidate to succeed Queen Marika, to become the new god of the coming age. Which is when I received Blaidd. In the form of a vassal tailored for an Empyrean. But I would not acquiesce to the Two Fingers. I stole the Rune of Death, slew mine own Empyrean flesh, casting it away.
I would not be controlled by that thing.
The Two Fingers and I have been cursing each other ever since...
And the Baleful Shadows...
are their assassins.”
miquella is the best plan, still he tore some parts of himself, like his love his flesh, etc, so probably he also made a mistake trying to correct the first sin
And now speaking of Miquella. In point of view of character progression Miquella=Griffith from Berserk, I mean Miquella bewitch a.k.a Manipulate everybody around him to do his biding. I mean Malenia tried to kill Radahn in Caelid battle, but she failed. Why? Only because Miquella did one sided vow to Radahn to be his consort. From an item description we talk the information TAHT Malenia whispered to Radahn "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort". Miquella used Mohg 's body to RESSURECT Radahn, Why? Because of one side vow Miquella made. I mean we found ST TRINNA and a rune of Miquella saying "I abandoned here my love" from that moment i toom the advice of ST TRINA of battling and defeat Miquella as the only choice available. In character progression Miquella = Griffith
One very crucial thing u missed in order to prove the theory that order started from marika is that before GODFREY, Placidusx was the elden lord and that his god left him behind forever in a slumber and there is not suggestion connecting him to marika...
@@diyanshuigneelkundu5872 what about that little girl statue in FA? Marika is the only person ever mentioned with the ER….. that little girl is Marika. Unless we want to complicate things to no end, it’s the simplest answer
@@CenteredTarnished Nah if you remember correctly then there are two more characters who have connections to that. One is miquella cuz his needle can only be used in plasidusx's altar and that is the only place with the law of time in entire farum azula and secondly when u first meet ranni u get the summoning bell along with spirit ash of three wolves. So the three wolves have a high chance of being related to Ranni as well.
@@diyanshuigneelkundu5872 that’s fine but then you are assuming that Ranni or Miquella was around back then. FA is frozen in time. That statue was built way in the ancient past. So does your head cannon timeline for your theory? Was Miquella or Ranni around with the ancient dragons?
@@CenteredTarnished might be that statue specifically was build in the later period because by the time marika ascended the throne placidusx was no more active..... and farum azula was also seperated and crumbled... I agree with your fact that while marika ascended there was both gold and shadow as without shadow the land which was previously under lands between wldnt have been cast into the shadow realm. So my only explanation is it might be later when that resting place of Maliketh or better known as Gurranq after the rune of death was taken over from the gloam eyed queen and passed onto him for protection.
Except, if Malenia was a shadowbound beast, she would have been mad after you awake her. Also she is very human whereas the other shadowbeasts are wolves
I would say that blaid tries to do everything the right way, betrayel for him is like the highest sin, probably He knows within himself, he will have to betray ranni one day, Ranni on the other hand has a righteous couse which path is dark, and treacherous.. they mirrow themself in a way
Also ranni said she was going to embrace the whole of it to
That's why Maliketh felt betrayed by Marika, cause she made him kill his other half, the gloam eyed queen, just like Miquella did with Trina.
if you take in consideration what he explained in the video about the opposite and exiting you could easily agree on many things he said
These are some very interesting points and conclusions you’ve come to. I actually just made my own theory regarding Marika’s Original Sin and ascension which has been going crazy and popping off. It’d be awesome if you saw it and we compared notes.
@@HellYeahGaming I’ll check it out!
We take Blaid’s place for Ranni in her ending.
I really, really like the idea of Malenia being Miquellas shadow. I hope it's true.
disagree, the game tells us that WOLFS are the shadow of the empireams.
I think it's explicitly stated that half beasts are the empyrean's shadows
I dont agree with the theory but malenia is a beast 😤
I don't know about this one, Shadow's are made, and I don't think a shadow, no matter how powerful, can become an empyerion, to become a god, I can see an Albinoric, being a shadow more than Malenia, I believe Malenia knew Miquella could help her after Miquella introduced unalloyed gold to her, going her entire life rittled with constant pain and agony to one day her younger, weaker brother, who she admired and loved very dearly, didn't cure her but helped her, when no one else could, of course she would put her heart and soul into Miquella, no spell or charm was needed, she knew Miquella had enough Moxie to become a god a completely cure her of her affection, Malenia being a shadow I'm sorry I just can't see it, which is why I'm still mad they didn't show either of their shadows in the DLC 😂 so much lost potential
Imo their relationship is almost certainly intended to mirror the concept of shadow bound beasts but I don't think she is one herself. It's stated pretty plainly in-game that Malenia is an empyrean just like Miquella, so it would make sense for both of them to have their own independent shadow bound beasts, but they just don't seem to be mentioned directly.