@@itshadouken Thats exactly what I did. Bought a 2018 LX570 a month an a half ago after I was let down by all these Toyota releases, and it was probably cheaper than a new 6th gen 4Runner and definitely cheaper than the new Land Cruiser. Also, I dont think the new Land Cruiser is on the same level as the 200 series. Everything about the 200 series is just beef. I have never driven anything like the 200 series.
Despite the similarities, the 4Runner is sportier and aimed at younger buyers; the LandCruiser is more heritage-oriented and aimed at older buyers. The new LandCruiser isn't marketed as cheaper, it's marketed as "back to basics," which is more important to older buyers who dream of classic LandCruisers and Defenders.
Dad is spot on and Tommy is off his rocker. The only people confused are RUclipsrs who aren't going to open their personal wallets to buy one of these. To real customers, unlike Junior, there is a clear difference between these SUV's. Put down your avocado toast and come back to the conversation when you really plan on buying a 60K plus Toyota off-roader.
I don't think younger buyers can afford either of these. When you say "younger" what do you mean? 40 year olds? Here I am extremely confused, was looking forward to the new Land Cruiser, but no 3rd row is a total dealbreaker and no interest in 4Runner's, inside is cramped and small, 3rd row is useless, plus ugly.
@czr323 I don't think the new 250 Land Cruiser has much in common at all with old style heritage FJ40 Land Cruisers that could appeal to people's nostalgia. They are both very modern looking SUVs which are the same size, same platform, same engine and within 5k starting price. I think for most people it's essentially a coin flip for people wanting a mid-size offroader with Toyota reliability.
It's actually incredibly simple. Toyota Offroad SUV = 4runner. Core price range = $45K-$55K. Premium Toyota Offroad SUV = Land Cruiser. Core price range = $55K-$65K. Luxury Toyota Offroad SUV = Lexus GX. Core price range = $65K-$75K. Big Toyota Offroad SUV = Sequoia. Core price range = $75K-$85K Yeah. There's overlap. That gives people an option between two offerings maybe even 3, so they can just go with whichever "vibe" they like the most.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d i believe it's similar to now: the Limited gets it (and probably the new fancier one) but most else is PT. this is all new so i could very well be wrong.
In Costa Rica we get the 300 series, the 4Runner, the 70 series, the Fortuner (Hilux based SUV), and the Prado. And there is no drama, you buy whatever you like.
Well, yes, you have a point. But, all the SUVs that you mentioned are diferent sizes. However these two are the same size and same engine. This can go two ways. Will see.. good day mae... lol
Toyotas doing something smart here and creating competition within their own brand(s). Instead of cross shopping 4runner with other makes’ models, you can just decide which Toyota you like more 😂
Unfortunately, I won't be shopping any Toyota. They have no family+ hauler anymore. Grand Highlander is trash, 4Runner and Land Cruiser are too small, Sequoia is also trash. Where's the LC300? I don't want a bunch of garbage luxury and tech from the Lexus or the $120k+ price tag. I'm sure both the Land Cruiser and 4Runner will do well, but none compete with Tahoe's anymore.
@@itshadouken😭😭 Go buy a tahoe if you want it to fall apart of you infront of your eyes . Chevy made decent cars 30 years ago, but that was 30 years ago eh buddy?
@@JokerG16dude come on. Stop talking about shit from 30 years ago. Sure a literal basic ass truck is going to last forever, but the new gms are trash. New Toyota over new Chevy any day and they are in the same price range (Tahoe/Sequoia). I even have a 98 Chevy 3500 DRW and it's a beast but I also have a 2015 Chevy 1500 and it needed a new transmission at 80k.
@@itshadouken An LC300 would go for $85-100K+. Similar to the LX and the last one, it won’t sell well. Customers in that category don’t value Toyota reliability and would rather lease/dump a Range Rover every few years. For the few Toyota enthusiasts in that category, at least the LX exists.
As an ex-4runner owner, out of the two I would get the Land Cruiser. It looks more mature and elegant. The new 4Runner is basically a Tacoma with a rear. It looks more "toyish" and will probably be bought by people that want the "look" while driving to their local Safeway. Permanent AWD in the LC is also key.
@@charles.alvino let’s hope you’re right but they usually don’t change much from preprod to prod. More like minor tuning tweaks, software updates, etc not the design and physical components.
I think I like the LC more, but it'll depend on pricing. LC has standard full time 4wd, standard hybrid and pretty conventional (tall & boxy) styling so I like all that it offers.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d I think it will be an option, but only for the Limited model and not the top offroad type variants such as the TRD Pro or TrailHunter.
One difference I don't think they mentioned is that they have different interiors, specifically the dashboard. I do not like the 4R dash, I think the LC/GX dash is nicer, with the screen integrated more cleanly. Cost aside, that fact alone would push me towards the LC.
Tommys face at 15:14 explains this entire conversation. If i walk into a Toyo dealership and see these two vehicles next to each other, there is no way i will mistake the Landcruiser for a "car like" vehicle. Also, just because it has full-time awd or full-time 4wd doesnt mean its a car, by that logic Rams with 4WD auto are cars now.
If anything, I’d think the 4Runner is more “car-like” as pretty much every cuv tries to look like it. The boxy silhouette, body on frame is far from a car.
I think the biggest difference is going to be the customer base. The Land cruiser types are more established older guys while the 4Runner is geared towards younger male and female maybe even small families.
That was certainly the case with the previous Land Cruiser but this one is not as upscale. It seems like more of a family vehicle whereas the 4Runner retains its youth and off-roading appeal. The Land Cruiser and 4Runner Premium are seem pretty close in terms of buyer.
One thing they did not touch on is both models are being made in Japan. They’re both going to be great vehicles, on or off road. I think the real question is how far in debt do people want to go? Midsize sporty debt or tall boxy debt?
Something not really mentioned here is the LC 250 still has to be modified to get to where the 4R Trailhunter (and the TRD Pro to some extent) already is and it comes with a full MFR warranty program. That alone has value and will be a distinguishing difference between the two models. Essentially the 4R will be more off-road/overland ready right out of the box. If you want fulltime 4WD, then the LC might be the one you start out with but you still have to modify it a fair bit to get to the 4R TH/TRD Pro so your cost spread is still there and could be significant (aftermarket accessories for the LC 250 will be more costly purely on volume opportunity alone). They both can coexist but the buyers will be more scenario specific which will drive them to one model or the other. If I were looking at an overland vehicle today, based on the release of the two models, it's an easy decision. I'd be looking at the 4R TH. There might be small overlap with the LC250 but that's before any modifications. I could essentially take the 4R TH out right away on a trip with very little to be done.
True, the 4R Trailhunter will be better equipped than the LC LC, but not better than the Lexus GX 550 Overtrail, so for just a bit more one can get a full time 4WD with e-KDSS which has the longest wheel travel of all, bigger tires, it won’t have the Old Man Emu shocks of the 4R, but original shocks on the GX Overtrail should be better than non offroad since it has higher ground clearance and 9000 lbs towing more than other trims.
I have to agree with dad, 4runner is trucky, and land cruiser is satiating my desire of having off road capabilities with some luxuries. And it feels classic
I see it as chevy Trax vs Trailblazer, both fill the same hole, same powertrain, though the Trax no longer offers AWD, but have their own style and price point. It mostly styling and the heritaged name you want to buy. I think the Land Cruiser is going to be the G wagon for Toyota suvs, the 4runner buyer aspires for, except it's within reach. Personally, I think I like the look of the 4Runner in the lower trims more, but I would choose the LC over the TRD Pro.
I thought for sure they'd do more to differentiate the 4Runner from the Land Cruiser, but it's on exactly the same 111.2 inch wheelbase TNGA-F frame. Unless there's a substantial curb weight / payload difference, a lot of suspension and armor pieces will probably bolt right on both. I think the winners of this big refresh will be lower spec levels of 4Runner -- TRD Off Road spec, enough to get all the drivetrain goodies -- and the GX. Because by the time you load up to a higher spec / price 4Runner or Land Cruiser, you might as well buy the GX.
Agree, I was hoping the 4 runner wou,d be a smaller version of the cruiser but still with part time 4wd. In my opinion they messed up big time. Won’t matter though, people have this weird love of Toyota. I might by the last version of 4 runner if see a decent deal.
@@mikeboatright5349 I was a potential Land Cruiser customer until they announced the powertrain. An Overtrail trim GX550 is within ~3% of the same price as the Land Cruiser I'd spec, for 42% more displacement and a nicer interior.
When the Gen3 first came out on the new LC 95 series chassis, same engines running gear etc I always wanted the 4Runner as of the two it had the sexy body rather than the overweight one although the LC made more sense with a 3rd row.
I've had three 4Runners and am on my second Land Cruiser ('17) and Tommy is right. I thought I would get a new LC, once the dust had settled, but I could very easily go back to a 4Runner. The overall 4Runner packages just look more focused and polished, at this early stage. It looks like both will be very similar in their functions and utility. I'll be very interested in the specs, range, cargo, space, etc.
The LC does not seem at all like a Car, don't understand how you get that but I have not seen them in person so will have to see for myself when I get up close to them.
I'm from Africa..and we have a Landcruiser Prado and a 4runner equivalent( the Fortuner, based on the Hilux)..the biggest difference is refinement..u take the Landcruiser when u want to cross a desert for days..u take the 4runner off-roading or rock climbing
@@JokerG16 the US gets it's own specific powertrain but it's largely the same LC250 that is sold in other world markets. Are you thinking of the 70 series?
I don't see any major complication regarding the positioning of the 4RUNNER and LC (Prado) in your market there in the US. Toyota has been doing this kind of strategy here in Asia. For instance, Toyota is offering here the Fortuner /SW4, then the LC Prado and the 300 Series (the biggest LC). The Toyota Fortuner /SW4 is based on the Toyota Hilux (UTE). I definitely I agree that your LC will be positioned above the 4RUNNER like what Toyota does here in Asia. LC Prado is more expensive than the Toyota Fortuner..
I feel the 4Runner appeals to the customers who need something as tough as a tacoma, but seats family comfortably whereas the land cruiser appeals to those who are in love with retro/heritage SUV's. So if people love the look of Jeeps, Land Rovers, G Wagons etc., Toyota has an SUV that can compete with none of the reliability downsides.
4Runner: for off-road flat-land crossing/fire roads. For going around the mountain. Fast. Lando Prado - higher ceiling, more space; built for slower crawling over obstacles. For going OVER the mountain. Given the cost of the Full Lando, what Toyota did here actually makes sense: take the basic drivetrain/(chassis?) and sell versions that appeal to each market. This saves them money, saves customers money. The only problem for me is that there will still be gussied up LXs being sold to people who are only going to drive them in paved roads. They can call it a Lexus, but it should only come with steel wheels , grey body cladding and a vinyl interior that can be completely removed in 20 minutes.
Me too. I've been driving my 2004 4Runner Sport for 20 years, and I can't imagine a better vehicle for Colorado. In fact, the turbo four-cylinder should be even better than the 4.7-liter V8 because turbos don't lose 40% of their horsepower at altitude like normally aspirated engines do. It also won't hurt to have an 8-speed transmission instead of the old 5-speed, and the iForce Max hybrid should bump up the fuel efficiency a bit. But the best part for me will be a HUGE improvement in technology (adaptive cruise, lane tracing, 360 camera, blind spot warning, cross traffic alert, MP3 and satellite radio, customizable digital gauges, heated and ventilated seats and steering wheel, etc.) Compared to my 2004 it will be like flying a spaceship.
Theres no issue with Toyotas line up. For years in Australia there has been the following off road SUV line up (Full chassis and transfer case) Land cruiser 300 series Landcruiser Prado `150 series 5dr + 3dr Landcruiser 76 series 5dr Landcruiser 78 series troop carrier Fortuner Has always worked ok in a much smaller market.
Re: 7 seats. My understanding is that the battery pack for the hybrid occupies the space for the 3rd row. The LC being all hybrid removes the space for that extra row of seats
Another Toyota focused channel said that the interior materials are better in the Land Cruiser by a noticeable margin than the 4Runner. Better plastics, fit and finish, etc. I would go with the LC!
The 4Runner looks more rugged and off road maybe for a younger buyer and the Land Cruiser looks more civilized that an older customer may want. Even though both are excellent off roaders, the Land Cruiser looks a bit more like a family hauler that you can take off road if you want to take the whole family camping. You're over thinking this, Tommy. Toyota is appealing to two different customers with two different vehicles that are similarly priced.
In my country they used to sell the 4Runner, Fortuner and Prado at the same time. They all share the same engine and transmission and they’re all where about the same size. They all sold very well surprisingly enough.
Tommy is spot on, sorry Roman. Regardless, Toyota has three trucks competing in the same space, not differentiating enough in such a narrow price range.
Payload might me a BIG difference. In one of TFLs videos the 4Runner (preproduction) had just shy of 900lbs while the Land Cruiser is closer to 1,200lbs. That is HUGE. It would be so easy to overload the 4Runner. Example 6,000lbs trailer with a 15% tongue weight would be 900lbs Any person or thing you had to the 4Runner means you are overloaded 😅
I wonder if there's going to be certain trims w/ have higher higher payload because I know there were some trims in the 5th gens with payload lower than 900.
This is the key difference…if there really is a difference when comparing similarly configured trims. Disappointing that you didn’t mention it!!! (Did I miss it??). If they are both ~1000 pounds, what’s the point of either of them? Or enlighten me as to whether this isn’t relevant.
@@jterranova Tommy and his Dad did not cover this is the video. They only briefly touched on towing numbers (which are the same at 6,000lbs). This is why I gave the towing example and most people overlook payload and GCWR when towing. They think if it is under their tow limit they are good to go.
The new Land Cruiser is 1700-1800 lbs depending on spec. These numbers seem to have just been published. If that truly is 2x the 4Runner why ever buy a 4 Runner!?
The only confusion will be in the US market. LC Prado, like mentioned, has been sold worldwide and people know what it is. Toyota deciding to market the Prado as the Land Cruiser in the US will steer the previous LC buyers away, they are getting short changed. In the US the LC was a luxury big SUV with offroad cred. In the ROW LC was the ultimate offroad/overlanding vehicle. By the way I side more with Tommy than with Dad, and I am closer to dad's age.
I agree. Europe is also only getting the 250 LC and Toyota was already bringing the Lexus version to the states anyway. No reason not to throw the LC version in the mix as they were already making them, I don't think Toyota cares what one people buy in the states. The sales of Land Cruiser 200s was extremely low in the states so no surprise they stopped selling the full size ones.
How has Toyota differentiated the 4Runner and the Prado in international markets that has been selling them previously? Do most markets have the smaller LC and the 4Runner? You're trying to tell me that there are significant technical differences that aren't overcome by mere trim packages? They overlap in size and tech specs A LOT! So, the GX or the 4Runner. Why the Prado?
LC design is more appealing to me and it appears more refined. But without the 3rd row option, it is no go for me. Lexus GS 550 does have the option and is more luxurious but I want the iconic LC. So basically I want the LC with the GX550 luxurious feel and 3rd row option.
I do agree with the person who says it’s a toyo master stroke Want aggressive and rugged off-roading. Look at this Toyota Want classic and solid. Look at that Toyota The competition can go kick rocks!!!
One thing nobody is talking about is the dimensions of the two are actually different. The the Land Cruiser is taller and the 4Runner is longer. The 5in difference in height is actually substantial enough where the Land Cruiser won't fit in my garage because it's too tall but the 4runner will.
@@is6566 On Toyota's website, the specs show the LC is 76.1" tall. I saw it in person at the NY auto show and it's definitely a tall vehicle. I have an older raised ranch where the garage is in the basement which has 7' ceilings. It would fit through the garage door, but the opener's arm dips down to 75". Funny enough, on paper, the bigger 200 Series land cruiser will fit, but the "smaller" 250 LC is too tall. My 2008 4Runner fits inside no problem. Even opening the rear hatch, the rear lift gate fully opens.
Nice. Maybe in a few years. Meanwhile, I picked up an off-lease, old-school V8 Nissan Armada. Much more towing capacity than these two, more cargo capacity, and more luxury. And it was really excellent with some AT tires on our recent trip towing the trailer out to Moab and the southwest. We have no lift and didn't do any of the extreme rock crawling, but for the lower level off-road trails, it was more than enough.
One big difference is that the land cruiser will still be a low volume vehicle because they are both made in the same factory but the land cruiser is a global vehicle where as the 4runner is only sold in north America.
@@carlosibanezf As of 2021, the 4Runner is marketed in the Bahamas, Bolivia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Peru, the United States and Venezuela. Many markets that did not receive the 4Runner, such as Europe and the Middle East, instead received the similarly designed Land Cruiser Prado, another SUV that shared many of the same components.
tommy keeps talking about seeing more 4runners going off-roading then Land Cruisers. He is not taking in to account that Land cruisers are more rare. 4runner probably outsold the LC by 50 to 1. Ill keep my 2005 LC. Cant kill the thing.
I am a Land Cruiser guy, and given a J250 vs a 4Runner TRDOR, I'll take which ever of the two is less expensive out the door. That will likely be a 4Runner, though the GX550 Overland+ is only $1600 more than the J250 First Edition and has 100 more HP. We'll see how they fare once they hit the market and saturate for a few years....
The previous LC200 was very confusing to many Toyota customers because of the Sequoia. Both were big V8. The LX570 sold a lot more than did the LC200. This new LC250 is going to confuse customers as well because of the 4Runner. Then, if you start thinking of buying an LC250, the new GX550 seems like a lot more vehicle for not much more money. Will we see the GX550 far outselling the LC250?
Lexus overtrail will be 5-10% more than the LC fully loaded and should only appeal to people who want to tow more weight. Fuel economy is 20% worse in the GX
The answer is Wrangler and Bronco. Toyota should have went outside the box with the 4runner and made the top/doors removable. That or bring back the FJ Cruiser.
Great debate. Agree the whole thing is confusing. But buyers will figure it out I guess. I miss the days of simply adding options to a single badge vehicle. The trim level thing is out of control. lol
Dude on the right is trapped inside the head of a car geek, isn’t thinking the least bit about market dynamics and filling customer needs. I get that they’re role playing. Toyota has (probably correctly) figured that the market for 4Runners and for Land Cruisers don’t overlap enough to offset the enormous economic advantage of building two vehicles on one platform.
I've been disappointed so far in these vehicles as they appear to be all the same with just different styling now. Before they used to be more unique and different. The new 4Runner is literally a Tacoma with a back attached. Being on the same platform makes them feel and appear to be all the same vehicle now. With all the engineering resources saved by doing that, you would think it would cost less and that would be passed onto customer, but instead everything has jumped thousands per trim.
I'm a fan of the Land Cruiser look! I daily drive a 1st Gen Montero, so I'm partial to that style. I'm a little bummed we don't have the option to have the third row at the expense of the hybrid. I don't need a third row most of the time, but I would like the option. That last point does make the 4Runner tempting.
I hope you understand the thing Tommy is actually arguing is that they should not have bothered selling the Land Cruiser here. A convertible Jeep clone was never in the universe of possibility, that's just pie in the sky stuff.
Agreed; this 250 version is hard to see the point of. I get the heritage and the aim of older gen buyers but why not bring the full fledged 300 series if the 4Runner was coming over anyway?
@@ccabz08 Because Toyota likes to bring out models in stupid spaces and the say, oh, well, we couldnt sell it so we are just gunna kill it off. Like why wasnt the 200 series ever sold in an SR or SR5 trim that normal humans might be able to afford. Its a unique platform in that its smaller than the typical full sized SUV's but offers full size SUV capabilities. Instead it was only available as a fully pimped out truck that was out of the reach of most buyers and didnt offer anything that a BMW or Mercedes of similar price didnt and so they sold 3000 a year.
The higher end Land Cruisers have never sold well in the US. They built Lexus up to service that market and it does well. The previous Land Cruiser went away because it was so overshadowed by the Lexus offerings.
@ Toyota I live in Hawaii where every other car is a Tacoma or 4 runner . If you need someone to showcase the new lineup here I’d be happy to drive around the island All the time for free and market your product 😅. Shout out to TFL for all the Great content .
There’s something magical about watching Tommy being logically confounded while wearing an outfit that looks like an animal oriented onesie. 😂. Nothing but love. 😂
I was on a list, but was expecting a manual like the Bronco. Very shocked Toyota did not offer a manual since it developed it for the new Tacoma, same exact engine/drivetrain. Prefer old-school, and was willing to take EPS steering and a turbo 4pot, but at least there would be a manual. To not offer it --- Makes no sense!!
This comment is for the presenters of this video. I have watched the TFL channels since about 2016, I live in NYC and have purchased and sold a 2017 gen 2 GMC Canyon purchased a 2023 gen 3 GMC Canyon based partly on information from TFL content--thank you! I generally like the content and watch a lot of the videos that come out from all of the TFL channels presently. What I witnessed in this video was a bit disturbing. The younger presenter simply didn't want to listen to what the other presenter had to say at all, instead quite aggressively going on to his next point while being dismissive to the point that the other presenter was making. I realize the presenters are related and that's part of the appeal of them appearing together, but in the context of what I am used to from TFL, this was a very unprofessional presentation--I hope you guys would at least review this and have a quick think about this. TFL goes to great lengths to claim that "we're automotive journalists bringing you useful information and not youtubers". To a great degree, in my opinion, TFL has succeeded in doing this to their credit--TFL is a very influential brand at this point. And, to be fair, opinions and disagreements and, sure some ranting are all part of the content alongside really good, factual information. I would just hasten to add that listening is probably the greatest asset any journalist possesses and hope you would take this criticism in stride. You are very privileged to do what you do, made possible by your viewers and with that comes responsibility. I hope this is taken in the right light and can contribute to TFL continuing to produce great content for some time. Thanks!! Douglas
I feel that’s it’s not odd that the Land Cruiser is not the more off road worthy one. It’s never really been the more off road one since the 90’s. Since then the 4Runner has been the more off road focused one. Land Cruiser had always been the overland king and not the rock crawler. Also the Land Cruiser looks inside and out more sleek and understated as it was before the 300 series. It’s the one you take on road trips and to the beach and it’s probably better on road with the full time 4x4. I think they may have knocked it out of the park with this one.
The 200 series Land Cruiser, other than maybe some lower hanging bumpers, is a more capable platform than the 5th gen 4Runner is. 35's fit with minimal effort, the IFS is WAY stouter(notice how 4runner/GX owners who actually wheel hard upgrade to Tundra/Land Cruiser steering racks), the axles are stouter, etc. An LC's stock wheel travel is 1" more than a 4Runner with extended travel aftermarket coilovers. Problem was people couldnt afford them, but now that you can get a used 200 series for cheaper prices we are starting to see the platform pushed.
@@Jay-me7gw I could see that for sure, but it’s bigger. The 4Runner is the perfect size. I mean I guess it’s use case and location. Either way better than the Land Cruiser used to be
@@jodensmith5093 You do know that all of these new Toyota SUV's are now the same wheelbase and track width as a 200 series? They are the same size. There is no "Prado" anymore because even the prado is a 112.2" wheelbase now. And the track width on the GX550 and Tacoma are >66.5" while my 2018 LX is 64.8. So when you run out and buy your new 4Runner it will be just as wide and just as long as a 200 series, but will still have the interior space of a 4Runner and be built like a 4Runner.
Weirdly I’m agreeing with Tommy. Not enough difference in capability here and the Gx is more exciting that either. 10:26 - a lot of excitement! I had the opportunity to be at two different new car dealerships over the last two weeks. One was a Ford and the other was Toyota. The Ford showroom was empty. I was one of two customer cars parked at the facility. The salesmen were nice and engaging, and help me, but there was no one there. The other was a Toyota dealership where I went in for parts… The place was buzzing with lots of activity and two concierge attending people walking in and out the doors. Shocking difference.
If you have the money and prefer the styling then sure but otherwise you are just paying more for a glorified 4runner. it doesn't really make sense to me since both trucks costs more than $40k. IMO id save the money and buy the 4runner but if i had the money id still skip the land-cruiser and just buy the GX which is better in every aspect. Toyota really pulled an Apple on us with their tight and expensive lineup like the iPhone lineup. Too many options all too close in the same price range.
I figured the 4Runner would go smaller and more basic. Manual everything, maybe even a removable roof and solid front axle to battle the Wrangler. As it stands, there's no real reason to buy the LandCruiser unless you need the headroom. It should've gone 4Runner - Land Cruiser - Sequoia from small and basic to big and luxurious.
Funny thing is that toyota has done the same thing in other markets with the prado and the fortuner, and guess what? They still selll and they both are very desired. Just hope that toyota does well with the 4runner and prado here in america.
It's interesting to hear Landcruiser in regards to a Prado. It certainly is a Landcruiser Prado but down here in Australia, nobody calls it a Landcruiser, just simply Prado. Landcruiser is never used in talking about a Prado always refers to a 2oo or 300 series or older series as in 80 or 100.
For years 4runner (5g) and LC prado (known as 150 series) have coexisted in many countries. Other than looks, both have been very similar. Both have been perceived as very capable off road vehicles. However, the LC prado has been more family oriented than the 4runner. This maybe related to less aggressive looks or extra space for the third row.
Toyota has played this extremely well. The Land Cruiser will sell much better than the last version, based on the price drop alone. The Lexus GX is clearly a stud that will approach 50k sales in 2025, up from 35k or so last year And they nailed the 4Runner redesign, so that goes from 140k a year to close to 200k in 2025
Honestly, Land Cruiser looks better. The Trail Hunter trim is the only 4Runner that looks good except for the front Taco styling. If prices are the same, I’d go for a unique look.
In Japan, these models were in parallel in the 90s and early 2000s, and both found buyers. It's like opening two stores on the same street, no matter which one is more popular, people will still buy from you. In my opinion, Toyota sees buyers of these models a little different, at least for the 4Runner it will be younger.
It’s like Zoolanders expressions. They’re exactly the same. The “distinction” between the two is marketing only, and it’s a brilliant way to widen the 4Runner market.
LOVED this video and the different perspectives are right in point !! Will be interesting to see. Wrangler 4XE & Model Y owner, with certainty either the new 4Runner or the LandCruiser will be the next car at home in a few years.
What would be really useful to know - and it’s surprising nobody is calling it out- is how the most off-road capable new LC compares to the most off/road capable new 4R (TH or TRD Pro). Ground clearance, departure, break-over & approach angles. Any info @tfl???
I 100% understand what your dad was saying about 1 feels alot like cary & other feels like a trucky. You should make a tee which says feels more like trucky & feels more like cary with 4 runner & landcruiser images
Great discussion, I agree that there is overlap but they are very different looking vehicles. We drive a Lexus GX which is the same base as the previous Prado. We bought it because of better towing then the 4 runner. Now the Land Cruiser may not have that advantage but I am very interested in how it drives. I think itw I l bdcdiffrrent than the runner. Looking forward to tomorrow's video.
I saw a bit of family frustration there boys. I love it. Honesty is why most are here and loyal. I really thought the opinions would be opposite considering the looks of the two Yotas. I’m with pops on this one. When I think TLC, I think of bigger, badder, more wheel articulation. I’d love to see a new 3 door and 5 door FJ.
There’s a reason why in most markets where there is the 4runner, the LC 250/Prado is not offered (only in Lexus GX form) and vice versa. Now that we don’t get LC300, we have almost two identical vehicles. If I am an off roader or frequent camper, I would choose the 4Runner. If I am an occasional camper, I would go LC. Which is why I think the 4runner limited it’s kinda of pointless. They should have kept the new 4runner strictly off roader.
Toyota is very successful and I’m going to start with the assumption that they are very smart. Toyota sells a lot of 4Runners (I owned a 3rd gen) and sold very very few of the previous gen Land Cruiser (I own one). Toyota understands that by providing more options within a big growing segment means more sales. 4Runners appeal to a certain crowd and Land Cruisers to a different one, even if they are essentially the same vehicle underneath.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
It's smart of them. Here we are debating two Toyota products, not other companies.
Nah it's not smart. They brought back the LC that's smaller and in a similar price point. They're just gonna get rid of it again
It can also cannibalize sales. Wouldn't it have been smarter to just offer the 300 series Land Cruiser which has a distinct size difference?
@@PlayWaves1 what cannibalize what sales? 4Runner is the big seller in the US. If the LC is more expensive, Toyota is happy if people switch.
Not really because I would have bought a LC300, now I'll end up buying a used LC200 or a Tahoe. Huge mistake, also because the Sequoia is trash.
@@itshadouken Thats exactly what I did. Bought a 2018 LX570 a month an a half ago after I was let down by all these Toyota releases, and it was probably cheaper than a new 6th gen 4Runner and definitely cheaper than the new Land Cruiser.
Also, I dont think the new Land Cruiser is on the same level as the 200 series. Everything about the 200 series is just beef. I have never driven anything like the 200 series.
Despite the similarities, the 4Runner is sportier and aimed at younger buyers; the LandCruiser is more heritage-oriented and aimed at older buyers. The new LandCruiser isn't marketed as cheaper, it's marketed as "back to basics," which is more important to older buyers who dream of classic LandCruisers and Defenders.
Dad is spot on and Tommy is off his rocker. The only people confused are RUclipsrs who aren't going to open their personal wallets to buy one of these. To real customers, unlike Junior, there is a clear difference between these SUV's. Put down your avocado toast and come back to the conversation when you really plan on buying a 60K plus Toyota off-roader.
Younger buyers can't afford a 50k suv 😂
I don't think younger buyers can afford either of these. When you say "younger" what do you mean? 40 year olds? Here I am extremely confused, was looking forward to the new Land Cruiser, but no 3rd row is a total dealbreaker and no interest in 4Runner's, inside is cramped and small, 3rd row is useless, plus ugly.
@czr323 I don't think the new 250 Land Cruiser has much in common at all with old style heritage FJ40 Land Cruisers that could appeal to people's nostalgia. They are both very modern looking SUVs which are the same size, same platform, same engine and within 5k starting price. I think for most people it's essentially a coin flip for people wanting a mid-size offroader with Toyota reliability.
@@billzkustomz They can with 84 month loans!
It's actually incredibly simple.
Toyota Offroad SUV = 4runner. Core price range = $45K-$55K.
Premium Toyota Offroad SUV = Land Cruiser. Core price range = $55K-$65K.
Luxury Toyota Offroad SUV = Lexus GX. Core price range = $65K-$75K.
Big Toyota Offroad SUV = Sequoia. Core price range = $75K-$85K
Yeah. There's overlap. That gives people an option between two offerings maybe even 3, so they can just go with whichever "vibe" they like the most.
+ LX for the big spender
another simple consideration:
do you want FT 4WD?
if yes, and you want to go offroad, get the LC.
if yes, and you want to go to the mall, get the 4R.
@@stevez4286 Will the new 2025 4 runner have a full time 4wd option? I don't see that yet.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d Yes, but only the Limited and Platinum trims
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d i believe it's similar to now: the Limited gets it (and probably the new fancier one) but most else is PT. this is all new so i could very well be wrong.
In Costa Rica we get the 300 series, the 4Runner, the 70 series, the Fortuner (Hilux based SUV), and the Prado. And there is no drama, you buy whatever you like.
Pura Vida! I love the Hilux.
Well, yes, you have a point. But, all the SUVs that you mentioned are diferent sizes. However these two are the same size and same engine. This can go two ways. Will see.. good day mae... lol
👏🏼👏🏼💯💯 Pura Vida!
At 4 times the regular price
@@marmaljrmmm3421 4runner, Fortuner and the Prado all are the same size
Toyotas doing something smart here and creating competition within their own brand(s). Instead of cross shopping 4runner with other makes’ models, you can just decide which Toyota you like more 😂
Unfortunately, I won't be shopping any Toyota. They have no family+ hauler anymore. Grand Highlander is trash, 4Runner and Land Cruiser are too small, Sequoia is also trash. Where's the LC300? I don't want a bunch of garbage luxury and tech from the Lexus or the $120k+ price tag. I'm sure both the Land Cruiser and 4Runner will do well, but none compete with Tahoe's anymore.
@@itshadouken😭😭 Go buy a tahoe if you want it to fall apart of you infront of your eyes . Chevy made decent cars 30 years ago, but that was 30 years ago eh buddy?
@@joeydubois nah Chevy's truck line up are solid. There's still 25+ yr old Tahoes running around.
@@JokerG16dude come on. Stop talking about shit from 30 years ago. Sure a literal basic ass truck is going to last forever, but the new gms are trash. New Toyota over new Chevy any day and they are in the same price range (Tahoe/Sequoia). I even have a 98 Chevy 3500 DRW and it's a beast but I also have a 2015 Chevy 1500 and it needed a new transmission at 80k.
@@itshadouken An LC300 would go for $85-100K+. Similar to the LX and the last one, it won’t sell well. Customers in that category don’t value Toyota reliability and would rather lease/dump a Range Rover every few years. For the few Toyota enthusiasts in that category, at least the LX exists.
As an ex-4runner owner, out of the two I would get the Land Cruiser. It looks more mature and elegant. The new 4Runner is basically a Tacoma with a rear. It looks more "toyish" and will probably be bought by people that want the "look" while driving to their local Safeway. Permanent AWD in the LC is also key.
Agreed completely
Toyota knows what they’re doing, they’re going to sell a ton of both. I like them both.
But do they though? I wouldnt mind sitting down with a pencil and a piece of paper and challenging you on that
It looks good
I like them both as well. Both are different enough.
@@TheAnnoyingBoss then you'd lose
@@BeakNC okay then why do they have 8 injectors on 4 cylinders. Does that seem efficient simple and affordable to you?
This is a clinic in Tommy telling his dad he's crazy, without telling his dad he's crazy. 😂
Yaa Roman makes no sense at all😂
@@gm-zz8so definitely. I think he's saying the more truck like looking model is more Car liked. They're the same. Except for looks and price
dad seems irritated the whole time. why show up if you're so annoyed ?
@@joshharrison1160 because he's trying to say something completely insane and Tommy won't let him get away with it
A
Piano black fender flares is the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time, gets scratched to hell without even touching it.
Pre-production only
probably get more scratches as a mall crawler too!
@@charles.alvino let’s hope you’re right but they usually don’t change much from preprod to prod. More like minor tuning tweaks, software updates, etc not the design and physical components.
@@charles.alvino Hope you are right. Those things just KILL the look, and I don't mean that in a good way.
Same with the TRD PRO Taco.
I think I like the LC more, but it'll depend on pricing. LC has standard full time 4wd, standard hybrid and pretty conventional (tall & boxy) styling so I like all that it offers.
I sure hope the new 4 runner will have a full time 4wd option, otherwise I might go for the LC.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d I think it will be an option, but only for the Limited model and not the top offroad type variants such as the TRD Pro or TrailHunter.
@@user-mh5qg5jb7d Its an option with the limited or the platinum trim.
FYI 4Runner limited has always had full time 4 wheel drive…
One difference I don't think they mentioned is that they have different interiors, specifically the dashboard. I do not like the 4R dash, I think the LC/GX dash is nicer, with the screen integrated more cleanly. Cost aside, that fact alone would push me towards the LC.
Tommys face at 15:14 explains this entire conversation. If i walk into a Toyo dealership and see these two vehicles next to each other, there is no way i will mistake the Landcruiser for a "car like" vehicle. Also, just because it has full-time awd or full-time 4wd doesnt mean its a car, by that logic Rams with 4WD auto are cars now.
@@user-xr8eq5hn5bThat’s how I took it as well.
If anything, I’d think the 4Runner is more “car-like” as pretty much every cuv tries to look like it. The boxy silhouette, body on frame is far from a car.
I think the biggest difference is going to be the customer base. The Land cruiser types are more established older guys while the 4Runner is geared towards younger male and female maybe even small families.
That was certainly the case with the previous Land Cruiser but this one is not as upscale. It seems like more of a family vehicle whereas the 4Runner retains its youth and off-roading appeal. The Land Cruiser and 4Runner Premium are seem pretty close in terms of buyer.
One thing they did not touch on is both models are being made in Japan. They’re both going to be great vehicles, on or off road. I think the real question is how far in debt do people want to go? Midsize sporty debt or tall boxy debt?
I had the FJ. The Landcruiser is just an updated FJ; works great off-road and is ideal for roadtrips.
The FJ is based, and very similar to the 3-door short wheel base Prado. Lots of the 3-door Prados here in Panama
Something not really mentioned here is the LC 250 still has to be modified to get to where the 4R Trailhunter (and the TRD Pro to some extent) already is and it comes with a full MFR warranty program. That alone has value and will be a distinguishing difference between the two models. Essentially the 4R will be more off-road/overland ready right out of the box. If you want fulltime 4WD, then the LC might be the one you start out with but you still have to modify it a fair bit to get to the 4R TH/TRD Pro so your cost spread is still there and could be significant (aftermarket accessories for the LC 250 will be more costly purely on volume opportunity alone). They both can coexist but the buyers will be more scenario specific which will drive them to one model or the other. If I were looking at an overland vehicle today, based on the release of the two models, it's an easy decision. I'd be looking at the 4R TH. There might be small overlap with the LC250 but that's before any modifications. I could essentially take the 4R TH out right away on a trip with very little to be done.
True, the 4R Trailhunter will be better equipped than the LC LC, but not better than the Lexus GX 550 Overtrail, so for just a bit more one can get a full time 4WD with e-KDSS which has the longest wheel travel of all, bigger tires, it won’t have the Old Man Emu shocks of the 4R, but original shocks on the GX Overtrail should be better than non offroad since it has higher ground clearance and 9000 lbs towing more than other trims.
@OldelCpt don't believe the 550 has better clearance than 4R.
That's the purpose of the 1958 edition. Customize it for overlanding as you wish.
I have to agree with dad, 4runner is trucky, and land cruiser is satiating my desire of having off road capabilities with some luxuries. And it feels classic
I see it as chevy Trax vs Trailblazer, both fill the same hole, same powertrain, though the Trax no longer offers AWD, but have their own style and price point. It mostly styling and the heritaged name you want to buy. I think the Land Cruiser is going to be the G wagon for Toyota suvs, the 4runner buyer aspires for, except it's within reach. Personally, I think I like the look of the 4Runner in the lower trims more, but I would choose the LC over the TRD Pro.
I thought for sure they'd do more to differentiate the 4Runner from the Land Cruiser, but it's on exactly the same 111.2 inch wheelbase TNGA-F frame. Unless there's a substantial curb weight / payload difference, a lot of suspension and armor pieces will probably bolt right on both.
I think the winners of this big refresh will be lower spec levels of 4Runner -- TRD Off Road spec, enough to get all the drivetrain goodies -- and the GX. Because by the time you load up to a higher spec / price 4Runner or Land Cruiser, you might as well buy the GX.
Yes. They are going to sell 10x as many SR5 and TRD Off Roads as the entire Land Cruiser lineup.
Spot on. I'll be looking at the SR5 or Off Road 4R trim myself.
By the time I get an LC/LC with the upgraded package I should just buy the GX and call it a day.
Agree, I was hoping the 4 runner wou,d be a smaller version of the cruiser but still with part time 4wd. In my opinion they messed up big time. Won’t matter though, people have this weird love of Toyota. I might by the last version of 4 runner if see a decent deal.
@@mikeboatright5349 I was a potential Land Cruiser customer until they announced the powertrain. An Overtrail trim GX550 is within ~3% of the same price as the Land Cruiser I'd spec, for 42% more displacement and a nicer interior.
When the Gen3 first came out on the new LC 95 series chassis, same engines running gear etc I always wanted the 4Runner as of the two it had the sexy body rather than the overweight one although the LC made more sense with a 3rd row.
I've had three 4Runners and am on my second Land Cruiser ('17) and Tommy is right. I thought I would get a new LC, once the dust had settled, but I could very easily go back to a 4Runner. The overall 4Runner packages just look more focused and polished, at this early stage. It looks like both will be very similar in their functions and utility. I'll be very interested in the specs, range, cargo, space, etc.
The LC does not seem at all like a Car, don't understand how you get that but I have not seen them in person so will have to see for myself when I get up close to them.
I'm from Africa..and we have a Landcruiser Prado and a 4runner equivalent( the Fortuner, based on the Hilux)..the biggest difference is refinement..u take the Landcruiser when u want to cross a desert for days..u take the 4runner off-roading or rock climbing
y'all have the REAL Prado. this one is fake and a US-specific model
@@JokerG16 the US gets it's own specific powertrain but it's largely the same LC250 that is sold in other world markets. Are you thinking of the 70 series?
@@JokerG16 LC250 is same worldwide except for powertrain.
@@ALMX5DP you’re right, i stand corrected
the Fortuner does not have multi-link independent rear suspension but the new 4runner does
I don't see any major complication regarding the positioning of the 4RUNNER and LC (Prado) in your market there in the US. Toyota has been doing this kind of strategy here in Asia. For instance, Toyota is offering here the Fortuner /SW4, then the LC Prado and the 300 Series (the biggest LC). The Toyota Fortuner /SW4 is based on the Toyota Hilux (UTE). I definitely I agree that your LC will be positioned above the 4RUNNER like what Toyota does here in Asia. LC Prado is more expensive than the Toyota Fortuner..
Agree
I feel the 4Runner appeals to the customers who need something as tough as a tacoma, but seats family comfortably whereas the land cruiser appeals to those who are in love with retro/heritage SUV's. So if people love the look of Jeeps, Land Rovers, G Wagons etc., Toyota has an SUV that can compete with none of the reliability downsides.
I agree 100 percent!
Ifs will never compete with solid axle. If off-roading is your only concern, the only choice is Jeep.
Reliability of these new models are not yet proven
They just won't be as good off road as jeeps or broncos
@@chaseshort7433 Reviewers I have watched consider jeeps better than 4Runners off road, but not as good on road.
I think it’s going to be similar to Land Rover with the RR, RR Sport and LR 4/Discovery
I was salivating over the Land Cruiser until the 4Runner came out 😍
X2. Love the TRD Pro & Trail Hunter 4Runner's
Yeah- I'm really not sure why anybody would buy the Land Cruiser now.
@@blurglidefull time 4WD usable offroad, which is not the case for the 4Runner, but is for LC and GX.
@@OldelCpt I have a GX460, and I wish I could put it in 2wd to improve the mpg.
4Runner: for off-road flat-land crossing/fire roads. For going around the mountain. Fast.
Lando Prado - higher ceiling, more space; built for slower crawling over obstacles. For going OVER the mountain.
Given the cost of the Full Lando, what Toyota did here actually makes sense: take the basic drivetrain/(chassis?) and sell versions that appeal to each market. This saves them money, saves customers money.
The only problem for me is that there will still be gussied up LXs being sold to people who are only going to drive them in paved roads. They can call it a Lexus, but it should only come with steel wheels , grey body cladding and a vinyl interior that can be completely removed in 20 minutes.
4runner for me!
Me too. I've been driving my 2004 4Runner Sport for 20 years, and I can't imagine a better vehicle for Colorado. In fact, the turbo four-cylinder should be even better than the 4.7-liter V8 because turbos don't lose 40% of their horsepower at altitude like normally aspirated engines do. It also won't hurt to have an 8-speed transmission instead of the old 5-speed, and the iForce Max hybrid should bump up the fuel efficiency a bit. But the best part for me will be a HUGE improvement in technology (adaptive cruise, lane tracing, 360 camera, blind spot warning, cross traffic alert, MP3 and satellite radio, customizable digital gauges, heated and ventilated seats and steering wheel, etc.) Compared to my 2004 it will be like flying a spaceship.
4Runner looks like a Tacoma from the front. Looks like an an RC toy a little kid plays with and takes off dirt ramps in their backyard.
@cheintz091 5th gen looks way better, I find the 6th gen has no personality due to looking too much like the Tacoma.
Theres no issue with Toyotas line up. For years in Australia there has been the following off road SUV line up (Full chassis and transfer case)
Land cruiser 300 series
Landcruiser Prado `150 series 5dr + 3dr
Landcruiser 76 series 5dr
Landcruiser 78 series troop carrier
Fortuner
Has always worked ok in a much smaller market.
Re: 7 seats. My understanding is that the battery pack for the hybrid occupies the space for the 3rd row. The LC being all hybrid removes the space for that extra row of seats
Good insight, thanks!
The Euro version has a 3rd row and a panoramic roof
Another Toyota focused channel said that the interior materials are better in the Land Cruiser by a noticeable margin than the 4Runner. Better plastics, fit and finish, etc. I would go with the LC!
The 4Runner looks more rugged and off road maybe for a younger buyer and the Land Cruiser looks more civilized that an older customer may want. Even though both are excellent off roaders, the Land Cruiser looks a bit more like a family hauler that you can take off road if you want to take the whole family camping. You're over thinking this, Tommy. Toyota is appealing to two different customers with two different vehicles that are similarly priced.
In my country they used to sell the 4Runner, Fortuner and Prado at the same time. They all share the same engine and transmission and they’re all where about the same size. They all sold very well surprisingly enough.
Tommy is spot on, sorry Roman. Regardless, Toyota has three trucks competing in the same space, not differentiating enough in such a narrow price range.
Or you could just look at them as a collection of trim levels with a price range from $40-80k.
That really should have given one of them the V6h like in the tundra/Sequoia
I always thought the Land Cruiser was more capable. It was the 4x4 beast where the 4Runner was the little brother that was more into the mall.
I love seeing the debate between dad and son! Keep it up!
Payload might me a BIG difference. In one of TFLs videos the 4Runner (preproduction) had just shy of 900lbs while the Land Cruiser is closer to 1,200lbs. That is HUGE. It would be so easy to overload the 4Runner. Example 6,000lbs trailer with a 15% tongue weight would be 900lbs Any person or thing you had to the 4Runner means you are overloaded 😅
I wonder if there's going to be certain trims w/ have higher higher payload because I know there were some trims in the 5th gens with payload lower than 900.
This is the key difference…if there really is a difference when comparing similarly configured trims. Disappointing that you didn’t mention it!!! (Did I miss it??). If they are both ~1000 pounds, what’s the point of either of them? Or enlighten me as to whether this isn’t relevant.
@@jterranova Tommy and his Dad did not cover this is the video. They only briefly touched on towing numbers (which are the same at 6,000lbs). This is why I gave the towing example and most people overlook payload and GCWR when towing. They think if it is under their tow limit they are good to go.
The new Land Cruiser is 1700-1800 lbs depending on spec. These numbers seem to have just been published. If that truly is 2x the 4Runner why ever buy a 4 Runner!?
It's hard to take Tommy seriously when he constantly reacts emotionally rather than responding like an equal adult to his father's comments.
landcruiser - for moms to pick up their kids from school.
4runner - for divorced dads that try to pick up kids at school.
Divorced dad's to try to pick up divorced mom's at the kids' school 😂
gross
Damn. That’s the best explanation I’ve ever heard.
The new 4runner is gorgeous
The only confusion will be in the US market. LC Prado, like mentioned, has been sold worldwide and people know what it is. Toyota deciding to market the Prado as the Land Cruiser in the US will steer the previous LC buyers away, they are getting short changed. In the US the LC was a luxury big SUV with offroad cred. In the ROW LC was the ultimate offroad/overlanding vehicle. By the way I side more with Tommy than with Dad, and I am closer to dad's age.
I agree. Europe is also only getting the 250 LC and Toyota was already bringing the Lexus version to the states anyway. No reason not to throw the LC version in the mix as they were already making them, I don't think Toyota cares what one people buy in the states. The sales of Land Cruiser 200s was extremely low in the states so no surprise they stopped selling the full size ones.
How has Toyota differentiated the 4Runner and the Prado in international markets that has been selling them previously? Do most markets have the smaller LC and the 4Runner? You're trying to tell me that there are significant technical differences that aren't overcome by mere trim packages? They overlap in size and tech specs A LOT! So, the GX or the 4Runner. Why the Prado?
LC design is more appealing to me and it appears more refined. But without the 3rd row option, it is no go for me. Lexus GS 550 does have the option and is more luxurious but I want the iconic LC. So basically I want the LC with the GX550 luxurious feel and 3rd row option.
Agreed, the 3rd row is important. Will go with a GX
This is exactly what I was thinking. Building the LC with no 3rd row did not make sense. It is disappointing and I hope they change that.
Third row would be unusable by anyone outside a small child. Is it worth putting in a third row just for families with 3+ kids?
I do agree with the person who says it’s a toyo master stroke
Want aggressive and rugged off-roading. Look at this Toyota
Want classic and solid. Look at that Toyota
The competition can go kick rocks!!!
One thing nobody is talking about is the dimensions of the two are actually different. The the Land Cruiser is taller and the 4Runner is longer. The 5in difference in height is actually substantial enough where the Land Cruiser won't fit in my garage because it's too tall but the 4runner will.
The Landcruiser doesn’t fit in your garage because it’s too tall? How small is your garage? The LC is 73 inches tall.
@@is6566 On Toyota's website, the specs show the LC is 76.1" tall. I saw it in person at the NY auto show and it's definitely a tall vehicle.
I have an older raised ranch where the garage is in the basement which has 7' ceilings. It would fit through the garage door, but the opener's arm dips down to 75". Funny enough, on paper, the bigger 200 Series land cruiser will fit, but the "smaller" 250 LC is too tall. My 2008 4Runner fits inside no problem. Even opening the rear hatch, the rear lift gate fully opens.
Love the father and son not getting along. And the banter!
Nice. Maybe in a few years. Meanwhile, I picked up an off-lease, old-school V8 Nissan Armada. Much more towing capacity than these two, more cargo capacity, and more luxury. And it was really excellent with some AT tires on our recent trip towing the trailer out to Moab and the southwest. We have no lift and didn't do any of the extreme rock crawling, but for the lower level off-road trails, it was more than enough.
Land Cruiser!!! Amazing !
Simple. You like a classic look? Land Cruiser. You like ugly cars, and/or cosplaying as a Gundam character? 4Runner.
LMAO
4Runner Elevated Gundam Art Form vs Amazon box shaped and colored Land Cruiser.
LMAO
Apparently the 4Runner looks better in person but I'm doubtful
I think in America coz of the Sequoia & 4runner,the 250 Land cruiser & 300 don't make alot of sense😂😅
The 4Runner Trail Hunter looks really cool and has the better interior. It will be $65+ though. 😮
One big difference is that the land cruiser will still be a low volume vehicle because they are both made in the same factory but the land cruiser is a global vehicle where as the 4runner is only sold in north America.
the low volume will be due to 100% because of dealer markups.
The 4Runner is sold all over the world
@@carlosibanezf As of 2021, the 4Runner is marketed in the Bahamas, Bolivia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Peru, the United States and Venezuela. Many markets that did not receive the 4Runner, such as Europe and the Middle East, instead received the similarly designed Land Cruiser Prado, another SUV that shared many of the same components.
This is not the same Land Cruiser as is sold around the world.
With a straight-up choice, who wouldn't choose a Land over a 4R?!!
tommy keeps talking about seeing more 4runners going off-roading then Land Cruisers. He is not taking in to account that Land cruisers are more rare. 4runner probably outsold the LC by 50 to 1. Ill keep my 2005 LC. Cant kill the thing.
I am a Land Cruiser guy, and given a J250 vs a 4Runner TRDOR, I'll take which ever of the two is less expensive out the door. That will likely be a 4Runner, though the GX550 Overland+ is only $1600 more than the J250 First Edition and has 100 more HP. We'll see how they fare once they hit the market and saturate for a few years....
It's only a 23hp/24 lb-ft difference. And the LC is like 600 lbs lighter.
And LC gets 20% better fuel economy if you care about that
@@cheintz091
Lexus is a Lexus
The Landcruiser looks better than the new 4Runner
The previous LC200 was very confusing to many Toyota customers because of the Sequoia. Both were big V8. The LX570 sold a lot more than did the LC200. This new LC250 is going to confuse customers as well because of the 4Runner. Then, if you start thinking of buying an LC250, the new GX550 seems like a lot more vehicle for not much more money. Will we see the GX550 far outselling the LC250?
Lexus overtrail will be 5-10% more than the LC fully loaded and should only appeal to people who want to tow more weight. Fuel economy is 20% worse in the GX
@@cheintz091 The GX will also appeal to people who want a V6, a nicer interior, a better stereo, a better dealership experience, and the Lexus badge.
The answer is Wrangler and Bronco. Toyota should have went outside the box with the 4runner and made the top/doors removable. That or bring back the FJ Cruiser.
There is small off-roader FJ coming. It may have all that.
They definitely do not look alike.
Great debate. Agree the whole thing is confusing. But buyers will figure it out I guess.
I miss the days of simply adding options to a single badge vehicle. The trim level thing is out of control. lol
Dude on the right is trapped inside the head of a car geek, isn’t thinking the least bit about market dynamics and filling customer needs. I get that they’re role playing.
Toyota has (probably correctly) figured that the market for 4Runners and for Land Cruisers don’t overlap enough to offset the enormous economic advantage of building two vehicles on one platform.
Nothing beats a Torsen center differential. Owning and working on Audi 20+ years ago taught me how bulletproof and traction finding those systems are.
I've been disappointed so far in these vehicles as they appear to be all the same with just different styling now. Before they used to be more unique and different. The new 4Runner is literally a Tacoma with a back attached. Being on the same platform makes them feel and appear to be all the same vehicle now. With all the engineering resources saved by doing that, you would think it would cost less and that would be passed onto customer, but instead everything has jumped thousands per trim.
I'm a fan of the Land Cruiser look! I daily drive a 1st Gen Montero, so I'm partial to that style. I'm a little bummed we don't have the option to have the third row at the expense of the hybrid. I don't need a third row most of the time, but I would like the option. That last point does make the 4Runner tempting.
I hope you understand the thing Tommy is actually arguing is that they should not have bothered selling the Land Cruiser here. A convertible Jeep clone was never in the universe of possibility, that's just pie in the sky stuff.
Agreed; this 250 version is hard to see the point of. I get the heritage and the aim of older gen buyers but why not bring the full fledged 300 series if the 4Runner was coming over anyway?
@@ccabz08 Because Toyota likes to bring out models in stupid spaces and the say, oh, well, we couldnt sell it so we are just gunna kill it off.
Like why wasnt the 200 series ever sold in an SR or SR5 trim that normal humans might be able to afford. Its a unique platform in that its smaller than the typical full sized SUV's but offers full size SUV capabilities. Instead it was only available as a fully pimped out truck that was out of the reach of most buyers and didnt offer anything that a BMW or Mercedes of similar price didnt and so they sold 3000 a year.
A Jeep clone u must be joking
Jeep clone ? Moronic take. 1st gen 4Runner had removable top.
The higher end Land Cruisers have never sold well in the US. They built Lexus up to service that market and it does well. The previous Land Cruiser went away because it was so overshadowed by the Lexus offerings.
Between the two, I'd go LC for the full time 4WD.
I think the dad here was spot on with his perspective. I understood where he was getting at.
@ Toyota I live in Hawaii where every other car is a Tacoma or 4 runner . If you need someone to showcase the new lineup here I’d be happy to drive around the island All the time for free and market your product 😅. Shout out to TFL for all the Great content .
The Land Cruiser is the gentleman’s 4-Runner.
Tommy's growth has been outstanding! great job TFL team
We agree!
There’s something magical about watching Tommy being logically confounded while wearing an outfit that looks like an animal oriented onesie. 😂. Nothing but love. 😂
I was on a list, but was expecting a manual like the Bronco. Very shocked Toyota did not offer a manual since it developed it for the new Tacoma, same exact engine/drivetrain. Prefer old-school, and was willing to take EPS steering and a turbo 4pot, but at least there would be a manual. To not offer it --- Makes no sense!!
You were shocked they didn't do a thing they've never done and no reasonable person thought they were gonna do? Lol
@@mechmat12345 Toyota is so boring
This comment is for the presenters of this video. I have watched the TFL channels since about 2016, I live in NYC and have purchased and sold a 2017 gen 2 GMC Canyon purchased a 2023 gen 3 GMC Canyon based partly on information from TFL content--thank you! I generally like the content and watch a lot of the videos that come out from all of the TFL channels presently.
What I witnessed in this video was a bit disturbing. The younger presenter simply didn't want to listen to what the other presenter had to say at all, instead quite aggressively going on to his next point while being dismissive to the point that the other presenter was making.
I realize the presenters are related and that's part of the appeal of them appearing together, but in the context of what I am used to from TFL, this was a very unprofessional presentation--I hope you guys would at least review this and have a quick think about this.
TFL goes to great lengths to claim that "we're automotive journalists bringing you useful information and not youtubers". To a great degree, in my opinion, TFL has succeeded in doing this to their credit--TFL is a very influential brand at this point. And, to be fair, opinions and disagreements and, sure some ranting are all part of the content alongside really good, factual information. I would just hasten to add that listening is probably the greatest asset any journalist possesses and hope you would take this criticism in stride. You are very privileged to do what you do, made possible by your viewers and with that comes responsibility. I hope this is taken in the right light and can contribute to TFL continuing to produce great content for some time. Thanks!!
Douglas
I feel that’s it’s not odd that the Land Cruiser is not the more off road worthy one. It’s never really been the more off road one since the 90’s. Since then the 4Runner has been the more off road focused one. Land Cruiser had always been the overland king and not the rock crawler. Also the Land Cruiser looks inside and out more sleek and understated as it was before the 300 series. It’s the one you take on road trips and to the beach and it’s probably better on road with the full time 4x4. I think they may have knocked it out of the park with this one.
The 200 series Land Cruiser, other than maybe some lower hanging bumpers, is a more capable platform than the 5th gen 4Runner is. 35's fit with minimal effort, the IFS is WAY stouter(notice how 4runner/GX owners who actually wheel hard upgrade to Tundra/Land Cruiser steering racks), the axles are stouter, etc. An LC's stock wheel travel is 1" more than a 4Runner with extended travel aftermarket coilovers.
Problem was people couldnt afford them, but now that you can get a used 200 series for cheaper prices we are starting to see the platform pushed.
@@Jay-me7gw
I could see that for sure, but it’s bigger. The 4Runner is the perfect size. I mean I guess it’s use case and location. Either way better than the Land Cruiser used to be
@@jodensmith5093 You do know that all of these new Toyota SUV's are now the same wheelbase and track width as a 200 series? They are the same size. There is no "Prado" anymore because even the prado is a 112.2" wheelbase now. And the track width on the GX550 and Tacoma are >66.5" while my 2018 LX is 64.8.
So when you run out and buy your new 4Runner it will be just as wide and just as long as a 200 series, but will still have the interior space of a 4Runner and be built like a 4Runner.
Weirdly I’m agreeing with Tommy. Not enough difference in capability here and the Gx is more exciting that either. 10:26 - a lot of excitement!
I had the opportunity to be at two different new car dealerships over the last two weeks. One was a Ford and the other was Toyota. The Ford showroom was empty. I was one of two customer cars parked at the facility. The salesmen were nice and engaging, and help me, but there was no one there. The other was a Toyota dealership where I went in for parts… The place was buzzing with lots of activity and two concierge attending people walking in and out the doors. Shocking difference.
I agree with Tommy. Roman’s points are weak.
Design is the only thing I care for and I will pick Land Cruiser every time.
Land Cruiser all day, more square and beautiful
If you have the money and prefer the styling then sure but otherwise you are just paying more for a glorified 4runner. it doesn't really make sense to me since both trucks costs more than $40k. IMO id save the money and buy the 4runner but if i had the money id still skip the land-cruiser and just buy the GX which is better in every aspect. Toyota really pulled an Apple on us with their tight and expensive lineup like the iPhone lineup. Too many options all too close in the same price range.
I figured the 4Runner would go smaller and more basic. Manual everything, maybe even a removable roof and solid front axle to battle the Wrangler. As it stands, there's no real reason to buy the LandCruiser unless you need the headroom. It should've gone 4Runner - Land Cruiser - Sequoia from small and basic to big and luxurious.
Funny thing is that toyota has done the same thing in other markets with the prado and the fortuner, and guess what? They still selll and they both are very desired. Just hope that toyota does well with the 4runner and prado here in america.
It's interesting to hear Landcruiser in regards to a Prado.
It certainly is a Landcruiser Prado but down here in Australia, nobody calls it a Landcruiser, just simply Prado. Landcruiser is never used in talking about a Prado always refers to a 2oo or 300 series or older series as in 80 or 100.
LC upright windshield will be a rock chip magnet, ala the FJ
spot on with the dealer markup and prices, guys. Love you all. great content all the time.
I think Toyota is pulling a Venza/RAV4 twin model again. Eventually one will drop off but in the meantime either one you pick Toyota wins.
For years 4runner (5g) and LC prado (known as 150 series) have coexisted in many countries. Other than looks, both have been very similar. Both have been perceived as very capable off road vehicles. However, the LC prado has been more family oriented than the 4runner. This maybe related to less aggressive looks or extra space for the third row.
Toyota has played this extremely well.
The Land Cruiser will sell much better than the last version, based on the price drop alone.
The Lexus GX is clearly a stud that will approach 50k sales in 2025, up from 35k or so last year
And they nailed the 4Runner redesign, so that goes from 140k a year to close to 200k in 2025
Honestly, Land Cruiser looks better. The Trail Hunter trim is the only 4Runner that looks good except for the front Taco styling. If prices are the same, I’d go for a unique look.
In Japan, these models were in parallel in the 90s and early 2000s, and both found buyers. It's like opening two stores on the same street, no matter which one is more popular, people will still buy from you. In my opinion, Toyota sees buyers of these models a little different, at least for the 4Runner it will be younger.
It’s like Zoolanders expressions. They’re exactly the same. The “distinction” between the two is marketing only, and it’s a brilliant way to widen the 4Runner market.
LOVED this video and the different perspectives are right in point !! Will be interesting to see. Wrangler 4XE & Model Y owner, with certainty either the new 4Runner or the LandCruiser will be the next car at home in a few years.
What would be really useful to know - and it’s surprising nobody is calling it out- is how the most off-road capable new LC compares to the most off/road capable new 4R (TH or TRD Pro). Ground clearance, departure, break-over & approach angles. Any info @tfl???
Mmmm I like how new 4Runner looks , didn’t like old one , too aggressive but man Land Cruiser, love that classic look ❤
@5:10 - 💯 agree with pops. Based on the $$ and the rugged style, ill take the 4Runner please.
How does the seating position differ? The thing I hated about the old tacoma was how uncomfortable the seating potions was.
I 100% understand what your dad was saying about 1 feels alot like cary & other feels like a trucky.
You should make a tee which says feels more like trucky & feels more like cary with 4 runner & landcruiser images
Great discussion, I agree that there is overlap but they are very different looking vehicles. We drive a Lexus GX which is the same base as the previous Prado. We bought it because of better towing then the 4 runner. Now the Land Cruiser may not have that advantage but I am very interested in how it drives. I think itw I l bdcdiffrrent than the runner. Looking forward to tomorrow's video.
it suits my economy
I saw a bit of family frustration there boys. I love it. Honesty is why most are here and loyal. I really thought the opinions would be opposite considering the looks of the two Yotas. I’m with pops on this one. When I think TLC, I think of bigger, badder, more wheel articulation. I’d love to see a new 3 door and 5 door FJ.
There’s a reason why in most markets where there is the 4runner, the LC 250/Prado is not offered (only in Lexus GX form) and vice versa. Now that we don’t get LC300, we have almost two identical vehicles. If I am an off roader or frequent camper, I would choose the 4Runner. If I am an occasional camper, I would go LC. Which is why I think the 4runner limited it’s kinda of pointless. They should have kept the new 4runner strictly off roader.
I prefer Land Cruiser 250 ❤
Toyota is very successful and I’m going to start with the assumption that they are very smart. Toyota sells a lot of 4Runners (I owned a 3rd gen) and sold very very few of the previous gen Land Cruiser (I own one). Toyota understands that by providing more options within a big growing segment means more sales. 4Runners appeal to a certain crowd and Land Cruisers to a different one, even if they are essentially the same vehicle underneath.