Lackawanna Cut-Off- Part 25: The Other Lackawanna Cut-Off - w/Josh Stull
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2020
- A trip from Scranton, PA to Binghamton, NY, highlighting the Clarks Summit-Hallstead Cut-Off (the "Other" Lackawanna Cut-Off) in-between. Chuck will start at Scranton, PA, and will make a stop at Chinchilla, PA before starting the Cut-Off trek at Clarks Summit. We will follow the old railroad right-of-way (now US Route 11) that the Cut-Off replaced to Nicholson, where we will see the world-famous Tunkhannock Creek Viaduct. Here, we will meet up with Josh Stull, a local historian who grew up in Nicholson, and who will be our tour guide at the 1849 station in Josh's hometown. (For more details on the station, and its preservation, please see www.nicholsonheritage.org/?fb...) After Nicholson, we will visit Foster (which is really called Hop Bottom). We'll visit the Martin's Creek Viaduct, the smaller sister of the Nicholson Viaduct. After that, we'll Alford station and tower. (Alford station was still standing when we recorded this video; it was recently torn down, unfortunately.) Then, we move on to the "west" end of the Cut-Off at Hallstead, where Chuck raises a question that requires an answer...and off we go to New Milford, PA to get that answer (and a tour of the part of the Cut-Off that is no more!). (We'll also try to locate the site of the fatal wreck east of Hallstead that occurred on October 19, 1927.) Finally, we rejoin Josh at the 1901 station in Binghamton, NY where see the Marconi Tower and where Chuck talks about Amtrak service, the cut-off that was never built, and the connection between the Lackawanna Railroad and the New York Yankees (and you'll literally get to see a home run hit).
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I really enjoy Chuck’s videos. He talks with the authority of a college professor. I am always impressed how he does his commentary extemporaneously.
Ah, but there is preparation, sometimes A LOT of preparation, involved beforehand. Many years ago, I did a presentation when I belonged to Toastmasters, and did it verbatim off a script. It was a disaster. Ever since, I've tried to have my "speeches" in my head--not memorized--but so familiar with them that I don't typically need notes unless I'm going through a long list of things. I did that for the Saving of the Cut-Off video (a list of 50 names), but otherwise I don't use notes on screen.
Chuck, seeing the notification about this video just made my weekend!
I always look forward to his latest videos.
As I've posted before, Mr. Walsh, being someone who knows virtually nothing about the DL&W I find your videos quite informative: thank you for putting this one on the road's Pennsylvania Cut-off together. Plus, I WAS waiting all these months to find out why Videographer Larissa was up on top of that mound. And, yes, please go explore those two tunnels on the Old Main! (Might be best to do so in the Fall after the vegetation has defoliated.) Thanks again.
Or the winter when the chance of snakes is lower in those tunnels....
@@JohnLosito, I've heard about the rattlers around there.
@@LackawannaCutOff LOVE YOUR VIDEOS CHUCK. YOUR QUIRKYNESS ADDS A DIFFERENT DIMENSION AND HUMOR TO EACH VIDEO TOO LOL. I GREW UP IN THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF SOME OF THE GOOD OLE DAYS IN THE 80'S AND 90'S I LIVE FAR AWAY FROM THERE NOW BUT I LOVE WATCHING THESE VIDEOS KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND STAY SAFE DURING ALL THIS CORONA VIRUS CRAZINESS.
@@LackawannaCutOff we have projects that we would hire Larissa Walsh for filming , editing etc. We can only pay $3400 a month but all travel handled. She seems reliable and able to provide consistent quality work that we need. What is her business email so our staff can contact her? Ty
@@rent-amuse5405, please contact me at njrca@embarqmail.com and I'll forward you Larissa's contact email.
Chuck Thanks for you time and effort on these EL train history videos. You give a plan explanation on why things were done back then. I am not too particular on exact points (ie: corrections), pls do not let that hinder your history video series . Importing thing it that its being told/documented.
Thank you!
Thank you again Chuck and Larissa! I love learning about this.
Thank you Chuck for another great chapter in the EL story. My only regret is that I wish I had known all of this information when I I was living in North Jersey during the second half of 1974. when a lot of what you have talked about was active. I was a saleman at the time and traveled all over New Jersey. I look forward to seeing the next chapter whenever it appears
Unfortunately all the passenger trains were gone by 1970.
Thanks Chuck, (and Josh!). Knew nothing about this, but it was your ususal - inforrmative, and delivered with good humor. Now to break out some maps!
The piers/footings of Martin's Creek are split in two rather than being one solid piece across which the other three DL&W viaducts are. This was done at Martin's Creek because of difficulties achieving a stable footing. I noted the differences the first time I saw all four viaducts on the same day in June, 1985.
Martin's Creek also had three tracks, instead of two.
Hi and thank you! This video answered so many questions for me. I live in Summersville. The part of the video where you look at the pile of rubble where the old overpass crossed Old Lackawanna Trail is right at the bottom of my driveway. I've grown up looking over the valley where i can see the Cutoff, Old Lack. Trail (Old Rt. 11), the Original Tracks, New Rt.11 (The 3 Lanes) and Interstate 81, all from my window. I've always assumed the rails closest to my house were the oldest, because the other ones are on more level ground with fewer over and underpasses. Now I know that it was all about the grade. I remember well when they removed the tracks and fill from the Cutoff. I remember when they blasted the 3 overpasses in Summersville too. When you showed the electric poles near my driveway did you notice how tall they are? The power lines went high enough to clear the overpass and trains. The other 2 overpasses on Franklin Hill Rd. and School Rd. the electric lines were run down and through the overpass. Next to my driveway there is a foundation of a building that had to be for the train, but I have never talked to anyone that remembers the building. I've also seen pictures of a train that tipped over at the Summersville station. But I've never heard about the accident on the Cutoff near my house. I bet I can show you the bank it went down though. There is a strange looking passage under the bed for the creek to go through there. It's odd shape always catches my eye. It seems too small for the size of the creek. I bet this is where it happened. Also in Summersville, there is still an overpass they didn't remove over the creek. It helps to imagine how the rail bed passed through. There is roughly 3 or 400 feet of the old bed in front off my house too. If you're ever in the neighborhood again let me know and I'll take you to it and you can see the view from the past. Sorry to ramble on, I'm just excited to learn the
history from my little Village.
We may be in the area next month. Have not decided yet if we'll visit the accident scene, or go as far as Summersville, in this episode.
Very informative video and I was born here. Good stuff.
There are still some remnants of the Delaware Valley Railroad to Bushkill that left Lackawanna's main in E. Stroudsburg. You can see a little bit of the right of way when north on Rt. 209.
Thanks again for an informative presentation. I have traveled route 6 from Scranton to Towanda off and on since 1955 and recall seeing more instances of the DL&W old line in the past between Clarks Summit and the route 6/11 split. I always wondered what was up that road but never found out until now. Never new Route 11 was mostly the old RR alignment. Thanks again to you and Larissa.
I worked in the Hallstead station building in 2010. It was a Business named "Snake Creek Laser". Before that the building was remodeled into a restaurant.
Enjoyed your video as always Chuck. Thank you guys for making the effort to make these.
I still don't quite understand why/how they ended up with 4 tracks on the end near Binghamton ??
Two of the four tracks ended up handling freight trains (mostly coal) in and out of Hallstead Yard west of New Milford. This is similar to what the Lackawanna did on the hills either side of the Poconos, and on the Boonton Line in NJ. When East Binghamton yard is built in the late-1920s, Hallstead Yard is closed. The line was primarily two tracks (I believe) west of Hallstead to Binghamton (about 20 miles or so).
Ok thanks Chuck. I remember this, as I once rode a track car (speeder) from E. Stroudsburg to Scranton and back - back when the line was out of service in the 1980's. I remember at the time thinking what an impressive piece of railroad it was.
Thanks for this video! I’ve been fascinated by this line ever since a late 80’s excursion from my home in NC to attempt to catch some of the few remaining Alco locomotives running in the Binghamton area. Traveling from Binghamton to Scranton, I “discovered” this line totally by accident, and I can honestly say that of the hundreds of railfanning trips I’ve taken, this is the only one in which the infrastructure was of much more interest than the trains theirselves! We found a hillside cemetery in Nicholson on what I believe is the south side of the viaduct, that provided an excellent side view of the bridge from probably a half mile or so away. Finding the interlocking towers and the station at Alford (?) and so on were very neat experiences also! I’d love to have more info on the building of the various viaducts on both cutoffs! Another fascination of mine is the countless stiff leg derricks that were used to build nearly everything at that point in history. I’ve not been able to uncover much about them, but in the majority of the construction photos, you’ll see at least a couple vertical poles with an angled pole attached to it, and the accompanying vertical boiler/winch that powered each one. Thanks again!
Great presentation and very informative!
As usual, very informative and interesting. Thanks!
I grew up in my early years in Clark's Summit. The old alignment terminated up by Gerrity's. At that time there was an Agway there and they dropped off a refrigerated reefer of produce from Florida there. We had fresh Oranges in December. Whipple's lumber also received a carload or two of lumber from the EL. UT was mainly serviced by gp-7s and rs switchers. I was lucky enough to ride one if the last Pheobe Snow trains in 1966 from Scranton to Binghamton. I was 4 years old.
Nothing new to report since #13.
Hello Chuck and Larissa, the whole series has so many extraordinary moments. My heart is waiting for chapter 26 as well as the updates in the near future. Are you planning to cover the section west of Binghamton NY?
I've thought about it. Maybe in 2021. It depends on a few things.
Great narration and visuals to match. What a shame that Alford station was torn down.
Thank you for another great video. In the early 80s my wife and I made the same trip you featured here from Scranton to Binghamton and photographed all the stations and towers along the way, all of which were still standing at that time. Nicholson was in bad shape even then, but Alford was decent. There are two towers at Alford. I don't know what the second one was for, but maybe something to do with the tracks having been relocated as you mentioned in the video. Unfortunately, there's hardly any pictures of the Montrose Branch.
Regarding the Montrose Branch, I hope to rectify that in a future video.
@@LackawannaCutOff I'd love to see any information on that. I'd also like to know what the extra tower in Alford was for. The Mountainhome Branch is another obscure one with a few remnants still there, if you know where to look. I remember that one and the Cresco freight station.
@@1940limited, well, the tower at Alford controlled the connection to the Montrose Branch. The Mountain Home Branch is interesting because it's relatively obscure and very few photos were ever taken of it (I've never seen one myself).
@@LackawannaCutOff The Barrett Historical Society housed in the Cresco station has a diagram of the branch when it was intact about 100 years ago. I remember when it was operating with boxcars spotted at the lumber yard in Cresco, but never actually saw trains moving on the line. Conrail took it out some time in the 80s but it hadn't been used probably since the 60s. At one time there was a coal trestle on the branch that served Sequinne's General Store, which burned in 1954. The concrete stanchions for that trestle are still there. In my lifetime it only went as far as Mick Motors in Cresco. Originally it extended to Mountainhome with a grade crossing in front of where the diner is now. Another spur ran behind the present location of the diner. Very few remnants of the branch are left. You have to know where to look for them. I don't know of any photographs.
@@1940limited, wow, I didn't know there was a spur off of it. There's a stream that crosses (Mill Creek?) PA 191. I know the branch paralleled the highway, and the ROW is still visible nearer the station on the right hand side going towards Mountainhome. Did the branch go as far as that stream? The diner is before that. That's about a mile from the station. Have never been inside Cresco station. I'd love to see that diagram!
The Mountainhome Branch was originally the Oak Valley Railroad built in 1856 to serve the tannery in Mountainhome and connecting with the Lackawanna at Cresco. It was purchased by the Lackawanna in 1895 and eventually became the Mountainhome Branch. I'm working on access to the track plan.
Found similar sentiment on old p&h main street n.j.! guessing I didn't know variable in by-pass. My ancestors are from monroe county.
1:40:00 When I was a kid, Mantle & Berra, the Binghamton Triplets were a Yankee farm team, Brooklyn Dodgers in Elmira. I was checking Conrail sales in Binghamton and checking google earth for a current view and found a baseball stadium on the site of the former yard of the DL&W? , I assume the former Erie Yard is still in use. Binghamton was home to a Mets farm team. That has changed again as seemingly sports team names and stadium names change yearly.
It's OK to be interrupted when it's by ALCO power, especially when it includes an RS-3.
Out behind Gerrity's Ace Hardware is a cross-under for the track coming from Keyser Avenue.
At 39:36 the old tunnels are visible from the road when the leaves are off the trees.
That is a big bridge
39:00 It almost sounds as though you are on rails as you cross the asphalt cracks above the old concrete slabs.
Scranton, that's what she said, Pennsylvania.
40:00 Dude, you drove right past the Factoryville tunnels and didn't take a photo?? They're easily visible from the turn-off to the high school.
Muy buenos sus videos pero demasiado largos.
Vestal is west of the Bingo Station. The track blends into the Erie just west of the station it is not a stub.
The Lackawanna itself was cut back to Vestal and became the Vestal Spur. That's what I'm referring to.
Factoryville with Keystone College on the left is where Christy Mathewson grew up. www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mathech01.shtml
12:24:04 Approximately 564.96 feet apart.
Chuck and Josh, Some of your information about the stretch around Hop Bottom, Foster, Alford and the Montrose branch is invalid.
I guess you don't care.
Jeff, didn't see it until now. I would be very interested to learn what was "invalid" about the video.
@@LackawannaCutOff Chuck, this is from the perspective of a 77-year-old who has lived in NEW Milford (note the "NEW". Milford, which you used several times, is in Pike County on the Delaware River and nowhere near the D.L.& W. We from "NEW Milford are offended when you omit "NEW" when referring to our town.), have always been interested in trains and local history. So, a few corrections and clarifications.
The hill where the tunnels are is called "Tunnel Hill". (Duh) I've never heard it called Tunkhannock Mountain, and there is no reference to Tunkhannock Mountain in Pennsylvania.
The place where the spur for Nicholson and Hop Bottom is called Glenwood Switch. I've been up there, but it almost impossible to get to today.
An aside: if you look just to the left of the column in your piece about the Kingsley Bridge (alright, the Marten's Creek Viaduct) you can see the repairs that CP made. They did the same thing to Nicholson - just a flat slab of concrete, totally destroying the shadow line that were built in to the bridge originally.
Next: Alford. First, Steamtown never went to Alford. I rode it all three years they ran the excursions north, and it always stopped at Kingsley. People got off, took pictures, one of the ladies groups from Kingsley had refreshments available, while the locomotive ran around and coupled up to the other end for the trip back to Scranton. Second, the Montrose branch was abandoned on April 24, 1943, not 1939/1940 as you state. This from T. Thomas Taber's series of books "The Delaware, Lackawanna, & Western Railroad".
The Hallstead station was never used as senior housing. It was an upscale restaurant, then added on to and used as an electronics manufacturing facility. The senior housing is build across the tracks to the south of the station. Also, the Hallstead yard was not across the tracks from the station, it was south (east). This can be seen by the large expanse of flat level ground.
When talking about the wreck, you mentioned Salt Lick Creek (crick in this stiff-neck-of-the-woods) being "down there". Salt Lick Creek is actually across the old tracks and the Rt. 11 highway, right under the fill that is Interstate 81.
The re-opening of the Lackawanna line between Scranton and Hoboken has been bandied about to ease the congestion on Interstate 80. So many people have moved to Pennsylvania and commute to NYC that 80 has become a traffic quagmire. A few years back one of the New York State legislators talked about using the Erie main line, but that idea was quickly shouted down as a waste of money because "there are more rattlesnakes than people between Binghamton and Port Jervis". The most recent talks about passenger service for Binghamton are about using RDC-type service between Binghamton and Scranton to connect with the regular passenger service there.
And finally - you've got stones for standing in front of the Binghamton station and bragging up the Yankees. Binghamton is METS town! The Binghamton AA team was started as the Mets, is still affiliated with the METS, and the D.L.& W. freight house at the corner of Henry and Fayette streets was torn down the build the stadium that the Binghamton METS call home. Yankees. Sheesh!
So that's the information I can offer. I never saw this piece before, nor did I know that you had done a complete series on the cutoffs. Now I'm going back and find the rest of them.
Regards,
Jeff
@@jefflewis6331, I just went back and listened to a two-minute snippet of the video and I heard myself say NEW Milford about a half-dozen times. So, if I omitted the "New" (or you didn't hear it) I think it's clear that I at least at that point got it right. As for the rest of your information, thank you very much. By the way, my reference to Binghamton being a "Yankee town" predates the existence of the Mets.
@@jefflewis6331 Hi Jeff, thank you for your information and clarifications, especially about the Hallstead station. I hope it doesn't fall into disrepair, since when we were there in late 2019, it looked closed for good. Right, Glenwood Switch is the reference to the spur line, but I wonder was that our local name for it and also the railroad's? The reference to Tunkhannock Mountain was from the second Annual Report of DL&W, dated Jan. 1855, where, on page 9, it's reported that "The great tunnel through the Tunkhannock Mountain was completed in April last..." Yep, us locals call it Tunnel Hill, but I also found it referenced in a Nicholson history book as Roberts Hill. Through my research, I also found that the DL&W referred to the station in Nicholson as Tunkhannock in the early days of the railroad. Of course, now I can't find the document where I saw that: maybe an early TT. Either way, I'm looking and will post more when I find it.
Express is packages mail goes in baggage cars.
3:03 There is nothing in-between. Seriously.