Whilst I agree with other commenters that a crank seal issue could be the problem, Id wager that the issue is weak spark particularly at low RPM, Honda designed these engines with the bare minimum flywheel and magnet 40 plus years ago, to save as much weight as possible in a race application, over the years and the many heat cycles those magnets have weakened IMHO resulting in no idle / poor start , the solution would be to either get an engineering company to remove and replace the existing magnets in the flywheel (preferably with modern neodymium magnets) or find a good after-market one.
They should just replace the stock flywheel with the HPI system. I'd like to get one for my 76 IT400 but I need to work on it first before eyeing any fancy bits.
It's was a bitch to start in 85 from new, just put it in 2-3 gear, and pull it with something, there is nothing wrong with it, it's a really big piston, and Honda didn't make it easy to start, ever. But it's so fun to ride👍, most fun dirt bike I ever tried😉.
It may have compression, spark and fuel, but there's one thing you guys haven't checked. On a two stroke, you need to check for leaks in the crankcase. It's how you find bad crank seals, cracked carburetor boots and blown cylinder base gaskets. Those will all create air leaks that make the bike run super poorly and be hard to start.
As much as they have ran this bike, if it had any type of leak like that, it would cause a lean condition and melt down. The Piston. Crank seals are a possibility but they still are not having lean condition because the bike still runs
You changed the stater but you DID NOT change the MAGNETIC BELL, Remember when the magnets failed in the 670 dragster? That is why you have weak spark. ?
@@grizzly-bear-1k24miles2 Nope, the stator just charges up the CDI unit, and then the trigger coil drops the field and fires the ignition coil. I'm not sure if these have auto-spark-advance like the ATV's or not.
Need to check your crank seals on the engine. If those are bad they will allow more air in and your tune will be way off and also causes a very hard to start issue.
We had that happen on a 87 lt500r when the crank seal finally went it would rev super high . Fixed it and it ran way better and you could kick start it and didn’t have to pop start it
I would definitely pressure/vacuum test the engine for for air leaks, not idling no matter the carb adjustments is a good sign air is getting in somewhere it shouldn't. like others have said spark does look a tad weak at low rpm and make sure you guys run 2 stroke engines at high rpm, they dont like to lug down low like 4 strokes do.
Those reeds were fine, a 2 stroke has pulsating crank case pressure, when the pressure is a vacuum they open and pull fuel in.. When the case is positive pressure it seals the reed cage, the seeing daylight rule is referring to a very large amount of damage
@@gertscheper9653 maybe you missed the part where they said after installing the new reeds, it looked the same. As in the were in perfect condition still
The amount of pressure the piston produces in the crankcase isnt going to close the reed valve properly. The crankcase still has a breather vent. That pressure you think is closing the reeds is going to take the path of least resistance. Out the vent. The reeds should ALWAYS seat against the reed cage. It runs but its not as good as it could.
I diagnose weak / faulty spark. You should test and re-magnetize the rotor. That magnet gets weak over the years. A weak magnet produces a weak spark and no spark at low rpm. Plus rebuild the AC to DC bridge and smoothing condenser (which dries out) for ignition primary. Better yet is to measure the primary ignition voltage and replace the stator coil with a small battery (+ resistor). Dont touch the mag pickup coil for ignition timing.
This bike doesn't really have a powerband like a typical small bore, high revving two stroke. Its all low and mid range power. Making peak power and torque around 6k RPMs
Old 2-smoke guy here-- Engine overhaul. Rings and seals at minimum. Unfortunately, what happens to old carbolated 2 strokes, as the rings wear, they have compression, but not vaccuum. Or crapply vaccuum. So they don't draw into the crankcase worth beans on the upstroke, and they don't transfer the air-fuel mix up top effectively on the down stroke. Manifests as impossible to start, without a ton of piston speed, and terrible idle quality. (Or lack of idle.) Just because of lack o vac. For testing, I personally don't bother with compression testing, a cylinder leak down tester shows how things really are. Pain in the spleen to use, but if you have cylinder leak down over 10%, it's time for a top end. The other thing I have seen on the ols Suzuki Water-bufflos, and Yamaha Rz350's-- If the head gasket is a little old and a touch porous, when you shut the bike off on a hot cooling system, antifreeze will slowly trickle into the cylinders. Not enough to hydraulic it, but enough water/antifreeze to "put out the fire" so to speak. Although, usually a guy gets an over-pressure cooling system at the same time. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but that's how the old 2's are. This is also why they put in the corner of someone's shed and forgotten about. "It was hard to start, maybe it needs a carb job!" "It doesn't idle very good, I think the carb got some junk in it." Hopefully this helps, even if it's in a few months when you're less sick of the thing. :) If it makes you feel any better, these are my disease. You know how you guys are about the carts, and minibikes, and sometimes they beat you up trying to make them work? That's me and old 2 stroke bikes....
Great explanation. I never thought about the possible lack of vacuum even when you have good compression. I think I am experiencing this with a current project.
@@raymondsmith6504 Hopefully it helps you out! I was thinking about it after-- I used to do a thing where I clamped off the end of the carb, just with my hand, and stuck a vacuum gauge hose between my fingers-- They should make minimum of 15 inches of vac with a solid kick. Not as accurate as a leak-down tester, but gets you in the ballpark! :)
*100% Bad Engine ground*, this is why the spark is low at lower Speed , and will not idle Take wiring harness apart and clean it up! check all grounds. I have had this issue way too many times. Or Magnets are junk...
It *STILL* sounds like it's rich down on the bottom at idle, like the pilot jet is open too far. Easy way to tell is, while you're keeping it running with the throttle at idle, shut the gas off and wait for it to drain the bowl. If it speeds up considerably before it finally shuts off, it's too rich! I think you may still have mag problems as well. Seeing as that's the original flywheel, it may be getting weak, and need replacing. Also check the timing while it's running (with a timing light). It looks like it may be advanced a little further than the the other stator plate was when you pulled it out. The reed plate looks fine. They will slam shut on their own as soon as they detect positive pressure in the crankcase. Hope this helps!😉
Hi guys, and happy birthday, John! Two strokes are considerably more finicky than their four stroke counterparts. If you’re getting into them for the first time it can be an excruciating, defeating and overwhelmingly punishing learning curve. A couple things that the same frustrations taught me over the years, air leaks; I couldn’t see if you guys used any sealant (Hondabond and genuine Hondabond is the best) on the reed cage and the intake. Every surface from the cylinder, the bottom of the reed cage, the top of the reed cage to the bottom of the intake needs a light layer when sandwiching it all together. The rubber gasket alone isn’t sufficient in my experience. Try running an unlit propane torch around the intake at a lower but steady RPM and see if it picks up at all. Not being able to idle it’ll be harder for that test to generate an obvious but well worth it. Two strokes don’t idle for crap with even a slight air leak. Not to mention they’re a lot more detrimental on two strokes. Another source if you haven’t already, crank seals. They’re vital for any engine to live but again, being those seals could potentially be original that would more than cause instability with idling and hard starting being an air leak. Lastly, if your pipe cools off that fast after riding it long enough to get it up to temp, that screams a rich condition. Use a fresh plug and get that thing good and warm, row it through the gears and in your highest gear go WOT for a second, pull the clutch in and kill it. Come to a quick stop and pull the plug, if it’s wet or black you’re way rich, if it’s ashy or grey you’re lean. The ideal color is milk chocolate. Google a plug color chart and you’ll find it immediately. Forgive me if some it not all of that information is redundant but hopefully it’ll help get that thing going easier. Keep up the good work and don’t give up, the end result will be worth the headaches.
Definitely needs a rebuild, it not wanting to start cold but will start fine once warm is a sign it needs to be rebuilt. I promise with a fresh rebuild and it jetted right it will start fine. Yall dont understand two strokes they will act up like crazy if they need to be rebuilt
@joshuagibson2520 Piston rings (again top end rebuild) or maybe the fuel/oil ratio is off?? Could be another reason the plugs are fouling while also puttering around?
@@tristantilbury3870 Excessive smoking usually means their clutch side crank seal is gone. It'll suck the transmission oil in and burn it. If it revs to the moon on idle then the flywheel side crank seal is shot because it's sucking in air. Since it's not wanting to idle for beans and puffs like a chain smoker the clutch side crank seal is probably shot.
I remember the first time I saw one of these in person, someone blasting around dirt back roads. I was blown away to see a 2-stroke dirt bike make so much low end torque and zip straight to red line so quickly. And the sound is AMAZING when they run right. These bikes are bonkers.
No I'm absolutely disappointed this is such a joke. I've tried to watch about 8 different videos know because you guys find really cool stuff like the other Honda odyssey 350 then do a shit job of doing them justice. Take this 500 you bought a carb that's no better than stock , when you could bought a lectron carb for 200 more. then had the 1st 1 on you tube or w.e. you jb welded the cases rather than even you tube or Google a solution or even just find a replacement it's not taking the easy way around. The list goes on you guys should you tube the projects you find for ideas before, looking like you just Don give a fuck. Unless it's grown men assembling a mini bike or go cart you guys put no effort into decent build. And the timed lap is cool but what are we comparing it to is there a board I missed that has lap times, that would be cool to see if a bad ass go cart could out run a odyssey 350 or even cr 500
@@jbuchanaif they ride it like it's meant to be ridden WHEN they get it started, it wouldn't foul the plug. Therefore it would start better with the same plug in it...
If the spark is still a bit weak try switching to a ngk B8ES instead of the BR8ES. Looks like your coil has a resistor boot on it and you also have a resistor plug.
I used to hang around with a lot of friends who had bikes back in the mid 1980s. We had loads of different types, and of course when someone got a new bike, many of us would try it out. Perhaps my favourite of all time was the model 2 Suzuki 250 Gamma. I swear that thing would handle anything. But one friend bought an offroader with a view to get it up and running. A Honda CR. When he did, he took it out and I surely got a go on and it frightened the hell out of me. Across a ploughed field it just went stright through it.
Don't be afraid to try a hotter plug and to replace plug with a new one each time when it doesn't start. Use the choke to start, not the trick. Verify the timing is spot on. Mix seems very oil heavy. Seems that it takes too long to come up to compression.
My buddy 20 years ago had a kx500 late 80s. That bike did the exact same thing as this one. And we did the same stuff you said. Lighter on oil mix. And the biggest help for the bike was running rpm way higher. Isaac and John rode this cr500 like I would my boddys kx500. My buddy would be hanging out with balls draging in the dirt riding that kx. Then it wouldn't foul out plugs like these 2.
So you guys figured it out. Took a while but you got it. The reason it's so hard to kick start is that honda made the start gear to short. That's why it pops soon as you push start and drop the clutch.
The older bikes like a mix of 32:1 on my '89 rm250 i use VP fuels vp110 or 118 octane. also the older bikes are harder to start unless you get what I have because not much power to make a good spark stock ignition but if u add what I use its an ol school brand "roost-boost" made by answer added to my ignotion system its like an amplifier for the spark plug you'll see the huge difference it makes with how much more spark it makes vs before which by the way it also helps with idling cuz it amplifies that spark ther like $30-$40 on ebay and amazon
I wouldn’t put 32:1 if I was gonna lug it like they are with how they’re riding 40:1 or even 50:1 would work modern oils lubricant much better meaning you don’t need as much to get the same job done
File out the holes in the pickup coil. Fold a pice of paper an place it between the coil and flywheel pickup. Turn the air/fuel screw out 1.5 turns. You may need to downsize the idle jet. Also in the video he is cracking the throttle when he's kicking. Either don't twist throttle at all or open it 1/4 throttle and kick. Thers other stuff but those are the biggest things for now.
You’re not getting on the pipe like it’s ment to be. It’s a 2 stroke it’s meant to be in the high rpms. Use to have a lt500r that was just a bear to kick start broke my dads leg . I’ll never forget that
I heard he’s been carrying more and more weight in his cargo shorts’ pockets as a training exercise for kickstarting it. Since they bought the 500, he’s gotten up to 276lbs/day
This channel has quickly become one of those few I wish I had found years ago to follow the progress of things. I’m very new here, but I’m gonna be binging a LOT!
Been through all of this on 2-strokes. U guys are covering all bases except one. 66 yrs old & had several sparkplug CAPS (end of coil wire on top of plug) be the fkn cause of weeks of grief, time & $$$. $5 part.
Intermittent issue seems like a loose Ground; Verify all ground connections. 2 strokes rattle, the vibration w/ trail riding will jostle & loosen all bolts. Could TEST the first ever Odyssey 500!
How about some vintage two-stroke (Yes pedal cranks) mopeds? Puch, Peugeot, Honda, Tomos, Derbi, Kreidler, etc...But built into fast tuned off road bikes for your track. There are a lot of great tire options for "17 motorcycle wheels. Some for "16, like Tomos has. You can make some episodes with Ike's brother, since he's into bikes with pedal cranks..... There are a gazillion engine parts available for European vintage mopeds. You can get 20hp out of a 50cc two-stroke moped engine. And you can find lots of even larger cylinders. 70cc is common, and many use reed blocks. 😉
You could all have some featherweight two-stroke rippers, packed with power. No clutch lever to mess with, except the starter clutch, on most bikes. And many engines can be converted to pull-start, or kickstart, depending on what flavor ya like. You can fit A PILE OF VINTAGE MOPEDS on a basic 12' trailer. ....And their values are climbing every year, on many makes. I've had a few over the last 10 or so years. My current favorite bike is a German Red Kromag - Puch Swinger 2. Puch, and Kromag are Austrian. I've got a mid-tuned DMP piston port 70cc cylinder on mine. Also just recently mounted a NOS Bing 15mm round bowl, and a capacity/dwell modified Jamarcol Fuego pipe. 😁
With my little knowledge im going to plumb for compression related problem ,2 strokes rely on compresion and the kick start doesnt spin the engine over fast enough.on the compression test it took a long time to build up pressure.you cant set the carb up properly as if it has a vacume leak.i would check the crank seals again .put a smoke machine on it .?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LOOK UP HOW TO DO A LEAK DOWN TEST ON A TWO STROKE. My 1976 YZ400 had the same problem and it turned out to be a bad crank seal. it is worth looking into.
@@CarsandCameras❤❤ guys its an easy bike to start and can start first kick every time . spark plug is correct and gap is correct ,fuel mix needs to be fresh and the rite mix 50/1 but i ran in my rings with 35/1 ,and it will start ,winter time you need choke but not summer ,,give the throttle two full flicks ,,,,,piston has to be at TOP DEAD CENTER, and kick but do not twist throttle . the piston has to be at top dead center or it will never start,it will flood before it starts unless piston is top dead center. check the wire from coil to plug is not damaged ,,clean connections ,make sure that wire is triple insulated ,,you could be loosing some of your spark thru a thinly insulated wire to sparkplug.
I agree with everyone that changing the magnetic flywheel and checking the crankcase would solve the problem! It would definitely solve the problem! These videos with this bike were one of the most interesting things I watched in the last few days, I hope to have another video soon of you reviewing these things and it running smoothly!
One thing that i haven’t heard mentioned yet are crank seals, worn crank seals will cause all sorts of issues with a 2 stroke, i think that the crankcase should be pressure tested
If im correct the idle adjustment is by turning the choke in or out and adjusting the throttle cable that air fuel screw should be like 1 3/4 - 2 1/2 out from all the way in
I saw a nice clean one for sale on FB Marketplace at the beginning of spring in my area. They wanted $8,500 for it, which is out of my price bracket. You don't see them for sale very often. But when they pop up even at $8K they go like hot cakes.
@@TyCulp-mm1gd Same. The closest thing I own to a CR500 is a currently non-functioning 76 IT400 and a basket case 81 YZ465. They sound impressive in name only. 😆
Your spark plug may be too cold. SPARK PLUGS, SPARK PLUGS and more SPARKPLUGS! I raced this bike back in the day and I needed at least nine plugs with me every weekend. I would carry three different temp plugs and dry them out after every run but sometimes would only get 2-3 starts out of them before fouling out and into the trash they went. Hot plugs last a little longer. It's just the nature of the weak stock magnets and poor ignition system which is why we all used aftermarket ignition and still had to tune for the day. As far as the idle, fat idle jet and fairly high idle. It will sound too high but you'll get used to it. Don't give up because you will love that power band for future projects.
It’s all about jetting on a 2 stroke. Owned multiple 500 2 stroke bikes. Once you get it’s jetting right you will have to rejet the carb for every 15-20 degrees.
Okay got a couple questions and maybe solutions. When you first started it in this video just after you the replacement of carb, reeds, plug, and points. Did it not fire right up? When you park it for the day do you shut fuel off tank? What about emptying the bowl before putting it up? Have you pulled the plug after it shuts off to see how wet it is? And is the carb sitting level according to the bowl? Try this. Pull the plug after you get done riding see how wet it is. Leave it out for the night. Put the piston to the bottom of the cylinder so it can air it out. Turn fuel off and use the dump screw on the bowl to empty it out. If I was to guess the bowl is leaking fuel into the cylinder while it sits on the kick stand over night. It would explain why it fired up first thing after swapping the parts because it was sitting and not loaded with fuel already. If that works try just shutting the fuel off and dumping the bowl. If that works try just shutting the fuel off over night leaving the fuel in the bowl. Also you can try parking it straight up not on the kickstand so the bowl never spills out drawing more fuel. Maybe one other thing that will help try adjusting the float to close a little earlier. Will keep it from over filling and spilling out into the carb and dripping into the cylinder when on kick stand. causing a flooded condition before you even start it.. it won't fire right with a saturated plug. Had a Honda 125 that had same issues. That was the issue bowl leaking while on kick stand. We shut fuel off and dumped bowl nightly never had a issue after that.
Love the sound of the big bore 2 stokes. I used to have a Suzuki PE400. It too was a big pian in the butt to get started when it was cold. Got to the point that it was just way easier to push start then spend 10 minutes kicking it over. But once you got it started it too was a beast. Found out more than once that it could mess up your day reel quick if you push it just a little bit too much.
41:15 - 44:18 You can see the frustration combined with disappointment creating a form of anger that John was doing very well at keeping suppressed within. Most people who become possessed with this form of anger would have the bike crushed by now or tried to blow it up with tannerite or something, but John showed an unbelievable amount of restraint. My Honda 185s 3 wheeler got to where it was doing the exact same thing this bike is doing so I just threw in the towel and sold it. When something gets to the point its effecting one's mental health in a negative way, that's when you know its time to walk away immediately. John needs a couple days off to relax. 😵💫
The AIR screw controls the Idle. ... Once you get it running, turn AIR screw to fastest idle and leave it. Then turn idle screw to desired RPM. ... To read sparkplug, outside ring tells you Low jet (rich or lean) center of sparkplug tells you high-jet.
Chuck Sun at the nationals and High Point in the 80s he showed everyone what that 500 factory Honda! He was clearing the triple, when no one else could. He could ride the wheels off that , and it was worked bike
Arm chair quarterbacking is not fair but for what it is worth: you checked the compression but that was the only data you took before throwing parts at it. What is the spark voltage? Is it weak. You said it looked weak but just changed the plug. Spark testers are cheap. How about pressure testing the crankcase? Seal leakage will definitely cause hard starting. Is the exhaust too rich? Exhaust testers are old school and maybe hard to find these days but might give you a clue on what the mixture is when cranking.
2 strokes flood out in the crankcase. I don't remember but there should be a hose that goes from the crankcase to carb or fuel tank. Sometimes they use it for file pump. A tip is turn of fuel before you kill the ignition. This will help keep it dry.
I had this same bike in 1994. I was 10 but looked 18. It was used of course and looked exactly in the shape yours was/is. I was terrified of it for the first yr and my older brother rode it some… when it would start. Then one day I got on it and was hooked for the next 2 yrs. I had the same problems youre having, but had no idea how to fix them and nobody to ask either. My mom finally sold it when I left for college as it had been sitting for like 5 yrs. I wish I had youtube and was mech. Savvy to give it what it deserved.
Its called a bump start because you need to sit down hard on the seat when releasing the clutch in order to not drag the back tire due to compression. Bump start gives you aprox twice the engine rotation for starting. "Higher" compression, single extra large big bore, and 2t you will need higher and longer rpm to start than a kick will give you. New, thats a different story. PLEASE DONT LET THIS SPOIL 2T FOR YOU GUYS! I would love to see more 2t in the future!
Back in my teens in the 80's I knocked about with many 'crossers' and it was widely known that if the bike didn't have lights it was a 'race' bike and will NEVER IDLE because it's a safety feature. If your right hand is not of the grip to keep it running, it WILL CUT OUT! Don't argue with me, Google Carl Nunn and tell him he's wrong, He was a kid when I knew his Mum and Dad. My bag was an RM465, a complete beast I couldn't reach from the ground.
I would lean towards a vacuum leak either between the carburetor and cylinder, cylinder and case, or possibly crank seals. If the crank seals are the culprit, check the crank bearings for excessive wear. I have found that the exhaust pipe and/or muffler can be clogged causing hard starts as well.
YES!!! That's exactly her name (Elizabeth Rossiello) so many people have recommended highly about her and am just starting with her from Brisbane Australia 🇦🇺
When you kick a big bore cold you need to roll it over slow through a few rotations. After slow roll find point of highest resistance then let the kick starter ratchet back to the top of the stroke and give it a full force clean kick being sure not to linger at the bottom of the kick if you value your foot. Been running 500cc+ dirt bikes for over 20 years and as long as they are setup right and stored right the only other issue is a weak right leg... That said your spark does look a little weak and I always rely on my tuners instruction based on my elevation (after considering bike modifications) for my slider clip adjustment and jetting.
That is a simple bike and motor to work on. You guys do not know what you are doing! You do not read comments. I have told many times how to start that bike. I know what I am talking about because I raced that same bike in open pro class in 85.
@cars&cameras the “choke” really isn’t a choke it doesn’t cut the air supply off. It’s a enrichener. So if it’s starting easier with the choke then you need to fatten up your pilot jet. But I’ve commented every cr500 just sale it to me. Carb jetting is tricky with 2 strokes. Open the gap a little on the plug. Run it at a 32:1 pre mix with half 93 and half 110.
Dude, I've hated 2-strokes ever since I was 13... I'm 52 now... When I was a teenager I used to go find 2-stroke bikes just so I could take out the POS 2-stroke and put in a Decent Honda 4-stroke. One that I put together was a 1979 Kawasaki KM100 frame that I put a 1978 Honda XL125 engine into, now that was a fast bike... I "almost" outran an 84 Chevy truck with a 305 V8 on a flat straight paved road. He just barely passed me and he said he was doing over 85mph.
@@Rickthefirst It beat 2 different 175cc bikes, a Honda XL175 and a some kind of a Kawasaki 175cc 2-stroke motocross looking thing. I'm not sure quite why it was so fast, but like I said, the kawasaki KM100 frame is exactly the same size as a Honda XL80 frame, so I think that might have had something to do with it. IDK...
Happy birthday John. The problem you're having is a weak spark at low rpm. Close your plug gap. You can run as small a gap as 0.12. so start w/0.20 and go smaller until it starts. Try it you might thank me.
Also when you let the things sit overnight are used to turn the fuel off and run the bike out of fuel so it would not trickle into the chamber flooding
Great video guys it`s nice to see you working on the CR500 again also with it not wanting to idle it is very easy to put the carburetor slide in backwards and that`s possibly why your idle screw is doing nothing and to adjust your idle initially lift the slide with the throttle a bit with the engine off of course look down the throat of the carburebtor and you want a 3 to 4mm gap to start with then adjust it as needed once the engine is warm also turn off your petcock after riding as they do like to flood themselves as they cool down. I really think that is all of the problem with it guys i hope this helps you out to get it to idle. See you in the next one guys 👍😁
When the bikes are maintained good, they start no problem. If you know the starting sequence, you have to prime the engine you have to get it into the compression stroke and then you’ll have to jump on it. I was doing it when I was 15 years old our bike always started
change the flywheel magnet, check the crankcase leakdown, spend more time on jetting and carb setup, change to a metal idle screw, check the timing with a dial gauge
Try the base seals. If you get a idle change with propane torch gas. Don't light the torch, just use propane gas. I'd send it to Kaplin bikes in Connecticut. They'll get it figured out. Possible collaboration
From experience I always carried at least 4 extra plugs,some hot and some cold tip ones. As for the reed valve petals simply turn them upside-down so they seel. 👍❤️
I always had better luck with getting good spark out of the NGK BR8EV. The BR8ES was a cheap plug that worked, but didn't last long and run as good as the BR8EV. Another trick I used to do was hot spark it by leaving the plug cap floating off the top of the plug. I agree with the pilot jet being too big. It did sound rich.
I don't think you are getting enough rotation with the kick, my old big bore 2 strokes would start rotating right from the top with the kick starter. Seems like a lot of slop in the kick start gear.
Guys if you're gonna store it for a while you should fog down the motor as I used to do with my 299hp Yamaha Saltwater series outboard this will ensure you don't get any gumming up of the carbs (The outboard had 6) and put a good coating into the combustion chamber them put some WD-40 directly into the cyclinder but you do have to remember to remove the plug and kick it quite a few times so you don't hydrolock the cylinder and possibly bend the connecting Rod. Had my boat for 12 years, did all of the work myself and followed what I outlined above and the beast came to life every year without a hiccup and mind you I live in NY so the winters here can get brutal.
others have said replace the crank case gasket id pressure test it the crank case gasket is something you dont eff with untill you know for sure or believe that its bad i cant recall for certain but if yall havent cleaned the crud out of the exhaust pipe that would be a Good thing to check they do get build up in them (not necessarily clogged) that changes the way the engine runs also if that thing has a spark arrestor screen in the exhaust clean it as well
This is a long shot guys, but I wonder if your problem is air leaks. That would always lead you down the garden path with carburation as it's inconsistent with results. I note that how the airbox assembly bolts to the seat frame and when you strike it up the carb rattles around like crazy. Given you've already had reed seating problems, couple that with the fact the seals on the ducting from the carb and from the airbox might not be so good anymore, I would be trying to make sure they're as tight as can be.
I really think you still have an ignition issue. That weak spark in the beginning of the video told the story. The slower you turned the engine, the weaker the spark was. That's why it only starts pushing it down the hill. Test, or replace the pickup coil with a good unit, and make sure you can get the proper gap. Then check the spark again. I'm willing to bet that solves a lot of your issue. Idle tuning is impossible without proper ignition. Good luck boys!
I remembered one of bikes that we abused when was younger. Basically same deal. One of the engine halfs was bit tinged . And this was located between crank and gearbox.
the cdi's like to go out to. I run a 38mm pwk non air Stryker on a 380cc trx 250r. The trx 250r cdi's went south and they were 86-89..im sure the older cr500s had the same issue with age. You could always replace the reed cage with a aftermarket one.
I had a 85 cr 500, how I got it to start was to rotate the kick starter forward, it takes more of a stroke to get the speed of the kick up enough to start them. The kick starter should lean forward about 20 degrees so it starts the kick at the top
setting up idel grab yourself a colour plug this will allow you to see the colour of the flame and set it right then got from there with all other carb adjustments plus i think stiffer reeds to make sure they seal better might be an option also i see the statur plate is adjustable so i would also check for timing specs how many degree befor tdc etc
You guys should really consider the following, #1 getting one of those start roller things they use for race bikes they use to bump start the old flat track bikes. #2 installing a front HUB motor so you can just keep bump starting the bike.
I think this bike deserves a full build. It's an Icon, 80's CR 500. This is the beast of 2 strokes. Engine gone through, frame sprayed budget wise, new bars, grips, and then just enjoy... we got to keep them alive or they will be forgotten, just like manual cars.
I had one in the late 90’s that ran like a dream. My mate had the exact same year and his was a pig. Came down to the mating surfaces on the cases around the bottom end. Once they were put on the surface plate and honed to sweet. It ran heaps better. Also his liked to run a little leaner on the oil mix in the fuel.
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Whilst I agree with other commenters that a crank seal issue could be the problem, Id wager that the issue is weak spark particularly at low RPM, Honda designed these engines with the bare minimum flywheel and magnet 40 plus years ago, to save as much weight as possible in a race application, over the years and the many heat cycles those magnets have weakened IMHO resulting in no idle / poor start , the solution would be to either get an engineering company to remove and replace the existing magnets in the flywheel (preferably with modern neodymium magnets) or find a good after-market one.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!
U R A DAM GENIUS GUMP LOL LOL!! How can you get through to theses guys to tell them whats wrong??
They should just replace the stock flywheel with the HPI system. I'd like to get one for my 76 IT400 but I need to work on it first before eyeing any fancy bits.
Someone who builds custom speakers could recharge the field or maybe a Marina that repairs old outboards might have the machine around to do it
It's was a bitch to start in 85 from new, just put it in 2-3 gear, and pull it with something, there is nothing wrong with it, it's a really big piston, and Honda didn't make it easy to start, ever. But it's so fun to ride👍, most fun dirt bike I ever tried😉.
It may have compression, spark and fuel, but there's one thing you guys haven't checked. On a two stroke, you need to check for leaks in the crankcase. It's how you find bad crank seals, cracked carburetor boots and blown cylinder base gaskets. Those will all create air leaks that make the bike run super poorly and be hard to start.
they already did it in privious video
Yeah, already done
They already did
I've got the same Air Stryker carb on my 89 FL400 Pilot. Great video!
As much as they have ran this bike, if it had any type of leak like that, it would cause a lean condition and melt down. The Piston. Crank seals are a possibility but they still are not having lean condition because the bike still runs
You changed the stater but you DID NOT change the MAGNETIC BELL, Remember when the magnets failed in the 670 dragster? That is why you have weak spark.
?
DING DING DING!!!!!! YOUR RIGHT! IT IS A FIRING PROBLEM
@@ambersmith6517 That is why it dont idle and dont start until it is towed fast for a higher voltage spark.
I dnt know anything about Hondas do that have a regular/rectifier that going along with the stator?
That sounds like it could really be it
@@grizzly-bear-1k24miles2 Nope, the stator just charges up the CDI unit, and then the trigger coil drops the field and fires the ignition coil. I'm not sure if these have auto-spark-advance like the ATV's or not.
Call Craig. Everybody needs a Craig.
I have a Craig but his name is Jimmy. Everyone needs one.
I came here to say that!
Email Dan and maybe they will send Greg to help😅
He might send Greg though.
That would be the best collaboration ever! If that doesn't get it running, call Kaplan's wizard 😀 don't give up though!
Need to check your crank seals on the engine. If those are bad they will allow more air in and your tune will be way off and also causes a very hard to start issue.
👍👍👍👍
We had that happen on a 87 lt500r when the crank seal finally went it would rev super high . Fixed it and it ran way better and you could kick start it and didn’t have to pop start it
Came to say this
they already replaced the crank seals i believe in an earlier episode
Case gasket can cause the same problem.
I would definitely pressure/vacuum test the engine for for air leaks, not idling no matter the carb adjustments is a good sign air is getting in somewhere it shouldn't. like others have said spark does look a tad weak at low rpm and make sure you guys run 2 stroke engines at high rpm, they dont like to lug down low like 4 strokes do.
Those reeds were fine, a 2 stroke has pulsating crank case pressure, when the pressure is a vacuum they open and pull fuel in.. When the case is positive pressure it seals the reed cage, the seeing daylight rule is referring to a very large amount of damage
so true its push and suck
And that was a large amount of damage.
Those reeds where gone.
@@gertscheper9653 maybe you missed the part where they said after installing the new reeds, it looked the same. As in the were in perfect condition still
@@bryan7866no , i did not miss that part. The reeds should lay flat on the reed cage.
The amount of pressure the piston produces in the crankcase isnt going to close the reed valve properly. The crankcase still has a breather vent. That pressure you think is closing the reeds is going to take the path of least resistance. Out the vent.
The reeds should ALWAYS seat against the reed cage. It runs but its not as good as it could.
I diagnose weak / faulty spark.
You should test and re-magnetize the rotor. That magnet gets weak over the years. A weak magnet produces a weak spark and no spark at low rpm. Plus rebuild the AC to DC bridge and smoothing condenser (which dries out) for ignition primary.
Better yet is to measure the primary ignition voltage and replace the stator coil with a small battery (+ resistor). Dont touch the mag pickup coil for ignition timing.
You haven't really tamed that bike, until you can hold on throughout the PowerBand hits lol
This bike doesn't really have a powerband like a typical small bore, high revving two stroke. Its all low and mid range power. Making peak power and torque around 6k RPMs
@@ncopp4358 Blown away to find out they make more torque than a modern 450 4 stroke
Ride the clutch
@@ncopp4358 then it ain’t no widow maker
@@bobdillon1138 Right? These bikes make explosive power. You crack that throttle and its just... Everything.
Old 2-smoke guy here-- Engine overhaul. Rings and seals at minimum. Unfortunately, what happens to old carbolated 2 strokes, as the rings wear, they have compression, but not vaccuum. Or crapply vaccuum. So they don't draw into the crankcase worth beans on the upstroke, and they don't transfer the air-fuel mix up top effectively on the down stroke.
Manifests as impossible to start, without a ton of piston speed, and terrible idle quality. (Or lack of idle.) Just because of lack o vac.
For testing, I personally don't bother with compression testing, a cylinder leak down tester shows how things really are. Pain in the spleen to use, but if you have cylinder leak down over 10%, it's time for a top end.
The other thing I have seen on the ols Suzuki Water-bufflos, and Yamaha Rz350's-- If the head gasket is a little old and a touch porous, when you shut the bike off on a hot cooling system, antifreeze will slowly trickle into the cylinders. Not enough to hydraulic it, but enough water/antifreeze to "put out the fire" so to speak. Although, usually a guy gets an over-pressure cooling system at the same time.
I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but that's how the old 2's are. This is also why they put in the corner of someone's shed and forgotten about. "It was hard to start, maybe it needs a carb job!" "It doesn't idle very good, I think the carb got some junk in it."
Hopefully this helps, even if it's in a few months when you're less sick of the thing. :) If it makes you feel any better, these are my disease. You know how you guys are about the carts, and minibikes, and sometimes they beat you up trying to make them work? That's me and old 2 stroke bikes....
Great explanation. I never thought about the possible lack of vacuum even when you have good compression. I think I am experiencing this with a current project.
@@raymondsmith6504 Hopefully it helps you out! I was thinking about it after-- I used to do a thing where I clamped off the end of the carb, just with my hand, and stuck a vacuum gauge hose between my fingers-- They should make minimum of 15 inches of vac with a solid kick. Not as accurate as a leak-down tester, but gets you in the ballpark! :)
Clean the contacts between the frame and the coil for best spark
I bet he's got a bad ground somewhere...
*100% Bad Engine ground*, this is why the spark is low at lower Speed , and will not idle
Take wiring harness apart and clean it up! check all grounds.
I have had this issue way too many times.
Or Magnets are junk...
Yall need to get that bike in the power band.
It *STILL* sounds like it's rich down on the bottom at idle, like the pilot jet is open too far. Easy way to tell is, while you're keeping it running with the throttle at idle, shut the gas off and wait for it to drain the bowl. If it speeds up considerably before it finally shuts off, it's too rich! I think you may still have mag problems as well. Seeing as that's the original flywheel, it may be getting weak, and need replacing. Also check the timing while it's running (with a timing light). It looks like it may be advanced a little further than the the other stator plate was when you pulled it out. The reed plate looks fine. They will slam shut on their own as soon as they detect positive pressure in the crankcase. Hope this helps!😉
You flooded it you don't need to tip it over when it's warm
Hi guys, and happy birthday, John!
Two strokes are considerably more finicky than their four stroke counterparts. If you’re getting into them for the first time it can be an excruciating, defeating and overwhelmingly punishing learning curve.
A couple things that the same frustrations taught me over the years, air leaks; I couldn’t see if you guys used any sealant (Hondabond and genuine Hondabond is the best) on the reed cage and the intake. Every surface from the cylinder, the bottom of the reed cage, the top of the reed cage to the bottom of the intake needs a light layer when sandwiching it all together. The rubber gasket alone isn’t sufficient in my experience.
Try running an unlit propane torch around the intake at a lower but steady RPM and see if
it picks up at all. Not being able to idle it’ll be harder for that test to generate an obvious but well worth it. Two strokes don’t idle for crap with even a slight air leak. Not to mention they’re a lot more detrimental on two strokes.
Another source if you haven’t already, crank seals. They’re vital for any engine to live but again, being those seals could potentially be original that would more than cause instability with idling and hard starting being an air leak.
Lastly, if your pipe cools off that fast after riding it long enough to get it up to temp, that screams a rich condition. Use a fresh plug and get that thing good and warm, row it through the gears and in your highest gear go WOT for a second, pull the clutch in and kill it. Come to a quick stop and pull the plug, if it’s wet or black you’re way rich, if it’s ashy or grey you’re lean. The ideal color is milk chocolate.
Google a plug color chart and you’ll find it immediately. Forgive me if some it not all of that information is redundant but hopefully it’ll help get that thing going easier.
Keep up the good work and don’t give up, the end result will be worth the headaches.
Definitely needs a rebuild, it not wanting to start cold but will start fine once warm is a sign it needs to be rebuilt. I promise with a fresh rebuild and it jetted right it will start fine. Yall dont understand two strokes they will act up like crazy if they need to be rebuilt
Exactly! My '94 CR500 would start first kick every time!
@@brianvasko5048 two strokes are the engine that will definitely let you know when they need rebuilt they will act just like their bike does
Seems like it smokes an awful lot more than it should too.
@joshuagibson2520 Piston rings (again top end rebuild) or maybe the fuel/oil ratio is off?? Could be another reason the plugs are fouling while also puttering around?
@@tristantilbury3870 Excessive smoking usually means their clutch side crank seal is gone. It'll suck the transmission oil in and burn it. If it revs to the moon on idle then the flywheel side crank seal is shot because it's sucking in air. Since it's not wanting to idle for beans and puffs like a chain smoker the clutch side crank seal is probably shot.
I remember the first time I saw one of these in person, someone blasting around dirt back roads. I was blown away to see a 2-stroke dirt bike make so much low end torque and zip straight to red line so quickly. And the sound is AMAZING when they run right. These bikes are bonkers.
Not hating guys, that is not meant to be putted around on..u got a greyhound in an apartment
Exactly
Right on!
No I'm absolutely disappointed this is such a joke. I've tried to watch about 8 different videos know because you guys find really cool stuff like the other Honda odyssey 350 then do a shit job of doing them justice. Take this 500 you bought a carb that's no better than stock , when you could bought a lectron carb for 200 more. then had the 1st 1 on you tube or w.e. you jb welded the cases rather than even you tube or Google a solution or even just find a replacement it's not taking the easy way around. The list goes on you guys should you tube the projects you find for ideas before, looking like you just Don give a fuck. Unless it's grown men assembling a mini bike or go cart you guys put no effort into decent build. And the timed lap is cool but what are we comparing it to is there a board I missed that has lap times, that would be cool to see if a bad ass go cart could out run a odyssey 350 or even cr 500
True, but there's no point n taking it somewhere they can use it like it was meant to unless they can get it started reliably.
@@jbuchanaif they ride it like it's meant to be ridden WHEN they get it started, it wouldn't foul the plug. Therefore it would start better with the same plug in it...
If the spark is still a bit weak try switching to a ngk B8ES instead of the BR8ES. Looks like your coil has a resistor boot on it and you also have a resistor plug.
Fucking every thing runs a damn br8es my damn boat even
@@jamesmcclain3588 if you run a resistor cap and a resistor plug spark is real weak
@@jamesmcclain3588 yes r is resister plug, if its a resister boot or the new cdi has a resister your spart is gonna be weak.
also if y want a hotter spark move up in numbers on ngk plugs. b9hs would get you a hotter spark on the same set up
check the crank seals its ok
They did do seals
@@Motorsandstuff well they can leak anyway.
did they install them correctly undamaged ??? ..............not throwing shade it can happen
I used to hang around with a lot of friends who had bikes back in the mid 1980s. We had loads of different types, and of course when someone got a new bike, many of us would try it out. Perhaps my favourite of all time was the model 2 Suzuki 250 Gamma. I swear that thing would handle anything.
But one friend bought an offroader with a view to get it up and running. A Honda CR. When he did, he took it out and I surely got a go on and it frightened the hell out of me. Across a ploughed field it just went stright through it.
Don't be afraid to try a hotter plug and to replace plug with a new one each time when it doesn't start. Use the choke to start, not the trick. Verify the timing is spot on. Mix seems very oil heavy. Seems that it takes too long to come up to compression.
VERY oil heavy.
My buddy 20 years ago had a kx500 late 80s.
That bike did the exact same thing as this one.
And we did the same stuff you said.
Lighter on oil mix.
And the biggest help for the bike was running rpm way higher.
Isaac and John rode this cr500 like I would my boddys kx500.
My buddy would be hanging out with balls draging in the dirt riding that kx.
Then it wouldn't foul out plugs like these 2.
Heat the plug really well with a blowtorch. Adds compression ignition, which likes a lot of fuel.
@@joshuagibson2520
So running lean... more oil = less fuel.
@@isickofitnot exactly because oil is much harder to burn than fuel meaning it runs like it has way too much fuel
So you guys figured it out. Took a while but you got it. The reason it's so hard to kick start is that honda made the start gear to short. That's why it pops soon as you push start and drop the clutch.
The older bikes like a mix of 32:1 on my '89 rm250 i use VP fuels vp110 or 118 octane. also the older bikes are harder to start unless you get what I have because not much power to make a good spark stock ignition but if u add what I use its an ol school brand "roost-boost" made by answer added to my ignotion system its like an amplifier for the spark plug you'll see the huge difference it makes with how much more spark it makes vs before which by the way it also helps with idling cuz it amplifies that spark ther like $30-$40 on ebay and amazon
I wouldn’t put 32:1 if I was gonna lug it like they are with how they’re riding 40:1 or even 50:1 would work modern oils lubricant much better meaning you don’t need as much to get the same job done
The "RoostBoost" only boosted the marketers bank account. It didnt actually do anything.
File out the holes in the pickup coil. Fold a pice of paper an place it between the coil and flywheel pickup. Turn the air/fuel screw out 1.5 turns. You may need to downsize the idle jet. Also in the video he is cracking the throttle when he's kicking. Either don't twist throttle at all or open it 1/4 throttle and kick. Thers other stuff but those are the biggest things for now.
You’re not getting on the pipe like it’s ment to be. It’s a 2 stroke it’s meant to be in the high rpms. Use to have a lt500r that was just a bear to kick start broke my dads leg . I’ll never forget that
This dude must have the strongest leg on the planet.
I heard he’s been carrying more and more weight in his cargo shorts’ pockets as a training exercise for kickstarting it. Since they bought the 500, he’s gotten up to 276lbs/day
Petition #3 to bring back the 670 craftsman racing mower
@@st.croixbuilds only part left of it is the motor and it’s on the rail
No
Hpi ignition ftw. I've used it on all my 480s and 500s. Works great everytime!
This channel has quickly become one of those few I wish I had found years ago to follow the progress of things. I’m very new here, but I’m gonna be binging a LOT!
I think I started when they did the 50$ go kart build. It’s the red one with the blue wheels I think it’s one of their most popular ones
Before the jeb bush incident, (R.IP)
@@robertbelote5273 LMAO, goooood times!
Been through all of this on 2-strokes. U guys are covering all bases except one. 66 yrs old & had several sparkplug CAPS (end of coil wire on top of plug) be the fkn cause of weeks of grief, time & $$$. $5 part.
Intermittent issue seems like a loose Ground; Verify all ground connections. 2 strokes rattle, the vibration w/ trail riding will jostle & loosen all bolts. Could TEST the first ever Odyssey 500!
Know a guy that raced those in the CA desert 40 years ago. He still limps, badly... Be careful on that thing!
How about some vintage two-stroke (Yes pedal cranks) mopeds? Puch, Peugeot, Honda, Tomos, Derbi, Kreidler, etc...But built into fast tuned off road bikes for your track. There are a lot of great tire options for "17 motorcycle wheels. Some for "16, like Tomos has. You can make some episodes with Ike's brother, since he's into bikes with pedal cranks..... There are a gazillion engine parts available for European vintage mopeds. You can get 20hp out of a 50cc two-stroke moped engine. And you can find lots of even larger cylinders. 70cc is common, and many use reed blocks. 😉
You could all have some featherweight two-stroke rippers, packed with power. No clutch lever to mess with, except the starter clutch, on most bikes. And many engines can be converted to pull-start, or kickstart, depending on what flavor ya like. You can fit A PILE OF VINTAGE MOPEDS on a basic 12' trailer. ....And their values are climbing every year, on many makes. I've had a few over the last 10 or so years. My current favorite bike is a German Red Kromag - Puch Swinger 2. Puch, and Kromag are Austrian. I've got a mid-tuned DMP piston port 70cc cylinder on mine. Also just recently mounted a NOS Bing 15mm round bowl, and a capacity/dwell modified Jamarcol Fuego pipe. 😁
With my little knowledge im going to plumb for compression related problem ,2 strokes rely on compresion and the kick start doesnt spin the engine over fast enough.on the compression test it took a long time to build up pressure.you cant set the carb up properly as if it has a vacume leak.i would check the crank seals again .put a smoke machine on it .?
The shop now has CR500 corner😆
🤣🤣🤣
Dumb question/ hard starting, ever check the timing??
Rebuild the cr500 engine and it will run fine. Quit being lazy
Make it a giveaway id buy something
Just a thought for you guys. You get a full retrofit starter motor kit from Panthera Motorsports for the cr500...just a suggestion 😂
I’ve always been told and it’s always worked when shit floods you hold that throttle wide the open.. it was burble back to life
Finally a cr500 video
Always wide open throttle when testing compression. As a bonus, wide open throttle is how you start a flooded dirtbike. Give that a try!
Not gonna lie. The way Ike eats that cake looks like somthing i would do 😂
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LOOK UP HOW TO DO A LEAK DOWN TEST ON A TWO STROKE. My 1976 YZ400 had the same problem and it turned out to be a bad crank seal. it is worth looking into.
Happy birthday, john
Happy bday John
Thank you!
@@CarsandCameras❤❤ guys its an easy bike to start and can start first kick every time .
spark plug is correct and gap is correct ,fuel mix needs to be fresh and the rite mix 50/1 but i ran in my rings with 35/1 ,and it will start ,winter time you need choke but not summer ,,give the throttle two full flicks ,,,,,piston has to be at TOP DEAD CENTER, and kick but do not twist throttle . the piston has to be at top dead center or it will never start,it will flood before it starts unless piston is top dead center.
check the wire from coil to plug is not damaged ,,clean connections ,make sure that wire is triple insulated ,,you could be loosing some of your spark thru a thinly insulated wire to sparkplug.
@@CarsandCamerasoh and wear as much safety clothing as possiblw
@@CarsandCameras42 right?
I agree with everyone that changing the magnetic flywheel and checking the crankcase would solve the problem! It would definitely solve the problem! These videos with this bike were one of the most interesting things I watched in the last few days, I hope to have another video soon of you reviewing these things and it running smoothly!
One thing that i haven’t heard mentioned yet are crank seals, worn crank seals will cause all sorts of issues with a 2 stroke, i think that the crankcase should be pressure tested
If im correct the idle adjustment is by turning the choke in or out and adjusting the throttle cable that air fuel screw should be like 1 3/4 - 2 1/2 out from all the way in
What a bike. I would love to own a cr500 one day, truly a bike every rider and or collector wants.
I saw a nice clean one for sale on FB Marketplace at the beginning of spring in my area. They wanted $8,500 for it, which is out of my price bracket. You don't see them for sale very often. But when they pop up even at $8K they go like hot cakes.
@@Slane583 That’s why I don’t have one yet 😂
@@TyCulp-mm1gd Same. The closest thing I own to a CR500 is a currently non-functioning 76 IT400 and a basket case 81 YZ465. They sound impressive in name only. 😆
Your spark plug may be too cold.
SPARK PLUGS, SPARK PLUGS and more SPARKPLUGS! I raced this bike back in the day and I needed at least nine plugs with me every weekend. I would carry three different temp plugs and dry them out after every run but sometimes would only get 2-3 starts out of them before fouling out and into the trash they went. Hot plugs last a little longer. It's just the nature of the weak stock magnets and poor ignition system which is why we all used aftermarket ignition and still had to tune for the day.
As far as the idle, fat idle jet and fairly high idle. It will sound too high but you'll get used to it.
Don't give up because you will love that power band for future projects.
You guys ever take that thing over any sweet jumps?
LMAO
It’s all about jetting on a 2 stroke. Owned multiple 500 2 stroke bikes. Once you get it’s jetting right you will have to rejet the carb for every 15-20 degrees.
It took a while to get that compression up. Rebuild?
@cosinesquared4125 ,I was wondering about compression because it took them alot of kicks to reach 140psi.
Okay got a couple questions and maybe solutions. When you first started it in this video just after you the replacement of carb, reeds, plug, and points. Did it not fire right up? When you park it for the day do you shut fuel off tank? What about emptying the bowl before putting it up? Have you pulled the plug after it shuts off to see how wet it is? And is the carb sitting level according to the bowl? Try this. Pull the plug after you get done riding see how wet it is. Leave it out for the night. Put the piston to the bottom of the cylinder so it can air it out. Turn fuel off and use the dump screw on the bowl to empty it out. If I was to guess the bowl is leaking fuel into the cylinder while it sits on the kick stand over night. It would explain why it fired up first thing after swapping the parts because it was sitting and not loaded with fuel already. If that works try just shutting the fuel off and dumping the bowl. If that works try just shutting the fuel off over night leaving the fuel in the bowl. Also you can try parking it straight up not on the kickstand so the bowl never spills out drawing more fuel. Maybe one other thing that will help try adjusting the float to close a little earlier. Will keep it from over filling and spilling out into the carb and dripping into the cylinder when on kick stand. causing a flooded condition before you even start it.. it won't fire right with a saturated plug. Had a Honda 125 that had same issues. That was the issue bowl leaking while on kick stand. We shut fuel off and dumped bowl nightly never had a issue after that.
If you guys would contact dirt bike Fab he'd tell you everything you're doing alright everything you're doing wrong he knows them bikes inside and out
I was about to recommend the same, he tends to understand these old bikes pretty well.
Love the sound of the big bore 2 stokes. I used to have a Suzuki PE400. It too was a big pian in the butt to get started when it was cold. Got to the point that it was just way easier to push start then spend 10 minutes kicking it over. But once you got it started it too was a beast. Found out more than once that it could mess up your day reel quick if you push it just a little bit too much.
41:15 - 44:18 You can see the frustration combined with disappointment creating a form of anger that John was doing very well at keeping suppressed within. Most people who become possessed with this form of anger would have the bike crushed by now or tried to blow it up with tannerite or something, but John showed an unbelievable amount of restraint. My Honda 185s 3 wheeler got to where it was doing the exact same thing this bike is doing so I just threw in the towel and sold it. When something gets to the point its effecting one's mental health in a negative way, that's when you know its time to walk away immediately. John needs a couple days off to relax. 😵💫
I had same issues w mine..I turned my fuel shut off a little more to the off side.less fuel in carb and had no plug issues and works now.b safe peace.
have the stand under the bike when kickstarting. the suspension is eating up your momentum.
Sound advice.
The AIR screw controls the Idle.
...
Once you get it running, turn AIR screw to fastest idle and leave it. Then turn idle screw to desired RPM.
...
To read sparkplug, outside ring tells you Low jet (rich or lean) center of sparkplug tells you high-jet.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOHN🎉🎉
Chuck Sun at the nationals and High Point in the 80s he showed everyone what that 500 factory Honda! He was clearing the triple, when no one else could.
He could ride the wheels off that , and it was worked bike
Arm chair quarterbacking is not fair but for what it is worth: you checked the compression but that was the only data you took before throwing parts at it. What is the spark voltage? Is it weak. You said it looked weak but just changed the plug. Spark testers are cheap. How about pressure testing the crankcase? Seal leakage will definitely cause hard starting. Is the exhaust too rich? Exhaust testers are old school and maybe hard to find these days but might give you a clue on what the mixture is when cranking.
2 strokes flood out in the crankcase. I don't remember but there should be a hose that goes from the crankcase to carb or fuel tank. Sometimes they use it for file pump. A tip is turn of fuel before you kill the ignition. This will help keep it dry.
yall definitely need to make more dirt bike content!!!
I had this same bike in 1994. I was 10 but looked 18. It was used of course and looked exactly in the shape yours was/is. I was terrified of it for the first yr and my older brother rode it some… when it would start. Then one day I got on it and was hooked for the next 2 yrs. I had the same problems youre having, but had no idea how to fix them and nobody to ask either. My mom finally sold it when I left for college as it had been sitting for like 5 yrs. I wish I had youtube and was mech. Savvy to give it what it deserved.
Its called a bump start because you need to sit down hard on the seat when releasing the clutch in order to not drag the back tire due to compression. Bump start gives you aprox twice the engine rotation for starting. "Higher" compression, single extra large big bore, and 2t you will need higher and longer rpm to start than a kick will give you. New, thats a different story. PLEASE DONT LET THIS SPOIL 2T FOR YOU GUYS! I would love to see more 2t in the future!
Back in 1987, I Owned a CR250R !!!!! I Loved it! When I joined the Navy, my parents sold it to pay their bills.
Back in my teens in the 80's I knocked about with many 'crossers' and it was widely known that if the bike didn't have lights it was a 'race' bike and will NEVER IDLE because it's a safety feature. If your right hand is not of the grip to keep it running, it WILL CUT OUT!
Don't argue with me, Google Carl Nunn and tell him he's wrong, He was a kid when I knew his Mum and Dad.
My bag was an RM465, a complete beast I couldn't reach from the ground.
I would lean towards a vacuum leak either between the carburetor and cylinder, cylinder and case, or possibly crank seals. If the crank seals are the culprit, check the crank bearings for excessive wear. I have found that the exhaust pipe and/or muffler can be clogged causing hard starts as well.
That bike is made for WOT all the time. Find a real long straight and see if you can hit 2nd power band. 😂
Happy birthday John. Love all the content.
I'm favoured, $50K every week! I can now give back to the locals in my communitv and also support God's work and the church.God bless
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You trade also?, I
No I don't trade on my own anymore, I always required help and assistance
From my personal financial advisor
..
YES!!! That's exactly her name (Elizabeth Rossiello) so many people have recommended highly about her and am just starting with her from Brisbane Australia 🇦🇺
When you kick a big bore cold you need to roll it over slow through a few rotations. After slow roll find point of highest resistance then let the kick starter ratchet back to the top of the stroke and give it a full force clean kick being sure not to linger at the bottom of the kick if you value your foot. Been running 500cc+ dirt bikes for over 20 years and as long as they are setup right and stored right the only other issue is a weak right leg... That said your spark does look a little weak and I always rely on my tuners instruction based on my elevation (after considering bike modifications) for my slider clip adjustment and jetting.
That is a simple bike and motor to work on. You guys do not know what you are doing! You do not read comments. I have told many times how to start that bike. I know what I am talking about because I raced that same bike in open pro class in 85.
@cars&cameras the “choke” really isn’t a choke it doesn’t cut the air supply off. It’s a enrichener. So if it’s starting easier with the choke then you need to fatten up your pilot jet. But I’ve commented every cr500 just sale it to me.
Carb jetting is tricky with 2 strokes. Open the gap a little on the plug. Run it at a 32:1 pre mix with half 93 and half 110.
Dude, I've hated 2-strokes ever since I was 13... I'm 52 now...
When I was a teenager I used to go find 2-stroke bikes just so I could take out the POS 2-stroke and put in a Decent Honda 4-stroke.
One that I put together was a 1979 Kawasaki KM100 frame that I put a 1978 Honda XL125 engine into, now that was a fast bike... I "almost" outran an 84 Chevy truck with a 305 V8 on a flat straight paved road. He just barely passed me and he said he was doing over 85mph.
Xl 125 top speed is about 50 mph but ok
@@Rickthefirst It beat 2 different 175cc bikes, a Honda XL175 and a some kind of a Kawasaki 175cc 2-stroke motocross looking thing. I'm not sure quite why it was so fast, but like I said, the kawasaki KM100 frame is exactly the same size as a Honda XL80 frame, so I think that might have had something to do with it. IDK...
Happy birthday John. The problem you're having is a weak spark at low rpm.
Close your plug gap. You can run as small a gap as 0.12. so start w/0.20 and go smaller until it starts. Try it you might thank me.
Also when you let the things sit overnight are used to turn the fuel off and run the bike out of fuel so it would not trickle into the chamber flooding
Great video guys it`s nice to see you working on the CR500 again also with it not wanting to idle it is very easy to put the carburetor slide in backwards and that`s possibly why your idle screw is doing nothing and to adjust your idle initially lift the slide with the throttle a bit with the engine off of course look down the throat of the carburebtor and you want a 3 to 4mm gap to start with then adjust it as needed once the engine is warm also turn off your petcock after riding as they do like to flood themselves as they cool down. I really think that is all of the problem with it guys i hope this helps you out to get it to idle. See you in the next one guys 👍😁
When the bikes are maintained good, they start no problem. If you know the starting sequence, you have to prime the engine you have to get it into the compression stroke and then you’ll have to jump on it. I was doing it when I was 15 years old our bike always started
change the flywheel magnet, check the crankcase leakdown, spend more time on jetting and carb setup, change to a metal idle screw, check the timing with a dial gauge
Try the base seals. If you get a idle change with propane torch gas. Don't light the torch, just use propane gas. I'd send it to Kaplin bikes in Connecticut. They'll get it figured out. Possible collaboration
I agree,forget the idle,keep it On the pipe,what it's designed for,you're having good fun as usual,keep the vids coming
I wonder if there is an air leak in the case maybe around the seals or between the two case halfs
From experience I always carried at least 4 extra plugs,some hot and some cold tip ones. As for the reed valve petals simply turn them upside-down so they seel. 👍❤️
I always had better luck with getting good spark out of the NGK BR8EV. The BR8ES was a cheap plug that worked, but didn't last long and run as good as the BR8EV. Another trick I used to do was hot spark it by leaving the plug cap floating off the top of the plug. I agree with the pilot jet being too big. It did sound rich.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOHNNY!!
Oregon approves.
I don't think you are getting enough rotation with the kick, my old big bore 2 strokes would start rotating right from the top with the kick starter. Seems like a lot of slop in the kick start gear.
Guys if you're gonna store it for a while you should fog down the motor as I used to do with my 299hp Yamaha Saltwater series outboard this will ensure you don't get any gumming up of the carbs (The outboard had 6) and put a good coating into the combustion chamber them put some WD-40 directly into the cyclinder but you do have to remember to remove the plug and kick it quite a few times so you don't hydrolock the cylinder and possibly bend the connecting Rod. Had my boat for 12 years, did all of the work myself and followed what I outlined above and the beast came to life every year without a hiccup and mind you I live in NY so the winters here can get brutal.
others have said replace the crank case gasket id pressure test it the crank case gasket is something you dont eff with untill you know for sure or believe that its bad i cant recall for certain but if yall havent cleaned the crud out of the exhaust pipe that would be a Good thing to check they do get build up in them (not necessarily clogged) that changes the way the engine runs
also if that thing has a spark arrestor screen in the exhaust clean it as well
This is a long shot guys, but I wonder if your problem is air leaks. That would always lead you down the garden path with carburation as it's inconsistent with results.
I note that how the airbox assembly bolts to the seat frame and when you strike it up the carb rattles around like crazy. Given you've already had reed seating problems, couple that with the fact the seals on the ducting from the carb and from the airbox might not be so good anymore, I would be trying to make sure they're as tight as can be.
I really think you still have an ignition issue. That weak spark in the beginning of the video told the story. The slower you turned the engine, the weaker the spark was. That's why it only starts pushing it down the hill. Test, or replace the pickup coil with a good unit, and make sure you can get the proper gap. Then check the spark again. I'm willing to bet that solves a lot of your issue. Idle tuning is impossible without proper ignition. Good luck boys!
I remembered one of bikes that we abused when was younger. Basically same deal. One of the engine halfs was bit tinged . And this was located between crank and gearbox.
the cdi's like to go out to. I run a 38mm pwk non air Stryker on a 380cc trx 250r. The trx 250r cdi's went south and they were 86-89..im sure the older cr500s had the same issue with age. You could always replace the reed cage with a aftermarket one.
I had a 85 cr 500, how I got it to start was to rotate the kick starter forward, it takes more of a stroke to get the speed of the kick up enough to start them. The kick starter should lean forward about 20 degrees so it starts the kick at the top
setting up idel grab yourself a colour plug this will allow you to see the colour of the flame and set it right then got from there with all other carb adjustments plus i think stiffer reeds to make sure they seal better might be an option also i see the statur plate is adjustable so i would also check for timing specs how many degree befor tdc etc
Try adjusting the throttle cable near the twist lever for idle and put a more restrictive fuel filter and run it out of fuel before shutting it off
You guys should really consider the following,
#1 getting one of those start roller things they use for race bikes they use to bump start the old flat track bikes.
#2 installing a front HUB motor so you can just keep bump starting the bike.
Happy belated Birthday John
I think this bike deserves a full build. It's an Icon, 80's CR 500. This is the beast of 2 strokes. Engine gone through, frame sprayed budget wise, new bars, grips, and then just enjoy... we got to keep them alive or they will be forgotten, just like manual cars.
I had one in the late 90’s that ran like a dream. My mate had the exact same year and his was a pig. Came down to the mating surfaces on the cases around the bottom end. Once they were put on the surface plate and honed to sweet. It ran heaps better. Also his liked to run a little leaner on the oil mix in the fuel.