@@youdontneedtoknow7548 It might be a good solution to this at first, but if you over rely on it, then skilled opponents might start baiting it out of you, which might lead to an even bigger punish than if you would've just gotten hit while doing a different ledge option. I think as GIMR kinda alluded to at the end of the video, the best counterplay to this will likely just be waiting on ledge and mixing up when you do your getup option. You can probably even throw in an occasional getup attack in there to keep your opponents on their toes.
@2:50 I want viewers to know the focus is covering all 15 frames to punish all buffered ledge options. This isn't a "window" to execute, this is a range you want to cover all of.
This seemed like nothing until the explanation of how iFrames change on re-grab, and honestly this sounds pretty incredible. Love the moment you show all the options layered around the attack range.
Marth's Dancing Blade and Forward Smash are going to be *super crazy* at ledge. Corrin's Nair will combo into Back Air as well and it will certainly kill. Corrin can also easily ledge trump by using pin to stall right above the ledge. Once the opponent grabs ledge, Corrin can drop into a ledge trump seamlessly. This is extremely useful! Thank you so much for this! I will try to implement this before my next tournaments!
Full charged up smash into immediate uncharged up smash is his best ledge trap but it takes time to set up where you might get punished or you'd be better off edge guarding, it forces an option with the first one and the second catches them after their invincibility runs out.
Ive been doing this since gimr's ledgetrump video ._. Situations rarely play out this cleanly. For one, a lot of characters can hold down while recovering to encourage you away from the ledge with a beefy hitbox. Be careful
I knew about the loss of invulnerability, but it's cool to know you can cover all options with a big meaty hitbox as long as you react/read the timing. Simple but effective, I like it!
With DDD- instead of neutral B, you can fairly easily time a dash attack to hit them either as they regrad with no i-frames or as they pick a get up option. Big bonus, it kills at like 80
doesn't she have a seed that activates when people touch it? Maybe there's a spacing that covers ledge roll, regular getup, ledge attack, and ledge jump forward
I've known about this for years and even tried submitting it as a random fact to PKBeats/PJiggles (forgot which lol). It was never showcased, though. :< I found this out when I looked at a replay of mine and saw that I traded with someone doing their ledge attack, when that is normally not something that is supposed to happen. I then tested it and found all this out. Another thing to note is that if the opponent regrabs the ledge a third time, the invulnerability period decreases even more. And then I think if you somehow regrab a 4th time, every ledge option has no invincibility whatsoever.
Good info to have. Advice to people watching - if you're re-grabbing ledge, don't mindlessly mash an option. Wait to see what the opponent is doing and then react accordingly.
didn't know where exactly the effective area to cover on regrab was but I thought this was somewhat common knowledge either way a good quick and digestible video about this little tech for those who didn't know about this yet
@GimR am I to understand Lucas' dsmash covers all buffered getup options on ledge regrab AND covers ledge-hang a.k.a. doing nothing? Please make my day I'm a Lucas main.
yup! All buffered options AND ledge hang. In the video I was reacting to Joker grabbing the ledge which means the only counter play is letting go of ledge but if they try to hit you they might get snagged by Dsmash
Wow i always wondered why i was dying after ledge regrabs, i remember johnning my friends saying "damn arent i supposed to be invulnerable during that?" Well apparently it wasn't johns, i was right and didnt know it lol
As a Falcon main, rather than going for ledge re-grab traps after ledge-trumping, I love to punish their re-grab attempt with turnaround full-hop knee. If the sweetspot connects (i.e., during their ledge-grab pose), the move is strong that at high percents it usually leaves them in an untechable situation and they get stage rebounded/spiked with high knock-back. However, if they stall their second recovery-and you full-hopped too early-then you can still react to that and delay your knee so that the weak hitbox gimps them and can lead to further edgeguards (i.e., weak knee -> DJ nair/upair)
I feel like the beginning of the video looked like standard Raflow gameplay, but I'm happy to know *why* the ledge feels like an effin prison against him :)
hmmmm, trying to think of setups for my chars, not much comes to mind for yoshi, but I think that trump -> bair -> hydrant/dair -> fsmash/dsmash might work for pacman, this seems a lot more instantly applicable than yesterday for someone of my skill level,
Does this work with more niche ledge recovery options like, dropping from ledge -> jump, drop from ledge -> wall jump, drop from ledge -> jump -> projectile? I'm interested if some characters may have different mix ups for recovery.
You definitely will not be able to cover any drops from the ledge in the same window you’re trying to cover the options. But if they drop you now have a different situation which is still advantageous to you
This was really interesting. The only real counterplay i can think of to this is drop down, wait for attack to finish, then get back to ledge and try to get up while the person on stage is recovering. This won't work against rapid jabs, or low recovery attacks. Also, you'd be giving up the last bit of space you have. On the other hand, a small number of moves, like quick attack, might still be able to get around options that could wall normal characters, but the pool of characters that can do this is so small that you could lab options your main has specifically for those edge cases.
It's more or less forcing the opponent into worse ledge options via trumping, all of which can be more easily covered via a singular lingering hitbox/multihits, excluding staying on ledge (unless said hitbox also hits ledge, like Lucas d-smash) Edit: Damn i type slow, 2 other people replied first lmao
Not just punishable, but punish that covers *every* buffered option. For Lucas, it's just every option period and you're dead if you get ledge-trumped.
Thanks for covering this! Really useful knowledge for getting an advantage during a ledge trap. I knew regrab options had less invuln but I didn't know the details. Knowing when you can stuff ledge attack is great, and I didn't know that normal ledge getup got FIVE TIMES worse
@@GimR you only talked about ledge hang, you didn't say anything about ledge drop aerial at any point as far as I could tell. But maybe I just missed it.
@@bakedbuninvasion Maybe I mispoke, but I thought I talked about how the next layer is people not buffering a ledge option and how it puts them at risk
I rewatched it and ya, you didn't really bring up ledge drop aerial. To be fair, while ledgedrop aerial was huge year one, if you opponent saw you trying to reversal out off the ledge it usually equaled death so it fell out of vouge because the risk reward was not great because combo-ing off it didn't work very well, and sharking below the ledge only worked on the most unsuspecting opponents even with the best sharking tools (vine whip, seph up air, ridely up air, ect) and at low percent didn't knock the opponent far enough away to negate ledge pressure by the time you where able to get back to the ledge and get up from it. And some ledge coverage options still invalidate ledgedrop like Lucas down smash. Still an informative video, learned that get up attack has a gap in s on regrab, I just assumed everyone was doing normal get up when I put a hitbox on the ledge for a regrab lol.
![[SSBU] Jumping is Overpowered](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BmcpWL4FEp8/mqdefault.jpg)
See ya tomorrow for Day 3! You can get my merch here: spif.space/gimr
We boutta get out of the low tiers with this one!
🤣
You forgot the emojies
Not Donkey kong he will never be viable
But what about get up attack?
@@youdontneedtoknow7548 It might be a good solution to this at first, but if you over rely on it, then skilled opponents might start baiting it out of you, which might lead to an even bigger punish than if you would've just gotten hit while doing a different ledge option.
I think as GIMR kinda alluded to at the end of the video, the best counterplay to this will likely just be waiting on ledge and mixing up when you do your getup option. You can probably even throw in an occasional getup attack in there to keep your opponents on their toes.
@2:50 I want viewers to know the focus is covering all 15 frames to punish all buffered ledge options. This isn't a "window" to execute, this is a range you want to cover all of.
ahh good point, that would have been a better word to use!
Happy to help, thanks for the content and resources
This seemed like nothing until the explanation of how iFrames change on re-grab, and honestly this sounds pretty incredible. Love the moment you show all the options layered around the attack range.
I can't believe they nerfed get up attack......
I like that this one is much simpler than yesterday. This whole time I could have sworn regrab ledge attack was fully invincible
*intangible
Marth's Dancing Blade and Forward Smash are going to be *super crazy* at ledge. Corrin's Nair will combo into Back Air as well and it will certainly kill. Corrin can also easily ledge trump by using pin to stall right above the ledge. Once the opponent grabs ledge, Corrin can drop into a ledge trump seamlessly. This is extremely useful!
Thank you so much for this! I will try to implement this before my next tournaments!
Useful to know. Thanks!
I love that snake’s ledge trap is up-smash into up-smash
Full charged up smash into immediate uncharged up smash is his best ledge trap but it takes time to set up where you might get punished or you'd be better off edge guarding, it forces an option with the first one and the second catches them after their invincibility runs out.
@@ryman3084I know its busted, as a snake main if I am playing with my brothers I will solely spam fair and up-smash when they are recovering
Always has been lmao
@@AveRageAweLika trying to combo the mortar into his fair spike?
Junior likewise is side smash into side smash if I'm seeing correctly lmfao
Ive been doing this since gimr's ledgetrump video ._.
Situations rarely play out this cleanly. For one, a lot of characters can hold down while recovering to encourage you away from the ledge with a beefy hitbox. Be careful
🎯🎯🎯 can't believe I didn't think of this as a Link main because turn around up B at ledge.
@@s3eriousbl9ck26I was just thinking of this myself.
Most characters can be spaced around, don't put your face right next to the ledge and you should be good 98% of the time I would think
@Shmicah1235 well the idea of this tech is to be trumping them in the first place, so.
I knew about the loss of invulnerability, but it's cool to know you can cover all options with a big meaty hitbox as long as you react/read the timing. Simple but effective, I like it!
Donkey Kong’s buffs grew three sizes that day
DK ♡
DK ❤
DK
I'm glad more people will know about this now.
With DDD- instead of neutral B, you can fairly easily time a dash attack to hit them either as they regrad with no i-frames or as they pick a get up option. Big bonus, it kills at like 80
That move catches me sleeping every now and then, it’s so strong
That's actually terrifying to consider
Dedede dash attack has been my main ledge kill option for 2-frames or otherwise since the game came out.
Put Lucas on the thumbnail of every video in the series please and thank you
Really good campaign of advertisement.
"insert a character name here" mains have known about this thing for a while... ;) ;)
Charizard just got ridiculously better. So happy to see that we can flamethrower ledge re grab trap with d tilt for easy nair edgeguard 😂🎉
:O
ill just charge a hitbox like dsmash onto ledge or spike it. Idk whats the point of that
I’m a proud member of the LRGTQ+ community
I am probably going to charge Dsmash with Rosa
Might as well just call it 10 days of Lucas buffs :p
Joker's "WHAT?!" in the beginning sequence really describes what's happening here XD
Ledge Grab-Back Traps (LGBT)
Day 1 of hoping that Isabelle gets something useful on TechMas
Villager please 🥲🥲🥲
pretty sure this would be usable for an easy umbrella punish on ledge getup
Technically she did, twice already.
I hope she gets nothing because she is annoying and a wasted slot
doesn't she have a seed that activates when people touch it? Maybe there's a spacing that covers ledge roll, regular getup, ledge attack, and ledge jump forward
I love this trailer so much
I've known about this for years and even tried submitting it as a random fact to PKBeats/PJiggles (forgot which lol). It was never showcased, though. :<
I found this out when I looked at a replay of mine and saw that I traded with someone doing their ledge attack, when that is normally not something that is supposed to happen. I then tested it and found all this out.
Another thing to note is that if the opponent regrabs the ledge a third time, the invulnerability period decreases even more. And then I think if you somehow regrab a 4th time, every ledge option has no invincibility whatsoever.
Good info to have. Advice to people watching - if you're re-grabbing ledge, don't mindlessly mash an option. Wait to see what the opponent is doing and then react accordingly.
Wouldn’t really call this tech it’s just covering ledge regrab options. But the complexity of it broken down is nice.
Man, couldn't you just infinitely bait out ledge trumps, punish, repeat?
Finally. A tech that I can use.
In January GIMR mains Lucas and starts winning all the majors with tech he labbed...
I like these things because they push the META forward but also hate them because they don't apply to the characters I play.
Yoo I do this sometimes can’t believe it’s not used more (I think when they jump you can actually spike them if you time it right Ive done it before)
If you miss the dair on a regrab with ROB what you can instead do is unplug your controller and shake your opponent's hand.
If I'm Dedede, I'm just gonna go all in with the 13 frame dash attack the kills krool at 40 if I sweet spot.
I was sitting here thinking “wait the only ledgetrap option I ever use is bowser jr f smash” and then they showed a clip of bowser jr f smashing twice
At 5:58, Gimr's right hand flicks you off.
This is cool until a steve player refreshes their ledge invul with blocks 🗿
This explains why getup attack gets stuffed so often
And just like that, i quick attacked past it entirely. Pichu busted.
Is it possible to do LSM for punishing ledge regrabs?
Ngl this is kinda obvious but if more people start doing it I guess that’s fine
I’m interested to see if this will make tether grabs even better because of the fact that they can wait below ledge
so glad i play sonic he can use spring instead of ledge jump and mix up even more options while in the air
i would love if one of ur merch shirts said “the gimz always winz”
Thid is great and all but if you simply get up attack it is over. 😎
Proud member of the LRGT community
Thank you Mr. Gimr for this awesome tech
This with charge shots that hit under ledge like Aura Sphere
is cool how you encourage players to improve in check mate scenarios
Ah yes, the Left Right Gran Turismo
i wonder what terry can do. maybe burn knuckle?
Also drop aerial, rising aerial.
But it's pretty useful to know this.
Ganondorf up smash and down smash gonna go hard using this
didn't know where exactly the effective area to cover on regrab was but I thought this was somewhat common knowledge
either way a good quick and digestible video about this little tech for those who didn't know about this yet
Isn't Trans-Siberian Orchestra copyright music???
Mario
Incineroar Side-B bouta cook
Charizard gonna go crazy with this
So this is basically Smash "Oki"?
@GimR am I to understand Lucas' dsmash covers all buffered getup options on ledge regrab AND covers ledge-hang a.k.a. doing nothing? Please make my day I'm a Lucas main.
yup! All buffered options AND ledge hang. In the video I was reacting to Joker grabbing the ledge which means the only counter play is letting go of ledge but if they try to hit you they might get snagged by Dsmash
Bowser fire breath gonna go ham
Fox is so dead after this video
Wow i always wondered why i was dying after ledge regrabs, i remember johnning my friends saying "damn arent i supposed to be invulnerable during that?" Well apparently it wasn't johns, i was right and didnt know it lol
Back to the lab again 😄
As a Falcon main, rather than going for ledge re-grab traps after ledge-trumping, I love to punish their re-grab attempt with turnaround full-hop knee. If the sweetspot connects (i.e., during their ledge-grab pose), the move is strong that at high percents it usually leaves them in an untechable situation and they get stage rebounded/spiked with high knock-back. However, if they stall their second recovery-and you full-hopped too early-then you can still react to that and delay your knee so that the weak hitbox gimps them and can lead to further edgeguards (i.e., weak knee -> DJ nair/upair)
I feel like the beginning of the video looked like standard Raflow gameplay, but I'm happy to know *why* the ledge feels like an effin prison against him :)
*me quedo en el ledge y espero a q termine su animación de ataque para castigarlo* xd
dk high tier soon
day 2 lets go!
first
Last...
@sammyrivera1141 ...now don't you feel silly
@@Tonjit41 "Whoever goes last will go first." Its silly but is works.
hmmmm, trying to think of setups for my chars, not much comes to mind for yoshi, but I think that trump -> bair -> hydrant/dair -> fsmash/dsmash might work for pacman, this seems a lot more instantly applicable than yesterday for someone of my skill level,
Tether cancel though still get ledge normal vulnerability, it cut the invulnerability of ledge options as well as regrab
I Love Gimr
Or I I say, the Ledge Grab Bait Trap (LGBT)
Commentary be like: oh! He did the GAY MOVE!
I've been so mad at why sometimes my shield came out so slow on ledge getup since release and now it makes sense. ty so much for this video
Cant you buffer ledge release? If so, double jump spaced areal is going to win.
How is this a 15 frame window/range if neutral getup alone is for 6 frames vulnerable?
Where did the 15 come from?
15 frame window for your active hitbox to hit all options
@@GimR oh.. now I get it, thanks!
I'd call this more of an underutilized feature than a tech, still sick though
can't wait to get hit by this over and over
I've managed to rest invulnerability through too many things in smash
Oh dedede eating good, maybe?
I'm sure there's someway to make Gordo even more omega stupid, I just didn't have time to lab it out
Yeee
This probably works well with Sora since some of his hitboxes linger.
Thanks for the info although I think this is more a mechanic rather than a tech
I think i have played this game too much that i already knew this 😅
Between this vid and the last one, DK looks like he’s eating good 😋
Does this work with more niche ledge recovery options like, dropping from ledge -> jump, drop from ledge -> wall jump, drop from ledge -> jump -> projectile? I'm interested if some characters may have different mix ups for recovery.
You definitely will not be able to cover any drops from the ledge in the same window you’re trying to cover the options. But if they drop you now have a different situation which is still advantageous to you
For ganon mains(like me) the inputs are just neutral B into neutral B
This is pretty nice to know. Thanks GimR!
We're never given a half Gimr
This was really interesting. The only real counterplay i can think of to this is drop down, wait for attack to finish, then get back to ledge and try to get up while the person on stage is recovering. This won't work against rapid jabs, or low recovery attacks. Also, you'd be giving up the last bit of space you have. On the other hand, a small number of moves, like quick attack, might still be able to get around options that could wall normal characters, but the pool of characters that can do this is so small that you could lab options your main has specifically for those edge cases.
You can also very likely react to their timing, I very often do this with ZSS dsmash
I knew about this already! Haven’t yet incorporated it into my game though, so thanks for the reminder!
lucas and DK are eating good with techmas so for
definitely gonna use this with corrin neutral b
So the new tech is to punish an opponent's ledge option?
No
It's that most characters can punish basically all of them if the opponent buffers on regrab (which is intuitive if you aren't aware of this)
It's more or less forcing the opponent into worse ledge options via trumping, all of which can be more easily covered via a singular lingering hitbox/multihits, excluding staying on ledge (unless said hitbox also hits ledge, like Lucas d-smash)
Edit: Damn i type slow, 2 other people replied first lmao
He's basically reminding us that regrabbed ledge options are punishable. No real tech just saying 😏
Not just punishable, but punish that covers *every* buffered option. For Lucas, it's just every option period and you're dead if you get ledge-trumped.
Very nice and useful tech!
Thanks for covering this! Really useful knowledge for getting an advantage during a ledge trap. I knew regrab options had less invuln but I didn't know the details. Knowing when you can stuff ledge attack is great, and I didn't know that normal ledge getup got FIVE TIMES worse
Lucas really benefitting isn't he?
This doesn't cover ledge drop aerial or just ledge hang for most characters.
I talk about that at the end of the video
@@GimR you only talked about ledge hang, you didn't say anything about ledge drop aerial at any point as far as I could tell.
But maybe I just missed it.
@@bakedbuninvasion Maybe I mispoke, but I thought I talked about how the next layer is people not buffering a ledge option and how it puts them at risk
I rewatched it and ya, you didn't really bring up ledge drop aerial. To be fair, while ledgedrop aerial was huge year one, if you opponent saw you trying to reversal out off the ledge it usually equaled death so it fell out of vouge because the risk reward was not great because combo-ing off it didn't work very well, and sharking below the ledge only worked on the most unsuspecting opponents even with the best sharking tools (vine whip, seph up air, ridely up air, ect) and at low percent didn't knock the opponent far enough away to negate ledge pressure by the time you where able to get back to the ledge and get up from it.
And some ledge coverage options still invalidate ledgedrop like Lucas down smash.
Still an informative video, learned that get up attack has a gap in s on regrab, I just assumed everyone was doing normal get up when I put a hitbox on the ledge for a regrab lol.