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Man your video's are just a joy to watch. The overlap of fsd, the fast forward trough boring pieces, the editing and the commentary all top notch. And then the end score and recap conclusion. Just absolutely lovely. I'm not watching other FSD video's anymore because there are getting to many, but yours is just someting else.
A lot of that is because of how spread out much of our housing is. There are far more miles of road per person here and it's far more expensive to keep up. It's also entirely designed around car use. Add those together and your left with roads crouded with cars on roads that are poorly designed and upkeeped.
@@cannapurp2833 Even today, some youtubers have no intervention drives for the past couple of years, while others are having near death experiences on every drive, even today. Things that make you go, hmmmm….And if you don’t think these car mfgs, like Tesla, manipulate the big youtubers, then you need to think again.
I like watching the visitations. Provides a window into the computers perception of the world. Allowing one to witness it problem solving in real time.
8:45 - It's good to hear that 12.4 is planned to address this. Twice on a drive last week, I had FSD exit the highway via an off-ramp into a dedicated lane on the surface street (not stop required), but the car came to a stop in the lane, then swerved back and forth between the dedicated lane and the adjacent lane for about 100 feet before deciding where it needed to be. In both cases, it seemed to determine the dedicated merge lane was a shoulder, and it tried very hard to merge into the traffic immediately.
I hope it also addresses when I try to override and tell it to get in the slow lane. It often does this wobble and cancels the signal getting back in the lane forcing me to either disengage or try again. I once had it refuse to get over (and wobbled around) 3 times in a row (thankfully nobody behind me). Definitely not safe.
16:22 is what tells me this self driving is actually on the right track for the future. It believes it is on a road with a 5mph speed limit but recognizes that the car in oncoming is going much faster than that and predicts what to do accordingly. A system that insists on its 5mph speed limit would have continued to predict that car to slow down to 5mph and driven very differently, while Tesla FSD just adapted to the situation even though it must have seemed confusing to it. Good job.
Even though am not interested in self driving cars or anything like that, the way you structure your videos and your voice calms me down a lot . Like 20 minutes watching this felt like 2 minutes
You're the only person I watch FSD drives of. Whenever there's an update, I don't even bother watching other channels. I just wait for your video to show up on my feed :)
Wouldn't it be cool if FSD flashed the headlights like a driver would do to acknowledge the actions of another driver? Or activate the four way flasher briefly to thank a motorist in the rear for yielding? This would make driving so much better IMO.
While it would be cool, it would be hard because it's not a common occurrence in training data, and there's almost no heuristic behavior left in FSD anymore.
@@aerostorm_why’s it not common in the training data? I flash my lights to signal to proceed and use hazards to thank probably … idk every ten minutes or so? On a suburban drive. Is that a UK thing?
I thought the right of way would be determined by who has the blockage in front of them. In the case at 13:50 I thought the truck had to yield because the parked car was on their side. At least this is the way it is done in Europe.
Whilst a good idea in theory, in practice drivers will do the worst thing at the worst time, including flashing lights and then proceeding anyway. You can't rely on a light flash to proceed
Dude this is incredible. I've been following this channel for a while, and I'm always so happy when I see a new video. You really help provide a full understanding of where FSD is in the development process-- thank you!
The last time I tried Arlington Circle was on V11. It did not do well. I have not found a roundabout V12 didn’t handle. I always enjoy your Berkeley Hill videos. I spent my early driving years terrorizing those roads. It a trip down memory lane.
1. The dashed white lane line on the cycle lane near the intersection means it's fine for cars to use it to turn right if there isn't a cyclist present, that's why it changes from solid to dashed 2. It wasn't a "no right on red" so it wouldn't have blocked the cycle lane anyway as there was ample opportunity to make the right before the light changed
@@NO3V The US right on left thing is not compatible with pedestrians and cyclist and unsurprisingly that is apparent at the amount of pedestrians and cyclist in the USA. If you make traffic rules actively hostile against some people, those people will avoid being in said segment of the traffic.
Great work you are doing here! I observed version 12.3.5 performing flawlessly in the construction zone. It stopped correctly at the light or stop sign, then proceeded by crossing the double yellow line and going against directional arrows perfectly. It exited by following the queue without any issues. It was never able to do this for years, but suddenly, it can. This is amazing to me, given that it is an entirely new implementation. In version 11, it failed to detect a boulder on a highway. This is another area that we should pay attention to in version 12...
I just drove 1200 miles on version 12.3 in two days. I am mostly impressed, and thankful for this amazing software; however, it brought to light some issues that need to be solved. Some issues are new to version 12, and some have been driving me crazy since 2019. First the new issues: The car hugs the right side of the road to an annoying degree. I wish it would drive in the center of the lane. On auto speed offset, it makes the drive more tolerable because of its lack of accurate speed-limit assessment, but speeds like a criminal! It will go 60 in a 45, and 70 in a 55! Please give us a button in the [chill->assertive] section that lets us specify the actual max speed to follow in the meantime, and more importantly develop a foolproof method for determining the speed limit of the road it's on. The car is so horrible at determining the speed limit, something HAS to be done. My complex has a 5mph speed limit, which it follows, and then goes to a 25mph, and then 50mph road, but the car thinks it's 5mph for many miles! On that note, the car is so bad at determining the speed limit, it is dangerous. On highways in California, Oregon, and Washington (and I assume elsewhere), speed limit signs indicate the main speed limit, and either below it, or on a sign several meters past the actual speed limit sign, it displays the speed limit for trucks, or autos towing trailers, etc. on a 70-80mph road, it sees the second sign, "Trucks 55mph" and thinks that is the speed limit to follow. It simply will not realize it's not a truck or towing vehicle and choose to follow the lowest speed limit. Infuriating having to set the speed every few miles! The car is constantly changing lanes "to follow route" behind trucks in the slow lane because it thinks it needs to follow some route when it is a perfectly contiguous two-lane highway for hundreds of miles that does not change. What is it about its navigation algorithm that is constantly thinking it needs to change to the slow lane when it really just needs to keep going straight indefinitely? And what is with this changing out of rightmost lane BS? It almost never follows a "keep right except to pass" sign. I constantly have to disengage and pull to the right lane. It always blazes on at ridiculous speeds when the speed limit drops when entering towns. It needs to slow down to the posted speed by the time it reaches the lower speed limit sign, not blaze past it at full speed and eventually slow down. The car needs to recognize slow or stopped traffic much farther in advance! It waits until it is coming up on red light stopped traffic and then slams on the brakes abruptly. The system needs to look much farther ahead and slow down at the pace defined by regen until it comes to a smooth stop. The car needs to stop swerving onto the lane markings on the left side of the lane every time it passes a large vehicle, especially when the large vehicle is nowhere near encroaching on my lane. When I pass two trucks on the left that are giving me plenty of room, and nowhere near the lane divider, the car swerves onto the left lane line, then swerves back, then swerves left again, then swerves back. Ridiculous! No thanks. The car needs to use turn signals whenever it slows down in its lane to prepare for a turn or lane change, or is going to change direction, and definitely when it is merging into another lane like when merging onto the freeway. It just doesn't do this! The system is improving, and I am rooting for its inevitable success; however, I AM A MUCH BETTER DRIVER than FSD. I don't change lanes into people's blind spots. I don't slam on the brakes unnecessarily. I don't speed when inappropriate. I avoid debris and potholes, and animals in the road (unlike FSD). I wish Tesla would address the things that have been plaguing FSD constantly for the last 6 years. I am sure some of it will be handled, but we are past due for some of the basics... Like recognizing common traffic signs! You are the best FSD RUclipsr, but rather than stress testing Berkeley, you need to be testing real world scenarios, like how it performs on real world trips and commutes. Somewhere OTHER THAN BERKELEY! This software's absolute CRAP in the Palm Springs area. Thanks. 😎👍🏼 People like you have influence in Tesla. Let's show them where they really need improvement.
Couldn’t agree more. You described all the things that have been driving me crazy with FSD very well. Wake me up once Tesla is ready to take responsibility for the car while FSD is on, otherwise I just don’t care for now
I think some of your complaints are just "personal preference" though - and others would say "oh, I love how it hugs the right side of the road", for example. Sit down with 10 guys and talk driving technique and probably the only thing they will all commonly agree on is that they "are among the top 1% of all drivers out there".
I just got FSD12.3.6 last night and did a quick test drive with minimal traffic. It's definitely improving quickly now. One thing I'll test today, and curious if you've seen it. Since the move to neural net, sometimes vision will confuse street numbers for speed signs. In particular, in IL we have a road, Lake St, that's number IL20 and it's at 50 mph. If the car crosses a 20 sign, max will dip until it sees a 50 mph sign. This happens pretty much between every light haha. Similar to your school zone example, but it's repetitious
I think IL has some blame to take for their sign design. If you look at those signs, they are black and white square with pretty much identical font and the only difference is that top row says in small lettering either "ILLINOIS" or "SPEED LIMIT". If the sign is in limited vision space and you can only make the numbers, it's next to impossible to know which sign it was. Here in Europe, different classes of signs (e.g. street or road number vs speed limit) have totally different style and it's illegal to use wrong style for alternative purpose.
Your FSD videos and commentary are the best. FYI, regarding being “stuck” at 5 mph, I’m pretty sure if you had exited FSD and then re-entered it would have recalculated. Had that work for me on .4
These are by far the best demonstrations of what FSD can do that I have seen and I hope Tesla are chucking you some $$ for the amazing work. Your honest and forward looking critique, and forgiving the car for not yet being perfect, is very refreshing. When watching this I can just start to believe that they will finally get to a point where it is a safer driver than your average person. What would be nice to see is how it deals with unavoidable accidents, i.e. will it take avoiding action with the intent of preserving lives.. maybe that is yet some time away.
“You know what’s actually dangerous”; My Answer-Human drivers 40,000 deaths PER YEAR! Most of those deaths are caused by drunk driving, distracted drivers, joy riding, sleepy impaired drivers. A ‘Computer Driver’ won’t make these mistakes. Tesla’s current FSD program can at least mitigate these causes, even if not perfect, saving tens of thousands of lives every year. Eventually, we can take human error out of the equation… and the occasional death because of FSD will be like the occasional death from Airplanes, there’s always a risk but it’s very small.
The computer driver seems drunk and confused so I think it makes sense we see it doing just as bad if not worse. Most humans aren't going to sit in the middle of the road and lounge there. These ai drivers randomly stop moving in busy streets
As a German I'm baffeled about US raod-rules. In Germany the rule is 50km/h (about 31mph) withing city boundries, and 100km/h (about 62mph) outside. And the general rule is, whenever you change street, or when a new street turns onto your street every pervious speed limit given by signs is canceled and speed is reset to the aforementioned standards. As an addition we also have something called "zones", that set the standard speed differently. Most prominently is the "30-zone" (that is 30km/h, so about 18.5mph), that sets the default speed accordingly. Obviously all raods leading into a zone need to have a sign indicating the beginning of the zone; most often the backs of those signs act as negations ("you're leaving the zone" signs), so one needs to look to 'the wrong side' of the road sometimes to see the sign that tells you that you're out of such a zone again. Why am I mentioning this? Well, because under German rule the car would have been back up to "normal" speed at the latest once it turned onto the next street. Only "downside" for this whole zone thing, is that one needs to keep in mind the zone the car is in even when parking the car and comming back later... So, that's something the car would need to remember or get from geo-data... bt if they want to roll that out here in Europe that's something they'll need to figuere out anyways. I'm impressed, seriously. Just 2 years ago I would not have believed FSD will have a chance making it to Europe. Now I would be surprised if we don't see it here by the end of the 2030s. anyways, thanks for your work
@@patrickspader4062 That's somewaht true. They are the third standart environemnt, besides inside citys and outside citys. Autobahns are comparable to highways. And on autobahns there is no general speedlimit. Though quite a lot of autobahm-kilometers are still limited to 130kph.
I just want to once again comment that I greatly appreciate your content and that you by far and away provide the best, most insightful footage and commentary out of anyone showcasing this technology. Please continue, take care and don't burn out. This is invaluable.
I would like to congratulate you. You are the first person doing any of these videos that I've ever heard mention the term defensive driving. It seems like almost everyone these days that is under 40 years old drives extremely aggressively and don't give a damn about safety. Back in the day when the rest of us learn to drive we were all talked to Dr defensively. That is what makes everything safe on the road. THANK YOU SIR
12.3.4 was a big improvement over v11.x. However there are some basic stuff the car is still bad at like choosing the correct lane to follow the route and getting on that lane in a timely manner. On several occasions it also turn on the street before the one shown on the routing. The speed selection is also weird: sometimes it slows down for no apparent reason and once it has come to a complete stop. There are quite a few issues to work out.
Just saw the part with the 5 mph sign and I have a similar situation, also from a school. The parking lot is 10 mph (which is on navigation data since there are no signs), but when leaving the lot and entering the street (with a correct navigation data speed limit of around 35), the speed limit on the screen still shows 10 and the car doesn’t go over 13. This makes me think that the “auto max” may actually have a max override certain speeds, so even on large roads where the limit is clearly higher, the car still goes quite slowly.
It also "defaults" to 25mph until it sees a sign indicating otherwise which is a huge problem in my local neighborhood which is 40mph. It will turn onto the main street and insist on staying at 25mph for a very long way until the first sign is encountered. Why can't it pull this from the maps data?
@@JohnVanderbeck That makes some sense. Had it repeatedly trying to drive 25 MPH on 55 MPH country roads during my free month trial. Was very frustrating. Sometimes drove past 1, 2, or even 3 speed limit signs and it wouldn't update--would just randomly update later after I'd ended up manually driving for awhile because it freaks out about you forcing it to go 60 in what it incorrectly thinks is a 25. Really baffling behavior that would be super dangerous without supervision to be trying to drive around at under half the speed limit.
I live in Vegas. I’m constantly disengaging because of all the construction. I wish we could pinpoint home because I live on Las Vegas Blvd and FSD wants to park on the street. My parking is under my building via the alley with an assigned parking spot. There’s also a back way to get home and I’m unable to use FSD to use the shortcut way to avoid the traffic. Would be awesome to draw on the map to highlight the roads I want to actually use.
What you actually look like surprised me. Not good or bad, I just pictured a slimmish person who always has a smile on his face. The pleasant sound of your voice and your commentary is why I subscribe to your channel. The bonus is the challenging area we live in but I'm in Mountain View which is easy for FSD.
13:50 - Idk about the US but where I'm from - if one of the lanes is blocked, the person who needs to enter the oncoming lane has to yield. So since the cars are not parked in your lane, the oncoming traffic has to yield whether it's uphill or downhill. The uphill/downhill rule is for roads where only one car fits on the road itself (not because someone parked on the road) and the logic behind it is that it is harder to go up a hill so the person going down has to yield since it is easier for them generally.
Interesting video. Now that Tesla is betting the company on FSD and putting less focus on vehicle manufacturing and supercharging, I'm going to start paying more attention to how FSD is progressing.
I seem to remember there was a court case in California that basically said the requirement for signaling was only to inform cars that would be affected by the lane change. A driver could not be cited, if there are no cars present that would be affected by the lane change. I have the same problem with FSD locking on to a 15 mph speed limit sign from an adjacent parking area. It maintains the 15 mph limit, in spite of being on a 4 lane road with everyone else using the correct 35 mph limit. It makes fsd unusable for that stretch of road.
If so, that's a really stupid ruling. If there is another vehicle around that the driver is not aware of, he or she will not get the information about where the driver plans to go. A typical victim for this would be an MC.
Uphill right of way--I only know that rule from *off roading* where it's elicit, didn't know it applied on road, but also the less capable car (off road) is given the benefit in difficult situations.
Your video and commentary really helped me because the FSD quirks you experienced, I am experiencing too. FSD can only get better, but understanding where its strengths and weaknesses are currently, is very me to use FSD with the appropriate expectations.
Although others may disagree this video gives me confidence that eventually we may get FSD here in the UK! I live in an ancient town about 20 miles of London and our roads are at least as difficult as those shown in the video! (blame the Romans!) Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the high quality content and commentary! I know these Berkeley Hills very well, and seeing you put FSD through its paces here really gives me more confidence into sinking $2K for the permanent upgrade.
I recently purchased a Model Y and have been enjoying the FSD trial. I'm temporarily in the suburbs of Chicago for work and FSD has made the commute much more managable. This morning, it tried finding a spot to park at my work location, but it caught up to a garbage truck in the parking lot and started following them instead 🤣 This evening, it drove completely from work location to where I'm staying without any intervention. (~15 minutes of travel)
I was always taught (in the UK) that when driving you *should* always indicate left/right to warn and inform other road users. So, if you're aware enough that you know for sure nobody is around (such as in the very quiet road and low speed examples shown in this video), then you don't always need to indicate. In our Highway Code rulebook, failure to comply with a rule marked as *"should"* will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted. Those legal requirement rules are explicitly labelled *MUST/MUST NOT* and refer to the exact legislation which creates the offence.
In my most recent FSD software version (12.3.6) I have been running into a serious issue with its driver attention being triggered *when I am paying the most attention to the road* because that is when I am least paying attention to exactly how much force I am applying to the steering wheel. The fact that the force has to be so close to the point where I would be taking over by force means that the driver attention system itself takes too much attention. I have now twice had it disengage for the remainder of a drive, while I was getting ready to take over because it wasn't handling a lane change properly. This just happened today on a freeway exit for going to work where it has to move over a couple of lanes to get into a right turn lane, but where it only gets over far enough quickly enough 50% of the time. This was after it dinged me several times on the freeway for watching what vehicles were doing in front of me instead of watching the touch screen to see if it was complaining about the amount of force I was applying to the steering wheel. If there was a two second grace period between the ding about paying attention and the application of force, then I wouldn't have to pay attention to both the screen *and what is happening in front of me* to avoid being dinged for not paying attention. It is like the only part of "paying attention" that it cares about is paying attention to the freakin screen!
Love how you are going to the Berkley hills! I feel like these are the most similar roads to what you can find in some difficult areas in Europe, and gives us European viewers a glimpse at the potential capabilities of FSD in Europe. Unfortunately, still regulation-blocked, but if it happens one day, FSD will also perform great on the ancient street system of Europe! Thanks for the vid :)
No, there's no exceptions to the rules in the case at 14:00. You should not be yielding to the vehicle going uphill in this particular case since their side of the street is blocked (occluded). So they should be yielding.
Great video, as always! Just some comments on my own experience with FSD...I am not getting as excited for new releases much anymore because they just haven't fixed the stop sign creeping behavior, and to me, that is the biggest issue FSD has right now. It is just way too tentative after the initial stop at a stop sign. At 4 way stops it goes appropriately when it's the cars "turn." I don't know why it's so much different when it's an unprotected stop. The other issue I am having is with Yields...FSD, for me, does not seem to yield for traffic. I have had to take over more than a few times at some yields (with a yield sign) when the car would have side swiped approaching cars from the left....
Stops way too early and aggressively. Creeps too slow, really handles all intersections too slow. I feel this is something not observed by watchers because the videos are usually sped up but in reality the car handles intersections like your Grandma's Grandma on a Sunday morning and I regularly get honked at. Also doesn't handled two-lane roundabouts properly. Doesn't handle intersections where opposing traffic both crosses and goes straight because it ignores direction signlas and just waits for every single car regardless of where it is going. Doesn't slow down anymore when the speed limit drops. Is it a lot better now than a few years ago? Yes. Does it still have a LOT of problems? Also yes.
@@JohnVanderbeck I'm not seeing these issues in videos. But had always worked better in some areas than others. Obviously works best where there a re a lot of Teslas, and the videos also much more likely to come from there. But that's also where the most people need FSD, so it's fine for now.
@@andrasbiro3007 Saying it is needed most where the most YTers are seems really silly logic to me. As for "lots of teslas", I mean there are 5 or 6 that I know of just on my block :) three of my immediate neighbors have them, and frankly they are all over my area. A lot of issues just don't show up in videos because they aren't as visible in that medium, or are hidden (not neccesarily intentionally) byt the fact that most videos are sped up.
Stop sign behavior is annoying, but thanks NHTSA on that one--probably a garbage data set to get the model to stop fully always since only terrible drivers do if there's no other cars/VRUs. The yield behavior you mention definitely matches my experience, had 3 safety critical disengagements in my month trial (including one today) due to it not yielding when merging onto non-freeway roads that have merge lanes where it was going to happily follow the disappearing merge lane right into the car next to me it was supposed to yield to. The yield behavior seemed like a basically 100% failure rate on those places--do roads in California not have merge lanes onto non-freeways? Seems shocking they don't have data and that it seemed like it'd have had no hesitation crashing into cars in those scenarios.
For more serious stress tests: repeat drives in this area 1) in serious rain or 2) at night or 3) in a rainy night or 4) with snow. The rain/snow will limit visibility (posing problems to a camera-prone way to implement FSD), and will be more challenging to traction control. It will also cause everyone else to behave less predictable.
It's remarkable how much better FSD works in California between yours and Whole Mars videos compared to my free month trial in Minnesota. I reckon over my month and 750 or whatever miles, I had at least 75 disengagements, 10 or more safety critical (including several where it was trying to crash into other cars), and hundreds of interventions (often speed limits or it doing dumb lane selection on highways). It's very impressive, but definitely makes me question how good their AI is to see how much it fumbles for me on completely basic driving compared to places where it has a lot more data.
I live in a more rural area,and i just can not use it yet. There are often rocks that jut out into the road, roads with no guardrail, and it is just frankly unsafe. Do you have any opportunity to try it on roads like that near you? I understand those are much much harder, but the issues it approaches still feel dangerous. If you need stress testing, I'd recommend going more scenic. Separately, happy to help show some of the scenarios we have in these areas which frequently cause dangerous / bad behavior basically all the time. The theme though is definitely "country roads". Let me know
I live in an area rife with 2 lane roundabouts that it screws up 90% of the time so pretty much every drive ends in disengagements. Depressing since Elon indicated like a year ago that there was a planned update all about roundabouts.
Very interesting, it’s definitely improved. And thank you for enduring the pain of being stuck at 8mph for us, I know I would be dying inside in that situation 😭
V12 has been amazing. The speed issue is my biggest gripe as it happens to me many times on my drives. Can override with the accelerator if need to when it's incorrect and the car needs to be sped up but can't use FSD at all when it's incorrect in the other direction - it thinks the speed limit is faster than it really is. Happens occasionally entering towns and have to turn off FSD and drive myself until it finally figures out the correct speed. Yesterday it thought the speed limit in the parking lot at the mall was 100 kph! Didn't engage to see what would happen:-)
I love your road selection. Too many FSD tests are done in streets with a chess like layout. Not saying FSD performance there does not matter, but it is not representative for most of the world. As a european, your drives look a bit like my neighbourhood. So your videos are the best showcase of possible european FSD performance, that I am aware of. Thank your very much!
Great to see your videos, including explanations and points of view! Are u planning to try „bad weather“ conditions like rain, snow, at night or similar?
8:10 actually, as I understand the driving rules (at least in PA), you are supposed to stop before the crosswalk at a stop sign. no one does it IRL, but my brother didn't pass his first driver's license test because he pulled through a crosswalk at a stop sign. my guess is that the behavior shown there is a result of this rule being (mis?)applied. 23:30 I'm not sure if the "available space" being a bike lane is relevant to why it didn't use the space? this version seems to be much more cautious about pedestrians / crosswalks, so maybe that extends to bike lanes also? idk. Excellent video, keep it up!
Good to see you also having the speed limit problems. Except when I've had it I've occasionally driven past 1, 2, or even 3 speed limit signs and it didn't update from them--it'd just randomly update later with no speed limit sign. I've had it repeatedly try going 25 MPH on 55 MPH rural roads where there was definitely no 25 MPH sign ever--it also really freaks out when you force it to go 60 in what it thinks (incorrectly) is a 25. Finished my free trial today, but honestly whatever is up with speed limits was the most frustrating part, constantly ruining being able to test and having to drive manually for sometimes miles before it fixed. Standard autopilot doesn't have issues reading speed limit signs.
Same. I live on a 45 mph mountain road, but we have a construction zone with a 25 mph zone. Despite a “road work ends” sign, the car continues along happily at 20 below the (45mph) speed limit until I take control.
Very impressive and on some very challenging roads. It would also be good to see how it deals with the same route on the average rainy day, and then the ultimate challenge in the snow. On paper the lack of substantial camera redundancy would seem to be an issue. As far as I am aware the system still doesn't do reverse so drive round those streets long enough and there will be instances when two cars meet and one will have to reverse.
I love watching your videos and it's always so interesting to see what it does with these insane Cali streets. That 5MPH sign was insane as well as that pedestrian behind the statue. No way I would've seen that either. They'll definitely need to teach it to avoid the red (and yellow here in Oregon) lines on the curb. Great point about FSD using the horn. It'd be nice if it could at least do a little courtesy honk--sure, we could do the honking, but FSD would know to honk before we do. Exciting news for me: I FINALLY OWN A TESLA and it has FSD! Picked up a '19 M3LR with a bit over 30k miles on it and I've already put over 1k miles on it with FSD. I was also really shocked with the software updates. I saw a few days ago about how 12.3.6 was going to add the parking vision for us old USS cars and I was excited to see an update two days ago and....it was 12.3.4. I was so bummed but I was excited to see if it had better behavior...but then the next day (yesterday), I had a surprise update and it was 12.3.6! O.O I think I'm going to make an excuse to go shopping to try it out. (I also want to see how it handles a few spots around here with 12.3.6. I have a turn it's too hesitant on and does 2 or 3 creeps out until it finally goes.) I wish I had your snapshot button but I imagine the feedback when I disengage is probably good enough (though sometimes I forget to hit record). I often have it having issues with merging and with getting over to the slow lane when passing lanes open up.
Here’s my view about robotaxis. I’m sure there’ll be a use for them in certain situations. But I just can’t imagine a future where we don’t own a car and just summon one instead. Like… we keep stuff in our cars (sunglasses, stuff in the trunk, toys for children, stroller, chewing gum… etc). Just seems really impractical if we don’t own a car.
Thanks for these great videos! Which V12 are you running in this video? There are several (many?) FSD RUclips videos covering FSD and doing the same sort of drives and commenting about how it seems better in different situations, but nobody seems to identify "global" quirks and measure how they have improved. For example: - Has it gotten better at reducing the wait at 4-way stops? - Has it gotten better at not getting scary close to parked cars and guard rails? - Has the delay in changing direction when self parking been reduced? - How long between being warned to tug the wheel and is it different depending on the situation? - Does the in-car camera watching me mean I don't have to tug as often? - I can FSD at up to 85mph, but if I accelerate, like getting past a truck on the freeway, and get just past 85, I get the big red steering wheel display, and can't use FSD for the rest of the trip. I want to know when they do something different, like warn me, so I don't have exit the freeway, stop and walk away from the car. - FSD currently slows way down before taking an offramp, and bums out the people behind me. Has it gotten better? - Not FSD, but Superchargers cut way back on rate of charge as the battery fills up. What is the algorithm and has it improved. If at the beginning of the video, metrics like this were discussed, then the videos would be more informative and would be different from the other channels. Just an idea. Thanks
I think at 15:33 it hesitates to cross the solid line . I call that the dance . It does it for me in a particular spot by my home all the time. It's .. like I know I have to get to that side but I'm not supposed to cross the solid line . If the solid line wasn't their it would have done just fine .
In your summary it would be great to get a list of regressions as well as the improvements you notice. Not things we already know that need work, regressions.
it's impressive and should be L5 within 10 years I hope. If Tesla is not bankrupt. The reason it takes long is because it needs to almost never make any mistakes. That means it needs to go from 50000 mistakes per million miles to like 100 per million miles. So 500x less mistakes. That starts to become very very very difficult toward the long tail end.
And this is only daylight driving with no rain / snow in an area that is covered by the training set. I think it made great process with recent updates, but long way to go.
I had FSD for over 5 years now, and yeah I can see it’s evolving, but I’m at a point now where I just don’t care unless Tesla takes responsibility while the car is driven under FSD and I don’t have to supervise anymore. Yesterday FSD was trying to plow through a lane closure (didn’t see any of the hundreds of cones and signs leading up to it), three raindrops and it slows down to embarrassingly slow speed du to weather, and lane planning is still - well let’s say it’s bad. It’s very hesitant in some situations, and way too confident in others. Still doesn’t see any of the speed bumps in my hood. Today a power line dropped on the road right in front of me, snaking around, and obviously I had to intervene for that problem. I hate to admit it, but I’m losing hope 😢
I have to say my car never slows down when the speed limit drops anymore. It did in v11 but never does in v12. I have one area I go through where it drops from 40 to 30 for a couple blocks then back up to 40. Prloblem is that 30 zone is a government complex and a poilice station. You don't want to eb speeding through there :D
I've noticed the same behavior. When it hits a lower speed limit it's as if the car decides to coast until reaching the new speed limit instead of decelerating.
Love your vids! Keep up the great work. I have a model 3 here in Australia, but we don't have anywhere near the features you guys have over there in regards to FSD, which makes the exorbitant cost not worth it at all here.
@4:10 you applaud the computer for not coming to a complete stop when it was supposed to, but then use this as a diss when the human drivers do the same thing at the right on red @4:40. If anything, a rolling stop on that red is should be more permissible than the rolled stop in the parking lot, since @4:40 the lane running opposite to the direction you want to turn into has an advanced green, preventing any cars from turning or running into you. The only thing you'd have to keep an eye out for is pedestrians crossing, which it did. Parking lots are far more unpredictable in this comparison. edit: spelling
Yeah I see your point. I think a slowing to 1mph before proceeding is very different than rolling through at 5-10mph without even touching the brakes though
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Man your video's are just a joy to watch. The overlap of fsd, the fast forward trough boring pieces, the editing and the commentary all top notch. And then the end score and recap conclusion. Just absolutely lovely. I'm not watching other FSD video's anymore because there are getting to many, but yours is just someting else.
Thank you for the kind words!
The MKBHD of FSD! 😃
The best FAD video man!
Your videos and commentary have been invaluable to my understanding of FSD and its progress. Thank you. Please keep them coming.
Thank you so much, truly appreciate it! Will do :]
A lot of that is because of how spread out much of our housing is. There are far more miles of road per person here and it's far more expensive to keep up. It's also entirely designed around car use. Add those together and your left with roads crouded with cars on roads that are poorly designed and upkeeped.
As a European, I'm kind of shocked by the terrible street design compared to Germany. No wonder the US ranks so high in car accidents.
Yep I get comments like this a lot lol
Make sure to go watch Chuck’s Unprotected Left for peak American road design!
@@AIDRIVR for this reason, im also curious how fsd would perform when it gets ready to drive in europe compared to the US
@@lukesepter3250 That might take a while, for now, Teslas have still trouble to even correctly read speed limits in Europe ;-)
In America, we have to best at everything.
It would be quote interesting to have you visit the EU (if you can get it to work) just to just see how it performs as-is.
Absolutely brilliant editing brother
Appreciate it!
You mean he is editing out FSD failures?
Bruh... do you see him cut the video at all after he gets to the hills??? What are you on about?@@JetFire9
@JetFire9 I'd believe that if you were commenting this four years ago, but not today.
@@cannapurp2833 Even today, some youtubers have no intervention drives for the past couple of years, while others are having near death experiences on every drive, even today. Things that make you go, hmmmm….And if you don’t think these car mfgs, like Tesla, manipulate the big youtubers, then you need to think again.
Lol the visualization actually saw the bird and it displayed it as a dog very briefly!
Must have been trained on Elden Ring gameplay.
Yep plus the Occupancy Network "blob" under it as well!
At 25:10 if you want to check it out.
I like watching the visitations. Provides a window into the computers perception of the world. Allowing one to witness it problem solving in real time.
They have visualizations for dogs but not yield signs?
8:45 - It's good to hear that 12.4 is planned to address this. Twice on a drive last week, I had FSD exit the highway via an off-ramp into a dedicated lane on the surface street (not stop required), but the car came to a stop in the lane, then swerved back and forth between the dedicated lane and the adjacent lane for about 100 feet before deciding where it needed to be. In both cases, it seemed to determine the dedicated merge lane was a shoulder, and it tried very hard to merge into the traffic immediately.
I hope it also addresses when I try to override and tell it to get in the slow lane. It often does this wobble and cancels the signal getting back in the lane forcing me to either disengage or try again. I once had it refuse to get over (and wobbled around) 3 times in a row (thankfully nobody behind me). Definitely not safe.
Love the graphics. Best ever!! Thanks for the great videos as always!!
Yes great special effects, those cars looked so real!
27 minutes of FSD content? YAY!
I can confidently like your videos BEFORE watching 👍 excited for this one
Every Video is always a kicker!
i cant
@@pooljunki1 Chin up! If you really put your mind to it, you can get better at it. Believe in the me that believes in you.
16:22 is what tells me this self driving is actually on the right track for the future. It believes it is on a road with a 5mph speed limit but recognizes that the car in oncoming is going much faster than that and predicts what to do accordingly. A system that insists on its 5mph speed limit would have continued to predict that car to slow down to 5mph and driven very differently, while Tesla FSD just adapted to the situation even though it must have seemed confusing to it. Good job.
Even though am not interested in self driving cars or anything like that, the way you structure your videos and your voice calms me down a lot .
Like 20 minutes watching this felt like 2 minutes
Thank you, I really appreciate the kind words :]
You're the only person I watch FSD drives of. Whenever there's an update, I don't even bother watching other channels. I just wait for your video to show up on my feed :)
Thank you, there's a lot of great FSD channels out there though!
12.3.6 downloading now.. cant wait to test it out! Great vid bro.
Wouldn't it be cool if FSD flashed the headlights like a driver would do to acknowledge the actions of another driver? Or activate the four way flasher briefly to thank a motorist in the rear for yielding? This would make driving so much better IMO.
While it would be cool, it would be hard because it's not a common occurrence in training data, and there's almost no heuristic behavior left in FSD anymore.
@@aerostorm_why’s it not common in the training data? I flash my lights to signal to proceed and use hazards to thank probably … idk every ten minutes or so? On a suburban drive. Is that a UK thing?
I thought the right of way would be determined by who has the blockage in front of them. In the case at 13:50 I thought the truck had to yield because the parked car was on their side. At least this is the way it is done in Europe.
Whilst a good idea in theory, in practice drivers will do the worst thing at the worst time, including flashing lights and then proceeding anyway. You can't rely on a light flash to proceed
@@danlucraftI've only ever been hazard flashed once, by a truck driver. Headlight flashes are much more common though
Dude this is incredible. I've been following this channel for a while, and I'm always so happy when I see a new video. You really help provide a full understanding of where FSD is in the development process-- thank you!
The last time I tried Arlington Circle was on V11. It did not do well. I have not found a roundabout V12 didn’t handle. I always enjoy your Berkeley Hill videos. I spent my early driving years terrorizing those roads. It a trip down memory lane.
Great video. I can't wait to hear your comments on v12.4 and 12.5.
23:40 actually seems fine to me. Wouldn't wanna block the cycle lane before the light turns green, would you? 😉
1. The dashed white lane line on the cycle lane near the intersection means it's fine for cars to use it to turn right if there isn't a cyclist present, that's why it changes from solid to dashed
2. It wasn't a "no right on red" so it wouldn't have blocked the cycle lane anyway as there was ample opportunity to make the right before the light changed
@@tHebUm18 Ah. Right. Forgot about the US right on red thing. (Without it I wouldn't accept point 1.)
Thx
@@NO3V The US right on left thing is not compatible with pedestrians and cyclist and unsurprisingly that is apparent at the amount of pedestrians and cyclist in the USA. If you make traffic rules actively hostile against some people, those people will avoid being in said segment of the traffic.
Great work you are doing here! I observed version 12.3.5 performing flawlessly in the construction zone. It stopped correctly at the light or stop sign, then proceeded by crossing the double yellow line and going against directional arrows perfectly. It exited by following the queue without any issues. It was never able to do this for years, but suddenly, it can. This is amazing to me, given that it is an entirely new implementation. In version 11, it failed to detect a boulder on a highway. This is another area that we should pay attention to in version 12...
I just drove 1200 miles on version 12.3 in two days.
I am mostly impressed, and thankful for this amazing software; however, it brought to light some issues that need to be solved. Some issues are new to version 12, and some have been driving me crazy since 2019.
First the new issues:
The car hugs the right side of the road to an annoying degree. I wish it would drive in the center of the lane.
On auto speed offset, it makes the drive more tolerable because of its lack of accurate speed-limit assessment, but speeds like a criminal! It will go 60 in a 45, and 70 in a 55! Please give us a button in the [chill->assertive] section that lets us specify the actual max speed to follow in the meantime, and more importantly develop a foolproof method for determining the speed limit of the road it's on. The car is so horrible at determining the speed limit, something HAS to be done. My complex has a 5mph speed limit, which it follows, and then goes to a 25mph, and then 50mph road, but the car thinks it's 5mph for many miles!
On that note, the car is so bad at determining the speed limit, it is dangerous. On highways in California, Oregon, and Washington (and I assume elsewhere), speed limit signs indicate the main speed limit, and either below it, or on a sign several meters past the actual speed limit sign, it displays the speed limit for trucks, or autos towing trailers, etc. on a 70-80mph road, it sees the second sign, "Trucks 55mph" and thinks that is the speed limit to follow. It simply will not realize it's not a truck or towing vehicle and choose to follow the lowest speed limit. Infuriating having to set the speed every few miles!
The car is constantly changing lanes "to follow route" behind trucks in the slow lane because it thinks it needs to follow some route when it is a perfectly contiguous two-lane highway for hundreds of miles that does not change. What is it about its navigation algorithm that is constantly thinking it needs to change to the slow lane when it really just needs to keep going straight indefinitely? And what is with this changing out of rightmost lane BS?
It almost never follows a "keep right except to pass" sign. I constantly have to disengage and pull to the right lane.
It always blazes on at ridiculous speeds when the speed limit drops when entering towns. It needs to slow down to the posted speed by the time it reaches the lower speed limit sign, not blaze past it at full speed and eventually slow down.
The car needs to recognize slow or stopped traffic much farther in advance! It waits until it is coming up on red light stopped traffic and then slams on the brakes abruptly. The system needs to look much farther ahead and slow down at the pace defined by regen until it comes to a smooth stop.
The car needs to stop swerving onto the lane markings on the left side of the lane every time it passes a large vehicle, especially when the large vehicle is nowhere near encroaching on my lane. When I pass two trucks on the left that are giving me plenty of room, and nowhere near the lane divider, the car swerves onto the left lane line, then swerves back, then swerves left again, then swerves back. Ridiculous! No thanks.
The car needs to use turn signals whenever it slows down in its lane to prepare for a turn or lane change, or is going to change direction, and definitely when it is merging into another lane like when merging onto the freeway. It just doesn't do this!
The system is improving, and I am rooting for its inevitable success; however, I AM A MUCH BETTER DRIVER than FSD. I don't change lanes into people's blind spots. I don't slam on the brakes unnecessarily. I don't speed when inappropriate. I avoid debris and potholes, and animals in the road (unlike FSD). I wish Tesla would address the things that have been plaguing FSD constantly for the last 6 years.
I am sure some of it will be handled, but we are past due for some of the basics... Like recognizing common traffic signs!
You are the best FSD RUclipsr, but rather than stress testing Berkeley, you need to be testing real world scenarios, like how it performs on real world trips and commutes. Somewhere OTHER THAN BERKELEY! This software's absolute CRAP in the Palm Springs area.
Thanks. 😎👍🏼
People like you have influence in Tesla. Let's show them where they really need improvement.
Couldn’t agree more. You described all the things that have been driving me crazy with FSD very well. Wake me up once Tesla is ready to take responsibility for the car while FSD is on, otherwise I just don’t care for now
The tendency to hug curbs is driving me nuts.
I think some of your complaints are just "personal preference" though - and others would say "oh, I love how it hugs the right side of the road", for example. Sit down with 10 guys and talk driving technique and probably the only thing they will all commonly agree on is that they "are among the top 1% of all drivers out there".
I just got FSD12.3.6 last night and did a quick test drive with minimal traffic. It's definitely improving quickly now. One thing I'll test today, and curious if you've seen it. Since the move to neural net, sometimes vision will confuse street numbers for speed signs. In particular, in IL we have a road, Lake St, that's number IL20 and it's at 50 mph. If the car crosses a 20 sign, max will dip until it sees a 50 mph sign. This happens pretty much between every light haha. Similar to your school zone example, but it's repetitious
I think IL has some blame to take for their sign design. If you look at those signs, they are black and white square with pretty much identical font and the only difference is that top row says in small lettering either "ILLINOIS" or "SPEED LIMIT". If the sign is in limited vision space and you can only make the numbers, it's next to impossible to know which sign it was. Here in Europe, different classes of signs (e.g. street or road number vs speed limit) have totally different style and it's illegal to use wrong style for alternative purpose.
Your FSD videos and commentary are the best. FYI, regarding being “stuck” at 5 mph, I’m pretty sure if you had exited FSD and then re-entered it would have recalculated. Had that work for me on .4
Very excited to see more FSD content from you!
I appreciate the amount of work that goes into your videos: the progress in capability of the car is amazing and you capture it.
These are by far the best demonstrations of what FSD can do that I have seen and I hope Tesla are chucking you some $$ for the amazing work. Your honest and forward looking critique, and forgiving the car for not yet being perfect, is very refreshing. When watching this I can just start to believe that they will finally get to a point where it is a safer driver than your average person. What would be nice to see is how it deals with unavoidable accidents, i.e. will it take avoiding action with the intent of preserving lives.. maybe that is yet some time away.
“You know what’s actually dangerous”; My Answer-Human drivers 40,000 deaths PER YEAR!
Most of those deaths are caused by drunk driving, distracted drivers, joy riding, sleepy impaired drivers. A ‘Computer Driver’ won’t make these mistakes. Tesla’s current FSD program can at least mitigate these causes, even if not perfect, saving tens of thousands of lives every year. Eventually, we can take human error out of the equation… and the occasional death because of FSD will be like the occasional death from Airplanes, there’s always a risk but it’s very small.
But NHTSA would rather people turn off Autopilot/FSD to text and drive or look away
The computer driver seems drunk and confused so I think it makes sense we see it doing just as bad if not worse. Most humans aren't going to sit in the middle of the road and lounge there. These ai drivers randomly stop moving in busy streets
As a German I'm baffeled about US raod-rules.
In Germany the rule is 50km/h (about 31mph) withing city boundries, and 100km/h (about 62mph) outside. And the general rule is, whenever you change street, or when a new street turns onto your street every pervious speed limit given by signs is canceled and speed is reset to the aforementioned standards. As an addition we also have something called "zones", that set the standard speed differently. Most prominently is the "30-zone" (that is 30km/h, so about 18.5mph), that sets the default speed accordingly. Obviously all raods leading into a zone need to have a sign indicating the beginning of the zone; most often the backs of those signs act as negations ("you're leaving the zone" signs), so one needs to look to 'the wrong side' of the road sometimes to see the sign that tells you that you're out of such a zone again.
Why am I mentioning this?
Well, because under German rule the car would have been back up to "normal" speed at the latest once it turned onto the next street.
Only "downside" for this whole zone thing, is that one needs to keep in mind the zone the car is in even when parking the car and comming back later... So, that's something the car would need to remember or get from geo-data... bt if they want to roll that out here in Europe that's something they'll need to figuere out anyways.
I'm impressed, seriously. Just 2 years ago I would not have believed FSD will have a chance making it to Europe. Now I would be surprised if we don't see it here by the end of the 2030s.
anyways, thanks for your work
I don't really agree. You may just be observing a software bug.
I thought autobahns had no speed limits?
@@patrickspader4062 That's somewaht true. They are the third standart environemnt, besides inside citys and outside citys. Autobahns are comparable to highways. And on autobahns there is no general speedlimit. Though quite a lot of autobahm-kilometers are still limited to 130kph.
What the heck is kpm??
Do you mean kmph??
Then the conversations are wrong!
50kmph -> 31mph
50 km/h is 30 mph, and 100km/h is 62mph.
0:05 that's a street in the United States of America?
Holy shit that looks worse than some of the shittiest roads in the Dominican Republic
I just want to once again comment that I greatly appreciate your content and that you by far and away provide the best, most insightful footage and commentary out of anyone showcasing this technology.
Please continue, take care and don't burn out. This is invaluable.
I would like to congratulate you. You are the first person doing any of these videos that I've ever heard mention the term defensive driving.
It seems like almost everyone these days that is under 40 years old drives extremely aggressively and don't give a damn about safety. Back in the day when the rest of us learn to drive we were all talked to Dr defensively. That is what makes everything safe on the road.
THANK YOU SIR
12.3.4 was a big improvement over v11.x. However there are some basic stuff the car is still bad at like choosing the correct lane to follow the route and getting on that lane in a timely manner. On several occasions it also turn on the street before the one shown on the routing. The speed selection is also weird: sometimes it slows down for no apparent reason and once it has come to a complete stop. There are quite a few issues to work out.
Just saw the part with the 5 mph sign and I have a similar situation, also from a school. The parking lot is 10 mph (which is on navigation data since there are no signs), but when leaving the lot and entering the street (with a correct navigation data speed limit of around 35), the speed limit on the screen still shows 10 and the car doesn’t go over 13. This makes me think that the “auto max” may actually have a max override certain speeds, so even on large roads where the limit is clearly higher, the car still goes quite slowly.
It also "defaults" to 25mph until it sees a sign indicating otherwise which is a huge problem in my local neighborhood which is 40mph. It will turn onto the main street and insist on staying at 25mph for a very long way until the first sign is encountered. Why can't it pull this from the maps data?
@@JohnVanderbeck That makes some sense. Had it repeatedly trying to drive 25 MPH on 55 MPH country roads during my free month trial. Was very frustrating. Sometimes drove past 1, 2, or even 3 speed limit signs and it wouldn't update--would just randomly update later after I'd ended up manually driving for awhile because it freaks out about you forcing it to go 60 in what it incorrectly thinks is a 25. Really baffling behavior that would be super dangerous without supervision to be trying to drive around at under half the speed limit.
@@tHebUm18 I've never seen it miss signs personally, but for sure if there aren't any signs for a long ways then the system pretty much falls apart.
Thanks!
Thank you!
I live in Vegas. I’m constantly disengaging because of all the construction. I wish we could pinpoint home because I live on Las Vegas Blvd and FSD wants to park on the street. My parking is under my building via the alley with an assigned parking spot. There’s also a back way to get home and I’m unable to use FSD to use the shortcut way to avoid the traffic. Would be awesome to draw on the map to highlight the roads I want to actually use.
What you actually look like surprised me. Not good or bad, I just pictured a slimmish person who always has a smile on his face.
The pleasant sound of your voice and your commentary is why I subscribe to your channel. The bonus is the challenging area we live in but I'm in Mountain View which is easy for FSD.
13:50 - Idk about the US but where I'm from - if one of the lanes is blocked, the person who needs to enter the oncoming lane has to yield. So since the cars are not parked in your lane, the oncoming traffic has to yield whether it's uphill or downhill. The uphill/downhill rule is for roads where only one car fits on the road itself (not because someone parked on the road) and the logic behind it is that it is harder to go up a hill so the person going down has to yield since it is easier for them generally.
Interesting video. Now that Tesla is betting the company on FSD and putting less focus on vehicle manufacturing and supercharging, I'm going to start paying more attention to how FSD is progressing.
I seem to remember there was a court case in California that basically said the requirement for signaling was only to inform cars that would be affected by the lane change. A driver could not be cited, if there are no cars present that would be affected by the lane change.
I have the same problem with FSD locking on to a 15 mph speed limit sign from an adjacent parking area. It maintains the 15 mph limit, in spite of being on a 4 lane road with everyone else using the correct 35 mph limit. It makes fsd unusable for that stretch of road.
If so, that's a really stupid ruling.
If there is another vehicle around that the driver is not aware of, he or she will not get the information about where the driver plans to go. A typical victim for this would be an MC.
Liked this video not just for the content but also for Ground News!!! I just downloaded this app and I love it.
Uphill right of way--I only know that rule from *off roading* where it's elicit, didn't know it applied on road, but also the less capable car (off road) is given the benefit in difficult situations.
That transition to your sponsor was impeccable.
Your video and commentary really helped me because the FSD quirks you experienced, I am experiencing too. FSD can only get better, but understanding where its strengths and weaknesses are currently, is very me to use FSD with the appropriate expectations.
Although others may disagree this video gives me confidence that eventually we may get FSD here in the UK! I live in an ancient town about 20 miles of London and our roads are at least as difficult as those shown in the video! (blame the Romans!) Keep up the good work!
It’s so much better now… it’s smooth and feels very safe.
Thanks for the high quality content and commentary! I know these Berkeley Hills very well, and seeing you put FSD through its paces here really gives me more confidence into sinking $2K for the permanent upgrade.
I recently purchased a Model Y and have been enjoying the FSD trial. I'm temporarily in the suburbs of Chicago for work and FSD has made the commute much more managable.
This morning, it tried finding a spot to park at my work location, but it caught up to a garbage truck in the parking lot and started following them instead 🤣
This evening, it drove completely from work location to where I'm staying without any intervention. (~15 minutes of travel)
I’m in the process of learning how to drive, and these videos might be the best way to learn edge cases and build confidence
I was always taught (in the UK) that when driving you *should* always indicate left/right to warn and inform other road users. So, if you're aware enough that you know for sure nobody is around (such as in the very quiet road and low speed examples shown in this video), then you don't always need to indicate.
In our Highway Code rulebook, failure to comply with a rule marked as *"should"* will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted. Those legal requirement rules are explicitly labelled *MUST/MUST NOT* and refer to the exact legislation which creates the offence.
In my most recent FSD software version (12.3.6) I have been running into a serious issue with its driver attention being triggered *when I am paying the most attention to the road* because that is when I am least paying attention to exactly how much force I am applying to the steering wheel. The fact that the force has to be so close to the point where I would be taking over by force means that the driver attention system itself takes too much attention. I have now twice had it disengage for the remainder of a drive, while I was getting ready to take over because it wasn't handling a lane change properly. This just happened today on a freeway exit for going to work where it has to move over a couple of lanes to get into a right turn lane, but where it only gets over far enough quickly enough 50% of the time. This was after it dinged me several times on the freeway for watching what vehicles were doing in front of me instead of watching the touch screen to see if it was complaining about the amount of force I was applying to the steering wheel.
If there was a two second grace period between the ding about paying attention and the application of force, then I wouldn't have to pay attention to both the screen *and what is happening in front of me* to avoid being dinged for not paying attention. It is like the only part of "paying attention" that it cares about is paying attention to the freakin screen!
Love how you are going to the Berkley hills! I feel like these are the most similar roads to what you can find in some difficult areas in Europe, and gives us European viewers a glimpse at the potential capabilities of FSD in Europe. Unfortunately, still regulation-blocked, but if it happens one day, FSD will also perform great on the ancient street system of Europe! Thanks for the vid :)
2nd the amazing video editing! Your videos are great. I can’t wait until 12.4 and 12.5 come out.
This was freaking awesome. I'm currently on v 12.3.5. I can't wait for v 12.4
What would FSD do if encountered an inpass with multiple cars behind it? How would it signal to the cars behind that everyone needs to reverse?
No, there's no exceptions to the rules in the case at 14:00. You should not be yielding to the vehicle going uphill in this particular case since their side of the street is blocked (occluded). So they should be yielding.
Agreed. They are the ones that had to move into your lane to continue thus they have to yeild. Hills have nothing to do with it.
I agree.
But I might have yielded if the street was slippery from ice or snow, though.
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste
🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊
Great video, as always! Just some comments on my own experience with FSD...I am not getting as excited for new releases much anymore because they just haven't fixed the stop sign creeping behavior, and to me, that is the biggest issue FSD has right now. It is just way too tentative after the initial stop at a stop sign. At 4 way stops it goes appropriately when it's the cars "turn." I don't know why it's so much different when it's an unprotected stop.
The other issue I am having is with Yields...FSD, for me, does not seem to yield for traffic. I have had to take over more than a few times at some yields (with a yield sign) when the car would have side swiped approaching cars from the left....
Stops way too early and aggressively. Creeps too slow, really handles all intersections too slow. I feel this is something not observed by watchers because the videos are usually sped up but in reality the car handles intersections like your Grandma's Grandma on a Sunday morning and I regularly get honked at.
Also doesn't handled two-lane roundabouts properly. Doesn't handle intersections where opposing traffic both crosses and goes straight because it ignores direction signlas and just waits for every single car regardless of where it is going.
Doesn't slow down anymore when the speed limit drops.
Is it a lot better now than a few years ago? Yes. Does it still have a LOT of problems? Also yes.
@@JohnVanderbeck
I'm not seeing these issues in videos. But had always worked better in some areas than others. Obviously works best where there a re a lot of Teslas, and the videos also much more likely to come from there.
But that's also where the most people need FSD, so it's fine for now.
Yep, this stop sign logic is exactly what I deal with. Seems like it's biggest problem at this time. Not sure why they don't address it.
@@andrasbiro3007 Saying it is needed most where the most YTers are seems really silly logic to me. As for "lots of teslas", I mean there are 5 or 6 that I know of just on my block :) three of my immediate neighbors have them, and frankly they are all over my area.
A lot of issues just don't show up in videos because they aren't as visible in that medium, or are hidden (not neccesarily intentionally) byt the fact that most videos are sped up.
Stop sign behavior is annoying, but thanks NHTSA on that one--probably a garbage data set to get the model to stop fully always since only terrible drivers do if there's no other cars/VRUs.
The yield behavior you mention definitely matches my experience, had 3 safety critical disengagements in my month trial (including one today) due to it not yielding when merging onto non-freeway roads that have merge lanes where it was going to happily follow the disappearing merge lane right into the car next to me it was supposed to yield to. The yield behavior seemed like a basically 100% failure rate on those places--do roads in California not have merge lanes onto non-freeways? Seems shocking they don't have data and that it seemed like it'd have had no hesitation crashing into cars in those scenarios.
For more serious stress tests: repeat drives in this area 1) in serious rain or 2) at night or 3) in a rainy night or 4) with snow. The rain/snow will limit visibility (posing problems to a camera-prone way to implement FSD), and will be more challenging to traction control. It will also cause everyone else to behave less predictable.
The vanishing work truck @15:25 is impressive.
Coming from North Devon in the UK, I had a little chuckle at this video's definition of 'narrow roads'...
Great video - thanks - it really helps us in countries without FSD supervised understand the progress of this software. superb!
It's remarkable how much better FSD works in California between yours and Whole Mars videos compared to my free month trial in Minnesota. I reckon over my month and 750 or whatever miles, I had at least 75 disengagements, 10 or more safety critical (including several where it was trying to crash into other cars), and hundreds of interventions (often speed limits or it doing dumb lane selection on highways). It's very impressive, but definitely makes me question how good their AI is to see how much it fumbles for me on completely basic driving compared to places where it has a lot more data.
I live in a more rural area,and i just can not use it yet. There are often rocks that jut out into the road, roads with no guardrail, and it is just frankly unsafe. Do you have any opportunity to try it on roads like that near you? I understand those are much much harder, but the issues it approaches still feel dangerous. If you need stress testing, I'd recommend going more scenic.
Separately, happy to help show some of the scenarios we have in these areas which frequently cause dangerous / bad behavior basically all the time. The theme though is definitely "country roads". Let me know
I live in an area rife with 2 lane roundabouts that it screws up 90% of the time so pretty much every drive ends in disengagements.
Depressing since Elon indicated like a year ago that there was a planned update all about roundabouts.
@@JohnVanderbeckIf he was talking about it a year ago, that's gone out the window as the programming from back then has been abandoned.
Very interesting, it’s definitely improved. And thank you for enduring the pain of being stuck at 8mph for us, I know I would be dying inside in that situation 😭
Run this car for 100 min on indian roads, it will collect so much more data in one single run then it will in 100 rides in the US
V12 has been amazing. The speed issue is my biggest gripe as it happens to me many times on my drives. Can override with the accelerator if need to when it's incorrect and the car needs to be sped up but can't use FSD at all when it's incorrect in the other direction - it thinks the speed limit is faster than it really is. Happens occasionally entering towns and have to turn off FSD and drive myself until it finally figures out the correct speed. Yesterday it thought the speed limit in the parking lot at the mall was 100 kph! Didn't engage to see what would happen:-)
I love your road selection. Too many FSD tests are done in streets with a chess like layout. Not saying FSD performance there does not matter, but it is not representative for most of the world. As a european, your drives look a bit like my neighbourhood. So your videos are the best showcase of possible european FSD performance, that I am aware of. Thank your very much!
Awesome video in all regards. Thank you.
really impressive for fsd to handle these kind of roads. We getting there soon :)
Awesome video as always! Soon FSD will be driving without a human onboard (robotaxi), so the car stuck on a turn is definitively big issue!
Great to see your videos, including explanations and points of view!
Are u planning to try „bad weather“ conditions like rain, snow, at night or similar?
8:10 actually, as I understand the driving rules (at least in PA), you are supposed to stop before the crosswalk at a stop sign. no one does it IRL, but my brother didn't pass his first driver's license test because he pulled through a crosswalk at a stop sign. my guess is that the behavior shown there is a result of this rule being (mis?)applied.
23:30 I'm not sure if the "available space" being a bike lane is relevant to why it didn't use the space? this version seems to be much more cautious about pedestrians / crosswalks, so maybe that extends to bike lanes also? idk.
Excellent video, keep it up!
Been watching this channel for years, feels like we're never going to get there.
Good to see you also having the speed limit problems. Except when I've had it I've occasionally driven past 1, 2, or even 3 speed limit signs and it didn't update from them--it'd just randomly update later with no speed limit sign. I've had it repeatedly try going 25 MPH on 55 MPH rural roads where there was definitely no 25 MPH sign ever--it also really freaks out when you force it to go 60 in what it thinks (incorrectly) is a 25. Finished my free trial today, but honestly whatever is up with speed limits was the most frustrating part, constantly ruining being able to test and having to drive manually for sometimes miles before it fixed. Standard autopilot doesn't have issues reading speed limit signs.
Same. I live on a 45 mph mountain road, but we have a construction zone with a 25 mph zone. Despite a “road work ends” sign, the car continues along happily at 20 below the (45mph) speed limit until I take control.
An excellent video as usual, thank you for making it happen!
Very impressive and on some very challenging roads. It would also be good to see how it deals with the same route on the average rainy day, and then the ultimate challenge in the snow. On paper the lack of substantial camera redundancy would seem to be an issue.
As far as I am aware the system still doesn't do reverse so drive round those streets long enough and there will be instances when two cars meet and one will have to reverse.
My drive to work always has zero disengagements now. Keep up the good work, Tesla!
I love watching your videos and it's always so interesting to see what it does with these insane Cali streets. That 5MPH sign was insane as well as that pedestrian behind the statue. No way I would've seen that either. They'll definitely need to teach it to avoid the red (and yellow here in Oregon) lines on the curb. Great point about FSD using the horn. It'd be nice if it could at least do a little courtesy honk--sure, we could do the honking, but FSD would know to honk before we do.
Exciting news for me: I FINALLY OWN A TESLA and it has FSD! Picked up a '19 M3LR with a bit over 30k miles on it and I've already put over 1k miles on it with FSD. I was also really shocked with the software updates. I saw a few days ago about how 12.3.6 was going to add the parking vision for us old USS cars and I was excited to see an update two days ago and....it was 12.3.4. I was so bummed but I was excited to see if it had better behavior...but then the next day (yesterday), I had a surprise update and it was 12.3.6! O.O I think I'm going to make an excuse to go shopping to try it out. (I also want to see how it handles a few spots around here with 12.3.6. I have a turn it's too hesitant on and does 2 or 3 creeps out until it finally goes.)
I wish I had your snapshot button but I imagine the feedback when I disengage is probably good enough (though sometimes I forget to hit record). I often have it having issues with merging and with getting over to the slow lane when passing lanes open up.
Here’s my view about robotaxis. I’m sure there’ll be a use for them in certain situations. But I just can’t imagine a future where we don’t own a car and just summon one instead. Like… we keep stuff in our cars (sunglasses, stuff in the trunk, toys for children, stroller, chewing gum… etc). Just seems really impractical if we don’t own a car.
Love watching your FSD videos
Thanks for these great videos! Which V12 are you running in this video?
There are several (many?) FSD RUclips videos covering FSD and doing the same sort of drives and commenting about how it seems better in different situations, but nobody seems to identify "global" quirks and measure how they have improved.
For example:
- Has it gotten better at reducing the wait at 4-way stops?
- Has it gotten better at not getting scary close to parked cars and guard rails?
- Has the delay in changing direction when self parking been reduced?
- How long between being warned to tug the wheel and is it different depending on the situation?
- Does the in-car camera watching me mean I don't have to tug as often?
- I can FSD at up to 85mph, but if I accelerate, like getting past a truck on the freeway, and get just past 85, I get the big red steering wheel display, and can't use FSD for the rest of the trip. I want to know when they do something different, like warn me, so I don't have exit the freeway, stop and walk away from the car.
- FSD currently slows way down before taking an offramp, and bums out the people behind me. Has it gotten better?
- Not FSD, but Superchargers cut way back on rate of charge as the battery fills up. What is the algorithm and has it improved.
If at the beginning of the video, metrics like this were discussed, then the videos would be more informative and would be different from the other channels.
Just an idea. Thanks
aye bro i love you i watch the whole vid everytime, on the first day i watched like 4 or 5 diff vids + the LA downtown vid defo do it again
i have a question, what other car system can exit this parking lot? even if is not smoth from 2:15 to 4:30
Well, we all will be driven around kn a few years. Wow. Hats off for Tesla and the other companies working on this.
I just realized at 3:19.. why was there an extra person in the visualization? It was the reflection off the glass to the right! that's damn cool!
Can't wait for some new versions for you to test
I think at 15:33 it hesitates to cross the solid line . I call that the dance . It does it for me in a particular spot by my home all the time. It's .. like I know I have to get to that side but I'm not supposed to cross the solid line . If the solid line wasn't their it would have done just fine .
In your summary it would be great to get a list of regressions as well as the improvements you notice. Not things we already know that need work, regressions.
20:18 Not even "technically" illegal. Perfectly legal to cross double yellow when necessary. This certainly counts as necessary.
VC 21460 looks pretty strict, can not cross them unless you're turning left
it's impressive and should be L5 within 10 years I hope. If Tesla is not bankrupt. The reason it takes long is because it needs to almost never make any mistakes. That means it needs to go from 50000 mistakes per million miles to like 100 per million miles. So 500x less mistakes. That starts to become very very very difficult toward the long tail end.
And this is only daylight driving with no rain / snow in an area that is covered by the training set. I think it made great process with recent updates, but long way to go.
Great video to watch. Cannot wait to try it when I get my Tesla.
Amazing improvement! Can you try FSD in rush hour on multi-lane streets? I think that would be even bigger challenge.
Wanna stress test it? Come to Paris!
Really enjoy these. Thanks so much
I had FSD for over 5 years now, and yeah I can see it’s evolving, but I’m at a point now where I just don’t care unless Tesla takes responsibility while the car is driven under FSD and I don’t have to supervise anymore. Yesterday FSD was trying to plow through a lane closure (didn’t see any of the hundreds of cones and signs leading up to it), three raindrops and it slows down to embarrassingly slow speed du to weather, and lane planning is still - well let’s say it’s bad. It’s very hesitant in some situations, and way too confident in others. Still doesn’t see any of the speed bumps in my hood. Today a power line dropped on the road right in front of me, snaking around, and obviously I had to intervene for that problem. I hate to admit it, but I’m losing hope 😢
Yes . More of these please . Love them
I have to say my car never slows down when the speed limit drops anymore. It did in v11 but never does in v12. I have one area I go through where it drops from 40 to 30 for a couple blocks then back up to 40. Prloblem is that 30 zone is a government complex and a poilice station. You don't want to eb speeding through there :D
I've noticed the same behavior. When it hits a lower speed limit it's as if the car decides to coast until reaching the new speed limit instead of decelerating.
Love your vids! Keep up the great work. I have a model 3 here in Australia, but we don't have anywhere near the features you guys have over there in regards to FSD, which makes the exorbitant cost not worth it at all here.
Nice video man!
Appreciate it, thanks for watching!
@4:10 you applaud the computer for not coming to a complete stop when it was supposed to, but then use this as a diss when the human drivers do the same thing at the right on red @4:40. If anything, a rolling stop on that red is should be more permissible than the rolled stop in the parking lot, since @4:40 the lane running opposite to the direction you want to turn into has an advanced green, preventing any cars from turning or running into you. The only thing you'd have to keep an eye out for is pedestrians crossing, which it did. Parking lots are far more unpredictable in this comparison.
edit: spelling
Yeah I see your point. I think a slowing to 1mph before proceeding is very different than rolling through at 5-10mph without even touching the brakes though