@karenwestberg5838 That's my mother. I've even told her about not just the ARC, but the CSA cases happening and how one even plead guilty, and she still believes it apostate driven propaganda.
Still waiting for the United States to do that as well but then again we are kind of having an issue with making Christian religions being held accountable for anything getting the irs to get off their lazy butts and taking away some churches tax exemption status because of talking about politics on the pulpit is like pulling hens teeth
@@PokemonRules333 Not sure if you know about it, but there's a protest happening on 10/31/23 at the white house. I think it's called "Me Free" the website but it's has to do with not only Shunning, but also the CSA in all religions.
@@PokemonRules333To take away “Tax Exemption” would have to take an act of Congress! Even though JWs don’t vote it would still be (excuse the pun) shunned upon; as some in office are religious conservatives!😮😵💫🤔🇺🇸🤫🧐😎 10:44
This absolutely happened to me. My mom took my brother and I to meetings but my dad was a non jw. I was soft shunned as soon as we started attending. I was never part of the cliques. Even after I got baptized and pioneered, I never was really accepted.
Thank you for playing this voicemail, while I never heard it called soft shunning (I think bullying is a good term) I have seen this done to others and experienced this myself and my family growing up as JW and quite unfairly by individuals in congregation before I was disfellowshipped. This is a needed reminder of how harmful it can be.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, Lloyd, when you said shunning will lead to more people waking up. I was soft shunned because I chose to go to school in order to support myself and my children. I quit going when it hurt more to go than to not.
Yes! More painful to go to the meeting than to not. Disgustingly unloving. Happened to me because I chose not to vaccinate in a congregation where the body attempted to browbeat persons into taking the jab. Had a young brother "soft shunned" because he went to medical school.
@@sgt.v7237 I too was (still am) shunned for not taking the clot shot. My born in 78 yo mother was shunned too! So antichrist! the vaxx is their new golden cow “this is what brought you out of the land of €0v!d” and any “disobedient unvaxxed will not make it through armegedon”. These idolators are going to be sorely mistaken, Rev 21:8
In my congregation, this happened if the family were either a ‘divided home’ I.e. the father wasn’t a witness. The other main cause was if they were not financially well off. If you were in the ‘in crowd’ it was always if your family was well off. Sickening.
I was shunned by half my family after 1 honest conversation about my belief. Thats all it took. It pushed me right out ofbthe religion. So unloving. So disgusting. I lost 3 friends to suicide because of shunning. Its malicious.
They don't tell the person who is being soft shunned. You feel the soft shun and try to figure it out on your own. I heard a mocking talk and felt like the person on the podium was talking about me without actually using my name. And one of the elders wives turned her back on me when we were in the backroom and I saw others turn their back on me. So sneaky and underhanded. Meanwhile you feel NO love in that organization. This is one of the reasons why I left the organization. I felt NO love within from the members.Then once I stopped attending the meetings I wanted to relate to someone and found Randy Waters on freeminds on the Internet and eventually I totally woke up! So Happy I'm out of that cult. I faded because I had two daughters in the cult. Long story.
My mom and I are soft shunned as well. For no other reason than I suppose not being a "good JW" in their eyes. I nor my mom care about the people in the congregation, but my mom is PIMI and I've been PIMO since 16, but acknowledged i was a PIMO at 26, (now 31), I am agnostic, but still hanging on by a thread just for formalities and because i never was baptized, I could cheat the system and fake being interested for long enough to get by) I just don't see why my mom still buys this stuff and it becomes a heated issue when brought up and I can't fully talk to her normally because of it...I get why she would believe as a typical unknowing cult victim and why I would as a kid being raised in it, but now...I can't believe it to the point that unless I am watching 'apostates reviews of this stuff I get physically sick and tremble in anger and anxiety. Just typing this is new to me as I never 'publically' criticized the religion/cult until very recently so I tend to ramble as no one else would listen so I figure I can here. But yes, soft shunning sucks, and it like the rest if the hurtful doctrine is just that. Hurtful. Even if the org was burned down and the religion banned, like cockroaches, some will still persist and it just....sickens me to think innocent people are roped in and monsters use it to power trip and abuse. I wish I could afford to be more out than in, but baby steps. Thanks for the video and comments and sorry for rambling >o< just feels good to get some of this out when I can't physically speak it right now
Thank you to the caller for bringing this up. I was soft shunned from a very young age as well because I was always PIMO. Also, my father was disfellowshipped for his alcoholism so my entire family was marked. It affects me to this day even though I've been out for 20+ years. I've developed a tendency to shun people out of my life too easily when they don't deserve it. I hate it and I'm trying to change.
My brother and another child got a marking talk because there were holding hands. They were 12 years old each. The marking talk was about lewd conduct.
I experienced it. Soft shunning. I was in a divided household. My mum was a JW and my dad wasn't. So I was always classed as alittle too worldly for association. So yes it does cause issues. I had more worldly friends who treated me much better.
I never actually had friends inside the congregation because of this conduct but I was fortunate enough to have friends outside of it and you were right when you said that those friends treated me better than the “associations” inside the congregation
This happened to my husband his whole childhood. He was never baptized and his family wasn't considered spiritual enough so he was avoided. Like he had any control over that. This organization is so hurtful and toxic! I've been soft shunned for about 3 years now but am now POMO so I don't care what they think. They can take their toxicity somewhere else.
“Bad association spoils useful habits” at times has been one of their very main scriptures. So worldly people. And anyone who seems to be rejecting Jehovahs organization. Or even weak spiritual Jw.
I was...what I believe soft shunned. when I was 13 years old my mother was disfellowshipped and being the humble person that my mother was, we continued to go to the meetings. I also felt the punishment, other kids my age left me out and the sisters and brothers ignored me also. This happened 52 years ago, that was when I rebelled and told my mother I was out and if she was going to continue to go, it would be without me. It really impacted me to see these people treat my mother like she was invisible. My mother finally did stop going and until her dying day we were shunned when we would see the them in public places.
As somebody who has been soft shunned/marked, whichever way you would describe it, but not disfellowshipped, for a good chunk of my witness life, I can really relate to what's being said here, by both Lloyd and the comments here. Because you can only speculate on the actual reasons why, as you don't actually know why, it makes it all the more difficult to put your finger on it. One thing I do know, is that the witnesses think nothing of trying to play this behaviour down by using pathetic justification for the soft shunning, and its almost always put down to a so called 'personality flaw' like being perceived as an aloof, shy or quiet person or anti social, poor meeting attendance, poor ministry hours, not commenting at meetings, facial hair, coming from a 'divided home,' you come from a part of the UK where people in general are reserved types so they justifiably behave this way, the list goes on. Almost always, the real reason is that it's just such a clicky environment to be in, as others have mentioned, so its not always a safe place to be, especially if you suffer with your mental health as many in this organisation do.
This is an isolation tactic and is a trademark of abusive relationships. They want you to dedicate ALL your free time to the org and they will do absolutely anything necessary to get it ie. only socializing with the child at religious events and cutting off the child from any activities within the community where they could form new bonds to replace the ones being taken away. Their love is only conditional and it has an agenda.
Wow! As a child I was not aware that the congregation were excluding us (me and my sister) I just thought they didn’t like me. I grew up with disfellowshipped parents (POMI) and just assumed I was not a nice enough child to get invited to play with other children.
I think waking up so young creates problems of its own. You learn and become adapted to a very dishonest way of life. You have difficulty later in life even knowing who you really are because the "real" you is what you've learned to not express.
I was marked for sure… I was separated from my then husband and was never invited out to anything social outside of the Kingdom Hall. I don’t know if there was a talk given about it, maybe I missed that day lol. But during a time I needed support from ‘brothers and sisters’ I was marked as an outcast. That’s why I decided to leave. My ‘worldly’ friends showed more compassion towards me than the congregation.
@Lloyed Evans they dont speak of soft shunning however they do acknowledge "marking talks" and rely on the gossip inbetween members to know WHO this talk was given about
For me, soft shunning is shunning period. It is a method used, because you dont meet the criteria or status for some reason in their sick minds. It also gives them the controll and then provides them with a place to hide behind the abuse, because "they tried to help you." Its so sad at such a young age. I'm so sorry you had to go through this damaging exclusion. You are told that this is the place where you get your needs met. You go ahead and follow "the rules". No matter what you do you are still the person on the outside looking in. You are this person outside looking in "out in the world" and you are this person inside the organization. No matter how much you pray or do what they say, there is no full acceptance of you or your worth. It could be that you just walked to a different beat, had an undiagnosed disability, had a parent who was not in and one that was, your family was not financially set.....the list goes on and on. So, after you followed the rules you were still getting crumbs and you still got no validation for your efforts. Never really feeling a part of anything. And that safe place of getting your needs met doesn't exist. Very toxic, very sad. For some, it's a very joyless organization.
Many who have faded are ‘soft shunned’ by their former JW ‘friends’ and - family. My wife and I experienced this in the way that their initiatives for laying contact are minimal to nothing now where they were frequent and regular before!
That was a very interesting call and a well tempered response Lloyd. It doesn't often occur to us on the outside of this cult,, how it's use of relationships and human bonds is manipulated across a spectrum. Disapproval can be expressed in many subtle ways and by a variable degree of passive aggressive ostracism. It reminds me of Kevin Spacey as Mr Simmonette in 'Pay It Forward' saying 'you don’t have to abuse the child, but simply fail to love them'. That's enough to fall short of responsible parenting.
I left at 17 after being born in. So many times remember my mother almost raging and saying if the only people I’m allowed to associate with are dubs, then why do they not invite or include. I became very adverse to friendships and still probably am 30 years later. In high school people would insist on the importance of friendships to get through and I always thought the theory was different to the practice for me. The Bible phrase about having no natural affection springs to mind often and I implore anyone raising children in this toxic environment to get them away from it. It is a breeding ground for creating toxicity and inflicting trauma on others. I have mostly recovered but I still catch myself with prejudice, uncertainty and even fear towards other humans which just should not be there. And alternatively sometimes a lack of fear when it should be there.
@amarisrania1585, I think that Biblical concept of "having no natural affection" can be dangerous. I think JW culture can provide a perfect environment for toxic behavior that allows one to inflict emotional trauma on others, intentional or not. I think the idea of having close friendships in high school as a way to get through the high school experience is important. Humans need each other as a support system. We can't always go through all the trials of life entirely by ourselves. We're social creatures at some level, even if we enjoy being alone a lot. We live in a society, and none of us lives in and can run a one-person society. I'm sure the level of prejudice, uncertainty and fear that you feel towards other humans, or even the lack of fear, are at times natural responses, but they can sometimes be unhealthy if not managed properly. Hopefully, you can learn to manage those feelings better as time goes on. Maybe if you're able to pursue therapy, perhaps that might help?
This happened to me too and it was hard. I wanted to die. I was bullied in school because I was a JW and by the jw. It started already when I was 14 because of a boy that I liked and an other girl liked. Sometimes the reason is so simple. Just years later someone told me why they did it
I was brought up in a broken household, my meeting attendance and field service were less than exemplary.. I was labelled as a bad accociation as a kid and soft shunned most of my life
This is especially painful when you are living a morally upright Christian life and they still shun you because you cannot attend meetings due to health reasons. Should have left as soon as they revealed that shunning policy three weeks after my baptism. I remained because I believed that the only way to be protected against the demon harassment I had suffered all my life was to remain a member . But my membership was not based on informed consent in reference to their shunning policies. Neither did Imagine that they would feel authorized to go into unofficial shunning modes at the drop of a hat. In hindsight, I should have had my baptized status cancelled immediately and waited. Had I done so, I would not experienced the extremely cruel isolation they inflicted on me.
I didn’t come from a divided household. My mom had a lot of health issues which impacted things like field service. My dad was born in but was never a ministerial servant or elder. I was never comfortable with the JW expectations, resisted giving talks and field service, so I was definitely on the fringes of the organization. I was considered bad association for platonic friendships, and dating? There was already a scarcity of potential mates and being spiritually “weak” meant there was no one. There is definitely a hierarchy, even among the kids.
Yet the person being shunned often hasnt a clue why? A talk can be for an elders grand daughter /daughters yet they are NOT SHUNNED even when causing embarrassment to others yet they will do so on a stuggling single sister where some support by a loving sister would make all the difference. Yet elders wives are not truly loving are they?
My father wasn’t a witness so my mother and sister and I were excluded from most “gatherings”. I can only assume that we were not good enough by virtue of our “worldly” father.
There was always ‘that’ family in every congregation when growing up that was soft shunned. This was in the 60s and 70s. Only after decades of being out and fully waking up have I looked back in horror at the memory. It’s quite the opposite of the JWs ‘love bombing’ isn’t it? There’s definitely a reward/punish dynamic in place, much like abusers and narcissists engage in with their victims. If a family just doesn’t progress in the religion like they’re expected to, or maybe the family has one foot in and one foot out, or it’s just a single mom with her children, or one of the parents isn’t a JW, the unspoken soft shunning is practiced. They really have very specific expectations of people. It’s sick.
They keep away from “weaker ones”, ironically the ones who need the most help and would be easiest to indoctrinate with some good association and love bombing. How different that is to other fellowships that help those who need it most, in line with Jesus’ message
Thank you Lloyd! How can a 9 year old be bad association?!🤦🏻♀️. It’s definitely bullying behavior! I saw this in my congregation as well. I felt marked by some of the kids my age because my father was not a JW.
Now that I know that this is a thing, I totally recognize a similar thing happening to me when I studied with them (albeit undercover to figure out what they're doing). Apparently there was a person that desired to contact me, but that was blocked by the teacher since he deemed it inappropriate. I now realize that he thought I was not indoctrinated enough. It's just pathetic really. If there is an active JW reading this, I want you to know that we all care about you, and that is why there are these videos and ex-JW communities. We will do whatever we can to help you, if you want out and if you want help.
Soft shunning is definitely a major problem. My sister and I were soft shunned BY THE CHILDREN OF THE CONGREGATION!!! Their given reason? We, as new comers to the religion, told our parents everything! Later my children were soft shunned by the other children in the congregation we were forced into because the CO decided our congregation should be dissolved. Where did these young jerks learn this behavior? From the their parents and the Society (JW religion)!
Theoretically, even being the subject of a Marking Talk, one's behavior could be considered a "less offensive sin" I suppose. Still though, how can one justify an entire church congregation ignoring a 9-year-old child? What significant harm can most nine-year-olds cause to others that would justify being shunned by the members of a church?
Dating, getting engaged to, and or marrying an unbeliever will lead to a marking talk if you don’t stop dating that person, don’t break off an engagement, and or call off the wedding after a meeting with the elders. Some Years ago, my son was told to break off an engagement to someone who was an unbaptized publisher planning to get baptized at the next assembly, or else lose privileges and be marked. Breaking an engagement is a serious matter as it is considered a commitment!
@fchappel, While dating, becoming engaged to or marrying a non-JW can lead to a Marking Talk, it probably doesn't always happen in every single case. You must have had really strict Elders to threaten your son with a Marking Talk or a loss of congregational privileges for refusing to call of an engagement with an Unbaptized Publisher, even if your son's unbaptized fiancée was planning to get formally baptized herself at an upcoming JW Assembly. Breaking a marriage engagement can be a serious matter, depending on the circumstances if we're just talking in general here and not about the Witnesses here specifically, but even though wedding engagements be considered a commitment, the Elders of your congregation likely didn't care. They probably thought that by marrying an Unbaptized Publisher, the girl constituted some type of threat to your son's religiosity simply by virtue of not being baptized. Nothing the Witnesses community does surprises me.
Thank you for this video Lloyd. My mother was raised in a very evangelical cult like upbringing and shunning is a spectrum. My mother has this unspoken contempt when she deems I’ve done something sinful
My dad was telling me this story of when he married my step-mom (I was 4 at the time and my sister was 2) and how basically the entire congregation shunned them because apparently their marriage wasn’t “right” in their eyes. It was disgusting. But this basically opened my eyes and made sense of why I and my family always felt left out of the congregation
I knew plenty of Witnesses that were kind but as far as the soft shunning, that always took place against me until people needed my pickup truck. Now I became a good associate as if I never saw how two faced people can be (friends with terms and conditions).
I just discovered your channel today and thought I would dip my toes in 😊. When I first saw the title I thought per chance it was regarding Public Reproof (which I had also experienced when I had been in). I would almost say it is just as bad as being DF’d if not worse (for me) in a psychological way.
Every KH must have a token person who must be spayed on, watched, then bullied by shunning. At LEAST one. They have to target someone or it would not be a bully religion serving a bully god. As Wooly Bully Lett would say: Bah Bah Black Sheep.
tellement vrai... excellents arguments qui expliquent bien des choses... effectivement on finit par s'apercevoir qu'on ne vit pas dans le même monde de bizounours.. Merci Lloyd
Don't you just love it when you're shunned, slandered and physically punched among other very cruel things FOR YEARS, for accidently seeing a elders Active WITNESS daughter's naked modeling pictures on the internet where she bares her tattoos and multiple piercings. Oooh the stories I can tell. I can laugh now, after year's of therapy but then, it was devastating to my life. I still feel massive anxiety when I see old "friends". I can truly say that Jesus has healed so much of what was broken in me from over 13 years of trauma from those "imperfect people" in a "perfect organization" I encourage anyone to build the relationship with your Creator way before accepting a religions doctrine. Let Him guide you NOT men.
When the freedom of shunning is taken away by law we will be forced to associate with assholes, narcissists, lunatics and other human shaped beings we despise.
@@Vicki_Benji When governments dictate laws limiting freedom of belief citizens may be liable for failure of acceptance of any imitation of a human being.
@xxxxyz854, While it's true that no one should be forced to associate with someone else, we still have to have some necessary social contact with people we don't like sometimes, and who here, in the comment section to this video, was advocating for shunning being punishable by law?
@@xxxxyz854 , While freedom of belief in itself should not be limited by any government, one also does not have the right to coerce or manipulate others to act in accordance with their beliefs either. And the law can prevent people from acting on certain beliefs. Even the freedom of belief has to have some limitations, just like every other law does.
Really a good revelation,I would say it is a part of the culture that grows from the scripture on bad association. I did not apologize for my questioning the life style of other families in our hall. The society told us that just because some are Witnesses, does NOT necessarily make them good association. We were taught to be fearful of each other. Our kids were taught to spy on the other kids and report on them, go to the elders with the gossip. If you know someone is sinning,and you do not tell, you are guilty also. I was always telling , reporting on who was smoking, drinking, etc., so it was not safe to invite me to JW get togethers, too much secrecy. Years later, now, I am so sorry for my judgmental ,self righteous behaviour. All the comments are true, it is bullying, unkind, cruel etc.. I am so pleased that it is brought to attention. For all those who felt inferior, we now know the truth. This organization controls by bully tactics.
If you are not in the hierarchical list of being a elder s wife or related to one of the special ones in KH then you are ignored in the KH. JW in same KH can be very clicque and snub others there.
My daughter soft shuns my husband who was never a JW, and our JW son never speaks to either of us. It was this very thing that woke me up and leave this disgusting cult.
All Atheists, Agnostics, and members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions are FREE to mock and degrade the BIBLE as just a worthless and useless book of lies, deceits, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales. All Atheists, Agnostics, and members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions are FREE to worship and glorify the Father of Lies and fill the world with the lies and falsehoods of the Pastors and Leaders of Religions about "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", and "reincarnation". All Atheists, Agnostics, and members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions are FREE to mock and degrade - 1. the Creator as worthless, useless and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign God 2. Jesus Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever in their own lives and existence. Likewise, just the same... The CREATOR, as a loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father, is also FREE to reward and honor all his worshippers and believers of his Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of Religions, without liars, traitors, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, and murderers. JESUS CHRIST, as a loving, kind, and merciful Heavenly Master and King, is also FREE in the right and proper time, to resurrect back to life all his believers and worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and many others so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
At times I struggle and doubt myself, it it's just a perception or if it's reality. Because it's often done in a subtle, malicious and manipulative way. I fought my whole life to have affection, love and recognition from my family. I felt like it never happened and still doesn't, no matter how much I do, how much I give, how much I put my needs aside till I burst because it's just unbearable and unreachable. I faded a long time ago, to keep contact and don't put them in a difficult situation. Sometimes I doubt if it was the best decision, though I couldn't force myself to do anything differently
@@patricelanauze8301 is it? My husband's family is in the 'world' and they welcomed me 15 years ago. And so my inlaws families too. It is nothing like that. Of course there are difficulties from time to time, but I think you completely missed the point. We''re talking about a different matter here. How this religion affects relationships.
Hello, and thank you for all your information. I'm dating someone that is involved in the JW organization, and we had many disagreements on their beliefs and my own. Not sure if I should just walk away or stick it out. Please help 😢
I call it "clicky" I never fit in anyway...I'm too creative ..too artistic... It was the 80s ....I wore too much black! I remember short skirts were a NO NO... I wore long skirts or dresses..and a sister made it a problem...my style was not liked... No biggy...all the older groovy 50s style sisters LOVED me..I loved Yvonne Thornton! Her beehives were so Rad!! 🎉 Her garlic breath/burps were 😱 powerful! ..so cute! Hahahaha I didn't let it get me down ....I always loved volunteering in the cafeteria & helping & cleaning & serving all the conventions and assemblys back in the day... Oh the 😅days of 'Stadium conventions' for a week! 😊
Then there’s the soft shunning involving individual personal conscience. An individual may feel that someone in the congregation is not following organizational direction or not following Bible principles in their opinion. This leads some to soft shun on a personal level. This happened to me and my daughter who didn’t take the Kovid 💉by family. In one case we were completely shunned. Mind blowing!!😮
@fchappell, As for the idea of soft shunning being "a matter of individual personal conscience" because an individual feels that a member of their JW congregation is not following the rules promoted by the Organization and is not living according to the Society's interpretation of Biblical principles -- I don't think it's much a matter of choice. To not avoid such a person could get you labelled as "bad association" by other members of your congregation and then you, too, can be subject to soft shunning.
The Apostle Paul was self admitted a Pharisee and a lot of his “opinions” were rooted in his education of the Law and much of doesn’t really match up with what Jesus Christ who was ostensibly opposed to the rule mongering Pharisee class was saying. I think we are supposed to realize that and choose what is right and good
To develop a thick skin against such tactics is your best offense. You don't need control freaks in your life and that is the reason they do it. It's to get you to do what they want you to do. I think teaching a child to say no! isa great way for them to find out their true self. Keep in mind that others can say no to you too. Then people can learn to compromise in a way that both parties get what they want if it's in reason. ( withholding food,shelter, or medical to a child is not reasonable- (withholding toys -but not destroying them or giving them to another permanently is reasonable) Parent's sending to one's room with a timer is ok but not shutting them away for hours or days isn't. Getting mad because a child has questions and asks them isn't reasonable either.. It's okay if some people don't like you for whatever reason . You don't have to fix that. Find more interesting things to do. Adults, children don't have to like what you like.
You don't have to be baptized to find yourself the find yourself being the subject of a Marking Talk, I'm sure, and presumably, you don't have to be an adult either. I don't know how the various degrees of shunning employed within Kingdom Hall congregations don't inspire more Witnesses to become disenchanted with the faith or to social distance themselves from other Witnesses more. This just creates a toxic environment that is ripe for psychological and emotion abuse, not to mention clique-like behavior. What is this...a Church or a high school clique? Who the hell wants to play the "MEAN GIRLS" game as an adult?
Do not fall away from Christ when "SHUNNED" John 16:1-5 “I have told you these things so that you won’t abandon your faith. For you will be expelled from the synagogues, and the time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God. This is because they have never known the Father or me. Yes, I’m telling you these things now, so that when they happen, you will remember my warning. Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary" Our Lord Jesus, by giving his disciples notice of trouble, designed that the terror might not be a surprise to them. It is possible for those who are real enemies to God's service, to pretend zeal for it. This does not lessen the sin of the persecutors; villanies will never be changed by putting the name of God to them. As Jesus in his sufferings, so his followers in theirs, should look to the fulfilling of Scripture.
Where is COMPASSION and KINDNESS ? Jw makes sermons , speech . NATO = NO action talk only . JW : " How we put on and keep on the new personality " col 3 ;10 ( jw october 16 2022 ) They say ; compassion , love , kindness ............. words and words . always the same words like a lover does . Prometen muchos regalos y lo que dan son puros palos . Stay tuned with gospels !!
This is almost,worsw than being DFed,as the lines are blurred,as it is on a hint basis from a talk given to all the members,if you stop doing things that might be considered bad association,by some of JWs,you might find your self on that list forever....,could this leave to more problems inside the congregation,as some members due to conscious matter,dont think it is bad enough to completely ,inviting that brother/sister to their home??
There is nothing good i can say about the organization one of my biggest mistake i made in my life was joining never got baptized joined in my late 60 ts i was not in there click they made it so obvious long story and not a good one
I was a liar, a thief, and a pervert by age 7, but was never shunned, I think because I was esthetically adorable, i gave stellar #2 talks and service presentations. My freinds parents really lo😢ved me, even though they knew i had issues. (White/handsome priveledge? I Beleive I once got ou of a DUI because i was white,driving a nice car, and wearing a suit) Sorry yall. Life is not fair. (BTW I conduct myself honorably now in all matters, no criminal record, arrests or sexual assaults) don't hate me too much😢
No such phrase. That could just be the people in your cong. I also question a 9 yr old's understanding this situation! I have not any 9 yr olds that are mature enough to even understand. Sounds like more your issue.
There you go. A sterling example of the very harsh, judgmental attitude that can cause mental anguish, especially in an emotionally immature nine year old child.
@swhite10539, Why does "soft shunning" have to be an official JW phrase? So, a 9-year-old can't tell when they're being ignored by other people, according to you? I'm sorry, babe, but I don't exactly believe you.
Yes you can. Yes if they are cutting you out from everything. Yes if noone say hi to you. I have been there, I know how its working and only cos what my parents did i got soft shunning. Their sin got over my head, before I got baptized and after it. There are soft shunning and full shunning, After I left org I got it full now. There are different levels of shunning. I remember when I was 14 or 15 there was huge kids party and they invited everyone else than me. After the party I wasked why from the kid that had it. She said to me you arent cood company, my (elder) dad said to me that. So it wasnt only with kids adults made kid soft shunning me.
@@SuperAvery10 Exactly. It's an example of Narcissistic Gaslighting. "You aren't remembering things accurately", "Things were not as bad as You are making them out to be. You're Exaggerating"...etc... JWs are mostly Narcissistic and some Ex-JWs are Narcissistic even without Watchtower Org's Influence and Encouragement.
It does not matter to me what the Watchtower Society says, shunning is still shunning, and it is disgustingly unkind.
@karenwestberg5838 That's my mother. I've even told her about not just the ARC, but the CSA cases happening and how one even plead guilty, and she still believes it apostate driven propaganda.
At the basic level shunning is shunning and is a BULLYING tactic by the elders wives then the Elders. 😡😡😡
I hope shunning causes more people to wake up and leave this horrific organization. I'm glad some countries are holding them accountable for it too.
Still waiting for the United States to do that as well but then again we are kind of having an issue with making Christian religions being held accountable for anything getting the irs to get off their lazy butts and taking away some churches tax exemption status because of talking about politics on the pulpit is like pulling hens teeth
Shunning was what made me question the JW cult and eventually leave.
@@morningglory9288 I'm glad you made it out!
@@PokemonRules333 Not sure if you know about it, but there's a protest happening on 10/31/23 at the white house. I think it's called "Me Free" the website but it's has to do with not only Shunning, but also the CSA in all religions.
@@PokemonRules333To take away “Tax Exemption” would have to take an act of Congress! Even though JWs don’t vote it would still be (excuse the pun) shunned upon; as some in office are religious conservatives!😮😵💫🤔🇺🇸🤫🧐😎 10:44
“Weaponize human relationships.” If that doesn’t fit nicely into the handbook of high control/cult-like behavior, I don’t know what does.
This absolutely happened to me. My mom took my brother and I to meetings but my dad was a non jw. I was soft shunned as soon as we started attending. I was never part of the cliques. Even after I got baptized and pioneered, I never was really accepted.
Thank you for playing this voicemail, while I never heard it called soft shunning (I think bullying is a good term) I have seen this done to others and experienced this myself and my family growing up as JW and quite unfairly by individuals in congregation before I was disfellowshipped. This is a needed reminder of how harmful it can be.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, Lloyd, when you said shunning will lead to more people waking up. I was soft shunned because I chose to go to school in order to support myself and my children. I quit going when it hurt more to go than to not.
@karenwestberg5838, for the most part we are but my older daughter still carries some of the scars.
Did you stop going to the meetings or stop going to school? I wasn't sure of your statement. Thx
Yes! More painful to go to the meeting than to not. Disgustingly unloving. Happened to me because I chose not to vaccinate in a congregation where the body attempted to browbeat persons into taking the jab. Had a young brother "soft shunned" because he went to medical school.
@@sgt.v7237 I too was (still am) shunned for not taking the clot shot. My born in 78 yo mother was shunned too! So antichrist! the vaxx is their new golden cow “this is what brought you out of the land of €0v!d” and any “disobedient unvaxxed will not make it through armegedon”. These idolators are going to be sorely mistaken, Rev 21:8
In my congregation, this happened if the family were either a ‘divided home’ I.e. the father wasn’t a witness. The other main cause was if they were not financially well off. If you were in the ‘in crowd’ it was always if your family was well off. Sickening.
I was shunned by half my family after 1 honest conversation about my belief. Thats all it took. It pushed me right out ofbthe religion. So unloving. So disgusting. I lost 3 friends to suicide because of shunning. Its malicious.
They don't tell the person who is being soft shunned. You feel the soft shun and try to figure it out on your own. I heard a mocking talk and felt like the person on the podium was talking about me without actually using my name. And one of the elders wives turned her back on me when we were in the backroom and I saw others turn their back on me. So sneaky and underhanded. Meanwhile you feel NO love in that organization. This is one of the reasons why I left the organization. I felt NO love within from the members.Then once I stopped attending the meetings I wanted to relate to someone and found Randy Waters on freeminds on the Internet and eventually I totally woke up! So Happy I'm out of that cult. I faded because I had two daughters in the cult. Long story.
Good for you,they did you a favor,sure hope your children left as well❤
Glad you escaped their mind control techniques.
My mom and I are soft shunned as well. For no other reason than I suppose not being a "good JW" in their eyes. I nor my mom care about the people in the congregation, but my mom is PIMI and I've been PIMO since 16, but acknowledged i was a PIMO at 26, (now 31), I am agnostic, but still hanging on by a thread just for formalities and because i never was baptized, I could cheat the system and fake being interested for long enough to get by) I just don't see why my mom still buys this stuff and it becomes a heated issue when brought up and I can't fully talk to her normally because of it...I get why she would believe as a typical unknowing cult victim and why I would as a kid being raised in it, but now...I can't believe it to the point that unless I am watching 'apostates reviews of this stuff I get physically sick and tremble in anger and anxiety. Just typing this is new to me as I never 'publically' criticized the religion/cult until very recently so I tend to ramble as no one else would listen so I figure I can here. But yes, soft shunning sucks, and it like the rest if the hurtful doctrine is just that. Hurtful. Even if the org was burned down and the religion banned, like cockroaches, some will still persist and it just....sickens me to think innocent people are roped in and monsters use it to power trip and abuse. I wish I could afford to be more out than in, but baby steps. Thanks for the video and comments and sorry for rambling >o< just feels good to get some of this out when I can't physically speak it right now
Thank you to the caller for bringing this up. I was soft shunned from a very young age as well because I was always PIMO. Also, my father was disfellowshipped for his alcoholism so my entire family was marked. It affects me to this day even though I've been out for 20+ years. I've developed a tendency to shun people out of my life too easily when they don't deserve it. I hate it and I'm trying to change.
My brother and another child got a marking talk because there were holding hands. They were 12 years old each. The marking talk was about lewd conduct.
This was a solidly good call; clearly communicated, thoughtful & so so SO relatable.
I experienced it. Soft shunning. I was in a divided household. My mum was a JW and my dad wasn't. So I was always classed as alittle too worldly for association. So yes it does cause issues. I had more worldly friends who treated me much better.
I never actually had friends inside the congregation because of this conduct but I was fortunate enough to have friends outside of it and you were right when you said that those friends treated me better than the “associations” inside the congregation
This happened to my husband his whole childhood. He was never baptized and his family wasn't considered spiritual enough so he was avoided. Like he had any control over that. This organization is so hurtful and toxic! I've been soft shunned for about 3 years now but am now POMO so I don't care what they think. They can take their toxicity somewhere else.
As terrible as it is that she went through this shunning, I think they did her a favor in the long term. Waking her up at such a young age.
It’s so manipulative how they reform words like love for example … telling people it’s loving to shun their children… when it’s such a hateful act
“Bad association spoils useful habits” at times has been one of their very main scriptures.
So worldly people. And anyone who seems to be rejecting Jehovahs organization. Or even weak spiritual Jw.
They preach forgiveness but why they don't
forgive their families that they are shunning
Jesus did not shun anyone
I was...what I believe soft shunned. when I was 13 years old my mother was disfellowshipped and being the humble person that my mother was, we continued to go to the meetings. I also felt the punishment, other kids my age left me out and the sisters and brothers ignored me also. This happened 52 years ago, that was when I rebelled and told my mother I was out and if she was going to continue to go, it would be without me. It really impacted me to see these people treat my mother like she was invisible. My mother finally did stop going and until her dying day we were shunned when we would see the them in public places.
Growing up in this religion where congregations were being ignored for being poor,fatherless kids RIDICULOUS !!!
As somebody who has been soft shunned/marked, whichever way you would describe it, but not disfellowshipped, for a good chunk of my witness life, I can really relate to what's being said here, by both Lloyd and the comments here. Because you can only speculate on the actual reasons why, as you don't actually know why, it makes it all the more difficult to put your finger on it. One thing I do know, is that the witnesses think nothing of trying to play this behaviour down by using pathetic justification for the soft shunning, and its almost always put down to a so called 'personality flaw' like being perceived as an aloof, shy or quiet person or anti social, poor meeting attendance, poor ministry hours, not commenting at meetings, facial hair, coming from a 'divided home,' you come from a part of the UK where people in general are reserved types so they justifiably behave this way, the list goes on. Almost always, the real reason is that it's just such a clicky environment to be in, as others have mentioned, so its not always a safe place to be, especially if you suffer with your mental health as many in this organisation do.
💯
Its extremely evil ,inhumane and totally unbiblical.
Where does love come into this ?
Happened to me covertly as a single mother-didn’t fit the social structures etc etc ad nauseum!
Soft shunning-marking-shunning: how cruel to do to a child frail system. Abuse. Ugly as hell. Shame on WT.
I have the solution to shunning
Shunn them back!
Second that
This is an isolation tactic and is a trademark of abusive relationships. They want you to dedicate ALL your free time to the org and they will do absolutely anything necessary to get it ie. only socializing with the child at religious events and cutting off the child from any activities within the community where they could form new bonds to replace the ones being taken away. Their love is only conditional and it has an agenda.
Wow! As a child I was not aware that the congregation were excluding us (me and my sister) I just thought they didn’t like me. I grew up with disfellowshipped parents (POMI) and just assumed I was not a nice enough child to get invited to play with other children.
I think waking up so young creates problems of its own. You learn and become adapted to a very dishonest way of life. You have difficulty later in life even knowing who you really are because the "real" you is what you've learned to not express.
Soft shunnng/marking is when they shun you even though you've done nothing that would merit a judicial committee.
Or as in my case when they believe a malicious rumour
I was marked for sure… I was separated from my then husband and was never invited out to anything social outside of the Kingdom Hall. I don’t know if there was a talk given about it, maybe I missed that day lol. But during a time I needed support from ‘brothers and sisters’ I was marked as an outcast. That’s why I decided to leave. My ‘worldly’ friends showed more compassion towards me than the congregation.
I remember reading in an older WT from the "70's" that stated okay to" mark " someone for personal reasons.
@Lloyed Evans they dont speak of soft shunning however they do acknowledge "marking talks" and rely on the gossip inbetween members to know WHO this talk was given about
For me, soft shunning is shunning period. It is a method used, because you dont meet the criteria or status for some reason in their sick minds. It also gives them the controll and then provides them with a place to hide behind the abuse, because "they tried to help you." Its so sad at such a young age. I'm so sorry you had to go through this damaging exclusion. You are told that this is the place where you get your needs met. You go ahead and follow "the rules". No matter what you do you are still the person on the outside looking in. You are this person outside looking in "out in the world" and you are this person inside the organization. No matter how much you pray or do what they say, there is no full acceptance of you or your worth. It could be that you just walked to a different beat, had an undiagnosed disability, had a parent who was not in and one that was, your family was not financially set.....the list goes on and on. So, after you followed the rules you were still getting crumbs and you still got no validation for your efforts. Never really feeling a part of anything. And that safe place of getting your needs met doesn't exist. Very toxic, very sad. For some, it's a very joyless organization.
I experienced the same as her when i was a kid i went to three different halls and was not treated very nicely by the kids in either of the halls.
Soft shunning can start if your parent/s do something wrong. That started when I was teen.
Many who have faded are ‘soft shunned’ by their former JW ‘friends’ and - family. My wife and I experienced this in the way that their initiatives for laying contact are minimal to nothing now where they were frequent and regular before!
That was a very interesting call and a well tempered response Lloyd. It doesn't often occur to us on the outside of this cult,, how it's use of relationships and human bonds is manipulated across a spectrum. Disapproval can be expressed in many subtle ways and by a variable degree of passive aggressive ostracism. It reminds me of Kevin Spacey as Mr Simmonette in 'Pay It Forward' saying 'you don’t have to abuse the child, but simply fail to love them'. That's enough to fall short of responsible parenting.
Oh, Wow, i remember "Marking" What a horrible thing to do to someone else.
I left at 17 after being born in. So many times remember my mother almost raging and saying if the only people I’m allowed to associate with are dubs, then why do they not invite or include.
I became very adverse to friendships and still probably am 30 years later. In high school people would insist on the importance of friendships to get through and I always thought the theory was different to the practice for me.
The Bible phrase about having no natural affection springs to mind often and I implore anyone raising children in this toxic environment to get them away from it. It is a breeding ground for creating toxicity and inflicting trauma on others.
I have mostly recovered but I still catch myself with prejudice, uncertainty and even fear towards other humans which just should not be there. And alternatively sometimes a lack of fear when it should be there.
@amarisrania1585,
I think that Biblical concept of "having no natural affection" can be dangerous. I think JW culture can provide a perfect environment for toxic behavior that allows one to inflict emotional trauma on others, intentional or not. I think the idea of having close friendships in high school as a way to get through the high school experience is important. Humans need each other as a support system. We can't always go through all the trials of life entirely by ourselves. We're social creatures at some level, even if we enjoy being alone a lot. We live in a society, and none of us lives in and can run a one-person society.
I'm sure the level of prejudice, uncertainty and fear that you feel towards other humans, or even the lack of fear, are at times natural responses, but they can sometimes be unhealthy if not managed properly. Hopefully, you can learn to manage those feelings better as time goes on. Maybe if you're able to pursue therapy, perhaps that might help?
This happened to me too and it was hard. I wanted to die. I was bullied in school because I was a JW and by the jw. It started already when I was 14 because of a boy that I liked and an other girl liked. Sometimes the reason is so simple. Just years later someone told me why they did it
I was brought up in a broken household, my meeting attendance and field service were less than exemplary.. I was labelled as a bad accociation as a kid and soft shunned most of my life
I’m so sorry. I hope you are free now with many friends, good people in the “world”. ❤
This is especially painful when you are living a morally upright Christian life and they still shun you because you cannot attend meetings due to health reasons. Should have left as soon as they revealed that shunning policy three weeks after my baptism. I remained because I believed that the only way to be protected against the demon harassment I had suffered all my life was to remain a member . But my membership was not based on informed consent in reference to their shunning policies. Neither did Imagine that they would feel authorized to go into unofficial shunning modes at the drop of a hat. In hindsight, I should have had my baptized status cancelled immediately and waited. Had I done so, I would not experienced the extremely cruel isolation they inflicted on me.
@@Radrook353😢😢
I didn’t come from a divided household. My mom had a lot of health issues which impacted things like field service. My dad was born in but was never a ministerial servant or elder. I was never comfortable with the JW expectations, resisted giving talks and field service, so I was definitely on the fringes of the organization. I was considered bad association for platonic friendships, and dating? There was already a scarcity of potential mates and being spiritually “weak” meant there was no one. There is definitely a hierarchy, even among the kids.
Yet the person being shunned often hasnt a clue why? A talk can be for an elders grand daughter /daughters yet they are NOT SHUNNED even when causing embarrassment to others yet they will do so on a stuggling single sister where some support by a loving sister would make all the difference. Yet elders wives are not truly loving are they?
My father wasn’t a witness so my mother and sister and I were excluded from most “gatherings”. I can only assume that we were not good enough by virtue of our “worldly” father.
Yep, me too. Not good enough because my dad was never a jw…. So hurtful to a child
There was always ‘that’ family in every congregation when growing up that was soft shunned. This was in the 60s and 70s. Only after decades of being out and fully waking up have I looked back in horror at the memory. It’s quite the opposite of the JWs ‘love bombing’ isn’t it? There’s definitely a reward/punish dynamic in place, much like abusers and narcissists engage in with their victims. If a family just doesn’t progress in the religion like they’re expected to, or maybe the family has one foot in and one foot out, or it’s just a single mom with her children, or one of the parents isn’t a JW, the unspoken soft shunning is practiced. They really have very specific expectations of people. It’s sick.
I love you so much mr Loyd ❤
They keep away from “weaker ones”, ironically the ones who need the most help and would be easiest to indoctrinate with some good association and love bombing. How different that is to other fellowships that help those who need it most, in line with Jesus’ message
This talk gave me an earworm . An old song from the 60s call In Crowd by Dobie Gray
🎵I’m in with the in crowd🎶
Thank you Lloyd so much
Thank you Lloyd! How can a 9 year old be bad association?!🤦🏻♀️. It’s definitely bullying behavior! I saw this in my congregation as well. I felt marked by some of the kids my age because my father was not a JW.
Now that I know that this is a thing, I totally recognize a similar thing happening to me when I studied with them (albeit undercover to figure out what they're doing). Apparently there was a person that desired to contact me, but that was blocked by the teacher since he deemed it inappropriate. I now realize that he thought I was not indoctrinated enough. It's just pathetic really.
If there is an active JW reading this, I want you to know that we all care about you, and that is why there are these videos and ex-JW communities. We will do whatever we can to help you, if you want out and if you want help.
Soft shunning is definitely a major problem. My sister and I were soft shunned BY THE CHILDREN OF THE CONGREGATION!!! Their given reason? We, as new comers to the religion, told our parents everything! Later my children were soft shunned by the other children in the congregation we were forced into because the CO decided our congregation should be dissolved. Where did these young jerks learn this behavior? From the their parents and the Society (JW religion)!
Theoretically, even being the subject of a Marking Talk, one's behavior could be considered a "less offensive sin" I suppose. Still though, how can one justify an entire church congregation ignoring a 9-year-old child? What significant harm can most nine-year-olds cause to others that would justify being shunned by the members of a church?
Dating, getting engaged to, and or marrying an unbeliever will lead to a marking talk if you don’t stop dating that person, don’t break off an engagement, and or call off the wedding after a meeting with the elders.
Some Years ago, my son was told to break off an engagement to someone who was an unbaptized publisher planning to get baptized at the next assembly, or else lose privileges and be marked. Breaking an engagement is a serious matter as it is considered a commitment!
@fchappel,
While dating, becoming engaged to or marrying a non-JW can lead to a Marking Talk, it probably doesn't always happen in every single case. You must have had really strict Elders to threaten your son with a Marking Talk or a loss of congregational privileges for refusing to call of an engagement with an Unbaptized Publisher, even if your son's unbaptized fiancée was planning to get formally baptized herself at an upcoming JW Assembly.
Breaking a marriage engagement can be a serious matter, depending on the circumstances if we're just talking in general here and not about the Witnesses here specifically, but even though wedding engagements be considered a commitment, the Elders of your congregation likely didn't care. They probably thought that by marrying an Unbaptized Publisher, the girl constituted some type of threat to your son's religiosity simply by virtue of not being baptized.
Nothing the Witnesses community does surprises me.
Thank you for this video Lloyd. My mother was raised in a very evangelical cult like upbringing and shunning is a spectrum. My mother has this unspoken contempt when she deems I’ve done something sinful
Manipulation.. SMDH!
My dad was telling me this story of when he married my step-mom (I was 4 at the time and my sister was 2) and how basically the entire congregation shunned them because apparently their marriage wasn’t “right” in their eyes. It was disgusting. But this basically opened my eyes and made sense of why I and my family always felt left out of the congregation
I knew plenty of Witnesses that were kind but as far as the soft shunning, that always took place against me until people needed my pickup truck. Now I became a good associate as if I never saw how two faced people can be (friends with terms and conditions).
I was soft shunned bullying yes
I just discovered your channel today and thought I would dip my toes in 😊. When I first saw the title I thought per chance it was regarding Public Reproof (which I had also experienced when I had been in). I would almost say it is just as bad as being DF’d if not worse (for me) in a psychological way.
Yes, ostracism is a messed up way of controlling people. Welcome to the channel! 🙂
Every KH must have a token person who must be spayed on, watched, then bullied by shunning. At LEAST one. They have to target someone or it would not be a bully religion serving a bully god. As Wooly Bully Lett would say: Bah Bah Black Sheep.
Lloyd, you look AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Way to go, man! Hope you are doing alright!
Thanks so much!! I’m hanging in there 🙂
tellement vrai... excellents arguments qui expliquent bien des choses... effectivement on finit par s'apercevoir qu'on ne vit pas dans le même monde de bizounours.. Merci Lloyd
Don't you just love it when you're shunned, slandered and physically punched among other very cruel things FOR YEARS, for accidently seeing a elders Active WITNESS daughter's naked modeling pictures on the internet where she bares her tattoos and multiple piercings. Oooh the stories I can tell. I can laugh now, after year's of therapy but then, it was devastating to my life. I still feel massive anxiety when I see old "friends". I can truly say that Jesus has healed so much of what was broken in me from over 13 years of trauma from those "imperfect people" in a "perfect organization" I encourage anyone to build the relationship with your Creator way before accepting a religions doctrine. Let Him guide you NOT men.
When the freedom of shunning is taken away by law we will be forced to associate with assholes, narcissists, lunatics and other human shaped beings we despise.
Can you explain what you mean?
@@Vicki_Benji When governments dictate laws limiting freedom of belief citizens may be liable for failure of acceptance of any imitation of a human being.
@karenwestberg5838 Governmental control of belief is not an expansion of freedom.
@xxxxyz854,
While it's true that no one should be forced to associate with someone else, we still have to have some necessary social contact with people we don't like sometimes, and who here, in the comment section to this video, was advocating for shunning being punishable by law?
@@xxxxyz854 ,
While freedom of belief in itself should not be limited by any government, one also does not have the right to coerce or manipulate others to act in accordance with their beliefs either. And the law can prevent people from acting on certain beliefs. Even the freedom of belief has to have some limitations, just like every other law does.
Really a good revelation,I would say it is a part of the culture that grows from the scripture on bad association.
I did not apologize for my questioning the life style of other families in our hall.
The society told us that just because some are Witnesses, does NOT necessarily make them good association.
We were taught to be fearful of each other.
Our kids were taught to spy on the other kids and report on them, go to the elders with the gossip.
If you know someone is sinning,and you do not tell, you are guilty also.
I was always telling , reporting on who was smoking, drinking, etc., so it was not safe to invite me to JW get togethers, too much secrecy.
Years later, now, I am so sorry for my judgmental ,self righteous behaviour.
All the comments are true, it is bullying, unkind, cruel etc..
I am so pleased that it is brought to attention.
For all those who felt inferior, we now know the truth.
This organization controls by bully tactics.
It could be anything. With me it was the type of music I liked and my 'unbalanced obsession ' with becoming a good guitar player.
If you are not in the hierarchical list of being a elder s wife or related to one of the special ones in KH then you are ignored in the KH. JW in same KH can be very clicque and snub others there.
She could make a living doing audiobooks.
My daughter soft shuns my husband who was never a JW, and our JW son never speaks to either of us. It was this very thing that woke me up and leave this disgusting cult.
All Atheists, Agnostics, and members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions are FREE to mock and degrade the BIBLE as just a worthless and useless book of lies, deceits, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales.
All Atheists, Agnostics, and members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions are FREE to worship and glorify the Father of Lies and fill the world with the lies and falsehoods of the Pastors and Leaders of Religions about "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", and "reincarnation".
All Atheists, Agnostics, and members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions are FREE to mock and degrade -
1. the Creator as worthless, useless and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign God
2. Jesus Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever in their own lives and existence.
Likewise, just the same...
The CREATOR, as a loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father, is also FREE
to reward and honor all his worshippers and believers of his Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of Religions, without liars, traitors, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, and murderers.
JESUS CHRIST, as a loving, kind, and merciful Heavenly Master and King, is also FREE
in the right and proper time, to resurrect back to life all his believers and worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and many others
so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the
"KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
Yes I was marked when I was a jw, so ‘soft shunned’ to put it mildly 😂
Soft shunning: a jw slips and says “happy birthd…” oops
But yet we are just despicable apostates 🔥💨. Thx for reconnecting ✅💯🍿. It’ll be interesting moving forward 💯
It’s like the elephant in the dining room syndrome I have with my mother who was raised Methodist
At times I struggle and doubt myself, it it's just a perception or if it's reality. Because it's often done in a subtle, malicious and manipulative way. I fought my whole life to have affection, love and recognition from my family. I felt like it never happened and still doesn't, no matter how much I do, how much I give, how much I put my needs aside till I burst because it's just unbearable and unreachable. I faded a long time ago, to keep contact and don't put them in a difficult situation. Sometimes I doubt if it was the best decision, though I couldn't force myself to do anything differently
In other families , in the "world" , it is same . In every country . In DDR , in Kingdoms or republics , it is same .
It is human relationship .
@@patricelanauze8301the difference is that among jw’s this type of treatment is highly encouraged
@@patricelanauze8301 is it? My husband's family is in the 'world' and they welcomed me 15 years ago. And so my inlaws families too. It is nothing like that. Of course there are difficulties from time to time, but I think you completely missed the point. We''re talking about a different matter here. How this religion affects relationships.
It's childish.
Hello, and thank you for all your information. I'm dating someone that is involved in the JW organization, and we had many disagreements on their beliefs and my own. Not sure if I should just walk away or stick it out. Please help 😢
Run!
I call it "clicky" I never fit in anyway...I'm too creative ..too artistic...
It was the 80s ....I wore too much black!
I remember short skirts were a NO NO...
I wore long skirts or dresses..and a sister made it a problem...my style was not liked...
No biggy...all the older groovy 50s style sisters LOVED me..I loved Yvonne Thornton!
Her beehives were so Rad!! 🎉
Her garlic breath/burps were 😱 powerful! ..so cute! Hahahaha
I didn't let it get me down ....I always loved volunteering in the cafeteria & helping & cleaning & serving all the conventions and assemblys back in the day...
Oh the 😅days of 'Stadium conventions' for a week! 😊
Excuse me, I meant to say “spied” not spayed.
Then there’s the soft shunning involving individual personal conscience. An individual may feel that someone in the congregation is not following organizational direction or not following Bible principles in their opinion. This leads some to soft shun on a personal level. This happened to me and my daughter who didn’t take the Kovid 💉by family. In one case we were completely shunned. Mind blowing!!😮
@fchappell,
As for the idea of soft shunning being "a matter of individual personal conscience" because an individual feels that a member of their JW congregation is not following the rules promoted by the Organization and is not living according to the Society's interpretation of Biblical principles -- I don't think it's much a matter of choice. To not avoid such a person could get you labelled as "bad association" by other members of your congregation and then you, too, can be subject to soft shunning.
The Apostle Paul was self admitted a Pharisee and a lot of his “opinions” were rooted in his education of the Law and much of doesn’t really match up with what Jesus Christ who was ostensibly opposed to the rule mongering Pharisee class was saying. I think we are supposed to realize that and choose what is right and good
To develop a thick skin against such tactics is your best offense. You don't need control freaks in your life and that is the reason they do it. It's to get you to do what they want you to do. I think teaching a child to say no! isa great way for them to find out their true self. Keep in mind that others can say no to you too. Then people can learn to compromise in a way that both parties get what they want if it's in reason. ( withholding food,shelter, or medical to a child is not reasonable- (withholding toys -but not destroying them or giving them to another permanently is reasonable) Parent's sending to one's room with a timer is ok but not shutting them away for hours or days isn't. Getting mad because a child has questions and asks them isn't reasonable either.. It's okay if some people don't like you for whatever reason . You don't have to fix that. Find more interesting things to do. Adults, children don't have to like what you like.
Or You could call it Soft Gaslighting 😳😬✌🏼. When You Call them on it!?🤔= Answer-“ What are You Talking about ?
You don't have to be baptized to find yourself the find yourself being the subject of a Marking Talk, I'm sure, and presumably, you don't have to be an adult either. I don't know how the various degrees of shunning employed within Kingdom Hall congregations don't inspire more Witnesses to become disenchanted with the faith or to social distance themselves from other Witnesses more. This just creates a toxic environment that is ripe for psychological and emotion abuse, not to mention clique-like behavior. What is this...a Church or a high school clique? Who the hell wants to play the "MEAN GIRLS" game as an adult?
Do not fall away from Christ when "SHUNNED" John 16:1-5
“I have told you these things so that you won’t abandon your faith. For you will be expelled from the synagogues, and the time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God. This is because they have never known the Father or me. Yes, I’m telling you these things now, so that when they happen, you will remember my warning.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary"
Our Lord Jesus, by giving his disciples notice of trouble, designed that the terror might not be a surprise to them. It is possible for those who are real enemies to God's service, to pretend zeal for it. This does not lessen the sin of the persecutors; villanies will never be changed by putting the name of God to them. As Jesus in his sufferings, so his followers in theirs, should look to the fulfilling of Scripture.
Beautifully said! Thank you!!
Where is COMPASSION and KINDNESS ?
Jw makes sermons , speech . NATO = NO action talk only .
JW : " How we put on and keep on the new personality " col 3 ;10 ( jw october 16 2022 )
They say ; compassion , love , kindness ............. words and words . always the same words like a lover does .
Prometen muchos regalos y lo que dan son puros palos .
Stay tuned with gospels !!
Cryptoshunning would be a more correct term.
First to comment
Close 2nd
3rd's the charm
This is almost,worsw than being DFed,as the lines are blurred,as it is on a hint basis from a talk given to all the members,if you stop doing things that might be considered bad association,by some of JWs,you might find your self on that list forever....,could this leave to more problems inside the congregation,as some members due to conscious matter,dont think it is bad enough to completely ,inviting that brother/sister to their home??
There is nothing good i can say about the organization one of my biggest mistake i made in my life was joining never got baptized joined in my late 60 ts i was not in there click they made it so obvious long story and not a good one
I relate,l was marked because of my own mother sharing my private business. Love you to bits Lloyd. Sharon
Thanks Sharon! Sorry about your experience.
Exakt!
The lepers of the congregation
So dramatic lol
I feel sorry for the people who have no other choice but to talk to you.
There are more of us sympathetic kind than the cruel kind you associate with.
I was a liar, a thief, and a pervert by age 7, but was never shunned, I think because I was esthetically adorable, i gave stellar #2 talks and service presentations. My freinds parents really lo😢ved me, even though they knew i had issues. (White/handsome priveledge? I Beleive I once got ou of a DUI because i was white,driving a nice car, and wearing a suit) Sorry yall. Life is not fair. (BTW I conduct myself honorably now in all matters, no criminal record, arrests or sexual assaults) don't hate me too much😢
No such phrase. That could just be the people in your cong. I also question a 9 yr old's understanding this situation! I have not any 9 yr olds that are mature enough to even understand. Sounds like more your issue.
There you go. A sterling example of the very harsh, judgmental attitude that can cause mental anguish, especially in an emotionally immature nine year old child.
@swhite10539,
Why does "soft shunning" have to be an official JW phrase? So, a 9-year-old can't tell when they're being ignored by other people, according to you? I'm sorry, babe, but I don't exactly believe you.
Yes you can. Yes if they are cutting you out from everything. Yes if noone say hi to you. I have been there, I know how its working and only cos what my parents did i got soft shunning. Their sin got over my head, before I got baptized and after it. There are soft shunning and full shunning, After I left org I got it full now. There are different levels of shunning. I remember when I was 14 or 15 there was huge kids party and they invited everyone else than me. After the party I wasked why from the kid that had it. She said to me you arent cood company, my (elder) dad said to me that. So it wasnt only with kids adults made kid soft shunning me.
@@SuperAvery10 Exactly. It's an example of Narcissistic Gaslighting.
"You aren't remembering things accurately", "Things were not as bad as You are making them out to be. You're Exaggerating"...etc...
JWs are mostly Narcissistic and some Ex-JWs are Narcissistic even without Watchtower Org's Influence and Encouragement.