I have a 20 year old son with autism who, as a result, is quite emotionally sensitive. He is being shunned by his Grandmother and Uncle (they have refused to even speak to him) as he has decided that he no longer wishes to go to meetings, has stopped his bible study and informed the elders that he does not believe that it is ‘The Truth’. He has never been baptised. I am so impressed by the courage he has shown, but what an evil organisation this is.
So brave, it must be so hard with autism. So his parents have left JWs but not his grandparents? Have the grandparents shunned their own children too? But just so sick and cruel to even shun someone with a disability.
I,ve a daughter with high funcional autism ...and she woke up here thanks to Lloyd! She was very indoctrinated. But now...is amazing. Never baptized. ( she hates shunning and disfellowshipping! )
My brother is an elder who spent 12 years in bethel. My sister is defellowshiped for something she didnt do and has been fighting for 8 years to get back in. I come from a 3rd generation jehovah's witness family. I just don't understand why im the only one who can see the horrific organization for what it is and it's practices. Shunning is inhumane. I mean how much cognitive dissonance does a person need to treat they're loved ones in such a disposable way? I'm loney and just want to reach out to those who have or are experiencing similar situations. I grew up very isolated and my social skills are stunted. My love goes out to everyone who has suffered through this. Thank you Lloyd for what you do, sometimes i cry, I'm thankful.
I support you too! Growing up JW, I saw my own relatives shunned. And then my own parents shunned me. It is an awful feeling. Please know you are worth it, as are any and everyone experiencing it.
Its done because its a very effective control mechanism and consequently people's minds are switched off as to rational and critical thought to the extent they will virtually do whatever the leaders say. They dont question it because they know where the consequences can and do lead. Its a very circular mechanism of people control. The thinking is I dont or wont argue because I could get shunned so I dont argue. If they tell me I need to shun someone I have known for 30 yrs , I will do so and pretend they dont exist and totally ignore them, no talking, no communication, no nothing ( except the elders can talk to them because they are special) and then maybe later if and when the elders decide to re-instate the hapless JW ( if he chooses to remain) then we all pretend that we really do love them and start talking to them again like nothing happened. Very much like in 1984.
Although I have not watched this video, the title alone speaks for itself. Those who refuse to shun are seen as haughty while in reality the opposite is true. They must need to triple down on this fallacy.
If you’re a JW,…no one, and I mean NO ONE, has any right to tell you to cut off association with a family member. Especially a bunch of guys in suits sitting around a board room overlooking a lake. C’mon, wake TFU.
Great comment, to add to your point, can you imagine a minister or pastor or reverend, telling a mother, ya know, the one who carried you in her womb for 9 months, that she can't talk or spend time with her own flesh and blood, only the cult of Watchtower, thinks this makes sense.
@@markusbrauns4274 This cult is so evil,That they have been so cunning to hide and preach this crime under the very noses of those secular authorities who suppose to stop this kind of criminal activities .So cunning indeed that they received governments hand outs as if they deserve a reward for their crazy evil doctrines in which shunning is just but one them.
Emotional blackmailing. It's like forcing somebody to stay in the Org no matter what. No religion and no God can force me to shun my own children. What's wrong with those pple? Never ever... That's not the love they say comes from gmGod. It is evil.
Yeah how could anyone shun their children, that's pure evil and specially as it isn't even in the Bible, just a way for them to manipulate and scare people to behave and from never leaving their cult in fear of losing their family (even if they don't believe anymore these sick, evil JW leaders want control over them).
Exactly. They just want you to stay!! It’s a numbers game. The Bible never said to shun family members. The borg goes beyond the things that are written.
As a teenager I told an elder "I'll never join this Org, no imperfect man is EVER going to tell me I am to shun my mother. I don't care she has killed someone" let alone "obey you" and your instructions as a fellow imperfect man. I was quickly labeled "bad association"....
Another great rebuttal, Lloyd. Makes me sick to my stomach to acknowledge that I actually participated in shunning my own son for 3 months before I woke the hell up and started my exit out of the cult! All I did was cry all the time, I just couldn’t do it. It took my elder husband and youngest son longer to wake up and get out, but thankfully we’re now all out, all disassociated and we see each other all the time and never been happier as a family. ❤
Bless you all! I wish all families were like yours and that nobody got “shunned” by theirs. I wish you and your family many years of happiness actually living now. Enjoying all the holidays and birthdays. Celebrate you and eachother🎉
This is the talk that prompted my parents to invite me over their house for a reason that they would not disclose over the phone, then to sit me down to have a lengthy conversation where they asked where “my head is at” with the world and the organization. I made my case, backed it up with evidence, and when it was clear to them that I have no intention of returning, they proceeded to tell me that they are tightening up with the shunning and contact is only for emergencies. So yeah, almost 10 years after I got expelled, I’ve had to say bye to my parents for the second time. Screw this family-destroying religion.
And when he says “Jehovah and Jesus” he means “Organization and Governing Body.” He’s therefore inadvertently saying, “You must love the organization and the Governing Body more than anybody else.”
Switch off humanity..... my father did with my sister. She was 16 and not baptized, she refused to go to the KH and he kicked her out. He did and said stuff I will not repeat without her consent. He shunned her and as a result he never got to see his own grandchildren because of his abject obedience to this cult. They don't want free thought or knowledge of any kind except their supposed truth.
I can no longer either see or hear these "helpers" from that GB. Getting sick! I fast forward and just listen to you Lloyd. It is much more agreeable and reasonable. Shunning is cruel..inhuman and not scriptural. End of Story. Thank you Lloyd
It's not you who will mistreat your children....it's not the Creator and his Christ who will mistreat your children... But what will you do if Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of all Religions mistreat your children like they don't exist?
I’m Christian just not a JW . I’m trained as a scientist so I see this among fundies . Atheists don’t act like that ! They don’t abuse people over religion . They will advise you to watch out for the exploitation and manipulation done by a lot of religions . JWs are as notorious as Scientology for this type of exploitation and manipulation .
No...every JW who read the Bible for themselves ...or mentioned Jesus ..and NOT the Org.are shunned now. I laught about this famous fear mongering " go bags" to my Pimi son....and he is shunning me now. It,s war really...Jw who are old and have some knowledge....against the young new JW who only worship and obey...the new Gods......the GB. It,s amazing. One more reason to get on with fading and get out from this cult. 😢
Did I miss something ? When he read Proverbs, I did not hear the word shun or shunning or disassociating. I think it was saying to trust in God instead of some old guys that are false prophets
I have noticed too that they constantly use Bible verses that have nothing to do with what they talk about or that they leave out half of the verse because it doesn't for with the propaganda they are trying to spread, it's so weird and fake. Their religion makes no sense.
Listening to the garbage they spout makes me sick. I actually feel sorry for the sad, bereft people who have been caught up in this mind-numbing dogma.
Now that little children are being encouraged to be baptized, it will be a paradoxical situation enfolding: what...the child must get shunned for borrowing a “worldly” toy and enjoying playing with it? This is going to get so much more abusive if WT is not held accountable. This must stop legally.
Great job as always, lloyd. I am preparing myself tô this convention by antecipate all this s**t tô help my wife who is waking up, pari passu. Greetings from Brasil
Whats so disturbing about this policy is the belief that the individual who leaves may somehow "see the error of their ways" and return to the cult. It doesnt aknowledge the glaring reality that individuals leave because they DONT want to follow this spiritual path anymore. So why would anyone want to commit emotional blackmail to try to force them back into a religion they dont want?
@@junkjournaljunkie Odchází naopak hodně lidí, protože věří Bohu. Nechtějí ho uctívat takovým stupidním a nelidským způsobem, jako jim to nutí dělat ta odpadlá organizace. Odchází z lásky a úcty k Bohu.
@@geraniumroseum yes I agree! Except I no longer believe in God at all. No religion will convince me there is a God. My reasoning is this: if there was a God why doesn’t he stop wars, child abuse, cancer, hunger, homelessness OR why doesn’t he do anything? If I could stop any of those things I would, he can (supposedly do anything) and doesn’t! My conclusion then is he doesn’t exist. Take care 😉
So scared of losing more members. Don't talk to people who woke up or you might too! Lol. My mom finally got out but now her own daughters aren't talking to her (or to me either).
Most disfellowshipped witnesses who apply for reinstatement do so to get their family back, and rightly so. Elders and the society know this and at least approve if not encourage it. But in that case Jesus statement at Math 10:37, (five minutes in) surely condemns such ones for putting family before him, hence not being worthy of him. As I never "left Jehovah," Jesus, or even the congregation, but was punished for refusing to repent for so-called sins I never committed, the organisation has more to answer for than I do and no doubt tens of thousands like me.
What an unchristian, and cruel thing to tell people to do to family members such as a brother, father, mother or sister who is in need of spiritual help.
JW recently lost their status as a religion in Norway because of the shunning policy. This talk certainly won't help their case. He's doubling down on uncle Tonys statement. "We're certainly not going to do that". I think they will change the policy sooner or later, at least on paper, if they lose their tax exemption in more countries.
Thanks Lloyd. I can see you are as frustrated with this rhetoric as I am. I loved your podcast on debunking shunning from what the bible says. It was excellent. They wouldnt know self help if it smacked them in the face, apparently. You are haughty if you love your family member who is out? It is so very sad and disgusting to listen to how they teach people to love.
God will deal with them for their wicked hypocrisy..Remember He's not one to be mocked!..I wouldn't want to be them when they cry out to our Lord Jesus Christ.."Lord!Lord!"😳
The speaker says they "may" come back. The reality is that they may not come back. I waited 35 years for my cousin to return. His mother was on her deathbed and he decided to return. Now he has so many health issues that he is a fraction of what he used to be. This practice is very Pharisaical in nature.
The Witnesses say come back to Jehovah; this is the epitome of haughtiness to even place yourself on equal footing to the point of controlling others, using the most high's creator's powerful name. Holy is his name and his son.
To be clear, they are not talking about avoiding getting caught up in the misdeeds of others, perhaps members of our own family. They are mandating that members cut off all contact/interaction with them. I watch my middle daughter suffer because her mother, sister and all remaining members of the family that are JW’s have cut her (and by extension her husband and children) off. She was never disfellowshipped, she simply left and has grown up to be a great daughter/wife/mother and also a great friend to many others. To double down on a wretched shunning policy does not speak to their Godly faith, it illuminates the lack of it.
The witnesses are also responsible for the shunning, how stupid they have to be to listen to these sob and do that to their own family members? I would never do that even when I was still indoctrinated.
I remember how distraight a woman in the congregation would get when these talks came up. She clearly missed her child so much. She would have to be helped out sometimes to her car. And i imagine this is my mother is during these talks. And i pity her for so many wasted years. Its gonna be two decades very soon.
JW organization counts on a strict and unbending take on shunning to force loved ones to “repent” - and the organization knows it would spell the end for loved ones returning if the shunning rules were ever relaxed.
If being “haughty” means doing like Jesus did and treating ALL those who have either slipped in some way or have not had the opportunity to hear the Kingdom message yet; then I’ll follow Jesus! The bonehead speaker at the beginning needs his butt kicked and his mouth gagged while one of us explains the scriptural truths about shunning! Any volunteers besides me?😁
I love how he says " trust in Jehovah and not lean upon your own understanding " and applying that to themselves. They say they are Jehovah, to listen to Jehovah is to listen to them... the one's who change the Bible to be in line with their dogma. After 140 plus years of false teachings, the governing body still insist on being praised and wielding power over millions of Jehovah's Witnesses and breaking up families. I left after myriads of red flags I hope more and more will see the half truth ways Jehovah's Witnesses .
I doubt it, he had to learn what his parents did from them most likely and by the time he may have thought about it, his brother Cain murdered him. JW takes scripture and imposes shit not even said.
Well the reason a man leaves his father and mother isn't to shun them according to the bible,it is to stay with his wife,but even then he won't shun them. Able got brain surgery from his brother and died a few minutes later.
Here's the kicker...these people are so mentally sick. I had a family member who had been disfellowshipped 4 times!!!! She looked at it as "loving discipline"! The last disfellowshipping...she was 60 years old...for fornication! Yes, a 60 year old woman continually getting disfellowshipped and she thinks it's cute, i guess.
The shuning tactics are evil. but it starts when the member is told to isolate themself from the rest of the world. because then members know that if they leave or are forced to leave. they are alone with out friends to back them up.
Wasn’t Abel killed by Cain while he was being patient? Where was Jehovah (I refuse to call God Jehovah because of my own reasons that I’m not going to go into) so where was Jehovah then? Letting a man that loved Jehovah over his own family get killed for it? That is my question? Moshi
It's a shame that this viewpoint of not wanting to let go of the people that are family or friend is looked at this way. I still feel that The Watchtowering Inferno has no qualms when they feel the slightest bit of criticism and feel like they are as powerful as they imagine themselves to be. It's entrapment and abuse at its worst.
The edits of this talk is because they deleted 2 shunning videos. Those videos are very shocking, because they show a sister shunning her elderly mother. Would be interesting to get more information about the deletion of these videos.
Very very sad that this brother is saying that a person who wants to actually show some care and consideration about someone else and go and visit them is haughty. Why would anyone want to go and listen to this at a convention?
The man this fellow is referring to has left 2000 years ago and no one knows when he’s coming back! My point is your family members are in the here and now, it’s hard to equate them versus a religious figure in a past time!😮😢 [T]hey cherry 🍒 pick anonymous scripture and Bastardize them for their agenda!😆🤔🧐😵💫🤫😠😉🙃😠😠😠 12:22
@jakelynbrook apparently Jesus is back, but he's not awakened to the fact yet, and he's not known as Jesus any more either, but goes by a different name. Why do I say this? Because there's a woman who has her own You Tube channel, and she claims to know Jesus and the True God of divine love personally, as she came from the same source as did Jesus. She only awoken to her prehuman existence about two years ago when her whole life was revealed, going back literally billions of years. She saw everything that had taken place here on earth, Jesus getting cruicified, the back story to how it all happened, Jehovah, how he's actually Satan, an evil entity that has gone by various names over the course of time, she saw and knows literally everything. She said also that Jesus has returned, but he's not awakened to his prehuman existence yet. To be able to awaken, these ones who originated with "Source" (as she calls the true God), needs to be in a good place emotionally, to let go of all their hangups, stresses in life and literally be in a peaceable mindset. This is what happened with her, and she says, when Sources offspring are sent to earth or various dimensions in the universe, they all go together. Mary Magdalene was another one of Sources offspring at the time Jesus was on earth, and in fact his spiritual counterpart and his sexual partner when he was on earth as well. You may find this extremely hard to accept or believe, but once you've listened to all her videos, (over 200 to date), there's absolutely no mistaking it, she really was sent from the true God of divine love. So much information she has already revealed to her viewers, it was why she was sent at this time because the bible is mostly manipulated by men who compiled the books together, leaving out others of importance, and changing major aspects of the bible to derive their own narrative, so she was sent here at this day and age to teach us the truth. It is in fact her 77th time and her very last time she will ever return here again. Once she has taught us everything we need to know, her time here on earth will be completed and she will return to Source, the true God who is in fact a feminine God entity, and creator and Mother of ALL life on earth as well as other planets in the universe.
I was baptised when I was 15, I left JW when I was 18. I am now 41, and my mum hasn't spoke to me since. The religion is absolutely shocking, and the frustration I have that my mum, who has missed out on 3 grandchildren, will not open her eyes is huge. It actually angers me. From the outside everyone can see the bullshit, yet there are so many 'intelligent' people who belive this and destroy relationships with family over the words and rilules set by this board of directors ... not God
Every Christian and non-Christian denomination and their family members believe that they are better, greater, intelligent, higher, and superior than the real and existing God, the Father of Jesus Christ.
The Christian god; he doesn't exist, and religion is a fraud. Every Christian denomination is as made up as the Jehovah's Witnesses. Every religion is a lie.
ETERNAL DEATHS for BELIEVERS of the ANTI-CHRISTS The Creator KNOWS that Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world, Atheists, and Agnostics who rejected his Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings and believe instead the teachings of the anti-Christs about "Armageddon", "heaven and hellfire", "Trinity", "rapture", and "reincarnation" are just bringing upon themselves their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever. ETERNAL LIFE for BELIEVERS of the CHRIST The Creator KNOWS that his favor and reward for all persons on earth who submit to the authority of his Christ and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" is ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of Religions, without liars, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, traitors, and murderers. Jesus Christ KNOWS that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths but all his believers and worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and many others will not remain as worthless dusts on earth forever, instead in the right and proper time, he will resurrect them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
A haughty spirit may want you to to contact your DF relative ?!!’ Not natural affection , then his shite about love for Jehovah is more than for family . I’ve been df 3 times , I’m lucky I’m strong and alive
Atheists, Agnostics, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world KNOW that they are - 1. NOT worshippers of the Creator, the God of Jesus Christ as wriiten in John 17: 3 2. NOT believers of the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written and recorded in Matthew 28: 18 ; Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26. The Creator and his Christ KNOW that they have nothing to do with the beliefs, traditions, teachings, doctrines, and claims of Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatic members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world. What will the CREATOR do for his worshippers and believers of his Christ? ANSWER - The Creator KNOWS that he will freely and willingly reward and honor all his worshippers and believers of his Christ with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without arrogant, cruel, and merciless persons, without liars, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, traitors, and murderers. What will JESUS CHRIST do for his believers and worshippers of his God, the Creator? ANSWER - All human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths but all worshippers of the Creator and believers of his Christ who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and many others will not remain as worthless dusts on earth forever, instead in the right and proper time, Jesus Christ KNOWS that he will freely and willingly resurrect them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
Lloyd, what of the illustration of the biblical prodigal son who left his father's house, struck out on his own, and lived a debauched life? How did gif father and family treat him? Did his father berate him for living a life contrary to what he was taught, and then shun him? Instead, he put together a grand feast to welcome him back and with open arms!
Lloyd, Not sure if you did a video on the two deleted shunning videos that came from this talk. This is why I suspect there are edits in these videos. Have you spoken about the two deleted videos and if not, do you have plans to do so? Thanks
@@jimmyb3158 I no longer follow other ex-JW content creators but if one of them has shown the footage in a certain video where it's not been tampered with too much feel free to send a link over Patreon 🙂
I asked my mom ones what sin a disassociated person was guilty off to be treated like a fornicator that was disfellowshipped. She couldn't comprehend what I was asking. If the sin of fornication or drunkenness was a green light for shunning, then what sinful conduct is the disassociated person guilty off. The interesting part is that if they answer its that he is shunning the congregation then the question will arise to rather or not shunning is a sinful action lol. Either way you will not get an answer...im still waiting
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I have a 20 year old son with autism who, as a result, is quite emotionally sensitive. He is being shunned by his Grandmother and Uncle (they have refused to even speak to him) as he has decided that he no longer wishes to go to meetings, has stopped his bible study and informed the elders that he does not believe that it is ‘The Truth’. He has never been baptised. I am so impressed by the courage he has shown, but what an evil organisation this is.
So brave, it must be so hard with autism. So his parents have left JWs but not his grandparents? Have the grandparents shunned their own children too? But just so sick and cruel to even shun someone with a disability.
It's probably bc he's figured out that the JW WT is evil as hell
Autisti nesnesou pokrytectví. Poznají falešné lidi.
I,ve a daughter with high funcional autism ...and she woke up here thanks to Lloyd! She was very indoctrinated. But now...is amazing. Never baptized. ( she hates shunning and disfellowshipping! )
Give your son all my Love! People with autism are very sensitive . and intelligent! And they HATE liies and liars .
This whole organization needs to be shut down!
If the CA cases keep coming, it might push them to bankruptcy.
I've been praying for that everyday, in Jesus name, shut them down!!!
Jesus might actually answer that prayer :)@@markusbrauns4274
@@markusbrauns4274 Yessss!!!
If that happens I will literally BURST INTO TEARS OF JOY
My brother is an elder who spent 12 years in bethel. My sister is defellowshiped for something she didnt do and has been fighting for 8 years to get back in. I come from a 3rd generation jehovah's witness family. I just don't understand why im the only one who can see the horrific organization for what it is and it's practices. Shunning is inhumane. I mean how much cognitive dissonance does a person need to treat they're loved ones in such a disposable way? I'm loney and just want to reach out to those who have or are experiencing similar situations. I grew up very isolated and my social skills are stunted. My love goes out to everyone who has suffered through this. Thank you Lloyd for what you do, sometimes i cry, I'm thankful.
I support you my friend. This is stupid cruel behavior and a rule that makes people sociophobes. If I wasn't an introvert, it would hurt me a lot.
I support you too! Growing up JW, I saw my own relatives shunned. And then my own parents shunned me. It is an awful feeling. Please know you are worth it, as are any and everyone experiencing it.
Yes, I grew up the same. It was very lonely and depressing.
I'm so sorry you are going through this
Its done because its a very effective control mechanism and consequently people's minds are switched off as to rational and critical thought to the extent they will virtually do whatever the leaders say. They dont question it because they know where the consequences can and do lead. Its a very circular mechanism of people control. The thinking is I dont or wont argue because I could get shunned so I dont argue. If they tell me I need to shun someone I have known for 30 yrs , I will do so and pretend they dont exist and totally ignore them, no talking, no communication, no nothing ( except the elders can talk to them because they are special) and then maybe later if and when the elders decide to re-instate the hapless JW ( if he chooses to remain) then we all pretend that we really do love them and start talking to them again like nothing happened. Very much like in 1984.
Although I have not watched this video, the title alone speaks for itself. Those who refuse to shun are seen as haughty while in reality the opposite is true. They must need to triple down on this fallacy.
If you’re a JW,…no one, and I mean NO ONE, has any right to tell you to cut off association with a family member. Especially a bunch of guys in suits sitting around a board room overlooking a lake. C’mon, wake TFU.
Great comment, to add to your point, can you imagine a minister or pastor or reverend, telling a mother, ya know, the one who carried you in her womb for 9 months, that she can't talk or spend time with her own flesh and blood, only the cult of Watchtower, thinks this makes sense.
@@markusbrauns4274
This cult is so evil,That they have been so cunning to hide and preach this crime under the very noses of those secular authorities who suppose to stop this kind of criminal activities .So cunning indeed that they received governments hand outs as if they deserve a reward for their crazy evil doctrines in which shunning is just but one them.
The apostle Paul never said to shun your “family members”. The borg goes beyond the things that are written.
But see also Luke 14:26, and Matthew 10:37.
Not exactly a million miles, away from that idea, those verses.@@skippy1012
Emotional blackmailing. It's like forcing somebody to stay in the Org no matter what. No religion and no God can force me to shun my own children. What's wrong with those pple? Never ever... That's not the love they say comes from gmGod. It is evil.
Yeah how could anyone shun their children, that's pure evil and specially as it isn't even in the Bible, just a way for them to manipulate and scare people to behave and from never leaving their cult in fear of losing their family (even if they don't believe anymore these sick, evil JW leaders want control over them).
Exactly. They just want you to stay!! It’s a numbers game. The Bible never said to shun family members. The borg goes beyond the things that are written.
As a teenager I told an elder "I'll never join this Org, no imperfect man is EVER going to tell me I am to shun my mother. I don't care she has killed someone" let alone "obey you" and your instructions as a fellow imperfect man. I was quickly labeled "bad association"....
That’s awful.
Another great rebuttal, Lloyd. Makes me sick to my stomach to acknowledge that I actually participated in shunning my own son for 3 months before I woke the hell up and started my exit out of the cult! All I did was cry all the time, I just couldn’t do it. It took my elder husband and youngest son longer to wake up and get out, but thankfully we’re now all out, all disassociated and we see each other all the time and never been happier as a family. ❤
That's what I call, "Making Family Life Happy"
Bless you all! I wish all families were like yours and that nobody got “shunned” by theirs. I wish you and your family many years of happiness actually living now. Enjoying all the holidays and birthdays. Celebrate you and eachother🎉
This is the talk that prompted my parents to invite me over their house for a reason that they would not disclose over the phone, then to sit me down to have a lengthy conversation where they asked where “my head is at” with the world and the organization. I made my case, backed it up with evidence, and when it was clear to them that I have no intention of returning, they proceeded to tell me that they are tightening up with the shunning and contact is only for emergencies. So yeah, almost 10 years after I got expelled, I’ve had to say bye to my parents for the second time. Screw this family-destroying religion.
Hell bent on continuing to break up families, between the believers and unbelievers
And when he says “Jehovah and Jesus” he means “Organization and Governing Body.” He’s therefore inadvertently saying, “You must love the organization and the Governing Body more than anybody else.”
Switch off humanity..... my father did with my sister. She was 16 and not baptized, she refused to go to the KH and he kicked her out. He did and said stuff I will not repeat without her consent. He shunned her and as a result he never got to see his own grandchildren because of his abject obedience to this cult. They don't want free thought or knowledge of any kind except their supposed truth.
Did Abel shun his family? The power of suggestion used by the JWs is amazing.
I can no longer either see or hear these "helpers" from that GB. Getting sick! I fast forward and just listen to you Lloyd. It is much more agreeable and reasonable. Shunning is cruel..inhuman and not scriptural. End of Story. Thank you Lloyd
Thank you. This teaching is the main reason that I am a PIMO
I became a mom for the first time in 2020, and NOTHING could make me treat my child like they don’t exist!
It's not you who will mistreat your children....it's not the Creator and his Christ who will mistreat your children...
But
what will you do if Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of all Religions mistreat your children like they don't exist?
I’m Christian just not a JW . I’m trained as a scientist so I see this among fundies . Atheists don’t act like that ! They don’t abuse people over religion . They will advise you to watch out for the exploitation and manipulation done by a lot of religions . JWs are as notorious as Scientology for this type of exploitation and manipulation .
That's how I felt before I even became a dad. Good on you ❤
It's not just disfellowshipped ones who are shunned
No...every JW who read the Bible for themselves ...or mentioned Jesus ..and NOT the Org.are shunned now. I laught about this famous fear mongering " go bags" to my Pimi son....and he is shunning me now. It,s war really...Jw who are old and have some knowledge....against the young new JW who only worship and obey...the new Gods......the GB. It,s amazing. One more reason to get on with fading and get out from this cult. 😢
Dissociated ones like myself, who voluntarily left.
@@CeceTvCeceTv ..ty, kteří odešli sami, nenávidí mnohem víc...
Did I miss something ? When he read Proverbs, I did not hear the word shun or shunning or disassociating. I think it was saying to trust in God instead of some old guys that are false prophets
I have noticed too that they constantly use Bible verses that have nothing to do with what they talk about or that they leave out half of the verse because it doesn't for with the propaganda they are trying to spread, it's so weird and fake. Their religion makes no sense.
Just this teaching is enough to leave JW organization.
"normal family relationships continue"...we don't shun.." "only spiritual relationships are affected." RIIIGHT!
Normal isn’t possible with their doomsday mindset. Their supremacist ideology overshadows all thoughts and behavior
Listening to the garbage they spout makes me sick. I actually feel sorry for the sad, bereft people who have been caught up in this mind-numbing dogma.
Now that little children are being encouraged to be baptized, it will be a paradoxical situation enfolding: what...the child must get shunned for borrowing a “worldly” toy and enjoying playing with it? This is going to get so much more abusive if WT is not held accountable. This must stop legally.
Sab but true
The law doesn't meddle in religious doctrine
JW knows this that's why they double down at every turn
Wow just wow…they are truly disgusting.
Great job as always, lloyd. I am preparing myself tô this convention by antecipate all this s**t tô help my wife who is waking up, pari passu. Greetings from Brasil
Whats so disturbing about this policy is the belief that the individual who leaves may somehow "see the error of their ways" and return to the cult. It doesnt aknowledge the glaring reality that individuals leave because they DONT want to follow this spiritual path anymore. So why would anyone want to commit emotional blackmail to try to force them back into a religion they dont want?
Yes!!!
IKR what error are they supposed to have done? No longer believing-it’s ridiculous!
@@junkjournaljunkie Odchází naopak hodně lidí, protože věří Bohu. Nechtějí ho uctívat takovým stupidním a nelidským způsobem, jako jim to nutí dělat ta odpadlá organizace. Odchází z lásky a úcty k Bohu.
@@geraniumroseum yes I agree! Except I no longer believe in God at all. No religion will convince me there is a God. My reasoning is this: if there was a God why doesn’t he stop wars, child abuse, cancer, hunger, homelessness OR why doesn’t he do anything? If I could stop any of those things I would, he can (supposedly do anything) and doesn’t!
My conclusion then is he doesn’t exist. Take care 😉
Words fail me. This is so beyond vile I can't say anything
So scared of losing more members. Don't talk to people who woke up or you might too! Lol. My mom finally got out but now her own daughters aren't talking to her (or to me either).
Most disfellowshipped witnesses who apply for reinstatement do so to get their family back, and rightly so. Elders and the society know this and at least approve if not encourage it. But in that case Jesus statement at Math 10:37, (five minutes in) surely condemns such ones for putting family before him, hence not being worthy of him. As I never "left Jehovah," Jesus, or even the congregation, but was punished for refusing to repent for so-called sins I never committed, the organisation has more to answer for than I do and no doubt tens of thousands like me.
I was being modest over the number!!@@WakeingUp
THIS TALK CAN BE A GOOD SIGN THAT MANY JWs ARE SAYING SCREW YOUR SHUNNING...I'M SPEAKING TO MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS!!!
Thank you for this spot on critique Lloyd. Wow, just wow!
Haughty is claiming to be the voice of Jesus! Having the nerve to say that Jehovah God and Jesus Christ trust them!
Great video Llyod. I like the point about the public being invited. Like who would sit through that?😂
What an unchristian, and cruel thing to tell people to do to family members such as a brother, father, mother or sister who is in need of spiritual help.
I will spend the rest of my life making it up to my dear daughter. I still feel so sad that I did not go to her wedding in October 2010.
I love that comment during the
"Royal commission" deal ...
"We don't disfellowship. ...
They disfellowship themselves" ...
Ya, ok 😂😂
"that's haughty thinking'..says the body of old dudes in NY that say they're God's Mouthpiece....pot/kettle.
I’m addicted to these videos.
Inciting hate and self- righteous judgemental idiots is what this Organization is about, needs closing down with immediate effect!
Men trying to rule men to his demise.
JW recently lost their status as a religion in Norway because of the shunning policy. This talk certainly won't help their case. He's doubling down on uncle Tonys statement. "We're certainly not going to do that".
I think they will change the policy sooner or later, at least on paper, if they lose their tax exemption in more countries.
And losing their tax exemption is "the ticket".
Money 💰(and the fear of losing it) is the only change motivator for the WT.
Thanks Lloyd. I can see you are as frustrated with this rhetoric as I am. I loved your podcast on debunking shunning from what the bible says. It was excellent. They wouldnt know self help if it smacked them in the face, apparently. You are haughty if you love your family member who is out? It is so very sad and disgusting to listen to how they teach people to love.
God will deal with them for their wicked hypocrisy..Remember He's not one to be mocked!..I wouldn't want to be them when they cry out to our Lord Jesus Christ.."Lord!Lord!"😳
The speaker says they "may" come back. The reality is that they may not come back. I waited 35 years for my cousin to return. His mother was on her deathbed and he decided to return. Now he has so many health issues that he is a fraction of what he used to be. This practice is very Pharisaical in nature.
I have too big of a heart to cut people off.❤
Said before will say again what a EVIL religion...in the Bible wasn't there something about loving everyone, don't tell that shunning is lovable act!
I love how they created this whole backstory about Abel as if they were there spying on him 😂
I wonder if JWs will help other than their own in the horrific Maui fires disaster? Will they stop shunning and go to the aid of all?
Obviously a rhetorical question!
The stretch from Abel to taking to their son for instance is hilarious
This is purely evil.. evil evil evil 🙈
I was df’d a few years ago. And I was shocked at how I was treated by people claiming to love and follow Jesus
I think the GB really means, love us more than anyone else, and obey us
Hearing them say "We love you", is so grating. It's just an exercise in self aggrandizement.
The original video is on RUclips.
Wow Lloyd . Sitting here crying
What’s “haughty” is equating waiting on Jehovah and supporting decisions of men.
Good point re your father Lloyd. He's flogging a dead horse if he thinks this'll bring you back in.
The Witnesses say come back to Jehovah; this is the epitome of haughtiness to even place yourself on equal footing to the point of controlling others, using the most high's creator's powerful name. Holy is his name and his son.
To be clear, they are not talking about avoiding getting caught up in the misdeeds of others, perhaps members of our own family.
They are mandating that members cut off all contact/interaction with them.
I watch my middle daughter suffer because her mother, sister and all remaining members of the family that are JW’s have cut her (and by extension her husband and children) off. She was never disfellowshipped, she simply left and has grown up to be a great daughter/wife/mother and also a great friend to many others.
To double down on a wretched shunning policy does not speak to their Godly faith, it illuminates the lack of it.
Organizace nenávidí ty, kteří odešli ze svojí vůle, víc než ty, které vyloučili. Důvod je jasný...
Hello 🤗
I'm shunned by my mother and brother.
Is very sad and painful as I know.
I hope that someday their eyes will be open.
Hugs from Albania.
Be patience just make sure you send us your money stocks houses fools our leaders need your money
Well spoken again Lloyd! I couldn`t have said it better myself, but I would have said it all the same ! :-)
My daughter still talks to me although I’m disassociated and she knows my strong apostate views
The witnesses are also responsible for the shunning, how stupid they have to be to listen to these sob and do that to their own family members? I would never do that even when I was still indoctrinated.
Wanting to maintain a relationship with your loved ones is "haughty"? I'd hate to see this Convention speaker's definition of "humble".
Being poor lol manipulating you by giving them are your time, money and resources.
As Christian's ✝️ we are Commanded to Love ❤️🕊️🙌
I remember how distraight a woman in the congregation would get when these talks came up. She clearly missed her child so much. She would have to be helped out sometimes to her car.
And i imagine this is my mother is during these talks. And i pity her for so many wasted years. Its gonna be two decades very soon.
Respect my freewill
JW organization counts on a strict and unbending take on shunning to force loved ones to “repent” - and the organization knows it would spell the end for loved ones returning if the shunning rules were ever relaxed.
Hopefully Warwick PIMO can get us the uncut version!
If being “haughty” means doing like Jesus did and treating ALL those who have either slipped in some way or have not had the opportunity to hear the Kingdom message yet; then I’ll follow Jesus! The bonehead speaker at the beginning needs his butt kicked and his mouth gagged while one of us explains the scriptural truths about shunning! Any volunteers besides me?😁
They are getting very evil
I love how he says " trust in Jehovah and not lean upon your own understanding " and applying that to themselves. They say they are Jehovah, to listen to Jehovah is to listen to them... the one's who change the Bible to be in line with their dogma. After 140 plus years of false teachings, the governing body still insist on being praised and wielding power over millions of Jehovah's Witnesses and breaking up families. I left after myriads of red flags I hope more and more will see the half truth ways Jehovah's Witnesses .
Did Able shun his mom Eve and dad Adam?
Excellent question!!
I doubt it, he had to learn what his parents did from them most likely and by the time he may have thought about it, his brother Cain murdered him. JW takes scripture and imposes shit not even said.
Well the reason a man leaves his father and mother isn't to shun them according to the bible,it is to stay with his wife,but even then he won't shun them. Able got brain surgery from his brother and died a few minutes later.
Here's the kicker...these people are so mentally sick. I had a family member who had been disfellowshipped 4 times!!!! She looked at it as "loving discipline"! The last disfellowshipping...she was 60 years old...for fornication! Yes, a 60 year old woman continually getting disfellowshipped and she thinks it's cute, i guess.
Lol, is that the oldest age a person's been disfellowshipped for fornication? Good on her 😅
@Ballykeith Lolllll!!! Hell...MANY are in their 60s and 70s! Especially the men!
To those of you who may be affected by hateful asshats such as this, I'm sorry. I hope your family members ignore him
Lloyd where is this in the Bible !!! Where did Jehovah or Jesus say do not talk to you’re family . I’m incensed
What makes it all the more sickening is that when they mention "Jehovah and Jesus", we all know they mean the cult.
No natural affection 🤔
Definition of haughty: arrogantly superior and disdainful, hhhhmmmm coincidence?
Sacrifice your loved ones like Abraham sacrificed his child should have been the name of the talk🤣
The shuning tactics are evil. but it starts when the member is told to isolate themself from the rest of the world. because then members know that if they leave or are forced to leave. they are alone with out friends to back them up.
They don't practice what they preach. They practice what the Watch Tower tells them.
Yeah !.. i know whose haughty .. it's these Org. speakers..Shallow False love they have..
Wasn’t Abel killed by Cain while he was being patient? Where was Jehovah (I refuse to call God Jehovah because of my own reasons that I’m not going to go into) so where was Jehovah then? Letting a man that loved Jehovah over his own family get killed for it? That is my question?
Moshi
It's a shame that this viewpoint of not wanting to let go of the people that are family or friend is looked at this way. I still feel that The Watchtowering Inferno has no qualms when they feel the slightest bit of criticism and feel like they are as powerful as they imagine themselves to be. It's entrapment and abuse at its worst.
The edits of this talk is because they deleted 2 shunning videos.
Those videos are very shocking, because they show a sister shunning her elderly mother.
Would be interesting to get more information about the deletion of these videos.
Very very sad that this brother is saying that a person who wants to actually show some care and consideration about someone else and go and visit them is haughty. Why would anyone want to go and listen to this at a convention?
The man this fellow is referring to has left 2000 years ago and no one knows when he’s coming back! My point is your family members are in the here and now, it’s hard to equate them versus a religious figure in a past time!😮😢 [T]hey cherry 🍒 pick anonymous scripture and Bastardize them for their agenda!😆🤔🧐😵💫🤫😠😉🙃😠😠😠 12:22
What if he's already back and no one knows
@@morningglory9288 Yes 👍 it’s possible.
@jakelynbrook apparently Jesus is back, but he's not awakened to the fact yet, and he's not known as Jesus any more either, but goes by a different name. Why do I say this? Because there's a woman who has her own You Tube channel, and she claims to know Jesus and the True God of divine love personally, as she came from the same source as did Jesus. She only awoken to her prehuman existence about two years ago when her whole life was revealed, going back literally billions of years. She saw everything that had taken place here on earth, Jesus getting cruicified, the back story to how it all happened, Jehovah, how he's actually Satan, an evil entity that has gone by various names over the course of time, she saw and knows literally everything. She said also that Jesus has returned, but he's not awakened to his prehuman existence yet. To be able to awaken, these ones who originated with "Source" (as she calls the true God), needs to be in a good place emotionally, to let go of all their hangups, stresses in life and literally be in a peaceable mindset. This is what happened with her, and she says, when Sources offspring are sent to earth or various dimensions in the universe, they all go together. Mary Magdalene was another one of Sources offspring at the time Jesus was on earth, and in fact his spiritual counterpart and his sexual partner when he was on earth as well.
You may find this extremely hard to accept or believe, but once you've listened to all her videos, (over 200 to date), there's absolutely no mistaking it, she really was sent from the true God of divine love. So much information she has already revealed to her viewers, it was why she was sent at this time because the bible is mostly manipulated by men who compiled the books together, leaving out others of importance, and changing major aspects of the bible to derive their own narrative, so she was sent here at this day and age to teach us the truth. It is in fact her 77th time and her very last time she will ever return here again. Once she has taught us everything we need to know, her time here on earth will be completed and she will return to Source, the true God who is in fact a feminine God entity, and creator and Mother of ALL life on earth as well as other planets in the universe.
What's new ? They have said this same thing for over 50 years
I was baptised when I was 15, I left JW when I was 18. I am now 41, and my mum hasn't spoke to me since. The religion is absolutely shocking, and the frustration I have that my mum, who has missed out on 3 grandchildren, will not open her eyes is huge. It actually angers me. From the outside everyone can see the bullshit, yet there are so many 'intelligent' people who belive this and destroy relationships with family over the words and rilules set by this board of directors ... not God
at 6 years old, was my last birthday ever acknowledged , 3 days a week, putting on dresses, paranoia, watching child molesters go free, seen it all!
🎉Every Christian denomination believes that their made up God is more important than family members.
Every Christian and non-Christian denomination and their family members believe that they are better, greater, intelligent, higher, and superior than the real and existing God, the Father of Jesus Christ.
Christianity is a scam and a pyramid scheme. It scams people into putting a made up man in the sky above their own families.
@@dseeley2544Who is the made-up man in the sky?
The Christian god; he doesn't exist, and religion is a fraud. Every Christian denomination is as made up as the Jehovah's Witnesses. Every religion is a lie.
ETERNAL DEATHS for BELIEVERS of the ANTI-CHRISTS
The Creator KNOWS
that Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world, Atheists, and Agnostics who rejected his Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings and believe instead the teachings of the anti-Christs about "Armageddon", "heaven and hellfire", "Trinity", "rapture", and "reincarnation" are just bringing upon themselves their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever.
ETERNAL LIFE for BELIEVERS of the CHRIST
The Creator KNOWS
that his favor and reward for all persons on earth who submit to the authority of his Christ and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" is ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of Religions, without liars, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, traitors, and murderers.
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths but all his believers and worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and many others will not remain as worthless dusts on earth forever, instead in the right and proper time,
he will resurrect them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
Fuck I knew it. This is the reason my mom just switched up on me for no reason!!
A haughty spirit may want you to to contact your DF relative ?!!’ Not natural affection , then his shite about love for Jehovah is more than for family . I’ve been df 3 times , I’m lucky I’m strong and alive
In other words, disregard Psalms 146:3 and Jeremiah 17:5 and believe the 8 men in Warwick and Wakill.
Atheists, Agnostics, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world KNOW
that they are -
1. NOT worshippers of the Creator, the God of Jesus Christ as wriiten in John 17: 3
2. NOT believers of the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written and recorded in Matthew 28: 18 ; Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26.
The Creator and his Christ KNOW
that they have nothing to do with the beliefs, traditions, teachings, doctrines, and claims of Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatic members of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world.
What will the CREATOR do for his worshippers and believers of his Christ?
ANSWER -
The Creator KNOWS
that he will freely and willingly reward and honor all his worshippers and believers of his Christ with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without arrogant, cruel, and merciless persons, without liars, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, traitors, and murderers.
What will JESUS CHRIST do for his believers and worshippers of his God, the Creator?
ANSWER -
All human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths but all worshippers of the Creator and believers of his Christ who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and many others will not remain as worthless dusts on earth forever, instead in the right and proper time,
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that he will freely and willingly resurrect them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
@@jaflenbond7854Hrajete si na soudce lidí. To nesmí dělat žádný člověk. Vystavujete se velkému nebezpečí.
@@geraniumroseumtell me something about your own beliefs stand, opinions, and viewpoints about Jesus Christ and his God and Father in english
Lloyd, what of the illustration of the biblical prodigal son who left his father's house, struck out on his own, and lived a debauched life? How did gif father and family treat him? Did his father berate him for living a life contrary to what he was taught, and then shun him? Instead, he put together a grand feast to welcome him back and with open arms!
Lloyd, Not sure if you did a video on the two deleted shunning videos that came from this talk. This is why I suspect there are edits in these videos. Have you spoken about the two deleted videos and if not, do you have plans to do so? Thanks
Hi jimmy! If I get copies of them that I can show on the channel, I will definitely be commenting on them 🙂
@@LloydEvans I would love to help you get these, how are other activists getting these?
@@jimmyb3158 I no longer follow other ex-JW content creators but if one of them has shown the footage in a certain video where it's not been tampered with too much feel free to send a link over Patreon 🙂
4:57 "He who has greater affection for Mother or Father than me, is not worthy of me."
Hey Jesus. 😡🖕
So now Abell stopped talking to his father. They make up garbage teachings
I asked my mom ones what sin a disassociated person was guilty off to be treated like a fornicator that was disfellowshipped. She couldn't comprehend what I was asking. If the sin of fornication or drunkenness was a green light for shunning, then what sinful conduct is the disassociated person guilty off. The interesting part is that if they answer its that he is shunning the congregation then the question will arise to rather or not shunning is a sinful action lol. Either way you will not get an answer...im still waiting
What % of witnesses are disfelloweshipped? And what % of their talks are reminding their followers to shun and abandon?