Final Fantasy 7 Remake Mythology Roundtable: Interview with John Eric Bentley (Barret)

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
  • We have a roundtable discussion with John Eric Bentley (The Voice of Barret). Sleepezi. The Night Sky Prince. MJ Gallagher.
    Information on our guests below:
    Night Sky Prince
    Twitter: @NightSkyPrince_
    RUclips: / thenightskyprince
    Twitch: / thenightskyprince
    M.J. Gallagher
    Twitter: @FFVIINovels
    Sleepezi
    Twitter: @Sleepezi_DMs
    RUclips: / sleepezi
    Twitch: / sleepezi
  • ИгрыИгры

Комментарии • 64

  • @TheNightSkyPrince
    @TheNightSkyPrince 3 года назад +39

    It was a pleasure being on here with my kings!

  • @laith9989
    @laith9989 3 года назад +30

    I’m not gonna lie, Barret definitely won the remake for me in terms of best character development

  • @Renegated27
    @Renegated27 3 года назад +20

    God I loved this, man!!! Barret’s VA is such a wise & informed person. Man everything that he said relates 100% to what I took from the OG FF. he’s a great man and I’m so glad u guys had this conversation! Well done Clarke

  • @Scottakovic
    @Scottakovic 3 года назад +7

    Not that award show are necessarily representive of who truly deserves praise, I was so disappointed to see that John Eric Bentley was not nominated for best performance. His voice acting at the beginning of Chapter 13 alone is worthy of an award.

  • @off-meta-michael
    @off-meta-michael 3 года назад +10

    This is so dope. I love hearing how the VA's understand their character. I've played through OG ff7 countless times and the remake about 4 times. John gets it man.

  • @NatoShinobi
    @NatoShinobi 3 года назад +11

    Omg. He is Barret. Talking about history like that !

  • @CryptJo
    @CryptJo 3 года назад +6

    This was absolutely fantastic!! What a great conversation between you all - so interesting and so full of heart. I watched this first thing on a Monday morning and it has lifted my spirits like nothing else to hear everyone talk so passionately. On a personal note, I loved that Mr Bentley spoke so highly of his visit to Scotland! And I loved Mr Gallagher’s “promotion” of our history. Thank you very much for sharing such a wonderful conversation. 💜 (Also great to hear a wee shout out to Kutakuma at the end, there!!)

  • @J1090-k1e
    @J1090-k1e 3 года назад +10

    I do like this but there isn’t as much talk on how FF7R and Norse mythology are in entwined. John did talk about his interests on mythology, opening holes for so many discussions points to have a deeper dive into Mythology in general. When he did it, it didn’t seem to have been followed up by the rest of the cast. I’m about an hour in, and like I said, enjoying it, but it would have been great to have a bigger discussion on FF7 and Norse mythology. Is there more content for discussions such as that?
    Side note: John comes across as an incredibly open, educated, down to earth guy. I only knew him as Barett but this has provided insight to who he is as a human. Great stuff for the people such as me who only knew him as Barett.

    • @m.j.gallagher6756
      @m.j.gallagher6756 3 года назад +3

      This focus of the discussion changed after our initial opening. We ran out of time to discuss FF7 mythology in full, so we did a second cast that goes pretty in-depth into that subject. This will be posted in coming days.

    • @J1090-k1e
      @J1090-k1e 3 года назад +1

      @@m.j.gallagher6756 Awesome. Appreciate the work all you do.

    • @m.j.gallagher6756
      @m.j.gallagher6756 3 года назад +1

      @@J1090-k1e my pleasure. Thank you for the support!

  • @barretwallace3349
    @barretwallace3349 3 года назад +5

    I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for John Eric Bentley. Thanks for your performance you magnificent Sir.

  • @LovesDarkness
    @LovesDarkness 3 года назад +5

    Amazing video...I enjoyed it so much. Eric truly is a treasure! I hope I get to see him one day.

  • @sergevolosin9511
    @sergevolosin9511 3 года назад +6

    This was such an interesting and wholesome podcast to watch. Saddens me even more now that John wasn't nominated by TGA for best voice acting cuz he deserves the world

    • @FVD
      @FVD 3 года назад

      Yeah, those gaming media fools were deliberately shilling for The Last of Us 2 which was sickening!

  • @PetarBladeStrok
    @PetarBladeStrok 3 года назад +11

    Oh my god! Mr. Bentley is here!

  • @mikev8746
    @mikev8746 3 года назад +4

    Barret was also my favorite character in the remake and the way he was portrayed. And i'm like the least 'woke' person out there lol. I think he really gave life and energy to the rest of the cast and rounded them out if you will.

  • @OmegaKatanaXIII
    @OmegaKatanaXIII 3 года назад +6

    Woah how the hell you got Bentley on your stream in the first place. Is pretty amazing that you got him and the nightskyprince on the stream.

  • @danielmales123
    @danielmales123 3 года назад +6

    The casting for ff7 remake is very impressive and barret out did himself

  • @tintinthomas1674
    @tintinthomas1674 3 года назад +5

    WOAH! This is too cool. My mind is melting.

  • @J1090-k1e
    @J1090-k1e 3 года назад +7

    MOORREEEEE!!!
    MOOORRREEEEEEE!!!!!!
    MOOORRRREEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

  • @cavsfightingroom3692
    @cavsfightingroom3692 3 года назад +4

    I can't believe they didn't mentioned god of war for ps4 with all this mythology talk or asked him, if he played that. I'm dying to know

  • @jamesmartin2740
    @jamesmartin2740 3 года назад +1

    John Bentley's performance for Barret was mind blowing. Absolutely impeccable and perfect.

  • @frederickmueller8687
    @frederickmueller8687 3 года назад

    Being in Europe is a very different experience. Traveling is quite important. Not being in your own culture is a transformative experience.
    The Empire State Building caused plenty of people to die, but the prospect of building pyramids and the toll of human life they exacted are quite similar. The numbers don’t add up because technology isn’t the same, but the motivations are.
    John is spitting my truth talking about ecology.

  • @kaedhenbharathae-lane4234
    @kaedhenbharathae-lane4234 3 года назад +2

    Damn he just slammed Xbox 😂

  • @captainkaiii
    @captainkaiii 3 года назад +1

    Dude...John's voice acting completely brought Barrett to life in remake. He's absolutely incredible. Before he steps into the portal towards the end of the game and he says to Marlene "daddy's coming home real soon", I just cry like a baby. Every damn time.

  • @frederickmueller8687
    @frederickmueller8687 3 года назад

    If it’s a game I want to play, I’ll buy it twice. I bought Remake twice so I could have a copy that a bill can’t be taken from me.

  • @frederickmueller8687
    @frederickmueller8687 3 года назад

    Nomura fought against Barrett dying, but Nomura is the face of evil. 🙄🙄🤮

  • @Renegated27
    @Renegated27 3 года назад +3

    Niceeeeee!!!! Awesome!

  • @frederickmueller8687
    @frederickmueller8687 3 года назад

    The politics of FF7 are ever present. It’s Cloud’s story, but it’s very much a commentary on society.

  • @dariyanvalentine3564
    @dariyanvalentine3564 3 года назад +3

    you guys should have invited max as well.

    • @schrodingersbabyseal
      @schrodingersbabyseal  3 года назад +2

      You know... he's always welcome. If you can get us connected... that would be great!

  • @fattmusiek5452
    @fattmusiek5452 3 года назад +3

    appears to be taken down. maybe the theories are too lit

  • @Killer_Kris7
    @Killer_Kris7 3 года назад +3

    Favorite VA (Remake): John Eric Bentley (Barret Wallace)
    Least Favorite VA (Remake): Tyler Hoechlin (Sephiroth)

    • @valkyrion_ex1173
      @valkyrion_ex1173 3 года назад

      You really liked Sephiroth's VA less than Zack's?

    • @schrodingersbabyseal
      @schrodingersbabyseal  3 года назад +4

      I know a lot of people were very attached to George Newbern. And I don’t blame them, he was great in AC (and just a legend in general). If I’m being honest though, by the time CC rolled around, the graininess of his voice no longer matched the age of Sephiroth, and that was more than a decade ago.
      I actually really liked Hoechlin’s performance in Remake. He seems to really match the complete characterization of Sephiroth including the mysterious elements around him.
      I think part of the reason is that I never got too attached to the English VA’s in AC and CC since I experienced them in Japanese first.

    • @Killer_Kris7
      @Killer_Kris7 3 года назад

      @@schrodingersbabyseal yeah but he is actually smarter and more advanced than his age, he is a lot smarter and more mature so the deep voice in your 20s thing makes sense. Hoechlin doesn't really have a deep voice and it shows

    • @Killer_Kris7
      @Killer_Kris7 3 года назад

      @@valkyrion_ex1173 yeah

    • @schrodingersbabyseal
      @schrodingersbabyseal  3 года назад +3

      @@Killer_Kris7 maybe I just am not wired to associate a ‘deep’ voice with age, wisdom or power. To me Hoechlin conveys all the menace and confidence that Sephiroth is supposed to. I just thought it was a really good match, and I’m looking forward to more.

  • @frederickmueller8687
    @frederickmueller8687 3 года назад

    John Bentley gets me.

  • @the7thseven873
    @the7thseven873 3 года назад +1

    Barret😎✨💯

  • @bumbo_stiltskin
    @bumbo_stiltskin 3 года назад +1

    NSP, Sleepezi, BabySeal, Barret, AND Cait Sith?? Greatest ff7 combo ever

    • @m.j.gallagher6756
      @m.j.gallagher6756 3 года назад +1

      You calling me a pussy!?!?!

    • @bumbo_stiltskin
      @bumbo_stiltskin 3 года назад +1

      @@m.j.gallagher6756 😂😂😂 Just love your accent and want to hear you yell at Yuffie "Lassy, shut your gob!, Crikey, lass! Shut yer mooth!"

    • @bumbo_stiltskin
      @bumbo_stiltskin 3 года назад +1

      For real though, loved this group combo. Great chat

  • @CausalityUsurper
    @CausalityUsurper 3 года назад

    Nice fellas. Mans a cool cat for sure.

  • @fcv1967
    @fcv1967 3 года назад

    Original FF7 didn't have the tech to make it as immersive as FF7R. FF7R made me more attached to the characters. Only emotional moment in FF7 was Cosmo Canyon and Red's father.

  • @vincentgraymore
    @vincentgraymore 3 года назад +2

    This might be a hated comment. Perhaps because I am not a father nor because I can understand the social context but for me, Cloud stole the show but that is what I wanted and expected. Aerith might have if they toned down the "mystic" aspect/******** but I am also not a "queen" or shipping preacher so to me persons are more important than gender in a story. Even if remake changed what it changed in aspect to all characters (where in my opinion Tifa is the most OG FF VII character) I am biased towards liking Cloud (but the "true Cloud" not "a" Cloud). John Eric Bentley is a very nice guy, I have seen him with Brianna White and on Final FanTV and I am impressed. He plays Barret well even if I do not agree with certain changes to his character because there are some that I think are very detrimental for FF VII. I wish him well in his career.
    This video was not very much on topic >_

    • @schrodingersbabyseal
      @schrodingersbabyseal  3 года назад +1

      I don’t think you’re going to get much argument that Cloud was incredible in Remake, however:
      1. It’s ‘his’ show, so one doesn’t generally ‘steal their own show’...
      2. His character arc really hasn’t come to fruition yet, we’ll really see what cloud becomes after ‘the incident’.
      I am very curious to hear what ‘changes’ to Barret’s character were made, and how they were detrimental to Final Fantasy VII, care to expand on this?
      This half of the interview did veer off topic, the second half (which will be releasing within the next couple days) is PURE mythology/lore talk and it’s almost 3 hours long, so look forward to that.

    • @vincentgraymore
      @vincentgraymore 3 года назад

      ​@@schrodingersbabysealI am sure I do not have arguments that you have not heard before from others. I also argue from a bitter side as to how I view the remake and I am not blind to that myself but it is a bias.
      1. I consider FF VII (& AC) to be Clouds story but for some reason, there are a lot of people out there that even want Cloud to die in the remake. I have seen many people argue that Cloud is "just one of the gang" while I strongly disagree with that statement. I can understand wanting more of a personal favorite character going forward in the remake but dismissing or adding a swap function that can remove Cloud from all fights is something I would consider bad but many people do not seem to look at FF VII as Clouds show. You also have a major audience caring more about the women because well... you know why. In general, I mean that Cloud just outperformed the others :/ was that not the correct saying for that?
      2.? you mean Cloud? The fact that Cloud tells Sephiroth that he killed him, Sephiroth replied "a yes that was our crowning moment" and that Cloud has precognitions is according to me very detrimental and cannot show the same as FF VII OG did for Cloud. If a character sees the "future" they are no longer the same character. The implication of "multiverse" or "timelines" (or "memory"-time) removes my investment in remake Cloud :( even if I still think they did a great job with him. I really hope that the Cloud that Zack carries away at least is remake Cloud and that Zack gets a final destination death in a chronological order that plays out in the past relative to our party. I do not know which incident you are talking about but if you mean the forgotten capital then I do not believe it will happen and even if it does I will just feel relief. We as the audience knows a lot more earlier in the story than I would consider working for the same impact.
      I do not argue changes to Barret as a preset character but about his reactions. I mean he is the same kind of a guy but the narrative of the remake changes things that I consider detrimental in many ways (as how I feel on a subjective level about "stuff" but also on a narrative level etc). In Barrets case, there are things we as an audience know and things that he himself knows. We the audience think that Barret thinks he is responsible for the first bombing mission's casualties but we know the real truth about it and how pathetic their bomb was, changed intentions for remake or not. When and if Caith Sith can argue with him regarding being okay with innocent casualties it is not the same now, regardless of very small hints that Jessies bomb was not supposed to be that large (but in the OG she is proud that it was bigger than expected) and if the intent was there or not. That scene in the OG is a way to show Barret's growth but it lacks the punch when we know more. When the developers go meta we as an audience also have to go meta.
      From our perspective, Barret was a pathetic terrorist because their deads meant nothing as Avalanche was just a pawn in a bigger scheme (well this branch of Avalanche). I heard that the developers wanted Barret to distrust Cloud and that is why we did not get to see Avalanches base but to me, it is strange that Barret would toss away the biggest asset they have and "required" to complete the first mission. I am sure they thought that they could do the next mission more stealthy and I guess that Barret considers Cloud too expensive as well. He always seemed to be mission-oriented and not "just emotional" and did whatever to get the job done. Then again I do not really see the problem with that kind of change to Barrets decision making from a remake perspective but the way I see this is that SE forced Barret to make a different decision with major implications than in the OG because they wanted to use the new element which I have strong negative feelings towards. Making such changes does affect the minuscule things (as in why, how, when) and they add up, and because the game tells me constantly to compare to the OG I compare to the OG. Another example of a small change that chips away is that in the OG Cloud remembers that day long ago when he talks to Tifa while in the remake a more or less random fan reminds him of it. A very small detail that now has a different meaning (but at least to me such things are okay for a remake but if it is changed just to be different then it is just sad). Things like this in my opinion chipped away from many of the characters in either a small or large way. Barret is one of the least in this way though but there are examples.
      Barret trying to order the president to denounce Shinras bad ways seemed out of character (In the OG he was just glad that Shinra was dead), and him being resurrected and saved 2 times within 1 hour of gameplay yet wants to "spit in destinys face" and take out "ultra big boy" seemed very forced (again because of the new plot points). Now I know that we are not in agreement about the whisperers but from what Barret is told they represent the will of the planet yet Barret somehow thinks that he knows better than the planet because he is determined to fight that will. It seems silly to fight for the planet and just going along with defeating what they are supposed to believe are protectors of the planet because of a statement of "bleak future" and cryptic Aerith and Sephiroth. In the end, my picture is not the same as playing remake Barret and OG Barret. If we use remake to explain things in the OG I feel there is a disconnect from the characters "selves" even if it is far from always for the worse.
      There are surely better people out there that argue better than me and with more examples both for and against. I mean Barret's VA apparently thinks it is cool that Barret wanted to "talk" to Shinra instead of getting a chance to kill him. This is not the impression I got in the OG. In fact, I would consider it more or less plot armor that Shinra did not die when he taunted the party at the reactor in the OG because there are many ways for the party to kill him and the remake made an excellent point of this by having Shinra not present in the flesh in the remake. I am not the creator nor can I "win" hypothetical arguments of what a fictional character would have done but I can present my view and takes on it. In this case, I think that Barret, while awesome to see being so real also lost aspects in the translation of this story not being a "traditional" remake. Stamp, calling Cloud a dog etc seemed very much in character and excellent addition among others and the banter between the party is awesome. Since a lot boils down to the "new" plot and not how the old one was integrated into it I am used to being called a purist or similar. Comparing what we got and what I wanted I am not ashamed in saying that I wanted a closer to the OG remake than the remake we got and the reason people even can get upset by that is that people know what I am talking about.
      I am looking forward to pt2 of the discussion ;). My body is ready!

    • @schrodingersbabyseal
      @schrodingersbabyseal  3 года назад

      @@vincentgraymore I appreciate what you're saying.
      I do think this will continue to be Cloud's story...
      I think the reason that some folks are saying that Barret "stole the show" is that his character was developed to be much less "opaque" in Remake. It's sort of a hyperbole, but I think the sentiment of this is to infer that his charm and charisma was an unexpected highlight of the game.
      Regarding the differences in characterization, I still imagine that Reeve and Barret will have plenty of meaningful tension. The ideological differences are still there, and still relevant. Even though there was a shift in culpability over citizen casualty, it didn't really phase Barret's resolve. Despite the unintended casualty count, Barret still considered his action to be morally appropriate. I think this still sets up the philosophical divide between Reeve and Barret to have a narrative payoff, albeit more nuanced. I actually think his dialogue with President Shinra reflects this sentiment well. It's a complicated moral topic. In the OTWtaS: Barret, Barret has to struggle with the full ramifications of a shinra-less world, and has to face many of the pitfalls that President Shinra mentions.
      Regarding Barret seen as "pathetic" from a player's perspective. I did not have this takeaway and I am a player... with a perspective. He was largely successful in toppling the regime, even though there were other forces at play.
      As for Barret's new found mistrust of Cloud. I always found his trust of Cloud in the first place to be a little implausible... but moreover, Cloud is a little different this go around. His instability bled through a little more than in the OG at this point, and it's unclear what the narrative purpose of that difference is and how it relates the overall and meta-narratives. So it didn't strike me as a change that damages anything other than my nostalgic wish to see it.
      "Now I know that we are not in agreement about the whisperers but from what Barret is told they represent the will of the planet yet Barret somehow thinks that he knows better than the planet because he is determined to fight that will"
      But is that really what's happening? From his perspective, he's fighting Shinra... for the planet...then he's trying to escape with his life. He then sees Sephiroth at the end of the highway, the dude that just killed him. He now has to figure out what to do. His choice wasn't really implausible. He's with a crew of people that helped him achieve his goals, one of whom is responsible for saving his daughter's life. She's also a Cetra, which is a concept that Barret is familiar with and has reverence for. So if she asks him to fight the whispers because it's ultimately what's best, it doesn't seem absurd for him to buy in to that at all. He's helping his friends fight the guy who killed him, because the magical lady that saved his daughter told him to... seems pretty straightforward.
      I think the global climate has hopefully elevated the zeitgeist to see "terrorism" in a less black and white way. There are certainly bad terrorists, but I don't think the characterization granted by the OG did the complexity of the topic justice.
      In the US (not sure where you are from, so I won't assume) the term "Terrorist" has now ironically been "weaponized" as a way of labeling groups that represent a threat to any ideal. The President (Trump, not Shinra...although...) labeled both the BLM movement and Antifa as terrorist movements.
      So I think it was important to address this in a way that connects to the moral depth of the topic. Barret sparing the President and instead demanding justice was perhaps my favorite change to the plot. Because it highlighted that Barret's morality could not be put in a small box. "People are not one thing" as the saying goes...
      I appreciate the dialogue, and I appreciate that you took the time to expand on your opinions. They are definitely welcome here.
      I look forward to your input on our next video too!

    • @vincentgraymore
      @vincentgraymore 3 года назад

      ​@@schrodingersbabyseal ​ I live in Sweden a country that claims moral supremacy and I hate that. My country is trying to bark the loudest and tell others what is best but we are just a small country, just a little bigger than NY (~10 m vs ~8 M) and many that live here consider themselves moral elitists. We are on top in many aspects of the world but I do not think that one should impose moral codes on other countries willy nilly and Sweden is not afraid of doing that.
      I would rather have dark takes when I think it fits the story than censoring and I am not demanding a new social debate, which is why I think that of all FF, FF VII was the most in need of an M rating because now the blood trail also makes the game lose/change impact (and other things that affect the mood and tone). Barrets resolve is still the same and I think that from the game's perspective there is not a big difference in his moral stance, as I tried to explain, but the game has a narrative device that explores differences on a meta-level (outside of the game) and I think that means that one should look at it that way (especially if this is "barret-2"). It means that the audience's perspective is more important but perhaps I am among the few that cannot separate this game and the OG because the remake is just a story of how it is different from the OG. When I say pathetic I of course mean my opinion, I mean they did manage to do what they set out to do but it is not that hard if you are bombing someone that wants you to bomb them. Much of the fight against Shinra can be seen as staged because Shinra wants public support.
      Here it might get sensitive but I am still gonna say it: I look at comparison as if real-life terrorists were just pawns in 9/11 and I know that post and pre times are different for the world but frankly I do not think this should affect the world so much, in fictional media. I would rather take the old take again than censoring it and I think that adapting old stuff to new should not change the social debate regarding it. There are people out there that believe that the USA government was behind 9/11 and those people inadvertently shift the blame away from the terrorists, even if the terrorists thought that they did this themselves (this is not my opinion and I think the act is despicable regarding any case but we can still argue from the point of view). If news broke out that it was true that the government was behind it all then people would not really blame the terrorists anymore even if I think that no one would deny their involvement, regardless of the terrorists own agenda. In the remake we know that it is true that Shinra is behind everything, even if they aren't paying or pulling all the strings in motivations for our party. This is a very loose argument of responsibility and accountability. When we speak of Avalanche in FF VII, in the past or present (97 vs after 9/11) I have always seen "terrorist" as "extreme environmental activist". I do not think that Barret's intentions are to instill terror in civilians but rather a resistance fighter (hence his last name as well) using unlawful and violent solutions for a political goal. FF VII is by default different than reality because lifestream does not exist in our world and while you can argue that drilling oil destroys the environment (as it does) it is hardly on the level of burning the lifestream, a manifestation of life/soul.
      Avalanche (this branch) is very clearly not in the wrong in their doing this time around, they are being played, and the gray moral portrayed to the audience in the OG was according to me better for the legacy of the old themes, death/loss, and identity. Personally, I think that having Barret actually be responsible for the deaths of innocents would resonate much better. Then we as an audience would have to come to terms with him as a bad guy as well as a person justifying his revenge with environmentalism (like in the OG) not just a person with a stance of "military" moral. Now we cannot see anything wrong with his actions even if he is okay with civilian casualties. After all, he did not cause any. Killing the president in cold blood would have shown a very heavy conviction and could have had a much better payoff (seeing the guilt creep in Barrets mind going forward would have been an awesome way to depict the burden of killing people, even those that are bad) but then again, Shinra is already supposed to be dead so in the OG Barret does cannot take such a decision, which is why I mean that I cannot decide what a fictional character I did not write should or would not do. Shinra could have been killed as a human or as just a villain and now it is the same as in the OG except that we as an audience got to know that Barret did not intend to kill Shinra. To you it was for the better, for me it was just eye-rolling because the change to not having Barret even able to come into contact with the president beforehand was excellent but I thought it was to save Barret from not taking a chance he should have. Because fate is a thing all responsibility could be taken away from Barret and Shinra as well but that is a larger debate in of itself and questions morality as a concept at all.
      Even if Aerith is a Cetra a Cetra is "supposed" to be beings closer to the planet than humans but we are presented with beings that are even closer. The whisperers are said to be "THE enforcers of the planets will". They are thus what the planet wants. It is like you want the king to have a great life but when one of his knights says that the kings police is wrong it is okay to kill the police even though the police are just following direct orders from the king. Sephiroth might just have killed Barret but the whisperers saved him from that and from a collapsing roof on the highway and the exploding motor ball within more or less an hour of in-game time maybe even less. They are clearly not evil or ill-intended against Barret and we as the audience are painstakingly shown this by just these 3 events (and as old players we know that if the whisperers stay alive Barret will never die in this story). However, they did do things that the party should consider shady.

    • @vincentgraymore
      @vincentgraymore 3 года назад

      @@schrodingersbabyseal ​ This all relates to the pacing of the ending, which many people have an issue with. The writers have dumped a philosophical question without delving any deeper into it and we are just supposed to accept the party's hastily judgment from a vauge definition of Cetras by a Cetra that cannot control her "powers" properly. This is also why there are people out there that consider Aeriths speech 4th wall breaking (and I agree). She did not have to convince the party but rather the audience because from a narrative level it is faster and does not require as much of a setup and can be taken as absolute truth because narrators in a story are not generally lying. Aerith did save Barrets daughter and have a face and the whisperers were mingling in many bad events and are probably considered more monster than not. Barret says a line "so if... bleak future" but seems to take that if leading to that to heart. Regardless if the planet wants a bleak future Barret still takes action against what can be interpreted to be a sentient planet (a will usually mean that the being has perceptual emergence/awareness, but this is a question in itself regarding FF VII overall). He could put his faith and want in a better future for Marlene and humanity above that of the planet's will but does he really know that? You had to fight the weapons in the OG but frankly, they did not carry the stigma of being "will". Now, there are many that think we should consider the whisperers a WEAPON on its own and the compilation, the lifestream, and mystic aspect of FF VII are not defined down to mechanical universal fundamental forces with perfect equations so there is room for basically anything. People are quick to think that Red is misled, that Sephiroth is a master manipulator capable of real-time time-altering 4d chess and the whisperers have hidden implications for subversion but everyone thinks Aerith is 100 % reliable by what we have seen? The party should think that? She even shakes her head several times when asked questions that would be very beneficial in having an answer and she cannot say what their actions lead to. She might be magical but so are the whisperers and to Barret's knowledge from Red as a proxy to the magical lady the whisperers carry a higher degree of authority. Aerith cannot explain how she passed on the information to Red either. It is almost as if she only shares information that the writers want us to have but keep others. This is also the base of people that joke that Aerith might be saving herself or a sort of "save scummer". Again, the meta-narrative has a backlash. Cloud suffers the same strangeness because as you say he is different this time around and we are given big reasons to not trust him, his memories, his eyes, and his words, but to me Aerith is more or less similar, especially regarding trust. We are also given a meta context that "freedom" is supposed to be good while I would argue that in this case freedom is bad because we know that the original path that lacks freedom turns out all right.
      I am mostly arguing from a meta-level and as a player of the OG back in the day and I do not speak for all of those that are and did and I will not want to come across this way. "The real fan" card is tiresome and stupid and not something I support playing. As I favor Cloud I am more lenient in him being more changed but I was never a big fan of Barret in the OG. All characters are stereotypes to a large degree. In the remake, he is one among many things that show changes from the perspective that the writers wanted. If the writers hadn't gone out and said that it would be boring to do the "same game", if remake had meant "traditional" remake and if the new element wasn't so aggressive and forces comparison to the OG then I think I would not even argue the changes in Barrets case but they are a part of the flood that I consider a new story for FF VII, one that I like less than the OG story. This new Barret will set the new standard of Barrets because the remake will sooner or later take over the legacy of the OG just by being newer and having more fidelity (this is why I wanted a remake from the start, to get the same story but retold to friends that thinks FF VII is ugly and old but now I have to start an essay that it is grayer each time just because they ask a simple question -_-). I cannot say that it is wrong to have these changes but I can argue how it changes the narrative, for better or worse, from my perspective and judgment. As an example of good things regarding Barret, the nighttime story talk from Barret felt perfect in his fatherly role, even if I cannot relate as I am not a father. When the public opinion has shifted towards a legacy of having fate, time shenanigans in FF VII people will see a Barret that are okay with civilian casualties but did not manage to cause any, rather than when it could easily be argued that he was responsible for a lot.
      This went into a longer response than I thought it would (it is dangerous to ask me to explain my viewpoint and I can overwhelm people with words so I apologize for that, something I need to do more often than not) and to be honest it feels scary to argue against a person that has counted all the butterflies when I am more or less an amateur in FF VII on a scholar level. I do not mean to take away enjoyment from people but I do argue that the remake has made big mistakes regarding being a remake and/or a sequel, even if I can easily see the framework, layout, intentions, and love regarding remake as its own story. The OG is not perfect and the compilation is messy so many say that remake fits it perfectly and maybe they are right. Each character can have a deep dive as their own character with or without comparison regarding remake, OG, and compilation. These are in the end all just opinions and there is no absolute narrative truth.
      I am interested in other people's opinions and the underlying framework I never got an insight into, which is why I think it is great to see you guys wanting people to discuss Norse mythology in FF VII. I wish there were more people with scholar degrees in philosophy regarding fate and life(stream), time, among many subjects because as it stands now the surrounding topic is more interesting than FF VII remake itself. It is what might keep my passion for FF VII from fading away because if I was just going to think to myself about the remake I would abandon the world of FF VII on the burning fields of salt that it seems I am standing in.
      Edited some sentences that have wrong meaning because I started them a different way than I ended them >_< and added some.