Hey y'all! Be sure to check out Lucky Crit and his content, he makes some of the best FE videos on the site and helped make this video possible :) Lucky Crit - (ruclips.net/channel/UCGf0lomSkryKdv0zVkzkgJw) If you're wondering where the music is from, it's from a CD called Faith and Engagement :o Music - (ruclips.net/video/dbzLNh9BiOM/видео.html) Hope you enjoyed! I can't wait to hear all of your thoughts on this topic, they are sure to be really interesting.
@@cynthiagian9524 I believe he was referring to what OP said, about getting the crit after you already took a hit and when it no longer makes a difference
Pikapower, to be fair Ryoma tends to Astra and Crit up the asses of whatever enemy is in the way. Give Shiro a Killer Lance and Astra from Ryoma you get a character who takes after his father in that department.
Look at all these other replies saying: atleast you're not as unlucky as someone getting killed by a 1% Crit. Atleast you aren't as unlucky as me. Last movement on enemy turn. My Corrin still had 32 HP left. Masterninja with Mechanist as Support attacks her. Masterninja does 6 damage twice, because he is faster, with a 6% Crit, Mechanist does 4 damage witha 1% Crit. They don't have Killerweapons, meaning I can survive if I'm crit once and I just skip the fight. And then the Game Over music started playing. I got Crit twice. At best that was a 0,36% chance of happening
I think there is some science to it, like the other guy said, you have fewer units with better chances to crit. Critting and killing a generic enemy won't do much, sure it's nice once in a while but it feels far harsher when you are on the receiving end. Landing crits on a boss is nice, especially with regenerating HP but later bosses usually won't die to just one. Needless to say, these rules don't go for you as well.
We view it unevenly because it's not even in the first place. The enemy can afford to send hordes of units into the meat grinder to exploit miniscule chances of success. The player cannot.
Honestly I hate Milas turnwheel now. It's made me complacent. I take a lot more risks now and its really punishing me in other games post-Echoes. I think I'll have to play in casual from now on.
The worst I have seen went something like this: "Pshh this enemy has zero hit, super safe attack." -attacks enemy and enemy crits - immediately look at enemy crit chance (1%). Turn off game.
This reminds of the agdq run that kirbymastah did for fe7. Where he flubbed the final boss movement so it was all up to a Lyn crit. And spoilers, Lyn does crit and finishes off the map. It was a real and memorable moment, especially after a run where every movement all rng numbers are burned so everything works in the players favor.
Note: The statement on critical damage always being 3x is not entirely accurate. FE4 instead doubles the unit's raw attack value (weapon might + Strength or Magic) before calculating damage.
@@fernando47180 depends on the game and circumstance. In Awakening, where a moderate maximum strength stat is 40 and the damage it deals hovers in the 20s, the results could easily favor doubling attack value. Assuming a silver sword, the attack value would be 102, which would deal 71 damage to a 31 defense unit as apposed to 60 damage in the same scenario.
Depends if you're using common sense to think logically or observing what the games show you and deciding based upon that. The games are a bit misleading because they show you the critical animation before the blow is struck and every time you see the critical animation the attack is going to hit. It gives the impression the crit roll is done first because that's what's seen first, ergo 100% crit should trigger a critical every time and criticals always hit, so 100% crit should always hit regardless of what your hit is. Of course this isn't the way the games actually work, but crit almost never reaches 100% to prove it in normal gameplay and anything less can be explained by bad luck.
I feel like the answer lies with the common response to RNG complaints with Xcom... you shouldn't rely on the RNG to win for you. There must've been something you could've done to mitigate bad RNG, like healing that Kent at 0:39 for example.
its much like the clip with the berserker and mc. 16% chance to land a hit of 20, and 4% chance to land a crit. yet, due to the devils own luck, that beserker crit for 60 damage. what could he have done to prevent that? grind some luck and skill stats? logically, there should have been no chance of that ever happening, but it did
I tend to err more on the "realism of war" and "fun unpredictability" side of things, but I also think there should always be something the player can do to handle or nullify the risk. For example, though I think enemy berserkers are really dumb, fates is uncharacteristically good at giving you options. Percy is essentially a local crit-barrier with his personal skill. Lilly's poise stacked with demoiselle and inspiration on Elise can decrease damage received by 7, and pair ups can stack with this, getting characters out of fatal range. Add rally defense with wyverns to the mix, and you have a lot of options. ...Oh... I just realized I listed mostly nohr exclusives Welp, this just confirms what I already thought personally. Screw birthright
As a player who has been playing Fire Emblem since the GBA games, I agree that there are steps that can be taken to avoid the risk of getting critted MOST OF THE TIME. Such as having a well rounded team and taking advantage of enemy range limitations, hitting the lower stat, going in with your most evasive unit instead of your most tanky, using wepeapon advatage to increase dodge, or sending in a unit with alot of Luck stat. That being said, sometimes you HAVE to engage a key unit in order to secure a possibility of surviving the next turn but once you kill that unit, you put your fate in the hands of the RNG because now the unit you attacked with is within range of multiple enemies with no way to pull out of the area. This is where most devastating enemy crits happen but you HAD to take that chance. If you hadn't killed the enemy you targeted, they were guaranteed to kill someone. This is where Fire Emblem gets you. But it's okay because when you restart chapter, you can plan better for what you know is coming. I believe Fire Emblem is more than just a game. It's an experience of peraonal mental growth through trial and error and that's what keeps you coming back for more!
I haven't seen anyone say anything about the player getting an UNlucky crit. Imagine this: You (a magic user) are within range of 3 enemies: 1 Archer (21 HP), and 2 Spear Fighters (22 HP apiece). It's the enemy's turn, and you have 27/27 HP. Diagram below: (pln. = plain) No skills are applicable here. _____ |You|Tree| |Pln.|Tree| |Arc.|Tree| |Spr.|Spr.| |Pln.|Pln.| On your turn, you attacked the Archer (who is now at 9 HP), and they missed their counterattack. Enemy Phase: The Archer attacks. They deal 7 damage. You finish them off with your counterattack. A Spear Fighter attacks. They deal 11 damage. Normally, you would do 10 damage to them, but a crit happens! "Time to play!" They cry out in pain as you cut their HP to zero. The second Spear Fighter attacks. You pray for a miss, but their attack hits. Defeated, you find solace because at least they didn't crit you. Time to reset the game; you were a valuable unit to your team. If you hadn't landed that critical, the second Spear Fighter wouldn't have had the chance to attack you and the chapter would continue after you were healed. THAT is the other bad side of criticals. Thank you for reading.
I'd think critical hits are more a reminder to the player that something, nay, anything can and will go wrong in a game with permadeath, and that they should always be prepared to make the correct decision (or in some instances, the difficult one).
What i like about the criticial system is it gives more purpose to raising DEF/RES rather than becoming adodge tank or something op like dark mage with vantage and nosferatu tome. Criticials are nearly useless when the opponent can only do 1-5 damage
The solution to character imbalance is to make the characters more focused on something and prevent them from gaining abilities that allows them to overtake other characters. Why should a mage get advantage on attack order and heal when they can get an intial attack in before the enemy even came close and can get stay buffs in all aspects through items? It's why I always hated the Archer feeling like I have an inferor mage that often can do everything.
The game is only about resetting when you mess up if you either make a careless decision with your main character (or just get unlucky, sure) or are trying to play a no-death run. Personally I like that critical hits force me to be cautious, and also put me in situations where sometimes a plan that SHOULD have gone well goes poorly, and now I have to figure out how to respond. But I can totally see why crits are frustrating too, especially for people who want a no-death run, so I'm glad they added casual mode for that reason.
I've found enemy critical hits to be few and far between. As the difficulty goes up they do become more frequent, but as Lucky crit stated, it adds some spice and flavour into an otherwise standard game. Is it frustrating when you're on the receiving end? Yes, but that's just sorta how it goes. You could tweak it I spose, but beyond that its a manageable system. Really, the biggest gripes with enemy criticals, I've found, is the same gripes with fog of war, desert maps, swamp maps, ambushes and other forms of external influence, lack of control. People can't seem to handle having to slow down or adapt to the terrain, if it slows the level down, then its bad design, rather than a challenge to do something different. Players can't handle when other things come into play, when some things go against them, and its the same with enemy criticals. Yes with the permadeath system its harsh, but enemy crits are so disproportionate to player crits, I see it as a necessary evil. I'd much prefer being able to plan and strategize things, while also tempting fate, than playing the same game of chess with rearranged pieces and tiles.
Yeah, my only complaint about FOW and deserts are that they slow down the game... they do make for more interesting and varied gameplay though. On the note of enemy crits... if they have a 4% and especially for greater chances, I make sure that the unit going against them can survive such a blow, or to have a healer nearby just in case they do.
sometimes overkills and other times just what you absolutely need it I personally luv them just cause they keep things more interesting(mostly for the better in my book)plus they also look pretty cool and satisfying when pulled Of
I wish some -not all- of the crits were scripted like in echoes, because it just adds so much more emotion to the scene. Also why Alm is best lord -except for maybe Leif- But to be honest, i think unpredictable crits are a pretty cool game mechanic. War is calculated chaos, Victory is never assured, and, most of all, *Life is precious* : This message is what I get out of criticals.
When are any of Alm's crits scripted? You mean when he kills Duma? Hate to break it to you, but that isn't scripted, Alm does the speech when you roll an outcome that kills Duma. It doesn't even have to be a crit, from my knowledge.
Colton Zuspan Only on Killer weapons though, and they did have their might reduced. Still hilariously broken when you've got a 64% x2 chance to get them, though.
Personally, I think Fates in general (at least PvP wise) was too RNG based when it came to crits, and, to a certain extent, skill activation. For PvP in my non-hacker experience, it comes down to "Who can crit/proc an Ignis/Dragon Fang/Lethality first." But yeah, Killer weapons having 4x crit damage is just disgusting.
I'm sorry to say that the joy i feel when one of my units lands a random crit is much smaller than the hate i feel when a random brigand lands a 1% critical hit on my favorite unit and gets me to restart the chapter.
*Critical Hits are always a great addition to Tactical RPGS, not only FE but other titles like Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre* It adds the randomness that a unit got distracted for a second and it costed them their life or at least massive injuries....and frankly, if you depend solely on luck for victory then you need to revise your strategies. *Leave luck to the RNG and focus what you can to the upmost of your abilities*
Who said solely on luck ? When an enemy has a 10 percent chance to hit me and a 4 percent chance to crit on top of this and he DOES land a crit, I'd say I was pretty well covered and made a safe move with 0.4% chance of failure. That's not relying on luck yet I still got to restart that chapter.. When you play on hard there isn't always a way to make the enemy have 0% or to kill every unit that has a lethal weapon without retaliation.
Criticals are like the cherry on top of fire emblem, my most vivid memory of it is a castle battle where Ryoma (my last unit left) activated Astra (what I let count as critical because its also based on stats) 3 times (and dodged well) and I won. The adrenaline was real
Critical hits aren't just disruptive elements. They are also part of the stretagy. You have to mind the enemies with a big crit % and you have to learn how to boost and better use your units with higher crt% (Has a small example, in radiant dawn an archer with the gamble skill had a 70% chance of doing a critical. And if you gave him an heros bow that would equal 4 crit attacs. Not even the dragons at the end of the game were able to witstand this) BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, the crt hits breath life into the characters. That way they aren't just lifless objects over whom you have absolut control. They became " real" Individuals capable of incredible acts that save the day or faliurs. Think about it in most games if you fail you feel frustated with yourself but in FE when a character messes up you get mad at him just as if he was a real person an this in turn gives more substance to the characters and makes them more tangible.
Critical hits are essential to the Fire Emblem experience in my perspective. Even enemy criticals. Shouzo Kaga made Fire Emblem to be a game with connection to the characters and felling both their triumph and pain. Critical hits and other RNG-based mechanics were chosen to help players have unexpected wins and losses. Making them surprises can add both emphasised emotions and stakes. They also show a greater depiction of war in that they are upsets, and show help players to not have a completely counculated experience, which make the game less fun. Common arguments against RNG in Fire Emblem are mostly fueld by loss aversion, which makes sense since it's natural, so while I usually don't agree with them, they do make sense since and should be expected with a permanent death system (especially when RNG is thrown in to the mix). When addressing That One Video Gamer's argument, it's important to know that resseting is not intentional at all in Fire Emblem and in a sense, can be viewed as cheating. While the developers most likely are completely aware players do this, the can't and (in my opinion) shouldn't design the game with exploits and tricks that they didn't mean to put there.
I also agree to an extent with what you're trying to convey, but in a way, it adds to the amount of caution and calculation that goes into your strategy. It also depends on your playstyle. If you're playing with weak units who can easily be disposed of by a 3x attack, you want to make more defensive strategic measures. It's common sense to put higher defensive units on the front lines. Units with more health, and a weapon advantage will more likely be able to withstand a critical hit even if it seems unlikely for them to trigger. Same goes for attacking. I always gauge my opponent's critical hit chance before initiating a battle. If my opponent is a melee user and it seems likely they will crit, (15% is my limit) I try to damage the enemy with a ranged unit first, then deal the finishing blow with my own melee unit. It all comes down to strategy. And when the odds are against you and you can't make such simple calculations, it encourages the player to be creative.
I honestly think Pavise's argument is solid, and more coherent with crafting an enjoyable game to experience. As in, criticals should still exist, just have their effectiveness lowered, specially in a game with perma death. Take X-Com 2, for instance. Tactical RPG, Perma Death, Squad Building. All common properties that are shared with Fire Emblem. However, in X-Com, positioning matters WAY more (and thus, more in control of the player; in Fire Emblem, I feel the most strategic choice is often just walking together and baiting single enemies with tanky units) and criticals matters WAY less (Criticals do not multiply damage, every weapon has a fixed bonus damage; The very last shotgun tier in X-com 2, which does 8-10 damage, crits for merely +5 before any soldier skills that may modify crit damage slightly). The variety of damage that Lucky Crits speak of, in X-com, is already built in regular weapon damage, and thus the need for crits to be what keeps combat from becoming stale is unecessary. Thanks to these characteristics, X-Com makes it so that Critical hits the player suffer feel significantly more fair - Soldiers will often survive if at a relatively healthy condition before being their victims, and in most cases they already only happen, at all, based on poor positioning - and by poor positioning I don't mean "Fragile soldier in range of an enemy", but "Completly flanked by an enemy". All mechanics in a game are to create interesting decisions - but if a unit of mine has 29 hitpoints, and an enemy unit is hitting it for 10, crit 3% and the crit provides an instant death, no relevant decision but alpha striking that unit from range is viable if I am to take into consideration the 3% chance for that unit to kill mine; so what usually happens is we completly ignore the low crit chance that would spell instant doom, simply because it's not feasible, within most Fire Emblem games, to COMPLETLY avoid all units that have a 2 or 3% crit that would kill one of your soldiers. A mechanic that you ignore most of the time, yet it can instantly compromise your gameplay, does not sound to me like a properly functioning mechanic.
Personally, I've always found that critical hits are at their best when they happen to my units, but don't kill. It's an unpredictable situation that quickly raises the tension, yet still allows for counterplay as I reevaluate my strategy to accommodate for the change in gamestate. The problem is with how rarely this happens, due to how powerful crits are. In a way, I like how Echoes addressed this. Sure, you can use the turnwheel to rewind back to before the crit happened, but the impact remains. Suddenly, you know your original strategy would result in an *un* lucky crit, so even without your unit being at risk you're forced to change your plans and come up with a way to circumvent that. If only we weren't all experienced save scummers who know how to abuse the rng system...
I think the best thing fire emblem has done with critical hits is with the character portraits cutting in with a quote. Adds more to the characters other than just supports
Loved hearing both sides of the case! I like crits because they can help certain characters (like Fir and Rutger) train better instead of dying to high damage throughout a duel. I just put my tankier units out front, so that crucial enemy crits do not often become a problem for me.
actual war simulator are the best anti war games. where you died in one hit and don't respawn and you learn why soldiers waste 250,000 bullets per kill.
Yes, just what I wanted you to make! With another one of my fav. RUclipsrs as well! Yea, it's important to understand how crits work. I do think they are a good representation of war. Ever since I picked up HEMA I've come to see moments of "critical hits" when I fight with my partners. Granted I know it's not a perfect representation of war, but it's still a little taste. There are just some strikes you can not recover from.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Mila's Turnwheel. It's one of the best things to happen to the series in my opinion, eliminating those unlucky moments where you get killed by a 2% crit (unless it's Alm or Celica but oh well).
You didn't mention two of the biggest problems with crits. Situation A: you're trying to train one of your lower-leveled units, so you try to weaken an enemy that will give a bunch of XP. Random crit, wasted XP, sadness. Situation B: your tank is blocking a choke and can survive x enemies so that no more can attack him. Random crit, an enemy unexpectedly dies, and x+1 enemies attack your tank, so he ends up dying.
Con: you always get a crit and kill the boss when you just wanted to soften it up so a weaker party member could deal the final blow and get the experience.
There's that moment when Ryoma gets a non-stop string of critical hits, and then there's that time when my OP Jakob died to a 1% chance critical hit. Thank goodness for casual mode. I say, yea, let us keep the hits most critical in the games, to challenge us and make us feel emotions.
the main issue with critical hits is the stakes. Few people make a play banking on something that has less than a 50% chance of happening. They usually play in a relatively safe manner, so getting a crit is a convenience for them at best. Getting crit, on the other hand, means auto death. Even though the player is more likely to get a crit, the balance still tilts in favor of souring the experience. It will remain that way for as long as losing a unit remains a crippling loss.
Great vid, but I think it would have been good to mention that crits haven't always just been triple damage, and that Kaga's reasoning for using crits was to encourage the player to utilise the replacement units
crits as a part of tactics are possibly the manifestation of desperation in a character... in war, desperation can be a key part but is much more logical than you think... think of yourself in a similar scenario, in the game, it is the player that moves the units as though they were pieces on a chessboard... but in actual war, it is the soldiers themselves who make the decisions on their own. you could say the leader or strategist gave you a goal to achieve this battle at the start of it but it is up to you how to achieve that goal. but back to the concept of desperation, put yourself in the character's shoes. you, as that character are on your own and you hear enemies just about to overwhelm you... that's when the adrenaline starts pumping, that's when the desperation sets in. and when you see a possible chance to take out an enemy within your perception you take that chance... hopefully you can blitz through your opponents and survive on just the rush alone. now remember desperation and adrenaline can force you to think or act faster than normal.... for a brutish character that means more power in their strikes... for those that rely on precision and getting that perfect hit at their vitals... and desperation when used by a mage can become a powerful source of magical energy in some aspects of fiction.
Except this isnt real life and there are many things that go against that like a character with armor so powerful that it prevents any sort of loss normally, but not enough to get lax on a master swordsman whos life is battle. It's nice to have real life justification of something, but that doesn't supercede gameplay unless that is what your game is about. Something like Arma.
IMO simple answer to criticals. Treat a critical hit less like a death attack and more like an incapacitation. Kind of like how some important characters will not die, but suffer permanent damage and escape for story reasons. Treat it like the character was rendered unconscious by the powerful blow. Meaning they don't die, but they are no longer a part of that map. While most players may still restart to give that character experience or training, it also can be a feature on attacking enemies as well.
Losing one of the extra cavaliers, either Trec or Noah, in FE 6 by being critical hit by a slow boss with 1% hit and 1% crit, which killed him (he could have survived 2 normal hits), when I was about to beat him... That was a fun time. Very memorable rage. I made up for it by getting Rutger to 105% crit, to exact revenge upon every enemy thereafter.
Yay, because as long as Hit rate exists, Crits should exist as well. Why should I miss my attack at 99% when I can’t be able to crit at 1 % crit rate. If it is as tactical as you say, then hit rate should be included as well. (This isn’t hate message, just a counter argument to the point on unpredictable outcomes beyond your control.)
Missing an attack at 99% results in missing a single attack, a much tamer result (the majority of the time) than taking the force of a triple damage 1% critical. Both may have a 1% chance of happening, but a critical (most of the time) is much more devastating. I'm not against forces beyond the player's control, I have a whole video justifying the role of RNG in the series. Yet, critical hits often feel like a step over the line due to their ridiculous damage multiplier, especially considering permanent death's prominence in the series.
Pavise Productions I do understand, but with missing a hit, it could lead to death because you might be at few hp and one last unit to kill in an area. You have high hit rate yet miss and get counter attacked. It was all rng, that you missed. In hard game modes, you have to take risks, and risks are heavy on hit rate. Sure, a crit is usually not expected, but so his missing. I would also bring up skills like luna or rend heaven. They can sometimes be more effective than crits. In a game like Echoes and Revelations, I really depended on critting.Tobin (sage) would usually only use excalibur to get crits because he couldn’t kill without critting. Critting is a strategy when you wield killer weaopns. Yea, enemies do have access to critting. The rng behind critting is just like you said, It is luck. It can make you feel that you have no control. ... but is that not the same with missing. Even the enemy hitting you at 20 or 30 % can be ridiculous. I would say that hit rates are just as annoying and missing on high or enemy hitting on low happens more than critting does, which causes hit rate to be more of an annoyance.
Selena Honor I get what you're saying but your arguments kind of suck ass. Hits and crits don't carry the same weight in strategy, and one is much easier to mitigate and work around than the other.
Recently, during the final chapter in Thracia 776, my team had trouble dealing with the center-northern boss who had access to both Astra and Luna. But fortunately, my Tanya landed a critical hit with the Brave Bow and finished the job o_O
I think they could use the Fire Emblem Heroes system to calculate specials, for hit rate and critical hits. That way it can still give somewhat the illusion of being random and ads depth to the game.
The critical hit system in Genealogy is somehow very good in making most of these Cons inoperative.While dealing slightly different Bonus damage than the usual criticals, it's basically player-exclusive and even for the Player, they are far away from breeing essential and it isn't impossible to Play through the whole game without even noticing their existance.
Critical hits is pretty much a double-edged sword. When you crit. you destroy your enemy. But when they crit. They can ruin you so fast. Hell my First chapter in Fire emblem Awakening. As my Avatar. I was attacked by a Myrmidon for one damage. Then a mage follows up. And Critical hits me for just enough damage to kill me. I was like...AAAHH SHIT! it's not a fun feeling when the least expected, happens.
Actually here's one thing people have not talked about. Strategy. Dealing with critical hits is important strategy. If you're ignoring them or they're sneaking up on you, you're not playing perfectly. Obviously you can play nearly perfect and just get unfairly shafted but it could have been avoided. In Fire Emblem I see three types of damage and three kinds of defense: physical, magical and crit. Each of the, have their own defense stats such as def, res and luck (luck decreases enemy crit chance). It means when fighting an enemy a lot of times you'll need to play to a character's strengths to avoid critical hits. Some guy has a crit chance? Put him up against a unit with high enough luck to void the crit chance or put him up against a unit who can take the hit. There's tools to deal with crits but you have to make sure to use them.
And thus came casual mode in the newer games so new players, like myself not long ago, could get through without losing a unit to rng, still I like the crit mechanic, and I’m just glad that they made a mode where permadeath didn’t exist
I think the point of critical hits is both to give players a chance against impossible odds, but more importantly it was a way for the developers to nearly ensure that the player will at some point lose a unit. I think the main idea behind the design was to make use of the permadeath mechanic to make everyone's playthroughs that much more different and make the game that much more replayable. The problem with this design is that players get so attached to these characters or feel such a desire for perfection that they are much more likely to restart a chapter than to accept the death of one of their few units that they chose to keep on the front lines. I struggle to think of a way for the developers to promote players accepting the loss of units in this way, but something must change for the permadeath mechanic to become integral to the experience and not just a hindrance and annoyance to players that would rather redo entire sections of gameplay to avoid it. The main way I can think is to autosave at every action so if a character dies the player can't reload a save to bring them back, but this would likely still turn more people away from the game than encourage exploring new characters after a hole appears in your starting line-up. Maybe having character deaths profoundly impact the story might encourage some to see where the story goes after losing a unit, whereas currently the only thing that changes is the player having one less tool, making it more worth it to reload and preserve them.
What I think ? The overwhelming feeling of losing to a critical hit is the same of being Stabbed into the back by a close friend ... I think the point of them being so obnoxious and scary is to put the player under the pressure of being under something bigger than him ... something that demise the player... thus making the player lose hope or to feel such ardent wrath towards that thing , just as the characters do. Fire emblem makes you feel each hit you take fear any miscalculation and the unknow possibilities of unvoidable deaths
Think about it , it has a sense of realism. Like maybe i was aiming for an opponent's arm but I hit a vital artery instead i didn't mean to do something that potentially damaging but it happened any way ,maybe a inch difference in where a hit lands is the difference between life and death.
I would love to try the happy medium here: A total absence of critical hit rates, but with the standard hit rates and classic+reset fundamentals left intact.
I think one of the best arguments for critical hits that wasn't mentioned is the tactical aspect. Some sets are built entirely around critical hits - for example, Ophelia with Death Blow and Mjölnir scores incredibly reliable critical hits. Or even in a more casually played main story, equipping a high skill unit with a "Killing" weapon can be a viable, albeit slightly risky, strategy. (Lon'qu in Awakening) I also agree with the argument that the critical hit animations are a great feature throughout the Fire Emblem games, especially early on when active abilities are few. However, I don't quite believe that this offsets the devastating impact of losing a unit due to a low percent critical hit, and I'd agree that there should be some nerf to crit. (making it 2x damage or less likely on AI)
_not to mention when you're trying to weaken a unit so your less experienced characters can get the kill and level up and you fucking crit with a 3% chance_
Critical hits can vary from game to game. To be honest, I don't really like them because it feels like they work against me far more often than they work for me. This is just my opinion, but I think the harder the game punishes you for failiure the less impact luck should have on your ability to succeed/fail. When I fail, I want it to be because I suck rather than because the random number generator gave me the middle finger. Getting a lucky crit and winning when I should have lost is nice, but not when the price of that good feeling is 20 other times where I die to some random enemy getting a wicked crit and one shotting a favorite character.
i tend to come down on the pro crit side, because i rarely lose soldiers solely to a crit, and i often beat unkillable juggernauts of bosses with a killing edge. Hell, the only specific instance i can think of where i made no mistakes on the strategy side and still lost a character i liked to a critical hit was when ilyana bit an arrow that one shotted her.
Forget critical hits - battlefield mortality, especially during the medieval era, is a lot lower than you'd expect. Anyone wearing armor would be salvageable later, especially if healing magic exists, which could allow mortal blows on even lightly armored allies to be reversed. If we wanted a more accurate portrayal, we'd have formation fighting and routing enemies (they break and run away). It pretty much boils down to how comfortable you are with RNG in your game.
It an accurate representation of war but I most said they could also had a systeme of 3 type of crit (that would be role on the crit itself) Exemple: If the unite got 1% crit it would only have a X1.5 If the unite got above 5% the next % would get a X2.25 (but would keep the X1.5 for the frist 5% Exemple: if you got 7% you would have 5% of X1.5 and 2% of X2.25) If the unite got above 10% the next % would get a X3 (Exemple: if you got 25% Crit rate you would have a 5% of X1.5 a 5% of X2.25 and a 15% of X3) This would reduce the frustration of the 1 to 4% Crit rate on your unite... But it would also reduce your chance of geting critical damage whit a unite that lack Skill and Luck... This would make Skillfull unite also fell a bit more impactfull than just geting higher Hit rate because if they can get a high Crit rate they could get bonnus for it. (It would also be a accurate representation of War The ppl whit high Skill and Luck would stumble less on themself and would find more hole into the enemies armor.) SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH I do like crit but it could use some improvement a bit on Low %
Fire emblem, to me, is a game about risk management and strategy - crit and miss chances play an integral role in the first part of that. While I could agree with your criticisms if the player was not told crit chances, or if crtis were a flat rate independent of the units' stats, a great deal of fun in a fire emblem game for me is weighing the odds and doing the math to find the best solution to the turn. To say that random chance detracts from the strategy of the game is simply false - instead, it adds a further layer of complexity for the player to consider when planning their turn, which, in my opinion only serves to enhance the experience.
I think they should make critical hits 1.5× instead of 3×. This way, there's some degree of unpredictability, but you can still assure units will be safe even in the case of enemy criticals.
Oh god, I remember that Fates clip with Odin. That was absolutely nuts. Also, didn't know you couldn't crit if you can't hit. I thought if you crit, it's a garrenteed hit. Ex. 0 Hit, 100 Crit = a hit. Guess not.
There's only one thing I know about critical hits, and that is that my units with 98 crit have a much lower chance of actually landing a crit than the enemy with 2.
Could one argue for enemies not being able to land crits? Every one of your units is normally a prodigy or above average in their department so they shouldn’t have any issues evading crits. At least for soldier units. Bosses are an exception
What if Frits couldn't drop you below 1 health unless the normal hit would've killed you anyway? That way it still puts you on edge and in danger but doesn't outright kill in one attack and if it does "omae wa mou shinderu!".
My only addition to this video would be that crits in the Jugdral games work differently, to mixed results. First, in FE4 alone, you need to have the Critical skill to be able to crit, or be wielding a weapon like a Killer weapon (or a weapon that has killed 50 enemies). From there it procs off of a percent chance based on skill, as if it were any other skill activation. In FE5 they activate mostly as normal, but each character has a hidden PCC stat, or Pursuit Critical Coefficient, which acts as a multiplier to crit chance when making their second attack of a single combat round (or second set of attacks, if using a Brave-effect weapon). This ranges from 0, or no crit chance, to 5, or practically a guaranteed crit. The most important part though is that both these games handle crit damage differently than every other FE game. Instead of tripling your final damage number (aka (atk-def)*3), they double your BASE attack, before defense is subtracted ((atk*2)-def). This makes crits incredibly valuable on weaker units like swordmasters, allowing them to deal major damage to generals which they might otherwise not be able to hurt at all, whilst also making crits vs units with less armor, like mages, less impactful, though still likely to kill. While this doesn’t change the main point of the video, it does add on some commentary in terms of the critical system having already attempted some iterations, instead of staying completely stagnant for almost 30 years.
I forgot his name but the red head guy who was a swordmaster from fe8 took and the last boss by himself and landed 3 critical hits in one turn killing the Final boss. I was like, that was anticlimactic...
I really like crit, actually. I don't really get upset when I have to reset a map unless I spent a particularly long time on it or I have to give up some really good level ups, and, since I don't really do LTC runs, usually playing turn-by-turn instead of planning everything out ahead of time, I tend to view bad luck in a similar light to bad play.
I swear annoying enemy units in the prologue where you get ryoma's son is just painful as they have basically no hit but just crit all my units so even after I formulate a plan to rescue the character my units just die to a random crit that really annoyed me
Crits are my preferred form of gambling in Fire Emblem. I'd rather risk dealing a small amount of damage than missing altogether with, say, a Berserker with a 30% even WITH weapon triangle advantage.
Hey y'all!
Be sure to check out Lucky Crit and his content, he makes some of the best FE videos on the site and helped make this video possible :)
Lucky Crit - (ruclips.net/channel/UCGf0lomSkryKdv0zVkzkgJw)
If you're wondering where the music is from, it's from a CD called Faith and Engagement :o
Music - (ruclips.net/video/dbzLNh9BiOM/видео.html)
Hope you enjoyed! I can't wait to hear all of your thoughts on this topic, they are sure to be really interesting.
Pavise i don't know why you got luckycrit to talk about the main series. The guy only plays heroes
Con: Your character usually crits after they've taken a hit and the next attack would've killed the enemy anyway
they also tend to crit when you want them to just soften the enemy so the guy with no def can take the kill :p
That always happens to me with Rutger, with a Killing Edge.
Always.
ALWAYS.
@@tinchosabala just give him a iron sword,early game he leaves them all with 1-3 hp
@@cynthiagian9524 I believe he was referring to what OP said, about getting the crit after you already took a hit and when it no longer makes a difference
@@tinchosabala
*Tries to weaken an enemy and wants it to survive*
*Uses a killing edge*
Ah yes I remember:
>Grima almost dead
>use Robin
>86% hit rate, enough damage to finish him off
>Grima 1% crit
>misses
>Grima crits
>start over
That's xcom baby
You can lose with robin?
Rellying on 4% crit is the best strat
Luis Mario Montanero found Mangs' alt account
*Relying on a crit from ryoma
Pikapower, to be fair Ryoma tends to Astra and Crit up the asses of whatever enemy is in the way.
Give Shiro a Killer Lance and Astra from Ryoma you get a character who takes after his father in that department.
My ryoma got crit then astra then triple crit lol
Spoken like a true Osian
1:38 - Man that player got lucky. Why does shit like that never happen when I play?
Mangs be sure to keep mekkah in jail this time mangs
Don't complain Mangs. At least you aren't as unlucky as this guy 2:44
Mangs at least you are not as unlucky as the guy at 7:01
I will never forgive you for Nephenee...
Look at all these other replies saying: atleast you're not as unlucky as someone getting killed by a 1% Crit.
Atleast you aren't as unlucky as me. Last movement on enemy turn. My Corrin still had 32 HP left. Masterninja with Mechanist as Support attacks her. Masterninja does 6 damage twice, because he is faster, with a 6% Crit, Mechanist does 4 damage witha 1% Crit. They don't have Killerweapons, meaning I can survive if I'm crit once and I just skip the fight. And then the Game Over music started playing. I got Crit twice. At best that was a 0,36% chance of happening
It's actually kinda funny how we, the player, view crits. When we get a low% crit, it's a godsend, but if the AI gets it, it's bullshit.
jedimasterpickle3 that’s how literally anything is when there’s a low chance of it happening
jedimasterpickle3 Yeah. It’s bullshit because it’s a godsend and vice versa.
I think there is some science to it, like the other guy said, you have fewer units with better chances to crit. Critting and killing a generic enemy won't do much, sure it's nice once in a while but it feels far harsher when you are on the receiving end. Landing crits on a boss is nice, especially with regenerating HP but later bosses usually won't die to just one. Needless to say, these rules don't go for you as well.
We view it unevenly because it's not even in the first place. The enemy can afford to send hordes of units into the meat grinder to exploit miniscule chances of success. The player cannot.
Pretty much my first point, but more well-worded.
God bless Mila's Turnwheel.
Hector Gonzalez well isn't it though?
Don't you mean:
"Mila bless Mila's Turnwheel"
Honestly I hate Milas turnwheel now. It's made me complacent. I take a lot more risks now and its really punishing me in other games post-Echoes. I think I'll have to play in casual from now on.
You mean mila's phoenix mode?
I get a crit- nice job (unit name) you got me out of a tough spot
Enemy crits- FUUUUUUUUCKING 2%
Jared Everett It's more like "THAT ENEMY HAD A 10% TO HIT, AND A 1% TO CRIT, AND THAT WAS A SWORDMASTER, HOW!?!"
The worst I have seen went something like this: "Pshh this enemy has zero hit, super safe attack." -attacks enemy and enemy crits - immediately look at enemy crit chance (1%). Turn off game.
I lost a unit because the enemy critted twice in a row with 1%
This reminds of the agdq run that kirbymastah did for fe7. Where he flubbed the final boss movement so it was all up to a Lyn crit. And spoilers, Lyn does crit and finishes off the map. It was a real and memorable moment, especially after a run where every movement all rng numbers are burned so everything works in the players favor.
Shame that actually was secretly manipulated
SquidSystem sources
In the video he sarcastically says "I totally didn't plan that at all."
SquidSystem that’s not a secret if he practically said it was set up
RNG manipulation is pretty cool to see pay off in a game like FE
Note: The statement on critical damage always being 3x is not entirely accurate. FE4 instead doubles the unit's raw attack value (weapon might + Strength or Magic) before calculating damage.
Doubling attack value is probably even more powerful than tripling damage dealt
@@fernando47180 depends on the game and circumstance. In Awakening, where a moderate maximum strength stat is 40 and the damage it deals hovers in the 20s, the results could easily favor doubling attack value. Assuming a silver sword, the attack value would be 102, which would deal 71 damage to a 31 defense unit as apposed to 60 damage in the same scenario.
I swear,it's always the 4% Crits.
OH HEY I remember that video I had to make because people thought crits roll even during misses AND override misses lol
Yeah... I'm still waiting for that video ^^U
Isn't that common sense? If you can't hit anything, what's the point of having extra damage for the miss?
Depends if you're using common sense to think logically or observing what the games show you and deciding based upon that.
The games are a bit misleading because they show you the critical animation before the blow is struck and every time you see the critical animation the attack is going to hit. It gives the impression the crit roll is done first because that's what's seen first, ergo 100% crit should trigger a critical every time and criticals always hit, so 100% crit should always hit regardless of what your hit is. Of course this isn't the way the games actually work, but crit almost never reaches 100% to prove it in normal gameplay and anything less can be explained by bad luck.
Logan Stallman Gamble: FE10 on Zihark 3rd tier reaches 100% with less than 100 hit.
shadowofchaos725 And I thought my Great Club Blacksmith Rinkah was impressive with her 60 hit and 65 crit. Riiip
I really liked this style of video. You should really keep it up! Good job to both Lucky Crit and Pavise!
I feel like the answer lies with the common response to RNG complaints with Xcom... you shouldn't rely on the RNG to win for you. There must've been something you could've done to mitigate bad RNG, like healing that Kent at 0:39 for example.
The whole problem is: If an enemy does 27 and crits, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO.
The character is 100% garunteed to die.
its much like the clip with the berserker and mc. 16% chance to land a hit of 20, and 4% chance to land a crit. yet, due to the devils own luck, that beserker crit for 60 damage. what could he have done to prevent that? grind some luck and skill stats? logically, there should have been no chance of that ever happening, but it did
I tend to err more on the "realism of war" and "fun unpredictability" side of things, but I also think there should always be something the player can do to handle or nullify the risk. For example, though I think enemy berserkers are really dumb, fates is uncharacteristically good at giving you options. Percy is essentially a local crit-barrier with his personal skill. Lilly's poise stacked with demoiselle and inspiration on Elise can decrease damage received by 7, and pair ups can stack with this, getting characters out of fatal range. Add rally defense with wyverns to the mix, and you have a lot of options.
...Oh... I just realized I listed mostly nohr exclusives
Welp, this just confirms what I already thought personally. Screw birthright
As a player who has been playing Fire Emblem since the GBA games, I agree that there are steps that can be taken to avoid the risk of getting critted MOST OF THE TIME. Such as having a well rounded team and taking advantage of enemy range limitations, hitting the lower stat, going in with your most evasive unit instead of your most tanky, using wepeapon advatage to increase dodge, or sending in a unit with alot of Luck stat.
That being said, sometimes you HAVE to engage a key unit in order to secure a possibility of surviving the next turn but once you kill that unit, you put your fate in the hands of the RNG because now the unit you attacked with is within range of multiple enemies with no way to pull out of the area. This is where most devastating enemy crits happen but you HAD to take that chance. If you hadn't killed the enemy you targeted, they were guaranteed to kill someone.
This is where Fire Emblem gets you. But it's okay because when you restart chapter, you can plan better for what you know is coming. I believe Fire Emblem is more than just a game. It's an experience of peraonal mental growth through trial and error and that's what keeps you coming back for more!
Well, awakening and Fates still have Dual Guard as a last, non-RNG line, of defense.
I haven't seen anyone say anything about the player getting an UNlucky crit. Imagine this:
You (a magic user) are within range of 3 enemies: 1 Archer (21 HP), and 2 Spear Fighters (22 HP apiece). It's the enemy's turn, and you have 27/27 HP. Diagram below: (pln. = plain) No skills are applicable here.
_____
|You|Tree|
|Pln.|Tree|
|Arc.|Tree|
|Spr.|Spr.|
|Pln.|Pln.|
On your turn, you attacked the Archer (who is now at 9 HP), and they missed their counterattack.
Enemy Phase: The Archer attacks. They deal 7 damage. You finish them off with your counterattack.
A Spear Fighter attacks. They deal 11 damage. Normally, you would do 10 damage to them, but a crit happens! "Time to play!" They cry out in pain as you cut their HP to zero.
The second Spear Fighter attacks. You pray for a miss, but their attack hits. Defeated, you find solace because at least they didn't crit you. Time to reset the game; you were a valuable unit to your team.
If you hadn't landed that critical, the second Spear Fighter wouldn't have had the chance to attack you and the chapter would continue after you were healed. THAT is the other bad side of criticals. Thank you for reading.
I love how most of these crit deaths are from mangs.
I thought Draug's demise seemed familiar!
I'd think critical hits are more a reminder to the player that something, nay, anything can and will go wrong in a game with permadeath, and that they should always be prepared to make the correct decision (or in some instances, the difficult one).
What i like about the criticial system is it gives more purpose to raising DEF/RES rather than becoming adodge tank or something op like dark mage with vantage and nosferatu tome.
Criticials are nearly useless when the opponent can only do 1-5 damage
The solution to character imbalance is to make the characters more focused on something and prevent them from gaining abilities that allows them to overtake other characters. Why should a mage get advantage on attack order and heal when they can get an intial attack in before the enemy even came close and can get stay buffs in all aspects through items? It's why I always hated the Archer feeling like I have an inferor mage that often can do everything.
The game is only about resetting when you mess up if you either make a careless decision with your main character (or just get unlucky, sure) or are trying to play a no-death run. Personally I like that critical hits force me to be cautious, and also put me in situations where sometimes a plan that SHOULD have gone well goes poorly, and now I have to figure out how to respond. But I can totally see why crits are frustrating too, especially for people who want a no-death run, so I'm glad they added casual mode for that reason.
I've found enemy critical hits to be few and far between. As the difficulty goes up they do become more frequent, but as Lucky crit stated, it adds some spice and flavour into an otherwise standard game. Is it frustrating when you're on the receiving end? Yes, but that's just sorta how it goes. You could tweak it I spose, but beyond that its a manageable system.
Really, the biggest gripes with enemy criticals, I've found, is the same gripes with fog of war, desert maps, swamp maps, ambushes and other forms of external influence, lack of control. People can't seem to handle having to slow down or adapt to the terrain, if it slows the level down, then its bad design, rather than a challenge to do something different.
Players can't handle when other things come into play, when some things go against them, and its the same with enemy criticals. Yes with the permadeath system its harsh, but enemy crits are so disproportionate to player crits, I see it as a necessary evil.
I'd much prefer being able to plan and strategize things, while also tempting fate, than playing the same game of chess with rearranged pieces and tiles.
Yeah, my only complaint about FOW and deserts are that they slow down the game... they do make for more interesting and varied gameplay though. On the note of enemy crits... if they have a 4% and especially for greater chances, I make sure that the unit going against them can survive such a blow, or to have a healer nearby just in case they do.
sometimes overkills and other times just what you absolutely need it I personally luv them just cause they keep things more interesting(mostly for the better in my book)plus they also look pretty cool and satisfying when pulled Of
I wish some -not all- of the crits were scripted like in echoes, because it just adds so much more emotion to the scene.
Also why Alm is best lord -except for maybe Leif-
But to be honest, i think unpredictable crits are a pretty cool game mechanic.
War is calculated chaos, Victory is never assured, and, most of all, *Life is precious* : This message is what I get out of criticals.
Argo Leaf cool story bro
When are any of Alm's crits scripted? You mean when he kills Duma? Hate to break it to you, but that isn't scripted, Alm does the speech when you roll an outcome that kills Duma. It doesn't even have to be a crit, from my knowledge.
Dont Panic WAIT ALM DOESNT HAVE ANY SCRIPTED CRITS!!??!?! BEATING ECHOES IS IMPOSSIBLE IM ON MY 3RD RESTART OF THE ENTIRE GAME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Let's also not forget Fates brought Crit rates up to 4x
4x?
OverlordDystroy yeah. Fixed that.
Colton Zuspan Only on Killer weapons though, and they did have their might reduced. Still hilariously broken when you've got a 64% x2 chance to get them, though.
Personally, I think Fates in general (at least PvP wise) was too RNG based when it came to crits, and, to a certain extent, skill activation. For PvP in my non-hacker experience, it comes down to "Who can crit/proc an Ignis/Dragon Fang/Lethality first." But yeah, Killer weapons having 4x crit damage is just disgusting.
Lendin Swiftbolt *insert Fire Emblem Heroes Ephriam D I S G U S T I N G meme here*
I'm sorry to say that the joy i feel when one of my units lands a random crit is much smaller than the hate i feel when a random brigand lands a 1% critical hit on my favorite unit and gets me to restart the chapter.
*Critical Hits are always a great addition to Tactical RPGS, not only FE but other titles like Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre*
It adds the randomness that a unit got distracted for a second and it costed them their life or at least massive injuries....and frankly, if you depend solely on luck for victory then you need to revise your strategies.
*Leave luck to the RNG and focus what you can to the upmost of your abilities*
Who said solely on luck ? When an enemy has a 10 percent chance to hit me and a 4 percent chance to crit on top of this and he DOES land a crit, I'd say I was pretty well covered and made a safe move with 0.4% chance of failure. That's not relying on luck yet I still got to restart that chapter.. When you play on hard there isn't always a way to make the enemy have 0% or to kill every unit that has a lethal weapon without retaliation.
I dunno, I tend to be very lucky anyways XD
Criticals are like the cherry on top of fire emblem, my most vivid memory of it is a castle battle where Ryoma (my last unit left) activated Astra (what I let count as critical because its also based on stats) 3 times (and dodged well) and I won. The adrenaline was real
Critical hits aren't just disruptive elements. They are also part of the stretagy. You have to mind the enemies with a big crit % and you have to learn how to boost and better use your units with higher crt% (Has a small example, in radiant dawn an archer with the gamble skill had a 70% chance of doing a critical. And if you gave him an heros bow that would equal 4 crit attacs. Not even the dragons at the end of the game were able to witstand this) BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, the crt hits breath life into the characters. That way they aren't just lifless objects over whom you have absolut control. They became " real" Individuals capable of incredible acts that save the day or faliurs. Think about it in most games if you fail you feel frustated with yourself but in FE when a character messes up you get mad at him just as if he was a real person an this in turn gives more substance to the characters and makes them more tangible.
Critical hits are essential to the Fire Emblem experience in my perspective. Even enemy criticals. Shouzo Kaga made Fire Emblem to be a game with connection to the characters and felling both their triumph and pain. Critical hits and other RNG-based mechanics were chosen to help players have unexpected wins and losses. Making them surprises can add both emphasised emotions and stakes. They also show a greater depiction of war in that they are upsets, and show help players to not have a completely counculated experience, which make the game less fun. Common arguments against RNG in Fire Emblem are mostly fueld by loss aversion, which makes sense since it's natural, so while I usually don't agree with them, they do make sense since and should be expected with a permanent death system (especially when RNG is thrown in to the mix). When addressing That One Video Gamer's argument, it's important to know that resseting is not intentional at all in Fire Emblem and in a sense, can be viewed as cheating. While the developers most likely are completely aware players do this, the can't and (in my opinion) shouldn't design the game with exploits and tricks that they didn't mean to put there.
Just thought I’d mention that killer weapons in Fates actually have a 4x damage modifier on top of the +25 crit chance. The more you know
I also agree to an extent with what you're trying to convey, but in a way, it adds to the amount of caution and calculation that goes into your strategy. It also depends on your playstyle. If you're playing with weak units who can easily be disposed of by a 3x attack, you want to make more defensive strategic measures. It's common sense to put higher defensive units on the front lines. Units with more health, and a weapon advantage will more likely be able to withstand a critical hit even if it seems unlikely for them to trigger. Same goes for attacking. I always gauge my opponent's critical hit chance before initiating a battle. If my opponent is a melee user and it seems likely they will crit, (15% is my limit) I try to damage the enemy with a ranged unit first, then deal the finishing blow with my own melee unit. It all comes down to strategy. And when the odds are against you and you can't make such simple calculations, it encourages the player to be creative.
I honestly think Pavise's argument is solid, and more coherent with crafting an enjoyable game to experience. As in, criticals should still exist, just have their effectiveness lowered, specially in a game with perma death.
Take X-Com 2, for instance. Tactical RPG, Perma Death, Squad Building. All common properties that are shared with Fire Emblem.
However, in X-Com, positioning matters WAY more (and thus, more in control of the player; in Fire Emblem, I feel the most strategic choice is often just walking together and baiting single enemies with tanky units) and criticals matters WAY less (Criticals do not multiply damage, every weapon has a fixed bonus damage; The very last shotgun tier in X-com 2, which does 8-10 damage, crits for merely +5 before any soldier skills that may modify crit damage slightly).
The variety of damage that Lucky Crits speak of, in X-com, is already built in regular weapon damage, and thus the need for crits to be what keeps combat from becoming stale is unecessary.
Thanks to these characteristics, X-Com makes it so that Critical hits the player suffer feel significantly more fair - Soldiers will often survive if at a relatively healthy condition before being their victims, and in most cases they already only happen, at all, based on poor positioning - and by poor positioning I don't mean "Fragile soldier in range of an enemy", but "Completly flanked by an enemy".
All mechanics in a game are to create interesting decisions - but if a unit of mine has 29 hitpoints, and an enemy unit is hitting it for 10, crit 3% and the crit provides an instant death, no relevant decision but alpha striking that unit from range is viable if I am to take into consideration the 3% chance for that unit to kill mine; so what usually happens is we completly ignore the low crit chance that would spell instant doom, simply because it's not feasible, within most Fire Emblem games, to COMPLETLY avoid all units that have a 2 or 3% crit that would kill one of your soldiers.
A mechanic that you ignore most of the time, yet it can instantly compromise your gameplay, does not sound to me like a properly functioning mechanic.
Really good video, i loved it! you & Lucky Crit managed the topic perfectly! even the emotional part felt amazing!
Personally, I've always found that critical hits are at their best when they happen to my units, but don't kill. It's an unpredictable situation that quickly raises the tension, yet still allows for counterplay as I reevaluate my strategy to accommodate for the change in gamestate. The problem is with how rarely this happens, due to how powerful crits are.
In a way, I like how Echoes addressed this. Sure, you can use the turnwheel to rewind back to before the crit happened, but the impact remains. Suddenly, you know your original strategy would result in an *un* lucky crit, so even without your unit being at risk you're forced to change your plans and come up with a way to circumvent that.
If only we weren't all experienced save scummers who know how to abuse the rng system...
I think the best thing fire emblem has done with critical hits is with the character portraits cutting in with a quote. Adds more to the characters other than just supports
Loved hearing both sides of the case! I like crits because they can help certain characters (like Fir and Rutger) train better instead of dying to high damage throughout a duel. I just put my tankier units out front, so that crucial enemy crits do not often become a problem for me.
But in real war, almost every hit is a critical hit
actual war simulator are the best anti war games. where you died in one hit and don't respawn and you learn why soldiers waste 250,000 bullets per kill.
Kasino Kaiser XD
lol, yeah it's interesting to finish a good rpg then go LARP and get killed in one move! XD
Medieval weapons also aren't honestly that deadly
Yes, just what I wanted you to make! With another one of my fav. RUclipsrs as well! Yea, it's important to understand how crits work. I do think they are a good representation of war. Ever since I picked up HEMA I've come to see moments of "critical hits" when I fight with my partners. Granted I know it's not a perfect representation of war, but it's still a little taste. There are just some strikes you can not recover from.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Mila's Turnwheel. It's one of the best things to happen to the series in my opinion, eliminating those unlucky moments where you get killed by a 2% crit (unless it's Alm or Celica but oh well).
You didn't mention two of the biggest problems with crits.
Situation A: you're trying to train one of your lower-leveled units, so you try to weaken an enemy that will give a bunch of XP. Random crit, wasted XP, sadness.
Situation B: your tank is blocking a choke and can survive x enemies so that no more can attack him. Random crit, an enemy unexpectedly dies, and x+1 enemies attack your tank, so he ends up dying.
Con: you always get a crit and kill the boss when you just wanted to soften it up so a weaker party member could deal the final blow and get the experience.
In fact, it generates a number between 0 and 99, to allow 1% Crits.
2:45 is that from a Mangs LP? It wouldn't surprise me if it was...
Owen Kennedy it is, I was hearing him screaming in my mind
The 200% Crit Jaffar was from a video i've seen somewhere
Moulder is also from Mangs
There's that moment when Ryoma gets a non-stop string of critical hits,
and then there's that time when my OP Jakob died to a 1% chance critical hit.
Thank goodness for casual mode.
I say, yea, let us keep the hits most critical in the games, to challenge us and make us feel emotions.
the main issue with critical hits is the stakes. Few people make a play banking on something that has less than a 50% chance of happening. They usually play in a relatively safe manner, so getting a crit is a convenience for them at best. Getting crit, on the other hand, means auto death. Even though the player is more likely to get a crit, the balance still tilts in favor of souring the experience. It will remain that way for as long as losing a unit remains a crippling loss.
Great vid, but I think it would have been good to mention that crits haven't always just been triple damage, and that Kaga's reasoning for using crits was to encourage the player to utilise the replacement units
crits as a part of tactics are possibly the manifestation of desperation in a character... in war, desperation can be a key part but is much more logical than you think... think of yourself in a similar scenario, in the game, it is the player that moves the units as though they were pieces on a chessboard... but in actual war, it is the soldiers themselves who make the decisions on their own. you could say the leader or strategist gave you a goal to achieve this battle at the start of it but it is up to you how to achieve that goal. but back to the concept of desperation, put yourself in the character's shoes. you, as that character are on your own and you hear enemies just about to overwhelm you... that's when the adrenaline starts pumping, that's when the desperation sets in. and when you see a possible chance to take out an enemy within your perception you take that chance... hopefully you can blitz through your opponents and survive on just the rush alone. now remember desperation and adrenaline can force you to think or act faster than normal.... for a brutish character that means more power in their strikes... for those that rely on precision and getting that perfect hit at their vitals... and desperation when used by a mage can become a powerful source of magical energy in some aspects of fiction.
Except this isnt real life and there are many things that go against that like a character with armor so powerful that it prevents any sort of loss normally, but not enough to get lax on a master swordsman whos life is battle. It's nice to have real life justification of something, but that doesn't supercede gameplay unless that is what your game is about. Something like Arma.
@@thelaw3536 that's a good point...
IMO simple answer to criticals. Treat a critical hit less like a death attack and more like an incapacitation. Kind of like how some important characters will not die, but suffer permanent damage and escape for story reasons. Treat it like the character was rendered unconscious by the powerful blow. Meaning they don't die, but they are no longer a part of that map. While most players may still restart to give that character experience or training, it also can be a feature on attacking enemies as well.
Good arguments from both sides. I think a decent compromise would be to have crits do double damage instead of triple.
Losing one of the extra cavaliers, either Trec or Noah, in FE 6 by being critical hit by a slow boss with 1% hit and 1% crit, which killed him (he could have survived 2 normal hits), when I was about to beat him... That was a fun time. Very memorable rage. I made up for it by getting Rutger to 105% crit, to exact revenge upon every enemy thereafter.
Yay, because as long as Hit rate exists, Crits should exist as well.
Why should I miss my attack at 99% when I can’t be able to crit at 1 % crit rate.
If it is as tactical as you say, then hit rate should be included as well.
(This isn’t hate message, just a counter argument to the point on unpredictable outcomes beyond your control.)
Missing an attack at 99% results in missing a single attack, a much tamer result (the majority of the time) than taking the force of a triple damage 1% critical. Both may have a 1% chance of happening, but a critical (most of the time) is much more devastating. I'm not against forces beyond the player's control, I have a whole video justifying the role of RNG in the series. Yet, critical hits often feel like a step over the line due to their ridiculous damage multiplier, especially considering permanent death's prominence in the series.
Pavise Productions
I do understand, but with missing a hit, it could lead to death because you might be at few hp and one last unit to kill in an area.
You have high hit rate yet miss and get counter attacked. It was all rng, that you missed.
In hard game modes, you have to take risks, and risks are heavy on hit rate.
Sure, a crit is usually not expected, but so his missing.
I would also bring up skills like luna or rend heaven. They can sometimes be more effective than crits.
In a game like Echoes and Revelations, I really depended on critting.Tobin (sage) would usually only use excalibur to get crits because he couldn’t kill without critting.
Critting is a strategy when you wield killer weaopns. Yea, enemies do have access to critting.
The rng behind critting is just like you said, It is luck. It can make you feel that you have no control.
... but is that not the same with missing.
Even the enemy hitting you at 20 or 30 % can be ridiculous.
I would say that hit rates are just as annoying and missing on high or enemy hitting on low happens more than critting does, which causes hit rate to be more of an annoyance.
Selena Honor I get what you're saying but your arguments kind of suck ass. Hits and crits don't carry the same weight in strategy, and one is much easier to mitigate and work around than the other.
Recently, during the final chapter in Thracia 776, my team had trouble dealing with the center-northern boss who had access to both Astra and Luna.
But fortunately, my Tanya landed a critical hit with the Brave Bow and finished the job o_O
I think they could use the Fire Emblem Heroes system to calculate specials, for hit rate and critical hits. That way it can still give somewhat the illusion of being random and ads depth to the game.
The critical hit system in Genealogy is somehow very good in making most of these Cons inoperative.While dealing slightly different Bonus damage than the usual criticals, it's basically player-exclusive and even for the Player, they are far away from breeing essential and it isn't impossible to Play through the whole game without even noticing their existance.
Critical hits is pretty much a double-edged sword. When you crit. you destroy your enemy. But when they crit. They can ruin you so fast.
Hell my First chapter in Fire emblem Awakening. As my Avatar. I was attacked by a Myrmidon for one damage. Then a mage follows up. And Critical hits me for just enough damage to kill me. I was like...AAAHH SHIT! it's not a fun feeling when the least expected, happens.
Actually here's one thing people have not talked about. Strategy. Dealing with critical hits is important strategy. If you're ignoring them or they're sneaking up on you, you're not playing perfectly. Obviously you can play nearly perfect and just get unfairly shafted but it could have been avoided. In Fire Emblem I see three types of damage and three kinds of defense: physical, magical and crit. Each of the, have their own defense stats such as def, res and luck (luck decreases enemy crit chance). It means when fighting an enemy a lot of times you'll need to play to a character's strengths to avoid critical hits. Some guy has a crit chance? Put him up against a unit with high enough luck to void the crit chance or put him up against a unit who can take the hit. There's tools to deal with crits but you have to make sure to use them.
And thus came casual mode in the newer games so new players, like myself not long ago, could get through without losing a unit to rng, still I like the crit mechanic, and I’m just glad that they made a mode where permadeath didn’t exist
I think the point of critical hits is both to give players a chance against impossible odds, but more importantly it was a way for the developers to nearly ensure that the player will at some point lose a unit. I think the main idea behind the design was to make use of the permadeath mechanic to make everyone's playthroughs that much more different and make the game that much more replayable.
The problem with this design is that players get so attached to these characters or feel such a desire for perfection that they are much more likely to restart a chapter than to accept the death of one of their few units that they chose to keep on the front lines. I struggle to think of a way for the developers to promote players accepting the loss of units in this way, but something must change for the permadeath mechanic to become integral to the experience and not just a hindrance and annoyance to players that would rather redo entire sections of gameplay to avoid it.
The main way I can think is to autosave at every action so if a character dies the player can't reload a save to bring them back, but this would likely still turn more people away from the game than encourage exploring new characters after a hole appears in your starting line-up. Maybe having character deaths profoundly impact the story might encourage some to see where the story goes after losing a unit, whereas currently the only thing that changes is the player having one less tool, making it more worth it to reload and preserve them.
What I think ? The overwhelming feeling of losing to a critical hit is the same of being Stabbed into the back by a close friend ... I think the point of them being so obnoxious and scary is to put the player under the pressure of being under something bigger than him ... something that demise the player... thus making the player lose hope or to feel such ardent wrath towards that thing , just as the characters do.
Fire emblem makes you feel each hit you take fear any miscalculation and the unknow possibilities of unvoidable deaths
Think about it , it has a sense of realism. Like maybe i was aiming for an opponent's arm but I hit a vital artery instead i didn't mean to do something that potentially damaging but it happened any way ,maybe a inch difference in where a hit lands is the difference between life and death.
I would love to try the happy medium here:
A total absence of critical hit rates,
but with the standard hit rates and classic+reset fundamentals left intact.
I think one of the best arguments for critical hits that wasn't mentioned is the tactical aspect. Some sets are built entirely around critical hits - for example, Ophelia with Death Blow and Mjölnir scores incredibly reliable critical hits. Or even in a more casually played main story, equipping a high skill unit with a "Killing" weapon can be a viable, albeit slightly risky, strategy. (Lon'qu in Awakening) I also agree with the argument that the critical hit animations are a great feature throughout the Fire Emblem games, especially early on when active abilities are few. However, I don't quite believe that this offsets the devastating impact of losing a unit due to a low percent critical hit, and I'd agree that there should be some nerf to crit. (making it 2x damage or less likely on AI)
_not to mention when you're trying to weaken a unit so your less experienced characters can get the kill and level up and you fucking crit with a 3% chance_
the critical hit system of fire emblem... there are ways to avoid it, so you have some control over it... i like it
Yes! Another Pavise vid! Hype
Critical hits can vary from game to game. To be honest, I don't really like them because it feels like they work against me far more often than they work for me.
This is just my opinion, but I think the harder the game punishes you for failiure the less impact luck should have on your ability to succeed/fail. When I fail, I want it to be because I suck rather than because the random number generator gave me the middle finger. Getting a lucky crit and winning when I should have lost is nice, but not when the price of that good feeling is 20 other times where I die to some random enemy getting a wicked crit and one shotting a favorite character.
I love critical hits mainly for the great quotes and sick animations.
personally i like. it creates actual, devastating, stakes
When the enemy lands that 1% crit... RIP Hana, never even got to use you.
i tend to come down on the pro crit side, because i rarely lose soldiers solely to a crit, and i often beat unkillable juggernauts of bosses with a killing edge. Hell, the only specific instance i can think of where i made no mistakes on the strategy side and still lost a character i liked to a critical hit was when ilyana bit an arrow that one shotted her.
Crits with Lucky Crit
Still using the Faith & Engagement album, I see... I love it!
Forget critical hits - battlefield mortality, especially during the medieval era, is a lot lower than you'd expect. Anyone wearing armor would be salvageable later, especially if healing magic exists, which could allow mortal blows on even lightly armored allies to be reversed.
If we wanted a more accurate portrayal, we'd have formation fighting and routing enemies (they break and run away).
It pretty much boils down to how comfortable you are with RNG in your game.
I was hoping this was some sort of "this is how crits are truly calculated" like with the double roll system
To answer your question, critical hits have always been rolled with Single Roll. Each game calculates the crit rate on a game by game basis.
Arthur got critted on in Conquest by a Faceless with a 1% chance. I was not very surprised.
I'll always remember one shotting the demon king in FE8 with a myrrh crit. As well as the time my friend lost myrrh to the demon king's crit.
I just remembered that time Nino got a crit on Nergal and killed him. Man that felt good.
This reminds me of that time Gallade got Palla killed by a 2% crit making him completely stop playing echoes for a while
7:00
(Flashback on Chapter 15 fighting Valter with my entire army i was sure would survive.)
Innes :( ....
It an accurate representation of war but I most said they could also had a systeme of 3 type of crit (that would be role on the crit itself)
Exemple:
If the unite got 1% crit it would only have a X1.5
If the unite got above 5% the next % would get a X2.25 (but would keep the X1.5 for the frist 5% Exemple: if you got 7% you would have 5% of X1.5 and 2% of X2.25)
If the unite got above 10% the next % would get a X3 (Exemple: if you got 25% Crit rate you would have a 5% of X1.5 a 5% of X2.25 and a 15% of X3)
This would reduce the frustration of the 1 to 4% Crit rate on your unite... But it would also reduce your chance of geting critical damage whit a unite that lack Skill and Luck...
This would make Skillfull unite also fell a bit more impactfull than just geting higher Hit rate because if they can get a high Crit rate they could get bonnus for it.
(It would also be a accurate representation of War The ppl whit high Skill and Luck would stumble less on themself and would find more hole into the enemies armor.)
SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH
I do like crit but it could use some improvement a bit on Low %
I can still remember when I had a unit with a 8% crit chance do 4 crits in a row
The only crits in Fire Emblem I remember are the ones that allowed a random solder to one shoot my heroes.
Another great video keep up the good work man.
Fire emblem, to me, is a game about risk management and strategy - crit and miss chances play an integral role in the first part of that. While I could agree with your criticisms if the player was not told crit chances, or if crtis were a flat rate independent of the units' stats, a great deal of fun in a fire emblem game for me is weighing the odds and doing the math to find the best solution to the turn. To say that random chance detracts from the strategy of the game is simply false - instead, it adds a further layer of complexity for the player to consider when planning their turn, which, in my opinion only serves to enhance the experience.
I think they should make critical hits 1.5× instead of 3×. This way, there's some degree of unpredictability, but you can still assure units will be safe even in the case of enemy criticals.
The crits have helped me more than it hurt me
Of course, Pavise can help negate some of the effects of an (un)Lucky Crit. :P
Oh god, I remember that Fates clip with Odin. That was absolutely nuts.
Also, didn't know you couldn't crit if you can't hit. I thought if you crit, it's a garrenteed hit. Ex. 0 Hit, 100 Crit = a hit. Guess not.
There's only one thing I know about critical hits, and that is that my units with 98 crit have a much lower chance of actually landing a crit than the enemy with 2.
Me, an intellectual: "They should get back to Jugdral's iteration of critical hits"
Could one argue for enemies not being able to land crits? Every one of your units is normally a prodigy or above average in their department so they shouldn’t have any issues evading crits.
At least for soldier units. Bosses are an exception
What if Frits couldn't drop you below 1 health unless the normal hit would've killed you anyway? That way it still puts you on edge and in danger but doesn't outright kill in one attack and if it does "omae wa mou shinderu!".
My only addition to this video would be that crits in the Jugdral games work differently, to mixed results. First, in FE4 alone, you need to have the Critical skill to be able to crit, or be wielding a weapon like a Killer weapon (or a weapon that has killed 50 enemies). From there it procs off of a percent chance based on skill, as if it were any other skill activation. In FE5 they activate mostly as normal, but each character has a hidden PCC stat, or Pursuit Critical Coefficient, which acts as a multiplier to crit chance when making their second attack of a single combat round (or second set of attacks, if using a Brave-effect weapon). This ranges from 0, or no crit chance, to 5, or practically a guaranteed crit.
The most important part though is that both these games handle crit damage differently than every other FE game. Instead of tripling your final damage number (aka (atk-def)*3), they double your BASE attack, before defense is subtracted ((atk*2)-def). This makes crits incredibly valuable on weaker units like swordmasters, allowing them to deal major damage to generals which they might otherwise not be able to hurt at all, whilst also making crits vs units with less armor, like mages, less impactful, though still likely to kill.
While this doesn’t change the main point of the video, it does add on some commentary in terms of the critical system having already attempted some iterations, instead of staying completely stagnant for almost 30 years.
Yeah, missing how the Jugdral games treat criticals was the biggest oversight when this video was made.
I know for a fact that at least one or two of these clips come from mangs, don't say I blame you thought cause his luck stat makes Donnel blush
I love getting hit by a 25% hit with 4% crit as a crit
As a life-long FE fan, I agree the crits are unnecessarily absurd. I'd rather they be 2x damage. It would benefit the player far more than just then.
I forgot his name but the red head guy who was a swordmaster from fe8 took and the last boss by himself and landed 3 critical hits in one turn killing the Final boss. I was like, that was anticlimactic...
Who’s gotten crit after crit during the enemy phase and ur unit dies
I really like crit, actually. I don't really get upset when I have to reset a map unless I spent a particularly long time on it or I have to give up some really good level ups, and, since I don't really do LTC runs, usually playing turn-by-turn instead of planning everything out ahead of time, I tend to view bad luck in a similar light to bad play.
I swear annoying enemy units in the prologue where you get ryoma's son is just painful as they have basically no hit but just crit all my units so even after I formulate a plan to rescue the character my units just die to a random crit that really annoyed me
Crits are my preferred form of gambling in Fire Emblem. I'd rather risk dealing a small amount of damage than missing altogether with, say, a Berserker with a 30% even WITH weapon triangle advantage.