The pixelation really wasn't a issue in 1993, when everyone had CRT monitors. Playing the 320x240 mode on a LCD screen doesn't come close to making justice to what it actually looked like.
@@anterob.1091 640 x 480 felt like a DREAM when it became available. My frame rate suffered on a 486DX33, but with 8MB of RAM, I was actually doing pretty good if I kept my HDD defragmented, lol! 😂 Those were the days.
To this day, people STILL download my "Darkhell" and "Blakhell" episodes (18 maps total) which I made back in 1996. CARMACK JUST KNEW HOW TO DESIGN SOMETHING ENGAGING. You can immediately play and have fun. The ambient sounds instantly clue you in. No tutorials are required. No insane skill trees with 16,384 options, no complicated "combos" to learn, and no ridiculously tough situations where you cannot progress unless you're some uber-elitist gaming zoidaloid. Just pure epic awesomeness. The music was perfect, too.
I mean not being able to look up and down was really a hardware limitation at the time. Doom ran at 35fps on a 486DX2 66MHz which felt unbelievably smooth on a 70Hz CRT. Marathon on the other hand played in a tiny window, had a very narrow field of view and ran at around 5-12fps on period correct hardware (like the Macintosh Performa 600, Or Quadra 700). Ultimately it felt more like a "strategy shooter" in comparison to a fast paced "action shooter" like Doom. It wasn't like Carmack couldn't make Doom with "free look" and a z-axis, but the locked camera angle and column based rendering was an area where he could speed up the game immensely. And it was WELL WORTH IT! Heck! back then you were lucky if you had a 486 at home, a lot of players played the game on a 386 with half horizontal resolution and a window of a postage stamp. It's easy to look back at Marathon with rose tinted eyes. But that's not really how it played back then. Doom actually played about the same that it does now.
I liked the video, but the creator clearly sees Marathon with that "kid's magical eyes", remembering of his good ole days... This effect is often more about feelings and longing about the past than reality.
There is something so good about it's player move mechanics and the way the enemies respond to your shoots and a lot of other tiny things, that even when I go back from a modern port and play it on retro PC or even one of the junky console ports, it still feels good. Like I was testing games in sega 32x and I would load a game just to to see how it looks, I would play it for 2 minutes and then switched to another one. When I switched to Doom, despite the small screen and bad music and weird controls, I wanted to sit there and play some more. They've done something so good with the original mechanics that at least to me even playing the old janky versions still keep me playing.
I haven't thought about Marathon for quite awhile. A big reason why it wasn't more popular was because I believe it was an Apple exclusive. A lot of people didn't own a Mac for various reasons.
The thing about the arsenal is also that choosing to pistol start or not can be s vastly different experience for a given level. The new legacy of trust map pack has an excellent example of this with its coiled city level. If you pistol start, the only weapons you will find in the level are the incinerator, the rocket launcher and the calamity blade. And you will be pressed for ammo the whole time. But if you bring the wealons from the previous level you can being a fully loaded super shot gun which can be a massive help in the tighter sections of the level
Best game ever made, for me. Co op on consoles with this new release is incredible Also, there's much more strategy to Doom than you're implying! Especially if we're talking modern day megawads but even the originals on harder difficulty levels. Map navigation can go so many different ways if you don't tackle it right, and every weapon has it's rightful utility, choose wisely!
"very pixelated" yeah, all games were like that back then, even more pixelated, c64 only had 160x200 resolution. we didnt complain that was normal back then. there wasnt anything better. my fathers 386 could only play doom at 15-25 fps at 160x200 , I was happy I could play doom, instead of rolling my eyes and shouting oh my god how pixelated it is. btw there is something with todays displays that make old games look more pixelated than how they really looked.
Its the resolution of most moniters now. Back then the resolution wasnt hi def, so the pixels were sort of blended to make a form we know and love. Now the screens are extra sharp, the pixels are more noticable. But somehow the game still holds artistically.
@@frankunbaphomet3206 yeah something like that I know that crt TVs smeared the pixels, I watched that shit for 2 decades before lcd pixels, but somehow CRT monitor pixels were already very well defined, maybe lcd pixels are even more crisper than CRT monitor pixels.
I would play some of it's mods. Especially marathon:isoteria with it's interesting complexity and RPG mechanics weirdly working to enhance the gameplay... Which is absurd considering how often RPG mechanics usually poison the whole FPS experience.
LOL. Mac users. They were so excited about the first real video game for their platform. They would go on and on about how superior it was. Even though the color and graphics design etc... was complete garbage.
@@Ahamshep yes, thats called nostalgia, and its absolutly cool. And dont try to Tell me the gameplay or colors where better in Wolf 3d, doom or whatever Windows opponent
Not being able to look up/down is better imo than the warped effect that would have happened if Carmack had allowed it (like in Build engine). Also Carmack was working on the Quake engine during Doom 2's development, that's why it fell behind Bungie, technology-wise. Didn't know that they'd built room-over-room though, very impressive
Yeah looking up in Duke 3D (and I assume Marathon as well) makes me feel sick lol. It's as if you drew the screen with very high vertical FOV and then cropped the entire bottom of the image off rather than actually tilting the camera up.
You can look up and down in the DOOM engine, this wasn't a feature for DOOM 1-2 but other games that used the DOOM engine like Heretic and Hexen had this feature also if it's that big of a deal just use the GZDOOM sourceport
To the crowd talking about how looking up and down was a limitation of the time; Ultima Underworld from 1992, over a year before Doom, was fully 3d and had the ability to look up and down. The problem was is wasn't made with a fast engine.
First of all, Doom 2 has bigger levels, new enemies, and the legendary Double Barrel Shotgun. It might not have been graphically better, but it improved in other areas. The new enemies were the icing on the cake for me-they made the game so much better than the first one. Doom 2 for life!
Classic Doom is technical, artistical and design marvel. And the gameplay was an upped version of the adrenaline fueled shooting they nailed with Wolfenstein 3D. I would say that ability to look up and down could have detracted from the action, without adding much, besides in 2.5D games looking up and down doesn't look good.
You know what has aged really well for me? The enemy design. All the demons are so iconic and good-looking to me. And Doom Eternal really proves this by making all designs as close the originals as possible.
@@eggwhitepopcorn2918 I agree. That is the one design I thought was better in 2016. Should have had that, with green fire blades and the hairy legs the classic had.
@@erikpng 2016s Baron filled the quota of "basic red cartoon demon" and eternal didn't really have that. Classic doom had both the pinkies and the Baron. I started replaying 2016 today and the barons of that game (as well as the rest of the demons lol) are way more menacing than the ones we got in eternal. I do like the Eternal barons, but I think they should've been their own thing.
Change the size and color of your targeted reticle (300%ish) to help with vertical targeting. Mine switches to big and magenta when I’m targeting them even when I can’t see well. That also helps for hitting shots while strafing quickly on controller.
@@allyoucangamebuffet I still come back to Doom/Doom II almost as a palette cleanser between sweaty-ass modern games. The simplicity of it never gets old.
The midi music is great. It's a shame you have no idea because wavetable audio made this so damn good. Check out roland sound canvas doom as an example! This was incredible for the time. Also Doom 2 was a full retail release rather than a sequel. The original shareware model meant it wasn't really in shops.
Great vid man, keep it up, I like your commentary. About Doom, not much to say, simply one of the best games of all time, having eternal or 2016 with whatever mods you want is heavenly!
"marathon" you probably needed the highest end PCs of the time to run it the quality you show to us, but I doubt even that was possible what is that resolution ? PCs costed much more compared to today, such a pc that could run marathon in the resolution you like must have costed as much as a new car.
2:00 I feel that so hard 😂😂😂 we also had an apple PC, and i wasnt able to play all that Windows Games. So I played Marathon for years so hard, that i thought im living on Lohown. Hint to everyone who dont know: Marathon Classic is now aviable on Steam for Free
MIDI music weirdly gets a bad rap. We don't look down on Megaman or SMB music on NES for essentially being the same thing, we rightly see it as iconic and a smart solution to creating music when it was completely implausible to ship something like a large sound file. There's a whole subculture around FM synthesis chips and retro sound cards. It can give you an appreciation for how iconic and cool the Doom soundtrack is, and how cool the technology actually is (was). Still, it's cromulent to prefer the remix that comes with the Kex engine release.
Saying that Marathon is more technically advanced than Doom is a mistake. Blame it on Apple. Marathon came a year after Doom, a year after Ultima Underworld 2(the first-person RPG with actual 3D environments), and two years after Virtua Fighter (the first actual 3D fighting game). Oh, and Magic Carpet from 1994. Doom defined the "3D open-world gameplay experience" as we know it today without using any actual 3D because it would be unfeasible with the era's technology. It used Wolfenstein3D as a base engine and some clever applied math from Space Oracle Wizard John Carmack. And PC, of course.
The real root of Doom's success is something that nobody ever seems to talk about - the entire FPS genre was effectively a minor, largely superficial evolution... of 2D sidescrollers. Not even an exaggeration. Look at Id's own heritage - look at the transition from Keen to Wolfenstein, and you can see it more clearly. Wolfenstein (and Doom) are 2D games. There is no traversable third dimension (Doom only has the visual illusion of it - you can't actually traverse a third dimension). Wolfenstein and Doom are basically 2D sidescrollers... laid flat on the ground. This is why the levels work so well - the finite ammo, the hand-placed enemies, the simple AI that is transformed into complex, unique gameplay by the level geometry itself... it's a finely-tuned 2D sidescroller/simplified dungeon crawler, with a first person camera. A lot of people think that Doom was some revolutionary "new" thing - it's the opposite. It was the refined and polished end result of Id iterating what they knew about game design across multiple titles - Doom was the culmination of their work. Sadly, the fact that nobody bothers to actually study these games and really understand what they are and why they work... has resulted in modern game development suffering heavily, and losing some important lessons. I could write an entire essay about everything that Doom 2016 did wrong, objectively and from the perspective of basic level design principles, but I'll sum it up by saying - original Doom games? A door was a door. Doom 2016? A door was often not a door at all. This might seem like a minor point, but level design is all about creating a visual language... the original Doom games spoke an elegant, pristine and universal language. Modern Doom doesn't know what language it's speaking.
You know you can mod Doom to add look up/down, right? I'm actually surprised it's not a standard option in this modern re-release. But, honestly, when playing with a controller at least, it's actually less hassle not having to mess around with looking up and down imo, and the vertical auto aiming is implemented so well that I very rarely even notice looking up/down isn't even there. With a mouse and keyboard though, having the look up/down is my preferred way of playing. Does this Doom 1+2 remaster have the Aubrey Hodges soundtrack from PlayStation Doom (my favourite of any Doom game ever)? If not, that's a huge miss imo, as it really makes Doom something special that just isn't the same with the more heavy metal music for me. In my opinion PlayStation Doom is still the single best version of Doom out there. And it's because of that soundtrack combined with the PlayStation controller plus everything that makes classic Doom so good. It's about as "Doom" as it gets imo. I'd recommend you give that version a proper go if you can. It feels like Doom 3's atmosphere had a baby with Doom, and is the best of all worlds as far as I'm concerned. PS. I can tell you have a preference for Marathon and would probably like to convince people it's ultimately a better game, but it's just not to actually play imo. Yes, it's technically more advanced in many ways, but it's simply far more clunky and unsatisfying moving around and shooting and so on, and that's almost certainly why it hasn't endured like Doom has. Also, I just downloaded and tried it, and that tiny window it's in with all the HUD crap taking up much of the screen really ruins things imo. Marathon 2 is better in that regard, but it still just feels meh to actually control/play compared to Doom. And being able to look up/down doesn't change my opinion on that. I'm sure it was all extremely impressive and cutting edge for it's time, but it holds up nowhere near as well as Doom in the areas that actually matter imo. Again, which is why I think the original Doom persists and Marathon is just a footnote in the history of the fps genre.
I was waiting for you to mention playing Doom with one of its source ports, specifically GZDoom, but it wasn't there. Yes, the original Doom engine technically doesn't allow for looking up, but certain source ports (GZDoom) do. In all honesty, I played a bit of Doom with Nightdive's kex engine wrapper, and it's actually a subpar experience. GZDoom not only lets you look vertically, but also adds other features found in modern games (slopes, rooms above rooms, transparency, water areas). There are a lot of Doom mods that take these features in mind; Mega Man 8 Bit Death Match is one of my favorites. You should really give the PC version another try. I'm also certain that there is controller support.
@@Leviverzyden I played some of that mod, but it's not my favorite. You can also check out Quake Champions: Doom Edition; it's a demake of the Quake Champions game, with excellent multiplayer.
Wait, what? Rooms above rooms? Sorry but I thought that was just mapping trickery? I've heard that it was as per fan request and the *old, old* source ports (a la Boom,) there was a new function added (LineDef Portal from what I've heard) that allowed you to create the illusion of stacked rooms when you were really just being teleported to another point in the map. A.k.a "silent teleportation."
@@pseudonym6895 modern source ports, specifically GZDoom, allow for fully 3D environments. They built games like Selaco that have multiple heights and slopes and such.
nice video, but you lost me when you said DOOM's music wasn't very good or iconic? Literally some of gamings most well known and loved music, very few aren't aware or like E1M1 for example.
The Marathon engine was wildly inferior to Doom. No, it couldn't look up and down (the remake you're using in your footage can, but that's besides the point). It had look up and down keys, but it could only stretch the view (a common limitation in all raycasting software engines), just like the Build engine did in Duke Nukem 3D and the likes. That looks extremely fake and wrong, because it is, and not adding it to Doom (and designing the game around it) was the right choice. In any case, the biggest issue should be very evident from your own footage: the Marathon engine was extremely limited regarding room complexity and visible sector count. The problem was that it relies on strictly convex sectors with connections, and lacks something like Doom's BSP system, which allowed extremely complex maps in comparison.
Good video even if mostly normie takes, but is weird how you are obsessed with Marathon vs Doom while stripping context from everything. Is pretty obvious why Doom 2 was not as a big leap in technology, Carmack was not interesting in the Doom engine, he was mostly focusing on creating what would become eventually the Quake engine, you know, that game that is so revolutionary that even as far as 2015 games still had some residual code from it. Also if you are a fan of Marathon you know that Marathon 2 and Infinity are on the same level of Doom 2 lack of innovation, it was a common practice at the time, if you made a solid game, just build over it for a sequel.
Doom itself is the product of that same iterative process (which is actually the natural process for software development) - Doom is a direct evolution of Wolfenstein, and Wolfenstein is actually a direct (and I mean very direct) evolution of Commander Keen. The jump between Keen and Doom is nowhere near as big as people seem to think.
"pseudo 3d" ? no! Doom is truly 3d. look if live in a one level flat, you can draw it on a top down 2d map right ? but your flat is not pseudo 3d, right ? that is doom.
@@allyoucangamebuffet do your research doom is 3d, with some aspects being 2d. but the 3d aspects are NOT "pseudo" its full blown x,y,z calculations whenever you see 3d. Just because you cant make a bunk bed that you can go under and over, the bed is still 3 dimensional, it has height, width, length. and there is nothing pseudo about it, those are truly existing 3dimensional space coordinates in the game engine.
Yeah Doom is 3D, just a very primitive form of it, how it achieves it doesn't really matter, what it matters is the result and the result is one the first full 3D worlds in gaming. Also many of the limitations people tend to lump as "non 3D" are not limitations because Carmack was dumb, more like he preferred a more limited game that could run at outstanding performance than something like Marathon that is more technically impressive but basically run like shit.
@@CoracaoAcidental98 IMHO there is no primitive form of 3d, either you have 3 space dimensions or not. ppl have just weird ideas that it can be only 3d if you freely rotate camere in a game world etc. even the earliest home computers had 3d it's just a bunch of calculations, not black magic.
"do your research doom is 3d" Not sure what you're huffing. It's not 3D at all. You can't traverse a third spatial dimension in Doom. You can't go above/under anything, ever, anywhere. Not even enemies or props. Sectors cannot exist above or below other sectors. The entire game is two axis, with a third faux-axis that simply determines the visual sector height of a thing - that third axis does not exist as an axis in its own right... it is simply a variable attached to sectors and entities. "its full blown x,y,z calculations" No, it's not. "those are truly existing 3dimensional space coordinates in the game engine" No, they're not. "even the earliest home computers had 3d it's just a bunch of calculations" Not even this is entirely true. The 90s in particular saw huge technological progress... just in terms of performing those "bunch of calculations". For example, I had a 486 back in the day. It could run Doom. It could not run Quake. Why? Because it lacked hardware support for the floating point calculations Quake needed. Quake wasn't just a fancier version of Doom - Quake was actually 3D, while Doom was not. I don't mean to be rude... but do you have any game development experience? Because your casual hand-waving of the kind of coding that frankly makes peoples brains hurt is... suggesting otherwise. I mean, if you've ever written a game engine that uses two-dimensional arrays to create a tile-based map, then you should understand that there is a huuuuge difference between that tame little 2D array that contains an extra pseudo "height" variable for simply displaying tile contents in a different way, and an actual three dimensional array.
@@allyoucangamebuffet it felt like a lot of pointless commentary, maybe too drawn out with the personal explanation of how you couldnt get into the game
I disagree, I think your perspective as a Mac user was one of the more interesting elements of a topic that has otherwise kind of been covered to death. If I were to offer any critique, it would be to say that you’re missing the historical context that games like “Marathon” only existed because of “Doom”, and the fact that other games had more advanced engines within a year was because: 1. They were directly competing with “Doom” 2. “Doom” wasn’t originally sold on commercial shelves, you had to mail order the rest of the game if you liked the shareware episode. Therefore, the whole point of “Doom II” was to turn around as quickly as possible a sequel that would be sold on store shelves, and somewhat take advantage of the better hardware that was coming out. 3. Id Software recognized that the future of gaming would be fully 3D games, and abandoned the “Doom” IP after “Doom II” to take the time to develop “Quake”, another hugely influential FPS, rather than take the intermediate step of releasing another _mostly_ 3D shooter to compete with the likes of “Marathon”, “Blood”, “Duke Nukem 3D”, “Star Wars: Dark Forces”, and others
The pixelation really wasn't a issue in 1993, when everyone had CRT monitors.
Playing the 320x240 mode on a LCD screen doesn't come close to making justice to what it actually looked like.
@@anterob.1091 640 x 480 felt like a DREAM when it became available. My frame rate suffered on a 486DX33, but with 8MB of RAM, I was actually doing pretty good if I kept my HDD defragmented, lol! 😂 Those were the days.
To this day, people STILL download my "Darkhell" and "Blakhell" episodes (18 maps total) which I made back in 1996. CARMACK JUST KNEW HOW TO DESIGN SOMETHING ENGAGING. You can immediately play and have fun. The ambient sounds instantly clue you in. No tutorials are required. No insane skill trees with 16,384 options, no complicated "combos" to learn, and no ridiculously tough situations where you cannot progress unless you're some uber-elitist gaming zoidaloid. Just pure epic awesomeness. The music was perfect, too.
Not just carmack, everyone at ID
MarsWar is my go-to.
Doom 1 or Doom 2 Wads?
I'm always up for new stuff to try.
@@nineonine9082 I made them before Doom2 was even a thing. 🙂
Carmack knew how to CODE something with endless potential for designers
I mean not being able to look up and down was really a hardware limitation at the time. Doom ran at 35fps on a 486DX2 66MHz which felt unbelievably smooth on a 70Hz CRT. Marathon on the other hand played in a tiny window, had a very narrow field of view and ran at around 5-12fps on period correct hardware (like the Macintosh Performa 600, Or Quadra 700). Ultimately it felt more like a "strategy shooter" in comparison to a fast paced "action shooter" like Doom. It wasn't like Carmack couldn't make Doom with "free look" and a z-axis, but the locked camera angle and column based rendering was an area where he could speed up the game immensely. And it was WELL WORTH IT! Heck! back then you were lucky if you had a 486 at home, a lot of players played the game on a 386 with half horizontal resolution and a window of a postage stamp. It's easy to look back at Marathon with rose tinted eyes. But that's not really how it played back then. Doom actually played about the same that it does now.
I liked the video, but the creator clearly sees Marathon with that "kid's magical eyes", remembering of his good ole days... This effect is often more about feelings and longing about the past than reality.
Dude I was born in 1981, and seeing doom when I was 12 years old in 1993, the graphics and music and atmosphere was unlike anything ever seen!
There is something so good about it's player move mechanics and the way the enemies respond to your shoots and a lot of other tiny things, that even when I go back from a modern port and play it on retro PC or even one of the junky console ports, it still feels good. Like I was testing games in sega 32x and I would load a game just to to see how it looks, I would play it for 2 minutes and then switched to another one. When I switched to Doom, despite the small screen and bad music and weird controls, I wanted to sit there and play some more. They've done something so good with the original mechanics that at least to me even playing the old janky versions still keep me playing.
@@bugothecatplays7864 right?! It pains me that it didn’t pull me in sooner. I’m having a blast going through the extra content in the collection!
I haven't thought about Marathon for quite awhile. A big reason why it wasn't more popular was because I believe it was an Apple exclusive. A lot of people didn't own a Mac for various reasons.
you can download all those games for free to play on Windows. i have played them not finished them for some reason i cant get in to it
The thing about the arsenal is also that choosing to pistol start or not can be s vastly different experience for a given level.
The new legacy of trust map pack has an excellent example of this with its coiled city level.
If you pistol start, the only weapons you will find in the level are the incinerator, the rocket launcher and the calamity blade. And you will be pressed for ammo the whole time.
But if you bring the wealons from the previous level you can being a fully loaded super shot gun which can be a massive help in the tighter sections of the level
Best game ever made, for me.
Co op on consoles with this new release is incredible
Also, there's much more strategy to Doom than you're implying! Especially if we're talking modern day megawads but even the originals on harder difficulty levels. Map navigation can go so many different ways if you don't tackle it right, and every weapon has it's rightful utility, choose wisely!
"very pixelated" yeah, all games were like that back then, even more pixelated, c64 only had 160x200 resolution. we didnt complain that was normal back then. there wasnt anything better. my fathers 386 could only play doom at 15-25 fps at 160x200 , I was happy I could play doom, instead of rolling my eyes and shouting oh my god how pixelated it is. btw there is something with todays displays that make old games look more pixelated than how they really looked.
Its the resolution of most moniters now. Back then the resolution wasnt hi def, so the pixels were sort of blended to make a form we know and love. Now the screens are extra sharp, the pixels are more noticable. But somehow the game still holds artistically.
@@frankunbaphomet3206 yeah something like that I know that crt TVs smeared the pixels, I watched that shit for 2 decades before lcd pixels, but somehow CRT monitor pixels were already very well defined, maybe lcd pixels are even more crisper than CRT monitor pixels.
Who is playing Marathon today?
It may be more technically advanced. But in no way is it even close to Dooms brilliance!
*raises hand… I am
me, here also
I would play some of it's mods.
Especially marathon:isoteria with it's interesting complexity and RPG mechanics weirdly working to enhance the gameplay... Which is absurd considering how often RPG mechanics usually poison the whole FPS experience.
LOL. Mac users. They were so excited about the first real video game for their platform. They would go on and on about how superior it was. Even though the color and graphics design etc... was complete garbage.
@@Ahamshep yes, thats called nostalgia, and its absolutly cool. And dont try to Tell me the gameplay or colors where better in Wolf 3d, doom or whatever Windows opponent
Not being able to look up/down is better imo than the warped effect that would have happened if Carmack had allowed it (like in Build engine).
Also Carmack was working on the Quake engine during Doom 2's development, that's why it fell behind Bungie, technology-wise. Didn't know that they'd built room-over-room though, very impressive
Yeah looking up in Duke 3D (and I assume Marathon as well) makes me feel sick lol. It's as if you drew the screen with very high vertical FOV and then cropped the entire bottom of the image off rather than actually tilting the camera up.
You can look up and down in the DOOM engine, this wasn't a feature for DOOM 1-2 but other games that used the DOOM engine like Heretic and Hexen had this feature also if it's that big of a deal just use the GZDOOM sourceport
To the crowd talking about how looking up and down was a limitation of the time; Ultima Underworld from 1992, over a year before Doom, was fully 3d and had the ability to look up and down. The problem was is wasn't made with a fast engine.
First of all, Doom 2 has bigger levels, new enemies, and the legendary Double Barrel Shotgun. It might not have been graphically better, but it improved in other areas. The new enemies were the icing on the cake for me-they made the game so much better than the first one. Doom 2 for life!
Classic Doom is technical, artistical and design marvel.
And the gameplay was an upped version of the adrenaline fueled shooting they nailed with Wolfenstein 3D. I would say that ability to look up and down could have detracted from the action, without adding much, besides in 2.5D games looking up and down doesn't look good.
You should check out Heretic and Hexen. They both run on an enhanced version of the Doom engine with vertical aim.
You know what has aged really well for me? The enemy design. All the demons are so iconic and good-looking to me. And Doom Eternal really proves this by making all designs as close the originals as possible.
Absolutely. I wish they had kept the Baron design from 2016 though. But the original doom character design is impeccable
Adrian Carmack really was the best in the industry at his time, incredibly skilled artist.
The idea behind this is that each monster should be identifiable at a distance when it's just a tiny jumble of pixels.
And it does it perfectly
@@eggwhitepopcorn2918 I agree. That is the one design I thought was better in 2016. Should have had that, with green fire blades and the hairy legs the classic had.
@@erikpng 2016s Baron filled the quota of "basic red cartoon demon" and eternal didn't really have that. Classic doom had both the pinkies and the Baron. I started replaying 2016 today and the barons of that game (as well as the rest of the demons lol) are way more menacing than the ones we got in eternal. I do like the Eternal barons, but I think they should've been their own thing.
OG doom soundtrack is awesome dude! 100% iconic.
Change the size and color of your targeted reticle (300%ish) to help with vertical targeting. Mine switches to big and magenta when I’m targeting them even when I can’t see well.
That also helps for hitting shots while strafing quickly on controller.
This is a great idea. Never even occurred to me.
@@allyoucangamebuffet I still come back to Doom/Doom II almost as a palette cleanser between sweaty-ass modern games. The simplicity of it never gets old.
The first time I played Doom was at a RadioShack and they had the shareware on one of the computers.
The midi music is great. It's a shame you have no idea because wavetable audio made this so damn good. Check out roland sound canvas doom as an example! This was incredible for the time. Also Doom 2 was a full retail release rather than a sequel. The original shareware model meant it wasn't really in shops.
The first time I played doom after installing an awe32 it blew me away.
@@mowogfpv7582 only had SB clone in the 90s but I just got myself a mccake for my 98 se machine. Similar feels.
Great vid man, keep it up, I like your commentary. About Doom, not much to say, simply one of the best games of all time, having eternal or 2016 with whatever mods you want is heavenly!
6:29 not too many “;dark rooms” when you have the brightness turned up like this! Turn it off man you’re spoiling the levels, playing it like this.
Let ppl play how they want maybe
"marathon" you probably needed the highest end PCs of the time to run it the quality you show to us, but I doubt even that was possible what is that resolution ? PCs costed much more compared to today, such a pc that could run marathon in the resolution you like must have costed as much as a new car.
2:00 I feel that so hard 😂😂😂 we also had an apple PC, and i wasnt able to play all that Windows Games. So I played Marathon for years so hard, that i thought im living on Lohown. Hint to everyone who dont know: Marathon Classic is now aviable on Steam for Free
Because it's *DOOM*
need i say more?
About the sound, try the PlayStation version. Sounds and music is waayyyyyyy more superior than event Hulshut’s one from my pov.
There's always a source port that will let you look up and down (and jump, if you want).
These games seem solid, I think they could get really popular.
Could use some community mods or something…. I’m thinking a Bible themed version with…. Noah’s Ark…
@@Mush-from-Bethlehem-ECD-BMXer wooooosh
Doom gives me motion sickness. I can barely play 1 level, then I have to stop before I throw up
MIDI music weirdly gets a bad rap. We don't look down on Megaman or SMB music on NES for essentially being the same thing, we rightly see it as iconic and a smart solution to creating music when it was completely implausible to ship something like a large sound file. There's a whole subculture around FM synthesis chips and retro sound cards. It can give you an appreciation for how iconic and cool the Doom soundtrack is, and how cool the technology actually is (was). Still, it's cromulent to prefer the remix that comes with the Kex engine release.
@@ezgoodnight a perfectly cromulent set of points here.
@@allyoucangamebuffet a noble spirit embiggens all MIDI enjoyers
Because it's goated
Saying that Marathon is more technically advanced than Doom is a mistake. Blame it on Apple.
Marathon came a year after Doom, a year after Ultima Underworld 2(the first-person RPG with actual 3D environments), and two years after Virtua Fighter (the first actual 3D fighting game). Oh, and Magic Carpet from 1994.
Doom defined the "3D open-world gameplay experience" as we know it today without using any actual 3D because it would be unfeasible with the era's technology. It used Wolfenstein3D as a base engine and some clever applied math from Space Oracle Wizard John Carmack. And PC, of course.
The real root of Doom's success is something that nobody ever seems to talk about - the entire FPS genre was effectively a minor, largely superficial evolution... of 2D sidescrollers.
Not even an exaggeration. Look at Id's own heritage - look at the transition from Keen to Wolfenstein, and you can see it more clearly. Wolfenstein (and Doom) are 2D games. There is no traversable third dimension (Doom only has the visual illusion of it - you can't actually traverse a third dimension). Wolfenstein and Doom are basically 2D sidescrollers... laid flat on the ground.
This is why the levels work so well - the finite ammo, the hand-placed enemies, the simple AI that is transformed into complex, unique gameplay by the level geometry itself... it's a finely-tuned 2D sidescroller/simplified dungeon crawler, with a first person camera.
A lot of people think that Doom was some revolutionary "new" thing - it's the opposite. It was the refined and polished end result of Id iterating what they knew about game design across multiple titles - Doom was the culmination of their work.
Sadly, the fact that nobody bothers to actually study these games and really understand what they are and why they work... has resulted in modern game development suffering heavily, and losing some important lessons.
I could write an entire essay about everything that Doom 2016 did wrong, objectively and from the perspective of basic level design principles, but I'll sum it up by saying - original Doom games? A door was a door. Doom 2016? A door was often not a door at all. This might seem like a minor point, but level design is all about creating a visual language... the original Doom games spoke an elegant, pristine and universal language. Modern Doom doesn't know what language it's speaking.
You know you can mod Doom to add look up/down, right? I'm actually surprised it's not a standard option in this modern re-release. But, honestly, when playing with a controller at least, it's actually less hassle not having to mess around with looking up and down imo, and the vertical auto aiming is implemented so well that I very rarely even notice looking up/down isn't even there. With a mouse and keyboard though, having the look up/down is my preferred way of playing.
Does this Doom 1+2 remaster have the Aubrey Hodges soundtrack from PlayStation Doom (my favourite of any Doom game ever)? If not, that's a huge miss imo, as it really makes Doom something special that just isn't the same with the more heavy metal music for me.
In my opinion PlayStation Doom is still the single best version of Doom out there. And it's because of that soundtrack combined with the PlayStation controller plus everything that makes classic Doom so good. It's about as "Doom" as it gets imo. I'd recommend you give that version a proper go if you can. It feels like Doom 3's atmosphere had a baby with Doom, and is the best of all worlds as far as I'm concerned.
PS. I can tell you have a preference for Marathon and would probably like to convince people it's ultimately a better game, but it's just not to actually play imo. Yes, it's technically more advanced in many ways, but it's simply far more clunky and unsatisfying moving around and shooting and so on, and that's almost certainly why it hasn't endured like Doom has. Also, I just downloaded and tried it, and that tiny window it's in with all the HUD crap taking up much of the screen really ruins things imo. Marathon 2 is better in that regard, but it still just feels meh to actually control/play compared to Doom. And being able to look up/down doesn't change my opinion on that. I'm sure it was all extremely impressive and cutting edge for it's time, but it holds up nowhere near as well as Doom in the areas that actually matter imo. Again, which is why I think the original Doom persists and Marathon is just a footnote in the history of the fps genre.
He said "Wolfensteeen". 😞
I was 12 in 93.
I was waiting for you to mention playing Doom with one of its source ports, specifically GZDoom, but it wasn't there.
Yes, the original Doom engine technically doesn't allow for looking up, but certain source ports (GZDoom) do. In all honesty, I played a bit of Doom with Nightdive's kex engine wrapper, and it's actually a subpar experience. GZDoom not only lets you look vertically, but also adds other features found in modern games (slopes, rooms above rooms, transparency, water areas). There are a lot of Doom mods that take these features in mind; Mega Man 8 Bit Death Match is one of my favorites.
You should really give the PC version another try. I'm also certain that there is controller support.
I have seen Brutal Doom but never tried it. I feel like Brutal Doom is Doom’s ultimate form.
@@Leviverzyden I played some of that mod, but it's not my favorite. You can also check out Quake Champions: Doom Edition; it's a demake of the Quake Champions game, with excellent multiplayer.
Wait, what? Rooms above rooms?
Sorry but I thought that was just mapping trickery?
I've heard that it was as per fan request and the *old, old* source ports (a la Boom,) there was a new function added (LineDef Portal from what I've heard) that allowed you to create the illusion of stacked rooms when you were really just being teleported to another point in the map. A.k.a "silent teleportation."
@@pseudonym6895 modern source ports, specifically GZDoom, allow for fully 3D environments. They built games like Selaco that have multiple heights and slopes and such.
@@FuzzyGhost Ah right, ta'! I was just looking at that like "tha feck yer un abuu'?" given we all know Doom natively cun't stack rooms.
Nice man 👏
nice video, but you lost me when you said DOOM's music wasn't very good or iconic? Literally some of gamings most well known and loved music, very few aren't aware or like E1M1 for example.
Marathon sucked!!!
3:55 Very few games use guns that reload via clip. Almost all modern guns and guns represented in games use magazines.
Marathon fan boy, look up and down blah blah. Next video
11:13
The Marathon engine was wildly inferior to Doom. No, it couldn't look up and down (the remake you're using in your footage can, but that's besides the point). It had look up and down keys, but it could only stretch the view (a common limitation in all raycasting software engines), just like the Build engine did in Duke Nukem 3D and the likes. That looks extremely fake and wrong, because it is, and not adding it to Doom (and designing the game around it) was the right choice. In any case, the biggest issue should be very evident from your own footage: the Marathon engine was extremely limited regarding room complexity and visible sector count. The problem was that it relies on strictly convex sectors with connections, and lacks something like Doom's BSP system, which allowed extremely complex maps in comparison.
Good video even if mostly normie takes, but is weird how you are obsessed with Marathon vs Doom while stripping context from everything.
Is pretty obvious why Doom 2 was not as a big leap in technology, Carmack was not interesting in the Doom engine, he was mostly focusing on creating what would become eventually the Quake engine, you know, that game that is so revolutionary that even as far as 2015 games still had some residual code from it.
Also if you are a fan of Marathon you know that Marathon 2 and Infinity are on the same level of Doom 2 lack of innovation, it was a common practice at the time, if you made a solid game, just build over it for a sequel.
Doom itself is the product of that same iterative process (which is actually the natural process for software development) - Doom is a direct evolution of Wolfenstein, and Wolfenstein is actually a direct (and I mean very direct) evolution of Commander Keen. The jump between Keen and Doom is nowhere near as big as people seem to think.
"pseudo 3d" ? no! Doom is truly 3d. look if live in a one level flat, you can draw it on a top down 2d map right ? but your flat is not pseudo 3d, right ? that is doom.
@@kangarht bunk beds. Dooms nemesis.
@@allyoucangamebuffet do your research doom is 3d, with some aspects being 2d. but the 3d aspects are NOT "pseudo" its full blown x,y,z calculations whenever you see 3d. Just because you cant make a bunk bed that you can go under and over, the bed is still 3 dimensional, it has height, width, length. and there is nothing pseudo about it, those are truly existing 3dimensional space coordinates in the game engine.
Yeah Doom is 3D, just a very primitive form of it, how it achieves it doesn't really matter, what it matters is the result and the result is one the first full 3D worlds in gaming.
Also many of the limitations people tend to lump as "non 3D" are not limitations because Carmack was dumb, more like he preferred a more limited game that could run at outstanding performance than something like Marathon that is more technically impressive but basically run like shit.
@@CoracaoAcidental98 IMHO there is no primitive form of 3d, either you have 3 space dimensions or not. ppl have just weird ideas that it can be only 3d if you freely rotate camere in a game world etc. even the earliest home computers had 3d it's just a bunch of calculations, not black magic.
"do your research doom is 3d"
Not sure what you're huffing. It's not 3D at all. You can't traverse a third spatial dimension in Doom. You can't go above/under anything, ever, anywhere. Not even enemies or props. Sectors cannot exist above or below other sectors. The entire game is two axis, with a third faux-axis that simply determines the visual sector height of a thing - that third axis does not exist as an axis in its own right... it is simply a variable attached to sectors and entities.
"its full blown x,y,z calculations"
No, it's not.
"those are truly existing 3dimensional space coordinates in the game engine"
No, they're not.
"even the earliest home computers had 3d it's just a bunch of calculations"
Not even this is entirely true. The 90s in particular saw huge technological progress... just in terms of performing those "bunch of calculations". For example, I had a 486 back in the day. It could run Doom. It could not run Quake. Why? Because it lacked hardware support for the floating point calculations Quake needed. Quake wasn't just a fancier version of Doom - Quake was actually 3D, while Doom was not.
I don't mean to be rude... but do you have any game development experience? Because your casual hand-waving of the kind of coding that frankly makes peoples brains hurt is... suggesting otherwise. I mean, if you've ever written a game engine that uses two-dimensional arrays to create a tile-based map, then you should understand that there is a huuuuge difference between that tame little 2D array that contains an extra pseudo "height" variable for simply displaying tile contents in a different way, and an actual three dimensional array.
Its fine. The Classic Doom games were acquired taste.
Albeit a taste that the majority of gamers acquired pretty rapidly, usually within the first thirty seconds.
this video is not that great
Let us know how we can improve!
@@allyoucangamebuffet it felt like a lot of pointless commentary, maybe too drawn out with the personal explanation of how you couldnt get into the game
I disagree, I think your perspective as a Mac user was one of the more interesting elements of a topic that has otherwise kind of been covered to death. If I were to offer any critique, it would be to say that you’re missing the historical context that games like “Marathon” only existed because of “Doom”, and the fact that other games had more advanced engines within a year was because:
1. They were directly competing with “Doom”
2. “Doom” wasn’t originally sold on commercial shelves, you had to mail order the rest of the game if you liked the shareware episode. Therefore, the whole point of “Doom II” was to turn around as quickly as possible a sequel that would be sold on store shelves, and somewhat take advantage of the better hardware that was coming out.
3. Id Software recognized that the future of gaming would be fully 3D games, and abandoned the “Doom” IP after “Doom II” to take the time to develop “Quake”, another hugely influential FPS, rather than take the intermediate step of releasing another _mostly_ 3D shooter to compete with the likes of “Marathon”, “Blood”, “Duke Nukem 3D”, “Star Wars: Dark Forces”, and others
Hot take but I'm going to posit that playing Doom on a Switch controller with gyro controls is almost a superior experience ot mouse and keyboard.