Aluminum 3D Printed Intake Manifold - Building a 13B BMW i8 : EP4
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- In this episode we take a look at the intake side of the 13B REW that Im swapping into a BMW i8. The aluminum intake parts are in 3D printed SLS aluminum and sourced through Craft Cloud. I go over the general process of turning your raw components into a finished intake.
I forgot to mention, the intake is designed with a 5mm wall thickness throughout.
Craft Cloud
craftcloud3d.com/
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Seriously Impressive. I've spent 20 years building out a full CNC machine shop business. With the end goal of building a car from scratch. It's looking like I could have just waited and 3d printed everything thing instead of 5 axis CNC everything. 3D print with some light finish machining is the future it seems.
hey man, I've had that thought too, id love to do that one day. the guy that started renishaw done that, I visited to train on a machine they bought, they built an awesome car (McMurtry automotive) also have you seen the zinger c1? the main body is a carbon monocoque with the front and rear subframes being 3d printed titanium, I believe it is also machined to get it to bolt together correctly but it would save a lot of machining time. I posted a quick video of it on my channel. 🙂
The rotary community needs you this is amazing. With love from Mass, CT neighbor.
Hopefully I’ll have the car out at Grid Life Lime Rock next year. Definitely won’t be finished by August.
Finally someone that really makes everything on it's own, really cool to see what it's possible to do when n you wan't to use simple tools
Well he did get someone else to print the manifold.
@@tomjones5974 no shit
@@VIPK9 context bro. Learn it.
This is incredible. Many rotary people suggest to add a heat shield between the intake manifold and the exhaust/turbocharger, it might have been nice to add a provision for that onto the intake manifold. Thanks for addressing the flange flatness, I wouldn't trust most of the belt sanders that I've used but it's it's hard to argue with a feeler gauge.
On flattening, I've also had luck using a mid-high grit sand paper glued to granite or glass as a flattening surface. Awesome work on this project!
I also really dig how you are 3d printing jigs for machine work. I should have done this when making my fuel rails!
I need to invest in a granite block one day, along with a drop gauge.
@@CouchBuilt check your local auctions. Surface plates from machine shops often sell for incredibly low prices. From what I've noticed, as a machinist and auction junkie, surface plates are one of the last items to have any attention given - often with only a single bid on them for the more visibly used ones. You can expect to get one for less than $50.
@Hugh_Jassle thanks for the tip, I’ll keep an eye out.
The black wrinkle finish is exactly what I was thinking.
Exactly, I was looking at the writing and thinking that it will look very stock BMW with black wrinkle finish just before you made the comment about the colour.
This opens up whole new ways of passing visual emissions requirements while gaining performance.
That’s an interesting one I didn’t consider. Definitely opens some possibilities.
This is gonna end up 100k+. And I'm here for it! Love the project, man.
Looks good. I think I would add some support between the intercooler and the engine just to take some of the load off the runners
100%. That’s the plan with an adjustable Delrin pad.
I work in the additive industry in SLM technology and it was very refreshing hearing and seeing your knowledge through out the video as you work with the printed parts you received. Metal AM is even more exciting for me when I see it in automotive application. Most definitely subscribing.
Completely awesome! I recently designed a throttle body adapter for a 13B intake manifold, which is a much smaller task. It was still very interesting to get quotes on having it CNC machined or 3D printed. I was surprised how expensive 3D printing metal was, but as the price comes down it will become more and more viable! I think for a seriously complex item like this where the cost of CNC would be so high, it's already reaching that crossover point. Not to mention when the geometry would be literally impossible for CNC as a single part. Really appreciate these videos!
You can make 3D printed aluminium stuff now?! That’s insane! Imagine the possibilities!
First time viewer. RUclips recommended this video to me and I'm glad I clicked. Very neat presentation style, you're straight to the point but also good at showing/explaining everything that's going on and why without making it too drawn out. Will catch up on the rest of the vids and tune in for more 😃
I was wondering about flatness but trusted the process.
I definitely didn't expect the bench to be that curved!
You need a drainhole in that thing :P
Happy to get another good rotary content fix so Rob can focus on pikes peak prep!
Ey, Rob just released another video!
Quite annoying. I need to stop progress and watch.
Fabdaddy content
Your channel has given me hope to keep so many older things on the road.
With modern tech, literally anyone can get any part reproduced or even improved as long as they are willing to put some reverse engineering and design work. With some solid effort, you could even recreate a carburetor that hasn't been manufactured in over a century. It's super awesome! You can even make the prototypes at home with a basic 3D printer, iterate to your heart's content, and then have it made out of any material you can think of with a simple online ordering service.
Wow! How does this channel only have 6k subscribers? This is such high quality content. Discovered it by accident but subscribed immediately. Love to see it.
That's way cheaper than I thought it would be. Prices have really come down. Can't wait until I can do it at home.
Damn that twin power turbo on the manifold is a really cool detail, the project is looking great 💪🏼
This build is really turning out super sick. Never realized how accessible 3d printed metal parts were, definitely want to find a way to implement that in a future project myself. Thanks for posting and showing the process!
This is absolutely amazing work. Loving this series.
That's not bad for a one off completely custom unit. Sheet metal custom IM are similarly priced and you don't have nearly as many weld points. Thank you for sharing your journey with us.
i subscribed just to hear this motor run
What an OEM will probably take years to achieve and build. Awesome stuff!
one of the COOLEST segments ive seen in a while! holy moly you are a talented fabricator, great engineering and you truly seem to have some intelligence. PLEASE MAKE MORE CONTENT! FULL SUPPORT
Nice videos man. But you should have also welded the middle bar of the coolant intake on your intercooler. Wouldve been quite easy, just cut the intake cap on one side of the middle bar in half. Wasted performance, and, water could get pressed through the gap between the core and the middle bar and create cavitating. I know, highly unlikely at such low flow rates, but just a tip.
Would be be better welded? Maybe. One nuance you don't see is that the cap rocks on the center divider slightly, so that point has the greatest contact with the core. When its welded, the joint shrinks and pulls, drawing it in even more against the mating surface. With such low flow and having equal core on both sides, it really wasn't worth splitting the part for this use case.
@@CouchBuilt I know. Autism kicked in, and i had to point it out lol.
Another question: do you plan to add any supports to the intake and exhaust manifold to support them? Like one thin walled strut from the underside of the intake manifold to the engine block.
Seen that on a lot of OEM engines to prevent stress cracks on the flanges.
Yes, there’s going to be an adjustable Delrin pad underneath for support. Even with 5mm wall thickness, I’m going to keep it supported.
This is so cool. Beautiful work!
Great work and explanations
Really nicely done and fascinating. Thanks
Absolutely fantastic start to finish.
That came out really nice. Great job!
The fitment is amazing, subscribed !
this is pretty amazing
Very nice work! I can't wait for the final result.
Great results . Should work a treat.
Your content is so satisfying to watch! Awesome
I used to have a friend who worked in a marine diesel engine shop. They had a massive belt sander (a "belt resurfacer") that they used to surface things, including marine diesel heads (which are usually one cylinder per head). I had them flatten many a header flange for me. That has a machined flat surface that the belt runs on and a high quality belt, but I imagine any decent belt sander is good for an exhaust manifold.
I'm so glad I found your channel!
Pretty sick stuff. Nice one
I am geeking out watching this build. Love all the walkthroughs and explanation.
Wow just wow! What you are doing still amaze me! What great work!
Sweet stuff, glad i found your channel
You’re a legend!
As someone who has been designing and developing his own 13B inlet manifold for the last year or so, this couldn't have come at a better time! While I was alreadly looking into getting some more intricate pieces printed and then weld everything to CNC machined flanges, the idea of printing the entire thing didn't seem in the realm of possibilities until now. Thanks for showing this, and keep up the good work!
Loving your content!
I like the way you follow precision
Love this channel
Quite impressed with the finsh and price for such a large item printed in metal
crazy level ingenuity and detail for "home" builder. subscribed!
You’re the king of cool in my eyes.
This is really cool to see. I love seeing 3d printing used for automotive parts, its rare that i get to do it on my own car since i cant afford metal printing but one of these days i hope to do lost pla casting to make a self made engine.
The fusion export issue has to do with the level of detail settings when you export, fusion is honestly terrible at import and export stuff. Itll add more mesh the more features youve got in the area, so if its just a large tube it ends up low rez unless you turn the resolution up to a frankly ridiculous level.
Until recently i was using fusion, but they booted me from the startup edition i was learning on, so ive switched to seimens solid edge (fully featured and free to makers and hobbyists) and honest to god its night and day better in every single way. One of these days ive gotta write a thank you to autodesk for forcing me to learn something else because noone would use fusion if they knew how much better everything else is. 😂
I KNEW this is coming
This is awesome
First of all mad respect for the time you spend thinking, 3D modeling etc. This is the real shit, this is a real build not bought car when finished. You earned yourself a new subscriber. At the and of the video you let us give you ideas About any Color for the intake manifold. You said powder coating but Maybe cerakoting it would maybe be the beter option. Here me out why, cerakote is excellent in keeping heat in the material itself prevending ir heat for example: turbo manifold, exhaust etc. But cerakote is not only excellent in keeping heat in the material itself but also heat protection, for example the ir heat created by the exhaust manifold, since its good in keeping heat inside the material itself also means it needs a lot of ir heat to pentrate the cerakote layer and start heating up the aluminium itself and thus automatecly heating up the air inside the manifold itself and hotter air means less oxygen less oxygen less fuel less fuel less bang less bang less hp. not saying That powder coating is a bad idea, but cerakote c series is aircuring instead of oven curing like poweder. And c series had the same strength as oven curing cerakote. And since all parts are already sandblasted what cerakote needs to bond maybe a thing to consider. Why you think, because the ir heat protection since the exhaust manifold and intake manifold are close to each other. Maybe considering cerakoting the exhaust manifold as of the part about keeping the heat inside the material,
Sorry for my maybe sometimes wrong writen words
Greetings from the Netherlands🚗💨
Super impressive stuff, irony is I took the 13b out lol
Really interested to see the final i8, such a great looking car.
Another great video. Keep them comi g
Subbed. Wish you all the best with your project(-s)!
Cool build. New sub. Key word is "reasonable". If your method achieves satisfactory outcomes, then send it!
Love the content. Love how you show your basic fusion360 info, and then the final part... not hiding issues or gotchas either.
I do wonder why the velocity stacks have a gap under them? if they were flush with that plenum "floor" there would be nowhere to trap debris and be just as smooth. Is there a function for that gap that I am unaware of?
They are projected off the floor for better flow. I’d suggest googling velocity stacks and laminar flow if you want to dive for more details.
Очень интересный опыт!
Wrinkle black might be too much, just satin black with polished lettering and ribs would be amazing
Just found this series and I am all about it!!!! Been thinking about engine swapping an I8 and knew about the engine constraints. Just binged all your videos then also Robs 13b 700hp video. Any reason why your not going Nexus? I assume its the BMW support for the CanBus on Max. What are your HP goals, why EFR? Not that smallest turbo to put within a restricted space. Awesome to see another New Englander jumping into a project like this.
Maxxecu was primarily chosen because it has native control of the DQ500 trans over CAN, as well as a super flexible CAN and custom tables/maps. I like the EFR because its all self contained. My original plan was for an EFR9180, but it was on backorder at the time and this 8374 has an upgraded Bullseye Power batmowheel compressor. Looking to get around 500whp to start, then lean on it a bit harder and see where I reach the point of diminishing returns. Thatll be a good step up from the 220 or 230 the factory ICE makes, and the additional power from the hybrid components will be there as well.
I’ve found that when exporting meshes from some cad software; the angle from which you’re viewing the part at the time you export it can effect the resulting mesh
That’s interesting. I’ll have to explore that further.
👏👏👏
👍👍👍👍👍
Great work. Thanks for sharing. Did you think about dimple dies on intake runners? (Golf ball sufrace)
Is part shrinkage ever a problem or is it not a concern?
Your channel has inspired me to try making more of my own parts this way. Thanks
I am very much interested in the thermal pressure and abuse this is going to see. Starting and ending measurments for the race season, i want to know how much it tweaks under abuse. Those welds on the heat exchanger have a tough job ahead of them. I would keep it at 18 lbs of boost briefly. 24 lbs put on your balistic saftey glasses, P= (2*T*S/D) for your weld should help. Ironically you have a license plate behind you that says bad idea.
Barlows equation is irrelevant for the plenum, but at least the runners will take 9,760psi
@@CouchBuilt was looking for the weld strength, not the base metal strength. I'm digging through my college notes their is a different equation for weld strength under bost/heat.
@@invasivecoyote1361 Absolute weld strength isn't even worth consideration here. Most motorsports component weld failures under pressure are due to flex of the joined material over the weld joint itself. There's a reason you don't see any large flat surfaces, and the closest thing to a flat surface has convenient stiffening ribs as part of the logo. If temperatures in the intake are enough to alter the strength properties, the car is on fire.
@CouchBuilt I'm not banging on your door. Sorry if I came off that way. I very much appreciate your artwork. I'm just a fellow car hobbist such as yourself, and I have dabbled in making mainfolds, both intake and exhaust. Simply pointing out my past failures and experiences. I built an intake similar to yours except a BBC 454, and it blew a nice chunk out at the lake doing more than I should have asked of it.
@invasivecoyote1361 nothing taken offensively, just pointing out some details that others might be interested in response to your comments. Using sheetmetal for intakes puts significantly more stresses on welds. This is why you’ll often find vertical supports welded in large inline layout motor plenums to prevent flex, which would manifest as a blown weld.
Blue and White to keep the i8 scheme?
Also, you may want to do full FDM 3D prints before you send out final files
Shrink them to make it so it doesn't take 3 weeks to print :P
But when I do 3D prints, I ALWAYS miss stuff, and printing test copies helps me catch things
Everything was printed at full scale on cheap PLA first
@@CouchBuilt did it have the same "creasing" in the PLA models?
@Rantandreason not on that version. I made small tolerance changes, not involving the runners, before the metal printing. Something went pear shaped between the two
@@CouchBuilt yeah, we find that happens a bunch between me and a friend of mine. Sometimes he will come up with designs using CAD programs, and they look fantastic on the screen, but some weird ass results
Hi, great series you have here. Just wondering where you purchased the intercooler core?
It’s a Bell Intercoolers Core. Verocious Motorsports is the dealer I usually buy them from.
Wow it's beautiful, you modeled all of that in fusion 360?!
Yup, through a lot of pain and suffering I arrived at a good method for modeling stuff like this.
The belt sander needs to be flat to ensure an accurate result. The straight edge needs to go on the sander first.
The amazing part is my belt sander is a 20 year old harbor freight unit.
@@CouchBuilt Lucky or end user corrected.
Very cool technology! Question: Why are the inside runners smaller diameter than the outside two?
A 13B has different sized primary and secondary ports. If you make the runner too large, you will lose intake velocity and negatively impact low engine speed performance.
Given that flatness and smoothness are not at all the same thing, are you pretty confident that the belt sander did a decent enough job creating a smooth surface on your mating surfaces that you wont have problems getting it to seal?
I’ve built more than a few manifolds. All have been sanded, none have ever had sealing issues.
Is the printed aluminum dense enough to polish or would it be too porous to achieve a nice finish.
Interesting question! I also wonder how it compares in strength to cast and billet parts.
Interested in doing this same type of manifold for my twin charged hybrid crz….. anyone you would recommend to sub the design out to?
How is the strength of printed aluminium compared to cast or machined billet? In other words, how much do you compensate for what I presume is a lower strength part?
Strength is comparable to a cast part, possibly a bit stronger as there tends to be less porosity.
I notice no support bracket in your design, are the 3D printed SLS runners strong enough to support the entire assembly?
It’ll have an adjustable support pad bolted to the motor. It would probably be OK with the 5mm thick walls, but not worth the risk.
Wouldn't equal length runners be better?
They are equal length to
Have you tried vapor honing one of those aluminum 3D parts?
I had my motor housings vapor honed. They came out nice .
@@CouchBuilt if you get a chance, and you have some spare 3D printed aluminum, you should give a piece to the guy that did it and see what results you'll get
The reason I'm suggesting it is because you mentioned that oil and dirt sticks to the finish of the parts you got printed
With Vapor Honing, if you use very fine glass bead, it gives it a super nice shine and you don't get the oil and grease prints anymore
@@CouchBuilt I was trying to find the video but I saw it years ago.
It was a motorcycle shop that did VH as part of it's repairs, and this guy had a part he had done and left it on the front counter. He said it had been there for like 5 years, and it looked like he just took it out of the tank, even thought customers came in and played around with it every day
May be something to consider
Subscribed and thank you this is some great content, just curious why the rotary?
Biggest punch in the smallest package. That and I’ve never messed with one before. Should be a fun mixture of EV efficiency with high fuel consumption rotary.
I agree but how big of a punch are we talking about. It hard to know who knows what from comments on u-tube so I’ve always been reluctant to comment but I’ve done quite a bit of tuning on the rew’s, imo your lucky that it’s not bridge ported and it only has a small street port and that everything looks good inside. What do you expect idle quality to be? What rpm? I believe your intake design is going to affect it.
@georgeplevritis5190 the dyno will tell in time, but Turbo Source has been reliably, in rotary terms, easily clearing 500whp on many similar EFR turbo setups on good fuel. The factory ICE motor only made like 220hp, and the EV stuff will still be there to contribute.
Sorry maybe I’m coming off wrong, I know the capability of the 13b, whenever we did one obviously to make more power you have to port it, street, bridge, semi periph, full periph, the thing I hated about that is you end up losing low rpm port velocity so you have to bringing up the idle, not to mention that most also add much larger injectors so pulse widths add to the problem, I always go back to Mazda and think they obviously knew this thats why they block off the secondary ports @ low rpm. If the prices weren’t as crazy as they’ve gotten I would totally do 13B rew again but I would change my strategy.
Got where you’re going. This is a pretty decent street port. That’s why I went with dual secondary injectors over single massive units as well.
you think that TB is gonna be big enough?
Plenty big enough with fantastic driveability.
Nice job. Adding filler with bare hands is not good way. You are also adding your sweat to your welds.
I never saw anyone addressing 45 degree seal for the Bosch pressure+temp sensor, I have couple of those installed with copper washer under the sensor and it seals this way. Can you share any sources that describe correct installation procedure?
Check out the technical drawing. I’m sure a copper crush washer works fine as well. www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/downloads/Raceparts/Resources/pdf/Offer%20Drawing_261221899_Pressure_Sensor_Combined_PST-F_2_350_bar.pdf
@@CouchBuilt thank you! Found this one as well, but it's for different one, 350 bar version. It has slightly different shape...
The smooth tip and the one with the groove both use the same seat machining from any of the drawings I’ve seen. There are hundreds of Bosch sensors so I try to limit my use to the ones that have documentation available.
I didn’t catch how you finished the 3D printer injector inlets/ports. Do you mind sharing?
I’m not quite following what you’re asking?
Did you have to clean up or do any post processing where the injectors sit into the manifold?
That’s covered in the video.
What tap handle is that?
a.co/d/2lMvRLr
I'm not sure about metal 3D printing but I do all the FDM printing at my work and you get a much more accurate finished product when you export and slice the model as a .st(e)p vs a .stl. I'm using Inventor and Prusaslicer. The end of this is what I'm talking about. ruclips.net/video/R0NSlRWHLHQ/видео.html
the belt sander will get it flat like the earth. its good enough
lol 🤪
for reference, in case you're not sure what it is
ruclips.net/video/6FROWebVKjE/видео.htmlsi=EHWBTGDbHKjlv6Fw&t=148
E32 @ 4:52 ?
Yea, friend/customer car for some minor exhaust stuff.
Couldve sent the manifold to a machine shop and ask them to deck it
I dont get why people do the water entry and exit on the same side, just let it cross flow you want to take heat out. When you reverse the flow you just tranferring heat into metal
Front motor mount doesn’t allow a cross flow layout.
@@CouchBuilt understood.
I need your contact details to finish my V12 engine design
Please consider doing a thermal dispersant on the intake plenum with a ceramic barrier on the exhaust and hot side of turbo..The company we used for the racing industry is techline coatings. You can even coat the hot side of the turbo...
Turbine housing is already ceramic coated and the manifold and turbine will get inconel heat shielding.
That throttle body looks like it belongs on a 1.8 four-cylinder engine… or is it just the camera making it look small? 🤔
Hhhmmm you did say 68mm. Why so small?
68mm isn’t small. This isn’t a 6L V8 and I’ll always choose the smallest throttle body that won’t be a restriction as it has much better drivability.
sketch 343.
Mistakes were made.
In some sense this is flat out laughable. Free software, a home workshop and a bloke with more than half a clue is producing OE levels of engineering.