Mother Teaches Daughter How to Manipulate? | Joyce and Karin Aparo Case Analysis
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 май 2022
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Joyce and Karin Aparo?
Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
Subscribe to the Bella Grande Media Podcast: / @bellagrandemedia
Dr. Grande’s book Harm Reduction:
www.amazon.com/Harm-Reduction...
Dr. Grande's book Psychology of Notorious Serial Killers: www.amazon.com/Psychology-Not...
Check out Dr. Grande’s merchandise at: teespring.com/stores/dr-grand...
References:
www.scribd.com/read/318784339...
law.justia.com/cases/federal/...
texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/675...
www.tampabay.com/archive/1990...
www.nytimes.com/1990/06/07/ny...
When I think of people being great at manipulating I am reminded of a man I hired long ago to do minor work on a gutter. I paid him $200 and he took off on me and I never saw him again and had to get someone else to do the work. I remember thinking at the time this guy was not a good guy but I over road the internal warning and learned a lesson. I say all this because I think people are not as great at manipulating as we think but that they find people who want to believe their baloney.
Never give full payment upfront. 👍
Yeah I made a final payment to a contractor when the job was 90% done. It stayed 90% done. Never again.
@@guest_5992
Well said.
& to the point.
1/3 to start, 1/3 in the middle
& 1/3 upon completion❣️
Drop the mic🎤❣️
Totally agree. Especially the more savvy ones, they pick their targets
And always trust your gut and don’t over think your guts. Go with your gut
"Joyce expected her investment in her daughter to pay off; she never expected a lethal dividend." That line is brilliant.
😆
My biological mother is a prominent example of NPD and she tried to teach me how to lie and manipulate for financial gain since the early age. Boy am I glad I am away from her permanently.
It sounds like a case where one monster created another monster.
Well said
🔨Nailed it.
Sad story
My finals are over and I'm free!!! To listen to Dr Grande not diagnose anyone and only speculate on what could be happening. 🤣 Thanks Dr Grande for the video!
Enjoy your summer!🌷🏖🏝🎢🚣🌈
Congratulations! Have a wonderful summer!
LOL
That's awesome!💪☺️
This reminds me of the Gypsy Rose case. I think both Gypsy and Karin learned the unhealthy personality traits of their mothers and used these traits to manipulate the men involved to kill their mothers.
I've got a mother similar to this. Of course she behaves as though she's mother of the year and to disagree with her or tell her about her nasty behavior makes us, her children, the worst people to ever exist.
It's good that you recognize this and not fall prey to her manipulations. Not everyone under that kind of mother's control is savvy enough to see what's really going on.
If ever I were critical around my mom, she would say to me now lovely daughter you need to go pick up a mirror instead of a magnifying glass, perhaps the things you see and dislike in your brothers or sister or your peers are the things you dislike about yourself?
I never had much to say back to my mom.
What a wise woman🌹
Ya know, I used to scoff at that but I’m 40 now and struggling emotionally and I’m really getting it. It’s so true. Pretty much everything I don’t like about others it’s because that’s how I am. Your mom was wise. Mine was like that too.
Amazing how perception can be changed with context and experience. Oft repeated phrases stick around only if they apply on a large scale, it's the persons mind that needs to be ready to hear them
Vonna , my late mother , would have liked your mum. My mum always gave us words of wisdom e.g. If you don't like someone, then say, nothing. Hope your day /evening is going well.
I need to say that to my wife
This reminds me of one of Dr. Phil's favorite sayings: "There's just something about that ol' boy that I don't like about me" Lol. Now I don't like Dr. Phil but I do agree with that saying!
It’s sad that you never will run out of stories for this channel.
It's hard facing up to reality
If he does analysis of 1% of convicted psychos, he'll have a lot of videos.
But each case is a lesson if we will learn them!
I find your comment telling.
Humans will never run out of sad stories but at least Dr. Grande gives us a drolly hilarious perspective on them to keep us from getting so depressed about it all.
Dennis clearly played the second violin.
I hate the whole “they didn’t cry very much” shit. My father died by suicide and it was a terrible shock. I didn’t cry for over a week. I was busy taking care of my minor sibling, my step mother, funeral plans, and more. It was awful, but my brain just clicked into taking care of everyone. Had he been killed by someone else, I really worry about being treated as a suspect because of my reaction.
Same.
I have ASD and a very neutral affect so I'm sure if anything dodgy happened they'd say I was "acting suspicious"
I also just don't like showing emotion infront of other people so I actively try not to cry unless I'm by myself
This is one of Dr. Grande's main themes (along with bad lie detectors and bad NJ, Taco Bell, Jeep, and psychics!) No two people react the same way to stress, sadness, being accused, etc.
@@bthomson you mustn’t forget to include his cacti and three-time felon owl.
@@pembrokelove and alien lizard people, Dr.Phil, and cult leader types. :)
@@bthomson Noodle is a funny word
Joyce sounds like a total curse.
In today's society, considering how isolated families can be, having a toxic family member could not be more unfortunate.
Very interesting case, that is a lot to think about!
Thank you for the video.
How are families "isolated" in today's society?
@@johnwayne3085 I can't think for you your entire life.
You need to do research and have more direct experience.
@@johnwayne3085 You just can't follow my lead your entire life.
"Almost like she had no idea what she was talking about." Lmao
This is such a heartbreaking story. It reminds me of the tiger parenting style of raising children, which I was unfortunate to witness a few times. That’s quite common in communities of children who play orchestra instruments at a high level and perform in competitions.
In my opinion, this style of parenting does more harm than good.
Excellent review as usual, thank you Dr. Grande.❤️
Im not convinced that the Tiger parent philosophy is a bad one. There could be some attribution bias. In particular, it seems like the ratio of high achievers to murderers is actually pretty favorable among the children of “tiger parents”.
@@stt5v2002 that doesn't mean it's good for those children's mental health
@@stt5v2002 there’s a huge spectrum between fine and murderer
@@anjou6497 it's the parenting style of unsufferable a-holes who projects hard on their children.
It's clearly favorable for a narcissitic parent.
Yes but everybody who consumes animal products and pollutes and has no problem with fossil fuels and hunting and fishing does that… start with closer to you.
You know an abusive parent torches a child's life.
Not an excuse for her behavior. It's very sad, for all. In glad my NM passed away
Thank you.
Peace 💕🇺🇲
How did you feel when she died? I’m NC with my nmom and I just wonder what it will be like when she passes
@@haleytruslow7200
I was in NC for many years.
I felt complete relief.
She was 93 and had a stroke and went fast.
She did not suffer.
It's the BS that came after her death.
She had planned pure evil on us.
Peace 💕🇺🇲
@@m.f.richardson1602 😔 to hear about the after. I'm glad I have the immediate family pictures I have. NM and sibling
@@m.f.richardson1602 mom and I were the same way. She had me at 19 years old whilst she was bedridden from cancer do her and dad's taxes so that she could hide debts we never knew she had. The extent came out after her death 6 weeks later.
If it comforts or doesn't comfort you, strokes aren't painless. I had one from a vesicle tear at just 30. It was one of the most horrifying experiences of my life.
Kind of reminds me of the Gypsy Rose Blanchart case.
Immediately made a phone call. At the police station. Implicating the only other suspect.
How convenient
Well implicating herself too, so not especially convenient.
@@eadweard. She was already implicated. At the police station. Giving a statement. Kind of gives that fact away.
@@sixthsenseamelia4695 Even so, it's still not very convenient to be overhead effectively admitting involvement.
@@eadweard. Everyone knows police stations are surveilled. Either she's an idiot. Or it's a deliberate ploy. She KNEW evidence would point at him. Letter found on the bed - saught legal advice & withheld informing police for two weeks. No innocent person, with evidence of an admission, does that.
Just FYI, it's pronounced Row AY ton. It's actually a village in Norwalk, CT, although many residents and real estate agents like to pretend that it's not.
Great video as always. You should do an update on Vicky White. The ending of that saga is crazy
Casey White is probably the only person who could provide any significant insight into the thought process that occurred or how/why her whole life philosophy changed. I hope he, and they, are open to discussing it. Still, it would be interesting to hear Dr. G's take.
When the background discussion started I thought Dr. Grande was describing my mom. The two hardest things about moms like this are that no one believes your experience and it’s well nigh impossible to “honor thy mother” so, double failure. I can see how another person might murder, if I listen to enough Dr. Grande it almost makes sense, but why give up and throw your life away? I’d rather grow sweet peas and try to be grateful to my mom for giving me life. You’re doing more good work than you might know, Dr. G. Heartfelt thanks.🙏
That secretary was a great employee. She was like "I'm taking notes on a EVERY MEETING in this building. Even the ones over the phone.
I believe she was Guilty. And if it wasn't for her, her mother would be alive, and Dennis wouldn't be in Prison.
@@erdelegy hmmm yep I dont think its a reason to take justice into your own hands but karins mom made a monster. In a twisted way I wonder if she'd be proud, Joyce never persuaded anyone to kill for her so she'd have to admire karins skills a little.
Saves on having to buy a Mother's Day card.
😂😂😂
No, I've never bought one. My mother expected too much and made fun of myself and my father.
Consistency, a most important trait if you are a content creator. You got it down packed, Dr. G!
Maybe phrase is "Down pat?". But " packed" sure fits this channel!
@@bthomson I checked, and "down packed" is acceptable.
Casey white update please?
I’ve been wondering if the two Whites had a suicide pact that Casey backed out on.
Great analysis, Dr. Grande. Just goes to show, reasonable doubt can be a really high bar. Or maybe a low one. But that one juror who winked and hugged her later is a pretty disturbing thing.
Good afternoon, Dr Grande!🙋🤗🌵🪴🌵🪴🍀 How's everything going today? I already know you're busy! Lol Thank You! Hi, everyone!🍀💐✨🌺🦋🐞🐝💫✨
Still waiting for the day that Dr. Grande says "Hell yes, I can" after his intro question.
🌱 Hey there Dr. Grande🌵
Congratulations on the ever increasing subscriber count! You certainly deserve it. You always teach, inform, and entertain us. You never disappoint!!!
💯
Ooh your shirt is a bit trippy on the screen. Love it.
My narcissistic mum recently was teaching me how to manipulate my narcissistic husband :D gosh...(not to the extent of this case of course)
This worries me. I hope you're okay 🫂
lol. In your case, mother knows best! Being married to a narcissist is like trying to wrestle a porcupine. You'll never win, and be repeatedly hurt no matter what moves you make. Please, get out now, and stay out. You deserve so much better. Good luck. ❤
@@Throatzillaaa worries me, too. :(
@@Throatzillaaa basically (to calm everyone down) my husband didn't allow me to go and stay with my mum for a couple of months with our toddler son. He was coming up with every single bizarre thing just so that our trip fails. We'd have to go by plane, first he said he'll take us, then (closer to the date) he said he won't, he changed his mind. I had to plan how to get there by public transport. Then he said he won't give any money for our expenses. However, after talking to my mum, he said he will take us and pay for expenses. I asked mum what did she say. She said she was telling him how she's lucky to have such a caring son in law who cares for her daughter, and will take to the airport and so on. Basically, put him on a pedestal (knowing that he's neglectful and abusing). And she said to me that i have to be "clever" and learn from her how to get what you want. I felt... Very disappointed and disgusted, even though i got away from my husband for couple of months. My mum is also narcissistic but slightly different from my husband. I am safe, however I have started to plan ultimate escape. From both of them. Until i have learned to guard my boundaries.
@@frankydottir8762 Sorry if we made you feel pressured to share. It wasn't my intention, I just kinda wanted you to know that someone read your comment and cares and is hoping things take a turn for a better soon. I am glad to hear that you got away from your husband. Your mom seems like she is very good at manipulating people (and also sees that as a good quality to have and pass down to her kids). It's amazing that you managed to be raised by her, still in contact with her and not only did you not become like her, you are able to see what the way she goes about getting the things she wants is quite toxic and unhealthy. my heart goes out to your and your kid. you've managed to get space from one of them, and you just need to implement a plan to get to a place where you are safe and happy (and able to raise your kid in a healthy atmosphere). I believe in you, keep your chin up!
Thanks for the analysis, Dr. Grande.
Can’t find a babysitter that’s more intelligent than her child? O.o
I wonder if Joyce didn't think investing in her daughter's welfare was worth the expense. Or she was keeping her in isolation so no one would catch on to what was going on behind closed doors. Too bad... sounds like Karin would have benefitted from having a decent caregiver in her life.
Dr. Grande, Good afternoon. Just in time for a new episode…settled…waiting for a delivery but first I’m going to tune in to murder! You always report a balanced take on these crimes with a wry assessment of various mental conditions. Thank you kindly.
You do know, it's about real people? It's not a sitcom. . .
thanks Todd
The ppl who are in such abuse from closest of family like father mother or siblings or even all of them ussually exit looking in some kind crime that will liberate them from such abuse-as nobody told them and teach about healthy boundaries and voice for freedom...unfortinatly many dont have any other option then to leave and became homeless and in use of drugs.The closest family can be great support but major factor in somebody negative behavior.
After watching several of these videos the main takeaway is: if you’re doing crime, don’t keep a diary.
So sad & shameful what she did to her daughter. Always great to hear your analysis. Thanks Dr G😊💛💛
Zena - When you think of the normal loving supportive role a mom plays in a child's life the worse this relationship seems! From highly positive to very negative is a long fall! Not so surprising that there was a bad outcome!😓💀
@@bthomson True. Not every parent is great or loving unfortunately but she was horrible to her. 😑
Hello lovely, sorry been a sleep. Noah, decided he wanted to be fed hourly. I finally woke the boys at 5am and suggested they sing Mockingbird to him , only fed him twice since then , so I've been sleeping 😴😛😚❤💙💙💙💙💙
@@cottontails9003 Aw cute song 🐦💙It's 11pm here, going to bed. Catch you tomorrow ok😊😴💟💟
@@zenawarrior7442 Thank you beautiful, will give you my email address. Happy dreams and a great sleep 😜😴❤💙🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷
Well you typically learn skills from your parents...
It's the phone call from the police station for me
Very Disturbing.
It is nice to have a parent that teaches one how to survive.
Hopefully among other things?
“Typically ex husbands don’t come together to have a fan club”….this killed me! 😅
Narcissism
Karin's emotions betray her. Especially how she talked to Coleman on the phone after the police interview. She wasn't shocked or upset/crying, etc. She was in on it the whole time. She knew he had a key to the condo and opportunity. They had talked about it, planned it and he did the dirty work. So convenient it happened while Karin was away on a trip with Alex(alibi). Coleman and Karin both should have gotten life behind bars. It was premeditated murder and they both were in on it.
Yeah but the mom sounds like a really horrible person. She didn’t deserve to die I’m not saying that, but I could see how the jury kinda looked the other way when it was put out there how terrible of a person the mom was.
Why should she be crying like a movie?
Hi eb - Questions that ground us! Been missing those!😎
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim Terrifying. That's certainly not how I reacted to any of the deaths in my family. I suppose that's evidence that I'm guilty of something.
The way he says "deacon" in the same tone as "dingus" is hilarious. The undertone of "couldn't hack it as a priest, huh? Had to get that 😺" is killing me.
I've lived in Bernarston most of my life and I never knew about this case.. wow.
Omg, describing Joyce is like describing a mother in law I had.
*Dr Todd Grande Joyce+Karin 1977 appreciate your readings 📚 Listening from Mass USA TYVM 💙*
So did Karen have a personality disorder, or was her manipulative behavior learned?
Both
Trader, and Others: yup - its aka sociopathy.
I never taught Karen, but I have a friend who taught her at Naubuc elementary school in Glastonbury. She said Karen was quiet, but that her mother was insane. After the crime, Karen worked as a waitress at Franco’s Restaurant on Franklin Ave in Hartford, CT. At that time the Avenue was known as Little Italy, but it has changed since then. It was an Italian club/ restaurant owned by a mob underboss in the late 80’s.Bill Grasso, the owner was killed in 1989. I don’t know what happened to Karen.
Thank you Dr Grande! Awesome analysis on the case I thoroughly enjoyed todays video😊
where’s her dad??
Doctor Grande! Thank you for this excellent video. I look forward to your videos every day. Cheers to you from Las Vegas, Nevada!
Hello Dr. Grande, this case was interesting and strange. Seems like many individuals had tough times during their life. I have no comments besides this was strange behavior by the mother and the daughter. Thank you for this case. Best Regards. ❤👍
I'm just here for the soothing voice that helps me focus at work. Thank you . 😊
"Joyce expected her investment in her daughter to pay off. She never expected a lethal dividend."
Powerful stuff as always Doc!
Excellent analysis Dr Grande I definitely agree 👍
Love watching your followers numbers go up!
I'm addicted to your videos Dr. Grande! Hoping one day you can analyze the Brian Douglas Wells case. I remember it happening and it's still a mystery..
Well stated Dr. Grande! Thank you.
hello Dr grande. Can you please review the case of Larry Nassar ? Its a whole lot of content between the trial the impact statement the Netflix documentary ...
Any person or group that actively participates in gaslighting, manipulating, isolating and abusing others deserves everything that they have coming to them.
I have a question. Can you do a therapist roleplay with a vulnerable narcissist with or without depressive/anxious features and maybe some interpersonal difficulties (in the context of a romantic relationship)? They often present with these problems initially in counseling and I would kind of like to see a situation where the vulnerable narcissism becomes more obvious throughout the session. Also I think it would be interesting if you referenced the alternate model/criteria for npd when formulating the roleplay.
If you go thru his older stuff, you’ll find that he sort of did that.. like, an open counseling session. Go to his playlists, and you’ll find some. Best regards from Las Vegas
I would really like to see/hear Dr. Grande do videos regarding the BRAVO real housewives, one show at a time. There is soooo much 'material' there.
And you just know he'd start with New Jersey Housewives! 🤣
Hey Dr. Grande, please consider covering the story of Clark Olofsson and particularly the Norrmalmtorg drama.
Why couldn’t Karen live with her dad?
How can one person have so many terrible character flaws.. Her poor little girl. This was a very intense story. Thanks for your opinion on this, Dr Grande.
She’s a cold blooded killer.
Love the comment. Thank you.
@@cottontails9003 😇🤗🥰
Good morning from Australia. This mother seems worse then "helicopter " parents. The mother appears to be harsh and demanding. I find it sad , that Karen set up her mothers death. As for Dennis, if he'd never met Karen, being so needy , if he'd never would have committed homicide. In my opinion i believe Karen is guilty of the crime, she didn't actually kill her , but I think she planned it. Thank you Dr Grande. Excellent analysis and topic.
Hi CT and little one! So many adventures await! Life is so precious and full of fun and beauty! Enjoy!😍🐣💐🍼
Love your sometimes surreal ideas and your sardonic delivery and interesting case analysis but oh my you seem to be letting off that Alex teacher guy quite lightly...how old was he? What about his abuse of trust and exploiting Karen? It shouldn't be referred to as a relationship
I remember watching a made for TV movie about this movie when I was a kid. It was almost 30 years ago but i still remember how much the retelling freaked me out. Such a tragic case.
Sad. Great job Dr.Grande.
I rarely hold grudges, but my 3 months of work experience with a probable OCPD sufferer still angers me 6 years later. What an insufferable micromanager! I was supposed to take over her job, in which I had more experience than she, but she would not let me deviate in the least from her hidebound rules. It was the only time I quit with no notice. She made me that mad.
Grudges are like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. Time to set yourself free of that 6 year prison sentence. God bless 🙏🏼
Thanks!
I wonder if Dr. Grande could evaluate the case of Lacey Fletcher? It's difficult to understand how her parents could neglect her that severely, and also did she have locked in syndrome?
I read this book years ago! Still bothers me.
I wonder if Dr. Grande’s done Barbara and Heather Opel. I dont see them listed anywhere, but I worked with each of them when I was a DOC nurse, and it’s fascinating to say the least.
You need a license to operate a motor vehicle on the roads at age 15 but none to become a parent.
True
I guess she taught her daughter a little too well.
I wrote that before Dr. Grande said it.
It would be really nice if you included basic stats in your video descriptions. I can't be the only one that forgets dates and ages after the beginning of the video! Interesting, as always!
It’s sad. No one chooses to have a personality disorder, but they’re so destructive.
They had a daughter named (pause), Karen. Lmao 🤣
Yeah, but they spell it Karin.
Joyce reminds me of a "tiger parent" and for all her faults she did manage to marry 3 times. I wonder how she managed to attract men given her weird personality?
Manipulation. Narcissist types are the best at attracting people.
I've become so numb
I can't feel you there
Become so tired
So much more aware
I'm becoming this
All I want to do
Is be more like me
And be less like you
And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me, with someone disappointed in you
Wtf
I've been to Binghamton , all I can say is it's better then Hagerstown md
Yes king go off
😁
@@rejaneoliveira5019 💖🙌
We waiting for the Casey Vicky white capture please
Hi!! can you do or make a análisis on Patty Hearts, thank you for contribution 🙌🏼
I’m curious your thoughts on the Lacey Fletcher case…Her parents, Clay and Shelia Fletcher. Thanks soo much!!
You are a Marvel❤❤
My parents wanted me to be "perfect in every way". Fortunately I was able to oblige them.
I wish I had a mother like that
Thank you Dr. Grande. I like the new cactus twinkle lights. Would you turn them on for one video for us? I think Karin, aptly named, inherited all Mom's Cluster B traits; also picked up her manipulative skills. As you know, the scientific literature informs us of brain structure differences in these folks. My Mom treated me worse than she, but I would never be able to help do this. Also, she didn't have life insurance 😉
@Laura Christopher My sympathy, truly. I did the same but divorced..., unfortunately after producing two more like him/his family/my family. Despite my best nurturing. I recommend googling "sociopath/narcissist neurophysiology" and stick to the scientific studies from NIH, NIMH. You may be fascinated and relieved; it was never you.
Those lights there since Christmas. There were even lights actually on one of the 🌵!
If Joyce's co-workers didn't despise her, they must have been able to avoid her. Perhaps she didn't have much of anything to do with them. Talking in riddles is pretty darn weird.
Lethal Dividend- I think Dr. Grande has the title of his next book
OK,I 'll do it. She thought the affair with the violin teacher was the real thing, but he was just fiddling around with her.
Karin is a master manipulator! I obviously don't agree with crime, but I want to know her ways. 😯
My aunt and my uncle by marriage did this to my cousins. One cousin is just like her dad and though both daughters and their parents took extreme advantage of our grandparents this way, one sister was better and grew up and out of that behaviour more and then chose to cut most contact with her sister shortly prior to her mother's death.
Interesting.