I worked in a county jail. Im nothing to look at! Middle aged, a little extra weight, and never wear makeup to work. Every day there were inmates (men and women) trying to flirt with you. It’s something you are explained very well at our orientation. I expect a young detention deputy might fall for their game. I don’t expect a 17 year employee in a supervisor role. I’m shocked that none of her co workers picked up on her “favoritism” for this inmate. I’m sure other inmates tried to tell deputies but were probably not taken seriously. Sad anyway you look at it.
Many have no idea of the desperation of being aging, unnecessary and invisible. Waiting for death isn't fun and is so pointless. Going out in a blase of glory is an illusion but it has its attraction's. Casey was just along for the ride and I suspect not intelligent enough to realize that he could have been anyone. He was Vicki's escape plan.
yes, I think you are right passion is what fueled this adventure as much as his desire to escape and as much as her desire for a more exciting lifestyle. It was probably built up passion between them that had no outlet, so she had to break him out just long enough to at least relieve the tension between them. Take a look at his before and after photos. He looks much more relaxed in the after photos as he really did have a mental health appointment with Vicky. he got much more out of it though I think than she did. she bought him new clothes, pairs of sunglasses, he got to eat different food than jail food plus free sex. Then you can look at it another way too, "no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend." He was her friend, and she laid down her entire life even died in her flesh for this man. I think if she could have had a life with him right on, she would have not killed herself, as a life without him now is what she could not face the most. She had left all other people and probably would have never visited them again. It seemed like she just had just packed up and left them all behind, so she must have had some very tense feelings for this man who to me looks like a somebody who might work in a circus all those tattoos all over him and a body all out of shape, his pants hanging down his back showing his crack and those sunglasses he had on really completed the look of something you might see in a circus show act or something. But it is to each their own. We all see each other differently. Obviously he was attractive to her. Bonnie and Clyde though were a much more exciting couple and was known by all who knew them to be very much in love and I believe they actually were married; their career of crime did not last long either. They were ambushed by law enforcement who shot with machine guns multiple holes through each of them, she died leaned over on his shoulder. I do think they were living out some kind of gangster like existence for as long as they could. Her biggest mistake was not having a hideaway place to go directly to in one vehicle planned out with necessities to last them awhile. It was like a quick hike to a motel room for sex.
If you dig a little deeper into the prison culture, there is something known as “downing the duck” and experts say this is what happened in this situation with their employee and the inmate. And it’s becoming more common according to experts. The employee had her own personal issues going on and the inmate was able to gain her trust and get to know her personally. It’s easy for an inmate to pull the staff member out of their prescribed role when this happens and it’s all downhill from there. The problem starts at the top and works its way down in a prison culture where complacency is the norm. A “pre-violation” occurred when Vicky White was able to take prison to an appointment without another staff member being present with her. That should never be allowed. People are saying it was a well-known fact Vicki White was having a relationship with the inmate for 2 years. Even if she initially felt sorry for the inmate and thought she was helping by offering extra food or whatever, she was abusing her power with the inmate. “Downing the duck” can occur in non-romantic situations as well. The goal is for the inmate to have the upper hand with staff who are handling them. They could get all sorts of favors and privileges this way. Relationships between corrections officers and inmates is strictly forbidden and must be enforced. Even if it’s consensual, it is an abuse of power.
Just a thought but why was a female guard anywhere near a male prisoner - especially a 6'9" physically imposing character that had known mental health issues ?
@@twiglet2214 The question is why was an officer allowed to handle an inmate alone regardless if the officer is male or female. Proper protocol applies for an officer. Vicky abused her rank and power.
@@Vixen781 She abused it but why wasn't she questioned? Allegedly other's in the system "knew" something was going on between them yet no one bothers to ask wtf is going on. UNEXCUSABLE inside tolerances.
It's been said, "inmates run the jail."and Everyone else just works there . Inmates have time, motive and opportunity to abuse the power they've obtained. Don't understand this, but it seems to be accurate.
That part!! I was shocked to hear that he called her his wife and it sounds like he actually liked her. I feel bad for assuming he was just using her lol
A great example of a cautionary tale. It didn't work out for Bonnie &Clyde either. Desire is one hellofa fever. I'd wager it was the best 10 days of her life.
I was reminded of Bonnie and Clyde. Also, of the folk song about them that Bonnie wrote as a poem and that was later put to music. Seems like the Vickie and Casey tale would make a good country western tune. Sadly, I tried to write a tune about them, and the results are, so far, just awful.
@@batrobbins1890 you might need to embellish a little, Casey was a towering man so he's the grandson of Paul Bunyan. Vicky was the sheriff gone bad, the grand niece of Wyatt Earp, both running from something, he ran from the law, but what was she running from? Could be the devil....good luck hope that helps.
Although a corrections officer, Vicki was steeped in the criminal culture for 16 years. *“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” - Friedrich Nietzsche* Vicki gambled her life, livelihood and future on one man and a fantasy. There is no shortage of cases features on YT where women parted with their entire life's savings, and even went into debt, for an online romance. I believe there are strong parallels between the two mindsets.
The only 2 rational explanations for Vicky White's decisions are as follows... Masochistic tendencies, clear in women who support mass killers in prison as they play the faithful supporter of someone who's violated their own kind (Casey's primary victim was a women Vicky's age). The other explanation involves one of those mass killers that's had women fans - Chris Watts. He acted the part of devoted husband and father for years (like Vicky White acted the part of dedicated corrections officer), until the underlying resentment for sacrificing a very different part of himself in order to keep up the facade was finally unleashed like an aggressive dog in timid hands.
Dr. Grande she wasn't retired. It takes awhile to process retirement papers. The sheriff's office did fire her. So no retirement funds. Besides, how would she receive the money? One thing no one is looking at is was she depressed? She was a middle aged widow. How was she handling that loss. She also was her mom's caregiver. Plus she had a very stressful job. I think she was suicidal , depressed and angry. When I hit middle age as a female I found it hard to handle changes in life. But I got professional help. She apparently didn't. And that is why I am alive at 66 and she is dead at 56.
Vicki was in love and love has no boundaries. She had a fantasy of getting her man out and leaving her dull, lonely life. She was about to retire. No one knows what another is going through. It might have been a midlife crisis. Maybe she did not want help because she was in love and determined to do this. She very well may be in a better place now.
So sad. She traded her lifetime of work and service for 11 days of “thrills”. What does that say about her life? Thank you, Dr Grande for sharing your thoughts on this awful failure of the human psyche.
Somehow or other, I think the reality was less than thrilling, I bet her anxiety was through the roof during the whole 11 days. Probably never slept much, and was glued to the news stations, while holed up in the hotel. Imagine not having a destination. I thought during the time they were on the run, that she had purchased an off-grid property or an RV, or had some plan where they could hang out in some isolated place where they could not be seen by anyone, but a MOTEL?????? That was not great planning at all.
It says that she fell in love and acted on it. People do that all the time. In a prison environment, she fell in love with a prisoner, because those are the people she spent most of her time with. I don't find any of this difficult to believe.
@@Faristol7 Yes, the prisoners became normal to her. A plethora of dating material. Where I live, quite a few years ago, there was a young woman who was sent to the local psychiatric hospital. Before long, she came up behind a hospital worker there, and with a knife in each hand, brought her hands around the worker and stabbed the woman in the upper body with both knives at the same time. (The woman did survive the awful attack.) It seemed so bizarre and horrible to those of us who live around here. And yet, my neighbor was talking to a woman who was employed at the hospital and knew the patient. She described the attacker as a really nice person. Ummm, really nice people aren't likely to do that to a random hospital employee. But I guess she worked at the hospital so long, all of the patients seemed great to her,
My ideal daydream for Vicki: She puts in for her retirement, sells her home, begins traveling to many places she's only seen in movies. She also decides to check out some online dating with others who have lost their mates, and finds a wonderful person to enhance her life. I know she didn't ask my advice; but it still kills me that she made such choices, just before stepping over the threshold of a carefree retirement.
It would be nice if this had happened for her. It would be a good thing to organise support groups for people who lose their mate particularly later in life, not so much with the outcome of making a match, but just to have people to spend time with who understand the loneliness that comes with the death of a spouse.
I was looking forward to hear your thoughts on this case, Dr. Grande! It's such a sad way to go for Vicky. She was respected at her job. Her mother loved her and she threw it all away just to live a very short, poorly planned fantasy. I wish she'd be still alive so we could hear in her own words what she was thinking but I guess sometimes people don't stop and think.
There are reports from coworkers that she didn't have the respect of her co-workers and that she was not pleasant to work with. Furthermore, early on, her own supervisor said he was not surprised she ran off with him and that there was general awareness she had been "involved" with him for 2 years. People get work awards and promotions all the time without actually being decent people. She put countless lives at risk with this nonsense and took the coward's way out to avoid facing the consequences. There's no compassion or understanding to be had there when you put other people's lives at risk.
@@noshrinkingviolet007 I've read about it but which one do you think is best to leave a job: retire and leave the job you might hate and live a quiet life OR F it up even worse on your last day of work? Perspectives!
I think that she was missing something inside. She had been married and then divorced to a man that had been ill, yet she still continued to take care of him until he died. With that in mind, I believe she just wanted to be loved-in the sexual and emotional way a husband SHOULD love a wife. Casey told her everything she wanted to hear and so she risked everything for her ideal that couldn't really exist. Couldn't exist because as a narcissist he couldn't love her that way; and couldn't because of their life circumstances. Vicky wasted her life for him and received nothing really in return. I feel for her parents right now; because no matter how old your children get, they are still your children.
If she was desperate for love and attention then it wouldn’t take much for Casey to say convince her. She didn’t put herself out there and fantasies about Casey because he was stuck in jail. And depended on Vicky, he did refer to her as his wife. It’s not like he could go out and date like her so his options are severely limited. It’s either her or no one with life in prison. Of course I wouldn’t put it past him killing her if they had a falling out
Beautiful analysis of a model citizen brought to a sad ending. How many of us live lives of quiet desperation, yearning for excitement and adventure? It's a pity that Vicky didn't choose to execute a plan for an adventurous and exciting retirement with someone who was worthy of her as a person who was well respected in her community, instead of the arms of a criminal!
Was waiting for this; I actually watched the previous one when the news broke and wondered when Dr. Grande would give his 🇸 🇵 🇪 🇨 🇺 🇱 🇦 🇹 🇮 🇴 🇳 🇸 about what could be happening in a situation like this
Having dated a few men that fit into the "textbook abusive" type myself, in my past, I can say that, for some women, it's far too easy to (at least for a while) see what you want to see in a person, instead of who they in fact really are. And if that person is willing to act the part of the ideal partner, the fantasy is perpetuated at least for a while. Also, it's worth noting that some women are attracted to broken individuals that they feel they can help. I grew up in a somewhat dysfunctional family, so I felt I was a failure and I was attracted to others who felt badly about themselves, had a hard life or learning disabilities like me. We can't be entirely sure how the dynamic between them was. But Vicki was willing to dismiss that this guy was a killer and dangerous, to fulfill her fantasies. In the end what they both did was wrong. But Dr. Grande is right, he had nothing to loose and she had everything. She lost her money, her future and her life. She may have felt her retirement was too bleak to face alone and was willing to risk it all to have someone else to spend it with. No matter how twisted that fantasy was. Sad story.
I think both men and women like finding that broken person from a bad life and want to show them something better. As naive as it sounds that’s the mentality I’ve witnessed from dozens of people
I don't know if Vicky ever fantasized about being a criminal, but to me she was willing to risk her secure peaceful life for some excitement and to fulfill her fantasy life with this guy. She probably also lost any sense of reasoning the odds of this being successful were basically null, this guy was even difficult to blend into a regular environment
You can't work with criminals for any length of time and believe there's anything "glamorous" about a life of crime. I think Dr. Grande is dead wrong on his assessment. Vicky was NOT motivated by a dream of excitement or by "love." She had no husband or kids; she was getting older with very few emotional connections to show for it. I think she wanted to impress and be a "hero" to someone. She chose the baddest ass guy she could find to strut her badder ass credentials. There might also have been a lot of frustrated maternalism, as well. Tell ya what, there's a BUNCH of old broads around that, if it weren't for our kids and grandkids, we'd be dangerous women! (I also think the gun went off accidentally. She didn't INTEND to commit suicide.)
@@shombie2737 By that time, her phone app had called 911 without her knowledge. The cops were ramming the car they were in. I'd yelp, too! She says something about "the hotel room," and I think it was along the lines of "You just HAD to leave the hotel room!" or "We were SAFE in the hotel room!" And then, "Let's get out and run." Point is, she was STILL trying to call the shots. She just hadn't anticipated the final one.
This was such a weird story esp when details were scant in the beginning. This dude was poison from early on in his life, so nothing he did surprised me, but it is stunning how many people assumed she was his victim. As I learned more about her from different sources, she struck me as the type of woman I have met many times throughout my adulthood that date inferior men because it gives them the upper hand and a semblance of control of their men. Then they treat the men with contempt for being inferior. I will never understand how being in a relationship like that is somehow better than being single? Just boggles the mind.
you sound like you hate women. She wasn't a victim nor was he. She probably suffered from low self esteem so was willing to accept even a suspected murderer for a partner.
At the minimum, her superior at the jail were also accomplices. They were aware of the special treatment. They allowed her to spend time with him "off the clock." They are fully aware she was breaking protocol by not having another co with her and even despite the odd just dropping him off scenario, they don't even verify he had an appointment. They don't even report them as on the run until hours after they should have been back. All of that isn't complacency. Blatant disregard and accommodating the culmination of the relationship and escape. I completely agree with your analysis. So sad. Truly Thanks for the video!
Wow, the misplaced "compassion" for this woman in the comments! Did everyone read the part where she stockpiled a bunch of guns, including an auto-rifle? She was going out shooting whoever was in her way and, by the grace of whomever, LE got to her before she could harm innocent bystanders. Jesus.
@@nowirehangers2815 I agree. I am surprised at the sympathy for Vicky. She violated the trust given her to execute the duties of an officer of the law/protect the citizens from dangerous criminals and implement the judicial process. Remember she planned all this for how long we do not know. But her choice.
"Never underestimate the hold a Sociopath has over anyone. Vulnerable people make the ultimate victims. She was lonely and he took advantage of that situation"
I think what we are looking at is two people using each other, no matter what story she might have been telling herself. She used her power as a guard to get someone she found physically attractive to pretend he loved her; he used her desire to have a lover who 'owed her everything' to get out of prison, although not for very long. I find it troubling that so many people see all the agency here as his, and see her abuse of power as his fault.
She was a selfish idiot who put innocent lives in jeopardy by letting a dangerous criminal escape prison. God no knows how many people could have been killed because of her stupidity and horniness.
she was lonely and the prisoner offered her affection and some twisted form of purpose. I'm sure the prisoner took advantage of her loneliness and she made the decision to help him escape. sad because of her years of service protecting the public. I'm sure she could have found love eventually with someone of higher moral integrity and lived her retirement in peace.
One correction about Vicki being a widow. That part was confusing to start when the story first broke because they stated she was a widow. In interviews with her mother and her ex-husbands' mother, one of them said Vicki was married years earlier to her husband, but divorced him 4 years later because he was using drugs. I think the reason this part was so confusing, is because they continued to live together until he died of pancreatic cancer in January this year. Multiple news stations are still reporting her as a widow, but it's incorrect. Thanks so much for your take on this situation. My heart breaks most for her elderly mother who can't understand why Vicki did it and she'll never have answers now. The whole time she was terrified Casey would kill her. He didn't, but she's still dead leaving her elderly mother grieving and heartbroken. She left her sick dog with her mother before breaking Casey out. Maybe she wasn't the wonderful person they all thought she was. It's sad for all those she left confused and hurt by her selfish actions. Thankfully no innocent people in their path on the run were injured or killed.
Yes - and someone just told me that she was NOT still living with her ex at the time of his passing in Jan. So, all these stations are reporting who knows what and we won't know the truth till this settles down and someone decides to set everyone straight.
Oops. All the news I've seen reports it as Parkinson's! 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ Perhaps it's best we all not even know till the facts are actually reported correctly. What a mess :(
I’m wondering if this case could be regarded as a form of sexual assault perpetrated by the guard on the prisoner. I know that might seem odd and that no one has much sympathy for him because of his criminal past but hear me out. It is difficult to imagine a more severe power imbalance than that between correctional staff and prisoners. She was giving him food and special privileges in exchange for his participation in this relationship. Apparently he had mental health issues. I think that if the genders were reversed, it would seem pretty obvious that this was an abusive situation. Maybe a double standard is appropriate in this case, or maybe not.
100% right and, no, this op won't be popular but who cares. Absolutely, a man would be crucified if the sexes were reversed. It's also amazing (in a bad way) how many people immediately tried to victimize her when it is so clear the multiple steps she took to perpetrate this crime with a man who was truly a danger to society.
It would definitely be a power imbalance but not assault since there is no way to guarantee if did want to (which would be closer to rape or harassment) or was so mentally incompetent to consent or understand. Even with mental issues, if he had the intelligence to understand and know what he was doing than no, it wouldn't be considered assault
I agree 100%. The media are indicating that he groomed her, but I think that she groomed him. If this was a male guard (aged 57) and a female prisoner (aged 36) I think that the reaction from the media and the public would be different. I hope that Casey gets help for this horrific ordeal that he has suffered. This woman led him out of his cell to a ditch.
It’s so sad. I think a lot of people can see themselves in Vickie’s shoes. Most of us have mundane lives and fantasize about the thrill of escape and being an agent of chaos for a while. But we never act on it because most of us know it would end up exactly like this ended up. And now we all are seeing how her actions and life are being speculated about, and who wants that to be their legacy?
Very sad. I wish Vicky White had faith that the public would have had some compassion for her. Sure, she would have gone to prison, but I think the courts would have been merciful
As we age, our desire to be an agent of chaos morphs into performing mundane little acts of rebellion, like putting Sesame Street postage stamps (The Count) on correspondence with the IRS.
Although what she did was terribly wrong, I still feel some sympathy for her and it's not hard to see how this could happen. A divorced, 50 something woman who, let's face it is not very attractive, nothing but her job which she was retiring from and little to look forward to in retirement. Swept off her feet by a charming, dangerous criminal who obviously sized her up and saw her vulnerability and ruthlessly exploited her. RIP Vicky
If she got to have the shootout with police as they planned it could have been RIP police officers. Not to mention that as far as we know the guy might have already killed as part of their escape. Personally I'll hold back on the sympathy.
Dangerous on her part. If he killed before , he would have killed her probably during tumultuous times. She threw away 17yrs for a short thrill of chaos. In the end I would ask her if possible was it worth it? Taking her own life I guess she answered it for me. Sad but that's how I see it. Foolish hearts do foolish things.
A depressed and sad individual that hid it quite well. She had everyone fooled. She saw an opportunity to live some wild fantasy and threw every thing into it. What an unfortunate way to go, truly made me think of Bonnie and Clyde. Except this " Clyde" lives on. But he has the memories, Vickie ended her own story, she would never live in the prison of regret and humiliation 😢 Thanks Dr. Grande for having such an excellent analysis 🧐
Some of her coworkers said she was very calculating. And also, she had divorced her husband but she lived with him and took care of him in his illness. He just recently died. Someone in her office said she might have been grieving.
Having been involved in my husband's life in the last years (long after we were separated), people don't understand maintaining any sort of relationship with the spouse. Three years before his death I was doing his grocery shopping, and had been taking him to doctor appointments seven years before that, and visited him twice a day when he finally went into care. There were some that understood why I would help him when he needed it and others who criticized me. Regardless of how a marriage may have ended, one just doesn't turn her back on someone after 25 years of marriage and raising children when that someone needs help. I would have never, however, lived with him again; he had his own house. She would have grieved his death and perhaps did not understand why she did - it is a difficult place to be. Also, people will be critical though it's none of their business. Why she let this convict worm his way into her life is beyond me. I do believe she was grieving the death of her husband and perhaps the "might have been" as well - it just wasn't that long ago.
@@GlennaVan Ex-spouses are so often unacknowledged mourners. Step-children and step-siblings, too. What makes the loss of our loved ones more bearable is social support. Often ex-spouses are overlooked in this process, and they should not be. I imagine despite the challenge of your relationship with your husband, it was hard to care for him and to lose him to death. You guys had a lot of joint history. Unacknowledged mourners struggle and are vulnerable. Maybe that was at work in the White case. It's possible.
@@DaisyLee1963 You have certainly said that very well. In my case, it was more difficult because I did not expect it to affect me as much as it did and certainly most people would not have understood. What you have said about the "steps" is so very true!!! The man who was my stepfather growing up was very important to me even though he and my mother had been divorced since I was 15 - I loved him as if he were my father (and he loved me as well, even came to visit when my first son was born). The same was true of my stepmother. I have beautiful memories of both of them of the last time I saw them which was just weeks before each death.
Thanks Dr. Grande, I believed this the whole time and can't stand the artless stabs at a motive being proferred by the press. Something about the story is really poignant, it has echoes of Shakespeare or Greek mythology or something. It tells us about our true nature and how we need to feed our spirit or we can die in plain sight.
I'm stunned at this perspective. There are so many actually good examples of "romantic heroines" than this train wreck of a woman who did nothing but put people's lives at risk, lie and deceive, embarrass LE, and then flame out in a blaze of infamy unwilling to face the consequences of her actions.
Some people have incorrectly interpreted this as meaning I'm a fan of these two, I just want to be clear, I'm not. They made some insane desperate choices and what I'm in awe of is the moral and themes that are raised in this tragedy. I was captivated by the idea of this outwardly "bad" dude who apparently is ok, and this outwardly "good citizen" woman who I believe had a crisis and realised she had wasted her life doing what she was told and she never knew actual happiness. That juxtaposition of almost exact opposites. And the madness of deciding to do what she did, like....she could have just retired lol
Another amazing analysis. I look.forward to this video every day. You have such a carefull psychological insight filled with pathos. Such a tragic story, but at least she felt alive right before she took her own life
Good afternoon, Dr Grande. What a tragic event. Vicky, I feel so sad that she brought an end to her life. Thank you Dr Grande. Brilliant analysis and tragic outcome.
Her photo looks doctored or photoshopped. When I first saw it, I assumed the news story would be about a kidnapped or missing person or a composite image of remains created by digital recreation
I don't really know why people believe she had to find excitement or the excitement of being on the lam. Everything I have been seeing from following this case shows me that she truly in love with Casey and wanted to be with him. Maybe she had a YOLO that went super wrong. Maybe the pandemic affected her judgment which it has for a ton of folks. But even with YOLO, I don't think it's about intoxicating excitement. My guess is that she just wanted to be loved and cared for and hadn't been in quite some time :[
@@jillellen2631 yes, but they may have been “dating” most of 2 whole years, so some of that new-shiny may have worn off, u know? Casey’s mom said Casey was already calling Vicky “wife” before all this, so I feel like some real version of love was there for each other. I wrote some other posts about what I think. If you’re interested, u can look for my name :) I may write some more, if I can stomach it. This whole thing could’ve been so preventable. Instead, her mama who’s close to 80 yo had to bury her own daughter Saturday.
What strikes me the most is that "she was dying inside"... As you said Dr. Grande this is the most perplexing case. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this tragedy.
I am not a lawyer but I've read enough case law for my dissertation to feel that there is a strong likelihood of civil litigation. The Sheriff had information about an inappropriate relationship between his staffer and a prisoner. In my view, it created a duty to intervene and stop the relationship by making it clear it had to end or employment would cease. Had the Sheriff been more proactive and nipped that emotional romance in the bud between these two one could speculate that this would never have gotten this far. The Sheriff’s Office had knowledge of this long running emotional bond with phone calls and visits between them along with Vicky giving extra food to Casey. Had the Sheriff been a good administrator and done his job he would have immediately had a talk with Vicky and laid the law down by saying he would tolerate any phone calls between them and Vicky was not to give Casey extra food. If this wasn’t followed she would be fired. Obviously, this was not done and here we are with this sad mess. A better administrator than the Sheriff would have talked with Vicky about boundaries and it may have made a difference had the discussion happened.
@@karencooper7468 supposedly they found out this after the fact. So that means some of the staff knew, but assisted by hiding it from the sheriff. But irregardless of that fact he would still own some culpability, due to the fact he was the high sheriff. So that does not relieve responsibility to know what was going on between his staff and his prisoners.
Never get tired of listening to your measured analysis and then reading the comments of your insightful followers. There are some really good ones under this video that expound on what you delivered.
If they had just made it to a shack in mississippi and lived out as much time as they could together, they might have succeeded, for longer than 11 days anyway.
I was listening to this and thought Vickie was always what Vickie finally revealed herself to be, but thought I can't say that openly, then Dr Grande said it for me.
We all only have our speculations, the doctor included. We can't know much and can't know for sure. Even if my most highly respected shrink said, I'd still take it with some measure of "well, we can't truly know now, can we?" I'm not even sure Casey knows the real deal as I'm not convinced that he's °all there° based on people who actually know him.
She ended up her life before she shot herself. We don't know if she got involved with few other inmates and got away with it before Casey. She transport by herself an inmate where it is mandatory to do it by two officers. Internal Affairs have a lot of work to do here. 17 years is a lot of connections ... and cover ups?
Has a person ever committed suicide while talking about escaping, cutting themselves off with a gunshot? Do people normally scream in surprise when they commit suicide? I listened to that 911 call, apparently made by the car when the airbags deployed, and it sounds to me like she has only escaping on her mind, and she’s surprised when the gun goes off.
this is an unfortunate ending, but I needed to hear the Grande analysis on the inevitable conclusion Edit: I don't know how long it will take, but I'm weary of there being a true crime drama about this case made too soon. I know it will happen, but I suppose it will wait until after Casey's trial. Probably called something like "White Hat"
These women that allow themselves to be swayed/manipulated so easily by these types of men. Why do they believe they can change the man? Are the women in these situations just weak minded/willed or are the men just that good at manipulation? There's many cases of women guards helping male inmates over male guards helping female inmates. I wonder why?
Her loneliness, emptiness, and boredom are understandable. However, she had better options. She needed to start by seeing a qualified therapist. Need for excitement? Travel the world (she had the money) or get a hobby. Need for loyalty, love, and attention? Get a dog. Such a needlessly tragic ending that caused a lot of pain for others. The only positive in this story is that no innocent bystander was injured or killed.
Honestly she could have hit a bar and found 100 thirsty dudes just like Casey that would have gave her some D and attention. She was super smacked honestly but she had money, some guy would have pretended to like her just for that alone.
Well said well said such a senseless death there was so much more that she could have done I think about her a lot and I'm so saddened for her death and yes thank God no innocent bystander or law enforcement was killed or injured
She had a dog. She left it with her mother. Probably best for the dog since Casey had shot and killed his ex girlfriend's dog in front of her. You tell a lot about people by how they treat animals. Leaving her poor pooch is probably the last sane, good thing she did.
The fictional movie "Thelma and Louise" had a shocking ending that has been considered unrealistic or even impossible, but this case shows it was possibly appropriate.
completely agree she was dying inside but suggest she retired not to avoid getting fired but more because it was against her nature to miss work and she hoped no one would miss her initially.
I saw this movie Affinity on youtube that is similar to this, the guard's advice regarding talking to prisoners is don't give them your information not even a little because they will take it all.
Really appreciate an update on this wild story. Sad that she's gone. I made some mistakes and bad decisions when I was young...and now that I'm quite a bit older I cant believe I was so stupid back then. Your analysis is the only one I listen to and find the answers to.
The power of romantic and sexual fantasy is enormous. It can cloud a person's ability to reason or feel empathy. Maybe she spent years feeling sexually and romantically lonely and frustrated, and finally thought she found an outlet. Goes without saying that she'd have done much better to avoid one of her charges who was a dangerous criminal and found an attractive, interesting social peer. But who knows - maybe reaching out to a peer somehow intimidated her. I understand she was a mother figure to many around her. Having an outlet for maternal urges is one thing - having a romantic and sexual outlet is another. Even mothers crave sex and love...What a terrible shame. What a dreadful choice she made.
As someone who has lost two SOs my fiance I was with for most of my adult life and then the man that finally lifted that pain and started healing, I really wondered once I heard she was a widow if that somehow influenced this. Grief can destroy people mentally
My heart goes out to you ❤️ Hope you're taking good care of yourself and your mental health (thru therapy, self care, prescription medication, whatever works for you best).
I want to comment further on your observation about her dominant nature. I thought that was a great and keen insight. I wouldn’t have thought of that. I want to delve some more on that specific perception. I think Casey probably challenged her dominant nature/tendencies in a way that appealed to her intellect. She felt he understood her on a level very few did. This surprised and excited her. Surprised her because prior to being understood in this way, she didn’t think it was possible for a man to connect with her so effortlessly. She felt seen and appreciated. “I’m a boss bitch and it’s sexy” that sensation was foreign to her. It excited her because she had never felt so beautifully in her element. Thus bringing out a certain femininity that blossomed before her like a rose. She was ready to give herself completely. Also you are probably very right about her seeing the same last names as a sign. I bet that portion played a big part in this happening.
Dr Grande you described Vikki so well and said it so sensitively and brilliantly. I am amazed at your insight and talent. Always look forward to your videos. Thank God for you.
It's kind of like a sideways version of Dannemora. But she had to know she'd never get away with it. After all, a 6'9" guy kind of stands out, so to speak. I agree that she wanted to go out with a blaze of glory in some romantic fantasy, like in the movies or something. He, on the other hand, had absolutely nothing whatsoever to lose by agreeing to go along with such a bizarre plan. He was probably saying to himself, "Yeah, okay, whatever. At least it'll get me out of the "house" for a while. Who knows? It might even be fun -- and I'll get to have sex, and not the prison variety." This is why he did not partake in any suicide pact. He, unlike her, had no death wish.
It’s amazing that this whole blame has fallen on Vicky. I don’t condone anything she did. I also don’t know about protocol in Alabama, but I question where was the paper trail for the court hearing, why did the corrections officer/s let her out of the jail, and every corrections officer knows that you never ever walk in front of an inmate. I don’t care what status she held in the jail. If they had been doing their job none of this would of happened.
The plan: The jail was short staffed and laxed that morning …. the perfect cover so she seized on the irregularity, broke him out and ran off with him.
Thank you DF. I hope this will result in a complete review and overhaul of that facility, and tragic as it may be, a really appropriate training exercise for everybody in the system. It would only have taken one person to stop this thing by questioning what was happening.
I agree. The sheriff needs to be held accountable for the lack of protocols. How come no one noticed a corrections officer routinely calling an inmate? All calls are recorded.
She was the assistant director. Who questions the 2nd in command? She had worked there for decades and had a good reputation . Also, she made sure all armed deputies were busy so she could transport him alone. It was carefully planned.
Thank you for your update Dr. Grande. I feel that Vicky White must have been very lonely and vulnerable to allow herself to do what she did. Such a sad ending to a productive life.
I think the idea that she longed for an adventurous life of crime is short sighted. Love is the most powerful force. Im sure he made her feel so special.
I am going to be interested to learn more about her relationship with her late husband. How long ago did he die? Was it a happy relationship? Was Vicky grieving and transferring her need for affection onto Casey? Although I agree with the commenter above who pointed out that Vicky inappropriately used the imbalance of power to use Casey to achieve her goals, I think her goals may have been less about thrill-seeking and more about filling a sense of emptiness.
Amen. It's pretty startling to see anyone who's followed the case closely, with any interest in the mind/psychology boil this down to longing for adventurous life of crime. Love is the most powerful force in the world. And solitude/loneliness can make you take your own life.
@@maud2739 he passed away in January. Recent :( They ended amicably. They divorced long ago but still remained friends. Grief is something fierce. And I do believe that has some part to play. Even if you're over and past your ex spouse, them dying a painful, dragged death can trigger all sorts of emotions in a person. Someone said in the comments here that he only moved back in with vicky when he got sick. Idk how long that was for. I also was told that they weren't living together still, but media has reported that. And media has been wrong on... Lots. Before today, my guess had been that she may have helped care for him at least a TINY Bit before he passed away. Love and loss is a powerful thing. Grief is real. Perhaps she moved on and was able to compartmentalize him and Casey. Idk. I'm only guessing with these. I definitely agree that this is more about filling emptiness rather than thrill seeking. I do think she and Casey loved each other and she really wanted to have a real sense of belonging to more. Casey's mom said she had given his kids bday and Christmas presents. That breaks my heart cuz he was already calling her his wife by then (maybe even 2 Christmases ago?!) and I fear she may not have clear in her mind and in her heart. My thoughts are that perhaps she was in quiet desperation and it affected her wholly enough for her to trash her life, endanger the public after an unblemished career, and she may not have been in her total right mind.
@@catsberry4858 I agree with you. I read the interview with Casey’s mom, who said the relationship was initiated by Vicky two years ago. If her ex was dying of Parkinson’s during those two years, the relationship with Casey would have been a counterpoint to the challenges of caregiving and her longing for love. It’s hard to believe Vicky didn’t realize how unlikely it was that they could get away and create a new life together. Perhaps this is why she put all her effort into springing Casey and almost no effort into making a successful getaway. That’s why my theory is that she knew death was her most likely fate. She didn’t hesitate to commit suicide when escape was impossible. She knew what life in prison would be for an ex-corrections officer.
They won't. It's not that interesting. They would have to change the revolting main characters so much to make the relationship palatable, it couldn't be taken seriously.
What few people mention even in mentioning lonliness is how difficult life mighe be for a single woman over 50. The smirks on the faces of newscasters could hardly be contained as they air quoted Vicky and Caseys special relationship. Even Grande has put her in a rocking chair living out her life content as a pensioner. So much of what Grande is saying is true, but what maybe she sought excitement not just because she was a rule follower, but because she was simply a good girl who had nothing but a pension at her age and she wanted more. Grande thought she got nothing, I suspect with a trunk full of guns she knew just how it was going to end and went for the ride anyway.
Man, when I first got the alert that they were missing I knew it was gonna be a crazy story. Tragic... they both put countless others in danger and Vicky threw her life away for nothing.
Exactly.We are a ' flow of tendencies '. This looks to me like a systemic failure of the prison authorities as her employer to protect her from entering into an inappropriate relationship with an inmate - with mental health issues - and the lax procedures that had crept into the system ?
@@twiglet2214 The responsibility rests solely on her, not the prison system. She broke her oath of office, code of ethics, and she broke the law. That is her failure alone.
@@skyhawk_4526 Ok that sounds like a reasonable take on for me so we could just say " All her fault " and put the matter to bed but it's just that very rarely is any matter as simple as we would like it to be and there are usually multiple influences in situations like this - in an interview i watched with someone familiar with this corrective facility they said " It's chaos " also as a UK citizen the prison system here doesn't have mixed gender, i believe - weren't they in a long term ( 2 year relationship ) as i gather - that's asking for trouble surely ?
Thanks for the realistic look at this case. Too many people are looking for this moment of awakening where Vicky realized the error of her ways and it comes out like a soap opera. You hit on the head saying that she funded this experience and broke Casey out and was in on the chase at the end. It was probably some fantasy acted upon that turned out badly and sadly the Asst Sheriff got dragged down into Casey's pit.The reality is Vicky was not duped or fell under the spell of some wizard which many think happened. She acted on some fantasy and it was a fiasco.
I was waiting for your insight on this Doc. It really shows that some will throw away a life of stability overnight for what I call a cheap thrill. Maybe deep down inside she was always this person. That's also another way of looking at it. Always in control always the reliable person and took that life for granted. Maybe she wanted to see what that other side was like because some think the grass is better on the other side. The problem with that is they don't have the foresight to see all the dark pitfalls that that life holds and takes chances for the thrill of it. That's a slippery slope that I personally don't care to adventure on. Boring isn't always bad but some will never understand that truth.
After reading a number of comments, I think Vicky’s goal all along was her own death. Vicky had already been caregiver for her recently deceased ex-husband, and now she was faced with a retirement consisting of being her mother’s caregiver. By the time of her mother’s death, how old would Vicky have been, had she not carried out this plan? I think Vicky’s life was empty and her future prospects more emptiness, despair, and grief. The objective of her plan was a brief oasis of pleasure in a sea of depression and death. I understand that Vicky and Casey had agreed to a shootout, which inevitably would have led to their deaths. In essence, a shootout was a suicide pact. Maybe in her last moments Vicky wanted to make it back to the hotel so they could have a defensible stand-off and their Death by Cop blaze of glory. Maybe she wanted to get out and run so they could be shot for refusing to comply. Anything to avoid more years of unpaid caregiving and loneliness. But with her glorious Death by Cop no longer possible in the wrecked car, Vicky took the last remaining suicidal option available in the moment: her own gun. She died after successfully beating the system to spring her boyfriend from prison, and after enjoying a week and a half of being his wife. For Vicky, it was worth it.
@@comonena We can’t know why the 911 call was made. If things had gone differently, it could have led to negotiations. But it does assure a recording of the final moments.
@@comonena people are saying the car automatically rang 911 when the vehicle was rammed. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like Vickie is talking to the responder.
I’ve had all the “excitement”I need for my lifetime. I’m very thankful just to be still here at all. A nice, drama free, quiet time sounds just the ticket. Silly, silly woman. I will never ever now, choose drama, thrills, danger over enjoyment of every day of calm wonder. No way sireeeee. Sounds dull to some, but I have bought the T shirt and now want the comfy chair.
We will never know the truth and with her years of dedication, devotion and loyalty to her job I somehow wonder if this was an accident and while she had the gun in her hand when the car flipped to the right he was driving he’s a big guy he fell on top of her and the gun accidentally went off but we will never know the whole thing does not make sense I hope they try him completely to the fullest extent of the law he’s a monster
She got into Corrections in her late 30’s. Retirement in law enforcement starts at 55. Wonder what she did before becoming a C/O. I don’t believe anyone will accuse her of being smart or clever. You don’t attract quality people at low pay & a GED.
that ending monologue analyzing Vicki’s potential inner thoughts and such was powerful, Dr. Grande. what an interesting case, never heard anything like it
Maybe Jung would have said she had a negative, destructive animus. And Casey embodied it, brought it to life. Escapes always carry archetypal connotations, which is likely one of the reasons they fascinate us. Your interpretation makes interesting points, Todd.
She spent decades and her entire professional life in close proximity to criminal men, so she must have identified with them, apparently in crucial, unconscious ways. She finally saw a chance to rescue and liberate one. Really surprising, even shocking case. Maybe, as Todd said, she was thinking about it all along, or for some time. And maybe the impulse to do it sprang fully formed out of her unconscious. As the sheriff down there said, we'll probably never know.
I worked in a county jail. Im nothing to look at! Middle aged, a little extra weight, and never wear makeup to work. Every day there were inmates (men and women) trying to flirt with you. It’s something you are explained very well at our orientation. I expect a young detention deputy might fall for their game. I don’t expect a 17 year employee in a supervisor role. I’m shocked that none of her co workers picked up on her “favoritism” for this inmate. I’m sure other inmates tried to tell deputies but were probably not taken seriously. Sad anyway you look at it.
She was desperate. Really pitiful
Many have no idea of the desperation of being aging, unnecessary and invisible. Waiting for death isn't fun and is so pointless. Going out in a blase of glory is an illusion but it has its attraction's.
Casey was just along for the ride and I suspect not intelligent enough to realize that he could have been anyone. He was Vicki's escape plan.
@@sharonchristian8508 great point…I never thought about it that way…thank you for posting!☮️💗🙏
Her seniority was 27 years not 17. And at 54 yo she definitely knew better.
@@sharonchristian8508 That makes so much sense.
Love/lust does crazy things with people, literally millions of movies, songs and books are written about it.
Yes. I think it has been established that it's like being on drugs.
@@kam0406 probably even worse depending on the persons self respect or lack there of
yes, I think you are right passion is what fueled this adventure as much as his desire to escape and as much as her desire for a more exciting lifestyle. It was probably built up passion between them that had no outlet, so she had to break him out just long enough to at least relieve the tension between them. Take a look at his before and after photos. He looks much more relaxed in the after photos as he really did have a mental health appointment with Vicky. he got much more out of it though I think than she did. she bought him new clothes, pairs of sunglasses, he got to eat different food than jail food plus free sex. Then you can look at it another way too, "no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend." He was her friend, and she laid down her entire life even died in her flesh for this man. I think if she could have had a life with him right on, she would have not killed herself, as a life without him now is what she could not face the most. She had left all other people and probably would have never visited them again. It seemed like she just had just packed up and left them all behind, so she must have had some very tense feelings for this man who to me looks like a somebody who might work in a circus all those tattoos all over him and a body all out of shape, his pants hanging down his back showing his crack and those sunglasses he had on really completed the look of something you might see in a circus show act or something. But it is to each their own. We all see each other differently. Obviously he was attractive to her. Bonnie and Clyde though were a much more exciting couple and was known by all who knew them to be very much in love and I believe they actually were married; their career of crime did not last long either. They were ambushed by law enforcement who shot with machine guns multiple holes through each of them, she died leaned over on his shoulder. I do think they were living out some kind of gangster like existence for as long as they could. Her biggest mistake was not having a hideaway place to go directly to in one vehicle planned out with necessities to last them awhile. It was like a quick hike to a motel room for sex.
Also severe loneliness, can cause people to do strange things.
It have a casey white& vicky white movies ::
If you dig a little deeper into the prison culture, there is something known as “downing the duck” and experts say this is what happened in this situation with their employee and the inmate. And it’s becoming more common according to experts. The employee had her own personal issues going on and the inmate was able to gain her trust and get to know her personally. It’s easy for an inmate to pull the staff member out of their prescribed role when this happens and it’s all downhill from there. The problem starts at the top and works its way down in a prison culture where complacency is the norm. A “pre-violation” occurred when Vicky White was able to take prison to an appointment without another staff member being present with her. That should never be allowed. People are saying it was a well-known fact Vicki White was having a relationship with the inmate for 2 years. Even if she initially felt sorry for the inmate and thought she was helping by offering extra food or whatever, she was abusing her power with the inmate. “Downing the duck” can occur in non-romantic situations as well. The goal is for the inmate to have the upper hand with staff who are handling them. They could get all sorts of favors and privileges this way. Relationships between corrections officers and inmates is strictly forbidden and must be enforced. Even if it’s consensual, it is an abuse of power.
Just a thought but why was a female guard anywhere near a male prisoner - especially a 6'9" physically imposing character that had known mental health issues ?
@@twiglet2214 The question is why was an officer allowed to handle an inmate alone regardless if the officer is male or female. Proper protocol applies for an officer. Vicky abused her rank and power.
Yes, intolerable.
It can be used in reverse too. Guard/officer against inmate.
@@Vixen781
She abused it but why wasn't she questioned? Allegedly other's in the system "knew" something was going on between them yet no one bothers to ask wtf is going on. UNEXCUSABLE inside tolerances.
It's been said, "inmates run the jail."and Everyone else just works there . Inmates have time, motive and opportunity to abuse the power they've obtained. Don't understand this, but it seems to be accurate.
The shocking part of this case isn't that Vicky ended up dead. The shocking part is that Casey didn't murder her.
My thoughts exactly
100%
That part!! I was shocked to hear that he called her his wife and it sounds like he actually liked her. I feel bad for assuming he was just using her lol
Maybe????
He murdered her mind. 😔
A great example of a cautionary tale. It didn't work out for Bonnie &Clyde either.
Desire is one hellofa fever. I'd wager it was the best 10 days of her life.
I was reminded of Bonnie and Clyde. Also, of the folk song about them that Bonnie wrote as a poem and that was later put to music. Seems like the Vickie and Casey tale would make a good country western tune. Sadly, I tried to write a tune about them, and the results are, so far, just awful.
@@batrobbins1890 you might need to embellish a little, Casey was a towering man so he's the grandson of Paul Bunyan. Vicky was the sheriff gone bad, the grand niece of Wyatt Earp, both running from something, he ran from the law, but what was she running from? Could be the devil....good luck hope that helps.
@@gustavedelior3683 That's good!
@@GlennaVan I’d buy it !
Groumero and Jaillette ?
Appreciate that you’re the only commentator who points out that Vicki was motivated by sex and chaos.
"sexual thrall".
I mean, she did go to an adult store before her big sexcapade
Thannos and Euros lol
It’s amazing how sexual passion can blind people.
She apparently forgot the 'pause' in "menopause"
Although a corrections officer, Vicki was steeped in the criminal culture for 16 years.
*“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” - Friedrich Nietzsche*
Vicki gambled her life, livelihood and future on one man and a fantasy. There is no shortage of cases features on YT where women parted with their entire life's savings, and even went into debt, for an online romance. I believe there are strong parallels between the two mindsets.
The only 2 rational explanations for Vicky White's decisions are as follows...
Masochistic tendencies, clear in women who support mass killers in prison as they play the faithful supporter of someone who's violated their own kind (Casey's primary victim was a women Vicky's age). The other explanation involves one of those mass killers that's had women fans - Chris Watts. He acted the part of devoted husband and father for years (like Vicky White acted the part of dedicated corrections officer), until the underlying resentment for sacrificing a very different part of himself in order to keep up the facade was finally unleashed like an aggressive dog in timid hands.
Dr. Grande she wasn't retired. It takes awhile to process retirement papers. The sheriff's office did fire her. So no retirement funds. Besides, how would she receive the money? One thing no one is looking at is was she depressed? She was a middle aged widow. How was she handling that loss. She also was her mom's caregiver. Plus she had a very stressful job. I think she was suicidal , depressed and angry. When I hit middle age as a female I found it hard to handle changes in life. But I got professional help. She apparently didn't. And that is why I am alive at 66 and she is dead at 56.
Vicki was in love and love has no boundaries. She had a fantasy of getting her man out and leaving her dull, lonely life. She was about to retire. No one knows what another is going through. It might have been a midlife crisis. Maybe she did not want help because she was in love and determined to do this. She very well may be in a better place now.
Glad you got the help and are still among us.
Can't they give her mom her pension?
@@doglover4195 Usually no. I mean they fired her daughter so there is no pension.
@@shawnnewell4541 Shoot. I was hoping her poor mom would get something.
“We need to be inconspicuous and blend in while we’re on the run, let’s get a bright orange SUV”
So sad. She traded her lifetime of work and service for 11 days of “thrills”.
What does that say about her life?
Thank you, Dr Grande for sharing your thoughts on this awful failure of the human psyche.
sound to me that she had no respect for herself or her life
Eleven days of "thrills" but she had two years of planning and fantasizing.
Somehow or other, I think the reality was less than thrilling, I bet her anxiety was through the roof during the whole 11 days. Probably never slept much, and was glued to the news stations, while holed up in the hotel. Imagine not having a destination. I thought during the time they were on the run, that she had purchased an off-grid property or an RV, or had some plan where they could hang out in some isolated place where they could not be seen by anyone, but a MOTEL?????? That was not great planning at all.
It says that she fell in love and acted on it. People do that all the time. In a prison environment, she fell in love with a prisoner, because those are the people she spent most of her time with. I don't find any of this difficult to believe.
@@Faristol7 Yes, the prisoners became normal to her. A plethora of dating material. Where I live, quite a few years ago, there was a young woman who was sent to the local psychiatric hospital. Before long, she came up behind a hospital worker there, and with a knife in each hand, brought her hands around the worker and stabbed the woman in the upper body with both knives at the same time. (The woman did survive the awful attack.) It seemed so bizarre and horrible to those of us who live around here. And yet, my neighbor was talking to a woman who was employed at the hospital and knew the patient. She described the attacker as a really nice person. Ummm, really nice people aren't likely to do that to a random hospital employee. But I guess she worked at the hospital so long, all of the patients seemed great to her,
“Casey was able to enjoy 11 days of freedom. Vicki was only able to experience 11 days of captivity.” Brilliantly said.
My ideal daydream for Vicki: She puts in for her retirement, sells her home, begins traveling to many places she's only seen in movies. She also decides to check out some online dating with others who have lost their mates, and finds a wonderful person to enhance her life. I know she didn't ask my advice; but it still kills me that she made such choices, just before stepping over the threshold of a carefree retirement.
It would be nice if this had happened for her. It would be a good thing to organise support groups for people who lose their mate particularly later in life, not so much with the outcome of making a match, but just to have people to spend time with who understand the loneliness that comes with the death of a spouse.
Wonder where Her money is?
I rather retirement getting a pet and causal dating while I get a social life
I was looking forward to hear your thoughts on this case, Dr. Grande!
It's such a sad way to go for Vicky. She was respected at her job. Her mother loved her and she threw it all away just to live a very short, poorly planned fantasy.
I wish she'd be still alive so we could hear in her own words what she was thinking but I guess sometimes people don't stop and think.
She wasn’t thinking!
There are reports from coworkers that she didn't have the respect of her co-workers and that she was not pleasant to work with. Furthermore, early on, her own supervisor said he was not surprised she ran off with him and that there was general awareness she had been "involved" with him for 2 years.
People get work awards and promotions all the time without actually being decent people. She put countless lives at risk with this nonsense and took the coward's way out to avoid facing the consequences. There's no compassion or understanding to be had there when you put other people's lives at risk.
@@noshrinkingviolet007 well said- I personally have known people awarded who were criminally undeserving!
@@noshrinkingviolet007 I've read about it but which one do you think is best to leave a job: retire and leave the job you might hate and live a quiet life OR F it up even worse on your last day of work? Perspectives!
She was living a lie and was one of the nuts who crosses the line. She walked that fine line for a while.
I think that she was missing something inside. She had been married and then divorced to a man that had been ill, yet she still continued to take care of him until he died. With that in mind, I believe she just wanted to be loved-in the sexual and emotional way a husband SHOULD love a wife. Casey told her everything she wanted to hear and so she risked everything for her ideal that couldn't really exist. Couldn't exist because as a narcissist he couldn't love her that way; and couldn't because of their life circumstances. Vicky wasted her life for him and received nothing really in return. I feel for her parents right now; because no matter how old your children get, they are still your children.
If she was desperate for love and attention then it wouldn’t take much for Casey to say convince her. She didn’t put herself out there and fantasies about Casey because he was stuck in jail. And depended on Vicky, he did refer to her as his wife. It’s not like he could go out and date like her so his options are severely limited. It’s either her or no one with life in prison. Of course I wouldn’t put it past him killing her if they had a falling out
So glad you're covering this! Appreciate your take, as always!
Also, I may have twisted my ankle running to listen to this as quickly as possible. 😹
Beautiful analysis of a model citizen brought to a sad ending. How many of us live lives of quiet desperation, yearning for excitement and adventure? It's a pity that Vicky didn't choose to execute a plan for an adventurous and exciting retirement with someone who was worthy of her as a person who was well respected in her community, instead of the arms of a criminal!
Was waiting for this; I actually watched the previous one when the news broke and wondered when Dr. Grande would give his 🇸 🇵 🇪 🇨 🇺 🇱 🇦 🇹 🇮 🇴 🇳 🇸 about what could be happening in a situation like this
Wow! Big print!✅
A friendly reminder that he's not diagnosing, he's just speculating. Just in case you weren't aware. 😂
Having dated a few men that fit into the "textbook abusive" type myself, in my past, I can say that, for some women, it's far too easy to (at least for a while) see what you want to see in a person, instead of who they in fact really are. And if that person is willing to act the part of the ideal partner, the fantasy is perpetuated at least for a while. Also, it's worth noting that some women are attracted to broken individuals that they feel they can help. I grew up in a somewhat dysfunctional family, so I felt I was a failure and I was attracted to others who felt badly about themselves, had a hard life or learning disabilities like me. We can't be entirely sure how the dynamic between them was. But Vicki was willing to dismiss that this guy was a killer and dangerous, to fulfill her fantasies. In the end what they both did was wrong. But Dr. Grande is right, he had nothing to loose and she had everything. She lost her money, her future and her life. She may have felt her retirement was too bleak to face alone and was willing to risk it all to have someone else to spend it with. No matter how twisted that fantasy was. Sad story.
I think both men and women like finding that broken person from a bad life and want to show them something better. As naive as it sounds that’s the mentality I’ve witnessed from dozens of people
@@Sharkmane25 I agree, yes.
I don't know if Vicky ever fantasized about being a criminal, but to me she was willing to risk her secure peaceful life for some excitement and to fulfill her fantasy life with this guy. She probably also lost any sense of reasoning the odds of this being successful were basically null, this guy was even difficult to blend into a regular environment
You can't work with criminals for any length of time and believe there's anything "glamorous" about a life of crime. I think Dr. Grande is dead wrong on his assessment. Vicky was NOT motivated by a dream of excitement or by "love." She had no husband or kids; she was getting older with very few emotional connections to show for it. I think she wanted to impress and be a "hero" to someone. She chose the baddest ass guy she could find to strut her badder ass credentials. There might also have been a lot of frustrated maternalism, as well. Tell ya what, there's a BUNCH of old broads around that, if it weren't for our kids and grandkids, we'd be dangerous women! (I also think the gun went off accidentally. She didn't INTEND to commit suicide.)
@@pricklypear7516 Re: Gun going off accidentally - hadn't thought of that. Also, if you listen to her on the 911 call, she yelps twice. I wonder why.
@@shombie2737 By that time, her phone app had called 911 without her knowledge. The cops were ramming the car they were in. I'd yelp, too! She says something about "the hotel room," and I think it was along the lines of "You just HAD to leave the hotel room!" or "We were SAFE in the hotel room!" And then, "Let's get out and run." Point is, she was STILL trying to call the shots. She just hadn't anticipated the final one.
ii
Prickly Pear, right on. But I think it was the Cadillacs On Star that made the recording, not her phone.
This was such a weird story esp when details were scant in the beginning. This dude was poison from early on in his life, so nothing he did surprised me, but it is stunning how many people assumed she was his victim. As I learned more about her from different sources, she struck me as the type of woman I have met many times throughout my adulthood that date inferior men because it gives them the upper hand and a semblance of control of their men. Then they treat the men with contempt for being inferior. I will never understand how being in a relationship like that is somehow better than being single? Just boggles the mind.
some men prefer dominant women just like some women prefer submissive men.
The women i met like that had personality disorders underlying their relationships.
It's not, but they need control.
you sound like you hate women. She wasn't a victim nor was he. She probably suffered from low self esteem so was willing to accept even a suspected murderer for a partner.
@@patriciaaznavourian3014 what makes you think that he hates women? He didn't generalize women and talk negatevely about them.
At the minimum, her superior at the jail were also accomplices. They were aware of the special treatment. They allowed her to spend time with him "off the clock." They are fully aware she was breaking protocol by not having another co with her and even despite the odd just dropping him off scenario, they don't even verify he had an appointment. They don't even report them as on the run until hours after they should have been back.
All of that isn't complacency. Blatant disregard and accommodating the culmination of the relationship and escape.
I completely agree with your analysis. So sad. Truly
Thanks for the video!
Those are all solid points!
Exactly. Well said.
How in the world did you come up with this? IE.. That management was aware that she spent off duty time w/him. Etc..
Hindsight bias.
I also think the Sheriff knew (Singleton)
Wow, the misplaced "compassion" for this woman in the comments! Did everyone read the part where she stockpiled a bunch of guns, including an auto-rifle? She was going out shooting whoever was in her way and, by the grace of whomever, LE got to her before she could harm innocent bystanders. Jesus.
People skip over that part because she was only planning to kill cops.
@@nowirehangers2815 I agree. I am surprised at the sympathy for Vicky. She violated the trust given her to execute the duties of an officer of the law/protect the citizens from dangerous criminals and implement the judicial process. Remember she planned all this for how long we do not know. But her choice.
@@nowirehangers2815 She also broke the law herself
Good and underrated point. They were planning to kill other people with those guns if they needed to, to make their escape.
I almost wonder if she was off her kilter and was just really good at hiding it or the relationship brought it out
"Never underestimate the hold a Sociopath has over anyone.
Vulnerable people make the ultimate victims. She was lonely and he took advantage of that situation"
yeah, it's really sad :(
I think what we are looking at is two people using each other, no matter what story she might have been telling herself. She used her power as a guard to get someone she found physically attractive to pretend he loved her; he used her desire to have a lover who 'owed her everything' to get out of prison, although not for very long. I find it troubling that so many people see all the agency here as his, and see her abuse of power as his fault.
She was a selfish idiot who put innocent lives in jeopardy by letting a dangerous criminal escape prison. God no knows how many people could have been killed because of her stupidity and horniness.
she was lonely and the prisoner offered her affection and some twisted form of purpose. I'm sure the prisoner took advantage of her loneliness and she made the decision to help him escape. sad because of her years of service protecting the public. I'm sure she could have found love eventually with someone of higher moral integrity and lived her retirement in peace.
I'm sure that there were other men, they just didn't excite her
Sad, but true.
Yes, I agree. That is what makes this story so interesting and tragic.
The question is who took advantage of who???
She took advantage of him
One correction about Vicki being a widow. That part was confusing to start when the story first broke because they stated she was a widow. In interviews with her mother and her ex-husbands' mother, one of them said Vicki was married years earlier to her husband, but divorced him 4 years later because he was using drugs. I think the reason this part was so confusing, is because they continued to live together until he died of pancreatic cancer in January this year. Multiple news stations are still reporting her as a widow, but it's incorrect. Thanks so much for your take on this situation. My heart breaks most for her elderly mother who can't understand why Vicki did it and she'll never have answers now. The whole time she was terrified Casey would kill her. He didn't, but she's still dead leaving her elderly mother grieving and heartbroken. She left her sick dog with her mother before breaking Casey out. Maybe she wasn't the wonderful person they all thought she was. It's sad for all those she left confused and hurt by her selfish actions. Thankfully no innocent people in their path on the run were injured or killed.
In the South,, If you're married once, and your ex spouse passes away, you're a widow. It's just that way.
Would it be considered a common law marriage since they were still living together? If so, saying widow would be appropriate.
Oh, I heard he died of Parkinson's Disease.
Yes - and someone just told me that she was NOT still living with her ex at the time of his passing in Jan. So, all these stations are reporting who knows what and we won't know the truth till this settles down and someone decides to set everyone straight.
Oops. All the news I've seen reports it as Parkinson's! 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ Perhaps it's best we all not even know till the facts are actually reported correctly. What a mess :(
I’m wondering if this case could be regarded as a form of sexual assault perpetrated by the guard on the prisoner. I know that might seem odd and that no one has much sympathy for him because of his criminal past but hear me out. It is difficult to imagine a more severe power imbalance than that between correctional staff and prisoners. She was giving him food and special privileges in exchange for his participation in this relationship. Apparently he had mental health issues. I think that if the genders were reversed, it would seem pretty obvious that this was an abusive situation. Maybe a double standard is appropriate in this case, or maybe not.
These are not the kinds of thoughts we are conditioned to have.
yeap... power imbalance.
100% right and, no, this op won't be popular but who cares. Absolutely, a man would be crucified if the sexes were reversed. It's also amazing (in a bad way) how many people immediately tried to victimize her when it is so clear the multiple steps she took to perpetrate this crime with a man who was truly a danger to society.
It would definitely be a power imbalance but not assault since there is no way to guarantee if did want to (which would be closer to rape or harassment) or was so mentally incompetent to consent or understand. Even with mental issues, if he had the intelligence to understand and know what he was doing than no, it wouldn't be considered assault
I agree 100%. The media are indicating that he groomed her, but I think that she groomed him. If this was a male guard (aged 57) and a female prisoner (aged 36) I think that the reaction from the media and the public would be different. I hope that Casey gets help for this horrific ordeal that he has suffered. This woman led him out of his cell to a ditch.
Loved the inclusion of "wearing a wig" in the list of criminally exciting components of Vicky's fantasy at 9:45.
I noticed that, too!
A wig-wearing chaos-monger!
It’s so sad. I think a lot of people can see themselves in Vickie’s shoes. Most of us have mundane lives and fantasize about the thrill of escape and being an agent of chaos for a while. But we never act on it because most of us know it would end up exactly like this ended up. And now we all are seeing how her actions and life are being speculated about, and who wants that to be their legacy?
Na. My life is boring and quiet. I don't secretly crave any drama. I hope my life remains boring and quiet.
Very sad. I wish Vicky White had faith that the public would have had some compassion for her. Sure, she would have gone to prison, but I think the courts would have been merciful
No. No matter how boring my life was, I would never do something like this. She had a screw loose as well as he did.
As we age, our desire to be an agent of chaos morphs into performing mundane little acts of rebellion, like putting Sesame Street postage stamps (The Count) on correspondence with the IRS.
Nope. I don't want to be an agent of chaos. No thank you.
Although what she did was terribly wrong, I still feel some sympathy for her and it's not hard to see how this could happen. A divorced, 50 something woman who, let's face it is not very attractive, nothing but her job which she was retiring from and little to look forward to in retirement. Swept off her feet by a charming, dangerous criminal who obviously sized her up and saw her vulnerability and ruthlessly exploited her. RIP Vicky
I think she was a widow.
@@Throatzillaaa she was
Apparently they were divorced for years. He moved in when was sick.
If she got to have the shootout with police as they planned it could have been RIP police officers. Not to mention that as far as we know the guy might have already killed as part of their escape. Personally I'll hold back on the sympathy.
Dangerous on her part. If he killed before , he would have killed her probably during tumultuous times. She threw away 17yrs for a short thrill of chaos. In the end I would ask her if possible was it worth it? Taking her own life I guess she answered it for me. Sad but that's how I see it. Foolish hearts do foolish things.
A depressed and sad individual that hid it quite well. She had everyone fooled. She saw an opportunity to live some wild fantasy and threw every thing into it. What an unfortunate way to go, truly made me think of Bonnie and Clyde. Except this " Clyde" lives on. But he has the memories, Vickie ended her own story, she would never live in the prison of regret and humiliation 😢 Thanks Dr. Grande for having such an excellent analysis 🧐
I still feel really bad for Vicki. Regardless it's seem like she was really lonely.
She was lonely and she didn’t realize her worth.
Her mother is heart broken. Vicki even left her dog behind!
Now it can be carted off 2 that Chinese joint down the street.
@@jet4415 The fact that she had a mother alive is terrible. She wasn't as alone as she thought.
Of course you feel bad for her. I bet you feel bad for elliot rodger too
Dr Gande, I’ve watched your channel grow from a few hundred to over a million. Nice work and I enjoy listening!
Some of her coworkers said she was very calculating. And also, she had divorced her husband but she lived with him and took care of him in his illness. He just recently died. Someone in her office said she might have been grieving.
Makes sense. Loneliness and grief are an intense combination. Grieving alone and/or unacknowledged grief can lead to all kinds of terrible judgment.
Grief can certainly cloud judgment.
Having been involved in my husband's life in the last years (long after we were separated), people don't understand maintaining any sort of relationship with the spouse. Three years before his death I was doing his grocery shopping, and had been taking him to doctor appointments seven years before that, and visited him twice a day when he finally went into care. There were some that understood why I would help him when he needed it and others who criticized me. Regardless of how a marriage may have ended, one just doesn't turn her back on someone after 25 years of marriage and raising children when that someone needs help. I would have never, however, lived with him again; he had his own house.
She would have grieved his death and perhaps did not understand why she did - it is a difficult place to be. Also, people will be critical though it's none of their business. Why she let this convict worm his way into her life is beyond me.
I do believe she was grieving the death of her husband and perhaps the "might have been" as well - it just wasn't that long ago.
@@GlennaVan Ex-spouses are so often unacknowledged mourners. Step-children and step-siblings, too. What makes the loss of our loved ones more bearable is social support. Often ex-spouses are overlooked in this process, and they should not be. I imagine despite the challenge of your relationship with your husband, it was hard to care for him and to lose him to death. You guys had a lot of joint history.
Unacknowledged mourners struggle and are vulnerable. Maybe that was at work in the White case. It's possible.
@@DaisyLee1963 You have certainly said that very well. In my case, it was more difficult because I did not expect it to affect me as much as it did and certainly most people would not have understood.
What you have said about the "steps" is so very true!!! The man who was my stepfather growing up was very important to me even though he and my mother had been divorced since I was 15 - I loved him as if he were my father (and he loved me as well, even came to visit when my first son was born). The same was true of my stepmother. I have beautiful memories of both of them of the last time I saw them which was just weeks before each death.
Dr. G is Crushing it on sheer volume of content; good lord this man is a RUclips machine! :) - Long time viewer, first time commenting.
Thanks Dr. Grande, I believed this the whole time and can't stand the artless stabs at a motive being proferred by the press.
Something about the story is really poignant, it has echoes of Shakespeare or Greek mythology or something. It tells us about our true nature and how we need to feed our spirit or we can die in plain sight.
So right - Vicky is a true romantic 'herine' - the ones you find in universal literature. She died for her own true love. R. I. P., Vicky. 💔
It's not an uncommon story, unfortunately. This happens often--jailhouse romances between the staff and inmates.
I'm stunned at this perspective. There are so many actually good examples of "romantic heroines" than this train wreck of a woman who did nothing but put people's lives at risk, lie and deceive, embarrass LE, and then flame out in a blaze of infamy unwilling to face the consequences of her actions.
@@noshrinkingviolet007 the actual truth!
Some people have incorrectly interpreted this as meaning I'm a fan of these two, I just want to be clear, I'm not. They made some insane desperate choices and what I'm in awe of is the moral and themes that are raised in this tragedy. I was captivated by the idea of this outwardly "bad" dude who apparently is ok, and this outwardly "good citizen" woman who I believe had a crisis and realised she had wasted her life doing what she was told and she never knew actual happiness. That juxtaposition of almost exact opposites. And the madness of deciding to do what she did, like....she could have just retired lol
Another amazing analysis. I look.forward to this video every day. You have such a carefull psychological insight filled with pathos. Such a tragic story, but at least she felt alive right before she took her own life
Good afternoon, Dr Grande. What a tragic event. Vicky, I feel so sad that she brought an end to her life. Thank you Dr Grande. Brilliant analysis and tragic outcome.
Couldn't click faster. Love your stuff Doctor!
I once heard, “The fantasy is not the reality.” Wise words
Her photo looks doctored or photoshopped. When I first saw it, I assumed the news story would be about a kidnapped or missing person or a composite image of remains created by digital recreation
omfg 🤣😂🙃😂
🤣🤣🤣
Nah, that’s how white people down south looks like
Okay so it’s NOT funny but someone who knew her said (on the news) she is 57 but she looks 75 in real life 😭😭😭….you might be on to something
@@BoutiqueLaTrice that guy was appropriately salty at Vicky White. Hilarious interview 😂😂😂
She never had any real excitement and when she finally experienced it, it was too intoxicating for her. Hope it was worth it for you Vicki.
Vicki may very well be in a better place.
Pity she didn't get to have the shootout with police that they planned I guess?
I don't really know why people believe she had to find excitement or the excitement of being on the lam. Everything I have been seeing from following this case shows me that she truly in love with Casey and wanted to be with him.
Maybe she had a YOLO that went super wrong. Maybe the pandemic affected her judgment which it has for a ton of folks. But even with YOLO, I don't think it's about intoxicating excitement. My guess is that she just wanted to be loved and cared for and hadn't been in quite some time :[
@@catsberry4858 But isn't new love intoxicating excitement?
@@jillellen2631 yes, but they may have been “dating” most of 2 whole years, so some of that new-shiny may have worn off, u know? Casey’s mom said Casey was already calling Vicky “wife” before all this, so I feel like some real version of love was there for each other. I wrote some other posts about what I think. If you’re interested, u can look for my name :) I may write some more, if I can stomach it. This whole thing could’ve been so preventable. Instead, her mama who’s close to 80 yo had to bury her own daughter Saturday.
What strikes me the most is that "she was dying inside"... As you said Dr. Grande this is the most perplexing case. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this tragedy.
what she may have been going thru had to be worst than we could ever imagine
@@DewnetteReid exactly
I am not a lawyer but I've read enough case law for my dissertation to feel that there is a strong likelihood of civil litigation. The Sheriff had information about an inappropriate relationship between his staffer and a prisoner. In my view, it created a duty to intervene and stop the relationship by making it clear it had to end or employment would cease. Had the Sheriff been more proactive and nipped that emotional romance in the bud between these two one could speculate that this would never have gotten this far. The Sheriff’s Office had knowledge of this long running emotional bond with phone calls and visits between them along with Vicky giving extra food to Casey. Had the Sheriff been a good administrator and done his job he would have immediately had a talk with Vicky and laid the law down by saying he would tolerate any phone calls between them and Vicky was not to give Casey extra food. If this wasn’t followed she would be fired. Obviously, this was not done and here we are with this sad mess. A better administrator than the Sheriff would have talked with Vicky about boundaries and it may have made a difference had the discussion happened.
Sheriff is retiring in January 2023. His office was not at jail. It was in courthouse. I doubt he ever went to jail.
@@karencooper7468 supposedly they found out this after the fact. So that means some of the staff knew, but assisted by hiding it from the sheriff. But irregardless of that fact he would still own some culpability, due to the fact he was the high sheriff. So that does not relieve responsibility to know what was going on between his staff and his prisoners.
Never get tired of listening to your measured analysis and then reading the comments of your insightful followers. There are some really good ones under this video that expound on what you delivered.
If they had just made it to a shack in mississippi and lived out as much time as they could together, they might have succeeded, for longer than 11 days anyway.
Dr Grande I don’t know how you find the time but I’m so grateful you do 🙏
I was listening to this and thought Vickie was always what Vickie finally revealed herself to be, but thought I can't say that openly, then Dr Grande said it for me.
The truth always prevails.
We all only have our speculations, the doctor included. We can't know much and can't know for sure. Even if my most highly respected shrink said, I'd still take it with some measure of "well, we can't truly know now, can we?" I'm not even sure Casey knows the real deal as I'm not convinced that he's °all there° based on people who actually know him.
Thanks for filling all the gaps and answering all my questions on this case Dr. Grande.
She ended up her life before she shot herself. We don't know if she got involved with few other inmates and got away with it before Casey. She transport by herself an inmate where it is mandatory to do it by two officers. Internal Affairs have a lot of work to do here. 17 years is a lot of connections ... and cover ups?
Good point.
“After a time, you may find that 'having' is not so pleasing a thing after all as 'wanting. ' It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Mr. Spock
Has a person ever committed suicide while talking about escaping, cutting themselves off with a gunshot? Do people normally scream in surprise when they commit suicide?
I listened to that 911 call, apparently made by the car when the airbags deployed, and it sounds to me like she has only escaping on her mind, and she’s surprised when the gun goes off.
Your right
Correct
this is an unfortunate ending, but I needed to hear the Grande analysis on the inevitable conclusion
Edit: I don't know how long it will take, but I'm weary of there being a true crime drama about this case made too soon. I know it will happen, but I suppose it will wait until after Casey's trial. Probably called something like "White Hat"
These women that allow themselves to be swayed/manipulated so easily by these types of men. Why do they believe they can change the man? Are the women in these situations just weak minded/willed or are the men just that good at manipulation? There's many cases of women guards helping male inmates over male guards helping female inmates. I wonder why?
They're probably writing it furiously as we speak 😑😑
Maybe something like a musical a lousy one of course.
@@eddysgaming9868 I think John Hamm could play him. He's tall and kind of looks like the dude.😆
@@RowanWarren78 Jon Hamm with ear prosthetics and 8-inch stilts
Her loneliness, emptiness, and boredom are understandable. However, she had better options. She needed to start by seeing a qualified therapist. Need for excitement? Travel the world (she had the money) or get a hobby. Need for loyalty, love, and attention? Get a dog.
Such a needlessly tragic ending that caused a lot of pain for others. The only positive in this story is that no innocent bystander was injured or killed.
Honestly she could have hit a bar and found 100 thirsty dudes just like Casey that would have gave her some D and attention. She was super smacked honestly but she had money, some guy would have pretended to like her just for that alone.
Well said well said such a senseless death there was so much more that she could have done I think about her a lot and I'm so saddened for her death and yes thank God no innocent bystander or law enforcement was killed or injured
She had a dog. She left it with her mother. Probably best for the dog since Casey had shot and killed his ex girlfriend's dog in front of her. You tell a lot about people by how they treat animals. Leaving her poor pooch is probably the last sane, good thing she did.
Personality disorders or other psychological disorders/problems such as trauma, can compel people to engage in risky illogical behaviors. 😢
“Get a dog” 🤮
I was hoping you would have an update on this case! Your insight and analysis is, as always, much appreciated.
You always bring the goods, doc. Thanks for these videos.
The fictional movie "Thelma and Louise" had a shocking ending that has been considered unrealistic or even impossible, but this case shows it was possibly appropriate.
completely agree she was dying inside but suggest she retired not to avoid getting fired but more because it was against her nature to miss work and she hoped no one would miss her initially.
Retiring meant nothing. It was part of her manipulation and distraction from the events of the next day
your humor and jokes in these two videos are so good, love it
I saw this movie Affinity on youtube that is similar to this, the guard's advice regarding talking to prisoners is don't give them your information not even a little because they will take it all.
Really appreciate an update on this wild story. Sad that she's gone. I made some mistakes and bad decisions when I was young...and now that I'm quite a bit older I cant believe I was so stupid back then. Your analysis is the only one I listen to and find the answers to.
The power of romantic and sexual fantasy is enormous. It can cloud a person's ability to reason or feel empathy.
Maybe she spent years feeling sexually and romantically lonely and frustrated, and finally thought she found an outlet. Goes without saying that she'd have done much better to avoid one of her charges who was a dangerous criminal and found an attractive, interesting social peer. But who knows - maybe reaching out to a peer somehow intimidated her.
I understand she was a mother figure to many around her. Having an outlet for maternal urges is one thing - having a romantic and sexual outlet is another. Even mothers crave sex and love...What a terrible shame. What a dreadful choice she made.
@DaisyLee1963 perfectly described with a great deal of insight
I couldn’t agree with you more.
And after they ran, she suddenly realized that he had ED. "What have I done?" she asked herself.
so if some charlie manson keen eye type comes along . . . . . EXACTLY.
As someone who has lost two SOs my fiance I was with for most of my adult life and then the man that finally lifted that pain and started healing, I really wondered once I heard she was a widow if that somehow influenced this. Grief can destroy people mentally
My heart goes out to you ❤️ Hope you're taking good care of yourself and your mental health (thru therapy, self care, prescription medication, whatever works for you best).
I want to comment further on your observation about her dominant nature. I thought that was a great and keen insight. I wouldn’t have thought of that. I want to delve some more on that specific perception. I think Casey probably challenged her dominant nature/tendencies in a way that appealed to her intellect. She felt he understood her on a level very few did. This surprised and excited her. Surprised her because prior to being understood in this way, she didn’t think it was possible for a man to connect with her so effortlessly. She felt seen and appreciated. “I’m a boss bitch and it’s sexy” that sensation was foreign to her. It excited her because she had never felt so beautifully in her element. Thus bringing out a certain femininity that blossomed before her like a rose. She was ready to give herself completely.
Also you are probably very right about her seeing the same last names as a sign. I bet that portion played a big part in this happening.
Dr Grande you described Vikki so well and said it so sensitively and brilliantly. I am amazed at your insight and talent. Always look forward to your videos. Thank God for you.
I can't believe he was 38 years old! He looks 58.
Guessing that's from meth.
Dr. Grande, once again your calm assessment eases another horrible situation. Thank you.
It's kind of like a sideways version of Dannemora. But she had to know she'd never get away with it. After all, a 6'9" guy kind of stands out, so to speak. I agree that she wanted to go out with a blaze of glory in some romantic fantasy, like in the movies or something. He, on the other hand, had absolutely nothing whatsoever to lose by agreeing to go along with such a bizarre plan. He was probably saying to himself, "Yeah, okay, whatever. At least it'll get me out of the "house" for a while. Who knows? It might even be fun -- and I'll get to have sex, and not the prison variety." This is why he did not partake in any suicide pact. He, unlike her, had no death wish.
The B was nuts obviously
I think she shot herself on accident.
It’s amazing that this whole blame has fallen on Vicky. I don’t condone anything she did. I also don’t know about protocol in Alabama, but I question where was the paper trail for the court hearing, why did the corrections officer/s let her out of the jail, and every corrections officer knows that you never ever walk in front of an inmate. I don’t care what status she held in the jail. If they had been doing their job none of this would of happened.
The plan: The jail was short staffed and laxed that morning …. the perfect cover so she seized on the irregularity, broke him out and ran off with him.
I find that hard to believe as an excuse. We worked with two people due to illness and still did our jobs.
Thank you DF. I hope this will result in a complete review and overhaul of that facility, and tragic as it may be, a really appropriate training exercise for everybody in the system. It would only have taken one person to stop this thing by questioning what was happening.
I agree. The sheriff needs to be held accountable for the lack of protocols. How come no one noticed a corrections officer routinely calling an inmate? All calls are recorded.
She was the assistant director. Who questions the 2nd in command? She had worked there for decades and had a good reputation . Also, she made sure all armed deputies were busy so she could transport him alone. It was carefully planned.
Brilliant analysis!!! The best, by far, summary of what most likely happened. Thank you Dr. Grande!!!
Thank you for your update Dr. Grande. I feel that Vicky White must have been very lonely and vulnerable to allow herself to do what she did. Such a sad ending to a productive life.
She wasn't lonely or vulnerable - just knew what she wanted - Casey.
Exactly
Grrrrrrrrrreeat commentary Dr Grande!! I've listened to your, summation now, twice 👏👏💥‼️
Thank you Dr Grande; I was hoping you would do an analysis on them. You're awesome 👍
I think the idea that she longed for an adventurous life of crime is short sighted. Love is the most powerful force. Im sure he made her feel so special.
I am going to be interested to learn more about her relationship with her late husband. How long ago did he die? Was it a happy relationship? Was Vicky grieving and transferring her need for affection onto Casey? Although I agree with the commenter above who pointed out that Vicky inappropriately used the imbalance of power to use Casey to achieve her goals, I think her goals may have been less about thrill-seeking and more about filling a sense of emptiness.
Amen. It's pretty startling to see anyone who's followed the case closely, with any interest in the mind/psychology boil this down to longing for adventurous life of crime.
Love is the most powerful force in the world. And solitude/loneliness can make you take your own life.
@@maud2739 he passed away in January. Recent :(
They ended amicably.
They divorced long ago but still remained friends. Grief is something fierce. And I do believe that has some part to play. Even if you're over and past your ex spouse, them dying a painful, dragged death can trigger all sorts of emotions in a person.
Someone said in the comments here that he only moved back in with vicky when he got sick. Idk how long that was for. I also was told that they weren't living together still, but media has reported that. And media has been wrong on... Lots.
Before today, my guess had been that she may have helped care for him at least a TINY Bit before he passed away. Love and loss is a powerful thing. Grief is real. Perhaps she moved on and was able to compartmentalize him and Casey. Idk. I'm only guessing with these.
I definitely agree that this is more about filling emptiness rather than thrill seeking. I do think she and Casey loved each other and she really wanted to have a real sense of belonging to more. Casey's mom said she had given his kids bday and Christmas presents. That breaks my heart cuz he was already calling her his wife by then (maybe even 2 Christmases ago?!) and I fear she may not have clear in her mind and in her heart. My thoughts are that perhaps she was in quiet desperation and it affected her wholly enough for her to trash her life, endanger the public after an unblemished career, and she may not have been in her total right mind.
@@catsberry4858 I agree with you. I read the interview with Casey’s mom, who said the relationship was initiated by Vicky two years ago. If her ex was dying of Parkinson’s during those two years, the relationship with Casey would have been a counterpoint to the challenges of caregiving and her longing for love.
It’s hard to believe Vicky didn’t realize how unlikely it was that they could get away and create a new life together. Perhaps this is why she put all her effort into springing Casey and almost no effort into making a successful getaway. That’s why my theory is that she knew death was her most likely fate. She didn’t hesitate to commit suicide when escape was impossible. She knew what life in prison would be for an ex-corrections officer.
I was bummed when I heard the news. I really wanted to know what her side of the story was. What emotions she must have been feeling.
Whatever they were, there's no rational, justifiable reason for what she did. It was complete selfishness on her part.
@@kevinmalone3210depression and sick of life.
I’m sure someone will make a movie about this. Your analysis is different than probably most people’s. I wonder how she’ll be portrayed in the movie.
I see Faye Dunaway and Warren Beatty in comeback roles
They won't. It's not that interesting. They would have to change the revolting main characters so much to make the relationship palatable, it couldn't be taken seriously.
@@eddie30991 I disagree. The story reminds me of Raising Arizona. Their backstories and the nature of their romance might be a compelling story.
@@susanohnhaus611 lol that would truly be awful and hilarious in a really bad way 😁
Did anyone think it was going to turn out differently? So sad. Thanks for a great vid😉Dr.G
I feel for her mom.
Isn’t that the truth. Living in a small Alabama town and your daughter does this. I hope the town’s people are nice to mom.
@@jet4415 she's also like 80 ish yo, so I worry for her :(
I've been waiting for this!!!
I was literally watching news coverage of this and the new released 911 call when your video pop up. Looking forward to some excellent speculation Dr.
What few people mention even in mentioning lonliness is how difficult life mighe be for a single woman over 50. The smirks on the faces of newscasters could hardly be contained as they air quoted Vicky and Caseys special relationship. Even Grande has put her in a rocking chair living out her life content as a pensioner. So much of what Grande is saying is true, but what maybe she sought excitement not just because she was a rule follower, but because she was simply a good girl who had nothing but a pension at her age and she wanted more. Grande thought she got nothing, I suspect with a trunk full of guns she knew just how it was going to end and went for the ride anyway.
Man, when I first got the alert that they were missing I knew it was gonna be a crazy story. Tragic... they both put countless others in danger and Vicky threw her life away for nothing.
Appreciate you sharing your analysis. Unusual case.
Just goes to show that anyone is capable of anything.
You never truly know anyone. Even yourself.
Exactly.We are a ' flow of tendencies '. This looks to me like a systemic failure of the prison authorities as her employer to protect her from entering into an inappropriate relationship with an inmate - with mental health issues - and the lax procedures that had crept into the system ?
@@twiglet2214 The responsibility rests solely on her, not the prison system. She broke her oath of office, code of ethics, and she broke the law. That is her failure alone.
@@skyhawk_4526 Ok that sounds like a reasonable take on for me so we could just say " All her fault " and put the matter to bed but it's just that very rarely is any matter as simple as we would like it to be and there are usually multiple influences in situations like this - in an interview i watched with someone familiar with this corrective facility they said " It's chaos " also as a UK citizen the prison system here doesn't have mixed gender, i believe - weren't they in a long term ( 2 year relationship ) as i gather - that's asking for trouble surely ?
The classic "what goes around, comes around"
Always interesting.
Thank you.
Peace 💕🇺🇲
Thanks for the realistic look at this case. Too many people are looking for this moment of awakening where Vicky realized the error of her ways and it comes out like a soap opera. You hit on the head saying that she funded this experience and broke Casey out and was in on the chase at the end. It was probably some fantasy acted upon that turned out badly and sadly the Asst Sheriff got dragged down into Casey's pit.The reality is Vicky was not duped or fell under the spell of some wizard which many think happened. She acted on some fantasy and it was a fiasco.
I live in Evansville Indiana and we are so glad this is over. The chase was about 2 miles from my house.
I was waiting for your insight on this Doc. It really shows that some will throw away a life of stability overnight for what I call a cheap thrill. Maybe deep down inside she was always this person. That's also another way of looking at it. Always in control always the reliable person and took that life for granted. Maybe she wanted to see what that other side was like because some think the grass is better on the other side. The problem with that is they don't have the foresight to see all the dark pitfalls that that life holds and takes chances for the thrill of it. That's a slippery slope that I personally don't care to adventure on. Boring isn't always bad but some will never understand that truth.
Exceedingly insightful conceptualization of this case.
Thank you Dr. Grande.❤️
After reading a number of comments, I think Vicky’s goal all along was her own death. Vicky had already been caregiver for her recently deceased ex-husband, and now she was faced with a retirement consisting of being her mother’s caregiver. By the time of her mother’s death, how old would Vicky have been, had she not carried out this plan? I think Vicky’s life was empty and her future prospects more emptiness, despair, and grief. The objective of her plan was a brief oasis of pleasure in a sea of depression and death. I understand that Vicky and Casey had agreed to a shootout, which inevitably would have led to their deaths. In essence, a shootout was a suicide pact. Maybe in her last moments Vicky wanted to make it back to the hotel so they could have a defensible stand-off and their Death by Cop blaze of glory. Maybe she wanted to get out and run so they could be shot for refusing to comply. Anything to avoid more years of unpaid caregiving and loneliness. But with her glorious Death by Cop no longer possible in the wrecked car, Vicky took the last remaining suicidal option available in the moment: her own gun. She died after successfully beating the system to spring her boyfriend from prison, and after enjoying a week and a half of being his wife. For Vicky, it was worth it.
Agree, but then the 911 call is odd
Vicky died with a big smile. She became her own hero. It's so worth it to feel fully Alive for only 11 days!!
@@comonena We can’t know why the 911 call was made. If things had gone differently, it could have led to negotiations. But it does assure a recording of the final moments.
@@comonena people are saying the car automatically rang 911 when the vehicle was rammed. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like Vickie is talking to the responder.
@@comonena onstar in the caddy auto called when the police were attempting a pit maneuver on the vehicle.
I’ve had all the “excitement”I need for my lifetime. I’m very thankful just to be still here at all. A nice, drama free, quiet time sounds just the ticket. Silly, silly woman. I will never ever now, choose drama, thrills, danger over enjoyment of every day of calm wonder. No way sireeeee. Sounds dull to some, but I have bought the T shirt and now want the comfy chair.
We will never know the truth and with her years of dedication, devotion and loyalty to her job I somehow wonder if this was an accident and while she had the gun in her hand when the car flipped to the right he was driving he’s a big guy he fell on top of her and the gun accidentally went off but we will never know the whole thing does not make sense I hope they try him completely to the fullest extent of the law he’s a monster
I love Dr. Grande. He is so smart and logical.
Am I supposed to believe that two lovers with the same last name escape from a jail in Alabama... and they're not related?
White is her married name.
You're killing our comedy buzz here.
Strange things can happen anytime
@@CedarMountainsnow Way to roll with it.
Lmao
I've been waiting for this update and commentary from my favorite psychologist
She got into Corrections in her late 30’s. Retirement in law enforcement starts at 55. Wonder what she did before becoming a C/O. I don’t believe anyone will accuse her of being smart or clever. You don’t attract quality people at low pay & a GED.
was waiting for this update 💗💗 looking great today dr 😮💨😍
Can’t wait to hear your take! Always a good watch! Thank you from England 🏴
I agree
Me 2
I also agree🌹
that ending monologue analyzing Vicki’s potential inner thoughts and such was powerful, Dr. Grande. what an interesting case, never heard anything like it
Maybe Jung would have said she had a negative, destructive animus. And Casey embodied it, brought it to life. Escapes always carry archetypal connotations, which is likely one of the reasons they fascinate us.
Your interpretation makes interesting points, Todd.
She spent decades and her entire professional life in close proximity to criminal men, so she must have identified with them, apparently in crucial, unconscious ways. She finally saw a chance to rescue and liberate one. Really surprising, even shocking case. Maybe, as Todd said, she was thinking about it all along, or for some time. And maybe the impulse to do it sprang fully formed out of her unconscious.
As the sheriff down there said, we'll probably never know.
Great video Dr. Grande! This story is almost unbelievable. I think it would make a great lifetime movie someday.