Thanks to @damianized for providing these time stamps! 0:00 Intro 3:28 “Ends of Earth” 12:49 Biblical Earth rotation 18:22 signet-ring/seal translation to prove some FE argument with Job quote 29:10 “The earth is My footstool” 32:48 “Pillars of the earth” 37:12 “Cornerstone” 41:22 “Circle of the earth” 45:45 “Vault of heaven” 45:42 “Corners of the earth” 49:56 “Foundations of the earth” 52:56 "Waters under earth" 57:03 The earth is a "plateau"? 59:47 “Four corners of the earth” revisited 1:03:31 "End of the whole earth” 1:05:32 How did Jesus see "all the kingdoms" of the world from a mountain? 1:16:00 Ball or sphere diction 1:17:20 What about the sun stopping in Joshua? 1:19:16 What if the Bible did teach a flat earth? 1:22:51 What about scholars who think the Bible teaches a flat earth? 1:23:58 Firmament stuff 1:32:20 Stars falling from heaven + celestial body stuff
If the moon is millions miles away how can you see clouds behind the moon? Your thumbnail isn’t correct either just to point that out. That not how flat earth is. Go back and read Genesis again.
@@bensoumokil you can’t. Light reflected off the moon shines through thin clouds making them APPEAR to be behind the moon. Use proper light filters and exposure levels and you will see that the clouds are, in fact, in front of the moon.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 you can see the clouds behind the moon. Do you ever look at the moon with clouds behind it? Trust your eyes and not science.
@@bensoumokil “trust your eyes, not science”?! Tell that to a blind person. And who said anything about science. I said use a proper filter and adjust the exposure levels on your camera. Then it will become clear that the clouds ARE NOT BEHIND THE MOON. After all, if you’re going to rely on pictures taken with your camera, you MIGHT wanna use it properly. They’re just thin clouds with light shining through them so they APPEAR like they’re behind it. But they are NOT.
@A Lucky Man! brilliant! I’ve always wanted to know why the Bible tells me God will give me everything I ask for (John 16:23) and I have yet to become a rich, Hollywood, blockbuster filmmaker.
My main issue with this, regardless of whether I agree with flat earth or not, is that , it seems like people who come up with these ideas or new understandings , is that it becomes such a huge focus. Whether the earth is flat or not shouldn’t be the main issue...how does that help anyone come to Jesus? It seems to just distract from the preaching of the Gospel. All the “issues” and little things that are dividing Christians is sad to me. Thanks for this channel ....I really enjoy listening to your explanations on the various topics.
It's true that this can become too big of a focus, however, the same can be said about young earth creation. Young earth creation is an important topic because the integrity of God's word is at stake. Those of us who believe in geocentrism and/or flat earth view the topic in a similar manner. We believe it's important because of the integrity of God's word. And not only that, if the earth and heaven, sun, moon and stars are all that there is (as the bible presupposes), then that means that there's no possibility of evolution, big bang, etc. Big bang and evolution can only work in the heliocentric ever expanding universe model.
I still believe that satan will use any distraction to keep Christians from sharing the Gospel. I have said this many times--what does the shape of the earth have to do with eternity??? Have you ever heard of Dr Jason Lisle? He's an astrophysicist and a Christian. There's an interview he did with Justin Peters on RUclips. He gives scientific and mathematical facts regarding the flat earth theory. I have a suspicion that the flat earthers also believe that we didn't go to the moon or do any space exploration. Dr Lisle discusses this also. I hope you will see the interview. It's very eye opening! 😊👍🤗
@@kathierouse5306 Correct, we do deny the moon landings. The moon landings are an obvious hoax. It's more challenging to deal with the ball earth deception than the moon landings. Even people who believe in ball earth understand how fake the moon landings were. Regarding distractions, flat earth is no more a distraction than defending creation against evolution, as I stated previously. Those who argue against either/or are similar to those who say we shouldn't focus on "doctrine" and should focus on "Jesus". Well, you can't know who Jesus is if you have false doctrine about who he is. And you can't know God if you believe in myths about his creation because his creation displays his character.
I spent 8 years at sea while serving in the USN. How does a flat-earther reconcile that if we set a steady course with no turns and did not have to adjust for latitude and longitude, since the earth is flat, and went in a straight line, wouldn’t we have hit an edge eventually??
you can have latitude and longitude on a flat earth just like a globe. What do you mean, "straight line". if you fallow the equator, you'll just circumvent the flat disk.
Research operation hijump, operation fishbowl, operation deepfreeze. The US govt figured out the flat earth covered by a dome back in the 1930’s & 1940’s, Antarctica is the circular ice-wall edge. There are even old encyclopedia entries about the edge of the dome(firmament) in Antarctica.
@Betty Boop Douay-Rheims translation actually says specifically, GLOBE. Not circle. The original Hebrew word used in that passage even translates to SPHERE.
@Savin Bullets wrong when you consider that a circle only looks like a circle from 2 angles out of 360. All over angles it looks like an oval. Only one shape looks like a circle from any angle it’s viewed... and that’s a SPHERE. Which means even those other 50 can be argued to support the globe. Additionally, THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENCE BOOK. And all real science to test reality confirms that EARTH IS A GLOBE. Deal with it.
@Savin Bullets much like Nathan Roberts who did exactly the same thing by quoting a single passage out the Matthews Bible that says “flat earth.” A passage that, when read in context is just talking about A FIELD. At least the passage I quoted is actually talking about the earth itself. Not just one part of it. Earth is a globe. Deal with it.
I thought when you zoomed in on your cat you were going to go with the quote: "If the Earth were flat cats would have pushed everything off it by now."
Knowledge comes of as ignorance to those who choose to be ignorant. Just a bunch of ignorant, hypocritical believers who can't even see they contradict their own beliefs.
@@allnutturalrawthoughts7453There's nothing in the Bible that clearly states the shape of the earth, believing your eyes and all available evidence regarding its shape does not make you a hypocrite. Star trails, sunrises/sunsets, constellations & the fact that every other celestial body is a sphere prove that the earth is spherical.
That part in Job where it says, “and everything under the heavens” is what sets the verse apart. He isn’t just speaking about people, he is speaking about it all- all the way to the end. The others are speaking in relative terms.
If someone hasn’t tested the curvature how can they speak with certainty? I found fault in the Biblical rotation from the beginning of your commentary. The sun and moon don’t just rotate, they come close and push away from the North Pole which is what causes our seasons. It’s also not 93 million miles away or 1. It would illuminate all of space 2. would not display crepuscular rays (which means you can easily triangulate them) 3. Would not appear as a localized light source upon the water/earth. 4. Why are the sun and moon visible in the sky at the same time? Because their speeds are not the same so eventually the sun will pass the moon. 5. How can we travel through space spinning at 1,040mph, while spinning around the sun at 66,600mph, while everything else is also spinning.... and yet the stars align every-night. I know, I’ve watched for a year. I have many more thoughts that you and I can discuss. However, a flat, non-rotating earth makes sense if you read Joshua 10:13 from a literal sense. BTW how many hours does it take to fly east to west or west to east? The same hours and minutes both ways. Why can’t a helicopter liftoff and hover while waiting for its designated landing spot to arrive? Just some other “crazy” thoughts I’ve had. Where do you get the information from? NASA? The same one that had a Nazi SS guard as the head of the rocket dept.? The same agency full of Freemasons? Why have Obama and many others said we can’t leave low earth orbit? Why did astronaut Petite say we destroyed the technology that took us to the moon? How many times has Buzz Aldrin said he never went to the moon? People should think critically because deception is easy when the devil is at play. Ask yourself why is the ouroboros circling the NASA logo? Do you know what that signifies? What about the snake tongue that’s in the foreground? Operation Paperclip explains quite a bit. No conspiracy. Anyone can test the curve theory for themselves. Large body of water, preferably a lake, a high powered camera or a laser pointer are all that’s needed. I believe in God and I know the Bible has no fallacies so when a pastor says things they can’t confirm it should be addressed. Someone can not ridicule something they have not tested, if they do it would be foolish. And if this was tested prior to making this video the video would not be here. If someone has not physically tested the curvature then everything stated would be an opinion. I would be more than happy to show you the truth if you’re ever in south FL. God bless. Lastly, Mark 13:24 says the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. So does the moon give its own light or is it a reflection as “science” claims. It gives off its own glow. Nikon P900 full spectrum is great to prove/disprove many issues you’ve discussed.
Just another FLERF demonstrating they know NOTHING about life, reality especially things like physics, how light works or ANY concept of spatial orientation. The fact you think the moon and the sun are close, is what blows up your already absurd model that literally doesn't demonstrate ONE thing we can observe in reality with our own eyes. Light can't light up a vacuum. So, there is nothing in space to BE lit up. What was see in daytime on earth is the light reflecting off the molecules in our atmosphere. If we had no atmosphere, the surface would be lit up, but the sky would be black. You're crepuscular rays are easily debunked when you fly up to the clouds and see the lines are parallel, but just like rails on the train tracks, they appear to converge to a point, but obviously they don't. the sun, moon, stars all ARC across the sky, they don't circle overhead. And the angle of the arc is determined by what line of latitude you are at. ONLY at the north pole do the stars and planet circle overhead. On a flat disc, it would be daytime 100% of the time. Only on a globe can you get nighttime. And the idea that the sun is a spotlight is not only absurd, you can see with a Hydrogen alpha telescope it is a sphere that also rotates, But even if you wanted to make it super close so that it only DIRECLTY lights up a portion of the earth, you would still see it at night, just like we can see the stars at night, just like you can see a streetlight from far off, even though you aren't under its directed light beam.
Crepuscular rays, the tower of Babel, double rainbows reflecting off the firmament. Real Christians are too afraid to humble themselves to the point they can see the lie. It's the devil's revenge against God confusing the language. Satan has done the same thing to us.
You are exactly correct. My real issue with this guy is when he answered a viewer who asked him if the Holy Bible stated “the earth is flat” would he believe it? And he answered he does not know, he would have to think about it”. I commented above to him that apparently he is stating either (1) that God would lie (2) that the Bible is not the infallible Word of God, Either way, he is not someone I will watch or listen to again, as I have serious questions about this guy’s motives for teaching his version of the Word of God.
Interesting topic but not worth getting in a heated debate over. It's not like our salvation is dependent upon whether we believe the earth is flat or a sphere.
No, but some of these FLERFS actually believe that. Nathan Roberts, who wrote a book about this crap, believes that if you don’t think the earth is flat, you’re going to hell.
It’s not something to be ignored. Believing untruth always has consequences. The consequence of flat earthers claiming that they get this from the Bible has the effect of giving the nonbelievimg world grounds for thinking Christians are stupid, crazy, and anti-science. How many unbelievers are confirmed in their unwillingness to consider the Bible and the Christian faith and justify because of stuff like this is not a small consequence. Truth matters.
@@jessethomas3979 By that logic, when the Bible states that the sun, moon, and stars were created within the firmament, we don't have to believe that because it wasn't a cosmology course. Keep listening to the atheistic, big-bang, evolutionistic scientists who tell you that the sun, moon, and stars are outside the firmament.
God isn't a liar. But just as Mike points out, it is about perspective. There are no bars or doors holding the waters back on the beaches and coastlines nor do thoughts come from your physical heart...he speaks truths so we may comprehend them. Look at Jesus, God in flesh spoke in parables. Do you believe the kingdom of heaven looks exactly like a mustard seed that becomes a tree? Or do you believe heaven and hell are 100% accurately described in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Or possibly, God wrote things in a way that we could understand them.
@@nicholaschrist1086 The parables were spoken to the Jews by Jesus so that they wouldn't understand them. (Mat 13 13) If you understand the parables at all, they were prophecies regarding Israel. Lazarus and the rich man has nothing to do with heaven or hell. It's a reversal of those near and those far.....Jew and Gentile. The kingdom of God is, in fact, just as Jesus taught. It isn't a mustard seed that grows into a great tree but it is "like" that. It isn't a dragnet that gathers all manner of fish but it is "like" that. It isn't a wedding in which the original guests refuse to come but it is "like" that. Do you believe the "kingdom" of God is Israel ruling the Earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years? I hope not because that's not what Jesus nor Paul taught. I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying that God wrote untruths so we could understand truths? Your point seems to be that you also see how the Word states clearly that the lights of the firmament were placed by God INSIDE the firmament but in actuality, we know that they were placed outside the firmament as the atheists and evolutionists tell us. In your logic, God did this because we couldn't understand the concept of the lights being outside the firmament. If we get that information from evolutionists and atheists....then we can understand it but God has to write the opposite so we can understand it from our perspective. Do I have that right?
Jewish idioms mess the flat earth believers up, humans communicate through idioms, but no idioms are used worldwide, go to Africa and say things like: •it’s raining cats and dogs •you’re pulling my leg •hold your horses •this is taking forever The people in Africa will not know what you are talking about, because they have different idioms The scriptures that flat earth believers point to are all idiom verses… One thought… “the pillars of heaven tremble” could be righteous people, as in the “pillars of our community” tremble
1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV) O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
So when God called out to Adam and said "Adam, where are you?", you think that literally meant God didn't know where Adam was? You are a smart one aren't you? (Don't take that literally)
Yes, but it varies by context, as he pointed out the verses that clearly meant Babylon, was the ends of the earth. But regardless, his point is that as weak as the ends of the earth argument means, as there are no ends on a globe or disc, it would be edges for a disc., the point remains, it's CLEARLY not literal. Therre are SO many Bible verses that clearly aren't literal and not even the most ardent FLERF would argue they ARE literal, but when it comes to their asinine theory, suddenly ALL of "their" verses MUST be taken literally. Yet even in our modern age, we talk about sunrise and sunset, we don't mean those LITERALLY, it's just a figurative way of saying what we observer. IMAGINE trying to LITERALLY describe a sunset or sunrise in everyday conversation. It would be unbelievably cumbersome and absurd. "This morning, I got up and watched the effect of the earth's rotation, so that the sun came back into view towards the east."
@@waristerrorism651 why try to understand it in human terms.. does God who created all out of nothing need to hold the earth up with something of a physical means ? what about all the other planets and sun ..God has the means to hold each up in its orbit perfectly..
Every time I watch one of Mike's videos, it reminds me of how much I need to practice my humility, patience and understanding with others, especially on the internet. People are so quick to say many things they would never say to a stranger in real life, and I am very guilty of that. Mike, I just wanted to say thank you for being such a great example of what a Christian should act like. I really appreciate all of your hard work and effort that you put into all of your videos. I'm currently on the 6th video in your "Jesus in the Old Testament" Bible study playlist, and it has literally blown my mind and really expanded my knowledge and understanding of the Old Testament. I pray God continues to bless you as you are constantly blessing others with your online Bible content. I love you brother!
Good for you for humbling yourself, remember Jesus, how patient he was! Even when he was being killed he told God to forgive those who Pierced him. Even in death he was not driven to anger! Remember brother, this does not mean dont confront false teachings, no one can guide you on what to say except the Holy Spirit, when the time comes God will give you the words. And if you cannot hear God's voice telling you what to do and say, ask for the Holy Spirit so he can guide you on what to do. God bless you
@RCSNIPER34 My sentiments exactly! Mike and Ray Comfort are my examples of rising above controversy and not letting distractions stop your gospel presentation. Revelation says God will judge people out of the books he'll open. It occurs to me that if God simply opened facebook that one would be enough to judge most of us! (Sorry Pastor Mike for abusing the context)😂
Anyway impediment not withstanding 4dendrites a tendril a synapses,4armedforces law enforcement government agents, 4cranial plates a brain stem a Brain, 4palm bones a thumb a left hand/spike in church or court,4foot bones a big toe a left kick off stage, 4major/minor prepuce a clit007, 4molarroots a grind surface a nerve, 5/6senses digits appendages like black cherry and blue flesh X-ray purple/monarchy feels good sunburn
Proverbs 8:27-29 “When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,”
A flat earther in my office tried to say there are no direct flights between Australia and South Africa. I showed him the sites on the web where one can order and pay for tickets from Sydney to Cape Town on the southern tip of Africa. The flight times were consistent with the distance. He was flabbergasted, and then did the shuck and jive claim that those ticket sales are fake, that nobody ever boards such flights. He also said that nobody is allowed to walk onto the Antarctic because a global military force is there to keep people off that shelf so that they never discover where the canopy meets the ice on the outer edge. He also could never seem to explain how people down at the southern tip of Africa don't end up standing at about a 60 degree angle to the ground under their feet with the largest mass of the earth to their north. He had to claim that gravity is not something science understands, nor can explain...that it is not a property of mass, but rather a supernatural force God enacts according to His own will in the way it works right now. (rolling eyes to the heavens) The array of convenience excuses they apply to try and uphold the flat earth scenario in the face of gross inconsistencies and irrefutable evidences to the contrary, well, I prefer to give glory to the Lord who did in fact create countless numbers of galaxies and stars, haiving named each one. That speaks to a power beyond our ability to begin to try and comprehend. The magnitude of such power speaks well to what the Lord inspired to be written where it says that nature itself declares His majesty and Person.
@@billiehanson3686 I can buy a ticket today, just as you can. All you have to do is use the same internet you're accessing right now for the airlines that sell such tickets.
@@billiehanson3686 So, you won't even go and look with your internet access to see the navigation course for the tickets you can guy? That only shows that you're afraid of the truth.
There's a definite psychological conditioning effect at work here. In the case of the Christian/Bible-believing Flat Earthers, their thinking is controlled at the root by the belief that the Bible itself teaches a Flat Earth. Without Bible-savvy Christians around to address the '200 verses that teach a Flat Earth' for them, and with little or no exegetical/hermeneutical training in the Bible themselves, people cultishly fall prey to the claim that the Bible does teach a Flat Earth-when it really doesn't. Once that premise is set in their minds, then all the rest follows: 1. Any science that teaches otherwise-that the Earth is a rotating spheroid-must be wrong. Many Christian Flat Earthers have a Young Earth Creationist background, which also proceeds following the same path: I understand the Bible to say X, but science says Y, so all of the relevant science must be wrong (rather than: 'Oh, there's a discrepancy here so I'd better re-check both the science and my exegesis to see if a mistake has been made in either.'). And it's only a short step from opposing Darwinism out of loyalty to the Bible to opposing PHYSICAL SCIENCE as well because you think that too is opposed to the Bible-when it's actually not. The phrase "atheistic science" is one that the Young Earth creationists employ too. What this amounts to most fundamentally is this: Many Christians are prone to misreading the Bible and are not able to TELL that they or someone they look up to and has taught them has done so. They then defend their misreading vociferously (which jibes with "…have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge). 2. For so MUCH of science to be so wrong must mean that there's been a Grand Conspiracy to push the rotating spheroid model instead. 3. Such a Grand Conspiracy of science would require MANY PEOPLE and MUCH INFLUENCE to pull it off, so now we're into the area of conspiracy to control the world-with which, as a Bible student of End Times prophecy and of the New World Order, I have quite a lot of sympathy, actually-and so then you are mixing in bonafide conspiracy with a fake Grand Conspiracy of science and the bonafide conspiracy lends credence to the Flat Earth position, seemingly, because Christians in general who also know their Bibles and what the Bible says about the End Times can see the world going to pieces and moving toward the New World Order every day now in the propaganda media headlines, 'news' stories, and memes. As I see it, the mistake the Christian Flat Earthers make is in not investigating each claim of conspiracy separately on its own merits and evidence. Some conspiracies are fake, but others are genuine. The Bible even tells us Jesus was plotted against and executed due to conspiracy. The Flat Earthers seem to buy into conspiracies wholesale, as a package deal, rather too easily. And it doesn't help that fellow Christians don't always see the deterioration of the world situation, probably leading up to the End Times fairly soon, very clearly. 4. This Grand Conspiracy of science then needs a locus of villainy, like KAOS with Maxwell Smart, which in their case has turned out to be NASA. 5. Once Flat Earth is thought to be biblical, and all relevant science claiming a rotating spheroid Earth contradicts it, then of course every space photo by NASA (or by any other nation's space agency) HAS to be a CGI fake if the Bible is true. 6. In fact, at that point even any firsthand evidence from other source ALSO has to be fake, and so ANY photograph of the horizon that shows curvature at any altitude ALWAYS has to be due to either a 'fisheye' lens effect or to photographic tampering of some kind. FE claims against such photographic evidence are comprehensive, but their equally comprehensive LACK of photographic evidence of, say, the ice wall (because it is alleged no one is ever allowed to travel to Antarctica to check for one there) or of the solid dome firmament is systematically ignored by them. 7. For various reasons, including the obvious observation through one's own backyard telescope that other planets are BOTH spheroidal in shape AND rotating bodies, then all photographs taken by backyard telescopes of other planets also ALL have to be fakes. And once they're fakes, then there's no hydrostatic equilibrium creating such planets due to gravity, and then there's no 'need' for gravity at all either. And on and on and on it all goes. But it begins with a laudable sense of loyalty to God and to His Word, that's unfortunately misapplied because they are MISREADING and MISINTERPRETING that Word-wholesale-on this particular issue.
ArielView I understood you. Elohim used throughout many translations for a handful of things. A lot of ppl think it’s usually referring to God, but that’s not true. It can also mean an angel or any powerful spiritual force. ☺️
perpetual eye it might be plain now, but there was nothing plain about it in the original text. During translation It was used in place of a handful of Hebrew words. Same as Lord & Elohim.Please receive this comment with love. I wasn’t trying to correct you... simply build of your point. God bless you!!
Correct. Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle[H2329] of the earth" There are two words in hebrew for a circle, and one of them means a spherical ball. Here's the two words according to the strongs' concordance. H1754 Dure: a circle or ball. H2329 khoog: a circle, circuit, compass Isaiah 40:22 uses form H2329 khoog, which means a circle, circuit, compass. The fact is that the ancient Hebrews DID have a word, "Dure", to describe a spherical ball shape of the earth during the time the Bible was recorded, but that was NOT the word used to describe the earth. Khoog was the word used.
@@moogle_kthank you. Finally somebody else who actually did a 10 second search. The word for "ball/sphere" is different than the word for "circle". Here is another verse from Isaiah that uses the word "ball". Isaiah 22:18 18 He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there the chariots you were so proud of will become a disgrace to your master’s house. This is a different word than the one used in Isaiah 40:22 which says, 22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. People are really desperate to defend the lies of modern cosmology, but it just can't be done. Here is another one. Job 38:14 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. And my final question, if Genesis 1 says the earth was created on day 1, and the sun, moon, and stars were created on day 4, what was the earth orbiting around on day 1, 2, and 3?
For those of us that believe that the ORDER of creation in Genesis (plants created before the sun, birds created before land animals; sun, moon, and stars created after the Earth) is true, it makes it impossible for us to accept the current stances of many scientific disciplines such as anthropology, cosmology, etc. because they go against the order of creation. Once certain scientific world views are off the table, and you go back to the Bible, certain other accounts both Biblical and modern you start asking other valid questions, “How will everyone see Jesus at His second coming if the world is a globe?” “How is it that we left Earth to land on the moon and Mars, if the sun, moon, and stars are placed within the firmament/vault/expanse?” These questions aren’t forming from crazy conspiracy theories, they’re forming from believing the Bible to be true, and a desire to know the truth.
Rob skiba has some of if not the best biblical flat earth information and is completely in context, the bible support flat earth 100%. Go check out his flat earth debate. Really good one.
Woketown did a video saying it could be like if you divide a pie into 4 pieces you get 4 corners in the middle. That would also explain how " I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth". But yeah, could also be figurative for directions.
If there are 4 physical corners and they are outside the raqia (strongs 7549) then we will never really know. In a case like this... Matt 18:3 and Rom 3:4 is good enough for me.
THAT'S his point. But Flerfs DEMAND we take EVERYTHING in the Bible literally or we are accusing God of being a liar. Of course, they seem strangely silent when Jesus DEMANDS we drink His blood and eat His flesh or we are going straight to hell.
The 4 corners verses are not the issue. The Bible clearly teaches the earth does not move and is covered by a firmament, the sun moon and stars are in the firmament.
Pastor Mike agreed to make the question of whether the earth is flat or spherical a separate video, yet he says at 12:23, “…reading cosmology unto a text (in this case Mark 13:27), that’s just about like local geography”. I agree, but he immediately proceeds to debunk the flat earth model using this same text as his basis for claiming “on their view the sun doesn’t actually go to the edge of the earth because the ends of the earth are those edges… but the biblical teaching is that the sun seems to, at least from our perspective, go around us.” The key word here is ‘perspective’, so my advice to Pastor Mike is to stay true to his word letting the Bible speak for itself. Then, at 18:07, when presenting the definition of ‘earth’ from the DBL, Pastor Mike says, “Maybe you can read that, I don’t know, most of you probably can’t read that (laughing)”. So, I’m not even twenty minutes into this video and he has already lied to me and now berates me. Am I being too sensitive, or am I just expecting more from a Christian who devotes night and day to understanding the Bible? Nonetheless, I endured listening to this smug pastor to the end finding this video very useful in disassociating the Bible from any cosmology. My advice, instead of pitying those who believe the earth is flat, perhaps investigate for yourselves the 'science' behind modern cosmology. What you are apt to find may astound you. Peace.
I agree, Mike always acts like such a 'know-it-all' and seems to look down at people who don't think like he does. I don't understand why he has so many followers
@CharlieGoy, you are right. This so-called pastor is smug who believes NASA (stems from the Hebrew "nasha" meaning "lies") over our Lord. I can't i there are "Christians" who are still deceived by the Old Serpent. Keep living in ignorance and stupidity, Pastor Mike
@CharlieGoy, you are right. This so-called pastor is smug who believes NASA (stems from the Hebrew "nasha" meaning "lies") over our Lord. I can't believe there are "Christians" who are still deceived by the Old Serpent. Keep living in ignorance and stupidity, Pastor Mike.
The science of cosmology is solid, based on measurements and calculations and evidence. I agree we should all question what we are taught, but the science in this case is abundantly clear. The problem isn't pitying Christian flat-earthers, but regretting the damage they are doing to the reputation of our faith. If unbelievers understand science and know the earth is round, Christians who teach others it's flat will reject Christianity as also a lie. They will think that if Christians are teaching something that can overwhelmingly be proven false (flat earth), the rest of our beliefs must also be false. They are doing more damage than good ("anyone who does not help Me gather is really scattering”). They are not gathering souls but pushing them away by attaching a lie to our faith.
Major problem with flat earth christians and biblically proving their faith is this (and you can see it when you scroll the comments and look) : These "flat earth verses" are thrown as an argument over and over again. Usually many verses at the time, and usually not being willing to discuss about interpretation. Shouldn´t christians be willing to discuss about the Bible and our faith? Not just throw random bible verses, and arrogantly say "well you haven´t been doing your own research? This are my claims: The Bible is not "flat earth book", Only very few verses can be interpreted to mean flat earth. All other verses claimed to be flat earth proofs, are not even talking about shape of the earth. Flat earth believers does not want to test their claims, does not want to discuss with manners about Biblical base of flat earth. (except by throwing verses) Never discussin about those verses one by one.
Not willing to let scripture interpret scripture or to have 2-3 witnesses for a matter to be established. Jesus had lots to say about the doctrines of man ( interpretation), because often doctrines of man nullify the very word of God ( Mark 7)
I ask you to be honest to yourself amd answer this. To yourselfnif you don't want ro amswer it here: QUESTION-> What keeps you from answering to this: " what is your best proof of earth being flat, or testable, repeatable proof of flat earth that you really trust, name ONE"? To me it looks like there is ZERO evidence that you would trust enough, to be willing to expose it to testing.
GENSIS 1;6 Then God said, “Let there be [e]an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the [f]expanse, and separated the waters which were below the [g]expanse from the waters which were above the [h]expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the [i]expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 16 God made the two [w]great lights, the greater [x]light [y]to govern the day, and the lesser [z]light [aa]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [ab]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [ac]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so
FLAT EARTH BLACK SWAN - For a different perspective on what the "firmament" is and the waters separated from the waters, have a look into "hydroplate theory." It does answer a LOT of questions regarding the firmament, the flood and plate tectonics. Bless you.
@Innocent Bystander Yes, because we all know that nobody has secrets (conspiracy), even the bible talks about conspiracies. You have to be less than 10 years old to think conspiracies don't exist. By the way a theory is something which is not a fact like Evolution, flat earth is a fact not a theory. Hope I didn't bruise your brain.
Innocent Bystander You think it couldn’t possibly be level/flat & yet you feel comfortable believing that people & structures exist upside down at the southern portions of a globe, while only those at the North Pole get to live in an upright world??
If it's literal and not poetic/out of context or whatever else have you, then it could easily mean that it won't go off course of its orbit, or be wiped out. One needn't worry about those doomsday reports because "the earth shall not be moved." Earth will go on until the end described in scripture
The majority of people yelling flat earth don't actually read their bibles and instead rely on other non-Bible reading youtubers for information. Good points nonetheless.
@@Mavors1099 no it doesn't. There is instead poetic language or vague descriptions when there are passages about the four corners. There are some passages that are literal while others are not. There are also passages where the round shape of the earth is mentioned. You just have to separate literal from figurative.
@@mryoyo1234Yes, poetic language that describes a flat earth. "There are also passages where the round shape of the earth is mentioned", yes , round like a coin, which is the shape of the earth according to the OT
The question "if the bible said the earth was flat, would you believe it?" is a nasty one, because it supposes that the bible would be different, but God's creation would be the same. You could apply this strategy with any lie. For example: "If the bible said Satan is the messiah, would you believe it?". The bible, as God has given it to us, is the truth. You cannot editorialize it with your own (probably false!) ideas and still use its authority as the word of God. It is a subtle form of blasphemy.
I've often thought of that kind of stuff. It's easy to believe in a righteous God Who loves us, but, what if He demanded I do something repulsive? It takes some deep thought to get around that concept.
@A Lucky Man! Right. I happen to agree, but try explaining that to someone who doesn't get it. They will certainly think that we live in a fantasy land.
If it said that then it would not be true... the reason the bible is taken as what it is, is because we can test it. We can literally test these natural claims. We don't believe the bible is true because the bible says it's true...
And yet further reading shows that Earth can be “shaken from its place.” So which is it? Literal Bible is a contradiction. Allegorical Bible is more accurate. Bible is not a science book and earth is not flat.
Since most people can't read biblical Hebrew and Greek there are translation issues involved fairly often too, as well as reading comprehension problems, that are not the fault of the Bible author's text. These issues complicate the task of trying to understand what the Bible author is intending to communicate. For example, the Hebrew word 'eretz' which is typically translated as "earth" (not capitalized) typically means 'land' or 'territory' or 'country' and/or the people thereof; all the land and/or people everywhere; or 'soil' or 'dirt' or 'ground,' but it DOESN'T mean 'planet' as does the different English usage "Earth" (capitalized, because it's the proper name used to designate our planet). So "earth" ≠ "Earth," but when readers of the English Old Testament see "earth" they sometimes mentally interpolate the meaning "Earth" instead, creating a planetary (shape, disposition in space) conception that the Bible author never intended. In ancient times a planet was routinely called a "wandering star" because it was always something you saw up in the sky; it was not the ground beneath your feet. In ancient times PLANETS were seen 'up there' but "earth" was the ground 'down there' beneath your feet. However, in modern times, people think of "Earth" in its planetary conception instead, and their mental picture of what the writer is talking about shifts from ground level to at least Earth-orbital distance, and to a conception of our planet in space as one planet among the others in the Solar System. It's that change in people's mental frame of reference which leads them to misunderstand what the Bible writers are talking about when they use the word 'eretz.' Once that problem has been addressed, then we're facing a slightly different problem: How can the LAND not be moved? Indeed, the Bible itself records several earthquake events and Jesus predicts earthquakes during the End Times as well. Farmers in biblical times plowed up the dirt and so in that sense the "earth" also clearly moves. Here are two possible reconciliations of this problem of the Bible seeming to contradict itself with respect to the land moving vs. not moving: 1. The physical LAND ("earth) is SUBSTANTIALLY immovable most of the time, and provides a reliably solid foundation for buildings, etc. However, earthquakes are an exception which the Bible also acknowledges. This is, in fact, the way I understand what is being said in 1 Chron. 16:30; in that passage, King David is apparently urging thousands of his countrymen to- Dance [i.e., frenetically] before Him, all the land; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved. -in a tongue-in-cheek way. I take the sense of his remark to be along these lines: 'Go ahead, everyone! Dance before God together! It will be safe to do so because the world is firmly established and you won't initiate an earthquake if you do!' 2. At least some of the 'immovable land' passages may not be talking about PHYSICAL immobility but about the political/demographic immobility of a COUNTRY (e.g., the LAND or COUNTRY of ISRAEL will not be 'moved' from its place because God has established the Jewish people in it).
@@ChipsAplentyBand thank you for the lesson but you missed the point! God it stable, its STABLE!. Now re- read Genesis 1, slowly; water above and water below. Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken." 1 Chronicles 16:30: Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 There are many allegorical examples in the bible but there are also historical fact in it as well. It's wonderfully written and doesn't contradict itself, only the incorrect interpretation contradicts the word.
With regards to Isaiah 40:22, circle is translated as " חוּג " which Strongs H2329 defines as a circle, circuit (think race track) or compass (like you navigate with). How does one get to a "sphere" knowing those aspects of the definition of "circle"?
Romans 1:25 ESV [25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. It takes a lot of pride swallowing to allow yourself to be a flat earther. Luckily I don't think it's a salvation issue. It's the devil's tower of Babel. He confused the language of the Bible with a lie about the globe. Christians are taught to think that the Bible is basically wrong because there is actually no up and down and God isn't literally above us. Funnily enough, the tower of Babel is probably the Bibles strongest evidence of the truth of our world. If they were just going to build a tower to outer space, why didn't God let them?
A sphere is a type of circle like a square is a type of a rectangle. Or like a cube is a type of square; when you look at it from one side it looks like a square. And he explains the old Hebrew didn’t have a word specific for a sphere/3D circle. A 3D circle was just called circle. To get a little more trippy: A Tesseract is a fourth dimensional square, which if someone saw a representation of that, they might describe as a square or a cube. Anyway I don’t want to put so much focus on the shape of one of God’s creations; it’s much better to focus on the person of Jesus and to learn more about his heart. What is the shape of his heart. ♥️🫀❤️🔥💒🌏 And the Bible says the spirit can help us know the mind of God! He has much more important things on his mind! So much more to explore. Although we should all ask him directly for wisdom on the shape of the world and be willing to accept whatever he would want to show us. And knowing his heart is what will fill us with love, power and peace.
@@kellydecamp3656 NASA controls the church. In Isaiah 22:18, he uses the word “dur” for ball in that verse. This means he knows the difference between a ball and a circle. Isaiah wasn’t a dummy. He was inspired and literate. Don’t makes excuses for Babylon, be not conformed to this world.
This big bang -> balls flying through space -> evolution is a massively powerful delusion. I find it amazing that we Christians wouldn't be caught dead believing in big bang and evolution. Buuuuut give us MORE balls spinning and flying through outer space! More... More... More!!! The WORD said *days*.. and the WORD said *formless*.... mankind knows exactly what those mean. It's only the "educated mind" that knows better.
@@wydopnthrtl How many times do I have to say this? A GLOBE EARTH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A BIG BANG OR EVOLUTION. and you can't prove that it does, so stop saying it, troll.
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy I put them together because... that is the official narrative. No? Here in troll-ville where I went to school I was taught BB -> higgs bosen -> gravity -> molten ball -> surface cooled -> evolution -> people -> belief in a "god" to comfort themselves. Ok so.. you don't believe in BB or evolution. That's an excellent thing and I stand with you on those two. So... neither one of us was there in the beginning and we don't have (human) eye witness testimony. Why is it you believe you exist on a ball that is spinning, and spinning around a sun?
@@wydopnthrtl The whole POINT of this video is to PROVE that that isn't even what the Bible is saying. LISTEN to what Mike says. Those verses are NOT calling the Earth flat in the first place! You are biased and leading millions of young people astray by feeding them easily falsifiable lies! People will leave the faith because the cosmology you preach is forced onto them as essential, and when they find out it isn't true, they will conclude that none of the Bible is true!
So are we supposed to take "fishers of men" literally? Do we have to literally carry a cross everywhere to follow Jesus? Literally don't throw pearls to pigs? There is obvious poetry in the Bible to illustrate and to teach and this flat earth stuff is just nonsense
So should nothing in the Bible be taken literally? To not take some of scripture literal is almost like denying the supernatural. If the Bible states the sun stood still, which it does, I believe it literally means the sun stood still.
@@lilyatangcho creating the ridiculous binary of either everything in the Bible is absolutely literal or none of it is, is an absolutely untenable premise. Should I be going out into the street and throwing nets over people?
For the question about Michael Heiser beleiving in a flat earth, I watched a video of his where he had a diagram made to show what it might look like if we were to actually take each passage as literal as possible. But he was playing both sides. He didn’t say it was one way or the other. He was interpreting it from more than just one angle
Michael Heiser was adamantly against FE, but he was honest about what the ancient Hebrews believed, flat, enclosed, stable cosmology. Jason Lisle on the other hand is intellectually dishonest and plays fast and loose with the Bible, claiming it said all along we were on a globe.
He does state his view in his book, “The Bible Unfiltered”, where he laments the hyper-literal readings that lead some to believe it teaches a flat earth. He was vey much on the side of the modern view of the solar system. He did, however, believe that the predominant view in the ancient near east, including the Hebrews, assumed a flat earth with a dome, and that it came out in some of the poetic symbolism. But, like Mike Winger, he didn’t believe these passages were meant in any way to endorse that view of the world.
@@clintbeacock7663 John Walton for example, always reminds us to look for historical context when reading these passages. The Bible message comes through even though we are witnessing it through the author/author's understanding of the world, i don't know why is it so hard for flat earthers to concede this.
Nothing wrong with Michael Heizer showing the possible interpretations. The amplified Bible does it. Science needs to be more honest about the limitations and the fakery of their evidence for the globe. Just as we don’t have hard and fast answers About how to interpret everything in scripture, we don’t have hard and fast proof of either globe or flat from what I can see and I have looked at so many more facets than the average bear.
The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31] The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32] Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47). Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.
I always took "corners" to mean directions. In Revelations, it says "four winds" in the same "corners" verse. We usually think of the four winds as coming from the compass directions.
Funny how when the scripture says things that people refuse to wrap there head around and say it means something else but when it easy on your mind they will say it means exactly what it says . Quit manipulating scripture because you don’t want to accept it .
Mike, it troubled me when you said even if the Bible said the Earth is flat you wouldn't believe it. Even Globe earthers should be worried. Would you believe in Flat Earth if Jesus taught it?
I've watched a lot of Mike's videos and it seemed off that he would make this comment. It's disturbing to hear that and I hope it was just misguided comment and not what he truly believes.
The earth is round, though... I believe in the Bible because I think it leads me to truth. If I had incontrovertible evidence that it was flat-out wrong (lol) on such a basic thing, I'd reconsider my search for truth. If you're willing to believe something that is evidently false then you can't honestly say you care about the truth.
Don’t get hung up on the term flat earth, it’s true the Bible doesn’t mention flat earth but the Bible does say the earth does not move. The Sun, moon and stars were created after the earth and were placed in the firmament. The firmament is a solid structure holding back water. Yahuahs throne is above the firmament. The Sun and moon stopped in the sky for a day. The Sun moved backwards for Hezekiah. All the stars will fall to earth in the end times. The Bible says all these things, it is not out of context, it is clear and in context. Believe the Word or don’t believe, but don’t pretend it’s all allegory.
Mike leaves out most of the verses that show the earth is motionless and fixed on pillars with a solid firmament above. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat but it does say it doesn’t move, it says the sun moon and stars are in the firmament. It says the firmament is solid and holds back water. It says the sun moon and stars move in a circuit over the still earth. Earth may be flat on top and round underneath us, who knows?? But the Bible clearly says the earth is the center of creation, and this is it, no space, no other planets.
@@wardrobegirl67 "Mike leaves out most of the verses" Which ones? "but it does say it doesn’t move" where? "It says the firmament is solid and holds back water" No, it does not "It says the sun moon and stars move in a circuit over the still earth" Yes, from our perspective. This also means that the sun really sets below the horizon, which most FE models deny. "the earth is the center of creation" Yes, from our perspective. "and this is it, no space, no other planets." This is false. The bible does not say that. Thanks for sharing!
Great video. BUT to the other commenters: None of this matters if the earth is flat, round or a pear. Jesus Christ paid for all of your sins on the cross, if you believe in him you shall have eternal life. Nothing you have done can outweigh his payment for your sins. Be humble and submit to Christ in all you do, argument can be loving and gentle as Mike has displayed. We must always keep our own pride in check. The sinful voice in us all screaming "I'm right!!!"
Why would you even try to discuss this with people who can’t even understand what a figure of speech is? They will just go on believing against all logic.
except...when you can see the moon and the sun in the sky at the same time right? How is the earth casting a shadow on the moon when the sun and moon are both visible in our sky many times throughout the year? I'm not a full fledged 'flat earther' but I do believe there are 'facts' we've inherited from that need to be questioned more thoroughly. There are other points that would refute a globe-model earth as well (lasers visible from many miles away that should be hidden behind the curve of the earth, why don't lakes experience the same tidal patterns as oceans, and many more).
@@hoopsonfire17 No there isn't. He's mistaken. The phases of the moon are caused by it's location in it's orbit of earth and the side of the moon that isn't facing the sun. It's EASY" to see clearly on a drawing. the phases of the moon absolutely blow away the FE model. According to your model, the phases would change throughout the day and night and depending on where you are on the earth, you would see the moon in a completely different phase from someone else in a different location. Also the only way you could have a full moon is when the moon is opposite the sun and on the other side of the disc which would only occur in daytime, when the sun is on our side of the earth and the moon on the dark side of the disc. I know what you're thinking, well what about when the moon is overhead, and the sun is on the far side of the disc. Well, then those in the northern part, or center of the disc, would only see a gibbous moon, while those more underneath the moon would see a half-moon, and those towards the outside of the disk would see a crescent moon. This is all because you want the sun and moon to be close to the earth, within the dome. Just another example of trying to solve one problem with your model, only to create several more.
This issue with Dean Odle teaching a flat earth from a biblical perspective... "Pastor" Dean Odle received his ordination from a Nigerian seminary, however, the Nigerian government has shut down this seminary as an illegal diploma mill. I question his qualifications as a pastor and, just like these shady doctors who get their doctorates from Caribbean medical schools, I wouldn't trust either one.
@@dylangoldman2310 Do you want random people teaching false doctrine without some form of training on how to interpret it exegete Scripture? Most people want sound doctrine, not Jim Jones.
@@OGKenG plenty of ordained ministers teach false doctrine. There are many interpretations of scripture. I guarantee I don't agree on everything theological as you do. It's up to people to use their brains. A school or institution are not the authority on the correct interpretations of scripture. This is literally why Jesus chose unschooled men to be his apostles. Because the institutions are power hungry and wack as hell.
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
As a classical artist, I can confirm that your buddy is handcrafting those mugs and I LOVE it. He clearly has his own kiln-or personal access to one, and he's hand glazing those mugs with underglaze and outer glaze. They aren't shipped in from China, those must be hand made labors of love. Thank you for your solid teaching!
You didn't address the "4 corners of the earth" flat earthers use in their bible confirmation. For me, it merely means N,S,E,W...not literal 4 corners on a flat surface.
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy Thank you! I watched the entire video so I don't know how I missed that part!! Maybe I had a distraction come in and I didn't hear that. Thank you so much for giving me the time stamp!!
@@BeccainHawaii in biblical cosmology God‘s spirit moved upon the face of the deep, or the waters, and, according to Job, the face of the deep is frozen. The second heaven, or firmament, divides the water from the waters, so there is water below and water above, but as far as the make up of what we would call the universe, we do not know.
@@RB-sz9gv 👍 , Isaiah 34:4 KJV - And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Hey Mike much of what you are doing in this video is interjecting your own 21st century scientific understanding into the text. Not sure if you brought this up or not, but Dr. Michael Heiser who is a genius on this stuff (multiple PHD'S in Ancient Near Eastern stuff), who is not a flat earth believer at all, would very easily refute much of what you are saying based on the fact that you cannot talk about biblical cosmology without taking into account that the OT was written in an ANE context! The biblical worldview as well as EVERY OTHER major civilization believed the earth was flat. This is undeniable. This is the persecutive the Biblical writers wrote from. They had no concept of a globed earth at all. Nobody did during that time.
I think your history is a bit skewed. You do know that many geocentrists also believed in a spherical Earth? Also, what does ANE stand for? Us dummies aren't as smart as you.
liberty research ANE stands for Ancient Near East. If you look at all of the major civilizations that existed during the time of the biblical text and that existed before the time the biblical text was written (ancient Sumeria for example) the common cosmological worldview was that the earth was flat. Any basic research will show you this. My whole point to Mike was that this was the worldview of the biblical writers. Therefore, to interpret portions of Scripture from a modern scientific perspective is putting something into the mind of the original author that wasn't there. It wasn't there because they had no clue of the scientific understanding and knowledge that we have today. Geocentrisity was a concept and idea that didn't exist 2500-4000 years ago.
liberty research lol um I am not a flat earther bro. I feel like my comments are very easy to understand and explain where I am coming from. I will try one more time and then I will leave it - Mike's point is that the Bible does not speak about a flat earth. My point is that it does because of the historical context the Bible was written in. Biblical hermeutics 101 says in order to interpret a passage, you have to examine the context it was written in, not the context of the person who is reading it today. Back then EVERYONE believed the earth was flat because that's all they knew. So to examine a biblical text with a 21st century worldview is not how to exegete a passage.
@@thetat2dpreacher I didn't say you were a flat earther. I think you are incorrect about the geocentricity claim. Simply stated, a geocentrist believes the Earth is the center of creation/Universe. You are not giving any specifics. I am not seeing how what Mike says is out of context. Give examples, bro.
I also think alot of Christian do not know how to study the Bible, but they believe it. When they see or are shown these verses that at first appear to say earth is flat, they knowing the earth is round, begin to doubt there faith in the Bible. That scares them, so they decide to believe the earth is flat and that Satan has deceived the world because in their mind, if it is round, then the Bible can not be trusted. The reality is, they do not understand how to interpret what they are reading in context and do not know how to look things up in the Greek and Hebrew. So many things in the Bible that if you apply today's understanding to, you will get the wrong view of what it is trying to teach you.
I know quite a few people that have left religion because they believed the Bible and science couldn't coincide, it's easy to have that viewpoint especially with nutjob flatearthers making such an effort. There efforts are killing christianity sadly. I myself have suffered a lot of doubt because I'm not someone to dismiss science especially when it's obvious but I've overcome and found new meaning in christ. Sadly many young will not do this and will simply become nonreligous.
This is a very underrated comment lol. I think thats exactly right. Teaching hermenutics/exegesis/exegetical fallacies should be common practice in the church, but obviously its not.
How do you explain people like me? I was an agnostic my whole life until I *very deeply* studied the Globe VS Flat debate from a scientific perspective & realized Earth is actually flat & stationary... and I verified this in real life beyond any doubt in every imaginable way. This then led me to the Bible, as I was told the Bible teaches a Flat & stationary Earth when interpreted correctly (and modern day Bible scholars only believe otherwise because they're reading the presupposition of Heliocentrism into the text without justification, as a result of deceptions like the fake moon landing, etc). So, I was a Flat Earther *prior to* being a Christian. It's the primary way that God lead me to the truth of Christianity. There are an enormous number of people like this. Honestly, I've talked to so many Flat Earthers that had a similar experience. I'd say Flat Earth has turned more atheists / agnostics into Christians than the rest of Christian apologetics combined over the last decade. That's not even an exaggeration.
@lightbeforethetunnel hi, I'm currently looking into this for the first time. Since cosmology is such a big deal when it comes to globe vs. Flat model, I was hoping you could point me to FE research that explains more in depth about navigation and star patterns like the North Star + Southern Cross, and also how the moon phases and lunar eclipse happen. Currently the globe model seems best to explain these, but I want to know what the best FE resources have on the topic since Genesis 1 says these (the sun and moon) will be for days and months, seasons and years, etc. It seems like a very important part of God's creation for us is to be able to calculate all this for ourselves. Any FE names or research relating to cosmology specifically would help if you know any
@cora5525 I can share my thoughts from things I have read but I don't support the FE theory. I have heard their biblical arguments and that's what I address. Let me give you a good example. Job 38, if taken out of context seems to describe the earth is flat. The image the FE puts in your mind is one if a ring being pressed down on way or clay, to form a seal. But that is not at all what the is being said. In fact, those verses have NOTHING to do with shape of earth, it isn't trying to describe earth at all. Read this in full context. assage Resources Hebrew/Greek Your Content Job 38 12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; Here it talks about dayspring, the mourning sun. 13 That it (sun light from rising sun)might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? How does a rising sun have anything to do with the wicked being shaken out? It's a metaphors, the light reveals truth, it's the light unto our path so we know good from evil. This is talking about how God's word reveals truth, the evil can not stand in the light of God. 14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. The SEAL is TURNED. This means it is a NOT a flat seal, it's a Cylinder that is rolled over the clay, and it produces a image. That's the picture you should have of this seal, it's a Cylinder rolling over clay. The image left behind is raised up, it stands out, it becomes 3 dementional with debth. Think about the rising sun, the light first hits the highest mountain peeks. They stand out, the light reveals the depth of the earth, the mountains cast shadows. God's light, His truth reveals in a similar way, we know good and evil. The wicked can not hide in the light of God's truth anymore than a mountain can hide from the sun, or the raised image from the seal turned on clay, it stands out, it's pronounced. If anything this verse is saying we are on a rotating earth that is Cylinder shaped. But it isn't, that's not the take away, not what God is trying to do. That's not the context. 15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. His arm is broken, it stuck out , was raised, became visible and the wicked are defeated bc they can't hide. The garment is a similar metaphor, the seems of a garment are folded, they stick up higher than the rest, like a raised arm. There is much to say but that's alot. Point is, the FE Bible verses are all like this, they FE shape the verse to fit their narrative instead of allowing the verse to shape their narrative. They look for verses that can seem ti support their beliefs, thats not how you read scripture. You do not read it to support your belief, it is supposed to shape your belief. If it doesn't, u change the belief, not the verses. Thoughts?
If you believe in a globe, you believe the stars are giant Suns, far away. In revelation, the end days, the stars will fall to the earth, how is this possible, why didn't you cover this?
@Goggle products That is pure bovine scatology. Your "satellite dish" point (with which you open your argument!) is absolute garbage and completely untrue. Stop lying.
Not all the lights are stars in the sky, that’s like saying ‘shooting stars’ are actually stars. The bible is true, Gods word and every element of what it means to say is true. But..... it was also written to both us and people thousands of years ago, it was written with a human perspective with stuff they could understand. I believe god created everything, Eden, genesis, the flood (potentially regional but either way it happened). But the bible was also written so they could understand too.
I do not (so very very 100% strongly) believe in flat earth theory- and I'm just binging older Mike Winger videos- but I LOVE that I still learned so much! About the signet rings, the seals, the greek word regarding earth/land, etc. I also appreciate his kindness and the respect in which he discusses the topic.
If I were to be perfectly honest here as a Christian, I'd have to say that I do not get a spherical globe spinning around in an endless void of space from reading scripture with strong's. I don't subscribe to the flat model either, though in no doubt in my mind the Bible seems to be telling us, in no uncertain terms, that we live on some sort of still (as in stationary), levelled plane, enclosed system.
Leviticus 19:27 says our heads have corners. The Bible giving spherical objects corners. is nothing but a Elizabethian language issue. In modern English we would say sides or edges of our head. Yet in old English they came the sides corners. 🤷🏼♂️
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha Easy English > "Don't cut the sides of your head (hair)" quite straight forward 🤷♀️ Leviticus 19:27 used Corners/corner: פּאה - pê'âh corner, edge, side, quarter, extremity CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT Exodus 27:2 used Corners/Corner: פּנּה - pinnâh (of square objects) Isaiah 11:12 used Corners/corner: כּנף - kânâph wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt English sometimes murk the water when it comes to diving deep into scripture, it's much better to read with the original languages in my opinion. I have gone throughout the whole bible in regards to the description of the realm we live in and it seems to describe something else other than the standard of globe and flat.
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha I don't see you using scripture to support that thought. It takes 2-3 witnesses for a matter to be established. Proper biblical exogesis uses scripture to explain scripture, not man's theology and thoughts to explain it away.
I've come to this conclusion as well. The same in my early days with the LORD and half my friends had scripture for Calvinism and the other, Armenism. I was like great 🤷🏿
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. It is a heavy book, so your must be Strong to carry it. And after you carry it from point A to point B you are Exhausted.🤣🤣📖📖
So if we are to take the corners of the earth literally, then when Jesus says he is living water, is he Dasani or Poland Spring? He says he is bread. Potato or whole wheat? Need to take things into context
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 I can always count on seeing your name for a rebuttal. You have just as much faith in science as a Christian has in a Sky daddy.
most of the time that I talk to a flat earther...it becomes clear to me that this is their gospel...not Jesus crucified. But the earth is flat. That is their focus. That is their God. That is what they love. Bottom line, I see no reason to argue this point at all. There are biblical points I believe in strongly about that I don't debate because they are not a part of the gospel nor anything worth paying any sort of attention to (at least for now).
The reason the this subject is important to me is because all the athiests I meet tell me that the universe is ever expanding and billions of years old. Where is "the invisible man in the sky" they say. "You trust a fairy tale book over science?" They ask. They mock God by saying things like "if He does come back we will escape His wrath by going to another planet." They believe in extraterrestrial life forms simply because of the "probability of life in an ever expanding universe". They claim "if we evolved from nothing why wouldn't another species do the same in a galaxy far far away?" They claim to have images of galaxies light years away that were taken by a telescope in space. These images are used to convince people that the galaxy is unfathomably large containing endless possibilities for life outside our earth. All of these points are used to discredit God's word, and trying to conform the Bible to fit the claims of man only destroys the credibility of the Bible and fuels their argument against it.
@@collinweeks6322 Yes but the answer to those points for sure isn't "The earth is flat and we're the only ones living in the universe". There are billions of planets, you think God only created one? You think we are the only living beings in this universe? Just because God created earth at some point in this time, doesn't mean he didn't create civilisations on other planets before us. Angels exist in the Bible, what are those if not "extraterestrial" (outside of earth- Terra) creatures? Just because you don't see something, or fail to comprehend it easily doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Most of this nonsense flath earth theory is based on information gathered by senses. Your major points is that "it's obvious" when you look at the sky or see a ship in the distance with a camera, disregarding that that ship was just a small ship that didn't pass the horizon, and if you were to look at a big ship that passed the line, you would only see the top of it. You disregard any solid evidence and stick to your stubborn belief despite being proven wrong. This is ego, desire to be right, confirmation bias, nothing more. And information gathered by senses can be decieving especially if you don't understand it. Most of the people, thank God, managed to understand those concepts from a young age, sadly adults that want to believe something, will find a way to do it even when it's outright ridiculous.
@@Heracles_FE No you can't. Because it doesn't exist. Everything from the movement of the stars, that you can see clockwise/coutnerclockwise depending on which pole you watch them from, the circadian cycle, eclipses and every other point you probably heard already but refuse to accept because you choose to lie to yourself because to you it makes sense that you look forward with your eyes and see a flat surface. You are like children that believe only what they see because they didn't understand how it works. You claim you are a few select ones that see the "truth" when the irony is you got there by not understanding the basics of your reality and undermine the credibility of the Bible while doing so, because you take verses out of context to support your ridiculous claims.
@HandOfFreedom the Bible says the earth is flat. what we imagine are "aliens" are actually angels and demons. God sits above our earth, not some planet far far away. God sent His only begotten son to die for our sins. Jesus was not born on a planet lightyears away, he was born here on earth. God walked in the garden with Adam here on this earth. What do you say to Revelation 6:13 "and the stars in the sky fell to earth". Are they going to fall from 28 billion light years away? Is that "falling" at that point? If stars are massove like the sun, how will they fall to earth? There wouldn't be enough room on earth for one star let alone billions upon billions upon billions of stars.
Who can trust a monetized preacher who leans on his own understanding? I’ve never seen so many ad breaks. Do your own research. The Bible says earth was created before the sun, the earth can not be moved, the earth is a circle not a sphere, there is a dome that god sits above. Space is a religion. I choose to believe gods word not man.
I didn’t know about the amount of adds I don’t see them But I’m not going to watch this video now. Seems he’s only out to help himself and deceive others.
If you do your own research, who's there to tell you that you did mistake in your research? The lone wolf researcher is just going to read the views that support their own beliefs. You say you believe Gods word, but you might actually believe your words as Gods words. Flat earthism is form of Gnosticism. Flat earthers believe they have gained secret knowledge from Bible verses that regular Christians have not, causing feelings of superiority.
Correction, Sun moon and stars were on the 4th day. God made Ligjt the FIRST day, the Waters divided on the 2nd day, grass, herb yeilding seeds and the fruit tree yeilding fruit on the 3rd day. Sun, Moon and Stars weren't present till the 4th day! Sir Isaac Newtown wasn't the first to come up with the idea the earth is spherical. It was taught through the Kabbalah via the Zohar and the Talmud some 1,500 years prior to Isaac. But, it only goes deeper...Isaac Newton was heavy into the Kabbalah where he derived his concepts from. Proponent of the cabalist doctrine of the Jews known as the Zohar. A quick Google search of "Issac Newton Kabbalah" will lead you to the truth. This Spherical earth doctrine was taught amongst the Cabalist Jews of Mysticism and Dark Arts long before Issac Newton.
Go test for curvature and try and prove the earth spins... then read your bible again and hit your knees pray and ask the Lord to to open your eyes and show you the truth.
That doesn't mean that it is flat though. That just means that there is no power out there that can destroy God's creation. The earth is set on a strong foundation like when you build your house on rocks instead of sand.
@@braydynniewiadomski5454 that verse is not saying physically move the earth. It means that earth can never be destroyed. Only God is powerful enough to destroy the earth. But the Bible clearly tells us. God did not create the earth in vain. He created it to be inhabited. So there is no power out there that can destroy our move earth off of its foundation.
Real question for those that believe in a flat earth. Why does it really matter what shape the earth is? It has absolutely nothing to do with salvation in any way. If we die and find out we were wrong, we were just wrong about one more thing … that will again, mean nothing there. I’m not saying truth doesn’t matter at all -truth does matter - but when it’s not about salvation, why divide?
Because it's a satanic psyop to discredit the Bible and Christianity. It was the atheists pushing evolution in the 1800's that falsely accused Christians and the Bible of teaching the Earth is flat. It of course failed as NOBODY believed that. Now, 150 years later, suddenly these "Christians" have taken up Satan's cause and are blaspheming God's name and His word. This is an excellent way to keep people from the Kingdom; tell them they have to deny basic reality to become a Christian. Jesus bodly claimed He IS Truth. Rejecting Truth, is rejecting Christ, Himself! 2 Thess 2:10-11 is written for them. and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
Satan lied about the nature of the world as his counter to the Tower of Babel. God confused their language so they couldn't build their tower straight up to heaven. Satan confused our language by making man believe that the Bible is not true and heaven isn't real. On the globe, God gets farther away every day. Do you believe that?
If the earth is flat (which it is), and Governments and Authorities are collectively agreeing to lie to the public about it- it will only help Satan's cause to Mass Manipulate the population of Earth. If the Earth is Flat( which it is), and it was uncovered to the world that there were literal ends to it, and we are being lied to, it would be a great sign that Earth was created, and not just the result of some random big bang.
I was led to God and scripture in a big way through my study and research of the immune system, and my findings of yeast. I found that modern science and medicine do not credit enough the nuisance yeast is, and the role it plays in many ailments. I began to believe the world was lying to me.
My flat-earther MIL strongly believes that it matters. She is one that thrives on conspiracy theories and secrets. I think its about being a "hidden truth" in the Bible and discovering things to seem more holier than thou. She will literally raise her voice and get very upset when you try to debate her on this. That's my experience with a flat-earther.
I know this was a long time ago, but in would love to share this on the SciManDan channels. He is an atheist and uses those Christians who get it wrong to discount Christianity and it makes me mad. Would love to hear about the firmament
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy His conclusion isn't unbiased nor inclined to what the text truly is saying. It is clear that his logic is based on his own preconception that the earth is based on today's scientific orientation. If you were to be honest to what the scriptures read, you would without a doubt conclude that the earth is stable and the sun, the moon and the star is always what moves. Can you show me where in the bible declares that the earth is what moves?
@@andrejones2147 Have you watched the video? "anyone who truly knows what the Bible says and denies that i believe is blatantly lying" Wow, I don't know if that is a typo, but it sounds AS STATED extremely self-absorbed.
“I know I’m gonna get reamed…” I love you Pastor Winger. You often make me laugh, while teaching the Word of God to us. That’s a good gift to have. Praise the Lord. Amen 🙏. Blessings y’all.
I can see most of Catalina Island almost down to the shore line from the Malibu pier easily on a clear day with a pair of binoculars. According to the curve calculator, 800 feet from North to over 1400 feet in the South of the bottom half of the island should not be visible. Yet it's obvious I can see almost down to the water line.
I was expecting to find some strong refutations because many of your other teachings are sound, but this was not convincing. None of your "irrefutable evidence" here is actually irrefutable.
To go into specific detail. Genesis only the dry land was called earth. Therefore the ends of the earth is the ends of the dry land. Furthermore there may well have been four corners of dry land before the continents were separated. What you can't get from bible verses is a spinning ball orbiting the sun
The four ends of the Earth are borrowed from Akkadian/Sumerian traditions. They called one corner the Zagros mountains, for instance, but they very well knew that there were people beyond the mountains. They traded with them!
@@vanorum3804 on this subject waters is often referred to as masses of people, however in genesis 1 water means water, because at that moment there were no people.
When you look up at the full moon at night, is it not circular? Not a square, or a triangle. So when it says that God looks down and sees a circle, it is an accurate description. When the scriptures talk about the 4 corners of the earth, the context is talking about direction... north, east, west, and south.
What I find most insulting is the idea that biblical inspiration was adapted to the "common understanding of the people of the time", as though modern cosmology is difficult to understand (it isn't, we can reduce it to a few pictures that school kids understand); or that God couldn't be bothered to correct their erroneous understanding of His creation, despite the fact that the Bible is dedicated to giving God glory FOR the creation. What is most egregious about this is that our so-called "modern" cosmology WAS present at the time of the biblical authors - in India. The ancient Hindu sages already had this idea of cycles of billions and billions of years, of a gradually evolving creation, of God as an impersonal force rather than a person, of innumerable other worlds, etc. So if the ancient Hindus could figure it out, why couldn't God have inspired the biblical authors to say, "Hey, these guys have it right"? Seriously, it's not hard to write "God made the world slowly over vast eons of time, and there are innumerable other worlds containing innumerable other souls." That's not a difficult concept to grasp or a difficult thing to write. If the Hindus managed it, why not the Israelites? I believe the ancient Hindu / modern secular cosmology is of demonic inspiration; it manifests the devil's hatred of the created world, and is an attempt to make it seem insignificant and meaningless, robbing God of the glory of creation.
What I find most insulting is the lie that flat earth was a thing before about 1850 AD. The question before then was whether the center of the solar system (ie, the Universe) was the Earth (geocentrism) or the Sun (heliocentrism)?
The Globe only came from the 1500 ad Jesuits and the bad guys lol came up with model to take people away from god very successful lie. The Bible clearly says flat coming from a none believer 4 years ago. Sad how guys like Mike winger try to cherry pick a few texts when there's over two hundred. The globe has none why?
@@velinix7915 "Wrong" depends on whether something intends to address something -- if it doesn't, it can't be wrong. One of my pre-grad school literature professors used an example I still like: is Joyce Kilmer's poem "Trees" wrong about botany? No -- because it wasn't written to say anything about botany. So also, the first Creation story can't be wrong about science because it didn't care about science. And it makes no sense to think that God would have bothered to try to tell ancient people about modern science; in fact thinking He would is astoundingly arrogant, as though our science is totally correct -- after all, in the middle ages people thought that Genesis fit the belief that everything was made up of just four elements, which was their science.
@@libertyresearch-iu4fyYou are not informed buddy. The Torah is flat , and Yashua came here and did not correct the understanding . It wasn't until the middle ages that the church went globe , and it is only in translations post 1200 are any changes to the obvious original intent were made. People like you and this guy use church rewrites to support original intent like you are literally wetoded.
Mike i appreciate your scholarly attitude towards this and commending a more accurate study of scripture. I didnt know about reading the Bible in context till about 3 years ago, and it has made a lot of difference. It is very common to read what we want in scripture because unfortunately a lof of churches dont teach the correct way to read the bible. I used to think I could just take a verse and apply it to my life. It can cause a lot of false doctrine including prosperity gospel. God bless you for real.
When taken in context the Bible supports a stationary Earth over a flat plane. In no way does it support the heliocentric model. The video is biased from the start. You have to turn every verse about the Earth into a figure of speech in order to avoid this truth. Either way a spherical Earth isn’t taught, not even in Isaiah.
@Innocent Bystander The globe is no different than evolution, it took some time for that nonsense to become clearer to those who fear the Lord but in the end those who want the truth will dig for it as they do precious stones, gold and silver. It's not going to be given to you on a silver platter but in the end you will stand in awe of the lies which we have believed namely: EVOLUTION, BIG BANG, AGE OF THE EARTH (MILLIONS/BILLIONS OF YEARS), NEW BIBLE PERVERSIONS (TEXTUAL CRITICISM), ALIENS, and on and on and on.... The lies are real as told by Jesus Christ Himself: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Read the Bible properly and in context *100% proves* that God has declared the earth to be flat, stationary, set upon pillars enclosed by the Firmament, with Heaven above, Hell below, Waters over the Firmament, the sun that revolves around us, the moon that is and gives her own light, etc. etc. There are literally hundreds of biblical verses that assert such things. In contrast, *zero* verses support the heliocentric globe model whatsoever. So the million dollar question is: why are people like you and Mike siding against what scriptures actually say? What is your biblical basis for doing that?
@Innocent Bystander No, the globe is definitely *not* a fact, but rather, a Luciferian and vehemently anti-biblical myth. You assert otherwise solely because you've been indoctrinated to do so. But here's the problem: the Bible itself opposes your beliefs. So why do you refuse to take God at His Word?
Use your videos at our Bible Studies! We love your approach and can see the effort you have put in to do the presentations. Bless you, from South Africa
@@RTTRn Well, how do account for the simultaneous longer days on the inner pancake and shorter days on the outer pancake, and vice versa. Or how do you account for the simultaneous solar analemma at different angles around the pancake, or how do you account for the sun circling the pancake at all [Hint: I need more than "God made it that way".] at a measly 3000 mile elevation?
Devan Velo Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights, the sun to rule the day, and the moon to rule the night. Yes, the moon is a light. Also, scientifically, the suns light is warm, and the moons light is cool.
Devan Velo scripture says that God created two great lights.. (sun and moon) not one great light and a reflector.. the Bible says the moon is a light and the fact that the light coming off the moon is actually cold and has opposite properties then the sun, tells us the light coming off the moon is unique and not light that comes from the sun. God bless!
The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31] The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32] Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47). Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.
@@celestialsatheist1535ut the Bible doesn’t teach the earth is flat, that’s a human mistake. Cosmas using the verse in revelation is such a bad take for his opinion
@@bikesrcool_1958 job:38:13-14) 13 that it might take hold of the ends of the earth, and shake the wicked out of it? 14 It is changed as clay under the seal, and presented as a garment. And these verses are saying that the earth is like a piece of clay under a seal and the earth apparently had ends! Need a better description of a flat earth? .
@@celestialsatheist1535 ….. this is what happens when you take verses hyper literally. Job is full of poetry, look at leviathan and behemoth. How God describes everything. Don’t try to find problems when there isn’t any to begin with, unless you try to interpret it that way.
Job 38 is another group of verses that many would reach for as evidence for angels being created before humans, but if we look at the verses, we can see it's poetic language. The morning stars literally sang together about as much as God literally stretched a line or measuring tape to measure the Earth. (Side note: A number of Flat Earthers would use Job 38:6 to claim that the Earth is not floating in outer space, but is sitting on bases or pillars.) The morning stars are not angels. They are literal stars, but the singing is poetic language. The stars didn't actually sing, that is, unless we also think that Job 38:8 is speaking of the sea as having literal doors. The sons of God are humans who were happy to have been welcomed by God into existence, into creation, not supernatural angels. (See Genesis 1:26 - 2:1) (ESV) 1 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: 4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements-surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors ..."
Just FYI: at least in the modern Hebrew, the word from Isaiah 22:18 is seen as the same kind of ball we think of here in America as something round and solid that we would throw it like a baseball or basketball. I am thoroughly enjoying this talk.
The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31] The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32] Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47). Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.
A plausible theory regarding the question of sun not being made until day four. God said let there be light. God is light and the source of life. Pretty plausible that God's own radiance was sustaining the plants and animals until He finished His creation which included in His plans the sun and photisynthesis and the moon with its gravitational fields affecting tide, etc. Anyways. Just my 2 cents.
My flat earth friends, don’t burden yourself with this flat earth stuff. Don’t make it a stumbling block. Because if it turns out you’re wrong and you start believing the earth is a sphere, well since you’ve reasoned in your mind the Bible teaches flat earth, you’ll be tempted to throw the Bible out. People do this with evolution all the time. They assume the Bible MUST be read this ONE way and, when the evidence contradicts that, they toss out the Bible.
Your comment won't affect flat earthers. Because those of us in this thread are Bible believers and have seen tons of Scriptures that support the flat earth, despite what Mike THINKS. It's only those that haven't done any serious study of it, and a few like Mike that really think the earth is still a globe, but say they believe in the Bible and call themselves apologists. And we also have other proofs. It's those that support the globe that you should be warning, because the HELiocentric theory supports the anti-Christ big bang and evolution.
George Williams See, not only have you put a burden on yourself, you’ve put one on me. You think I am supporting the anti-Christ, and therefore am probably going to hell, because I believe the earth is a sphere. You’re putting a yoke on people that Jesus didn’t ask us to bear. Flat or sphere, it doesn’t matter. Jesus died and was raised by God. THATS what matters. And I believe it wholeheartedly. I’m saved regardless of what shape I believe the earth is.
@@quickattackfilms7923 You said because of evolution, some people toss their bible and their beliefs away. Why toss the bible and.your faith, when you can toss away the theory of evolution. Can science prove a resurrection? If it can't or can, which will you toss away? Like how science say the stars and the Sun came first contrary to scriptures which say that the earth was made first and the sun moon stars was made during the 4th day.
I’m here to learn because I love the Lord and His word. Having a friend introduce me to flat earth while I was in paganism/occult was one of the stepping stones to bringing me to Christ. I had thought flat earthers were crazy but after deep diving into it it began to make more sense. Now, I still have questions- I don’t know everything there is on globe earth as much as I don’t know everything there is spoken about flat earth. I am open to understanding. My focus is still and always will be on Jesus. Brining truth to His word matters to me greatly! I do think much of what we are taught in schools is a mess of lies, so relying on school textbooks-even college ones aren’t an argument for me in saying what’s truth. Whats written by man has an agenda- always. What’s written by the Lord IS TRUTH. God bless you all, in Yeshua’s name Amen 🕊️
I can tell you that flat earthers lie, a lot. For instance, flat earth has been around for less than 200 years. The major thought accepted geocentrism until heliocentrism replaced it. BTW, geocentrism is different than flat earth.
Place a pen on a rotating ball and see how it moves evenly around. But our sun arc's around. This arc is only possible on the flat earth. Summer sun in Australia has the sun moving 3, 12, 9 clock face. A ball earth will have the sun move 3 in line to 9 it's a straight path. The heliocentric sun can not arc. Try the experiment. Use a prism as it's easy to keep level and true. The pen will remain in a straight line. No arc. Earth is FLAT with a spiraling anti clock wise sun. Its the only explanation for the 3, 12, 9. But Australia needs to be nearer the north pole. The tightening spiral gives the extream arc. The opening allows for the winter arc. The poles are off limits to citizens. The sun reveals the truth when you think.
I have a firm, and easily relatable grasp on the nuts & bolts of how our world can only be a sphere, if you ever have a specific question, feel free to ask. I'm a Christian as well, and these flerf idiots do more damage than our reputation has already suffered from the "prosperity" types, televangelists, and loud mouthed fundies combined.
Hey man, glad you're here! I can tell you what comvinced the ancient scientists. They noticed that when they watched a boat go out to sea, it disapeared from bottom to top over the horizon. This indicated to them that the earth was a sphere. They then did expiraments to confirm it, but I'll leave that to your research. If you live in an area where you can watch ships leaving to sea, I would recommend trying it for yourself. Hope this helps!
@@sarahkeen526 The exact same thing happens if a person walks away from an observer on a dead flat road. First his shoes disappear then his legs, then hips, torso, then his head. No curve needed. Just a natural phenomenon science called convergence.
2 things I love about Mike, 3 things I really admire… his hard work for the gospel, his gentle attitude and humility, and the fact he was invited to Christ as a youngster, which has inspired me to view young people more Spiritually. Mike your love for God, your insights into his word and your example is an upward call. Thanks 🙏🏻🙌🏼🙏🏻🙌🏼🙏🏻🙌🏼
@@JesusismyGOD do not add nor subtract from the Word of God, friend. Jesus said so, so I would stop trying to make what he says mean something you like instead of what it says.
Anonymous Bosch Earthquakes aren’t the whole Earth moving as a whole. It’s one part of the Earth quaking temporally until it stops. The Bible teaches Earthquakes, not a spinning ball Earth. The Bible makes it clear the Sun circuits the Earth and that God stopped the Sun moving. I doubt he stopped the Earth from Spinning, LOL!
@@anonymousbosch586 "People like you are giving bible believers a bad name." Can you forgive us? haha Relax friend, it's just a friendly conversation about the shape of the world. Have fun with it!
@@anonymousbosch586 Trusting in man is not good, he turns away from God and is full of lies. Each person believes in his own reality, so many live in an illusion. The world ruled by lying psychopaths who ruin everything, they have the power of money, law, science, psychology, technology, brilliant minds and the power of the dark forces. The world is like an onion, how many layers of truth can you see? Do you know how easy it is to deceive the human being? People say what they think others want to hear so they don't feel ridiculous. Do you think the most influential scientists are impartial? We have all been through indoctrination in schools, everyone is ashamed to contradict the official truth. People debate and defend their ideas, not in order to learn together, but to win the debate and show that the other is wrong. They feel smart because the world agrees with them, of course, they say what the world wants them to say. Let's be critical, let's not be our own police.
So to refute flat earth you say the bible doesn't mean what it says or he couldn't "walk up a mountain in 40 days. lol But then to defend your view you infer a bunch of things into it that it doesn't say and then you say satan's encounter with Jesus was supernatural. I've never heard such contraditory readings of the bible in my life. You can have your "opinion", but to have to infer a whole new wording to each passage is pure deceit. I wish you could hear yourself. All I can say is WOW
Have you thought about doing a video on the firmement? It seems like you just kind of skipped over it even tho it's mentioned countless times in the Bible what do you believe the meaning is?? And I say this with love. God bless
I think the firmament is strong as a molten looking glass where God put the sun moon and stars to be lights that holds back the waters above. That's what the bible says anyway.
The original hebrew text does not say firmament! It has the word raqia (expansion), coming from raqa (to expand in plates). The septuagint translates raqia with stereoma, meaning a solid, firm. structure and then the latin Vulgate gets firmamemtum, from stereoma, meaning something you can hold to in the case of an argument, *NOT A DOME*.
@@philipps6032 Thank You Phillip so with that what do you believe the firmament or raqia is in your own words? just the regular sky? The part that gets me is it says birds fly on the face of the permanent knots in the firmament
@@_kline9571 I believe the firmament, or expanse in days one to three should better translate as expanding crust, indicating there was a literal shell formed, which seperated the waters. In days four to six the text specificly mentions, when it talks about literal heaven, the expanse/firmament of heaven. And if you take the hebrew word for heaven, that is, shamayim, you can get very interesting translations. The first thing the ancients had in mind when hearing "heaven" were "the waters above", further to this, you can actually hear it in the word "shamayim", Split it in two: sham mayim, and get "high waters" as a plausible translation, and this solves some confusions in the text.
Seems the argument that the ends of the earth equals land and water is a mistake. The word “earth” in Hebrew means land not the whole globe including the ocean, flat or not. Ends of the earth simply means all the lands not all the waters too. Thus those verse about nations coming from the ends of the earth make sense no matter what shape the earth is. Heaven and earth means kind of like A to Z of creation.
So the tower of babel wasn't a real thing and God didn't have to stop it? Because the bible says if God hadn't confused their language they would have been successful. But yet astronauts can go to space and it's a non issue? I guess that's more scripture taken out of context though.... right?
@@TC8110 When did I argue that Babel was a metaphor? Reaching the heavens simply is a metaphor for being very tall... No man made structure can actually reach the heavens, even with today's technology, forget about brick and mortar... That's not what God was stopping...
I sort of liked this one response to flat Earth which is this. Jeremiah 31:37(KJV) "Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord." Then you wonder if it has been searched out then it says it will cast all the seed of Israel if this happens. Has this happened? You then read Romans 11:1(KJV)"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Then you can also check out Ecclesiastes 3:11(KJV)"11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.". The argument is a poor one, because if we aren't able to know. Scripture says no man can find out and says if man had found out, God would cast all the seed of Israel, but like it says in Romans 11:1(KJV)"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Has God cast away his people? The answer is no. Now, some will accuse you of believing in the wisdom of this world when you don't confirm nor deny flat Earth, but scripture says we cannot know, so arguing from either side is at best talking from a place of ignorance.
Wow.. I kind of like all of the Scriptures that Tell us of the Creator and His Creation. For there are many. Knock and the door will open. Seek and you shall find. Blessing out to you.
@@mrsg.4398 Indeed, but some get very upset if you deny flat earth as well. Almost like they would break fellowship over what shape the earth is, even though scripture doesn't mention it. And it doesn't make it the most important thing in scripture to know. Not confirming earth is round either, but does seem some make this issue bigger than it really is. Almost placing it more important than the gospel.
@@da3879 Young earth creationism isn't the gospel either but I wouldn't go to a church that taught millions of years and evolution because I wouldn't think they really believe the bible. So it's similar except there are very few flat earth churches so you take what you can get.
If they are everywhere. How comes no one can even provide one.... if the globe is real there should be at least one bible verse that supports this idea. How was the sun and moon stopped in Joshua? And why was he given authority to stop the moon and sun if the earth is spinning to create the day? And how could the earth stop spinning with out the oceans moving out of place.. these are the kinds of things that should make you wonder .
@josh I literally had a relative site that scripture to refute my Flat Earth claim. I told him to re-read it. That verse is 100% talking about Flat Earth. There is a separate Hebrew word used for ball/globe. The Lord knew this argument would occur and made sure there was a differentiation for context in the Bible.
Thanks to @damianized for providing these time stamps!
0:00 Intro
3:28 “Ends of Earth”
12:49 Biblical Earth rotation
18:22 signet-ring/seal translation to prove some FE argument with Job quote
29:10 “The earth is My footstool”
32:48 “Pillars of the earth”
37:12 “Cornerstone”
41:22 “Circle of the earth”
45:45 “Vault of heaven”
45:42 “Corners of the earth”
49:56 “Foundations of the earth”
52:56 "Waters under earth"
57:03 The earth is a "plateau"?
59:47 “Four corners of the earth” revisited
1:03:31 "End of the whole earth”
1:05:32 How did Jesus see "all the kingdoms" of the world from a mountain?
1:16:00 Ball or sphere diction
1:17:20 What about the sun stopping in Joshua?
1:19:16 What if the Bible did teach a flat earth?
1:22:51 What about scholars who think the Bible teaches a flat earth?
1:23:58 Firmament stuff
1:32:20 Stars falling from heaven + celestial body stuff
If the moon is millions miles away how can you see clouds behind the moon? Your thumbnail isn’t correct either just to point that out. That not how flat earth is. Go back and read Genesis again.
@@bensoumokil you can’t. Light reflected off the moon shines through thin clouds making them APPEAR to be behind the moon. Use proper light filters and exposure levels and you will see that the clouds are, in fact, in front of the moon.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 you make it way to complicated then it needs to be. It’s pretty simple.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 you can see the clouds behind the moon. Do you ever look at the moon with clouds behind it? Trust your eyes and not science.
@@bensoumokil “trust your eyes, not science”?! Tell that to a blind person.
And who said anything about science. I said use a proper filter and adjust the exposure levels on your camera. Then it will become clear that the clouds ARE NOT BEHIND THE MOON. After all, if you’re going to rely on pictures taken with your camera, you MIGHT wanna use it properly.
They’re just thin clouds with light shining through them so they APPEAR like they’re behind it. But they are NOT.
The old joke comes to mind, “I can do all things through a verse taken out of context.”
Jesus said, “you have heard ‘an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’”
THERE YOU HAVE IT! Jesus advocated revenge!
LOL
@A Lucky Man! brilliant!
I’ve always wanted to know why the Bible tells me God will give me everything I ask for (John 16:23) and I have yet to become a rich, Hollywood, blockbuster filmmaker.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 it’s not always what you want is best
@@matthewchubre2631 literal interpretation, ANYTHING you ask for believing, he will give.
Paul got stoned. :/
My main issue with this, regardless of whether I agree with flat earth or not, is that , it seems like people who come up with these ideas or new understandings , is that it becomes such a huge focus. Whether the earth is flat or not shouldn’t be the main issue...how does that help anyone come to Jesus? It seems to just distract from the preaching of the Gospel. All the “issues” and little things that are dividing Christians is sad to me. Thanks for this channel ....I really enjoy listening to your explanations on the various topics.
It's true that this can become too big of a focus, however, the same can be said about young earth creation. Young earth creation is an important topic because the integrity of God's word is at stake. Those of us who believe in geocentrism and/or flat earth view the topic in a similar manner. We believe it's important because of the integrity of God's word. And not only that, if the earth and heaven, sun, moon and stars are all that there is (as the bible presupposes), then that means that there's no possibility of evolution, big bang, etc. Big bang and evolution can only work in the heliocentric ever expanding universe model.
My parents and other family have become flat earthers and this is always my basic question as well.
I still believe that satan will use any distraction to keep Christians from sharing the Gospel. I have said this many times--what does the shape of the earth have to do with eternity???
Have you ever heard of Dr Jason Lisle? He's an astrophysicist and a Christian. There's an interview he did with Justin Peters on RUclips. He gives scientific and mathematical facts regarding the flat earth theory.
I have a suspicion that the flat earthers also believe that we didn't go to the moon or do any space exploration. Dr Lisle discusses this also. I hope you will see the interview. It's very eye opening! 😊👍🤗
@@kathierouse5306 Correct, we do deny the moon landings. The moon landings are an obvious hoax. It's more challenging to deal with the ball earth deception than the moon landings. Even people who believe in ball earth understand how fake the moon landings were. Regarding distractions, flat earth is no more a distraction than defending creation against evolution, as I stated previously. Those who argue against either/or are similar to those who say we shouldn't focus on "doctrine" and should focus on "Jesus".
Well, you can't know who Jesus is if you have false doctrine about who he is. And you can't know God if you believe in myths about his creation because his creation displays his character.
It is dependent on the reliability of the bible...so it has implications for the reality of christ
I'm sure all the comments will be polite and reasonable.
Yeah I still believe in miracles too.
With God all things are possible.
Teehee at this thread
@@paulofthewoods0787 do you live in the woods?
@@somethinggood9267 it's pretty wooded here.
I spent 8 years at sea while serving in the USN. How does a flat-earther reconcile that if we set a steady course with no turns and did not have to adjust for latitude and longitude, since the earth is flat, and went in a straight line, wouldn’t we have hit an edge eventually??
Did you actually do this? Set a straight course and kept going?
@@chrisking6874 No, of course not. Most of our deployments are well charted out, especially in high transit areas.
We did however make a huge circle without the Officer of the Deck or CIC figuring it out!!
you can have latitude and longitude on a flat earth just like a globe. What do you mean, "straight line". if you fallow the equator, you'll just circumvent the flat disk.
Research operation hijump, operation fishbowl, operation deepfreeze. The US govt figured out the flat earth covered by a dome back in the 1930’s & 1940’s, Antarctica is the circular ice-wall edge. There are even old encyclopedia entries about the edge of the dome(firmament) in Antarctica.
It does not teach flat earth or ball earth, and does not need too.
It's about salvation and reconciliation.
Douay-Rheims Translation Isa 40:22, “God sits on his throne above the GLOBE of the Earth.”
@Betty Boop Douay-Rheims translation actually says specifically, GLOBE. Not circle.
The original Hebrew word used in that passage even translates to SPHERE.
@Savin Bullets wrong when you consider that a circle only looks like a circle from 2 angles out of 360. All over angles it looks like an oval.
Only one shape looks like a circle from any angle it’s viewed... and that’s a SPHERE. Which means even those other 50 can be argued to support the globe.
Additionally, THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENCE BOOK. And all real science to test reality confirms that EARTH IS A GLOBE.
Deal with it.
@The Barefoot Kid Isaiah 40:22
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
22 It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth,
@Savin Bullets much like Nathan Roberts who did exactly the same thing by quoting a single passage out the Matthews Bible that says “flat earth.” A passage that, when read in context is just talking about A FIELD.
At least the passage I quoted is actually talking about the earth itself. Not just one part of it.
Earth is a globe.
Deal with it.
The thing flat-earthers fear the most is "sphere itself"
Or God
In the last days there will be scoffers.
@Mark Barnum yup they simply will ignore we can see too fare
Man that's a good pun haha
Why are you so concerned about what flat earthers think?
I thought when you zoomed in on your cat you were going to go with the quote: "If the Earth were flat cats would have pushed everything off it by now."
They would freeze to death in Antarctica which circles the circle of the earth, underneath the vault of the sky.
Oh, man, I just spewed water all over my keyboard when I read that. That would have been perfect.
Knowledge comes of as ignorance to those who choose to be ignorant. Just a bunch of ignorant, hypocritical believers who can't even see they contradict their own beliefs.
@@allnutturalrawthoughts7453There's nothing in the Bible that clearly states the shape of the earth, believing your eyes and all available evidence regarding its shape does not make you a hypocrite. Star trails, sunrises/sunsets, constellations & the fact that every other celestial body is a sphere prove that the earth is spherical.
😂 I've hear that many times. Dumb as always
That part in Job where it says, “and everything under the heavens” is what sets the verse apart. He isn’t just speaking about people, he is speaking about it all- all the way to the end. The others are speaking in relative terms.
If someone hasn’t tested the curvature how can they speak with certainty? I found fault in the Biblical rotation from the beginning of your commentary. The sun and moon don’t just rotate, they come close and push away from the North Pole which is what causes our seasons. It’s also not 93 million miles away or 1. It would illuminate all of space 2. would not display crepuscular rays (which means you can easily triangulate them) 3. Would not appear as a localized light source upon the water/earth. 4. Why are the sun and moon visible in the sky at the same time? Because their speeds are not the same so eventually the sun will pass the moon. 5. How can we travel through space spinning at 1,040mph, while spinning around the sun at 66,600mph, while everything else is also spinning....
and yet the stars align every-night. I know, I’ve watched for a year. I have many more thoughts that you and I can discuss.
However, a flat, non-rotating earth makes sense if you read Joshua 10:13 from a literal sense. BTW how many hours does it take to fly east to west or west to east? The same hours and minutes both ways. Why can’t a helicopter liftoff and hover while waiting for its designated landing spot to arrive? Just some other “crazy” thoughts I’ve had.
Where do you get the information from? NASA? The same one that had a Nazi SS guard as the head of the rocket dept.? The same agency full of Freemasons? Why have Obama and many others said we can’t leave low earth orbit? Why did astronaut Petite say we destroyed the technology that took us to the moon? How many times has Buzz Aldrin said he never went to the moon? People should think critically because deception is easy when the devil is at play. Ask yourself why is the ouroboros circling the NASA logo? Do you know what that signifies? What about the snake tongue that’s in the foreground? Operation Paperclip explains quite a bit. No conspiracy.
Anyone can test the curve theory for themselves. Large body of water, preferably a lake, a high powered camera or a laser pointer are all that’s needed. I believe in God and I know the Bible has no fallacies so when a pastor says things they can’t confirm it should be addressed. Someone can not ridicule something they have not tested, if they do it would be foolish. And if this was tested prior to making this video the video would not be here. If someone has not physically tested the curvature then everything stated would be an opinion. I would be more than happy to show you the truth if you’re ever in south FL. God bless.
Lastly, Mark 13:24 says the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. So does the moon give its own light or is it a reflection as “science” claims. It gives off its own glow. Nikon P900 full spectrum is great to prove/disprove many issues you’ve discussed.
We live on a clock.
Just another FLERF demonstrating they know NOTHING about life, reality especially things like physics, how light works or ANY concept of spatial orientation.
The fact you think the moon and the sun are close, is what blows up your already absurd model that literally doesn't demonstrate ONE thing we can observe in reality with our own eyes.
Light can't light up a vacuum. So, there is nothing in space to BE lit up. What was see in daytime on earth is the light reflecting off the molecules in our atmosphere. If we had no atmosphere, the surface would be lit up, but the sky would be black.
You're crepuscular rays are easily debunked when you fly up to the clouds and see the lines are parallel, but just like rails on the train tracks, they appear to converge to a point, but obviously they don't.
the sun, moon, stars all ARC across the sky, they don't circle overhead. And the angle of the arc is determined by what line of latitude you are at. ONLY at the north pole do the stars and planet circle overhead.
On a flat disc, it would be daytime 100% of the time. Only on a globe can you get nighttime. And the idea that the sun is a spotlight is not only absurd, you can see with a Hydrogen alpha telescope it is a sphere that also rotates, But even if you wanted to make it super close so that it only DIRECLTY lights up a portion of the earth, you would still see it at night, just like we can see the stars at night, just like you can see a streetlight from far off, even though you aren't under its directed light beam.
Crepuscular rays, the tower of Babel, double rainbows reflecting off the firmament. Real Christians are too afraid to humble themselves to the point they can see the lie. It's the devil's revenge against God confusing the language. Satan has done the same thing to us.
You are exactly correct. My real issue with this guy is when he answered a viewer who asked him if the Holy Bible stated “the earth is flat” would he believe it? And he answered he does not know, he would have to think about it”. I commented above to him that apparently he is stating either (1) that God would lie (2) that the Bible is not the infallible Word of God, Either way, he is not someone I will watch or listen to again, as I have serious questions about this guy’s motives for teaching his version of the Word of God.
Interesting topic but not worth getting in a heated debate over. It's not like our salvation is dependent upon whether we believe the earth is flat or a sphere.
No, but some of these FLERFS actually believe that. Nathan Roberts, who wrote a book about this crap, believes that if you don’t think the earth is flat, you’re going to hell.
It’s not something to be ignored. Believing untruth always has consequences. The consequence of flat earthers claiming that they get this from the Bible has the effect of giving the nonbelievimg world grounds for thinking Christians are stupid, crazy, and anti-science. How many unbelievers are confirmed in their unwillingness to consider the Bible and the Christian faith and justify because of stuff like this is not a small consequence. Truth matters.
True, but just because our salvation isn’t dependent on it, doesn’t mean that it isn’t worth speaking about
@@k-dawgwestmore4643 and doesn’t change the facts that the Bible isn’t a science book, and the earth is not flat.
Earth is a globe.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 Yeah I agree
why was the sun stopped and not the earth stopped?
Because God doesn't have to give Moses a course on cosmology before working his miracle...
@@jessethomas3979 but God is also not a liar.
@@jessethomas3979 By that logic, when the Bible states that the sun, moon, and stars were created within the firmament, we don't have to believe that because it wasn't a cosmology course. Keep listening to the atheistic, big-bang, evolutionistic scientists who tell you that the sun, moon, and stars are outside the firmament.
God isn't a liar. But just as Mike points out, it is about perspective. There are no bars or doors holding the waters back on the beaches and coastlines nor do thoughts come from your physical heart...he speaks truths so we may comprehend them.
Look at Jesus, God in flesh spoke in parables. Do you believe the kingdom of heaven looks exactly like a mustard seed that becomes a tree? Or do you believe heaven and hell are 100% accurately described in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus?
Or possibly, God wrote things in a way that we could understand them.
@@nicholaschrist1086 The parables were spoken to the Jews by Jesus so that they wouldn't understand them. (Mat 13 13)
If you understand the parables at all, they were prophecies regarding Israel. Lazarus and the rich man has nothing to do with heaven or hell. It's a reversal of those near and those far.....Jew and Gentile.
The kingdom of God is, in fact, just as Jesus taught. It isn't a mustard seed that grows into a great tree but it is "like" that. It isn't a dragnet that gathers all manner of fish but it is "like" that. It isn't a wedding in which the original guests refuse to come but it is "like" that. Do you believe the "kingdom" of God is Israel ruling the Earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years? I hope not because that's not what Jesus nor Paul taught. I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying that God wrote untruths so we could understand truths?
Your point seems to be that you also see how the Word states clearly that the lights of the firmament were placed by God INSIDE the firmament but in actuality, we know that they were placed outside the firmament as the atheists and evolutionists tell us. In your logic, God did this because we couldn't understand the concept of the lights being outside the firmament. If we get that information from evolutionists and atheists....then we can understand it but God has to write the opposite so we can understand it from our perspective. Do I have that right?
Jewish idioms mess the flat earth believers up, humans communicate through idioms, but no idioms are used worldwide, go to Africa and say things like:
•it’s raining cats and dogs
•you’re pulling my leg
•hold your horses
•this is taking forever
The people in Africa will not know what you are talking about, because they have different idioms
The scriptures that flat earth believers point to are all idiom verses…
One thought… “the pillars of heaven tremble” could be righteous people, as in the “pillars of our community” tremble
I believe the Bible is literally true and scientifically accurate.
Listen to yourself. The Earth is a footstool? Just a suggestion: footstools are not flat.
@Truth hurts liars why whatever do you mean? 🤭
1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV) O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
So where are the Koalas and Kangaroos in Mexico?
So when God called out to Adam and said "Adam, where are you?", you think that literally meant God didn't know where Adam was? You are a smart one aren't you? (Don't take that literally)
Questionable inquiry. Couldn't the ends of the earth mean beyond what is known (mapped)?
Yes, but it varies by context, as he pointed out the verses that clearly meant Babylon, was the ends of the earth.
But regardless, his point is that as weak as the ends of the earth argument means, as there are no ends on a globe or disc, it would be edges for a disc., the point remains, it's CLEARLY not literal.
Therre are SO many Bible verses that clearly aren't literal and not even the most ardent FLERF would argue they ARE literal, but when it comes to their asinine theory, suddenly ALL of "their" verses MUST be taken literally.
Yet even in our modern age, we talk about sunrise and sunset, we don't mean those LITERALLY, it's just a figurative way of saying what we observer. IMAGINE trying to LITERALLY describe a sunset or sunrise in everyday conversation. It would be unbelievably cumbersome and absurd.
"This morning, I got up and watched the effect of the earth's rotation, so that the sun came back into view towards the east."
Yes.
The "ends of the earth" was just a really common saying meaning from super far away
Exactly , just like the term " The pillars of the earth " refers to its foundations not literally pillars..lol
on a flat earth.....
@@fleurlewis what is exactly the foundations of the globe ?🤔
@@waristerrorism651 why try to understand it in human terms.. does God who created all out of nothing need to hold the earth up with something of a physical means ? what about all the other planets and sun ..God has the means to hold each up in its orbit perfectly..
@@waristerrorism651 The core
Every time I watch one of Mike's videos, it reminds me of how much I need to practice my humility, patience and understanding with others, especially on the internet. People are so quick to say many things they would never say to a stranger in real life, and I am very guilty of that. Mike, I just wanted to say thank you for being such a great example of what a Christian should act like. I really appreciate all of your hard work and effort that you put into all of your videos. I'm currently on the 6th video in your "Jesus in the Old Testament" Bible study playlist, and it has literally blown my mind and really expanded my knowledge and understanding of the Old Testament. I pray God continues to bless you as you are constantly blessing others with your online Bible content. I love you brother!
Good for you for humbling yourself, remember Jesus, how patient he was! Even when he was being killed he told God to forgive those who Pierced him. Even in death he was not driven to anger! Remember brother, this does not mean dont confront false teachings, no one can guide you on what to say except the Holy Spirit, when the time comes God will give you the words. And if you cannot hear God's voice telling you what to do and say, ask for the Holy Spirit so he can guide you on what to do. God bless you
@RCSNIPER34
My sentiments exactly!
Mike and Ray Comfort are my examples of rising above controversy and not letting distractions stop your gospel presentation.
Revelation says God will judge people out of the books he'll open. It occurs to me that if God simply opened facebook that one would be enough to judge most of us!
(Sorry Pastor Mike for abusing the context)😂
Great comments. I am challenged by Mikes videos to live out following Christ. God Bless You.
Anyway impediment not withstanding 4dendrites a tendril a synapses,4armedforces law enforcement government agents, 4cranial plates a brain stem a Brain, 4palm bones a thumb a left hand/spike in church or court,4foot bones a big toe a left kick off stage, 4major/minor prepuce a clit007, 4molarroots a grind surface a nerve, 5/6senses digits appendages like black cherry and blue flesh X-ray purple/monarchy feels good sunburn
However, thr truth need to be told. The Earth is flat, covered with Firmament. Because the Bible said so.
Proverbs 8:27-29
“When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,”
What about it?
Amen sis. The scripture is clear as day.
@@cryptojihadi265Either it’s true or it’s false, and God’s word is always true. Let God be true and every man a liar.
A flat earther in my office tried to say there are no direct flights between Australia and South Africa. I showed him the sites on the web where one can order and pay for tickets from Sydney to Cape Town on the southern tip of Africa. The flight times were consistent with the distance. He was flabbergasted, and then did the shuck and jive claim that those ticket sales are fake, that nobody ever boards such flights. He also said that nobody is allowed to walk onto the Antarctic because a global military force is there to keep people off that shelf so that they never discover where the canopy meets the ice on the outer edge. He also could never seem to explain how people down at the southern tip of Africa don't end up standing at about a 60 degree angle to the ground under their feet with the largest mass of the earth to their north. He had to claim that gravity is not something science understands, nor can explain...that it is not a property of mass, but rather a supernatural force God enacts according to His own will in the way it works right now. (rolling eyes to the heavens) The array of convenience excuses they apply to try and uphold the flat earth scenario in the face of gross inconsistencies and irrefutable evidences to the contrary, well, I prefer to give glory to the Lord who did in fact create countless numbers of galaxies and stars, haiving named each one. That speaks to a power beyond our ability to begin to try and comprehend. The magnitude of such power speaks well to what the Lord inspired to be written where it says that nature itself declares His majesty and Person.
Did you know if an airliner stops for fuel and nobody gets on or off it is considered a non stop flight
@@billiehanson3686 I can buy a ticket today, just as you can. All you have to do is use the same internet you're accessing right now for the airlines that sell such tickets.
@@billiehanson3686 So, you won't even go and look with your internet access to see the navigation course for the tickets you can guy? That only shows that you're afraid of the truth.
There's a definite psychological conditioning effect at work here. In the case of the Christian/Bible-believing Flat Earthers, their thinking is controlled at the root by the belief that the Bible itself teaches a Flat Earth. Without Bible-savvy Christians around to address the '200 verses that teach a Flat Earth' for them, and with little or no exegetical/hermeneutical training in the Bible themselves, people cultishly fall prey to the claim that the Bible does teach a Flat Earth-when it really doesn't.
Once that premise is set in their minds, then all the rest follows:
1. Any science that teaches otherwise-that the Earth is a rotating spheroid-must be wrong. Many Christian Flat Earthers have a Young Earth Creationist background, which also proceeds following the same path: I understand the Bible to say X, but science says Y, so all of the relevant science must be wrong (rather than: 'Oh, there's a discrepancy here so I'd better re-check both the science and my exegesis to see if a mistake has been made in either.'). And it's only a short step from opposing Darwinism out of loyalty to the Bible to opposing PHYSICAL SCIENCE as well because you think that too is opposed to the Bible-when it's actually not. The phrase "atheistic science" is one that the Young Earth creationists employ too.
What this amounts to most fundamentally is this: Many Christians are prone to misreading the Bible and are not able to TELL that they or someone they look up to and has taught them has done so. They then defend their misreading vociferously (which jibes with "…have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge).
2. For so MUCH of science to be so wrong must mean that there's been a Grand Conspiracy to push the rotating spheroid model instead.
3. Such a Grand Conspiracy of science would require MANY PEOPLE and MUCH INFLUENCE to pull it off, so now we're into the area of conspiracy to control the world-with which, as a Bible student of End Times prophecy and of the New World Order, I have quite a lot of sympathy, actually-and so then you are mixing in bonafide conspiracy with a fake Grand Conspiracy of science and the bonafide conspiracy lends credence to the Flat Earth position, seemingly, because Christians in general who also know their Bibles and what the Bible says about the End Times can see the world going to pieces and moving toward the New World Order every day now in the propaganda media headlines, 'news' stories, and memes. As I see it, the mistake the Christian Flat Earthers make is in not investigating each claim of conspiracy separately on its own merits and evidence. Some conspiracies are fake, but others are genuine. The Bible even tells us Jesus was plotted against and executed due to conspiracy. The Flat Earthers seem to buy into conspiracies wholesale, as a package deal, rather too easily. And it doesn't help that fellow Christians don't always see the deterioration of the world situation, probably leading up to the End Times fairly soon, very clearly.
4. This Grand Conspiracy of science then needs a locus of villainy, like KAOS with Maxwell Smart, which in their case has turned out to be NASA.
5. Once Flat Earth is thought to be biblical, and all relevant science claiming a rotating spheroid Earth contradicts it, then of course every space photo by NASA (or by any other nation's space agency) HAS to be a CGI fake if the Bible is true.
6. In fact, at that point even any firsthand evidence from other source ALSO has to be fake, and so ANY photograph of the horizon that shows curvature at any altitude ALWAYS has to be due to either a 'fisheye' lens effect or to photographic tampering of some kind. FE claims against such photographic evidence are comprehensive, but their equally comprehensive LACK of photographic evidence of, say, the ice wall (because it is alleged no one is ever allowed to travel to Antarctica to check for one there) or of the solid dome firmament is systematically ignored by them.
7. For various reasons, including the obvious observation through one's own backyard telescope that other planets are BOTH spheroidal in shape AND rotating bodies, then all photographs taken by backyard telescopes of other planets also ALL have to be fakes. And once they're fakes, then there's no hydrostatic equilibrium creating such planets due to gravity, and then there's no 'need' for gravity at all either.
And on and on and on it all goes. But it begins with a laudable sense of loyalty to God and to His Word, that's unfortunately misapplied because they are MISREADING and MISINTERPRETING that Word-wholesale-on this particular issue.
Liar, I've looked many times on Expedia. South Africa always needs a stop in the northern Hemisphere on its way to Perth Australia. Hong Kong usually.
The Angels are often called the stars of heaven.
ArielView And Angels and stars are used to describe Gods messengers (his people; evangelists) also. :)
@@angelsomebody2315 well, I was referring to the Ben Elohiym, nor just messengers, or people.
ArielView I understood you. Elohim used throughout many translations for a handful of things. A lot of ppl think it’s usually referring to God, but that’s not true. It can also mean an angel or any powerful spiritual force. ☺️
perpetual eye it might be plain now, but there was nothing plain about it in the original text. During translation It was used in place of a handful of Hebrew words. Same as Lord & Elohim.Please receive this comment with love. I wasn’t trying to correct you... simply build of your point. God bless you!!
@@joshuakainewillett9224 no, not really. I will not agree with that. The heavens and the earth were not created by angels or messengers.
The bible says circle not round..
Correct.
Isaiah 40:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle[H2329] of the earth"
There are two words in hebrew for a circle, and one of them means a spherical ball. Here's the two words according to the strongs' concordance.
H1754
Dure: a circle or ball.
H2329
khoog: a circle, circuit, compass
Isaiah 40:22 uses form H2329 khoog, which means a circle, circuit, compass.
The fact is that the ancient Hebrews DID have a word, "Dure", to describe a spherical ball shape of the earth during the time the Bible was recorded, but that was NOT the word used to describe the earth. Khoog was the word used.
I believe Isaiah 40: 22 refers to the circular horizon.
@@moogle_kthank you. Finally somebody else who actually did a 10 second search. The word for "ball/sphere" is different than the word for "circle". Here is another verse from Isaiah that uses the word "ball".
Isaiah 22:18
18 He will roll you up tightly like a ball
and throw you into a large country.
There you will die
and there the chariots you were so proud of
will become a disgrace to your master’s house.
This is a different word than the one used in Isaiah 40:22 which says,
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
People are really desperate to defend the lies of modern cosmology, but it just can't be done. Here is another one.
Job 38:14
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
And my final question, if Genesis 1 says the earth was created on day 1, and the sun, moon, and stars were created on day 4, what was the earth orbiting around on day 1, 2, and 3?
Look up circle and round in a dictionary.
A circle is round!
If the earth were flat, cats would have knocked everything off of it by now. Thus meoweth Pox, warmer of soft chairs. - original Kitty Pox Version.
😹😹😹😹👍🏼
If it was a ball my dogs would have chewed it flat by now.
Her name is Moxie just so you know
So true!🦊
@@kigollaher5196 so what you’re saying is you ACTUALLY think the earth is flat….
For those of us that believe that the ORDER of creation in Genesis (plants created before the sun, birds created before land animals; sun, moon, and stars created after the Earth) is true, it makes it impossible for us to accept the current stances of many scientific disciplines such as anthropology, cosmology, etc. because they go against the order of creation.
Once certain scientific world views are off the table, and you go back to the Bible, certain other accounts both Biblical and modern you start asking other valid questions, “How will everyone see Jesus at His second coming if the world is a globe?” “How is it that we left Earth to land on the moon and Mars, if the sun, moon, and stars are placed within the firmament/vault/expanse?”
These questions aren’t forming from crazy conspiracy theories, they’re forming from believing the Bible to be true, and a desire to know the truth.
The only difference is that the science debunks the Bible and not the other way around.
@@tezlatower2362 tell that to euler...
Amen to that!!!!!
Rob skiba has some of if not the best biblical flat earth information and is completely in context, the bible support flat earth 100%. Go check out his flat earth debate. Really good one.
You missed the point of this video
I love how RUclips is giving a Wikipedia article as context against flat earthism as if it is better evidence than your explanations lmao.
Actually that Wikipedia article says that the bible indeed portrays a flat earth.
@@Mavors1099 Where is your evidence, troll?
It's because he's a Christian. They probably believed he would promote flerfism thanks to all the other flerfs who make Christians look stupid.
NASA runs Wikipedia
@@According_To_Matt Where'd you get that from?
4 corners = directions. North, South, East, West. Its figurative.
Woketown did a video saying it could be like if you divide a pie into 4 pieces you get 4 corners in the middle. That would also explain how " I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth". But yeah, could also be figurative for directions.
If there are 4 physical corners and they are outside the raqia (strongs 7549) then we will never really know.
In a case like this... Matt 18:3 and Rom 3:4 is good enough for me.
There used to be common phrases like boxing the compass.
THAT'S his point. But Flerfs DEMAND we take EVERYTHING in the Bible literally or we are accusing God of being a liar.
Of course, they seem strangely silent when Jesus DEMANDS we drink His blood and eat His flesh or we are going straight to hell.
The 4 corners verses are not the issue. The Bible clearly teaches the earth does not move and is covered by a firmament, the sun moon and stars are in the firmament.
Pastor Mike agreed to make the question of whether the earth is flat or spherical a separate video, yet he says at 12:23, “…reading cosmology unto a text (in this case Mark 13:27), that’s just about like local geography”. I agree, but he immediately proceeds to debunk the flat earth model using this same text as his basis for claiming “on their view the sun doesn’t actually go to the edge of the earth because the ends of the earth are those edges… but the biblical teaching is that the sun seems to, at least from our perspective, go around us.” The key word here is ‘perspective’, so my advice to Pastor Mike is to stay true to his word letting the Bible speak for itself.
Then, at 18:07, when presenting the definition of ‘earth’ from the DBL, Pastor Mike says, “Maybe you can read that, I don’t know, most of you probably can’t read that (laughing)”. So, I’m not even twenty minutes into this video and he has already lied to me and now berates me. Am I being too sensitive, or am I just expecting more from a Christian who devotes night and day to understanding the Bible?
Nonetheless, I endured listening to this smug pastor to the end finding this video very useful in disassociating the Bible from any cosmology. My advice, instead of pitying those who believe the earth is flat, perhaps investigate for yourselves the 'science' behind modern cosmology. What you are apt to find may astound you. Peace.
I agree, Mike always acts like such a 'know-it-all' and seems to look down at people who don't think like he does. I don't understand why he has so many followers
@CharlieGoy, you are right. This so-called pastor is smug who believes NASA (stems from the Hebrew "nasha" meaning "lies") over our Lord.
I can't i there are "Christians" who are still deceived by the Old Serpent. Keep living in ignorance and stupidity, Pastor Mike
@CharlieGoy, you are right. This so-called pastor is smug who believes NASA (stems from the Hebrew "nasha" meaning "lies") over our Lord.
I can't believe there are "Christians" who are still deceived by the Old Serpent. Keep living in ignorance and stupidity, Pastor Mike.
The science of cosmology is solid, based on measurements and calculations and evidence. I agree we should all question what we are taught, but the science in this case is abundantly clear. The problem isn't pitying Christian flat-earthers, but regretting the damage they are doing to the reputation of our faith. If unbelievers understand science and know the earth is round, Christians who teach others it's flat will reject Christianity as also a lie. They will think that if Christians are teaching something that can overwhelmingly be proven false (flat earth), the rest of our beliefs must also be false. They are doing more damage than good ("anyone who does not help Me gather is really scattering”). They are not gathering souls but pushing them away by attaching a lie to our faith.
Major problem with flat earth christians and biblically proving their faith is this (and you can see it when you scroll the comments and look) : These "flat earth verses" are thrown as an argument over and over again. Usually many verses at the time, and usually not being willing to discuss about interpretation.
Shouldn´t christians be willing to discuss about the Bible and our faith? Not just throw random bible verses, and arrogantly say "well you haven´t been doing your own research?
This are my claims: The Bible is not "flat earth book",
Only very few verses can be interpreted to mean flat earth. All other verses claimed to be flat earth proofs, are not even talking about shape of the earth.
Flat earth believers does not want to test their claims, does not want to discuss with manners about Biblical base of flat earth. (except by throwing verses)
Never discussin about those verses one by one.
Not willing to let scripture interpret scripture or to have 2-3 witnesses for a matter to be established. Jesus had lots to say about the doctrines of man ( interpretation), because often doctrines of man nullify the very word of God ( Mark 7)
@@brendakauffman2222
Would you show me where Bible says that earth is flat, and i will show you where you interprete.
I ask you to be honest to yourself amd answer this. To yourselfnif you don't want ro amswer it here:
QUESTION-> What keeps you from answering to this: " what is your best proof of earth being flat, or testable, repeatable proof of flat earth that you really trust, name ONE"?
To me it looks like there is ZERO evidence that you would trust enough, to be willing to expose it to testing.
GENSIS 1;6 Then God said, “Let there be [e]an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the [f]expanse, and separated the waters which were below the [g]expanse from the waters which were above the [h]expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the [i]expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
16 God made the two [w]great lights, the greater [x]light [y]to govern the day, and the lesser [z]light [aa]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [ab]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [ac]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so
@Innocent Bystander The only folks to know the earth is flat and there is a firmament above us are the ones who research it honestly.
FLAT EARTH BLACK SWAN
- For a different perspective on what the "firmament" is and the waters separated from the waters, have a look into "hydroplate theory."
It does answer a LOT of questions regarding the firmament, the flood and plate tectonics.
Bless you.
Notice he didn’t even touch the firmament... probably because he’s been reading the niv bible and has it in his mind that is just an “expanse”
@Innocent Bystander Yes, because we all know that nobody has secrets (conspiracy), even the bible talks about conspiracies. You have to be less than 10 years old to think conspiracies don't exist. By the way a theory is something which is not a fact like Evolution, flat earth is a fact not a theory. Hope I didn't bruise your brain.
Innocent Bystander
You think it couldn’t possibly be level/flat & yet you feel comfortable believing that people & structures exist upside down at the southern portions of a globe, while only those at the North Pole get to live in an upright world??
Mike didn't talk about the verses that say the Earth doesn't move
I mean he explained why he didn´t.
@Innocent Bystander How so?
Was Jesus an actual lamb too since he's called the lamb of God?
If it's literal and not poetic/out of context or whatever else have you, then it could easily mean that it won't go off course of its orbit, or be wiped out. One needn't worry about those doomsday reports because "the earth shall not be moved." Earth will go on until the end described in scripture
@@arronprestwich2813 My post was a year ago. I was an 80% flat earther now I'm a 50% flat earther.
The majority of people yelling flat earth don't actually read their bibles and instead rely on other non-Bible reading youtubers for information. Good points nonetheless.
Bible says earth is flat, though.
@@Mavors1099 no it doesn't. There is instead poetic language or vague descriptions when there are passages about the four corners. There are some passages that are literal while others are not. There are also passages where the round shape of the earth is mentioned. You just have to separate literal from figurative.
@@mryoyo1234Yes, poetic language that describes a flat earth.
"There are also passages where the round shape of the earth is mentioned", yes , round like a coin, which is the shape of the earth according to the OT
But globe believers read their bible and came to believe we live in a spinning ball universe going around the sun from the bible right?
@@Mavors1099 Yup, it always points to flat earth. Call it poetic if you want. Always flat earth.
IMO, Flat earth belief requires never delving beyond a surface-level understanding of science or even scriptural accounts.
The question "if the bible said the earth was flat, would you believe it?" is a nasty one, because it supposes that the bible would be different, but God's creation would be the same. You could apply this strategy with any lie. For example: "If the bible said Satan is the messiah, would you believe it?". The bible, as God has given it to us, is the truth. You cannot editorialize it with your own (probably false!) ideas and still use its authority as the word of God. It is a subtle form of blasphemy.
Yes,that one really stood out to me also.
I've often thought of that kind of stuff. It's easy to believe in a righteous God Who loves us, but, what if He demanded I do something repulsive? It takes some deep thought to get around that concept.
@@suzum.9713 Repulsive like what?
@A Lucky Man! Right. I happen to agree, but try explaining that to someone who doesn't get it. They will certainly think that we live in a fantasy land.
If it said that then it would not be true... the reason the bible is taken as what it is, is because we can test it. We can literally test these natural claims. We don't believe the bible is true because the bible says it's true...
all the ends of the earth is where earth land meets water. the end of earth is where the ocean begins. simple as that.
People that are into conspiracies don't like simple answers. they like to over complicate everything
@@justinhutchcroft4480 exactly. That's why they have to go try to find a more complicated solution
Ends of earth is where the waters end.
All people who actually think they fly on a ball through space and defend this worldview with all their heart are literally retarded.
@@bradislavgorlamski3040 lmao, what a complete idiot.
The earth is on a foundation and cannot be moved
49:55 Foundations of the Earth
Micah 6: 2; Isaiah 51: 16; Job 28: 4-10
And yet further reading shows that Earth can be “shaken from its place.” So which is it? Literal Bible is a contradiction. Allegorical Bible is more accurate.
Bible is not a science book and earth is not flat.
Since most people can't read biblical Hebrew and Greek there are translation issues involved fairly often too, as well as reading comprehension problems, that are not the fault of the Bible author's text. These issues complicate the task of trying to understand what the Bible author is intending to communicate.
For example, the Hebrew word 'eretz' which is typically translated as "earth" (not capitalized) typically means 'land' or 'territory' or 'country' and/or the people thereof; all the land and/or people everywhere; or 'soil' or 'dirt' or 'ground,' but it DOESN'T mean 'planet' as does the different English usage "Earth" (capitalized, because it's the proper name used to designate our planet). So "earth" ≠ "Earth," but when readers of the English Old Testament see "earth" they sometimes mentally interpolate the meaning "Earth" instead, creating a planetary (shape, disposition in space) conception that the Bible author never intended.
In ancient times a planet was routinely called a "wandering star" because it was always something you saw up in the sky; it was not the ground beneath your feet. In ancient times PLANETS were seen 'up there' but "earth" was the ground 'down there' beneath your feet. However, in modern times, people think of "Earth" in its planetary conception instead, and their mental picture of what the writer is talking about shifts from ground level to at least Earth-orbital distance, and to a conception of our planet in space as one planet among the others in the Solar System. It's that change in people's mental frame of reference which leads them to misunderstand what the Bible writers are talking about when they use the word 'eretz.'
Once that problem has been addressed, then we're facing a slightly different problem: How can the LAND not be moved? Indeed, the Bible itself records several earthquake events and Jesus predicts earthquakes during the End Times as well. Farmers in biblical times plowed up the dirt and so in that sense the "earth" also clearly moves. Here are two possible reconciliations of this problem of the Bible seeming to contradict itself with respect to the land moving vs. not moving:
1. The physical LAND ("earth) is SUBSTANTIALLY immovable most of the time, and provides a reliably solid foundation for buildings, etc. However, earthquakes are an exception which the Bible also acknowledges.
This is, in fact, the way I understand what is being said in 1 Chron. 16:30; in that passage, King David is apparently urging thousands of his countrymen to-
Dance [i.e., frenetically] before Him, all the land;
Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved.
-in a tongue-in-cheek way. I take the sense of his remark to be along these lines: 'Go ahead, everyone! Dance before God together! It will be safe to do so because the world is firmly established and you won't initiate an earthquake if you do!'
2. At least some of the 'immovable land' passages may not be talking about PHYSICAL immobility but about the political/demographic immobility of a COUNTRY (e.g., the LAND or COUNTRY of ISRAEL will not be 'moved' from its place because God has established the Jewish people in it).
@@ChipsAplentyBand thank you for the lesson but you missed the point! God it stable, its STABLE!. Now re- read Genesis 1, slowly; water above and water below. Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
1 Chronicles 16:30: Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 There are many allegorical examples in the bible but there are also historical fact in it as well. It's wonderfully written and doesn't contradict itself, only the incorrect interpretation contradicts the word.
With regards to Isaiah 40:22, circle is translated as " חוּג " which Strongs H2329 defines as a circle, circuit (think race track) or compass (like you navigate with). How does one get to a "sphere" knowing those aspects of the definition of "circle"?
Romans 1:25 ESV
[25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
It takes a lot of pride swallowing to allow yourself to be a flat earther. Luckily I don't think it's a salvation issue. It's the devil's tower of Babel. He confused the language of the Bible with a lie about the globe. Christians are taught to think that the Bible is basically wrong because there is actually no up and down and God isn't literally above us.
Funnily enough, the tower of Babel is probably the Bibles strongest evidence of the truth of our world. If they were just going to build a tower to outer space, why didn't God let them?
How do you get to South Korea traveling west if the earth was flat?
@@otisphoenix1017 traveling “west” is traveling clockwise around the watch face or compass. “East” is counter clockwise.
A sphere is a type of circle like a square is a type of a rectangle.
Or like a cube is a type of square; when you look at it from one side it looks like a square.
And he explains the old Hebrew didn’t have a word specific for a sphere/3D circle. A 3D circle was just called circle.
To get a little more trippy: A Tesseract is a fourth dimensional square, which if someone saw a representation of that, they might describe as a square or a cube.
Anyway I don’t want to put so much focus on the shape of one of God’s creations; it’s much better to focus on the person of Jesus and to learn more about his heart. What is the shape of his heart. ♥️🫀❤️🔥💒🌏
And the Bible says the spirit can help us know the mind of God! He has much more important things on his mind! So much more to explore. Although we should all ask him directly for wisdom on the shape of the world and be willing to accept whatever he would want to show us.
And knowing his heart is what will fill us with love, power and peace.
@@kellydecamp3656 NASA controls the church. In Isaiah 22:18, he uses the word “dur” for ball in that verse. This means he knows the difference between a ball and a circle. Isaiah wasn’t a dummy. He was inspired and literate. Don’t makes excuses for Babylon, be not conformed to this world.
I think it's odd how we know exactly what the word day means in every biblical context except for the first chapter of Genesis.
This big bang -> balls flying through space -> evolution is a massively powerful delusion. I find it amazing that we Christians wouldn't be caught dead believing in big bang and evolution. Buuuuut give us MORE balls spinning and flying through outer space! More... More... More!!!
The WORD said *days*.. and the WORD said *formless*.... mankind knows exactly what those mean. It's only the "educated mind" that knows better.
@@wydopnthrtl How many times do I have to say this?
A GLOBE EARTH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A BIG BANG OR EVOLUTION.
and you can't prove that it does, so stop saying it, troll.
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy I put them together because... that is the official narrative. No?
Here in troll-ville where I went to school I was taught BB -> higgs bosen -> gravity -> molten ball -> surface cooled -> evolution -> people -> belief in a "god" to comfort themselves.
Ok so.. you don't believe in BB or evolution. That's an excellent thing and I stand with you on those two.
So... neither one of us was there in the beginning and we don't have (human) eye witness testimony.
Why is it you believe you exist on a ball that is spinning, and spinning around a sun?
@@space-stig Right or wrong, zealots never give up.
@@wydopnthrtl The whole POINT of this video is to PROVE that that isn't even what the Bible is saying. LISTEN to what Mike says. Those verses are NOT calling the Earth flat in the first place! You are biased and leading millions of young people astray by feeding them easily falsifiable lies! People will leave the faith because the cosmology you preach is forced onto them as essential, and when they find out it isn't true, they will conclude that none of the Bible is true!
So are we supposed to take "fishers of men" literally? Do we have to literally carry a cross everywhere to follow Jesus? Literally don't throw pearls to pigs? There is obvious poetry in the Bible to illustrate and to teach and this flat earth stuff is just nonsense
No one takes the Bible literally or they would have plucked out both there eyes.
😅
So should nothing in the Bible be taken literally?
To not take some of scripture literal is almost like denying the supernatural.
If the Bible states the sun stood still, which it does, I believe it literally means the sun stood still.
@@lilyatangchoDo you still have your eyes?
@@lilyatangcho creating the ridiculous binary of either everything in the Bible is absolutely literal or none of it is, is an absolutely untenable premise. Should I be going out into the street and throwing nets over people?
For the question about Michael Heiser beleiving in a flat earth, I watched a video of his where he had a diagram made to show what it might look like if we were to actually take each passage as literal as possible. But he was playing both sides. He didn’t say it was one way or the other. He was interpreting it from more than just one angle
Michael Heiser was adamantly against FE, but he was honest about what the ancient Hebrews believed, flat, enclosed, stable cosmology. Jason Lisle on the other hand is intellectually dishonest and plays fast and loose with the Bible, claiming it said all along we were on a globe.
He does state his view in his book, “The Bible Unfiltered”, where he laments the hyper-literal readings that lead some to believe it teaches a flat earth. He was vey much on the side of the modern view of the solar system.
He did, however, believe that the predominant view in the ancient near east, including the Hebrews, assumed a flat earth with a dome, and that it came out in some of the poetic symbolism. But, like Mike Winger, he didn’t believe these passages were meant in any way to endorse that view of the world.
@@clintbeacock7663 John Walton for example, always reminds us to look for historical context when reading these passages. The Bible message comes through even though we are witnessing it through the author/author's understanding of the world, i don't know why is it so hard for flat earthers to concede this.
Nothing wrong with Michael Heizer showing the possible interpretations. The amplified Bible does it. Science needs to be more honest about the limitations and the fakery of their evidence for the globe. Just as we don’t have hard and fast answers About how to interpret everything in scripture, we don’t have hard and fast proof of either globe or flat from what I can see and I have looked at so many more facets than the average bear.
The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth
century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31]
The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32]
Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47).
Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.
I always took "corners" to mean directions. In Revelations, it says "four winds" in the same "corners" verse. We usually think of the four winds as coming from the compass directions.
"Corner" can also be translated as "quarter". It's not a common meaning, but it should be considered.
Thank you Mike. We won't be able to show people the errors of bad thinking unless we take their thinking as seriously as they do
Bad thinking, is when you believe there is only one way to think that is good, and that is your way of thinking.
@@Tigerex966 Absolutely 100% true wisdom.
@@screwball1010 👍
Spinning ball is pretty bad thinking in my opinion. Blind trust in the elite of this world.
@@Tigerex966 there is one good way, God's way
Funny how when the scripture says things that people refuse to wrap there head around and say it means something else but when it easy on your mind they will say it means exactly what it says . Quit manipulating scripture because you don’t want to accept it .
Mike, it troubled me when you said even if the Bible said the Earth is flat you wouldn't believe it. Even Globe earthers should be worried. Would you believe in Flat Earth if Jesus taught it?
I've watched a lot of Mike's videos and it seemed off that he would make this comment. It's disturbing to hear that and I hope it was just misguided comment and not what he truly believes.
@@WilliamDeanIII I hope so as well.
The earth is round, though... I believe in the Bible because I think it leads me to truth. If I had incontrovertible evidence that it was flat-out wrong (lol) on such a basic thing, I'd reconsider my search for truth. If you're willing to believe something that is evidently false then you can't honestly say you care about the truth.
A lot of this video troubled me. Very disappointed at how he approached this.
If the Bible said dogs have wings would you believe it??
4 years late. Thank you so much. Thoughtful, thorough, polite. I can confidently explain to others that the Bible does not teach a flat earth.
Don’t get hung up on the term flat earth, it’s true the Bible doesn’t mention flat earth but the Bible does say the earth does not move. The Sun, moon and stars were created after the earth and were placed in the firmament. The firmament is a solid structure holding back water. Yahuahs throne is above the firmament. The Sun and moon stopped in the sky for a day. The Sun moved backwards for Hezekiah. All the stars will fall to earth in the end times. The Bible says all these things, it is not out of context, it is clear and in context. Believe the Word or don’t believe, but don’t pretend it’s all allegory.
You should probably do more research, because it certainly does teach a fl@t earth, covered by a dome, with heaven above and hell below.
@@Matthew-307 So which of the points in the video are you arguing against? They appeared pretty sound to me. I am happy to hear your side, though.
Mike leaves out most of the verses that show the earth is motionless and fixed on pillars with a solid firmament above. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat but it does say it doesn’t move, it says the sun moon and stars are in the firmament. It says the firmament is solid and holds back water. It says the sun moon and stars move in a circuit over the still earth. Earth may be flat on top and round underneath us, who knows?? But the Bible clearly says the earth is the center of creation, and this is it, no space, no other planets.
@@wardrobegirl67
"Mike leaves out most of the verses" Which ones?
"but it does say it doesn’t move" where?
"It says the firmament is solid and holds back water" No, it does not
"It says the sun moon and stars move in a circuit over the still earth" Yes, from our perspective. This also means that the sun really sets below the horizon, which most FE models deny.
"the earth is the center of creation" Yes, from our perspective.
"and this is it, no space, no other planets." This is false. The bible does not say that.
Thanks for sharing!
You going to refute over 200 scriptures? You really want to believe the the elites?
List those 200 scriptures.
Great video. BUT to the other commenters: None of this matters if the earth is flat, round or a pear. Jesus Christ paid for all of your sins on the cross, if you believe in him you shall have eternal life. Nothing you have done can outweigh his payment for your sins. Be humble and submit to Christ in all you do, argument can be loving and gentle as Mike has displayed. We must always keep our own pride in check. The sinful voice in us all screaming "I'm right!!!"
Why would you even try to discuss this with people who can’t even understand what a figure of speech is? They will just go on believing against all logic.
Because flat earthers are good for two things: They make the rest of us laugh and feel smarter at the same time.
The earth cannot be flat because you cannot fit the places we know and the distances between them on a flat plane. They fit perfectly on a sphere.
The phases of the moon(or thr shadow of earth upon it)undeniablydemonstrates the shape of the earth also.
I haven't heard this point addressed lately.
except...when you can see the moon and the sun in the sky at the same time right? How is the earth casting a shadow on the moon when the sun and moon are both visible in our sky many times throughout the year? I'm not a full fledged 'flat earther' but I do believe there are 'facts' we've inherited from that need to be questioned more thoroughly. There are other points that would refute a globe-model earth as well (lasers visible from many miles away that should be hidden behind the curve of the earth, why don't lakes experience the same tidal patterns as oceans, and many more).
The phases of the moon aren't caused by the earth's shadow. Only during a lunar eclipse is it claimed that the earth's shadow is on the moon.
@@hoopsonfire17 No there isn't. He's mistaken. The phases of the moon are caused by it's location in it's orbit of earth and the side of the moon that isn't facing the sun. It's EASY" to see clearly on a drawing.
the phases of the moon absolutely blow away the FE model. According to your model, the phases would change throughout the day and night and depending on where you are on the earth, you would see the moon in a completely different phase from someone else in a different location.
Also the only way you could have a full moon is when the moon is opposite the sun and on the other side of the disc which would only occur in daytime, when the sun is on our side of the earth and the moon on the dark side of the disc.
I know what you're thinking, well what about when the moon is overhead, and the sun is on the far side of the disc. Well, then those in the northern part, or center of the disc, would only see a gibbous moon, while those more underneath the moon would see a half-moon, and those towards the outside of the disk would see a crescent moon. This is all because you want the sun and moon to be close to the earth, within the dome. Just another example of trying to solve one problem with your model, only to create several more.
"all you have to do is keep reading" -good line rang true to me
You're only going to find that spinning earth verse if you keep reading all the way into the book of Mormon.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I am still looking for a cogent discussion of this video. Kind of pathetic for your side, skippy.
Yes, read the whole Bible, the earth is motionless, set on pillars and under a firmament.
This issue with Dean Odle teaching a flat earth from a biblical perspective...
"Pastor" Dean Odle received his ordination from a Nigerian seminary, however, the Nigerian government has shut down this seminary as an illegal diploma mill. I question his qualifications as a pastor and, just like these shady doctors who get their doctorates from Caribbean medical schools, I wouldn't trust either one.
Did his Nigerian Seminary education include a gold or diamond inevitable mine?
Needing a diploma to preach the Gospel is the silliest modern day practice we follow. No man can give you the authority, God only.
@@dylangoldman2310
Do you want random people teaching false doctrine without some form of training on how to interpret it exegete Scripture? Most people want sound doctrine, not Jim Jones.
@@OGKenG plenty of ordained ministers teach false doctrine. There are many interpretations of scripture. I guarantee I don't agree on everything theological as you do. It's up to people to use their brains. A school or institution are not the authority on the correct interpretations of scripture. This is literally why Jesus chose unschooled men to be his apostles. Because the institutions are power hungry and wack as hell.
Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
As a classical artist, I can confirm that your buddy is handcrafting those mugs and I LOVE it. He clearly has his own kiln-or personal access to one, and he's hand glazing those mugs with underglaze and outer glaze. They aren't shipped in from China, those must be hand made labors of love. Thank you for your solid teaching!
You didn't address the "4 corners of the earth" flat earthers use in their bible confirmation. For me, it merely means N,S,E,W...not literal 4 corners on a flat surface.
I mean that and even flat earth models are circular and therefore don't have corners so..
He did. He had a whole section about it
45:41
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy Thank you! I watched the entire video so I don't know how I missed that part!! Maybe I had a distraction come in and I didn't hear that. Thank you so much for giving me the time stamp!!
Four corners of the earth = N•E•S•W
Directional
flat earthers disliked that
That’s not a corner though..you do realize..?
@@paulk9188 that’s the point, it’s not supposed to be a corner
@@kofibonsu8466 yea, they are called cardinal directions..google is your friend
@@paulk9188 we know they are not literal corners
To take the words "four corners" to mean the earth is flat, also should mean the earth is square. You can't have corners if the earth is a disc shape.
That's why we have boxing rings. 😅😂
You have the circle of the Earth within a square and a dome above
@@RB-sz9gv so the earth is in a box
@@BeccainHawaii in biblical cosmology God‘s spirit moved upon the face of the deep, or the waters, and, according to Job, the face of the deep is frozen. The second heaven, or firmament, divides the water from the waters, so there is water below and water above, but as far as the make up of what we would call the universe, we do not know.
@@RB-sz9gv 👍 , Isaiah 34:4 KJV - And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Hey Mike much of what you are doing in this video is interjecting your own 21st century scientific understanding into the text. Not sure if you brought this up or not, but Dr. Michael Heiser who is a genius on this stuff (multiple PHD'S in Ancient Near Eastern stuff), who is not a flat earth believer at all, would very easily refute much of what you are saying based on the fact that you cannot talk about biblical cosmology without taking into account that the OT was written in an ANE context! The biblical worldview as well as EVERY OTHER major civilization believed the earth was flat. This is undeniable. This is the persecutive the Biblical writers wrote from. They had no concept of a globed earth at all. Nobody did during that time.
I think your history is a bit skewed. You do know that many geocentrists also believed in a spherical Earth?
Also, what does ANE stand for? Us dummies aren't as smart as you.
liberty research ANE stands for Ancient Near East. If you look at all of the major civilizations that existed during the time of the biblical text and that existed before the time the biblical text was written (ancient Sumeria for example) the common cosmological worldview was that the earth was flat. Any basic research will show you this.
My whole point to Mike was that this was the worldview of the biblical writers. Therefore, to interpret portions of Scripture from a modern scientific perspective is putting something into the mind of the original author that wasn't there. It wasn't there because they had no clue of the scientific understanding and knowledge that we have today. Geocentrisity was a concept and idea that didn't exist 2500-4000 years ago.
@@thetat2dpreacher Why don't you or ANY of the flerfers in the comments refute individual points from the video?
liberty research lol um I am not a flat earther bro. I feel like my comments are very easy to understand and explain where I am coming from. I will try one more time and then I will leave it - Mike's point is that the Bible does not speak about a flat earth. My point is that it does because of the historical context the Bible was written in. Biblical hermeutics 101 says in order to interpret a passage, you have to examine the context it was written in, not the context of the person who is reading it today. Back then EVERYONE believed the earth was flat because that's all they knew. So to examine a biblical text with a 21st century worldview is not how to exegete a passage.
@@thetat2dpreacher I didn't say you were a flat earther. I think you are incorrect about the geocentricity claim. Simply stated, a geocentrist believes the Earth is the center of creation/Universe. You are not giving any specifics. I am not seeing how what Mike says is out of context. Give examples, bro.
I also think alot of Christian do not know how to study the Bible, but they believe it. When they see or are shown these verses that at first appear to say earth is flat, they knowing the earth is round, begin to doubt there faith in the Bible. That scares them, so they decide to believe the earth is flat and that Satan has deceived the world because in their mind, if it is round, then the Bible can not be trusted. The reality is, they do not understand how to interpret what they are reading in context and do not know how to look things up in the Greek and Hebrew. So many things in the Bible that if you apply today's understanding to, you will get the wrong view of what it is trying to teach you.
I know quite a few people that have left religion because they believed the Bible and science couldn't coincide, it's easy to have that viewpoint especially with nutjob flatearthers making such an effort. There efforts are killing christianity sadly. I myself have suffered a lot of doubt because I'm not someone to dismiss science especially when it's obvious but I've overcome and found new meaning in christ. Sadly many young will not do this and will simply become nonreligous.
This is a very underrated comment lol. I think thats exactly right. Teaching hermenutics/exegesis/exegetical fallacies should be common practice in the church, but obviously its not.
How do you explain people like me? I was an agnostic my whole life until I *very deeply* studied the Globe VS Flat debate from a scientific perspective & realized Earth is actually flat & stationary... and I verified this in real life beyond any doubt in every imaginable way.
This then led me to the Bible, as I was told the Bible teaches a Flat & stationary Earth when interpreted correctly (and modern day Bible scholars only believe otherwise because they're reading the presupposition of Heliocentrism into the text without justification, as a result of deceptions like the fake moon landing, etc).
So, I was a Flat Earther *prior to* being a Christian. It's the primary way that God lead me to the truth of Christianity.
There are an enormous number of people like this. Honestly, I've talked to so many Flat Earthers that had a similar experience. I'd say Flat Earth has turned more atheists / agnostics into Christians than the rest of Christian apologetics combined over the last decade. That's not even an exaggeration.
@lightbeforethetunnel hi, I'm currently looking into this for the first time. Since cosmology is such a big deal when it comes to globe vs. Flat model, I was hoping you could point me to FE research that explains more in depth about navigation and star patterns like the North Star + Southern Cross, and also how the moon phases and lunar eclipse happen. Currently the globe model seems best to explain these, but I want to know what the best FE resources have on the topic since Genesis 1 says these (the sun and moon) will be for days and months, seasons and years, etc. It seems like a very important part of God's creation for us is to be able to calculate all this for ourselves. Any FE names or research relating to cosmology specifically would help if you know any
@cora5525 I can share my thoughts from things I have read but I don't support the FE theory. I have heard their biblical arguments and that's what I address. Let me give you a good example.
Job 38, if taken out of context seems to describe the earth is flat. The image the FE puts in your mind is one if a ring being pressed down on way or clay, to form a seal. But that is not at all what the is being said. In fact, those verses have NOTHING to do with shape of earth, it isn't trying to describe earth at all. Read this in full context.
assage
Resources
Hebrew/Greek
Your Content
Job 38
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
Here it talks about dayspring, the mourning sun.
13 That it (sun light from rising sun)might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
How does a rising sun have anything to do with the wicked being shaken out? It's a metaphors, the light reveals truth, it's the light unto our path so we know good from evil. This is talking about how God's word reveals truth, the evil can not stand in the light of God.
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
The SEAL is TURNED. This means it is a NOT a flat seal, it's a Cylinder that is rolled over the clay, and it produces a image. That's the picture you should have of this seal, it's a Cylinder rolling over clay. The image left behind is raised up, it stands out, it becomes 3 dementional with debth. Think about the rising sun, the light first hits the highest mountain peeks. They stand out, the light reveals the depth of the earth, the mountains cast shadows. God's light, His truth reveals in a similar way, we know good and evil. The wicked can not hide in the light of God's truth anymore than a mountain can hide from the sun, or the raised image from the seal turned on clay, it stands out, it's pronounced.
If anything this verse is saying we are on a rotating earth that is Cylinder shaped. But it isn't, that's not the take away, not what God is trying to do. That's not the context.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
His arm is broken, it stuck out , was raised, became visible and the wicked are defeated bc they can't hide.
The garment is a similar metaphor, the seems of a garment are folded, they stick up higher than the rest, like a raised arm.
There is much to say but that's alot. Point is, the FE Bible verses are all like this, they FE shape the verse to fit their narrative instead of allowing the verse to shape their narrative. They look for verses that can seem ti support their beliefs, thats not how you read scripture. You do not read it to support your belief, it is supposed to shape your belief. If it doesn't, u change the belief, not the verses. Thoughts?
If you believe in a globe, you believe the stars are giant Suns, far away. In revelation, the end days, the stars will fall to the earth, how is this possible, why didn't you cover this?
He talked about stars in Biblical times as many things in the sky like the Sun, moon, planets, meteors, comets, etc. Weren't you listening?
It's a VISION. Yes, literal stars are far away suns.
The inverse square law concerning light tells anybody... there is no possible way they are that big and that far away.
@Goggle products That is pure bovine scatology. Your "satellite dish" point (with which you open your argument!) is absolute garbage and completely untrue. Stop lying.
Not all the lights are stars in the sky, that’s like saying ‘shooting stars’ are actually stars. The bible is true, Gods word and every element of what it means to say is true. But..... it was also written to both us and people thousands of years ago, it was written with a human perspective with stuff they could understand. I believe god created everything, Eden, genesis, the flood (potentially regional but either way it happened). But the bible was also written so they could understand too.
I do not (so very very 100% strongly) believe in flat earth theory- and I'm just binging older Mike Winger videos- but I LOVE that I still learned so much! About the signet rings, the seals, the greek word regarding earth/land, etc. I also appreciate his kindness and the respect in which he discusses the topic.
It’s not a theory.
Your spinning water ball theory of earth is a lie in your deceived mind. Ask God to show you the truth 😊
Many seals of Joseph have been found, all flat !
If I were to be perfectly honest here as a Christian, I'd have to say that I do not get a spherical globe spinning around in an endless void of space from reading scripture with strong's. I don't subscribe to the flat model either, though in no doubt in my mind the Bible seems to be telling us, in no uncertain terms, that we live on some sort of still (as in stationary), levelled plane, enclosed system.
Leviticus 19:27 says our heads have corners. The Bible giving spherical objects corners. is nothing but a Elizabethian language issue. In modern English we would say sides or edges of our head. Yet in old English they came the sides corners. 🤷🏼♂️
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha Easy English > "Don't cut the sides of your head (hair)" quite straight forward 🤷♀️
Leviticus 19:27 used
Corners/corner: פּאה - pê'âh
corner, edge, side, quarter, extremity
CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT
Exodus 27:2 used
Corners/Corner: פּנּה - pinnâh
(of square objects)
Isaiah 11:12 used
Corners/corner: כּנף - kânâph
wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt
English sometimes murk the water when it comes to diving deep into scripture, it's much better to read with the original languages in my opinion.
I have gone throughout the whole bible in regards to the description of the realm we live in and it seems to describe something else other than the standard of globe and flat.
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha I don't see you using scripture to support that thought. It takes 2-3 witnesses for a matter to be established. Proper biblical exogesis uses scripture to explain scripture, not man's theology and thoughts to explain it away.
Amen.
I've come to this conclusion as well. The same in my early days with the LORD and half my friends had scripture for Calvinism and the other, Armenism. I was like great 🤷🏿
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. It is a heavy book, so your must be Strong to carry it. And after you carry it from point A to point B you are Exhausted.🤣🤣📖📖
Haha “strong” to carry it
Some people are strongly deluded from it. Looking at their microwave and license plates to confirm a rapture date. It’s ludicrous
Lol
@@FirefighterAliveJC - Isn't it also divination?
@@FirefighterAliveJC It is such a valuable resource---so sad that it is misused.
So if we are to take the corners of the earth literally, then when Jesus says he is living water, is he Dasani or Poland Spring? He says he is bread. Potato or whole wheat? Need to take things into context
Hey, if Jesus is the bread of life, is he gluten free? My wife has celiacs disease. So she’s allergic to the body of Christ.
Was Jesus' body unleavened though 😳
😂
@@MajorTomFisher excellent point !!!
@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 I can always count on seeing your name for a rebuttal. You have just as much faith in science as a Christian has in a Sky daddy.
most of the time that I talk to a flat earther...it becomes clear to me that this is their gospel...not Jesus crucified. But the earth is flat. That is their focus. That is their God. That is what they love. Bottom line, I see no reason to argue this point at all. There are biblical points I believe in strongly about that I don't debate because they are not a part of the gospel nor anything worth paying any sort of attention to (at least for now).
The reason the this subject is important to me is because all the athiests I meet tell me that the universe is ever expanding and billions of years old. Where is "the invisible man in the sky" they say. "You trust a fairy tale book over science?" They ask. They mock God by saying things like "if He does come back we will escape His wrath by going to another planet." They believe in extraterrestrial life forms simply because of the "probability of life in an ever expanding universe". They claim "if we evolved from nothing why wouldn't another species do the same in a galaxy far far away?" They claim to have images of galaxies light years away that were taken by a telescope in space. These images are used to convince people that the galaxy is unfathomably large containing endless possibilities for life outside our earth.
All of these points are used to discredit God's word, and trying to conform the Bible to fit the claims of man only destroys the credibility of the Bible and fuels their argument against it.
@@collinweeks6322Well put , and I can demonstrate a flat and stationary earth.
@@collinweeks6322 Yes but the answer to those points for sure isn't "The earth is flat and we're the only ones living in the universe". There are billions of planets, you think God only created one? You think we are the only living beings in this universe? Just because God created earth at some point in this time, doesn't mean he didn't create civilisations on other planets before us. Angels exist in the Bible, what are those if not "extraterestrial" (outside of earth- Terra) creatures?
Just because you don't see something, or fail to comprehend it easily doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Most of this nonsense flath earth theory is based on information gathered by senses. Your major points is that "it's obvious" when you look at the sky or see a ship in the distance with a camera, disregarding that that ship was just a small ship that didn't pass the horizon, and if you were to look at a big ship that passed the line, you would only see the top of it.
You disregard any solid evidence and stick to your stubborn belief despite being proven wrong. This is ego, desire to be right, confirmation bias, nothing more. And information gathered by senses can be decieving especially if you don't understand it. Most of the people, thank God, managed to understand those concepts from a young age, sadly adults that want to believe something, will find a way to do it even when it's outright ridiculous.
@@Heracles_FE No you can't. Because it doesn't exist. Everything from the movement of the stars, that you can see clockwise/coutnerclockwise depending on which pole you watch them from, the circadian cycle, eclipses and every other point you probably heard already but refuse to accept because you choose to lie to yourself because to you it makes sense that you look forward with your eyes and see a flat surface. You are like children that believe only what they see because they didn't understand how it works.
You claim you are a few select ones that see the "truth" when the irony is you got there by not understanding the basics of your reality and undermine the credibility of the Bible while doing so, because you take verses out of context to support your ridiculous claims.
@HandOfFreedom the Bible says the earth is flat. what we imagine are "aliens" are actually angels and demons. God sits above our earth, not some planet far far away. God sent His only begotten son to die for our sins. Jesus was not born on a planet lightyears away, he was born here on earth. God walked in the garden with Adam here on this earth. What do you say to Revelation 6:13 "and the stars in the sky fell to earth". Are they going to fall from 28 billion light years away? Is that "falling" at that point? If stars are massove like the sun, how will they fall to earth? There wouldn't be enough room on earth for one star let alone billions upon billions upon billions of stars.
Who can trust a monetized preacher who leans on his own understanding? I’ve never seen so many ad breaks. Do your own research. The Bible says earth was created before the sun, the earth can not be moved, the earth is a circle not a sphere, there is a dome that god sits above. Space is a religion. I choose to believe gods word not man.
I didn’t know about the amount of adds I don’t see them But I’m not going to watch this video now. Seems he’s only out to help himself and deceive others.
If you do your own research, who's there to tell you that you did mistake in your research?
The lone wolf researcher is just going to read the views that support their own beliefs.
You say you believe Gods word, but you might actually believe your words as Gods words.
Flat earthism is form of Gnosticism.
Flat earthers believe they have gained secret knowledge from Bible verses that regular Christians have not, causing feelings of superiority.
I guess when Joshua commanded the sun to stop, the writer got confused and meant to say the earth stopped rotating LOLOLOLOL
@@nottodayjustin666 define miracle.
@@TheEarthHistorysConfusing no, he explained the context behind the verses.
In Genesis, he made the earth then he made the sun and moon on the third day
Correction, Sun moon and stars were on the 4th day. God made Ligjt the FIRST day, the Waters divided on the 2nd day, grass, herb yeilding seeds and the fruit tree yeilding fruit on the 3rd day. Sun, Moon and Stars weren't present till the 4th day!
Sir Isaac Newtown wasn't the first to come up with the idea the earth is spherical. It was taught through the Kabbalah via the Zohar and the Talmud some 1,500 years prior to Isaac. But, it only goes deeper...Isaac Newton was heavy into the Kabbalah where he derived his concepts from. Proponent of the cabalist doctrine of the Jews known as the Zohar.
A quick Google search of "Issac Newton Kabbalah" will lead you to the truth. This Spherical earth doctrine was taught amongst the Cabalist Jews of Mysticism and Dark Arts long before Issac Newton.
He is a God of order!! If sun was the center The Lord Jesus would have made it first
So what?
Go test for curvature and try and prove the earth spins... then read your bible again and hit your knees pray and ask the Lord to to open your eyes and show you the truth.
Devan Velo very interesting
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved" Psalm 104:5
That doesn't mean that it is flat though. That just means that there is no power out there that can destroy God's creation. The earth is set on a strong foundation like when you build your house on rocks instead of sand.
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha shalom, no meaning it does not move it is very clear.
@@Equalshares right there is no power that can move earth. God is sovereign
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha Wouldn't the sun be moving the earth along its orbit be moving the earth?
@@braydynniewiadomski5454 that verse is not saying physically move the earth. It means that earth can never be destroyed. Only God is powerful enough to destroy the earth. But the Bible clearly tells us. God did not create the earth in vain. He created it to be inhabited. So there is no power out there that can destroy our move earth off of its foundation.
Real question for those that believe in a flat earth. Why does it really matter what shape the earth is? It has absolutely nothing to do with salvation in any way. If we die and find out we were wrong, we were just wrong about one more thing … that will again, mean nothing there. I’m not saying truth doesn’t matter at all -truth does matter - but when it’s not about salvation, why divide?
Because it's a satanic psyop to discredit the Bible and Christianity. It was the atheists pushing evolution in the 1800's that falsely accused Christians and the Bible of teaching the Earth is flat. It of course failed as NOBODY believed that.
Now, 150 years later, suddenly these "Christians" have taken up Satan's cause and are blaspheming God's name and His word. This is an excellent way to keep people from the Kingdom; tell them they have to deny basic reality to become a Christian.
Jesus bodly claimed He IS Truth. Rejecting Truth, is rejecting Christ, Himself!
2 Thess 2:10-11 is written for them.
and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
Satan lied about the nature of the world as his counter to the Tower of Babel. God confused their language so they couldn't build their tower straight up to heaven. Satan confused our language by making man believe that the Bible is not true and heaven isn't real. On the globe, God gets farther away every day. Do you believe that?
If the earth is flat (which it is), and Governments and Authorities are collectively agreeing to lie to the public about it- it will only help Satan's cause to Mass Manipulate the population of Earth.
If the Earth is Flat( which it is), and it was uncovered to the world that there were literal ends to it, and we are being lied to, it would be a great sign that Earth was created, and not just the result of some random big bang.
I was led to God and scripture in a big way through my study and research of the immune system, and my findings of yeast.
I found that modern science and medicine do not credit enough the nuisance yeast is, and the role it plays in many ailments.
I began to believe the world was lying to me.
My flat-earther MIL strongly believes that it matters. She is one that thrives on conspiracy theories and secrets. I think its about being a "hidden truth" in the Bible and discovering things to seem more holier than thou. She will literally raise her voice and get very upset when you try to debate her on this. That's my experience with a flat-earther.
I know this was a long time ago, but in would love to share this on the SciManDan channels. He is an atheist and uses those Christians who get it wrong to discount Christianity and it makes me mad. Would love to hear about the firmament
It’s because he can’t find lots of wrong with Christian’s who get it right, so he just uses bad examples
How are going to derive your conclusion from a scientific perspective when Yahuah believes that man's wisdom is foolishness.
the conclusions in this video come from the Bible. What are you blabbing about?
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy His conclusion isn't unbiased nor inclined to what the text truly is saying. It is clear that his logic is based on his own preconception that the earth is based on today's scientific orientation. If you were to be honest to what the scriptures read, you would without a doubt conclude that the earth is stable and the sun, the moon and the star is always what moves. Can you show me where in the bible declares that the earth is what moves?
@@pasarell2222 I believe 'the circle of the Earth' in Isaiah 40: 22 means the ecliptic of the Earth's orbit around the Sun.
Joe Pasarell I agree with you 100 percent ... honestly anyone who truly knows what the Bible says and denies that i believe is blatantly lying
@@andrejones2147 Have you watched the video?
"anyone who truly knows what the Bible says and denies that i believe is blatantly lying"
Wow, I don't know if that is a typo, but it sounds AS STATED extremely self-absorbed.
The ends of the earth literally just mean the coast. I mean, we have placed called 'Land's End,' on the coast.
“I know I’m gonna get reamed…” I love you Pastor Winger. You often make me laugh, while teaching the Word of God to us. That’s a good gift to have. Praise the Lord. Amen 🙏.
Blessings y’all.
I can see most of Catalina Island almost down to the shore line from the Malibu pier easily on a clear day with a pair of binoculars. According to the curve calculator, 800 feet from North to over 1400 feet in the South of the bottom half of the island should not be visible. Yet it's obvious I can see almost down to the water line.
I too have made long distance observations. Seeing too far is my #1 science proof of FE because anyone can do it for themselves.
@@wydopnthrtl 'it's a mirage'
I was expecting to find some strong refutations because many of your other teachings are sound, but this was not convincing. None of your "irrefutable evidence" here is actually irrefutable.
To go into specific detail. Genesis only the dry land was called earth. Therefore the ends of the earth is the ends of the dry land. Furthermore there may well have been four corners of dry land before the continents were separated. What you can't get from bible verses is a spinning ball orbiting the sun
The four ends of the Earth are borrowed from Akkadian/Sumerian traditions. They called one corner the Zagros mountains, for instance, but they very well knew that there were people beyond the mountains. They traded with them!
Bruce Askin What you don't get from the Bible is that the formula for water is H2O.
@@vanorum3804 on this subject waters is often referred to as masses of people, however in genesis 1 water means water, because at that moment there were no people.
Wrong, the 4 corners of the earth verse you are referencing is talking about the major powers of the earth at the time it was written. Its a metaphor.
Melburys Brick
true
When you look up at the full moon at night, is it not circular? Not a square, or a triangle. So when it says that God looks down and sees a circle, it is an accurate description. When the scriptures talk about the 4 corners of the earth, the context is talking about direction... north, east, west, and south.
Describing the earth as a circle is not an accurate description. 4 corners of the earth is talking about 4 corners of the earth. That's it.
What I find most insulting is the idea that biblical inspiration was adapted to the "common understanding of the people of the time", as though modern cosmology is difficult to understand (it isn't, we can reduce it to a few pictures that school kids understand); or that God couldn't be bothered to correct their erroneous understanding of His creation, despite the fact that the Bible is dedicated to giving God glory FOR the creation. What is most egregious about this is that our so-called "modern" cosmology WAS present at the time of the biblical authors - in India. The ancient Hindu sages already had this idea of cycles of billions and billions of years, of a gradually evolving creation, of God as an impersonal force rather than a person, of innumerable other worlds, etc. So if the ancient Hindus could figure it out, why couldn't God have inspired the biblical authors to say, "Hey, these guys have it right"? Seriously, it's not hard to write "God made the world slowly over vast eons of time, and there are innumerable other worlds containing innumerable other souls." That's not a difficult concept to grasp or a difficult thing to write. If the Hindus managed it, why not the Israelites? I believe the ancient Hindu / modern secular cosmology is of demonic inspiration; it manifests the devil's hatred of the created world, and is an attempt to make it seem insignificant and meaningless, robbing God of the glory of creation.
What I find most insulting is the lie that flat earth was a thing before about 1850 AD. The question before then was whether the center of the solar system (ie, the Universe) was the Earth (geocentrism) or the Sun (heliocentrism)?
The Globe only came from the 1500 ad Jesuits and the bad guys lol came up with model to take people away from god very successful lie. The Bible clearly says flat coming from a none believer 4 years ago. Sad how guys like Mike winger try to cherry pick a few texts when there's over two hundred. The globe has none why?
But the Bible written based on God’s word, so how would it be wrong regardless of the time it was written in?
@@velinix7915 "Wrong" depends on whether something intends to address something -- if it doesn't, it can't be wrong. One of my pre-grad school literature professors used an example I still like: is Joyce Kilmer's poem "Trees" wrong about botany? No -- because it wasn't written to say anything about botany. So also, the first Creation story can't be wrong about science because it didn't care about science. And it makes no sense to think that God would have bothered to try to tell ancient people about modern science; in fact thinking He would is astoundingly arrogant, as though our science is totally correct -- after all, in the middle ages people thought that Genesis fit the belief that everything was made up of just four elements, which was their science.
@@libertyresearch-iu4fyYou are not informed buddy. The Torah is flat , and Yashua came here and did not correct the understanding . It wasn't until the middle ages that the church went globe , and it is only in translations post 1200 are any changes to the obvious original intent were made. People like you and this guy use church rewrites to support original intent like you are literally wetoded.
Mike i appreciate your scholarly attitude towards this and commending a more accurate study of scripture. I didnt know about reading the Bible in context till about 3 years ago, and it has made a lot of difference. It is very common to read what we want in scripture because unfortunately a lof of churches dont teach the correct way to read the bible. I used to think I could just take a verse and apply it to my life. It can cause a lot of false doctrine including prosperity gospel.
God bless you for real.
When taken in context the Bible supports a stationary Earth over a flat plane. In no way does it support the heliocentric model. The video is biased from the start. You have to turn every verse about the Earth into a figure of speech in order to avoid this truth. Either way a spherical Earth isn’t taught, not even in Isaiah.
@Innocent Bystander The globe is no different than evolution, it took some time for that nonsense to become clearer to those who fear the Lord but in the end those who want the truth will dig for it as they do precious stones, gold and silver. It's not going to be given to you on a silver platter but in the end you will stand in awe of the lies which we have believed namely: EVOLUTION, BIG BANG, AGE OF THE EARTH (MILLIONS/BILLIONS OF YEARS), NEW BIBLE PERVERSIONS (TEXTUAL CRITICISM), ALIENS, and on and on and on....
The lies are real as told by Jesus Christ Himself:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
@Innocent Bystander I rest my case. Your belief in evolution even as a theory is contrary to Gods word friend.
Read the Bible properly and in context *100% proves* that God has declared the earth to be flat, stationary, set upon pillars enclosed by the Firmament, with Heaven above, Hell below, Waters over the Firmament, the sun that revolves around us, the moon that is and gives her own light, etc. etc. There are literally hundreds of biblical verses that assert such things.
In contrast, *zero* verses support the heliocentric globe model whatsoever. So the million dollar question is: why are people like you and Mike siding against what scriptures actually say? What is your biblical basis for doing that?
@Innocent Bystander No, the globe is definitely *not* a fact, but rather, a Luciferian and vehemently anti-biblical myth. You assert otherwise solely because you've been indoctrinated to do so. But here's the problem: the Bible itself opposes your beliefs. So why do you refuse to take God at His Word?
Use your videos at our Bible Studies! We love your approach and can see the effort you have put in to do the presentations. Bless you, from South Africa
Doesn't the fact the seasons are reversed north and south of the equator refute a flat earth as well?
This is a great point.
When you look at the FE model the seasons make perfect sense.
@@RTTRn If you believe the sun moves in an imperfect way.
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy well i dont
@@RTTRn Well, how do account for the simultaneous longer days on the inner pancake and shorter days on the outer pancake, and vice versa. Or how do you account for the simultaneous solar analemma at different angles around the pancake, or how do you account for the sun circling the pancake at all [Hint: I need more than "God made it that way".] at a measly 3000 mile elevation?
Please answer this, does the moon have its own light?
Devan Velo Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights, the sun to rule the day, and the moon to rule the night. Yes, the moon is a light. Also, scientifically, the suns light is warm, and the moons light is cool.
Jay Gee why didn't he cover this?
Devan Velo it doesn’t help his cause.
NO. The moon is not a light. It reflects the light of the sun
Devan Velo scripture says that God created two great lights.. (sun and moon) not one great light and a reflector.. the Bible says the moon is a light and the fact that the light coming off the moon is actually cold and has opposite properties then the sun, tells us the light coming off the moon is unique and not light that comes from the sun. God bless!
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
32:47
The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth
century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31]
The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32]
Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47).
Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.
@@celestialsatheist1535ut the Bible doesn’t teach the earth is flat, that’s a human mistake. Cosmas using the verse in revelation is such a bad take for his opinion
@@bikesrcool_1958 job:38:13-14)
13 that it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 It is changed as clay under the seal,
and presented as a garment.
And these verses are saying that the earth is like a piece of clay under a seal and the earth apparently had ends! Need a better description of a flat earth? .
@@celestialsatheist1535 ….. this is what happens when you take verses hyper literally. Job is full of poetry, look at leviathan and behemoth. How God describes everything. Don’t try to find problems when there isn’t any to begin with, unless you try to interpret it that way.
What's wrong with believing in flat Earth? That's what got me to repent and be saved was being led into flat Earth
Same
Because it's a lie. Better to spend your time studying God's word.
@@matteuslucas4223 why do you think it's a lie?
@@tonn333 @Matteus Lucas because he believes that the heliocentric model is the truth lol
@@ukDiamond33 so everything to the contrary has to be a lie?
Job 38 is another group of verses that many would reach for as evidence for angels being created before humans, but if we look at the verses, we can see it's poetic language. The morning stars literally sang together about as much as God literally stretched a line or measuring tape to measure the Earth.
(Side note: A number of Flat Earthers would use Job 38:6 to claim that the Earth is not floating in outer space, but is sitting on bases or pillars.)
The morning stars are not angels. They are literal stars, but the singing is poetic language. The stars didn't actually sing, that is, unless we also think that Job 38:8 is speaking of the sea as having literal doors.
The sons of God are humans who were happy to have been welcomed by God into existence, into creation, not supernatural angels. (See Genesis 1:26 - 2:1)
(ESV) 1 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements-surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors ..."
Just FYI: at least in the modern Hebrew, the word from Isaiah 22:18 is seen as the same kind of ball we think of here in America as something round and solid that we would throw it like a baseball or basketball. I am thoroughly enjoying this talk.
I think the important interpretation is what circle met back in the day. Not today.
@@bitrudder3792 That is why I made it uncertain. Do you know the answer from other scholarship?
The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth
century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31]
The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32]
Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47).
Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.
A plausible theory regarding the question of sun not being made until day four.
God said let there be light.
God is light and the source of life.
Pretty plausible that God's own radiance was sustaining the plants and animals until He finished His creation which included in His plans the sun and photisynthesis and the moon with its gravitational fields affecting tide, etc.
Anyways. Just my 2 cents.
yeah that’s exactly what I think happened
My flat earth friends, don’t burden yourself with this flat earth stuff. Don’t make it a stumbling block. Because if it turns out you’re wrong and you start believing the earth is a sphere, well since you’ve reasoned in your mind the Bible teaches flat earth, you’ll be tempted to throw the Bible out.
People do this with evolution all the time. They assume the Bible MUST be read this ONE way and, when the evidence contradicts that, they toss out the Bible.
Your comment won't affect flat earthers. Because those of us in this thread are Bible believers and have seen tons of Scriptures that support the flat earth, despite what Mike THINKS. It's only those that haven't done any serious study of it, and a few like Mike that really think the earth is still a globe, but say they believe in the Bible and call themselves apologists. And we also have other proofs. It's those that support the globe that you should be warning, because the HELiocentric theory supports the anti-Christ big bang and evolution.
Amen, GW!
George Williams See, not only have you put a burden on yourself, you’ve put one on me. You think I am supporting the anti-Christ, and therefore am probably going to hell, because I believe the earth is a sphere. You’re putting a yoke on people that Jesus didn’t ask us to bear. Flat or sphere, it doesn’t matter. Jesus died and was raised by God. THATS what matters. And I believe it wholeheartedly. I’m saved regardless of what shape I believe the earth is.
@@quickattackfilms7923
You said because of evolution, some people toss their bible and their beliefs away.
Why toss the bible and.your faith, when you can toss away the theory of evolution.
Can science prove a resurrection?
If it can't or can, which will you toss away?
Like how science say the stars and the Sun came first contrary to scriptures which say that the earth was made first and the sun moon stars was made during the 4th day.
@@georgewilliams9172 The shape of the earth has nothing to do with evolution. Or the big bang.
I’m here to learn because I love the Lord and His word. Having a friend introduce me to flat earth while I was in paganism/occult was one of the stepping stones to bringing me to Christ. I had thought flat earthers were crazy but after deep diving into it it began to make more sense. Now, I still have questions- I don’t know everything there is on globe earth as much as I don’t know everything there is spoken about flat earth. I am open to understanding. My focus is still and always will be on Jesus. Brining truth to His word matters to me greatly! I do think much of what we are taught in schools is a mess of lies, so relying on school textbooks-even college ones aren’t an argument for me in saying what’s truth. Whats written by man has an agenda- always. What’s written by the Lord IS TRUTH. God bless you all, in Yeshua’s name Amen 🕊️
I can tell you that flat earthers lie, a lot. For instance, flat earth has been around for less than 200 years. The major thought accepted geocentrism until heliocentrism replaced it. BTW, geocentrism is different than flat earth.
Place a pen on a rotating ball and see how it moves evenly around. But our sun arc's around. This arc is only possible on the flat earth. Summer sun in Australia has the sun moving 3, 12, 9 clock face. A ball earth will have the sun move 3 in line to 9 it's a straight path.
The heliocentric sun can not arc. Try the experiment. Use a prism as it's easy to keep level and true. The pen will remain in a straight line. No arc.
Earth is FLAT with a spiraling anti clock wise sun. Its the only explanation for the 3, 12, 9. But Australia needs to be nearer the north pole. The tightening spiral gives the extream arc. The opening allows for the winter arc.
The poles are off limits to citizens. The sun reveals the truth when you think.
I have a firm, and easily relatable grasp on the nuts & bolts of how our world can only be a sphere, if you ever have a specific question, feel free to ask. I'm a Christian as well, and these flerf idiots do more damage than our reputation has already suffered from the "prosperity" types, televangelists, and loud mouthed fundies combined.
Hey man, glad you're here! I can tell you what comvinced the ancient scientists. They noticed that when they watched a boat go out to sea, it disapeared from bottom to top over the horizon. This indicated to them that the earth was a sphere. They then did expiraments to confirm it, but I'll leave that to your research. If you live in an area where you can watch ships leaving to sea, I would recommend trying it for yourself. Hope this helps!
@@sarahkeen526 The exact same thing happens if a person walks away from an observer on a dead flat road. First his shoes disappear then his legs, then hips, torso, then his head. No curve needed. Just a natural phenomenon science called convergence.
2 things I love about Mike, 3 things I really admire… his hard work for the gospel, his gentle attitude and humility, and the fact he was invited to Christ as a youngster, which has inspired me to view young people more Spiritually.
Mike your love for God, your insights into his word and your example is an upward call.
Thanks
🙏🏻🙌🏼🙏🏻🙌🏼🙏🏻🙌🏼
Amen! I couldn’t agree more!!
So when the stars fall, does this mean suns will fall to the earth ?
1:33:33 Did you watch the video? Probably not, huh?
Of course not friend! stars could never fall to earth! even though Jesus firmly believed so! :D
(Just so we clear, this is clearly sarcasm...)
WEAPONS that looked like stars, that the ancient mind would have never understood. This is perspective from ancient times.
@@JesusismyGOD do not add nor subtract from the Word of God, friend. Jesus said so, so I would stop trying to make what he says mean something you like instead of what it says.
@@JesusismyGOD
Aslo. Jesus isn't your God if you don't believe what he says.
Psalm 104.5 Who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be moved for ever.
There’s nothing about a moving ball that has foundations. The verse only makes sense on a geocentric plane.
Anonymous Bosch
Earthquakes aren’t the whole Earth moving as a whole. It’s one part of the Earth quaking temporally until it stops. The Bible teaches Earthquakes, not a spinning ball Earth. The Bible makes it clear the Sun circuits the Earth and that God stopped the Sun moving. I doubt he stopped the Earth from
Spinning, LOL!
@@anonymousbosch586 "People like you are giving bible believers a bad name." Can you forgive us? haha Relax friend, it's just a friendly conversation about the shape of the world. Have fun with it!
@@anonymousbosch586 It's just different strokes brother. Flat Earth brings a lot of people into Christianity even if it might scare others off.
@@anonymousbosch586 Trusting in man is not good, he turns away from God and is full of lies. Each person believes in his own reality, so many live in an illusion. The world ruled by lying psychopaths who ruin everything, they have the power of money, law, science, psychology, technology, brilliant minds and the power of the dark forces. The world is like an onion, how many layers of truth can you see?
Do you know how easy it is to deceive the human being? People say what they think others want to hear so they don't feel ridiculous. Do you think the most influential scientists are impartial? We have all been through indoctrination in schools, everyone is ashamed to contradict the official truth. People debate and defend their ideas, not in order to learn together, but to win the debate and show that the other is wrong. They feel smart because the world agrees with them, of course, they say what the world wants them to say.
Let's be critical, let's not be our own police.
So to refute flat earth you say the bible doesn't mean what it says or he couldn't "walk up a mountain in 40 days. lol But then to defend your view you infer a bunch of things into it that it doesn't say and then you say satan's encounter with Jesus was supernatural. I've never heard such contraditory readings of the bible in my life. You can have your "opinion", but to have to infer a whole new wording to each passage is pure deceit. I wish you could hear yourself. All I can say is WOW
You do know the entire English Bible is TRANSLATED from other languages, right? Don't be ignorant. Got anything else?
Have you thought about doing a video on the firmement? It seems like you just kind of skipped over it even tho it's mentioned countless times in the Bible what do you believe the meaning is??
And I say this with love.
God bless
I think the firmament is strong as a molten looking glass where God put the sun moon and stars to be lights that holds back the waters above. That's what the bible says anyway.
The original hebrew text does not say firmament! It has the word raqia (expansion), coming from raqa (to expand in plates). The septuagint translates raqia with stereoma, meaning a solid, firm. structure and then the latin Vulgate gets firmamemtum, from stereoma, meaning something you can hold to in the case of an argument, *NOT A DOME*.
@@philipps6032 Thank You Phillip so with that what do you believe the firmament or raqia is in your own words? just the regular sky? The part that gets me is it says birds fly on the face of the permanent knots in the firmament
@@_kline9571 I believe the firmament, or expanse in days one to three should better translate as expanding crust, indicating there was a literal shell formed, which seperated the waters.
In days four to six the text specificly mentions, when it talks about literal heaven, the expanse/firmament of heaven. And if you take the hebrew word for heaven, that is, shamayim, you can get very interesting translations. The first thing the ancients had in mind when hearing "heaven" were "the waters above", further to this, you can actually hear it in the word "shamayim", Split it in two: sham mayim, and get "high waters" as a plausible translation, and this solves some confusions in the text.
Just unsubscribed because of this video because you deny the truth
🤣🤣
Psalm 104:5 New International Version (NIV)
He set the earth on its foundations;
it can never be moved.
49:55
@@libertyresearch-iu4fy ?????
@@smith0779 It is a time stamp from the video. How can you not know that?
Why do you take poetry literally
Once you see Satins lies you can't hide them. The earth does not move!
Seems the argument that the ends of the earth equals land and water is a mistake. The word “earth” in Hebrew means land not the whole globe including the ocean, flat or not.
Ends of the earth simply means all the lands not all the waters too.
Thus those verse about nations coming from the ends of the earth make sense no matter what shape the earth is.
Heaven and earth means kind of like A to Z of creation.
So the tower of babel wasn't a real thing and God didn't have to stop it? Because the bible says if God hadn't confused their language they would have been successful. But yet astronauts can go to space and it's a non issue? I guess that's more scripture taken out of context though.... right?
TC8110 💯💯💯💯💯💯
Lmao love this!
Your not seriously thinking that a brick and mortar tower could reach heaven even in your view right??
@@jessethomas3979 Why does it have to be "my view"? Why can't it be what is written? Babel had measurements.. do metaphors have measurements?
@@TC8110 When did I argue that Babel was a metaphor? Reaching the heavens simply is a metaphor for being very tall... No man made structure can actually reach the heavens, even with today's technology, forget about brick and mortar... That's not what God was stopping...
I sort of liked this one response to flat Earth which is this.
Jeremiah 31:37(KJV) "Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord."
Then you wonder if it has been searched out then it says it will cast all the seed of Israel if this happens. Has this happened?
You then read Romans 11:1(KJV)"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."
Then you can also check out Ecclesiastes 3:11(KJV)"11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.". The argument is a poor one, because if we aren't able to know. Scripture says no man can find out and says if man had found out, God would cast all the seed of Israel, but like it says in Romans 11:1(KJV)"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Has God cast away his people? The answer is no. Now, some will accuse you of believing in the wisdom of this world when you don't confirm nor deny flat Earth, but scripture says we cannot know, so arguing from either side is at best talking from a place of ignorance.
Wow.. I kind of like all of the Scriptures that Tell us of the Creator and His Creation. For there are many. Knock and the door will open. Seek and you shall find. Blessing out to you.
Correct. So we can not know if it is a ball as well.
@@mrsg.4398 Indeed, but some get very upset if you deny flat earth as well. Almost like they would break fellowship over what shape the earth is, even though scripture doesn't mention it. And it doesn't make it the most important thing in scripture to know. Not confirming earth is round either, but does seem some make this issue bigger than it really is. Almost placing it more important than the gospel.
I researched flat earth from an atheist perspective. I'm convinced. The bible agrees and why I now believe it. It's just reality.
@@da3879 Young earth creationism isn't the gospel either but I wouldn't go to a church that taught millions of years and evolution because I wouldn't think they really believe the bible. So it's similar except there are very few flat earth churches so you take what you can get.
Can you provide a verse that supports the globe?
Carson Look up Carson.....typologies everywhere 😁
If they are everywhere. How comes no one can even provide one.... if the globe is real there should be at least one bible verse that supports this idea. How was the sun and moon stopped in Joshua? And why was he given authority to stop the moon and sun if the earth is spinning to create the day? And how could the earth stop spinning with out the oceans moving out of place.. these are the kinds of things that should make you wonder .
@josh I literally had a relative site that scripture to refute my Flat Earth claim. I told him to re-read it. That verse is 100% talking about Flat Earth. There is a separate Hebrew word used for ball/globe. The Lord knew this argument would occur and made sure there was a differentiation for context in the Bible.
Logan Smith Did you believe in a flat earth after reading the scripture on it or are you using scripture to justify a preconceived notion?
@@sahmeerodies1686 there is more than enough evidence of the flat earth in the Bible and without the Bible, using real science.