I have to say, I don't get why you said Hollow Knight isn't a metroidvania. Metroid made the metroidvania genre, not Castlevania, and there are no rpg elemets to be found in Metroid. Just like Hollow Knight, the only progression is based on finding new powerups, not improving stats.
"Hollow Knight isnt Castlevania so its not good" maybe, just maybe the game isnt for you? have you considered that? does that immediatly make it a "bad" game? no the fuck it doesnt
In the skill-based movement section you pointed out how there's no mechanic for the mothwing cloak (the dash) to time between each dash, and therefore it's not as satisfying or rewarding as Castlevania, following it up by saying that HK has poggo and Castlevania does too, which the sub text of is "Castlevania did that first". I don't understand, do you want this game to be the same or different from Castlevania? The dashing is made that way because it makes that movement more of a commitment in parkour sections (which the game is full of) and damaging attacks, built with the timing of the cloak in mind to be risky to perform. It's simply a different direction and decision from something they have taken inspiration from. It's called doing art.
I think this one quote is a good example of what the issue with your video is: "There is a difference between not knowing where to use your new-found power to proceed, and not knowing where the hell you are" There is indeed a difference, but this difference in approach is exactly what makes Hollow Knight much more appealing than Castlevania to me. Just having to remember where the spots that you couldn't interact with the last time were isn't very engaging on its own. It can feel very arcadey and, at its worst, just like an arbitrary waste of time. On the other hand, getting lost in a once lived-in world doesn't magically reveal itself to you can be a very immersive experience. Many of your other criticisms fall into the same camp: you want Hollow Knight to be more like Castlevania, without realizing that what makes Castlevania games unique doesn't come without its cost.
I’ll take it a step further, I disrespectfully disagree. TL:DW, I like pressing more buttons when I move, and I have bad sense of direction so I get lost, so the game is bad. Like 80% of his complaint is that he can’t press more buttons when he’s moving.
I mean, “Metroidvaina” refers to Metroid and Castlevania. As far as I know Metroid has almost no RPG elements, so I don’t know why you consider that an essential part of what a Metroidvania is.
i like hollow knight, so i am here to defend it. my critisisms should be taken with a grain of salt as i have played neither any metroid titles, nor any castlevania titles (though i think the netflix show rocks) according to wikipedia the defintion of a metroidvania is: (a sub-genre of action-adventure games and/or platformers focused on guided non-linearity and utility-gated exploration and progression. The term is a portmanteau of the names of the video game series Metroid and Castlevania). hollowknight absolutely meets this definition as many areas are blocked off by not having certain utilities, like the dash, shade dash, or double jump. this is actually seen very early in the game, as you are not able to pass the elder baldur into greenpath without using the vengeful spirit spell, your first ranged attack. while the leveling system in hollow knight is not as obvious as in Super Metroid or in Castlevania, you can get stronger by collecting charm notches, spells, upgrading spells to their void versions, getting more health (masks) or doing more damage (nail upgrades). though each of these are upgraded individually, it does show that hollow knight is more moldable to suit the player. instead of a steady statistic increase, you get better at HK (hollow knight) by learning bosspatterns, getting better charms, using your limit resources (charm notches) to build a playstyle that you like. maybe you play more defensively and have health boosting charms, or maybe you have an all melee build, boosting damage, strike length and strike speed. you might even focus more on spells, or nail arts (special sword attacks), and because of hollowknights unique way of giving the player access to limited resources you can mould your combat experience to better suit you. HK absoluetly has skilled movement, but because you've never beaten the game it's likely that you just havent seen it. While you are absolutely correct, early game HK is quite annoying, the dash recharge time is fairly quick, and since one of HK's many strengths is room design and atmosphere, they dont really want you to rush through every room. HK is instead very generous with its fast travel options, making stag stations ir tramways accessible almost everywhere (royal waterways is a notable exception, but thats only relevant for the godmaster dlc, which is usually very late game content). hollow knights skill based movement comes in the form of presicion platforming. places like the white palace, and the path of pain are where hollow knight really strains the player in term of control over the knight. additionally, many grubs (collectibles) and other upgrades are locked behind increasingly difficult platforming or combat sections, which gives the game a good sense of progression. If you are very adamant on fast movement options however, wall cling storage in earlier versions of the game is a glitch that requires a lot of skill to pull off, but allows speedrunners to blitz through rooms. (nitpick but saying that HK is poorly designed and then saying that it shares a really cool feature with castlevania kind of comes off as saying that castlevania is poorly designed, though ik thats not what you're going for). Castlvania absolutely has smoother movement, and its very calibrated to a players skill level, but hollow knight also excells in movement through more ability oriented level design. you mention that in some rooms, the superdash is absolutely neccesary. this is because the rewards in those rooms are meants for after you have reached the point of the game where you can superdash. just like how redire is a reward for completing the optional room and gives a great reward, superdash (C-Dash) in hollow knight is a tool that allows you to unlock great rewards. falling off of platforms is a skill issue tbh. you can jump over enemies and pogo, or if you are close enough you can slash upwards, which has a small hitbox around the knight, and you take no knockback, though to preform this you have to time it correctly (skill expression). Hollow knight, as a game is one of the most beautiful showcases of room design, and enviormental storytelling. every single room in this game has an incredible amount of detail in the backgrounds, and works to further the overall feeling of emptiness and alonness, that feeling that you really are alone. each area in the game also has area based storytelling, for example in greenpath, we see that its overflowing with vegetation, and we learn later that in queens gardens, another area overflowing with greenery, that it was overtaken by the nympho queen the white lady, and this is visible in the extra mechanical setpieces, which we can cross reference with the white palace, a place that has a lot of buzzsaws and other mechanical set pieces. Or we can look at the forgotten crossroads, while originally barren and empty, if you progress enough in the game it becomes the infected crossroads, and while that does limit movement, and that is annoying, it also shows the player what the consequences are if the radience (the infection that is controlling the enemies) goes unchecked. the map pins, quill, and navigation charm are all very cheap and very accessible early in the game. you are meant to pick up all the pins with all the money you make from beating the first boss (the false knight) and then you can buy those quality of life charms from selubra by collecting the ridiculous amount of geo (HK currency) from greenpath. the navigation issue is another skill issue, if you cant understand that you need to go very far to the left, and then down two rooms to get to the bench, then thats a you problem. most rooms are not square, and not making every room uniform adds to the immersion. for a first playthrough, map issues are quite common, but by your second or third playthrough you are usually able to memorize your route because all the rooms are so unique and memorable. hollow knight doesnt need sign or landmarks, because you should be able to tell what room you are in by cross referencing the shape of the room with the shapes on the map. most rooms dont even have multiple transitions that go the same direction so you should still be able to mentally map out 2 rooms right 3 rooms down. charms in hollow knight are geared towards how you want to play the game. if you equip a bunch of quality of life charms, like gathering swarm, dashmaster, wayward compass, and steady body (though steady body is actually a monstorous combat charm if you're good) then you will most likely lag behind in combat. if you equip a bunch of combat charms, then you will more easily get lost or lose out on money. giving the player so many easy options to progress takes away from core give and take of the charm system. Many areas also reward exploration in the areas with geo, or collectibles, because the game developers want to drill the envoirment and feel of the area into the player, and providing such a good incentive for staying in the area gives the player a sense of satisfaction. Geo explodes everywhere for a similar reason. while i concede that it is annoying sometimes, staying in and exploring a room really allows you to be immersed in the world of HK. the idea that in early game geo is your main source of progression is wrong. you get your first spell without needing geo, you get the dash without needing geo, you get the wall jump without needing geo, and you get your first nail (sword) upgrade without geo. saving charm builds is a very good point. it would be really cool if you could do that. that would be very neat.
continuation: most of your time is actually spent fighting bosses. the godmaster DLC is an area with no exploration, and with 5 boss rush levels, also introducing a handfull (i think 10?) new bosses. if you want to do absolutely everything in the game, more than half of your time will be spent in godhome, an area where you can access any boss at any time provided that you have unlocked them. the boss fights also absolutely tie into exploration. the fodder enemies in areas detail and advance the enhancement in an area, culminating in a boss that you fight, the boss usually being a product of the enviorment. the brooding mawlek is sad because of the two mawlek colonies, all its friends died, and all the other mawleks are in the other colony. nosk is the creepiest boss, and an imitation hunting bug, and lures you in by looking exactly like the player model. nosk also just so happens to be in the darkest and scariest area in the game. is this because boss good and area bad? or is it because team cherry, the developers of the game were very considerate in when and where they put each boss, and how each boss would effect its enviorment, and vice versa. this is seen in so many more bosses too, traitor lord lives with all the other traitor mantises, and the traitor mantises, despite being fodder characters, are so intersting, and usually have 2-3 moves. the dungdefender lives in the sewers underneath the capital city, because he used to be a great knight that defended the pale king, but when the pale king died, and most of the other great knights too, he sank into the sewers, he lived in shit because he probably felt like shit. you missed a save point in the clip where you showed the trek back to the bossfight, and you also needlessly backtracked in a few spots. also if your point is that in castlevania bossfights are very difficult as compared to previous games, and hard=good, then you should explore more of the godmaster dlc, as there are augmented challenge bosses (radient/ harder versions of previous bosses) availible. if the game let you sit in the spikes, that would make platforming and pogoing very janky. the level design in hollow knight is amazing, and even though it focuses more on platforming than the average metroidvania, it also has incredibly deep combat based features, like the aformentioned godmaster dlc, the colloseum of fools, the grimmtroupe dlc, and the warrior dreams. (sidenote, all hollow knight dlc's are completely free, so missing out on content cuz u cant afford it is not a concern). teleporting back to a safe space is a staple in many platforming based games, such as celeste, mario bros, and more. taking inspiration from critically acclaimed and very popular platforming games to improve your platforming is not a bad thing, just like taking inspirations from other great works of media like bloodbourne is not a bad thing. I have been glazing the level design without giving enough reasons, so heres a few reasons why hollow knights rooms are well designed. Hollow knight rooms like to slowly build up mechanics overtime, so that when you get deep into areas, you are familiar with what you have to do. a very easy way to do this is to limit the players options. for example, when you first start the game, the only things you can do are move, jump, swing your nail, and heal. so when you try to walk into a door, and it doesnt work, and you cant jump over it, your only option left is to swing your sword. once you see it break, you will probably understand what to do when at the end of the starting area, where your final challenge is a giant door blocking your way. after you hit it a few times, it breaks, just like how when you hit the smaller doors, they broke too. HK also rewards exploration with geo rocks, grubs, and other collectibles, and often shows you a cool colectible, like one that would increase your health, or a charm, but give you no way to get there. thats usually because you are meant to go back after you unlock more movement options, which shows that team cherry knew exactly what movement options and rewards they should give you at all points in the game. Hollow knights rooms also have tons of varied enemies, from the basic goomba acting ones, to flying ones, to rolling ones, tomore complex ones, like the elder baldurs, who are immune to meelee attacks, but spit out baldurs which you can kill for soul, allowing you to cast a ranged attack to kill it. theres a room which has a pit fall, which is completely inescapable unless you can kill one of two baldurs beside you, and if you kill the optional one, you get a charm. while hollow knights room designs arent anything groundbreaking, they are better than most video games, and are definetly not tedious or repetetive. the general consensus on hollow knight music is that its very good. while the castlevania song you played absolutely slaps, there is no denying that HK's music is really good. you not liking it is a personal preference, and doesnt really match in terms of objectively critiquing HK as a metroidvania, or even as a game in general. HK enemies actually do have pretty neat and satisfying death animations. watching them recoil and fade out into the background is nice, and the white and orange explosion outwards is cool. where death animations really shine, however, is in the boss fights. broken vessel reaches out its hand towards you, before falling lifeless at your feet. dung defender explodes, and you can see him blast off into the background like team rocket from pokemon. many of the larger fodder enemies have chunks of their bodies expell outwards, and you can see them litter the floor, really showcasing the cuts you put into their shells. in conclusion, a lot of your arguments are made on assumptions that are quickly debunked not only be a 10 second google search, but by your own standards. while castlvania is an excellent game, and a very good example to compare to, for a title called why hollow knight isnt fun to play, i would have expected more variation in the comparisons. the map and navigation of this game are geared towards having you be interested in discovering lore, appreciating scenery, and seeing the differences in atmosphere, enemy types, and bosses per area, but if you like high action, burst gameplay, then the main story of hollow knight isnt for you, because its a little bit mroe difficult to turn your brain off and mow through enemies. castlevania is an excellent game, a masterclass in combat and combat systems, but metroidvania's are also focused on platforming, and storytelling, and depriving hollowknight of the title of metroidvania because its not 100% geared towards maximum player ecstasy and combat is criminal. also critiquing the length of the game is stupid. you can beat the main story in 10 hours, or 5, or you can move past the main story and get the true ending in a longer amount of time, or you can move even further past that. saying that the game being 60 hours long isnt a selling point is like saying that the game having more content is worse than the game having less content. entertaining video, but make sure that you thorougly examine the thing you are critiquing before complaining about it. saying that you can only get 5 hours into hollow knight, and that it isnt fun because you dont get far enough for it to be hard is just telegraphing that you arent looking for the hollow knight experience. the statement that you dismiss at the start of the video is 100% valid. if you dont like hollow knight because it offers a different experience, dont play it.
After watching your entire critique, the points you have made are not true points, you frame your video and your criticisms as if what you are pointing out are inherently and objectively bad design choices, but that isn't the case, they're simply design choices you personally don't enjoy, and at one point you even speculate on no evidence just to try to insult Hollow Knight's developers, at 9:20 that is simply your own baseless speculation. You claim there is a difference between not knowing where to use your new powers, and not knowing where you are, which is true, and I can see that you personally don't enjoy not knowing where you are, that is true for your experience, not for all of us, personally I like the way Hollow Knight does its maps and exploration. To reiterate, your entire critique is just you explaining why you personally didn't enjoy the game, you even complain about the music, which is also subjective and many people love it. I don't have a problem with you expressing why a game isn't for you, I have a problem with the phrasing being built in a way to imply you speak the objective truth, and not your subjective experience.
all i'm getting from this is "i dont like this game because it did something different from what i've been playing my entire life" and thats not very awesome sauce
I hate to break it to you, but most of these "problems" are just personal preference. And geo is not a big part if progression, sure you can get some things but no main story place requires the lantern or any other things that you purchase
nail upgrades and more than half of gettable charm notches require geo, along with some extremely late game items. Until ancient basin you basically have no nail upgrades past the basic one, thats more than 80% into the game if you ignore the optional content.
@@Vivek10010 By the time you can get nail upgrades and more charms, you also have lemm, which let's you rack up lots of geo easily. This encourages exploration and backtracking because it is the best way to get money besides maybe the Colosseum, which fixes the late game geo issue, whatever that issue even is.
@@Vivek10010 its only over if you aren't rushing the game or something, maybe you can try the true ending? Or hold off on ending the game to yknow, EXPLORE the remaining areas? The exploration is encouraged way before the game gets close to ending, it only really begins to end when you get dream nail and again that's if you're RUSHING the game. Normally you'd get the dreamers on the sideline as you do side quests and whatnot. Getting those charm notches requires exploring and so does that one pale ore.
@@tessal6555 Or maybe they could have given the upgrades way earlier? Sounds much better to me. Jamming every essential ability to navigate into a charm system which conflicts with your offensive options also seems counter productive and only a way to scuff.
I will say this: Hollow Knight is fun, but it lacks in replayability Its exploration is incredible, I'll give it that. Few games rival Hollow Knight in that aspect. But after beating the game, that's no longer a factor. This, with the lack of platforming challenges (Crystal Peak is a joke and White Palace is just one area) means that the main appeal for replayability is the combat. The combat is fantastic, but now I know where the objectives are, how to get to them and how to beat them easily. The Delicate Flower quest, which is amongst the hardest in the game, is not difficult anymore. Avoid enemies, use spells, don't walk into spikes, done. Godhome is straight up not fun past Pantheon 3. I also agree that Hollow Knight doesn't have enough skills for a game of its size. I'd say good example of progression is Ori and the Will of the Wisps. The game starts off with no abilities unlocked, but a couple of hours in you have a double jump, wall jump, a dash, a grapple, around 3 weapons and of course, the BASH. Compare this to Hollow Knight, where you have a dash and a wall jump. The visuals and audio are not that special. Cristopher Larkin did great with what he had and it does set up the atmosphere VERY nicely, but as you said, they're nothing to play regularly. Tracks like Sealed Vessel and Radiance are great, but I'm not listening to them outside of the boss fights. Area themes, even less so. Now, the visuals are pretty, they look good and they do the job, but I won't be saying 'Yeah, Hollow Knight looks beautiful'. Why am I saying this? Because audio and visual design fundamentally changes your game. If it's forgettable or bland, I won't want to play the game. I have spoken
I don't think he's wrong. Just because you don't like the same things doesn't mean someone is wrong. This is coming from someone who loved Hollow Knight btw...
@@jom1718 he most certainly is wrong. Calling a video “why hollow knight isn’t fun” is crazy work when it has millions of adoring fans. Clearly it’s extremely fun to play. Hence he is wrong. It is a fully objective opinion that he tried to play off as fact
most of your gripes are intended elements that are taken from other genres which is also why it doesn't fit any genre well. not being Castlevania doesn't make a game bad.
I think all of your criticisms are valid but personally I never had a problem with any of these things. I really enjoyed the feeling of exploring a world that felt nearly endless and that had so many distinct areas. There's a lot of friction in the gameplay, like the fact that you unlock your movement very slowly. I feel like this just made the game better for me tbh; it helped me ground to the world of hollow knight. I'm not the sort of person who typically plays games for exploration or vibes, but honestly hollow knight was an outlier for me in this regard. The fact it took time to find the bosses, made them feel ultimately so much more rewarding. Exploring the game was kind of like putting together a large puzzle.
I feel like a way better name for this video would be "my problems with Hollow Knight" but ofc that wouldn't get people like me to watch. I understand your issues but personally I love the gameplay. It feels less like an action packed exploration and more like a methodical adventure. Whenever you rest at a bench you can look and see where else you could have gone on that path. The money flying around to me feels like a non issue and seeing the enemies explode into collectable couns just makes it really satisfying to pick it all up after an arena/just exploring. Money never feels like its explicitly tied to progression save one case because every charm is optional and most can be found lying around or picked up after a boss. And the music is somthing ill throw on while reading/ exploring in another game because it's not aggressive and in your face, and the fact it's semu reactive to what you're doing (ie. Greenpath crystal dash/ shellfly pogo room or arenas) just make it feel way more alive than just a looping track that only changes with each area. I respect what you're saying but most of the problems you bring up are non issues if you really get into the game.
I think you touched upon the reason why so many people love this game, and that's atmosphere. When compared to the games in this genre that I love (Metroid and Castlevania), Hollow Knight is slower paced, and that's certainly to going to appeal to people in ways that Metroid and Castlevania don't.
sorry but making a title that feels hateful of a beloved game by many is a horrible idea so no condolences for this mans actions are deserved, a opinion of this caliber deserves to be picked apart and scrutinized as saying you don't like the game because you don't like the game would of been better on a comment not a 20 minute video i can't watch because of your voice no offence sir
@@RushHourWeekend I feel like you only cited castlevania and never once talked about metroid a game many are much more familiar with and is much closer in feel to hollow knight.
I don't know about you I did not need to constantly open my map I just explored got lost found bosses and items and when you eventually find a bench youll know where you are, in my first playthrough I didnt even use the pin charm also there are usually alwas bench's near bosses theres maybe three boss you can say take long to get to and there all ez af so before the fight you can change from exploration charms to combat charms
This whole video felt like a “this game doesn’t play like ____ so I hate it” opinion. Most of your “problems” were just gameplay mechanics that weren’t in castlevania so you didn’t like it. Not to mention you didn’t even bring up Metroid once. “The art style is fine” is a highlight for me, like I actually laughed out loud. You can’t expect people to accept your video as your opinion when you call the video “why hollow knight isn’t fun to play”. For the love of god just change it to “why I don’t like hollow knight” and I’ll be happier. Try telling millions of adoring fans that hollow knight is a bad game. Do you expect us to be like “ohh right! I thought it was fun but all the things you’re saying makes me realise I didn’t enjoy it after all! My mistake silly me.” I have no problem with someone not liking the game but attempting to convince millions of players that one of their favourite games is bad is crazy work. It would be like me saying valorant is a bad game. Sure I fucking hate it but millions of people play it so clearly it’s doing it’s job as a videogame well. If this was made as a joke then fair play, I was half suspecting throughout the video because some of the points you were making were borderline ludicrous. The fact that you had a problem with the tiny TINY delay in opening the map is foul lmao
you don't really need the quality of life charm upgrades in Hollow Knight, they are more like, if you really don't like it, turn it off, but at a cost. Not showing you on the map serves to make you work to find the right path and teaches you to navigate. This can give you a satisfying sense of accomplishment when you finally learn to navigate the map or find yourself in a familiar place when you got lost precisely for not having your location pinpointed in an intentionally obscure map. The challenge is there, if you don't like it, turn it off...peak of game design imo in a game that wants to be punishing and wants you to master it, but at the same time, the developers understand that this can be tedious for some players, so they give you options to turn it off, with a small punishment, because the game wants you to work for it at least a little bit. The pogo is good whether it was in Castlevania or the other games or not. They use it well in Hollow Knight. Charms overall are there really to let you modify your journey with a budget of a few charm slots. That's why the process is so easy and streamlined, not some stat respec, but modification of your gameplay depending on the situation. This provides variety and experimentation, coupled with incentives for exploration through another great decision of filling in the map as you go, along with charm rewards, visual rewards. Shall I keep going? The game is clearly designed with intent of giving you a certain experience, there are incentives, rewards, limiting game design decisions for you to master or bypass with some creative options, intended or not. The game is amazing in this aspect, and I have never even started talking about the combat. You clearly know how to analyze a game, because you explained in great detail how the mechanics in Castlevania work. But you chose not to understand them, and/or not to engage with them in Hollow Knight. If you don't want to put yourself trough it, fine, don't play the game. But then it is a shame when you make a video in which you are complaining without a good understanding of the mechanics or the developer intentions. So maybe ask yourself, why even make this video? Is it worth it to just let all that spite out without thinking it trough, or would it maybe better to ask why the hell everyone loves this game, and I don't and genuinly trying to find out why. I know what I would want to watch much more.
For skillful movement, you complained it was easy and simple yet it took you 5 hours to not even be half way through the game. The game has been completed in 30 minutes. If that doesn't tell you that there is skill required I don't know what does. I'd highly recommend watching an any percent run
i dunno man, hollow knight is one of my favorite games of all time you can have your opinions but dont deploy false information like hollow knight not being a metroidvania you also didnt even beat the game and probably didnt even unlock most of the moveset
Wanna know the difference between Hollow Knight Pogoing and Castlevanias pogoing. PATH OF PAIN. POGOING IS ACTUAL MOVEMENT NOT JUST oh cool i bounce off enemies
Bro, that video is just an excuse for you to say that castlevania is better (in your opnion) than hollow knight. Most of the problems you've said in this video was about how boring and slow exploration was in the game, since the other mechanics you criticize during the video is not even relevant because it is based on the same thing, exploration, hollow knight is meant to be something you absorb during the game, the whole point of this video is how you wanted to have a fast food but instead had to buy and cook the ingredients. Also if you need to open a map each 0.2 seconds to play a game, you're playing map simulator
Hollow Knight and Castlevania are different games, made by different devs, in different eras of gaming. Just because Hollow Knight is *different* doesn't mean it is worse. If you don't enjoy HK, fine, it's not your cup of tea. I just don't get why you felt the need to make a 20 minute video explaining your discomfort with unfamiliar game mechanics. Edit: Also, as a rule of thumb, I really feel like you should at least finish the game before giving it a review. I'm not saying that's going to change your opinion or anything, but it might give you a little bit of perspective as to why people love this game.
This video is just "Hollow Knight is not Castlevania, which means it's bad" Different genres. Plus, metroid never had any skill points and leveling system (so Castlevania is now bad because it just gives out abilities with no repercussions). You compared different game mechanics with different purpuses in different genres. By that logic any game with exploration that's not Castlevania is bad. Don't get me wrong, it is your right to not enjoy HK as much as Castlevania games. But please don't pretend to be objective on this, you don't need to.
6:20 or, you can quickly do a small jump and pogo the enemy. that's SKILL BASED MOVEMENT, like you were complaining about Hollow Knight's apparent lack of. I also don't know why you hate customization in games so much, the charm system is a good way of letting players play how they want to.
The amount of people crying about the title of the video is insane. Obviously this is his opinion. Why does that need to be explicitly stated in the title? Do you struggle differentiating between facts and opinions unless every single statement is prefaced with “In my opinion?” Discussing whether something is fun or not is already inherently subjective. Guess what. Most videos you’ve seen are subjective. But when you agree with it, it’s okay I guess. You’ll live if other people think your precious game isn’t fun.
I'm not a Hollow Knight Expert, but having a low skill movement cap is not nessessarily a bad thing. Games like Pizza tower are based around Movement, While (I THINK) Hollow Knight is based around getting lost and exploring aswell as having simple combat mechanics, but really hard fights. So I agree 100% with the boss thing, Bosses are good. But I LOVED EXPLORING. I loved seeing new faces, I loved moving around and using my stuff and new abilties to just find new things. And I despise having stuff like type weaknesses and stuff while I am fighting a boss like Lost kin, Imagine if you had to change something to get diffrent types of attacks against a boss IN hollow Knight. It's not gonna work. Also. Why blame Hollow Knight ONLY ?? while stuff like Elden Ring or Shovel knight also force Progression lost on Death and force you to get back your money and take time. Shovel knight is not close to Hollow Knight anyways but still. my point is close. Yes its linear, but GOOD LORD IF YOU GET YOUR MONEY LOST IN A SECRET its pain. And well.. we don't talk about elden ring, I understand that SOMETIMES you can get angry when you loose against a boss and need to walk all the way back, but for me its not that the issue, I don't fit it hard or annoying, I just prepare myself, try some other loadout, test it on the way there, then we fight. I understand all the issues named, but I don't agree with most. If I want a complicated game with exploration ? Fine, play Castlevaina or stuff like Pokemon, but if I want a simpler game that's still hard but you don't need a BIBLE worth of text to play it : stuff like Hollow Knight fall in my range. And finally : Why did you call Cornifer the "Map NPC" that man has a name T-T. I know its not a game related issue but c'mon man, respect the Cornifer. And Yes I suck at explaining things, I am unable to write everything how I think it is. Cuz I'm bad at it. Hava nice day.
i understand why you dont like hollow knight, but personally its my favourite game because of the end game mouvement and the end game boss fight like absolute radiance witch i think are really fun. But now i can more inderstand why my friends dont like the game, like you said the mouvement are not good at the start. so i just think that you compare a bit to much to metroid because they are not the same game where hollow knight is more in the charming visual (like every region having a differant color palette and theme) and nice interation with the npc (more like undertale) metroid look very skill base and not casual like you said moving can be difficult. and sorry english is not my first language:)
I think you are being far too kind. This man tried to explain an opinion and phrased it as if it was fact. He says that “hollow knight is not fun” when there are millions of players who aggressively disagree. If he explained his points as if they were his opinion then I wouldn’t have a problem with this video
hollow knight actually is fun to play for most of people and one of the main reasons is that hk is fair and well-balanced game but the reason of being like this is lack of variety which is my main problem with game. Player have only one sword, 3 spells and very limited moveset. And unfortunately most metroidvanias that came after hollow knight trying to be like hk in this regard. I can remember only one game that came out recently and not trying to be like hollow knight or symphony of night, it's blasphemous 2. It has 3 weapons, much more spells and movement abilities than hk have.
Can't say I agree on your weird point of it not being a metroidvania seems like you just dont want it to be asscoiated with the greats(which i get) but otherwise yeah pretty much everything you said I agree with and unlike you (which will lead to people not taking waht you say seriously of course) I beat the game and did some optional content as well I suppose what people enjoy about this game is just different then what we enjoy from metroid and castlevania still its a major disappointment that a game coveted as the best in the genre just turned out really boring for us
@@royaloreo1275 It would be good if the title said it first. But no, he says that the game IS BAD, and NOT FUN TO PLAY, like it is a law or something. But you know, you need to do this "catchy and rage bait" ahh title.
@@rextix Subjectivity is implied. And like, a lot of people slathered praise and love over the game. This is a small channel, it's not like he's going to gaslight people into thinking they actually hated playing.
I only played for like three hours at most, before deciding I watched too much of this game on RUclips to enjoy gaming. But I formed some opinions. Dashmaster felt like overkill, and enabled dash downwards which added room for mistakes. And steady body seems like a challenge run, the knockback is vital to keeping distance between you and foes. If they were intrinsic I'd probably adapt, but those charms don't feel like quality of life, but a mechanical change
well the charms are meant to be a mechanical change and not QoL, take the sharp shadow charm, it will fuck up yourndash, making it a terrible charm in platform centric areas, such as the path of pain or the traitor daughter's grave, it makes ulp for this in its combat utility, the damage it does rewards you for using your shadow dash correctly and makes boss fights (especially ones like the traitor lord) noticably faster, or the steady body, which allows you to do much more damage than just holding foward, but puts you in more danger as it incentivizes getting close to a boss, which can put you at risk of getting damaged or the fact that sometimes the nail's knockback is a useful tool for escaping risky situations and removing that tool gives you less options
Interesting take, i never played a metroidvania like a manic dashing freak but more like im in a slow calculated mind. But if a played a Megaman o something like, i wish to play it like you said, chaining moves and cruising fast the levels. What I want to say is there is a diferent take in each metroidvanias more or less rpg, more or less speedy chain moves, etc...
Playing Castlevania games for the first time, I take them easy. I don't backdash everywhere and try to move quickly. But the reason why I enjoy replaying these games, and especially Super Metroid, is because of the movement options. In Super Metroid, you can wall jump, bomb jump, mockball, and arm pump all in the first 10 minutes of the game, and each one requires varying degrees of skill to execute well. Arm pumping is easy and doesn't really move you that much faster, while mockball is tricky to pull off but lets you sequence break the game.
@@RushHourWeekend I understand, and is a cool topic for a future video also. Games that reward mastery and knowledge on subsecuent replays, first to come to my mind are sonic, megaman and some rpg like FF8 (that you already talked about some days ago)
You are incorrect about the definition of the Metroidvania genre. RPG mechanics are not a factor in it. It is simply the gradual opening up of the "open world" through the unlocking of new abilities. But I actually agree... Hollow Knight is not fun. But for me it was because of the very unnatural and floaty feel of the jump animation.
20 seconds into the video and hoh boy, you ignore half the name of the genre. it's METROIDvania and correct me if I am wrong, but that series doesn't have an rpg progression system.
oh boy this is one hell of a review but ill go through this step by step. Someone else in the comments explained the metroidvania thing so look at their comment if you got concerns and whatnot so ill leave it at that and go onto the skill based movement argument. while yes I can see ecclesia has skill based movement, i dont understant why you dont think hollow knight isnt skill based. all you talked about were dash cancels and while that is very cool and rewarding for skilled players, hollow knight has its strengths in its movements. every basic movement in hollow knight requires skill, you mentioned pogoing in castlevania, but the way hollow knights pogoing is done is in a way for the player to gain mastery over the mechanic, you are meant to reuse it and find creative ways to do things in the game with each ability that require and insane amount of skill to execute. lets take for example the The Hollow Knight fight, where pogoing is used in a pretty basic way, and doesent take much thought, but you may notice that you can parry in Hollow Knight and you can Pogo the things you parry. so in the hollow knight boss you can do some like, instead of dashing over the boss when he swings his nail, you can parry it, dealing more damage, getting rewarded for being better at the game whilst not taking any damage. you take things like this and apply this to every single thing in the game down to the super dash and you have so much advanced movement tech its crazy, like you can skip traversing all of greenpath to get to hornet by using you vengeful spirit and double casting to make the trip to hornet that much shorter.overall this skill based movement just come from a lack of time spent in the game which is apparent through most of this review this is only the start. for the Maps in Hollow Knight team cherry took inspiration from many games and the whole thing with cornifer if i can recall was something from another game i dont exactly remember but the entire point is for the player to recognize where they are and where they started with clues given from the roughly drawn map and the fleshing it out once you LISTEN to cornifer and go to his shop. you are correct all the markers are meant to be bought all at once that is the point for casual players. i dont understand why you took the piss out of the game for that since the entire point of it is for beginners. can i mention that hollow knights map, while large is easily memorized? i left the game for 2 years came back and still remembered where to go because the map in the game is memorable, and theres more than enough things for casuals to get a hold aswell. again with simple reading comprehension you will know where to go and what to do and most areas are designed in a way to lead you roughly to the next closest place that is safe like with fog canyon and how it makes you descend into the queens station stag. another thing to not is that, when you get lost in this game that usually means you have the possibility to find something new. in hollow knight getting lost is just another way to level up and get stronger since theres something literally everywhere and as long as you can follow a path you are fine, the game wants you to get lost to explore these things and as mentioned the game does try to lead you the best it can. getting lost in hollow knight is rewarding and your not really told to backtrack since you can easily get to a bench since they are everywhere.the map isnt really that cumbersome whatsoever and with visual cues you are lead in the right direction. to mention the grid style map argument, brother grow up this isnt a carbon copy of castlevania. the game gets you to adapt to the map in its runtime and works for the most part since i can barely remember where i put my phone yet i know the entire map of hallownest. about the big rooms, the game is big and it would be inconvenient to have these small rooms that serve no purpose. about the mini map point, again the game wants you to explore and get lost. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON YOUR MAP EVERY 2 SECONDS. progression is not tied to money. the money you get in hollow knight is accumulated and you dont really need the money for the most part since exploration is the name of the game. with this i kinda just felt like you thought you had to play this specific way because of the games you played in the past instilling the idea this is a the way the game is meant to be played. its not, and progression is not tied to money but the upgrades and level ups you get along the way and since its non linear you get alot especially after you get the mantis claw which open up, and this is not a joke, 95% of the map. there is stuff everywhere in this game you just gotta find it. take it one step at a time not everything has to be turbo speed all the time. hollow knight is a slow burn game you aren't meant to beat it fast. your point on gathering swarm is bad just strait up. that charm is a preference charm and doesent really server a purpose unless you need the money that badly (you dont). the charms are not meant to change how you play the game too much that is simply a you thing. you arent being forced to use any charms and i feel like this entire point is disingenuous to the entire design of hollow knight. you literally jsut choose what you like, that is until white palace but i know for a fact you never got there so ignore what i said. charms at the end of the day are preference and while there are objectively good charms like shaman stone, you are not forced to "power up" through them. most charms arent even bought. take quick slash which doubles your nail speed, you find it by desolate diving on a floor near oro's hut in the room over. exploration is rewarded, and while you arent forced to use quick slash, you have that option available. these charms are moer quality of life if you have them. for the bosses section i actually agree with you for the most part, the trek is annoying and the fact that your shade hinders the game so much is annoying but you also have to recognize that its really easy to find shortcuts in this game just look at odd textures and hit walls and they may be breakable. while this doesent solve the issue it makes it much better but still i got no complaints there. the thing about the type weapons is odd tho like it just doesent matter in the grand scheme of things. you have nail go poke, its as easy as that while there are enemies and bosses that will sometimes only take damage from spells which you should jsut allways use since they are the optimal way to play. for the section about design i feel i addressed most but lets talk about the warping. the hazzard warping in hollow knight is weird i agree but in the grand scheme of thing it is there the make levels be more cohesive and add punishment for not having a grasp of the prior mentioned mechanics. this really jsut come down to the devs were limited and warping was kinds the best option, tho i do agree that it does suck ass at times. music and art. this is preference, just cuz you dont listen to the music doesent mean others dont. not everyone is you my man. the mention of time restraint is fair, hollow knight is a logn game and if you dont have the time its fine. you arent being forced to play the game and you dont even have to get half the shit in the game cuz it almost all optional. in conclusion what your reviews comes down to is just a flwaed view of the game and waht yo were expecting. you were expecting a castlevania game but you got hollow knight which does alotta new things with the genre and if thats not for you its fine but dont take that as its a bad game cuz hollow knight is an amazing game that i hold highly till this day. if you wanna experience the game the best way you have to throw away all preconcieved notions and just have fun getting lost in hallownest. if you dont have time then thats also okay. you dont have to play everyday, just open from time to time. its a slow burn my friend.
This video couldve just easily been about what you like about Castlevania but instead you sum up your personal preference as objective positives to complain about another game. As you said at the start. If you dont like the game dont play it
Just incorrect. It’s like you convinced yourself it’s a platformer just so you could say bad incorrect things about it. I think you just don’t like exploring. It’s made slower on purpose, but the movement and combat is still tight. Do you enjoy exploring? But I don’t think you do, which is fine, but games like castlevania have a lot less of that, which is why I think Metroid is a much bigger part of metroidvanias, because there’s more exploration there. Also they’re trying to make enemies better in the sequel, with a 2-3 person team you would not be able to create the best enemies either. Also I will only give you 3 bosses where the run back is too long. Soul master, mantis lords, and dung defender (but if you lost to him you’re just bad). Every other boss is perfectly fine. That’s a cherry picked argument and you know it. Also just the fact that you check the map constantly tells me you don’t like exploration. Get lost! Literally! I challenge you to play the game without the map! It’s not the best but it makes it interesting in a different way. Songs in hk are way better in my opinion, you like your songs because you think your game is better, that’s it. Same thing for me but you need to at least understand that. For enemies, you literally don’t need death animations and I’m sorry again for a 2 PERSON TEAM that just literally has no money for that. Like I know you addressed it but it’s just not needed, not part of the design (hk is more cutesey, less grisly), and the devs couldn’t if they wanted to
holy shit, jesus christ, this is maybe the worst case of never separating what is your opinion from what you claim as objective fact, you literally never add "I think" or "in my opinion" before any statement, this game is universally beloved and considered one of the best games of it's year, easily top 5 indie games of the year, so have you considered that all these complaints you have are genuinely a you issue and not a game issue the definition of words change over time depending on how they're used. With that in mind, Hollow Knight is in fact a metroidvania. Also, a game does not need to take inspiration frmo both metroid and castlevania to be a metroidvania, pulling from one of them is enough, it's just a convenient term because a lot of 2D platformers take inspiration from both, but it's not a requirement. Hollow Knight very obviously takes a lot more inspo from metroid than castlevania, so castlevania is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion, so stop going back to it and yapping about it. With a well-designed world and map, there's not a really a need for a way to move quickly. Hallownest is a packed place, and there aren't many long sections of nothing where most people wish they were walking faster. I think team cherry intentionally made the knight walk pretty slowly and not have a way to run because they wanted you to absorb every element of the beautiful world they created. Sometimes the point of a world isn't just to get from point A at the start of the area to point B at the end. Regarding maps, I think it makes sense what they did because the map isn't meant to be for the players, it's meant to be for the knight, and the players just happen to be controlling the map. The Knight wouldnt be able to look at their map if they havent taken a moment to draw what the map looks like, and I think it's reasonable they'd wait for a moment of rest on a bench to do that. This is just in general and applies to several other sections of your video, where I think Team Cherry thought what was actually logical instead of doing what most other games do. The Knight probably doesn't have perfect memory, so it's reasonable that it can be a hassle to backtrack (not that manually backtracking on foot is almost ever necessary at all if you've been buying stag stations). Dashmaster and sprintmaster are extremely rarely used because they're just not necessary. Same with Steady Body, it's very easy to get used to playing without it, and it takes up charm notches that more useful charms can fill. Again with the compass charm it's a matter of whats logical, probably for the sake of keeping you immersed, which is something it is generally praised for btw, if you looked at a paper map of the city you're in, would you be able to immediately pinpoint exactly where you are on that map, and passively, constantly update your location based on where you go? "patching flaws" in the knights moveset is an odd way to put it imo, it's different for a reason, but some players just can't get used to it, thus they're going againt the intended way of playing, so these features costing charm notches makes sense in my mind. Wandering around aimlessly in hollow knight is inherently fun because of how much stuff they put into it. The map markers and stuff cost money because it's a logical world that establishes some realism and sticks to it. the markers and things are literal physical objects in the world that the knights is manually placing out when they get a moment to rest, and because of lore reasons, the knight has basically nothing when he reaches dirtmouth, it would not make sense for him to have fucking map markers and nothing else I think difficult platforming sections are a way, wayy better showcase of skill-based movement than memorizing how often to click a button over and over and over again. There is so much Geo you can easily collect if you're not a bitch, and since you've played so many metroidvanias, I would expect you to both be competent considering hollow knight's very simple combat and to play aggresively. Maps, Stags, the quill, are really, really cheap. It's basically just the lumafly lantern that's actually kind of expensive and you have to save up for. The Crystal dash isn't conducive or satisfying to use because it's simply not intended as a general movement option, it's purpose is to block off areas and for tight, meticulous platforming like in the white palace. not being able to plan out where you wanna go is literally just a skill issue, do you not know how to count lefts, rights, ups and downs? like my mental notes when mapping out a path are literally just like "keep going left until the 2nd hole down, then go right and take the first hole down, etc", it is not complicated and you are just a whiny baby if you just took damage from spikes then that would eliminate basically all platforming challenges, I thought you liked skill-based movement? you could just tank your way through all these carefully designed challenges and gauntlets because you're not good enough at the game judging $60 AAA games and $10 indie games the same and holding them to the same standard is one of the most insane things I've ever heard in my life regarding video games, jesus christ
first flaw ive noticed is, theres another way to not get nail knockback that is exactly the kind of skill based stuff your looking for. upslashes dont knock you away but you have to get closer to the enemy, making it a risky way to get rid of this. and of course otherwise they are going to lock it away, the nail knockback can really harm your dps, so making it a one notch charm makes it so that you can increase your damage and get quality of life like this. secondly, the sign system absolutely cuts it, it guides you where you need to go, and they are placed all over the place to guide you in the correct direction the thing about the map not being intuitive is also just false? like i never had difficulties looking at the map and seeing "oh right over there is a room transition ive never entered" money is not your main source of progression ever. nothing is ever locked behind money that it necessary, and usually you get more than enough money from defeating bosses for anything you need in the game. backtracking to a bench to equip charms is super important for many of the lategame challenges, like pantheon 5, a boss rush of all bosses where you get access to a bench to change stuff only every 5-10 floors. the active skills you find in game *can* be used immediately, in fact the game gives you a quick tutorial section after picking any of them up like say vengeful spirit with its short section on how to use it. exploration in hollow knight has been widely agreed to be one of its strongest parts, the multiple hidden rooms with small tidbits of lore you can find, whole bosses are hidden away for only if you explore well enough the random enemies are absolutely unique, in every area you find new enemies to fight that range from weak enemies sure, but some of them use shield that move out of the way when they attack so you can parry them, or they hide in shadows waiting for you to strike. the music is absolutely something i listen to outside of the game like all the time. songs like hive knight, Sisters of battle, Daughter of hallownest, broken vessel, the city of tears, and greenpath come to mind. 2 of which are area themes that make for great background music. the enemies start off as fairly similar looking but in later areas they grow to be super unique looking. look up some examples of enemies from the hive, or deepnest and they look very distinct from enemies from the city of tears or the forgotten crossroads, who look super distinct from queens gardens enemies or from greenpath enemies. alot of the enmies look similar to eachother, because they are in the same area and work together. and the lack of unique death animations is just false. its just not for unique enemies, its instead for unique ways of killing them. if you kill an enemy with your nail its corpse falls over, if you drop it in water by knocking it back, you see it desperatly try to swim up but fail, if you use a spell, it will burn up into a charred black corpse, and if you drop it in acid, it melts to name a few examples. that all being said, you clearly put a lot of thought into this video, and its really well made, i just think alot of your criticisms come down to personal preference instead of actual problems, and not finishing the game so missing some of the later areas (like the hive as a big one) that really help make everything stand out
I didn't know that about vertical attacks. I'll admit, that certainly does sound like something that would've made combat more entertaining. That risk/reward factor would help in making normal enemies more engaging to fight. Silksong looks to be bringing more technical combat to the table, so hopefully it address some of the issues I had with Hollow Knight.
@@RushHourWeekendmy 1 issue with hollow knight is the sparse platforming sections(the only majorly demanding one being the path of pain, which is annoying to get to and not rewarding) and silksong seems to be adresssing that
i understand that I'm a fan of hollow knight but excluding that and the title and topic of this video i hate your voice idk what it is, but you make vegan gains and Sexy vegan sound angelic. Sorry this is just a personal preference and I do not know why it annoys me so. I hope you understand since you most likely edited this video yourself i wish your ears a speedy recovery for having to listen to 20:31 seconds of torture that would impress tear gas and makes the brazen bull and blood eagles look like a splinter. Now sorry for this comment that is properly not going to be red i wish no harm upon you, your voice has got that covered for me good day sir
This video said almost nothing. 99% of it was: "Hollow Knight has a feature. Here is something arguably annoying about it. Castlevania has a similar feature. This feature is the greatest thing Ever and Oh My God holy Fuck I Love Castlevania!!" It's a useless comparison. Instead of taking the game on its own merits, it has to conform perfectly to what you think the 'ideal metroidvania' is. You can point out that it's different, sure, but to start with the conclusion that another specific way of doing it is indispitably better is bad faith. The parts where you were just talking about mechanics that you like in Castlevania were nice, though, and the brief enthusiasm was a nice break from the Why not focus on that instead of this clickbait brainrot
Rabi Ribi is more interesting than Hollow Knight. In Rabi Ribi, you dont have these dash button but you can move faster by doing short jump then quick fall, by doing so you actually look like doing a bunny hopping. I find it brilliant as it felt kinda related to your mc being a bunny girl.
Rabi Ribi is another game where I think the boss fights are great - it probably has some of the most enjoyable boss fights in the genre - but I'm not a big fan of the exploration side. Thankfully that game sends bosses your way pretty frequently.
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Are you talking about the Hall of Memories? You can just spam air dash past the enemies. The whole area is unfun but it should only take a few minutes per checkpoint.
Hollow knight is one of those games where I love everything about it except actually playing it. The atmosphere is charming yet haunting, the OST is amazing, the hand-drawn art is very good, etc, yet the devs seem to confuse tedium with difficulty with every design decision. Probably the most overrated game ever made.
ive never found the game tedious, areas like godhome have very fun and engaging but difficult content, such as the bindings, radiant mode or the eternal ordeal, specify what exactly is so tedious
@@TaroTheBee Off the top of my head, 1) Boss runbacks. They're annoying, especially on certain sections like the Mantis Lords and Soul Master. They're either a complete waste of time if the runback is easy, or infuriating if the runback is difficult. Just put a checkpoint outside the boss room, even if it's like a Stake of Marita where you can't change your physick/spells (charms in HK). 2) The entire idea of a runback to get your focus pool/geo back in an "exploration platformer" makes no sense to me. If I die in a level, I might want to explore another direction but feel compelled to run back to get my stuff, especially in the early game where there's a lot of things in the shop that we need to buy. And making it so you need to kill your shade to get your stuff back is asinine, it just makes the difficult part that you died at even more difficult. 3) It feels that the nail's hitbox isn't big enough, while the enemies have contact damage and bigger-than-expected hitboxes for their attacks. The knight also moves slowly and doesn't have the i-frame dodge for most of the game. This encourages a defensive poke-and-retreat playstyle that's boring. You can fix this with the charms, but those cost charm points. But since other design inconveniences can be fixed with the charms, you have to give something up to fix this. 4) Buyable benches lmfao. An ultimate "screw you" to the player if they somehow made it to the next bench without getting enough geo, probably because you need a charm point to automatically collect the geo instead of having it scatter everywhere. I can understand locking the stag stations but why the checkpoints? Skill issue? Probably. But I didn't find the game fun enough to practice getting good instead of finishing with a low completion percentage and the bad ending just to say I finished it.
@@randomUTcommenter 1) yeah, benches being closer to especially the soul master would be a better idea, but these bosses arent tedious on their own, you can reach the mantis lords as soon as you get wall jump, and wall jump is in the room right above them, and the main reason to travel to the city is to find the soul master and obtain the desolate dive, but i, again, agree that it would be better if there were benches closer to these two bosses. 2) its meant to be punishing, its a death mechanic, its also meant to teach you to use benches as much as possible and to make you actively feel like youre in danger, and i personally did not find the shade killing asinine, the sade is quite weak, and will eventually not attack you once you progress enough. 3)if you feel that the nail is too smallyou can use charms like longnail or MoP, but i do agree that at first the nail is hard to use, it encourages running away and does little damage, this is balanced by the spells in the early game, and the nailsmith later on, as well as charms that augment the nail(strength, elegy, steady body, etc) some of your problems with hollow knight are a part of the progression system, and if its not for you i dont have a problem with that, but these are problems that i personally found minimal or get fixed later. 4) the benches being buyable can be annoying if you lose your shade but geo is in abundance, since enemies and caches can drop it
Hollow Knight's aesthetics are boring to me visually and functionally. The world is so extremely samey between areas which compounds your map issue. It is so fucking difficult to remember where things are in this bloated, boring to traverse, bland looking, and inelegant 2D map design. It kills me how anyone levied this complaint toward Metroid Dread but no one except you and Nerrel brings it up with Hollow Knight when it is MUCH worse here. A game like Subnautica with NO map has extremely distinct, easy to track biomes with different sounds, drastically unique flora/fauna, colors, lighting solutions, and gimmicks. And that game takes place entirely underwater. This game was held up as some impossible to beat standard by people who value playtime over *play*. You talk to it's rabidly devout fanboys and they praise it because "game big" and "there's stuff everywhere" despite the majority of things you find being underwhelming or worthless. It's fake density. It seemed like for hours I was just finding things meant to be sold, "lore" shit, or the moveset patches instead of finding an actual game mechanic. It feels like every other safe 2D indie game, takes hours to finally get started, and wants to be as slow as possible. In the time it took me to quit this one I could have beaten Metroid 1.
while some areas are samey, especially at the beggining with the kings past and crossroads, there is a lot of map distinction, greenpath looks different from city, which looks different from kingdoms edge, which looks different from the hive etc. and i do agree that some of the rewards for exploring suck, others are super great, after expliring the gardens and the palace and fusing the mingsoul, going to the very bottom of the world and unlocking an item that gives you four new endings was very enjoyable for me at least. and there are actually uniqe flora and fauna that fit the areas in hollow knight, the imposing gaurds of city east wing, the warriors of the colluseum, the ferral beasts and spiders of deepnest and the unsettling siblings within the abyss are all quite good examples of diversity, there are map markers for areas like shops, benches, wispering roots, and lifeblood coocoons if you find them hard to find, the game is also designed to not have you staring at a map for 50 hours and encourages getting lost and stumbling onto things.
Fricking horrible take my two favorite locations in the game are literal exact opposites look at kingdoms edge and greenpath did you even beat false knight?
"This game is not a metroidvania. Here's why." proceeds to ignore Metroid like the plague
I have to say, I don't get why you said Hollow Knight isn't a metroidvania. Metroid made the metroidvania genre, not Castlevania, and there are no rpg elemets to be found in Metroid. Just like Hollow Knight, the only progression is based on finding new powerups, not improving stats.
the game rewards you for remembering the map thats why opening the map is delayed and makes you slower
"Hollow Knight isnt Castlevania so its not good" maybe, just maybe the game isnt for you? have you considered that? does that immediatly make it a "bad" game? no the fuck it doesnt
In the skill-based movement section you pointed out how there's no mechanic for the mothwing cloak (the dash) to time between each dash, and therefore it's not as satisfying or rewarding as Castlevania, following it up by saying that HK has poggo and Castlevania does too, which the sub text of is "Castlevania did that first". I don't understand, do you want this game to be the same or different from Castlevania? The dashing is made that way because it makes that movement more of a commitment in parkour sections (which the game is full of) and damaging attacks, built with the timing of the cloak in mind to be risky to perform. It's simply a different direction and decision from something they have taken inspiration from. It's called doing art.
*dodging attacks, sorry for the spelling mistake
Who let bro cook 😭😭😭
he charred the food
I think this one quote is a good example of what the issue with your video is:
"There is a difference between not knowing where to use your new-found power to proceed, and not knowing where the hell you are"
There is indeed a difference, but this difference in approach is exactly what makes Hollow Knight much more appealing than Castlevania to me. Just having to remember where the spots that you couldn't interact with the last time were isn't very engaging on its own. It can feel very arcadey and, at its worst, just like an arbitrary waste of time. On the other hand, getting lost in a once lived-in world doesn't magically reveal itself to you can be a very immersive experience.
Many of your other criticisms fall into the same camp: you want Hollow Knight to be more like Castlevania, without realizing that what makes Castlevania games unique doesn't come without its cost.
I respectfully disagree
I’ll take it a step further, I disrespectfully disagree.
TL:DW, I like pressing more buttons when I move, and I have bad sense of direction so I get lost, so the game is bad.
Like 80% of his complaint is that he can’t press more buttons when he’s moving.
Bro really said a glitch that makes you go faster makes the whole game better💀💀💀
@@Ender30 Intended mechanic by the devs actually
theres a reason you can cancel your backdashes and its not an oversight
Play Super Metroid and then come back to this and reevaluate your statement
This has to be rage bait
This why we can't have good things.
I mean, “Metroidvaina” refers to Metroid and Castlevania.
As far as I know Metroid has almost no RPG elements, so I don’t know why you consider that an essential part of what a Metroidvania is.
i like hollow knight, so i am here to defend it. my critisisms should be taken with a grain of salt as i have played neither any metroid titles, nor any castlevania titles (though i think the netflix show rocks)
according to wikipedia the defintion of a metroidvania is:
(a sub-genre of action-adventure games and/or platformers focused on guided non-linearity and utility-gated exploration and progression. The term is a portmanteau of the names of the video game series Metroid and Castlevania).
hollowknight absolutely meets this definition as many areas are blocked off by not having certain utilities, like the dash, shade dash, or double jump. this is actually seen very early in the game, as you are not able to pass the elder baldur into greenpath without using the vengeful spirit spell, your first ranged attack.
while the leveling system in hollow knight is not as obvious as in Super Metroid or in Castlevania, you can get stronger by collecting charm notches, spells, upgrading spells to their void versions, getting more health (masks) or doing more damage (nail upgrades). though each of these are upgraded individually, it does show that hollow knight is more moldable to suit the player. instead of a steady statistic increase, you get better at HK (hollow knight) by learning bosspatterns, getting better charms, using your limit resources (charm notches) to build a playstyle that you like. maybe you play more defensively and have health boosting charms, or maybe you have an all melee build, boosting damage, strike length and strike speed. you might even focus more on spells, or nail arts (special sword attacks), and because of hollowknights unique way of giving the player access to limited resources you can mould your combat experience to better suit you.
HK absoluetly has skilled movement, but because you've never beaten the game it's likely that you just havent seen it. While you are absolutely correct, early game HK is quite annoying, the dash recharge time is fairly quick, and since one of HK's many strengths is room design and atmosphere, they dont really want you to rush through every room. HK is instead very generous with its fast travel options, making stag stations ir tramways accessible almost everywhere (royal waterways is a notable exception, but thats only relevant for the godmaster dlc, which is usually very late game content). hollow knights skill based movement comes in the form of presicion platforming. places like the white palace, and the path of pain are where hollow knight really strains the player in term of control over the knight. additionally, many grubs (collectibles) and other upgrades are locked behind increasingly difficult platforming or combat sections, which gives the game a good sense of progression. If you are very adamant on fast movement options however, wall cling storage in earlier versions of the game is a glitch that requires a lot of skill to pull off, but allows speedrunners to blitz through rooms. (nitpick but saying that HK is poorly designed and then saying that it shares a really cool feature with castlevania kind of comes off as saying that castlevania is poorly designed, though ik thats not what you're going for). Castlvania absolutely has smoother movement, and its very calibrated to a players skill level, but hollow knight also excells in movement through more ability oriented level design. you mention that in some rooms, the superdash is absolutely neccesary. this is because the rewards in those rooms are meants for after you have reached the point of the game where you can superdash. just like how redire is a reward for completing the optional room and gives a great reward, superdash (C-Dash) in hollow knight is a tool that allows you to unlock great rewards. falling off of platforms is a skill issue tbh. you can jump over enemies and pogo, or if you are close enough you can slash upwards, which has a small hitbox around the knight, and you take no knockback, though to preform this you have to time it correctly (skill expression).
Hollow knight, as a game is one of the most beautiful showcases of room design, and enviormental storytelling. every single room in this game has an incredible amount of detail in the backgrounds, and works to further the overall feeling of emptiness and alonness, that feeling that you really are alone. each area in the game also has area based storytelling, for example in greenpath, we see that its overflowing with vegetation, and we learn later that in queens gardens, another area overflowing with greenery, that it was overtaken by the nympho queen the white lady, and this is visible in the extra mechanical setpieces, which we can cross reference with the white palace, a place that has a lot of buzzsaws and other mechanical set pieces. Or we can look at the forgotten crossroads, while originally barren and empty, if you progress enough in the game it becomes the infected crossroads, and while that does limit movement, and that is annoying, it also shows the player what the consequences are if the radience (the infection that is controlling the enemies) goes unchecked.
the map pins, quill, and navigation charm are all very cheap and very accessible early in the game. you are meant to pick up all the pins with all the money you make from beating the first boss (the false knight) and then you can buy those quality of life charms from selubra by collecting the ridiculous amount of geo (HK currency) from greenpath.
the navigation issue is another skill issue, if you cant understand that you need to go very far to the left, and then down two rooms to get to the bench, then thats a you problem. most rooms are not square, and not making every room uniform adds to the immersion. for a first playthrough, map issues are quite common, but by your second or third playthrough you are usually able to memorize your route because all the rooms are so unique and memorable. hollow knight doesnt need sign or landmarks, because you should be able to tell what room you are in by cross referencing the shape of the room with the shapes on the map. most rooms dont even have multiple transitions that go the same direction so you should still be able to mentally map out 2 rooms right 3 rooms down.
charms in hollow knight are geared towards how you want to play the game. if you equip a bunch of quality of life charms, like gathering swarm, dashmaster, wayward compass, and steady body (though steady body is actually a monstorous combat charm if you're good) then you will most likely lag behind in combat. if you equip a bunch of combat charms, then you will more easily get lost or lose out on money. giving the player so many easy options to progress takes away from core give and take of the charm system. Many areas also reward exploration in the areas with geo, or collectibles, because the game developers want to drill the envoirment and feel of the area into the player, and providing such a good incentive for staying in the area gives the player a sense of satisfaction. Geo explodes everywhere for a similar reason. while i concede that it is annoying sometimes, staying in and exploring a room really allows you to be immersed in the world of HK.
the idea that in early game geo is your main source of progression is wrong. you get your first spell without needing geo, you get the dash without needing geo, you get the wall jump without needing geo, and you get your first nail (sword) upgrade without geo.
saving charm builds is a very good point. it would be really cool if you could do that. that would be very neat.
continuation: most of your time is actually spent fighting bosses. the godmaster DLC is an area with no exploration, and with 5 boss rush levels, also introducing a handfull (i think 10?) new bosses. if you want to do absolutely everything in the game, more than half of your time will be spent in godhome, an area where you can access any boss at any time provided that you have unlocked them. the boss fights also absolutely tie into exploration. the fodder enemies in areas detail and advance the enhancement in an area, culminating in a boss that you fight, the boss usually being a product of the enviorment. the brooding mawlek is sad because of the two mawlek colonies, all its friends died, and all the other mawleks are in the other colony. nosk is the creepiest boss, and an imitation hunting bug, and lures you in by looking exactly like the player model. nosk also just so happens to be in the darkest and scariest area in the game. is this because boss good and area bad? or is it because team cherry, the developers of the game were very considerate in when and where they put each boss, and how each boss would effect its enviorment, and vice versa. this is seen in so many more bosses too, traitor lord lives with all the other traitor mantises, and the traitor mantises, despite being fodder characters, are so intersting, and usually have 2-3 moves. the dungdefender lives in the sewers underneath the capital city, because he used to be a great knight that defended the pale king, but when the pale king died, and most of the other great knights too, he sank into the sewers, he lived in shit because he probably felt like shit.
you missed a save point in the clip where you showed the trek back to the bossfight, and you also needlessly backtracked in a few spots. also if your point is that in castlevania bossfights are very difficult as compared to previous games, and hard=good, then you should explore more of the godmaster dlc, as there are augmented challenge bosses (radient/ harder versions of previous bosses) availible.
if the game let you sit in the spikes, that would make platforming and pogoing very janky. the level design in hollow knight is amazing, and even though it focuses more on platforming than the average metroidvania, it also has incredibly deep combat based features, like the aformentioned godmaster dlc, the colloseum of fools, the grimmtroupe dlc, and the warrior dreams. (sidenote, all hollow knight dlc's are completely free, so missing out on content cuz u cant afford it is not a concern). teleporting back to a safe space is a staple in many platforming based games, such as celeste, mario bros, and more. taking inspiration from critically acclaimed and very popular platforming games to improve your platforming is not a bad thing, just like taking inspirations from other great works of media like bloodbourne is not a bad thing.
I have been glazing the level design without giving enough reasons, so heres a few reasons why hollow knights rooms are well designed. Hollow knight rooms like to slowly build up mechanics overtime, so that when you get deep into areas, you are familiar with what you have to do. a very easy way to do this is to limit the players options. for example, when you first start the game, the only things you can do are move, jump, swing your nail, and heal. so when you try to walk into a door, and it doesnt work, and you cant jump over it, your only option left is to swing your sword. once you see it break, you will probably understand what to do when at the end of the starting area, where your final challenge is a giant door blocking your way. after you hit it a few times, it breaks, just like how when you hit the smaller doors, they broke too. HK also rewards exploration with geo rocks, grubs, and other collectibles, and often shows you a cool colectible, like one that would increase your health, or a charm, but give you no way to get there. thats usually because you are meant to go back after you unlock more movement options, which shows that team cherry knew exactly what movement options and rewards they should give you at all points in the game. Hollow knights rooms also have tons of varied enemies, from the basic goomba acting ones, to flying ones, to rolling ones, tomore complex ones, like the elder baldurs, who are immune to meelee attacks, but spit out baldurs which you can kill for soul, allowing you to cast a ranged attack to kill it. theres a room which has a pit fall, which is completely inescapable unless you can kill one of two baldurs beside you, and if you kill the optional one, you get a charm. while hollow knights room designs arent anything groundbreaking, they are better than most video games, and are definetly not tedious or repetetive.
the general consensus on hollow knight music is that its very good. while the castlevania song you played absolutely slaps, there is no denying that HK's music is really good. you not liking it is a personal preference, and doesnt really match in terms of objectively critiquing HK as a metroidvania, or even as a game in general.
HK enemies actually do have pretty neat and satisfying death animations. watching them recoil and fade out into the background is nice, and the white and orange explosion outwards is cool. where death animations really shine, however, is in the boss fights. broken vessel reaches out its hand towards you, before falling lifeless at your feet. dung defender explodes, and you can see him blast off into the background like team rocket from pokemon. many of the larger fodder enemies have chunks of their bodies expell outwards, and you can see them litter the floor, really showcasing the cuts you put into their shells.
in conclusion, a lot of your arguments are made on assumptions that are quickly debunked not only be a 10 second google search, but by your own standards. while castlvania is an excellent game, and a very good example to compare to, for a title called why hollow knight isnt fun to play, i would have expected more variation in the comparisons. the map and navigation of this game are geared towards having you be interested in discovering lore, appreciating scenery, and seeing the differences in atmosphere, enemy types, and bosses per area, but if you like high action, burst gameplay, then the main story of hollow knight isnt for you, because its a little bit mroe difficult to turn your brain off and mow through enemies. castlevania is an excellent game, a masterclass in combat and combat systems, but metroidvania's are also focused on platforming, and storytelling, and depriving hollowknight of the title of metroidvania because its not 100% geared towards maximum player ecstasy and combat is criminal. also critiquing the length of the game is stupid. you can beat the main story in 10 hours, or 5, or you can move past the main story and get the true ending in a longer amount of time, or you can move even further past that. saying that the game being 60 hours long isnt a selling point is like saying that the game having more content is worse than the game having less content.
entertaining video, but make sure that you thorougly examine the thing you are critiquing before complaining about it. saying that you can only get 5 hours into hollow knight, and that it isnt fun because you dont get far enough for it to be hard is just telegraphing that you arent looking for the hollow knight experience. the statement that you dismiss at the start of the video is 100% valid. if you dont like hollow knight because it offers a different experience, dont play it.
PROTECT THE HOLLOW KNIGHT FOR HALLONEST!!!!!! hollow knight is good game
He absolutely has to read this comment, it's perfect
@@arnavkhare-p2m now this is absolute psychopath material I'm not going to read this but please find help good sir i bid you a dew
OMG LET BRO COOK🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
wow, you *really* wanted this game to be castlevania instead of its own game
bro is legit onto nothing
bro needs a map on screen at all times lol
Get to the city of tears, then play a bit more.
After watching your entire critique, the points you have made are not true points, you frame your video and your criticisms as if what you are pointing out are inherently and objectively bad design choices, but that isn't the case, they're simply design choices you personally don't enjoy, and at one point you even speculate on no evidence just to try to insult Hollow Knight's developers, at 9:20 that is simply your own baseless speculation.
You claim there is a difference between not knowing where to use your new powers, and not knowing where you are, which is true, and I can see that you personally don't enjoy not knowing where you are, that is true for your experience, not for all of us, personally I like the way Hollow Knight does its maps and exploration.
To reiterate, your entire critique is just you explaining why you personally didn't enjoy the game, you even complain about the music, which is also subjective and many people love it. I don't have a problem with you expressing why a game isn't for you, I have a problem with the phrasing being built in a way to imply you speak the objective truth, and not your subjective experience.
all i'm getting from this is "i dont like this game because it did something different from what i've been playing my entire life" and thats not very awesome sauce
I hate to break it to you, but most of these "problems" are just personal preference. And geo is not a big part if progression, sure you can get some things but no main story place requires the lantern or any other things that you purchase
nail upgrades and more than half of gettable charm notches require geo, along with some extremely late game items. Until ancient basin you basically have no nail upgrades past the basic one, thats more than 80% into the game if you ignore the optional content.
@@Vivek10010 By the time you can get nail upgrades and more charms, you also have lemm, which let's you rack up lots of geo easily. This encourages exploration and backtracking because it is the best way to get money besides maybe the Colosseum, which fixes the late game geo issue, whatever that issue even is.
@@tessal6555 By the time you get your first pale ore and a decent amount of charm notches, the game is almost over.
@@Vivek10010 its only over if you aren't rushing the game or something, maybe you can try the true ending? Or hold off on ending the game to yknow, EXPLORE the remaining areas? The exploration is encouraged way before the game gets close to ending, it only really begins to end when you get dream nail and again that's if you're RUSHING the game. Normally you'd get the dreamers on the sideline as you do side quests and whatnot. Getting those charm notches requires exploring and so does that one pale ore.
@@tessal6555 Or maybe they could have given the upgrades way earlier? Sounds much better to me.
Jamming every essential ability to navigate into a charm system which conflicts with your offensive options also seems counter productive and only a way to scuff.
I ain't ever seen someone so wrong
just a massive skill issue dude
I will say this: Hollow Knight is fun, but it lacks in replayability
Its exploration is incredible, I'll give it that. Few games rival Hollow Knight in that aspect. But after beating the game, that's no longer a factor. This, with the lack of platforming challenges (Crystal Peak is a joke and White Palace is just one area) means that the main appeal for replayability is the combat. The combat is fantastic, but now I know where the objectives are, how to get to them and how to beat them easily. The Delicate Flower quest, which is amongst the hardest in the game, is not difficult anymore. Avoid enemies, use spells, don't walk into spikes, done. Godhome is straight up not fun past Pantheon 3.
I also agree that Hollow Knight doesn't have enough skills for a game of its size. I'd say good example of progression is Ori and the Will of the Wisps. The game starts off with no abilities unlocked, but a couple of hours in you have a double jump, wall jump, a dash, a grapple, around 3 weapons and of course, the BASH. Compare this to Hollow Knight, where you have a dash and a wall jump.
The visuals and audio are not that special. Cristopher Larkin did great with what he had and it does set up the atmosphere VERY nicely, but as you said, they're nothing to play regularly. Tracks like Sealed Vessel and Radiance are great, but I'm not listening to them outside of the boss fights. Area themes, even less so. Now, the visuals are pretty, they look good and they do the job, but I won't be saying 'Yeah, Hollow Knight looks beautiful'. Why am I saying this? Because audio and visual design fundamentally changes your game. If it's forgettable or bland, I won't want to play the game.
I have spoken
bro doesn't know about path of pain
I legitimetaly just commented that
What the hell the exploration was one of my favorite thing you got short term memory lost or smth i barely used maps in my first playthrough
crazy how wrong a person can be
I don't think he's wrong. Just because you don't like the same things doesn't mean someone is wrong. This is coming from someone who loved Hollow Knight btw...
@@jom1718 he most certainly is wrong. Calling a video “why hollow knight isn’t fun” is crazy work when it has millions of adoring fans. Clearly it’s extremely fun to play. Hence he is wrong. It is a fully objective opinion that he tried to play off as fact
@@jom1718 Yes he is wrong
@@SpremeCalami Yea it is objectively a good game. I don't recall him stating his opinion was fact at any part of the video tho.
most of your gripes are intended elements that are taken from other genres which is also why it doesn't fit any genre well. not being Castlevania doesn't make a game bad.
This is way too nitpicky
facts
Fully agree, some of the points were borderline ludicrous, and the rest of them boiled down to “this isn’t in castlevania so I don’t like it”
Confusing point calling Hollow Knight not a metroidvania because lack of rpg elements? Have you played metroid?
I think all of your criticisms are valid but personally I never had a problem with any of these things. I really enjoyed the feeling of exploring a world that felt nearly endless and that had so many distinct areas. There's a lot of friction in the gameplay, like the fact that you unlock your movement very slowly. I feel like this just made the game better for me tbh; it helped me ground to the world of hollow knight. I'm not the sort of person who typically plays games for exploration or vibes, but honestly hollow knight was an outlier for me in this regard. The fact it took time to find the bosses, made them feel ultimately so much more rewarding. Exploring the game was kind of like putting together a large puzzle.
They are not valid bro all he said were piss poor comparisons and showing he is bad at the game
I feel like a way better name for this video would be "my problems with Hollow Knight" but ofc that wouldn't get people like me to watch. I understand your issues but personally I love the gameplay. It feels less like an action packed exploration and more like a methodical adventure. Whenever you rest at a bench you can look and see where else you could have gone on that path. The money flying around to me feels like a non issue and seeing the enemies explode into collectable couns just makes it really satisfying to pick it all up after an arena/just exploring. Money never feels like its explicitly tied to progression save one case because every charm is optional and most can be found lying around or picked up after a boss. And the music is somthing ill throw on while reading/ exploring in another game because it's not aggressive and in your face, and the fact it's semu reactive to what you're doing (ie. Greenpath crystal dash/ shellfly pogo room or arenas) just make it feel way more alive than just a looping track that only changes with each area. I respect what you're saying but most of the problems you bring up are non issues if you really get into the game.
I think you touched upon the reason why so many people love this game, and that's atmosphere. When compared to the games in this genre that I love (Metroid and Castlevania), Hollow Knight is slower paced, and that's certainly to going to appeal to people in ways that Metroid and Castlevania don't.
sorry but making a title that feels hateful of a beloved game by many is a horrible idea so no condolences for this mans actions are deserved, a opinion of this caliber deserves to be picked apart and scrutinized as saying you don't like the game because you don't like the game would of been better on a comment not a 20 minute video i can't watch because of your voice no offence sir
@@RushHourWeekend I feel like you only cited castlevania and never once talked about metroid a game many are much more familiar with and is much closer in feel to hollow knight.
I don't know about you I did not need to constantly open my map I just explored got lost found bosses and items and when you eventually find a bench youll know where you are, in my first playthrough I didnt even use the pin charm also there are usually alwas bench's near bosses theres maybe three boss you can say take long to get to and there all ez af so before the fight you can change from exploration charms to combat charms
You do know that castlevania is a different game from hollow knight entirely right? THEN STOP COMPARING EVERY THING TO CASTLEVANIA
This whole video felt like a “this game doesn’t play like ____ so I hate it” opinion. Most of your “problems” were just gameplay mechanics that weren’t in castlevania so you didn’t like it. Not to mention you didn’t even bring up Metroid once. “The art style is fine” is a highlight for me, like I actually laughed out loud.
You can’t expect people to accept your video as your opinion when you call the video “why hollow knight isn’t fun to play”. For the love of god just change it to “why I don’t like hollow knight” and I’ll be happier. Try telling millions of adoring fans that hollow knight is a bad game. Do you expect us to be like “ohh right! I thought it was fun but all the things you’re saying makes me realise I didn’t enjoy it after all! My mistake silly me.” I have no problem with someone not liking the game but attempting to convince millions of players that one of their favourite games is bad is crazy work. It would be like me saying valorant is a bad game. Sure I fucking hate it but millions of people play it so clearly it’s doing it’s job as a videogame well.
If this was made as a joke then fair play, I was half suspecting throughout the video because some of the points you were making were borderline ludicrous. The fact that you had a problem with the tiny TINY delay in opening the map is foul lmao
you don't really need the quality of life charm upgrades in Hollow Knight, they are more like, if you really don't like it, turn it off, but at a cost. Not showing you on the map serves to make you work to find the right path and teaches you to navigate. This can give you a satisfying sense of accomplishment when you finally learn to navigate the map or find yourself in a familiar place when you got lost precisely for not having your location pinpointed in an intentionally obscure map. The challenge is there, if you don't like it, turn it off...peak of game design imo in a game that wants to be punishing and wants you to master it, but at the same time, the developers understand that this can be tedious for some players, so they give you options to turn it off, with a small punishment, because the game wants you to work for it at least a little bit. The pogo is good whether it was in Castlevania or the other games or not. They use it well in Hollow Knight. Charms overall are there really to let you modify your journey with a budget of a few charm slots. That's why the process is so easy and streamlined, not some stat respec, but modification of your gameplay depending on the situation. This provides variety and experimentation, coupled with incentives for exploration through another great decision of filling in the map as you go, along with charm rewards, visual rewards. Shall I keep going? The game is clearly designed with intent of giving you a certain experience, there are incentives, rewards, limiting game design decisions for you to master or bypass with some creative options, intended or not. The game is amazing in this aspect, and I have never even started talking about the combat. You clearly know how to analyze a game, because you explained in great detail how the mechanics in Castlevania work. But you chose not to understand them, and/or not to engage with them in Hollow Knight. If you don't want to put yourself trough it, fine, don't play the game. But then it is a shame when you make a video in which you are complaining without a good understanding of the mechanics or the developer intentions. So maybe ask yourself, why even make this video? Is it worth it to just let all that spite out without thinking it trough, or would it maybe better to ask why the hell everyone loves this game, and I don't and genuinly trying to find out why. I know what I would want to watch much more.
For skillful movement, you complained it was easy and simple yet it took you 5 hours to not even be half way through the game. The game has been completed in 30 minutes. If that doesn't tell you that there is skill required I don't know what does. I'd highly recommend watching an any percent run
Only good point was the geo collection.
yeah and the game gives you so much geo from chests it does even matter
BS. "Why I don't like Hollow Knight" is a better title. It's an objectively good game.
i dunno man, hollow knight is one of my favorite games of all time
you can have your opinions but dont deploy false information like hollow knight not being a metroidvania
you also didnt even beat the game and probably didnt even unlock most of the moveset
And tried to make his opinion a fact
Wanna know the difference between Hollow Knight Pogoing and Castlevanias pogoing. PATH OF PAIN. POGOING IS ACTUAL MOVEMENT NOT JUST oh cool i bounce off enemies
Bro, that video is just an excuse for you to say that castlevania is better (in your opnion) than hollow knight. Most of the problems you've said in this video was about how boring and slow exploration was in the game, since the other mechanics you criticize during the video is not even relevant because it is based on the same thing, exploration, hollow knight is meant to be something you absorb during the game, the whole point of this video is how you wanted to have a fast food but instead had to buy and cook the ingredients.
Also if you need to open a map each 0.2 seconds to play a game, you're playing map simulator
you cooked the full meal here 🔥🔥🔥
Hollow Knight and Castlevania are different games, made by different devs, in different eras of gaming. Just because Hollow Knight is *different* doesn't mean it is worse. If you don't enjoy HK, fine, it's not your cup of tea. I just don't get why you felt the need to make a 20 minute video explaining your discomfort with unfamiliar game mechanics.
Edit: Also, as a rule of thumb, I really feel like you should at least finish the game before giving it a review. I'm not saying that's going to change your opinion or anything, but it might give you a little bit of perspective as to why people love this game.
i think he didn't get all the abilities or spells
This video is just "Hollow Knight is not Castlevania, which means it's bad"
Different genres. Plus, metroid never had any skill points and leveling system (so Castlevania is now bad because it just gives out abilities with no repercussions). You compared different game mechanics with different purpuses in different genres. By that logic any game with exploration that's not Castlevania is bad.
Don't get me wrong, it is your right to not enjoy HK as much as Castlevania games. But please don't pretend to be objective on this, you don't need to.
this video pisses me off
6:20 or, you can quickly do a small jump and pogo the enemy. that's SKILL BASED MOVEMENT, like you were complaining about Hollow Knight's apparent lack of. I also don't know why you hate customization in games so much, the charm system is a good way of letting players play how they want to.
The amount of people crying about the title of the video is insane. Obviously this is his opinion. Why does that need to be explicitly stated in the title? Do you struggle differentiating between facts and opinions unless every single statement is prefaced with “In my opinion?”
Discussing whether something is fun or not is already inherently subjective. Guess what. Most videos you’ve seen are subjective. But when you agree with it, it’s okay I guess.
You’ll live if other people think your precious game isn’t fun.
I'm not a Hollow Knight Expert, but having a low skill movement cap is not nessessarily a bad thing. Games like Pizza tower are based around Movement, While (I THINK) Hollow Knight is based around getting lost and exploring aswell as having simple combat mechanics, but really hard fights. So I agree 100% with the boss thing, Bosses are good. But I LOVED EXPLORING. I loved seeing new faces, I loved moving around and using my stuff and new abilties to just find new things. And I despise having stuff like type weaknesses and stuff while I am fighting a boss like Lost kin, Imagine if you had to change something to get diffrent types of attacks against a boss IN hollow Knight. It's not gonna work. Also. Why blame Hollow Knight ONLY ?? while stuff like Elden Ring or Shovel knight also force Progression lost on Death and force you to get back your money and take time. Shovel knight is not close to Hollow Knight anyways but still. my point is close. Yes its linear, but GOOD LORD IF YOU GET YOUR MONEY LOST IN A SECRET its pain. And well.. we don't talk about elden ring, I understand that SOMETIMES you can get angry when you loose against a boss and need to walk all the way back, but for me its not that the issue, I don't fit it hard or annoying, I just prepare myself, try some other loadout, test it on the way there, then we fight. I understand all the issues named, but I don't agree with most. If I want a complicated game with exploration ? Fine, play Castlevaina or stuff like Pokemon, but if I want a simpler game that's still hard but you don't need a BIBLE worth of text to play it : stuff like Hollow Knight fall in my range.
And finally : Why did you call Cornifer the "Map NPC" that man has a name T-T. I know its not a game related issue but c'mon man, respect the Cornifer.
And Yes I suck at explaining things, I am unable to write everything how I think it is. Cuz I'm bad at it. Hava nice day.
Is this the new Under the Mayo of Hollow knight?!
(One dude that said that ultrakill is bad because it's not Doom eternal basically)
Agree to disagree
i understand why you dont like hollow knight, but personally its my favourite game because of the end game mouvement and the end game boss fight like absolute radiance witch i think are really fun. But now i can more inderstand why my friends dont like the game, like you said the mouvement are not good at the start. so i just think that you compare a bit to much to metroid because they are not the same game where hollow knight is more in the charming visual (like every region having a differant color palette and theme) and nice interation with the npc (more like undertale) metroid look very skill base and not casual like you said moving can be difficult. and sorry english is not my first language:)
I think you are being far too kind. This man tried to explain an opinion and phrased it as if it was fact. He says that “hollow knight is not fun” when there are millions of players who aggressively disagree.
If he explained his points as if they were his opinion then I wouldn’t have a problem with this video
Massive skill issue
hollow knight actually is fun to play for most of people and one of the main reasons is that hk is fair and well-balanced game but the reason of being like this is lack of variety which is my main problem with game. Player have only one sword, 3 spells and very limited moveset. And unfortunately most metroidvanias that came after hollow knight trying to be like hk in this regard. I can remember only one game that came out recently and not trying to be like hollow knight or symphony of night, it's blasphemous 2. It has 3 weapons, much more spells and movement abilities than hk have.
Can't say I agree on your weird point of it not being a metroidvania seems like you just dont want it to be asscoiated with the greats(which i get) but otherwise yeah pretty much everything you said I agree with and unlike you (which will lead to people not taking waht you say seriously of course) I beat the game and did some optional content as well
I suppose what people enjoy about this game is just different then what we enjoy from metroid and castlevania still its a major disappointment that a game coveted as the best in the genre just turned out really boring for us
Bro hasn't feel the path of pain
This video is so opinionated
Agree
Good. At least it's interesting that way.
This guy only watches videos of people listing facts off Wikipedia pages I guess.
@@royaloreo1275 It would be good if the title said it first. But no, he says that the game IS BAD, and NOT FUN TO PLAY, like it is a law or something. But you know, you need to do this "catchy and rage bait" ahh title.
@@rextix
Subjectivity is implied. And like, a lot of people slathered praise and love over the game. This is a small channel, it's not like he's going to gaslight people into thinking they actually hated playing.
I only played for like three hours at most, before deciding I watched too much of this game on RUclips to enjoy gaming. But I formed some opinions. Dashmaster felt like overkill, and enabled dash downwards which added room for mistakes. And steady body seems like a challenge run, the knockback is vital to keeping distance between you and foes. If they were intrinsic I'd probably adapt, but those charms don't feel like quality of life, but a mechanical change
well the charms are meant to be a mechanical change and not QoL, take the sharp shadow charm, it will fuck up yourndash, making it a terrible charm in platform centric areas, such as the path of pain or the traitor daughter's grave, it makes ulp for this in its combat utility, the damage it does rewards you for using your shadow dash correctly and makes boss fights (especially ones like the traitor lord) noticably faster, or the steady body, which allows you to do much more damage than just holding foward, but puts you in more danger as it incentivizes getting close to a boss, which can put you at risk of getting damaged or the fact that sometimes the nail's knockback is a useful tool for escaping risky situations and removing that tool gives you less options
@@TaroTheBee The video claims some charms are quality of life, while I find them to be a challenge run charms.
@@royaloreo1275while some charms are QoL they are the small ones like swarm. and im not sure what you mean by "challenge run"
@@TaroTheBee steady body is insanity with quickslash. Literal god tier charm combo.
Interesting take, i never played a metroidvania like a manic dashing freak but more like im in a slow calculated mind. But if a played a Megaman o something like, i wish to play it like you said, chaining moves and cruising fast the levels. What I want to say is there is a diferent take in each metroidvanias more or less rpg, more or less speedy chain moves, etc...
Playing Castlevania games for the first time, I take them easy. I don't backdash everywhere and try to move quickly. But the reason why I enjoy replaying these games, and especially Super Metroid, is because of the movement options. In Super Metroid, you can wall jump, bomb jump, mockball, and arm pump all in the first 10 minutes of the game, and each one requires varying degrees of skill to execute well. Arm pumping is easy and doesn't really move you that much faster, while mockball is tricky to pull off but lets you sequence break the game.
@@RushHourWeekend I understand, and is a cool topic for a future video also. Games that reward mastery and knowledge on subsecuent replays, first to come to my mind are sonic, megaman and some rpg like FF8 (that you already talked about some days ago)
@@RushHourWeekendyour points are so Invalid. You criticise the game for the things it is. It would be like saying Dead Cells is bad cus you die a lot
@@RushHourWeekendoh and "you only have one weapon"- do you even know about spells? Vengeful spirit? Howling shriek? Descending dark?
You are incorrect about the definition of the Metroidvania genre. RPG mechanics are not a factor in it.
It is simply the gradual opening up of the "open world" through the unlocking of new abilities.
But I actually agree... Hollow Knight is not fun. But for me it was because of the very unnatural and floaty feel of the jump animation.
20 seconds into the video and hoh boy, you ignore half the name of the genre. it's METROIDvania and correct me if I am wrong, but that series doesn't have an rpg progression system.
i disrespectfully disagree.
oh boy this is one hell of a review but ill go through this step by step.
Someone else in the comments explained the metroidvania thing so look at their comment if you got concerns and whatnot so ill leave it at that and go onto the skill based movement argument.
while yes I can see ecclesia has skill based movement, i dont understant why you dont think hollow knight isnt skill based. all you talked about were dash cancels and while that is very cool and rewarding for skilled players, hollow knight has its strengths in its movements. every basic movement in hollow knight requires skill, you mentioned pogoing in castlevania, but the way hollow knights pogoing is done is in a way for the player to gain mastery over the mechanic, you are meant to reuse it and find creative ways to do things in the game with each ability that require and insane amount of skill to execute. lets take for example the The Hollow Knight fight, where pogoing is used in a pretty basic way, and doesent take much thought, but you may notice that you can parry in Hollow Knight and you can Pogo the things you parry. so in the hollow knight boss you can do some like, instead of dashing over the boss when he swings his nail, you can parry it, dealing more damage, getting rewarded for being better at the game whilst not taking any damage.
you take things like this and apply this to every single thing in the game down to the super dash and you have so much advanced movement tech its crazy, like you can skip traversing all of greenpath to get to hornet by using you vengeful spirit and double casting to make the trip to hornet that much shorter.overall this skill based movement just come from a lack of time spent in the game which is apparent through most of this review this is only the start.
for the Maps in Hollow Knight team cherry took inspiration from many games and the whole thing with cornifer if i can recall was something from another game i dont exactly remember but the entire point is for the player to recognize where they are and where they started with clues given from the roughly drawn map and the fleshing it out once you LISTEN to cornifer and go to his shop. you are correct all the markers are meant to be bought all at once that is the point for casual players. i dont understand why you took the piss out of the game for that since the entire point of it is for beginners. can i mention that hollow knights map, while large is easily memorized? i left the game for 2 years came back and still remembered where to go because the map in the game is memorable, and theres more than enough things for casuals to get a hold aswell. again with simple reading comprehension you will know where to go and what to do and most areas are designed in a way to lead you roughly to the next closest place that is safe like with fog canyon and how it makes you descend into the queens station stag.
another thing to not is that, when you get lost in this game that usually means you have the possibility to find something new. in hollow knight getting lost is just another way to level up and get stronger since theres something literally everywhere and as long as you can follow a path you are fine, the game wants you to get lost to explore these things and as mentioned the game does try to lead you the best it can. getting lost in hollow knight is rewarding and your not really told to backtrack since you can easily get to a bench since they are everywhere.the map isnt really that cumbersome whatsoever and with visual cues you are lead in the right direction. to mention the grid style map argument, brother grow up this isnt a carbon copy of castlevania. the game gets you to adapt to the map in its runtime and works for the most part since i can barely remember where i put my phone yet i know the entire map of hallownest. about the big rooms, the game is big and it would be inconvenient to have these small rooms that serve no purpose. about the mini map point, again the game wants you to explore and get lost. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON YOUR MAP EVERY 2 SECONDS.
progression is not tied to money. the money you get in hollow knight is accumulated and you dont really need the money for the most part since exploration is the name of the game. with this i kinda just felt like you thought you had to play this specific way because of the games you played in the past instilling the idea this is a the way the game is meant to be played. its not, and progression is not tied to money but the upgrades and level ups you get along the way and since its non linear you get alot especially after you get the mantis claw which open up, and this is not a joke, 95% of the map. there is stuff everywhere in this game you just gotta find it. take it one step at a time not everything has to be turbo speed all the time. hollow knight is a slow burn game you aren't meant to beat it fast. your point on gathering swarm is bad just strait up. that charm is a preference charm and doesent really server a purpose unless you need the money that badly (you dont). the charms are not meant to change how you play the game too much that is simply a you thing. you arent being forced to use any charms and i feel like this entire point is disingenuous to the entire design of hollow knight. you literally jsut choose what you like, that is until white palace but i know for a fact you never got there so ignore what i said. charms at the end of the day are preference and while there are objectively good charms like shaman stone, you are not forced to "power up" through them. most charms arent even bought. take quick slash which doubles your nail speed, you find it by desolate diving on a floor near oro's hut in the room over. exploration is rewarded, and while you arent forced to use quick slash, you have that option available. these charms are moer quality of life if you have them.
for the bosses section i actually agree with you for the most part, the trek is annoying and the fact that your shade hinders the game so much is annoying but you also have to recognize that its really easy to find shortcuts in this game just look at odd textures and hit walls and they may be breakable. while this doesent solve the issue it makes it much better but still i got no complaints there. the thing about the type weapons is odd tho like it just doesent matter in the grand scheme of things. you have nail go poke, its as easy as that while there are enemies and bosses that will sometimes only take damage from spells which you should jsut allways use since they are the optimal way to play.
for the section about design i feel i addressed most but lets talk about the warping. the hazzard warping in hollow knight is weird i agree but in the grand scheme of thing it is there the make levels be more cohesive and add punishment for not having a grasp of the prior mentioned mechanics. this really jsut come down to the devs were limited and warping was kinds the best option, tho i do agree that it does suck ass at times.
music and art. this is preference, just cuz you dont listen to the music doesent mean others dont. not everyone is you my man.
the mention of time restraint is fair, hollow knight is a logn game and if you dont have the time its fine. you arent being forced to play the game and you dont even have to get half the shit in the game cuz it almost all optional.
in conclusion what your reviews comes down to is just a flwaed view of the game and waht yo were expecting. you were expecting a castlevania game but you got hollow knight which does alotta new things with the genre and if thats not for you its fine but dont take that as its a bad game cuz hollow knight is an amazing game that i hold highly till this day. if you wanna experience the game the best way you have to throw away all preconcieved notions and just have fun getting lost in hallownest. if you dont have time then thats also okay. you dont have to play everyday, just open from time to time. its a slow burn my friend.
if theres any complaint ill try to answer them slowly but this is the gist of what i got to say.
absolutely perfect ragebait my friend, 10/10
Castlevania is a different game than hollow knight so why compare the two. You can like one and not the other or you can like both or none
This video couldve just easily been about what you like about Castlevania but instead you sum up your personal preference as objective positives to complain about another game. As you said at the start. If you dont like the game dont play it
Just incorrect. It’s like you convinced yourself it’s a platformer just so you could say bad incorrect things about it. I think you just don’t like exploring. It’s made slower on purpose, but the movement and combat is still tight. Do you enjoy exploring? But I don’t think you do, which is fine, but games like castlevania have a lot less of that, which is why I think Metroid is a much bigger part of metroidvanias, because there’s more exploration there. Also they’re trying to make enemies better in the sequel, with a 2-3 person team you would not be able to create the best enemies either. Also I will only give you 3 bosses where the run back is too long. Soul master, mantis lords, and dung defender (but if you lost to him you’re just bad). Every other boss is perfectly fine. That’s a cherry picked argument and you know it. Also just the fact that you check the map constantly tells me you don’t like exploration. Get lost! Literally! I challenge you to play the game without the map! It’s not the best but it makes it interesting in a different way. Songs in hk are way better in my opinion, you like your songs because you think your game is better, that’s it. Same thing for me but you need to at least understand that. For enemies, you literally don’t need death animations and I’m sorry again for a 2 PERSON TEAM that just literally has no money for that. Like I know you addressed it but it’s just not needed, not part of the design (hk is more cutesey, less grisly), and the devs couldn’t if they wanted to
holy shit, jesus christ, this is maybe the worst case of never separating what is your opinion from what you claim as objective fact, you literally never add "I think" or "in my opinion" before any statement, this game is universally beloved and considered one of the best games of it's year, easily top 5 indie games of the year, so have you considered that all these complaints you have are genuinely a you issue and not a game issue
the definition of words change over time depending on how they're used. With that in mind, Hollow Knight is in fact a metroidvania. Also, a game does not need to take inspiration frmo both metroid and castlevania to be a metroidvania, pulling from one of them is enough, it's just a convenient term because a lot of 2D platformers take inspiration from both, but it's not a requirement. Hollow Knight very obviously takes a lot more inspo from metroid than castlevania, so castlevania is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion, so stop going back to it and yapping about it.
With a well-designed world and map, there's not a really a need for a way to move quickly. Hallownest is a packed place, and there aren't many long sections of nothing where most people wish they were walking faster. I think team cherry intentionally made the knight walk pretty slowly and not have a way to run because they wanted you to absorb every element of the beautiful world they created. Sometimes the point of a world isn't just to get from point A at the start of the area to point B at the end.
Regarding maps, I think it makes sense what they did because the map isn't meant to be for the players, it's meant to be for the knight, and the players just happen to be controlling the map. The Knight wouldnt be able to look at their map if they havent taken a moment to draw what the map looks like, and I think it's reasonable they'd wait for a moment of rest on a bench to do that. This is just in general and applies to several other sections of your video, where I think Team Cherry thought what was actually logical instead of doing what most other games do. The Knight probably doesn't have perfect memory, so it's reasonable that it can be a hassle to backtrack (not that manually backtracking on foot is almost ever necessary at all if you've been buying stag stations). Dashmaster and sprintmaster are extremely rarely used because they're just not necessary. Same with Steady Body, it's very easy to get used to playing without it, and it takes up charm notches that more useful charms can fill. Again with the compass charm it's a matter of whats logical, probably for the sake of keeping you immersed, which is something it is generally praised for btw, if you looked at a paper map of the city you're in, would you be able to immediately pinpoint exactly where you are on that map, and passively, constantly update your location based on where you go? "patching flaws" in the knights moveset is an odd way to put it imo, it's different for a reason, but some players just can't get used to it, thus they're going againt the intended way of playing, so these features costing charm notches makes sense in my mind.
Wandering around aimlessly in hollow knight is inherently fun because of how much stuff they put into it.
The map markers and stuff cost money because it's a logical world that establishes some realism and sticks to it. the markers and things are literal physical objects in the world that the knights is manually placing out when they get a moment to rest, and because of lore reasons, the knight has basically nothing when he reaches dirtmouth, it would not make sense for him to have fucking map markers and nothing else
I think difficult platforming sections are a way, wayy better showcase of skill-based movement than memorizing how often to click a button over and over and over again.
There is so much Geo you can easily collect if you're not a bitch, and since you've played so many metroidvanias, I would expect you to both be competent considering hollow knight's very simple combat and to play aggresively. Maps, Stags, the quill, are really, really cheap. It's basically just the lumafly lantern that's actually kind of expensive and you have to save up for.
The Crystal dash isn't conducive or satisfying to use because it's simply not intended as a general movement option, it's purpose is to block off areas and for tight, meticulous platforming like in the white palace.
not being able to plan out where you wanna go is literally just a skill issue, do you not know how to count lefts, rights, ups and downs? like my mental notes when mapping out a path are literally just like "keep going left until the 2nd hole down, then go right and take the first hole down, etc", it is not complicated and you are just a whiny baby
if you just took damage from spikes then that would eliminate basically all platforming challenges, I thought you liked skill-based movement? you could just tank your way through all these carefully designed challenges and gauntlets because you're not good enough at the game
judging $60 AAA games and $10 indie games the same and holding them to the same standard is one of the most insane things I've ever heard in my life regarding video games, jesus christ
Urgh not again. Yet another person who tries saying that hollow knight isn't fun and is badly designed.
Finally someone agrees with me
Opinion wrong
is a great game, but not the second coming of christ
5:43 I think skillful movements need its own topic. Most of games I really enjoyed involves alot of skillful movements.
Absolutely it does. High skill-ceiling movement is a large contributor to the replay value of platformers for me.
Before watching this video, I'll just say something
Skill issue
bro i swear bait used to be believable, try harder please 😭
first flaw ive noticed is, theres another way to not get nail knockback that is exactly the kind of skill based stuff your looking for. upslashes dont knock you away but you have to get closer to the enemy, making it a risky way to get rid of this. and of course otherwise they are going to lock it away, the nail knockback can really harm your dps, so making it a one notch charm makes it so that you can increase your damage and get quality of life like this.
secondly, the sign system absolutely cuts it, it guides you where you need to go, and they are placed all over the place to guide you in the correct direction
the thing about the map not being intuitive is also just false? like i never had difficulties looking at the map and seeing "oh right over there is a room transition ive never entered"
money is not your main source of progression ever. nothing is ever locked behind money that it necessary, and usually you get more than enough money from defeating bosses for anything you need in the game.
backtracking to a bench to equip charms is super important for many of the lategame challenges, like pantheon 5, a boss rush of all bosses where you get access to a bench to change stuff only every 5-10 floors.
the active skills you find in game *can* be used immediately, in fact the game gives you a quick tutorial section after picking any of them up like say vengeful spirit with its short section on how to use it.
exploration in hollow knight has been widely agreed to be one of its strongest parts, the multiple hidden rooms with small tidbits of lore you can find, whole bosses are hidden away for only if you explore well enough
the random enemies are absolutely unique, in every area you find new enemies to fight that range from weak enemies sure, but some of them use shield that move out of the way when they attack so you can parry them, or they hide in shadows waiting for you to strike.
the music is absolutely something i listen to outside of the game like all the time. songs like hive knight, Sisters of battle, Daughter of hallownest, broken vessel, the city of tears, and greenpath come to mind. 2 of which are area themes that make for great background music.
the enemies start off as fairly similar looking but in later areas they grow to be super unique looking. look up some examples of enemies from the hive, or deepnest and they look very distinct from enemies from the city of tears or the forgotten crossroads, who look super distinct from queens gardens enemies or from greenpath enemies. alot of the enmies look similar to eachother, because they are in the same area and work together. and the lack of unique death animations is just false. its just not for unique enemies, its instead for unique ways of killing them. if you kill an enemy with your nail its corpse falls over, if you drop it in water by knocking it back, you see it desperatly try to swim up but fail, if you use a spell, it will burn up into a charred black corpse, and if you drop it in acid, it melts to name a few examples.
that all being said, you clearly put a lot of thought into this video, and its really well made, i just think alot of your criticisms come down to personal preference instead of actual problems, and not finishing the game so missing some of the later areas (like the hive as a big one) that really help make everything stand out
I didn't know that about vertical attacks. I'll admit, that certainly does sound like something that would've made combat more entertaining. That risk/reward factor would help in making normal enemies more engaging to fight. Silksong looks to be bringing more technical combat to the table, so hopefully it address some of the issues I had with Hollow Knight.
@@RushHourWeekendmy 1 issue with hollow knight is the sparse platforming sections(the only majorly demanding one being the path of pain, which is annoying to get to and not rewarding) and silksong seems to be adresssing that
the ragebait and clickbait is insane
fr, also w tboi pfp
i understand that I'm a fan of hollow knight but excluding that and the title and topic of this video i hate your voice idk what it is, but you make vegan gains and Sexy vegan sound angelic. Sorry this is just a personal preference and I do not know why it annoys me so. I hope you understand since you most likely edited this video yourself i wish your ears a speedy recovery for having to listen to 20:31 seconds of torture that would impress tear gas and makes the brazen bull and blood eagles look like a splinter. Now sorry for this comment that is properly not going to be red i wish no harm upon you, your voice has got that covered for me good day sir
This video said almost nothing. 99% of it was: "Hollow Knight has a feature. Here is something arguably annoying about it. Castlevania has a similar feature. This feature is the greatest thing Ever and Oh My God holy Fuck I Love Castlevania!!"
It's a useless comparison. Instead of taking the game on its own merits, it has to conform perfectly to what you think the 'ideal metroidvania' is. You can point out that it's different, sure, but to start with the conclusion that another specific way of doing it is indispitably better is bad faith.
The parts where you were just talking about mechanics that you like in Castlevania were nice, though, and the brief enthusiasm was a nice break from the Why not focus on that instead of this clickbait brainrot
Rabi Ribi is more interesting than Hollow Knight. In Rabi Ribi, you dont have these dash button but you can move faster by doing short jump then quick fall, by doing so you actually look like doing a bunny hopping. I find it brilliant as it felt kinda related to your mc being a bunny girl.
Rabi Ribi is another game where I think the boss fights are great - it probably has some of the most enjoyable boss fights in the genre - but I'm not a big fan of the exploration side. Thankfully that game sends bosses your way pretty frequently.
@@RushHourWeekend I stopped playing it once I reach THAT one part.
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Are you talking about the Hall of Memories? You can just spam air dash past the enemies. The whole area is unfun but it should only take a few minutes per checkpoint.
Love your videos dude keep it up . And I agree I never got why hollow knight is seen as god tier. I have it multiple chances too
bro sounds like the nerd emoji
Hollow knight is one of those games where I love everything about it except actually playing it. The atmosphere is charming yet haunting, the OST is amazing, the hand-drawn art is very good, etc, yet the devs seem to confuse tedium with difficulty with every design decision. Probably the most overrated game ever made.
ive never found the game tedious, areas like godhome have very fun and engaging but difficult content, such as the bindings, radiant mode or the eternal ordeal, specify what exactly is so tedious
@@TaroTheBee Off the top of my head,
1) Boss runbacks. They're annoying, especially on certain sections like the Mantis Lords and Soul Master. They're either a complete waste of time if the runback is easy, or infuriating if the runback is difficult. Just put a checkpoint outside the boss room, even if it's like a Stake of Marita where you can't change your physick/spells (charms in HK).
2) The entire idea of a runback to get your focus pool/geo back in an "exploration platformer" makes no sense to me. If I die in a level, I might want to explore another direction but feel compelled to run back to get my stuff, especially in the early game where there's a lot of things in the shop that we need to buy. And making it so you need to kill your shade to get your stuff back is asinine, it just makes the difficult part that you died at even more difficult.
3) It feels that the nail's hitbox isn't big enough, while the enemies have contact damage and bigger-than-expected hitboxes for their attacks. The knight also moves slowly and doesn't have the i-frame dodge for most of the game. This encourages a defensive poke-and-retreat playstyle that's boring. You can fix this with the charms, but those cost charm points. But since other design inconveniences can be fixed with the charms, you have to give something up to fix this.
4) Buyable benches lmfao. An ultimate "screw you" to the player if they somehow made it to the next bench without getting enough geo, probably because you need a charm point to automatically collect the geo instead of having it scatter everywhere. I can understand locking the stag stations but why the checkpoints?
Skill issue? Probably. But I didn't find the game fun enough to practice getting good instead of finishing with a low completion percentage and the bad ending just to say I finished it.
@@randomUTcommenter 1) yeah, benches being closer to especially the soul master would be a better idea, but these bosses arent tedious on their own, you can reach the mantis lords as soon as you get wall jump, and wall jump is in the room right above them, and the main reason to travel to the city is to find the soul master and obtain the desolate dive, but i, again, agree that it would be better if there were benches closer to these two bosses.
2) its meant to be punishing, its a death mechanic, its also meant to teach you to use benches as much as possible and to make you actively feel like youre in danger, and i personally did not find the shade killing asinine, the sade is quite weak, and will eventually not attack you once you progress enough.
3)if you feel that the nail is too smallyou can use charms like longnail or MoP, but i do agree that at first the nail is hard to use, it encourages running away and does little damage, this is balanced by the spells in the early game, and the nailsmith later on, as well as charms that augment the nail(strength, elegy, steady body, etc) some of your problems with hollow knight are a part of the progression system, and if its not for you i dont have a problem with that, but these are problems that i personally found minimal or get fixed later.
4) the benches being buyable can be annoying if you lose your shade but geo is in abundance, since enemies and caches can drop it
Definitely an overrated game. I played this during my metroidvania phase and got bored, so this video helped me understand why
Hollow Knight's aesthetics are boring to me visually and functionally. The world is so extremely samey between areas which compounds your map issue. It is so fucking difficult to remember where things are in this bloated, boring to traverse, bland looking, and inelegant 2D map design. It kills me how anyone levied this complaint toward Metroid Dread but no one except you and Nerrel brings it up with Hollow Knight when it is MUCH worse here. A game like Subnautica with NO map has extremely distinct, easy to track biomes with different sounds, drastically unique flora/fauna, colors, lighting solutions, and gimmicks. And that game takes place entirely underwater.
This game was held up as some impossible to beat standard by people who value playtime over *play*. You talk to it's rabidly devout fanboys and they praise it because "game big" and "there's stuff everywhere" despite the majority of things you find being underwhelming or worthless. It's fake density. It seemed like for hours I was just finding things meant to be sold, "lore" shit, or the moveset patches instead of finding an actual game mechanic.
It feels like every other safe 2D indie game, takes hours to finally get started, and wants to be as slow as possible. In the time it took me to quit this one I could have beaten Metroid 1.
while
some areas are samey, especially at the beggining with the kings past and crossroads, there is a lot of map distinction, greenpath looks different from city, which looks different from kingdoms edge, which looks different from the hive etc. and i do agree that some of the rewards for exploring suck, others are super great, after expliring the gardens and the palace and fusing the mingsoul, going to the very bottom of the world and unlocking an item that gives you four new endings was very enjoyable for me at least. and there are actually uniqe flora and fauna that fit the areas in hollow knight, the imposing gaurds of city east wing, the warriors of the colluseum, the ferral beasts and spiders of deepnest and the unsettling siblings within the abyss are all quite good examples of diversity, there are map markers for areas like shops, benches, wispering roots, and lifeblood coocoons if you find them hard to find, the game is also designed to not have you staring at a map for 50 hours and encourages getting lost and stumbling onto things.
Fricking horrible take my two favorite locations in the game are literal exact opposites look at kingdoms edge and greenpath did you even beat false knight?