As a data scientist, I had several ideas on how to improve on your approach. Then, I realized that your approach had one major advantage over all of my ideas - you were the one doing the work not me. Great job!
Doesn't matter if the method is bollocks as long as you can cite someone else work as the source. No one is ever going to go through the reference list to check the methodology.
hm, i had several near-heart attacks / bursts of rage when he explained his methods... Dont you actually love your discipline? And want to defend it from all those noobs?
@peka2478 For something as subjective as this? Absolutely not. There is no way to objectively do what he is trying to do here, a point I think he makes very clear several times through his video.
@divacroft1034 Funny, since a bunch of the biggest and most well-known MMO arent free to play or weren't up until a certain point. In fact, free to play didn't become nearly as prevalent until the 2010s. The irony of you repeatedly calling others stupid...
To be fair, publishers also perpetuate that idea. Both War Thunder and World of Tanks are referred to as MMOs in their marketing when they are matchmaking PVP games with progression
because most Free MMOs are trash... due to their Paid gacha mechanics... and p2w... since they don't want to design good in game system to monetize without exploiting those..
It's an abysmal channel. I watched a couple of videos years ago when i was searching for an alternative MMORPG and all their videos said best mmorpg and none were actual mmorpgs...
I think, so long as they do not include this video, but include the data from it and expand on it, they would actually have an easier time. It seems like there is a lot of more eastern viewers which are miffed about some games not showing up once, and some claiming that their is definately a Western Bias. They could honestly just not have to look at any of the lists that Josh looked at and just go further.
Clever way to call out the problem here; lists aren't weighed equally here and longer lists have too much power. I was thinking 1st through 10th place all get 10 through 1 points, no matter the list size. All games at 11th+ get only 1 point
Hey! I'm the person that uploaded the snippet of the Istaria video, my friends alerted me of this and I yelled out "JOSH STRIFE HAYES?!" when they went off of fullscreen LOL, Even if Istaria is a tiny baby game (and what he says about it is 100% true), I'm so happy to get noticed! (By the way, the clip shown in the video is of the hardest world boss in the game being soloed, I was extremely proud of it LOL) Thank you, even if this sits buried in the comments :P
Horizons was amazing, I remember playing an elemental archer and soloing high level enemies with the freezing arrow lol. And had a lot of fun RPing back then. I didn’t even know it’s still around, good to hear.
@Waybear Yeah, Order is near-dead but chaos is still pretty lively (for how the game is overall) if you ever want to come back! Especially with the anniversary event going on :) It's great for Bipeds LOL
I started teh MMO genre 4 months ago and came to the conclusion at the end. While I intellectually understand some games like WoW and FFXIV are great and even for me I also have an inner knowing that some games like DCUO while small are special.
As soon as he got to ESO as #4, I knew that #3 would be Guild Wars 2, and I expected #2 to be WoW & #1 to be FFXIV (I was thinking because of how much better a reputation FF has had than WoW in the past ~5 years, forgetting that Josh was using data going back much further). But anyway I was genuinely taken aback to see them tie for 2nd place! Especially with such a high number of points!
Wait, I went to the comments after watching before fully looking at the description, you mean to tell me if I scroll back up, there's NOT a link to this sheet/data?! This is a war crime, an absolutely vile breach of international protocol; I'm calling the Hague.
@magikazam8430 Yeah yeah, that's what people say about literally every single game ever released. Pro tip : never listen to doomers nor fanboys, both are wrong and dumb.
Man, I just subbed and absolutely enjoyed this. The last part made me cry because I remember the hours I spent with my dad who was dying of cancer, playing world of Warcraft and explaining to him everything that was going on. Your words hit home to me. Thank you.
With his conclusion at the end he should change his name to Josh Sisyphus Hayes. Literally poured in all this effort to hit a tie and tell us it never actually mattered.
Out of respect for the hours put in on making this video, I stopped playing the MMO I was playing when I started watching, made myself some iced coffee, got a few grapes as snacks, brought the tab to my main monitor and payed attention. Even pausing when leaving my PC to get more tea or check on my pets, instead of just listening on my headset. Thank you for all the time you put into it, Josh Strife Hayes. Since I'm from a third world country and can't patreon more than one thing or I'll starve, here is my unwavering attention and respect.
Part 2! RUclips wouldn't let me fit it in one comment: 52:36 125- Defend the Night. Total Points: 10. (Not Released) 52:54 124- Granado Espada. Total Points: 10. 53:16 123- Saga of Lucimia. Total Points: 10. (Shut Down) 53:36 122- Overwatch. Total Points: 10. (Not an MMO - MMOPlay) 54:02 121- Justice Online. Total Points: 10. (Not Released in the West) 54:12 120- Genshin Impact. Total Points: 10. 54:28 119- Odin Valhalla Rising. Total Points: 10. (Mobile) 54:45 118- Dune Awakening. Total Points: 10. (Not Released) 54:59 117- Motor City Online. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down) 55:16 116- Rappelz. Total Points: 11. 55:32 115- Atlas. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down) 55:48 114- Fractured. Total Points: 11. 56:00 113- Worlds Adrift. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down) 56:13 112- League of Legends. Total Points: 11. (Not an MMO - FreeMMOStation) 56:33 111- Wander. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down) 56:53 110- Corepunk. Total Points: 11. 57:11 109- Atlantica Online. Total Points: 12. 57:28 108- Starbase. Total Points: 12. 57:44 107- Aion 2. Total Points: 12. (Not Released) 57:56 106- Spiral Knights. Total Points: 13. 58:12 105- Babylon’s Fall. Total Points: 13. (Not an MMO - WilliamWegner. Shut Down) 58:38 104- Second Life. Total Points: 13. 59:07 103- Legend of Aria. Total Points: 13. 59:18 102- Adventure Quest Worlds. Total Points: 14. 59:39 101- Neverwinter Nights. Total Points: 14. (Not _technically_ an MMO) 1:00:12 100 Vindictus. Total Points: 14. 1:00:27 99- Project Ragnarok. Total Points: 14. (Not Released) 1:00:38 98- Identity. Total Points: 14. (Shut Down) 1:00:55 97- Soul Worker Online. Total Points: 14. 1:01:24 96- Dark and Light. Total Points: 14. (Shut Down) 1:01:41 95- Boundless. Total Points: 14. 1:01:52 94- World of Tanks. Total Points: 14. 1:02:06 93- Champions Online. Total Points: 15. 1:02:19 92- Fallout 76. Total Points: 15. 1:02:52 91- Brighter Shores. Total Points: 15. 1:03:07 90- Age of Conan. Total Points: 15. 1:03:24 89- Dual Universe. Total Points: 15. 1:03:40 88- Magic Legends. Total Points: 15. (Shut Down) 1:04:00 87- The Division. Total Points: 15. 1:04:17 86- Blue Protocol. Total Points: 15. (Not Released in the West) 1:04:37 85- Embers Adrift. Total Points: 15. 1:04:53 84- Anarchy Online. Total Points: 16. 1:05:14 83- Asheron's Call. Total Points: 16. (Shut Down) 1:05:35 82- War Thunder. Total Points: 16. 1:05:58 81- Sea of Thieves. Total Points: 16. 1:06:13 80- Pirate 101. Total Points: 16. 1:06:42 79- Cabal Online. Total Points: 17. 1:06:58 78- Diablo Immortal. Total Points: 17. (Mobile) 1:07:20 77- Tibia. Total Points: 17. 1:07:40 76 Swords of Legend Online. Total Points: 17. (Shut Down) 1:08:30 75- Darkfall Unholy Wars. Total Points: 18. (Shut Down) 1:08:45 74- Maple Story 2. Total Points: 18. (Shut Down) 1:09:03 73- Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade. Total Points: 18. (Shut Down) 1:09:25 72- ArcheAge Chronicles. Total Points: 18. (Not Released) 1:09:34 71- Continent of the 9th. Total Points: 19. 1:09:45 70- H1Z1. Total Points: 19. (Shut Down) 1:10:06 69- League of Angels. Total Points: 19. (Nice) 1:10:34 68- Life is Feudal. Total Points: 20. (Shut Down) 1:10:58 67- Tree of Savior. Total Points: 21. 1:11:15 66- Moonlight Blade. Total Points: 22. 1:11:28 65- Project Gorgon. Total Points: 22. 1:11:47 64- Tower of Fantasy. Total Points: 22. 1:12:06 63- Chrono Odyssey. Total Points: 22. (Not Released) 1:12:22 62- Wizard 101. Total Points: 22. 1:12:43 61- Crimson Desert. Total Points: 23. (Not Released) 1:12:54 60- Skyforge. Total Points: 24. 1:13:15 59- Guild Wars 1. Total Points: 24. 1:13:50 58- Star Wars Galaxies. Total Points: 28. (Shut Down) 1:14:31 57- Everquest Next. Total Points: 28. (Discontinued) 1:14:56 56- Allods Online. Total Points: 29. 1:15:10 55- Mortal Online 2. Total Points: 29. 1:15:41 54- Chronicles of Elyria. Total Points: 30. (Discontinued) 1:16:03 53- Lineage Eternal. Total Points: 31. 1:16:26 52- Trove. Total Points: 32. 1:16:38 51- Tarisland. Total Points: 32. 1:17:03 50- Peria Chronicles. Total Points: 33. (Discontinued) 1:17:17 49- Wildstar. Total Points: 33. (Shut Down) 1:17:41 48- Final Fantasy 11. Total Points: 34. 1:18:17 47- Planetside 2. Total Points: 36. 1:18:47 46- Elyon. Total Points: 36. (Shut Down) 1:19:05 45- Revelations Online. Total Points: 38. (Jiggle Physics. Shut Down) 1:19:24 44- Camelot Unchained. Total Points: 38 (Not Released) 1:19:58 43- Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. Total Points: 40. (Not Released) 1:20:33 42- Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning. Total Points: 40. Shut Down. Fan server) 1:21:20 41- Ultima Online. Total Points: 41. 1:22:07 40- MapleStory. Total Points: 41. 1:22:35 39- DC Universe Online. Total Points: 44. 1:22:59 38- Rift. Total Points: 45. (Gamigo) 1:23:59 37- Runes of Magic. Total Points: 46. 1:24:37 36- Dauntless. Total Points: 46. (Not quite an MMO) 1:25:00 35- Destiny 2. Total Points: 46. 1:25:32 34- The Secret World Legends. Total Points: 51. 1:26:22 33- Dark Age of Camelot. Total Points: 51. 1:27:00 32- Phantasy Star Online 2. Total Points: 52. 1:27:34 31- Path of Exile. Total Points: 57. 1:28:22 30- Perfect World. Total Points: 58. 1:28:42 29- Lineage 2. Total Points: 59. 1:29:14 28- Archeage Unchained. Total Points: 60. (Shut Down in the West) 1:29:48 27- Throne and Liberty. Total Points: 60. 1:30:22 26- Dungeons and Dragons Online. Total Points: 62. 1:30:59 25- Everquest. Total Points: 63. 1:31:53 24- Warframe. Total Points: 69. 1:32:20 23- Bless Unleashed. Total Points: 69. 1:32:45 22- Star Trek Online. Total Points: 69. 1:33:11 21- Aion. Total Points: 71. 1:33:38 20- Star Citizen. Total Points: 73. (Not Released) 1:34:24 19- Crowfall. Total Points: 81. 1:34:46 18- TERA. Total Points: 93. (Shut Down on PC) 1:35:35 17- Ashes of Creation. Total Points: 95. (Not Released) 1:36:08 16- WoW Classic. Total Points: 104 1:36:46 15- Blade and Soul. Total Points: 126. 1:37:11 14- Runescape 3. Total Points: 133. 1:38:10 13- Lord of the Rings Online. Total Points: 147. 1:38:41 12- Neverwinter Online. Total Points: 149. 1:39:51 11- New World. Total Points: 153 1:40:59 10- Albion Online. Total Points: 214 1:41:54 9- EVE Online. Total Points: 224 1:42:56 8- Old School Runescape. Total Points: 247 1:43:38 7- Star Wars the Old Republic. Total Points: 254 1:44:20 6- Lost Ark. Total Points: 287 1:44:44 5- Black Desert Online. Total Points: 326 1:45:18 4- The Elder Scrolls Online. Total Points: 358 1:46:14 3- Guild Wars 2. Total Points: 475 1:47:16 2- Final Fantasy XIV. Total Points: 493 1:47:16 2- World of Warcraft. Total Points: 493 1:48:14 1- Total games marked as unplayable (Shut Down/Not Released): 100* Total games marked as "Not an MMO": 25*
@macmac6064 The current version of the game is genuinely better and have a much more broad endgame that isn't just "kill this monster 10000 times to get a 0,01% drop" Don't get me wrong, I love pre-renewal RO, but renewal RO did eventually get its shit together. I genuinely think that people should give it a chance, the official servers are still there and they are quite decent compared to private servers.
@einhasad7 I don't like doing millions upon millions of damage. it's just absurd. Just imagine if they bring pre-renewal and keep developing it as it's own thing. Like Wow Classic+. Enhance engine, do more modern stuff, networking, etc.
What a fantastic video. As someone who has worked professionally on designing parts of MMOs 162, 95, 44, 42, 12, 9, 8, 7, and 2, I greatly appreciate this video being made and the effort that went into it.
@benpielstick Tell that to Koji Fox. (Director of the English translation team in FFXIV. Born in the USA. Full name is Michael-Christopher Koji Fox.) Would not surprise me if there were more westerners working on FFXIV. Don't know each and every person working on FFXIV in some capacity. But Koji Fox is kind of hard to miss. :)
i been half watching this on a second monitor, and looked over when he said jiggle physics, and his call out made me laugh to the point of crying. i replayed it a couple of times cuz how damn funny it was
The fact that Ragnarok Online didnt appear on this list at all is wild to me. Thought the game had enough notoriety to be on some lists at least compared to some of these games that have never been heard of before.
if it makes you feel better City of Heroes was actually a big mmo back in the day, probably the biggest one right before WOW released, and it still was right at the beginning of the list lol
I'm genuinely surprised not a single one of those videos or articles mentioned Ragnarok Online. Like how is Overwatch here, but not that? I blame freemmostation.
It's probably because the list is based on players opinion of the USA, Ragnarok Online is easily one of the greatest MMOs in my country, and in fact it's good to be at least on top 20.
Beyond subjective opinions (like I personally don't enjoy Ragnarok Online too much) it was objectively an extremely influential game in the genre. AFAIK it introduced classes to MMOs with its job system, a variety of ways to customize characters mechanically and maybe infamously it was one of the first (there were other smaller ones that did it before but Ragnarok Online was massive: it had millions of players in Asia and Latin America) to include a cash shop where players could buy stuff with real money. All of this features would be done by many MMOs afterwards. Also I'm not sure about this but it might be the first one with a strongly anime-inspired aesthetic in-game (MapleStory came the year after).
I'm also surprised RO is not on the list. I played that for a while before the pandemic, and Dofus a lot (not in there too but Wakfu is?) when I was a teen.
As a City of Heroes enjoyer, I feel ya. There's something really funny about our favorites being below several games that aren't MMOs or never existed.
One of the key takeaways seems to be that the MMO genre is littered with never-completed, dying, or relatively unknown games. It would be interesting to see someone take a similar methodology and apply it to another genre, and then compare the results. Could tell us something about the strengths, weaknesses, and particularities of MMOs. At any rate, excellent work, great commentary, and an interesting, innovative approach to the topic. Well done, as always.
It always does surprise me just how many of these there are and are going on, simply because the costs in both developing and running MMOs are generally higher than those of other games.
@EvanCWatersThe Chinese are brought up to be more susceptible to Manipulation and as result are easier to monetize/take advantage of even despite that they have less funds to spare.
@andy02q they are statistically doing better than American citizens. To say americans have more fund to spare is hilarious considering that they have dramatically higher home ownership rates.
@andy02q like for real you gotta be a bot with a statement like that. Americans are the epitome of manipulated citizens. Our nation is trying to get everyone addicted to gambling and its working because Americans are bad at math
Patrician TV has you covered if you enjoy cynical Oblivion/Skyrim views (12 hour Oblivion video, 24 hour Skyrim video split, and an 8 hour really positive Morrowind video).
I feel like Wizard101 deserves some more recognition. The fact that a little card mmo designed for kids has been so successful and lasted so long is pretty impressive
This was a phenomenal two hours very well spent. Thank you for the insightful words, and for your work as an MMO content creator as a whole. Looking forward to your next work.
Immediately amazed that City of Heroes, for how big and unique it was, had only ONE mention and is below a bunch of short-lived WoW clones and mobile games
I am strangely proud that a game my friend and I played in school, a game about which we still occasionally say "do you remember that?", Silk Road, was tied bottom of the list (# 239) lol. I also thought City of Heroes also being tied for the bottom is more insane though, yeah.
The problem with this ranking system is that City of Heroes would have got all its good reviews when it originally launched, but he’s only taking the last 20 years of reviews. That said, I’d like to see how the rankings look if he’d weighted them by age. I’d also like to see another MMO with as good a costume design system and as good a teaming system. No game so far has come close to either, which is a tragedy.
@stephencornelius3396 I found the Champions Online costume system, which is essentially the same since it was intended as a successor, an improvement in almost every way and its a huge shame that they know what they have now and its extremely locked down + nickel and dimed for players who joined after the game went free to play. I found the CoH system comparatively limited when going back and trying the revival server even though I absolutely loved it back when I played the original, but thats to be expected. I don't think any of the more modern superhero games even come close to either of them.
Josh you can literally turn this into an academic paper. this is basically a popularity contest with the method we use in communication studies called "computer-assisted quantitative content analysis": basically you take bunch of texts, search for specific keywords and enumerate how many times they were utilized along with whether they were used in a positive or negative manner (you also have a scale, that's better), aggregate the results and present / summarize it in the article. you can actually publish these results in a scientific journal* for a fee, you may approach an academic from a communication department for that academic to be 2nd author to get funding covered by the university itself. *although it would be nice to attach the data to the article but most would look at the summary in the article
@4mb127 submitting an article to journals costs between 1500 to 3000 USD with no guarantee of approval, so it's kind of better to do the work yourself and let someone be a 2nd author to get that fee covered by an institution. academia is harsh right now...
My father was in a coma the last 30 years, I watched this beside his hospital bed. When Josh brought up jiggle he woke up and turned the screen towards himself. Thanks Josh I have my dad back!
Josh Strife "Second Monitor Content" Hayes got me. 1 hour and 10 minutes into the video I remembered the timestamp in the description, blindly clicked and got bamboozled. Well played, sir. Well played.
Someone from FreeMMOstation had a time machine, saw an alternate universe version of this video, went back in time and convinced people to play the longest prank ever.
Thanks for this, Josh! As it turns out, I AM a data scientist, and while I might have a pedantic objection over the points system (would recommend a formula to standardize lists lower or greater than 10 to still rate on a ten-point scale so each video/article contributes the same amount), I will still certify this as sciencey enough to be objective reality. :D Thanks for all the effort and your endlessly entertaining commentary.
@jmm00702 You might think that scoring top 1 out of 5 and top 1 out of 25 should be worth the same, but calling people slurs because of it is not a good look, buddy. Also you had to just watch the first few minutes of the video to learn how the scores were assigned.
I can proudly say I watched through to the end and what a satisfying end it is. Watching the list feels like walking through memory lane rather than watching a tier list. Thank you for your hard work in making this video.
I know it's not meant to be taken seriously, but one takeaway I got from this video is that Dofus players need to start making Top MMO lists. It's strange that both Wakfu and Waven are here but not Dofus, when it's the original Ankama game, more popular than both, and has gone through the same process as RuneScape and World of Warcraft in having both a modern and a classic version of the game running at the same time. Also, shoutout to Rubies of Eventide my beloved. Fun video Josh.
I'm actually happy Wakfu has been mentioned. I was scared it wouldn't even appear. I have been playing since it released and never really quite understood why it always stayed so unpopular on Steam. The vibes, looks, stories, aesthetics, etc everything is so good about it.
@SimonBrewso sadly the company behind it, is completely neglecting it (the way josh said the games only con is its french, might be a joke but us damn so true sadly)
@amine1087 They're still releasing updates, making new content, and reworking old content on a regular basis. "completely neglecting it" is a wild hyperbole.
Fully agree! I'm just happy I got mine (Over decade in wakfu and still going strong, actually kinda hyped for the new patch as well since we FINALLY get nox as a boss to punch!)
Elite Dangerous wasn't shut down. Further development was shelved on the consoles but that is very very much not the case on the PC, where after some stutters it has since gone from strength to strength.
I've been playing Ragnarok Online for about 20 years now, I really do not understand how it didn't manage to show up here 😅. It is VERY popular where I live, with thousands of daily unique players, but well, it is what it is, excellent work Josh.
So glad to see many people asking about the game missing in the comments, i was quite sad at first to not see it ranked highly and then find out it's not on the list at all. It's obviously not my "best game" choice but 100% the most fun i've had with a game (first mmo experience and all)
Ragnarok Online not being in the top 10% makers this list illegitimate. Plus my two other personal favorites are either too far down or not on it at all. What this person, who claims to be ‘scientific’ did wrong, was not account for the fact that the amour of articles and video’s is een extremely inflated post 2010. He is wrong, and therefore a terrible person. Why am I saying this? Again, I slightly disagree with this gentleman. I am only partially trolling 😂
Josh: I'm going to rank every MMO ever for science freeMMOstation: I'm about to ruin this man's whole career awesome video, been looking forward to this!
amazing video, just extremely curious how ragnarok online isn’t on here considering it’s significantly more popular to this day than 99% of these games.
"Don't let content creators like me tell you which game you should like" and "Play what makes you happy". These are two quotes I am going to live by in 2025. Tired of hearing which games should make me mad. 10/10 video
I haven't played a AAA or "popular" game besides FF14 since FF7 Rebirth. Plus side: I have so much more fun with games diving super deep into my preferred niches. Downside: It's a lot harder to join in on conversations with my friends lmao I also specifically don't watch "negative" videos like worst of lists or "Why [popular thing] is bad actually" which I unequivocally recommend.
I’m going on around 8 years on and off of final fantasy xiv! It’s truly a special game in general not just as a mmo. But the world building and story telling is incredible! The players are happy to help new players and they are some of the kindest people I have talked to! The story again is incredible! Made me laugh, cry and get mad because the story is that good!(especially shadowbringers and endwalker though there is not one expansion that I did not like!) the ost/music/songs are spectacular! And you gain a better understanding of answers after one point in the game! And each ost matches each area and story perfectly! God i love this game!
This video is truly a piece of art. It's written beautifully, with wit, humour and a poignant message. You're not wrong when you say it's a magnum opus - just not what the viewer is initially led to believe. Outstanding!
I'm AMAZED that city of heroes only appeared on one of your sources. This methodology heavily weights popular games, and City of Heroes was really popular in the day.
curse of being a 2004 release when the timeframe of the sources is 2004-2024, meaning the only real chance to show up was in the earliest sources, and those were also during the goldrush years so there were a plethora of similarly popular games surrounding it. it's pretty much luck of the draw for anything from that period that didn't have massive, lasting popularity and/or re-releases later down the line that put it back on the radar. mmos released in 2004 and earlier in particular are extra likely to be missing, as their development/launch popularity windows ended before the start of the source data.
this is what I'm surprised by most. I know many friends who played and have high praise for it. did it only score like 1 point? it was 245th or something?
This surprised me too. I figured the popularity of the private servers and how big the relaunch was would've netted it some more acknowledgement. One of, if not the best character creator in any game. And a pretty decent game overall for the time.
4:30 The only flaw in this otherwise perfectly objective and scientific system is that it strangely favors games on longer lists. A game ranked 10th in a list of 20 will get 10 points while a game ranked 10th on a list of 10 only gets 1. I'm going to make a video called The Top 10,000 MMO's of All Time and put Knack 2 in every spot so that you have to do this differently next time.
I watched the whole video and made a note of every game that was 1. Actually an MMO 2. In English 3. Still online and 4. Josh seems to have a positive opinion of. So I guess here's the list of the 58 actual recommendations from this video. 239 silk road online 200 closers online 197 fallen earth classic 187 dragon quest x 171 Draconica online 169 knight online 168 flyff online 153 adventure quest 152 Palia 147 9 dragons 144 conquerer blade 143 mabinogi 133 dragon nest 120 genshin impact 116 rappelz 110 corepunk 109 Atlentica online 106 spiral knights 102 adventure quest worlds 100 vindictus 93 champions online 92 fallout 76 91 brighter shores 84 anarchy online 81 sea of thieves 80 pirate 101 77 Tibia 71 continent of the 9th 67 Tree of savior 65 Project gorgon 62 wizard 101 60 skyforge 59 Guild wars 1 (Only kinda an MMO) 52 Trove 48 final fantasy 11 47 Planetside 2 41 ultima online 40 maplestory 39 dc universe online 34 the secret world legends 33 dark age of Camelot 32 fantasy star online 2 31 path of exile (Only kinda an MMO) 27 throne and liberty 26 dungeons and dragons online 25 everquest 24 warframe 21 Aion 16 wow classic 15 blade and soul 14 runescape 3 13 lord of the rings online 10 albion online 8 old school runescape 7 star wars the old republic 3 guild wars 2 * 2 / 1 WoW / FF14
wrong way to go about this.. there is stuff listed as not out yet that are very playable right now and other stuff that didn't get listed as early access still on your list
So, Josh, first of all, this is really impressive work. I just hope it makes more people aware of your Otherland series, it deserves so much more recognition. And how funny is it that even outside of your Twitch chat, you can't escape the 50/50 curse lol
I've never heard of Otherlands and now I'm interested. I think I've read some other books/ seen some anime inspired by Otherlands so I'm now really interested to see where it all started from.
@Zunedoodle77 The MMO was inspired by the (quite successful) book. It had amazing surrealist level design but the studio went bankrupt. Eventually it released as a bit of a buggy mess and shut down some time ago. Definitely check out Josh's playthrough, he might be the only person to have completed it.
This man is the reason why Google Sheets has the default option of "Add 1000 more rows"
the other reason is EVE Online players.
are you calling him a nerdf
@TheNicestPig Nope, we can keep everything in the head )
@TheNicestPig 🤣🤣🤣👍
Google sheets is shit, god damn. What garbage ass software, even if free.
As a data scientist, I had several ideas on how to improve on your approach. Then, I realized that your approach had one major advantage over all of my ideas - you were the one doing the work not me. Great job!
Doesn't matter if the method is bollocks as long as you can cite someone else work as the source. No one is ever going to go through the reference list to check the methodology.
hm, i had several near-heart attacks / bursts of rage when he explained his methods...
Dont you actually love your discipline? And want to defend it from all those noobs?
@peka2478 For something as subjective as this? Absolutely not. There is no way to objectively do what he is trying to do here, a point I think he makes very clear several times through his video.
As a data scientist, these were my exact thoughts as well
lmao xD
One list to rule them all,
one list to classify them,
One list to bring all mmos
and in the spreadsheet bind them
That's amazing - this needs way more "thumbs up", Lol.
@viciadodaemera3925 Thanks!
poetiic
AscendantStoic playing poe 2 probably
we should revive tolkien so he can give us a blackspeech translation of this
I quit looking at "MMO sites" back in 2014 because they kept calling anything that was F2P a MMO. This video represents the frustration very well.
@CardboardNae mmo genre is free to play by default stupid. theres only few scam mmos that defy this basic principle of mmo genre stupid...
@divacroft1034 Funny, since a bunch of the biggest and most well-known MMO arent free to play or weren't up until a certain point. In fact, free to play didn't become nearly as prevalent until the 2010s. The irony of you repeatedly calling others stupid...
@divacroft1034wth are you talking about??? So WOW is f2p?
To be fair, publishers also perpetuate that idea. Both War Thunder and World of Tanks are referred to as MMOs in their marketing when they are matchmaking PVP games with progression
@divacroft1034Have you considered the rope?
FreeMMOstation being the nemesis of this video was the best part
because most Free MMOs are trash... due to their Paid gacha mechanics... and p2w... since they don't want to design good in game system to monetize without exploiting those..
@phoenixwulf6010 i dont think you understand the comment you're replying to lmao
@nulshift deff no lol
It's an abysmal channel. I watched a couple of videos years ago when i was searching for an alternative MMORPG and all their videos said best mmorpg and none were actual mmorpgs...
@phoenixwulf6010 Someone hasn't watched the video XD
if my game dont win, i unsub
Video will either become the gamer bible (my game won) or the focus of all of our rage (my game lost)
You worked on Black Myth Wukong didn’t you 😅
Mine already won solely by being the highest grossing video game of all time
Your game won let’s gooo
Congratulations!
Whoever making another version of this list is gonna have a massive headache with this video in the equation.
I think, so long as they do not include this video, but include the data from it and expand on it, they would actually have an easier time. It seems like there is a lot of more eastern viewers which are miffed about some games not showing up once, and some claiming that their is definately a Western Bias. They could honestly just not have to look at any of the lists that Josh looked at and just go further.
its recursive, lol
Clever way to call out the problem here; lists aren't weighed equally here and longer lists have too much power.
I was thinking 1st through 10th place all get 10 through 1 points, no matter the list size. All games at 11th+ get only 1 point
Bruh this shit too long Im not gonna watch this all
@StickEmpiresStrats Just say your 5 and cant watch longer then 30 second videos and move on dude.
I haven't been this amused of hearing the sentence "Consult the chart" since ever. Good stuff.
I quit mmos, rejoined, and quit again and josh only uploaded once in that period.
Honestly I can quit and rejoin mmos within a day so I can't bash josh lol
@Tyrone2714 getting into an MMO is / was like a massive time investment to me. it would take me months to quit
Seems like you’re an indecisive person
Heheh but he prolly needed 5 weeks to make this one, all the data!!
have you checked his other 8 channels?
Hey! I'm the person that uploaded the snippet of the Istaria video, my friends alerted me of this and I yelled out "JOSH STRIFE HAYES?!" when they went off of fullscreen LOL, Even if Istaria is a tiny baby game (and what he says about it is 100% true), I'm so happy to get noticed! (By the way, the clip shown in the video is of the hardest world boss in the game being soloed, I was extremely proud of it LOL) Thank you, even if this sits buried in the comments :P
Thanks for sharing your story.
comment to keep it up there
Horizons was amazing, I remember playing an elemental archer and soloing high level enemies with the freezing arrow lol. And had a lot of fun RPing back then. I didn’t even know it’s still around, good to hear.
@Waybear Yeah, Order is near-dead but chaos is still pretty lively (for how the game is overall) if you ever want to come back! Especially with the anniversary event going on :) It's great for Bipeds LOL
is it true about fan-art though? i found only 3 pieces and they were pretty alright, nothing explicit. though icba searching deviantart
I started teh MMO genre 4 months ago and came to the conclusion at the end. While I intellectually understand some games like WoW and FFXIV are great and even for me I also have an inner knowing that some games like DCUO while small are special.
I was genuinely expecting wow to beat out the score but holy shit, that ending was insane
Surprise Shen cameo! ❤
That reminds me I need to watch the Warframe vods
The fact that it had almost a decade of listings before FFXIV even came out/A Realm Reborn was mentioned well on the lists
Even though your talking about the end of the video I was surprised that swtor was even mentioned at number 7
As soon as he got to ESO as #4, I knew that #3 would be Guild Wars 2, and I expected #2 to be WoW & #1 to be FFXIV (I was thinking because of how much better a reputation FF has had than WoW in the past ~5 years, forgetting that Josh was using data going back much further).
But anyway I was genuinely taken aback to see them tie for 2nd place! Especially with such a high number of points!
You have to host that data publicly now. It's an international treasure.
I can’t believe City of Heroes apparently only got one tenth place mention ever.
@Norrieification LOL I just posted a comment to the video and made two points in it. These exact two. Hehe
I just posted a comment to the video and made two points in it. These exact two. Hehe
Wait, I went to the comments after watching before fully looking at the description, you mean to tell me if I scroll back up, there's NOT a link to this sheet/data?! This is a war crime, an absolutely vile breach of international protocol; I'm calling the Hague.
this video will cost a few french subs and generate a ton of german ones
I don’t know why, but when you said German subs my brain went to u boats
Das ist es wert!
Bien sûr
Nah, as a French Canadian all those French game had the same issues where the ones making the game ruined them
@magikazam8430 Yeah yeah, that's what people say about literally every single game ever released.
Pro tip : never listen to doomers nor fanboys, both are wrong and dumb.
Man, I just subbed and absolutely enjoyed this. The last part made me cry because I remember the hours I spent with my dad who was dying of cancer, playing world of Warcraft and explaining to him everything that was going on. Your words hit home to me. Thank you.
With his conclusion at the end he should change his name to Josh Sisyphus Hayes. Literally poured in all this effort to hit a tie and tell us it never actually mattered.
Science has failed us
It's called a shitty bait movie.
the bitterest pill is that hes right lol
One must imagine him proud of his work
thanks for saving me 2 hours
Out of respect for the hours put in on making this video, I stopped playing the MMO I was playing when I started watching, made myself some iced coffee, got a few grapes as snacks, brought the tab to my main monitor and payed attention. Even pausing when leaving my PC to get more tea or check on my pets, instead of just listening on my headset.
Thank you for all the time you put into it, Josh Strife Hayes. Since I'm from a third world country and can't patreon more than one thing or I'll starve, here is my unwavering attention and respect.
Oh, I stopped playing Marvel Rivals and started playing an MMO so I could pay slightly more attention to my 2nd screen.
i hope you will get a better life sometime, and will be happy ❤
Ditto! Much love and appreciation ♡
Same!
Went into the comments to type out this exact comment replacing grapes with chips, and coffee with a tankard of iced tea.
genuinely the funniest way the rankings could possibly have ended, perfect, chef's kiss, no notes
I don't want to sound dramatic, but I literally can't even right now
Actually made me burst out laughing
1:24:00 never has a better description of the destiny community been given.
NGL, you really got me with "Jiggle Physics" and "For those of you with this on your second monitor, Welcome back" You got me twice. Well done.
SAME
DID I HEAR JIGGLE PHYSICS? Oh hi Josh
One of the only 8 that I've played on this list... Although only for a few hours if that.
I appreciate being welcomed back. Twice. 😊
this shit hat me *W H E E Z I N G*
I've listed all the MMOs so you don't have to!
(Ctrl+f for a specific game. Pt.2 below)
11:23 250- Meridian 59. Total Points: 1.
11:43 249- Furcadia. Total Points: 1.
12:03 248- Loong: Power of the Dragon. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down)
12:15 247- Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted. Total Points: 1.
12:30 246- Alganon. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down)
12:44 245- City of Heroes. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down. Private server)
13:05 244- Titan Reach. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down)
13:23 243- Wakfu. Total Points: 1. (French)
13:35 242- Free Realms. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down)
13:56 241- Eternal Senia. Total Points: 1.
14:06 240- Everquest 3. Total Points: 1. (Not Released)
14:26 239- Silk Road Online. Total Points: 1.
14:44 238- Metin 2. Total Points: 1.
14:58 237- UnDecember. Total Points: 1.
15:03 236- Gloria Victis. Total Points: 1.
15:13 235- Waven. Total Points: 1. (Also French)
15:30 234- Rust. Total Points: 1. (Not an MMO)
15:45 233- Torchlight Frontiers. Total Points: 1. (Not an MMO)
16:10 232- Em8er. Total Points: 1. (Not Released)
16:26 231- Master X Master. Total Points: 1. (Not an MMO - Gameranx)
17:09 230- Echo of Soul. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down. Revived in Korea)
17:25 229- The Repopulation. Total Points: 1. (Shut Down)
17:43 228- Soulframe. Total Points: 1. (Not Released)
17:55 227- Archlord. Total Points: 2. (Shut Down)
18:16 226- City of Steam. Total Points: 2. (Shut Down, twice)
18:32 225- Uncharted Waters Online. Total Points: 2.
18:49 224- Vanguard Saga of Heroes. Total Points: 2. (Shut Down)
19:19 223- Grimm’s Hollow. Total Points: 2. (Not an MMO - BestGamex)
19:52 222- Horizon Online. Total Points: 2 (Not Released)
20:04 221- Hunter’s Arena Legens. Total Points: 2 (Not an MMO - WilliamWegner)
20:31 220- Realm of the Mad God. Total Points: 2.
20:52 219- Kurtzpel. Total Points: 2.
21:03 218- Riders of Icarus. Total Points: 2. (Russian)
21:16 217- Dash Tal. Total Points: 2. (Shut Down)
21:26 216- Otherland. Total Points: 2. (Shut Down)
21:32 215- Shards Online. Total Points: 2. (Shut Down)
23:07 214- EverQuest 2. Total Points: 2.
23:31 213- Mortal Online. Total Points: 2. (Dead*)
23:53 212- The Matrix Online. Total Points: 3. (Shut Down)
24:20 211- Therian Saga. Total Points: 3. (French)
24:33 210- Toontown Online. Total Points: 3. (Shut Down. Fan server)
24:58 209- Naica. Total Points: 3. (Shut Down)
25:21 208- Age of Wushu. Total Points: 3. (Western version Shut Down)
25:38 207- Eden Eternal. Total Points: 3. (Patchy English translation)
26:01 206- Fiesta Online. Total Points: 3. (Blinking Horse Head)
26:38 205- Grand Theft Auto 5 Online. Total Points: 3. (Technically an MMO - Shadow)
27:05 204- City of Titans. Total Points: 3. (Not Released)
27:30 203- Anthem. Total Points: 3. (Shut Down)
27:49 202- Battleborn. Total Points: 3. (Not an MMO - MMOplay. Shut Down)
28:28 201- Hearthstone. Total Points: 3. (Not an MMO - FreeMMOStation)
28:56 200- Closers Online. Total Points: 3.
29:07 199- Asheron’s Call 2. Total Points: 3. (Shut Down)
29:28 198- Pirates of the Caribbean Online. Total Points: 4. (Shut Down. Private servers)
29:58 197- Fallen Earth Classic. Total Points: 4.
30:11 196- Shaiya. Total Points: 4. (Shut Down)
30:19 195- Gunz. Total Points: 4. (Shut Down)
30:48 194- V Rising. Total Points: 4. (Not an MMO)
31:02 193- Reworld Online. Total Points: 4. (Shut Down)
31:29 192- Wild West Online. Total Points: 4. (Shut Down)
31:43 191- Smite. Total Points: 4. (Not an MMO - FreeMMOStation)
32:05 190- Kingdom Under Fire 2. Total Points: 4. (Shut Down)
32:20 189- Wayfinder. Total Points: 4. (No longer an MMO)
32:43 188- Monsters & Memories. Total Points: 4. (Not Released)
32:59 187- Dragon Quest X. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down on Wii U and 3DS)
33:19 186- Enlisted. Total Points: 5. (Not an MMO - GamerRant)
33:44 185- Battlestar Galactica Online. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down)
34:03 184- Lego Universe. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down)
34:18 183- Twelvesky 2. Total Points: 5.
34:30 182- Tantra Online. Total Points: 5.
34:42 181- Rohan Online. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down)
34:57 180- Wyncraft. Total Points: 5.
35:16 179- Monster Hunter World. Total Points: 5. (Not an MMO)
35:30 178- Astellia Online/ Astellia Royal. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down)
35:50 177- Twilight Spirits. Total Points: 5. (Not Released)
36:00 176- Sky Saga. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down)
36:12 175- Team Fortress 2. Total Points: 5. (Not an MMO - FreeMMOStation)
36:41 174- Neocron. Total Points: 5.
36:59 173- Star Wars Clone Wars Adventures. Total Points: 5. (Shut Down. Fan project)
37:15 172- Profane. Total Points: 6. (Not Released)
37:30 171- Dragonica Online. Total Points: 6.
37:42 170- RF Online. Total Points: 6. (Shut Down)
37:59 169- Knight Online. Total Points: 6.
38:13 168- Flyff. Total Points: 6.
38:29 167- Ark Survival of the Fittest. Total Points: 6. (Merged into main game. Not an MMO)
38:52 166- Landmark. Total Points: 6. (Shut Down)
39:16 165- Pax Dei. Total Points: 6
39:32 164- Tabula Rasa. Total Points: 7. (Shut Down)
39:58 163- Raiderz. Total Points: 7 (Shut Down. Private servers)
40:14 162- Firefall. Total Points: 7 (Shut Down)
40:41 161- Dust 514. Total Points: 7. (Shut Down)
41:08 160- Dekaron. Total Points: 7. (Shut Down)
41:25 159- Wurm Online. Total Points: 7.
41:39 158- Shadowbane. Total Points: 7. (Shut Down)
42:13 157- World of Warships. Total Points: 7.
42:36 156- Marvel Heroes. Total Points: 7. (Shut Down)
42:56 155- Dota 2. Total Points: 7. (Not an MMO - FreeMMOStation)
43:17 154- Broken Ranks. Total Points: 7.
43:38 153- Adventure Quest 3D. Total Points: 7.
43:57 152- Palia. Total Points: 7.
44:15 151- Mythos. Total Points: 8. (Shut Down)
44:37 150- Dragon Prophet. Total Points: 8. (Shut Down)
44:50 149- Frozen Flame. Total Points: 8.
45:05 148- Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Online. Total Points: 8. (Shut Down)
45:23 147- 9 Dragons. Total Points: 8.
45:36 146- Elite Dangerous Odyssey. Total Points: 8. (Shut Down)
45:58 145- Creativerse. Total Points: 8. (Not an MMO - MrMacRight)
46:21 144- Conqueror's Blade. Total Points: 8.
46:38 143- Mabinogi. Total Points: 8.
46:56 142- Mad World. Total Points: 8. (Shut Down)
47:36 141- Kritika Online. Total Points: 8. (Jiggle Physics)
47:58 140- Drakensang Online. Total Points: 8. (Nice)
48:12 139- Bloodline Champions. Total Points: 8. (Not an MMO - Whataplay. Shut Down)
48:41 138- Dynasty Warriors Online. Total Points: 9. (Shut Down)
48:58 137- Devilian. Total Points: 9. (Shut Down)
49:12 136- Embersword. Total Points: 9. (Crypto Game)
49:24 135- Last Chaos. Total Points: 9. (Gamigo)
49:40 134- Temtem. Total Points: 9.
49:52 133- Dragon Nest. Total Points: 9.
50:06 132- Forsaken World. Total Points: 9. (Shut Down)
50:19 131- Dungeon Fighter Online. Total Points: 9. (Shut Down in the West)
50:42 130- Shroud of the Avatar. Total Points: 9.
51:22 129- Archeage 2. Total Points: 9. (Not Released. Not an MMO?)
51:42 128- Stars Reach. Total Points: 9. (Not Released)
51:58 127- World of the Living Dead. Total Points: 10. (Shut Down)
52:18 126- Dungeon Runners. Total Points: 10. (Shut Down)
Part 2! RUclips wouldn't let me fit it in one comment:
52:36 125- Defend the Night. Total Points: 10. (Not Released)
52:54 124- Granado Espada. Total Points: 10.
53:16 123- Saga of Lucimia. Total Points: 10. (Shut Down)
53:36 122- Overwatch. Total Points: 10. (Not an MMO - MMOPlay)
54:02 121- Justice Online. Total Points: 10. (Not Released in the West)
54:12 120- Genshin Impact. Total Points: 10.
54:28 119- Odin Valhalla Rising. Total Points: 10. (Mobile)
54:45 118- Dune Awakening. Total Points: 10. (Not Released)
54:59 117- Motor City Online. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down)
55:16 116- Rappelz. Total Points: 11.
55:32 115- Atlas. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down)
55:48 114- Fractured. Total Points: 11.
56:00 113- Worlds Adrift. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down)
56:13 112- League of Legends. Total Points: 11. (Not an MMO - FreeMMOStation)
56:33 111- Wander. Total Points: 11. (Shut Down)
56:53 110- Corepunk. Total Points: 11.
57:11 109- Atlantica Online. Total Points: 12.
57:28 108- Starbase. Total Points: 12.
57:44 107- Aion 2. Total Points: 12. (Not Released)
57:56 106- Spiral Knights. Total Points: 13.
58:12 105- Babylon’s Fall. Total Points: 13. (Not an MMO - WilliamWegner. Shut Down)
58:38 104- Second Life. Total Points: 13.
59:07 103- Legend of Aria. Total Points: 13.
59:18 102- Adventure Quest Worlds. Total Points: 14.
59:39 101- Neverwinter Nights. Total Points: 14. (Not _technically_ an MMO)
1:00:12 100 Vindictus. Total Points: 14.
1:00:27 99- Project Ragnarok. Total Points: 14. (Not Released)
1:00:38 98- Identity. Total Points: 14. (Shut Down)
1:00:55 97- Soul Worker Online. Total Points: 14.
1:01:24 96- Dark and Light. Total Points: 14. (Shut Down)
1:01:41 95- Boundless. Total Points: 14.
1:01:52 94- World of Tanks. Total Points: 14.
1:02:06 93- Champions Online. Total Points: 15.
1:02:19 92- Fallout 76. Total Points: 15.
1:02:52 91- Brighter Shores. Total Points: 15.
1:03:07 90- Age of Conan. Total Points: 15.
1:03:24 89- Dual Universe. Total Points: 15.
1:03:40 88- Magic Legends. Total Points: 15. (Shut Down)
1:04:00 87- The Division. Total Points: 15.
1:04:17 86- Blue Protocol. Total Points: 15. (Not Released in the West)
1:04:37 85- Embers Adrift. Total Points: 15.
1:04:53 84- Anarchy Online. Total Points: 16.
1:05:14 83- Asheron's Call. Total Points: 16. (Shut Down)
1:05:35 82- War Thunder. Total Points: 16.
1:05:58 81- Sea of Thieves. Total Points: 16.
1:06:13 80- Pirate 101. Total Points: 16.
1:06:42 79- Cabal Online. Total Points: 17.
1:06:58 78- Diablo Immortal. Total Points: 17. (Mobile)
1:07:20 77- Tibia. Total Points: 17.
1:07:40 76 Swords of Legend Online. Total Points: 17. (Shut Down)
1:08:30 75- Darkfall Unholy Wars. Total Points: 18. (Shut Down)
1:08:45 74- Maple Story 2. Total Points: 18. (Shut Down)
1:09:03 73- Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade. Total Points: 18. (Shut Down)
1:09:25 72- ArcheAge Chronicles. Total Points: 18. (Not Released)
1:09:34 71- Continent of the 9th. Total Points: 19.
1:09:45 70- H1Z1. Total Points: 19. (Shut Down)
1:10:06 69- League of Angels. Total Points: 19. (Nice)
1:10:34 68- Life is Feudal. Total Points: 20. (Shut Down)
1:10:58 67- Tree of Savior. Total Points: 21.
1:11:15 66- Moonlight Blade. Total Points: 22.
1:11:28 65- Project Gorgon. Total Points: 22.
1:11:47 64- Tower of Fantasy. Total Points: 22.
1:12:06 63- Chrono Odyssey. Total Points: 22. (Not Released)
1:12:22 62- Wizard 101. Total Points: 22.
1:12:43 61- Crimson Desert. Total Points: 23. (Not Released)
1:12:54 60- Skyforge. Total Points: 24.
1:13:15 59- Guild Wars 1. Total Points: 24.
1:13:50 58- Star Wars Galaxies. Total Points: 28. (Shut Down)
1:14:31 57- Everquest Next. Total Points: 28. (Discontinued)
1:14:56 56- Allods Online. Total Points: 29.
1:15:10 55- Mortal Online 2. Total Points: 29.
1:15:41 54- Chronicles of Elyria. Total Points: 30. (Discontinued)
1:16:03 53- Lineage Eternal. Total Points: 31.
1:16:26 52- Trove. Total Points: 32.
1:16:38 51- Tarisland. Total Points: 32.
1:17:03 50- Peria Chronicles. Total Points: 33. (Discontinued)
1:17:17 49- Wildstar. Total Points: 33. (Shut Down)
1:17:41 48- Final Fantasy 11. Total Points: 34.
1:18:17 47- Planetside 2. Total Points: 36.
1:18:47 46- Elyon. Total Points: 36. (Shut Down)
1:19:05 45- Revelations Online. Total Points: 38. (Jiggle Physics. Shut Down)
1:19:24 44- Camelot Unchained. Total Points: 38 (Not Released)
1:19:58 43- Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. Total Points: 40. (Not Released)
1:20:33 42- Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning. Total Points: 40. Shut Down. Fan server)
1:21:20 41- Ultima Online. Total Points: 41.
1:22:07 40- MapleStory. Total Points: 41.
1:22:35 39- DC Universe Online. Total Points: 44.
1:22:59 38- Rift. Total Points: 45. (Gamigo)
1:23:59 37- Runes of Magic. Total Points: 46.
1:24:37 36- Dauntless. Total Points: 46. (Not quite an MMO)
1:25:00 35- Destiny 2. Total Points: 46.
1:25:32 34- The Secret World Legends. Total Points: 51.
1:26:22 33- Dark Age of Camelot. Total Points: 51.
1:27:00 32- Phantasy Star Online 2. Total Points: 52.
1:27:34 31- Path of Exile. Total Points: 57.
1:28:22 30- Perfect World. Total Points: 58.
1:28:42 29- Lineage 2. Total Points: 59.
1:29:14 28- Archeage Unchained. Total Points: 60. (Shut Down in the West)
1:29:48 27- Throne and Liberty. Total Points: 60.
1:30:22 26- Dungeons and Dragons Online. Total Points: 62.
1:30:59 25- Everquest. Total Points: 63.
1:31:53 24- Warframe. Total Points: 69.
1:32:20 23- Bless Unleashed. Total Points: 69.
1:32:45 22- Star Trek Online. Total Points: 69.
1:33:11 21- Aion. Total Points: 71.
1:33:38 20- Star Citizen. Total Points: 73. (Not Released)
1:34:24 19- Crowfall. Total Points: 81.
1:34:46 18- TERA. Total Points: 93. (Shut Down on PC)
1:35:35 17- Ashes of Creation. Total Points: 95. (Not Released)
1:36:08 16- WoW Classic. Total Points: 104
1:36:46 15- Blade and Soul. Total Points: 126.
1:37:11 14- Runescape 3. Total Points: 133.
1:38:10 13- Lord of the Rings Online. Total Points: 147.
1:38:41 12- Neverwinter Online. Total Points: 149.
1:39:51 11- New World. Total Points: 153
1:40:59 10- Albion Online. Total Points: 214
1:41:54 9- EVE Online. Total Points: 224
1:42:56 8- Old School Runescape. Total Points: 247
1:43:38 7- Star Wars the Old Republic. Total Points: 254
1:44:20 6- Lost Ark. Total Points: 287
1:44:44 5- Black Desert Online. Total Points: 326
1:45:18 4- The Elder Scrolls Online. Total Points: 358
1:46:14 3- Guild Wars 2. Total Points: 475
1:47:16 2- Final Fantasy XIV. Total Points: 493
1:47:16 2- World of Warcraft. Total Points: 493
1:48:14 1-
Total games marked as unplayable (Shut Down/Not Released): 100*
Total games marked as "Not an MMO": 25*
Ur a G luv u
Why didn’t I find this earlier haha either way good shit man
Doing god's work
So is dofus in the list or did he mention it in the waven “review” and did he not talk about it after ?
Considering how Ragnarok Online was so popular from SEA and SA, it's surprising its not here.
if they bring back RO with only 2nd job
Probably because he was looking at English language top 10 lists. I bet it’s on some non-English top 10 lists
@macmac6064 The current version of the game is genuinely better and have a much more broad endgame that isn't just "kill this monster 10000 times to get a 0,01% drop"
Don't get me wrong, I love pre-renewal RO, but renewal RO did eventually get its shit together. I genuinely think that people should give it a chance, the official servers are still there and they are quite decent compared to private servers.
@einhasad7 Look who we found.
@einhasad7 I don't like doing millions upon millions of damage. it's just absurd.
Just imagine if they bring pre-renewal and keep developing it as it's own thing. Like Wow Classic+.
Enhance engine, do more modern stuff, networking, etc.
Holy shit that time stamp move was the most incredible power of that type I've ever seen on this platform. 10/10
0:18 spoiler alert 🚨 😮
1:17 men will literally tape together pages of a bloated excel sheet before learning how to use a pivot table
What a fantastic video. As someone who has worked professionally on designing parts of MMOs 162, 95, 44, 42, 12, 9, 8, 7, and 2, I greatly appreciate this video being made and the effort that went into it.
which 2, FF14 or WOW... or both? :O
gratz on your job
@Catwithsunglasses_ WoW. It is very hard for westerners to work on FFXIV.
@benpielstick
Tell that to Koji Fox. (Director of the English translation team in FFXIV. Born in the USA. Full name is Michael-Christopher Koji Fox.) Would not surprise me if there were more westerners working on FFXIV. Don't know each and every person working on FFXIV in some capacity. But Koji Fox is kind of hard to miss. :)
@Elora445something being hard to do doesn't mean that there's nobody doing it...
Starts at 11:25
Omg yes, I have been waiting for this since you showed that whole big taped up curtain sized excel spreadsheet
would make a fine carpet
oh shit it's dragon nest in nutshell guy
I've been waiting for Ann sequel
That reveal video was iconic lmao
Glad to see you here too rongrong. Been subbed since the Dragon Nest days✌
The spike in the replay metrics at 47:48 rivaling the spike of people that skipped straight to the last 2 or 3 is wild
I died laughing when I found out what part of the video this was.
i been half watching this on a second monitor, and looked over when he said jiggle physics, and his call out made me laugh to the point of crying. i replayed it a couple of times cuz how damn funny it was
I don't even play any MMO's or have interest, I'm just here to procrastinate and see random games, idk what to tell u
Honestly him mentioning something about Boobs then calling everyone out for looking is one of my fave bits.
I've never felt more called out than I do now.
now I need Josh to do a tier list of all the mugs shown at the 1:50:08 time stamp
I swear. This whole video has been
'Ooo. A new MMO to try."
'It's dead.'
'Damn it!'
No cause some of these genuinely looked interesting only to be followed with a "shut down in ____"
@ihatemondays2595 That's what I said.
@BeeWaifu ok!
@ihatemondays2595 Yeah no, but really liked a few of these but then he said they closed down. It's like what this video's synopsis was.
some of these have private servers. like, for example, he implied that SMT Imagine is fully gone but its not, there are servers.
Wow, that's such a trip to see my Jedi Gameplay video showing up 14 years later in someone's list, awesome stuff! You were funny as hell! :D
The ending is absolute cinema. Never expected that.
An actual Christmas miracle 😊 for one brief moment on a single RUclips video, there was peace
0:39 Welcome! Im Josh Dry Face. 😂
Reading this as he said it, I would argue "Jaw Stry Faze" 😆
The fact that Ragnarok Online didnt appear on this list at all is wild to me. Thought the game had enough notoriety to be on some lists at least compared to some of these games that have never been heard of before.
facts
if it makes you feel better City of Heroes was actually a big mmo back in the day, probably the biggest one right before WOW released, and it still was right at the beginning of the list lol
@LordLegenderwell ragnarok online has 200m global registered Player accounts, for a pay2play game kinda crazy
So I'm not going crazy. I was like where the hell is it
i was like... it have to be at least top 25 right? but it never appear
"and went Shin Megami Tensei: Offline in ..." Made me crack up.
45:12
I'm genuinely surprised not a single one of those videos or articles mentioned Ragnarok Online. Like how is Overwatch here, but not that?
I blame freemmostation.
It's incredible that Ragnarok Online doesn't even find a mention in this. Shaped my childhood.
Yeah I am surprised as well. It is such an amazing mmorpg. Need josh to cover it
It's probably because the list is based on players opinion of the USA, Ragnarok Online is easily one of the greatest MMOs in my country, and in fact it's good to be at least on top 20.
RO was incredibly popular back then even in the west. It definitely fell through the cracks because of methodology of the research
Beyond subjective opinions (like I personally don't enjoy Ragnarok Online too much) it was objectively an extremely influential game in the genre. AFAIK it introduced classes to MMOs with its job system, a variety of ways to customize characters mechanically and maybe infamously it was one of the first (there were other smaller ones that did it before but Ragnarok Online was massive: it had millions of players in Asia and Latin America) to include a cash shop where players could buy stuff with real money. All of this features would be done by many MMOs afterwards. Also I'm not sure about this but it might be the first one with a strongly anime-inspired aesthetic in-game (MapleStory came the year after).
I'm also surprised RO is not on the list. I played that for a while before the pandemic, and Dofus a lot (not in there too but Wakfu is?) when I was a teen.
I knew I have "bad taste" but having my beloved MMORPG being in 243 position, that's rough buddy
Being french really hurts it :/
It could be worse. You could be a Meridian 59 fan.
Getting placed behind Free Realms is tough lol
No dofus :(
As a City of Heroes enjoyer, I feel ya. There's something really funny about our favorites being below several games that aren't MMOs or never existed.
I love that you actually made the time stamp 😂
1:49:15 is a powerful quote.
One of the key takeaways seems to be that the MMO genre is littered with never-completed, dying, or relatively unknown games. It would be interesting to see someone take a similar methodology and apply it to another genre, and then compare the results. Could tell us something about the strengths, weaknesses, and particularities of MMOs. At any rate, excellent work, great commentary, and an interesting, innovative approach to the topic. Well done, as always.
And that the Chinese and Koreans really, REALLY like their MMO's
It always does surprise me just how many of these there are and are going on, simply because the costs in both developing and running MMOs are generally higher than those of other games.
@EvanCWatersThe Chinese are brought up to be more susceptible to Manipulation and as result are easier to monetize/take advantage of even despite that they have less funds to spare.
@andy02q they are statistically doing better than American citizens. To say americans have more fund to spare is hilarious considering that they have dramatically higher home ownership rates.
@andy02q like for real you gotta be a bot with a statement like that. Americans are the epitome of manipulated citizens. Our nation is trying to get everyone addicted to gambling and its working because Americans are bad at math
1:31:52 Warframe having 69 points…
Nice…
i'm surprised i didn't see a single mention to good ol' MU Online
LMAO 47:43 got my ass exactly
I've got a 12 hr drive tomorrow, be as long as possible.
Sadly under 2 hours. What gives?!!
Welp, time to play it on loop!
Drive safe
Patrician TV has you covered if you enjoy cynical Oblivion/Skyrim views (12 hour Oblivion video, 24 hour Skyrim video split, and an 8 hour really positive Morrowind video).
I feel like Wizard101 deserves some more recognition. The fact that a little card mmo designed for kids has been so successful and lasted so long is pretty impressive
designed for kids, yet is one of the most heavily paywalled game ever.
@Elipson52008 You a reetared
@bemixy5672 How are you gonna insult someone's intelligence with a grammatically incorrect word? 🤣
@Angrypickle5 😜
@bemixy5672 Not only grammatically incorrect but just incorrect. Quite the opposite, they're objectively correct.
Asheron’s Call had a decent rank. I’m happy :).
This was a phenomenal two hours very well spent. Thank you for the insightful words, and for your work as an MMO content creator as a whole. Looking forward to your next work.
Immediately amazed that City of Heroes, for how big and unique it was, had only ONE mention and is below a bunch of short-lived WoW clones and mobile games
I am strangely proud that a game my friend and I played in school, a game about which we still occasionally say "do you remember that?", Silk Road, was tied bottom of the list (# 239) lol. I also thought City of Heroes also being tied for the bottom is more insane though, yeah.
City heroes was pretty fun for a while
The problem with this ranking system is that City of Heroes would have got all its good reviews when it originally launched, but he’s only taking the last 20 years of reviews. That said, I’d like to see how the rankings look if he’d weighted them by age. I’d also like to see another MMO with as good a costume design system and as good a teaming system. No game so far has come close to either, which is a tragedy.
@stephencornelius3396 I found the Champions Online costume system, which is essentially the same since it was intended as a successor, an improvement in almost every way and its a huge shame that they know what they have now and its extremely locked down + nickel and dimed for players who joined after the game went free to play. I found the CoH system comparatively limited when going back and trying the revival server even though I absolutely loved it back when I played the original, but thats to be expected. I don't think any of the more modern superhero games even come close to either of them.
Especially since the game is currently running again.
"That was the last Star Wars movie I actually saw."
I envy you, Josh. I truly do.
1:45:30 Oblivion: Let me see your face, you are the one from my dreams.
worth watching the whole vid just for the Brass Eye quote @ 1:47:31
Josh you can literally turn this into an academic paper.
this is basically a popularity contest with the method we use in communication studies called "computer-assisted quantitative content analysis": basically you take bunch of texts, search for specific keywords and enumerate how many times they were utilized along with whether they were used in a positive or negative manner (you also have a scale, that's better), aggregate the results and present / summarize it in the article.
you can actually publish these results in a scientific journal* for a fee, you may approach an academic from a communication department for that academic to be 2nd author to get funding covered by the university itself.
*although it would be nice to attach the data to the article but most would look at the summary in the article
You get to do work if you pay other people for the privilege, lmao.
It gets better, they get your paper and sell it back to you @4mb127yes academia is stupid
Not with this methodology he couldn't.
@mercster what method? the one where he didnt pay the IRB to review his information?
@4mb127 submitting an article to journals costs between 1500 to 3000 USD with no guarantee of approval, so it's kind of better to do the work yourself and let someone be a 2nd author to get that fee covered by an institution.
academia is harsh right now...
My father was in a coma the last 30 years, I watched this beside his hospital bed. When Josh brought up jiggle he woke up and turned the screen towards himself. Thanks Josh I have my dad back!
its time for you to get breast transplant
Thick eyes save lives.
its a miracle
I want to believe this actually happened 🥲. A true Christmas Miracle.
1:40:55 "New World has fixed its mistakes and maybe it will redeem itself over the coming years" - This statement has aged like fine milk. :D
Josh Strife "Second Monitor Content" Hayes got me. 1 hour and 10 minutes into the video I remembered the timestamp in the description, blindly clicked and got bamboozled. Well played, sir. Well played.
Someone from FreeMMOstation had a time machine, saw an alternate universe version of this video, went back in time and convinced people to play the longest prank ever.
Thanks for this, Josh! As it turns out, I AM a data scientist, and while I might have a pedantic objection over the points system (would recommend a formula to standardize lists lower or greater than 10 to still rate on a ten-point scale so each video/article contributes the same amount), I will still certify this as sciencey enough to be objective reality. :D Thanks for all the effort and your endlessly entertaining commentary.
Wait o didnt watch the whole video ofc, he didnt standarize the point system? Thats not s pedantic objection lmao, if he didnt do that hes r t r ded
@jmm00702 You might think that scoring top 1 out of 5 and top 1 out of 25 should be worth the same, but calling people slurs because of it is not a good look, buddy. Also you had to just watch the first few minutes of the video to learn how the scores were assigned.
@Malthan This is an MMO video, calling people slurs is recognizing their value
Nerd.
@AVeryHumanReviewerAndNotABot take max games per video*, populate rest of the videos with blanks on tiers missing.
47:48 Oh... erm that's awkward... Hi Josh! Good to see you!
47:50 He got me
On a personal note, I did not expect to be attacked like this
I can proudly say I watched through to the end and what a satisfying end it is. Watching the list feels like walking through memory lane rather than watching a tier list. Thank you for your hard work in making this video.
The effort behind this, from all the research to getting all the data and assembling all the footage is remarkable. Excellent video, well done. 👏
47:57 FIRST AND LAST TIME I HEAR OF THIS GOAT!!!!
The level of dedication to spend months of prep work just to take the piss is amazing enough to make me need to support you on patreon.
45:05 Fun fact: 'Shin Megami Tensei: Nine' is not the ninth game in the series
the "welcome back" joke honestly never gets old
damn Josh, you took this "top 10 tier list" thing into a whole new level.
Great job, much appriciated
I know it's not meant to be taken seriously, but one takeaway I got from this video is that Dofus players need to start making Top MMO lists. It's strange that both Wakfu and Waven are here but not Dofus, when it's the original Ankama game, more popular than both, and has gone through the same process as RuneScape and World of Warcraft in having both a modern and a classic version of the game running at the same time.
Also, shoutout to Rubies of Eventide my beloved. Fun video Josh.
Hopefully with the launch of Dofus 3, youtubers start picking it up. I would love to hear Josh's opinions in my favorite game. 😢
I'm actually happy Wakfu has been mentioned. I was scared it wouldn't even appear. I have been playing since it released and never really quite understood why it always stayed so unpopular on Steam. The vibes, looks, stories, aesthetics, etc everything is so good about it.
@SimonBrewso sadly the company behind it, is completely neglecting it (the way josh said the games only con is its french, might be a joke but us damn so true sadly)
@amine1087 They're still releasing updates, making new content, and reworking old content on a regular basis. "completely neglecting it" is a wild hyperbole.
Fully agree!
I'm just happy I got mine (Over decade in wakfu and still going strong, actually kinda hyped for the new patch as well since we FINALLY get nox as a boss to punch!)
Elite Dangerous wasn't shut down. Further development was shelved on the consoles but that is very very much not the case on the PC, where after some stutters it has since gone from strength to strength.
102 AQW ill take it. I LOVE THAT GAME
I've been playing Ragnarok Online for about 20 years now, I really do not understand how it didn't manage to show up here 😅. It is VERY popular where I live, with thousands of daily unique players, but well, it is what it is, excellent work Josh.
So glad to see many people asking about the game missing in the comments, i was quite sad at first to not see it ranked highly and then find out it's not on the list at all. It's obviously not my "best game" choice but 100% the most fun i've had with a game (first mmo experience and all)
happy I saw this comment right away, because now I know to skip the video. An MMO list without RO, ridiculous
Never played RO but it feels like it's been a staple of the genre since forever. It absolutely should've been on the list.
That just means it wasn't in any top X lists. If you watched until 10:35 you wouldn't be making these comments.
@hyperstimmedthen you should skip all MMO video. This MMO list is made by referencing hundreds on MMO list video.
Logan Thackeray: I'm on the cover!
lmfao
Oh huh almost missed him - he's covered by yshtola's staff
Buying 'overwatch' for the entire crew of a movie but it turned out he bought Battleborn for everyone is such a Jared Leto thing to do haha
Gw2 is the ultimate MMO
I find it genuinely bizarre that Ragnarok Online didn't make the list, the game was massive back in the early 2000s, not even seeing it here is weird.
I'm wondering the same. He mentioned the game in another Ragnarok and I was waiting for it to be mentioned. Not a single point? Wow
Same hahaha I was waiting for him to mention RO 😅
Ragnarok Online not being in the top 10% makers this list illegitimate. Plus my two other personal favorites are either too far down or not on it at all.
What this person, who claims to be ‘scientific’ did wrong, was not account for the fact that the amour of articles and video’s is een extremely inflated post 2010.
He is wrong, and therefore a terrible person.
Why am I saying this? Again, I slightly disagree with this gentleman. I am only partially trolling 😂
Same! I thought i missed it, but it's not on the list apparently, blasphemy!
I went here to say that too! I thought it would be in the list for sure. It was so big in the 2000s and even early 2010s.
Josh: I'm going to rank every MMO ever for science
freeMMOstation: I'm about to ruin this man's whole career
awesome video, been looking forward to this!
That guy literally ruins Josh sanity 🤣🤣🤣.
This is just proof that even one bad entry in a data sheet can ruin all the results
amazing video, just extremely curious how ragnarok online isn’t on here considering it’s significantly more popular to this day than 99% of these games.
Maybe Josh didn't search BR and PH articles and videos 😂
I watched it and I liked it.
This video is monitor 1 content.
"Don't let content creators like me tell you which game you should like" and "Play what makes you happy". These are two quotes I am going to live by in 2025. Tired of hearing which games should make me mad.
10/10 video
I haven't played a AAA or "popular" game besides FF14 since FF7 Rebirth. Plus side: I have so much more fun with games diving super deep into my preferred niches. Downside: It's a lot harder to join in on conversations with my friends lmao I also specifically don't watch "negative" videos like worst of lists or "Why [popular thing] is bad actually" which I unequivocally recommend.
@47:50 LOL when right then I look over at my left monitor to see him teasing me because I looked at the monitor for precisely the reason he said.
Hahaha I knowww I came to comment this. He got me so bad.. I'm in shambles
I feel so seen! Thanks Josh!
thank you brother, thank you brother
Flyff being that low is criminal.
Dofus is clearly the best.
7:15 love it someone knows the value of his work. I enjoy your videos
I’m going on around 8 years on and off of final fantasy xiv! It’s truly a special game in general not just as a mmo.
But the world building and story telling is incredible! The players are happy to help new players and they are some of the kindest people I have talked to! The story again is incredible! Made me laugh, cry and get mad because the story is that good!(especially shadowbringers and endwalker though there is not one expansion that I did not like!) the ost/music/songs are spectacular! And you gain a better understanding of answers after one point in the game! And each ost matches each area and story perfectly! God i love this game!
This video is truly a piece of art. It's written beautifully, with wit, humour and a poignant message. You're not wrong when you say it's a magnum opus - just not what the viewer is initially led to believe. Outstanding!
Getting called out by 141 was real dirty and hilarious. Thank you for all your hardwork in making this awesome video.
is that jessica nigri?
@ yea back from like Kawaii-Con 2014
Lol, same man, just having this on while working from home. :')
That was really funny for me. Watching it too on my second monitor. Or rather, listening and looking time to time.
"Consult the chart" was a bit I thought would get old but it did not. Very funny
Josh 8 months late this video was great mate ❤
You chose not to take the opportunity to put any sponsored game in 1:48:20. I respect that, but it would still be hilarious.
stunned at how low city of heroes was on the list, had a ton of goodwill in the circles i ran in
I have to assume that he didn't find many lists from the era when it was big.
I'm AMAZED that city of heroes only appeared on one of your sources. This methodology heavily weights popular games, and City of Heroes was really popular in the day.
Beaten out by all those unreleased games but it's #1 in my heart 🫡
Yeah, it's crazy. If you look up lists specifically ranking superhero mmos City of Heroes is almost always at the top.
curse of being a 2004 release when the timeframe of the sources is 2004-2024, meaning the only real chance to show up was in the earliest sources, and those were also during the goldrush years so there were a plethora of similarly popular games surrounding it. it's pretty much luck of the draw for anything from that period that didn't have massive, lasting popularity and/or re-releases later down the line that put it back on the radar. mmos released in 2004 and earlier in particular are extra likely to be missing, as their development/launch popularity windows ended before the start of the source data.
this is what I'm surprised by most. I know many friends who played and have high praise for it. did it only score like 1 point? it was 245th or something?
This surprised me too. I figured the popularity of the private servers and how big the relaunch was would've netted it some more acknowledgement.
One of, if not the best character creator in any game. And a pretty decent game overall for the time.
4:30 The only flaw in this otherwise perfectly objective and scientific system is that it strangely favors games on longer lists. A game ranked 10th in a list of 20 will get 10 points while a game ranked 10th on a list of 10 only gets 1.
I'm going to make a video called The Top 10,000 MMO's of All Time and put Knack 2 in every spot so that you have to do this differently next time.
I watched the whole video and made a note of every game that was 1. Actually an MMO 2. In English 3. Still online and 4. Josh seems to have a positive opinion of. So I guess here's the list of the 58 actual recommendations from this video.
239 silk road online
200 closers online
197 fallen earth classic
187 dragon quest x
171 Draconica online
169 knight online
168 flyff online
153 adventure quest
152 Palia
147 9 dragons
144 conquerer blade
143 mabinogi
133 dragon nest
120 genshin impact
116 rappelz
110 corepunk
109 Atlentica online
106 spiral knights
102 adventure quest worlds
100 vindictus
93 champions online
92 fallout 76
91 brighter shores
84 anarchy online
81 sea of thieves
80 pirate 101
77 Tibia
71 continent of the 9th
67 Tree of savior
65 Project gorgon
62 wizard 101
60 skyforge
59 Guild wars 1 (Only kinda an MMO)
52 Trove
48 final fantasy 11
47 Planetside 2
41 ultima online
40 maplestory
39 dc universe online
34 the secret world legends
33 dark age of Camelot
32 fantasy star online 2
31 path of exile (Only kinda an MMO)
27 throne and liberty
26 dungeons and dragons online
25 everquest
24 warframe
21 Aion
16 wow classic
15 blade and soul
14 runescape 3
13 lord of the rings online
10 albion online
8 old school runescape
7 star wars the old republic
3 guild wars 2 *
2 / 1 WoW / FF14
wrong way to go about this.. there is stuff listed as not out yet that are very playable right now and other stuff that didn't get listed as early access still on your list
I think every programmer watching this just had a collective panic attack when they saw that spreadsheet.
So, Josh, first of all, this is really impressive work.
I just hope it makes more people aware of your Otherland series, it deserves so much more recognition.
And how funny is it that even outside of your Twitch chat, you can't escape the 50/50 curse lol
I've never heard of Otherlands and now I'm interested. I think I've read some other books/ seen some anime inspired by Otherlands so I'm now really interested to see where it all started from.
@Zunedoodle77go watch his playthrough. Its amazing.
@Zunedoodle77 The MMO was inspired by the (quite successful) book. It had amazing surrealist level design but the studio went bankrupt. Eventually it released as a bit of a buggy mess and shut down some time ago. Definitely check out Josh's playthrough, he might be the only person to have completed it.
That summation at the end *chefs kiss*
Is there a way we can buy *THE CHART* as a poster printout to hang on my wall?