My whole job is working in a code base that has been rolling forward for over ten years. There's no such thing as "we can't do that in the code base", only "we don't think it's worth the money to do that in the old code base" and "we have contractual obligations related to the old code base that we can skirt by moving to a new one". If I had to guess, 2024 is going to remove the Legacy FM, which would break some of the aircraft that got ported to 2020 from FSX. Multi-crew and the newer streaming tech probably also breaks a lot of third-party stuff. Easier to just launch a new version than deal with the fallout of that.
I'm in the "chill out and wait" camp. They have already assured us that all market place add-ons will work in the new sim and I am very confident that if a payware mod, not in the MP, does not work, that the developers will make the necessary changes. Long story short, why worry about it, in the end the sim will be better and life will go on...
Same, I too appreciate how you've broadened your content to cover more flight sim in general. You have a fine delivery style and ASMR voice to go with.
Also same - I subscribed after seeing your fantastic exploration videos, but after Frontier unceremoniously threw console users under the bus, I'm purely Flight Sim now. I feel like I experienced the best years of Elite though, and will always fondly remember Distant Worlds 2.
I just really hope FS2024 comes with a weather radar and adds ground effect, microbursts and windshears to the sim! Even if they opened up the weather API for third party developers it would be nice as we could get to see HiFi develop activesky for MSFS and include weather radar with it.
Yes these are my top requests. Dangerous weather and proper flight mechanics. A weather radar is pointless in MSFS because the weather offers absolutely 0 dangers to any aircraft.
I don't think it will get worse - it will more likely be just the same level. I'd bet they'll create some more robust and option packed "rolling cache" (so you can select what exactly you wanna keep on your SSD like POIs + PG + map tiles + AI aircraft) or the option to download and keep individual packages instead of streaming them. They surely know that there are still people around with 2 Mbit connections or worse.
@@weswheel4834 what kind of processing should this be? The GPU needs to load everything which was processed online previously from some temp folder located on the SSD through the RAM/VRAM which is 99% of the load pulled from online and which is currently packed into individual packages (aircraft, POIs, airports - 3D objects and textures in general and some scripts). Everything else is live traffic and weather information which can be handled as of now. What might be processed online is the look of the ground tiles when it comes to seasons so you may end up flying "all summer" in a region cached ages ago as that color grading could be done server side globally - everything else can be handled by offline modes like it currently is (using traffic and weather presets). They would have nothing to implement here as these modules (also for boat and road traffic) already exist since FSX the latest.
@@deltak5457 It is an interesting point, and I don't think they're saying that you won't need a good GPU (or CPU) any more. But they have said I think that the client will be smaller. It can't just be seasonal processing, because this doesn't happen yet. I don't know tbh, but it did sound like to take advantage of it you would need a decent internet connection.
yea but if you have a gigabit speed, the game actually gets better graphically, on top of running super smooth and awesome. Kinda no excuse for people to have shitty internet connections these days. Move to a blue state if you dont want issues i reckon. Republican run states dont do shit for their infrastructure, but thats not something that cant be overcome.
The devs should not be running into hard technical limits within three years of their super high tech real-scale Earth game engine... that seems alarming to me. I'm hopeful but worried for this new game.
It's not just alarming, it takes away their credibility. They said that 2020 would be the standard for a decade and suddenly all the features they announced went to 2024, said it's a technical issue and called it a day, making us pay for a new game if we want it. I wouldn't trust them anymore is what I'm saying. If they say "this will be the game that lasts 10 years" is pretty much a "trust me bro"
Depends on what they're doing with it. In part, if I understand correctly, the current sim still has (or had) a fair chunk of decrepit FSX code lurking under the hood for some things. If they're finally getting rid of all that and moving on to an entirely modern engine without that baggage it will be a good step in the right direction. I'm just hoping the new sim will still be playable on what just three years ago was a pretty sturdy rig. It's not just the cost of the new game, it's the cost of potentially a new video card to have it be enjoyable.
I'm sure 2024 is not built from the ground up again, so it could clearly, from a technical standpoint", just be an upgrade to FS2020. I don't buy their excuse. It just costs a lot of money and income has dried up. They need more money to work on it. I've been simming since FS2000, bought the top version of 2020 when it came out, and it has been the single sim I regret buying. It was too expensive for very little benefit over base version. And it never got better. Or barely. I won't be buying into 2024 if it's not a $20 upgrade, tops.
Considering the amount of updates they released it's not alarming to me. If you compare with fdev, in 3 years asobo went further than what fdev could ever do with ED
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I'm very excited to see what MSFS 2024 will bring and until then, I'll just keep enjoying MSFS 2020 which already is what I only could dream about when I started enjoying this hobby many, many years ago.
I would like to as well... But as I just play it from time to time, it just isn't for me... Every time I start it after some update, I'll never know how it'll turn out. Will it run flawlessly and I'll have a blast? Will it lag like crazy and be unplayable forcing me to to hours of troubleshooting to see if I can fix it? There's no way to find out!
I'd rather we get more accurate information later rather than a lot of overhyped information now which then leads to disappointment. We just have to be patient and see what it looks like when it comes out. None of my decisions right now are relying on this information, happy to see how it goes.
Moving computation online and customization usually don't go together. I think it will have advantages for casual players but others will become frustrated when they want to change something. An example would be how you can't even set the external Field of View, meaning many people have to manually set zoom to 70 every single flight. I think that aspect of MSFS will not get better but worse.
One thing I would love to see in the future is volcanic activity. We got many active volcanoes on earth and it would be fun to see some of them in action and also how that would affect the weather and air traffic control. Also, like the volcanic fissure eruptions in Iceland, it would be pretty cool to see the lava fields after the eruptions are over and that they're modelled in after time so we can go back in time to kinda study the evolution of the lava fields in a much interactive way than we've been able to before.
I think the free sim Flight Gear has volcanic eruptions in Iceland. Though I am a beginner and idk, have not tried it, just using to learn SAAB viggen in the moment. 🎉
I'm hoping MSFS 2024 will integrate with some sort of large language model AI platform and provide sim pilots with the ability to actually speak to air traffic control like a normal pilot would. These LLMs have gotten really good at understanding normal human conversation and being able to generate natural replies, and the text to speech engines are also getting to the point where it is hard to even tell that it is not a real person. This seems like a perfect fit for ATC.
@@emperornephew6487You need to keep in mind that Microsoft Flight Simulator has always been more of a software platform akin to other Microsoft products like Microsoft Office or Microsoft SQL Server rather than a video game. Microsoft typically introduces a new major version of their software platforms on a cadence of ever 3 to 4 years. It usually coincides with major changes under the hood, and MSFS is no different. The developers over at Asobo are running up against hard limitations in MSFS 2020's simulation engine that they would like to be rid of, and in order to do that, they are going to need to make sweeping changes to it. This justifies a new major version release that will come with a bunch of benefits to users and add-on developers that will make it a better product than its predecessor. If you want to experience all of these new features, then you will need to purchase the new version, as software developers don't work for free and they need to raise revenue to keep everyone at Asobo employed. This is also why game developers release sequels to their successful games (have you ever bought a sequel to a video game you liked?) If you don't want to purchase the new version, then you can continue using MSFS 2020. It is going to keep receiving bug fixes, performance updates, and might even get features that the new version introduces if Asobo can figure out a way to back-port those features into the older version. Support for MSFS 2020 will go on until 2030, and at that point you are going to need to upgrade if you still want to receive updates. Just as an FYI, the day is coming when you will no longer be able to purchase Microsoft software products at all. They are moving everything to monthly subscriptions, and I guarantee that Microsoft Flight Simulator will make that transition as well. Once that is done, as long as you are paying the monthly subscription, then you will always have access to the latest version. Take that as you will.
Its no secret that Microsoft want all their products on a Subscription model, they said as much a few yrs ago, Windows OS Subscription is coming. Might be a good times to get back into Linux.
Technical limits may be mostly related to ensuring compatibility with extensions. This was historically the main reason to sell a new version: allow to drop support for plugins made for previous major releases. A plugin communicates with Flight Simulator engine with the limits of something called an Interface: it is the technical way to define a contract that can be extended with new access points, but existing access points can't be removed of modified without dropping support. For each access point, those contracts can allow synchronous or asynchronous calls: asynchronous calls are better for long-running computations like in-game virtual screens, but adds more management complexity and risk of failures. Adding compatibility layers to keep support for old contracts adds complexity and reduce overall engine performance. These are my humble opinions about those technical limits. Feel free to comment on this or telling me if I am wrong or not ;-)
Developers go silent when they are heads down so I do not expect to hear anything till early mid next year since it would likely come out end of next year. So nothing to see here at the moment does not mean we should be worried, it is too early. It means we can talk about aviation simulators and perhaps other products like X-Plane 12 in the meantime.
The difference is, they will phase out support for 2020 eventually, and everyone who wants to fly MSFS and on updated computers will have to upgrade. I have no issue with this, as a 4 year lifespan is actually quite a nice ride that I don't get out of most games that I purchase. I for one will be one of the first to buy 2024 and, I don't care how "significant" an upgrade it will be...I will support Asobo, as they have shown overwhelmind dedication and support of their customers, unlike many developers. They have done more than than most by far.
So I think they actually already told us enough to make sense of most of this. We know there are a lot of things they kept saying they were working on and just didn't happen, and now, as you said, they said they basically decided it would be easier to rewrite core-level code of the system rather than try to update this system. What would that be? I think they've mentioned two things that on their own both A. would require an engine-level revamp, and B. would be worth it. First, multithreading. I have a VERY beefy computer. (13th gen i7, RTX 4070, 64 gigs of ddr 5 ram, 2 tb. SATA III ssd) and I STILL get stutters when I fly into big cities with ultra graphics, which is nuts. And there's nothing I can do about it, because the bottle neck is that they don't have it set up to use all the cores and threads in my processor. This is normal for normal games, but of course MSFS is not a normal game. In order to program in multi threading that can make full use of modern processors, they need a pretty fundamental overhaul. I fully expect that a lot of the stuttering and crashing and lag will be resolved with MSFS 2024, at least, for those who have the privilege of using high end computers. That alone will be worth it for me. Second, new photogrammetry. We all know it is going to be "better" but I think a lot of people focused on the "smaller downloads, more cloud" part, and missed a REALLY IMPORTANT tech part Jorg mentioned, which is that they have taught their AI to do better photogrammetry extrapolated from 2d photos. This is huge. Currently photogrammetry requires a series of photographs with parallax in order to extrapolate the spatial relationships. I do this in my work as a museum photographer by mounting two cameras on a long metal pipe so they take pictures of an object from two angles simultaneously. To get photogrammetry of cities you need to have an airplane with a special kind of camera rig fly over territory at relatively low altitudes photographing everything bellow. As you can imagine, this is not always welcome. I have been one of the folks long complaining that the "world" updates are largely Europe + Countries that Speak English, and have longed for better quality scenery for places like China, India, Tanzania, Mexico, or Brazil. The problem is that I can absolutely promise you that China will NEVER allow Microsoft to just fly out and take high quality photogrammetry surveys of anywhere in the PRC. (You might recall that Arma 3 devs were actually detained while trying to take surveys of islands in the Aegean on suspicion of being spies.) And other countries may be more open to photogrammetry surveys but have poor weather. If its raining your big expensive photogrammetry flight will give you nothing. I spend a lot of time doing research in Nepal, and I would love to see that better rendered in the flight sim, but it's a perfect storm of a government with a lot of red tape, a long highly militarized border with China, and weather that ranges from awful to dangerous for 10 months out of the year. The implementation of the new photogrammetry technology they say they've got would be an absolute game changer, but I can easily imagine that it would also take a lot of work on the code level to get it to integrate properly. As anyone in Canada may have noticed, the relationship between photogrammetry and the sim engine is already pretty tenuous and that is just dealing with the conventional stuff. All in all, if there is nothing more than those two changes, I still think the next version of the sim will be revolutionary.
I think 2024 will be an iterative update so far as how the SIM looks and plays, but it's clear that it will be far more focused on things like career modes, rescue missions and the like. I use Neofly and APL2, so I'm interested to see what they bring to the table to compete with external stuff like that.
If they can launch 2024 with proper multi threading support while still supporting external mods I'll happily pay for it without caring too much about what else they add.
“Flight simulators” and especially the MS flight simulator series, are notoriously difficult to optimize for multi-core utilization, because they are so math/computation intensive! The more realistic they are, the more impossible it becomes to fully implement this! The more “game-y” the easier it becomes! That is exactly why CPU speed is the single most important factor in playing the sim smoothly and at great frame rates (and, to a certain extent, as we’re seeing now with the new AMD processors like the Ryzen 7800X3D, big L3 cache also plays a fairly important part). That said, they can always do some more optimization to make some tangible improvements, because every little bit helps! For example, in certain demanding situations, if they can just go from, say low 20s FPS to low 30s FPS, as well as eliminate or seriously reduce stutters, would be a huge improvement in the enjoyment of the sim! What I’m basically saying, is they will never be able to achieve the kind of “very high” multi-core utilization, as can be done with other demanding programs or even games!
@@747-pilot I don’t think that’s correct at all. while there will always be a need for a fast main single core, dcs pulled it off multithreading for both the render thread and other computational tasks. Mutlithreading is also very important for vr since there are double the frame demand. Multithreading will be huge if done right
I've greatly enjoyed 2020. But I'm fine with a new Sim if it's greatly improved. I mostly fly vfr sight seeing and would love a huge graphical upgrade for certain terrain.
@@pwcorgi2000 I actually have a pilots license (there’s a video of me doing a takeoff on my channel), but I just fly single-engine aircraft and don’t know how to fly jets. I also use flight sims for primarily sight-seeing as well. I don’t have the patience to sit there for hours going through the procedures like some RUclipsrs lol.
I know I'm a weirdo, but I would love at some point to see a company like Asobo leverage the vast info in OpenStreetMap to procedurally generate an open Whole World racing/driving sim. I would love to drive some of the roads you see flying around in the sim. The ground buildings wouldn't have to be 100% accurate, just representative. A decent physics engine and effort put in to off-road activities as well could be a massive game.
At this point it is a struggle to provide a map that at least looks OK when flying a couple of hundred meters above surface. Most of us would like a drivng/trucking/train sim like that, but it will not happen for a very-very long time, if ever.
@@optimalkfrt Not so far I think as that. The visual rendering needs on the ground for a road vehicle would be much different. Flight sims engines needs to be able to render detail at any altitude at distances far greater than a ground-based sim would, and handle it at vehicle speeds far beyond land ones as well. Creating a functional global road network would be the challenge. That could be done in stages by only including the main routes to begin with.
I know some of the ATS fans get very snippy, if you ask for free roam or even drive a car. Some of them say 'This is a semi-truck sim. Play GTA or Forza Horizon if you want to do that.' This really gripes me. Adding free roam / drive a car ability doesn't hurt anything. Actually it helps ATS get more money for dev purposes.
There is perhaps the possibility of Microsoft using the 2020 format of world mesh and scenery thus keeping it compatible with 2024, and using the file header like xplane does for new functions within the scenery. The code base I think will be get rid of all the old underlying ESP code
With that, I wish they would make MSFS combined with full ops, RW battles like live traffic, live battle space. Combine it, just like now in real world, we just won’t fly over dangerous situations. I wish the crashes were realistically possible, crash and burns.
Based on my 2020 MS Flt Sim, Australian trees are everywhere on the end of runways. Also Bing crap maps. I've ben a pilot since 1957, and having had MS X, a logical start-up and I expected better.
They delivered a lot of what was promised in 2020. But not everything they promised. These things are now promised in 2024. I say maybe offer owners of 2020 at least a minor discount for 2024. I don't see them doing this though. But I also don't see myself paying full price for 2024 either.
@@omg-vert wrong. These are features that were requested by the community. They were never promised. They tried to get them into 2020 then realized massive rewrites of the architecture would be required to make them work. This amount of work made releasing a new version make sense. New versions require new purchases, plain and simple.
@@tubeloobs Perhaps I misunderstood the part @:20 where he said Much anticipated features are being moved from 2020 to 2024. I had the audio on in the background and didn't see it was listed under "WISHLIST". If that's the case then I'm wrong.
I'm like you . . . I am interested to see what 2024 offers, but honestly . . . I'm pretty happy RIGHT NOW, with what I've got. Getting a new flight simulator is kind of like getting a new computer. Sure, it's nice and probably runs much better, and so on. But there is also that horrible "settling in" time - of getting adjusted to the new game, getting settings just right, learning a new style of using it. It's a bit of a pain, even if it's worth it. I'm almost exclusively flying 2020 with the A2A Comanche 250, and I really can't think of anything I don't like. So I look forward to seeing what the new game looks like, but I'll probably stick with what I have for quite some time. (Also, my old laptop probably won't run the new game, and I just don't have the income to buy a new one. Sad.)
@@moondiegordr My flying is very tame. I fly point to point, and just enjoy the scenery and the realistic flight model, along with the challenge of IFR navigation. If you don't have it, you should find out about the A2A Comanche. It has some additional features that run outside the sim, which really seems to add a more realistic feel to flying. (My own real world experience includes some GA flying and time in Naval aviation.)
@@moondiegordr I'm similar to Black Beard, I use it for chilling out flights and things like that. I pick a start point, pick a direction, then I fly until I've had enough. It's not for everyone but it does suit me.
@@moondiegordr lol you don't know the flight sim audience. We can use the same simulator for a decade if allowed and able. I use it to practice IFR procedures and still for some VFR fun. As @blackbeardsghost6588 said, it's like switching to a whole new PC when you change sims. I have thousands in panels and hardware, radio stack, touchscreen with Air Manager...so when a new sim comes out it's hours upon hours of setup. Hell...just setting up a new aircraft with the controls and plugins to drive the hardware panels takes an hour to map all of the sim events, Lvars.... The Sim v Casual Flyer market is vast and their expectations of features is worlds apart. I care zero for any type of career modes or missions, but others will only play with those types of features available
@@moondiegordr Dozens of different aviation activities out of 40,000 airports in infinite weather and time of day combinations and in hundreds of aircraft types. Just for starters.
5:33 wtf ? The updated code being online make it worse as you have to get it at every launch instead of when the update is pushed… seems like a java fiasco all over again…
It's ads. It's about presenting you micro-targeted Advertising, every time you launch the sim (and it connects to the cloud). You can avoid those ads for a monthly fee, of course. It's always about monetization (recurring fees, or ad revenue), and of course your larger usage-pattern data...that's worth some coin, too.
Prediction ? Targeted ads are as old as web browsers… Tracking cookies… You are one of these absolute loonies that discover life decades after everyone else and feel empowered by the word of god ? Analytics, metrics, all can be part of the codebase from day 0 no need for downloadable code on launch. Especially for the steam version. With photogrametry the sim is constantly downloading gigabytes of data at every flight and sending back whatever info it wants. Go back to your soapbox you are bringing jacksh1t to the conversation.
Am an optimist! MSFS 2020 was spectacular and one of my favourite games which is why I am confident that the next entry will be just as good or better.
MSFS2020 had some key problems for a "sim" that I hope are fixed in FS2024. The inability to set weather limits to IFR standards easily (such as 200 overcase and 1800 rvr) for example are a problem for something labeling itself as a flight sim IMO. If they can resolve the weather issues, some night lighting that alone would be worth the upgrade to me. I hope at launch of 2024 the multiplayer flight decks stuff is there (allowing players to work as pilot/copilot or crew.) Crew abilities would be a gamechanger compared to all the other sims out now, and I think bring in a LOT more people. I'm surprised that Seasons was moved to 2024 - but if this was a limitation perhaps it was something to do with the install size getting too big with so many textures and models where the next version can possibly change this. Perhaps a rewrite will also allow them to move away from the single world thread type of game engine that its been using and move to what more modern game engines use with the asynchronous multi core world thread ideas. If this is the case we could see some much more powerful thing come about form the sim as we are currently very limited by this.
My main worry is most of thr sim data being online,my connection speed is at best 77 Mb p/s but as the last update proved that figure is entirely theoretical.I was seeing speeds as low as 2Mb p/s and it stuck on the last bit of decompression causing me to do a reset which is the same as a reinstall.That took from four n the afternoon to four the following morning and I still had to reinstall a load of aircraft and all world updates.With that amount of data relying on the cloud for transmission to our PC's I'm not exactly brimming with confidence.I will wait to see how early users get on....................................
I think the sole reason for MSFS 2024 is that MSFS 2020 isn't selling as good as it was. Most people into flight sim will have already bought the game. They can't keep working on updates if they have no cash at hand. It will probably just feel like a big update to the current game and the trailer has probably already shown most of it
Thank you for the viewpoint. I think you are spot on, and how can they possibly continue with another version when they cannot seem to correct the one they have. Again thanks for the informative videos and appreciate your views on this.
In addition to waiting for MS2024 to release instead of getting MS2020, I’ll probably wait to buy a new PC as well. I want to be able to play in high resolution, so I’d presumably need a later model PC.
I see no downsides. The sim gets a huge update and I get to pay to keep its development going. Any other community would be hyped to pay $60 every 4 years for more core engine updates. I’m not sure what the major fuss is, so.
def something that needs some fixing is the missing patches of sattelite imagery and the clouds on scenery but, its hard to get a full image of everything
Asobo will become the NEW Dovetail Games. Release a new version each yr to try & get you to buy & ignore the previous versions going forward. All they care about is you giving them money.
I don't have a small internet speed but I still wait a long time for airports to download from the marketplace. I've done all the tweaks to the system I found online and still no good.
Sounds like a bunch of mission scenarios mixed in with some game upgrades. MSFS2020 has the best G1000 simulation out of the box. Works very realistically with my G1000 hardware so I’m sticking with it.
I think that the next FSS2024 will have an improved engine that will have multi threading enhancements, updated bing maps and all world updates of 2020 will be native in 2024. The main addition will be activities, jobs. It’s a way to fund the next additions to the game (a dlc of new content sold as brand new game)
I recently got a series S console and MSFS is available on that now . Is this based on 2020 MSFS ? Is the new 2024 version a whole new verion or upgradable add on ? Im not sure if I should wait till next year to get it or just get the current version with all the available DLC so far to date ?
They figured out that they need a monthly subscription model to sustain the server cost. That's what 2024 will be, 2020 support will, no matter what they say now, end with 2024 releasing. My 5 cent.
Regardless of the advancements of MSFS is the owner will own nothing but the ability to fly by having an required account...won't independently own the flight program. Why I will stick with XP!
My first thoughts are that moving more of the simulator content to the cloud is likely to be a bad thing for people with slow connections, rather than good. Currently, there's a HUGE amount of data that you need to get once. And then it's run from your machine and some data is then streamed on top of that. If the majority is streamed, it means it will be downloaded all the time you're flying. If your connection is slow you might well end up with photogrammetry, textures and maybe even mesh data streamed in and a dynamically changing view of the world as you fly. I think I'd really like to see more detail about this before assuming it's good for everyone. Things like sim updates, I'm not sure how much they can do on the cloud unless they stream the whole thing like stadia etc (which is definitely a bad thing for people with slow connections). I don't think they could do that without the game being a subscription. So I'd rule that out. Sim updates are usually to the base code, then the textures, panels, models for aircraft/airports etc as well as code for running systems (like glass cockpits etc). I don't see how these can be reliably streamed, except for some kind of "first use caching". As for sim updates in 2020/2024. I would assume some crossover time of a year or two max after 2024 release. But beyond that I'd expect nothing except basic updates/bugfixes in 2020 after that. They will most certainly not support two products fully. Since they're implying the engine is the problem, they would mostly need to double effort a lot of the sim updates and probably have some validation of world updates. That's time they won't want to spend on what will quickly become a "legacy product". I'm very much in a "wait and see" mode for this overall. There's far too many questions beyond even these to make any real decision.
agree with you but a company cannot base decisions on people with slow internet most people have great internet the world is moving forward so people need to catch up or miss out
I’m curious to see how this plays out. I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. It’s very easy to get bitten by early engineering decisions years down the line. Things like GPU Direct Storage & Hybrid CPUs come along and change the rules for how to extract maximum performance. I’ve been in this position myself. At some point it’s not worth investing more engineering time into the wrong approach. Its a painful situation, but not a massive surprise. I’m excited to see what they do with the thin client.
Your executive summary 3:35 described MSFS 2024 as Careers, Seasons, new Graphics. If it turns out the headline item "Careers" is simply based on the existing ancient FSX missions XML framework then IMHO that's enough to confirm MSFS 2024 is a facelift of MSFS 2020 without any real claim to being a new sim. TBH tweaking the VIrtual FIle System so it can fetch files from the cloud is an absolutely neglible change to the game code and if Asobo try and big that up as if it's (literally) a game changer they're taking the mickey.
Excellent comments and thoughts. Thank you for sharing! I've had similar question, which I posted in an MSFS Forum thread called "How will dueling simulators work?"
My main concern is VR. After rumours that they had disbanded the VR team to work on other things, I'm pretty sure that anyone who currently uses VR in MSFS will not be prepared to upgrade to a sim that doesn't support it
My guess is they’ve assessed the current sim and found that they cannot fix the problems built into it without a code base rewrite, hence the development reset. They’ve stated the existing add-ons will be forwards compatible so I’d expect to see a lot of the current content, both Asobo and third-party, make it across. Be warned: the graphics may be nearly identical to the existing game. Keep this in mind to avoid disappointment. As for new content coming into 2020 after the new game releases, don’t hold your breath. The only thing I’d expect to see would be security updates for the next 5 years. But that isn’t if they do the next thing I’ll predict: move all existing players over to the new title free-of-charge and completely abandon 2020. I say this because I interpret the very limited communication they’ve put out so far as them saying that the 2024 edition is a big iteration on the existing game, kind of like how Fortnite moved to Unreal Engine 5 a little while ago. I know people are ready to get the pitchforks out because Asobo ‘lied’ or whatever nonsense people want to get angry about. It’s best to focus on the benefits here, because it may not cost anyone any extra money to move along to the new version. I’m hoping we get better weather, historic weather, replays, AI traffic, and zero stutters when loading in as you approach a busy airport, etc etc etc. To me, it matters very little because I’m a Game Pass subscriber and it all comes within that monthly fee anyway.
People nowadays are always pitchforking whenever something releases. I have the feeling this happens because they wanna try a game and then provide some random reason to claim their money back or to force studios to do whatever they want which just doesn't work in most regions of the world.
Everytime you leave a menu or click a button in MSFS there is a delay as if every command has to be processed by a middleware. As long as that doesn't change I think that their engine is sort of a crutch. My guess is that in order to meet the extremely short development time they used a lot of old code from previous flight sims and run it in a virtual machine where it can't cause hard crashes. That would also explain why there are so many features that are not needed (camera system comes to mind). That would mean MSFS 2020 was less a new sim than a interface to run old code which they plan to refactor bit by bit.
I wonder sometimes if it is just another way for them to just make more money. Seems like so many things are today. I remember when 2020 was released and Microsoft promised us it was going to be supported for many years
If they bring in "coop cockpit", that would speak for a stronger online focus. Maybe you can even do the new jobs in groups, like fighting forest fires together in a live game... wouldn't that be nice?
I think personally that photogrammetry is one of the updates most likely to persist to 2027 (very late). That is, because i deem it very unlikely that microsoft would put in the effort to change the photogrammetry for the new sim, because change is either expansion or reduction of what is currently available. If they would have expanded their photogrammetry, you would have already heard about it, and reduction is no option. It also involves 3rd parties. Therefore, i suspect that photogrammetry will be updated for quite sometime after the sim updates for 2020 have dried out. The last ones to leave is world updates, even later city updates.
Hopefully you can play off line with internet getting so expensive it’s nice to have the option.I’m ok with this new game since they have said add one will work for both.the main problem will be finding more storage
I’m pretty sure Microsoft/Asobo have committed to a 10 year support plan for 2020, which we are about halfway through now. So I’d expect another 5-6 years (or so) of support for 2020. Eventually they will have to focus more and more of their efforts on future iterations.
the main reasons for 2024 are full DX12 , full CPU / multicore support, and a smaller base game with more online content. It will be a port of the existing game onto a new base engine.
So much of what will happen made me invest in X-Plane 12 just in case MS pull a dirty one, as a backup that I can run fully on my PC. And what happens to all our 2020 addons and DLC that we spent money on? Do we keep buying DLC for 2020?
That still makes no sense, so they are rewriting the entire sim? Does that not take a whole lot more time than rewriting the problems in the current engine and just update the code... Because I'm pretty sure they are copy pasting the hell out of FS2020 and porting it over to FS2024, so why not just update FS2020 instead..
I suspect '24 will be a new code base that requires more modern GPU hardware. This would be better equipped to extrapolate from photogrammetry data, freeing up CPU resources for other purposes. We'll know when the recommended specs are released, but I think we'll be looking at 30 series or equivalent or even 40 series.
Some of the things you question here are already answered. The reason for the 2024 version is the cloud data architecture. If they kept updating 2020 until 2030, then it would have a client larger then 1TB. And people are already complaining now about install size and download times. 2024 will grab more stuff from the cloud, allowing the game client to remain small. There are improved aerodynamics, as well as simulation for hydraulics, pneumatics, and electronics. More advanced avionics packages. Wear and tear, failures simulation. Rope and soft skin simulation. Better non urban enviroments. Seasons. There are plenty improvements that would likely be impossible to implement in 2020.
I follow digital foundry so upon seeing the 2024 trailer I thought - fair enough, that is a leap worth paying full price for. When there are call of duties left and right just from the visual upgrades like tree variety and seasons make it very apparent it's not only missions that's new. Btw it means we all should support adobo and move on to the new title. Because all purchases will carry over and we can only expect better visuals and performance with storage savings so no reason to stick to 2020.
Hi, at about 10:29 into the Video, there's a Black Runway with White Markings adjacent on a Lake surrounded by Mountains, could you give me location of that Airport, if possible the ICAO Airport Code and which Scenery File it belongs to, since I would like to Fly to that location on MSFS, I would really Appreciate the Information. Thanks🙂
In any regards MSFS 2024 will be "just" another iteration, just as XP12 is another iteration after XP11 build on the same engine with improvements, as well as P3Dv5 is build on the engine of P3Dv4 with improvements. Sometimes these improvements are big, sometimes they are not that big. People have to understand that you won't just build/swap a completely new game engine - usually the engine a studio uses will be adapted, improved and expanded but not be written from scratch (that also did not happen in MSFS 2020 - it's still the engine FSX used ;) ). If they would do so they would start another 10 years journey to just create that new engine.
Once ED bring the "world maps" I think we will see them expand gently into commercial aircraft, at that point Microsoft are screwed or at the least have heavy competition - which is great for us Vpilots :)
It's going to absolutely suck on launch. It's taken this long to get 2020 halfway decent and only because of third parties. I'm giving this a body swerve.
It will be a smaller iteration. Nothing (incl. the changes to the code base) that couldn't have been done in MSFS. It's just a scheme to earn more money.
After seeing what modders did to really old games like Falcon BMS and Project Reality, overcoming every code limitation and "impossibility", rivaling today's games and Sims, I call absolute bullocks this "we can't get past the code, we have to launch a new full priced money grabbing sim" narrative. I honestly hope people won't be so dumb as to dump money into that so they'll learn and respect the fan base.
Agreed, there's no such thing as "this can't be done". Only "this is not worth the money to do", a phrase also heard with "management said we better make more money" For real, I wouldn't be surprised if they just had lots of little roadblocks that made further development more time consuming (and expensive) and they proposed it to management and management went "you ain't doing that with the current budget". So they decided to play the community with the whole "this sim will last 10 years" deal.
While I understand people are always skeptical and like to assume everything is a sinister ploy. This jump to 2024 makes perfect sense to me. I had been wondering for sometime prior to the 2024 announcement how on earth were Asobo managing to siftware engineer these new features (which some are quite complex) withoit serious need for copioud amounts of RAM and CPU resources. It is quite clear they have hit a computational resource upper limit. It makes sense considering they are moving to a more client-based application where certain elements are cached on the fly and then dropped. So, it makes sense to rewrite the application and engine to better suit this.
I don't think Microsoft will keep developing big updates for FS2020 since they reached the code limitation. I see coming fixes and some optimization. Which is not so bad for me because the sim is in a good place right now for my needs and the mandatory updates that we receive in my case brake more than what they fix so let it be as it is and just leave the servers running.
Instead of getting lost in an almost infinite number of half-finished aircraft, I would rather see Microsoft and Asobo focus more on study level aircraft. This way, it remains a toy after all.
MSFS 2024 will feature the same code and the same bugs that have been around 2, 3, 4 years… since FSX, guaranteed! Cessna 152, please expedite your climb FL240 😂… MSFS 2020 online services have been terminated, good day!
Means the game will be stored and executed on a remote server and then only the outputs will be processed and projected locally. This could mean a few things and there are a lot more options now than a few years ago with a platform like Stadia, for instance. Remote rendering a game or any piece of software doesn't necessarily mean literally just streaming live interactive video of the game to your computer...it could also just partially render certain things, with only the deeper transactions taking place on the game server. Time will tell, they might even have some new emerging tech by then.
I think call of duty does this in a similar sense but if you look at stuff like the original crackdown 3 promises, the game sucked the idea doesn’t. So for flight sim they could run all the pysics and flight model on your local hardware for best latency and all the world on the cloud
They simply tried to get more casual-beginner simmers from console and pc with a platform based on older version and they ran the limits so my educated guess is 2024 will be more console less realism friendly...with a new price tag. I'd love to be wrong but shame on them if I'm not.
They already said virtually everything existing currently would work in the new sim. They would be murdering third-party enthusiasm if they didn't make backwards compatibility almost guaranteed. I've seen a dev's website saying that their planes would work in both.
"Wait and see" is a bad advice. Better voice the player's concerns than be sorry because the devs didn't get the proper feedbacks. FS 2020 seems to be an online game already, since login in with a Microsoft account is required (there is not many true "offline" game these days). I'm not going to update to 2024 (as you mention it might not be a major leap like 2020 was, and having access to at least one free fighter jet is a must to me (I bought FS 2020 only after the Maverick expansion)), so I hope they keep the online service available till the end of times. Else, that the final 2020 update makes the game fully standalone. Otherwise, I'll remember that I never really owned a copy of the game (if part of the game resides on the servers), and won't trust the devs on any future release.
My whole job is working in a code base that has been rolling forward for over ten years. There's no such thing as "we can't do that in the code base", only "we don't think it's worth the money to do that in the old code base" and "we have contractual obligations related to the old code base that we can skirt by moving to a new one".
If I had to guess, 2024 is going to remove the Legacy FM, which would break some of the aircraft that got ported to 2020 from FSX. Multi-crew and the newer streaming tech probably also breaks a lot of third-party stuff. Easier to just launch a new version than deal with the fallout of that.
I'm in the "chill out and wait" camp. They have already assured us that all market place add-ons will work in the new sim and I am very confident that if a payware mod, not in the MP, does not work, that the developers will make the necessary changes. Long story short, why worry about it, in the end the sim will be better and life will go on...
Yeah, but that's a rational and happy stance to take... and this is the Internet. So no place for that here
🤣@@RJiiFin
My experience… the Addons not in the Market Place will cost.
The "limitation" of FS2020 is that they can't charge me for updates that fix problems.
That's why it needs a whole new installment.
I started watching you for your Elite Dangerous videos - I wish that game was better - and I’m glad to see how the channel has expanded.
Thank you! :)
Same, I too appreciate how you've broadened your content to cover more flight sim in general. You have a fine delivery style and ASMR voice to go with.
Also same - I subscribed after seeing your fantastic exploration videos, but after Frontier unceremoniously threw console users under the bus, I'm purely Flight Sim now.
I feel like I experienced the best years of Elite though, and will always fondly remember Distant Worlds 2.
Elite is the greatest game ever made despite its shortcomings in my opinion.
I just really hope FS2024 comes with a weather radar and adds ground effect, microbursts and windshears to the sim! Even if they opened up the weather API for third party developers it would be nice as we could get to see HiFi develop activesky for MSFS and include weather radar with it.
Yes these are my top requests. Dangerous weather and proper flight mechanics. A weather radar is pointless in MSFS because the weather offers absolutely 0 dangers to any aircraft.
If you don't like downloading new updates because your internet is slow, then things will get significantly worse if more of the game is moved online.
I don't think it will get worse - it will more likely be just the same level. I'd bet they'll create some more robust and option packed "rolling cache" (so you can select what exactly you wanna keep on your SSD like POIs + PG + map tiles + AI aircraft) or the option to download and keep individual packages instead of streaming them.
They surely know that there are still people around with 2 Mbit connections or worse.
@@deltak5457 But the idea seemed to be that they were moving some of the processing online, that won't be cacheable.
@@weswheel4834 what kind of processing should this be?
The GPU needs to load everything which was processed online previously from some temp folder located on the SSD through the RAM/VRAM which is 99% of the load pulled from online and which is currently packed into individual packages (aircraft, POIs, airports - 3D objects and textures in general and some scripts). Everything else is live traffic and weather information which can be handled as of now.
What might be processed online is the look of the ground tiles when it comes to seasons so you may end up flying "all summer" in a region cached ages ago as that color grading could be done server side globally - everything else can be handled by offline modes like it currently is (using traffic and weather presets). They would have nothing to implement here as these modules (also for boat and road traffic) already exist since FSX the latest.
@@deltak5457 It is an interesting point, and I don't think they're saying that you won't need a good GPU (or CPU) any more. But they have said I think that the client will be smaller. It can't just be seasonal processing, because this doesn't happen yet. I don't know tbh, but it did sound like to take advantage of it you would need a decent internet connection.
yea but if you have a gigabit speed, the game actually gets better graphically, on top of running super smooth and awesome. Kinda no excuse for people to have shitty internet connections these days. Move to a blue state if you dont want issues i reckon. Republican run states dont do shit for their infrastructure, but thats not something that cant be overcome.
The devs should not be running into hard technical limits within three years of their super high tech real-scale Earth game engine... that seems alarming to me. I'm hopeful but worried for this new game.
It's not just alarming, it takes away their credibility. They said that 2020 would be the standard for a decade and suddenly all the features they announced went to 2024, said it's a technical issue and called it a day, making us pay for a new game if we want it. I wouldn't trust them anymore is what I'm saying. If they say "this will be the game that lasts 10 years" is pretty much a "trust me bro"
They lied, plain and simple. I'm cautious about the next game.
Depends on what they're doing with it. In part, if I understand correctly, the current sim still has (or had) a fair chunk of decrepit FSX code lurking under the hood for some things. If they're finally getting rid of all that and moving on to an entirely modern engine without that baggage it will be a good step in the right direction. I'm just hoping the new sim will still be playable on what just three years ago was a pretty sturdy rig. It's not just the cost of the new game, it's the cost of potentially a new video card to have it be enjoyable.
I'm sure 2024 is not built from the ground up again, so it could clearly, from a technical standpoint", just be an upgrade to FS2020. I don't buy their excuse. It just costs a lot of money and income has dried up. They need more money to work on it. I've been simming since FS2000, bought the top version of 2020 when it came out, and it has been the single sim I regret buying. It was too expensive for very little benefit over base version. And it never got better. Or barely. I won't be buying into 2024 if it's not a $20 upgrade, tops.
Considering the amount of updates they released it's not alarming to me. If you compare with fdev, in 3 years asobo went further than what fdev could ever do with ED
I'm very excited to see what MSFS 2024 will bring and until then, I'll just keep enjoying MSFS 2020 which already is what I only could dream about when I started enjoying this hobby many, many years ago.
I would like to as well... But as I just play it from time to time, it just isn't for me... Every time I start it after some update, I'll never know how it'll turn out.
Will it run flawlessly and I'll have a blast?
Will it lag like crazy and be unplayable forcing me to to hours of troubleshooting to see if I can fix it?
There's no way to find out!
I'd rather we get more accurate information later rather than a lot of overhyped information now which then leads to disappointment. We just have to be patient and see what it looks like when it comes out. None of my decisions right now are relying on this information, happy to see how it goes.
Yeah all I heard here was code base and speculation nothing more
Welcome to youtube.
Still some basic answers that can be given now.
Moving computation online and customization usually don't go together. I think it will have advantages for casual players but others will become frustrated when they want to change something. An example would be how you can't even set the external Field of View, meaning many people have to manually set zoom to 70 every single flight. I think that aspect of MSFS will not get better but worse.
I wonder how long Microsoft will wait after BeyondATC is released before they “acquire” them for their own ATC shortfalls
One thing I would love to see in the future is volcanic activity. We got many active volcanoes on earth and it would be fun to see some of them in action and also how that would affect the weather and air traffic control. Also, like the volcanic fissure eruptions in Iceland, it would be pretty cool to see the lava fields after the eruptions are over and that they're modelled in after time so we can go back in time to kinda study the evolution of the lava fields in a much interactive way than we've been able to before.
I think the free sim Flight Gear has volcanic eruptions in Iceland. Though I am a beginner and idk, have not tried it, just using to learn SAAB viggen in the moment. 🎉
I'm hoping MSFS 2024 will integrate with some sort of large language model AI platform and provide sim pilots with the ability to actually speak to air traffic control like a normal pilot would. These LLMs have gotten really good at understanding normal human conversation and being able to generate natural replies, and the text to speech engines are also getting to the point where it is hard to even tell that it is not a real person. This seems like a perfect fit for ATC.
There’s actually an add-on coming up in that’s doing just this. It’s called BeyondATC.
Why the fuck are they releasing a new game! Why do i have to buy another one
@@emperornephew6487You need to keep in mind that Microsoft Flight Simulator has always been more of a software platform akin to other Microsoft products like Microsoft Office or Microsoft SQL Server rather than a video game. Microsoft typically introduces a new major version of their software platforms on a cadence of ever 3 to 4 years. It usually coincides with major changes under the hood, and MSFS is no different. The developers over at Asobo are running up against hard limitations in MSFS 2020's simulation engine that they would like to be rid of, and in order to do that, they are going to need to make sweeping changes to it. This justifies a new major version release that will come with a bunch of benefits to users and add-on developers that will make it a better product than its predecessor. If you want to experience all of these new features, then you will need to purchase the new version, as software developers don't work for free and they need to raise revenue to keep everyone at Asobo employed. This is also why game developers release sequels to their successful games (have you ever bought a sequel to a video game you liked?) If you don't want to purchase the new version, then you can continue using MSFS 2020. It is going to keep receiving bug fixes, performance updates, and might even get features that the new version introduces if Asobo can figure out a way to back-port those features into the older version. Support for MSFS 2020 will go on until 2030, and at that point you are going to need to upgrade if you still want to receive updates. Just as an FYI, the day is coming when you will no longer be able to purchase Microsoft software products at all. They are moving everything to monthly subscriptions, and I guarantee that Microsoft Flight Simulator will make that transition as well. Once that is done, as long as you are paying the monthly subscription, then you will always have access to the latest version. Take that as you will.
Its no secret that Microsoft want all their products on a Subscription model, they said as much a few yrs ago, Windows OS Subscription is coming. Might be a good times to get back into Linux.
Technical limits may be mostly related to ensuring compatibility with extensions.
This was historically the main reason to sell a new version: allow to drop support for plugins made for previous major releases.
A plugin communicates with Flight Simulator engine with the limits of something called an Interface: it is the technical way to define a contract that can be extended with new access points, but existing access points can't be removed of modified without dropping support.
For each access point, those contracts can allow synchronous or asynchronous calls: asynchronous calls are better for long-running computations like in-game virtual screens, but adds more management complexity and risk of failures.
Adding compatibility layers to keep support for old contracts adds complexity and reduce overall engine performance.
These are my humble opinions about those technical limits. Feel free to comment on this or telling me if I am wrong or not ;-)
Developers go silent when they are heads down so I do not expect to hear anything till early mid next year since it would likely come out end of next year. So nothing to see here at the moment does not mean we should be worried, it is too early. It means we can talk about aviation simulators and perhaps other products like X-Plane 12 in the meantime.
The difference is, they will phase out support for 2020 eventually, and everyone who wants to fly MSFS and on updated computers will have to upgrade. I have no issue with this, as a 4 year lifespan is actually quite a nice ride that I don't get out of most games that I purchase. I for one will be one of the first to buy 2024 and, I don't care how "significant" an upgrade it will be...I will support Asobo, as they have shown overwhelmind dedication and support of their customers, unlike many developers. They have done more than than most by far.
So I think they actually already told us enough to make sense of most of this. We know there are a lot of things they kept saying they were working on and just didn't happen, and now, as you said, they said they basically decided it would be easier to rewrite core-level code of the system rather than try to update this system. What would that be? I think they've mentioned two things that on their own both A. would require an engine-level revamp, and B. would be worth it.
First, multithreading. I have a VERY beefy computer. (13th gen i7, RTX 4070, 64 gigs of ddr 5 ram, 2 tb. SATA III ssd) and I STILL get stutters when I fly into big cities with ultra graphics, which is nuts. And there's nothing I can do about it, because the bottle neck is that they don't have it set up to use all the cores and threads in my processor. This is normal for normal games, but of course MSFS is not a normal game. In order to program in multi threading that can make full use of modern processors, they need a pretty fundamental overhaul. I fully expect that a lot of the stuttering and crashing and lag will be resolved with MSFS 2024, at least, for those who have the privilege of using high end computers. That alone will be worth it for me.
Second, new photogrammetry. We all know it is going to be "better" but I think a lot of people focused on the "smaller downloads, more cloud" part, and missed a REALLY IMPORTANT tech part Jorg mentioned, which is that they have taught their AI to do better photogrammetry extrapolated from 2d photos. This is huge. Currently photogrammetry requires a series of photographs with parallax in order to extrapolate the spatial relationships. I do this in my work as a museum photographer by mounting two cameras on a long metal pipe so they take pictures of an object from two angles simultaneously. To get photogrammetry of cities you need to have an airplane with a special kind of camera rig fly over territory at relatively low altitudes photographing everything bellow. As you can imagine, this is not always welcome. I have been one of the folks long complaining that the "world" updates are largely Europe + Countries that Speak English, and have longed for better quality scenery for places like China, India, Tanzania, Mexico, or Brazil. The problem is that I can absolutely promise you that China will NEVER allow Microsoft to just fly out and take high quality photogrammetry surveys of anywhere in the PRC. (You might recall that Arma 3 devs were actually detained while trying to take surveys of islands in the Aegean on suspicion of being spies.) And other countries may be more open to photogrammetry surveys but have poor weather. If its raining your big expensive photogrammetry flight will give you nothing. I spend a lot of time doing research in Nepal, and I would love to see that better rendered in the flight sim, but it's a perfect storm of a government with a lot of red tape, a long highly militarized border with China, and weather that ranges from awful to dangerous for 10 months out of the year.
The implementation of the new photogrammetry technology they say they've got would be an absolute game changer, but I can easily imagine that it would also take a lot of work on the code level to get it to integrate properly. As anyone in Canada may have noticed, the relationship between photogrammetry and the sim engine is already pretty tenuous and that is just dealing with the conventional stuff.
All in all, if there is nothing more than those two changes, I still think the next version of the sim will be revolutionary.
I think 2024 will be an iterative update so far as how the SIM looks and plays, but it's clear that it will be far more focused on things like career modes, rescue missions and the like. I use Neofly and APL2, so I'm interested to see what they bring to the table to compete with external stuff like that.
If they can launch 2024 with proper multi threading support while still supporting external mods I'll happily pay for it without caring too much about what else they add.
“Flight simulators” and especially the MS flight simulator series, are notoriously difficult to optimize for multi-core utilization, because they are so math/computation intensive! The more realistic they are, the more impossible it becomes to fully implement this! The more “game-y” the easier it becomes!
That is exactly why CPU speed is the single most important factor in playing the sim smoothly and at great frame rates (and, to a certain extent, as we’re seeing now with the new AMD processors like the Ryzen 7800X3D, big L3 cache also plays a fairly important part).
That said, they can always do some more optimization to make some tangible improvements, because every little bit helps! For example, in certain demanding situations, if they can just go from, say low 20s FPS to low 30s FPS, as well as eliminate or seriously reduce stutters, would be a huge improvement in the enjoyment of the sim!
What I’m basically saying, is they will never be able to achieve the kind of “very high” multi-core utilization, as can be done with other demanding programs or even games!
@@747-pilot I don’t think that’s correct at all. while there will always be a need for a fast main single core, dcs pulled it off multithreading for both the render thread and other computational tasks. Mutlithreading is also very important for vr since there are double the frame demand. Multithreading will be huge if done right
Lets wait till 2024. Why worry, speculate and make early judgements? Let's enjoy our current sim.
I've greatly enjoyed 2020. But I'm fine with a new Sim if it's greatly improved. I mostly fly vfr sight seeing and would love a huge graphical upgrade for certain terrain.
I mainly use MSFS for sight seeing too, like flying near my hometown & other familiar places that I know of.
@@pwcorgi2000 I actually have a pilots license (there’s a video of me doing a takeoff on my channel), but I just fly single-engine aircraft and don’t know how to fly jets. I also use flight sims for primarily sight-seeing as well. I don’t have the patience to sit there for hours going through the procedures like some RUclipsrs lol.
I know I'm a weirdo, but I would love at some point to see a company like Asobo leverage the vast info in OpenStreetMap to procedurally generate an open Whole World racing/driving sim. I would love to drive some of the roads you see flying around in the sim. The ground buildings wouldn't have to be 100% accurate, just representative. A decent physics engine and effort put in to off-road activities as well could be a massive game.
There are several large-scale trucking simulations that could use this sort of technology as well.
At this point it is a struggle to provide a map that at least looks OK when flying a couple of hundred meters above surface.
Most of us would like a drivng/trucking/train sim like that, but it will not happen for a very-very long time, if ever.
@optimalkfrt There is a Google Maps plug in for Unreal Engine 5 that looks great. We aren't too far off.
@@optimalkfrt Not so far I think as that. The visual rendering needs on the ground for a road vehicle would be much different. Flight sims engines needs to be able to render detail at any altitude at distances far greater than a ground-based sim would, and handle it at vehicle speeds far beyond land ones as well. Creating a functional global road network would be the challenge. That could be done in stages by only including the main routes to begin with.
I know some of the ATS fans get very snippy, if you ask for free roam or even drive a car. Some of them say 'This is a semi-truck sim. Play GTA or Forza Horizon if you want to do that.' This really gripes me. Adding free roam / drive a car ability doesn't hurt anything. Actually it helps ATS get more money for dev purposes.
Very valid points, Ant. Great video as always 🙂 Love from Norway 👍
There is perhaps the possibility of Microsoft using the 2020 format of world mesh and scenery thus keeping it compatible with 2024, and using the file header like xplane does for new functions within the scenery. The code base I think will be get rid of all the old underlying ESP code
Wish they would make a new combat flight simulator
Play dcs
@@MrAlphaBee I play IL2. The DCS WW2 content doesn't inspire
@@Lakedistrictrider yes i completely agree their ww2 content is lacking, hopefully it changes in the near future. IL2 is awesome too
With that, I wish they would make MSFS combined with full ops, RW battles like live traffic, live battle space. Combine it, just like now in real world, we just won’t fly over dangerous situations.
I wish the crashes were realistically possible, crash and burns.
Based on my 2020 MS Flt Sim, Australian trees are everywhere on the end of runways. Also Bing crap maps. I've ben a pilot since 1957, and having had MS X, a logical start-up and I expected better.
They delivered a lot of what was promised in 2020. But not everything they promised. These things are now promised in 2024.
I say maybe offer owners of 2020 at least a minor discount for 2024.
I don't see them doing this though. But I also don't see myself paying full price for 2024 either.
It should be $100
There's no reason for them to offer a discount.
@@tubeloobs They are taking features they said would be in 2020 and putting them into 2024.
At the very least that is a bait and switch.
@@omg-vert wrong. These are features that were requested by the community. They were never promised. They tried to get them into 2020 then realized massive rewrites of the architecture would be required to make them work. This amount of work made releasing a new version make sense. New versions require new purchases, plain and simple.
@@tubeloobs Perhaps I misunderstood the part @:20 where he said Much anticipated features are being moved from 2020 to 2024. I had the audio on in the background and didn't see it was listed under "WISHLIST".
If that's the case then I'm wrong.
I'm like you . . . I am interested to see what 2024 offers, but honestly . . . I'm pretty happy RIGHT NOW, with what I've got. Getting a new flight simulator is kind of like getting a new computer. Sure, it's nice and probably runs much better, and so on. But there is also that horrible "settling in" time - of getting adjusted to the new game, getting settings just right, learning a new style of using it. It's a bit of a pain, even if it's worth it.
I'm almost exclusively flying 2020 with the A2A Comanche 250, and I really can't think of anything I don't like. So I look forward to seeing what the new game looks like, but I'll probably stick with what I have for quite some time. (Also, my old laptop probably won't run the new game, and I just don't have the income to buy a new one. Sad.)
Youre playing the 2020 one still? What can you do there
@@moondiegordr My flying is very tame. I fly point to point, and just enjoy the scenery and the realistic flight model, along with the challenge of IFR navigation. If you don't have it, you should find out about the A2A Comanche. It has some additional features that run outside the sim, which really seems to add a more realistic feel to flying. (My own real world experience includes some GA flying and time in Naval aviation.)
@@moondiegordr I'm similar to Black Beard, I use it for chilling out flights and things like that. I pick a start point, pick a direction, then I fly until I've had enough. It's not for everyone but it does suit me.
@@moondiegordr lol you don't know the flight sim audience. We can use the same simulator for a decade if allowed and able. I use it to practice IFR procedures and still for some VFR fun. As @blackbeardsghost6588 said, it's like switching to a whole new PC when you change sims. I have thousands in panels and hardware, radio stack, touchscreen with Air Manager...so when a new sim comes out it's hours upon hours of setup. Hell...just setting up a new aircraft with the controls and plugins to drive the hardware panels takes an hour to map all of the sim events, Lvars....
The Sim v Casual Flyer market is vast and their expectations of features is worlds apart. I care zero for any type of career modes or missions, but others will only play with those types of features available
@@moondiegordr Dozens of different aviation activities out of 40,000 airports in infinite weather and time of day combinations and in hundreds of aircraft types.
Just for starters.
Just hope the clouds don't look like sooty sponges.
And using more than 4 threads will be a bonus 😂
5:33 wtf ? The updated code being online make it worse as you have to get it at every launch instead of when the update is pushed… seems like a java fiasco all over again…
It's ads. It's about presenting you micro-targeted Advertising, every time you launch the sim (and it connects to the cloud). You can avoid those ads for a monthly fee, of course.
It's always about monetization (recurring fees, or ad revenue), and of course your larger usage-pattern data...that's worth some coin, too.
@@Thuddster We OK with making up shit now?
@@CpnGoose A prediction. We'll see how it pans-out over the next few years.
Prediction ? Targeted ads are as old as web browsers…
Tracking cookies…
You are one of these absolute loonies that discover life decades after everyone else and feel empowered by the word of god ?
Analytics, metrics, all can be part of the codebase from day 0 no need for downloadable code on launch. Especially for the steam version.
With photogrametry the sim is constantly downloading gigabytes of data at every flight and sending back whatever info it wants. Go back to your soapbox you are bringing jacksh1t to the conversation.
Am an optimist! MSFS 2020 was spectacular and one of my favourite games which is why I am confident that the next entry will be just as good or better.
MSFS2020 had some key problems for a "sim" that I hope are fixed in FS2024. The inability to set weather limits to IFR standards easily (such as 200 overcase and 1800 rvr) for example are a problem for something labeling itself as a flight sim IMO. If they can resolve the weather issues, some night lighting that alone would be worth the upgrade to me. I hope at launch of 2024 the multiplayer flight decks stuff is there (allowing players to work as pilot/copilot or crew.) Crew abilities would be a gamechanger compared to all the other sims out now, and I think bring in a LOT more people. I'm surprised that Seasons was moved to 2024 - but if this was a limitation perhaps it was something to do with the install size getting too big with so many textures and models where the next version can possibly change this. Perhaps a rewrite will also allow them to move away from the single world thread type of game engine that its been using and move to what more modern game engines use with the asynchronous multi core world thread ideas. If this is the case we could see some much more powerful thing come about form the sim as we are currently very limited by this.
My main worry is most of thr sim data being online,my connection speed is at best 77 Mb p/s but as the last update proved that figure is entirely theoretical.I was seeing speeds as low as 2Mb p/s and it stuck on the last bit of decompression causing me to do a reset which is the same as a reinstall.That took from four n the afternoon to four the following morning and I still had to reinstall a load of aircraft and all world updates.With that amount of data relying on the cloud for transmission to our PC's I'm not exactly brimming with confidence.I will wait to see how early users get on....................................
They said existing FS2020 addons will work in FS2024. Combine that with a better engine with better multithreading support. What's the problem?
off topic here, but can anyone tell me where is this 9:03 location? Many thanks in advance!
It's this airport: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Dsafj%C3%B6r%C3%B0ur_Airport
Commenting so that I can see the answer (if anyone answers). Beautiful place.
@@ObsidianAnt Thanks man! I’m a new pilot in flight sim and loving it so far. Thanks for giving us these content.
I think the sole reason for MSFS 2024 is that MSFS 2020 isn't selling as good as it was. Most people into flight sim will have already bought the game. They can't keep working on updates if they have no cash at hand. It will probably just feel like a big update to the current game and the trailer has probably already shown most of it
Thank you for the viewpoint. I think you are spot on, and how can they possibly continue with another version when they cannot seem to correct the one they have. Again thanks for the informative videos and appreciate your views on this.
In addition to waiting for MS2024 to release instead of getting MS2020, I’ll probably wait to buy a new PC as well. I want to be able to play in high resolution, so I’d presumably need a later model PC.
I see no downsides. The sim gets a huge update and I get to pay to keep its development going. Any other community would be hyped to pay $60 every 4 years for more core engine updates.
I’m not sure what the major fuss is, so.
def something that needs some fixing is the missing patches of sattelite imagery and the clouds on scenery but, its hard to get a full image of everything
Asobo will become the NEW Dovetail Games. Release a new version each yr to try & get you to buy & ignore the previous versions going forward. All they care about is you giving them money.
I don't have a small internet speed but I still wait a long time for airports to download from the marketplace. I've done all the tweaks to the system I found online and still no good.
Sounds like a bunch of mission scenarios mixed in with some game upgrades. MSFS2020 has the best G1000 simulation out of the box. Works very realistically with my G1000 hardware so I’m sticking with it.
I think that the next FSS2024 will have an improved engine that will have multi threading enhancements, updated bing maps and all world updates of 2020 will be native in 2024. The main addition will be activities, jobs.
It’s a way to fund the next additions to the game (a dlc of new content sold as brand new game)
I hope your right because that's one piece of hardware that can be better utilized instead of buying more expensive graphics cards ($1500 to $2000😢)
I recently got a series S console and MSFS is available on that now . Is this based on 2020 MSFS ?
Is the new 2024 version a whole new verion or upgradable add on ?
Im not sure if I should wait till next year to get it or just get the current version with all the available DLC so far to date ?
They figured out that they need a monthly subscription model to sustain the server cost. That's what 2024 will be, 2020 support will, no matter what they say now, end with 2024 releasing. My 5 cent.
Regardless of the advancements of MSFS is the owner will own nothing but the ability to fly by having an required account...won't independently own the flight program. Why I will stick with XP!
My first thoughts are that moving more of the simulator content to the cloud is likely to be a bad thing for people with slow connections, rather than good. Currently, there's a HUGE amount of data that you need to get once. And then it's run from your machine and some data is then streamed on top of that. If the majority is streamed, it means it will be downloaded all the time you're flying. If your connection is slow you might well end up with photogrammetry, textures and maybe even mesh data streamed in and a dynamically changing view of the world as you fly.
I think I'd really like to see more detail about this before assuming it's good for everyone. Things like sim updates, I'm not sure how much they can do on the cloud unless they stream the whole thing like stadia etc (which is definitely a bad thing for people with slow connections). I don't think they could do that without the game being a subscription. So I'd rule that out. Sim updates are usually to the base code, then the textures, panels, models for aircraft/airports etc as well as code for running systems (like glass cockpits etc). I don't see how these can be reliably streamed, except for some kind of "first use caching".
As for sim updates in 2020/2024. I would assume some crossover time of a year or two max after 2024 release. But beyond that I'd expect nothing except basic updates/bugfixes in 2020 after that. They will most certainly not support two products fully. Since they're implying the engine is the problem, they would mostly need to double effort a lot of the sim updates and probably have some validation of world updates. That's time they won't want to spend on what will quickly become a "legacy product".
I'm very much in a "wait and see" mode for this overall. There's far too many questions beyond even these to make any real decision.
agree with you but a company cannot base decisions on people with slow internet most people have great internet the world is moving forward so people need to catch up or miss out
The inability to update cities and airports in South Korea is a weird limitation for MSFS2020 to have.
I share these concerns. They seem to be going out of their way to be non-transparent with the community, including the state of VR.
The sim is a year away.....
I'm worried that Asobo might end up breaking FS2020 with a patch and then discontinue support ;0
Is the scenery at 04:16 payware? And where is it? Looks beautiful.
They’re butting up against the profit margins of 2020 so they need to release a “newer” version bolster sales numbers.
Will this still be like the 2020 and not like a mission based sim?
I’m curious to see how this plays out.
I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. It’s very easy to get bitten by early engineering decisions years down the line. Things like GPU Direct Storage & Hybrid CPUs come along and change the rules for how to extract maximum performance.
I’ve been in this position myself. At some point it’s not worth investing more engineering time into the wrong approach. Its a painful situation, but not a massive surprise.
I’m excited to see what they do with the thin client.
Your executive summary 3:35 described MSFS 2024 as Careers, Seasons, new Graphics. If it turns out the headline item "Careers" is simply based on the existing ancient FSX missions XML framework then IMHO that's enough to confirm MSFS 2024 is a facelift of MSFS 2020 without any real claim to being a new sim. TBH tweaking the VIrtual FIle System so it can fetch files from the cloud is an absolutely neglible change to the game code and if Asobo try and big that up as if it's (literally) a game changer they're taking the mickey.
Raised some good discussion points here. Still excited to see what comes... Will be a long wait.
Excellent comments and thoughts. Thank you for sharing! I've had similar question, which I posted in an MSFS Forum thread called "How will dueling simulators work?"
My main concern is VR. After rumours that they had disbanded the VR team to work on other things, I'm pretty sure that anyone who currently uses VR in MSFS will not be prepared to upgrade to a sim that doesn't support it
you just tick the "Use VR" box when compiling it's that easy :)
They've gone from being quite transparent to vague uncertainty. Not good for anyone who is involved in this, including Microsoft actually.
My guess is they’ve assessed the current sim and found that they cannot fix the problems built into it without a code base rewrite, hence the development reset. They’ve stated the existing add-ons will be forwards compatible so I’d expect to see a lot of the current content, both Asobo and third-party, make it across. Be warned: the graphics may be nearly identical to the existing game. Keep this in mind to avoid disappointment.
As for new content coming into 2020 after the new game releases, don’t hold your breath. The only thing I’d expect to see would be security updates for the next 5 years.
But that isn’t if they do the next thing I’ll predict: move all existing players over to the new title free-of-charge and completely abandon 2020. I say this because I interpret the very limited communication they’ve put out so far as them saying that the 2024 edition is a big iteration on the existing game, kind of like how Fortnite moved to Unreal Engine 5 a little while ago.
I know people are ready to get the pitchforks out because Asobo ‘lied’ or whatever nonsense people want to get angry about. It’s best to focus on the benefits here, because it may not cost anyone any extra money to move along to the new version. I’m hoping we get better weather, historic weather, replays, AI traffic, and zero stutters when loading in as you approach a busy airport, etc etc etc. To me, it matters very little because I’m a Game Pass subscriber and it all comes within that monthly fee anyway.
People nowadays are always pitchforking whenever something releases. I have the feeling this happens because they wanna try a game and then provide some random reason to claim their money back or to force studios to do whatever they want which just doesn't work in most regions of the world.
Everytime you leave a menu or click a button in MSFS there is a delay as if every command has to be processed by a middleware. As long as that doesn't change I think that their engine is sort of a crutch. My guess is that in order to meet the extremely short development time they used a lot of old code from previous flight sims and run it in a virtual machine where it can't cause hard crashes. That would also explain why there are so many features that are not needed (camera system comes to mind). That would mean MSFS 2020 was less a new sim than a interface to run old code which they plan to refactor bit by bit.
I wonder sometimes if it is just another way for them to just make more money. Seems like so many things are today. I remember when 2020 was released and Microsoft promised us it was going to be supported for many years
If they bring in "coop cockpit", that would speak for a stronger online focus.
Maybe you can even do the new jobs in groups, like fighting forest fires together in a live game... wouldn't that be nice?
What about all the aircraft purchased to MSFS 2020 , Can we may able to transfer them?
I think personally that photogrammetry is one of the updates most likely to persist to 2027 (very late). That is, because i deem it very unlikely that microsoft would put in the effort to change the photogrammetry for the new sim, because change is either expansion or reduction of what is currently available. If they would have expanded their photogrammetry, you would have already heard about it, and reduction is no option. It also involves 3rd parties. Therefore, i suspect that photogrammetry will be updated for quite sometime after the sim updates for 2020 have dried out. The last ones to leave is world updates, even later city updates.
Hopefully you can play off line with internet getting so expensive it’s nice to have the option.I’m ok with this new game since they have said add one will work for both.the main problem will be finding more storage
I’m pretty sure Microsoft/Asobo have committed to a 10 year support plan for 2020, which we are about halfway through now. So I’d expect another 5-6 years (or so) of support for 2020. Eventually they will have to focus more and more of their efforts on future iterations.
They're moving it to a subscription model. Everyone will pay per month imo
the main reasons for 2024 are full DX12 , full CPU / multicore support, and a smaller base game with more online content. It will be a port of the existing game onto a new base engine.
So much of what will happen made me invest in X-Plane 12 just in case MS pull a dirty one, as a backup that I can run fully on my PC. And what happens to all our 2020 addons and DLC that we spent money on? Do we keep buying DLC for 2020?
That still makes no sense, so they are rewriting the entire sim?
Does that not take a whole lot more time than rewriting the problems in the current engine and just update the code...
Because I'm pretty sure they are copy pasting the hell out of FS2020 and porting it over to FS2024, so why not just update FS2020 instead..
I Pray that we can use this New Flight sim 2024 in OFFLINE mode. 🙏
Considering the massive back-end support that is required it is likely that MSFS 2024 with be a subscription service.
I suspect '24 will be a new code base that requires more modern GPU hardware. This would be better equipped to extrapolate from photogrammetry data, freeing up CPU resources for other purposes. We'll know when the recommended specs are released, but I think we'll be looking at 30 series or equivalent or even 40 series.
Some of the things you question here are already answered.
The reason for the 2024 version is the cloud data architecture.
If they kept updating 2020 until 2030, then it would have a client larger then 1TB. And people are already complaining now about install size and download times.
2024 will grab more stuff from the cloud, allowing the game client to remain small.
There are improved aerodynamics, as well as simulation for hydraulics, pneumatics, and electronics.
More advanced avionics packages.
Wear and tear, failures simulation.
Rope and soft skin simulation.
Better non urban enviroments.
Seasons.
There are plenty improvements that would likely be impossible to implement in 2020.
Mark, on a side note, have you been actively involved in VR flying and if so, has it been a game changer for you?
Tbh I want Microsoft to partner with a combat sim studio to bring full fidelity combat into FS. Would be the first really strong competitor to DCS.
Will it not get stuck on update in 2024..............
I follow digital foundry so upon seeing the 2024 trailer I thought - fair enough, that is a leap worth paying full price for. When there are call of duties left and right just from the visual upgrades like tree variety and seasons make it very apparent it's not only missions that's new. Btw it means we all should support adobo and move on to the new title. Because all purchases will carry over and we can only expect better visuals and performance with storage savings so no reason to stick to 2020.
Hi, at about 10:29 into the Video, there's a Black Runway with White Markings adjacent on a Lake surrounded by Mountains, could you give me location of that Airport, if possible the ICAO Airport Code and which Scenery File it belongs to, since I would like to Fly to that location on MSFS, I would really Appreciate the Information. Thanks🙂
In any regards MSFS 2024 will be "just" another iteration, just as XP12 is another iteration after XP11 build on the same engine with improvements, as well as P3Dv5 is build on the engine of P3Dv4 with improvements. Sometimes these improvements are big, sometimes they are not that big.
People have to understand that you won't just build/swap a completely new game engine - usually the engine a studio uses will be adapted, improved and expanded but not be written from scratch (that also did not happen in MSFS 2020 - it's still the engine FSX used ;) ). If they would do so they would start another 10
years journey to just create that new engine.
Once ED bring the "world maps" I think we will see them expand gently into commercial aircraft, at that point Microsoft are screwed or at the least have heavy competition - which is great for us Vpilots :)
I'm just enjoying what we have today.
They should give us a story mode
It's going to absolutely suck on launch. It's taken this long to get 2020 halfway decent and only because of third parties. I'm giving this a body swerve.
It will be a smaller iteration. Nothing (incl. the changes to the code base) that couldn't have been done in MSFS. It's just a scheme to earn more money.
After seeing what modders did to really old games like Falcon BMS and Project Reality, overcoming every code limitation and "impossibility", rivaling today's games and Sims, I call absolute bullocks this "we can't get past the code, we have to launch a new full priced money grabbing sim" narrative.
I honestly hope people won't be so dumb as to dump money into that so they'll learn and respect the fan base.
That's kinda how capitalism works. They're professional developers, not your afternoon modders.
@@after_midnight9592Capitalism doesn't work without customers.
Oh wow! You guys work at Asobo?
Agreed, there's no such thing as "this can't be done". Only "this is not worth the money to do", a phrase also heard with "management said we better make more money"
For real, I wouldn't be surprised if they just had lots of little roadblocks that made further development more time consuming (and expensive) and they proposed it to management and management went "you ain't doing that with the current budget". So they decided to play the community with the whole "this sim will last 10 years" deal.
I used to have massive issues with CTDs. I got rid of AI traffic about 9 months ago and I haven't had a single crash since.
Are you using to many mods.? Mods are the dead for a flightsim. I now from fsx. I dont use mods in fs2020 and have no problems with ctd.🤷🏼♂️
I wonder if the individual career missions will be on custom separate maps instead of the full world. I hope not.
Jorg confirmed that 2020 and 2024 will get world updates at the same time
Hopefully will finally be able to save flights and flight plans.
While I understand people are always skeptical and like to assume everything is a sinister ploy.
This jump to 2024 makes perfect sense to me. I had been wondering for sometime prior to the 2024 announcement how on earth were Asobo managing to siftware engineer these new features (which some are quite complex) withoit serious need for copioud amounts of RAM and CPU resources.
It is quite clear they have hit a computational resource upper limit. It makes sense considering they are moving to a more client-based application where certain elements are cached on the fly and then dropped.
So, it makes sense to rewrite the application and engine to better suit this.
I don't think Microsoft will keep developing big updates for FS2020 since they reached the code limitation. I see coming fixes and some optimization. Which is not so bad for me because the sim is in a good place right now for my needs and the mandatory updates that we receive in my case brake more than what they fix so let it be as it is and just leave the servers running.
as i said they must give us all 2020 players a free upgrade or a fat discount.
@@nemesisone8927 Why?
Instead of getting lost in an almost infinite number of half-finished aircraft, I would rather see Microsoft and Asobo focus more on study level aircraft.
This way, it remains a toy after all.
MSFS 2024 will feature the same code and the same bugs that have been around 2, 3, 4 years… since FSX, guaranteed!
Cessna 152, please expedite your climb FL240 😂… MSFS 2020 online services have been terminated, good day!
What does having the codebase in the cloud even mean?
Means the game will be stored and executed on a remote server and then only the outputs will be processed and projected locally. This could mean a few things and there are a lot more options now than a few years ago with a platform like Stadia, for instance. Remote rendering a game or any piece of software doesn't necessarily mean literally just streaming live interactive video of the game to your computer...it could also just partially render certain things, with only the deeper transactions taking place on the game server. Time will tell, they might even have some new emerging tech by then.
I think call of duty does this in a similar sense but if you look at stuff like the original crackdown 3 promises, the game sucked the idea doesn’t.
So for flight sim they could run all the pysics and flight model on your local hardware for best latency and all the world on the cloud
They simply tried to get more casual-beginner simmers from console and pc with a platform based on older version and they ran the limits so my educated guess is 2024 will be more console less realism friendly...with a new price tag. I'd love to be wrong but shame on them if I'm not.
The biggest concern would be forward compatibility of purchased content…..that would be killer if we had to repurchase content again.
They already said virtually everything existing currently would work in the new sim. They would be murdering third-party enthusiasm if they didn't make backwards compatibility almost guaranteed. I've seen a dev's website saying that their planes would work in both.
"Wait and see" is a bad advice. Better voice the player's concerns than be sorry because the devs didn't get the proper feedbacks. FS 2020 seems to be an online game already, since login in with a Microsoft account is required (there is not many true "offline" game these days). I'm not going to update to 2024 (as you mention it might not be a major leap like 2020 was, and having access to at least one free fighter jet is a must to me (I bought FS 2020 only after the Maverick expansion)), so I hope they keep the online service available till the end of times. Else, that the final 2020 update makes the game fully standalone. Otherwise, I'll remember that I never really owned a copy of the game (if part of the game resides on the servers), and won't trust the devs on any future release.
Surelly hope that will have vr support, as 2020 had
They've already confirmed VR support