Biohacking The Oral Microbiome: Test #2
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2022
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Papers referenced in the video:
Nitrate as a potential prebiotic for the oral microbiome
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32732...
The Importance of Nitrate Reduction for Oral Health
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35196...
Nitrate and nitrite content of vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, dairy products, meats and processed meats
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Nitrate in vegetables Scientific Opinion of the Panel on Contaminants in the Food chain
efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...
Interconnections Between the Oral and Gut Microbiomes: Reversal of Microbial Dysbiosis and the Balance Between Systemic Health and Disease
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33652...
Efficacy of β-caryophyllene for periodontal disease related factors
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30826...
Synergistic effect between clove oil and its major compounds and antibiotics against oral bacteria
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21397... 
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Wow, even hacking this area. Amazing broad approach to longevity.
Lungs, BP, and brain story in the next video, so going above and beyond blood biomarkers!
My passion for longevity grows with every video you make. Absolutely thrilled to know there’s content coming about brain!
I've always used sodium bicarbonate
as a alkaline mouthwash,
Incredibly useful. I could not find much using google on these topics.
Great video
Thanks John!
I would have said thatEven though you have high nitrate in the diet, it still depends on the bacterial getting sufficient access while the food in the mouth, which could mean chewing slower, drinking water to support salivary secretion, etc but I'm surprised by these results, potassium nitrate mouthwash should have done the trick....but maybe if some more of the bad ones you mention are reduced... well that would be very interesting!
cant wait for the next update
Thanks Bryan!
This really is fascinating! It will take a lot more testing, but I would think that dietary composition would be a major driver of oral microbiome composition. Maybe in a few years that can be meaningfully evaluated. Thanks again for sharing this adventure :)
Awesome video! Hopefully clove oil reduce the bacteria known to cause lupus. I was diagnosed with lupus at a young age but later doctors didn’t know if I had this condition or not. I will try the salivary test
Hey Tommy, I don't have a plan for that yet. I'm hoping that clove oil has some collateral damage on lupus-related bacteria, we'll see in the next test.
Thx for the info on glove oil, all this auto immune problems are difficult. Hope you can figure it out . I know we all need to cut out the processed foods, seed oils and excessive carbs and hopefully this new info will help us.
Hi Michael - when brushing do you use a store bought paste? Have read this can big impact on oral bacteria with some reports fluoride having negative effect on benefits related to nitrates for endurance. Maybe you cover this in other video. Thanks for any update here?
Hi michael, I haven't covered this in other videos-I don't know which toothpaste would be best, as there aren't any RCTs that I know of, but it's obviously a potential factor, as you mentioned.
I just got my most recent oral microbiome test results back, and they're worse than last time-changing the toothpaste isn't the next step, but it could be on the list at some point.
Im sturggling with MRSA overgrowth in nose and throat. Any recommendationa?
I want to see what DMSO @ 50% plus just a dusting of rapamycin will do.
I wonder if the work of the late Weston Price would be helpful...he talked about the diet changing the integrity of the saliva...
Hello, thank you for the informative video. I just have one question: How to pick a mouthwash that only kills the bad oral bacteria and doesn't harm the good bacteria while keeping the gums healthy? I'm confused
The only way to know would be testing one's oral microbiome, and often. Everything else is a guess.
What is the variance in populations of oral bacteria from week to week with no change in treatment? N=1 with a small change in outcomes is an observation - but cannot be assumed to be a generalization effect in any direction.
Yes, there is always variability form test-to-test. More testing can help get closer to the truth-test #3 is coming soon.
Very interesting!
Some feedback:
1. Why is your treatment just a mouthwash? You could get a dental cleaning more frequently eg every 3 months, floss, buy a waterpik, check your brushing technique with a dentist, etc. There may well be a lot more. I learned these from studying people who treat heart disease.
2. Two of the ingredients in your mouthwash attack Candida: Xylitol and Peppermint. Candida might be a good place to consider as a root cause for some oral health issues.
Thanks Adrian. More frequent cleanings would be a temporary fix, without addressing long-term oral microbiome composition. In contrast, the daily use of the mouthwash as a prebiotic should enable growth of "good" bacteria, while limiting the potentially pathogenic ones.
Bristle uses whole genome sequencing, which means that they have data beyond bacteria, including oral fungi, viruses, etc. At some point, I hope they make that data available, to see if oral Candida levels ares suppressed as a result of the mouthwash (and potentially via diet, too).
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thanks, I understand your approach now.
IMHO conditions like heart disease and lupus have to be prevented at any cost, so I think this goes further than just adjusting the oral microbiome.
btw, if you ran a private forum, eg FB or reddit, a bunch of us could work on these things together and collaborate results to find out what works. It could be a paid program.
@@adrianbye830 I definitely agree. I like the private group approach-with the goal of optimizing biomarkers, health, and potentially, longevity, I do some of that on Patreon (Tier 4), but if there's a weakness to that approach, just eliminating certain bacteria from the oral (or any) microbiome may not do anything.
Although a given bacterium may be linked with adverse health in published studies, whether that's true in all people would be debatable. Lot's of factors would probably increase risk-having the bacterium, plus poor diet, smoking, etc. That said, i err on the side minimize risk by eliminating the microbes that are known bad actors in other studies.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I still have many basic targets to reach (getting good at fasting, some weight loss, etc), so I might not be ready for an advanced program with you yet. But I love what you're doing with clear metrics and data for improving health and will continue trying to understand your approach.
Ben Patrick with Knee Ability Zero is a good paid knee rehabilitation program which could be a model to consider. He sells a popular book which covers the basics, and then a monthly $50/program with extra support. I think he has a lot of customers.
What is your opinion of regular mouthwash ie Listerine?
Hi Michael! I am 13 and want to discover more about longevity, where would you recommend starting? Also, do you fast much? Thanks.
Hi George, my YT channel is a gold mine for that! I'd start with my oldest videos and work forward.
Alkalized (or alkalyzed)
How often are you using the mouth wash every morning and night? Also do you recommend using this mouth wash on invisiline braces?
3-5x/day, including after meals. There's nothing in the mouthwash that would damage braces, unless invisaline has chemicals in it that might react with it.
You should mention how many mouthwash were done per day and the way it was done. I went to a step further, considering the microbiome should be treated not just in the mouth but all the way to the gut. Also it s half of the solution, ie create a new strong gut. Just my .2 cents. 😊 excellent vid.
Thanks Zakhariah K, you're right, I didn't indicate that info in the video, and sorry about that! I used it 3-5x/day. It's been a while since I tested my gut microbiome, but that may be on the list again sooner, rather than later.
I'm wondering if chewing various herbs in the mint family would help.
Possibly, good idea, thanks
when is test number 3 coming out ?
Test #3 is out!
ruclips.net/video/4tsVuGGOk64/видео.html
I have the data for Test #4, but I want to figure out the next step before making that video.
What toothpaste do you use? I've been DIY (coconut oil, baking soda, salt, clove oil, tea tree oil) for years without considering oral-biome until now. Regarding skin-biome, what body wash/shampoo do you use?
I also use clove oil + white vinegar spray against dust mite and bedroom-related bugs based on studies that clove oil is among the most effective.
I've been using "Spotlight Oral Care Toothpaste | 100ml/3.4fl oz (Whitening)", but I like the homemade toothpaste idea. Is it a pre-made mix, or you make it daily?
For soap, I use "NaturesPlus Natural Beauty Cleansing Bar", as it's one of the rare cleansers that has a pH close to skin pH, 5.0. I don't use shampoo-there's usually only stubble on my head (at worst)!
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 It's an heavily salted pre-made mix, which lasts months if not a year.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Does it matter if the soap is in solid or liquid form? I'm used to the latter.
In my area I only found PH 5.5 products, are they acceptable?
@@user-mq9ml9jg5v Solid or liquid probably doesn't matter. A pH of 5 to 5.5 which is close to skin pH is probably the most important factor, as acidification allows for the colonization of commensals while limiting the colonization of pathobionts.
Could the diet be supplemented with potassium nitrate?
I'm already on a high nitrate (and potassium diet), so that wouldn't benefit me. Alternatively, if the goal is nitrate in the mouth, the best bet would be in the mouthwash.
seems it might be the Xylitol killing both good and bad backteria...
Definitely possible-I've taken it out for Test #5...
Erythritol looks like it might be something to look out - seems to outperform xylitol in some studies.
Have you looked into chewing gums at all for this (maybe I missed it)? I imagine those have a world of potential here.
I think I looked into erythritol to reduce the levels of 2 oral bacteria that are too high, but I don’t remember if there were any studies. In contrast there were studies for clove oil, so I went with that.
what about the L citruline to convert the Nitrates?
That's a different issue-with an increase in oral nitrate, there should've been an increase for nitrate-reducing bacteria. That there weren't, it suggests they're already as high as can be in my mouth
how about cayenne pepper or propolis for mouth washes? 🤔
Got some published data that they kill AD-related bacteria, without affecting anything else?
Hi Thx for sharing all of this data, it’s truly amazing… MY Question is what about GLUCOSE and the amount of naturally occurring sugar that you’re eating in your meals? for instants the banana and watermelon first thing in the morning. It’s a lot of sugar and an would most certainly cause a glucose/insulin spike. Is Bristle adding these factors into the mix? I know bacteria feeds on sugar even if its fructose or carbs .do you ever eat eggs or just plain Greek yogurt, goats milk yogurt.?
The company “Levels (helps people understand how foods effect glucose levels) & Bristle together would be a great mix. but we all need to be willing to pay out of pocket for a now to make a shift to info that actually helpful. Thx again for aa the work you put into this and for sharing
Hey @betsyarnoldlmt, I've used a CGM in the past, no glucose spikes > 130 mg/dL eating like this.
Also, outside of the oral microbiome, there are many videos on the channel detailing my blood biomarkers, which are mostly youthful, including glucose. Full diet composition videos are also on the channel...
Wow, that’s good news thanks-
Do you have a baseline (before mouthwash) test? And did you test pH of water you usually drink or brush your teeth with? Thanks for these posts and the research that went into them.
Thanks Peter. Unfortunately not, but the comparison for Test #1 vs 2 is mouthwash with/without potassium nitrate.
The water is a constant, so I don't expect that it would affect the results. I've also tested the pH of the mouthwash, which is alkaline (> 8).
Potassium nitrate ?!
This substance has been classified as carcinogenic by the International Agency for Research against Cancer (IARC) and by the World Health Organization (WHO). This substance would promote the appearance of stomach cancer and colorectal cancer.
The study that you may be referencing was in rats that were fed megadoses (200, 1000, or 4000 mg/kg bw) of potassium nitrate, which is not what I'm doing, as it's a mouthwash.
In contrast, far lower amounts, including 3% solutions are used as a potential treatment for dental hypersensitivity:
jada.ada.org/article/S0002-8177(18)30802-X/fulltext
I used 4% for this test, and am reducing it to 2% for the next.
could potassium bicarbonate be substituted for sodium bicarbonate ? and is there any substitutions for Potassium nitrate this might be hard to get outside of the USA due to its use in unsavory industries like munitions etc
Yes, potassium bicarbonate can be substituted, but note that the focus is on oral nitrate, not potassium. Too much oral potassium can be a bad thing:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5493431/
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 im trying to find some good evidence, but im thinking of using peppermint tea (2 teabags for 1L in place of pepermint oil and potassium nitrate as the mint tea is a source of nitrates but its hard to find actual nitrate figures and even harder in Australia to get things like sodium nitrate or even potassium nitrate to many bad uses of them making it very hard to purchase
@@jarrodhockley You might not need the oral nitrate though-it didn't work for me, that info is in tomorrow's video...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 love this channel and your work. on a related note xlear brand used for nasal rinses in reading the sachet ingredients 6g sachet xylitol, sea salt, sodium bicarbonate.... lol so the frankenstien in me is thinking 2x 6g sachets of xlear and 2 teabags of peppermint tea in 0.5 L of water and we have a less then scientific close approximation of your recipe.....
If you aren't OK with chemicals for oral cleaning an alternative would be to use turmeric powder ( but keep it far from your clothes ) or dried oregano powder or just a brush and water as do a lot of dental experts.
Hi there, what would you suggest to specifically reduce levels of P. Gingivalis? This particular one was extremely high in my first Oral DNA test and I wanted to target it because it's known to cause RA, which I have. Once I did root-planing and scaling and took care of several other dental issues, along with vastly improving my oral hygeine at home and through deep cleanings more frequently - my RA symptoms essentially disappeared. Whenever I slack off on my home or dental office care, I very soon start to experience mild RA symptoms again.
Hey @bingohhhhhhhhhhhh, peppermint oil inhibits P. gingivalis growth: ruclips.net/video/EnkJqACCEE4/видео.html
Have you looked at using a better toothpaste? And go plant based?
A different toothpaste is possible. In terms of plant-based, I average 86g of fiber/day, which is probably more than most vegans.
You should have done like 10 tests as the baseline, in the same day, to see if they come up the same. If not, what's the point of going through all this trouble if the testing is bad?
Bristle is using whole genome sequencing, it's highly that the test is bad.
It's true that there will be test-to-test variability, so it's unknown if any of the reductions are related to that or nitrate. However, with nitrate in the mouthwash, levels of nitrate-reducing bacteria should've increased, and that it didn't happen, it argues against having nitrate in the mouthwash (or reducing it)/I'm already maxxed out for nitrate-reducing bacteria.
10 tests without an intervention, just being used as a baseline is impractical in terms of time and cost-it would cost ~$1000, and I wouldn't have any alterations to my oral biome over that time period. In contrast, by figuring out what's optimal over those 10 tests with various interventions, I can take stuff out afterwards to identify potential causative agents. I'm more interested in finding the optimal biome first. Others can do it the way you've proposed, I'm ok with that.
Not a big fan of Xylitol. Most comes from GMO Corn from China! Health Guru.
HOW DID YOU MEASURE ORAL BACTERIA
Whole genome sequencing via Bristle
Finally
Ha, I needed enough time to allow for potential microbiome changes, then for Bristle to analyze the data, then for me to figure out the interpretation...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 do Bristle provide error bars for their testing? It seems likely that most of the test-to-test changes were not significant.
@@christopherbrand5360 With only 2 tests, there's no way to compute statistical significance.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 certainly not at your end! No, I meant to ask Bristle if they had those statistics, as a testing company they really should (it is a basic competence in measurement).
@@christopherbrand5360 In that case, it would be 2 of my tests vs their whole population-2 tests can't be used for statistical comparisons. Also, note that comparing me against their whole population may not be optimal either, which is why I've focused on changes for relative abundance in the video.
Great video. I would look into cyclodextrin as used by Dr Emily Stein in her own oral microbiome product.
Thanks Sath Math. Which aspect of my salivary microbiome composition do you expect cyclodextrin to improve?
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Watch her RUclips lecture. It does not publish my link.
Oral ecology Emily Stein is video.
@@sathmath8544 Thanks for that. Only one of the bacteria that she mentions is a potential problem for me, Tannerella forsythia. In the video, I show data where clove oil may be beneficial.
Here's the data from her website:
primal-health-llc.myshopify.com/pages/phossident%E2%84%A2
There's no mention of what's in her prebiotic product, so that's a buyer beware (for me).
Time to make commerical available CAoDT! mouth wash!
What's CAoDT?
Conquer Aging Or Die Trying! (CAoDT!)
@@MrEtc31265 Ah, gotcha! Lol, I need a better acronym
I made a video about you at "Peter Rogers MD," you tube channel. I think you are smart & on to something good with this detailed tracking of diet & lifestyle correlations to lab results. However, it seems that you have only read "university" type biochemistry & physiology books which are all very out of date, and wrong. This is what's holding you back. Once you study the nutrition & pathophysiology insights of people outside of the university system, like Kempner, McDougall, myself, & others, you will be amazed at how fast you progress. You won't be able to make sense of your data, until you learn more about nutrition & pathophysiology.
I looked at your video. You're recommending high carbohydrate diets as the "best"? That shows zero real world experience with metabolic health. Buy a glucose meter and test what happens to your blood sugar levels when you eat carbohydrates. Your recommendations lead to diabetes, cancer and heart disease.
Michael is way out of your league.