Attempting To Optimize The Oral Microbiome, Part 3: A Role For Berberine
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
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Papers referenced in the video:
Association between periodontal pathogens and systemic disease
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Anti-biofilm properties of Satureja hortensis L. essential oil against periodontal pathogens
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
An in vitro study of the effects of Phellodendron bark extract and berberine chloride on periodontal pathogenic bacteria in the oral microbiome
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Thanks for all this report and the links.
Brilliant, Michael. There really are no words enough to thank you for your gift of knowledge and dedication to the betterment of all humans. Amazing really.
Thanks paloAlto!
@@conqueragingordietrying123 I would have run 3 tests at the start to see the natural variance of the bacteria as you could be chasing a ghost here. Great data and this will help me as I seem to be missing the nitrate converting bacteria. 😊.
Yep, thanks@@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline, and at least 3 baseline tests. Even in genetically homogenous animal models, at least 3 mice, for example, is used as a control group, but more data is obviously better.
thank you, what a ride this was, worth binging better than netflix.
Thanks @mtrps_, there are more videos in the oral microbiome playlist...
@@conqueragingordietrying123 oh, im definitely continuing the journey! cheers! :)
Thank you very much for presenting this information regarding berberine and I look forward to seeing your results.
I take 500 mg of berberine 3 times daily to improve my gut microbiome. Each time I take a capsule, I open it and sprinkle about a quarter of it on my tongue to improve my oral microbiome. I received both bits of advice regarding beberine in dreams a few years ago. After a few months of this, I stopped opening the capsules.
Since getting covid this past spring, I was advised via a dream to gargle with salt water and apple cider vinegar (and get back to sprinkling a little berberine on my tongue too). I mix 1/4 tsp of salt and one teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in 1/2 cup of water and gargle in the morning and before bed.
I have also been advised (via a dream again) to have a spoonful of homemade soy yogurt, made with B. Longum BB536 probiotic, for dessert after meals. I was already eating a couple of spoonfuls of the yogurt in my smoothies (to improve my gut microbiome).
I believe the acetic acid in the vinegar and the acetate in the yogurt reduce the growth of pathogens. Berberine reduces the growth of numerous pathogens including yeast.
That's interesting about berberine-you're the first person besides me (that I know of) to apply it orally!
The only way to know for sure is by quantifying your oral microbiome-have you done that yet?
This is how the greatest science mankind has done has always been done--intuition. Super cool, thanks for commenting.
Could you elaborate on getting dream tips? Do you have a dream routine, keep a journal, have lucid dreams?
@@conqueragingordietrying123 I have never done an oral microbiome test, but I sure look forward to learning how adding berberine to your mouthwash affects your test results. You may want to try the method I've used of directly sprinkling the berberine in your mouth (unfortunately it's very bitter!). It's important that it reaches the back of your tongue. At the very least, I recommend gargling with your mouthwash, rather than only mouth swishing.
Thanks again for sharing your health journey on RUclips.
@@JoneThePwn Indeed and thank you! I'm fortunate to receive much advice via my dreams, especially when it comes to my health. I receive incredibly detailed diet and supplement advice on a regular basis.
Cool video, I was just reading about berberine having an effect on reducing TMAO levels through the microbiome, it's a hot topic supplement these days, I think the SatFat crowd loves it as well. Shame there isn't a readily available food source, but I have a feeling based off of nothing that garlic acts in a similar enough way - though I'm not sure about using garlic to treat halitosis!
An older (quite healthy) friend had a stroke recently that put him in hosp for weeks on high dose antibiotics. It was caused by a heart infection from root canal ~2 months prior. He opted out of prophylactic antibiotics. Never again. His physician in hosp (our neighbour) said some are more vulnerable for diff reasons BUT can/does happen to anyone at any age. Woke up a lot of us incl a friend who’s only 29. She (and I) will now take antibiotics before any invasive dental work. Edit: Pls pass this on if you read it. Thx.
Love it 💕
amazing testing, very useful information. My mouthwash mix is xylitol, erythritol, tea tree oil. Been considering to add oregano oil and berberine from this video
That's a similar formula to mine-have you quantified your oral microbiome to evaluate your mouthwash's impact?
To this point since I do have an evaluation with Bristle how do I base my homemade mouthwash on my specific evaluation?
@@cinzialbm That's a great question that depends on the composition of your salivary microbiome. I'd watch parts I and II of this series, as I provide the rationale for why I've included thing like nitrate, xylitol, sodium bicarbonate, etc.
If you're not satisfied with your evaluation, I offer consults on Patreon, which may be of interest.
@@conqueragingordietrying123
Totally! I’ll reach out to you on Patreon for a consultation. Thank you!
@@conqueragingordietrying123 I haven't but I want to some day. Have you considered the fact that tea tree might also kill off good bacteria in the microbiome?
I ordered from Bristle and had my results
Bristle suggested Beets chews for nitrates, 1 pro and 1 pre biotic
as my levels of bad breath bacteria were very high
Mainly because of dry mouth and some level of gum disease that is though checked every few months
A dentist years ago had told me to check the health of the gums by smelling the floss thread and sure enough 2 specific areas start to smell minutes after a meal.
I wonder in a gum laser treatment would improve the beneficial bacteria vs the opportunistic ones??
Lots of trial and error
Thanks for your work
I'm really waitung for your breathing video... Regarding the oral microbiome - I think, it will react on changes much faster than the organ systems, which are tested by blood tests. Why not o an oral microbiome test every month? As soon as it is optimized, you might switch to once every 3-4 months. My expactation is, that the oral microbiome might alter composition already in 2 weeks or so. Btw. which test do you take?
Thanks Papa, I'm waiting to collect more data to see if the BP-lowering effect that I saw is real or not, so right now I'm purposefully not doing the breathing exercises. I may make an update video within the next month-I have 2 videos first in line, though.
I'm not sure what the optimal frequency is to test the oral microbiome, or how quickly it responds to an intervention-I think at least 2 weeks is a safe bet. That said, I may test again in about another week, which will be 2 weeks of berberine in the mouthwash. I've tested 3x in 5 months, so it's not far from every month. It takes time to figure out the right (or next) intervention, and I don't want to rush the process. But, if berberine gets it to where I want it, I can definitely cut back on the testing. But I can see an argument for more testing even after that, to see if the changes are dependent on berberine, or not.
I used Bristle, the link is above in the video's description.
As always, wonderful presentation! I think I've commented before that this channel is one of the very few that actually helps me adjust course and change daily habits based on connecting dots in the literature. I have also started using a homemade mouthwash similar to yours except: I did not use the potassium nitrate and instead used the amino acid arginine which seems to accomplish the goal through a different mechanism; I also added teatree oil and neem oil which seem beneficial in the lit. I'd encourage you to check those out as well! I may consider adding berberine now - does it affect the taste much?
Thanks John. Have you quantified your oral microbiome? That's what's driving the inclusion of things in the mouthwash, so I'd recommend tracking it.
Berberine definitely affects the taste, but it's far from unbearable-with a higher dose (> 100 mg/L), it would likely be worse. The big issue with berberine is (potential) teeth yellowing, which is possible because berberine has a strong orange color. However, it's possible that I'll include berberine for a while, optimize my salivary microbiome, and then go back to the base formulation without it, which would minimize that effect.
@@conqueragingordietrying123 I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but now maybe is the time to oder from Bristle.
Okay, great to know about the taste and possible yellowing, thank you again!
Michael, thank you 🙏 for sharing your data. Have you tried to change your oral micro biome with BLIS probiotics?
Thanks Alex Sassani. Yep, I supplemented with S. salivarius B12 for Test #4, which is currently being processed.
…as we get older, our tonsils atrophy…and they collect food…which in turn is like a Petri dish for bacteria…so if we are to look into improving the spectrum of bacteria in the throat, then we need to consider the tonsils, if we still have them
Thanks Michael. I used to take 1/2 tsp berberine sublingually every morning... terribly bitter and I worried about discoloration of my teeth, so I stopped. Maybe I should resume again.
Hi Mark, that's also a concern. My hope is that berberine can help get rid of Fusobacterium and Porphyromonas, and then I'll test without berberine, to see if the changes stick.
That's the best case scenario, but there is a possibility that the changes only stick with berberine, and then I'll have a choice-yellow teeth (or more regular tooth whitening, to compensate) vs having oral bacteria that may mess up systemic health at a later date.
I've been taking Berberine
for two year's but not for my
oral microbiome ,
i can't even remember why i started
taking it now LoL.
You probably started to take it to increase insulin sensitivity and for sugar control.
^ this
Thx for this another great video. In addition to improved oral microbiome, it could be helpful to combine berberine (in the morning ) and metformin (at lunch) as a preventive strategy against diabetes, cardiovascular disease and neuro degeneration. But doing so I know we jump from the medical field to the biohacking area. So it's not a medical advice.
Thanks Abdelilah. I understand the rationale for using berberine as a dietary supplement, but there's no demonstrated need in my case to take it like that. Blood glucose was 83 on the last test, for example.
@@lindapestridge3073 exactly Prof. but at a certain stage of life I prefer to be proactive and not wait until I am diabetic or even pre-diabetic to consider taking an intresting molecule like berberine or metformin. Of course I speak only for myself .
Interesting. Curious what the source of berberine is assuming that it’s not from supplements.
Hey Vedran, it's berberine powder, which I then mix into the homemade mouthwash.
great video! what are your thoughts on BLIS K12 and M18 oral probiotics?
Thanks Kevin. I'm currently taking S. salivarius (BLIS K12), as mentioned at the end of the video...
I wouldn't recommend blind supplementation though-in my case there is a demonstrated need.
Will you add the
Summer savory oil
back after you see how the
berberine chloride goes.
Unfortunately not-the data in this test was my worst so far, and that's when I applied summer savory oil topically to regions in my mouth almost daily. An argument can be made that it may have cause those changes...
What about the leftover liquid of fermenting high nitrate vegetables as a mouth wash?
It should already be neutral or high ph because of the salt added for antibacterial and prebiotic enhancement
Awesome work. I love your mission and vision for helping us heal
And also learning about our bodies on a deeper level! This is the lords work! I bet the best dentists in the world don't even know this stuff
Thanks @911Audits, good idea. Daily beet intake is up to 330g/d, so oral nitrate shouldn't be an issue. I'm thinking I may have an infected tooth as the Serratia cause, I may have that looked at within the next month.
Conclusions: Royal jelly demonstrates beneficial properties as a potential tooth storage medium.............good enough for manufacter to put into their paste... u may try ....
I'm looking for more specific data, i.e. an impact on Fusobacterium and Porphyromonas, rather than general recommendations.
Is this oral rinse and bacterial balance related to increasing Nitric Oxide through breathing? (Such an odd question, I know.)
…for the last 30 years , in the morning I chew a small chunk of raw ginger root with a little water…
16:15 kissing? Seems like having a healthy partner could be beneficial for the oral microbiome.
I can't remember - does your mouthwash include bicarbonate? Seems like the HCl part of berberine HCl would acidify the mix.
Definitely, but with my current oral microbiome, it would probably be bad news to transfer these microbes. No kissing for me until I've gotten rid of Porphyromonas and Fusobacterium. I sent a saliva sample for analysis today, we'll see if berberine worked or not!
It does have bicarbonate-that's a good point about HCL, but 100 mg shouldn't neutralize 11g of bicarbonate.
Too bad about streptococcus salivarius. I’ve been using clove oil even before covid to prevent waking up with a sore throat or getting covid. So far so good though 🤞🤞
No worries KoiRun, probiotic supplementation should re-seed it, and then hopefully it will stay in my salivary microbiome. It's unfortunate about clove oil, but it's possible that the dose (~5 drops/mL) was too high. It's possible that clove oil works for you, though...
Hmm good point about dose. How much do you use? I make a big jar, generally 2 drops/30ml of distilled water. Swish and gargle twice and sometimes even swallowing some.
@@KoiRun50 Ah, that's a higher dose than mine-5 drops/L, so 1 drop per 200 mL. But, it shows that there isn't a recipe for all people!
So what are the best compounds to reduce halitosis specifically?
There are lots of studies on that, but identifying it the individual level (beyond common recommendations to floss, brush, tongue scrape, etc) is likely different between people. So there isn't a 1-size-fits all approach...
Mouthwash chemicals to counteract all the bad bacteria caused by your eating the wrong foods?
That's unlikely, as my blood test data argues against that hypothesis.
This is very interesting. However I don't think a single measurement for each 'test' is at all adequate. We need a baseline or control and that should be something like at least 20 measurements taken each day at the same time over several weeks (ideally a few hundred measures with several each day). Then we repeat for the different concoctions of mouthwash. It's impossible I think to come to any firm conclusions with the exisiting set-up. Please persevere this is an important avenue of inquiry for health. Thank you for your ideas thus far.
I now have 3 measurements, and am working on collecting on more data. Yes, it's very preliminary data, no doubt, I'm not trying to be definitive with my conclusions.
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Very interested in the results. I've used rosemary tea as mouthwash for years after noticing it never gets mouldy if left to stand (unlike green tea). There are endless possibilities. Good luck.
Was there an update on this?
Specific to berberine, yes:
ruclips.net/video/k0ftB1ESz1g/видео.htmls
Ever looked at fisetin?
I hadn't, but I just checked-no published studies, yet:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=fisetin+saliva+microbiome&schema=all&sort=date&size=200
Ever looked at propolis?
Not yet-is there published data for its impact on the oral microbiome?
Use natural Berberine, add pepper.
I'm using berberine chloride, in conjunction with what was used in the paper presented in the video.
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Berberine chloride is toxic.
@@zakhariahk.8720 For the paper presented in the video, it's toxic to bacteria related to adverse oral health, while allowing for the expansion of the "good" bacteria (Streptococcus). Got some published papers showing that berberine is toxic for oral health?
@@conqueragingordietrying123 yes right but not for the liver, better not swallow it.
@@zakhariahk.8720 I'm using 100mg of berberine per Liter in the mouthwash, which lasts about a week. When dividing these numbers, I'm using around 140 mL of mouthwash/day, so I'm exposing my mouth (and potentially systemically) to ~14 mg of berberine/day. I try not to swallow any of it, but 14mg/d, even if all of it is swallowed, is a very low dose. At most, I probably swallow < 1%, which is an even lower berberine dose, ~1mg/d.
This oral microbiome and Alzheimer risk may not be causative. I guess eating too much added sugar will increase both oral microbiome and Alzheimer's disease.
There is no added sugar in my diet, with the exception of 1 or 2 in a 2-month period...
☑️YOUT VOICE IN VIDEOS IS VERY LOW ENOUGH TO LISTEN EASILY.. U SHOULD RAISE YOUR TALKING VOLUME FOR EASY LISTENING 🚀🔊.
Its android smartphone i am using.
It's probably a mobile issue-I just checked (I'm on a Mac), and the volume isn't low...
@@conqueragingordietrying123 WILL YOU PLZ. CHECK OUT ON ANDROID MOBILE AND OPTIMIZE IT FOR ANDROID PHONES... OTHERWISE MANY VIDEOS ON MY PHONE GAVE PROPER SOUND.
You're doing too much, you were irritating your oral soft tissue, and need to let the bacteria settle without so much mouthwash. Clove is not a good idea as essential oils are too damaging, especially if it wasn't ecocert labeled to reduce toxic exposure.
Ha, if you think this is too much, wait until you see the disaster that was test #4. But you’re right, I’ve simplified it, for now.
And/Or = Or
Not necessarily. And/Or can be both or either.