Behringer Clones Entire Moog Sound Studio
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- The clone wars rage on as @behringer announces yet another @MoogSynthesizers synthesizer clone, the Spice. A Subharmonicon clone. With that said, the entire Moog Sound Studio will be cloned. Hear my thoughts on this episode.
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Can’t wait for Behringer to clone the Porsche 911 GT3 RS so I can finally afford one.
😅
ive been producing for almost 30years, worked for several big manufacturers, owned everything from aturia to yamaha. ive owned moogs. ive owned behringer. anyone who can say they can guess between a Moog Model D and the Behringer Model D is lying. its makes me laugh to watch those moog elitist bash behringer gear. no one cares what made that sawtooth, they care if the music is good or not. debating the 'ethics' of cloning is pointless and childish. you have a synth, i have a synth - who givea a shit what synth was used on a song? i applaud behringer for bringing AFFORDABLE and QUALITY products to the market. (as my Moog Model D is in for second keybed repair.)
Having also worked in the industry I 100% agree about people thinking they can easily hear differences. They can't.
Its like buying a tshirt from a designer brand that was made the same way as a tshirt in walmart, at the same factory even.
I bought a MEMORY MOOG OMG THE PRESET SO I CAN SAVE SOUNDS IS THE GREATEST AND WHAT A MACHINE
I think it's gatekeeping in the industry, they want to make more expensive and hard to get into
As an analog synth fan, and a Behringer fanboy, let me say this: if MOOG (or Sequential, or Roland, etc) was the only option for analog synths, I would own maybe one, simply due to price. But because Behringer is so freakin' affordable, I own half-a-dozen, and I know I'm not the only one. I think that makes the world a slightly more musical place as a result 😉
I think Moog and Roland are trying to tap into the affordable market now by making stripped down gear. I agree though, it’s all about making music and having fun.
Or having a lot of Synthesizers not being touched because you dont usually need 5 Monosynth with no preset memory for making music nowadays
@@andreasbreuss5907 yeah at least if you have a DAW. I know many Dawless that will use them all but they play them all at once.
Behringer is the reason I got into buying synths in the first place. I don't want to try working with a synth, see if it suits me when it costs me a kidney to buy a single one. I started with the TD-3-MO and the Crave. Now I own 12 Behringer synths / drum machines, 3 other brand machines and a bunch of effect pedals both Behringer and other brands. I have an X32 and just ordered a bunch of Behringer Eurorack modules. I now have a full (yet never complete lol) studio and still own both of my kidneys.
I would never have started with Synt without Behringer, now after 7 months in this hobby I spend a lot of money in many other brands, started with modular.
The music space is fun and expensive. Not everyone is flushed with cash. The focus on cloning is getting old. Behringer does nothing financially or physically to harm a Moog owner. Only emotionally. If a product allows someone to enter the space and have fun, I’m all for that versus the mess we see in our daily newsfeed. When we pump the brakes on worrying what others use and throttle our gas pedal of what we have and enjoy, we can get back to doing what brought us into this space. Good points made in the video.
You are wrong in everything you are saying cause you are watching it from the wrong point of view. The thing here is not damaging the already happy moog owners. We don’t envy you.
It’s damaging the whole r&d behind these products.
you don’t see that without revenues for moog there would be no r&d, and without r&d you wouldn’t have got the original products, and hence the moog clones from behringer.
Very low understanding of what product development is and that you need revenues to repay capital investment.
Competition in the liberal market should be about proposing alternatives that push your competitors to improve. This is just price dumping eating at their table
Now think that you’ve personally worked one year to design a product and it gets immediately copied. How does that feel?
“Behringer does nothing financially or physically to harm a Moog owner. ” correct, it hurts Moog employees. You know, regular Americans.
The music space is actually cheaper than ever... but we are getting bombarded with so many options and FOMO on that one particular sound that we need, that all the G.A.S. makes it seem unbearably expensive. It is definitely an entry point with the Behringer line-up into exploring and getting into all of this.
@@voidmusic549 damaging the R&D? I really do not think that all too many people who are actually in the market for a Moog, would buy the Behringer instead. Buying a Moog is, as many have mentioned, a more acquired taste to some extent... you get the quality, the haptics, the optics, and the last bit of refinement in sound, along with good customer service and the prestige of owning a Moog. No, I would say that these types of cheaper alternatives from Behringer will ultimately make the "hobby" bigger and ultimately provide more potential customers for more premium products/brands. Because we all know that some younger people are getting into this with little money and grow into the premium consumer eventually, and even people with more purchasing power sometimes need a lower entry point to get into something before they really commit....
@@voidmusic549 your pulpit speech falls on deaf ears and doesn’t change the fact that I and many others WILL buy Behringer clones regardless of the business r&d ethical debate because a lot of us are hobbyists and not paid musicians. If Moog wants to sell overpriced synths to rich folk then more power to them, but I’m not interested in their gear because I can’t afford it.
These are excellent points i can see the passion in opinions and appreciate that
Behringer isn't quite like the example you give regarding Amazon, Walmart, etc. Behringer own the entire supply chain - from chip manufacturing, R&D, to the actual factories that make the equipment and even distribution is controlled by them by deciding who gets their products through their 'super partners'. This is part of the reason they can offer things so cheaply.
Quite frankly, the Moog stuff isn't better built. It's made from very similar components and it's only 'assembled' in the USA. Their circuit boards aren't made in the US. They're printed in China just like everyone else's. Moog would like you to believe otherwise because they can charge more by saying 'made in the USA', but they simply assemble the various things at the plant in Ashville, NC. Sure, Moog's R&D, marketing, etc. is also US-based as well but their lower level employees were looking at unionizing very recently because of the level of pay their received versus the price of products. Moog use Chinese components - just like everyone else. The difference is, is that because it has a Moog badge on it with 'made in the USA' they charge a premium for their product. It's similar to designer clothing brands. Designer brands are made in the same factories as their cheaper competitors, but because it's 'designer' they can charge more for them. Moog isn't any different really.
The build quality of the Behringer synth stuff is rock solid. I own a bunch of it and don't have a single complaint. It sounds great too. I think you're fooling yourself if you think because you paid more, that Moog's versions sound 'better' and are better built. Starsky Carr has a great comparison video up on here in between the DFAM and the Behringer version and they sound identical.
Where I will agree with people in this whole debate regarding Behringer is the company's ethics. Personally I think they'd be better off building upon their Neutron line of semi-modular stuff than cloning these. Behringer is a much bigger company than Moog and can scale a lot easier and obviously provide them at a much cheaper price as a result. They've also gone after some people in public and it's been pretty tacky - like the whole cork sniffing debacle.
I can understand if you don't want to support Behringer based upon ethics, but on sound and build quality alone you're fooling yourself...
Appreciate your thoughts.
To trained ears, Moog will sound different unless Behringer use the exact same schematics for their clones. I did listen to the comparison video you are mentioning and it sounds 90% there. And there are some differences between the behringer clones and the Moog ones with some design choices like filters.
Other than perhaps a few parts like you mentioned which are still important, many of the Moog parts are sourced from the USA. I think it would be beneficial to do a video on this since many people ask this.
I am also aware of much of what you are talking about and have discussed them in previous videos. I cannot give an opinion on build quality for behringer other than what users say having used both. If you listened to my video I did mention Moog has their own issues and I have been vocal about them.
All in all, I appreciate your civil rebuttal.
Square wave is very very similar, triangle is a bit different. And the filter is the biggrst difference, in my opinion. Different doesn't mean better or worse. Personally, I prefer Moog ladder filter, but I don't think that alone change the sound so much to justify 3X price (again, my opinion). So it's Behringer for me.
Regarding "brand value", it reminds me of Apple, they're accused of the same. Strange enough, I don't see lots of people complaining about Microsoft stealing ideas from them, nonetheless this is a fact. And Apple computers cost more, but not 3X other Windows computers. And, the OS is different, and some people (like me) can really appreciate the difference, maybe some other not. Ah, Apple computers are "Made in California", but they make stuff in China and assemble in the USA. Very similar situation, different reactions from people though. Apart maybe from "dedicated" Apple users, which are often seen as hipsters. Like Moog owners.
i am a moog fan boy, but the bit of them controlling their supply chain is interesting to me.
Give me a break. No foreign company in China "owns" or "controls" anything. There's a reason Apple is divesting manufacturing in China.
I dont think these were even intended to be clones of the sound.
They clone the feature set, but they use their 3340 VCO clone (MemoryMoog, OB-Xa, various Prophets), which honestly is better than the Moog oscillators. Its a real pity they didnt expose more of its options in the crave esp, its the same osc as the Neutron.
I've just bought Moog DFAM & Subharmonicon. I don't feel like I've wasted my money. Perfect tool for synth jams.
Well those volca type rotary buttons are really terrible.
I think that the metal knobs that the Behringer have will make the materials more durable, we know that wobbly plastics stop responding after a year of being used. (I know this thanks to Moog Werkstatt, they are the same bad thing)
@@inperfectsequence7840my behringer shit breaks all the time, lucky I know how to fix it
The moog interface and feel is probably worth it even if it doesn't at the time
Vey cool narrative, thanks Tiger!
I have a mother and 2 DFAMS. I'm blown away by how good the Edge sounds. If I could go back in time, I'd have happily bought two Edges instead. Would happily have welcomed the MIDI functionality, instead of needing a Beatstep Pro to wrangle the DFAMs to do what I want.
Having the patch on the right is much better, but I just use longer patch cables for the Crave... can't wait to get the Spice and Edge and rack all 3 side by side on a wall shelf! I love the colors.
I already have the Crave, Neutron, and K-2 . . . they work perfectly well, even have some features a bit beyond Moog, sound "close" enough for me. For the actual price of these items, it's a very reasonable option to consider.
A tiny proportion of these products end up in the hands of folk who actually making a day to day living out of using them. The rest of us are hobbyists, aspiring stars and enthusiasts. And no matter how interesting, dull, exciting or colourful the kit is, it's consumer electronics. Behringer, Roland, Moog, and many others understand the consumer electronics market very well. As per previous posts, just like any other consumer market.
Personally I have a budget for my hobby, and am happy that I have increasing choices of how to use it. My choices might be made on the basis of budget, ethics, beliefs or experience. Do I enjoy using my Erica and Moog kit more than a VST, or a Roland boutique, or a Behringer? Does it sound better? Is it more ergonomic, does it fit my workflow better? Or is it just a feeling? Does it inspire me more? Or do I feel more committed because I spent £600 instead of £200 on a piece of kit that does a similar job and produces a similar sound? Did I put more time and energy in to my Mother 32 than my Crave? It's a hugely subjective thing, hard to measure, and if it does the job for you at the time you're doing it and you can wave one hand in the air and feel good with your choice for your reasons then happy days, crack on, and have fun making music.
I love that these channels exist on RUclips; they open our eyes to what's out there, give us a taste of new choices and open up debates and discussion. Peace out people x.
tighten up this comment bro come on lol
Having all the jacks on the right on the Moogs is much better
I own the sound studio 3 and am stoked that Behringer has come out with these. They can act as a gateway for exploring sound for folks. I plan to pick up the edge for the connectivity that the DFAM lacks and the peace of mind if I want to take it outside the studio to a friend's house. I would love to see Moog have a business model like Gibson and Epiphone, cheaper entry-level options, and the pro models made in Ashville but I don't think that would ever happen.
💯appreciate your thoughts man!
Moog should release a Mooginger Series where the clone behringers clones and source from china and sell same price.
I would love to see Behringer have a business model of designing original and innovative products
@@synthsamuraiproductions I believe Moog is more interested in preserving their integrity and their commitment to a strong American workforce than just profit.
Exactly. F Behringer.
Moog is Moog, is like a Fender to guitar and bass.
Wich Epiphone Guitar in the Background is this? What Modell Number? Thanks! Bro ❤️
When I got my Crave I preordered it because it looked like an interesting original concept to me for a reasonable price. I love the synth, but it was a bit of a bummer when I found out that it is just a clone of an existing, available product.
I bet your wallet is happier! ;)
Well you could always just sell it, and then not afford the real version with its different sound & lack of USB!
Like a true connoisseur producer!
Its a feature clone, but the sound is different, it uses their clone of the CEM3340 VCO that Moog only used the the MomoryMoog, but Oberheim and Sequential used extensively.
Open your mind man!! I own a Moog Micromoog and tons of Behringer stuff! I am happy that Behringer exists! Cause Moog their prices are exaggerated!!
It’s expensive to make stuff in the US.
“Cause Moog their prices are exaggerated!!”
Tell that to their workers who want to feed their families and keep the lights on.
Great, reasonable and fair! Well done!
Really appreciate that, thank you for watching! ✌️
Moog is an experience, as you put it
You can’t really point at one thing and say “that’s what makes them more expensive”
Because there’s not one “thing”
It’s the intangibles, how they make you feel, how they inspire you to explore and make music.
I once bought a boog, and while it sounded amazing, really quickly I felt it didn’t invite me or inspire me to make music, it was just a tool, but it wasn’t feeling like an actual music instrument
Synths like the grandmother or subsequent 37, they feel like a grand piano feels in the sense that they’re inspiring and rewarding in ways that go far beyond just the sound and can’t be clearly defined.
You feel the love of making music instruments that they put in, the special ingredient in the recipe that makes all the difference.
Some of the behringer clones might have a bit of that too, but none I’ve tried did, except maybe a bit in the RD8, but I ended up selling it anyways.
When it comes to moog, entry level ones didn’t necessarily have that either (looking at you, Sirin)
But as soon as you get to the mid level moogs, you’ll start getting that full on moog experience
And there’s no experience like that elsewhere that I’m aware of (granted I don’t have other high end analog synths like prophets or oberheim, I used to have a pro one that felt great and quirky in an ms20 kind of way)
I have subsequent 37 áñd have á great sound,but 6 boob model d is incredible,no speak english,all have a great sound,the good piano is a Roland v-synth ánd subsequent bbyee
Its not an experience. Its a tool. Manufacturer bias has made it "an experience". I am sorry, but I use my Behringer synths along with my OG synths as equals. They are tools to get a desired effect. Nothing more.
If you can afford Moog, get Moog. If you are just starting out, the Behringer stuff sounds great for the price.
@Nel Gabriel LMAO🤣🤣🤣I have Moogs and Behringers right next to each other. They all sound and feel great. You sound like such a tool
@@ericMT But this is the question. (and I mean this sincerely Eric). Why spend 2000 on a Moog, when you can get exactly the same sound (Starsky Carrs videos have proven it), for a 10th of the cost? And those that claim they can tell, would not notice the slightest difference in a mix!
This whole Moog range looks like hipster bait. For 2k dollars you can get a 16 voice analogue poly from Sequential. And if I really wanted them, I'd take the cheaper Uli copies, have my fun and move on. I wish Moog designed a polyphonic synth that does not cost as much as a car.
That's because it is overpriced hipster bait. Fortunately i realized it early enough and sold most of mine when other manufacturers entered the marked. Unfortunately i still sit on a rarely used Sub Phatty with gooey side panels and sticky mod/pitch wheels (thx for using cheap plasticizer on a "premium" instrument) and a broken octave switch because they also used cheap switches on the board inside.
You think their entire line is hipster bait, not just these three Moog products?
It's good that both exist and get supported. With one you support the innovation and with the other you support the competition which is important for fair consumer prices.
Competition is not cloning. Quite a distorted idea of what market is
@@voidmusic549 it's literally competition. You may hate the way they do it but these clones are gonna take market share away from moog, which is competition.
@@heimdall4148 if the US taxed heavily on non-domestic products, it would benefit all. In your model, it benefits China. Moog can lower prices, and go out of business or close their r+d. No new products, bcos it sure sounds like you’re not supporting “both”.
You think you can rely on others to support inventive companies, but there is a breaking point.
@@brmbkl it also benefits Germany in this case. And inovative products will always be sold especially when reverse engineering takes 2 years like in this case. It's the same with cars. Every car company buys cars from the competition and takes them apart to steal ideas. Same with phones. Apple invented the iphone but other company's stole the idea and also started making simular looking devices. In the case of behringer, they did the same. They bought a moog, reverse engineered the device and added some functionality that they thought was an improvement.
Finally I got the complete moog SS3 and I really enjoy it!
But if I knew that a cheaper version is on its way I would have waited.
But now I'm settled and have no intention of selling to get a cheaper version. But yeah, I would have liked to save that money...
Thanks for the video
At last, a non venomous, straight to the point, calm and collected viewpoint. Thumbs up. So far I have two Pro 1s :-)
have a DFAM and Sub37, Behringer products are intended to be used other way around, and not the same as the MOOG ones, from knob and a patch-bay, to the choice of the materials and colors, to a aluminum finish - all of that leaves impressions on artist choices when designing patern/sound , lastly two different formats - perhaps they yield similar results, but because of the creative process and overall feel when using them, end result is simply distinct one from another, not better - not worse, just different. There for these have a place of their own in the market. Also not everyone lives in the first world country and can afford expensive gear, bringing gear with similiar concept and making it more accessible to greater audience, price-wise is priceless !
Awesome and appealing video !!!
Moog and Roland should do like Fender and Gibson with Squire and Epiphone because there are many countries where it is impossible to buy their instruments: too expensive in Italy the average salary is 32,000 per year (so there are people like me who earn 20,000 per year). I could NEVER afford a set of Moogs. Well done Behringer filling a market niche
Behringer is literally a clone company. They basically have almost no original products. Even their original products are still based on other products. A lot of their clones are literally the exact same circuit as the real thing, sometimes only being modern versions of the components or a cheaper version. It honestly boggles my mind that people are upset by this or even surprised. I’m honestly surprised they haven’t released an oberheim clone of some sort especially since the new ob-8x came out.
As for the weird colors, think back to literally every big release they have done. Every single one eventually comes out in multiple color options. There are multiple 2600 color options. Multiple color options for all the drum machines and desktop units.
Now normal people can actually put together a cheap version of that monster “the mothership” that Lisa Bella Donna put together. When they released the system 15-55 modules in eurorack that let normal people use moog modular. When they released the Roland system 100 it let normal people feel like Hans zimmer with his house sized Roland 100 with more modules than even a retailer has for sale.
This is nothing new. Look at guitars. Fender. Squire. Then you even have cheaper brands than squire who produce cloned strats, teles, jaguars, jazz masters, p/j basses, etc. normal people simply cannot afford to spend the price of a nice used car on an instrument. Normal people barely have 300 extra bucks in their account for emergencies.
Behringer needs to jump in the American pharmaceutical game and wreck it.
Music is not for the rich only, poor people also deserve good machines in order to create good music .
I have just discovered your channel and I like how you present the information and the way you express your view on Behringer clones.. You have your opinion and freely share it but you try to maintain impartiality and you do not criticize those of us who buy Behringer equipment.
I could never afford the pricier brand, classic synthesizers, but Behringer makes it possible. I have music in my brain that can only be expressed with those 70's analog sounds and Behringer prices allow me to finally put notes to keys and finish my masterpiece (at least a masterpiece to me) 😁
Thank you so much for recognizing that Lance! That is exactly what I am going for. The market is shifting this direction based on the economy. No shame on that at all. Your ears and wallet are your best guides in the end.
Great video brother!! I mean i cant wait for some side by sides. 🥷
Funny at First when I Purchased the Crave I didn't even know it was a Copy since they look totally different.... But I do love the USB and MIDI support on the Crave .. Would love a M-32 but the Price is out of My range !.. Would Love to see an Actual Teardown of Both Machines to see the Hardware difference !!
I don't like Behringer clones in general, but now that Moog has sold out, I feel like these are an exception.
You make really good points about the layout and patchbay thay I never would have considered. Thanks for taking the time to explain things in detail
I’m not sure why we are not all mad at MOOG for ripping us off for years…
I have a crave and I think this fat sound is good for me, but Moog is amazing !!!
Great to hear this view from someone who invested in Moog, but recognizes some cannot do that and this is a way for them to get a taste of these joys. As for CV I/O on the top as mentioned they are meant to be set side by side. Perhaps the thinking was you would set something like their 280hp case "behind" them for eurorack expansion? Smells more like lawsuit avoidance to me...
The Moog studio 3 cost me way more than I wanted to spend, but it makes me smile whenever I walk past it. Such an aura ❤ I love my Deepmind 12 it is a very special machine. Behr should do more of that collaborative synth design.
Nah, they’re better than the moogs. Thinner, sound identical, more features, smarter layout. Ugly front panel design, but indistinguishable. It sound exactly the same
I refuse to pay the markup for a Moog, even at 30% off. Glad Behringer is making this. Anyone whose mad should realize it's not taking away significant business from Moog. People who want Moogs, don't settle for Behringer.
I think that the only good job that Berhinger did was to bring us back the mythical 808 and 909 drum machines, Looking for clones of current machines is out of place and only pursues sales, it's fine for those who don't raise the money but with a little more of effort maybe you can buy a Moog DFam or any other from the rack and enjoy it more, I'm not sure but the movement of the knobs and the sound is possibly deeper than using a Beringher toy
It’s a synth dude. It’s just circuits. No magic involved. There’s nothing “Deep” about it.
@@MrOuija-rr8kq He needs an excuse why he paid 3x the price for even less features.
It's strange how the Behringer 'toys' don't have the same cheap tiny pots that Moog use.
I've got a SubH and the tiny pots cheapen the experience somewhat.
If only Behringer could clone de Buchla modules it would be FANTABULOUS!!!
Newbie here. Is the Moog Studio even for sale anymore? Don't see it listed anywhere. I understand you can buy the units individually.
I wish they'd be clearer about the midi. The manual doesn't say much on the Edge. Doesn't even confirm it responds to Keyboard pitch and Velocity, which I take it does. If this is converted to CV, and direct into the synth engine, does it bypass the patchbay. The manual says the velocity and patch out of the patchbay comes from the sequencer. So if it's just the sequencer, does that mean the midi velocity can't be used in patches, or does it mean you still need to uses the inbuilt sequencer to modulate patchable velocity.
For the Spice, will each oscillator be on a different mid channel? I'm a bit confused how you could replicate the submarnicom sequencer style sequences from a midi synth. Or will it be ow note priority.
If it is bare minimum it just receives midi velocity and pitch, I think they are missing a trick here by not exploring the midi potential. I'm not expecting full mid (as they like to call it) but something that is tailored to the synths needs.
I'm Glad Berheriger didn't Purchace Moog, But they sure do own a few to reverse engineer.
Oversynth Overlays are great
I have three Craves and going to buy also Edge and Spice. MIDI in/out/through is the killer feature in these devices. There are overlays and you can change knobs - so how these devices looks like is not important.
Say more about why the in/out/through is the killer feature?
Do you mean chaining them all together, or is there some magic that I'm missing??
@@TheWorld_2099 I use MIDI through with with splitted keyboard between MIDI channels and in addition to that each of Craves modulates each other with patch bay. You can get crazy results with this setup ;)
@@SmallWorldBigThings that sounds amazing…
I only have the one for now, and a Model D, but I can see getting another, or maybe the others in the series…I’m sure they’ll interact in great ways…
So you don’t use the USB MIDI?
@@TheWorld_2099 As the brain of my setup I have Synthstrom Deluge... so the USB MIDI is for different synths in my setup (I can connect 4 other synths with USB hub to Deluge). For three Craves I use DIN MIDI OUT which is also present in Deluge and additionally I use pass through function on Craves. A lot of cables... but it works ;)
@@SmallWorldBigThings that’s very very interesting..!
Yes, I’m struggling a bit with different ways to get midi in and out to my different kinds of setups.
Sometimes I make beats with the MPC X, and sometimes it’s in Logic (although I’m thinking about switching over to Ableton or Studio One), and I really don’t know how to switch back-and-forth between those two systems without pulling everything apart.
I use an old MOTU MIDI Timepiece, which is fine, but surely there must be better now
100% agree on your comments about the totality of the Moog brand. It’s an experience and that’s a part of what you pay for.
Bespoke screwdriver, too. Thanks for kicking off some interesting discussion in the comments.
Your moog set up is beautiful. I can only afford behringer and love both of them
Thank you ☺️
Ive got 2 DFAMS, 5 Mother 32s, a Subharmonicon, a Grandmother and a Matriarch Dark. I like them but I’ve lost the passion for making music so am selling the lot. Im worried Ill regret it but Ive switched the gear on probably 3 times in a year. Rest of the time it sits there gathering dust. 😢
I have the crave, and I might get the edge, but also I might one day come out the pocket for the real Moog. Behringer’s are gateway synths and will expand the market not undercut it.
I totally agree
Couldn't agree more, had a crave got a Mother 32 after and was happy, conversely I got a DFAM and eventually let it go as I couldn't justify having the money tied up in it for what I got out, it's a very personal thing.
I feel like Moog is the Apple Mac of synths for sure, you get the whole luxury experience. I get that. I just go my Crave yesterday it’s my first synth and it feels really good and sounds really good looking forward to getting the Edge. Maybe I save up for Moog one day 😂. Great video and points cheers 🍻
Teenage Engineering is the real Apple pf synths lol, moog is just doing their things
@@bosnianlain yeah... true I can see that :-)
Your head has butterfly wings :)
The Moog Studio 3 is on sale for $1,699 thru the end of June.
Interesting news. I have all three Moog synths, but I got them individually. I'm curious about the midi implementation of the Edge, but the manual doesn't say anything. If it responds to pitch that would be pretty cool, because it would make a pretty awesome bass synth. I also wonder about the longevity of the patch points since they don't have nuts.
good news, it totally responds to pitch!
Wich Epiphone Guitar you Use?
Epiphone Les Paul Special Vintage Edition Walnut
I got the akai apc64 controller ideally for ableton but it's a cross between like a novation launchpad/arturia beatstep/push but it has 1 midi in 2 midi out and 8 cv channels and it has a standalone sequencer so you don't have to have it connected to a computer and I can control 8 channels and save the sequences as projects and later import them to ableton. The apc64 made it incredibly easy to use the moogs that don't have usb or midi connectivity. I use it to control dfam, subharmonicon, B Pro-1 and, B Nuetron (can't wait for the proton). Anybody looking for something to control their gear with I highly recommend checking out the akai apc64 (you do not need ableton to use it but like most controllers it comes with a lite version)
why get upset, we are heading forward, i salute Behringer, 🙏😃🎹 they provide good synths for poor people to explore, that's love I think, all people deserves a synth regardless they are rich or poor. 🙏 For sharing❤️
Great and honest video. For a hobbyist like me, after sound, the knob-feel is also very important. I've never touched a Moog, but the Crave's knobs and switches actually felt way better than I expected beforehand. I would expect a Moog to have a flawless, buttery and consistent feel for the price premium. Can you confirm?
I can, moog is like a high quality precision instrument.
Can confirm. Thanks for watching!
I owned a Slim Phatty and a Moog Voyager for years. Those synths, especially the Voyager, had a real solid feel. You felt like you were playing a precision instrument. I've spent time with the Mother 32 and felt it was a step down. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't nearly as good as the two I mentioned. I've also played the Subsequent 37, which has a good feel, but crams everything together in a Eurorack sort of way. (I have Eurorack, BTW) The "trimmer pots" that Moog is using in it's smaller synths definitely are a big step down in my opinion. Oh, and back in the 70's I bought a Micromoog that I owned for a couple of decades so, no hate here, just honest opinion. YMMV
How does the edge interact with the M32?
Behringer makes creating totally affordable and gives an awesome sound. Can't wait to get my hands on the Edge 😊
I bought my Moog units individually over a few months and probably paid around £1,600 or £1,700 plus the side panels. I don't care what behringer make but I'm not buying it or supporting them. Anyone who thinks I'm just upset because I spent more is wrong, I'm not upset and I'd buy Moog again.
If you buy the behringer stuff, good luck and I hope you enjoy it.
Moog products sound great and there's something about the heritage. I will own one in the future, though it must be one that's built in Asheville. But, with 2 kids in college, a Model D will have to do for now.
Boog Model D, I mean
Dude, your editing is on point.
Thanks Steve! ✌️
I can't wait for the Behringer spice, and then I'll probably call it a day for these modulars.
Behringer have improved immensely over the years. Ive got their Odyssey and as someone who owned a genuine MK3 Odyssey for 12 years Im very pleased with it. The £250 price tag amazes me with the build quality of the thing.
Not sure I would buy anything else though. I had the Poly D and the 303 clone and both died within 6 months. Although Im sure Id be tempted if they cloned an EMS or a Jupiter 6.
Still, if I had gear like this back in the day when I was seriously into making music I would have been overjoyed.
i think Moog needed to sell to raise cash to sue the big B.
I watched this video when it first came out and YT suggested it to me again, which is good because we’re about to find out weather Moog’s quality stays the same now that they’re no longer employee owned. I’m sure nothing will change, but I can see the big company that owns Moog now trying to raise the prices even more… who knows
Im interested to know about durability of conponents because they will inevitably need a service in future. Is 1 more likely to have issues and is 1 harder to repair?
Speaking for myself, Behringer didn't poach me from Moog. As a synth noob, I won't spend $2k on a Moog. I will spend $199 though. And if I like this stuff, maybe I'll graduate to a Moog. Long term, this is good for the industry as a whole, including the premium brands. It's an entry point in the same way Epiphone and Squire are for guitarists.
Also, i was always ok with the price for the sound studio. It was the fact i didn’t want all 3 and there was no option for the subharmonicon and the m32 only.
The same I don’t need the DFAM, most of my stuff is sample based, big beat or hardcore, I have an old Novation DrumStation, and I’d go for an Arturia DrumBrute if the DrumStation dies. Just wanted those two to compliment my KSrack, DX200, with my ESi2000, might look at other items of gear.
I'm wondering why Behringer does this...I mean, it would be super easy to improve on the Moog designs, implement some new features, place the knobs differently, and they could sell a better product than Moog for less. Instead they clone, and alienate people with this. Which is not smart at all from a business perspective.
I'm getting the feeling that Uli at some point in his life has been ridiculed by Moog, Sequential and Arturia, and now he unpacks a giant middle finger. Like a child, because he can.
A special taste of humor😂😂😂
i like it🎉
✌️😎
I think there are moral issues. And one might discuss development costs. On the other had: I have synths as a hobby, spending a certain amount of time playing them at home. I don't gig, I don't really record, I don't make any money with it. I only have limited space. And limited budget. I found the subharmonicon enormously intrigueing. but also knew (or understood from in-depth) reviews I'd never use it as a main synth or play it a lot, so I quickly was at peace with never owning one. Same holds for Moogs over 1500 bucks. This Beringer offers me the opportunity to lay my hands on one given budget, time etc. I think, therefore, that this Behringer hardly will hurt Moogs sales. Likewise I think any serious musician (gigging, recording) will buy a Moog in the end when she wants Moog sounds. I even dare to believe that Behringers will rise demand for Moogs. Their prices are so far apart they are (in) separate markets.
Moog is just acquired by conglomerate inMusic, joining Akai and Alesis...
Gracias por tu contenido, saludos desde México 🇲🇽
Gracias a ti por mirar güey
@@Tiger.Arcade cuando vienes a México amigo?
@@cassettedisco6954 no tengo planes en este momento. Hace tiempo desde que lo he visitado. Mándame un mensaje desde Instagram y hablamos. ✌️
@@Tiger.Arcade tienes discord??
@@cassettedisco6954 la verdad, no. Nadie me lo ha pedido tener uno. Y no se si será útil. Tengo Facebook, Instagram, y TikTok.
From Moog I will probably get the Subsequent 37 which is better for what I do. The low price of Behringher trio puts it in a category that I could get it just to explore new things.
Experience
Thanks for the balanced view! It’s kinda ironic that you say “That’s capitalism” though. The outrage over cloning is capitalist in itself. In a non-capitalist society there wouldn’t be any need for patents and copyright because we’d all have a roof over our heads, health insurance etc. It wouldn’t be about making money but sharing information freely between synth manufacturers so that we could get better and better synths. In a non-capitalist society, Moog and Behringer would collaborate to make synths even better. And I really don’t understand why companies get hate when they make synths affordable even for people on minimum wage. To me the whole discussion seems elitist and strange because I build my own Eurorack modules and guitar pedals. Nobody is too bothered about cloning anything in that space and some module manufacturers even make their modules available as open source projects. When the Subharmonicon came out I was so bummed about the price. Now I can have all three of them for the price of one of those Moog synths.
You want the world to be a nice place where people and companies work together for the benefit of humanity and Earth without being greedy or envious. You have a good heart! However, abuse of power is the issue, not capitalism. Capitalism is the system that brought the people both the innovative Moog all those years ago and also the cheap Behringer! Also, would you believe me if I said that non-capitalist systems suffer the same issue; abuse of power? That is the real enemy. Using principles of non-violence, work out how to tame that animal and you have your utopia.
Wouldnt it be great if they put they Spectravox into production?
I'd rather pay the extra money for the real thing. The Moogs in this video aren't that expensive to being with.
The phenomenon of when a current product is almost-cloned like this reminds me a little of the appearance of Japanese cars in a market previously dominated by American and European manufacturers. They were basically making very effective, well-priced vehicles that were heavily influenced by the models that were selling best in those regions. They were able to get a good market share by doing this but also have never displaced the manufacturers of the cars they were imitating.
Beardinger! Awesome!
It really doesn't matter much. Serious users who care about supporting original manufacturers will continue to support Moog. Buyers who are inhibited by the cost of Moog in the first place aren't suddenly going to think "Oh, I should pay the creators, not the cloners." They are going to go for the cheaper option. Moog isn't going to lose sales here. The only people who are going to lose are the customers who buy the substandard quality, and find their gear wearing and tearing way sooner than it should.
Moog will be the same as always. Behringer will snatch up a lot of money from people who think they're getting a bargain. But when you compare that "bargain" to a genuine model that is built to a far higher standard, and maintains its resale value years later, you gotta ask yourself, was it really that much of a bargain?
I'm not personally interested in the Moog modules, and I don't have anything against Behringer politically. What I do dislike is their shitty build quality. I have the TD3, which is fine but I'm not trying to patch it in and out like I would any of my modular gear. The lack of locknuts on the faceplates means every time you patch in and out, the circuit board flexes. That means modules being subjected to unnecessary wear and tear that could be averted for just a few cents per module. Don't support shitty build quality, even if you are okay with clones.
Buy the behringers and some moog stickers, problem solved
I’ve got the moog triad and a couple craves. The craves do not sound like a m32, they sound like a sequential with a ladder filter, not nearly as smooth. The edge I must admit sounds good, as it’s supposed to be a bit crunchy. I’ll be getting a couple of them, though I love my DFAM. Like the crave, I don’t believe the spice will sound like a Subharmonicon. All said, moog soundlab sounds noticeably better than behringer will, actually sounds like moog. DFAM is a drum synth that’s supposed to be played. It only needs clock. The people happy that the edge has midi as if that’s such a huge differentiation don’t get the DFAM at all.
Definitely shouldn't complain about lower price clones with an Epiphone Les Paul sitting behind you 👀
Gibson owns Epiphone. Epiphone Les Paul is more like fenders Squires. Not a clone. They actually have rights to the design and name. 👍
It'd never even occured to me to want a Moog, I'm simply a hobbyist housewife that loves synth but also, like, food? Lol. But these are exciting to me, and not for nothing I love the pop of color instead of the black, masculine industrial vibe. Great rundown, I appreciate it.
Thank you 😊
Totally agree 😄
I’m really really really tired of all black synths myself. I love gf explore too.
Mmmh I'm just too POOR to buy a Moog, but in fact I love this orange box that I craved for long ❤️
Moog said it. They looked at the price of their vintage gear and then decided to price themselves based on those. I'm glad their greed made their business model unviable. If we didn't have behringer, you'd still pay 300-500 for a 303 clone. CLONE. Or 3000-5000 for the real thing.
This is true about the 303 market
Oh good, they also cloned my favorite Subharmon. feature: The "No Way To Run External Sound Through The Filter." 🤡
A spectravoxclone would've been nice since moog decided not to release it. But that's not how the Bman works is it?
🤑
That would be awesome
I have a Mother 32 and had a Crave. I was happy with the way that Crave sounded but the plastic buttons were really crappy in my opinion. The patch bay layout on the Crave was really unworkable for me.
Well, the SPICE will be available in about 2 years from its announcement, as usual.
I live outside the USA.my moog grandmother ended up costing me twice retail after fureardiabd customs and took months. I can have Behringers in three days at retail.
I’m planning on using the d ffam with spice..I really hope it sounds as good as the real thing as it sure doesn’t look as good
System 55 / ARP 2600. I could never afford a Moog System 55 or ARP 2600 but with Behringer clones it is possible. They may not be the same, but the fun factor is there for 1/4 the price. Behringer clones are a great investment for musicians. Maybe later down the road (when you become a super star) you can purchase the real thing. I was once on the fence about Behringer but now I can have clones of the synth I could only dream about owning. How cool is that.
I have both Moog and berhinger synths , Moog is top of the line synth for me , But sometimes I cant afford a Moog so I work with Behringer, Sometimes the Clone version is a good starting point . I do the same with my eurorack set up . Highend modules are great but if I have to go cheap then I will . It works for the time being the I can upgrade later . I have no beef with nighter of them .
behringer also cloned the granndmother. i got all three moogs when they came out, and the grandmother, and i was bummed when they made the sound studio without making all those extras available to everyone like me that already owned them. not even the mixer. I think they should have sent all those extras to everyone that already bought them. or at least have a. package of the games, and screwdriver, etc. but no. .
i bought the Behringer D when it came out and i love it. also bought the cat and the wasp clone. I will never have 5 grand to to spend on a synth like these, so it's nice to have these, i have all three in a stand like the moog stand, and they all look nice together. If I had the choice to go back, I probably wouldn't have bought any of those moogs. I play my sunphatty and subsequent 37 much more. thanks for your take on this,
I’m with you. They should’ve sold those kits with the power supply/ mixer and included additional things like the card game as a separate option to purchase for those who didn’t buy the bundle.
I use my matriarch more for my professional recordings. I mainly use the sound studio for messing around on and tutorials. One day I might sell mine. Time will tell.
I would love a Moog, or the setup you have there. But I would need to use that money for other things sadly... For now.
Yeah, my opinion is that it is basically 2 different markets. I have never heard, nor do i even expect to hear, of somone trading in all their Moog gear and canceling pre-orders so they can buy Behringer gear. I also can't see anyone trading in 12 Behringer synths to get a Moog. It's 2 different markets. I myself am a fan of both companies. I mostly have Behringer synths because it is what I can afford and I love having "vintage" synths that created so much of the music I grew up loving. I also own a Moog. It is my favorite synth. If there was a fire, it would be the one I grab first. Is that BECAUSE it cost more than any 2 of the others combined? Maybe 🤷 Just remember, the placeb effect is still an effect! When people think/feel that something is better because it is more expensive or rare, then it is. Thats how the brain works. To quote The Matrix "Your mind makes it real".
Synths where always expensive. Like pianos. At the beginning of the 20th century, there where many small companies building pianos. Then the production got industrialized, the pianos got cheeper and more people could buy one. In the end the small companies where extinct and a lot of knowledge got lost. I think that cloning a synth and putting a good pricetag on it is not the same thing as designing it. You do pay Moog also for their product development. I always felt like supporting Moog leads to new exiting products. In the end, I just hope that Moog can continue to develop products, that are "worth cloning".
Great post.
Sadly, most ppl only care about price. A lot of arguments in the video sound like apologies for ppl being fine with low morals when it suits them, calling out people who do care as moralists on a high horse. That one got my goat.
Reminds me of people calling vegetarians judgmental, when in reality it’s passive guilt that makes people hate vegetarians. Heck, people used to shame millennials for not buying cars, as if it was an insult to their way of life. People complain about price, when it’s exactly buying cheap crap that drives the price of those ‘unattainable’ items up. Some products are boutique because customers turning to mass produced make it boutique. Anyway, Moog isn’t cheap, but it’s not expensive either. Save up, stop buying new phones, take a break from daily luxuries, sacrifice a little, buy second hand. Buy one moog synth instead of three clone synths. It’s not complicated..