2013 Lincoln MKZ Parasitic Drain/Rear Gate Trunk Module (RGTM) No COM (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Thanks to all the comments on Part1 • 2013 Lincoln MKZ Paras... I am aware of the high failure rate of the RGTM. Regardless of common problems and silver bullet fixes, can you truly identify a bad module when you see one? Follow the steps in this video for ANY module on ANY car and you won't need the silver bullets to fix your cars. Of course, you should use them, but can you troubleshoot without them is the question!
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To the multiple people commenting that I should have loaded the powers and grounds on this module with some light bulbs, I want to tell you why I didn't and why I DO NOT carry around a bunch of different load, light bulbs around with me like a lot if you do.
Technically, with a dead module, there was no current flow, so you are not wrong in wanting to do that. My arguement against it and why I don't ever do this additional test in a case like this, is you are absolutely NOT going to have a wiring problem AND a dead module/component, that happens at the same time! It is one, or the other.
If by some chance, say 1 in 10,000, that you do, you fix the wire when you're done! After the module gets replaced and you can restore current flow, so you can now see the drop in voltage. Something you couldn't do with the component being bad/open. (why you guys love your light bulbs)
So I get the idea, I get the need to want to load circuits and carry a bunch of different brightness light bulbs around, but it is overkill, it's not needed.
Here is a question for you guys:
During my KOEO, connector plugged in, backprobing tests of the powers and ground. If there was a power feed problem, what would it have looked like? If there was a ground problem, what would it have looked like?
One more, if you want to argue that there could be a wiring problem, was it a wiring problem that was causing our no com and completely dead inputs and outputs? Not a chance. So dead module right? But you say we could still have a wiring problem because you didn't load the circuit. My reply. It doesn't happen, the module, motor, light bulb, solenoid etc etc does not fail at the exact same time you have a wiring problem.
Now I'm sure one of you will have some obscure example of an electric motor failing from low voltage from a poor power feed. My reply to that? Did it need a motor still? Sure did. And when you're done, you find the pump runs but psi is low and then you find your wiring issue and fix it! You still needed a pump! You 100% confirmed the motor was open (12v on the feed and 0 on the ground). So yeah, that 1 car out of 10,000 bit you, but it was never a bad call, it was two separate issues. This just doesn't happen people. It doesn't
Quick question, wouldn't it have been possible if there was a short in one of the sub components (lid switch, lid motor/strike motor), you may have seen higher voltage in the CAN system because the 12v power would be looking for somewhere to go. Also you could have unplugged those (you did most of them except the switch and latch in the lid) and see if 12v returns. Just simple unplug it in those components. Just trying to expand my knowledge!!
ScannerDanner meant to say "could you have" not "you could have" it was a question.
@@igotaction we had good 12v supplies and ground coming into the module itself, unplugging components on this computer system would not have help us in this situation.
A short in a switch input, only affects that one circuit. A short in one of the outputs, again, only affects that one circuit. A shorted reference circuit (5v ref) is a different story and that was not an issue here either as a shorted reference would not affect output voltage levels.
Boom, roasted !
@@igotaction great observations! Switch input circuits are isolated with current limiting resistors and will never cause other circuit problems within the computer system when they get shorted or open. Now a pressure sensor, hall effect and a potentiometer would be a different story. These can short and take out the reference circuit (usually 5v)
Now I really want to see the video with the airbags going off. ;-)
It doesn't exist, just pieces of it and the lesson was definitely learned here, sorry my friend
@@ScannerDanner oh, okay. Hope it didn't turn out as bad as it looked :(
@@blockbertus i'm thinkin trip to the laundromat !!!
It was every bit as bad as it looked 🤣
@@ScannerDanner happened to me once, scariest thing ever, the amount it cost me to repair was the second scariest.
Very nice but I am looking for the Airbag deployment video ;)
How lazy are people getting that they can't close their own trunk lol
It's a luxury car thing, power trunks/lift gates have been a thing for some time.
@@bradnoyes7955 for people with more money than brains.
ruclips.net/video/q-4U0lNBaS0/видео.html the time frame where I blow up an airbag
Thanks to all the comments on Part1 ruclips.net/video/0wV7VE4eDak/видео.html I am aware of the high failure rate of the RGTM. Regardless of common problems and silver bullet fixes, can you truly identify a bad module when you see one? Follow the steps in this video for ANY module on ANY car and you won't need the silver bullets to fix your cars. Of course, you should use them, but can you troubleshoot without them is the question!
ScannerDanner Ok this answers my question. Great video 🤙🏼
Since you are experienced with air bag module.... you should do a video on what and what not to do with airbag modules. Great video Paul ! Thanks!!
Thanks for NOT being a parts changer and doing the proper diagnostics. That's why we trust you with our vehicles and love your channel. Great video.
Wheres the airbag video?
With the right tools communication faults are extremely easy to diagnose. All you need is a halfway decent scope, a multimeter, a wiring diagram, component location diagrams, years of experience, a fair amount of intelligence, a logical troubleshooting process and a lot of determination.
So, what I'm saying is, yes, it's worth the hour of diag I'm charging you...
Well done sir.
I wish I had that module board in my hands to play with. The only thing I enjoy more than automotive electrical diagnostics is board repair. I’m no Dave Jones, but I can diagnose and replace bad components. It’s when I have to get a computer involved that I start struggling. I’m getting there though.
to be continued? you killing me Paul? lol, can you let us know whatever happens to that one so we can all sleep in peace. just kidding, thanks for the videos
"I dont care that the key is on, is not an airbag module" hahahahhahaahhah
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Out
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
📷 man got the eyes for 🎥 🎞 thank you
📷 man
KNOWLEDGEABLE Sir ScannerDanner
Bottle of water 💧 very good for your body 💧 Sir ScannerDanner
Take care and have a great day Sir ScannerDanner
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
I own a copy of your book Paul , and along with the videos these tools are priceless!!!
Just watched part #1 yesterday. Thanks guys.
Another great diagnose,awesome work 👍
2 important Questions: 1) How do you overlay the scope screen over your video feed? That's really cool. More importantly: 2) Anyone ever mention that you sound like Lars Ulrich from Metallica?
Rube Goldberg machine for sure
Who is that?
www.connectionsacademy.com/support/resources/article/build-your-own-rube-goldberg-machine
11:57 Airbag test
at 22:20, when you mention if the cinching striker is operable, quick check is to see if it moves up and down when you were simulating the latch closing with a screwdriver. The power striker would likely still need to be plugged into the PDL module but probably should still trigger.
2016 jeep p01d73 the custumer hit a dog but didn't tell her husband I scanned the code looked at it and dang It needs to go to a real body shop . the new jeeps have a lot of weird stuff thks danner
Thanks Paul like always great information hope you and your family are are doing well in this time
Omg I haven't seen that video yet .. dam that's a scary experience. Wow.
Paul, regards the clip with the airbag module, did the airbags deploy when you touched the module ? Also did you put this video out. Stay safe brother .Regards Joe
Thank you very much for providing this content for free. It is of great value.
Cut off the wire from the module can high and can low to see if there’s any signal from the module itself.
Thanks again Paul I hope you and your family are well, a big hug.
30:18 It could just be flux cleaner residue from manufacture.
30:34 Those are typical lead free solder joints even a good joint will look cloudy like that which is why they are so difficult to inspect. If that was a leaded joint then yes that would be a bad cold joint.
ok paul correct me if i'm wrong. you got powers and grounds and with it unplugged you have network. so if we were to de-pin the two network wires and plug them back in and operate a function that the scanner shows a pid for if the modules can interface was working we'd see activity coming out of the module showing the status change and lack of would definitely condemn it. i was thinking about this when you were showing the light operation by the switch but as you said it may also be controlled somewhere else. partially failed modules and intermittent modules are fun aren't they?
Yes, if you were to de-pin the 2 network wires, and measure on the module side, you would see CAN messages coming from the module itself if it was talking. It may look a little funny though without the terminating resistors, but it would be there.
now send that bad module to MR Carlson's Lab and he will tell us what went wrong with it and or redesign the entire module ha ha
we all beat our heads on the frame paul will show us the way at the end my solus is a 16.0 needing it up dated who to call
do not be a parts changer. fix the electronic trunk module. =)
Yo Caleb that’s cool be fun for your dad from Aleskyfinis
Another super video. Great job Kalib.
You’ll be careful day bag down Paul Dano be careful man wow
damn danner I got to get caught up on your scanner danner I sub to you and kelph
It would be nice if they used the same acronyms on the schematics and the module labels: Schematic = RGTM for "Rear Gate Trunk Module", label on module PDLM/PLGM for "Powered Deck Lid Module/Powered Lift Gate Module"
Right? And then I end up calling it all of those names, confusing the hell out of everyone
I need some advice please!! My car is identical to the Lincoln that SD just did. I had the battery replaced at Sam's club a month ago. A few days later I had to check engine light in my car wouldn't start with the push button. I then began getting several communication issue codes. Last week they told me that I needed to replace the fuse box under the hood. I went to pick up my car todayand now they are telling me that I need to replace the PCM and BCM!! How can a computer and 2 fuse boxes fail simultaneously? It's at the dealer, I don't have $2000, and none of this makes any sense. Could someone who knows this stuff please give me some advice? Thanks
Sounds like someone does not know what they are doing to me
Another great video.
Thanks Mr. Danner
"I see no water in there... NOOP"
-ScannerDanner
Remember boys and girls, a subscription to the Scanner Danner premium channel is only $11 a month. Sign up now and all proceeds go to help Paul pay off a few new air bags and a headliner....I probably shouldn't have this kind of fun at your expense. I'm gonna drop a car off my hoist now. I'll get back to you as soon as I'm fired. Then you can make me a new video on how not to drop a car off a lift.
😂😂 I'm dying. Just showed this comment to Caleb too.
Visit the Ford Tech Makuloko RUclips channel for more on the diagnosis of this commonly failed module
great guy and talented as well!
I hope God bless you and your family
I use a bright test light to use as a load to test for powers and grounds, as voltage testing isn't a good indicator if a connection is capable of carrying a current.
I understand the need to want to do this step. It's just not necessary to do here. Unless we want to argue that the module is bad at the same time we have a wiring problem.
You are not wrong in wanting to do that btw
I can understand why you would want to use a test light here, because a dead module will not draw any current to load the circuit, and I can understand why it wasn’t done because the module is plugged in and is the load. Like Paul said the only way to get burned here is to have a dead module and a faulty power feed, ground, ect..... at the same time and that is possible but extremely highly unlikely and almost never ever gonna happen, now that I say that it will happen lol
i have a parasitic drain. an ex named beth.
12 min. in that is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There a lots of people that should say "Thank you very much" Don't get this twisted, I would not(never) laugh at you for this but this is HIGHLY educational.
You are awesome always like a boss
Guys please could you give me a good website where I can find wiring diagrams for European Cars? I know a good website (autodata) but unfortunately it is for the UK cars..! Any help??
Really interesting video, Paul. Since I live in Pittsburgh and work for PAT at SHV, the next time I need a mechanic (I do a lot of my own repairs and maintenance), I'll be stopping at Jim's shop. Thanks for all you and Caleb do to produce these videos. I know there's a lot involved. NOTE: AVE calls that "Concussive Trouble-shooting and Repair"... ;-)
Nice job Paul I’m fighting hands free trunk assist on a 14 bmw 328D and I’m testing now and thinking the upper of lower sensor is bad. I need to figure out how to test them. Not much data on them and wire diagrams are bad.
Good video guys. You sure this isn't a Keith Defazio BMW water project LOL. Paul let us know the results if you can Artie stay well guys Artie ❤️
Don't forget to always test powers and grounds with the circuits loaded (such as with a test light). In this case, the module likely is faulty, but it never hurts to be 100% sure. It would suck if the root cause was a corroded terminal in a connector located further back in the trunk caused by the water intrusion.
airbag systems, says "BOOM in yo face" lolol. that is what I'm always afraid of on them piles of magical junk protection systems, as stiff fart knocking them off
Just saw FordTechMakuloco do one of these. Says it’s pretty common.
Awesome information as always brother . Stay safe during this flu event . God bless
Put that airbAg video up on pay-per-view.
😊....glad u guys werent hurt.
Several comments,great job Caleb with filming and editing,entertaing as always the way it's presented,great interaction with your brother Danner,would love to see a day in the shop video with you and Caleb hanging out for the day if you have the time.
Can you put the link of the deployed airbag(cut short clip in this videos) video here... please
there is no link, that video was not produced yet
@@ScannerDanner but when I feel myself in that situation OMG how I gonna handle the customer for my fault 😂 😂
My new book should be here in the mail by friday yahoo! Cant wait im chomping at the bit ! Im hungry!
What was with the 2 second shot of the air bag deployment? I must have missed something
Can't find that relay circuit tool any were
AESwave makes it and it is on backorder
All good stuff
210 like y contando. ¿por que se abrieron los airbag?
Will you continue if you sell the job? Don't leave us hanging!!
Yes sir, heading back to my brothers shop on Wednesday to film the module replacement and programming
Can't wait!
Hope you and your family stay healthy.
I badly want to see the air bag video, even if it is only bits and pieces.
thanks for video. i was desperately waiting for this part2. i have issue with same car up model 2015 mkz hybrid. MS(medium speed) can system is down for few modules and in one of down systems is trunk module. on MS can low and high i get 0.5 volts and jumping to .75 to 0. but its erratic. Another problem with this model is that CAN splices (they call it splice module) are awful. no comm. with hvac module, trunk module, front control interface module. i am stuck at a splice module 42( which i can't find in alldata). because i have comm. with radio transceiver module(rtm) but no comm. with rear gate trunk module.( i am also using snapon triton d8)
UPDATE.. Finally found the problem. Medium speed can wire found corroded under the carpet behind driver seat. my guess is that someone spilled water on carpet and water went into that connector. as i connected wires everything was back to normal.
15:00 could we just unplug the module as see if the light will come on and off, which will indicate if it's controlled by BCM of this module?
I just needed to check another diagram. Just didn't feel it was necessary for this case study. But you are like me, I wanted to know anyway 😃
Well that escalated quickly, that’s crazy glad you’re safe.
Finally! I was waiting for this one! Thank you, man!
FordTechMakuloco says the module only needs reprogramming. see his youtube video?
This module was completely dead. You cannot program a dead module. Must be the intermittent drain that he was talking about for the reprogram.
I spent years at a dealership. The way Honda wanted the techs to diagnose network faults was with continuity testing. The dealership didn't have a scope, nor did anyone know how to use one. Not sure why dealerships don't encourage the use of scopes. It's the single most useful tool when diagnosing network malfunctions. How the hell else do you confirm network data traffic on a data line?
GooE because dealerships (most) 99% do not have techs with this knowledge or ability to perform these tests
Thank you Danners Inc. Have a blessed and safe week.
Wow. Paul your videos have come a long way since April 2011. Same great content but better cameraman and camera. Nice job Paul and Caleb!
Caleb has been a game changer
Was the water intrusion ever addressed? I'd be weary of installing a new module if I thought they keep going for a swim back there. Stay safe!
Yes, the water intrusion was because the trunk was not closed all the way (part 1)
I liked seeing the extra steps to be as sure as possible that the module was actually dead. It's never easy to make the call on a bad module... especially when they are expensive. Another clue, when you're not sure that you can believe your no comm with the scan tool, is that other modules reported not being able to communicate with it as well. Great video as always!
That is correct my friend. I believe I showed that part? I think the instrument cluster told us the rear gate module wasn't talking.
stay home stay safe and save others good job sir
Did not here anything after bag blew.
Call it - bad module. Glad you took the steps to check and double check but at some point you have to make a decision and not continue to spend time that you may not recover from customer.
In the real world, yes. But I don't live in that world, and to show additional steps that can be taken to help someone make a call on a bad module, is important for me to show. Especially if that module is a few thousand dollars! There are not enough tests to show in a case like that, wouldn't you agree?
Great lesson. Thanks for the video
Way to go SD! Your shinning like one of your test lights. Thanks again for quality content.
If I was a young man looking for quality skills that will provide a good income in difficult times, I'd either be in your school or learning all about community farming (or both).
Nice job, lots of diag info!
Sorry if I missed something, but it's unclear whether disconnecting the module and other components eliminated the parasitic draw.
On the subject of signals on the CAN bus; CAN signal decoders have been available for a while now. Knowing the CAN address of each module, one could determine whether a particular module is transmitting on the bus or not. Do you know of any such usable equipment/information becoming available anytime soon?
In part 1, we could not recreate the parasitic drain. Through the comments, I found out there is a TSB on reflashing the rear trunk module for this exact issue. But ours was dead when we started testing it. So a new module and the updated flash will fix this thing.
As for a signal decoder, in our case, there were other modules that confirmed the no com with the rear gate or trunk module. In my opinion, that is all you need. In other words, that is my signal decoders. The other modules
@@ScannerDanner I meant the decoder question to be generic, not necessarily as it applies to this case.
Thanks for taking so much time to answer all our questions, it's appreciated. Stay well.
Thanks for sharing SD👍, much awaited case study👨🏻🔧
You're Awesome, stay Safe & stay Blessed🙏
One question, how to find an electrical fault without having access to a wiring diagram or any other service info?
Can be done in some scenarios, but it most modern cases it's not possible
If I don't have a diagram, I'm not working on it.
Great stuff as always Paul & Caleb! I've yet to be faced with calling any module, but I would have lacked the confidence to call one before I found both your Premium Channel, and the RUclips channel. 👍
That trunk was a mini greenhouse! A little sunlight and you'd have had a whole ecosystem living in there, LOL! Like the '92 940 I have here - I dropped a tree on it, and bashed in a corner of the rear glass. Water flows right in. There's all kinds of greenery popping out of the swampy carpet. 🤣
Holy CRAP dude! That side-curtain airbag blast clip made me a bit jumpy! I can't even imagine how that was being RIGHT THERE! That happened just from plugging in the airbag module? WOW!! 😲 Great lesson for everyone there!
It happened from unbolting and rotating the module (jumper wire connected to the housing to give it a ground). See, the engineers were smart, unbolt the module and you lose the main ground, but then "smart guys" like me figure that out and then give it a ground so I can test things live. Problem then was, I didn't know the module contains and internal roll over sensor. And there was the fatal error
@@ScannerDanner - AHH, thank you for that explanation!! I would have never known that in a million years. I watched it a few times after I made my comment, and I started to think just static from your hands set it off. Thanks for clearing that up!
I'm thinking the price tag on that one was just as scary as the blast 2" from your skull. Sorry, brother!! 😵 I'd imagine programming was involved for the new parts as well. :(
@@SmittySmithsonite I'm going to to something with that video. There are lessons to be learned for sure
@@ScannerDanner - Cool, Paul - I'll be watching for that one. Thanks again!
Caleb could wear a headset so he can hear your audio problems in real time
First time using this camera, we had a few audio issues. We will continue to strive for perfection and having Caleb with a headset on is on the list! Thank you!
Another great video!
Good stuff buddy, it'll be just typical for the customer to decide not to spend the money.
I think we will be able to get a final. I hope so
@@ScannerDanner : Looking forward to it 👍
Did you ever find out where the water came from?
Yes, the trunk was not shutting all the way
Vocês são muitos lokos hahahahah.
At least tell us the reason for air bag deployment to take care while diagnose, I suggest you make a video about how to avoid critical issues while diagnosing
I certainly will my friend
The Airbag Module has a multi-axis accelerometer in it, when he rotated the module, it probably 'detected' the vehicle was rolling over, and deployed the curtain airbags to protect the occupants, exactly as it was supposed to, the module doesn't know it wasn't bolted down so it 'assumed' the vehicle had suddenly rolled over.
Yes sir. HUGE lesson learned on that one
How did the airbags deployed?
I'm going to put out a video on this soon.
Darn didn't get to a fix we got to know now
Coronavirus interfered, car is still at his shop, waiting for an okay
DED!!. Dead
I would check again the 2 power wires with a test light just to be sure.
He could have, however, he checked those power feeds by back probing and it was plugged in, therefore there was current flow on the circuit so the measurements were already accurate enough to pinpoint a voltage drop. You dont need to use a test light if its back probed and current flow is occurring
sabin technically, with a dead module, there was no current flow, so @Alex Mironov is not wrong in wanting to do that. My arguement against it and why I don't ever do this additional test in a case like this is you are absolutely NOT going to have a wiring problem and a dead module/component that happens at the same time.
If by some chance, say 1 in 10,000, that you do, you fix the wire when you're done. After the module gets replaced and you can restore current flow, so you can see the drop.
So I get the idea, I get the need to want to load circuits and carry a bunch of different brightness light bulbs around, but it is overkill, it's not needed.
Here is a question for you guys:
During my KOEO, connector plugged in, backprobing tests of the powers and ground. If there was a power feed problem, what would it have looked like? If there was a ground problem, what would it have looked like?
One more, if you want to argue that there could be a wiring problem, was it a wiring problem that was causing our no com and completely dead inputs and outputs? Not a chance. So dead module right? But you say we could still have a wiring problem because you didn't load the circuit. My reply. It doesn't happen, the module, motor, light bulb, solenoid etc etc does not fail at the exact same time you have a wiring problem.
Now I'm sure one of you will have some obscure example of an electric motor failing from low voltage from a poor power feed. My reply to that? Did it need a motor still? Sure did. And when you're done, you find the pump runs but psi is low and then you find your wiring issue. You still needed a pump! You 100% confirmed the motor was open (12v on the feed and 0 on the ground). So yeah, that 1 car out of 10,000 bit you, but it was never a bad call, it was two separate issues. This just doesn't happen people. It doesn't
I understand, thank you for answering and explaining.
I hope you were wearing brown pants with that airbag module! is that video on RUclips or is it a scannerdanner premium video?
It is still in the vault lol
@@ScannerDanner (locked in a vault) That's probably good as I'm sure we would smell something very sour after that bag blew...Lol
Dang, that's some scary crap for sure. So, lesson is key off before plugging in a airbag module.?!
Is that what you did or what? It looked as tho you had just tossed it to the floor when it went off. 😬
@@exmotorsports I only rotated it. That's all I did smh (of course I had it unbolted)
@@ScannerDanner Oh man...That sucks.! Sorry to hear that Bro. I'll definitely watch what I do with them anymore. See....I'm still learning my friend, always learning. You should do some kind of video clip about that on the premium channel. We all can learn from that. 😉👍
Agree
wow what happens in 12:00 minutes?
I blew up some airbags by rotating the module with the key on (rollover sensor is in the module)
@@ScannerDanner Wow!!! I would never have thought of that. Thanks for sharing that, it's worth gold. (BTW, I suspect you'll be seeing a lot of comments referring to the airbag incident in the future. No one's going to forget it, it's everyone's worst nightmare!)
💦💦💦 in the trunk🤔🤔🤔 this guy was carrying 💦💦💦cases to get ready for covid-19😂😂😂
☆☆☆☆☆!
30:17 (in red box) top right pad has a "cold solder" ring appearance...