The Vulture was in the Spider-man 4 script, which includes the Vulture being Mary Jane's father. So the reason why the homecoming Vulture seems like a Raimi villain, is because he IS a Raimi villain.
Full Fat Videos yeah, if he didn’t pretend it was an accident, what would his crew think? They’d think he was a intentional murderer and they’d probably try to leave, something Vulture couldn’t afford. He HAD to pretend it was an accident
Yeah Vulture was (when Homecoming came out), and still is, one of my favourite MCU villains. He has depth, motivations, family, cunning, stupidity, empathy, sympathy and a worthy opponent.
Quantum Fuzion Animations I mean fair enough but it’s not stupid. It’s “one of my favourites”, it’s similar to algebra. It’s just specifying my favourites is x amount. If I had a specific number I’d say my, for example, 4th favourite
Vulture was also neat in the context of the MCU because starting as a "blue collar" kind of guy, he was different from the other outcasts, rich guys, tyrants and robots that came before him. Treating villainy as a 9-5 job for himself was called refreshingly different by some critics at the time. And his wanting to steal stuff is clearly different from creators and destroyers in the normal MCU mold. Plus, those wings were sweet. Even though it would be pure wish fulfillment, I would've loved to see the Vulture fight The Falcon to see which winged warrior was the mightiest of the MCU.
Vulture's suit and weapon are stronger, but the Falcon has way more training and some useful gadgets like Redwing and those missiles. I think it would be a close call, with Falcon coming out on top.
@Eric Wu I think that The Vulture would win because his wings look a lot faster then Falcons so all he would really have to do is catch him from above then slam him to the ground. Falcons a regular human so it would most likely kill him.
@@misterproject8 I think we need to remember Falcon is both more versatile and flexible and built for combat. The vulture costume isn't actually meant for direct combat.
One thing I love about keatons vulture is the costume. The inclusion of the bomber jacket and fighter pilot style helmet gives off this suggestion that he likely served in the air force. Couple that with his "we fight their wars" line, and it paints a picture of a veteran who doesn't feel that he has received his dues.
Excellent analysis! I'm surprised you didn't talk about how beautifully his costume reflects his personality: - His bomber jacket and trousers, inspired by WWII-era fabrics, showcase his old-fashioned sensibilities - He wants to stay under the radar, so he primarily wears dark colors - He utilizes the advanced technology he steals in his own arsenal, and every gadget serves a purpose, showing that he's more concerned with practicality than theatricality; differently from villains like Mysterio Blades on the wings to snap cables holding things in place, talons on the feet to carry heavy loads, an exoskeleton to support both the weight of his transport and the weight of those giant wings; the suit is a work of art. Guess this just goes to show how much other great stuff there is to talk about!
@@thecrimsoncommando3875 Yeah, suits are usually so cheesy. Like female armor in videogames, brass bikini that needs plot armor to actually work. The functional suits are always a breath of fresh air.
I just remembered in the end of Spider-Man 3 when Sandman/Flint says "I didn't choose to be this" and that's very true for the villains in the previous films as well. Doc Ock and Green Goblin initially became what they were purely as a result of accident/error. They changed and became monsters against their own will, they were left stuck with their mutated selves so they became what they thought they had to be because their physical condition compelled them so. Damn, Raimi's Spider-Man films had so much depth.
However, at the same time, those errors brought out feelings they've held the entire time. Norman saying "back to formula" before murdering the doctor mirrors when he quietly scolds him earlier with the same words. Otto's ambition for his goals and negligence for human life is shown when no one is given protective gear during his failed test, and how he yells at spiderman to not unplug the machine
@Christian Tompkins noo Osborne had a choice he had voices in his head he chose to go insane and doc oc had that chip Device on his neck the arms control his mind
@RoxanneZ I love spider man's villains but they are other villians out there name it thanos , dr savantan from shazam , joker , hela etc that also have depth not just raimi's
i never thought about how complex toomes is in homecoming - how he looks on the surface, how he thinks he looks and what he actually does are far away from eachother.
Anyone else have the moment of clarity I did one day? Where after thinking about how great Keaton was and him doing another winged super hero and crushing it months later thinking about the filn again and realizing.........Vulture. And he picks the old tech lying around like a , goddam thats good writing!
14:50 "Kill you dead." is a reference to the long-standing advert campaign for Raid brand insecticide, and their popularly recognized slogan, "Kills bugs dead." Sorry, but this is the second video I've seen where that clip is played and followed with Eitri mocking the line. It wasn't him being stupid, or using bad grammar, or putting up a blue-collar facade, it was a dad joke. Like, a grim one, but it was just an outdated reference.
I second the thanks for sharing this. I found the “working class” take to be borderline condescending. Not to say that there aren’t phrases that could operate as markers of class or upbringing, but this didn’t strike me as one of them, even without the context you explained.
@@mrsb50 I agree. It's literally emphasizing a threat. Adding the word "dead" digs it's way into the victims fears a little further. People fear death. Emphasizing their fear in a threat is a good way to make it stick, even it's just a reiterating what "I'll kill you" technically means.
I'm a little late but I do think it was more based on how the character talks, rather than a very specific reference or a dad joke. Maybe not for the "blue collar" part but it's in line with how the character speaks the whole movie
I never realized Norman had a split personality with Goblin until I rewatched the movie years later. Always thought he was tricking Peter before he died. I appreciate his character a lot more now
@James Sturm As he said in an interview, it was Dafoe's idea and he insisted to play more of the goblin himself (less double screen time) so he can add more personality and character touches to him. Very dedicated actor and one to admire especially at his age
I always thought goblin took advantage of a rookie parker who only became spiderman not too long ago. I always theorized that if norman went against spiderman 3 peter then he would only fare slightly better than harry and this is without the black suit. In the fight we saw peter unable to create distance and playing to the goblin's ground game which was superior. We also don't see any of the web balls or the web being used to manipulate the enviroment like we see during the end of the fight. Peter was unable to fight efficiency in cramp spaces as we see he is a lot more capable in spiderman 2 on the train and in spiderman 3 during the bank robbery. Notice how i didn't mention black suit parker.
Vulture definitely felt like Raimi villian...Especially when it's revealed that Adrian toomes is Liz's father and also when he threatens Peter in the car...and opening of the movie when we Adrian toomes contract is pulled from him because of stark...just like Norman's company is taken from him...
Danny Benhur Fun fact: Raimi was going to use the Vulture in his fourth Spiderman film. I’m sure his characterization would have look like what we saw in Spiderman: Homecoming.
I’d argue Vulture was basically a more grounded and symphatetic Green Goblin, in that he became evil so that he could continue to provide for his family whereas Goblin just plainly went batshit and turned into a classic mass murdering supervillain without a reasonable goal in his mind after he exacted revenge against his business mates.
@@rhetiq9989 Green Goblin is a straight up Psychopath...In the Board room scene..where he says "YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED" it's clear that he is a psychopath...What makes Vulture more sinister that...he is Psychopath disguised as a Family man...As He didn't hesitate to kill Spiderman under the rubble..a kid of an age of his own daughter...infact a kid who saved his daughter..Vulture simply gives himself reasons to do bad stuff...kills "shocker in the name of feeding his family..Well his reason is more practical than Norman. But Vulture, just like Norman, simply finds a reason to kill...while Norman's insanity is visible...Vulture's insanity isn't visible on the surface...he seems to be family man...but he is just as crazy as Norman....in other words Norman is Evil Rich Murderer..and Vulture is a middle class family-man murderer...
@@Christ2010Grad And I heard that in Sam Raimi's version Adrian Toomes was Mar Jane's father or something, so Marvel basically took the idea from Raimi's script.
From this video I feel like The Vulture's got a lot in common with Walter White. They both use their families as excuses to further their selfish desires and eventually end up getting greedy which leads to their downfall.
616 Adrian Toomes is not a cannibal Maybe your thinking about Jimmy Natale vulture or vulture from 2099 but the classic vulture is not that but is still a great villain for Spider-Man
I see Tombs not telling Scorpion the identity of Peter as more of the same thing he did during the car scene. Peter saved his daughter's life, so he gives Peter another chance. Peter saves his own life, so he doesn't reveal Peter's identity. This means that he could still be a villain in the Sinister Six considering his debt is paid.
Nicolás Paradoja Mysterio is much more of an Emperor Palpatine type of villain, rather than a Vader one His motivations don’t have much meaning and his m.o. is exaggeratedly cruel but he’s so entertaining and fun it doesn’t really matter
@@nicolasparadoja1443 mysterio is an amazing villain. Wut u talking about? The whole reason Mysterio became so powerful was peters fault and he needed to take responsibility for it.
I think the problem with Mysterio is that his motivation is more connected with Tony than Peter. So Spider-Man is left to clean up Ironman's mess yet again. Peter goes through the same arc just like in Homecoming. Proving himself, when he already did that in the last movie. They gotta get off this "next Ironman" thing.
Is no one going to talk about Homecoming's reference to the end of the original Green Goblin fight with the wings coming at him from behind and having to jump out of the way? I thought that was a sick nod to the original series and also a bit of a flex on the "level up" of the villains in this new Spiderman series - the Vulture doesn't kill himself with the wing trick, and he manages to survive the movie as a whole. IDK, just thought that whoever had that idea to add that bit deserves a raise lol
4 years* Avengers takes place in 2012, and Civil War takes place in 2016. Homecoming takes place 2 months after. So it’s at most 4.5 years later (Infinity War(which takes place 2 years after this) clears this up with Tony saying “Thanos has been in my head for 6 years”)
Another thing I like is that they lean into the vulture aesthetic in terms of character, his whole general is to pick off and steal tech to expand his business/wealth similar to how real vultures take the scraps of animals for food, it adds an extra layer to the vulture aesthetic as opposed to man in bird suit (I also love costuming decisions like having the vulture main/neck fluff be an aviator jacket or the aviation mask looking like a vulture head)
@@FullFatVideos i’ve been binging your videos last night, while i don’t agree with all your points, you put out a lot of good videos especially your Spider-Man 2/Whiplash one. that hit a little close to home.
The curious thing was that Toomes started out the movie trying to build something and then having it taken away before he could even profit from it, after already making the investment. Thus, not a parasite, but what his namesake is, is what he became. A scavenger.
Not really. Toomes wanted to do his work but was taken away from him because S.H.I.E.L.D. and Tony put themselves in charge of cleaning up which nearly ruined him.
I think that's one of the reasons why I enjoyed Homecoming so much, Vulture reminded me of the Green Goblin. Especially the scene where he gets his wings to attack peter from behind. Very reminiscent of Goblin's move to impale Spidey with his glider.
What i really enjoy about the Raimi Spiderman interpretation is how he added his horror talents to shine through in certain scenes. He also idk how to explain it or maybe its just the time period when it was made, but there's a gritiness or 'dirty' aspect to them. They felt more real world its not as polished which i really enjoy. oh and he made the best casting decision for J. Jonah Jameson peeeriod. xoxo
The Raimi villains where sympathetic (apart from Venom) and the MCU Spider-Man villains are some of the most sympathetic villains in the MCU. I think only really Zemo, Vulture, Loki, Thanos and now Mysterio achieved what those villains did, be sympathetic and/or relatable.
I 100% agree. Raimi and Watts delivered fantastic villains in their Spider-Man films and I can't wait for the future of Spider-Man in the MCU, also will continue to support and love the Raimi Spider-Man films as they are instant classics.
Definitely. Between these two series spiderman probably has the best cinematic representations of a comic book rogues gallery that we've seen so far. Green goblin, doc ock, sandman, vulture, mysterio, hell even kingpin was fleshed out in daredevil. Even with all the batman movies the only ones they made land imo were catwoman and joker.
@@Protocol36 I just love that they aren't just reusing the same villians over and over again. Not to keep disparaging batman, but how many live action jokers have we got? Two in TV shows, 3, soon to be 4 in movies? Three catwomen with a fourth coming in sirens? Same thing with superman always fighting zod or lex Luthor whenever they want to do anything with him. I love that even if you count the amazing spiderman films the only villain we see twice is harry Osborn's goblin. Plus they all have a twist that, at least in my opinion, makes them unique from their comic book counterpart and fit better on film without losing what made the character resonate. They even let mysterio keep his fishbowl!
So, the thing about the "fighting their wars" part, I doubt he was talking about how they are literally fighting aliens. Historically, the poor and impovrished always have fought the wars of elites. Just look to Vietnam for example, with the elite and wealthy able to draft doge and avoid it, while the poor are forced to join. I think with the Vulture's personality, he perhaps fought in Nam, it would give credence to his "Eat or be eaten" ideas when it comes to selling the tech. And even as he became richer, I doubt the mindset of his would change. He isn't an elite, he is just better off. The only reason he got better off wasn't from playing their shitty game, it was breaking the rules and working from outside.
I prefer this Vulture to any of the villains in all of the previous Spiderman live action movies. His motives were the most believable. While it is easy to see the flaws in his logic, it is also easy to see why he chooses not to see those flaws himself. Also, casting Birdman/Batman himself was freaking brilliant. Also, after seeing Tom Holland in SM:FFH, I can definitely say I hope he has a long career playing this character. Speaking of SM:FFH and brilliant casting, if you watch all the way to the end, you will see that once you cast the perfect actor, there is no reason to change.
Not to mention the incredible scene where he figures out Peter is spidey. By far the most intimating dialogue considering Toomes was just a dude with a Glock threating a super strong superhero. More fear instilled in me than all the Raime villains combined.
@@jimbo4908 its because you didn't grow up with them. Id be more afraid of green goblin than toomes. Toomes would be scary if he actually had beaten peter up. Actually make him realize he is a kid in a world of supermen.
@@albertotorres7746 lol you basically just used because you dont have nostalgia argument. Sorry man but that's a weak argument for what you're trying to say. And I love the raimi villains just as much as the mcu villains
@@albertotorres7746 my dude. I was 10 when Raimi's Spiderman came out. And I can wholeheartedly say Toomes made me clench up at 27 than The goblin at 10.
Vulture and Mysterio were both SPECTACULAR villains. I hope to God that they will be smart and *Spoiler* reveal Mysterio didn't die. After all, Edith didn't have control of the ORIGINAL drones.
grandpagohan1 mysterio still being alive kinda takes away from the mid credits scene. Having Peter think he won and the threat eliminated, then mysterio’s last card is to frame Peter as a terrorist and reveal his identity is a way better ending than that not being his last card and him being alive is his last card. Idk, maybe it was LOKI that kinda ruined this. While it makes sense for both characters to fake deaths, we already saw it 50 millón times with Loki and we don’t need to see that again with mysterio.
Sony: Are you going to make Spider-Man 4? Sam Raimi: You’ll get your Spider-Man 4 when Sony fixes this damn door! Sony never fixed it. Instead made Amazing Spider-Man.
Tombs was pretty smart and good with his hands. Stark would've probably gave him a job restoring and maintaining Stark tower and the later Avengers headquarters if he asked. He certainly had the tools and knowledge.
Toombs "kept Peter's secret" at the end of the movie because he's smart enough to know that anyone going after Spiderman is going to attack the people Spiderman/Peter loves. That would include Toombs' own daughter. So it was just another selfish act. Still love his character though, especially his consistency.
@@ryankeefe6222 I agree, I like the idea that the vulture ultimately wasn’t a *completely* horrible guy and ultimately didn’t want Peter dead since he saved his ljfe
From what I understand people see the movie as a step in the right direction after Spider-Man 3 and the two Amazing Spider-Man films but not on the same level as Spider-Man 2 or Spider-Verse. So sort of a decent middle ground of it not being the best Spider-Man or MCU film but still an enjoyable one none the less.
@@Deathlygunn i honestly don't get why people are praising Spider-verse, for me it was one of the worst movie experience - i literally almost walked out in the middle
Dude the scene of Harry’s death broke my heart when I saw it in the cinema back then. Without Sam Raimi being forced to put Venom in, this movie would have been a masterpiece. Still love it, don’t understand the hate
i also find it cool how many vulture metaphors there are in the film. the fact hes a scavenger, has a nest/lair, the green light when he finds out who spiderman is.
I grew up with the Raimi trilogy, and even with that my favorite Spider-Man ever is Tom Holland's. I'm just so grateful for these movies, they have come in a great moment in my life
I just noticed Venom shoots his webs out of the top of his wrist rather than the underside, and he makes a fist instead of the usual hand gesture spidey makes
Wow a 2 year old video with a title that very well could be fulfilled in 2021 and beyond. Don’t forget, we’ve seen the vulture in the morbius trailer along with a picture of our favorite Spider-Man. ❤️💙
I like how you point out that toomes is morally complex with a personal connection to the hero, and how unique that is unlike: Obadiah Stane Loki Ultron Killmonger The winter soldier Hela Yon-Rogg Yellowjacket Kaecilius Or, like, Ego. Dude's actual father.
the situation hela arose from is morally complex but she herself really isn't imo. she was a colonizer's weapon of war, then when she comes back she wants to reinstate that operation after centuries of historical revisionism. the complex part is moreso what that revelation means for thor and asgard as a whole.
@@AngryGodzillaBirds1 Yeah, I agree, but at the same time raimi's villains weren't all that morally complex either. They were portrayed as corrupted - 'possessed' by evil, but with some good part still inside. Like Vader. Remember when Lucas stole raimi's villians to make star wars?
I get the nostalgia people feel, but raimi's villians weren't special. They were externally motivated to the point of cliche. 'why is ___ evil?' 'oh, because the symbiote/the ai/vat of acid/etc.' Notably, those motivations don't need their own explanation. Vulture was internally motivated. Remove the wings, his motivations remain the same. He's 100% an MCU villain. For context, I grew up on Schumacher's batman. Loved them when I was a kid, but the best thing about them was the lens of childlike wonder I viewed them through.
Thanks for this. I've seen people say Homecoming is Classist because of Toomes being the bad guy, but without even meaning you've deconstructed said argument.
I’m a Spider-Man fan, since I was able to read, and I loved Homecoming It captured perfectly the feeling of those earlier stories, the struggles of high-school, the lighter tone, and the looking up to other heroes
simonegreco well I’m not saying Spider-Man fans can’t enjoy it. I’m just saying that it’s understandable why a lot of strictly Spider-Man fans didn’t like the movie all that much.
Rain Man I’ve listened to some of their opinions and while I’m not saying you have to like this movie, most of these people are just close-minded when it comes to HC and MCU Spider-Man in general, specifically to the Tony/Peter relationship
I've always felt that with the right offer this version of Vulture could of turned into a good guy working for Shield, or the Avengers as their logistics team.
alfa01spotivo I agree with you. A three dimensional villain doesn’t need to be sympathetic. Mysterio wasn’t as sympathetic as the Vulture, but I enjoyed him more.
Too Superior 2.0 I agree, homecoming has a better villain and slightly better humour while far from home has better action and story. Overall, I think far from home is better but there both great
The part when Aunt May's speech is put over the deaths of the Raimi villains really makes this video stand out, and makes that speech hit a lot harder.
Raimi's trilogy was shakespearian. That's why it worked. As much as I love the MCU, it wasn't so poetic in storytelling. It was more focused in giving nods and introducing characters. The older movies were stuck to a very good movie formula, similar to comics. The villains were grey and understandable, that's why The Vulture is so natural as a Raimi character.
4 years* Avengers takes place in 2012, and Civil War takes place in 2016. Homecoming takes place 2 months after. So it’s at most 4.5 years later (Infinity War(which takes place 2 years after this) clears this up with Tony saying “Thanos has been in my head for 6 years”)
The Raimi trilogy dis set the standard for superhero films, which is embracing the fact that heroes are stupid escapism fantasies and run with it in a way that makes the genre's ridiculous aspects a positive thing, it's the recipe the MCU has followed and it worked well. Other superhero movies like X Men were ashamed of the source material and actively avoided the cheesiness, it's why Wolvernine never wore the custome in any of the movies. The Dark Knight trilogy can hardly be called superhero movies honestly, they're actually police dramas that happen to have a ninja wearing a bat custome as the protagonist. That doesn't mean they're bad at all, if anything they stand out more because they deviated from the norm. The Dark Knight trilogy's prescedent that superheroes would be dark & gritty didn't last long, just take a look at Fant4stic and most of the DCEU, those movies tried too hard to be dark and came out as edgy egdelords.
I didn't realize that Homecoming had such a bad rap with some fans. To me it was like I finally saw the Spidey that I grew up with on screen. Tobey was a great Peter, Andrew was a great Spider-Man, but Tom IS Spidey. The best of both worlds. And the movie was just a blast of fun to reinvigorate the character and franchise. It might not have had the pathos of Spider-Man 2, but it still has a ton of heart. And I think all of that was topped in Far From Home.
He's not a Raimi villain, really. Raimi just perfectly captured what made Spider-Man villain origins work so well in the comics, and so did this movie.
Great vid! I think there can be some interesting points to be made about the development of the villains as well, as they were not all so vicious to begin with.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow that sequence at 8:40 is spectacular.
The Vulture was in the Spider-man 4 script, which includes the Vulture being Mary Jane's father.
So the reason why the homecoming Vulture seems like a Raimi villain, is because he IS a Raimi villain.
Even ultimate, or dare i say amazing?
That speech *still* hits me in the feels every single time I hear it.
That speech *still* hits me right in the feels every time I hear it.
That editing was fucking amazing
To be fair killing that goon was an accident. Though the lack of remorse says a lot.
I'm kinda unconvinced it even was an accident tbh - OH this was the gravity gun was it? convenient.
Full Fat Videos yeah, if he didn’t pretend it was an accident, what would his crew think?
They’d think he was a intentional murderer and they’d probably try to leave, something Vulture couldn’t afford. He HAD to pretend it was an accident
@@FullFatVideos I agree
@@FullFatVideos There is a deleted scene on the Blue-Ray where Vulture takes a moment outside to grieve after killing Shocker 1.0
I think the lack of anyone else giving a shit says a lot about Shocker.
Yeah Vulture was (when Homecoming came out), and still is, one of my favourite MCU villains. He has depth, motivations, family, cunning, stupidity, empathy, sympathy and a worthy opponent.
Agree with everything you just said
I hate the term 'one of'. One of what? One of 5? One of a hundred? One of a million? It's just stupid to me...
Quantum Fuzion Animations I mean fair enough but it’s not stupid. It’s “one of my favourites”, it’s similar to algebra. It’s just specifying my favourites is x amount. If I had a specific number I’d say my, for example, 4th favourite
@@qqqfuzion2582 sorry if you can't understand it
@@qqqfuzion2582 you know what I meant
Vulture was also neat in the context of the MCU because starting as a "blue collar" kind of guy, he was different from the other outcasts, rich guys, tyrants and robots that came before him. Treating villainy as a 9-5 job for himself was called refreshingly different by some critics at the time. And his wanting to steal stuff is clearly different from creators and destroyers in the normal MCU mold.
Plus, those wings were sweet. Even though it would be pure wish fulfillment, I would've loved to see the Vulture fight The Falcon to see which winged warrior was the mightiest of the MCU.
Vulture's suit and weapon are stronger, but the Falcon has way more training and some useful gadgets like Redwing and those missiles. I think it would be a close call, with Falcon coming out on top.
Falcon hands down. More agile, more combat training, and most importantly an unwavering captain america like fighting spirit inside him
@@rhetiq9989 And a new shield!
@Eric Wu I think that The Vulture would win because his wings look a lot faster then Falcons so all he would really have to do is catch him from above then slam him to the ground. Falcons a regular human so it would most likely kill him.
@@misterproject8 I think we need to remember Falcon is both more versatile and flexible and built for combat. The vulture costume isn't actually meant for direct combat.
One thing I love about keatons vulture is the costume.
The inclusion of the bomber jacket and fighter pilot style helmet gives off this suggestion that he likely served in the air force. Couple that with his "we fight their wars" line, and it paints a picture of a veteran who doesn't feel that he has received his dues.
Excellent analysis! I'm surprised you didn't talk about how beautifully his costume reflects his personality:
- His bomber jacket and trousers, inspired by WWII-era fabrics, showcase his old-fashioned sensibilities
- He wants to stay under the radar, so he primarily wears dark colors
- He utilizes the advanced technology he steals in his own arsenal, and every gadget serves a purpose, showing that he's more concerned with practicality than theatricality; differently from villains like Mysterio
Blades on the wings to snap cables holding things in place, talons on the feet to carry heavy loads, an exoskeleton to support both the weight of his transport and the weight of those giant wings; the suit is a work of art.
Guess this just goes to show how much other great stuff there is to talk about!
Actually, yeah, you're right. His costume really is good.
@@PengyDraws One of the best powered suit designs I've seen in cinema.
@@thecrimsoncommando3875 Yeah, suits are usually so cheesy. Like female armor in videogames, brass bikini that needs plot armor to actually work. The functional suits are always a breath of fresh air.
I just remembered in the end of Spider-Man 3 when Sandman/Flint says "I didn't choose to be this" and that's very true for the villains in the previous films as well. Doc Ock and Green Goblin initially became what they were purely as a result of accident/error. They changed and became monsters against their own will, they were left stuck with their mutated selves so they became what they thought they had to be because their physical condition compelled them so.
Damn, Raimi's Spider-Man films had so much depth.
However, at the same time, those errors brought out feelings they've held the entire time. Norman saying "back to formula" before murdering the doctor mirrors when he quietly scolds him earlier with the same words. Otto's ambition for his goals and negligence for human life is shown when no one is given protective gear during his failed test, and how he yells at spiderman to not unplug the machine
@@braydoboss4090 and hits Spidey with his robot arms when Spidey tries to stop it.
@Christian Tompkins noo Osborne had a choice he had voices in his head he chose to go insane and doc oc had that chip Device on his neck the arms control his mind
@Christian Tompkins oh yeah u right I'mma re watch the movie bro
@RoxanneZ I love spider man's villains but they are other villians out there name it thanos , dr savantan from shazam , joker , hela etc that also have depth not just raimi's
No one:
Vulture: Ya know, I’m something of a Raimi villain myself
😂😂😂
LMAO
Both of them: you know, I’m something of a terrible father myself
@@FullFatVideos do you think you can do a video for the MCU Spider-Man after he gets his third movie
@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 Umm..Umm...about that...
i never thought about how complex toomes is in homecoming - how he looks on the surface, how he thinks he looks and what he actually does are far away from eachother.
Anyone else have the moment of clarity I did one day?
Where after thinking about how great Keaton was and him doing another winged super hero and crushing it months later thinking about the filn again and realizing.........Vulture. And he picks the old tech lying around like a , goddam thats good writing!
14:50 "Kill you dead." is a reference to the long-standing advert campaign for Raid brand insecticide, and their popularly recognized slogan, "Kills bugs dead."
Sorry, but this is the second video I've seen where that clip is played and followed with Eitri mocking the line. It wasn't him being stupid, or using bad grammar, or putting up a blue-collar facade, it was a dad joke. Like, a grim one, but it was just an outdated reference.
Thanks for sharing this info. That line is sooo much better in context
I second the thanks for sharing this. I found the “working class” take to be borderline condescending. Not to say that there aren’t phrases that could operate as markers of class or upbringing, but this didn’t strike me as one of them, even without the context you explained.
@@mrsb50
I agree. It's literally emphasizing a threat. Adding the word "dead" digs it's way into the victims fears a little further. People fear death. Emphasizing their fear in a threat is a good way to make it stick, even it's just a reiterating what "I'll kill you" technically means.
Ik it's very cringe when people don't get it but think they do
I'm a little late but I do think it was more based on how the character talks, rather than a very specific reference or a dad joke. Maybe not for the "blue collar" part but it's in line with how the character speaks the whole movie
I never realized Norman had a split personality with Goblin until I rewatched the movie years later. Always thought he was tricking Peter before he died. I appreciate his character a lot more now
@James Sturm why do you hate it?
@James Sturm As he said in an interview, it was Dafoe's idea and he insisted to play more of the goblin himself (less double screen time) so he can add more personality and character touches to him. Very dedicated actor and one to admire especially at his age
No Way Home does imply that split personality as well.
7:33 Glad you mentioned that final fight scene. I love how raw that fight was, it was like you could feel each blow Peter took. It was utterly brutal.
still one of the best final fights in a superhero movie
Something that a lot of superhero and action films miss nowadays. Even something like John Wick feels kinda meh in that department.
@@brianj4201 John wick has always been trash
@@infamous1403 Not surprising you would say that, seeing as how you’re a MCU fan.
I always thought goblin took advantage of a rookie parker who only became spiderman not too long ago. I always theorized that if norman went against spiderman 3 peter then he would only fare slightly better than harry and this is without the black suit. In the fight we saw peter unable to create distance and playing to the goblin's ground game which was superior. We also don't see any of the web balls or the web being used to manipulate the enviroment like we see during the end of the fight. Peter was unable to fight efficiency in cramp spaces as we see he is a lot more capable in spiderman 2 on the train and in spiderman 3 during the bank robbery. Notice how i didn't mention black suit parker.
Vulture definitely felt like Raimi villian...Especially when it's revealed that Adrian toomes is Liz's father and also when he threatens Peter in the car...and opening of the movie when we Adrian toomes contract is pulled from him because of stark...just like Norman's company is taken from him...
Danny Benhur Fun fact: Raimi was going to use the Vulture in his fourth Spiderman film. I’m sure his characterization would have look like what we saw in Spiderman: Homecoming.
I’d argue Vulture was basically a more grounded and symphatetic Green Goblin, in that he became evil so that he could continue to provide for his family whereas Goblin just plainly went batshit and turned into a classic mass murdering supervillain without a reasonable goal in his mind after he exacted revenge against his business mates.
@@rhetiq9989 I agree with you...In fact Vulture is a good father...Goblin is worst father...
@@rhetiq9989 Green Goblin is a straight up Psychopath...In the Board room scene..where he says "YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED" it's clear that he is a psychopath...What makes Vulture more sinister that...he is Psychopath disguised as a Family man...As He didn't hesitate to kill Spiderman under the rubble..a kid of an age of his own daughter...infact a kid who saved his daughter..Vulture simply gives himself reasons to do bad stuff...kills "shocker in the name of feeding his family..Well his reason is more practical than Norman. But Vulture, just like Norman, simply finds a reason to kill...while Norman's insanity is visible...Vulture's insanity isn't visible on the surface...he seems to be family man...but he is just as crazy as Norman....in other words Norman is Evil Rich Murderer..and Vulture is a middle class family-man murderer...
@@Christ2010Grad
And I heard that in Sam Raimi's version Adrian Toomes was Mar Jane's father or something, so Marvel basically took the idea from Raimi's script.
Full Fat: Shows footage of Goblin, Doc Ock, Harry, and Sandman for Raimi villains
Venom: *Am I a joke to you?*
Everyone: Yes.
What about venom? Did you give him a chance??? DID YOU!!??
Well it’s not like he wanted Venom
Pea Wea “I miss the part where Venom’s my problem.”
@@Djimbo You're trash Cyber.
Pea Wea I offered your friendship, and you spat in my face.
Before Homecoming I didn’t think twice about The Vulture, now he’s one of my favorite Spider-Man villains.
I love the parallel of “Vulture” leading a “salvage” company
From this video I feel like The Vulture's got a lot in common with Walter White.
They both use their families as excuses to further their selfish desires and eventually end up getting greedy which leads to their downfall.
yes exactly! nice comparison
You're right! That reminds me, it's strange that Cranston hasn't been in an MCU film yet.
@@troyjardine5850 Cranston as Dr. Doom?
You're goddamn right.
Imo Vulture was not selfish.
Yes, the vulture is a sympathetic villain much better than his cannibalistic comic book counterpart.
I thought it was only 2099 Vulture who had cannibalistic tendancies.
@@thefroknight3149 I remember his Noir counterpart eating people too.
@@fiendwithoutaface6833 That was how Ben died in that universe
616 Vulture is not a cannibal
616 Adrian Toomes is not a cannibal Maybe your thinking about Jimmy Natale vulture or vulture from 2099 but the classic vulture is not that but is still a great villain for Spider-Man
I see Tombs not telling Scorpion the identity of Peter as more of the same thing he did during the car scene. Peter saved his daughter's life, so he gives Peter another chance. Peter saves his own life, so he doesn't reveal Peter's identity. This means that he could still be a villain in the Sinister Six considering his debt is paid.
I always piss myself at the end of spider-man 1 when peter hits the ground and lets out that squeal 😂😂
Professor Duckford images you can hear
Seriously haha always makes my day
UrEAAAAA
10:13
He’s just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
He can also fly.
Vulture=Jango Fett confirmed.
isn't he aquaman's daddy tho
@@FullFatVideos And Vulture is Batman. It all comes full circle
@@_the_rizzler Mark Hamil also voiced the Joker, meaning it goes double circle
@@thatguywhosayshi7021 Woah, this is wild
I need that Mysterio essay
legasy825 Join the club.
really appreciate your enthusiasm guys - gonna make sure its a doosey!
You now have mate... after 9 months...
So what you mean is marvel has captured what made rami villains so great
@Sebi idk man, I felt Parker learnt nothing
@laz kar What did he learn in Far From Home that he didn't in Homecoming already?
Nicolás Paradoja Mysterio is much more of an Emperor Palpatine type of villain, rather than a Vader one
His motivations don’t have much meaning and his m.o. is exaggeratedly cruel but he’s so entertaining and fun it doesn’t really matter
@@nicolasparadoja1443 mysterio is an amazing villain. Wut u talking about? The whole reason Mysterio became so powerful was peters fault and he needed to take responsibility for it.
I think the problem with Mysterio is that his motivation is more connected with Tony than Peter. So Spider-Man is left to clean up Ironman's mess yet again. Peter goes through the same arc just like in Homecoming. Proving himself, when he already did that in the last movie. They gotta get off this "next Ironman" thing.
If they ever put the green goblin into the mcu, I'd love to see Willem Defoe recast as him
It appears you got you're wish.
@@omegavsrassilon5128 2 years later lol
You saw the future
He is
Yer a prophet, Harry!
Is no one going to talk about Homecoming's reference to the end of the original Green Goblin fight with the wings coming at him from behind and having to jump out of the way? I thought that was a sick nod to the original series and also a bit of a flex on the "level up" of the villains in this new Spiderman series - the Vulture doesn't kill himself with the wing trick, and he manages to survive the movie as a whole. IDK, just thought that whoever had that idea to add that bit deserves a raise lol
didnt realize that lol
A surprise to be sure but a welcomed one
Master Toomes, I must say you’re here sooner than expected
I love that Raimi's Spider-Man film masterpieces are still talked about
forever
@@FullFatVideos forever×2
sorry if that was cheesy
Yeah all THREE of them
The things I would do to get a Spider-Man 4 and have them properly wrap up the story.
6 years later?
Thought it was 4 ?
Civil war takes place in 2016 right?
Continuity gives me a headache.
Blame Sony lol
Sony’s the issue, the Russo Brothers have blatantly said that the 8 years later was wrong.
civil war does indeed take place in 2016
Yeah, homecoming takes place in 2016 as it is 2-3 months after Civil War (which is around 4 years after the battle of New York)
4 years* Avengers takes place in 2012, and Civil War takes place in 2016. Homecoming takes place 2 months after. So it’s at most 4.5 years later (Infinity War(which takes place 2 years after this) clears this up with Tony saying “Thanos has been in my head for 6 years”)
Another thing I like is that they lean into the vulture aesthetic in terms of character, his whole general is to pick off and steal tech to expand his business/wealth similar to how real vultures take the scraps of animals for food, it adds an extra layer to the vulture aesthetic as opposed to man in bird suit (I also love costuming decisions like having the vulture main/neck fluff be an aviator jacket or the aviation mask looking like a vulture head)
Watching this essay reminded me why I LOVED Keaton as Vulture. thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@FullFatVideos i’ve been binging your videos last night, while i don’t agree with all your points, you put out a lot of good videos especially your Spider-Man 2/Whiplash one. that hit a little close to home.
A man builds, a parasite asks “where’s my share?” - Andrew Ryan
Kinda feel like this applies to Vulture a bit here
100%
The curious thing was that Toomes started out the movie trying to build something and then having it taken away before he could even profit from it, after already making the investment.
Thus, not a parasite, but what his namesake is, is what he became. A scavenger.
Not really. Toomes wanted to do his work but was taken away from him because S.H.I.E.L.D. and Tony put themselves in charge of cleaning up which nearly ruined him.
@@night4345 In defense of Andrew Ryan, he also would have objected to the government swooping in to take it.
@@Justowner Andrew Ryan would have been on Toome's side. Overreaching government taking away a man's ability to provide for his family
They should have called Harry Corn of Coblin instead of New Goblin.
Cl(ass)ic villain Corn of Coblin.
Grab that Gem.
Aha, a man of culture
Everyone says the Raimi trilogy is the best, but no one ever asks how Raimi is doing nowadays. Tisk Tisk
flapjackxl He’s producing horror films
drag me to hell was pretty good
also how does this hinder the spider-man raimi films quality anyway?
Imao
He produced the disaster horror movie, Crawl.
I think that's one of the reasons why I enjoyed Homecoming so much, Vulture reminded me of the Green Goblin. Especially the scene where he gets his wings to attack peter from behind. Very reminiscent of Goblin's move to impale Spidey with his glider.
What i really enjoy about the Raimi Spiderman interpretation is how he added his horror talents to shine through in certain scenes. He also idk how to explain it or maybe its just the time period when it was made, but there's a gritiness or 'dirty' aspect to them. They felt more real world its not as polished which i really enjoy. oh and he made the best casting decision for J. Jonah Jameson peeeriod. xoxo
I don't know how I didn't see it before, but it feels so right.
I know right he analyzed the vulture perfectly there were some things I didn't know about him either even though I watch the movie and loved it
@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 why are you in every spider-man or MCU video I've seen XD
@@tylerprime9555 first of all it's not your business second of all I'm not in everyone just in some
The Raimi villains where sympathetic (apart from Venom) and the MCU Spider-Man villains are some of the most sympathetic villains in the MCU. I think only really Zemo, Vulture, Loki, Thanos and now Mysterio achieved what those villains did, be sympathetic and/or relatable.
Kill-monger from Black Panther is also a sympathetic villain.
@@DimoB8 meh
@@xanderhoward2503 it’s true. He’s actually cool and relatable
@@Mr.Martin_0312 lol can't tell if that's sarcasm.
Y namor
I 100% agree. Raimi and Watts delivered fantastic villains in their Spider-Man films and I can't wait for the future of Spider-Man in the MCU, also will continue to support and love the Raimi Spider-Man films as they are instant classics.
thanks for watching my man!
@@FullFatVideos Anytime man!
Definitely. Between these two series spiderman probably has the best cinematic representations of a comic book rogues gallery that we've seen so far. Green goblin, doc ock, sandman, vulture, mysterio, hell even kingpin was fleshed out in daredevil. Even with all the batman movies the only ones they made land imo were catwoman and joker.
@@arthand7672 Agreed! I love that villains are getting as much love as our heroes!
@@Protocol36 I just love that they aren't just reusing the same villians over and over again. Not to keep disparaging batman, but how many live action jokers have we got? Two in TV shows, 3, soon to be 4 in movies? Three catwomen with a fourth coming in sirens? Same thing with superman always fighting zod or lex Luthor whenever they want to do anything with him. I love that even if you count the amazing spiderman films the only villain we see twice is harry Osborn's goblin.
Plus they all have a twist that, at least in my opinion, makes them unique from their comic book counterpart and fit better on film without losing what made the character resonate. They even let mysterio keep his fishbowl!
This is such a well structured video.
A+
Are you the Asian dude
So, the thing about the "fighting their wars" part, I doubt he was talking about how they are literally fighting aliens. Historically, the poor and impovrished always have fought the wars of elites. Just look to Vietnam for example, with the elite and wealthy able to draft doge and avoid it, while the poor are forced to join. I think with the Vulture's personality, he perhaps fought in Nam, it would give credence to his "Eat or be eaten" ideas when it comes to selling the tech. And even as he became richer, I doubt the mindset of his would change. He isn't an elite, he is just better off. The only reason he got better off wasn't from playing their shitty game, it was breaking the rules and working from outside.
I prefer this Vulture to any of the villains in all of the previous Spiderman live action movies. His motives were the most believable. While it is easy to see the flaws in his logic, it is also easy to see why he chooses not to see those flaws himself. Also, casting Birdman/Batman himself was freaking brilliant.
Also, after seeing Tom Holland in SM:FFH, I can definitely say I hope he has a long career playing this character.
Speaking of SM:FFH and brilliant casting, if you watch all the way to the end, you will see that once you cast the perfect actor, there is no reason to change.
Not to mention the incredible scene where he figures out Peter is spidey. By far the most intimating dialogue considering Toomes was just a dude with a Glock threating a super strong superhero. More fear instilled in me than all the Raime villains combined.
@@jimbo4908 its because you didn't grow up with them. Id be more afraid of green goblin than toomes. Toomes would be scary if he actually had beaten peter up. Actually make him realize he is a kid in a world of supermen.
@@albertotorres7746 lol you basically just used because you dont have nostalgia argument. Sorry man but that's a weak argument for what you're trying to say. And I love the raimi villains just as much as the mcu villains
@@albertotorres7746 my dude. I was 10 when Raimi's Spiderman came out. And I can wholeheartedly say Toomes made me clench up at 27 than The goblin at 10.
Who do you guys think Is more likeable, sandman or vulture? They are kinda similar story wise In movies
Homecoming and Spectacular Spider-Man made me love the Vulture
"I am what you called me! I am the vulture!"
"I called you a buzzard!"
"What?"
"You cant even get the name right!"
Vulture and Mysterio were both SPECTACULAR villains. I hope to God that they will be smart and
*Spoiler*
reveal Mysterio didn't die. After all, Edith didn't have control of the ORIGINAL drones.
just STATING that mysterio is a villain is a spoiler bro. I haven't watched the movie yet!!
grandpagohan1 mysterio still being alive kinda takes away from the mid credits scene. Having Peter think he won and the threat eliminated, then mysterio’s last card is to frame Peter as a terrorist and reveal his identity is a way better ending than that not being his last card and him being alive is his last card. Idk, maybe it was LOKI that kinda ruined this. While it makes sense for both characters to fake deaths, we already saw it 50 millón times with Loki and we don’t need to see that again with mysterio.
@@dineshsivakumar6299 Haven't you figured it out? It was kinda of obvious.
@@elijahtriche6410 yeah. But even my brother that isn't a big fan of Spider-man figured it out.
@@dineshsivakumar6299 are you stupid or something?
Sony: Are you going to make Spider-Man 4?
Sam Raimi: You’ll get your Spider-Man 4 when Sony fixes this damn door!
Sony never fixed it. Instead made Amazing Spider-Man.
Rent?
Me: Remember the Raimi Trilogy? The movie series you shot down in cold blood!?
Sony: What does it matter to you anyway?
*Train Horn*
Me: EVERYTHING!
They were fun...Even if they're not great I still enjoy them
Tombs was pretty smart and good with his hands. Stark would've probably gave him a job restoring and maintaining Stark tower and the later Avengers headquarters if he asked. He certainly had the tools and knowledge.
Toombs "kept Peter's secret" at the end of the movie because he's smart enough to know that anyone going after Spiderman is going to attack the people Spiderman/Peter loves. That would include Toombs' own daughter. So it was just another selfish act. Still love his character though, especially his consistency.
I always saw it as a begrudging respect he saved his and his daughter’s life so he was trying to repay the favor
@@ryankeefe6222 I agree, I like the idea that the vulture ultimately wasn’t a *completely* horrible guy and ultimately didn’t want Peter dead since he saved his ljfe
@@arunnumapathy7003 part of me also also thinks the dad in Toombs came out a little bit and he recognized that Peter was a good kid
@@ryankeefe6222 uP
Hang on a minute. People don’t like homecoming? Since when?
Seriously. I was always under the impression that this movie was well loved.
It is, but not everyone likes it and they might get vocal about it
From what I understand people see the movie as a step in the right direction after Spider-Man 3 and the two Amazing Spider-Man films but not on the same level as Spider-Man 2 or Spider-Verse.
So sort of a decent middle ground of it not being the best Spider-Man or MCU film but still an enjoyable one none the less.
I think some Spider-Man fans are skeptical of hc, but general superhero fans like hc
@@Deathlygunn i honestly don't get why people are praising Spider-verse, for me it was one of the worst movie experience - i literally almost walked out in the middle
@@kiriruro Why?
Dude the scene of Harry’s death broke my heart when I saw it in the cinema back then. Without Sam Raimi being forced to put Venom in, this movie would have been a masterpiece. Still love it, don’t understand the hate
i also find it cool how many vulture metaphors there are in the film. the fact hes a scavenger, has a nest/lair, the green light when he finds out who spiderman is.
"Adrián's middle class home"
Dude to me that looked like prime luxury, wow how the world changed by each person perspective
Holy s**t hearing Dr Doom say "this is gonna be fun" give me chills but sounds very much like pathfinder from apex, did the robot copy the Dr?
I grew up with the Raimi trilogy, and even with that my favorite Spider-Man ever is Tom Holland's. I'm just so grateful for these movies, they have come in a great moment in my life
"His Sinister side to emerge" I see what you did there.
The drive to the homecoming dance is honestly my favorite spider-man film scene. everything about it is perfect in isolation.
It's not "New Goblin". It's "Little Goblin Junior".
The video I didn't know I needed! Thank you once again for truly superb analysis.
Thank you bro x
"video essay about the Spider-Man Trilogy"
*HiTop Intensifies*
Fantastic analyzation. This makes me appreciate the character much more =)
Great video and the Rami spider man movies are my favorite. Thank you for talking about the vulture he was cool in homecoming.
Vulture and Dr Octavious has to be my favourite, as they both have a redemption arc
The funniest part is Sam Rami was gonna make a fourth movie with the vulture in it. 😂
Coming back to this analysis after watching No Way Home. The team behind it really knew what they were doing at least in the villain department.
Especially how they were able to make Osborne's relationship to MCU Spidey a very personal one.
I just noticed Venom shoots his webs out of the top of his wrist rather than the underside, and he makes a fist instead of the usual hand gesture spidey makes
It’s the opposite of Peter, just like a lot of other things about Raimis venom.
Wow a 2 year old video with a title that very well could be fulfilled in 2021 and beyond. Don’t forget, we’ve seen the vulture in the morbius trailer along with a picture of our favorite Spider-Man. ❤️💙
"It's all smoke and mirrors"
Was that a Mysterio video foreshadow?
Creeperman129 :)
I like how you point out that toomes is morally complex with a personal connection to the hero, and how unique that is unlike:
Obadiah Stane
Loki
Ultron
Killmonger
The winter soldier
Hela
Yon-Rogg
Yellowjacket
Kaecilius
Or, like, Ego. Dude's actual father.
the situation hela arose from is morally complex but she herself really isn't imo. she was a colonizer's weapon of war, then when she comes back she wants to reinstate that operation after centuries of historical revisionism. the complex part is moreso what that revelation means for thor and asgard as a whole.
@@AngryGodzillaBirds1 Yeah, I agree, but at the same time raimi's villains weren't all that morally complex either. They were portrayed as corrupted - 'possessed' by evil, but with some good part still inside. Like Vader. Remember when Lucas stole raimi's villians to make star wars?
I get the nostalgia people feel, but raimi's villians weren't special. They were externally motivated to the point of cliche. 'why is ___ evil?' 'oh, because the symbiote/the ai/vat of acid/etc.' Notably, those motivations don't need their own explanation. Vulture was internally motivated. Remove the wings, his motivations remain the same. He's 100% an MCU villain. For context, I grew up on Schumacher's batman. Loved them when I was a kid, but the best thing about them was the lens of childlike wonder I viewed them through.
Do people really think the Amazing Spider-Man films were “god-awful” reboots? They were a bit lackluster imo but nowhere near that level of bad.
fax
They killed Spider-Man films for a good few years. TASM 2 was so bad it made people not want to touch them lol
For The first tasm film ,I agree with you but for the second one, it is pretty God awful
@@hemutitu1870 uP
I found it hard to sit through those movies a lot of parts were pretty bad.
Thank God. I was looking for something to watch.
we have a table right over here for you sir
Thanks for this. I've seen people say Homecoming is Classist because of Toomes being the bad guy, but without even meaning you've deconstructed said argument.
As a Spider-Man fanatic, love this video! It's fantastic
Your pronunciation for "Peter" sounds like Pizza.
PeTeR TiMe
"When I was a kid I used to draw cowboys and native americans" said no one ever.
that wasn't the point I was making dude
Yeah.
I used to draw Sonic and Goku fighting
“When I was a kid, I used to draw cowboys and indigenous peoples.”
@@gadellomagnollo1810 art school admissions board didn't like those drawings though, huh?
@@stardustnation2480 too pc
Homecoming was more for mcu fans than it was strictly Spider-Man fans.
a
I’m a Spider-Man fan, since I was able to read, and I loved Homecoming
It captured perfectly the feeling of those earlier stories, the struggles of high-school, the lighter tone, and the looking up to other heroes
simonegreco well I’m not saying Spider-Man fans can’t enjoy it. I’m just saying that it’s understandable why a lot of strictly Spider-Man fans didn’t like the movie all that much.
Rain Man I’ve listened to some of their opinions and while I’m not saying you have to like this movie, most of these people are just close-minded when it comes to HC and MCU Spider-Man in general, specifically to the Tony/Peter relationship
@@simonegreco1958 I first read that as "clone minded" and I feel that is just as true. They just parrot what others say.
Aunt May’s monologue from 2 always make my eyes well up
I've always felt that with the right offer this version of Vulture could of turned into a good guy working for Shield, or the Avengers as their logistics team.
I think Spider-Man Far from home is a better movie.
But Spider-Man Homecoming has the superior villain.
Yep, agreed. Mysterio was good, but Vulture was amazing. But Far From Home was a lot more enjoyable for me.
Too Superior 2.0 Disagree, I like that Mysterio was not as sympathetic as the Vulture.
@@Christ2010Grad a villain doesnt need to be sympathetic to be good
alfa01spotivo I agree with you. A three dimensional villain doesn’t need to be sympathetic. Mysterio wasn’t as sympathetic as the Vulture, but I enjoyed him more.
Too Superior 2.0 I agree, homecoming has a better villain and slightly better humour while far from home has better action and story. Overall, I think far from home is better but there both great
Ah Rosie I love this boy!
This really makes me wish we got Raimi’s Spider-man 4 with John Malkovulture ☹️
Thank you for showing the OG rami trilogy the respect and love it deserves.
The part when Aunt May's speech is put over the deaths of the Raimi villains really makes this video stand out, and makes that speech hit a lot harder.
"It's a good villain with motivation and setup, therefore it is a Rami villain"
The MCU: finds a way to improve on the Raimi trilogy
Raimi fans: finds a way to still give the credit to Raimi
That's because Raimi set the standards. But MCU must be given their due credits.
Raimi's trilogy was shakespearian. That's why it worked. As much as I love the MCU, it wasn't so poetic in storytelling. It was more focused in giving nods and introducing characters. The older movies were stuck to a very good movie formula, similar to comics. The villains were grey and understandable, that's why The Vulture is so natural as a Raimi character.
Keaton’s Vulture may have forgotten that Peter Parker is Spider-Man which makes him go back to being a bad guy.
The TASM movies were actually really good imo. I loved them. I’ve loved all of the Spider-Man movies. But this video was awesome. Great work. 👏🏽
I just referred to Harry Osborn's New Goblin as Hobgoblin
This guy accidentally thought of the third Spider-Man movie in the *title*
I love vulture, my favorite MCU villain.
4 years* Avengers takes place in 2012, and Civil War takes place in 2016. Homecoming takes place 2 months after. So it’s at most 4.5 years later (Infinity War(which takes place 2 years after this) clears this up with Tony saying “Thanos has been in my head for 6 years”)
The video : vulture is a raimi villian
Spiderman 4 ( cancelled ) : of course he is, he's supposed to be the villian of this movie
“The gold standard for superhero movies”
The dark knight trilogy: “am I a joke to you”
The Raimi trilogy dis set the standard for superhero films, which is embracing the fact that heroes are stupid escapism fantasies and run with it in a way that makes the genre's ridiculous aspects a positive thing, it's the recipe the MCU has followed and it worked well. Other superhero movies like X Men were ashamed of the source material and actively avoided the cheesiness, it's why Wolvernine never wore the custome in any of the movies.
The Dark Knight trilogy can hardly be called superhero movies honestly, they're actually police dramas that happen to have a ninja wearing a bat custome as the protagonist. That doesn't mean they're bad at all, if anything they stand out more because they deviated from the norm. The Dark Knight trilogy's prescedent that superheroes would be dark & gritty didn't last long, just take a look at Fant4stic and most of the DCEU, those movies tried too hard to be dark and came out as edgy egdelords.
Most people thought homecoming was a solid movie, I think you’re just hanging around a bad crowd
Spider-Man: Homecoming gets a bad rap? What?
FFV hangs around in circles that deify Raimi and said Raimi fanboys hate Tom Holland/TH's Spider Man
"hangs around in circles"
@@FullFatVideos social circles?
Watch the reviews, you will learn
“Godspeed spider-man” will always be iconic
And the raimi villains have returned, and cemented themselves as some of the best adaptions in comic book history especially the Goblin
3:07 oh .... I always thought that he was called the hobgoblin
I didn't realize that Homecoming had such a bad rap with some fans. To me it was like I finally saw the Spidey that I grew up with on screen. Tobey was a great Peter, Andrew was a great Spider-Man, but Tom IS Spidey. The best of both worlds. And the movie was just a blast of fun to reinvigorate the character and franchise. It might not have had the pathos of Spider-Man 2, but it still has a ton of heart. And I think all of that was topped in Far From Home.
eh i disagree. Tom like Andrew is too happy go lucky and jokey, he doesnt change much when he's in the suit. Tobey balanced it perfectly
Homecoming Better than any other live action Spider-Man
Side note haven’t seen far from home yet
oh MYSTERIO is a bad guy(duh) and the ELEMENTALS are fake
He's not a Raimi villain, really. Raimi just perfectly captured what made Spider-Man villain origins work so well in the comics, and so did this movie.
Great vid! I think there can be some interesting points to be made about the development of the villains as well, as they were not all so vicious to begin with.