I feel with more and more western militaries adopting piston guns as their new combat rifle, the piston is still very relevant. And I'm not just saying that as copium to justify my SCAR purchase.
Imo piston has more merit than people give it, or the ar15 crowd wants to give. It also gives you the ability to have smaller rifles when needed, and everyone wants smaller lighter guns for backpacks or vehicles
Piston is catered towards the military by offering the indestructible gas system that won't blow up like a DI if you had to fend off a wave of enemies with just one gun and thousands of ammo.
For the BRN-180 people concerned about the rubber bumper becoming a problem, OTDefense makes a replacement that is solid, and should prevent any issues.
PWS all the way. By far the best AR platform I’ve used. Super clean running, lightest piston gun available, though pricey - worth every penny. Just a solid platform and really accurate.
I have 2 PWS mk111's and you're wrong they're not the lightest available piston ar15 on the market. They're good guns but definately not the lightest.. I've owned almost all the top piston brands at one point or another and I know first hand.
@@patriotgunner Yeah, there is no way it's the lightest. I mean, one could just visually compare it to something like an Adams Arms piston setup and it's obvious. It might be the lightest LONG STROKE piston gun, IDK.
@justinkase1360 actually the Adams Arms is a tad lighter than the PWS comparing 11.85" vs 11.5". The PWS isn't really "heavy" but there are a few out there lighter. I actually own an Adams Arms P2 11.5", 2 PWS mk111's and a POF P415 10.5" currently and I've owned in the past an LMT mrp Piston 16, Barret rec-7 11.5", POF P415 12.5" & Sword International mk15 11.5". So I've got quite a bit of experience with piston systems. Lol. (Also I have a Sig Spear LT 11.5" and a Sig Rattler Canebrake 300 blk but they're not AR15's so that doesn't count) I absolutely love my PWS guns but no they aren't the lightest.
@@patriotgunner Right, I was saying the AA guns were lighter. You can just look at the piston design and it's obvious. You are agreeing with me here, but there must have been a misunderstanding. I see why, because I say "it" when talking about the PWS, rather than naming it.
My youngest brother has one. I feel he's gone overboard when it comes to the peq, grip, light and flash can. The rifle weighs 11.2 lbs loaded compared to my A1 at 7.2 lbs.
PWS MK114 mod 2 owner here. The Mod 2s have a really nice rail with pic-mod. Shoots super well with my sandman. I will say it's a little heavy with the suppressor but it's because that suppressor is a tank and I have a Cloud light up front. Love the adjustable gas block and i'll never buy another rifle without it.
I have both the 16" and the 12.5" Wolf piston uppers and....kinda hate to say it...but they are my fav. The 16" is amazingly accurate and its never had a malf that wasnt either the mag or the ammo and it has eaten everything from junk Wolf ammo to IMI77gr and mk318 and just about everything in between. THE ONLY ISSUE is the lack of a case deflector as I shoot lefty and....yeah. I have a field 'fix' for this that is un-glamorous but works.... The 12.5" is awesome shooting some low flash, fast burn powder ammo like the mk318. NO personal suppressed experience, but seems they suppress well.
Wow. I have had a completely difference experience. All of my AR's (5.56, .308, etc.) are piston and I LOVE them. I do not notice the weight and it is awesome. (POF-USA). All the best.
LWRC piston enjoyer here. Mine has been great so far with about 2.5k through it. Build quality is good, and the ambi controls are fantastic. Can’t complain (yet)
I went wit the M6IC DI because it was $1600 (2018 in Hawai’i). I like the ambidextrous lower as I’m cross eye dominant (L 👁 R ✋🏽 ) and didn’t know if I’d shoot rifle lefty or righty. I’ve gone with righty. Really like my LWRCi just wish they didn’t have heavy profile barrel and proprietary handguard (at least I got all the furniture for the price).
I own 2 piston and a DI from LWRC. They've served me so well that I don't even consider any other brand. Love their newer mlok rails. Kind of like a better bcm mlok rails.
Nutn' hates piston ARs so there's that as well lol. There's always the issue of unbalanced ergonomics (muzzle heavy) and BCG tilt damage with every external piston adaption of the AR15 / AR10.
Brass facts: wants an acr, lives in Utah, wants a easily adjustable gas block, likes a monolithic upper and folding stock Also brass facts: doesn't review the XCR
I own 2 PWS piston guns, the 9" 300 BLK and a 12.5" 5.56mm. Both have performed very well with no malfunctions for over 1000 rds even while suppressed (though I don't go out in the desert and run drills with them). They are accurate and comfortable to shoot for me and do at least as well if not better than my equivalently priced DI guns.
I own and love my PWS mk111 mod 2. I also own 2 LWRC ARs and they are also great guns. I recently figured out a nifty thing for my pws, I welded an Allen type bolt head to the front of the gas block. I always had to remove my laser aiming module to do this and it was a pain. I totally think pws should incorporate this change into their design as it works flawlessly. Keep up the content
Can you give more info on how you did this with the PWS? This is the only issue i have with mine as well and would love to incorporate this into my mk111
Sorry I just saw your message. It was really easy for me being that I am very handy and have a mug welder. It would have looked better being rig welded but I work with what I have. It was super easy, I simply flush cut an eight mm socket head bolt off flat so that it was completely flat on the backside. I used a large pair of vice grips to clamp in on the muzzle end of gas adjustment plug and welded it around one little tack at a time as too not distort the part or loose heat treatment. It worked like a charm. Before I would be forced to remove my dbal for any adjustment. Let me know if I can help further, I would send a picture but it can’t be done on comment section.
The JAKL seems very much like a "we have ACR at home" type rifle. Ive seen the new charging handle sleds and they're noticeably more beefy than the originals, I'm hoping to grab one of the 16" rifles soon.
Have several PWS and LWRCI! Both are fantastic, and run cooler and cleaner with no gassing issues! But, then again, I don’t put them through torture tests!
Excellent video! I own 2 PWS rifles...love them dearly. However, at the end of the day, the only meaningful difference between them and my DI rifles is that they stay cleaner for a little bit longer. And yes, they're a little front heavy, but very smooth shooters. I will say that my 7.62x39 PWS is, by far, the best AR-type platform in that caliber. It's a special day when you have steel-case 7.62x39 shooting 1.5 - 2 MOA groups. Lastly, and most important, the good old fashioned AR-15 is still king! The genius of Stoner has persevered despite endless challenges throughout the decades.
Absolutely love my BRN-180 .300blk, side charger master race! Edit: I've had zero issues running 220 subs through mine. It's also a 10" barrel with 5/8x24 threads. Not sure what you ended up getting from them.
I’ve had a MCX, PWS, and Tavor. The PWS is a solid performer and is actually my go to over my DI gun. The MCX is very soft and flat shooting but obnoxiously front heavy with a can. DI guns from my experience are more gassy when shooting faster. Both are great as long as you train and maintain your equipment.
@@illestdomer2005 I agree on the model numbers but pick your barrel length and give it a go. If money is tight, buy ammo and training. That’s always the thing that you will get bigger gains from than gear.
@@illestdomer2005PWS model numbers are easier than you think. Pro is their more budget friendly with less features line. Mod 1 is classic AR upper and lower and Mod 2 is their high end builds. The MK numbers are the barrel length (ie. MK116 = 16 inch, MK111 = 11 inch, etc).
I also run an MCX, and it is front heavy w a can, dbal, and light. I found that by using a heavier stock on it helps balancing it more rearward and doesn't feel as heavy over all. Fully loaded, with xps3 in a unity w g33 on a unity it's at around 11 lbs. Not too bad
I've owned three LWRC piston guns since they were introduced and haven't had any issues going back to 2009. They eat whatever I feed them and just work. From my experience, I'd say everyone needs a piston driven gun even if it's an SKS which is vastly underrated in my humble opinion. The humble SKS was THE FIRST SHTF rifle. When it's TEOTWAWKI, we aren't going to have an armorer who can fix and replace parts designed to fail like the gas tube. We cannot count on having the resources to make complex repairs in the field.
Anytime I hear folks dismiss piston ARs, I know they've never experienced a good one. Often, when they finally do it's only for a couple of mags and they don't notice. Which is exactly the point... But oh boy, when it comes times to PMCS it only takes one round to _really_ appreciate the design.
Acr owner here. My piston assembly has been broken for over a year and I have a expensive paper weight in my safe. Waiting on Templar precision and going to sbr it. But it is heavy. I preferred my lwrc m6a2 over it untill I sent it back for a 12.7 barrel and added a 9007 and vampire light. Now it’s heavy… I feel like there’s always pros and cons and weight battles. Solid video as always 👌
I have a 12.5 FM15 with the non-adjustable gas block. Runs like a champ. Have to agree about the charging handle, and I brought up that same issue when I ran into the FM crew at an event a couple months ago. They told me they have a folding handle version that gives you some more leverage on it to help. If I remember correctly they called it their paratrooper handle. I'm also planning on just 3d printing a big knob at some point to put on it for the memes.
I had the same issue with my little rubber bumper/washer on my first gen BRN-180. I removed it and stacked two small washers in there and locktite and tightened it down. It hasn't been an issue since. Since it's a steel insert, steel bolt, and the bolts interfacing with the washers not the frame I wasn't afraid to really snug it down.
DI guns may poop where they eat, but they also pressurize the chamber and blow crap out. I saw a vid of a guy testing dumping snow in his ak and ar. I was down right amazed at the amount of snow he packed in his ar, and it kept working like nothing. The ak he was testing against, jammed right away. Now im not one for mud tests and that crap, but it was a very interesting point.
This is why I love my 9mm MPX firearms suppressed. The thing runs very clean but probably because the delay is so long before in chunks out the spent brass. Very nice surprise as opposed to my old issued MP5 with KAC can or my personal MP5 SBR with my 9mm can.
I own a 10.3 556 brn180. I also have a hx-qd556 can and the gun runs great on the unsuppressed setting with the can on or off. So I think running any of those piston guns for thousands of rounds wouldn't cake up the gas block nearly as much with the Hux cans.
I was thinking the same thing, Hux(OSS) really is a cheat card on the backpressure/reliability front. It pretty much eliminates all complications on config related to the suppressor besides just mounting the muzzle. I just hate how big and ugly their muzzle devices are. And the flash suppression is not good esp on the older design, in which there isn't an option to upgrade an existing can. Their new flow762ti looked cool but I saw it spit sparks during mag dump, so maybe not as tough as they claimed due to it's still only grade 5 Ti. For a total of ~$1500 I'm gonna wait and see.
Great video would be interesting to see how clean the bcg would be on these piston rifles with a flow through can compared to a conventional can and how much longer they can run before cleaning.
That way 11"(or 14") Bren2 wins most categories if fully upgraded(HBI parts and OEM stock). I know the US commercial market version comes with that POS buffer tube end plate, and the 16" version is just ugly and the barrel is way too thick - super front-heavy. It is the only real battle-proven military rifle on this list(also 9" 7.62*39 version used by GIGN). Only PWS(being requested and tested by small parts of the LE community for years) may come close in terms of reliability but it lacks folding stock as a key feature to many piston designs.
In Canada, piston guns are pretty much the only way to get a decent semi-automatic rifle chambered in 5.56. Hoping to get one soon to see how I do with it 🤷♂
Pws mk114 mod2. 3k rounds, 1/3 suppressed. Havent cleaned it yet. Not one issue. It eats steel and brass without problem. Has Adj gas. Way more reliable than my DIs. Light and soft shooting. If it had side charging instead of the t., it would be the perfect rifle.
I remember when the comment sections were filled with the “if it’s not a piston AR it’s not any good”. Typical internet clown show. I still get the most hateful comments from a. Video I did where I have my front sight on backwards. It’s called necessity. My Mawl needed to be where I keep it and some people just can’t handle thinking outside the box.
I have a PWS Mk 111 Pro that has a Midwest rail, so that solves your main complaint. I agree with your experience, it's a good upper. Ironically, I ended up going with OSS cans, so the adjustable gas didn't end up mattering for me, but I decided to just run what I brung instead of selling/trading and the PWS still serving well.
I want a piston gun but realistically, I don't run a suppressor can, I don't train, I don't hunt, I don't plan on hunting terrorists, and I use my AR as mostly a range toy. I would still buy the BRN-180, but right now I don't see the point of spending money on something that doesn't see much use. Maybe when I get back into shooting on a more regular basis.
I use a 5.56x45/.223 round on my PWS to adjust gas settings, the gas adjustment tool is cool but not required to cycle through the gas settings/adjustments.
It's weird that he made such a specific fuss about the tool, but ignored the fact that any solid piece of steel can fit into the adjustment holes to move the block. Also, having shot thousands of rounds through mine I've yet to see it even remotely seize up from carbon buildup. I haven't been shooting suppressed, so I will assume that's making the difference, but even then the PWS was designed with suppressed shooting in mind.
I've still got my PWS Mk114 Mod 0, bought in 2011. Although not as fancy as the new stuff, with adjustable gas block, and free float handguards, it's damn near bomb proof, with the quad rails bolted, to the very overbuilt gas block. Geissele SSA, from when geissele just made triggers, and not rebrand magazines with 100% markup. Eothech exps3-0, and primary arms 3x with ADM swing to side mount. Naked 6.9lbs, and surprisingly accurate for not being a few float handguard.
The Virtus my guy! Superior upper for a true folder/piston upper. I have a 16” but I think this might be my favorite rifle setup so far. Have a Razor G2E 1-6 in 1.93” scalar mount and a Cloud Rein 3.0 so far. Super nice
My LWRC M6A2 from back when they were still anodizing their guns now has 22k rounds through it and still runs great. I've cleaned it 4 times and it wasn't really that dirty on any of those cleanings. So no, not hype, all fact.
I eagerly await the day for the Perun X16 to get into full production. The hybrid piston setup they're using looks promising, and they've made as many efforts as possible to make it easy to upgrade an AR lower into a Perun lower, even if it's a permanent modification.
Excellent video. For me the two piston rifles that are at the top of my list for testing are the Wolf A1 and Robinson Arms XCR. The XCR should be the most versatile.
Piston guns have aged well in the era of proliferated suppressors. I pulled my old RUGER SR-556 out of the closet - the piston gun, a solution seeking a problem - mounted the Saker 556 to it, set the gas block to setting '1', and it's a super smooth suppressed shooter!
Ruger SR-556 (2010-era!) gas block can also be changed by hand, or anything else - a 5.56 cartridge, screwdriver, leatherman, whatever. Very easy to access and gain leverage.
Ruger SR556 is an absolute tank but they never made a short barrel version, unless you count the SR556C with a 14.5" w/ permanent A2 flash hider. I own the 556C and I absolutely love that gun, probably my favorite rifle of the 20+ I own.
SR556 was actually my first AR and it's still one of my faves. I find the adjustable gas port design is the best of all the piston guns I've tried, including the Caracal CAR816A2 and HK416.
Had an ACR, loved it. Probably a better gun than an AR- just an front heavy design though. If you delete the quick change barrel assembly and chase lightweight aftermarket parts it’d be fine, especially as an SBR. That said, I have 5 different PWS rifles that I run and I’m very happy with all of them. My favorite is the MK111 MK1 Mod2 in 7.62x39- BEAST! Weight, balance, recoil are really not noticeably different than a very well tuned DI gun.
My personal piston driven rifle is a Steyr AUG. NEVER fails as long as I clean the piston area every 500 rounds OR turn the gas block to max. Do note that NO other major military uses DI operated actions for their main battle/assault rifles. Do note that the new US Army M4 replacement, the M7, DOES use a gas piston action.
9-10 years ago my first AR out of high school was a 14.7” IC-A5 LWRC. I bought into the piston hype, but man the ambi lower was well worth it. I did take it to a carbine class and it did great. But if I could do it over again I would have gotten just a LWRC lower and assembled a nice suppressed upper or get a KAC out of the gate.
I have an FM15 13.9 p+w(non adjustable gas), Where brass facts reviewed it as an adjustable gas suppressor host, mine was intended to be a unsuppressed and folding AR alternative with a better (IMO) charging handle position. The only issues it has had after about 500 rounds is a few double feeds when I gave it brand new and lubeless lancer mags. After working on the mags a bit that has been solved. I'm a righty and run the folding/extended "para" charging handle which goes a long way for sure, the stock one is too small for the force needed to charge the rifle. Between that and mine being gassed suitably, I'd recommend it but can't say anything about it as a suppressor host.
Someone get this man an XCR, SCAR, ACR, Bren 2, and MCX Lt for review. All the supoosed AR killers in one place. Out of most of the piston guns on the market, the PWS, BRN 180, and MCX seem to be the cream of the crop for "ARish" guns. Would love to try a Bren 2. The ARX-180 seemed to have potential despite looking like an un-bullpupped F2000, but that didnt pan out.
@BrassFacts oh I completely understand that. The cheapest of those rifles is still freaking expensive compared to a run of the mil AR. If someone has one and would loan it out, that'd be pretty sick though. PWS and Brownells are really based for helping with this review.
I have tried the pistons and love my LMT Estonian ref rifle . I have the 2 position gas system it's robust and easy to use. No worries with NV it has the most rigid mono system around .
One of my speculations on why the BRN 180 did not function on the suppressed setting with 300BLK is because the suppressor does not generate enough back pressure to move the piston.
I'm $7k into two ARs, PWS and Nemo in 223 Wylde, with optics, have a 1970 AK Romanian underfolder and a cobbled together AK74 that has parts from 5 different countries. They're all pretty cool and I like them all for various different reasons. I'm pretty non-opinionated about guns in general but I've noticed that the 74 is the least reliable but when it is functioning properly depending on the weather the easiest rifle to shoot in terms of recoil, cleaning, take down, accuracy etc.for me personally. I'd love to get feedback from more technically knowledgable people on why I should like one better than the other. For popping through barriers, nothing comes close to the 7.62x39 within 200 yards, I know people will yell at me for saying that but I shoot for fun and find all kinds of stupid testing materials from junkyards and construction sites and it's just kind of how it is.
I tossed a Superlative Arms Piston kit on my suppressed 10.3 and that thing is Gucci. I adjusted it for unsuppressed and it's a workhorse. Made it around 1,200 round no stoppages. I tossed a vented forward assist on to deal with the extra gas blow off from only staying on one setting for both suppressed and not. If you only run suppressed, you can set it in bleed mode and really fine tune it to perfection. Would love to see you try one of them out, maybe ask nice and see if they will send on to ya.
Just to add another data point, I have a decent suppressed AR SBR and it starts to choke up around 600-700 rounds without cleaning, similar to what you’ve experienced.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
This video took so long to get out of youtube purgatory. That I forgot about it.
It's now 4months later. (hence the ammo sponsor comments)
YT Commies…
Pound sand.
Great Video!
I saw the vid saying it was posted an hour ago, but comments from months ago lol.
🖕🏼 For the first minutes comment.
Did you delete the other video I saw something about an acog posted at 6am
@@jediyodac3po nope?
Appreciate the shout out, not sure how i feel about being called an OG, but i still appreciate it lol.
You're an OG of the "regular guy training" archetype. Literally.
I feel with more and more western militaries adopting piston guns as their new combat rifle, the piston is still very relevant. And I'm not just saying that as copium to justify my SCAR purchase.
Imo piston has more merit than people give it, or the ar15 crowd wants to give. It also gives you the ability to have smaller rifles when needed, and everyone wants smaller lighter guns for backpacks or vehicles
Piston is catered towards the military by offering the indestructible gas system that won't blow up like a DI if you had to fend off a wave of enemies with just one gun and thousands of ammo.
How did you make this comment 3 months ago?!
The feelz
@@Dj1DurBreD I thought people would have figured it out by now but its probably the early access for paying channel supporters
For the BRN-180 people concerned about the rubber bumper becoming a problem, OTDefense makes a replacement that is solid, and should prevent any issues.
Thanks for shouting out Regular Guy, he's really putting in the work and has some insanely high round counts on most of his firearms.
True OG
His classes are awesome. Go to them if you can.
Brass Facts x Regular Guy collab when?
Hell yeah that dude doesn't get enough credit. He's a mother trucking OG.
@@kimbroslic3 yes
PWS all the way. By far the best AR platform I’ve used. Super clean running, lightest piston gun available, though pricey - worth every penny. Just a solid platform and really accurate.
Agreed. I run my 11" mk1 on a full ambi lower and I love it. I might be changing lowers soon, though.
I have 2 PWS mk111's and you're wrong they're not the lightest available piston ar15 on the market. They're good guns but definately not the lightest.. I've owned almost all the top piston brands at one point or another and I know first hand.
@@patriotgunner Yeah, there is no way it's the lightest. I mean, one could just visually compare it to something like an Adams Arms piston setup and it's obvious. It might be the lightest LONG STROKE piston gun, IDK.
@justinkase1360 actually the Adams Arms is a tad lighter than the PWS comparing 11.85" vs 11.5". The PWS isn't really "heavy" but there are a few out there lighter. I actually own an Adams Arms P2 11.5", 2 PWS mk111's and a POF P415 10.5" currently and I've owned in the past an LMT mrp Piston 16, Barret rec-7 11.5", POF P415 12.5" & Sword International mk15 11.5". So I've got quite a bit of experience with piston systems. Lol. (Also I have a Sig Spear LT 11.5" and a Sig Rattler Canebrake 300 blk but they're not AR15's so that doesn't count) I absolutely love my PWS guns but no they aren't the lightest.
@@patriotgunner Right, I was saying the AA guns were lighter. You can just look at the piston design and it's obvious. You are agreeing with me here, but there must have been a misunderstanding. I see why, because I say "it" when talking about the PWS, rather than naming it.
PWS checks the boxes for me. Long stroke, fully ambi lower, soft shooting, reliable. I love my PWS setups.
Yup. Most reliable, balanced AR
My youngest brother has one. I feel he's gone overboard when it comes to the peq, grip, light and flash can. The rifle weighs 11.2 lbs loaded compared to my A1 at 7.2 lbs.
PWS has treated me very well. The Mk114 is 👌
Except it has the god awful AR-15 charging handle
@@PurpleIsALetter it comes with Radian Raptor
Piston? More like pissed on! Hahaha (I don't care about folding stocks at all)
Asking here because I'm shameless. What's the song that you had as a running joke on your B-roll video from yesterday?
On a long enough timeline, everything comes back around to AR-18
How much you paying per round for 5.56?
@@Matt-xc6sp Exactly. Almost every intermediate rifle we currently have is at some point in its development arc of being an AR-18
Haha yea I only care about _you!_ 🥰
The Nova + Hop footage was truly heartwarming.
I love my PWS long stroke goodness, great suppressor host, awesome company and great people
If Stoner had designed the AR with an adjustable gas block, you bet it would require just the tip of a 5.56 round to adjust it.
FM15 FTW!
BRN 180 has entered the chat.
WHAT THE FUCK IS A CASTLE NUT
14:45 related comment, nice!
AR 18
Glad I bought the CZ Bren 2. Soft and reliable.
Adams Arms Piston add-on kits are probably one of the better options. Keep the standard charging handle. Soft shooting, easy to adjust.
PWS MK114 mod 2 owner here. The Mod 2s have a really nice rail with pic-mod. Shoots super well with my sandman. I will say it's a little heavy with the suppressor but it's because that suppressor is a tank and I have a Cloud light up front. Love the adjustable gas block and i'll never buy another rifle without it.
Legitimately the first person I've ever seen running the Geissele LVPO. Thank you for your service.
it's so meh haha
Ahh, the LVPO a retarded cousin of the LPVO. But still miles ahead of the PLVO.
My first AR was a Wolf T91 piston upper on an Aero lower. It's been great so far and I love the unique flavor of it
Taiwan strong
Does anyone in the USA make a rail for it?
@@sebleonard8273T91 Tactical does. They also make a lightweight BCG.
I have both the 16" and the 12.5" Wolf piston uppers and....kinda hate to say it...but they are my fav. The 16" is amazingly accurate and its never had a malf that wasnt either the mag or the ammo and it has eaten everything from junk Wolf ammo to IMI77gr and mk318 and just about everything in between.
THE ONLY ISSUE is the lack of a case deflector as I shoot lefty and....yeah. I have a field 'fix' for this that is un-glamorous but works....
The 12.5" is awesome shooting some low flash, fast burn powder ammo like the mk318.
NO personal suppressed experience, but seems they suppress well.
@@ssnerd583
I'm about to order a 14.5 t91 upper
But I can't get a response from the vendor on their return policy just in case I get a lemon
Wow. I have had a completely difference experience. All of my AR's (5.56, .308, etc.) are piston and I LOVE them. I do not notice the weight and it is awesome. (POF-USA). All the best.
Pof kicks ass
I have a gen1 P415 that has a Mike Rock fluted barrel. I love that gun. Frank was a great designer. RIP.
@@welderdude1 I personally met Frank at Shot Show a year before he passed. Very kind and humble man. Miss him.
@@pfknob pretty cool. He is missed.
My pof 417 I think it’s called is the lightest piston rifle I own. It’s a 16” and it’s lighter than my 11.5 virtus.
LWRC piston enjoyer here. Mine has been great so far with about 2.5k through it. Build quality is good, and the ambi controls are fantastic. Can’t complain (yet)
LWRC DI > LWRC Piston lol. But seriously it is.
I went wit the M6IC DI because it was $1600 (2018 in Hawai’i). I like the ambidextrous lower as I’m cross eye dominant (L 👁 R ✋🏽 ) and didn’t know if I’d shoot rifle lefty or righty. I’ve gone with righty.
Really like my LWRCi just wish they didn’t have heavy profile barrel and proprietary handguard (at least I got all the furniture for the price).
It's an LWRC. Don't look for problems hahahahaaaa
LWRC REPR Gen I, Rnd count: 3,348 Fed 175 SMK & Handloads 175 SMK
*Bad primers, perfect rifle. 'Nuff said
I own 2 piston and a DI from LWRC. They've served me so well that I don't even consider any other brand. Love their newer mlok rails. Kind of like a better bcm mlok rails.
Lwrci is just better than everyone else. Fight me. 😅
I like my POF-USA P415 Edge Pistol and Rifle, both use short stroked pistons
People really don’t understand how important nutnfancy and Yeager are to the history of this thing we got.
Nutn is the OG .. Saw that guy in what 2008?
Except watchable, nutn was too boring for my zoomer brain
Yeah, no. Nutn talks too much and his videos are long and boring. He could make a 45 min video on the smell of his own farts.
Nutn' hates piston ARs so there's that as well lol. There's always the issue of unbalanced ergonomics (muzzle heavy) and BCG tilt damage with every external piston adaption of the AR15 / AR10.
@@Enjoyer.762POF has an anti-tilt buffer tube that fixes that
Brass facts: wants an acr, lives in Utah, wants a easily adjustable gas block, likes a monolithic upper and folding stock
Also brass facts: doesn't review the XCR
XCR needs to be reviewed by Brassfacts for sure
Seriously 😂
XCR is junk lol
Robinson QC is horrendous and you can't even send it in for warranty work because they make batches of guns and parts alternating
no XCR or POF. smh my head
I’m and XCR owner as of early 2022 and could be more happy with my purchase
I have a BRN-180 in 5.56 and I love it. Glad to see it did well for you
I own 2 PWS piston guns, the 9" 300 BLK and a 12.5" 5.56mm. Both have performed very well with no malfunctions for over 1000 rds even while suppressed (though I don't go out in the desert and run drills with them). They are accurate and comfortable to shoot for me and do at least as well if not better than my equivalently priced DI guns.
I have been waiting forever for someone to make this video! Thank you!
I own and love my PWS mk111 mod 2. I also own 2 LWRC ARs and they are also great guns. I recently figured out a nifty thing for my pws, I welded an Allen type bolt head to the front of the gas block. I always had to remove my laser aiming module to do this and it was a pain. I totally think pws should incorporate this change into their design as it works flawlessly. Keep up the content
Can you give more info on how you did this with the PWS? This is the only issue i have with mine as well and would love to incorporate this into my mk111
Sorry I just saw your message. It was really easy for me being that I am very handy and have a mug welder. It would have looked better being rig welded but I work with what I have. It was super easy, I simply flush cut an eight mm socket head bolt off flat so that it was completely flat on the backside. I used a large pair of vice grips to clamp in on the muzzle end of gas adjustment plug and welded it around one little tack at a time as too not distort the part or loose heat treatment. It worked like a charm. Before I would be forced to remove my dbal for any adjustment. Let me know if I can help further, I would send a picture but it can’t be done on comment section.
@@roberttaylor7451 So now you use a standard allen wrench?
The JAKL seems very much like a "we have ACR at home" type rifle. Ive seen the new charging handle sleds and they're noticeably more beefy than the originals, I'm hoping to grab one of the 16" rifles soon.
Have several PWS and LWRCI! Both are fantastic, and run cooler and cleaner with no gassing issues! But, then again, I don’t put them through torture tests!
Excellent video! I own 2 PWS rifles...love them dearly. However, at the end of the day, the only meaningful difference between them and my DI rifles is that they stay cleaner for a little bit longer. And yes, they're a little front heavy, but very smooth shooters. I will say that my 7.62x39 PWS is, by far, the best AR-type platform in that caliber. It's a special day when you have steel-case 7.62x39 shooting 1.5 - 2 MOA groups.
Lastly, and most important, the good old fashioned AR-15 is still king! The genius of Stoner has persevered despite endless challenges throughout the decades.
Excellent comparison! Thoughts on the MCX? Would be great if you added it to the comparison.
if they send me one, sure.
@@BrassFacts Assuming you’d say the same thing about the CMMG Dissent? Looks like yet another competitor
@@That_Guy5575 yeah. More or less.
I might buy the cmmg dissent with my own money since that aligns with my current interests more.
@@BrassFacts I’ll be buying one in a couple months and would be willing to loan it to you before I use it.
@@doublepiedavid8908 legend!
I have an 11" PWS that I only shoot suppressed and I've been really happy with it.
A PWS MK111 Mod 1 is possibly one of the softest shooting rifles when shot suppressed with an RC2 on setting 3. It’s an amazing experience.
Absolutely love my BRN-180 .300blk, side charger master race!
Edit: I've had zero issues running 220 subs through mine. It's also a 10" barrel with 5/8x24 threads. Not sure what you ended up getting from them.
Well it was free
LWRC makes an impossibly light piston carbine, but again you pay for it.
I’ve had a MCX, PWS, and Tavor. The PWS is a solid performer and is actually my go to over my DI gun. The MCX is very soft and flat shooting but obnoxiously front heavy with a can. DI guns from my experience are more gassy when shooting faster. Both are great as long as you train and maintain your equipment.
The MCX is definitely front-heavy. Is the PWS better? I dunno - it's on my list, but trying to follow all of the different models is dizzying.
@@illestdomer2005 I agree on the model numbers but pick your barrel length and give it a go. If money is tight, buy ammo and training. That’s always the thing that you will get bigger gains from than gear.
@@illestdomer2005PWS model numbers are easier than you think. Pro is their more budget friendly with less features line. Mod 1 is classic AR upper and lower and Mod 2 is their high end builds. The MK numbers are the barrel length (ie. MK116 = 16 inch, MK111 = 11 inch, etc).
I also run an MCX, and it is front heavy w a can, dbal, and light. I found that by using a heavier stock on it helps balancing it more rearward and doesn't feel as heavy over all. Fully loaded, with xps3 in a unity w g33 on a unity it's at around 11 lbs. Not too bad
@@jeremynicholson2138 what do you use? I am trying to decide on a 1913 with buffer tube or MCX stock.
I've owned three LWRC piston guns since they were introduced and haven't had any issues going back to 2009. They eat whatever I feed them and just work. From my experience, I'd say everyone needs a piston driven gun even if it's an SKS which is vastly underrated in my humble opinion. The humble SKS was THE FIRST SHTF rifle.
When it's TEOTWAWKI, we aren't going to have an armorer who can fix and replace parts designed to fail like the gas tube. We cannot count on having the resources to make complex repairs in the field.
Any piston AR conversation HAS to include LWRC
Anytime I hear folks dismiss piston ARs, I know they've never experienced a good one. Often, when they finally do it's only for a couple of mags and they don't notice. Which is exactly the point...
But oh boy, when it comes times to PMCS it only takes one round to _really_ appreciate the design.
Based LWRCI enjoyer.
Seriously though, that self cleaning scraping piston cup design is something else.
I have a Galil Ace in 7.62x39.
Just get an AK lol.
This video is very informative, hit all the points perfectly, and came full circle at the end. Great work!
Acr owner here. My piston assembly has been broken for over a year and I have a expensive paper weight in my safe. Waiting on Templar precision and going to sbr it. But it is heavy. I preferred my lwrc m6a2 over it untill I sent it back for a 12.7 barrel and added a 9007 and vampire light. Now it’s heavy… I feel like there’s always pros and cons and weight battles. Solid video as always 👌
Mine’s been very overgassed when firing. I love the gun but it’s fixing to be retired because of how difficult it is to find parts for it
The rant that ends with " you f@cking poor" was pretty damn good....love the channel and the content, good stuff.
I have a 12.5 FM15 with the non-adjustable gas block. Runs like a champ. Have to agree about the charging handle, and I brought up that same issue when I ran into the FM crew at an event a couple months ago. They told me they have a folding handle version that gives you some more leverage on it to help. If I remember correctly they called it their paratrooper handle. I'm also planning on just 3d printing a big knob at some point to put on it for the memes.
I have the 9", and I am glad I strength train.
I had the same issue with my little rubber bumper/washer on my first gen BRN-180. I removed it and stacked two small washers in there and locktite and tightened it down. It hasn't been an issue since. Since it's a steel insert, steel bolt, and the bolts interfacing with the washers not the frame I wasn't afraid to really snug it down.
If you are interested in the ACR, look at Templar Precision, he makes really nice ACR parts, and has an ACR-esque up, called the Tempest
I think we need a Brass Facts word of the day, hyperbolic is my new one ! Fantastic Man
Someone get this man some POF and Robinson Arms rifles. Almost painful to watch.
...dear brass facts, can we please have a volume 2 of this? Perhaps with a BRN4 and/or any other new flavors of pistons you'd like to educate us on.
DI guns may poop where they eat, but they also pressurize the chamber and blow crap out. I saw a vid of a guy testing dumping snow in his ak and ar. I was down right amazed at the amount of snow he packed in his ar, and it kept working like nothing. The ak he was testing against, jammed right away. Now im not one for mud tests and that crap, but it was a very interesting point.
@@westhompson574 ak most reliable gun on planet is a myth.
This is why I love my 9mm MPX firearms suppressed. The thing runs very clean but probably because the delay is so long before in chunks out the spent brass. Very nice surprise as opposed to my old issued MP5 with KAC can or my personal MP5 SBR with my 9mm can.
I own a 10.3 556 brn180. I also have a hx-qd556 can and the gun runs great on the unsuppressed setting with the can on or off. So I think running any of those piston guns for thousands of rounds wouldn't cake up the gas block nearly as much with the Hux cans.
I was thinking the same thing, Hux(OSS) really is a cheat card on the backpressure/reliability front. It pretty much eliminates all complications on config related to the suppressor besides just mounting the muzzle.
I just hate how big and ugly their muzzle devices are. And the flash suppression is not good esp on the older design, in which there isn't an option to upgrade an existing can.
Their new flow762ti looked cool but I saw it spit sparks during mag dump, so maybe not as tough as they claimed due to it's still only grade 5 Ti. For a total of ~$1500 I'm gonna wait and see.
Great video would be interesting to see how clean the bcg would be on these piston rifles with a flow through can compared to a conventional can and how much longer they can run before cleaning.
I posted above but I did 800+ on my pws with a 556k flow and it wasn't really that dirty. I just wiped it down and kept going.
great video! thank you for not sugarcoating anything!
Personally would like to see two other setups included at some point, the Bren 2, and the LWRC piston setup.
That way 11"(or 14") Bren2 wins most categories if fully upgraded(HBI parts and OEM stock). I know the US commercial market version comes with that POS buffer tube end plate, and the 16" version is just ugly and the barrel is way too thick - super front-heavy.
It is the only real battle-proven military rifle on this list(also 9" 7.62*39 version used by GIGN).
Only PWS(being requested and tested by small parts of the LE community for years) may come close in terms of reliability but it lacks folding stock as a key feature to many piston designs.
In Canada, piston guns are pretty much the only way to get a decent semi-automatic rifle chambered in 5.56. Hoping to get one soon to see how I do with it 🤷♂
Pws mk114 mod2. 3k rounds, 1/3 suppressed. Havent cleaned it yet. Not one issue. It eats steel and brass without problem. Has Adj gas. Way more reliable than my DIs. Light and soft shooting. If it had side charging instead of the t., it would be the perfect rifle.
What magnifier mount is that behind the eotech? And….BCA side charger DI upper for the win! 😂
You should try out the wolf T91 uppers, only drawback is no adjustable gas, and a proprietary handguard
Totally agree,
I have two T91’s (12.5 & 16) They are rock solid reliable accurate rifles.
@@rescuetree yeah I have the same 2 uppers,16” is on a What would stoner do lower, with optic and mag it under 7 lbs
Regular Guy Training is criminally underrated
I remember when the comment sections were filled with the “if it’s not a piston AR it’s not any good”. Typical internet clown show. I still get the most hateful comments from a. Video I did where I have my front sight on backwards. It’s called necessity. My Mawl needed to be where I keep it and some people just can’t handle thinking outside the box.
Love my 2 pws 11.8 556 uppers. Slightly heavier than a di gun but checks all the other boxes.
If you have the mk2, it would be lighter than most DI guns. Mk111 mk2 is lighter than a mk18.
She was so happy to see the Hop! Most excellent!!
@BrassFacts Can you review a POF Piston rifle?
I have a PWS Mk 111 Pro that has a Midwest rail, so that solves your main complaint. I agree with your experience, it's a good upper.
Ironically, I ended up going with OSS cans, so the adjustable gas didn't end up mattering for me, but I decided to just run what I brung instead of selling/trading and the PWS still serving well.
This is a good setup. I don't think you can do better for the money. MCX is heavier too.
What benefits do you get from the Midwest rail? I have a MK114 MOD2 with the PICLOK rail
Hey if you come to the ,1000 Islands area to dive in New York reach out I'll take you out!
Love your content.
I want a piston gun but realistically, I don't run a suppressor can, I don't train, I don't hunt, I don't plan on hunting terrorists, and I use my AR as mostly a range toy. I would still buy the BRN-180, but right now I don't see the point of spending money on something that doesn't see much use. Maybe when I get back into shooting on a more regular basis.
I use a 5.56x45/.223 round on my PWS to adjust gas settings, the gas adjustment tool is cool but not required to cycle through the gas settings/adjustments.
It's weird that he made such a specific fuss about the tool, but ignored the fact that any solid piece of steel can fit into the adjustment holes to move the block. Also, having shot thousands of rounds through mine I've yet to see it even remotely seize up from carbon buildup. I haven't been shooting suppressed, so I will assume that's making the difference, but even then the PWS was designed with suppressed shooting in mind.
I love my 11.85 PWS in 7.62X39
I've still got my PWS Mk114 Mod 0, bought in 2011. Although not as fancy as the new stuff, with adjustable gas block, and free float handguards, it's damn near bomb proof, with the quad rails bolted, to the very overbuilt gas block. Geissele SSA, from when geissele just made triggers, and not rebrand magazines with 100% markup. Eothech exps3-0, and primary arms 3x with ADM swing to side mount. Naked 6.9lbs, and surprisingly accurate for not being a few float handguard.
The Virtus my guy! Superior upper for a true folder/piston upper. I have a 16” but I think this might be my favorite rifle setup so far. Have a Razor G2E 1-6 in 1.93” scalar mount and a Cloud Rein 3.0 so far. Super nice
I have an 11.5" 5.56 barrel and 6.75" 300blk barrel for my Virtus. Built like a rock and heavy as one too.
@@illestdomer2005 weight is up there yah, but in the wise words of Father Thumb, lift weights😂
Good info and logic. Looking forward to round 2 including some of the other big boys.
The new JAKL with the extended handguard 13.7” or 14.5” barrel and F5 (ACR) stock is basically like an upgraded ACR.
My LWRC M6A2 from back when they were still anodizing their guns now has 22k rounds through it and still runs great. I've cleaned it 4 times and it wasn't really that dirty on any of those cleanings. So no, not hype, all fact.
I eagerly await the day for the Perun X16 to get into full production. The hybrid piston setup they're using looks promising, and they've made as many efforts as possible to make it easy to upgrade an AR lower into a Perun lower, even if it's a permanent modification.
Excellent video. For me the two piston rifles that are at the top of my list for testing are the Wolf A1 and Robinson Arms XCR. The XCR should be the most versatile.
Great comparison 👍🏼🤙🏽. Thank you!!
LDubb and POF for the win
You tend to post videos on topics I think about within a week of when I consider them. This is one of those times.
Piston guns have aged well in the era of proliferated suppressors.
I pulled my old RUGER SR-556 out of the closet - the piston gun, a solution seeking a problem - mounted the Saker 556 to it, set the gas block to setting '1', and it's a super smooth suppressed shooter!
Ruger SR-556 (2010-era!) gas block can also be changed by hand, or anything else - a 5.56 cartridge, screwdriver, leatherman, whatever. Very easy to access and gain leverage.
I don’t have extensive experience with piston firearms but my favorite is the PWS long stroke. 11.85” 7.62X39
What about HK 416, FN SCAR, and Sig Spear LT which would seem to be the most relevant piston Guns
would love to test those.
@@BrassFactsI’d send a copy of each. If I had any of them, of course
Ruger SR556 is an absolute tank but they never made a short barrel version, unless you count the SR556C with a 14.5" w/ permanent A2 flash hider. I own the 556C and I absolutely love that gun, probably my favorite rifle of the 20+ I own.
SR556 was actually my first AR and it's still one of my faves. I find the adjustable gas port design is the best of all the piston guns I've tried, including the Caracal CAR816A2 and HK416.
@@williambasilone Adams Arms is the easiest of the adjustable ones i've fiddled with but the Ruger one is nice too
@@Fadaar#GKCO
13:51 - That's impressive, for a man of your heritage. Super impressive in fact.
Love my lwrci DI 12.5" ar15, but my sig spear 16" in 7.62x39 is my go-to training rifle now.
Had an ACR, loved it. Probably a better gun than an AR- just an front heavy design though. If you delete the quick change barrel assembly and chase lightweight aftermarket parts it’d be fine, especially as an SBR.
That said, I have 5 different PWS rifles that I run and I’m very happy with all of them. My favorite is the MK111 MK1 Mod2 in 7.62x39- BEAST!
Weight, balance, recoil are really not noticeably different than a very well tuned DI gun.
I feel like you should try and get a XCR-L to either borrow or buy for a review
My personal piston driven rifle is a Steyr AUG. NEVER fails as long as I clean the piston area every 500 rounds OR turn the gas block to max.
Do note that NO other major military uses DI operated actions for their main battle/assault rifles.
Do note that the new US Army M4 replacement, the M7, DOES use a gas piston action.
Over here chilling with my LMT 12” piston love it
This is a great video. Why not have any POF’s in the video though? They are the OG of the system
9-10 years ago my first AR out of high school was a 14.7” IC-A5 LWRC. I bought into the piston hype, but man the ambi lower was well worth it. I did take it to a carbine class and it did great. But if I could do it over again I would have gotten just a LWRC lower and assembled a nice suppressed upper or get a KAC out of the gate.
I have an FM15 13.9 p+w(non adjustable gas), Where brass facts reviewed it as an adjustable gas suppressor host, mine was intended to be a unsuppressed and folding AR alternative with a better (IMO) charging handle position. The only issues it has had after about 500 rounds is a few double feeds when I gave it brand new and lubeless lancer mags. After working on the mags a bit that has been solved. I'm a righty and run the folding/extended "para" charging handle which goes a long way for sure, the stock one is too small for the force needed to charge the rifle. Between that and mine being gassed suitably, I'd recommend it but can't say anything about it as a suppressor host.
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The only piston rifle I like is the SCAR and AK platform.
I have used the tines of my Leathermans needlenose pliers on my PWS to adjust the gas. Might be a help for you
I'd love to see Regular guy training take an FM15 and a 16" CMMG Dissent through their courses.
I’m a pretty simple man, when Brass Facts uploads I like the video
Someone get this man an XCR, SCAR, ACR, Bren 2, and MCX Lt for review.
All the supoosed AR killers in one place.
Out of most of the piston guns on the market, the PWS, BRN 180, and MCX seem to be the cream of the crop for "ARish" guns. Would love to try a Bren 2. The ARX-180 seemed to have potential despite looking like an un-bullpupped F2000, but that didnt pan out.
I'd love to, but the budget of the channel means all of those would mean that would take several years.
@BrassFacts oh I completely understand that. The cheapest of those rifles is still freaking expensive compared to a run of the mil AR.
If someone has one and would loan it out, that'd be pretty sick though.
PWS and Brownells are really based for helping with this review.
My Lwrc & Pws rifles are impeccable. Love me some piston.
I have tried the pistons and love my LMT Estonian ref rifle . I have the 2 position gas system it's robust and easy to use. No worries with NV it has the most rigid mono system around .
One of my speculations on why the BRN 180 did not function on the suppressed setting with 300BLK is because the suppressor does not generate enough back pressure to move the piston.
LWRC make a damn good piston rifle.
I'm $7k into two ARs, PWS and Nemo in 223 Wylde, with optics, have a 1970 AK Romanian underfolder and a cobbled together AK74 that has parts from 5 different countries. They're all pretty cool and I like them all for various different reasons. I'm pretty non-opinionated about guns in general but I've noticed that the 74 is the least reliable but when it is functioning properly depending on the weather the easiest rifle to shoot in terms of recoil, cleaning, take down, accuracy etc.for me personally. I'd love to get feedback from more technically knowledgable people on why I should like one better than the other. For popping through barriers, nothing comes close to the 7.62x39 within 200 yards, I know people will yell at me for saying that but I shoot for fun and find all kinds of stupid testing materials from junkyards and construction sites and it's just kind of how it is.
I tossed a Superlative Arms Piston kit on my suppressed 10.3 and that thing is Gucci. I adjusted it for unsuppressed and it's a workhorse. Made it around 1,200 round no stoppages. I tossed a vented forward assist on to deal with the extra gas blow off from only staying on one setting for both suppressed and not. If you only run suppressed, you can set it in bleed mode and really fine tune it to perfection. Would love to see you try one of them out, maybe ask nice and see if they will send on to ya.
I love both my LWRC IC piston and my 416. They run amazing.
Just to add another data point, I have a decent suppressed AR SBR and it starts to choke up around 600-700 rounds without cleaning, similar to what you’ve experienced.
What’s the deets on that guy? Mfg and barrel and all that?
@@ethanlorton8568 Criterion barrel on an Aero receiver/BCG with an A5 buffer system.