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Taking Back Protestantism | With
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- #protestant #pcusa #methodist #umc
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This was a great conversation and I’m 100% on board. Let’s leave evangelicalism and return to Protestantism
Awesome! Great to hear it! ⚔️
As a Methodist, the UMC needs to be reconquista'd in a huge way. The map provided by RZ has zero UMC churches and just one Presbyterian church in the city center of Charlotte NC. I still enjoy going to church and worshipping but am quite disgusted by the gender neutral doxology that has slipped in. Not expecting anything positive from the worldwide General Conference next week, although i would happily be proven wrong.
Excellent episode, though I felt like Dr. Frost interrupted a good bit. I try to pray for the Reconquista and the revival of historic Protestantism daily.
I am of two-minds with RR and the larger movement. I believe we need faithful reclamation of the Gospel in our churches contra ideologies that are out of line with Scripture. Lord knows, as someone who served in a progressive Baptist church for almost 4 years, I did not come out of that experience without some scars. I am active in my church and preach the Gospel every Sunday. On the other hand, I've seen a tendency toward red-pillism and misogyny from conservative Christians, where an unhealthy mindset tends toward condescension and theological partisanship. I know RR gets this because he often distinguishes between theological and political conservatism. Maybe we need more nuance on this point so as to avoid the red-pill reaction.
That said, I think we need a more robust biblical anthropology that does not baptize equally unhealthy and unbiblical ideologies from the left and right. Swinging from one side to the other uncritically is not going to result in healthy churches. As someone who affirms the biblical ordination of women to the pastorate and is holds to the traditional biblical sexual ethic, I get the sense that such a movement would unnecessarily create a divide where none is needed.
So, I'm with RR and others on this *in principle.* I would push us to avoid red-pillism as a substitute for the Gospel, which I suspect he would affirm. Perhaps we need to be louder on this point to avoid falling into an equally pernicious anthropological heresy on the right.
Just typing out loud. A very helpful video, Lucas! Keep em' coming.
Thank you, Nick!
@@methodministries thank YOU!
VIVE LA RECONQUISTA!!! DEUS VULT!!!
I'm somewhat curious about this.
What is your understanding of how the GMC came to be and why?
Retreatism.
@@methodministries Ah. I would gently push back and say that's a poor representation of the whole. There is a lot that happened and conservatives are not the only ones "fleeing" nor could they be considered an overwhelming majority - the majority, yes.
There was a lot more that went into it which went beyond the progressive/woke issues at hand. Many were forced out of the church (progressive and conservative alike) because the leadership in the church has started coming down for unfounded reasons and are, by testimony, not following procedures. There is a lot going on, in short.
I mention this, because it does come across as unreasonable from this video on how broadly the GMC is considered in this, since that cannot be held as the case when you start looking into it and hearing what the people had to say.
I do know that some, like Rev. Daniel Hixon were treated very badly by the UMC. But it also seems looking in from the outside that the conservatives won the vote on gay marriage but didn’t want to do the uncomfortable thing of enforcing it and enacting church discipline on those who were flagrantly violating the Book of Discipline.
@@unit2394 I'm not saying that's not a part of everything that happened. There are certainly those who took a spineless approach to the circumstances.
But to broad-brush the GMC as an organization of those who retreated is, in my understanding, a poor faith assessment.
That's all I am trying to say. I agree with the points everyone was making with the video. I am simply asking to not use the GMC as the scapegoat for point.
@@darthnocturnis3941 I understand. Since the GMC is now a thing, I can’t really blame many churches for running the mental calculus on the new balance of power between the liberals and conservatives within the UMC and deciding to leave for fear of being treated poorly within the UMC.
I still think it is just a very suboptimal outcome and that the UMC could’ve possibly been saved if people had just done the uncomfortable work of enforcing the actual rules. But it is what it is.
Wow...have you guys talked to church planters in the US? Church plants are not born out of division from churches. In the 90's and early 2000's, that was the case. But man, you guys are missing a lot of information about church plants. Different denominations actually support church planting. Around 4000 local churches close every year. The church plants in Philadelphia, for example, planted in areas where there were no churches reaching the unchurched BECAUSE the churches in the area simply played church...where they did their Sunday morning productions, "fed the sheep", did their prayer meetings and rarely made any intentional efforts to reach the unchurched. Yes, we have a ton of churches but guess what? A simple google search will tell us that only around 30% of adults regularly attend church (at least once a month) or would say they are a part of a church. 30%. It is sad that, yes, we do have a ton of churches but only 30% of adults in the US are a part of a body. What is happening to the rest of the population? what about that 70%? Church plants are aiming to reach these 70%. Of course, there will be some members who will jump over from one church to another...but that is to be expected. If I was in a church just doing church, I would want to be part of a church who actually is trying to reach those who are unchurched instead of trying to get other church people to go to their church. That is the church culture in the US. We have a better children's and youth ministry, you should join us. We have a great band and sound, you should join us. We have the biggest and baddest pipe organ and stained glass window, you should join us. The churches that are already there are not doing the work to reach the lost...they are simply playing church...many have simply become christian clubs. So, yes, many buildings are empty because they too many have focused on what they want instead of what God wants. You can't blame church plants for many of the churches that are empty. If you ask the people around a local churches, "if this church didn't exist, would it make a difference in your neighborhood"...many will say it won't. US churches have been insignificant to the unchurched...and this is the reason for church plants or replant/revitalizations.
I would highly encourage you to talk to some church planters and those who are being sent out by their church associations.