IOTV ESAPI vs Eastern threats, Vintorez 9x39 AP
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2022
- #IOTV #ESAPI #9x39
This was a real challenge to do, your further support will be necessary
linktr.ee/Oxide_does
Basic test data: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... 
Игры
Игры
ERROR: at 0:26 I should've said M995. Shout out to my boy Corbin, my cameraman caught covid and was actually sick so Corbin stepped in for him the day of the VSS test for a 12 hour drive. This test was extremely expensive, I could really use your financial support to help keep me going, and going faster linktr.ee/Oxide_does
Soo its the price of these rounds that hit you the hardest or actually getting them? Logistics i mean
@oxide how woild i go about sending you ammo i have 2 rounds of 7.62x54r api i would donate
Onya Corbin! Hero of the hour!
One thing I don't get is why the US doesn't have a Steel Cored AP round akin to the 7.62mm NATO M61 Black Tip but in 5.56mm NATO considering that even the Military supposedly has to pay $15 a round at minimum for the Tungsten cored M995. They would be more economical vs Hard Targets and body armor plus could more readily use tracer versions.
At one point I could have sworn I stumbled across a possible mention of such a round under the 5.56mm NATO article on Wikipedia but it wasn't there when I checked later.
i have to wonder why you wouldn't shoot the IOTV as a whole with the plates properly installed. Not to be pedantic but it's just not realistic tbh..
Thank you for this test. I love how we can build off each other's knowledge!
THE KING OF ARMOR DESTRUCTION
Every now and then, the Internet works as intended
Loved ur 9x39 test video too!
I'm quite pleased with the esapis multi-hit performance, lower end plates have massive cracking from almost any hit, so the very localized containment is impressive imo.
Good takeaways in the comments like this give me hope
@@Oxide_does_his_best I've heard that the xsapi might actually use an aluminum plate to help Bond the strike face together, though it is a bit older, I'm wondering how it performs in this aspect.
@@qwe304 actually if im not mistaken, both the esapi and xsapi use steel crack arrestors embeded in the plates, but seeing that on the tests the plates dont seem to have it, it would seem its rather exclusive to the xsapi line
It probably also comes down to cost and complexity; a complete armor Kit (plate carrier and helmet) and set of plates for a Single US Soldier is supposed to cost Thousands of dollars. Not something you get for a few hundred $ at Ar500 and T-Rex Arms...
@@qwe304 Going Ballistic tested an XSBI (the same thing as XSAPI but a side plate) plate and confirmed that it does have a metal layer.
HOW DID YOU GET DEPLETED URANIUM 308!?!? 🤣. You’ve done it indie! You’ve found the ark!
I'm just wondering were in the hell he found brass cased 5.45x39 lol
Totally !!!!
@@2bidfilmsguyPretty sure Hornady makes a 5.45x39 round.
It belongs in a museum😂
@@Ivan_I99999horny*
This going to be good :)
IMO, if there's one takeaway, it's that IOTV/BALCS backer doesn't just prevent your torso from being filled with shrapnel, it also provides second chances for multi-hit scenarios.
Love running into you on Squad.
Keep up the good work!
Love running armor on squad. You guys should try out the Sealz server. Lots of experienced people on there.
Glad to see cross referencing with buffman. would actually be kinda sick to see a full moderated list of armor piercing rounds from independent youtubers.
extremely curious on the 12.7x55 and how it could stack up against its American cousins like the straight wall AR-15 cartridges like .458 SOCOM (Even though I doubt you can find a penetrator type bullet. I think you can find some solid rounds somewhere). That reminds me of the eternal wait of a good optimized thumper concept round.
The 12.7x55 have multiple AP loadings, one of which has a 76g sabot like bullet with a solid penetrator (probably made of tungsten, although that is simply an educated guess).
Edit: The round I am referring to is the STs-130VPS.
Edit 2: 76g is 1,173 grains and the velocity of the projectile is 980 ft/s. Muzzle energy equates to 2,451 ft•lbs according to “Military Technology” issue 7-8 of year 2020 on page 52 at the end of the first paragraph. So the STs-130VPS has a hard penetrator with a lot of ass behind it.
I agree that it would be supremely interesting to see it tested against western armor, however, considering that the cartridge and their weapons only entered service fairly recently (the first ShAK-12’s were delivered to the FSB in 2011) I believe that they might prove to be the limit of what Oxide can get his hands on. But I would love to be proven wrong!
Source:
monch.com/ebooks/military-technology/2020/07hgr2wcm/52/
Edit 3: Ok I appear to have clowned myself pretty damn hard. I didn’t watch the last 30s at first, but it appears that Oxide will be able to get his hands on a 12x55 rifle and cartridge. I am stumped.
@@Burner_1-one I know it's asking for a lot but would pretty cool to see.
With the AP loading statements I was referring to the AR-15 straightwall/ thumper concept loads (.50 beowulf, .458 SOCOM, .450 bushmaster, and more). Primarily because their designs were evaluated by SOCOM that wanted what 9x39mm and now 12.7x55 offer (heavy sub sonic rounds) but because the AR-15 straightwall cartridges didn't get adopted officially nor do they have any (well known) AP loads. I think the Barnes solid loads got banned because of the funny ATF rulings and that was solid brass IIRC and that's been proven to be not so good at armor penetration.
I'm aware of the 12.7x55 AP loads. It's just the American competitors just don't have those loads known or publicly available. So we can't get a true comparison but can theoretically guess.
.500 Phantom and .470 rhino I didn't mention because like the phantom's name it's basically a ghost and legend ( I believe the custom brass making killed it off pretty quickly). interesting rounds though.
with commercially and still viable rounds .458 is the closest we have. 26g loads @489 m/s putting out 3,148J is fairly close to some of the loads of 12.7x55mm (similar energy to the Sts130VPS load {AP load} , 76g @295m/s producing 3,307j).
.50 Beowulf is actually an outlier to them because alexander arms goes kind of nutty on what they want the round to do (6.5 Grendel having great BC and smaller but comparable to .243) they made the .50 Beowulf a beast. 26g @550m/s producing a hard hitting 3,902 joules.
the caveat is that neither .458 or .50 beo are spitzer types or have active loaded AP rounds that I can find. they make a polymer tipped .458 spitzer but none have penetrators. which is the problem because we can only theoretically guess unless a madman makes some customs. a 458 or 50 style SLAP could probably give 12.7x55mm Sts130VPS a run for its money but it doesn't exist and can't really be tested sadly.
Note: using the metric system instead of the standard American way because I studied a decent amount of physics and easier for my brain to process joules, grams, and m/s. Also got drunk and probably rambling sorry if i did and this makes no sense
@@AceFalken I had actually never heard of .500 phantom or .470 rhino before, for the same reason that they’re hard to find I guess. Same for the .458 spritzer. Can the spritzer be fired through a regular AR-15 magwell? If the casing is the same as .458 socom (I assume) than the bullet would either have to be super short or it would not fit in said magwells. If it is longer than .458 socom then I would assume that it is meant for AR-10 (7,62x54) sized magwells?
I live in Europe and use metric for day-to-day things and for physics and such in uni, but I used imperial here to dodge all of the moaning that usually follow whenever I use metric when discussing cartridges and firearms.
@@Burner_1-one Sorry must have been a little bit of a mishap meant to reply to the other guy with that last comment.
Little confusion on Spitzer is basically how many common bullets are. They come to a fine point. Most common 458 and 50 beowulf loads are flat points (they don't have points). they can't change the length of the round so instead they use a more harsh angle on the bullet to come to the fine point and some times at a slight loss of mass. to have an AP load you'd have to have a Spitzer type bullet. Works the same as the flat noses but more aerodynamic for more range.
They do make some Spitzer for both but are pretty rare and have a polymer ballistic tip to help with expansion while hunting. You could in theory make a mold and replace that tip with steel and make a psuedo penetrator but it wouldn't be an AP round like other rounds. more like M855/SS109. more of a barrier defeating bullet than a armor defeating bullet. If it could get an actual tungsten or steel penetrator it would be AP.
Such a blessing to get multiple armor test vids in such a small amount of time
Great demonstration.
What you do is important in ways you may or may not consider. The US military doesn't disclose these abilities, but it's important to show the guys who depend on these to save their lives in the military that these plates are trustworthy.
Thank you for all you do.
3:39 Ian McCollum at Forgotten Weapons has an Interesting video with a Russian Firearms Expert on the 9x39mm development that might provide insight.
Yes I've posted a card link in this video that points to that one
Dude your production and how efficient you are with dumping info but absorbable at the same time. I don't know why im watching this stuff, but your delivery in everyway keeps me coming back dude. Bravo and mad respect.
Nice to know that the ESAPI is one tough Plate, lines up with what InRangeTV found with testing an Old SAPI plate that was already damaged, sitting out in a desert junkyard for 10 years and still did well vs a threat it wasn't rated for.
Dude, you videos are still very informative and entertaining as always.
Noice pfp
Yes.
Hey Oxide, thanks for giving us informative video and introducing other knowledgeable channels. It is a blessing to subscribe your channel
This video is honestly awesome not many people with 9/39 on youtube its cool to see not only the ammo type but the awesome vss too
Thank for another great video. Interesting, entertaining, and very informative. Anyone that pays attention to these videos will learn so much.
Honestly I hadn’t considered this usage of the VSS and it’s variants and it really clears things up since I’ve been seeing them mainly being used to backup a SVD-S in photos. Great armor test I’m glad to see threats that are very real in todays world I know how hard it is to get any of this ammo for the test so this is a treat
Oxide thanks for always satisfying my what if thoughts, nowadays it’s more like when than if Tho👀
finally new armor tests! I fucking love your content dude
Information is everything. Great stuff dude!
That would be quite interesting to see the performance of 12.7x55. This video was very informative and well made! I think you earned a sub
Dude, another Neotokyo OST enjoyer! Such a good, chill Song. Perfect for testing!
I immediately recognized it and got really happy
I thought that's what it was! Great game, great OST
Good video Oxide! This stuff is really helping me understand more about infantry armor for some stuff I'm writing, so very much appreciated. The kevlar backup made me wonder some things about the IHPS and ECH. They're both primarily polyethylene and block the bullets, but leave lethal deformation. I wonder if a layer of kevlar or titanium backing up the polyethylene would make the helmets super effective. Either way, the ESAPI are definitely way better than the new helm, so I'm glad to see the military has some decent protection. Good stuff!
very hard layer backing the armor is not a good idea
IIRC, this can reduce the potential for proper defeating ability, as there is less room to flex
further, IHPS showing was questionable for me
god damn exactly what I was looking for and what I expected out of these rounds ESAPI is awesome as well!
Recognized that Neotokyo soundtrack two notes in, and it made me very happy. Oxide is truly patrician.
Agreed. That 0edit vibes makes me damn happy. Any recognition for Ed Harrison is good in my books
I am surprised it looked like the 9x39 did more damage then the AP 7.62x39. For it's velocity they are pretty good AP rounds. Not much will actually defeat modern body armour anyway. I am looking forward to 12.7x55 though.
a slower bigger round will pen less but do more blunt trauma theres ur anwser
@@dalejrjunior1298 no
@@Oxide_does_his_best no
Im still of the opinion that we havent saw every existing round in current Russian or Chinese service, tried against Western armors.
Or.
Nor have we saw what might be still under development in Eastern nation arsenals.
And some of what is being done in testing here and elsewhere?
Are approximations....educated, very well done approxoimations,....but approximations nonetheless, of what we "think" might be in existence, versus how that might fair against the given armor under test.
I mean.
For example.
7.62x54 alone has had a Hellascious amount of development poured into its 108+year history.
With AP, API, and even tungsten and explosive tipped bullets having been tested/ developed for it.
And it IS still in general service by a crap ton of countries.
Whereas .308 and .30-06 have taken more of a backseat in the one case and been completely declared obsolete in the other case, in the West. So its difficult to say just how .30-06 might perform if it were modernized or developed furthur than its old black tip iteration. Which seems to be the only version of '06 thats around to be tested these days.
And .308/7.62x51 itself might still have some room for development.
But.
Either way.
I think one thing that IS being revealed by these tests, is that the smaller caliber cartridges in the 5.56-5.45 line?
Have pretty much reached the end of their AP, developmental life.
Their speed and flatish shooting at close to medium ranges might be nice?
But they just dont have enough bullet mass to deliver the necessary amount of metal to meet the meat, across the board, nowadays.
@@Oxide_does_his_best huh? u gotta be kidding right? the bigger the round and the slower it moves obv it will do less pen. xd when ur shooting a 50cal projectile at subsonic speeds its kinda ass
holy shit I probably was around working at the ceradyne facility when those batch of ESAPIs were made, glad to see part of the products I helped make perform well
I rarely watch your videos so I was surprised and delighted by the Neotokyo music
Damn what a tease! I'm totally stoked to see what 12,7x55 would do to body armour. Out of a long and short barrel.
Awesome as always. Love the guns and tech
Really like the neotokyo ost, great sound. Loved the vid 👌🏻
I am very excited for composite metal foams. A simple foam plate with a silicon carbide tile strike face wrapped in dyneema or similar fibers would do wonders.
Buffman is a great channel. I’m glad to see him getting a shoutout.
Finalllllly, been waiting for this one!
Oxide: sorry this this is not too accurate due to some issues
Us: We're just happy you blessed us with this video, man
Keep up the good work my dude,your effort and hard work is very much appreciated
Buffman R.A.N.G.E. is great! He has some of the only 30 Carbine armor piercing tests I have seen. Out of an AutoMag III no less!
Fantastic and informative as always!
Such a good video. Very informative. TY!
One time I was hanging out with Flat Range Operator and my ass exploded.
Jaysus Christ hahaha
The NeoTokyo/Ed Harrison tracks in the recent videos fit so well. Cheers and welcome back.
Damn I love these kind of videos
Oxide uploads right as I get off work, Friday made
dude those three shots were PERFECT
Great content. Thank you
I have been an early subscriber to Buffmans channel. You are completely right. His channel is very under subscribed to. The quality of his videos and the amount of information he provides is substantial. I have been promoting my fellow Michiganders channel for years. I wish I could do more, I hope he gets the recognition he deserves.
Came here from Buffman Range, solid video!
great review love the vid😄😄😄
Keep up the good work from Montana
Never thought I'd hear Neotokyo OST as the background song in a gun video, nice
Background music goes hard, I'm guessing it's from the Neotokyo OST, maybe? Haven't gotten to the end of the video to see if it's credited.
Yes it all is
glad people still remember it lol
Just wanted to throw it out there that I appreciate you using a track from NeoTokyo, love that soundtrack
Good to hear Ed Harrison bangers.
was not expecting to hear Neotokyo OST, excellent choice
Nice Neotokyo OST BGM, what a choice video overall.
Amazing content as usual
holy fuck I'm so hyped to see the DU round test if we get one
Finally someone recognized it
@@Oxide_does_his_best is it lc/70 marked or is it a reload? there were very few made and all in that year, so its a decent indicator. should have significantly better penetration than even SLAP rounds.
@@qwe304 some boomer messed with them so I have to reload. The giveaway is the violet around the primer
@@Oxide_does_his_best I doubt there's any published velocities for that ammo, so you're probably in the dark.
@@Oxide_does_his_best I say just load it hot as you are comfortable with. Also, it's hard to tell from just photos but is the sabot discarding or is it just meant to separate on actual impact?
im loving the neotokyo soundtrack usage
I immediately recognized the neotokyo soundtrack once the video started, I love that ost
Fucking fascinating. It blows my mind that this content is getting put out by this channel while much larger ones make content half as interesting and well done
good to see! that ceramic got less compromised than i had expected!
9x39 BP are pretty badass, so cool to see this in RL.
It's not BP, BP (7N12) is new round more effective than 9x39 SP6 and PAB-9 in video at least by 10%.
I love the ASH-12 I hope you follow up with that, def gonna subscribe so I can see that
Love the Neotokyo OST in the background
12.7x55 looks like a hell of a round
Oxide making history again
The new m5 rifle seems like it is meant to overcome common civilian body armor. 💀😐
Please test in future
OK
Yeah I'd be interested to see the new round as well. So far the math doesn't add up to the claims the military is making about its armor penetration capabilities.
@@smokeeater917 the m5 will use an m80a1 style exposed tungsten penetrator loaded to 100k or so psi to defeat level 4 armor at extended range. Exposed tungsten supposedly is much more effective against ceramic than tungsten core
@@user-oy9zy4ds9m it's only 80,000 psi out of a 13in barrel. The velocity is less than 2600fps. The math isn't there to back up the claim.
@@smokeeater917 no supposedly the AP round will be around 100k psi. 80k for standard ball rounds or training. The 80k still send the 135 grain round about 2900 not 2600. The gun is capable of handling up to 120k psi
Neo Tokyo soundtrack. Nice. The first song is Hiroden 651 if anyone is curious.
is that Branden Herreras VSS? thats his camera guy/ gunsmith @ 4:38
That is Zach yes
This is much more relieving then the ihips, glad to know my brother can take most of these rounds (especially since they won’t really be used by most soldiers).
my man out here using the Neo Tokyo OST by Ed Harrison?
My man's taste in music is great.
ASH 12 is my favourite Russian firearm. I'd love it if you got it on the show
You are the first I've seen with actual 9x39 ap projectiles, is a pity you didn't spend more prep time figuring out an acceptable charge to get closer to 1050fps. This would have also allowed fire-formed brass with a shoulder to work with. If you want a comparison I can send you some of my 365gr cast projectiles to try out, though with that 7" barrel length you'd still be pressed to see 900fps.
Awesome channel 👍😄👍
I glad that you did bring up the question about why 9x39mm but not 7.62x39 subsonic, but at the end you still can't solve that question. The question isn't anything about the gun but the ammunition alone
For the 12.7 subsonic, i feel like your best bet would be to have only a barrel made for that cartridge. Cheeper than sourcing a ShAK. Good luck man
Would probably be easiest to just load it into a breach loading 50 caliber, but at lower velocity
I had never heard of Dynema before today but it looks like a really cool product
awww man, Neotokyo soundtrack. Goddamn, havent heard that in a while
when an oxide video directly causes an escape from tarkov ammo nerf
I would love to see a video on the ASH-12 as its a pretty mysterious weapon to me. I haven't found much good reference on how it works or why it was even invented.
ASH12 was made for close quarters anti terror operations for the FSB where they needed to be able to defeat a hostile in armor in one shot without any over penetration, i saw a few videos but i dont have the links to it but its not a common gun, ive never been able to find an actual reference picture of it being used unlike the VSSK which i have seen a few of but its also a rare gun.
I doubt anyone but the actual Russians are going to get that video out. There are no private sources for those guns at all unlike the ~relatively common VSS and AK12, AK105 etc.
@@deltaforce2780 Well thing is its not even meant to penetrate armor, after Incidents when terrorists were on heavy drugs and just kept going after being shot even if it penetrated armor. Thing desighned in a way to drop anyone down just by force alone
Glad see my plates work :)
My prediction would be that those plates would stop all of the ash 12 rounds since theyre subsonic but id be surprised if it stopped the supersonic loading of the vssk
"oxide...wheres the full rifle threat - please be quiet" LOL bro
CIF just around the corner waiting for turn in day to rip you to shreds 👀😂 haha . Great video love to see it 👍🏽
Good stuff man!
Can't wait for your Chinese issued plate tests done by you, also is there a possibility like for example in Canada due to Chinese arm export there to test Western plates with Chinese 5.8×42mm?
5.8X42mm is not exported at all to any country outside of china unfortunately so that is impossible. All export versions of the 5.8X42mm rifles are rechambered in 5.56.
@@REIDAE Damn that sucks
Interesting I wonder if sandwiching the ceramic between two thin plates of aluminum could be the key to defeating tungsten penetrators, it's clear that they barely made it through so perhaps simply spoiling the angle of entry could be enough to reduce the penetration by forcing it to find more resistance against the layers of ceramic.
Отличное видео,но если бы вам удалось достать и протестировать 7н24,7н39 и 7н40.Было бы вообще прекрасно
Зачем? и так все ясно, 7н22, черный носик, держит один, два других пробило,один из которых застрял в кевларе, до 7н24 разницы практически нет, 7н40 это патрон повышенной кучности, для меткого бойца из отряда с новым стволом и оптикой, о пробиваемости речи нет.Удивило, что её пробил 7.62\51 бронебойный, надо было отстреливать свежим 7.62\54 б-32 бз, результат интересен, должна держать, но цена плиты и вздутие которое она дает от 7.62\39 бз пипец! Гранит бр5 6а Техинком и Щёлковская будут получше, единственное, наши тяжелее , т к из оксида алюминия.
Great test, I'm glad to know if things get hot over here (Korea) I can rely on my gear.
I may be there this year brother
@@Oxide_does_his_best really? Do you know what you are flying yet? (I assume you find out at the end of flight school?)
@@samh.6788 gimme a month
@@Oxide_does_his_best No problem, best of luck to you.
god Im so happy i found you're channel with the altyn helmet video, ik this sounds like a fed question but where do u get all your guns i want cool ass guns aswell
Oh how I've waited.
Not being a gun person myself, I think the 9x39 AP ammo types are some of the coolest rounds in the world
dude how many firstborns have you got, goddamn
Let’s go
I don't know if it's in your field of expertise, but I would like a video comparing the NIJ and the GOST body armor standard.
I have ESAPI - REV . E Plates. When I ETS out of the Army Infantry. I had ended up with an Extra Set of Plates. I turned in the Old Plates and kept the New Ones issued for my Afghanistan Deployment. I also have Soft Armor Backing for the Plates. So I am pretty comfortable with the stopping ability. I am literally wearing the same Armor I wore in Afghanistan
My brother in Christ
I wonder if pab-9 is still made seeing that it is no longer in service with RUAF
lets go! I knew the backer would come in to save the day!
Neotokyo soundtrack, very cool