Snow vs Katniss - How Similar Are They?
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
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Katniss tried so hard to not care about people but her nature, as you point out, was to care about them and she couldn't help it. Snow tried to look like he cared about people but he couldn't. Amazing video!
I thought it was very interesting in the book watching him be radicalized into the belief system he had, through childhood trauma and hardship, as well as directly through his education. It was also interesting seeing how his classmates reacted to this, how some were fully sold into thinking the district citizens weren’t fully human, and some of his classmates pushed back against that way of thinking. Suzanne Collins really does a phenomenal job showing us the nature vs nurture debate in practice.
I love your hunger games videos, keep up the great work!
i think that most villian and hero combinations have a lot of similarities with each other. The first example that comes to mind, other than katniss and snow, is harry potter and voldemort. Both were orphans who grew up in an abusive living situation, harry at his aunts and uncles and voldemort in the orphanage. They both grew up in the muggle world and only found out about their magical abilities when they turned 11. Both were popular students who got a lot of praise in forms of house points and awards. Both created "armys" to fight against their respective enimies (each other), harry creating dumbledores army and voldemort had the death eaters. Basically the only difference there is that harry understood the meaning of love and voldemort couldnt even feel it due to being conceived under a love potion.
I think thats the best type of vilian -hero combination because its more interesting to see how people who are so similar can end up on different sides and turn out so different.
Love potion didn’t make Voldemort unable to feel love. It was just symbolic of how he couldn’t feel love.
actually it did. If you are concieved while one of your parents are under a love potin, that makes it so that you yourself are imune to love which means you cant feel or express it. @@jasonjungreis203
I’ve also never thought to compare Coriolanus to Prim until seeing this video. In my next read I’ll be thinking of those parallels.
They have pretty different personalities as one understands it.
Also a really random but kinda interesting coincidence is that at the end of both their books (for Katniss just the first) they both have killed four. The last being something so very significant in their lives. For Snow, Lucy Gray who probably haunted that man till the day he died. And for Katniss, Cato. One of the most horrific deaths in the book that traumatized her. I remember reading cato's death scene and wanting to cry since that was really just a boy trying to survive as well. Idk random thing but i thought it was kinda cool and very much fit the the fact that while a lot of their situations are the same, a majority of the circumstances are vastly different and especially how they take it and how they react
Well, it's not clear if Lucy Gray died. In fact, the intent from the book (and thankfully the film too) is that it's vague and we don't know. This matches the end of the song she's named after. You can believe she was killed, but it's not clear either way. :)
The fact that Snow is an egoisthical person can be seen even because of how he treats Sejanus: he gave him kindness but behind his back he tought of him as A PRIVILEGED BOY, AS AN INFERIOR PERSON BECAUSE HE ISN'T A "TRUE CAPITOLITE"
This video was great! This made me think of. The scene in Catching Firre where Katniss believes Finnick has betrayed her, but realizes the Capital is the real enemy and fires against them instead, while in the prequel when Snow believe Lucy has betrayed him with the snake hee immediately freaks out and try to kill her, letting his paranoia take over. Those moments while not a direct 1:1 really show who each of them are to the core.
They're very similar and both have the same personality type, INTJ. Snow experiences a particular dynamic namely imminent loss of social status. That is probably something particularly likely to make one resort to extreme measures given studies on things such as people's financial decisions being made more by the delta change in what they have rather than the absolute level alone. (For instance why do the poor buy lottery tickets more than the rich when the latter have a better expected payoff in doing so) It's also the de facto causal theme of a lot of books, especially Agatha Christie's (many old books) where people from a well-off or aristocratic background who get into trouble get desperate and use any means they can to get out of the mess, for instance, financial trouble. BTW in terms of the way they (Such as Snow-Gray) love, it's worth pointing out that the possessive type of love is a natural INTJ trait, it's innate to them and that's just how they do it, probably genetic or gene expression linked (Male and Female ones). They just do not trust anything or anyone by nature and require mental security and there's nothing they hate more than being made a fool of which is something they go to great lengths to avoid. To be fair to em they're usually not hypocrites so they live by the same sword and die by it, as in they follow the same rules they set for others and don't expect things they can't do themselves from others. The particular dynamic Snow faced in terms of social demobility is a brutal outcome that really tends to bring out the worst in people and causes them to totally abandon means for ends. Had Snow been born in a still rich family he'd probably have been happy to just do some high-level job and/or chase some political office within the social bounds of the elite/establishment. The social demobility made him utterly desperate and once he spilled blood it made him think what's the point of holding back now (Another INTJ trait-"If it's worth doing it's worth overdoing" and "Once I commit a crime morally it should matter little how many times I do so" type viewpoint) that it's come to this. He also naturally had a victimhood + supremacy complex at the same time (his type usually has only the latter-his lot in life probably led to the former) which is among the most dangerous cocktails there can be in an individual or a group as it produces the most lethal outcomes.
Thank you for your comment! I have to push back on your view of INTJ's though. It's very "by the book" - which works for Snow - but lacks the nuance. I mean, Katniss yes is also that personality and doesn't exhibit the traits you mention as innate to that kind of personality (not to mention, I have someone very close to me who is INTJ and exhibits none of those either). This is a common error of Myers-briggs thinking, not allowing for variety within the 16 personalities. And I say this as someone who found learning about her own quite helpful to navigating her personal flaws/weaknesses. :) I could be misreading your comment, but it just came across wrong to me. XD
@@TheGeekApprentice Well I hope I know better than to try to convince an INFJ lol, it's nigh impossible, and won't even purport to try.😆🤣Formal psychometric ones like MMPI 2 are better, they have 500+ questions and these days we use a lot of genetic, gene expression, bloodwork, etc. variables in addition to ones like census variables for studies. One has to usually try to stratify any data by as many variables as humanly possible. Female INTJ's are rare, seen maybe half a dozen in all (Who've taken the test). Only pattern can think of is that most came from families that are big landowners. (Could be a regional thing tho seen in people over 1000+ km apart) From what have experienced and seen INTJs usually oscillate btw don't care isolation mode and phases of tenderness (Mostly show love by doing things for one and rely on pattern recognition to create routines to do the convectional romantic stuff). Nearly all those seen have innate trust issues and take any kind of loyalty seriously. (Give and expect) Katniss largely seems to exhibit le independent/isolation approach to love punctured with pangs of need as I read it. They usually show it by doing things. Also, tend to first focus on security before do anything else. *There's definitely a ton of intra-type variance and even with stuff like genetic data which I often work with the inheritability is around 50% variance explained on average across traits. (Varies a lot by trait-each trait can have lots of specific genes for it, complex ones like IQ have~3000 known ones, and simple ones like complexion have a few esp slc24a5 and slc45a2)
@@williamman900katniss is a ISTP
I also think it’s very interesting how Snow and Katniss are similar in their small acts of defiance (which is super important in sparking the rebellion in Katniss’ case), and that became so clear in the first half of the prequel. Just like Katniss unintentionally defies the Capitol during the Hunger Games by allying with Rue, singing to her and dignifying her death, and threatening to kill herself and Peeta with the poising berries -thus depriving them of a victor-, Snow defies the Capitol by stealing food for Lucy Gray and cheating in the games to make her win, although not fully realizing that those actions undermined the so important control held by the Capitol. The only difference is that Katniss does all of that out of empathy and mostly selflessly, but Snow does it for his personal benefit (their main difference, as you pointed out).
Brilliant
I’ve never really given this topic a lot of thought, but I think you really nailed it. (Also you’re having a good hair day, and as a fellow curly haired person I know how hard those can be to get)
Thank you so much! And amen! Curly hair can be such a curse lol
I believe your analysis is spot on. I love listening to your reasonings, they are so rational , you seem a highly intelligent person to me. You always give me food for thought and I really appreciate your reflection. I can hardly wait to see the prequel, I am going tomorrow, Nov. 17, at 16.00 Spain time. Looking forward to your comments when you see it too. Take care geek!
after watching the new movie I don't think so snow was a bad guy at the beginning i think he was a bit elitist but i think he actually cared for the ppl and i also think he truly was an empathetic person who cared for the ppl but i forget who specifically warned him but they warned about how the other district ppl would take advantage of him and stab him in the back given the opportunity and he didn't believe them at first but was proven wrong and at that point i don't blame him for pulling a 180. i also think he truly had given up on his life of power once he started to be a grunt in district 12 he seemed sad or conflicted once he got the orders of a promotion , i truly feel like Lucy kind of made him into the snow we grow to know , i know im suppose to hate him but i just feel bad for him now and honestly i don't see him as the villain just a product of his environment in the context of this movie , i also think he was helping Lucy out of care for her and self preservation because if it was truly self preservation he wouldn't ask to be moved to district 12 and you find out he used all of his money to get their i think he is the def of the straw that broke the camels back . in a weird way i see Lucy more in a evil light then him in the context of the movie obv he gets much worse . idk i loved what they did with him i think hes a lot more interesting then catnis ever was to me maybe because i just saw her as alittle to stoic ( i don't really care for stoic characters ) god i love this series i really need to read the books
You can feel bad for him and still recognize that he was a narcissistic psychopath from birth - circumstances brought out his worst self
And to add, since I think you haven't read the books, if you read them you'd realize how inherently bad he is and how good both Katniss and Lucy Gray are. :)
What do you mean by stoic? She seems pretty emotional and expressive to me with the singing, the lyrics, her body language, and philosophizing. I think she isn't pure like Prim but I'm curious as to what would make you see her as evil? To be clear I find Snow compelling as well but I do think there were alternative and apparent solutions to some of his problems.
I love this. Its sad that People are empathizing with snow after seeing the prequel. He was done wrong but its no reason to act yhe way he did in his old age as president
Yeah, Snow as written is supposed to be a warning about how people become fascists, not a "hot dangerous guy to simp for" as I saw one young person put it.
I really hope Ms Collins writes more about Snow, his rise to power and the development of the Hunger Games. It's so well written, and it's important to talk about why those totalitarian ideas are wrong.
I have not read the book so I still have to make up my mind but it's clear that Snow takes from those he "loves" and Katniss gives
i think snow thought katniss pretended to care for others but really only cared for herself. i always read the scene of snow reacting to katniss being relieved that peeta didn't die from the forcefield as snow realizing he was wrong, and i still think that after the prequel.
Very interesting comparison. Very accurate. Totally agree. Greetings from Poland. I'm going to the cinema tomorrow...
This is another version of the Harry Potter vs. Voldemort dynamic. The villain and hero seem sooo different, but how different are they really?
Hey girl. I’m really excited to hear your movie review on this. I won’t say what my opinion is but I feel on your review video. Can’t wait !!!
Just want to say I love your channel!
Brilliant analysis! Congratulations!
I was actually wondering what you thought about the idea that Lucy Gray is Pres. Coin. I’ve seen so many videos about it but wanted your opinion on it, since you’re so well spoken about these topics!
Considering the 2 characters are total opposites, I think that theory is nonsense. 😅 Not to mention it defeats the poetic nature of Lucy Gray disappearing like the song she’s named after.
I have seen a lot of more people saying Lucy was coins mother. Which would make more sense age wise & the amount that coin knew about snows secrets & how to mess with him can't be coincidence.
I love your hunger games videos. Can't wait to hear your review of tbosas movie!
Since watching this it brings to mind on how they (Katniss and Snow) talk to each other starting in Catching Fire. I knew Snow was pulling springs that Katniss didn’t want anything with until she saw it first hand. How hard she tried to protect everyone especially Peeta until she got herself into her own head. Then their interactions in Mockingjay. That makes so much sense now. Though I'm only a quarter through Snakes and Songbirds, I could tell Snow was a bad guy but I thought it was the people around him doing it. Now I need to finish it to truly see how bad is colors are.
Enjoy the movie geek. I can't wait to hear all of your thoughts after you've seen it.
BYE I THOGHT U WERE INSULTING THEM
when did you have your pschology classes? because my latest information is that medical psychology strongly leans to the side of "nurture" defining a person's character and being rather than a genetical, born-with "nature" (to stick to your terms). estimates go as high as 90/10 even though most revolve around some 70/30 ratio
It’s a bit like Apollo vs Artemis.
I read some comments and in one of them you said that you don't believe in the theory that Lucy Grey comes back as Alma Coin. But now i want to know what do you think about the theory that either Lucy Grey or Maude Ivory are Katniss ancestors??
I have a video about that actually. Short version, I believe Maude Ivory could be the grandmother of Katniss
Nice
sadly the new movie removes a lot of depth form the characters
I disagree! I thought they did Snow justice! Especially when you consider there's only so much they can do. :)
All I can say is.
Movie, it's figurative and theatrical.
If compared to the books, it's shortened and underwhelming