The Incredible FX30, and IT'S ONE FLAW
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2023
- I've loves shooting on Sony's FX30, but I've ran into 1 problem shooting on it. The 120fps function of the camera produces so much noise, it's almost always unusable.
DropBox link to footage:
www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/bqo4il...
Gear I use:
Main camera: amzn.to/3SPd1g1
Second camera: amzn.to/3mlncMW
Monitor: amzn.to/3nAqpsT
2nd Monitor: amzn.to/3KlKn3o
35mm: amzn.to/3IWafkw
24mm: amzn.to/3yz2hsV
50mm: amzn.to/41NjhZG
85mm: amzn.to/3SWmKkv
Mic: amzn.to/3F0l5VA
Light: amzn.to/3ZM7t7Y 
Кино
Test this out: use your multi meter (set to multi) and overexpose to +1.7-2.0.
I'm new on this whole camera thing..but such info is so helpful
I can relate to your feeling. Unfortunately I had to return a camera for the first time. I just couldn't deal with the noise and the low "Low light performance" second native ISO at 2500 is not cutting it for me. I tend to shoot in crappy locations more often that I would want to so went with the ZVe1 since I have the FX3. Keep it up great content
Thanks man. Yeah I get you completely on this, I’m much more selective on when I use this cam now, but still think it knocks it out of the park in 24 and 60(most times). Curious how the ZVe1 is?
I got an FX30 on it's release day, I was so excited about the 4k 120 specs of this camera. I was shooting a lot of football content and when I first ran into noise issues I always thought it was that the sensor just wasn't getting enough light (part of the case) in the stadiums I was at. But then after switching to 4k 60 I realized how much cleaner the image was with the exact same exposure reading. Even in broad daylight where I needed an ND filter, I noticed the noise in the blacks of my footage and the decrease in sharpness at 120p, especially when comparing the footage to an A7siii. I switched over from Slog-3 to S-Cinetone at 120 and that has helped out a bit with the image quality. But I was disappointed at how even when I had blown highlights, I still had so much noise in the blacks. I still absolutely love the FX30 but I sort of wish I just shelled out the cash for an FX3 because I love shooting at 120
With the same lighting, I assume 4k120 has twice the shutter speed of 4k60, so your light is 50% less already there. Then the 4k120 is 1.6x crop vs 4k60 at much smaller crop, so that's again more than 50% less light on the 4k120. So noise would already be 4x right there based on simple physics.
I get better results putting my LUT as a custom profile and just using that instead of Slog3. It's a better workflow for this camera, unless you are trying to match with other cameras. If you want clean 120fps, you can use HD and upscale it to 4K in post. That also opens up the door to 240 HD which is similar to 120 4K noise wise. Resolves noise reduction deals with the noise pretty well so it is fine with me.
That’s good to know, in my case I’m usually always trying to match other cameras so I need to stay in SLog3
@@willthedp That is wat Slog3 is best for according to Sony. Please experimient with it. I am not sure how I can get cleaner results at High ISO with a custom LUT as profile than with Slog3' second ISO. There is something going on there. It might be that it is a cleaner sensor and that is why they dont go high on the noise reduction. Who knows
Picture profiles have in camera noise reduction. Slog 3 has most dynamic range and most flexibility when matching different cameras. There is no Best. If don't know what your end colors are going to be, it makes sense to use Slog 3 also otherwise, just use PPOFF, PP1 or SCinetone or a Custom lut. Ironically because the FX30 is a clean sensor, Slog 3 does not apply heavy noise reduction and preservers the detail. on PP you can to 4000 ISO pretty clean and usable to 6400. You Probably about +2 overexposed in CineEI high otherwise You will need noise reduction. but that is not a bad thing.
Define best. Best dynamic range and flexibility in controlled environments like studio or recording fiction. I get less noise using the LUT in a PPLUT picture profile. RUclipsrs talk big, but in real projects, Slog3 is not always the right choice
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I have the FX3 and the FX30 and the 120 footage on the FX30 falls way short of the FX3. For me it works most of the time because I'm using it outside in good light, but I'm glad I have the FX3 any other time.
Nice man, yeah having that combo is so good, they compliment and cover each others weaknesses really well.
Good video man, appreciate the honesty on the camera. Buying one this week and I’ll be well prepared 💯
Very interesting find. If I'm not mistaken, the FX30 has the same processing power as the FX3 and also the same memory card slots.
Maybe it could be improved in an update?
what ISO were you at on 4k120? I know at one point you say you shot at a higher iso for the low light stuff but what about the outdoor footage?
Outdoor middle of the day stuff was all shot at 800
Just watched your video on getting clean images at 120. ISO200 works a charm.
I came up with a solution to shoot with a custom profile that is not log for low light using Cine4 gamma and slog 3 color and I can match it with my log footage nicely. And Honestly, with YT conversion I can't see the noise you are referring to in the 120. After YT conversion it looks same as 60. I thought the gals on the horses shot looked great.. Indoors in low light I agree and I don't shoot log because of the noise. thus why the custom Cine4 profile. in low light.
Ive only shot 120 a few times and I gotta be honest, they looked insanely clean for me. I even went back to dig through some footage I shot in 120 and I didnt notice anything. I DID however hear there is a dramatic different shooting in 120 S&Q vs just changing your frame rate. Maybe experiment with that? Im going out to Cali tomorrow for a trip and will be shooting alot and im gonna test that out and see if im noticing noise even in bright lit places and try both in S&Q and changing my frame rate
Very interesting observation. What were your findings after digging deeper?
@@UrbaneVisions I found (I believe Jason Morris noticed this aswell) that shooting 120 in S&Q and 120 NOT in S&Q...theres something different happening. If my exposure is set right in CineEI, I get no noise in 120....but if i switch that to S&Q - i see it. So theres something with S&Q where denoising isnt happening in camera? Which is probably why in this video hes claiming he needs it VERY bright and over exposed than you normally would because its the same with RAW and I shoot in RAW ALOTTT...if you expose over (im talking maybe 2.5+ stops over), i have to do literally ZERO denoise in post with RAW. I see absolutely none. The darker the image? Yea, I have to denoise like crazy but I feel maybe in S&Q the internal Denoise either isnt working right or its bypassing it almost completely
Very interesting 👍🏻 I think you can match a ZVE1 better with the FX6 as the FX30 🤔
What are you shooting with to do this portrait video? Which lens as well? Really like the depth of field. Thank you.
FX6 and 35mm 1.4 ZA
Amazing!
60 frames per seconds it's enough for me
Hey Will. Great video! Late to the party, but I just got the FX30 and I’ve had no issue with the 120 in terms of noise so long as my slog 3 is overexposed up to +2.0. And I was up to about 6400 iso. Not saying it was totally clean but once the shadows were darkened in post it looked great. That seems to be the trick to nailing the 120 conundrum. The huge issue I had was more with rolling shutter at 120. It’s god awful!
Thanks for the advice! I’ll have to try that out
Good quality!
The oversampling only goes up to 4k/60, so that's lost going to 120p. Even zooming in 1.62x in 4k/60 - shows it is less noisy than the 120p.
Did not know that, thanks for sharing this info, really good to know.
I’m located in Austin as well. Great video!
Very cool, thank you
I know you already stated what matte-box you used, but which matte-box would be adequate for the 24mm and 10-20mm lens ?
I would just adapt the matte-box I have with step up rings, that's what I do with the 24mm already, need to get one for the 10-20
Hey, I liked the color you are using when you're talking. Where did you get that LUT or did you use davinci?
It’s the Phantom Neutral LUT for FX6
Thanks man! New subscriber here!
I don’t use 120p- but up to 60p the FX 30 delivers great images even up to ISO 6400 in S Log 3- a bit of DaVinci NR & the oversampled sensor …
Agree!
“Had it beat into my head that anything that wasn’t full frame was not worth shooting on” - like the Alexa Mini and the Alexa35?
Duh? Jawohl! Today, we often forget that many Hollywood films were shot with film, small hunks of film. 😎😎😎
I feel like the thing people don't bring up enough. Is the bad rolling shutter this camera has. Immediately makes it bad for any fast moving shots.
I guess fx30 also shoots 120fps in 1080p. How does it compare to 4k, just as noisy or worse, or maybe better? And which pp was used. Slog3 has the most noise, I noticed (I have A7C) that Cine2 has the least noise, and I use it in low light conditions.
Any tips on cinematic Luts for the FX30 / rec.709 conversion luts?
Phantom LUTs work really well with the FX30
@@willthedp thank you! Really well done on these videos keep it up👍
So how would you prevent or remove grain in post? Also nice video
I use Neat video when I have to, although it slows down Premiere and export time big time
filming in 60 FPS, stabilize in Catalyst Browse, afterwards make slower in FCPX via Retime, after= Optical Flow, it works very nice. Don`t need 120 fps at all
Reasonable solution for me is to turn off S-LOG3 and then in the Picture Profile settings I have Gamma ITU709 and Color Mode S-Gamut3.Cine.
While it's not a flat profile, it still provides me with a significant amount of maneuvering room and the noise level is much lower.
Even underexposed at -1.7 and ISO 2500 it remains usable.
Useable 4k120p is reserved intentionally by Sony for their 12MP full frame cameras which has faster CMOS and much larger pixel size.
How is the 120 frames using 1080p? I wonder if it’s better for noise being its using more of the sensor? Albeit binned or line skipped, but it’s not cropping into an already small sensor? Just a thought.
No clue, haven't shot any 1080 on this cam
I just got an fx30 and shooting 1080, not using slog, my footage has considerable noise even in lower iso like 1600. Any recommendations?
I’ve never shot 1080 with the fx30, but it’s clean in 4k at 24 and 60 fps
Thanks for posting. How fast were your lenses? Could shooting at 1.4 to 1.8 have helped? I watch another post where shooting at a faster f/t stop cleaned up the noise issue pretty efficiently. Very curious to know.
Thanks
Can you name which lenses you used on this film for Sony? I don't worry about noise anymore, not like before. By the way, the movie is beautiful.
50mm 1.2, 24mm 1.4, and 10-20 f4. Thank you!
I sold this camera because of the poor noise performance. But to be fair, its 2500 ISO is usable, if you apply some denoising in the post. The 6400 ISO is not usable for sure, and 3200 is suspect. Remember it's 1.6x crop from APS-C in 4k 120, so the sensor size is tiny at that, and noise performance for that size sensor at ISO 2500 is probably bad, as it's about 80% of a 1" sensor for 4k120 .
The 4k120 is actually a 2.13x crop I think..which is even bigger than the m43 from panasonic so you sadly cant cheat the physics of the amount of light hitting the sensor..I still think that the best and cleanest 4k120 without af is sadly the gh6 but considering the price of the fx30, there were going to have some compromises for sure! What about 1080p 120 or it does not have that option? I seriously think sony released that for people starting out or existing a7s3/fx3/fx6 users to have an affordable b-cam that match really well.
I'm not sure if you are correct by saying that the sensor becomes like a 4/3 because what happens is a crop resample of the same sensor (like you are zoomed in....so I don't think that physics as nothing to do with it because the light coming through the sensor is the same.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
@@gabrielemariotti5780Facts. The only thing that happens is the same as zooming in post the noise becomes bigger because of the reduced pixel density
It's because you are losing TONS of resolution when shooting in 120p. It's a massive crop on top of a crop sensor camera. Can't cheat physics. When shooting in low light, you really should be using the FX3/FX6/A7Sii/ZV-E1. The FX30 is great, but only for daytime use or well lit venues.
Exactly my reason for making this video, but you said it in a much more put together way, thanks.
It is not the resolution you are losing, it is the oversampling. Oversampling on the smaller sensors allows for some compensation of noise which is otherwise present. When you shoot at 120 fps you crop down, lose the oversampling and consequently increase the apparent noise (since it is no longer being averaged out)
Using active stabilization and focus breathing compensation will do similar things, albeit to a smaller extent.
Buy 1.4 lenses and shit cine ei and you will be fine in the dark.
which camera did you use to shot yourself in this video??
Sony FX6
The problem is you need to overexpose in low light, your log was definitely not exposed right, use cine ei. If it looks good on the screen in low light on sony its underexposed, learned the hard way, daylight looks great and low light looks like shit. A7s3 user
As someone without a ton of money and who doesn’t have another camera for shooting 120fps, uh… I’d probably just reserve 120 shots for well lit situations and us 60fps otherwise. Great points though!
They noise at 120fps isnt showing up on my iPhone.
What about the zve1 don't you think it would be better than the FX30?
I don’t know I’ve never used the zve1, but I’ve seen some really good footage from them
What kind of nd filters you using man? Pic so clean af!! 🙌🏼
The Polar Pro 2-5 stop ND with mist on a lot of the shots, thanks!
Ofc the noise levels will be bad since 120fps is 1/240 shutter meaning you have 5 times less light entering the sensor compared to 24fps. So if you're already tight on light and can't increase your exposure through aperture, shutter speed or actual lights on set, do not use 120fps. It's not the fault of the fx30. It's simple physics.
Fx3 handles better because of the low read noise of the sensor plus the high noise reduction in camera.
How does it look using S-Cinetone vs S-Log 3?
Great question, I never shoot S-Cinetone which is why I didn’t include it in the video. I may test it out to see the difference.
@@willthedp I just got mine and am waiting for a Type A card to try out 120. I am having issues with Premiere playing back any of the footage. DaVinci has no problems with it, even After Effects handles it well. I don’t know what the issue is with Premiere.
So what is the best low light Sony camera around the same price range?
ZV-E1 probably, have never used it though
i havent even tested my 120 setting yet. ill have to try it today. Ive also heard there is not a real dual base iso. at 2500 iso its much noisier than at 800.
I think the problem is you don't know what dual base ISO is.
Those values are for optimal dynamic range, not noise. 2500 is going to be noiser than 800. When you shoot at 2500 you are not eliminating noise, you are maximising your dynamic range so that your ability to grade is optimized.
Why not just use slog 2 with 120 the noise would hypothetically be less noticeable within, well that's what I've found with other Sony cameras atleast
Great suggestion, I’ll have to try it out
Having use this camera for only like 3 mo. Ive shot several events and the camera does well. The real flaw to me is how bad the HD 1080P looks like. I was filming for about 3-4hrs and was running short on SD cards. I went to 1080 to save space and the image was trash.
thanks for letting me know, have not shot any 1080 on it
3:00 why do the fingers look so minecraft blocky on the outside?
Just checked and I don't have a clue why it's doing that, I've used that clip in many places and it's never done that, good eye for catching that.
I'm guessing noise reduction at certain intensity makes certain parts blocky, at least for me. Not sure if the same thing happened on this shot though.
Are you also saying 24/60p has good high ISO performance ?
Haven’t had problems with that, still a little noise but usable for me
I've been screaming this since I got mine...... I stick to S_Cinetone and bright daylight now when shooting 120... Or I just stay away altogether
Good call on that, I stay away completely now
When this man said nothing but full frame is worth it… I laughed hard. Personally, my favorite sensor is the super35 which is the sensor of Sony cameras before the a7s. But I’m glad you realized, it’s probably the best sensor to shoot on. Then again that’s my opinion. There are no wrong answers in art.
There is an interesting video where a guy shows a FX30 4k 120fps workaround with examples. Here is the video: ruclips.net/video/_vbsgNP1y6w/видео.html&ab_channel=ReachFilms. It's a great when the scene doesn't have that wide of a dynamic range and you can get away with it. It definitely makes it useable in certain situations.
I'm thinking about going with fx30 or the a7iv. But don't know, after this video I think i probably will go with a7iv
i returned my fx30 after 1 week. the low light perfomance is terrible. i got now the fx3
Way too much cropping going on with this camera, just get the a7 IV it's better in almost every aspect and by now probably available second hand for great prices.
06:35 exactly ☑️
It's because of the crop no ?
Bought it, didn't like the APS-C... sent it back 2 hours later and bought a another A7IV for my 2nd shooter.
The noise didn´t bother me (I use the FX30 too, the best video camera I ever owned in 40 years), but your often unsharp face bothered me a little. A 1.2 lens for blogging??? Please not! :)
The TLDR: @6:30
But why be sorry about noise out clip! Let Sony see that and fix it 🎉
Man thanks for saying that and helping me think about it differently, cheers
to a point you can use Topaz Video AI, on Proteus setting, but keep the detail boosting very low to keep it tasteful. Otherwise it gets this weird uncanny valley look if its done too heavily
seems this guy never shot on the Blackmagic cameras xD
never had a problem with mine
there are no miracles here ...
People need to learn how to expose log.
Switching to log doesn't benefit you much, unless you learn to expose it correctly (varies depending on thr camera, base iso etc)
Any film maker worth his/her salt would never consider a super sharp sensor. It's not what film is about.
lol okay…
@@willthedp Why the 'lol' bit? Did you find it funny or you have no idea?
did you use log in low light? because you do not use log in low light. learn the basics first!
6 min of faff when it's actually user error
A mirrorles canera without the photo festures. No waveforms… but they call it cinema camera. This thing is a big joke to me
Its 1080p is also absolute garbage too.
The rolling shutter is HORRIBLE!!! It's enough for sony to remove this from their lineup.
Я на телефоне не вижу никакого шума. О чём речь? Душнила...