Thanks for the info on panel prep and flowcoat grits! As someone still relavtively new to paint and body work I'm always picking up useful info from the narration.
Hi buddy, thank you, I always used to use 600, and I know many use 800, but I experimented with the different grits, and 400 is as good but definitely better for adhesion, It's also what I use on headlights now. Again, the finish is just as good, cheers mate 👍
Hi mate, the Wider4L is low pressure but not particularly low volume, I think at 16 psi it uses around 10 cfm which is a fair bit at such a low pressure
Spraying with these copies the 1st thing I noticed was the air pressure needed to run them. An experienced painter will immediately pick up on that. Making manual settings and then taking note of the pressures is what I do. Great comparison Pete, although they both look fantastic!
Hi Buddy, Yes, agreed completely. They do need more pressure than say an Iwata W400 to perform ok. By upping the pressure, we are upping the air consumption, so the selling point of low air consumption is completely negated. Some don't seem to let people know this, which is a shame. Thanks mate 👍
Hi Pete , Yeah I bought one of these (saigole) , I needed a gun that I didn't care about ... My fluid tip was super tight like yours was , but after a few cleans is perfectly fine now (fyi they do wear in) They're pretty good for the money , I think if you were a home tinkerer that only did small jobs here n there , it would be perfectly fine 👍 , it's an ok all rounder that's cheap for how well it sprays . Only issues I have with it are the trigger needs more of a curve at the bottom and I find myself bumping the air screw for some reason (the last thing is more of my own fault I think)
Hi Andrew, Yeah, I think they are worth the bit extra over the R500, and because the Saigaole works better at a lower pressure, it uses less air than the R500 which is of concern to many, cheers buddy 👍
Hi Pete, I do like your comparison videos as you always put 2 like for like guns together as you have here, the Saigaole did seem to be the better gun here but it's a shame the tip needed to be so tight to get a seal as this is something that would bug me and it's the only thing that I don't like about my WS400 Series 2 having to tighten it up so much just to get the split tip to line up with the airhorns🙄 I found the same with my R500 that you need around 35 psi to get the best out of the gun for clear but it's a good basecoat gun and I found that it also lays WoW primer really nice. It's also a shame the some people on here say it doesn't use much air I think you are right in saying the the people reviewing this gun probably have a big compressor which will run them fine and just quote the spec from the gun saying it only uses 4 CFM but it's more like double that🤨🤠 Cheers Pete👍
Hi John, Yeah, I do try to put things up against each other that are relevant in some way. I do get asked to do some rather odd comparisons, which just wouldn't be relevant to most people's thinking. I can only think that's the case. People read the specs and assume they are correct and won't notice the difference between 4 cfm and 8 cfm on a system supplying 40 cfm of free air, although, if you are passing this information on, then you should make an attempt to quantify it first. Cheers, mate, BTW, that General Motors Orange you used is a dead ringer for the custom Orange I order in, so I'm very happy 😊, cheers mate 👍
It's a shame they don't take more time to actually check the CFM of the gun when they review it but on the other hand you don't really expect the manufactures figures to be wrong but this seems to happen more and more these days🤷♂ I'm pleased that the GM Orange is what you are looking for as it must be cheaper to mix your own rather than buy it in ready mixed, finding colours for you that I didn't know you were looking for is all part of my service👌😎😂cheers Pete👍
@JohnWD40TC02 Yeah, I thought it looked similar, so I made some up, sprayed it on some spray out cards and also painted some with a brush. Sounds odd, but the brush strokes show up different light effects, I find it a good addition to seeing if something is the same, and it's exactly the same. This custom colour has been out at least 7 years and the GM for only 2020, so I'm not sure who copied who 🤣😂, cheers mate 👍
Thanks Pete, another informative video to learn from. I did think it was a bit comical when I read "German Technology" on the Saigaole. I do believe that you can make just about any gun spray with a beautiful clear coat. Thank you again for your videos my friend.
Hi Richard, It did make me laugh when I did the unboxing of Saigaole, It's supposed to be German technology with a Spanish inspired name, in a Japanese body 🤣😂 , cheers mate 👍
Great video Pete. I was the fella who saw them rising in price as soon as you said you bought one and would be testing soon 😂. Tell us the gun that you think might be up to the kiwami 4 before they go up in price 😂. Thanks as always
One other from ntools is the x7 looks like new model take a look pete the quality is incredible they have the hvlp(green) and the rp(blue) they said uk technology and no gaskets is metal on metal i bought the rp model i’m not used it yet but quality is really great it really feel like ws400 even the trigger for less than 70 dollars
Hi Mate, Yes, I have seen it, it's made by a big Chinese company who ironically contacted me the other day, this gun was in there line up, you can have whatever name you want put on them. It's the same as the Italco guns and quite a few others. I haven't handled one, so I will keep an eye open for a bargain if a sale comes up, not that I need another spray gun, of course Cheers buddy 👌
Awesome comparison videos! Do you have any thoughts on gun that lays down a nice finish with a minimal cloud? Im working in a garage with poor ventilation to get all the overspray cloud out so looking for a gun that makes a minimal cloud but still gets great results. Since youve tried SO many guns, do you have thoughts about that? I would like to get a budget clone but can get the real deal if itll make a decent difference. The size of the compressor isnt a issue but ive been more focused on lvlp for less overspray. Ill need to do blending if that makes a difference. Thanks! Learning a lot with your channel!
Hi Stephen, As I was saying in the video, I'm not sure LVLP exists. It is like the thing everyone wants, but no one can find. The guns to look at are the guns that work at lower pressure, there aren't any cheap ones that I know of, guns like the Iwata Wider4L, LPH400, Porphis PRD717 , you will still get what looks like a lot of overspray though if you're garage has little ventilation. I use a couple of 24" fans to move and filter the air out, which works quite well. It can also make it look like there is less overspray than there is in the videos
@peteshobbies5383 so you feel like the cloud the R500 guns make is fairly similar to say an LPH400? Originally I was thinking of getting a used lph400 with a few caps to use for everything....still a LOT more expensive than these clone guns. I don't care about air consumption, I have a big air setup....I just wanted to minimize the 'cloud' since I don't have a booth.
@stephenwhite5444 The LPH400 should make less cloud, but it won't be a huge difference, I'm just not sure if you would feel the difference is enough for the extra money you will spend
@@peteshobbies5383 originally my budget was to find something used off Marketplace but a nice gun, and spend less than $500. BUT all these clones made me question it. BUT, I do need to do some blending and I'm sure at some point I'll want to paint one of my cars in a heavy metallic. So I wanted a gun I can use for pretty much anything....single stage, base clear, primer, metallic, pearl, sprayable 'filler' like Slick Sand.....just a good 'can do anything' gun by just changing caps. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them.
Good video 📹 pete when are you going to do your top ten well in your case mate top 1.000 haha 😄 just kidding I love to see a play ▶️ off with my favourite sata jet x5500 and sagola and my other favourite iwata ws400 series 2 digital version 😊
Hi Mate, I will get round to doing a full review on its own, I've lent it out to someone so they can try it, here's a comparison I did with the PHS155 and the Fuji MP-V8. ruclips.net/video/wR8gUU3hC1U/видео.html
Hi Mate, I'm surprised you find that there's not much in it, but I definitely find the Saigaole W400 better than the 500, YT160, and A610 I have, which are all variations of the 500, cheers buddy 👍
Hi Pete ive got myself one of those updated Areopro r500 (A610) i want to use for primers and recently purchased a 100litre 15cfm (12FAD) compressor i was wondering what a good basecoat / clearcoat gun would pair with it. I was really gutted to find out that something like a DV1 needs ~14cfm and my compressor i just spent a lot on probably wont cut it. I know you have a similar set up and was wondering if you've ever tried to do a big job like a respray on a car if its even possible with a couple stops or just go a different gun route to match my compressor set up.
Hi Mate, There are plenty of guns that will run off your compressor. The DV1s use of air does depend on what cap you use, I actually have two compressors like your's linked up, so, if needed they run together but you should still have enough for many good spray guns, just stay away from true HVLP. What sort of budget are you thinking? I guess if you are thinking of a genuine DV1, then the budget is good ?
Yes ive got a decent budget i was after something that i could base and clear with. Ive just looked up the specs for the DV1 it says using the DV1-B-PLUS air cap is 10.5 SCFM and the C2 plus is 11.3CFM would that be a good combo for my compressor? man its hard picking a spraygun.
@TheMasterKelly To be honest with you, I wouldn't buy a DV1, If you want a good all round gun, look at the Meiji Finer Core, Iwata Kiwami4 WB or W400 WB or the Porphis PRD717, all within budget and capable of great finishes with both clear and base coats
@TheMasterKelly You're welcome, buddy, I have both DV1 guns, base, and clear, and there are better guns for that sort of money and often cheaper as well, cheers 👍
You say the R500 needs 36 psi to get a good finish. There are videos on here where pro painters are using 18 to 22 psi and getting great results. If you cut the pressure in half you will use a lot less air through the gun. Can you do a test like that and see the results in finish and CFM used? Might be interesting!
Might be an idea. To be honest, the R500 is an overrated gun imo, the quality and viscosity of the clear will also make a difference to the finish. Any good painter will get pretty good results from the R500, the thing we need to bear in mind, is this will be used mostly by beginners and amateur painters, so a gun that helps you get better results is crucial imo
@@peteshobbies5383 @peteshobbies5383 I agree a better gun will give better results overall, but beginners and amateurs won't spend 300.00+ US for a gun giving better results, although Jeff Bezos might send himself one from that "Biggest Box" store!
Hi Pete...good video mate. A question, in your opinion what is the best all round spray gun to do smart repairs?? with a small compressor, Finish, price, build, and best cfm usage? Cheers
Hi Mate, I hope alls well over there and you're enjoying the summer. Give me an idea of the compressor size and output, and I'll give you a few ideas 👍
That's what I was hoping it was as Iwata have stopped production of the Kiwami4 at the moment. It is not as good, but then it is cheaper, cheers, mate 👍
@@peteshobbies5383 Привет.Значительно хуже kiwami 4 ba? Или эту разницу почуствует только опытный художник? И который к ним привык и порочувствовал их?) С уважением.
I got a binks trophy pressure fed and i got 3mm ptfe hose off aliexpress .pressure fed needs about 40 ml of paint to prime so it wastes about 40 ml of paint and it takes more solvent to clean .not sure how I'm going to clean it was thinking about using a wire to run through hose with piece clothes tied to the end to run it through the hose
Typical W400 copies, albeit they're decent for the cost. One thing they're not is LVLP. Perhaps LVMP or a poor version of a reduced pressure guns, but the caps aren't very optimized. One gun I have been somewhat impressed with is the Berosslin, which doesn't seem to need as much pressure, but I'll have to do some more rounds with it to be sure it wasnt a fluke. So far it laid HS clear down pretty good at 1.6 bar or so. I still do not believe real LVLP exists in a full size gun
Hi Boss, Yeah, I think we are in agreement on these. They do offer a reasonable gun at a cheap price, but it is just that. I think maybe MVMP would be more appropriate for some of these, I've had many people since I got my R500 saying to me they bought one thinking it was that special thing, the one that cost little, works well and uses little air, they are of course disappointed, hopefully people are getting the idea now of the limitations of these guns, cheers mate 👍
Thanks for the info on panel prep and flowcoat grits! As someone still relavtively new to paint and body work I'm always picking up useful info from the narration.
Hi buddy, thank you, I always used to use 600, and I know many use 800, but I experimented with the different grits, and 400 is as good but definitely better for adhesion,
It's also what I use on headlights now. Again, the finish is just as good, cheers mate 👍
Thanks for the videos I like my Wider4L for "LVLP", looking for something similar to try
Hi mate, the Wider4L is low pressure but not particularly low volume, I think at 16 psi it uses around 10 cfm which is a fair bit at such a low pressure
great video pete 👍👍👍👍
Cheers Grant, Thanks mate 👍
Spraying with these copies the 1st thing I noticed was the air pressure needed to run them. An experienced painter will immediately pick up on that. Making manual settings and then taking note of the pressures is what I do. Great comparison Pete, although they both look fantastic!
Hi Buddy, Yes, agreed completely. They do need more pressure than say an Iwata W400 to perform ok.
By upping the pressure, we are upping the air consumption, so the selling point of low air consumption is completely negated. Some don't seem to let people know this, which is a shame.
Thanks mate 👍
Hi Pete ,
Yeah I bought one of these (saigole) , I needed a gun that I didn't care about ...
My fluid tip was super tight like yours was , but after a few cleans is perfectly fine now (fyi they do wear in)
They're pretty good for the money , I think if you were a home tinkerer that only did small jobs here n there , it would be perfectly fine 👍 , it's an ok all rounder that's cheap for how well it sprays . Only issues I have with it are the trigger needs more of a curve at the bottom and I find myself bumping the air screw for some reason (the last thing is more of my own fault I think)
Hi Andrew, Yeah, I think they are worth the bit extra over the R500, and because the Saigaole works better at a lower pressure, it uses less air than the R500 which is of concern to many, cheers buddy 👍
Hi Pete, I do like your comparison videos as you always put 2 like for like guns together as you have here, the Saigaole did seem to be the better gun here but it's a shame the tip needed to be so tight to get a seal as this is something that would bug me and it's the only thing that I don't like about my WS400 Series 2 having to tighten it up so much just to get the split tip to line up with the airhorns🙄
I found the same with my R500 that you need around 35 psi to get the best out of the gun for clear but it's a good basecoat gun and I found that it also lays WoW primer really nice. It's also a shame the some people on here say it doesn't use much air I think you are right in saying the the people reviewing this gun probably have a big compressor which will run them fine and just quote the spec from the gun saying it only uses 4 CFM but it's more like double that🤨🤠
Cheers Pete👍
Hi John, Yeah, I do try to put things up against each other that are relevant in some way.
I do get asked to do some rather odd comparisons, which just wouldn't be relevant to most people's thinking.
I can only think that's the case. People read the specs and assume they are correct and won't notice the difference between 4 cfm and 8 cfm on a system supplying 40 cfm of free air, although, if you are passing this information on, then you should make an attempt to quantify it first.
Cheers, mate, BTW, that General Motors Orange you used is a dead ringer for the custom Orange I order in, so I'm very happy 😊, cheers mate 👍
It's a shame they don't take more time to actually check the CFM of the gun when they review it but on the other hand you don't really expect the manufactures figures to be wrong but this seems to happen more and more these days🤷♂
I'm pleased that the GM Orange is what you are looking for as it must be cheaper to mix your own rather than buy it in ready mixed, finding colours for you that I didn't know you were looking for is all part of my service👌😎😂cheers Pete👍
@JohnWD40TC02 Yeah, I thought it looked similar, so I made some up, sprayed it on some spray out cards and also painted some with a brush.
Sounds odd, but the brush strokes show up different light effects, I find it a good addition to seeing if something is the same, and it's exactly the same.
This custom colour has been out at least 7 years and the GM for only 2020, so I'm not sure who copied who 🤣😂, cheers mate 👍
Thanks Pete, another informative video to learn from. I did think it was a bit comical when I read "German Technology" on the Saigaole. I do believe that you can make just about any gun spray with a beautiful clear coat. Thank you again for your videos my friend.
Hi Richard, It did make me laugh when I did the unboxing of Saigaole, It's supposed to be German technology with a Spanish inspired name, in a Japanese body 🤣😂 , cheers mate 👍
@@peteshobbies5383 Haha, indeed!
Great video Pete. I was the fella who saw them rising in price as soon as you said you bought one and would be testing soon 😂. Tell us the gun that you think might be up to the kiwami 4 before they go up in price 😂. Thanks as always
Hi Dominic, it's your fault then 🤣😂😅, they sold quite a few after that, cheers, mate 👍
One other from ntools is the x7 looks like new model take a look pete the quality is incredible they have the hvlp(green) and the rp(blue) they said uk technology and no gaskets is metal on metal i bought the rp model i’m not used it yet but quality is really great it really feel like ws400 even the trigger for less than 70 dollars
Hi Mate, Yes, I have seen it, it's made by a big Chinese company who ironically contacted me the other day, this gun was in there line up, you can have whatever name you want put on them.
It's the same as the Italco guns and quite a few others.
I haven't handled one, so I will keep an eye open for a bargain if a sale comes up, not that I need another spray gun, of course
Cheers buddy 👌
Awesome comparison videos! Do you have any thoughts on gun that lays down a nice finish with a minimal cloud? Im working in a garage with poor ventilation to get all the overspray cloud out so looking for a gun that makes a minimal cloud but still gets great results. Since youve tried SO many guns, do you have thoughts about that? I would like to get a budget clone but can get the real deal if itll make a decent difference. The size of the compressor isnt a issue but ive been more focused on lvlp for less overspray. Ill need to do blending if that makes a difference. Thanks! Learning a lot with your channel!
Hi Stephen, As I was saying in the video, I'm not sure LVLP exists. It is like the thing everyone wants, but no one can find.
The guns to look at are the guns that work at lower pressure, there aren't any cheap ones that I know of, guns like the Iwata Wider4L, LPH400, Porphis PRD717 , you will still get what looks like a lot of overspray though if you're garage has little ventilation.
I use a couple of 24" fans to move and filter the air out, which works quite well. It can also make it look like there is less overspray than there is in the videos
@peteshobbies5383 so you feel like the cloud the R500 guns make is fairly similar to say an LPH400? Originally I was thinking of getting a used lph400 with a few caps to use for everything....still a LOT more expensive than these clone guns. I don't care about air consumption, I have a big air setup....I just wanted to minimize the 'cloud' since I don't have a booth.
@stephenwhite5444 The LPH400 should make less cloud, but it won't be a huge difference, I'm just not sure if you would feel the difference is enough for the extra money you will spend
@@peteshobbies5383 originally my budget was to find something used off Marketplace but a nice gun, and spend less than $500. BUT all these clones made me question it. BUT, I do need to do some blending and I'm sure at some point I'll want to paint one of my cars in a heavy metallic. So I wanted a gun I can use for pretty much anything....single stage, base clear, primer, metallic, pearl, sprayable 'filler' like Slick Sand.....just a good 'can do anything' gun by just changing caps. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them.
@stephenwhite5444 You may want a tip size change as well but it's all possible with an LPH400 or Wider4L
Good video 📹 pete when are you going to do your top ten well in your case mate top 1.000 haha 😄 just kidding I love to see a play ▶️ off with my favourite sata jet x5500 and sagola and my other favourite iwata ws400 series 2 digital version 😊
Hi Andy, I'm working on it now mate, it's a top 12 and should be out at Christmas 😁
How about doing a review on the porphis PhD 155?
PHS 155
Hi Mate, I will get round to doing a full review on its own, I've lent it out to someone so they can try it, here's a comparison I did with the PHS155 and the Fuji MP-V8.
ruclips.net/video/wR8gUU3hC1U/видео.html
I have both of them and I rather the 500
Hi Mate, I'm surprised you find that there's not much in it, but I definitely find the Saigaole W400 better than the 500, YT160, and A610 I have, which are all variations of the 500, cheers buddy 👍
Hi Pete ive got myself one of those updated Areopro r500 (A610) i want to use for primers and recently purchased a 100litre 15cfm (12FAD) compressor i was wondering what a good basecoat / clearcoat gun would pair with it.
I was really gutted to find out that something like a DV1 needs ~14cfm and my compressor i just spent a lot on probably wont cut it. I know you have a similar set up and was wondering if you've ever tried to do a big job like a respray on a car if its even possible with a couple stops or just go a different gun route to match my compressor set up.
Hi Mate, There are plenty of guns that will run off your compressor.
The DV1s use of air does depend on what cap you use, I actually have two compressors like your's linked up, so, if needed they run together but you should still have enough for many good spray guns, just stay away from true HVLP.
What sort of budget are you thinking? I guess if you are thinking of a genuine DV1, then the budget is good ?
Yes ive got a decent budget i was after something that i could base and clear with.
Ive just looked up the specs for the DV1 it says using the DV1-B-PLUS air cap is 10.5 SCFM and the C2 plus is 11.3CFM would that be a good combo for my compressor? man its hard picking a spraygun.
@TheMasterKelly To be honest with you, I wouldn't buy a DV1, If you want a good all round gun, look at the Meiji Finer Core, Iwata Kiwami4 WB or W400 WB or the Porphis PRD717, all within budget and capable of great finishes with both clear and base coats
@@peteshobbies5383 Awesome Pete thanks for the recommendations
@TheMasterKelly You're welcome, buddy, I have both DV1 guns, base, and clear, and there are better guns for that sort of money and often cheaper as well, cheers 👍
You say the R500 needs 36 psi to get a good finish. There are videos on here where pro painters are using 18 to 22 psi and getting great results. If you cut the pressure in half you will use a lot less air through the gun. Can you do a test like that and see the results in finish and CFM used? Might be interesting!
Might be an idea. To be honest, the R500 is an overrated gun imo, the quality and viscosity of the clear will also make a difference to the finish.
Any good painter will get pretty good results from the R500, the thing we need to bear in mind, is this will be used mostly by beginners and amateur painters, so a gun that helps you get better results is crucial imo
@@peteshobbies5383 @peteshobbies5383 I agree a better gun will give better results overall, but beginners and amateurs won't spend 300.00+ US for a gun giving better results, although Jeff Bezos might send himself one from that "Biggest Box" store!
Hi Pete...good video mate. A question, in your opinion what is the best all round spray gun to do smart repairs?? with a small compressor, Finish, price, build, and best cfm usage? Cheers
Best gun
Hi Mate, I hope alls well over there and you're enjoying the summer.
Give me an idea of the compressor size and output, and I'll give you a few ideas 👍
If i started from scratch now...what compressor and best gun...LPH 80?
@mreightytwenty8709 The Devilbiss DV1S, pricey but very good, or the LPH80, smaller pattern but very good, and uses very little air
@mreightytwenty8709 The LPH80 with E4s cap is only 2.2 cfm, so virtually any compressor will run it
That saigole looks pete like a kiwami 4 1.3 😊
That's what I was hoping it was as Iwata have stopped production of the Kiwami4 at the moment. It is not as good, but then it is cheaper, cheers, mate 👍
@@peteshobbies5383 Привет.Значительно хуже kiwami 4 ba? Или эту разницу почуствует только опытный художник? И который к ним привык и порочувствовал их?) С уважением.
@sashashepetyuk7279 Hi buddy, it's not as good as the Kiwami4 BA4J
@@peteshobbies5383 Спасибо за информацию,я так понял уровень b4000.
Yes, the 4000B is better
I got a binks trophy pressure fed and i got 3mm ptfe hose off aliexpress .pressure fed needs about 40 ml of paint to prime so it wastes about 40 ml of paint and it takes more solvent to clean .not sure how I'm going to clean it was thinking about using a wire to run through hose with piece clothes tied to the end to run it through the hose
Hi mate, that should work
Typical W400 copies, albeit they're decent for the cost. One thing they're not is LVLP. Perhaps LVMP or a poor version of a reduced pressure guns, but the caps aren't very optimized. One gun I have been somewhat impressed with is the Berosslin, which doesn't seem to need as much pressure, but I'll have to do some more rounds with it to be sure it wasnt a fluke. So far it laid HS clear down pretty good at 1.6 bar or so.
I still do not believe real LVLP exists in a full size gun
Hi Boss, Yeah, I think we are in agreement on these. They do offer a reasonable gun at a cheap price, but it is just that.
I think maybe MVMP would be more appropriate for some of these, I've had many people since I got my R500 saying to me they bought one thinking it was that special thing, the one that cost little, works well and uses little air, they are of course disappointed, hopefully people are getting the idea now of the limitations of these guns, cheers mate 👍