To be honest Renly would attack Kings Landing from land and Stannis would attack from sea using his naval superiority. I do think Tywin would come back to Kings landing to protect his family by either entering Kingslanding to join the defenders or attacking Renly's army which would be very bloody but considering Renly would have the forces of High Garden with him they would be able to defeat Tywin in the field. At this point Renly and Stannis need to agree on who will be king and a ghost with Stannis' face will kill him.
I don't know about that while the Reach holds the numerical advantage the Westerlands army is far better equipped , trained and disciplined. plus Tywin is by far the best strategist in this fight, honestly the people who benefit from this are the North/River lands as now no matter who wins. 1 those who would threaten the North are utterly destroyed as neither army is getting out of this battle at even half strength . 2 if the Baratheon's win the Westerlands are knocked out of the war and the crown lands are crushed . 3 Joffrey is dead as is Cercie . 4 Sansa is saved . 5 Tywin is most likely killed or captured .if the Crown loyalist win then there forces are left highly weakened and Tywin would have to spend time and forces to deal with the still sizable forces of the Reach, plus the Reach would most likely join the secessionist movement
God-Emperor of Mankind That doesn't make sense. If the Tyrells stay then Margery would still be able to be queen. They would just have to make sure Renly gets the throne instead of Stannis.
Much better for Robb, without the problem of losing face by losing Winterfell and another Great House against the Lannisters. However Westeros would be doomed in the long run...Bran and Rickon would never go north and without Bran as the three eyes raven there are a bunch of consequences
Theon would not have taken winterfell and Ramsay would have never sacked winterfell. The Iron Fleet would have blocked Lannisport and Kings Landing from getting supplies and would raid Lannister supplylines.
Raymond Li what if Robb marries Margery Tyrell or Arriane Martell why didn't Cathlyn not think of them a strong house with the numbers Westerlings i was shocked when Robb mentions how many men they have 500 even though the freys are dishonourable they gave him 8 times the number mad Cathlyn who comes from a family who strengthened there family by marriages it's fucked up i think why Westerlings even ghost didn't like them at least she sees something with this
Margery wanted to be Queen of Westeros, not the North. If Robb promised to assume the Iron Throne and kill Stannis, maybe he would have gotten Tyrell support. But not if he makes it clear he doesn't care enough to do those things, even though the Tyrells would win him the war. But the Martels are irrelevant. Their armies are small and light, they're not going to be effective, especially because they start cut off from Robb and surrounded by hostile Baratheons, Lannister and Tyrell armies.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' I don't think stanis would of willingly played detective and fingered out that them kids are Jamie's But I think that if it was stains who figured out that it was a lie cerci wouldn't of had time to kill Robert and set up stanis as a usurper unlike Ned who showed mercy
Agreed, Stannis is a great and complex character. A leader who was corrupted in his pursuit of power. Stannis refused to build coalitions (Robb, Renly, Mance) which was a big part of his downfall.
As much as I like the book version of the character, I actually didn't mind the direction in which they took Stannis. Throughout the story, we see the various self-destructive potentials of various archetypes common in Fantasy literature. Ned and Robb show how honor can be a self-destructive force, Cercei shows how ruthlessness can be self-destructive, with Littlefinger, it's cunning and manipulative skill, etc. Show!Stannis demonstrates how pragmatism, even in the name of justice and/or order, can be self-destructive. My objection was that, due to the problems with the rest of Season 5, they couldn't do that idea justice with regards to the character. Instead of a steady erosion of his values in the name of the throne, Stannis jumps off the slippery slope rather quickly, which felt a bit out of character for me.
Blah Blah what if Stannis asked for Robb Starks help send Davos to speak to him Robb attack from the land and Stannis from the Sea easily the same amount of soldiers that Robert and Ned had ar the Trident 40 thousand 25 from Robb under 20 for Stannis
Not really, he gets an army of wildlings and the North could not raise an army big enough to stop him. Not only that, he gets an army that knows how to fight in winter, the problem with Stannis’ army was it was a Southern army fighting in the North.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Probably since it was this event that stirred Ned to bring Syrio to teach Arya to fight so she would of been captured and the wolves would of been shot down by crossbow bolts. Assuming someone like littlefinger didn't try to have them killed before this.
Stannis would either release Jaime from the Kingsguard or probably send him to the wall for breaking his vows, so that means if he marries Cersei their children would be true Baratheons. The war of the five kings will never happen, and even the original Stark and Lannister rebellion won't go too far, Stannis would put an end to it. Stannis would remain as king because I don't think Cersei would have a need to kill him. I'm not entirely sure if Stannis would want to send assassins after Dany. The only immediate danger to the realm would be Mance Rayder with the Freefolk and the White Walkers, but with no war going on Stannis could easily unite the seven kingdoms to fight against them, by the time Dany arrives in Westeros the realm would be better prepared for the White Walker invasion. Stannis would probably form an alliance with Daenerys to fight against the army of the dead, but once that's over they would go to war for the Iron Throne. It would be a bloody war and Dany will probably be successful in taken the throne but I don't think she would remain as the queen for long, because I doubt Dorne and the Iron Islands would support her this time, and even more unlikely that she will get any help from the North. If any of Stannis children survived the war against Daenerys then they would rule the seven kingdoms. Or at least that's how I imagine it would go.
@@willcc19-18 For several reasons actually. Stannis is the brother of the guy the rebellion was named after(Robert's rebellion) and with Robert dead it is only logical that Stannis would become king instead. There's also the fact that Stannis has a better claim to the Iron Throne, he is a descendant of the Targaryens, and that would help the Targaryens loyalists to be more open to have Stannis as king. But most importantly, Ned would probably refused to be king even if he was asked.
Long live the Protector of the Realm? Nah Ned would come to rally behind Stannis' claim because he was the next *legitimate* heir... Gendry is actually the rightful not legitimate heir.
+Primarch Alpharius What? How is Gendry king before Stannis? Stannis is king by right and law. Gendry is only a bastard, only rightful heir if he's legitimized. However I do support Gendry becoming the one true king at the end.
Sydney Hill Instead of stupid Westerlings i like Jayne it's just her mother i hate she was always a sly one As for Margery they would of been the best couple ever
@Marie Kondo She could persuade Robb to take the throne and play up on the fact the people need a good King. Also, show Stannis isn't as likable as he is in the book.
either tyrion or oberyn still murder Tywin. i guess power would fall to Kevan Lannister who becomes the new Hand. or Mace Tyrell. nether would arm the faith so westeros is peaceful until Dany invades.
With the death of Cersei, Jaime is more inclined to believe Tyrion was involved. BUT.... WITHOUT Cersei, the trial against Tyrion is far less powerful, as Cersei does not move several Small Council members against him. The problem of course is that Tywin still brings Shae into his custody, but I don't think he would stack the trial against Tyrion so heavily. Though he is loathe to admit it, Tyrion is a resource that is too valuable to simply throw away, and he needs Jaime to come to him to make the offer to forswear his Kingsguard vows in return for Tyrion's life, which he cannot guarantee Jaime would do now that Jaime is less sure about Tyrion's guilt or innocence. Tyrion is found innocent, or at least innocent enough that he is not categorically guilty, but he would be asked to publicly condemn Sansa as being involved. Common wisdom WOULD say that Oberyn is not so brash as to brazenly murder Tywin. As he himself says, "If I cut your throat today, I will be drawn and quartered tomorrow." So instead, Oberyn goes to great lengths to have Tywin die under suspicious, but not damning, circumstances, knowing what happens next. Tywin likely has placed contingencies that if he dies, Oberyn be imprisoned. Of course, Oberyn immediately demands a trial by combat, *knowing* that Kevan or Jaime would call upon The Mountain. Without needing to hear The Mountain name Tywin as who gave the order to murder Elia, Oberyn does not take his time at the end of the fight taunting or interrogating him; he simply kills him, effectively gaming the system and allowing himself to complete his vengeance without becoming a criminal. Oberyn returns to Dorne, having grown bored of King's Landing, and knowing that Kevan is likely to have him killed if he stays. This leaves us in an... interesting position. Kevan Lannister is Hand and *desperate* for allies in governance, so I imagine he brings Tyrion back to the Small Council as Master of Coin. With Lancel in the Faith Militant, Kevan successfully pleads with Jaime to leave the Kingsguard(while Jaime obviously wanted to be a Kingsguard, he originally did it so he could stay with Cersei; with Cersei and his father both dead, and a now *THIRD* dead king under his watch, I feel like Jaime would take his leave)so that House Lannister still had the potential for the firstborn line to continue. Nobody is stupid or desperate enough to arm the Faith Militant. The High Sparrow's revolution is swiftly put down and Kevan sends Lancel back home. Tyrion becomes extremely loyal to Tommen, seeing the good Tommen may still do later in life. Varys likely questions his Targaryen Restoration plans; Myrcella marries Prince Trystane, firmly forming a powerful triple-alliance between The Westerlands, The Reach, and Dorne. Littlefinger still does his side of things; marries then murders Lysa Arryn, Sansa reveals herself in confidence to the Lords of the Vale, then he marries her to the Boltons, hoping to secure a North-Vale alliance under his control. Ramsay's marriage to Sansa makes House Bolton a sworn enemy of the Crown, as now it is the public position of the Crown that Sansa killed Cersei and Joffrey. Without the ability to play upon Cersei's paranoia to make himself appear innocent, Littlefinger is also an enemy of the Crown, and thus does not need to leave Sansa alone in Winterfell, meaning Ramsay feels compelled to maintain his mask of being a decent person to Littlefinger, MEANING he likely doesn't force himself on her in the same fashion, for concern of turning The Vale against him. Littlefinger likely conspires with Ramsay to kill Roose more discreetly, then advises Ramsay press Sansa's claim to Riverrun. The North and Vale march on the Riverlands, wipe out House Frey, and the River Lords under Brynden and Edmure Tully pledge allegiance to Sansa. Ramsay barely has time to start worrying that all of his allies are only on his side as long as Sansa is before Littlefinger has him killed, leaving Sansa alone as Lady of the North and Riverlands, as well as having a powerful alliance with the Vale. However, this means Littlefinger also gains respect in the North, as he is seen working to avenge the Red Wedding. He probably spreads some of those rumors himself, strengthening his position and his political protection. Arya returns shortly thereafter, ironically with most of the names on her list crossed off before she even lands in Westeros. She reunites with Sansa, Rickon, and the recently-departed from the Night's Watch Jon Snow, who is perfectly content to be in Sansa's service. A stage is being set for a new war; the only regions currently undeclared are the Iron Islands and Storm's End. With Theon freed and likely returned to the Islands, Euron still returns and announces his intentions to sail for Meereen, becoming Lord there. Theon and Yara beat him there, so Euron instead turns his sights on Sansa, though I doubt he has any luck winning her over with his particular.... errr.... "charms." Honestly kind of hard to say where he goes from here; maybe he still makes an attempt to win Dany over and gets absolutely murdered by dragons, giving Yara full control of the Iron Fleet? With Davos working alongside Jon, and with Melisandre present as well, it's plausible Sansa and/or Littlefinger learn about Gendry and begin efforts to locate him. Davos does not hate Melisandre the same way, as the Stark Restoration Army doesn't march on Winterfell and therefore does not stumble on Stannis' former camp where Shireen was burned. It's around this point Jon stresses the need to return to the North and prepare for the Army of the Dead, and a temporary peace agreement is reached with the Crown, since Tyrion would trust Jon when he says they plan to return North to deal with an approaching threat. This allows the River and Vale lords to go North without threat from the Royal Army.... but I think Arya goes to King's Landing and looks for Gendry, extracting him and taking him North. Littlefinger then spreads the rumor that the last of the Baratheon line fights with the North, incentivizing some in the Stormlands to either remain neutral or march to join the North. As this is all happening, Dany's story *mostly* moves along the same path, except Tyrion is not there to curb her worse impulses, meaning she likely enters Westeros with Daario by her side. She likely lands in a Westeros utterly divided and seemingly on the verge of another war. With her goal being the Iron Throne, she reaches out to the Northern Alliance, only for Varys to learn it is largely headed by Littlefinger, who then cautions her against him. Dany is without allies other than those she brought with her, and so she makes war against the Crown while the North prepares for the army of the dead. Though the North has no dragons, neither do the White Walkers have a dragon to blow through The Wall, dramatically increasing The North's timeline. Hard to say what happens after that. Assuming the Night King dies, it is likely still Arya that delivers the killing blow. Nobody in the Northern Alliance has the authority to formally name Gendry the Lord of Storm's End. The Northern Alliance's army is utterly shattered, leaving no capacity to resist Dany, who doubtlessly wins the war for the Crown, so I imagine they submit. Arya also still kills Littlefinger after learning about his betrayal of Ned Stark, with a public trial in which his guilt is confirmed. Ironically.... Without all the problems, without losing two of her dragons and without losing Jorah and Missandei and the loyalty of Varys, without the trials and tribulations and mounting frustrations, I don't think Dany goes 'Mad Queen' mode. The Reach defects as Dany approaches, proclaiming that they have awaited a Targaryen restoration; Loras is offered to Dany as a husband, and though she probably takes him, I doubt she lets him sit the Throne. She likely adopts something like the Dornish tradition of the eldest child ruling, be they man or woman. Margaery's children with Tommen are probably installed as Lords of Highgarden, losing the Baratheon name and forswearing all royal claims. Kevan Lannister is killed. Varys likely tells Dany that Tyrion, if loyal, would be a highly effective advisor and possibly Hand; Tommen is sent into exile, perhaps to Dorne with Myrcella. Dany then has the issue of her army; The Dothraki are loyal, but they are also raiders, pillagers, and warmongers. They would not likely be content to beat their arakhs into farming tools. If she does not use them, they will grow restless and their loyalty will wane. Dany begins slow preparations to begin a crusade of conquest across Essos; The former Slave Cities are already hers, and she still possesses three full-grown dragons. Within a century, the known world falls to the Last of the Valyrians and House Targaryen dominates the world.
Even If Ramsey was a good man Theon took winterfell and pretended to kill both bran and rickon. The Ironborn were offered free passege home if they gave away Theon and they did, but Ramsey killed them anyway. If Ramsey was a good northman he would just send the Ironborn home as promissed by his king and either execute Theon performing the "kings justice" or sent him to Rob so he could execute him himself. Either way Theon dies even in a world that Rob dies in the Red wedding before Theon meets him because he fate is already traced at that point. If Ramsey is a good man but there are a still a Roose Bolton betreyal via Red Wedding a shocked Ramsey would probably execute Theon himself as to just execute the last order from his previous king or Roose would sell Theon to the Ironborn as he would do before Ramsey castrated him.
Jon: "I accept Your Grace, on one condition." Stannis: "What condition?" Jon: "If we die, we need an army on The Wall. The Night's Watch has 50 men, not enough to fight The Others. Let me bring The Wildlings South."
I've had ideas for these what if videos that you could do on the break and I've really enjoyed this so yeah! Would like to see your opinions on the what ifs: 1. What if Theon goes to the Nights watch when the boltons show up? 2. What if Stannis didn't kill Renly? 3. What if Ned Stark sided with Renly and took his 100 guards?
Great WHAT IF! :D Also, I think Sam would be fine, because Stannis liked him really much. So he'd either send him to Oldtown to become a maester, or just bring him down south to a bigger and better library. Their interraction in the library in Castle Black Stannis said: ''If the white walkers come, we need to know how to defeat them.. *nods* Keep reading Samwell Tarly''
Alex Papamichail Tywin would be less of a dick to Tyrion and Cersei might feel sorry for Tyrion, all in all life works out better for the Lannister’s + we get to see Tywin smile maybe?
Primarch Alpharius hmm a lot of differences happen. Does Robert still give DragonStone to Stannis? Stannis thought that Robert gave it to him in spite for not being able to catch the Targayens. So for this scenario the Targaryen dynasty has ended officially and the Baratheon dynasty is ensured as the sole kingship by all and Stannis becomes lord of Storms End instead of Dragonstone. Without him in Dragonstone a WHOLE LOT OF SHIT changes. Would Melisandre still find him, she came to Dragonstone looking for Azor Ahai she would find a young Renly, and he would probably make her go away. Stannis at Storm's End would foster young Loras (that's how Renly and Loras met and fell in love) I don't know how that would go Stannis isn't exactly the fun uncle or as charismatic as Renly, though perhaps Davos and Loras get a relationship or Shireen gets her first possible bethoral. By the time of the events of Game of Thrones, we have a Loras who is closer to Shireen and Davos than he is to Renly, a much wealthier and more powerful Stannis, and no Melisandre in the story. OK so Renly is still loved by many and respected by the smallfolk especially in Kings Landing. So basically everything happens exactly the same except that Renly doesn't declare himself King to Eddard or anyone (Loras gave him the idea) and follows Stannis. Stannis after hearing of Joffery's and Tommen's illegitimatacy would declare himself King, with the his large fleet and Stormlands. He instantly becomes a strong contender. With Renly by his side and the Stormlands he isn't as hesitant to press his claim late and does it earlier like when Renly did it, and its possible that even Robb declares for him before the meeting. Sure you could argue they prefer Robb but the entire meeting was to see what they where going to do about Renly, and the throne. With Stannis declaring its likely it doesn't come to a heated discussion over Renly or Stannis leading to the climactic King of The North. Rather just joining Stannis. With this the Tyrells don't join the lannnisters. The North,Riverlands,Stormlands (and although have not declared for anyone are just as likely to join, Dorne and Vale) I think Dorne will join Stannis since they want revenge for the death of Elia Martell and her children and no targaryens to join. The Tyrrell's are all about joining the winning side, despite the chance of making Margarery queen its too risky and either Join Stannis or less likely remain neutral. They could make a marriage with Loras and Shireen or more likely Loras and Sansa, Maragery and Renly (not any direct control on the throne, but next in line) Stannis and co. take Kings Landing burn Joffery and Tommen and Myrcella and maybe Cersei. Tywin either sues for peace beforehand making Tommen take the black and Myrcella join the silent sisters and possibly even losing his. Warden of the Westerlands title. Or perhaps Stan the Man doesn't care and burns the abominations anyway. Either way Lannisters lose, and Stannis is king. Iron isles might attack the Westerlands if its so one-sided to Stannis and the North, sacking lannisport. Robb heads the Night Watch's pleas for help and Stannis helps as it is his duty to keep the kingdoms safe. So Jon, Robb, and Stannis lead the war against the Night King and most likely win with Wildfire, +population, Dragonglass, and better preparations than in our timeline. So a better Westeros had Stannis caught those pesky fuckers. Oh and the slaves in Meeren, Astapoh, and Yunkai stay enslaved, Drogo lives, Arya doesn't go to the faceless men, and the Baratheon dynasty survives.
Would the Targaryens be killed though? Stannis and Robert both have no love for them, but would they be inclined to kill a young kid and a newborn child?
Robert and the lannisters would approve, though Jon Arryn and Ned might argue, Robert's hate would be the highest because Lyanna's death would have just reached him. Stannis would either turn them in to Robert to execute or do it himself
Stannis would immediately gather his army after Robert's death. 20,000 Knights of The Vale and 5,000 Knights of Dragonstone. Around that time, Ned would've been arrested and Robb would've entered The Riverlands. If Stannis plays his cards right, he can meet with Robb and Robb can declare for him. Stannis would go South to face Tywin while Robb crosses The Twins and fights Jaime. With both Lannister armies destroyed, Stannis and Robb would easily march on King's Landing and take it.
My Soup Too cold It would be deadly maybe just have Arriane in the show and not have the Sandsnakes kill Myrcella or the Doran so stupid and have Aero Hotah as a bad ass and not with a shite Axe it's not even a axe in the show more like a spear Play it out that Arriane is angry and wants revenge so kidnapping Mycella would have to be made more exciting
Jack Smith Survived the poison or there was never an attempt at his life? Edit- Don't talk shit. My eyes deceived me and I thought it said Jaime. Don't ask how, because I don't even know.
WHAT IF Loras marries Cersei, to complete what Olenna was talking about Loras: Margaery's brother, Margery's father in law, Joffrey's brother in law, Joffrey's father in law Loras' kid: Margaery's nephew, Joffery's half brother, Joffrey's cousin Margaery's kid: Cersei's grand son, Cersei's nephew, I'm getting really confused here...
He already did a video like that. In my opinion for cersei lannister to be betrothal to the prince, it would be better if Aerys was long but dead or a completely different man.
I think ive got an intriguing 'what if' for ya: WHAT IF tyrion wasnt born a dwarf? Jamie jr? special baby golden boy? or STILL just a lousy 2nd son? love your content man!
Boby Gandhi He's much smarter than either Cersei or Jaime. With Euron wanting to go against Dany all the same stuff would happen and yadda yadda yadda. But Stannis would put much more defense into protecting the North, so Jon would probably go to Dany and ask for help and explains and stuff. So Daenrys with the Reach and Dorne vs Stannis with the Storm lands, Vale, Riverlands, North, Westerlands, and Iron Isles would be very one-sided. Would Tyrion attack Casterly Rock or Storm's End? If he goes for Storms end Greyworm and the Unsullied die, If he goes for Casterly Rock, nothing severe to Stannis happens. Of course Dragons blah blah and Dothraki ensure that the Tarlys die and she gains the Reach and the battle would continue consuming many lives, until Jon comes in and does the same shit he did with Dany in S7 and then continue to make a peace so they could go for the WW first. The maesters under Stannis and Jon's orders would begin to search of ways to beat them and Samwell will stay. I guess Jon would do the same shiet he did before and attack the WW force. Dany falling in love goes Deus Ex Dragon and saves him like before. But this time she buys into the idea and Jon tells Stannis to postpone to save the kingdom and with Davos he grudgingly agrees. HOWEVER with Viserion dead its very likely Stannis will try and push for ways to kill the Dragons and with the Ice Dragon and Rhaegal and Drogon in danger, Stannis after the Great War would slaughter the Dothraki (Would the Tyrell house be destroyed? Stannis wouldn't kill them, but Olenna would die, idk about Loras, Margery, and Mace) the Sand snakes, and whoever else thinks she can lead. Without her dragons in a land she has no experience in and against the greatest military commander of Westeros and support of the Iron Bank, dany would fight a losinv battle. Unless she tries to sue for peace and marries Jon or Jon's parentage is revealed and she tries to push for him to gather the North to her side. I doubt she'd be successful though, Jon sees himself more as a Stark and always Ned as his Father, Ned died for Stannis, he won't destroy his memory. Although he could very well be neutral. Daenrys would still fall to Stannis. Stannis is made king without any rivals for once lol. And begins rebuilding westeros in his image, which after suffering the bloodiest age in its history, Stannis purge of corruption and equality among the lowborn and highborn would cause him to create a much stronger unified Westeros void of people like Little finger(who would've died along the way) and Varys (who he'd execute for sure) and more honorable people like Jon and Davos rise under Stannis rule
I feel like Ramsay would flee as the battle is being lost and hold a knife to Sansa's throat as Stannis' forces get into winterfell. I think he'd definitely kill her.
I just realized how OOC it was for Stannis to offer Jon the stark name. If he does that, and Jon joins him, that makes Jon a deserter, which means death. That's the entire lesson with Davos. "A good deed doesn't wash away the bad."
Not might be very interesting, but what if Cersei poisoned Tommen during the Battle of the Blackwater. Would the Tyrells kill Joffrey if there was no other King for Margaery to marry?
Bran would and I doubt Bran cared enough to just say "nope, still a bastard." Also Daenerys legitimacy as at least the Queen of Meereen by right of conquest was not in question. Stannis being king of anything was.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Just the Warden of the South doesn''t have authority in the North because it's beyond their jurasticion and jurastiction means everything.
What if Ned told Jon about his true heritage when he was growing up or at the king's road? I feel like this would dramatically change Jon's path in life
I think Jon would of been more clever then to do a head on attack against Winterfell. He most likely would of taken a group of soldiers through the crypts secret entrance at night and opened the gates Troy style. He knows the Boltons have Sansa and he wouldn't want to risk her life. Also Sansa was getting through to Theon at this point so maybe he would of redeemed himself by bringing her to Jon or straight up died in the chaos. Stannis would leave the decision of Theons fate to Jon and had he chose to spare Theon for saving Sansa they may have used that to try to get the Greyjoy fleet on their side which would cause problems for Euron who may have sided with the Lannisters sooner. There is also Brienne. Would she still try to kill Stannis if he takes Winterfell and essentially does her job by saving Sansa I'd like to think she would do her duty and stand by her instead. When Stannis takes kings landing he would still have control of Dragonstone so Dany would need to land at Dorne instead but they would have probably already sided with Stannis against the Lannisters. It depends on if the Sept was still standing at this point since Ollenna wouldn't need to go to Dorne. Most likely by the time Dany arrives if she does at all the country would already be preparing for the white walkers and I think Tyrion would be the deciding factor on if she tried to take the throne or use her dragons and army to help Westeros. I think if Dany met Shireen she would probably return to the bay of dragons once the night king was defeated. Seeing Stannis, Jon and Dany leading their United armies would be epic!
what if sansa had to go through the things that arya went through and viceversa (arya stays in kingslanding with the lannister, and sansa left kingslanding )(i don't think they would have survived long)
Stannis had the power to and he is the only leader to believe in the threat from the white walkers. Stannis is the only one serious and willing to fight the white walkers beside Jon.
Why do you think House Umber would join? They already had a Stark - Rickon - in their pocket; if they wanted to make a move based on Stark legitimacy they could've done so with Rickon as the puppet, but SmallJon calling all the shots, essentially acting as regent + general, and taking effective control of the north. They didn't though, they chose the Boltons.
What if Qyburn died at Harrenhal? As the mastermind behind the Zombie Mountain and the destruction of the Sept of Baelor, AND Cersei's Master of Whispers, his absence would leave serious implications on the late-game plot.
Good video although I don't think Danny taking the Iron Throne would be as easy since Stanis may have a united Kingdom over Cersei's fearful reign. Honestly I think this outcome would be much more interesting with two sides you would be rooting for with Stanis vs Daenerys. No good vs evil here just shades of gray. Would have made for far more compelling TV.
Yeah Dorne might side with Stannis because they would likely marry Trystane to Shireen in return for loyalty or they would side with Daenerys in hopes to marry Trystane to Danny. High Garden might side with Daenerys but it wouldn't tip the scale. The Lannisters would stay out of it. The Starks would stay loyal. The Reach wouldn't be ruled by little finger yet so they would stay out of it due to their blood ties with the Riverlands. The Riverlands would side with the Starks.
I could see Stanis winning the war if Daenerys acts the same way she did when fighting the Lannisters, only with the use of Dragons do I see her winning but either way its a pretty even battle and would have been some great TV.
Jon Snow was dumb to refuse Stannis’s offer here & literally costed him his life…. If Jon Stark joined Stannis he would’ve avoided death & taken his family’s seat back! As it was well established the North can’t fight the Walkers AND the Boltons too. Jon helping Stannis & the south would’ve helped the nights watch too
here's a what if question for you: what if the targeryans were all married in more or less equal numbers into the lannister stark and baratheon families? that would make some sense, since these families would want the knowledge of dragon lore the targeryans had, and thus the dragons themselves would be balanced against each other as deterrant weapons.
Makes sense. The Starks control a 1/3 of Westeros, The Lannisters are the richest family, and The Baratheons are a ferocious House and are part Targaryen.
Jon could have said he will go if he gives passage to the Wildlings and waits for his return. If Stannis agrees to wait(a hard task) then Jon would most likely add a thousand or so wildings to Stannis army in exchange for farming rights with Stannis army being granted a sum of each supply in the future until the war is done. In this scenario The North is a little more untrusting with the Wildlings working for Jon but manys loyaltys will overweigh that distrust and with Stannis's army backing jon as well more will also be willing to back his force now. In this scenario Ramsay will not charge out into battle and will instead hold up in Winterfell for a siege. Boltons army is only loyal due to fear however so the siege shouldnt last that long until a betrayel. Ramsey will most likely know this and try to do a raid to gain morale in some way or to lower the enemy supplies and numbers. This wont work that well for Ramsey however for Stannis will have higher numbers this time and Wildlings have worgs that will be able to prevent any ambushes more easily. This might even result in ramsey being betrayed mid raid to be captured and killed. If Ramsey isnt killed the Vale will most likely come to "aid' by Little finger in order to gain favor with the winning side and with Sansa claiming he was tricked. After this siege however Stannis will most likely make Winterfell a new home base with Rickon taking the warden position possibly Jon. From here it gets iffy for Danny will be coming a month or so after stannis captures winterfell and regroups a little. Hes very unwilling to shake his mindsets so Danny will probably capture Dragonstone while hes away and Jon will have to pick a side or him and the red lady will need to broker some deal which will be VERY hard
What if Sansa actually was Little Finger's daughter? What if Robb had married the Frey girl? What if Cersei had left the capital with her children and gone into hiding when Ned give her the chance? What if Mance Rayder had tried to kidnap Sansa when he was at Winterfell (as he insinuated he wanted to when he meet Jon) ? What if Cersei never had any children? What if Bran went south with his father and sisters? What if the guards had let Arya and the hound in when they arrived at the Vale? What if Tyrion had gotten Sansa pregnant?
Gendry might actually be legitimized and Ned gets placed as Protector of the Realm until Gendri is ready to rule. Gendry also marries Sansa or that bitch from high garden. Also Danny gets assassinated.
What if Alister Throne went with Jon Snow to Hardholme? Being that he did not sabotage the negotiations and survived the encounter and seeing the full threat of the Night King.
Great video as always. Only one small disagreement with you. I think that the Lannisters not having Cersei but only Jaime and Kevan would be beneficial to protecting Kings Landing. Cersei is an idiot. She would just screw up everything while Kevan and Jaime are seasoned and decorated warriors. I mean Jaime crushed House Tully with only half of the Lannister forces before Robb surprised him but only because he thought Robb would attack Tywin. It was also his idea to let the Unsullied take the Rock and go for Highgarden. Also he defeated the Blackfish without having to kill anyone. And Kevan has always been apart of Tywins decision making. Granted. They're still no match for Stannis and possibly Tarly (and Jon who is an underrated commander).
I don't think Jon accepting Stannis offer would mean he wouldn't go to Hardhome. Remember, Stannis understands that the war against the Whitewalkers is the ultimate problem that needs to handled. If Jon accepted Stannis' offer, I think he'd still convince Stannis that the Wildings at Hardhome need to be saved, both to get more men to fight the Whitewalkers, and prevent the Whitewalkers from gaining more troops. Stannis would understand this and agree to let Jon go save them. In the unlikely event that Stannis didn't understand, then Jon would make accepting the offer conditional: He would only accept Stannis offer if Stannis agreed to let him go save the Wildlings. Stannis is a man who knows a good deal when he sees one, so I'm sure he'd accept the terms.
ok, from the get-go: Stannis absolutely had authority to legitimize Jon. Because at that point, he IS king. someone else claim to be king in his stead. That is not debatable. the moment Bobby B died, Stannis became king
everyone in the realm was debating it. most of the realm thought Stannis was a lying jealous uncle delegitimizing his nephews to get the throne for his own selfish ends. okay WE know he has the best claim but most Westerosi don't. even if they do believe Stannis claim he has a foreign god and foreign witch, not to mention the bulk of his forces being foreign sellswords. not the best recipe for a popular king that people will listen to. anyone can crown themselves a king. its whether people accept you that make you a king.
Everything would be different, Eddard could never been born, Robert would not exist because his grandmother was a daughter of Aegon V. Dany is also a descendant from Aegon V so she doesnt exist either and Brynden Rivers would never go to the Wall, because Aegon was the one who sent him there.
I think Stannis and Dany would come to a truce much like the one Cersei and Dany agreed to in order to fight the dead together, but I know Stannis would actually send his forces to fight along with Dany's instead of just lying about it. Then idk because we don't know what happens yet. I'd assume either Stannis or Dany die in the war and whomever is alive peacefully ascends to the throne and Jon tells Bran and Sam to never tell anyone the truth about his parentage.
I would see Jon as arguing to first save as many wilding/Free Folk as they can with Stannis ships unless I’m wrong about his ships then everything hurts in wildfire
Actually they would be forced to fight the Freys to go south which would lead to Edmure being released and the riverlands would join them along with Dorne
Looking back i think there is a loophole for jon leaving the nights watch, kinda. As it was Jon Snow who took the Black but Jon Stark who would have left
I think Jon probably would've been able to get Stannis and Daenerys to hold off fighting each other until the night king was defeated. From there I'm guessing Jon would've remained neutral in the fight between Stannis and Dany or would've fought with Stannis since he respected him and more than likely would've had to swear a vow to serve Stannis once he took the throne. Maybe Rhaegar abandons Dany and flocks to Jon?
I love how no matter what scenario you do it always ends with Dany on the throne lol. She was smart to wait in Essos until all the key players had killed each other off.
What about Brienne in this scenario after all she was right outside of Winterfell waiting for the candle to be lit. She would have to finish her storyline after giving her word into serving Catelyn Stark for the protection of her daughters. As long as it didn't interfere with her own vows she made to get justice for Renley's death by Stannis.
Here's an interesting What if. What if Cersei Lannister had married Ned Stark shortly after Robert's rebellion if Ned was the one who was made king? The reason I'm asking this is two fold. One (in the show) Cersei tells Robert that she had felt something for him once, even after they lost their first child. This tells me that she can love someone outside of her brother, at least initially. Two, Eddard Stark, unlike Robert, is a loyal man. If he had married Cersei he would've been 100% devoted to her. How would Cersei have turned out if she was wed to a good man? How ambitious would she have become? How would Ned have faired? I realize this changes a lot, and I mean TONS of important plot points and details, but I think it such an extreme idea it's worth exploring.
Here's what I think would have happened: In the show; Jon joins, no houses joins Stannis except for a few minor ones because the North doesn't give a f and the Battle of Winterfell plays out pretty much the same, but this time the Boltons rule the North and there's no good guy to stop them. Sansa might escape, but only to be captured, tortured and Reek would be flayed. The only hope for the Northerners would be Daenerys or perhaps Rickon if the Umbers don't hand him over. In the books; Every House that doesn't have a hostage in the arms of the Freys and Boltons joins Stannis. Stannis successfully takes Winterfell and installs Jon as Warden of the North. Theon is burned and Jon finds out that Arya Stark is not at Winterfell, but was Jayne Poole. Any Boltons who survives are given the choice of bending the knee or being burned, except for Ramsey and Roose. Jon pledges to give some of his men to Stannis and aid him in the South, but needs to prepare for the Night King. Stannis says there is no need now since he has gotten his mercenaries which he takes and marches down south. Stannis liberates the Riverlands from the Lannisters and gets Edmure Tully to pledge to him and burns the Frey lords. If Jaime is found he would burn him for all to see. After that, he goes, together with the Riverland soldiers, and marches on King's Landing. By now, so much time has passed that we don't know what has happened to King's Landing or Cersei's condition. If she's alive, dead or to stand trial. Assuming the plot of the show is the same as the books, the Tyrells see that the Lannisters are loosing and are discussing if they want to pull out of the marriage with Tommen. The High Sparrow still controls much of the capital and is unable to stop Stannis' march on the city. Stannis takes the city without much difficulty, has Cersei burn to pay for her crimes and holds Tommen hostage to get the remaining Lannisters to sue for peace. The Faith Militant are all burned and the Sept of Balor is converted into a temple for R'hllor. If Stannis plays his cards right, the city might welcome this since the Faith of the Seven would be in a very bad light by now and they might welcome a change. With both Jaime, Tywin and Kevin dead, the remaining Lannisters are in so much chaos that they have no choice but to sue for peace and the Tyrells realise that there's no point in fighting so they sue for peace. Stannis is crowned King of the Seven Kingdoms. Stannis would take hostages from the Tyrells to keep them from joining Daenerys who is arriving with her army of Unsullied and Dorthraki. Research is made into how Dorne defeated the Targaryens and Scorpions are built around King's Landing to shoot down any Dragon who might fly to burn the keep. Daenerys would probably take Dragonstone, since Stannis would have moved into King's Landing. Up in the North Jon has been preparing the men for the War for the Dawn and dragonglass has been shipped to Winterfell and other cities/castles through White Harbour. They have tried to recruit as many of the Wilderlings from Mance Rayder as possible, but it is not as many as it could have been due to Janos Slynt being the Lord Commander and a very poor one at that. Wun Wun is not recruited so the Wilderlings are with much lower forces, but Mance and Jon managed to equip the ones they have in chainmail and weapons of Dragonglass. A raven arrives from the Vale. It's from Sansa. Since Sansa doesn't need to be kept secret anymore, she openly reveals herself and her marriage to Harrlod Hardyng to Littlefinger's dismay. Harrold offers to help Jon in the War for the Dawn and thus probably agrees to pledge for Stannis. This is as far as I am willing to speculate as the books doesn't allow for any further clues as to what will happen.
If you're talking books, Stannis would've gotten to King's Landing at the same time FAegon and The Golden Company would've gotten there. Stannis can't stand up against FAegon.
What if Brother Lance stopped the kid and was able to put out the candles before it ignited the wildfire or What if the High Septon had listened to Queen Margaery and got out of the Great Sept and survived its destruction.
What if renly and stannis joined forces
The show would only be two seasons
To be honest Renly would attack Kings Landing from land and Stannis would attack from sea using his naval superiority.
I do think Tywin would come back to Kings landing to protect his family by either entering Kingslanding to join the defenders or attacking Renly's army which would be very bloody but considering Renly would have the forces of High Garden with him they would be able to defeat Tywin in the field.
At this point Renly and Stannis need to agree on who will be king and a ghost with Stannis' face will kill him.
I don't know about that while the Reach holds the numerical advantage the Westerlands army is far better equipped , trained and disciplined. plus Tywin is by far the best strategist in this fight, honestly the people who benefit from this are the North/River lands as now no matter who wins. 1 those who would threaten the North are utterly destroyed as neither army is getting out of this battle at even half strength . 2 if the Baratheon's win the Westerlands are knocked out of the war and the crown lands are crushed . 3 Joffrey is dead as is Cercie . 4 Sansa is saved . 5 Tywin is most likely killed or captured .if the Crown loyalist win then there forces are left highly weakened and Tywin would have to spend time and forces to deal with the still sizable forces of the Reach, plus the Reach would most likely join the secessionist movement
God-Emperor of Mankind That doesn't make sense. If the Tyrells stay then Margery would still be able to be queen. They would just have to make sure Renly gets the throne instead of Stannis.
Primarch Alpharius well the tyrells would properly get stannis killed so that renly will become king.
What if balon greyjoy accepted robb's offer?
Raymond Li The show would have been 2 seasons long.
Much better for Robb, without the problem of losing face by losing Winterfell and another Great House against the Lannisters. However Westeros would be doomed in the long run...Bran and Rickon would never go north and without Bran as the three eyes raven there are a bunch of consequences
Theon would not have taken winterfell and Ramsay would have never sacked winterfell. The Iron Fleet would have blocked Lannisport and Kings Landing from getting supplies and would raid Lannister supplylines.
Raymond Li what if Robb marries Margery Tyrell or Arriane Martell why didn't Cathlyn not think of them a strong house with the numbers Westerlings i was shocked when Robb mentions how many men they have 500 even though the freys are dishonourable they gave him 8 times the number mad Cathlyn who comes from a family who strengthened there family by marriages it's fucked up i think why Westerlings even ghost didn't like them at least she sees something with this
Margery wanted to be Queen of Westeros, not the North. If Robb promised to assume the Iron Throne and kill Stannis, maybe he would have gotten Tyrell support. But not if he makes it clear he doesn't care enough to do those things, even though the Tyrells would win him the war.
But the Martels are irrelevant. Their armies are small and light, they're not going to be effective, especially because they start cut off from Robb and surrounded by hostile Baratheons, Lannister and Tyrell armies.
What if Robert chooses Stannis as his Hand instead of Ned?
I like this one aswell as it would have some major implications, not only a probable survival for our awesome Ned.
Stannis would burn all of the Usurpers and abominations.
Also there would have been a war with tywin lannister, because he wouldn't accept that his legacy is a lie.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' I don't think stanis would of willingly played detective and fingered out that them kids are Jamie's
But I think that if it was stains who figured out that it was a lie cerci wouldn't of had time to kill Robert and set up stanis as a usurper unlike Ned who showed mercy
@Abaddon Void Stannis already knew thats why he fled to Dragonstone.
The fact that the book's deal also included Val (one of the most beautiful characters and very funny) really shows the strength of Jon's character.
She still would have had to steal Jon, and a very funny and awkward scene
Whoa whao Stannis is the one true king. He had all the authority! Even backed by the Iron bank of Braavos Stannis shall always be my king!
Agreed, Stannis is a great and complex character. A leader who was corrupted in his pursuit of power. Stannis refused to build coalitions (Robb, Renly, Mance) which was a big part of his downfall.
The TV show portray's Stannis in a negative light and changed his character since D&D disliked him
As much as I like the book version of the character, I actually didn't mind the direction in which they took Stannis. Throughout the story, we see the various self-destructive potentials of various archetypes common in Fantasy literature. Ned and Robb show how honor can be a self-destructive force, Cercei shows how ruthlessness can be self-destructive, with Littlefinger, it's cunning and manipulative skill, etc. Show!Stannis demonstrates how pragmatism, even in the name of justice and/or order, can be self-destructive. My objection was that, due to the problems with the rest of Season 5, they couldn't do that idea justice with regards to the character. Instead of a steady erosion of his values in the name of the throne, Stannis jumps off the slippery slope rather quickly, which felt a bit out of character for me.
Blah Blah what if Stannis asked for Robb Starks help send Davos to speak to him Robb attack from the land and Stannis from the Sea easily the same amount of soldiers that Robert and Ned had ar the Trident 40 thousand 25 from Robb under 20 for Stannis
Blah Blah What if he accepted Robb and gave him guarantees that when he sat the throne he could be king in the North
What if Mance Rayder bend the Knee to Stannis?
Stannis turns the entire North against him and gets slaughtered even faster
Not really, he gets an army of wildlings and the North could not raise an army big enough to stop him. Not only that, he gets an army that knows how to fight in winter, the problem with Stannis’ army was it was a Southern army fighting in the North.
It wouldn’t change much....
WHAT IF - Sansa did not lie in the first episode?
2nd episode
no changes.
direwolves will still probably die in kings landing. this is atually worse because it means Nymeria might have died too
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Probably since it was this event that stirred Ned to bring Syrio to teach Arya to fight so she would of been captured and the wolves would of been shot down by crossbow bolts. Assuming someone like littlefinger didn't try to have them killed before this.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 wtf no if she didnt lie everyone would know joffrey is guilty and nuthin would happen to the wolves
@@eyosyastebeje9555 why would that stop the war
What if Robert and Rhaegar killed each other during the Battle of the Trident? Making Stannis the king from the very beginning of the story.
Stannis would either release Jaime from the Kingsguard or probably send him to the wall for breaking his vows, so that means if he marries Cersei their children would be true Baratheons. The war of the five kings will never happen, and even the original Stark and Lannister rebellion won't go too far, Stannis would put an end to it. Stannis would remain as king because I don't think Cersei would have a need to kill him. I'm not entirely sure if Stannis would want to send assassins after Dany. The only immediate danger to the realm would be Mance Rayder with the Freefolk and the White Walkers, but with no war going on Stannis could easily unite the seven kingdoms to fight against them, by the time Dany arrives in Westeros the realm would be better prepared for the White Walker invasion. Stannis would probably form an alliance with Daenerys to fight against the army of the dead, but once that's over they would go to war for the Iron Throne. It would be a bloody war and Dany will probably be successful in taken the throne but I don't think she would remain as the queen for long, because I doubt Dorne and the Iron Islands would support her this time, and even more unlikely that she will get any help from the North. If any of Stannis children survived the war against Daenerys then they would rule the seven kingdoms. Or at least that's how I imagine it would go.
Why would Stannis be king? Shouldn’t it be Ned?
@@willcc19-18 For several reasons actually. Stannis is the brother of the guy the rebellion was named after(Robert's rebellion) and with Robert dead it is only logical that Stannis would become king instead. There's also the fact that Stannis has a better claim to the Iron Throne, he is a descendant of the Targaryens, and that would help the Targaryens loyalists to be more open to have Stannis as king. But most importantly, Ned would probably refused to be king even if he was asked.
Horacio Poggi true. I just think Ned would be a better King than Stannis. But Ned knows his place is in the north
@@Horacio_Poggi i think it would have been one of the leader's of the rebellion not Stannis either Jon arryn or Ned
What If Littlefinger didn't betray Ned Stark in season 1
Chev Chelios
Then there wouldn't be a war of the five kings
Long live the Protector of the Realm?
Nah Ned would come to rally behind Stannis' claim because he was the next *legitimate* heir... Gendry is actually the rightful not legitimate heir.
This case scenario is literally impossible
+Primarch Alpharius What? How is Gendry king before Stannis? Stannis is king by right and law. Gendry is only a bastard, only rightful heir if he's legitimized. However I do support Gendry becoming the one true king at the end.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' I see Stannis making Gendry his heir, so that he can train Gendry to be king after his death.
What if: Robb and Margaery were married after Renly's death
Sydney Hill
Instead of stupid Westerlings i like Jayne it's just her mother i hate she was always a sly one
As for Margery they would of been the best couple ever
@@richardfitzpatrick9732 Agreed, they would've had some beautiful children
@Marie Kondo She could persuade Robb to take the throne and play up on the fact the people need a good King. Also, show Stannis isn't as likable as he is in the book.
What if Olenna Tyrell managed to poison both Joffrey and Cersei during the purple wedding?
either tyrion or oberyn still murder Tywin. i guess power would fall to Kevan Lannister who becomes the new Hand. or Mace Tyrell.
nether would arm the faith so westeros is peaceful until Dany invades.
With the death of Cersei, Jaime is more inclined to believe Tyrion was involved.
BUT.... WITHOUT Cersei, the trial against Tyrion is far less powerful, as Cersei does not move several Small Council members against him.
The problem of course is that Tywin still brings Shae into his custody, but I don't think he would stack the trial against Tyrion so heavily. Though he is loathe to admit it, Tyrion is a resource that is too valuable to simply throw away, and he needs Jaime to come to him to make the offer to forswear his Kingsguard vows in return for Tyrion's life, which he cannot guarantee Jaime would do now that Jaime is less sure about Tyrion's guilt or innocence. Tyrion is found innocent, or at least innocent enough that he is not categorically guilty, but he would be asked to publicly condemn Sansa as being involved.
Common wisdom WOULD say that Oberyn is not so brash as to brazenly murder Tywin. As he himself says, "If I cut your throat today, I will be drawn and quartered tomorrow." So instead, Oberyn goes to great lengths to have Tywin die under suspicious, but not damning, circumstances, knowing what happens next.
Tywin likely has placed contingencies that if he dies, Oberyn be imprisoned. Of course, Oberyn immediately demands a trial by combat, *knowing* that Kevan or Jaime would call upon The Mountain. Without needing to hear The Mountain name Tywin as who gave the order to murder Elia, Oberyn does not take his time at the end of the fight taunting or interrogating him; he simply kills him, effectively gaming the system and allowing himself to complete his vengeance without becoming a criminal. Oberyn returns to Dorne, having grown bored of King's Landing, and knowing that Kevan is likely to have him killed if he stays. This leaves us in an... interesting position. Kevan Lannister is Hand and *desperate* for allies in governance, so I imagine he brings Tyrion back to the Small Council as Master of Coin. With Lancel in the Faith Militant, Kevan successfully pleads with Jaime to leave the Kingsguard(while Jaime obviously wanted to be a Kingsguard, he originally did it so he could stay with Cersei; with Cersei and his father both dead, and a now *THIRD* dead king under his watch, I feel like Jaime would take his leave)so that House Lannister still had the potential for the firstborn line to continue.
Nobody is stupid or desperate enough to arm the Faith Militant. The High Sparrow's revolution is swiftly put down and Kevan sends Lancel back home. Tyrion becomes extremely loyal to Tommen, seeing the good Tommen may still do later in life. Varys likely questions his Targaryen Restoration plans; Myrcella marries Prince Trystane, firmly forming a powerful triple-alliance between The Westerlands, The Reach, and Dorne.
Littlefinger still does his side of things; marries then murders Lysa Arryn, Sansa reveals herself in confidence to the Lords of the Vale, then he marries her to the Boltons, hoping to secure a North-Vale alliance under his control. Ramsay's marriage to Sansa makes House Bolton a sworn enemy of the Crown, as now it is the public position of the Crown that Sansa killed Cersei and Joffrey. Without the ability to play upon Cersei's paranoia to make himself appear innocent, Littlefinger is also an enemy of the Crown, and thus does not need to leave Sansa alone in Winterfell, meaning Ramsay feels compelled to maintain his mask of being a decent person to Littlefinger, MEANING he likely doesn't force himself on her in the same fashion, for concern of turning The Vale against him. Littlefinger likely conspires with Ramsay to kill Roose more discreetly, then advises Ramsay press Sansa's claim to Riverrun. The North and Vale march on the Riverlands, wipe out House Frey, and the River Lords under Brynden and Edmure Tully pledge allegiance to Sansa. Ramsay barely has time to start worrying that all of his allies are only on his side as long as Sansa is before Littlefinger has him killed, leaving Sansa alone as Lady of the North and Riverlands, as well as having a powerful alliance with the Vale. However, this means Littlefinger also gains respect in the North, as he is seen working to avenge the Red Wedding. He probably spreads some of those rumors himself, strengthening his position and his political protection.
Arya returns shortly thereafter, ironically with most of the names on her list crossed off before she even lands in Westeros. She reunites with Sansa, Rickon, and the recently-departed from the Night's Watch Jon Snow, who is perfectly content to be in Sansa's service. A stage is being set for a new war; the only regions currently undeclared are the Iron Islands and Storm's End. With Theon freed and likely returned to the Islands, Euron still returns and announces his intentions to sail for Meereen, becoming Lord there. Theon and Yara beat him there, so Euron instead turns his sights on Sansa, though I doubt he has any luck winning her over with his particular.... errr.... "charms." Honestly kind of hard to say where he goes from here; maybe he still makes an attempt to win Dany over and gets absolutely murdered by dragons, giving Yara full control of the Iron Fleet?
With Davos working alongside Jon, and with Melisandre present as well, it's plausible Sansa and/or Littlefinger learn about Gendry and begin efforts to locate him. Davos does not hate Melisandre the same way, as the Stark Restoration Army doesn't march on Winterfell and therefore does not stumble on Stannis' former camp where Shireen was burned. It's around this point Jon stresses the need to return to the North and prepare for the Army of the Dead, and a temporary peace agreement is reached with the Crown, since Tyrion would trust Jon when he says they plan to return North to deal with an approaching threat. This allows the River and Vale lords to go North without threat from the Royal Army.... but I think Arya goes to King's Landing and looks for Gendry, extracting him and taking him North. Littlefinger then spreads the rumor that the last of the Baratheon line fights with the North, incentivizing some in the Stormlands to either remain neutral or march to join the North.
As this is all happening, Dany's story *mostly* moves along the same path, except Tyrion is not there to curb her worse impulses, meaning she likely enters Westeros with Daario by her side. She likely lands in a Westeros utterly divided and seemingly on the verge of another war. With her goal being the Iron Throne, she reaches out to the Northern Alliance, only for Varys to learn it is largely headed by Littlefinger, who then cautions her against him. Dany is without allies other than those she brought with her, and so she makes war against the Crown while the North prepares for the army of the dead. Though the North has no dragons, neither do the White Walkers have a dragon to blow through The Wall, dramatically increasing The North's timeline.
Hard to say what happens after that. Assuming the Night King dies, it is likely still Arya that delivers the killing blow. Nobody in the Northern Alliance has the authority to formally name Gendry the Lord of Storm's End. The Northern Alliance's army is utterly shattered, leaving no capacity to resist Dany, who doubtlessly wins the war for the Crown, so I imagine they submit. Arya also still kills Littlefinger after learning about his betrayal of Ned Stark, with a public trial in which his guilt is confirmed.
Ironically.... Without all the problems, without losing two of her dragons and without losing Jorah and Missandei and the loyalty of Varys, without the trials and tribulations and mounting frustrations, I don't think Dany goes 'Mad Queen' mode. The Reach defects as Dany approaches, proclaiming that they have awaited a Targaryen restoration; Loras is offered to Dany as a husband, and though she probably takes him, I doubt she lets him sit the Throne. She likely adopts something like the Dornish tradition of the eldest child ruling, be they man or woman. Margaery's children with Tommen are probably installed as Lords of Highgarden, losing the Baratheon name and forswearing all royal claims. Kevan Lannister is killed. Varys likely tells Dany that Tyrion, if loyal, would be a highly effective advisor and possibly Hand; Tommen is sent into exile, perhaps to Dorne with Myrcella.
Dany then has the issue of her army; The Dothraki are loyal, but they are also raiders, pillagers, and warmongers. They would not likely be content to beat their arakhs into farming tools. If she does not use them, they will grow restless and their loyalty will wane. Dany begins slow preparations to begin a crusade of conquest across Essos; The former Slave Cities are already hers, and she still possesses three full-grown dragons.
Within a century, the known world falls to the Last of the Valyrians and House Targaryen dominates the world.
What if Ramsay was a genuinely good guy and helped Theon escape? Possibly leading Theon to return to Robb before the Red Wedding?
Even If Ramsey was a good man Theon took winterfell and pretended to kill both bran and rickon. The Ironborn were offered free passege home if they gave away Theon and they did, but Ramsey killed them anyway.
If Ramsey was a good northman he would just send the Ironborn home as promissed by his king and either execute Theon performing the "kings justice" or sent him to Rob so he could execute him himself.
Either way Theon dies even in a world that Rob dies in the Red wedding before Theon meets him because he fate is already traced at that point.
If Ramsey is a good man but there are a still a Roose Bolton betreyal via Red Wedding a shocked Ramsey would probably execute Theon himself as to just execute the last order from his previous king or Roose would sell Theon to the Ironborn as he would do before Ramsey castrated him.
What if Domeric (roose Bolton's trueborn son) survived Ramsay's assassination attempt
What if Arya killed Joffrey after sword fight with butchers boy??
rugged english much improved story, even better though whom Joffry is bitching because area beet him without training have Ned cut him in half.
Arya dies or Ned ships her off somewhere before she can get caught lmao.
Stannis would fight with Lannisters anyway because he knew that Joffrey and Tommen were bastards before Ned arrived to King's Landing.
"Bend the knee and you'll rise Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell."
Jon: "I accept Your Grace, on one condition."
Stannis: "What condition?"
Jon: "If we die, we need an army on The Wall. The Night's Watch has 50 men, not enough to fight The Others. Let me bring The Wildlings South."
Stannis: Stannis exe has stopped working
I've had ideas for these what if videos that you could do on the break and I've really enjoyed this so yeah! Would like to see your opinions on the what ifs:
1. What if Theon goes to the Nights watch when the boltons show up?
2. What if Stannis didn't kill Renly?
3. What if Ned Stark sided with Renly and took his 100 guards?
Great WHAT IF! :D
Also, I think Sam would be fine, because Stannis liked him really much. So he'd either send him to Oldtown to become a maester, or just bring him down south to a bigger and better library.
Their interraction in the library in Castle Black Stannis said: ''If the white walkers come, we need to know how to defeat them.. *nods* Keep reading Samwell Tarly''
What if Tommen doesn't try to fly ?
Robin/Robert Arryn would somehow make him fly through the moon door instead...
What if tommen jumps but down there was a trampooline
What if Selmy and Dayne are the guards at the tower of joy?
What if Joanna Lannister didn't die giving birth to Tyrion
Alex Papamichail Tywin would be less of a dick to Tyrion and Cersei might feel sorry for Tyrion, all in all life works out better for the Lannister’s + we get to see Tywin smile maybe?
wt if tyrion would not be dwarf
What if Stannis caught Viserys and Daenerys?
The Night King wins.
Primarch Alpharius hmm a lot of differences happen. Does Robert still give DragonStone to Stannis? Stannis thought that Robert gave it to him in spite for not being able to catch the Targayens. So for this scenario the Targaryen dynasty has ended officially and the Baratheon dynasty is ensured as the sole kingship by all and Stannis becomes lord of Storms End instead of Dragonstone. Without him in Dragonstone a WHOLE LOT OF SHIT changes. Would Melisandre still find him, she came to Dragonstone looking for Azor Ahai she would find a young Renly, and he would probably make her go away. Stannis at Storm's End would foster young Loras (that's how Renly and Loras met and fell in love) I don't know how that would go Stannis isn't exactly the fun uncle or as charismatic as Renly, though perhaps Davos and Loras get a relationship or Shireen gets her first possible bethoral. By the time of the events of Game of Thrones, we have a Loras who is closer to Shireen and Davos than he is to Renly, a much wealthier and more powerful Stannis, and no Melisandre in the story. OK so Renly is still loved by many and respected by the smallfolk especially in Kings Landing. So basically everything happens exactly the same except that Renly doesn't declare himself King to Eddard or anyone (Loras gave him the idea) and follows Stannis. Stannis after hearing of Joffery's and Tommen's illegitimatacy would declare himself King, with the his large fleet and Stormlands. He instantly becomes a strong contender. With Renly by his side and the Stormlands he isn't as hesitant to press his claim late and does it earlier like when Renly did it, and its possible that even Robb declares for him before the meeting. Sure you could argue they prefer Robb but the entire meeting was to see what they where going to do about Renly, and the throne. With Stannis declaring its likely it doesn't come to a heated discussion over Renly or Stannis leading to the climactic King of The North. Rather just joining Stannis. With this the Tyrells don't join the lannnisters. The North,Riverlands,Stormlands (and although have not declared for anyone are just as likely to join, Dorne and Vale) I think Dorne will join Stannis since they want revenge for the death of Elia Martell and her children and no targaryens to join. The Tyrrell's are all about joining the winning side, despite the chance of making Margarery queen its too risky and either Join Stannis or less likely remain neutral. They could make a marriage with Loras and Shireen or more likely Loras and Sansa, Maragery and Renly (not any direct control on the throne, but next in line) Stannis and co. take Kings Landing burn Joffery and Tommen and Myrcella and maybe Cersei. Tywin either sues for peace beforehand making Tommen take the black and Myrcella join the silent sisters and possibly even losing his. Warden of the Westerlands title. Or perhaps Stan the Man doesn't care and burns the abominations anyway. Either way Lannisters lose, and Stannis is king. Iron isles might attack the Westerlands if its so one-sided to Stannis and the North, sacking lannisport. Robb heads the Night Watch's pleas for help and Stannis helps as it is his duty to keep the kingdoms safe. So Jon, Robb, and Stannis lead the war against the Night King and most likely win with Wildfire, +population, Dragonglass, and better preparations than in our timeline. So a better Westeros had Stannis caught those pesky fuckers. Oh and the slaves in Meeren, Astapoh, and Yunkai stay enslaved, Drogo lives, Arya doesn't go to the faceless men, and the Baratheon dynasty survives.
Would the Targaryens be killed though? Stannis and Robert both have no love for them, but would they be inclined to kill a young kid and a newborn child?
Robert and the lannisters would approve, though Jon Arryn and Ned might argue, Robert's hate would be the highest because Lyanna's death would have just reached him. Stannis would either turn them in to Robert to execute or do it himself
The Mad King I think he would 100% do that
What if the red wedding never happened
What if Ned accepts Littlefinger's suggestion about acting as king until Joffrey comes of age ands ruling together with Littlefinger?
Interesting ThingsAndStuff What?
Ned would still be dead.
Yeah, that doesn’t stop Cersei from doing the same she did.
What if Catelyn didn't release jaime? What if Robb did marry a frey?
What If Obryn Killed The Mountain In Tryions Trial For Combat
Madelyn Shaw-Mackay that already exists
Well he did in the books but the maester dude frankineteined him
What if Renly accepted to bend the knee to Stannis when they met ?
As opposed to :
What if Renly didn't claimed the Iron Throne after Robert's death ?
What if Ned Stark accept offer from Renly Baratheon in season 1 ruclips.net/video/Nx1azK3QxdU/видео.html
what if Robert makes Stannis warden of the east after Jon Arryn's death like Ned suggested?
Daniel Delgado Stannis brings the knights around and engages tywin while he takes kings landing. No tywin no relief.
Daniel Delgado it be the best thing for the realm at least he would make some allies or friend's if Robert dies
Stannis would immediately gather his army after Robert's death. 20,000 Knights of The Vale and 5,000 Knights of Dragonstone. Around that time, Ned would've been arrested and Robb would've entered The Riverlands. If Stannis plays his cards right, he can meet with Robb and Robb can declare for him. Stannis would go South to face Tywin while Robb crosses The Twins and fights Jaime. With both Lannister armies destroyed, Stannis and Robb would easily march on King's Landing and take it.
Glad to see you've brought back this great series. For a suggestion how about, What If Asia killed the Hound (at the end of season 4)
Arya*
Asia? Lol.
What if the Sandsnakes were apprehended after killing the Martylls rather than being allowed to rule?
You mean if D&D were actually competent writers?
the entire Dorne plot in the show is so stupid it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic
I have a theory! What if D & D did the Arienne plot
My Soup Too cold
It would be deadly maybe just have Arriane in the show and not have the Sandsnakes kill Myrcella or the Doran so stupid and have Aero Hotah as a bad ass and not with a shite Axe it's not even a axe in the show more like a spear
Play it out that Arriane is angry and wants revenge so kidnapping Mycella would have to be made more exciting
What if cersei and robert first son survives.
Jack Smith Survived the poison or there was never an attempt at his life?
Edit- Don't talk shit. My eyes deceived me and I thought it said Jaime. Don't ask how, because I don't even know.
Imagine if it turned out to be Gendry
Then Robert would become very odd about his first kid and the rest of the kids have no resembles to his side?
WHAT IF Loras marries Cersei, to complete what Olenna was talking about
Loras: Margaery's brother, Margery's father in law, Joffrey's brother in law, Joffrey's father in law
Loras' kid: Margaery's nephew, Joffery's half brother, Joffrey's cousin
Margaery's kid: Cersei's grand son, Cersei's nephew,
I'm getting really confused here...
Well at least it ain’t incest
I could even imagine Ramsay trying to sell out his Father to Stannis and try to safe himself and maybe remain Lord of the Dreadfort.
Glad to see another What If video! It's been quite some time, but worth the wait
What if Cersei marries Rhaegar? She was promised to him at one point.
He already did a video like that.
In my opinion for cersei lannister to be betrothal to the prince, it would be better if Aerys was long but dead or a completely different man.
I am fairly sure it was only talked about and not concrete. Hence why when it was brought to Aerys for approval. He nixed it.
I think ive got an intriguing 'what if' for ya: WHAT IF tyrion wasnt born a dwarf? Jamie jr? special baby golden boy? or STILL just a lousy 2nd son?
love your content man!
I believe Dany would've been defeated by Stannis to be honest
what happens to her dragons? Do they just disappear. She'd probably just burn his fleets and defences and her men would march through the gates.
stannis is the best
Boby Gandhi He's much smarter than either Cersei or Jaime. With Euron wanting to go against Dany all the same stuff would happen and yadda yadda yadda. But Stannis would put much more defense into protecting the North, so Jon would probably go to Dany and ask for help and explains and stuff. So Daenrys with the Reach and Dorne vs Stannis with the Storm lands, Vale, Riverlands, North, Westerlands, and Iron Isles would be very one-sided. Would Tyrion attack Casterly Rock or Storm's End? If he goes for Storms end Greyworm and the Unsullied die, If he goes for Casterly Rock, nothing severe to Stannis happens. Of course Dragons blah blah and Dothraki ensure that the Tarlys die and she gains the Reach and the battle would continue consuming many lives, until Jon comes in and does the same shit he did with Dany in S7 and then continue to make a peace so they could go for the WW first. The maesters under Stannis and Jon's orders would begin to search of ways to beat them and Samwell will stay. I guess Jon would do the same shiet he did before and attack the WW force. Dany falling in love goes Deus Ex Dragon and saves him like before. But this time she buys into the idea and Jon tells Stannis to postpone to save the kingdom and with Davos he grudgingly agrees. HOWEVER with Viserion dead its very likely Stannis will try and push for ways to kill the Dragons and with the Ice Dragon and Rhaegal and Drogon in danger, Stannis after the Great War would slaughter the Dothraki (Would the Tyrell house be destroyed? Stannis wouldn't kill them, but Olenna would die, idk about Loras, Margery, and Mace) the Sand snakes, and whoever else thinks she can lead. Without her dragons in a land she has no experience in and against the greatest military commander of Westeros and support of the Iron Bank, dany would fight a losinv battle. Unless she tries to sue for peace and marries Jon or Jon's parentage is revealed and she tries to push for him to gather the North to her side. I doubt she'd be successful though, Jon sees himself more as a Stark and always Ned as his Father, Ned died for Stannis, he won't destroy his memory. Although he could very well be neutral. Daenrys would still fall to Stannis. Stannis is made king without any rivals for once lol. And begins rebuilding westeros in his image, which after suffering the bloodiest age in its history, Stannis purge of corruption and equality among the lowborn and highborn would cause him to create a much stronger unified Westeros void of people like Little finger(who would've died along the way) and Varys (who he'd execute for sure) and more honorable people like Jon and Davos rise under Stannis rule
If stannis won lets be real here dany would only be seen as a foreign tyrant who likes to murder
AmbitiousRam that's an accurate description
Really liking this Jon stannis mannis combo.
Yeah this is an awesome "what if" scenario and so complex that it makes great rewatching.
I feel like Ramsay would flee as the battle is being lost and hold a knife to Sansa's throat as Stannis' forces get into winterfell. I think he'd definitely kill her.
I just realized how OOC it was for Stannis to offer Jon the stark name. If he does that, and Jon joins him, that makes Jon a deserter, which means death. That's the entire lesson with Davos. "A good deed doesn't wash away the bad."
i love these "what if" videos! i've pondered many of these myself. you're awesome. and very funny. :)
Not might be very interesting, but what if Cersei poisoned Tommen during the Battle of the Blackwater. Would the Tyrells kill Joffrey if there was no other King for Margaery to marry?
Still waiting on What If Samwell never joined the Night's Watch
Taylor Manton she would've died. The end
Stephen Barnes she?
he ate his mother
What if Robert gave Stannis Storm's End?
Great Video! Can you please do a "What If : Ned Stark died at the Tower of Joy?"
What if King Aerys Targaryen didn't become the mad king?
Thank you! I've been waiting for this for soooo long!
What if Howland Reed wouldn’t have stabbed Arthur Dayne in the Tower of Joy?
What if Balon Greyjoy joined Robs rebellion in the war of the 5 kings?
What if Robb married yara
Thing is though, if Stannis didn't have the authority to make Jon a Stark then Daenerys didn't have the authority to make Gendry a Baratheon.
Bran would and I doubt Bran cared enough to just say "nope, still a bastard." Also Daenerys legitimacy as at least the Queen of Meereen by right of conquest was not in question. Stannis being king of anything was.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 The Queen of Mereen doesn't have authority in Westeros.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Just the Warden of the South doesn''t have authority in the North because it's beyond their jurasticion and jurastiction means everything.
What if Ned told Jon about his true heritage when he was growing up or at the king's road? I feel like this would dramatically change Jon's path in life
What if Robb fell for Margery Tyrell instead of Jayne? Cat even said as much at one point.
I think Jon would of been more clever then to do a head on attack against Winterfell. He most likely would of taken a group of soldiers through the crypts secret entrance at night and opened the gates Troy style. He knows the Boltons have Sansa and he wouldn't want to risk her life. Also Sansa was getting through to Theon at this point so maybe he would of redeemed himself by bringing her to Jon or straight up died in the chaos.
Stannis would leave the decision of Theons fate to Jon and had he chose to spare Theon for saving Sansa they may have used that to try to get the Greyjoy fleet on their side which would cause problems for Euron who may have sided with the Lannisters sooner.
There is also Brienne. Would she still try to kill Stannis if he takes Winterfell and essentially does her job by saving Sansa I'd like to think she would do her duty and stand by her instead.
When Stannis takes kings landing he would still have control of Dragonstone so Dany would need to land at Dorne instead but they would have probably already sided with Stannis against the Lannisters. It depends on if the Sept was still standing at this point since Ollenna wouldn't need to go to Dorne.
Most likely by the time Dany arrives if she does at all the country would already be preparing for the white walkers and I think Tyrion would be the deciding factor on if she tried to take the throne or use her dragons and army to help Westeros.
I think if Dany met Shireen she would probably return to the bay of dragons once the night king was defeated.
Seeing Stannis, Jon and Dany leading their United armies would be epic!
2:49. Don't forget the 143 men pledged from House Mazin! :)
Karlstarks would be neutral, there’s no chance they’d join the boltons
what if sansa had to go through the things that arya went through and viceversa (arya stays in kingslanding with the lannister, and sansa left kingslanding )(i don't think they would have survived long)
Stannis had the power to and he is the only leader to believe in the threat from the white walkers. Stannis is the only one serious and willing to fight the white walkers beside Jon.
Why do you think House Umber would join? They already had a Stark - Rickon - in their pocket; if they wanted to make a move based on Stark legitimacy they could've done so with Rickon as the puppet, but SmallJon calling all the shots, essentially acting as regent + general, and taking effective control of the north. They didn't though, they chose the Boltons.
Borjigin because jon rescued the wildlings.
Umbers only betrayed because of the wildlings
Stannis did burn Mance Rayder and stop the wildlings at the wall. The Umbers would join him.
The Umbers never were the most intelligent of Houses.
Only 1 episode left this season :(
taking notes my friend good idea for something to base a work for archive of our own :)
What if Qyburn died at Harrenhal? As the mastermind behind the Zombie Mountain and the destruction of the Sept of Baelor, AND Cersei's Master of Whispers, his absence would leave serious implications on the late-game plot.
viperblitz11 this!
Watched one of your vids and I got hooked! Noice contents~~
Good video although I don't think Danny taking the Iron Throne would be as easy since Stanis may have a united Kingdom over Cersei's fearful reign. Honestly I think this outcome would be much more interesting with two sides you would be rooting for with Stanis vs Daenerys. No good vs evil here just shades of gray. Would have made for far more compelling TV.
Yeah Dorne might side with Stannis because they would likely marry Trystane to Shireen in return for loyalty or they would side with Daenerys in hopes to marry Trystane to Danny.
High Garden might side with Daenerys but it wouldn't tip the scale.
The Lannisters would stay out of it.
The Starks would stay loyal.
The Reach wouldn't be ruled by little finger yet so they would stay out of it due to their blood ties with the Riverlands.
The Riverlands would side with the Starks.
I could see Stanis winning the war if Daenerys acts the same way she did when fighting the Lannisters, only with the use of Dragons do I see her winning but either way its a pretty even battle and would have been some great TV.
8:13 I believe the word is treasonous, not traitorous
Jon Snow was dumb to refuse Stannis’s offer here & literally costed him his life….
If Jon Stark joined Stannis he would’ve avoided death & taken his family’s seat back!
As it was well established the North can’t fight the Walkers AND the Boltons too. Jon helping Stannis & the south would’ve helped the nights watch too
I love the blue eyed white Dragon reference
here's a what if question for you: what if the targeryans were all married in more or less equal numbers into the lannister stark and baratheon families? that would make some sense, since these families would want the knowledge of dragon lore the targeryans had, and thus the dragons themselves would be balanced against each other as deterrant weapons.
Makes sense. The Starks control a 1/3 of Westeros, The Lannisters are the richest family, and The Baratheons are a ferocious House and are part Targaryen.
Jon could have said he will go if he gives passage to the Wildlings and waits for his return.
If Stannis agrees to wait(a hard task) then Jon would most likely add a thousand or so wildings to Stannis army in exchange for farming rights with Stannis army being granted a sum of each supply in the future until the war is done.
In this scenario The North is a little more untrusting with the Wildlings working for Jon but manys loyaltys will overweigh that distrust and with Stannis's army backing jon as well more will also be willing to back his force now.
In this scenario Ramsay will not charge out into battle and will instead hold up in Winterfell for a siege.
Boltons army is only loyal due to fear however so the siege shouldnt last that long until a betrayel. Ramsey will most likely know this and try to do a raid to gain morale in some way or to lower the enemy supplies and numbers.
This wont work that well for Ramsey however for Stannis will have higher numbers this time and Wildlings have worgs that will be able to prevent any ambushes more easily. This might even result in ramsey being betrayed mid raid to be captured and killed.
If Ramsey isnt killed the Vale will most likely come to "aid' by Little finger in order to gain favor with the winning side and with Sansa claiming he was tricked.
After this siege however Stannis will most likely make Winterfell a new home base with Rickon taking the warden position possibly Jon.
From here it gets iffy for Danny will be coming a month or so after stannis captures winterfell and regroups a little. Hes very unwilling to shake his mindsets so Danny will probably capture Dragonstone while hes away and Jon will have to pick a side or him and the red lady will need to broker some deal which will be VERY hard
What if Sansa actually was Little Finger's daughter?
What if Robb had married the Frey girl?
What if Cersei had left the capital with her children and gone into hiding when Ned give her the chance?
What if Mance Rayder had tried to kidnap Sansa when he was at Winterfell (as he insinuated he wanted to when he meet Jon) ?
What if Cersei never had any children?
What if Bran went south with his father and sisters?
What if the guards had let Arya and the hound in when they arrived at the Vale?
What if Tyrion had gotten Sansa pregnant?
What if Ned tells Robert that Joffrey Myrsella and Tommen are not his children before he leaves for the hunt?
Gendry might actually be legitimized and Ned gets placed as Protector of the Realm until Gendri is ready to rule.
Gendry also marries Sansa or that bitch from high garden.
Also Danny gets assassinated.
друг or he names stannis his heir
What if Alister Throne went with Jon Snow to Hardholme? Being that he did not sabotage the negotiations and survived the encounter and seeing the full threat of the Night King.
I think you should do a part 2. Theorized what you think would happen in the Great War
Stannis has the power and the right to turn Jon into a Stark
YAY My idea!!
Great video as always. Only one small disagreement with you. I think that the Lannisters not having Cersei but only Jaime and Kevan would be beneficial to protecting Kings Landing. Cersei is an idiot. She would just screw up everything while Kevan and Jaime are seasoned and decorated warriors. I mean Jaime crushed House Tully with only half of the Lannister forces before Robb surprised him but only because he thought Robb would attack Tywin. It was also his idea to let the Unsullied take the Rock and go for Highgarden. Also he defeated the Blackfish without having to kill anyone. And Kevan has always been apart of Tywins decision making. Granted. They're still no match for Stannis and possibly Tarly (and Jon who is an underrated commander).
I don't think Jon accepting Stannis offer would mean he wouldn't go to Hardhome. Remember, Stannis understands that the war against the Whitewalkers is the ultimate problem that needs to handled. If Jon accepted Stannis' offer, I think he'd still convince Stannis that the Wildings at Hardhome need to be saved, both to get more men to fight the Whitewalkers, and prevent the Whitewalkers from gaining more troops. Stannis would understand this and agree to let Jon go save them.
In the unlikely event that Stannis didn't understand, then Jon would make accepting the offer conditional: He would only accept Stannis offer if Stannis agreed to let him go save the Wildlings. Stannis is a man who knows a good deal when he sees one, so I'm sure he'd accept the terms.
ok, from the get-go: Stannis absolutely had authority to legitimize Jon. Because at that point, he IS king. someone else claim to be king in his stead. That is not debatable. the moment Bobby B died, Stannis became king
Agreed. One thing, would Stannis have waited for Jon to gain the allegiance of The Wildlings?
@@gfilmer7150 probably not. At the time, he had alot of men, and winter is coming. No guarantee that Jon would succeed, or even survive.
@@kimdaniel98 Good point. Sad because Stannis might’ve needed The Wildlings in case The Others attacked The Wall during his siege of Winterfell.
everyone in the realm was debating it. most of the realm thought Stannis was a lying jealous uncle delegitimizing his nephews to get the throne for his own selfish ends. okay WE know he has the best claim but most Westerosi don't. even if they do believe Stannis claim he has a foreign god and foreign witch, not to mention the bulk of his forces being foreign sellswords. not the best recipe for a popular king that people will listen to. anyone can crown themselves a king. its whether people accept you that make you a king.
What if Varys never came to Kings Landing on King Aerys' order?
Good work man
What if melisandre killed gendry
What if the fall had killed bran
What if Ned had declined Robert's offer to be hand of the king?
I was waiting for the "And then Jon Stark goes of to Greywater watch to live with house Reed"
What if Maester Aemon took the Iron Throne instead of refusing it?
Everything would be different, Eddard could never been born, Robert would not exist because his grandmother was a daughter of Aegon V. Dany is also a descendant from Aegon V so she doesnt exist either and Brynden Rivers would never go to the Wall, because Aegon was the one who sent him there.
Solid story telling.
I think Stannis and Dany would come to a truce much like the one Cersei and Dany agreed to in order to fight the dead together, but I know Stannis would actually send his forces to fight along with Dany's instead of just lying about it. Then idk because we don't know what happens yet. I'd assume either Stannis or Dany die in the war and whomever is alive peacefully ascends to the throne and Jon tells Bran and Sam to never tell anyone the truth about his parentage.
I would see Jon as arguing to first save as many wilding/Free Folk as they can with Stannis ships unless I’m wrong about his ships then everything hurts in wildfire
Actually they would be forced to fight the Freys to go south which would lead to Edmure being released and the riverlands would join them along with Dorne
Not sure about the Umbers ... The Boltons ruling the North in S04 , Umbers may be ,switched alliance at this point .
RIP Great Jon
Looking back i think there is a loophole for jon leaving the nights watch, kinda. As it was Jon Snow who took the Black but Jon Stark who would have left
I think Jon probably would've been able to get Stannis and Daenerys to hold off fighting each other until the night king was defeated. From there I'm guessing Jon would've remained neutral in the fight between Stannis and Dany or would've fought with Stannis since he respected him and more than likely would've had to swear a vow to serve Stannis once he took the throne. Maybe Rhaegar abandons Dany and flocks to Jon?
Rhaegal*
I love how no matter what scenario you do it always ends with Dany on the throne lol. She was smart to wait in Essos until all the key players had killed each other off.
I'll never get over how pissed 20 good men made me.
What about Brienne in this scenario after all she was right outside of Winterfell waiting for the candle to be lit. She would have to finish her storyline after giving her word into serving Catelyn Stark for the protection of her daughters. As long as it didn't interfere with her own vows she made to get justice for Renley's death by Stannis.
What if Jaime didn't get his hand chopped off and was full-bodied throughout the series.
Max Euron would talk shit a different way
One more day!!!!!!!!!
Here's an interesting What if. What if Cersei Lannister had married Ned Stark shortly after Robert's rebellion if Ned was the one who was made king?
The reason I'm asking this is two fold. One (in the show) Cersei tells Robert that she had felt something for him once, even after they lost their first child. This tells me that she can love someone outside of her brother, at least initially. Two, Eddard Stark, unlike Robert, is a loyal man. If he had married Cersei he would've been 100% devoted to her. How would Cersei have turned out if she was wed to a good man? How ambitious would she have become? How would Ned have faired?
I realize this changes a lot, and I mean TONS of important plot points and details, but I think it such an extreme idea it's worth exploring.
Ned was already married. This was why Hoster Tully join to rebellion - before this Ned had to marry Cat and Jon Arryn Lysa.
Here's what I think would have happened:
In the show;
Jon joins, no houses joins Stannis except for a few minor ones because the North doesn't give a f and the Battle of Winterfell plays out pretty much the same, but this time the Boltons rule the North and there's no good guy to stop them. Sansa might escape, but only to be captured, tortured and Reek would be flayed. The only hope for the Northerners would be Daenerys or perhaps Rickon if the Umbers don't hand him over.
In the books;
Every House that doesn't have a hostage in the arms of the Freys and Boltons joins Stannis. Stannis successfully takes Winterfell and installs Jon as Warden of the North. Theon is burned and Jon finds out that Arya Stark is not at Winterfell, but was Jayne Poole. Any Boltons who survives are given the choice of bending the knee or being burned, except for Ramsey and Roose. Jon pledges to give some of his men to Stannis and aid him in the South, but needs to prepare for the Night King. Stannis says there is no need now since he has gotten his mercenaries which he takes and marches down south.
Stannis liberates the Riverlands from the Lannisters and gets Edmure Tully to pledge to him and burns the Frey lords. If Jaime is found he would burn him for all to see. After that, he goes, together with the Riverland soldiers, and marches on King's Landing.
By now, so much time has passed that we don't know what has happened to King's Landing or Cersei's condition. If she's alive, dead or to stand trial. Assuming the plot of the show is the same as the books, the Tyrells see that the Lannisters are loosing and are discussing if they want to pull out of the marriage with Tommen. The High Sparrow still controls much of the capital and is unable to stop Stannis' march on the city. Stannis takes the city without much difficulty, has Cersei burn to pay for her crimes and holds Tommen hostage to get the remaining Lannisters to sue for peace. The Faith Militant are all burned and the Sept of Balor is converted into a temple for R'hllor. If Stannis plays his cards right, the city might welcome this since the Faith of the Seven would be in a very bad light by now and they might welcome a change.
With both Jaime, Tywin and Kevin dead, the remaining Lannisters are in so much chaos that they have no choice but to sue for peace and the Tyrells realise that there's no point in fighting so they sue for peace. Stannis is crowned King of the Seven Kingdoms. Stannis would take hostages from the Tyrells to keep them from joining Daenerys who is arriving with her army of Unsullied and Dorthraki. Research is made into how Dorne defeated the Targaryens and Scorpions are built around King's Landing to shoot down any Dragon who might fly to burn the keep. Daenerys would probably take Dragonstone, since Stannis would have moved into King's Landing.
Up in the North Jon has been preparing the men for the War for the Dawn and dragonglass has been shipped to Winterfell and other cities/castles through White Harbour. They have tried to recruit as many of the Wilderlings from Mance Rayder as possible, but it is not as many as it could have been due to Janos Slynt being the Lord Commander and a very poor one at that. Wun Wun is not recruited so the Wilderlings are with much lower forces, but Mance and Jon managed to equip the ones they have in chainmail and weapons of Dragonglass. A raven arrives from the Vale. It's from Sansa. Since Sansa doesn't need to be kept secret anymore, she openly reveals herself and her marriage to Harrlod Hardyng to Littlefinger's dismay. Harrold offers to help Jon in the War for the Dawn and thus probably agrees to pledge for Stannis.
This is as far as I am willing to speculate as the books doesn't allow for any further clues as to what will happen.
If you're talking books, Stannis would've gotten to King's Landing at the same time FAegon and The Golden Company would've gotten there. Stannis can't stand up against FAegon.
This isn’t how it would go down, FAegon is attacking the storm lands so Stannis can either fight up north or defend his kingdom.
What if Brother Lance stopped the kid and was able to put out the candles before it ignited the wildfire or What if the High Septon had listened to Queen Margaery and got out of the Great Sept and survived its destruction.
What do you mean we don't gotta have Blue Eyes White Dragon ? We GOTTA have Blue Eyes White Dragon! It makes everything better.