Why is Apple FORCING ATMOS On Us??!!
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- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2023
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Most people don’t realize that the vast majority of people listening to Apple Music are already listening to the Atmos mixes. It’s on by default. And if a song has been mixed in Atmos, which is nearly 100% of top 40 music at this point, and you haven’t turned that setting off yet, you’re already listening to the Atmos Mixes
Indeed, but even though, I couldn’t care less for atmos
Yes, and they will inevitably use these numbers to artificially pad adoption rates to justify barring producers who don’t buy in from their playlists, which most people know is one of the main ways to get your music heard. The issue isn’t that technology is moving forward, you’re right that it probably will get cheaper, the issue is that it’s one more barrier of entry and one more corporation to funnel money from a craft that barely supports most of the people who participate in it. All for a technology that as you said, most listeners aren’t even aware when it’s on! This isn’t like the advent of stereo, this is a proprietary format that most people couldn’t care less about, even when they’re using it. I think Dolby atmos is cool, I like listening to music in it when it’s available, but I’m never going to defend requiring it and say it’s just technology moving forward, because it isn’t. It’s corporate greed designed to funnel more money into the hands of people who already have it, same as what’s happening in every industry right now.
Yes, Atmos mixes on 2 little front speakers😂
This will never be the future! How many people u think will buy 7 speakers to listen music at home? Most listen on cheap headphones or little kitchen radios. Thats all a hype around nothing to get people to buy shit they 'll never need.
U can't compare streaming with Atmos. To stream music is a lot more convenient and cheaper than buying Cd's although i wish it was never invented😂
And the internet speed makes it everywhere possible today.
To be fair , every apple device has been spatializing stereo for years to make it sound better than standard stereo on speakers. Net result was people mistakenly think Apple devices sound better than devices that don't spatialise stereo for speakers.
Important to add RUclips is the biggest player in streaming music. However, they are not factored in rankings because it's free, only subscription music counts towards royalty and so rankings.
You sir are part of BIG ATMOS….. lol. J/k - just waiting for that comment…
I am convinced it's because professional mixing is now easily attainable to anyone and everyone willing to learn how. It is not cost prohibitive. So, the big guys have a new way to start gate-keeping. There is absolutely NO reason for music to be mixed in atmos. It's a format for movies and soundtracks. Nobody wants a high hat coming from over their head, or a synth coming from behind you. A Soundstage is in front. You don't go to a concert and half the band is playing behind you or off to the sides.
wrong….sounds are coming from all around you at any concert
@@allansayers7842 no, they're not. Speakers are in front of the crowd. There are no speakers behind you, or over your head at a concert.
Well said🤞🏽💯they are just moving the goal post
Quite a slow take. There’s still upstage and downstage. Then, there’s still orchestral (which is the whole idea of atmos). If this is your take, then panning is pointless. Dolby Atmos is just a more advanced way to pan sounds. Depending on wether the music producer is educated or not, they will pan instruments according to orchestral standards…
@@cartierquen3586 Says my take is slow, then calls atmos "advanced panning" 🤣 Atmos was not designed for music, it was designed for movie soundtracks. Once again, there is no flute floating above your head, or a string section behind you.
A couple things: I don’t understand how the fold down to stereo from atmos could possibly sound any better than strictly working in stereo. In my mind it could only introduce negative possibilities like phase issues or volume dips, etc.
Second, I could be wrong, but I foresee a massive downswing in the economy in the near future and I think most people will be more concerned about housing and food, rather than expanding their listening experience.
its possible but only cause that Sweetwater studio was perfectly setup along with Mike Miller (top Atmos guy) doing it, most musicians/mixer will not attain this technically perfect setup in their room and techniques. Had he said this fold down happened consistently across a variety of monitoring setups then it sound more realistic.
Because its not a reality. Something brought together by accident on a fold down output sounding better than doing something with intention doesn't make any sense, unless your engineering requires blind luck. You can use binaural plugins in a regular stereo mix right now easily. ATMOS vs Stereo for stereo headphones.. is like Apples vs Apples + Oranges. In Stereo, I can pan something regularly or with a binaural panner AND not have something in a tiny reverb. Not have things phasey. I can use contrast. I can use a masterbuss to process in additive ways you can't with many different objects even with sidechaining. I can have headroom, I can make it loud as hell if want to. If headphones are the end goal, Atmos a limitation. Also this world where stereo dies..vinyl records.. the product that makes artists and some labels more income than streaming.. will be a fold down from Atmos? When that happens I'll believe.
@@CraigScottFrost Most rooms with the height and rear channels are deeply compromised, as its quite difficult to get that many speakers to sound similar whatsoever in different positions even with loads of DSP. Hearing objects between the speakers is sketchy at best as lining up the frequency and more importantly phase response of that many speakers each facing different boundary issues, standing waves and reflection issues theres no real perfect solution.
You guys are exactly right, nobodies buying this...they're just trying to make money and rescue the dead and dying commercial recording industry.
Technological advances are adopted en mass for 2 reasons. 1) it’s cheaper, 2) it’s easier to use. Atmos is neither.
CDs were smaller, portable, and cheaper. Downloading singles on iTunes was cheaper and easier than CDs. Then streaming allowed instant listening for an even cheaper price.
This is 10000% fact.
You hit the nail on the head.
The adoption of stereo from mono disproves your statement. Mono is cheaper and easier yet stereo won out.
@@Sentientfx1 not true stereo became cheaper. The same with cd. Its also not as hard a concept to sell to the public as having to install multiple speakers in a treated room. People don't care, that's why mp3 became so popular. It was the convince. The only way Atmos catches on is through Bluetooth speakers and soundbars.
You will never get the general public to buy multiple speakers until by some miracle you can bring the cost drasticly down. Stereo only required you to buy 1 new speaker.
I know several people who own these mono speakers and sounbars and they have absolutely no idea what Atmos even is.
This is all happening aswell during the biggest increase economically in inequality. In the UK were struggling from a cost of living crisis. No one cares a single bit about some damn Atmos when they're struggling just to heat their house.
@@LukePuzzar234 I'm old enough to remember paying for my stereo as an upgrade to my mono record player. I'm with you on the inequality thing though.
Thanks Colt for the videos however forcing Atmos this way on both the listener and artists/mixers is not an exciting future it's a cautionary tale.
I'm reposting this comment so folks also get a perspective that there are many other countries like mine in this planet where requiring mixing in Atmos is simply a none starter. Amazing music is still made and brought back from archives, uploaded and it's being listened to thanks to playlists, but millions will never get the Atmos treatment just to pass a spec.
I’m a movie/tv sound designer and mixer in Latin America, and not even on that respect is an Atmos mix a delivery requirement because many movie theaters don’t even have Atmos because of cost. And by that analogy regular working folks around here do not have AirPods like in the US because they cost about the same as a couple of months rent and even less a new iPhone, old androids are king, old iPhones are a close second and cheap headphones are the norm.
So if Apple and Spotify are imposing something so elitist to the rest of the 3rd world, which I’m betting are a large part of their customers, they are completely out of touch. Music made, mixed and mastered here is made in very good studios or just regular studios, bedrooms, laptops etc.. but just a very few will ever have Atmos because of the astronomical cost of equipment that will never be paid back by cash strapped artists.
I truly hope Atmos as a requirement in music upload never comes to pass because inevitably one click Atmos solutions will be the norm and quality mixes will be a thing of the past. Great music will be buried and never be recommended because it's not uploaded in Atmos or will be a horribly upconverted mix just to pass spec, it is a regrettable decision.
I looked the first video in the Atmos mix room and what i don't understand is, how u.can hear smething panned left center or behind if u have only 2 speakers? It does disappear, doesn't it?
@@edgarcortes Thx very much! Yes, i only knew it from the theatre
@@michaelleitner4334 ur welcome 😀
Hey, don't forget the developers always are kind for doing backwards compatibility. Guess what we can listen to mono files in our stereo setup, and we can listen to songs mixed in stereo on a mono playback. Same happens upwards, people with just stereo or mono setups will be able to listen to your atmos song, and atmos people will be able to listen to mono and stereo mixes (maybe even with imaging enhancements like some media players have for stereo).
It's not a "i hope they keep it" but more of a of course, it'd be pretty dumb not to. Not to mention, today if someone requires a stereo thing of a very old song, you can use tricks and plugins to get a good sound from a mono file (like separating drums and instruments, putting reverb and widening tonal instruments only, etc), i imagine we will be able to do the same with atmos without too much problem, so no real exclusion if you wait for the tools to arrive.
@@TachyBunker oh I absolutely agree! Atmos tech is quite amazing at adapting to differing speaker setups and development should always be ongoing!
I’m all for listeners always having the option to chose any and all formats they want to experience music in from mono up to and beyond 7.2.4 if they have the means, not pushed by a company to listen in a single format.
This exact choice has been happening in movies and tv though out our lives, we can still watch a mono film that has been remastered to stereo or even given a surround treatment, but we can still listen to the original mono.
I can mix a movie in 7.1.4 and folks with an Atmos sound bar can listen to that mix decoded for their homes. But not all folks have such sound bar so the stereo mix is what is being heard most of the time.
Still people have been given the choice to listen to movies the way they want, full on theatre experience or through a single speaker in their phones.
In that note I do use a lot of that “streoizing” on mono certain sound effects for film and it’s incredibly helpful! What developers can come up with has certainly transformed the music and film industries for the better.
On a curious note I can tell you right now from experience that even movies for festival submission are required to be mixed in 5.1 still, no Atmos, and we’ve had the tech for many more years. This is because foreign independent budgets do not allow such luxuries.
Apple FORCING producers to produce in Atmos will simply bring the opportunity to other streaming services like Spotify to NOT DO SO and to marketize this as being altruistic and supportive to all the "independent artists" and to "real" music as a culture of diversity. This kind of marketing might to work for everyone, but I feel like the number of "conscious listeners" is pretty big among those people that actually pay money to use these streaming services. I would even go so far and question, whether Apple really stands firm with this nonsense in the near future, when other services just don't jump into the same boat.
Yeah, I'm on Spotify and I do not want anything to do with this. I hope Spotify is paying attention to all of the people who hate this.
My big question is whether listeners care in any way about Atmos. Most people consume music in stereo on their phones. And as a bass player that sucks for low end.
So, maybe Atmos will be forced on us producers, but what percentage of people will bother with home Atmos systems?
The same amount of people want Atmos as Electric cars - 1 to 10% of the market. Both are similarly being forced by dark overlords 😈
No one (apart from the very wealthy) will be investing in actual atmos playback systems. It's great for movies, but for music, it sounds "over the top" and sonically messy. Give me mono or stereo.
I still don't own a 4k tv or computer monitor. So I hear what you are saying with home sound systems. It may be a high end thing with people that have theater rooms wanting an Atmos system at home.
To be honest we can always hear a bass player on a speaker phone if the mix is done right. Just wont be vibrating the whole body like in a concert 🤣
Right, I asked about 50 of mine and my wife's friends if they knew about Atoms or cared if they had it. Most of them looked at me like I had 10 heads. The few that did know about Atmos didn't care. Not ONE person was like, ohh ya, Atmos is awesome, I'm so happy it's included in everything now! It's just another feature on technology they don't even care about.
Dude this is the dead end. Mixing in Atmos while nobody can't hear it properly. I think the majority of people will not gonna buy a bunch of speakers.
I agree. Most people are not going to buy a bunch of speakers, got a watch the whole video to get my point.
Facts not everyone is gonna have the money for that, the Atmos ecosystem is gonna be ridiculously expensive
People buy TV’s or Soundbars that say Atmos and that’s enough for them. Like cheap HDR+ televisions that really aren’t HDR specs.
This is a misunderstanding of Apple’s offerings. Their spatial audio feature is an algorithmic reproduction of a true 7.1.2 system. Their headphones, speakers, etc. then use beam forming and reflective surfaces to project the sound from a single source in a way that creates the sound. Ultimately this is a feature apple can sell for their music service, headphones, phones, laptops, tablets, and speakers. Shoot even Apple TV outputs in this format. Pushing Dolby as a standard sells devices. Apple is a hardware company first, services company second (Apple Music), software company third(e.g. Logic Pro X) A push for atmos hits all 3 verticals. Whether you agree people can hear it or not they’ve found a feature that drives all of their revenue streams. Something that impactful isn’t going away. To say it’s a dead end, is kind of missing the big picture.
@@brentporter9324This sounds like a huge gimmick. Beam forming from phones? Really?
I’m still skeptical, as Atmos is a proprietary format owned by Dolby. It’s not an open format for diffusion like stereo, or even the typical spatial audio approaches found in immersive computer music. I’ve been working with immersive audio for years, since long before Atmos got popular. The music that is often best suited for immersive audio is music that has been composed specifically to be immersive. As a result, a lot of work goes into determining how to present immersive pieces in each performance space. Different compositions will use completely different spatialization techniques, from vector base amplitude panning (VBAP), distance-based amplitude panning (DBAP), wave field synthesis (WFS), higher-order ambisonics (HOA), etc. Getting the mixes to translate from space to space has always been a constantly-evolving challenge and has been the topic of many research papers. Some of these approaches (like WFS) can’t be faked by whatever speakers just happen to be available.
If it’s time for spatial audio to be adopted by the masses, I wonder if Atmos is the best option. It seems Atmos is limited to doing something similar to layer-based amplitude panning (LBAP), but it’s further limited in its scalability/adoptability by its proprietary nature, as well as its current watered-down implementations in Logic, etc. (possibly due to time constraints brought about by Dolby’s aggressive push for widespread implementation)… Especially when compared to IRCAM’s Spat, which gives users access to myriad panning algorithms, as well as advanced multichannel reverb, acoustics manipulation, OSC control for each parameter, and much more. Spat can also handle live performances very well… Not sure about live mixing with Atmos, nor its adoption by the typical venues that top-40 artists with Atmos mixes perform in. As a fan of immersive audio, I’m skeptically optimistic, and interested to see where this goes, but I’m nowhere close to being all-in on it.
Yeap...
STEREO, or CDs or Streaming are actual things....Atmos....Sony CD...Amazon Music are branded subfroups...
is spat capable of making 360 degree spatial audio in headphones? ive only recently been learning about spacial audio so i'm not very familiar with the options, but atmos seemed like the only tool that was capable of making things sound like they are behind you or above you.
Sounds like the big corporations are just trying to turn back the clock so they can monopolize everything once again. Right now, commercial studios are a dying breed and reliance on big publishers is nowhere what it used to be. With this type of move, it appears the industry wants to force the artists to rely on the commercial studios once again. If that is the case, they haven't thought it through as the technology will eventually catch up to put the music back in the artists' hands.
Yep. It's just a other form of gate-keeping.
100% But what's funny, is the pro audio companies that realized there are more bedroom mixers than commercial studio's, means there's more money to be made and more plugins to sell that way. Look at UAD, they just did this with their entire business plan restructure. If their intention is to price us out, it's a fools errand, the pro audio industry has already incorporated the bedroom producer and the money will win out. Technology will bury Atmos.
@@LennonStephens I totally agree.
Here’s the problem with Atmos / Spacial Audio.
It’s great if you’re in a proper room but, overwhelmingly most are listening to this through ‘spatial audio’ on some kind of headphone which is frankly, terrible, even most home theatre systems are set up in poor rooms with inconsistent speakers and not proper calibration. Stereo is hard enough in terms of translation and with Atmos in the real world, you have less control over what the end user experience will be than ever. Not to mention it’s very difficult for Spatial mixes to be glued, especially in pop music. Great when you’re sitting in a studio, usually bad or pretty bad in the real world. For this reason I find the push to Atmos for music quite depressing. If you really love music folks, especially on headphone, listen to the stereo mix.
Exactly my sentiments as well. Put simply it’s obviously an audiophile end user product and costly. Therefore most people aren’t going to be receiving an Atmos mix to their ears. They’re going to hear a “stereofied” Atmos mix. That’sa fact.
So obviously the question is simply this:
What does an Atmos mix sound like in stereo. I drive a 2012 Ford Fusion SEL with a ten speaker premium sound system. It’s a Sony so it’so so but it’s decent. Am I gonna go buy a seventy thousand dollar vehicle so I can have Atmos in my car? Duh! HELL no. Same goes for home stereos.
I’m sure it sounds awesome. My response is basically so what! Why do we need it?
In my opinion we don’t. Like Colt said…. It’s hard enough to get a stereo mix to translate for the love of GOD!
Sorry but I think the only reason we “need” it is because big business is joining forces and making us “need” it.
Yep, hopefully the "stereo fold down" is actually smart and can do the translation properly. I'd personally rather the industry as a whole finally support 24 bit uncompressed audio but hey, maybe 20 years is too soon.
I've heard some "Good" Atmos mixes, sounded fun, went back to stereo and carried on. Why? Because stereo sounds fine. Atmos Is being pushed but the general public will be forced into it.
I don't agree between the Surround sound argument. My last car had Dolby Surround sound built in. My new one doesn't. I still think in 7 years, we will have a load of old Atmos devices.
Unless they get stereo to do proper good surround sound, which they have not yet it will flop. I think they should have made sure that tech was soundproof first. It is just surround sound version 22 no matter how many pretend, its just advanced Binaural tricks, unless you use a great multispeaker setup.
Stereo works so well. Not worth comparing to CD's. CD's were popular for more than just their sound, tapes would tangle up and degrade, CD's could be copied with no loss. This is just an add on Gimmick..... I might be wrong, but the consumer has to want this, I don't know if they do.
One every one is force to do Atmos it will make it better for every one. Every artist will want to compete in it
Agreed. The same sound source coming from 2 different speakers is challenging enough. Enough speakers set up for Atmos in a space, may sound “good”, but will never sound natural for music. A sort of 360° array with multiple drivers, placed front and center of the listening area, will produce better results, but who lives in an anechoic chamber 😂
You make a lot of great points and your insight on the topic is much appreciated. But let's bring this back to reality for a second: calling the UA Apollo x16 affordable is mind-boggling. The bedroom producer and smaller independents are working on a pair of used JBL LSR305s and a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface - retail value $600. Owning an Apollo Twin at $1000 is an aspiration. To get into Atmos with an x16, 11 JBL LSR305s and a JBL sub puts the system at $6000 before cables, fittings and accessories. Chuck in Sonarworks as well and we are looking at over $7000 total, which is not at all affordable to anyone coming up - not in the US, and certainly not in the developing world.
Even the absolute cheapest jerry-rigged atmos system I've conjured comes in at $3000, and one's ability to mix accurately with that setup is questionable. I've been super excited about atmos and like you have experienced incredible mix rooms fitted with a PMC 9.1.6 system and Metric Halo controller. I want a system so badly, and I want all my artists to succeed and continue to produce world-class records. Apple Music has been a big part of this for the reasons you've mentioned, and they're playlisting has been one of the most important points to our bottom line. But this is probably the first time in history that the cost of recording and having the gatekeepers accept your music has 10x overnight. You make the parallels to the move to stereo, but a stereo tape machine and a 2nd speaker were commonplace technology by the time lower budget studios were forced to produce their music in the format. Apple is moving too quickly on this and is going to single-handedly deal a deathly blow to upcoming and unsigned artists without the budget to pay for atmos mixing.
Yeah this explains my situation so well. I hate when industry people call a £1,000 interface affordable. Mate I have a computer and speakers to buy still.
exactly!
You can get an Evo 16 for 500.00. For outs, you'll still need an AD/DA. But considering that such a system that costs today around $1,500 would have cost $15,000 ten years ago?
No one is forcing Atmos on us. It's an option.
Let's grow up a little. This type of FUD doesn't serve anyone's purpose other than clicks and unfounded rage.
@@jklappenbach Please share your $1500 7.1.4 system spec with the community so that we can all learn then. DA has been relatively affordable for a long time, so that generally not the cost barrier - it’s always going to be monitors. I’d be delighted to be shown that Atmos mixing in speakers is affordable today and going to be even more affordable going forward.
Look friend, the truth of the matter is that the economics of the industry are such that we have to abide by what is going to make the biggest impact to our ever-dwindling bottom lines. And whilst I agree that Atmos isn’t ready to (or even likely to) be a truly game-changing consumer format, there is truth to the fact that Apple Music is beginning to prioritize releases with Atmos mixes for playlist consideration. That alone is a significant impact to our bottom lines from recorded music, and the broader marketability of upcoming artists.
I am a tech-forward person, a software engineer, and generally an early adopter, so this isn’t a case of fear and disinformation. This is genuine concern for the budget-constrained artists already getting the short end of the industry stick. Any more disproportionally unfair barriers to visibility, marketability and profitability IS going to have a significant impact on the future of the industry.
My problem isn’t that they’re pulling us to make immersive content - I’m actually excited for it. I love hearing music in Atmos on speakers. My concern is that delivering world-class Atmos mixes is prohibitively expensive, and binaural mixing is unlikely to bridge that gap any time soon, if ever. My issue is the rush to make decisions that will widen the gap until technology can catch up. Forcing artists to either forgo potential revenue and exposure, or deliver a substandard experience in Atmos does not seem like a healthy path forward.
Technology will catch up, no doubt. More affordable conversion and monitor control is undoubtedly on the way. But entry-level monitors that do the exact same thing as they’ve done for years, just as well as they have always done (e.g Yamaha HS5, Adam T5V) but cheap enough to put 12 speakers around you in a similar budget? I wouldn’t bet on any manufacturer being willing to give up that much margin. And if we do move forward and increase speaker demand 6-fold, how fast will we change the supply-side dynamics of both the new and used markets?
Let me stop beating a dead horse, suffice to say we need to move progressively with this, especially when it comes to anything that impacts developing artists’ revenues and visibility, that’s all.
@@tumi6ocdn If you turn the sarcasm knob a few decibels, you'd see that I'm only pointing out that it's not very expensive to get a kick-ass 5.1 sound system in your home.
Atmos might not be the best, most ideal format for spatial audio, but it's been better than all the other competitors. And it looks like it's here to stay.
You basically ignored my other points, so we'll leave it at that.
All this hysteria over Atmos is just click bait. I hope you've managed to profit from it.
As producers we can’t let one company dictate things like this . Especially when we know that there’s nothing wrong with stereo and mono compatibility is still required. Also , actually the reason why all the youtube producers like this is because it’s a nice point of differentiation from the little guys ..
@@CraigScottFrost haha yea it’s analog gear 2.0. I myself have 4-5 boxes that just sitting collecting dust . Even if I use them it’s just on the mix bus or for mastering but I can easily replicate my chain with plugins. But it’s a great marketing tool . Lol . Atmos is not that hard , in 2-3 years we can get 14-15 speakers for 200 dollars each and get a full speaker system for 3000 dollars and get an interface/converter for 1k and get into atmos . Bt I think it’s high time the audio community accepts the fact that atmos doesn’t sound better it’s just a marketing ploy . I’m ok with that .
It needs a real format..Atmos is a brand .. we need something like stereo, that can do this, but is a technical term and no one owns it
Platforms can set whatever standard they want. Listeners will go where they need to to find the music they like. So, a few big artists stick with stereo, and these platforms will quickly implode on their own.
Yep, I don’t use Apple Music anyway 😂
Hoping this prophecy will come true.
Free markets always win over "central economic planning"...this drama plays out over and over on earth....the tech has to benefit the listeners! Not vice versa
Also worth mentioning, country music fans largely use Apple Music, and fans of pop and hip hop generally lean Spotify. I don't know why this is but thats what people who work at Apple told me. Im not familiar with Colt's work but since he looks like he may hunt ducks I am gonna say might be a country dude and more incentivized to make Atmos content for his clients. When I asked A+Rs I know about the playlist thing, they both said they're actually less stringent on Atmos deliverables now to get play listed then they were at the outset of this in 2021. Who knows.
I understand Colt's point of view and excitement, but Atmos is out of touch with most people - musicians, producers and listeners alike. Here in Brazil, adapting a "conventional" studio to an appropriate Atmos setup would be exorbitant! I prefer to continue with the freedom to make music with what we have and how we can. DIY or be swallowed up by the industry.
Big point you didn't hit on is that stereo isn't owned by anyone. No one owes a licensing fee to include stereo functionality on anything. Atmos most certainly does have a licensing fee
Colt, pethaps I was one of those you might think had a more reactive opinion. I have been following the development of Atmos, but honestly I regard it as a product that nobody asked for, that nobody needs. It’s not responding to market demand, it’s manufactured to create a market that doesn’t exist and I’m cynical about the enthusiasm and somewhat hyperbolic drive to push studios and consumers into spending shed loads of money. I feel that it would be easy to get caught up in in the hype, but this time…I want consumers to demand something more imaginative than this, or simply stop playing this game of superfluous indulgence. As I said last time, honestly if this is the future then I am out. I would be too disappointed that this was all we could come up with now, just more crap to buy, install, upgrade, update, change etc.
You can say as much as you like that this is the future but I consider the very concept of future in this regard as a line many will consider a zenith or an actual philosophical discussion on what is actual progress. Atmos reeks of desperation in an industry lacking any genuinely original ideas, its just a way to resell Dark Side of The Moon and every other mid century prog rock band for yet another easy buck.
100% correct take
I asked about 50 people about Atmos. Not one of them cared. Most of them had no idea what I was talking about. The few that did said something like, oh ya, I saw my TV had it but I didn't really care. The amount of people that actually care is slim to none.
@@matt_nyc_audioengineeryep. Consumers won’t ever care about ATMOS. Why it’s being forced upon creators. That’s Apple’s only move with it. Use their massive market share to force something no one wants. And creators, again, are who have to pay for this corporate nonsense
A very valid question: are there any customers asking for this? My answer is that none is asking for Atmos but as a vast majority is listening via headphones maybe something more "live" sounding representation of the listeners music is sought after? Binaural is maybe the answer in some way. But then binaural in it self is not enough to push the industry to make the jump. But binaural as a piece of a larger jigsaw, then maybe... But it is sort of scary to think that one company owns the music format. As if EMI owned stereo. Or AOL owned mp3.
I can't wait til the day when Focusrite releases a 12 channel sound card (no Scarlett 18i20 is not the answer as you need ADAT additional and you still have no integrated monitor controller). Just keep 2 inputs and add 2 outputs and integrate Sonarworks and call it a day! And by having only 12 outputs Apple will accept the sound card for Atmos and we can get rid of the Blackhole loopback nonsense. Not sure if Windows users be happy though....
@@zootook3422 At the end of the day until Atmos can be enjoyed properly by the end user it's never going to become the standard. As of this moment people need to invest in a multi speaker setup for their house to listen to atmos properly. Headphones just don't the same thing. I have had 1 client ask since all this nonsense started. I mix close to 200 projects a year and only 1 asked. I'm not worried about it yet. When and if the time comes, I'll do what I have to do but as of now. I could care less about Atmos. 🙂
Ok...if streaming has dropped artist income so much, why do we keep jumping onboard with what the "industry" wants, if they keep screwing the artist?
I love Atmos...I don't love how artists can't make money on the industry platforms unless they "comply". More of the same BS that will cost artists in the end.
Yep, and then you have people (who are also victims losing money to these schemes) telling those who won’t comply that they’re being “left behind.” When are we as a society going to accept that not all technological movements are positive or forward thinking, and that some are worth questioning and rejecting for solutions that benefit people, not companies?
@@ggeessttaalltt the “Atmos only to get streams” could be a benefit. Don’t release your stuff for streaming. Release it on CD or vinyl or some other medium that doesn’t require Atmos and give people something tangible like we use to have. My question, which I’m reluctant to ask because I like Colt’s channel and I think he’s talented is…is forcing Atmos the best thing for everyone later down the road, or is it about “look at me and what I can do” now?
@@robfulco4739 true, I’ve been thinking for a minute more independent artists should treat streaming like radio and only release singles on it, meanwhile keeping full albums on platforms where they actually make money like bandcamp. honestly though, that would probably just kill the idea of an “album” even more. it’s already on life support.
I'll happily mix in Atmos if I can do it in headphones. I'm not shelling out money for a squillion more studio monitors, hard pass.
🤣 a "squillion" ... I hear you lol. Still paying off the two that I have!
I'll at least start that way. Apparently you can use headphones binaurally using settings within the Dolby Renderer. So we would at least get our foot in the door for $299 for the plug-in. I'm gonna go for it from that trajectory and build my speakers out 5.1, then 5.1.4 then 7.1.4 (theoretically) but only because I think it would be great for my kind of music I'm doing these days.
stereo is the only thing I care about, I only have 2 ears
360RA. You’re welcome. You can mix in headphones
Squillion = A million converted into squid years. (Commonly used to describe overpriced audio products by producers.)
TL:DR Music producer man who gets more money out of making atmos mixes rationalizes everything to himself in video
My thoughts:
1 - No one in consumer land cares about the listening quality. They care about convenience. That's why 20 years ago, you bought a higher fidelity CD and listened to it on a proper amp and speakers. People listen to lossy encoded music, or worse yet, the RUclips music video, through crappy laptop and phone speakers or earbuds now.
2 - Just because an industry is forcing something on you, doesn't make it right, even if it becomes the future. See streaming.
3 - Unless people install 10 speaker systems in their home and throw out all other living conditions of the room they're in, they're not going to be hearing Atmos correctly, just like they didn't with surround sound. They'll get a software faked render on a stereo or binaural playback system, or else an unbalanced / skewed version of it.
4 - People ain't listening to music on Bluetooth speakers if they're serious, and those systems already suck just trying to reproduce stereo.
5 - Whilst I suspect that it will become widespread, it's going to end a lot of careers upfront in an industry that's already soon to be decimated by AI.
I'm sure there's more, but Counter Strike 2 just got announced and I have my priorities 😅
AI will eventually produce ATMOS music in one click.....
Did you get in the CS2 beta? I'm just sitting here waiting for my turn...
CS2?! No way! Atmos my butt.
@@imhaydenmelrose No ☹️ They're letting the big streamers in first though ofc
Agree with everything except AI decimating the industry. Just like with photography and art, people tend to cherry pick the best examples of AI art. But most of it is crap and even a lot of the good ones have that distinctive AI look, which will eventually get boring and uninspiring. Music is even harder for AI, so I wouldn't worry about it. Besides, we're already competing with endless amounts of human made royalty free music.
I’m old enough to remember the late ‘60’s, early ‘70’s quadraphonic ‘future’. It sounded great but there were too few recordings in quad and fewer yet people with the equipment to listen to it. With the younger generation basically being and earbud generation, can it matter?
The reason that early stereo recordings (e.g. The Beatles) had hard panned instruments/vocals is that they were mixing using 4 track masters. That did not leave them with a lot of options for panning.
Nope. It's because the mixing desks that were mixing those multi-tracks to stereo used switched panning rather than the modern "pan pot" we are used to. You could only select "L", "R" or "L+R". There was no in between.
@@markjiggens3051 Not sure about that. I believe the REDD consoles they used at Abbey Road had panning capabilities as they were used at least up to Sgt Pepper.
@@markjiggens3051 I found this on "Ultimate Classic Rock" : "The earliest Beatles sessions were recorded the same way, with studio performances blended onto a single track in order to take advantage of the limited tape space provided back then. On George Harrison's "Taxman," for instance, "the guitar, the bass and drums are all on one track," Martin noted. "That's why the record is basically on the left-hand side, and then there’s a shaker on the right-hand side of the center."
Also when the Beatles or other bands were panning drums on the left and bass on the right was because when the music was played on the radio and on stereos the music came out of the speakers as Mono. Stereo was invented in early 1930's by Alan Blumlein at EMI Studio (Abbey Road) but the stereo recording didn't become commonplace in Popular music until the late 1960's.
@@SongwriterPlayer AM radio was king back then. That did not change until the mid to late 70s.
I'm looking forward to your explanation video in seven years on why Atmos failed :)
one year.
Yes, between 2 and 5 years, 7 is too much.
Why is it going to fail you think?
@@christhomason7488 Well, I'm not the OP, but the reason is: no consumer will ever put 9 speakers in their living room and stay religiously at the center to have the ATMOS experience?
And since they definitely won't do this, some day in the next 5 or so years they will realise that with all those sound bars that reflect on your walls and ceilings it doesn't sound any better than the original stereo. And music mixed for stereo sounds the same under these conditions.
The industry is trying to get back what it lost the last two decades. Desperate attempt indeed, but it won't matter.
@@dirtyharry1881 very true 👍 👌
Someone needs to start a new streaming service so us lowlife mixer/producer/song writers can survive
Stereo has been around for the consumer since 1881 and to this day people are still listening in mono, experiencing new dimensions in sound is great for sure but I don't think ATMOS is the future, we'll see how supply and demand will determine the way forward but personally this technology does not stop giving me the same vibes as 3D TV lmao
It has been shown time and time again that playlisting doesn't lead to new fans as there is no way to access the data. So you can't interact with the listener and bring them into your ecosystem and convert them into a lifelong fan. It's a myth that getting on a curated playlist is the key to success, building a loyal fanbase is the key to success. 95% of the world will never be able to afford Atmos and shouldn't worry about it anyway as it's just another first world problem that's not even really a problem.
Damn the man. This isn't the same thing as adopting streaming, which just requires you to change the way you mix and master with the tools you already own.
It's a completely different thing when it requires you to scrap the equipment you've invested in and install a completely new rig just so your songs can get put onto the streaming service.
Sure, the switch from mono to stereo recordings took a while, but it wasn't something that was forced onto everyone by a company trying to turn a profit. It caught on because it became affordable and attainable for working class people as a way to listen to music.
Dolby Atmos may be cool. It may be the future. It may be the best thing since sliced bread and all that, but you hit the nail on the head when you said that you don't think independent producers and artists are anywhere in Apple Music's thought process when they made this decision, nor would they be concerned at all about how it would impact the little guys.
That's precisely my problem with all of it, and why I, respectfully, will continue to be in my corner saying, "Damn the man."
You must be in Abelton. Apparently they’re the only one that doesn’t have it but the decision will force them to give it on the next update. Honestly I think it’s going to be more like how we had Cassette tapes and CDs. Most little people can’t afford a Dolby Atmos system but once it’s in every home there will no longer be music being mixed in stereo.
FACT WE ONLY HAVE TWO EARS and not ONE THING this guy or apple or Spotify can do is going to change that FACT
@@RAILWAY_FILMS We only have two ears, but our brains do not process sound as 2 discrete channels of audio.
@@tronam since leaving this comment I rubbed two fingers and moved it around my head changing the height etc with my eyes closed and I could definitely hear the location and even feel it in some cases.
@@RAILWAY_FILMS DO YOU MEAN THAT WITH THESE SAME TWO (2) EARS YOU CAN ALSO FEEL 3D SPACE? AMAZING!
Do you think that companies that want to sell you 9++ speakers for these two ears are lying to you? WHY WOULD THEY EVER DO THAT??
I am definitely not a fan of this. Seems really unnecessary. It reminds me of the 5.1 mixing thing from the early 2000s. It was kind of neat. A fun gimmick if you have the perfect setup but that's it really. Never caught on. I see that Apple is trying to force this on people and the streaming situation makes it easier to do that, but if it doesn't sound better on headphones/stereo the way most people are listening (and I'm not impressed by what I've heard, just sounds gimmicky to me) then it just seems really crazy to me. Why make a mix for the 1% listening on some movie TV setup with surround speakers? I just don't buy that the stereo folddowns will sound better than a mix actually made for stereo.
I mostly listen to music on Spotify but I've checked out Apple Music/Amazon just to see what the fuss about Atmos was, still mostly on Spotify. To me definitely not worth moving platforms for. And I hope Spotify stays with stereo mixes.
Looking around you see many people complaining about atmos on Apple Music forums etc.
Also pretty shady/scummy that it isn't a press release and all people you talked to have this insider information
The 2 main problems with atmos:
1. It is perfect for a captive audience like film but music = activity. When I'm cooking dinner listening to music, I'm not in the sweet spot and the emersive sound bubble sounds horrible from a distance. Insert your activity to this scenario.
2. The folddown. We spend hours carving out a stereo mix paying a ridiculous amount attention on our next detail oriented move to make everything fit. When you mix in an emersive space, you have all the room in the world and then the fold down is gonna magically push everything to the back wall and make it all work? Hmm..
I can see doing the stereo mix first and bring rearward everything you want in the emersive 3d space, without changing the left right or tonal properties....what fun would that be...ugh
I can see doing 2 mixes as a solution because it's 2 different audiences. I would not feel creative or comfortable letting dolby do my stereo mix.
Not all music should even be in atmos.. the industry has gotten outa hand and truthfully we should be more focused on how the machine will have little say in anything in the next 10 years or less.
I absolute hate that this is being forced on us.
Fully agree - this seems like just another way for the industry to milk more money from folks.
It's Apple, that's their entire business and marketing strategy. Why do you think Microsoft still runs all your software from 1995 and leaves it up to the owner if they want to upgrade/chane model yet Apple you 'have' to upgrade/buy the new model just to remain up to date.
its super lame. if nobody pays for it, it will die.. start buying vinyl records again.. I AM !
Get used to it. There’s a lot more of it coming.
It’s not forced. Just turn it off.
As an engineer, I'll do what I need to to make a living. This may not include Atmos. As a listener, I don't sit in front of speakers, so mono is enough for me.
Today's average music listener does not care enough about the actual quality of the music they listen to, to ever go ten times farther and buy an actual atmos listening system. If a mixer or producer wants to jump all the way in, go for it. It just means that this is where many of us part ways with following those producers. The future of music should not be technology, it should be better songs in my opinion as an amateur "engineer" and pro music lover my whole life.
Yes! Listeners care about good songs. i'll happily listen to scratchy popping mono classics over a soul-less surround-sound baby.
Can't help but think about the 2008 fire at Universal Music where the master tapes of recordings by Nirvana, Elton John, Beck, etc. were lost. If Apple, going forward, would only play remixes in Atmos, some famous artist's recordings would be SOL. Would that mean they would pull famous artists from curated playlists? Food for thought...
This happened with 5.1 DVDs same story with stereo fold down. It really is just a bunch of delays when it comes to the fold downs. I did over 100 live DVD and TV broadcasts in 5.1 - used a custom analog summing system built for me by Paul Wolff. He clued me in on this move a couple years ago.
Dang dawg I was just starting get stereo mixes figured out lol
This is the same thing as when they tried pushing 5.1 surround. Yes it sounds cool, but the average consumer doesn’t care. People listen to music in cars, headphones, or on a tiny portable speaker. People who listen to music in a dedicated location in a home usually are listening to vinyl. Atmos is for movies. Which is where it makes sense.
So...in an era where Gen Z runs around listening to award winning mixes pumping out of a tinny mono speaker on their phone...we have to do even MORE complex mixing to appease the .05% of the people that will actually listen to music on a good system :)
That being said ... how in the heck does one MASTER music in Atmos? It's enough of a mysterious magical art with only 2 channels.
For the home studio artist - What about doing a stereo mix using your analogue mastering chain, sending that to vinyl as a vinyl-only special stereo mix, then hire a dolby atmos studio to put tracks and stems into atmos. That way the vinyl will be a unique product and maybe sell better
I have a friend who owns the first Atmos studio on the west coast. I went to listen when it first went in in 2019. He was telling me then that the industry was going to make this happen. That literally every mix on every major platform was going to be Atmos. This was set in stone a long time ago and all of the corporate forces that matter are invested in making it happen. Like it or not this is the way forward. I personally don't like it but it is what it is.
The upside is that Atmos mixes sound amazing and will be an absolute treat for those of us who care about sound. I think making ambient and downtempo music in Atmos will be crazy! Also, imagine smal intimate Atmos live shows at sub2K venues. Then imagine those as live streams that feel like you're there because the sound is most of what will do it. Imagine VR with Atmos concert sales!!!!
Doesn't grip me. Stereo is full and Atmos means tuning your ears to different sounds far and near. Nice idea but is it practical. No. I don't think people will take to it and the customer is always right. It won't stick!
How are you supposed to mix a live Atmos show? There are reasons why live shows aren’t mixed as wide as studio mixes.
It's all going to come down to consumer demand. When it comes to music, I'm not so sure consumers care about technology... The melody is king, and that will never change. I don't think Atmos will make the difference between a song being a hit or not being a hit. The playlist gatekeeping is B.S. Ultimately, I think services like Spotify will prioritize hits over file format.
In seven years, not even all movie theaters will be equipped in Atmos, at least not in my country, but even in the US I think we're quite far from that happening. The fact that this is not the case already, despite the other fact that this technology has been around for quite a long time should tell us something about it's true possibility to replace stereo workflow as a whole. As for stereo listening, 99% of the 2/3% (myself included) of streaming consumers that have access to the format thru Apple, Amazon & Tidal are still experiencing "Atmos" in stereo thru a binaural filter.
I've been mixing records in Atmos for a year now, both translating my own mixes and some from other mixers, about 60 songs as of now, so one could say I have some experience in the format considering it's only recent introduction to consumer music. I agree with everything you say about the actual format, it is awesome, smart and adaptable, it blew me away at first. Still love it, but like everything in life, it's not perfect, at least not yet...
For experience listeners like myself, even though I enjoy binaural (still need a moment to adapt every time), now that I'm use to it I don't even hear the space in headphones anymore, I just hear EQ and reverb... You'll get there Colt haha. So that's where it kinda breaks the chain imho. The speaker mixes don't translate effortlessly or even efficiently to Dolby binaural, and have yet another strongly different feel in "Spatial Audio" which you can't even monitor natively if you're using the "official" Apple computer/Dolby Renderer/Pro Tools configuration, it's the far west still....
Also, I need to trick my system using an audio bridge from Apple Music -> Pro Tools -> Dolby Renderer to be able to properly listen to mixes in 7.1.4 on my system, quite the hassle.
I do find the 2.0 and 5.1 fold downs to be really good and if the loudness war didn't become a way of life, I guess in the "normalized" world you might be right. But for some (most) music, even if I believe -18 is the right logical/technical choice, that target is a bit low when just talking Atmos to Stereo translation,. Even if the fold down makes the volume rise a little bit, a well packed stereo mix with a modern (but not abusively distorted) level, is still gonna be closer to my intentions in stereo than a fold down from an object base mix. I could continue (and talk with great detail) about all the bad or at least pointless atmos mixes out there, even from MAJOR artists, but I'm gonna stop here lol, and say that my MacBookPro M1 has 4 speakers and can trick me to the Atmos space a little better than binaural, which I'm AMAZED by and enjoy listening to a lot, but frankly can't beat my speaker setup. I still share some of the same enthusiasm as you Colt and wish you a great deal of pleasure (and pain) in the beginning of your Atmos journey. Cheers from Paris
Guy said ‘there’s no formal press release’. They also said 2012 was gonna be the end of the world.
Well this just sucks! After investing in my equipment over that last few years now another kick in the nuts!
My unwanted opinion: atmos is a marketing push at best, for music. Yes, atmos is a definite real thing and does sound amazing, has been in theatres and home theatres for a time now. For music, until it can be ACCURATELY reproduced in headphones, no one will hear it as intended, key phrase “AS INTENDED”.
I was closing out an atmos mix with a major label/artist and at the end the a/r guy was like “what do you think?” My reply was simply “I love hearing the guitar coming from behind, over my head and down by the left speaker, but this is the first and last time I will hear that, and no one else will even know it’s happening”
Unless people start installing “home music listening theatres” that are decked out, OR headphones can reproduce, its a non issue.
Cars are an easier place to use and implement atmos since most of those are inherently already a multi-speaker setup.
Last thought, just because it is atmos certified, doesn’t mean you’re hearing atmos…
Now, people believing it’s cool is a whole other issue that will sell plenty of peripherals. I bet you could take a stereo mix and put it up on Apple Music in the spatial file extension, no one would know and think they’re hearing some amazing new thing
I think it is just done by Apple to sell more AirPods as only with them you get the full experience. No thank you.
@@mudi2000a I dont even think this is the case as far as AirPods having the full experience. people just think they are.i went today and listened to the atmos mix I was referring to in my previous comments with my AirPods Pro 2 and made sure it had the correct Atmos settings. it was NOTHING like it was in the control room with the actual Atmos system that we were mixing on. def none of the front to back/overhead stuff was there at all
The problem with ATMOS is simpler for us. Any time a company singlehandigly crate and control something, it becomes too expensive to the conumer to accepted.
I can see this creating a problem for a lot home recording studios. Luckily, I just do tracking and not so much mixing.
It should leave a new world open for recording methods
As long as Spotify doesn't follow suit and block the playlists then it'll be fine, we'll all just release on Spotify and ignore Apple 😅
Well Apple will gain user by marketing Atmos..
@@GG-zv9ku Doubt it
Agree - Apple Music's interface is awful anyway. I hardly ever listen to anything on Apple anymore - everything is Spotify.
@@GG-zv9ku And they will lose much more market share from the millions of people that want to hear all the music that isn't available in Atmos as the years go by.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop Im getting kind of exited too. Creatively this is great for everyone.
Consumer here, for music I'm back to mono. I have multiple Naim Cubev2's in the house using AirPlay. Each is set to a comfortable volume level. Regardless of where you are you get a comfortable volume, great sound and no moving between right and left channels. I don't have to layout my furniture to accomodate speakers. I no longer need a virtual stage. Mono is the future for music only. Atmos is fine for movies, but even then, the movies I watch - not Marvel or other special effects driven stuff - 2.1 with a center channel works great.
My questions with atmos is what will happen with bus processing, mix bus processing, and mastering, especially in the analog domain...
“Nobody’s paying me”
“Sweetwater asked me to get more eyeballs on their Atmos rooms to get into the class”
😒 bartering is a form of payment.
Until there exits as many people with surround sound, as people has stereo today. UNTIL THEN. I'm gonna stick to producing in Stereo. I produce an abstract genre of music, which doesn't get on official playlists anyway. Only my listeners private playlists. And i'm good with that 🙂
Stereo ain't broke. Don't fix it. Some things should just be left alone. I just put a sound system in My classic car and now its gonna sound like crap. Forcing this on people is wrong.
As far as I am aware, we are never going to have more than 2 ears...I've no idea why this madness is ensuing...
Nice to meet you, Colt. I’m a studio owner in Japan also considering for 7.1.4 or even 9.1.4 system. I’d love to hear your opinions on room correction with Atmos setup.
uneducated question. can you just release a stereo recording but in atmos format? or just run a stereo recording through a converter that makes it into an atmos format file?
So after your video yesterday I put on my headphones and switched on the Atmos on my Cubase pro and watch 4 hours on puremix round table with Andrew Sheps . And took a mixed I just did in stereo and made it atmos. It was super easy to setup a sound stage of players with the track. I did a few automation moves and exported. I listen to the stereo fold down binaural version. Really translated well. It didn't have the impact a mastered stereo mix did. It was way lower in volume. But it sounded really good. So I get what your saying, but I don't think you will get away with doing 1 mix. The 2 channel stereo version really was not good enough to be a final 2 track mix. That 2 track fold down version mix could not compete In a club or streaming.
The other problems was almost none of my master plug-ins will work in atmos mastering. So all I could put on it was a compressor and limiter and with -18 lufs being the requirement to deliver atoms and the LFE problem with consumer system playback...this all feels like a step backwards to me. There is a quality I love about this with headroom and dynamics, but most consumers will just play it out of their phones speaker or Bluetooth crappy home speaker. And that's where it will fall short. It's could be an audio file guy dream, but even those guys are going to be pissed they have to spend another 20k to get Atmos.
I discovered one interesting thing which could make it work for the masses. For fun I forced the binaural out of my multimedia test speaks and it sound really awesome. I was able to do this off the playback off Cubase, problem is no normal Atmos system could do this. But if they allow any 2 track system to have a choice between Binaural and 2 track fold down... I would choice Binaural every time. This could be the way that it could be the next big thing. I could still feel a sense of space and dynamics in an Atmos mix on a $20 multimedia speaker. If there was a way on Atmos playback system to send binaural to two stereo speaker regardless that its made for headphone really sounded better than 2 track fold down.
Forcing engineers and mixers to buy an expensive plug in and surround system is very top down product placement by elitist tech industry snobs and isnt currently in demand by consumers.I dont like it!
Connection with music is emotional, not spatial. Cheers!
Hey Colt, I don’t think you get paid from nobody! I think consumers just don’t need atmos, like they didn’t need surround, or quad audio.
Glad you are really into this. I hope your enthusiasm is correct and its great you want to be one of the first - I am subtly convinced. Plenty of questions, I think you should arrange something to answer questions.
Please could you try to answer a few questions please as I am wondering a few things.
1. What makes a device "Atmos"? If I can mix on a pair of headphones, whats the difference. Is it just that the decoder exists on the device?
2. Will this make mixing a lot easier and in what way?
3. Will the consumer feel the need or want for this experience? Some people like the music in the corner of the room. Us audiophiles love the idea of Atmos of course. Is it a pipedream that mono speaker lister will care? It could backfire and create a subdivision in the industry?
4. Is the pressure from companies like Apple just a trick to try to regain control of the industry? I worry this is where it might backfire.
5. Better is subjective. Some genres have be potentially been shaped by the art of squeezing stuff into stereo. Will it be able to live alongside this?
6. Any examples you have heard of releases that we can listen to at home?
7. Lastly can you convert stereo speakers to Atmos for those who wish to try to get our stereo setups kinda working in Atmos?
Imagine being able to afford 1 rig only and instead of a pair of 3 way monitors and moderate acoustic treatment you instead get 5+ 5 inch monitors in 1 sub and have next to nothing left over for the room treatment "it's the future!"
So the TLDR that I took away from this for the small guys is this - Mix in Atmos, but still mix, edit and adjust in your stereo components. No need to apply the 3D Objects or panning automation for the extra 7 or 9 bed channels. I plan on getting used to the extra steps for making sure projects are in atmos but I'm not going out to buy a new interface or to go by 9 more Focal speakers and a 2nd sub. I'm still learning on the 2.1 space so there will just be a few more plugins in my master bus to handle things. Quick google search shows that the target LUFS for Atmos is -18 vs the normal -12 to 14 in stereo (at least I think thats what it is in stereo - like I said, still learning)
I'm not against change in any way. But the only reason they are forcing it has to do with business. Sure, make it an option, but I have to agree with your assessment that they really don't care about the things that will take place in small studios everywhere. You lost money yourself having to send mixes off to get done in Atmos. I appreciate the heads up and the advice man, but Apple are careless greedy effs in my book.
If you could post an example of an atmos fold down that sounds better than the stereo mix I would LOVE to hear that! Thank you!
They can't do it.
Yeah stereo masters or it never happened. 😂
Shortcut: 1. mixing stereo, 2. (headphones) rough panning in atmos, 3. get your atmos badge on apple)
EVERYONE QUICK GRAB YOUR ATMOS!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 dude serious??
When I was a small boy, mono reproduction was prevalent. Next stereo which I’ve used most of my life. Next leap is Atmos. I embrace such innovation and just bought a Sonos system to deliver Atmos. Very glad I did. Move with the times.
I've been looking at going with Atmos for awhile now. My biggest concern has been the monitoring in a small home studio room. The monitor speakers I'm going to go with are the IK iLoud MTM. Comparing those to even the Kali speakers they seem to be lightyears ahead of any speaker that will work for Atmos at this price point. I'm going with 7.1.4 set up. Only thing I have to find is the right sub for the system. Now the part that seems to be really lacking in all this is the monitor control system. iLound speakers take care of tuning of the speaker but you also have to time the speakers as well. It would be nice if there was an affordable monitor control system out there for this, but I guess I will have to do it manually. That sucks but oh well. Still trying to figure out the monitor control system I'm going to use.
Hope plugin developers are in front of this for us bedroom producers
My new question for YOU, is I'm well-aware how much you love mixing with hardware, especially your mixbuss chain (preamps, serpent, etc). What are you changing in that regard since mixbusses are "gone" in Atmos. Super curious! Cheers
People worry about the quality of the music on atmos, as if they care about it on stereo using the cellphone speaker to listen to their music. XD
So how long do you think it will be before we get a plugin that takes your stereo mix and converts it to ATMOS?
Yep, listening to ATMOS music on a smartphone. Makes total sense to me.
Fans of a particular artist will listen to them regardless of whether it's in Atmos or stereo. Unlike those other technologies Colt mentioned (record, tape, CD, and now streaming), streaming became the industry standard primarily because of convenience for the consumer and increased profit and manufacturing cost cutting for the industry. It's much easier to have thousands of songs at your fingertips than it is to carry hundreds or even thousands of CDs with you everywhere you go. I'm not a huge industry mixer or producer. I work mostly in the indie hip-hop space, and so far, I haven't heard anyone in my community of artists talking about Atmos mixes as a necessity. Indie/bedroom artists, or whatever term they used to describe us, will continue to put out music the best way we know how, and our fans will continue to consume it. For me, Atmos is a shoulder shrug for me. If it takes off, cool...if not, that's cool too. For now, a larger majority of projects will continue to be in stereo, as most of the music that is put out is by indie artists or small labels. In other words, stereo isn't going anywhere any time soon IMO.
In the near future I’d love to see a basic atmos mixing tutorial for Logic Pro so us independent producers can start to understand the fundamentals of mixing in atmos
It's all hear say. It's the wild wild west of audio. So there is no right way yet. I took a stage approach when I tried it. Layout like players on a stage. Then throw some fx and verbs a delays yo back like it bouncing off back walls. But the rules haven't been written yet. I suspect we will get some truly horrible mixes in the years to come until there is a standard ish idea.
Great that you're onboard with Atmos, looking forward to your journey on this! I put together my project Atmos studio 1,5 years ago to be up to date on this and I am fully on board with the concept and all aspects of it. To the people saying that this will exclude the home studio/indie artists: you can put together a basic Atmos rig for a few thousand dollars and I think for someone who is actually working with music, that should be attainable with proper budgeting and planning - and it's still early days with regards to the hardware, there's more and more products coming out and it'll get cheaper.
On the subject of it being the future and to add to the already existing consumer possibilities that have been mentioned(smart speakers, headphones, soundbars, cars etc), I think that biggest step to bring this truly to the masses is when VR/AR glasses have their "iphone moment". Sure, they are still clunky and expensive at the moment, but so were smartphones for the first 15 years. But when a company cracks the puzzle of making VR/AR devices that are intuitive, look good and add real practical value at an attainable price point, akin to how the iphone did when it launched, then I believe this will be the main work/entertainment device going forward. And immersive audio is definitely an invaluable part of the VR/AR experience. So when everybody at the consumer level becomes used to the fact that all their video conferencing, podcast-listening, app functionality etc works in a 3D audio environment, then suddenly listening to music in regular stereo format only will feel a bit stale and maybe even jarring. My money's on Apple making this breakthrough and they've been testing out different aspects of this tech in different devices: AR in ipads and iphones, Spatial audio in Apple Music, transparency and head-tracking modes in Airpods etc. All these are pieces of the puzzle that can form a completely new work/entertainment experience when put together correctly. Some form of glasses should be revealed this year, time will tell if those will be the ones to make the jump..
There should at least be a dual acceptance of audio files so we can still deliver our music too.
One more comment. Stereo fold down sounds better? I'm calling BS. The only reason the stereo fold down sounds better, is because the stereo sounds better than atmos anyway. Of course it sounds better. That shows you that atmos doesn't sound as good as stereo! Stop already. And to compare Atmos to stereo from mono is just not even. Not even. Compare it to quad. No one cared about quad. Or 3D TVs and curved screens. Awesome tech, but no one cared. Mono to stereo is like from black and white to color. After that, guess what. Everything is already spacial. Atmost doesn't make anything more spacial! Stereo is already spacial - its not like its not spacial already. And all this hype is ridiculous. Lots of money will be lost on this. Tons.
I mix in Atmos in headphone and I landed major label placements and I educate the indie artist to jump on the bandwagon, so they don't get lost in the sauce
At the end of the day, no matter what you do, good music will go somewhere, whereas bad music won't go anywhere. I feel like this whole Atmos thing is just another excuse for us to take our attention away from what we're good at and what we love to do. If it's really a requirement then we can ease into it naturally. There's no need to panic.
thanks so much for addressing all these concerns! You briefly touched on it and I feel like you were meaning to bring out the point, but simply forgot to mention it in the moment...and that's the fact that 5.1 failed largely due to the fact that it was a hardware based, end user experience, whereas Atmos is a software object based end user experience...I think that's made the biggest difference...it will just "read" what the user has and output the appropriate fold-down for that device...which is the real game changer here...I own a facility way up here in northern Saskatchewan Canada (basically the boonies) and even though I can't afford to install a full Atmos rig immediately, I'm wise enough to see the writing on the wall and at least start preparing for it now. Sure appreciate the channel and the way you're letting us in on where things are heading (almost like an inside scoop) so that we can stay in the game for the long haul 🙂
I was just told the Kali Audio setup is about $5k.
So please consider expanding on this topic. How can a small studio recording and mixing in stereo set up their sessions that is conducive to mixing in Atmos later? Is there a way to organize my DAW template to not get in the way of moving to Atmos mixing later on?
I don't really care for Atmos, when I listened to music I'm not really bothered by special awareness. Nice technology granted but I listen to music to get comfort and enjoyment from it.
This is going to kill the live industry as well. I don’t see atmos coming to live concert venues. Which means if consumers can get a great atmos experience at home or on headphones, then why would the consumer go see a “dull stereo” live performance? I don’t know, I’m concerned for the future of the music industry.
I'm just getting into mixing. Spent a lot of money for me. Now at a minimum i need 7.1.4 for atmos... I'm a go drink a beer lol
Instead of pushing bullshit technologies which work in only specific conditions force producers to do what they already want to do and what we listeners want them to do which is higher bitrate and lossless compression. Spotify pushes terrible 320kbps mp3s which is shit. Only Tidal seems to care but not all the library is in "master quality" so forcing it as apple is doing with atmos would be a great step into improving our sound. Almost every system everyone already has could sound so much better but there isn't any source where to take high bitrate music files from. That would change that (at least in the future) and nobody cares about Atmos, nobody needs that, it makes sense only in few situation which is not even 5% of situations when people listen to music.
It's physically impossible to have multichannel audio experience in headphones. Everyone who says otherwise is just ignorant or is a liar/scammer. They still can't even bring a realistic solution to have a stereo-speakers-in-a-room illusion, but somehow a professional 7.1.2 setup is possible in headphones right now. What a joke!
Everyone hates Atmos. Everyone disables head tracking with their AirPods Pro. This bad idea will die out in a few years like 3D TVs did.
In order to be mixed in Atmos, do our recording techniques need to change? Does this affect those of us who record our music at home and then send it off to be mixed?
Of course. Instead of 2 tracks stereo you have to send at least stems or all the tracks.
@@Fastvoice ....... you send a stereo track to get mixed yeah? :D
@@machineagevoodoo2106 Nope - I meant "mastered" because I misread your question. My bad. For mixing your stuff elsewhere there should be no change at your side AFAIK.
@@Fastvoice Sure I was just being cheeky. there is no mastering in atmos though because there is no "mix bus" only objects. the current method of "mastering" atmos is super convoluted using a virtual bus that you side chain to identical but separate processing on each and every object
@@machineagevoodoo2106 There are several studios that offer atmos mastering. E. g. Abbey Road Studios in London: "We are now expanding our world class mastering and Dolby Atmos mixing services with the opening of a new mastering suite designed specifically for Dolby Atmos Music mastering."
And a bit further you can read: "We can work from your stem mastered stereo session to bring your mix into the immersive space in Dolby Atmos or from a final ‘pre-mastered’ ADM BWF WAV Dolby Atmos file. "
Will the streaming services, specifically Spotify, allow artist/distributors to "upload" stereos mixes only, or will they require Atmos mixes only?
I think what you’re not realizing is that music and film have different audio needs.
In a film the consumer needs to feel like they are “in” the film, that’s where surround sound comes into place.
Music has never been that way. When you see somebody play music the music is coming from center stage, not from all around you…
I also wish that advanced technology would prevail for once (Just remember 3D BluRay). In the real world, however, you can be happy if people still have a stereo system. In many homes it will fail because a system with more than 2 speakers is simply not wife compatible. You don't even want to know how many of my friends have to be content with a mono Bluetooth speaker. As a result, they will never hear the music the way it was intended. It hurts, but that's the way it is…
true
We might be closer than you think on the headphone front. I’ve been wanting to make the jump to atmos for quite a while but I can’t justify the entire atmos rig. HOWEVER, I’ve been doing a lot of film post mixing in 5.1 on headphones using DearVR Monitor and how well it’s translating is STAGGERING. Its incredible, I’m accurately mixing in 5.1 on headphones. DearVR also fully supports Atmos so I’m going to be picking up the Atmos production suite and at least trying it out using headphones. If it works, fantastic, there is a viable mixing option on headphones. If not, then I’ll just have to hold off a little longer. Point is there’s potentially a solution now completely ignoring Dolby’s binaural processing and keeping it outputting that 7.1.4 atmos mix while using the DearVR binaural conversion which I trust because they’re on the forefront for legitimate virtual reality mixing, that is one hell of a program. All I’m gonna need at the end of the day is a proper atmos room to check if this works or someone that has one helping me out.
It’s annoying when you here the same song clip on everyone’s channels.
A great stereo mix is a beautiful, musical thing. On a decent system it’s quite enveloping and satisfying. I really do not want to hear a strat coming from the toilet.
If only Dolby can port their Atmos Production Suite for Windows then yea, more people gonna try it.