Is Apple Accidentally Ruining Dolby Atmos Music?
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- Apple has issued a bounty to bolster its Dolby Atmos music catalog. More Dolby Atmos music for everyone to enjoy sounds awesome right? .Maybe. Or maybe …. It could cause a catastrophe?
As a music fan, and a spatial audio fan, I want to be excited that Apple is incentivizing record labels and artists to get busy making Dolby Atmos music mixes, but I’m worried, and for good reason.
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VIDEO CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
01:00 Sponsor: KTC G27P6 Gaming Monitor
02:41 Why Apple's Atmos Music Could Turn Into a Mess
06:19 Channa De Silva (Techno Dad) Interview
17:06 Final Thoughts
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Hi everyone! Thanks for taking the time to watch this one! A lot of facets to Atmos in general, and I think anytime Apple gets involved, it’s worth paying attention to what comes from that. Thanks for being part of the conversation! And I look forward to the next few videos coming out as we prep for CES! See y’all soon!
There is a massive opportunity in classical music recorded natively in Atmos. There are a lot of enthusiasts who want to hear an orchestra sound just like it does for the conductor, and who would rebuy all manner of repertoire if it were recorded by a top shelf orchestra with state of the art sound. I'm one of them.
the problem is you can only stream dolby atoms much you can actually buy 5.1 classical mixes.
Isn’t a good conductor trying to present music in the best way to the audience, the whole audience, in an auditorium, versus Atmos which will present music that works in only a very small location in an expensively created dedicated listening space?
@@phenixnunlee372 There are Blu-Ray releases with Atmos sound. DG's recent Beethoven Piano Concerto cycle with Zimerman is an example.
@@MaBaKar How is this different than 2 channel recording (of which I own and cherish many hundreds). I am an audience of one. Why would I not want as immersive and high quality a recording as I could get for home listening?
Apple Music should give us the ability to rate the mixes. That way the users will have a scale for what people think is a good mix or not and uploaders will be incentivized to correct their mixes.
I would be against this. Most people have no idea about sound quality or mix quality. Most people like The Weeknd and Taylor Swift.
@@conorfurlong I think that most people would know what a good immersive mix is. Sound quality is a different thing and it's not the issue here. Also, I would think that most people who take the time to rate something are probably passionate about it. The casual pop user will pass on it. Anyway, I don't really believe that AM will do such a thing, so all my words are for nothing :)
@@sgrimbl You have much greater faith in humanity. I on the other hand have very little, especially when it comes to popular opinions on what qualifies as ‘sounding good’. Have you checked out the charts in recent years?
In addition, the quality of a mix is dependent on a multitude of factors, including on what equipment did the listener choose to listen to it? Speakers? Headphones? Ear buds? Quality of speakers or headphones or earbuds? It’s not like reviewing a song or a film. Reviewing a mix is much more complicated. What sounds great to someone on their listening set up might sound awful to someone else on theirs. And I don’t trust people to know the difference.
A user review system is a bad idea.
@@conorfurlong There are guardrails that you can put to get quality input from quality users.
But your points are valid.
@@conorfurlongTaylor Swift’s album ‘13 Midnights’ is an excellent example of Atmos music done right.
Perhaps a bad example. 😂
I noticed the volume reduced massively in songs with Dolby atmos while listening to Apple Music.
I turned it off and it is much better experience.
Yeah and for me, it’s the opposite in Spotify. Music sounds better in Spotify using Spatial Audio.
@@thecapone45i thought Spotify didn’t support it? or did you use “spatialize audio”?
@@thecapone45Spotify doesn’t have Spatial Audio though?
@@sgtpepper54321 yes. That’s what I was saying. Heck even RUclips has it.
@@thecapone45 sorry to burst a bubble but you might be using the Spatialise Audio feature that does the same thing 3D tvs used to do by making 2D stuff into 3D. Not actual 3D content as google states Spotify doesn’t support spatial
I'm an audio engineer and I've opted out of mixing music in Atmos. It's not even just that I'd have to invest at least $20 grand on a speaker array.. the fact that Apple Music doesn't even use the Dolby decoder is total insanity. I have no interest in switching to Logic... how do I know how the Apple decoder is going to interpret my mix if I'm mixing the track using the Dolby encoder? Most "spacial audio" tracks on AM sound like they're being played through PA speakers in an empty club and SERIOUSLY lack the energy of the stereo mix. When normal people on the AM reddit are asking why their music sounds bad when playing from their iPhone, but sounds fine when playing from their Mac and it's because spacial audio is on by default on the iPhone, I think it safe to say there's a very big problem. On top of that, artists themselves seem generally pretty apathetic about Atmos and spacial audio. The whole thing is a mess.
Highly recommend the Spatial Audio toolkit for anyone dialing in their home theater setup. Great collaboration guys!
Ha, Techno Dad, Great to see him. I've been a subscriber to his channel for years.
Ayyyyy!! Love it!
Billie Eilish was my first experience with Spatial Audio on Apple and I was floored!! Otherwise, it’s a “mixed” bag (sorry couldn’t resist😂)! There is definitely a difference between Spatial and merely spacious, or worse. Also I don’t find listening to Spatial on my new AirPods Pro nearly as mind boggling as on my speakers on both my systems (when done right) and don’t think much of the head-turning thing. So glad you brought this up!! I have always considered myself an audio purist, but when done well Spatial is amazing!!
Upvoted for the pun!
@@brendan95delanyhaha!! Thanks!
Pun approved! And I agree, still a bit of a chasm between spatial on headphones he’s a discreet speaker system.
@@Caleb_Denison 🥰
Billie Eilish's albums really do seem like the gold standard. Random Access Memories is another standout.
There’s good and bad mixes in Mono, Stereo and now there will be in Atmos too.
True, but mixing in Atmos is much harder than any of those. (Well, except mono.)
Hi I have message a couple of times have another question if no response I wont message anymore Atmos speaker I'm running a denon x4700h 5.1.4 set with Q acoustic speakers 3050i floor standers and 320i plus centre and sub I have got 4 wharfedale D300 very capable budget speakers £150 uk Amazon at the moment the there on the wall front and back rear wall or do I put them on them on top of the speakers as I can't have ceiling speaker I have a pair of eltax bipolar speakers can I use them for the rears I've noticed there really isn't much difference in sound placement on the Atmos speakers thanks
Techno Dad!!! This part was great!😀 I would absolutely love to have a choice of which type of Atmos file to listen to!
Hi, how do I get the Apple Music app on my LG C2 to play Dolby Atmos music on my LG Atmos Soundbar?
What a great video this was. I feel like Caleb has more creative space now? Idk, but between this video and the you asked series, what a joy it is to watch this channel! (Keep the fun little bits :D!!)
If AI puts one human being, we will bring John Conner back from the future and destroy the insidious AI!
Tech Dad is correct, A lot of music does sound horrible when using Apple's Spatial or Dolby sound enhancements. it works for movie type environment, for music, not so much. be it on headphones (Nura over the ear I have) or the surround in the car, it just doesn't work for all types of music. i keep it off now. it ruins many classic rock, R&B or disco tracks.
As an audio mix engineer, enthusiast on atmos in general and its benefits over traditional formats, this is a very complicated matter that can’t be fully explained in a RUclips video, never mind comment. It’s way more complicated than what you have (very well) laid out, and at the moment we are in a transition that apple is “promoting” so the format doesn’t die right away as many others have in the past. There are too many variables in place, and you’ve placed many but there are more.
What it comes down to in the end is a conflict of interests in all parts involved and none willing to take the risk, and the education to the general public on why atmos is superior to the traditional formats and why it matters. Which you are dealing with, but at the end of the day, the general public is still listening to low quality mp3s as the holy grail. It’s a hard battle
I would love a breakdown between mixing songs for Sony's 360 Reality Audio and Dolby Atmos. I have heard some Sony mixes and they are hit or miss. When they are good they are fantastic. I just wish there were easier and more ways to get spacial audio in a home theater setup since the focus has been headphones.
Sony 360 audio for gaming works so well because games are created in lpcm and so all the data is already there. With music, most music is recorded in stereo and that's why it's super complicated to convert that into good Atmos. For Atmos music to be easier, studios need to be recording in Atmos and Stereo, have 13 speakers in the studio, 11 for Atmos, 2 for stereo
You can have Spatial Audio in a home theatre if you own an Apple TV or a Mac with hdmi
Great video. I’ve been an avid surround mix collector for over a decade and was thrilled to hear about Spacial audio coming to streaming. I agree some of the tracks particularly in the early days were awful. It seems like now things are fine to exceptional. I wish the experience was more accessible to home listeners without having to make a large investment.
I listen to the Made for Spatial playlist on Apple Music and find myself skipping over certain tracks I don’t find satisfying. Maybe they are fine, but I am not wowed.
@LeezahB it takes a bit of hunting to find the few good atmos tracks on Apple.
Fantastic video as always! Merry Christmas mate!
One example of a bad Atmos mix is Surfacing from Sarah Mchlachlan on Apple Music. I am shocked there’s no QA on it.
Really interesting video, Caleb, keep doing these. I don't have Atmos (I think my old ears have peaked at 6.1; though I am playing with spatial audio on AirPods Pro 2gen), but am concerned at how content producers leaning into Atmos might make my humble set up sound incorrect.
Not sure if you've noticed, but that blue light over your left shoulder absolutely clips on my computers in your video. Once you've noticed the blazing blue sunrise behind Caleb, you can't un-see it. Not sure if it's like this in other videos. Otherwise the studio is very nice, well lit.
Caleb, I am a fan. Especially since I too live in the Portland area. I have been listening to surround mixes since SACD DSD and DVD Audio with Advanced Resolution, then BluRay Audio, and now of course Dolby Atmos. I was very excited for Apple’s roll out and was extremely disappointed at first. I knew that there was a push to get people to remix huge albums in Atmos and it was a rush job. There were a few gems like Kraftwerk who had already put out their album in a 5.1 mix. But then I started hearing some better mixes, and finally Tears for Fear’s album The Tipping Point was a masterpiece in Atmos. That was mixed by Steven Wilson who also had been working in the 5.1 surround format for years. I loath that most people’s experience with Atmos music will be in headphones. I have AirPods Pro and it does very little especially compared to my 7.1.2 home theater. The mixes are getting better as producers are learning the new format, and we have had some amazing 2 channel mixes and absolutely terrible 2 channel mixes since the beginning of stereophonic music. We will come to recognize and praise brilliance in Atmos mixing and I hope we get Grammy Awards for best Atmos mix so there’s recognition and benchmarks to try and rise to for budding mixers out there.
One last thing, your last three seconds of the video got me to hit the LIKE button! Cracked me up!
Short answer to the title, yes! A rush to make surround sound just something you do would be akin to the travesty that is autotune.
What does that even mean
I agree with your concerns. I’m a huge of Atmos and I’m really hoping they don’t ruin it. I think they need a better to certify Atmos to ensure a quality product is being delivered.
Thank for sharing here. I know I have heard some atmos tracks on Apple Music, that really didn't impress me at all. I will note, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and INXS's Kick were both awesome atmos mixes, that I actually listened to on the blu-ray discs.
There is a lot more that sounds great, but you have to dig for it, unfortunately.
Try finding Billy Joel’s Pianoman in Atmos. They did a top notch job on that one for sure!
Caleb, you mentioned the Spatial Audio Tool Kit is on sale for 15% off but I followed the link and no sale is listed. Is there a code or something to get that deal?
Yes! Sorry, I’ve updated the description now. Use HOLIDAY15 for 15 percent off.
@@Caleb_Denison thanks I will use, just have to decide if the digital or physical is better for me.
Outstanding video and I learned a lot of information. Thank you!
I switched Atmos OFF because i just don’t care enough about that game of “is this atmos mix going to suck?” The answer is almost always yes, so no atmos for me.
Oof…I just hope with these incentives in place that there aren’t any deadlines with it. That’s where corners are cut, like with movies that have a release date even before a script is written. Just take the necessary time to make it the best it can be, and I’m good with incentives.
I appreciate that you deferred to someone with more knowledge about atmos music. I am not sure that Channa is the best person to defer to however. Much like doctors on the news, the people most available to "interview" are often (not always) doing work of the least consequence.
SACT and JNT's MBTT are hugely important to the extent that they optimize people's setups. This is a lot like taking my first drumset and giving the sticks to a pro--he will do wayyyy more with it quality wise. I think channa raised some red flags before he fullly understood (mouth started before ears were finished) and stirred up a lot of nothing in regards to the mixes of atmos movies.
Compared to me, channa is definitely way more knowledgable and capable. Compared to people who do this professionally, channa is me. It would have been far more advantageous to just grab a David Frangioni for something like this. He is exactly who you are looking for in this instance.
Understanding "SPATIAL AUDIO", starts with understanding that not all multichannel mixes are equal. Most Dolby mixes on Apple, unless mixed from scratch, are basically a DSP, something Yamaha receivers have done for years. You get L+R+ a mix of both in the center with vocals pushed up + Reverb in the rear with the bass usually lacking. Unremarkable and gimmicky at best, and occasionally so bad that they are pulled: Seal, Florence mysteriously vanished from Apple Music shortly after release. Those who go in the Studio with the intention of doing mixes (or remixes) with proper spatial placement standout by a mile: Brian Eno, Peter Gabriel, Souldive and of course Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon sound incredible. But great mixes are few, and even if you find them, Apple Music is limited to 48Mhz, which will never reach the resolution of a multi-channel Blu Ray or SACD. It's a great marketing tool for Apple, but way too "niche" for labels and artists to bother to invest in it, and when they do, they usually want to push physical media.
I’ve been mixing in Atmos for almost a year . The speaker mix is the best experience,however, the vast majority of music fans will probably never hear a properly calibrated speaker system, if any at all . I have heard many disastrous Atmos mixes ,binaurally and speaker wise . Who, at these labels are checking these mixes , at all ?
What's also a problem with Atmos in Apple Music is the use LFF. Sometime the LFE content is out of phase with the rest. When bass is mixed to the fronts and the LFE in the mix you got cancellations and the bass is missing at some frequencies. That's a well known problem in movies and caused by different bass management settings in the studio vs at home and thus it is recommended to not mix parts of music into the LFE and the mains or generally mix bass that is correlated to both the mains and the LFE. Pioneer tried to solve this in their AVrs by determining the delay of the LFE. With Denon and Marantz AVRs you can adjust the delay of the LFE (Bass sync) but this would have to be done for every track. In case of Apple music this happens too often. In some tracks it works fine but in other tracks I would have to even invert the LFE channel to bring back the bass. In some cases even disabling the LFE sound better. Bottom line would be: Refrain from using the LFE in music. If you do only mix content there which is not already present on the mains.
The timing of this video is so funny Caleb.. I just yesterday cancelled my Apple Music subscription.. I was naive that my HT A9 was receiving atmos via apple music app on lg c1 oled.. But the added cost of apple tv is no go for my setup.. Switching to amazon music for now as at least it supports sony 360 RA so i can use my a9 to full potential
The playback device should be able to tell what it will be playing over before the audio starts and then playback the “version” that’s suited for the device.
I think he missed a key point about the renderer, Apple specifically avoided the issue of mixing for a target setup, which is what other streaming platforms are doing by using the atmos headphone mix. Apple takes the 3D mapping and adapts it on the fly, that’s the only way you can have truly personalized Spatial Audio, and still be able to output a 7.1 or 5.1 mix via Apple TV. The whole point is not to mix for a given a setup.
That’s what Dolby Atmos is about… Rendering for a particular setup is handled by the audio processor.
I am an Audio newbie. I am confused on lossless vs high res lossless vs Atmos. Like are movies mixed in lossless and atmos or is that just music?
Why does Apple Music have lossless vs atmos written on certain songs
Surround sound and Atmos are amazing for movies, but I much prefer stereo sound for music. I want my music to be clear and concentrated and free of affectations. I feel that immersive sound technologies strip away or dilute the dynamics and power that an accurate pair of stereo speakers are capable of delivering, especially ones with good imaging.
I agree with every point you have raised in your video. Dolby Atmos music, when implemented well, is such a great listening experience. In general, I prefer an experiencing a well created Dolby Atmos music track over listening to that same track that is as well mixed in stereo only.
The only caveat is that the Dolby Atmos mix must be implemented with care and attention to detail.
The only point I would like to add to the discussion is that it is in Apple’s corporate DNA to provide its customers with a premium product/service where every detail has been carefully considered and refined so as to meet, and even exceed, the expectations of their customers. Apple wants to delight their users with an experience that is (for the most part) uniquely available to Apple customers.
Given Apple’s long history of designing and building market leading products and services, I remain (mostly) confident that Apple is keenly aware of how great a well mixed Dolby Atmos track can sound versus how a poorly mixed Dolby Atmos track sounds. As such, it would be of no surprise to me that Apple will have worked hard behind the music scene with all relevant parties to ensure that Dolby Atmos music tracks will be mixed with great care to meet the high expectations Apple has for itself and its customers.
I really hope this is used to revive some old quadrophonic and 5.1 mixes that got put out in the past, and more experimental artists making albums that were built for surround from the start. Probably won't happen, but it's what I want
That reminds me of hearing quadraphonic for the first time…friend had pretty high end set up with 8 track playing Deep Purple’s Made In Japan album. Was sure revolutionary to my teenage ears.
Most of those quadraphonic records have been made into 5.1 dvd audio mixes for years now such as night at the opera by queen. Some of those have become atmos mixes too ◡̈
Actually some AI cover tracks are really good. There’s Austrian painter that die in 1945 AI cover of “Billy Jean” and it really does sound like him singing Billie Jean!
Maybe WW2 might’ve not happened if he know he could sing…
Also Freddie AI cover of “my heart will go on” sound every bit like what you would’ve imagine him to sound like if he got the chance to sing it… a lot of people did weep.
Techo Dad is very cool 😎 and very professional!!
Thank you!
I agree with your assessment but the same can be said for every movie studio skimping on ATMOS mixes. Any time there is a big push to get a product out to market as fast as possible you're going to get poor quality. I find it very interesting that Movies in DTS-X have a much higher production quality and fewer "flops" when it comes to sound quality.
Good. Hopefully it kills the format entirely. If atmos became the standard it would make independent home studio produced music a total monetary impossibility, just like it was prior to modern digital recording becoming accessible to regular consumers.
Yeah. I’ve turned it off because I’m tired of the vocals sounding like they’re down the street from the band. “POV” by Ariana Grande is the perfect example of how Apple’s Dolby Atmos ruins songs. It literally sounds like her microphone malfunctioned during a concert.
Try listening to better mixed Atmos. It is fantastic.
Asian girls got the best atmos 🤭✌️
Techno Dad!
FWIW, that KTC OLED monitor he talks about is not a 4K, but a 1440P monitor. And it is roughly twice the price of a same size 4K LCD monitor.
I have a 11.2 system, Revel Speakers, and it is true, when the ATMOS mixing is good is a new whole new experience, but when not done well is just at level of stereo music, so, I am not too worried, just excited to get more good ATMOS
As a hearing aid user who streams audio directly to them via Bluetooth I’m certainly curious if I’ll be able to experience Atmos music!!
I enjoy Atmos immensely with my home theater so yeah I’m pro Atmos!
They are pushing Atmos music but their own music app doesn't even support Atmos on all but apple TV boxes I believe.
The apple TV app on the other hand seems to widely support Atmos.
So for example you can have both the apple music and the apple TV app on your TV but the music app won't support Atmos while the apple TV app will, why? This makes zero sense.
Surely if your pushing a service you want to have it as easily accessible as possible, but hey what do I know I'm just your target demographic 🤣
Talking about actual atmos multi channel here, as opposed to Atmos on headphones.
We need more Dolby Atmos/Spatial Audio recordings or soundtracks made available on physical Blu-Ray audio disks. I don’t like the idea that Apple Music is monopolizing the availability of multi channel music - from the labels and for the consumers- like the Atmos mix of The Beatles - Revolver and the forthcoming Rubber Soul.
I applaud Warner Music, Rhino Entertainment and Steven Wilson for the spectacular remaster and remix of Van Morrison’s seminal Moon Dance on Blu-Ray audio. Both the Atmos and the DTS 5.1 productions are an excellent example of immersive audio for enthusiasts.
I have a very good home theater sound system I designed with a heavy emphasis on music reproduction. I occasionally listen to multi channel music but for me, I still prefer a good stereo mix.
I think this will only potentially be bad for smaller indie artists due to the incentives. Big named artists will not let their art be rushed and ruined for some cash. For example, Beyoncé’s renaissance was only available in stereo for almost a year. Now it’s available in atmos and it’s significantly better.
Let's be honest, there are some crap spatial audio mixes on Apple Music. I just upgraded my home theater system with all Kef Meta speakers in a 5.1.2 setup. I had high expectations. The variability in quality is significant. One Alanis Morissette song sounded like she was singing from behind me. WTF
My 2 cent here is as my tv (C2) Atmos playback (in movies and tv shows) is good enough for me does not mean that it is good for everyone else. I know it is not true Atmos but in my room it does it really well (for me). I am lucky that my tv only rattles at a certain frequency and not all over like most other owners had reported. For music right now I'm sticking to stereo only and wait till the dust settles.
I was given two Sonos Era 300s for my birthday in September, and was looking forward to listening to some Spatial music. I have yet to hear one that doesn't sound meh, at the very best, to rubbish for the majority. I've just switched the feature off now and listen in regular stereo. This feels like the 3D TV fad (which I loved).
Some not all Apple Music wasn't in Dolby Atmos, eg Ariana Grande - Into You was in lossless form. And your back and forth narration in between the bad & the good of it speak volumes. And the choice of specialized stereo head track gave the 360 degree experience which was amazing & never been done before (I used it all the time). This is the 1st time I heard someone complain or tryna diss about it.
We can’t even get well mixed, dynamic stereo music mixes lol. Atmos is cool but such a niche. 90% of people consuming these mixes are probably using airpods or a soundbar.
It would be nice if Apple Music in Lossless and Atmos on their apps outside the Apple ecosystem. On the Music app outside Apple is only available in stereo.
Great segment with Techno Dad (he knows his stuff). I like his idea of having a select file for the end user👍🏻
Sounds like Apple needs the raw file (before the mix) in order to produce true Dolby Atmos?
Dolby Atmos should stay in movies!
I love Apple Music but most of the Atmos tracks/albums I’ve listened to, the music sound washed out and quieter. So I’ve switched to stereo for now. Hopefully things change.
Oooooooooooooo can KTC PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make us a 40ish-65ish" monitor!?!?!?! 😮
You play the trumpet!? I play the trumpet!! Trumpet buddies woohoo!!! 😂😂😂
They make a 42-inch OLED monitor as well. One of our computing reviewers just bought one and wrote about it!
Many windows users dont know how much of a banger is Dolby Access app in windows store is... for airpods pros!! totally worth it
An example of a Dolby Atmos album that I really don't like is Hybrid Theory by LINKIN PARK. The bass just doesn't have the same impact that the regular lossless mixing does, so I exclusively listen to the original lossless mix on that one. However, the recent remix of Abby Road by The Beatles sounds amazing in Dolby Atmos, much better than the original mix.
INXS's Kick sounds somewhat better on my Sony A7000 soundbar. with sub and a pair of RS5s than it did in the 1987 Buick Regal with a Blaupunkt Aspen car stereo I had back then. 😊.
They could at the very least FIX Dolby Atmos, by allowing support on AppleTV 4K of TrueHD Atmos
Very informational people that work with dolby atmos have so much more to learn how to make it better
You are absolutely right, the streaming service like Spotify or Apple Music MUST PAY more artists for their works.
After watching the Playlist movies, artists have been scammed by these Services and Production companies.
Very informative… thanks , I had no idea what I SHOULD be hearing is what is actually being flogged as Atmos …
I’m informed
If I wanted to experience the Billie Eilish album in Dolby Atmos, would it be better to use Apple headphones to experience it such as AirPods pros or AirPod max or a home theater Dolby Atmos set up?
If possible, a home theatre Dolby Atmos setup.
This will go the exact same way that modern mastering goes.
Record companies tell mastering engineers how to master a track and the engineer has to comply, even if that means making a horribly over-compressed track solely aimed to pop out on TikTok and Instagram.
Record companies we tell atmos engineers what they want and those engineers will do it, even if it means horrible mixes. Because record companies want fast, easy cash. Knowing how record companies behave, I guarantee you that the vast majority of atmos mixes - other than prestige releases such as Dark Side of the Moon - will be unlistenable.
Dolby Atmos has a huge flaw. Headphone support is an afterthought. The issue in the music industry, is that most mixing and mastering engineers refuse to acknowledge that they should prioritize headphone mixing and mastering, as that is how most listeners that car at least a bit about sound quality will experience songs, nowadays. But even before, there is a huge difference between near-field monitors in a treated room, and stereo speakers in a home, so they were never mixing and mastering for listeners. Mixes don't translate they way they pretend. Checking in a car o a living room style set-up, is just a matter of checking that is sounds ok, not actually making it sound its best in those scenarios. Ironically, headphones translate much better, any pair of headphones will be much closer to how the engineer experienced the sound with their headphones, than a stereo speaker set-up in a room compared to near field monitors in a studio.
So there was in theory some potential here, for mixing and mastering engineers that refuses headphone mixing, to introduce a medium that would make sure that mixes for stereo near field monitors would translate to headphone listening, by introducing stereo cross-talk and making the low end mono, and adding a bit of reverb for emulating the limited amount of reflections that still occurs in most studio engineering rooms.
But Atmos does not do that.
Atmos is a format developed for speakers.
In general it does a pretty good job translating between different amount of speakers, in a multi speaker set-up. No soundbar without discrete speakers will ever sound like true surround sound, and most buyers are aware, knowing they do get a limited experience.
But there are some curiosities;
The Atmos bed is considered 7.1.2, meaning 7 speakers at ear height (in the same positions as in 7.1), and two positioned like a stereo pair above the listener. Because of the positioning of sound, a 5 speaker set-up at ear height, can't emulate the sound of 7. So realistically for surround sound, Dolby should not have recognized any 5.1.x set-up as dolby.
The next issue is the speakers above the head. The speaker placement in x.x.2 and x.x.4 differs a lot. in x.x.4 the speakers above the listener should no longer be in a stereo position above the listener, but two in front and two behind the listener position. If sound is placed in the 7.1.2 bed set-up, it will not translate very well to a x.x.4 set-up as any sound that was directly above the listener will not sound as coming from that position. Ironically, a downmix from x.x.4 should translate better to x.x.2, not well, but better, as all sounds intended to come from above will at least do that, although the positioning effect will be lost. Because of the incompatibility issues, I would really recommend x.x.6, to make sure the sound will be positioned correctly no matter if it was made for x.x.2, x.x.4 or x.x.6. Dolby should have settled in positioning two speakers directly above the head in all configurations, to avoid this.
Back to headphones though, it gets even messier.
Apple have their own method for decoding Dolby Atmos for headphones, and are not using the official standard. Meaning that there is no de facto standard for headphone playback. The same mix will therefor sound different with the same headphones, switching between the Apple decoding and the Dolby decoding.
But neither Apples nor Dolbys decoding actually solves the main issue of making studio engineering mixes work with headphones. As in both cases it uses Dolby atmos, where headphone playback is just an afterthought. (currently as far as I know, no dolby atmos enabled receiver or decoder supports Dolby Atmos for headphones. Some android phones does, X box One and series X and S does with a paid plugin (and you can send that signal over HDMI to get atmos for headphones with headphones connected to the receiver/decoder). Some android phones does support Atmos for headphones. Apple TV supports Apples version of it for apple headphones, but only one pair, despite having the ability connect two pairs in non Dolby Atmos mode. And Apple phones and tablets and recent computers support their version , and I guess for any pair of headphones, at least wired).
So what we really needed was a new format. One that was developed with headphones very much in mind.
Dolby atmos isn't the solution for the actual issue we have, of mixes not translating well to headphones.
Atmos and DTS:X are better solutions for surround sound with speakers compared to previous formats. But they aren't developed to be used mainly with headphones.
After playing Apple Music on my Apple TV to a Sony reciever, hell all my receivers. It’s fkking crazy insane good. It sounds like I’m front row in the best stadium. ❤
It sounds glorious on my jbl 1300x with the 12 inch subwoofer
About a month ago I borrowed a Apple TV 4K and listen to the Apple music Atmos tracks on my incredibly high quality 5.1 system. To say the least I was pretty underwhelmed with 90% of what I heard. One of the big problems is of course it's lossy with each channel being 768 k at most which is piddly compared to true disc Atmos (like the spectacularly mentioned INXS "Kick" release. One of the most impressive collectionI heard was Lady Gaga Atmos songs. I have no doubt that Billie Eilish's versions are well done because I knew her brother was a production genius (and would win producer of the year) the first moment I heard her main breakthrough album.
Steven Wilson's phenomenal mixes are obviously the main ones to hunt down and listen to... so I wish Apple would label who did the mixes right there in the forefront
I am skeptical about atmos for music. I prefer standard 2 channel sound because I want it to sound like the music is coming at me from a stage in front, not from overhead or behind me. I totally get having atmos for movies.
Some of the best spatial music doesn’t resort to any trickery. They maintain that familiar front soundstage, but it is bigger, wider, and sounds awesome.
I’ve not had much luck with headphones, but in a surround sound home theatre, it can be great!
Anyone have a well curated list of good spatial audio albums?
Yes please!
Here’s an idea for another video - a $4.000 stereo audio system vs a $2.000 Dolby Atmos system?
In other words a higher end 2 channel system of a mid level multi channel ?
Good idea
There should be 2 different categories of Atmos. A simulated Atmos for headphone users, and a true multi channel “Atmos Pro” or something for home theater/movie theater etc.
I’m going to mix my newest track in Atmos, but for the typical consumer of my music: those with AirPods. Even if only my 20 closest friends hear it, only one of those people has a true Atmos setup with overhead satellite speakers and all that jazz. I’m going to experiment with mixing and mastering the Atmos version on Logic Pro X for headphone users and then reassess.
I like atoms I just want to be able to make atoms mixes on logic for ipad even if it’s exclusively only make on m2 and above iPads
Thanks for this video.
I like spacial audio Spacial Audio on Apple Music but it not as amazing as Apple wants people to think it is. It does sound better than stereo because I notice they have better audio processing so bass sound deeper and cleaner and the surround effect is good but not great.
But everything is different when listening to spacial audio on Apple TV watching true surround sound movies or TV series. That is the real way to experience spacial audio. It sounds like being in a real theater. Head tracking feature never made sense to me for Apple Music on AirPods Pro’s or AirPod Max as one would be moving around and it messes the head tracking feature. However when using Head Tracking while watching a movie on Netflix from Apple TV with Apple AirPods Pros/Max is amazing. I forgot I was even wearing my AirPods Pros and thought I was listening to highend surround sound speaker system.
If you have home theater (at least 5.1) and an apple tv = dolby atmos sounds amazing!
I have DA turned off in AM. Poor DA mixes far outnumber the good.
Very good video but to be honest I'm happy with my 11.1 Onyko/JBL system it performs great for me and shocks my guests who listen to it. I'm not going to go out of my way for what they say is the latest and greatest when I currently have sounds great to me!!!!! t's too expensive to keep chasing these upgrades for minimal performance gains.
Fwiw I like this longer format. Disagree on the “too long” comment,
Me too!!!!!!
Honestly, Atmos just being turned on in my devices and listening to regular stereo mixes give a much more pleasant experience than Atmos mixes themselves.
Dolby Atmos shouldn't be used for music unless that music is specifically created for it, it adds nothing to the creation when another random person is tasked with rearranging it. It's a remix in all but title unless the original artist is involved directly. Keep Atmos for movies, that's where we need spatial audio. There will always be a massive divide between Atmos in headphones and on a proper multi-speaker system and you know Apple is going to prioritize its own headphones. I hope we don't kill this awesome movie tech to make some money from idiots while the audiophiles laugh from the sidelines watching as stereo is once again in the ring against a competitor. We know how all the previous bouts went.
One major issue with Apple Music is that if you have an Atmos version downloaded and you have Atmos turned OFF in your Apple Music settings, it will still play the Atmos version if you select that song / album from your library.
This is an issue on Android and from what I can tell iPhone users have this issue as well. I don't want the Atmos version in my car. I want the stereo version, not a binaural rendered version with a wider dynamic range that is useless in a high noise floor environment.
It's very annoying, I have reported it to Apple numerous time, and yet it still happens, even though on the support site it states that Apple Music will download both a stereo and an Atmos version, but this is not the case.
On their site it states that to play the atmos version you’ll have to delete the previously downloaded version and download it again with atmos enabled, so I suppose this has to be done if you want the stereo version if you downloaded the atmos one
3:22 dark side of the moon by who?
Pink Floyd?
I subscribed to Apple Music just because of the Atmos music. Some of it is great, some has used it so poorly that I wouldn’t know it was Atmos had my receiver’s display not told me. Last year there were some really pitiful mixes that ended up being pulled.
I’d much rather spend my money on discs if more of them were put out, but they’re few and far between compared to what’s on Apple.
I have an Atmos track for a song I like and it makes it sound like ass playing from an Apple TV to a 7.4.2 home theater. The RUclips version sounds so much better which is crazy due to the compression
I’m thinking the concerns are all misplaced/dramatic. The artist and their team produce the Dolby Atmos content with the intent of giving us a new experience to showcase their music. Innovation leveraged by the artist is always welcomed. Non Dolby Atmos content of the artist’s songs remains available as an option. Dolby TrueHD is also being leveraged and included with many of the Dolby Atmos mixes. Go Dolby and Apple.
OLED gaming monitors careful usage no burn in
Something NOT mentioned that drives me crazy! According to Apple, Dolby Atmos on Apple music is NOT Lossless! 😢
They used “the ring podcast”music to open this video lol the ringer will be pissed
actually spatial audio and dolby atmos is great on live concerts. you can feel like you are in the middle of the stage. i am not sure if works for mixes. on more than 100 tracks i think i have heard only 3-4 that made sense to be atmos and was using the full potential of atmos
What i did… turned off Dolby Atmos . instead turned on spatial audio feature of my earbuds. way nice experience.
Yes.
As long as consumers always have a stereo mix to fall back on (if they don't like the Atmos mix that someone has done, regardless of who that person was, how skilled they were or what their motivation was for doing it) then it's not the end of the world. Where we are really going to see the industry get in trouble is when the Atmos version of a song is the ONLY version of it that it released to consumers. Then, they really are entirely at the mercy of how well that Atmos mix was done. Always give consumers a choice. Let THEM decide what they want to listen to - and just as importantly HOW they want to hear it presented to them.
In short fine tuning is required.