The MADNESS of DOLBY ATMOS for music fans
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
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Развлечения
Dolby Atmos will never replace stereo music, but it doesn’t need to. I enjoy it as a bonus for the music available, and which I like, on my 7.2.4 system. I also equally enjoy stereo, vinyl, speakers, headphones, SACD and DVDA. It can all exist together, just enjoy your preferred format. Personally I’m excited about the prospect of more music in Atmos.
Don’t obsess over sound quality. Buy a system that you can afford and listen to the music you like.🎉
I have a 7.3.4 home theatre setup separate from my two channel office system with an Apple TV and Sony UHD blu-ray player. I have thousands of Atmos tracks from Apple Music and it’s just amazing!
I absolutely looove atmos music on my multichannel set up.
Puts you in the middle of the music
Sip some whiskey and play some good hi-res with atmos is sublime.🍻
Many of us love films and music. I already have a 5.1 surround system, so, if I feel like it, I can play the Spatial Audio songs. I also own the Peter Gabriel I/O Dolby Atmos and it sounds great. For me, I didn’t need to buy any extra gear. I already had it for my movie watching.
Ditto
Concensus in music forums is that the I O cd is overcompressed & only the Inside mix on the Blu Ray provides a decent sound from physical media. If played through a 2 channel system I understand that folds down to stereo but you will still have a more open mix ?
Just purchased Dark Side of the Moon atmos Blu-ray and listened to it my theater room. 7.2.4 system. Amazing.
I hate Pink Floyd and I hate Dark side of the moon however the atmos mix is glorious.
Something wrong with you,,,,sorry
Invite Darko over so he can hear all proper!
Fakest comments ever. Especially the one saying hates Floyd but loves atmos
"we are talking about Atmos for music"... Pitchforks up!!!!
...torches ready.
Atmos is something which is incredibly cool and when done properly, so hard to argue against the benefits. But agh, the inconvenience vs the amount of content available is such a tough sell
Blue ray music is the best but even upmixing with a good avr is amazing as well tons of dsp options. I stream from an eversolo dmp-a6 master edition.
I can do pure direct 192/24 analog or multi channel @96/24 digital.
Super sweet
Quadrophonic music, 5.1 mixes, 3D music mixes have been tried to sell to the masses so many times over the decennia and it never stuck. For a good reason: it is inconvenient.
(Having done quite a bit of Atmos, and before that 5.1 surround mixes professionally) I fail to see the incredible coolness. I have sat wanting to cry out about the emperors new clothes at pretty much every demo I have been at in some incredible rooms with a full speaker setup, over the last almost 10(!) years now. Not. Blown. Away.
Artistically, there is no «killer app» for Atmos. It is an enourmous inconvenience for thinking it is kinda cool with backing vocals swirling from the roof the first couple of times. Here is the dark truth: Everyone will mix important instruments to emmanate from discrete, and not phantom sources. Which means we’re still at Stereo+psychacoustic FX to be compatible with everyone listening on simple setups, atmos or not. And since we’re not guaranteed that with atmos, we prefer stereo.
There is more loss than gain from a music audio engineer perspective.
In addition comes the gate keeper bullshit from Apple and Dolby and the ridicolous economics.
Consumers need to actively boycott atmos!
I think we desperately need wide adoption of an open spatial audio standard like IAMF. I've also always wanted to see widespread usage of different ways to calibrate spatial audio like the in-ear mic that comes with the JBL quantum one headset, how Sony let's you take pics of your ears for 360 reality audio, or how the Smyth A16 Realiser can use calibration files made by sticking mics in your ears and playing test tones from up to hundreds of speakers around you.
I have a Sonos Era 300 Dolby Atmos enabled pair (4.0.2 effectively) and Dolby Atmos sounds absolutely fantastic on them! If you've got dedicated speakers it's an awesome format. Over headphones it's mostly spim though, just binaural stereo at best.
I love my stereo. Music like it is performed in front of me. That's all!
Steven Wilson is a true Genius. The Album Years is a great Podcast, but you have to check out 3 of his solo records, The Raven That Refused to Sing (and Other Stories), Hand.Cannot.Erase and To The Bone... amazing.
One thing not mentioned is the mastering on the Atmos releases. They are very often way less dynamically compressed than the stereo releases.
That’s more of a big deal than lossy data compression in terms of sound quality.
Yep, true enough.
Yes that’s exactly why I wish labels would start releasing PHYSICAL versions of albums with Dolby atmos. Because even though I listen on headphones the dynamic range is just SO MUCH BETTER.
I think those other audiophile formats failed because you mostly can’t really hear high res audio, but you can DEFINITELY hear the better dynamics and separation that atmos offer. But that’s only available on streaming today.
Of course they could just end the loudness war on CDs but if the compromise is that they release a high dynamic range version on Blu-rays and make it cost 50% more I guess it would still be worth it.
Upgrading my dedicated home theater from 5.1 to 7.2.4 is the best upgrade that I have ever done to my movie watching and music listening.
Native atmos mixes on disc are the best, but the Dolby and DTS upmixers do a great job of non-immersive audio.
Atmos Soundbars and up-firing speakers are not true atmos. If you want audio over your head, install 2-4 height speakers in your ceiling
I see atmos (or 3D audio in general), as a sort of bonus. As home 3D audio systems become more common (soundbars, wireless speakers, etc), people with those systems will say "oh! There's a 3D version of this song - I'll listen to that instead". It feels like it's targeted more towards hybrid users, or home-cinema/gamer users, more than traditional stereo audiophiles - and there's nothing wrong with that.
People struggle recording, mixing, mastering for 2 channels. Same for listening setups, loudspeaker tolerances, room modes, phase&group delay issues, unsymetrical listening contions.. For atmos, you just multiply the problems and money. TV with 2 downfiring speakers, soundbar, 7.1.2 home theatre, airpod, all have atmos, just how? I have a good 2.0 setup. I don’t need any more. Thanks.
Max Cooper´s "Unspoken Words" and "Emergence" Dolby ATMOS releases are incredible
I spend FAR more time listing to music than watching movies. Having said that I have a 7.2.4 setup with acoustical treatments in my room. I use Apple music and love the option of playing Dolby Atmos music. I don't always prefer the Atmos version, but at least I have the choice. I have pretty nice gear (Marantz separates, Goldenear Reference speakers, JL Fathom subs) and even though the Atmos is "lossy" it still sounds fantastic. I get the whole "imaging of the band in front of you" ideal, and sometimes I prefer that, but I've really enjoyed a lot of Atmos content. It seems like Darko is annoyed there is even the option, but I for one am glad there is an option.
As of now... I think a full range 2.1 system is more than enough immension for my needs regardless if it's music and movies. Obviously whenever we're talking about the choice of stereo systems or a home theater systems depends on the individual and their multimedia lifestyle. I did experienced surround sound audio before and while I see the potential (and few are surprisingly good), it still has a long way to go before being a serious option for music. Now with a great stereo system... That's like 75-80% of a home theater system. I'm more in line that Dolby Atmos in music might work better with headphones and maybe car audio than at home. I still think stereo is superior at listening at home. But Dolby Atmos can give a different experience when done right.
I read the title and had to watch immediately. I heartily agree! I'm a stereo 2.1 channel kind of guy. For us, music is more important than movies or video. Honestly, I lusted for Dolby 5.1, 6.1, then 7.1 surround sound years ago. Then I experience friends' surround sound systems. DSP is impressive technology. Even I get that. However the surround sound formats sound echo-ey to me (as in too much reverberation). For action movies such as Top Gun Maverick they are great. For the music I like such as Nightnoise, Vince Guaraldi, and jazz, no... A friend's higher end Yamaha receiver configured for 6.1 surround sound had all sorts of bells and whistles. He touted, "This is the concert hall in Vienna," then, "This is The Roxy." I did not realize there is a "The Concert Hall in Vienna." Well, there is not. It's Yamaha's impression of a small concert hall. The Roxy, well I've been there. It's a fun place, but the sound system is not really impressive, at least in my opinion. At home we listen to a pair of JBL C38 cabinets loaded with D131 woofers and 075 bullet tweeters. They were my Dad's and were purchased in 1955, possibly earlier. A Velodyne ULD-12 sub handles the low bass. The sound is great with music. It sounds great with movies too, at least in my opinion. By the way, I enjoy the music you play on your videos. It sounds fantastic through vintage JBL's.
Paul H.
Huntington Beach, CA USA
Atmos is not a DSP and is nothing like the Yamaha sound modes. It absolutely brings music to life and is the best format to listen to it in IMO (if it is recorded and mixed correctly)
I have a 5.1.2 ceiling bouncer system and love the multi channel sound of music much better than stereo. I do wish there were more titles in Atmos because they sound wonderful.
As an early Atmos adopter, I have meanwhile transformed my living room into a theater room with a 7.1.4 (+ 2 in-couch bass shakers) setup (yes, I have the perfect wife.. :D ) and although great-quality stereo recordings can fill the listening space immensely, there is something magical in being enveloped by a properly-mixed Atmos track. I feel like sitting inside giant headphones, a sublime musical bubble, and for me, it is worth the hassle of filling the room with speakers. It is added value, an elevation of the experience. And the most important thing is that there are enough tracks for me to not be able to listen to all of them as there are other things beside listening to music in life :D So the hundreds of Atmos tracks are more than enough for the occasional listening session. Apple's curated genre-specific Atmos track lists are VERY helpful for discovering new content on a weekly basis.
You tell the wife what to do, not the other way round bubba 🤡
Interesting that one of things that got me interested in Atmos was listening to Atmos demos on my 5.1 system. Fact is though, I would be happy with that without going to the trouble and expense of an actual system. I can understand your enjoyment of it however. Did you go with actual ceiling speakers?
I love everything about this video. Thanks so much John. ❤
Great topic, thanks! I have just moved to Atmos after 50 years of stereo in my main listening room. I now run two significant stereo rooms and one Atmos / Immersive room. The Atmos setup is Anthem AVM 90 processor and Genelec / Perlisten, (9.6.4) a significant cost and two days setup and calibration. The main room has acoustic treatment and RT60 ~400ms but is a smallish room and never worked well with big sounding recordings, reflections though small, were too quick. I could not make a small room sound big. While Atmos / Immersive audio is a mixed bag, it can make my small room sound much larger and less claustrophobic. I still love stereo, but Atmos can be seriously next level and stereo processed as immersive is usually more engaging. I have been an FM radio station engineer and announcer. I've built studios and PA systems and mixed live bands.
I have a “proper” Dolby Atmos speaker setup including a very nice stereo pair at the front. For music I prefer the sound just from the stereo pair over Spatial Audio. The stereo mix tends to have better soundstage, detail and dynamics while the Spatial Audio is great for gimmicky separation, like placing a choir behind you.
On the other hand the Taylor Swift Eras concert sounds awesome in Atmos.
Dolby today reminds me of the quadraphonic era in the 70’s. There again, the music industries “new thing.” it failed because of the need for expensive equipment, also there were a myriad formats (not a problem for Dolby). Also, most bands of the time didn't embrace it, with the exception of the Allman Brothers.
Cinephile here, with full Atmos and more.... Also Audiophile. I have some SACDs which have 5.1, kinda fun but mostly a gimmick, which is where I pretty much see most Atmos music.... Cool, fun, but does it immerse you, or have you noticing the effects, which pulls you our of the experience?
Great for Films/TV, but really the concert experience would be having some lemon having a drunk conversation over your shoulder 🙄
Interestingly no mention of car audio in the poll as manufacturers are seeming down the multipoint speaker systems!
thank you for the sound quality of this video !
This conversation is mind boggingly outside my price range, but fascinating nonetheless!!
Just the vlog on Atmos I needed , thank you !
So there's something you get wrong here technically, around 14:00 when talking about compression of audio content for playing over Bluetooth on headphones. Atmos is an object based codec, and the lossless Atmos file may very well be a very large file size. However, if it's being played over headphones, which is by definition only 2 channels, the mix is being converted to a 2 channel file on your phone and then transmitted over bluetooth, so it doesn't need to carry all the data a 10 channel file would, only a fifth of that (and that again isn't exactly true because you can still compress data losslessly, it's basic information theory, depends on the actual information content or entropy in the data in the first place). That criticism would be more valid if you were streaming over bluetooth a 10 channel file, which doesn't every happen since the object to channel based conversion or decoding happens in the AVR and is never transmitted over Bluetooth. Just figured you'd want to know how it works.
I loved Floyd on SACD. I was selling home theater systems when it came out. Between customers I would go into the sound room and repeat the album over and over. I wonder what Floyd sounds like is quadraphonic analog tape.
I love surround music. Concerts are a great source of them.
But you need a good home theatre set up to get the best from surround formats.
Time from Dark Side of the Moon on SACD is life changing.
Exactly, and there are so many other multichannel SACDs that exist; it's like reliving the same catalog. Humans perceive music from all directions, not just in stereo. In the past, technology was limited to tapes and CDs, so that limitation made sense.
loving this ATMOS content!
Absolutely excellent content , some of the very best on YT
Thank you 👍🥂
HI, I'm a full time mixing engineer here in Nashville. A few things to add. Does the great new versions atmos "super stereo" tracks sound great because the panning/atmos or because they've been re-mixed and its fresh, new, and cleaner due to newer technologies? As for future titles? At the start, in 2019, labels were paying for Atoms remixes of the catalogs by top mix engineers, but then they quickly made their own atmos mix rooms and hired kids out of school to redo them for $20/hour following a formula (must have a min of 12 objects... ) Soon top audio engineers that built rooms for it and changed everything in their business around, paying 6figures to add the systems, found that Atmos mixing is now less than 20% of their work, and no one was willing to pay extra for an atoms mix, instead want it included in the normal stereo mix fee.
When I got into music, I was promised there would be no math with decimal points.
Better than needing FRACTIONS to deal with music. My head would explode.
I use Dolby Atmos for headphones and I never have it turned off. For gaming, music, and movies, I absolutely love it.
Look forward to the side by side comparison of the speakers in the back ground 🙌😄
Thank you John for the videos and your wise words
The point made in the video about convenience says it all. I'm not that old, but I've lived through the transition from analog to digital to compressed audio, and each of those transitions brought *extremely* tangible benefits to me. I went from a stack of okay-sounding mixtapes that were inconvenient to skip through, to excellent-sounding CDs that I could easily skip through and didn't need rewinding, but were dubiously portable at best and took up shelves of space, to a decent mix of the former two with MiniDisc, to finally my entire music collection in my pocket via my iPod, and now streaming services on my phone. Each of these advances required usually one new modestly priced piece of gear for me to partake, and in the process I went from meh sound quality to shelves of CDs to all of my music in my pocket. These are all low-cost, high-reward, easily accessible benefits for literally anyone who listens to music. Supposing I even liked the Atmos mixes I've heard... I'm supposed to fill my small apartment with expensive speakers, make probably 5 neighbours hate my guts, all so I can get a bit more directionality out of my music?
I'm not an audiophile at all and more of a headphones and portable-first listener anyway. But, after listening to even the generally well-received Atmos mixes on my AirPods Pro 2... I'm still getting strong 3D TV vibes from this. Even taking the most charitable view I can, Atmos for music seems like an expensive indulgence to furnish suburban man-caves, or an occasional novelty for people listening on AirPods. ETA: Or, a nice-to-have for people who have Atmos systems built for cinema anyway.
Fascinating video. Really looking forward to the Mr Wilson interview.
I am blessed to love Home Theater AND Music, so I was already set when Atmos music became mainstream. Eagles Live on Blu-ray sounds stunning in 7.1.4
This shouldn't be about Atmos. Atmos is just a brand name and a specific way of storing the sound on the disc. Who cares about that. What matters is multichannel music. That can be quadraphonic, 5.1, 7.1 or whatever number of speakers works in your particular room. I have a 5.1 system and it is as much of an improvement over stereo as stereo is over mono. A lot of people already have 5.1 systems connected to their TV. They have blu-ray players connected to their TV too. Atmos on headphones or sound bars are kludges. A basic 5.1 system is a bit of work to implement, but it is well worth it. And if you count classical music and legacy quad, and 5.1 music and 5.1 live concerts on video, that is a pretty big library. Multichannel audio requires remixing from the original sessions tapes. That doesn't exist any more for a lot of older music, and it isn't economically viable to go to the expense of a full remix of Lawrence Welk's greatest hits. But current albums are recorded and mixed digitally with plenty of separate channels, and from now on, it won't be a big deal to knock out a multichannel mix. The last thing is DSPs. There are sophisticated signal processing simulations built into multichannel A/V receivers that can make stereo music sound great on a 5.1 or Atmos system. You don't have to buy your CDs again to get room filling sound. I play all music that way on my system. Ask someone who already has a multichannel playback system in their home theater to listen to your Atmos blu-ray. They will tell you it is amazing.
Man, i'm a steady lurker of your content. Even when I don't actually am interested in the topic that's discussed.
I turned on the Dolby Atmos on my phone speakers and it really took this watching experience to a whole new level.
When the consumer version of Dolby Atmos first became available ten years ago, it never occurred to me that it would be used for anything but movies. If I want "multi-channel surround" I'll go with an SACD or an old Quadrophonic recording remastered for Dolby 5.1. But in what situation would you listen to music coming at you from all directions? Laserium in a planetarium, maybe? Not in a concert hall. Not even in most normal high-end recording studios. It's a nifty gimmick for engineers to play around with for your "immersive" home listening experience, but it's not "re-creating" any real-world experience.
I think ATMOS has much to offer music listeners, and many of these benefits do not require a 7.2.4 (or greater) setup. The most important benefit comes from the center channel. A good stereo system will create a phantom center image, but only for the person sitting in the sweet spot. Listeners seated on the left or right side of the room won’t hear that effect. Dolby extracts the left/right signals equal in volume and redirects them to the center channel. That true center channel benefits listeners at any location. Dolby lets you set it to narrow, which is best for a single vocalist, or wide, for larger center items such as a piano. The wide setting leaves some of the signal in the main speakers. Nearly all speaker reviews emphasize the importance of imaging, so I’m surprised to have never seen anyone review speakers in a 3.0 or 3.1 system.
The next most important benefit from ATMOS is how well it extracts ambiance from stereo recordings. While there are only a relative handful of albums mixed in ATMOS currently, its algorithm does an excellent job of extracting ambiance from any live recording. That includes nearly all classical albums, many jazz ones, and some of the most enjoyable albums of many other categories. A good example of a rock song that sounds much more realistic on an ATMOS system is Bruce Springsteen’s "I'm on Fire." I have both 5.1.0 and 7.2.6 systems. Having height speakers does add to the sound of ambiance, but given the high added expense, I recommend that music-only listeners hear that difference for themselves before making a purchase decision. That applies even to albums that were mixed in ATMOS.
Have you ever heard Electrostatic speakers? They can make ir so it seems there is a center even if there isnt
@@HARDESTBOOM Yes, I've heard several brands of electrostatics & I liked them all. But the center image is only heard in the sweet spot halfway between them.
Here are some of my favorite ATMOS tracks from Apple Music:
Introit benedicta sit Monks Of The Abbey Of Notre Dame Gregorian Chant Classical
Fly Me to the Moon (feat. Count Basie and His Orchestra) Frank Sinatra Nothing But the Best (Remastered) Jazz
Danse macabre, Op. 40, R. 171 (Transcr. for Solo Violin and Chamber Orchestra) Daniel Hope & Zürcher Kammerorchester Dance! Classical
Love Shack The B-52's Cosmic Thing Pop
Royals Lorde Pure Heroine Alternative
Riders On the Storm The Doors The Very Best of The Doors Rock
All the Small Things blink-182 Enema of the State Rock
Shape of You Ed Sheeran ÷ (Deluxe) Pop
Bohemian Rhapsody Queen Greatest Hits (1981 UK Edition) Rock
bad guy Billie Eilish WHEN WE ALL FALL ASLEEP, WHERE DO WE GO? Alternative
Rocket Man (I Think It's Going to Be a Long Long Time) Elton John Honky Château Pop
Wild Child The Black Keys Dropout Boogie Alternative
Feel It Still Portugal. The Man Woodstock Alternative
Bach: The Cello Suites - Recomposed by Peter Gregson - Suite No. 1 in G Major, BWV 1007: III. Courante Peter Gregson, Richard Harwood, Reinoud Ford, Tim Lowe, Ben Chappell & Katherine Jenkinson Bach: The Cello Suites - Recomposed by Peter Gregson Classical Crossover
Moanin' Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers Moanin' Jazz
BOOM Tiësto & Sevenn BOOM - Single Dance
Sweet Caroline (Single Version) Neil Diamond All-Time Greatest Hits Pop
I Won't Back Down Tom Petty Full Moon Fever Rock
Free Fallin' Tom Petty Full Moon Fever Rock
Time Pink Floyd The Dark Side of the Moon (50th Anniversary) [Remastered] Rock
Money Pink Floyd The Dark Side of the Moon (50th Anniversary) [Remastered] Rock
Take On Me a-ha Hunting High and Low (Deluxe Edition) Pop
Wouldn't It Be Nice The Beach Boys Pet Sounds Rock
Live And Let Die Paul McCartney & Wings Live And Let Die - Single Rock
Get Lucky Daft Punk, Pharrell Williams & Nile Rodgers Random Access Memories (10th Anniversary Edition) Pop
Stressed Out twenty one pilots Blurryface Alternative
Low Rider War Greatest Hits 2.0 Rock
Surfer Girl The Beach Boys Surfer Girl Rock
About Damn Time Lizzo Special Pop
Exodus Bob Marley & The Wailers Legend - The Best of Bob Marley & The Wailers (2002 Edition) Reggae
Time in a Bottle Jim Croce You Don't Mess Around With Jim Singer/Songwriter
Paint It Black The Rolling Stones Aftermath Rock
Undercover Of The Night (2009 Remaster) The Rolling Stones Undercover Rock
Moondance Van Morrison Moondance Rock
Space Oddity (2019 Mix) David Bowie Space Oddity (2019 Mix) Rock
Way Down Yello Point Pop
Computer Love (Live) Kraftwerk 3-D: The Catalogue (Live) Electronic
Round Side: Seamless Solar Spheres of Affection Mix: Movement 1 The Orb & David Gilmour Metallic Spheres In Colour Electronic
Round Side: Seamless Solar Spheres of Affection Mix: Movement 2 The Orb & David Gilmour Metallic Spheres In Colour Electronic
Flat Side: Seamlessly Martian Spheres of Reflection Mix: Movement 3 The Orb & David Gilmour Metallic Spheres In Colour Electronic
Flat Side: Seamlessly Martian Spheres of Reflection Mix: Movement 4 The Orb & David Gilmour Metallic Spheres In Colour Electronic
Feel Like Making Love / Night Crawler Bob James Feel Like Making LIVE! Jazz
The Court (In-Side Mix) Peter Gabriel i/o (In-Side Mix) Rock
I was listening to Remain in Light the other day which I have in various formats but this time I was on Apple Music and the stream was Dolby Atmos. I was listening on my HiFi (2CH stereo) and to compare, switched to my CD copy after. Of the two, I found the Dolby Atmos stream much more enjoyable with more texture and layering. As you say, we are at the mercy of the engineers who create these mixes and that seems to have way more influence on how much I enjoy a track than the pipe it is sent down.
I own all the Beatles super deluxe box sets that include Blu-ray audio discs. I also own the Pink Floyd Dark side of the Moon 50th anniversary box. I personally love the Dolby Atmos mixes included in these sets. I listen exclusively with Bose QC Ultra headphones in wired mode. For me it's all about the mix. I've tried them all, Dolby, DTS, 5.1, Stereo etc. I always come back to the Atmos mix as my preferred listening experience. I saw a reference to quadraphonic in the comments. My personal favorite vinyl copy of The Dark Side of the Moon is an SQ Quadraphonic European pressing I bought in the 70's. That mix has many unique elements not present on any of my stereo copies regardless of the format. Thanks for the very interesting topic. Sincerely Tim
Ya I have the Floyd box set and ya it’s amazballs! 🍻
Thanks for making this content
John, thank you for this comment on Atmos (and Steven Wilson, whom I really adore)... I can only say: everything is right, but I am a fan of Atmos AND hifi stereo. Over years there has not been a standard for surround mixes of music, now there is finally Atmos.I have a "boxy" living room, optimization of echoes in the room is difficult. But I LOVE Atmos content, e.g. the versions of Pink Floyds Dark Side Of The Moon provided by Apple Music or Steven Wilsons Harmony Codex. Listening to those with a Yamaha AV Receiver with a 7.2.1 System (i have upfiring speakers from Monitor Audio in the front and AVM mono amplifiers for supporting the main speakers by BW) is so immersive, I don´t dare to listen to some content in stereo anymore, because to me it would mean a considerable loss of enjoyment. I have a couple of Atmos blue rays (Marillion, SW, Hans Zimmer, Peter Gabriel and others). Especially the live music acts are so much better than in stereo when it comes to atmosphere.
Cool Amphion speakers in that Berlin studio..
great video and very well explained ☺️☺️☺️
Excellent excellent excellent analysis.
I guess it's just the icing on the cake for people who already have the hardware for their home theatre setup
Fantastic video! Steven Wilson is a genius and his solo work is epic. Looking forward to video with SW soon!
Great video John, hope you’re keeping well.
I LOVE Dolby Atmos for my films, it can make a huge difference to the experience.
With music, there are certainly albums on Apple which are amazing with Atmos and it’s a very exciting field.
I really believe that those Dolby atmos mixes will be an only headphone thing for home users. The technology to get an atmos like listening experience in headphones is pretty impressive in my opinion already and will only get better and the real atmos experience is only really feasible in studios oder cinema.
I might be inclined to agree. If there is one thing from an audiophile standpoint that I have never explored over the years, it is headphones. I think the main reason for that is probably because I paid all this money for a multi channel system and the minute I put headphones on, half of it goes to waste.
But as years go by, I get more tempted to put some money into a high end pair of phones. This might give me the incentive to take that plunge.
I've had dolby 5.1 since the 90's, putting in a couple of celling speakers only took an hour or 2 no big deal. Atmos for movies is a big step up from 5.1. I'd never use bouncy house speakers 😔. I still run a complelty seperate stereo rig for music.
I have a 5.1 set up; but linking appletv box to the receiver that can decode atmos - gives quite a rich experience when the mix is done properly. This is essentially SACD (taking out the compression aspects) coming over the stream. I am rediscovering some of the tracks through this format. When listening on headphones, I religiously avoid atmos/spatial audio but for playing on surround sound set up has been a pretty good experience.
Yes, it is very important to hear as the piano or drums fly ABOVE YOUR HEAD! :)
The Lexicon of Love from ABC...a monumental MASTERPIECE!!!!!
Album Years podcast is so good. their knowledge of the last 50 years of recorded music is exceptional.
Dolby Atmos is primarily intended for movies and thus there are far more movies availably in Dolby Atmos. I guess that people hwo own a Dolby Atmos system chose this system for movie playback. It is not a businesscase for the consumer whether to invest in Dolby Atmos for music playback, but more a businesscase for the musicproducers whether there are enough movie lovers who are also willing to invest in Dolby Atmos music mixes. I personally love movies and music with great sound quality. At home I invested in a hardware setup which integrates a 5.1 home theater setup and a 2.1 stereo setup by using a dedicated stereo-setup consisting of a preamplifier with a home theater throughput and a stereo amplifier. For hometheater use with movies I coupled this with a Denon AVR, which drives the subwoofer, center speaker and rear speakers. That is how far I ever will go, mostly because I don't want to invest in ceiling speakers. This is still far better than using a state of the art soundbar. By the way; I never listen to surround stereo mixes. Occasionally I watch a concert dvd/blueray with surround sound.
Enjoyed listening to you and your topic, I am 76 years and have memories of how stereo was becoming A THING and what a wonderful experience and major breakthrough it was so it is interesting to me to witness what appears to be an evolution in our ability to further manipulate our experience of sound. COOL 😎
Love the content and this video! I also love Benn's video and his content. I have a lot of experience with Atmos from the production perspective, but less so from the hi-fi perspective so this was cool to see. One quick note/correction though: Spatial Audio on Apple Music is compressed mainly to fit down the streaming pipe, not the bluetooth one. The music will still be lossy compressed when listening with wired devices. Keep up the great work :)
2 channel for life. Multichannel audio sets off something in my brain that switches from enjoying the music to trying to analyze all the sounds coming from any and all directions
A child of a lesser God eh 😂😂😂
I may have some kind of madness, but I have installed two ceilingspeakers for music listening in a 4.1.2 setup with Yamahas MusicCast wireless as surrounds. Apple Music lossless from Apple TV connected to the AVR gives a wide range of albums and songs in Atmos. Beyond most modern realeases many older material is in Atmos, as Beatles, Elton John, Van Morrison etc, and these mixes sounds clearly better in Atmos than in stereo. For example Beatles Eleanor Rigby: in stereo you listen to the string quartet, and in Atmos the quartet sits around you, few would prefer the stereo versions in direct comparison. But some material, as AC/DC, is thankfully not mixed in Atmos, they have to be played in stereo:). I’m glad that we have the possibility to listen to music in Atmos mixes, and when Apple is driving the train I think Atmos is here to stay for music too.
Your (stereo) speakers also matter a lot. My dad bought new ones recently and you can literally tell where the instrument is coming from.
Absolutely, the front speakers is by far the most important ones, then you build the system around them.
I've had an AV system in my front room for a number of years now. I run a set of Dali speakers 5.1.2 setup. The atmos speakers I use are the Dali Alteco C-1's. The can be run upward firing, or at the flick of a switch you can mount them high up on your front wall. I found in my room the upward firing mode was useless really, Once I mounted them up front it made a world of difference.
I totally agree with you, even though I do have an Atmos system, I personally I think it makes no sense to have a full atmos system just for music, my primary use is films, but because I have it I could make use of Atmos music. Plus I have my 4k apple TV connected to my AV receiver.
The kind of music I like means that generally I havent been that interested in spatial audio or Atmos. I love ambient music and would love more artists to experement with Atmos or spacial audio.
EDIT: Should point out that I use that system as my primary Hi-Fi system and my turntable is connected to it. But the AV receiver I use has a Direct HiFi mode which I use when listening to music. This uses the two front speakers only and switches off all processing and manipulation of the signal, passing it direct to the speakers. Depending on what I'm listening to I will leave the subwoofer active.
Atmos is great for Music.. I find myself with most new releases preferring the Atmos over the stereo version. Artist like Dominque Fils-Aime that is known for great recordings, the Atmos tracks blows the stereo out of the water.
So I would say that if both versions are mixed well, atmos will be the winner due to its capabilities.
I’m not sure if I fully agree on the inconvenience part with having a dedicated setup. If you have room treatment and using a record player you’re already way beyond that word convenient.
Anyway.. no hate on stereo, I just believe the majority hating on music in Atmos actually haven’t heard it in a proper setup.
Darko's math is off on headphone rendering. First off it is NOT a fold-down of many channels to 2 for headphones. Fancy spherical harmonic mathematical formulas creates a 3D sphere that is rendered for 2 ears left and right, binaurally. So Bluetooth is plenty high enough to handle L&R binaural. Just to check to make sure a lossy Apple track competes, I compared a 340 mb Atmos MP4 to the Apple Spatial--and yep, sounded identical.
Building such a system and using an AVR you can upmix any source to use height surround modes like Auro-3d. And you don't need in ceiling speakers, height speakers close to the ceiling are also good.
A friend bought a full Rotel surround system in the late 90s, a massive array of amps and black boxes. The immersive sound from it was mesmerising and I remember the effect of switching from surround to stereo and back again being quite profound. So it can be a great experience, but it is a bit of a fairgound attracton sort of thing. I've had more emotionally involving relationships with a good stereo system. Looking forward to yuor takes from Munich John, thanks.
Looking forward to that conversation as a massive Steven Wilson fan. Both PT and his solo work is always interesting and exciting in some way.
The delay of bouncing surrounds off the ceiling or walls is not a problem. ALL of the channels in an Atmos system are digitally delayed so they time-align correctly, and the calibration process of the Atmos processor adjusts the delays to be correct.
That DOES mean, however, there there is only a small sweet spot in the room where the time alignment will be correct. For movie content it isn't a big issue, because music in movies is usually only sent to the left and right channels, dialog goes mostly to the center channel, and the surrounds are used primarily for other effects (crowd and traffic noise, gun shots, multiple people talking, or whatever else that film is doing directionally) so imperfect alignment isn't a big deal. That's because Atmos mixes are originally created for theaters, where the distances between listeners and speakers are larger and thus any problems with time alignment are magnified compared to home listening.
But for music content where voices and instruments are being sent to locations other than the front plane, it does matter. Things will sound right in the location you used for calibration, and become increasingly incorrect as you move away from it. So at most you'll be able to share the Atmos music experience with a handful of people.
I agree that the expense and difficulty will mean that installing an Atmos system just for music is something that only a few fanatics will do. But much of the listening public has more interest in video content than Mr Darko does, and for them Atmos music could represent a nice bonus use of their Atmos hardware.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video, I didn't even know about SAD's. I really like how you treated your room too, it looks like art and not this chunky foam I'm used to seeing. I don't even use streaming services, I think it's a waste of money, and the free version with all the adds, forget about it. I find I only really like 3 bands right now anyway.
A lot of us already have a great Atmos system setup for movies. It is not hard. It is not rocket science. The best Atmos music I have heard is Dark Side of the Moon. It makes sense and it is an improvement over the stereo version.
Informative.
I guess what matters are the songs. A great movie is still a great movie in mono on a black and white screen. A great song is still a great song on shitty headphones. But if you can add things that will make the experience even better and a good sound engineer knows what he or she is doing, the listeners will benefit from a great atmos mix. But everybody has to decide for themselves, if you are willing to take the extra steps.
Thanks for the entertaining and informative video. The topic reminds me of when my father bought a Sansui QR6500 quadraphonic receiver in 1971 in Germany, with Sansui SP2500 speakers in the front and SP70 in the rear. There were a few coded records. The big rest of all stereo recordings were delegated by Sansui's "4 channel matrix" randomly, but worth listening to. Incidentally, the system is still playing in my old mother's living room today.
It introduced me to the world of hi-fi and, more importantly, to the world of music when I was 12 years old, but I remain a stereo fan to this day. Atmos is a nice, complicated and elaborate gimmick. Didn't 5.1 audio recordings exist 20 years ago that nobody talks about today?
Maybe Atmos is a vanguard, at some point people will have speakers as foils that they can stick anywhere and stick somewhere else again, and a smart AI will replace the elaborate Atmos mix. Then maybe it could get a wider market.
I LOVE spatial audio but only have the room (and goodwill of my spouse) for a 5.1 system. My Atmos mixes (if there is no 5.1 mix available on the media) is downsampled to 5.1 and I enjoy it immensely that way. These sound better than any SACDs I own (although Brothers in Arms always blows me away). I own Blu-Ray, SACD, DVD-Audio, and DTS media, and I love them all - for their sound, rarity, and collectability. I'm very much looking forward to the Steven Wilson interview. He's a legend, but also somehow one of the people. Stevens remixes of Tears for Fears are my favourites. #Peace
Hi mate your new spectacle looks nice 💯
As someone who daily consumes both audio and video content, both via streaming as well as via disc based media, I would like to state (somewhat emphatically) that be it video or audio formatted content, streaming media over the internet via ANY of the popular established platforms is a generally (and sometimes tremendously) unrewarding endeavor, for anyone with discerning taste in either format.
Since we only have two ears, theoretically we should be able to recreate a proper surround setup with headphones. I'm not sure whether bitrate is the limiting factor here, because i doubt that most people who insist on listening to lossless would actually be able to tell a difference in a blind test. Apple Music does offer Dolby Atmos for wired headphones, though (and i believe AirPods offer lossless connection to the Vision Pro, so that might be coming to other devices as well).
That being said, i don't get the need for surround sound in music. If i'm watching a live performance, the musicians are typically positioned in front of me, not around me. And whenever i've tried any of the Spatial Audio mixes on Apple Music, while initially sounding impressive, i vastly preferred the regular stereo mixes when switching back and forth. The stereo mixes always sounded clearer and - ironically - more "immersive".
tl;dr I completely agree that Dolby Atmos for music seems like the next gimmick to upsell us on.
I feel like I have a lot of things to say. I'll try to keep it brief.
1) I don't believe that Dolby Atmos mixes are being made in an effort to get audio enthusiasts to invest in an atmos system. I think they are selling media to home theater enthusiasts who are already equipped to play them.
2) As an audiophile AND home theater enthusiast, I never considered surround mixes as a factor in building my (modest) system. My priorities were a) as close as possible to audiophile stereo reproduction (within my budget) and b) immersive surround for tv and movies. This was not an easy task!
3) Other than the novelty, I'm not convinced that studio albums gain anything from a surround mix. Live performances (concert hall or stadium), sure, I can see that - recreating the space and the experience of being there. But for the vast majority of recordings, a really good stereo image (which does include an element of height and depth) is what most audio nerd/geeks want.
4) Binaural recordings can be wonderful. We've probably all heard at least one example of binaural which really delivers. But very little music is recorded/encoded and released in this way, despite it being a relatively old approach and being reasonably easy to achieve. Ignoring the technicalities of attempting a "one size fits all" HTRF, I think the main reason is that the demand is not really there.
Overall, if I'm being honest, I feel like you've imagined a non-existent push from an industry to consumers, taken a stance on it and looked at some of the worst possible versions of it, declaring them unsatisfying. Personally I think there's more value and mileage in you exploring the point I raised above, about HT receivers/decoders that can also manage a pleasing and nuanced stereo presentation, since that is more likely to be an issue people face.
At the same time, this is your channel, your thoughts and musings are always interesting and who tf am I to say what you should and shouldn't talk about!!!!!
And this was the brief version.....
I think you are disregarding the fact that the people touting Atmos for music don't care about audiophile stereo reproduction. Read the comments. They almost universally prefer Atmos music mixes over stereo. And if you really cared, you probably wouldn't be using an AV receiver to do it, either. And before you say that is harsh, I am doing the same thing.
I think an important fundamental aspect of the Atmos format is being misunderstood here. The format is automatically scaled based on the Atmos compatible receiver being utilized. Atmos sounds great in stereo - adding extra speakers will allow you to experience more of how it was intended to sound, but Atmos audio engineers should be checking the stereo downmixes the same way that stereo audio engineers check how their mixes sound in mono.
Hesitance to adopt a new format makes total sense based on the history of format failures. Ultimately the market decides. I suspect there were many holdouts who didn’t want to replace their turntable and run an extra cable when stereo was first introduced. If I had been around back then I think I would have been as excited for stereo over mono as I am for Atmos now.
I have a 5.1.4 Atmos setup primarily for HT use. For spatial/Atmos music, I always find multi channel stereo sounds way better, so this is my default.
I was an early adopter of both DVD Audio and SA-CD, had a 5.1 system, I'm over it, never going down that path again. My 2 channel system is much more satisfying.
Same here. You’ll always be hunting for the „definitive version“ but will never get it, because it’ll be succeeded by the next big thing.
Finally, something about home theater in like 2 years I watch you ! 😅
Dolby Atmos isn't new, it is an evolution from Dolby Digital that is here since DVD was launched in 1997. That is also an evolution from Dolby Prologic from earlier 90's.
You have a bigger library if you look for all the DVDs of music, concerts, sessions, musicals, all in Dolby Digital or DTS. Including some CDs that are also encoded with DTS since the 90's.
I'm more of a movie buff than a music buff, dunno if I'd spend top bucks on a 7.1.2 system for music, but you know, I've it already for movies 😂
I would love to see you giving more tips for us guys of home theaters world.
Cheers !
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the minefield that is ATMOS. Like most music consumers, this level of complexity exceeds my “effort threshold”, but it’s very useful to know what could be achieved if I wanted to. 👍
Many deep wallet “audiophiles” have dedicated home theaters with superb Atmos set-ups, as well as a dedicated stereo setup. I think they’re the folks who can really enjoy the Atmos mixes. If I had my druthers, I’d have a home theater as well as my stereo… but I don’t have my druthers, my druthers require much more money. Mtydruthers are expensive.
As a 70+ who listened to music on an Amazon puck, streamed apple stuff on a Sonos set up blows me away. I listen to you all the time and enjoy it while most of it like upward firing speakers, floats aimlessly over my head. Thanks anyway.
It definitely feels like certain genres of music could really be elevated by multichannel playback, listening to a stereo Burial album through my surround setup offers fantastic depth. I'll reserve full judgement until hearing a proper orchestral atmos recording.
I really would like to hear church organ music and maybe Jean Michel Jarre music in Dolby atmos would be really nice!
Thanks, John. If I had time & money I would consider adding ceiling speakers. One hundred or so titles could be enough if they are the *right* one hundred! I have around 50 surround discs on SACD, DVD, & BR (from America's Homecoming to XTC's Skylarking & Yes' Fragile, but nobody for letter zee or zed yet) & I play them fairly often in quad & 5 channel sound. More albums continue to trickle in, so it's enough to keep this non-collector music fan happily listening.
There are way more than few hundred titles in Atmos. It’s in the 10s of thousands at least via Apple Music.
I’m running 5.2.4 with an Anthem AVM70 and 9 Emotiva AirMotiv speakers, vintage Sunfire subs and a vintage Velodyne sub.
Tidal Dolby Atmos via AppleTV. In a VERY well treated and corrected room.
I also have the Magnetar UDP800 BluRay player, around 30 DVD-A, 100 SACD and a few dozen Blu-Ray Audio.
The Dolby Surround setting on the Anthem is a very well-crafted mode that distributes stereo sources into the rears and ceiling speakers without sounding “fake”.
I don’t see the big “waste” if you consider the thousands of movies that justify the extra speakers and Atmos format. The ultimate Atmos music experience is via physical media in a room that’s suited for top tier movie viewing. I have scoured as many atmos streaming titles as I can find, and I scoop up the discs when they come out. Yes, my choices are limited, but having the correct environment to get atmos music delivered PROPERLY in an Atmos mix done right is so amazing to me, it’s all worth it.
But as you say, I am in the extreme minority.
Enjoy the show! I wish I could be there.
I agree. Running stereo music through the Dolby Surround up-conversion on modern A/V equipment through an immersive speaker array typically provides an amazing listening experience. The separation and natural sounding reverberation can be almost as 3D and spatial as music actually remixed in Atmos format. The fact that non-Atmos film soundtracks can similarly be enhanced makes the extra speakers and amps well worth it for me.
Well said!!
There are many people, myself included, who have a 2 channel system and a home theatre system. Mine is a combined room that is fully acoustic treated and it is a 7.4.4 system. The 2 channel simply uses a preamp bypass when running the L and R of the home theatre. I didn't build this ATMOS system for music but now I will be able to enjoy another type of experience in music. There are many people that have similar systems so no investment required for atmos music. If you're going to do such statistics at least be fair and include all the movies that benefit from this speaker array, it's not just atmos encoded. We will never agree on streaming, I use Qobuz, but the remastered efforts for streaming should largely, few exceptions, just be binned for the destruction they have inflicted on music.
I have Luca Turilli’s Prometheus in Dolby Atmos and I own a good home cinema and it sounds amazing.
You’re not wrong. The trend is towards listening in tiny monophonic Bluetooth devices not more speakers! When people want good sound quality nowadays, they use earbuds. I just gave my millennial niece a pair of speakers playing through a WiiM mini and 60W Fosi amp and she was blown away by the sound quality that she is hearing in her apartment! And it’s not even nearly great sounding, to me it’s just barely decent. Sad but true.
Same happens here: arilyc b50 + small Yamaha speakers + audiotechnica lp3x just made the magic to my millennials…😂
I really enjoyed all the insights here, having recently installed two height speakers on top of very tall bookcases, giving me a 5.1.2 Atmos set up… I agree about the shortage of content at present, but feel that Dolby Atmos is here to stay, and will get more widespread as time goes on… I’m very much looking forward to your interview with Steven Wilson, and hope you are able to put your questions and concerns to him
I fully agree with you on this topic. To buy 10 speakers or more is exaggerating.
I think 99% of people that listen to music on an atmos system do it because they have an atmos system for movies. I have an atmos system in one room for movies and a two channel stereo system in another room and I enjoy using them both for music listening.
Love your work ,remember when you didnt want a sub woofer either. Keep up the good work .i enjoy the podcast as well
I do! But a sub, like room treatment, augments EVERY album ever released and not just a few hundred Atmos releases.