Thanks for the video. I use my setup (Marantz PM7000N, Wharfedale Evo 4.4s, RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII, Pro-ject X1) mostly for vinyl, but I wanted to try out hi-res because using Airplay with Apple Music didn't sound all that good. I setup a plex server on my PC to feed FLAC to the Marantz, but sourcing FLAC for most of my music was impossible. Still, what I did have sounded much better than Airplay. Since I had an iPad I don't use much anymore, I decided to connect it to the Marantz by going iPad > Apple USB Camera adapter > USB cable > Douk Audio U2 > optical cable > Marantz. It actually works really well and sounds much better than Airplay. The highest I saw from Apple Hi Res Lossless was 192 KHz. Total cost was about $100 USD, and that's including the cables needed, not too shabby.
I bought the FiiO R7 and love it. It plays very well with such a variety of equipment. At the moment it’s feeding a Sansui AU-555A powering a pair of Celestion Ditton 551 and you’d never think there was a fifty year gap between the network streamer and the integrated amplifier / loudspeakers. They sound like contemporary pieces. I also note that the R7 comes with a cushy base that in my view acts as an iso pad which I love. If my R7 fell over and died I’d run right out and buy another one.
Same here. I've yet to hear a Hi Res track or album that sounds significantly better than the Redbook equivalent. It's nice seeing the higher sampling rate and bit depth on the DAC though 😊
@k-doggy1762 certainly me as welll. CD rates through dac to take off sheen and Class A amp at 5 watts. I come for music suggestions for person of different age and he has excellent taste.
Being a Apple Music subscriber the Eversolo is a godsend to me, have messed about with all manor of streaming options but hated having to use AirPlay but now I’m in audio nirvana with my master edition with LHY linear power supply on the way soon. The Eversolo is hands down the best bit of kit I’ve bought in a long time & at a reasonable price can’t recommend it highly enough. I agree the landscape integration of the app on my phone would be better implemented in portrait whilst leaving the display on the dmp A6 landscape, maybe this is something Eversolo can change in a future software update but otherwise I’m more than happy 🙂
To me this just illustrates the lunacy of non-physical media - at least until this stuff matures. Consumers are being asked to pay big money for technology which is immature and may or may not deliver on your expectations. I'll continue to use an iPhone, Spotify and wireless headphones for discovery - and a turntable and a CD player for focussed listening.
I can only hope you keep beating this drum, John. Perhaps Apple will pay proper attention in time. This Airplay conundrum can only ultimately be solved when Apple itself allows bit perfect play over its WiFi attributes. For example, it’s become a bit of an insult that I can’t stream Roon Arc bit-perfect while wirelessly tethering a MojoPoly combo to my iPhone or iPad. It’s always downsampled to the Airplay default. More insulting, I can actually play the Poly’s micro SD stored content, bit-perfect from the iOS device into any lightning-connected dongle or DAC, yet the Poly itself can only receive the same downsampled output… mind you, originating from the same uncompressed, incoming files the iOS device receives from it. Why Chord didn’t design the Poly to direct play it’s SD files into the Mojo is a whole other problem I’ll only mention as such. A unique set of problems, I admit, but being mobile for weeks at a time, it would be quite nice to have a more robust wireless pipeline in both directions, such as it is with the Nucleus on the home network. Meantime, I remain optimistic these limitations will be removed in time. And truthfully, I’m grateful for what have already. The Poly’s tethering feature has solved a greater wireless problem I’ve found quite consistent with Bluetooth connectivity across the board: Random, frequent dropouts, constantly interrupting the music… largely due to its management protocols of other connected devices. Compared to that, I’ll happily take AAC or Redbook FLAC (whichever it is) all day long. BTW, love the podcast too!
Loves this video. The major problem I have with Apple music for Android, is that it doesn't have soundcheck, volume normalization which is essential. I know some people don't like it, but the fact that nearly every streaming service (besides of apple music) have that, is the reason why we got back more dynamic range in modern masters. I love high dynamic range songs, but when a loud song is next on the playlist, apple music kills my ears. I really wonder why this is not a huge topic for audio lovers, who use apple music and android devices.
I recently updated the Hi-fi setup in my office. I went the Eversolo route and got the master edition. The Eversolo is a wonderful bit of kit. I looked at the Fio, but preferred the form factor, internal nvme, and remote functions of the Eversolo - plus......VU meters! :D Stupid, but I bloody love having VU meters again. ;) The other thing I was looking for was multiple inputs and outputs as this is my office and I wanted to connect my PC, output to a headphone DAC. The Eversolo is also amazing in what it can connect to and receive. In the end I got the Eversolo, connected to a Power Box DS2 Amp, feeding a pair of Fyne Audio F500. I'm in the stage where I'm listening to all my favourites again with a big smile on my face. Only thing I havent figured out how to get working yet is the Zen DAC V2 for my headphones. Haven't sorted out how to configure and get that working. But your review of the Fio and Eversolo were a massive help in deciding what to go for. Thank you. :)
as an apple user i just use my 100$ apple tv for streaming and my iphone or ipad as a remote controller for apple tv music. no third party apps. the apple tv is connected via LAN with my network, the audio goes through HDMI 2.1 to the TV and from the TV per TOSLink to my DAC. if you want 24bit/192khz all the time thats not the solution, but i get 24bit/48khz for cheap and its a simple easy to manage solution. my loudspeakers are the Buchardt A500 and it sounds great
Don’t understand why Apple does not add the necessary software to their Apple TV OS to support highest quality hi res playback from their own Apple Music app. That is what I have waiting for to stream highest quality music to my hi fi setup. Would be seamless and all in the Apple ecosystem. 🧐
Can we PLEASE have more stuff that just works. Having to jump through all the hoops that sooo many products make us do just to get the damn thing to work gets really old very quickly. I remember with great fondness, the utter joy of switching on my amp and CD player, putting a disc in the tray, pressing play, and enjoying the music. Why do we have so much faffing about now with apps and compatibility issues? AAAGGHHHH!
I own and use the newest Apple TV 4K which is connected to my Denon AV-Receiver. It actually does switch the sample rate between 48 kHz and 44.1 kHz depending on the source. I guess Apple implemented that feature at some point in the last weeks or months. Unfortunately the Denon AV-Receiver only shows the input sample rate but not the bit depth so I can only assume that it also switches between 16 and 24 Bit depending on the source. I love this setup for its simplicity and I don't care much about Hi-Res. And to all the other Apple TV users: Go into the "Music" app settings and activate lossless streaming. It's set to AAC by default.
@@circattle I think @darko Audio needs to test that assumption in part 3 ;) He can throw in Apple Music via the Apple TV as an additional and AirPlay to an AirPlay 1 endpoint.
Thanks for going deep on this topic, Darko. Apple shouldn’t make it this hard to enjoy hi-res lossless sound from Apple Music. This video should be pinned at the top when people Google search this topic.
I became obsessed trying to find an affordable solution for streaming bit perfect lossless audio to the point where it was maddening. In the end, I bought a Wiim Mini which cost me around $80 USD. IMO, the difference in sound quality over more expense solutions just isn't worth the time or the hassle.
If you want CD quality lossless (bit perfect) over AirPlay 2, you must set the volume to max on your iOS device. In a Mac, you must set the overall volume to max as well. After that, you can adjust your volume on your preamp or whatever.
I’m really curious if most audiophiles could consistently differentiate between CD quality and Hi Res. I mean just look at the whole MoFi vinyl debacle.
Getting that " 96K" to pop up is so satisfying...you know the best way to do that? LDAC bluetooth!😅 I can send music from my phone or tablet to the BlueMe Pro, digital PCM into a nice DAC, plug in your favorite amp and speakers, just enjoy the music. The little display shows 96k and that's how I know it sounds good😅
I believe that the real plus from "high Res" is about / from the bits Depth i.e. 24 or 32 bits, for greater Dynamics in particular. Sampling Rate of 44kHz, I believe, is good enough.
If the R7 and A6 are Airplay 1, can you just simply Airplay and not bother with the casting app/Android Apple Music? I'm dying to figure out how to lossless streaming with Apple Music.
Streaming, more convenient, apparently. 😉 But so many gotchas, gizmos, software, dependencies, conversions, compatibility issues. I'll stick to CD in my listening room, and streaming for office/headphones.
AppleLossless Switcher App for MacOS. It controls the MIDI output for bit-perfect HI-Res lossless audio streaming via USB cable to an external DAC/Amp. Solved.
Does the Lossless Switcher still audibly glitch when the sample rate changes? It used to. If it still does, many people would consider this not yet 'solved'.
Argon Solo is also a Chromecast unit, it can play Apple music through Google Home app controlled by iPhone at least at 16/44 (not AAC) . Argon streamer/dac can handle Hi-res, but I don't know if Google app limit the stream. Why I wrote this anyway, because Argon Solo (250€) sounds better to me than Eversolo Dac Z8.
Yes, indeed. As an old geezer musician/recording engineer, I can’t hear above 12khz so the sampling frequency isn’t important to me anymore. Only my dog. But the higher bit resolution is something that is very apparent.
Thanks for the info here. With all the streaming options available and all the specs it’s a bit overwhelming. You are helping me to understand. Btw digging your pod casts. All the best.
I have a small box connected to my Apple TV 4k that exacts an optical toslink signal from HDMI, feeding an ifi nano iOne into a Cambridge Audio AXA-35, and Wharfedale Diamond 12.1. Good enough for me listening for hours without any fatigue.
Surely if you have a streaming amp hardwired to Apple Music via ethernet, it gets the full noise, right? My Hegel H95 has no WiFi connection, but has ethernet hooked up. I use my iPhone as the controller (AirPlay2). HiFi salesman assured me the phone is just the controller, the amp gets full hi-res audio directly from Apple Music via ethernet, because the phone sends an address to the amp which tells it where to find the direct stream, allowing original high-res encoding. It's an expensive amp, so I sure hope that is the case. Anyway, thanks for the video Darko.
What’s going on inside macOS (probably many other operating systems also) is not just resampling the audio, but it is actually mixing other system sounds with the music. If you get some kind of a notification when music is playing you will hear both. Until Apple implements exclusive mode that exists in other software such as roon or the tidal app, this will continue being a problem even if someone keeps changing the sample rate manually
The quest for bit-perfect lossless music, as intended by the artist/recording studios is driving me crazy, not to mention how Dolby Atmos sometimes mess it up. I wish all these didn’t bother me, but i just can’t… so the quest continues….
I have been looking at quite a number of videos to see how I can get Lossless and High Rez from my iPhone’s Apple Music into my (old fashioned) stereo integrated amp. I think I’ll stick to my current method: a spare older iPhone XS, attached to a Dragonfly and a 10 feet 3.5 mm cable into the Aux In on my amplifier. I just have to be careful not to trip over the cable on the floor.
when i connect my Windows PC using apple Music on windows, with HDMI to my AVR I get 24 bit/192Khz. But when i use USBC HDMI adapter for my iPad connected to my AVR, it is limited to 48Khz
I have been a an Apple user from the beginning and I like my iPhone and the Apple ecosystem overall but when it comes to music I found them too difficult to work with to get the experience I was looking for. For this reason I’ve opted to go with Amazon Music in that I find it has better sound quality than Spotify, nearly the same catalog, and can work with my other devices for high(er) res streaming like the Wiim Pro Plus. Maybe one day Apple will get its act together.
I just wanna know how to be sure im getting full 24bit 196kHz sample rate through to my Sennheiser Headphones at bit perfect, and at impedance matched. Haha
I use an iPhone wired into a chord mojo, then into the amp. Hi-res no problem. It’s simple and works superbly. Maybe not the most elegant, but it’s about the music isn’t it?
Even though I despise Apple's business model, the fact that I live in Taiwan only allows me to play either Spotify and/or Apple Music, as Tidal and all the other platforms are not available in Taiwan at this time... so I use Spotify and Apple Music. In wanting to keep costs down during the COVID-19 debacle, my solution was to buy an iPod Touch 7th generation - yes, I know it's been discontinued, but I'm sure you can still find used ones out there, if you look... I run my iPod Touch through an AudioQuest Dragonfly Cobalt, into a Little Dot Mk II as a pre-amp, then into the rest of my system... It's not much to look at, but it sounds great and most importantly, it allows me to receive the Hi-Res music that I'm looking for when listening to Apple Music - skipping all the bugaboos and other aggravating problems that Dark Audio has been discussing in this and previous episodes... Great video - much appreciated and enjoyed...!!!
Thank you for the excellent explanation. I really enjoy your direction. I’m a senior citizen and 50 year audiophile with interests this video address. My current streaming situation is all in with Apple, Qobuz and BlusSound Node 2i. Believe I’ll follow one of your thoughts and add a standalone DAC to my Node 2i. Always eager for your next video and podcast.
Hi John, just and FYI, there is a “Plug and Play” Linear power supply now available for the Eversolo made by Beatechnik. The model # is LPS-A6… just in case you wanted to do an apples to apples comparison in the future.
Sorry John. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, this video was exactly what I was looking for so thank you for making it. I may have misunderstood you. I thought you mentioned preferring the sound of the Fiio (when fed by their PL50 linear power supply) over the sound of the Eversolo. I shouldn’t have mentioned an apple to apples comparison as in hindsight, I can see that comes across as a critique and that was not my intention at all. I only wanted to let you know that recently an upgraded linear power supply had become available for the Eversolo as well. Definitely not intending to criticize at all. I love your work and it’s extremely informative and helpful in enjoying my hobby. Thank you, Dan
@@danielgoodman7881 Don't worry mate I understood what you meant. An apples to apples sound comparison since John places an emphasis in the outboard PSU making the Fiio sound better over the Eversolo to his ears. The reply sadly speaks volumes. Disappointing because as you can from his review of the Eversolo with 235k views (one of his most viewed videos recently along with the Sony Walkman video) people would be interested in his views on its impact to the Eversolo sound.
Great video, as a sometimes Apple Music user, thank you. I say sometimes because, on my main system and on my home office system I use Roon. Of course, my dream is to cut through all of the work arounds that you identified and have Apple and Roon get it together!!
Only "but", dear John, is: for how long will the manufacturers provide support so the players get updates to at least a reasonable "recent" version of android and thus access to Google Play and a version of Apple music that can access apple's catalog? Can't the EU make Apple open up their walled garden, like they did with USB-C?
I have an old Mac Mini (headless) coupled with an external dac connected to my amplifier. I use the (free) Lossless Switcher app that changes the Audio Midi output settings on the fly depending on the bitrate of the music playing on Apple Music. That way I always have the right bitrate/frequency playing to the dac. You can use the remote app on your ipad or screen sharing app on another mac to control Apple Music on the Mini.
Currently using an Apple TV 3rd gen streaming Apple Music via HDMI out into a Levinson 502 surround processor using the Harman Karden Logic 7 surround processing this is a great way to listen to Apple Music and it sounds fantastic even if its not bit perfect
Would love to see Darko cover the state of apps for MacOS and iOS for playing music, such as audirvana, Roon (again), Doppler and the like. There's a small but thriving ecosystem for all kinds of music listeners.
Also, you can connect an iPhone (I have 14) with a cable to the dac and control it with your Apple Watch. This way you get 192/24 even in streaming. I also browse Apple Music with my iPad and when I add an album, it become instantly visible on the Apple Watch/iphone... these are ways to avoid buying a 1k device for me.
@@DarkoAudio I'm an Apple fanboy so I had those for other purposes anyway. Did you try jogging with the Eversolo? :)). I have also a mojo 2, so it is a wast of money to buy Eversolo or A7 for me....About downloading on the device before transmitting to AirPlay 2... have you tried that? I agree that Apple make lossless streaming pretty complicated.
My Apple TV shows up in my IOS control center airplay menu under the "control other speakers and tv's" dropdown. Once it is chosen you can jump into the Apple Music app and navigate/control playback as if you were remote controlling the target device and it's pulling it's own direct stream. Perhaps the next dive down the Apple Music rabbit hole should explore what the IOS app is doing vs the target device. I'm curious to figure out if the stream is still being relayed through the IOS device or truly being pulled direct from the target device with the IOS device as the controller. Also curious as to what sample rates are capable and if they're bit perfect. Apple should enable this remote capability for all devices that are an airplay target.
Well as I understand it , the easiest way to play Hi Res Apple Music is to use an IPad Pro or IPhone 15 Pro with usb C output connected to any DAC or DDC via USB B. Firstly you don’t need the stupid camera adaptor which degrades the music quality. The Iphone 15 Pro works better cuz you can use an Iwatch to remotely control your IPhone. That allows you to then use any DDC or DAC of your choice and not limited to a Fiio or Eversolo. That is the best way to listen to Hi Res Apple Music, for me anyway.
@@razisn I have seen in the mkt some lightning to USB B cables by Chinese brands. Dunno if it works. Otherwise you need a camera adaptor and that is not a good solution for sound quality. I have tried all 3 options - older IPad/Iphone with adaptor ; Mac Mini connected to DAC/ DDC ; IPhone 15 Pro with USB C to USB B to DAC/DDC. And it is very discernible that the last option provides the best sound quality hands down.
Wait, help.. all this time I thought Apple airplay on my phone to the Bluesound Node on my receiver will give me lossless quality? Is this not true? I was about to buy it after so much saving and research.
No. Not lossless. Resampled. Another option is a DAP that uses bit-perfect Android work arounds. I have a Hiby R6 Pro II that I use the usb out to SPDIF that feeds into my Gustard R26. Sounds amazing!
I have a Hiby R6 V3 with Apple Music and it does lossless and hires bit perfectly (thanks to the same re-working done by Fiio) obviously via wired headphones. I can connect it to my DAC or headphone amp via USB , but sadly it stops any streaming apps from working and only allows plaback os my stored music.
You need a special USB to SPDIF cable to feed your DAC. [I think Hiby makes one.] I use my R6 Pro II with this cable into my Gustard R26 and it works perfectly! Hope this helps...
This investigation is a true public service. On a tangential note, I’ve since replaced my AirPlay 2 AirPort Express with a first gen AirPlay 1 AirPort Express. Enjoying AirPlay as originally intended…losslessly.
@@mongo2044 Hi, do you know if I can downgrade one Airport’s firmware to reactivate AirPlay 1, leave the rest of my network AirPorts on the latest firmware? The AirPort Express gen 1 A1264 only cost me $10, and I still have the newest AirPort Express pulling wifi duty in the garage, as punishment for lying to me, lol.
I believe he did, and said that is still compressed and not hi res. Basically there is better to be had set up differently. You must have a native streamer and Apple TV compress and the eversolo or Fiio don’t.
My little $10 Apple Lightening earphone adapter is now passing 24/96khz on some Apple Music tracks. There must have been a software upgrade or something to allow this and it vacates the need for a DAC/Dongle mess. Sounds pretty good over analog into my amplifier.
Using a Mac Mini M2 PRO for Apple Music streaming, works great with no issues. I was previously using a 2010 Mac Mini with a 1 TB SSD and 16gb of ram that I installed many years ago. However, the 2010 Mini was sluggish with the work around I used to install a newer OS. I have been with iTunes / Apple Music since it came into existence so I will stick with Apple Music but I also stream Tidal and recently started using Qobuz. I connect my Mini via USB to my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (DAC), DAC connected to a Schiit Folkvangr tube amp.
@@Umuliuz I am using it with my headphone system, so no need for cell phone or iPad control. I do not know if you can control the Mac Mini via cell phone but I believe it can be done by iPad.
Thanks for the video. I am fairly new to streaming and have been pondering this question about how to get higher resolution out of Apple Music since the family (other than me) are firmly set inside the Apple ecosystem and I've found Apple Music works fine on Android and I may as well use that service.
great film, I have been watching for some time which manufacturer will be the first to introduce lossless , are there any integrated amplifiers that support Apple Lossless?
I don't understand why Apple does not provide the ability to select the preferred device from which to play music on apple music app. I mean, even if it has to be Apple device only. I cannot find any reason of losing profit if doing this. I have chosen Apple music instead of Spotify just because I want CD/High resolution quality. Especially high resolution. I hear significant difference on tracks played at 24b/96khz or 24b/196khz (ifi zen dac v2 -> yamaha ax-590 amp -> cambridge audio sx-50 speakers)
Darko, some of us, are forced in audio shops to purchase expensive devices and so i am sitting with Atom Uniti by Naim that is fantastic streamer for qobuz and tidal if you wanted those two but, i am really longing for Apple music and have no idea how to implement this into it. Ok roon and audirvana are never allow also to play it and the only way is the 3rd parties. Now, i really would like to carry on using naim since i love dac inside, but have no clue how. I have tried with my integrated amp by Rotel Michi x3 and cable going to my ipad but not sustainable, also Naim dac is better then michi. Please advise anything on this. 😊
I am running a Mac mini M1, Apple Music and a Dragonfly Red. I have all the settings turned up to all the highest quality. Does Apple Music Mac OS res down the stream? Per Apple support, I should be getting the hi-res files correct? TIA!
It’s completely ridiculous isn’t it, the biggest tech company in the worlds hires music service that is basically unusable via a hifi a best sound quality without faffing around create or buying some niche solution, while everyone else’s music service works with ease, poor show apple!
Do the R7 and Eversolo output only Apple Music in bitperfect or does any audio stream work? I.e. Tidal, Amazon Music, Deezer etc. (as long as it's installable of course).
My question around these Android-based streamers is how long will they work for? Once the OS isn't supported by Google, are there risks resulting from that? I guess that could apply to any software-based solutions, but wonder whether it's more acute in this instance given Google's poor track record.
Thanks for the video. I use my setup (Marantz PM7000N, Wharfedale Evo 4.4s, RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII, Pro-ject X1) mostly for vinyl, but I wanted to try out hi-res because using Airplay with Apple Music didn't sound all that good. I setup a plex server on my PC to feed FLAC to the Marantz, but sourcing FLAC for most of my music was impossible. Still, what I did have sounded much better than Airplay. Since I had an iPad I don't use much anymore, I decided to connect it to the Marantz by going iPad > Apple USB Camera adapter > USB cable > Douk Audio U2 > optical cable > Marantz. It actually works really well and sounds much better than Airplay. The highest I saw from Apple Hi Res Lossless was 192 KHz. Total cost was about $100 USD, and that's including the cables needed, not too shabby.
I bought the FiiO R7 and love it. It plays very well with such a variety of equipment. At the moment it’s feeding a Sansui AU-555A powering a pair of Celestion Ditton 551 and you’d never think there was a fifty year gap between the network streamer and the integrated amplifier / loudspeakers. They sound like contemporary pieces. I also note that the R7 comes with a cushy base that in my view acts as an iso pad which I love.
If my R7 fell over and died I’d run right out and buy another one.
All I NEED is CD quality 16/44.1, beyond that is of no importance to me. I guess that disqualifies me as an audiophile, but I AM a happy man!
Same here. I've yet to hear a Hi Res track or album that sounds significantly better than the Redbook equivalent. It's nice seeing the higher sampling rate and bit depth on the DAC though 😊
I'm with you, being an audiophile is a disease anyways. Hi res is important in the music production process though.
CD quality streaming is not the same as actual CD quality. CD’s will always sound better
@k-doggy1762 certainly me as welll. CD rates through dac to take off sheen and Class A amp at 5 watts. I come for music suggestions for person of different age and he has excellent taste.
How does that disqualify you? I love my CDs.
I just wish Audivana or Roon could interact with Apple Music (or Spotify) similar to Tidal or Qobuz
Being a Apple Music subscriber the Eversolo is a godsend to me, have messed about with all manor of streaming options but hated having to use AirPlay but now I’m in audio nirvana with my master edition with LHY linear power supply on the way soon. The Eversolo is hands down the best bit of kit I’ve bought in a long time & at a reasonable price can’t recommend it highly enough.
I agree the landscape integration of the app on my phone would be better implemented in portrait whilst leaving the display on the dmp A6 landscape, maybe this is something Eversolo can change in a future software update but otherwise I’m more than happy 🙂
I really like the bits on some of your videos where you talk about new / resissued music.
To me this just illustrates the lunacy of non-physical media - at least until this stuff matures. Consumers are being asked to pay big money for technology which is immature and may or may not deliver on your expectations. I'll continue to use an iPhone, Spotify and wireless headphones for discovery - and a turntable and a CD player for focussed listening.
as opposed to paying big money for technology which is lossy (£30 for a single vinyl album) 😏
I can only hope you keep beating this drum, John. Perhaps Apple will pay proper attention in time. This Airplay conundrum can only ultimately be solved when Apple itself allows bit perfect play over its WiFi attributes. For example, it’s become a bit of an insult that I can’t stream Roon Arc bit-perfect while wirelessly tethering a MojoPoly combo to my iPhone or iPad. It’s always downsampled to the Airplay default. More insulting, I can actually play the Poly’s micro SD stored content, bit-perfect from the iOS device into any lightning-connected dongle or DAC, yet the Poly itself can only receive the same downsampled output… mind you, originating from the same uncompressed, incoming files the iOS device receives from it. Why Chord didn’t design the Poly to direct play it’s SD files into the Mojo is a whole other problem I’ll only mention as such. A unique set of problems, I admit, but being mobile for weeks at a time, it would be quite nice to have a more robust wireless pipeline in both directions, such as it is with the Nucleus on the home network. Meantime, I remain optimistic these limitations will be removed in time. And truthfully, I’m grateful for what have already. The Poly’s tethering feature has solved a greater wireless problem I’ve found quite consistent with Bluetooth connectivity across the board: Random, frequent dropouts, constantly interrupting the music… largely due to its management protocols of other connected devices. Compared to that, I’ll happily take AAC or Redbook FLAC (whichever it is) all day long. BTW, love the podcast too!
Loves this video. The major problem I have with Apple music for Android, is that it doesn't have soundcheck, volume normalization which is essential. I know some people don't like it, but the fact that nearly every streaming service (besides of apple music) have that, is the reason why we got back more dynamic range in modern masters.
I love high dynamic range songs, but when a loud song is next on the playlist, apple music kills my ears. I really wonder why this is not a huge topic for audio lovers, who use apple music and android devices.
I am hooked by DSD coded music, it's Sony technology and absolutely amazing.
I recently updated the Hi-fi setup in my office. I went the Eversolo route and got the master edition.
The Eversolo is a wonderful bit of kit. I looked at the Fio, but preferred the form factor, internal nvme, and remote functions of the Eversolo - plus......VU meters! :D Stupid, but I bloody love having VU meters again. ;)
The other thing I was looking for was multiple inputs and outputs as this is my office and I wanted to connect my PC, output to a headphone DAC. The Eversolo is also amazing in what it can connect to and receive.
In the end I got the Eversolo, connected to a Power Box DS2 Amp, feeding a pair of Fyne Audio F500. I'm in the stage where I'm listening to all my favourites again with a big smile on my face.
Only thing I havent figured out how to get working yet is the Zen DAC V2 for my headphones. Haven't sorted out how to configure and get that working.
But your review of the Fio and Eversolo were a massive help in deciding what to go for. Thank you. :)
as an apple user i just use my 100$ apple tv for streaming and my iphone or ipad as a remote controller for apple tv music. no third party apps. the apple tv is connected via LAN with my network, the audio goes through HDMI 2.1 to the TV and from the TV per TOSLink to my DAC. if you want 24bit/192khz all the time thats not the solution, but i get 24bit/48khz for cheap and its a simple easy to manage solution. my loudspeakers are the Buchardt A500 and it sounds great
Finally the answer to the question that nobody has been able answer up until now! Thanks!
Don’t understand why Apple does not add the necessary software to their Apple TV OS to support highest quality hi res playback from their own Apple Music app. That is what I have waiting for to stream highest quality music to my hi fi setup. Would be seamless and all in the Apple ecosystem. 🧐
Can we PLEASE have more stuff that just works. Having to jump through all the hoops that sooo many products make us do just to get the damn thing to work gets really old very quickly. I remember with great fondness, the utter joy of switching on my amp and CD player, putting a disc in the tray, pressing play, and enjoying the music. Why do we have so much faffing about now with apps and compatibility issues? AAAGGHHHH!
Apple Music isn't the only option for streaming music. 😉
So in conclusion there is still no easy way to play High Res Apple Music in 2023
Does the introduction of USB-C on the iPhone 15 range make lossless on the go a bit more convenient as we don’t need the lightning adapter anymore?
I own and use the newest Apple TV 4K which is connected to my Denon AV-Receiver. It actually does switch the sample rate between 48 kHz and 44.1 kHz depending on the source. I guess Apple implemented that feature at some point in the last weeks or months. Unfortunately the Denon AV-Receiver only shows the input sample rate but not the bit depth so I can only assume that it also switches between 16 and 24 Bit depending on the source. I love this setup for its simplicity and I don't care much about Hi-Res. And to all the other Apple TV users: Go into the "Music" app settings and activate lossless streaming. It's set to AAC by default.
Is your denon receiver eARC ?
So to stream apple lossless in your hi-fi system you need a non apple device..
Isnt that something
Not true. You can get the same effect as the FiiO R7 by connecting an iPad to your DAC via USB and putting the iPad on a stand.
@@mongo2044so another device then.
@@circattle I think @darko Audio needs to test that assumption in part 3 ;) He can throw in Apple Music via the Apple TV as an additional and AirPlay to an AirPlay 1 endpoint.
@@mongo2044your dac must have it’s own power source and a usb input , many don’t WiiM pro plus does not when connected to amp and passive speakers
Thanks for going deep on this topic, Darko. Apple shouldn’t make it this hard to enjoy hi-res lossless sound from Apple Music. This video should be pinned at the top when people Google search this topic.
I became obsessed trying to find an affordable solution for streaming bit perfect lossless audio to the point where it was maddening. In the end, I bought a Wiim Mini which cost me around $80 USD. IMO, the difference in sound quality over more expense solutions just isn't worth the time or the hassle.
You can get and iem and dac under that
If you want CD quality lossless (bit perfect) over AirPlay 2, you must set the volume to max on your iOS device. In a Mac, you must set the overall volume to max as well. After that, you can adjust your volume on your preamp or whatever.
I’m really curious if most audiophiles could consistently differentiate between CD quality and Hi Res. I mean just look at the whole MoFi vinyl debacle.
In case of ATV you have to set the right settings in the Apple Music app itself to get 24/48. Otherwise you get lossy AAC.
How do you do this?
Setting>App>Music>Audio Quality>Hi Res
Getting that " 96K" to pop up is so satisfying...you know the best way to do that? LDAC bluetooth!😅 I can send music from my phone or tablet to the BlueMe Pro, digital PCM into a nice DAC, plug in your favorite amp and speakers, just enjoy the music. The little display shows 96k and that's how I know it sounds good😅
LDAC might play 96khz files but it doesn’t do it losslessly. LDAC throws Info away. Just see Sony‘s explainer on their website. Happy listening!
LOL - is this satire?
I believe that the real plus from "high Res" is about / from the bits Depth i.e. 24 or 32 bits, for greater Dynamics in particular. Sampling Rate of 44kHz, I believe, is good enough.
Love the music recommendations! It can't all be just about bits (and bobs). Refreshing!
If the R7 and A6 are Airplay 1, can you just simply Airplay and not bother with the casting app/Android Apple Music? I'm dying to figure out how to lossless streaming with Apple Music.
99% of people are not going to buy a whole separate streamer just for Apple Music
I have Qobuz and Tidal to use with roon. Apple Music on the go.
Streaming, more convenient, apparently. 😉 But so many gotchas, gizmos, software, dependencies, conversions, compatibility issues. I'll stick to CD in my listening room, and streaming for office/headphones.
Back to listening Abba cds ehh
John agrees ruclips.net/video/S3fpAYI7hGo/видео.html
AppleLossless Switcher App for MacOS. It controls the MIDI output for bit-perfect HI-Res lossless audio streaming via USB cable to an external DAC/Amp. Solved.
Does the Lossless Switcher still audibly glitch when the sample rate changes? It used to. If it still does, many people would consider this not yet 'solved'.
@@DarkoAudio It does, but if people are seriously bothered about that, they need to worry about more serious or pressing concerns. Lol.
Argon Solo is also a Chromecast unit, it can play Apple music through Google Home app controlled by iPhone at least at 16/44 (not AAC) . Argon streamer/dac can handle Hi-res, but I don't know if Google app limit the stream. Why I wrote this anyway, because Argon Solo (250€) sounds better to me than Eversolo Dac Z8.
I can hear the difference between 16 & 24 bits but absolutely none 48-192. I assume bits matter, while khz don't.
What service to listen HIRES music
Absolutely.
For me it’s the other way around…
Yes, indeed. As an old geezer musician/recording engineer, I can’t hear above 12khz so the sampling frequency isn’t important to me anymore. Only my dog. But the higher bit resolution is something that is very apparent.
@@martinsoltau6926It mostly has to do with the way digital "volume" works.
Thanks for the info here. With all the streaming options available and all the specs it’s a bit overwhelming. You are helping me to understand. Btw digging your pod casts. All the best.
I have a small box connected to my Apple TV 4k that exacts an optical toslink signal from HDMI, feeding an ifi nano iOne into a Cambridge Audio AXA-35, and Wharfedale Diamond 12.1. Good enough for me listening for hours without any fatigue.
Surely if you have a streaming amp hardwired to Apple Music via ethernet, it gets the full noise, right? My Hegel H95 has no WiFi connection, but has ethernet hooked up. I use my iPhone as the controller (AirPlay2). HiFi salesman assured me the phone is just the controller, the amp gets full hi-res audio directly from Apple Music via ethernet, because the phone sends an address to the amp which tells it where to find the direct stream, allowing original high-res encoding. It's an expensive amp, so I sure hope that is the case. Anyway, thanks for the video Darko.
What’s going on inside macOS (probably many other operating systems also) is not just resampling the audio, but it is actually mixing other system sounds with the music. If you get some kind of a notification when music is playing you will hear both.
Until Apple implements exclusive mode that exists in other software such as roon or the tidal app, this will continue being a problem even if someone keeps changing the sample rate manually
The quest for bit-perfect lossless music, as intended by the artist/recording studios is driving me crazy, not to mention how Dolby Atmos sometimes mess it up. I wish all these didn’t bother me, but i just can’t… so the quest continues….
Nice job on the DMP A-6/ Apple Music discussion. 3rd time’s a charm!
I have been looking at quite a number of videos to see how I can get Lossless and High Rez from my iPhone’s Apple Music into my (old fashioned) stereo integrated amp. I think I’ll stick to my current method: a spare older iPhone XS, attached to a Dragonfly and a 10 feet 3.5 mm cable into the Aux In on my amplifier. I just have to be careful not to trip over the cable on the floor.
Thanks for the heads up on the Tricky album, love Maxinquaye. I cant find my original CD so the perfect time to upgrade to better sound.
Apple tv 4k connected to a receiver or a sound bar directly over hdmi should support high res audio, doesn't it ?
Nope. Per Apple, the Apple TV tops out at 48kHz.
@@DarkoAudio oh I see.. it's 24 bit 48 khz in the apple tv 4k.. do we really see a difference between 24 bit 48 khz vs 24 bit 96 khz ?
when i connect my Windows PC using apple Music on windows, with HDMI to my AVR I get 24 bit/192Khz. But when i use USBC HDMI adapter for my iPad connected to my AVR, it is limited to 48Khz
Loving the Amapaiano intro (I think???)
Kind of sad how expensive it is to get Hi Res Apple Audio into the listening room system $1300 CA for the Eversolo and $999 CA for the Fiio R7.
I have been a an Apple user from the beginning and I like my iPhone and the Apple ecosystem overall but when it comes to music I found them too difficult to work with to get the experience I was looking for. For this reason I’ve opted to go with Amazon Music in that I find it has better sound quality than Spotify, nearly the same catalog, and can work with my other devices for high(er) res streaming like the Wiim Pro Plus. Maybe one day Apple will get its act together.
Can you tell a difference between cd quality and hi res on Apple Music?
Hi. Did you do a video on how to control an iPad connected to an amp for hi res audio using a iPhone to control apple music on the iPad itself ?
this answers my questions
I just wanna know how to be sure im getting full 24bit 196kHz sample rate through to my Sennheiser Headphones at bit perfect, and at impedance matched. Haha
Same
I use an iPhone wired into a chord mojo, then into the amp. Hi-res no problem. It’s simple and works superbly. Maybe not the most elegant, but it’s about the music isn’t it?
Even though I despise Apple's business model, the fact that I live in Taiwan only allows me to play either Spotify and/or Apple Music, as Tidal and all the other platforms are not available in Taiwan at this time... so I use Spotify and Apple Music. In wanting to keep costs down during the COVID-19 debacle, my solution was to buy an iPod Touch 7th generation - yes, I know it's been discontinued, but I'm sure you can still find used ones out there, if you look... I run my iPod Touch through an AudioQuest Dragonfly Cobalt, into a Little Dot Mk II as a pre-amp, then into the rest of my system... It's not much to look at, but it sounds great and most importantly, it allows me to receive the Hi-Res music that I'm looking for when listening to Apple Music - skipping all the bugaboos and other aggravating problems that Dark Audio has been discussing in this and previous episodes... Great video - much appreciated and enjoyed...!!!
The Bowie puns were great
Thank you for the excellent explanation. I really enjoy your direction. I’m a senior citizen and 50 year audiophile with interests this video address. My current streaming situation is all in with Apple, Qobuz and BlusSound Node 2i. Believe I’ll follow one of your thoughts and add a standalone DAC to my Node 2i. Always eager for your next video and podcast.
I use an OTG adapter from my iPad that goes straight into my Topping e30 dac, the dac shows that's hires
I really hope apple could come up with or adapt a more advance BT codec.
Or they can simply adapt the industry standard open source LDAC codec , but they won't cause...apple
@DarkoAudio In order to get 24/96 out of your chromecast audio, you need to have the optical output from it. 3.5mm tp Optical adaptor.
You mean like the one I used in the video?
Glass Fiber friend
Hi John, just and FYI, there is a “Plug and Play” Linear power supply now available for the Eversolo made by Beatechnik. The model # is LPS-A6… just in case you wanted to do an apples to apples comparison in the future.
Nice try -- but my comparison *was* 'apples to apples':
The Eversolo DMP-A6 sells for €859.
FiiO R7 + PL-50 sell for €858.
€858 vs €859
Sorry John. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, this video was exactly what I was looking for so thank you for making it. I may have misunderstood you. I thought you mentioned preferring the sound of the Fiio (when fed by their PL50 linear power supply) over the sound of the Eversolo. I shouldn’t have mentioned an apple to apples comparison as in hindsight, I can see that comes across as a critique and that was not my intention at all. I only wanted to let you know that recently an upgraded linear power supply had become available for the Eversolo as well. Definitely not intending to criticize at all. I love your work and it’s extremely informative and helpful in enjoying my hobby. Thank you, Dan
@@danielgoodman7881 Don't worry mate I understood what you meant. An apples to apples sound comparison since John places an emphasis in the outboard PSU making the Fiio sound better over the Eversolo to his ears. The reply sadly speaks volumes. Disappointing because as you can from his review of the Eversolo with 235k views (one of his most viewed videos recently along with the Sony Walkman video) people would be interested in his views on its impact to the Eversolo sound.
Great video, as a sometimes Apple Music user, thank you. I say sometimes because, on my main system and on my home office system I use Roon. Of course, my dream is to cut through all of the work arounds that you identified and have Apple and Roon get it together!!
Only "but", dear John, is: for how long will the manufacturers provide support so the players get updates to at least a reasonable "recent" version of android and thus access to Google Play and a version of Apple music that can access apple's catalog?
Can't the EU make Apple open up their walled garden, like they did with USB-C?
I have an old Mac Mini (headless) coupled with an external dac connected to my amplifier. I use the (free) Lossless Switcher app that changes the Audio Midi output settings on the fly depending on the bitrate of the music playing on Apple Music. That way I always have the right bitrate/frequency playing to the dac. You can use the remote app on your ipad or screen sharing app on another mac to control Apple Music on the Mini.
Currently using an Apple TV 3rd gen streaming Apple Music via HDMI out into a Levinson 502 surround processor using the Harman Karden Logic 7 surround processing this is a great way to listen to Apple Music and it sounds fantastic even if its not bit perfect
That song in the beginning 😮
AmaPiano to the world!
@@mbizozo6271 Quite surprised coming from John, his got a rather peculiar taste in music
Would love to see Darko cover the state of apps for MacOS and iOS for playing music, such as audirvana, Roon (again), Doppler and the like. There's a small but thriving ecosystem for all kinds of music listeners.
Would an Apple TV work if you AirPlay to that then a receiver ?
Also, you can connect an iPhone (I have 14) with a cable to the dac and control it with your Apple Watch. This way you get 192/24 even in streaming. I also browse Apple Music with my iPad and when I add an album, it become instantly visible on the Apple Watch/iphone... these are ways to avoid buying a 1k device for me.
How much did you buy the iPad and Apple Watch for? 😉
@@DarkoAudio I'm an Apple fanboy so I had those for other purposes anyway. Did you try jogging with the Eversolo? :)). I have also a mojo 2, so it is a wast of money to buy Eversolo or A7 for me....About downloading on the device before transmitting to AirPlay 2... have you tried that? I agree that Apple make lossless streaming pretty complicated.
My Apple TV shows up in my IOS control center airplay menu under the "control other speakers and tv's" dropdown. Once it is chosen you can jump into the Apple Music app and navigate/control playback as if you were remote controlling the target device and it's pulling it's own direct stream. Perhaps the next dive down the Apple Music rabbit hole should explore what the IOS app is doing vs the target device. I'm curious to figure out if the stream is still being relayed through the IOS device or truly being pulled direct from the target device with the IOS device as the controller. Also curious as to what sample rates are capable and if they're bit perfect. Apple should enable this remote capability for all devices that are an airplay target.
Stunning, intelligent evaluation. Many thanks.
Thanks for the heads up on Tricky. There’s also a 3 LP version.
You mean the 3LP version that I mentioned in the video? 😆
😬😂@@DarkoAudio
Very useful- thank you John!
Well as I understand it , the easiest way to play Hi Res Apple Music is to use an IPad Pro or IPhone 15 Pro with usb C output connected to any DAC or DDC via USB B. Firstly you don’t need the stupid camera adaptor which degrades the music quality. The Iphone 15 Pro works better cuz you can use an Iwatch to remotely control your IPhone. That allows you to then use any DDC or DAC of your choice and not limited to a Fiio or Eversolo. That is the best way to listen to Hi Res Apple Music, for me anyway.
@@razisn I have seen in the mkt some lightning to USB B cables by Chinese brands. Dunno if it works. Otherwise you need a camera adaptor and that is not a good solution for sound quality. I have tried all 3 options - older IPad/Iphone with adaptor ; Mac Mini connected to DAC/ DDC ; IPhone 15 Pro with USB C to USB B to DAC/DDC. And it is very discernible that the last option provides the best sound quality hands down.
@DarkoAudio Are there any other more affordable alternatives to both of these network streamers which will do bit perfect streaming?
Wait, help.. all this time I thought Apple airplay on my phone to the Bluesound Node on my receiver will give me lossless quality? Is this not true? I was about to buy it after so much saving and research.
No. Not lossless. Resampled.
Another option is a DAP that uses bit-perfect Android work arounds.
I have a Hiby R6 Pro II that I use the usb out to SPDIF that feeds into my Gustard R26.
Sounds amazing!
I have a Hiby R6 V3 with Apple Music and it does lossless and hires bit perfectly (thanks to the same re-working done by Fiio) obviously via wired headphones. I can connect it to my DAC or headphone amp via USB , but sadly it stops any streaming apps from working and only allows plaback os my stored music.
You need a special USB to SPDIF cable to feed your DAC. [I think Hiby makes one.]
I use my R6 Pro II with this cable into my Gustard R26 and it works perfectly!
Hope this helps...
This investigation is a true public service.
On a tangential note, I’ve since replaced my AirPlay 2 AirPort Express with a first gen AirPlay 1 AirPort Express. Enjoying AirPlay as originally intended…losslessly.
If a 24-bit/96 kHz track is down-sampled to 16-bit/44.1 kHz, then is it truly lossless? 🤷♂
@@mongo2044 Hi, do you know if I can downgrade one Airport’s firmware to reactivate AirPlay 1, leave the rest of my network AirPorts on the latest firmware? The AirPort Express gen 1 A1264 only cost me $10, and I still have the newest AirPort Express pulling wifi duty in the garage, as punishment for lying to me, lol.
@@steadilyfred well, when you put it that way…
What happens if we connect apple tv directly to an AVR that supports high res audio instead of connecting it to the tv?
Then you get 24bit 48khz lossless. I don't know why he's not talking about that. It works flawlessly.
This is what I do@@jollerthomsen
I believe he did, and said that is still compressed and not hi res. Basically there is better to be had set up differently. You must have a native streamer and Apple TV compress and the eversolo or Fiio don’t.
This is precisely what i wanted to know. I was hoping reviewers highlight this very function first thing in their review. Thanks anyways
Thanks a lot for this very useful video!
My little $10 Apple Lightening earphone adapter is now passing 24/96khz on some Apple Music tracks. There must have been a software upgrade or something to allow this and it vacates the need for a DAC/Dongle mess. Sounds pretty good over analog into my amplifier.
Apple donge is more than enough both ones. But they are capped at 24bit 48khz so all audio above that will be desampled
I love FiiO personally think they do a really good job with their portable players I have an M11S and love it
This shouldn't be this damn difficult to sort through
Using a Mac Mini M2 PRO for Apple Music streaming, works great with no issues. I was previously using a 2010 Mac Mini with a 1 TB SSD and 16gb of ram that I installed many years ago. However, the 2010 Mini was sluggish with the work around I used to install a newer OS. I have been with iTunes / Apple Music since it came into existence so I will stick with Apple Music but I also stream Tidal and recently started using Qobuz. I connect my Mini via USB to my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (DAC), DAC connected to a Schiit Folkvangr tube amp.
Have you found any way to remote it from your phone?
@@Umuliuz I am using it with my headphone system, so no need for cell phone or iPad control. I do not know if you can control the Mac Mini via cell phone but I believe it can be done by iPad.
Thanks for the video. I am fairly new to streaming and have been pondering this question about how to get higher resolution out of Apple Music since the family (other than me) are firmly set inside the Apple ecosystem and I've found Apple Music works fine on Android and I may as well use that service.
great film, I have been watching for some time which manufacturer will be the first to introduce lossless , are there any integrated amplifiers that support Apple Lossless?
On your Mac, do you just set the midi to 24/192 and forget about it?
What about “sound check”?
is it possible to connect my Focal Bathys headphones through USB-C to my iPad and use the DAC mode to listen to Apple Music Hi-Res Lossless?
I just plug my phone into my dac, isn't that easier?
I’m contemplating a 4-5m usb cable to do the same thing
@@_AJH_ If this works, what is all the hassle about?
Great video John, if I have a new Dolby atmos tv with apple app, will I get hi res /atmos going into my Dolby atmos soundbar? Cheers mate ❤
I don't understand why Apple does not provide the ability to select the preferred device from which to play music on apple music app. I mean, even if it has to be Apple device only. I cannot find any reason of losing profit if doing this. I have chosen Apple music instead of Spotify just because I want CD/High resolution quality. Especially high resolution. I hear significant difference on tracks played at 24b/96khz or 24b/196khz (ifi zen dac v2 -> yamaha ax-590 amp -> cambridge audio sx-50 speakers)
I love your background in the Frame TV. Where do you get it?
Or an old LG V or G series?
I have the Hiby R6 III DAP and it also works perfectly!
Who introduced Darko to Amapiano? 😂
Darko, some of us, are forced in audio shops to purchase expensive devices and so i am sitting with Atom Uniti by Naim that is fantastic streamer for qobuz and tidal if you wanted those two but, i am really longing for Apple music and have no idea how to implement this into it. Ok roon and audirvana are never allow also to play it and the only way is the 3rd parties.
Now, i really would like to carry on using naim since i love dac inside, but have no clue how.
I have tried with my integrated amp by Rotel Michi x3 and cable going to my ipad but not sustainable, also Naim dac is better then michi.
Please advise anything on this. 😊
This was very helpful. Thanks.
Can they do Dolby atmos music?
I am running a Mac mini M1, Apple Music and a Dragonfly Red. I have all the settings turned up to all the highest quality. Does Apple Music Mac OS res down the stream? Per Apple support, I should be getting the hi-res files correct? TIA!
It’s completely ridiculous isn’t it, the biggest tech company in the worlds hires music service that is basically unusable via a hifi a best sound quality without faffing around create or buying some niche solution, while everyone else’s music service works with ease, poor show apple!
@@razisnalso new iphones with USB c should do the same job as an iPad right ?
@@businessYPyes i tried it with iPhone 15 pro max to speakers but it must be wired usb to a dac , so the dac must have usb
Do the R7 and Eversolo output only Apple Music in bitperfect or does any audio stream work? I.e. Tidal, Amazon Music, Deezer etc. (as long as it's installable of course).
My question around these Android-based streamers is how long will they work for? Once the OS isn't supported by Google, are there risks resulting from that? I guess that could apply to any software-based solutions, but wonder whether it's more acute in this instance given Google's poor track record.