Kimi's career is something from a Seinfeld skit. *Never talks, still the most popular driver. *Paid to not drive for an entire year. *Only man to make Ron Dennis cry of joy. *Couldn't win when he was the fastest, won a championship in an inferior car. *Qualifies any position, somehow ends up on the podium. *Is currently driving as a hobby. *Hothead yet calm. *90% of career spent fighting for the championship. *Bwoah. Edit: I forgot to mention this.. *He was asleep 30 mins before his F1 debut.
The 2007 Ferrari was not inferior, it was at least as good as the McLaren. Probably better. And how has he spent 90% of his career fighting for the championship?
Putting an absolutely new car mid season? Racing with previous year's car and still being in the hunt for the championship.. F1 really was a different animal in the 2000's. Great video though, brilliant narration and love the graphics! Will surely check out the podcast now.
Well yes. As you saw it with Ferrari. They did it in 2002 and 2003 and started with its predecessor. But here it didnt suprised me, cause especially the 2002 car was dominating. (but in fact it wasn't the real F2002 besause they needed to change some aero aspecs in 2003. That's another story) What suprised me a lot more was that McLaren designed a way better version with the mp4/17b than the original mp4/17 was! The mp4/17 was slow, even compared with its rival teams in 2002 (Ferrari and Williams...) So the b-version was - even it was a "plan b" car the perfect evolution of the mp4/17. This might be as well because of the regulation changes from 2002 to 2003 ad well. McLaren understood the new rules the best. Ferrari had a good car but struggled with the changes the FIA forced to make them and the car was not as effect as the F2002. The DNA of the F2004 was the F2003GA ... So one year later Ferrari's performance just exploded! Ine reason why the mp4/18 struggled. They didnt found more performance instead of Ferrari, BAR, Renault. Btw actually McLaren never came to the 2 cars in one season situation in 2003. The actually meant car was never able to race and the mp4/17b, which was really just a plan b, raced all 16 races. So it was just a bit surprising that McLaren still was able to fight for the championship back then ... (because the mp4/17 in 2002 wasn't, but it must had to do with the regulation changes that slowed down Ferrari more than the other teams ...)
Back then the regulations from year to year isn’t as dramatic as it is right now... plus having extensive testings really helped many of the top teams like Ferrari,McLaren and Williams back then to be at the forefront of the grid
100% agree with this! Mclaren Mercedes had a brand new engine specification for that race and before the race Mercedes recommended the boost button which could give more power for limited amounts of time to only be used 6 times in the race when he needed it most. In fact, it was only after they found out that he had used it 15 times on the lap that it expired. So if they had gone conservative in their strategy and approach for that weekend he would have won the race and ultimately the championship. I think that young Kimi was incredibly quick but didn't quite have in his armoury how to get the car home, it was flat-out or nothing.
@@drybones7475 not to mention his two mistakes of going off the track. Understandable experience sort of denied him but no one can’t how he took the fight to a prime Schumacher in an inferior car
2003 was just one engine failure which cost him the title. I guess the title is Schumacher's. But in 2005 he completely dominated the season, got pole by half a second at Monaco, and was usually a few seconds ahead of Alonso. The bad luck for him was consistent though, and the title was sadly gone.
Nope, he shouldn't. One title is enough for him - trashed by Alonso, destroyed by Vettel and beaten by Massa and Heidfeld. He would be the by far worst multiple WDC in the F1 history if he had won 2003 and 2005, luckily it didn't happen. Also he made dumb mistakes in both seasons - 2003 : bottled Australia - qualifiyng, handed Fisichella the win in Brazil, bottled Spain - qualifiying, bottled Canada - qualifying and made mistakes vs Barrichello and Montoya in GB. Now 2005 - stalled the engine in Australia, ignored instructions to avoid curbs in San Marino, flatspotted his tyres in Europe, spun in Italy and bottled Brazil - qualifiyng.
@@ciaronsmith4995Lol.... You dumbass. Alonso still made less mistakes than Kimi. Kimi had a much faster car and made more errors. He deserved to lose 2003 and 2005. Massa was close to him in 2007, destroyed him in 2008 and was on his way to kick his ass again in 2009 - a mediocre driver like Massa was enough to beat Kimi... Lol, and let's not forget what Schumacher and Alonso did to him. Even fucking Fisichella and Bottas beat Massa with bigger margins than Kimi did... P. S - Heidfeld was beaten by Montoya in his rookie season. When Montoya was in his rookie - season, he couldn't even come close to fucking Zonta in the title fight. Not to mention that Heidfeld also stated that Kubica is the most complete driver which he had as teammate.
This is a super sharp summary of the podcast; really nails delivering the feeling and meaning of all the details, in a short, snappy format. Well done again guys!
I was very invested in F1 back then and used to love the stories about this car is it happening in 2003. A great looking car. and can see its DNA in the 2005 car that was arguably the class of the field that year! Whats I would love to see is Giorgio Piola's take on the car, especially the front wing. Most cars of the time had a lower section in the middle, where as the MP4-18 had two lower sections outside the Y250 area. why? also it seemed the slot gaps in the front wing went all the way to the nose and attached to the nose, another feature ever not seen on the grid!
Back then there was no real Y250 vortex. The Y250 vortex area is behind the end of neutral area of the front wing where the flaps start. The Y250 vortex is created by them. Because of that there was no Y250 vortex. And because of that the section needed to be different. The flaps of the front wing were nothing else that the other teams used...just the nose of the MP4-19 was lower and similar to the F2001 of Ferrari in 2001. They did this, like Ferrari did in 2001, because it sealed the airstream under the nose. Also the concave nose itself. Ferrari did this first in 2001. The Slot gaps were also always like that during that era, sorry. Every front wings slot gaps went the whole way to the nose...since the B191 started these kind of front wings. But maybe i get you wrong here and do not understand what you mean exactly. But anyway - indeed the MP4-18 and MP4-19 copied the extreme aerodynamics of the Ferrari F2002 especially and the nose of the F2001 and took it to another extreme. But it was a also a great looking car that was needed to make two steps at once to make it possible to develope the MP4-20.
Michaela Stockbauer I totally get what your saying. I suppose I was not saying the y250 vortex but more that area. For example on the f2003GA there is a slot gap in the wing all the way under the nose from end plate to end plate. But on the mp4-18 the slot actually attaches to the side of the nose and doesn’t go behind or under the nose like normal convention at the time. Also why all other cars seemed to dip in the centre (I believe a certain amount of the front wing could be lower in the rules. Hence Jordan and Benetton 2001 and Ferrari spoon shape) but McLaren Center section was actually higher than the middles. Does remind me of the front splitter on the Ferrari 488 GTE.
FaithlessEmo Racing now i got you. But Newey did nothing new here. The center of the front wing higher - was not uncommon in F1 in the 90's. Just take a look at the Ferraris of John Barnard - the center of the front wing was higher. So this idea was nothing new. With the "nose-attachement" - if there really was one - you are right with that. But i just took a look (as i really do not remember this) but i cannot found a pic where the flap was attached to the nose...at least in the first few months it was not attached....would even be illogical as you could not adjust the flap...but anyway, probably i just do not remember an update later in the season and you are right, but an attached flap was also done before. Ferrari attached a third flap to the nose in 2001 in Free Practice in Malaysia. So it was not really a new idea either, just an old idea done in a different way, as it was with the wing bring higher in the center and not dipping. Even though it was an interesting car that took a lot of things to extremes, like the extreme packaging which started with the F2002. Personally i think Ferrari really was most innovative with the F2002 - F2004 - with these cars xtreme packaging, undercut of sidespods, sidepos further short and further away from the front tyres, modern engineering of F1 cars - to just name a few things - really started. The MP4-18 just tried to make two steps at once to catch Ferrari technologicaly. What was the right decision in my opinion, and it brought further developement to a revolution in cardesign which started with the F2002. And if you look close you clearly can see that Newey really took the concept of the F2002 and tried to make it more extreme. And he was right to do so, as there was no better concept than Ross&Rorys with these regulations...don!t get me wrong - Newey is great, but i do not think he deserves much credit at this era. At this era Rory Byrne clearly was the man who set standards together with Ross Brawn. As Newey was the Nr. 1 and got copied during the mid to late 90's especially, Brawn and Byrne were the Nr.1 in the early 00's and Newey copied them. Nothing wrong about that! and Newey went back to be Nr. 1 again a few years later at Red Bull. But the era of 2000-2006 was clearly Rory Byrnes era, and most, including Newey, copied him and was not really the innovative designer and Nr. 1 designer anymore, but he raised again - so credit where credit is due! At this era Byrne deserves it - later Newey AGAIN deserves it. But the Mp 4-18, sorry if i say this, was a copy of the F2002 with Newey trying to take this concept to extremes...to make two steps at once...and again - even if he failed in the first place - he was right to do so! Otherwise McLaren would not have been able to catch Ferrari within 3 years! But anyway - thank you for reminding me of an interesting feature(even if the idea was not new, its interesting!)i totally forgot obviously! I really have to dig deep in my archive to remind myself of the MP4-18's front wing! And don't get me wrong about Newey - it just was not his time obviously, Byrne&Brawn were setting the standards and innovations in that era. Good old times...Newey vs. Brawn&Byrne from 94-2004! F1 s best era in my opinion...then technical reglement just got worse and worse.
Such a shame Mclaren wasted so much time and resources to this car, especially because like said if they had not and just focused on developing the older car, Kimi might have taken the 2003 championship....especially more shameful was that the following season car in 2004 which was in my understanding evolution of MP4-18 was also extremely unreliable for the first half of the season atleast, so its really a shame Mclaren essentially ruined their 2004 season as well because of this car
Wasting time is one thing but a team like mclaren shouldn't have even found themselves in a position like that anyway. Also as great as newey is if he hadn't wanted away, a restructure at mclaren wouldnt have happened and the b spec car used in 2004 would have been the car to either finish 2003 or atleast start 2004.
Kimi is a true racer. As such, I am sure the entire paddock is in quiet awe of him. For me he will always be in the pantheon of true racers. Long may he have a steering wheel and pedals and a track to play on.
Can't we just appreciate the visual and audioa quality of the video? The silhouette of Michael Schumacher appearing in red smoke, sounds of engine, fire extinguisher and screwdrivers during the testing part?
Am I right in thinking this was the year that Kimi could/should maybe have won the F1 WC but due to the radical nature of the design, that impeded the title charge more than anything else? If memory serves me right, Kimi would have been the youngest F1 Champion in history if he'd won...
Ciaron Smith Definitely better than Alonso’s 2012 season. That car’s been bashed to no end, but its developments throughout the season obviously made it at least decently competitive. Definitely more competitive than a year-old concept.
Nice video, I remember that the intiial aunch was set for either Imola or Catalunya but it was quickly pushed backed to Canada and by that time it was either Monza (last 3 races) or no go. The Ferrari 2003-GA made its debut in Barcelona but it was Kimi that made a mistake in qualifying and crashed at the start from the back of the grid just like he spun off in Canada qualy, there was also bad luck in both German races when his engine blew up in Nurburg and he was crashed out in Hockenheim, those were 18p that went down the drain, actually 20 if you take into account Schumacher's extra position. Also, the funny thing is it all went down to Michelin vs Bridgestone on wet conditions in Indy, had it stayed dry, there would've been a huge surprise in Suzuka as Kimi was blinding fast there and Schumacher was struggling behind but when it started to rain, Bridgestones were unbeatable on their intermediates.
The MP4-19 was indeed an upgraded MP4-18 - nothing else! They redesigned the Splitter, undertray and the frontwing and some inner detail - and that was the "new" MP4-19.
Who was at fault? Well, I wasn't there, but on the basis of this video I think it's clear who was at fault. When Bert in the McLaren canteen changed the recipe for his fabulous Tomato soup there was simply no way that the team could remain focussed on bringing reliability to the MP4-18 whilst still having to pursue the 17D. Croutons? What on Earth were McLaren thinking? Oh, and Paddy Lowe
Lmao Paddy Lowe, what a meme. Newey always proves his ingenuity, not even sure what happened to Lowe when he went to Williams, makes me doubt if Mercedes’s dominance had anything to do with him
Even tho there’s a case to be made that both were at fault. Newey putting aero designs,technology and ideas that were way way ahead of its time that pushed beyond the limits what the car can take. McLaren shooting Kimi Raikkonen and themselves on each foot for both 2003 and 2004,by putting little development on the MP4-17D and then taking the 2003 car by just changing its name change rather listening to Newey’s suggestions for a redesign which could have prepared McLaren so well for 2004 rather than the complete shit load of disasters they went through
6-7 years later Newey would have the last laugh as his Red Bull cars would incorporate many of the ideas like blown exhaust diffusers and tight rear end while winning 4 titles on the trot with Vettel on the wheel. The MP4-18 may had failed but I would say it wasn’t in vain since many of its earlier tech would be applied by Newey on his title winning cars at Red Bull
Back in the days when you can do actual testing... The fact the MP4/19 was an MP4/18 direct derivation reveals just how good "on paper", but bad in practice were the concepts behind the car. What's even more baffling was how competitive was the MP4/17 in his 2003 "D" specification when compared with its predecessor - Maybe, was there some potential to unlock? Or did McLaren found his way better with the new regulations?
Its easy to forget that even the likes of ferrari used to bring last years car to the first few races. Now its only the back markers with financial struggles that find it hard to get the new car to pre season testing. Is this down to new streamling technologies or just the sheer number of workforce in the factories?
The incredible raw pace of the 2005 car shows just how much potential the MP4-18 had: when Newey nailed most of what he'd aimed for, the design was dominant - even 2 years late.
2005 car wasn't even as good until they made some changes to the aero and came with a new engine in Spain, Kimi was hardly keeping up with the BAR of Jenson Button at the beginning of the season.
To me, if I had been Ron Dennis, I would have prioritised Raikkonen's title push in 2003 with the 17D. Once it became clear that the 18 was requiring a lot more work, I would have said, "this car can win if we work on it, but as Kimi is in contention with the 17D, we need to finish races with what we have at the moment. The car we're testing can be worked for next year, modifying the chassis if necessary to allow the drivers more confidence when driving,"
Shame it never raced as I remember seeing it in the monthly magazine for the first time as it was the best looking f1 car I’d ever seen. You can see the pedigree that followed, up to the 08 car.
Wurz revealed during Austrian TV program couple of years ago, that he crashed so often and that he called Dennis one day that he is sick of crashing it.
Love the transitions between chapters in this mclaren saga. I’m looking for a template of that exact style (seen similar in others I subscribe to too), can you point me in the right direction? Cheers
I remember being a frustrated mclaren Fan during the time. Wasted Mercedes Benz’s efforts and usher in a winless decade. It wasted Raikonnen’s time and let ferrari run away with championships unchallenged until Renault did something about it
The problem is often that designers only look at data obtained from wind tunnel tests. Cars that seem to work perfectly there do not always work perfectly on the track. See this year´s Red Bull.
I can understand McLaren's decision to separate the design procedures to more people.Andrian Newey is an ingenious engineer but he was putting the team at risk.
Sorry the MP4-18 was NOT the car that started the extreme packaging that is common in F1 today - that was clearly the F2002. McLaren clearly tried to take a bigger step - but that bite also was too big, as we saw. But the extreme packaging was started by Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn with the F2002, whichs concepts McLaren copied and tried to develope even more extreme solutions. So - honour where honour is due - the invention of xtreme packacking belongs to Rory Byrne, as does many inventions aerodynamically &mechanically in this era(drum-type brake coolings, step in the diffusor, vortices creators, Uprights in new inovative Metal-Matrix Material, modern ways of engineering of building an F1 Car still applied today, one piece wishbone etc.).
They just switched cars mid-season? I mean I guess they started the season with the old car, still sounds kinda unfair if they didn't develop the car in time
McLaren seems during those years, to have squandered opportunities to take championships, from internal politics as your excellent story explained. Kimi had Schumacher on the ropes frequently.
Here you go! Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s1-e3-mclaren-mp4-18-the-car-too-flawed-to-race/id1502628252?i=1000470262321 Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/0aFPeIcmOobVsLuq2a2ZDj READ MORE the-race.com/formula-1/the-most-famous-unraced-car-in-f1-history/
Looking at the performance of the MP4-19 in early 2004 you clearly see that Newey was right. That was the MP4-18. I think they just lied to avoid the bad publicity this car collected already.
@Ajvanho Interesting, seems like Football teams and the endless revolving door of players in and out as well as managers going from team to team....motorsports has a lot involved. They keep messing with my head, IM GOING TO RELEGATE THE LOT.😋 be well Ajvanho.
I feel like a car that really was way ahead of its time technology wise and took an approach that basically pushed the limits of it. It’s just a massive shame McLaren shot Kimi in the foot and themselves for next year by putting way too much resources to this car when they could update the 2002 car plus the regulations from 2002 and 2003 weren’t that different
Like I commented on another video: Ferrari and McLaren have something in common: they often obstacle themselves thanks to internal "political" problems.
When a guy known for designing great cars turns around and says he made a mistake and it needs a redesign, you listen. The fact two other guys outvoted him shows a level of stubborn ignorance just so one person does not have too much power. Newey messed up, he realised he messed up, but McLaren shot itself in the foot by not listening to him.
Im pretty sure that Mike Coughlan was responsible for that car, it had carbon everything, gbox, carbon uprights, many composite parts. Budget of 8 million and ended up close to 16million. Newey was dreaming of designing boats at the time not really that committed, thats why Ron had to make changes in the design team.
Its obvious the failed design lays squarely on Newey's shoulders, but that isn't all bad. It was effectively transforming F1 design to where we are today. Great ideas generally include great risk, unfortunately for McLaren it didn't pay off. Please don't look at this as letting McLaren off the hook, as this is rarely a one man issue, but I think it's clear Newey owns the lion's share.
Wait a sec the 2002 Merc was smoked by Ferrari f2002 but the updated version of Mclarens 2002 car is keeping Kimi in the title race. How did that happen ?
Newey is underrated. Man could bring a championship to any team he wants if he has the right ppl backing him. These Mclaren bois were holding this genius back
Adrian faced the same exact situation at Williams during the 1996 season. Frank Williams and Patrick Head promised Newey involvement in driver decisions. HHF was hired behind Newey's back to company Jack Villeneuve. Newey left Williams after the breach of promise.
The 15 years from 2000 to 2015 were horrible for mclaren, with a toxic environment, element of the team (heads to drivers) that really should have been surgically removed and a smug e proud attitude that caused the downfall. The biggest problem was, of course, Ron Dennis.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
ICYMI: PODCAST LINK!
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s1-e3-mclaren-mp4-18-the-car-too-flawed-to-race/id1502628252?i=1000470262321
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/0aFPeIcmOobVsLuq2a2ZDj
READ MORE
the-race.com/formula-1/the-most-famous-unraced-car-in-f1-history/
Guys, you gotta put it on youtube aswell.
Kimi's career is something from a Seinfeld skit.
*Never talks, still the most popular driver.
*Paid to not drive for an entire year.
*Only man to make Ron Dennis cry of joy.
*Couldn't win when he was the fastest, won a championship in an inferior car.
*Qualifies any position, somehow ends up on the podium.
*Is currently driving as a hobby.
*Hothead yet calm.
*90% of career spent fighting for the championship.
*Bwoah.
Edit: I forgot to mention this..
*He was asleep 30 mins before his F1 debut.
If only he won in Brazil
@@felixscarlett1542 and also finished European GP if I remember correctly
Honestly he's the last of a kind and I will deeply miss him when he leaves f1.
The 2007 Ferrari was not inferior, it was at least as good as the McLaren. Probably better.
And how has he spent 90% of his career fighting for the championship?
He is greatly underrated, he is a great driver.
Putting an absolutely new car mid season? Racing with previous year's car and still being in the hunt for the championship..
F1 really was a different animal in the 2000's. Great video though, brilliant narration and love the graphics! Will surely check out the podcast now.
Well yes. As you saw it with Ferrari.
They did it in 2002 and 2003 and started with its predecessor. But here it didnt suprised me, cause especially the 2002 car was dominating. (but in fact it wasn't the real F2002 besause they needed to change some aero aspecs in 2003. That's another story)
What suprised me a lot more was that McLaren designed a way better version with the mp4/17b than the original mp4/17 was!
The mp4/17 was slow, even compared with its rival teams in 2002 (Ferrari and Williams...)
So the b-version was - even it was a "plan b" car the perfect evolution of the mp4/17.
This might be as well because of the regulation changes from 2002 to 2003 ad well.
McLaren understood the new rules the best. Ferrari had a good car but struggled with the changes the FIA forced to make them and the car was not as effect as the F2002. The DNA of the F2004 was the F2003GA ... So one year later Ferrari's performance just exploded! Ine reason why the mp4/18 struggled. They didnt found more performance instead of Ferrari, BAR, Renault.
Btw actually McLaren never came to the 2 cars in one season situation in 2003.
The actually meant car was never able to race and the mp4/17b, which was really just a plan b, raced all 16 races.
So it was just a bit surprising that McLaren still was able to fight for the championship back then ...
(because the mp4/17 in 2002 wasn't, but it must had to do with the regulation changes that slowed down Ferrari more than the other teams ...)
@danygaming mate your answer can be a subject of a whole RUclips video. Great food for thought!
They should have copied Lotus and kept the same car for 3 years!......
Well if Ferrari had done this this season they would at least compete for the podium.
Back then the regulations from year to year isn’t as dramatic as it is right now... plus having extensive testings really helped many of the top teams like Ferrari,McLaren and Williams back then to be at the forefront of the grid
Its crazy to think that Kimi almost won with an interim car.
If Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button drove the 2003 and 2004 McLaren, their career would have been destroyed.
@GT012345tube i get what you saying but no, it aint the same, stop riding lewis sus butt
@GT012345tube 2009 mclaren was slow for the first 8-9 races and lewis barely scored until the big upgrades came
When you hire a genius like Newey, you should let him do his thing as he sees fit.
He’s massively overrated at this point surely
@@philthornton1382 not at all, he managed to keep a hugely disadvantaged red bull team competitive through pure aero and chassis design
@@philthornton1382 yet still manage to keep Red Bull a competitive top 3 team for years in the hybrid V6 turbo era purely on aero and chassis
@@philthornton1382 He won 10 titles with 3 different teams. What you see is respect not overrate.
@@philthornton1382 His cars have won championships in three different eras of F1, what's there to doubt about his capabilities?
If Mclaren went conservative with the strategy in the european gp of 2003. Kimi would've won the championship with only one race win
I still can’t cope with that fact bruh. It’s over
100% agree with this! Mclaren Mercedes had a brand new engine specification for that race and before the race Mercedes recommended the boost button which could give more power for limited amounts of time to only be used 6 times in the race when he needed it most. In fact, it was only after they found out that he had used it 15 times on the lap that it expired. So if they had gone conservative in their strategy and approach for that weekend he would have won the race and ultimately the championship. I think that young Kimi was incredibly quick but didn't quite have in his armoury how to get the car home, it was flat-out or nothing.
If there was not the lunatic on the track at Silverstone, Kimi would have score much more than 1 point than Michael.
@@drybones7475 not to mention his two mistakes of going off the track. Understandable experience sort of denied him but no one can’t how he took the fight to a prime Schumacher in an inferior car
@@chanchaniceman The SC was not due to racing incident but because of track invasion, in a way, the race was manipulated a bit like Germany 2000.
Kimi should be a 3 time champion, but we all know Kimi doesn't care
@Diamond Dog i think nobody apart ftom him knows
2003 was just one engine failure which cost him the title. I guess the title is Schumacher's. But in 2005 he completely dominated the season, got pole by half a second at Monaco, and was usually a few seconds ahead of Alonso. The bad luck for him was consistent though, and the title was sadly gone.
Nope, he shouldn't. One title is enough for him - trashed by Alonso, destroyed by Vettel and beaten by Massa and Heidfeld. He would be the by far worst multiple WDC in the F1 history if he had won 2003 and 2005, luckily it didn't happen.
Also he made dumb mistakes in both seasons -
2003 : bottled Australia - qualifiyng, handed Fisichella the win in Brazil, bottled Spain - qualifiying, bottled Canada - qualifying and made mistakes vs Barrichello and Montoya in GB.
Now 2005 - stalled the engine in Australia, ignored instructions to avoid curbs in San Marino, flatspotted his tyres in Europe, spun in Italy and bottled Brazil - qualifiyng.
Prins van Oranje 😂😂😂
@@ciaronsmith4995Lol.... You dumbass. Alonso still made less mistakes than Kimi. Kimi had a much faster car and made more errors. He deserved to lose 2003 and 2005.
Massa was close to him in 2007, destroyed him in 2008 and was on his way to kick his ass again in 2009 - a mediocre driver like Massa was enough to beat Kimi... Lol, and let's not forget what Schumacher and Alonso did to him. Even fucking Fisichella and Bottas beat Massa with bigger margins than Kimi did...
P. S - Heidfeld was beaten by Montoya in his rookie season. When Montoya was in his rookie - season, he couldn't even come close to fucking Zonta in the title fight. Not to mention that Heidfeld also stated that Kubica is the most complete driver which he had as teammate.
This is a super sharp summary of the podcast; really nails delivering the feeling and meaning of all the details, in a short, snappy format. Well done again guys!
I was very invested in F1 back then and used to love the stories about this car is it happening in 2003. A great looking car. and can see its DNA in the 2005 car that was arguably the class of the field that year!
Whats I would love to see is Giorgio Piola's take on the car, especially the front wing. Most cars of the time had a lower section in the middle, where as the MP4-18 had two lower sections outside the Y250 area. why? also it seemed the slot gaps in the front wing went all the way to the nose and attached to the nose, another feature ever not seen on the grid!
Great eye mate! Would surely love to see Giorgio Piola's stunning graphics showcase the details of this machine.
Gaurav Kataria yeah I’m hoping The-Race will see this and get on it.
Back then there was no real Y250 vortex. The Y250 vortex area is behind the end of neutral area of the front wing where the flaps start. The Y250 vortex is created by them. Because of that there was no Y250 vortex. And because of that the section needed to be different. The flaps of the front wing were nothing else that the other teams used...just the nose of the MP4-19 was lower and similar to the F2001 of Ferrari in 2001. They did this, like Ferrari did in 2001, because it sealed the airstream under the nose. Also the concave nose itself. Ferrari did this first in 2001. The Slot gaps were also always like that during that era, sorry. Every front wings slot gaps went the whole way to the nose...since the B191 started these kind of front wings. But maybe i get you wrong here and do not understand what you mean exactly. But anyway - indeed the MP4-18 and MP4-19 copied the extreme aerodynamics of the Ferrari F2002 especially and the nose of the F2001 and took it to another extreme.
But it was a also a great looking car that was needed to make two steps at once to make it possible to develope the MP4-20.
Michaela Stockbauer I totally get what your saying.
I suppose I was not saying the y250 vortex but more that area.
For example on the f2003GA there is a slot gap in the wing all the way under the nose from end plate to end plate.
But on the mp4-18 the slot actually attaches to the side of the nose and doesn’t go behind or under the nose like normal convention at the time.
Also why all other cars seemed to dip in the centre (I believe a certain amount of the front wing could be lower in the rules. Hence Jordan and Benetton 2001 and Ferrari spoon shape) but McLaren Center section was actually higher than the middles.
Does remind me of the front splitter on the Ferrari 488 GTE.
FaithlessEmo Racing now i got you. But Newey did nothing new here. The center of the front wing higher - was not uncommon in F1 in the 90's. Just take a look at the Ferraris of John Barnard - the center of the front wing was higher. So this idea was nothing new. With the "nose-attachement" - if there really was one - you are right with that. But i just took a look (as i really do not remember this) but i cannot found a pic where the flap was attached to the nose...at least in the first few months it was not attached....would even be illogical as you could not adjust the flap...but anyway, probably i just do not remember an update later in the season and you are right, but an attached flap was also done before. Ferrari attached a third flap to the nose in 2001 in Free Practice in Malaysia. So it was not really a new idea either, just an old idea done in a different way, as it was with the wing bring higher in the center and not dipping. Even though it was an interesting car that took a lot of things to extremes, like the extreme packaging which started with the F2002. Personally i think Ferrari really was most innovative with the F2002 - F2004 - with these cars xtreme packaging, undercut of sidespods, sidepos further short and further away from the front tyres, modern engineering of F1 cars - to just name a few things - really started. The MP4-18 just tried to make two steps at once to catch Ferrari technologicaly. What was the right decision in my opinion, and it brought further developement to a revolution in cardesign which started with the F2002. And if you look close you clearly can see that Newey really took the concept of the F2002 and tried to make it more extreme. And he was right to do so, as there was no better concept than Ross&Rorys with these regulations...don!t get me wrong - Newey is great, but i do not think he deserves much credit at this era. At this era Rory Byrne clearly was the man who set standards together with Ross Brawn. As Newey was the Nr. 1 and got copied during the mid to late 90's especially, Brawn and Byrne were the Nr.1 in the early 00's and Newey copied them. Nothing wrong about that! and Newey went back to be Nr. 1 again a few years later at Red Bull. But the era of 2000-2006 was clearly Rory Byrnes era, and most, including Newey, copied him and was not really the innovative designer and Nr. 1 designer anymore, but he raised again - so credit where credit is due! At this era Byrne deserves it - later Newey AGAIN deserves it. But the Mp 4-18, sorry if i say this, was a copy of the F2002 with Newey trying to take this concept to extremes...to make two steps at once...and again - even if he failed in the first place - he was right to do so! Otherwise McLaren would not have been able to catch Ferrari within 3 years!
But anyway - thank you for reminding me of an interesting feature(even if the idea was not new, its interesting!)i totally forgot obviously! I really have to dig deep in my archive to remind myself of the MP4-18's front wing! And don't get me wrong about Newey - it just was not his time obviously, Byrne&Brawn were setting the standards and innovations in that era.
Good old times...Newey vs. Brawn&Byrne from 94-2004! F1 s best era in my opinion...then technical reglement just got worse and worse.
Such a shame Mclaren wasted so much time and resources to this car, especially because like said if they had not and just focused on developing the older car, Kimi might have taken the 2003 championship....especially more shameful was that the following season car in 2004 which was in my understanding evolution of MP4-18 was also extremely unreliable for the first half of the season atleast, so its really a shame Mclaren essentially ruined their 2004 season as well because of this car
Wasting time is one thing but a team like mclaren shouldn't have even found themselves in a position like that anyway. Also as great as newey is if he hadn't wanted away, a restructure at mclaren wouldnt have happened and the b spec car used in 2004 would have been the car to either finish 2003 or atleast start 2004.
Ferrari still would of kicked there ass no problem 😉
It was not only upgrades. Mclaren strategy kinda sold some races.
That 19-B has the first modern shaped side pods and the 2005 is one of the most beautiful modern cars ever.
Kimi is a true racer. As such, I am sure the entire paddock is in quiet awe of him. For me he will always be in the pantheon of true racers. Long may he have a steering wheel and pedals and a track to play on.
So we could still expect the full reveal of the MP4-18 sometime soon.....
And Mika Hakkinen has never officially retired. Mika to race in the MP4-18 this year
It would be better than anything McLaren could produce now.
6:43 "...a fleet of MP4-18s"
*shows a fleet of Mercedes trucks
The cars are in the trucks......
what do you think they drove the cars to the tracks?
Can't we just appreciate the visual and audioa quality of the video? The silhouette of Michael Schumacher appearing in red smoke, sounds of engine, fire extinguisher and screwdrivers during the testing part?
As a video editor & F1 fan I just want to say your videos look absolutely exquisite! Outstanding work all round.
Best looking F1 car ever, IMO.
Ur eyes need to be checked out
Jim Clark’s Lotus 49, Brabham BT46, McLaren MP4/4, Ferrari F2004, Brawn BGP 001 imo are the top 5
SF900 looks great
Respect his opinion not everybody loves the f2004
@@reimelong9671 11 year old girl
"A team trying to win a championship with an updated version of the predecessor is unheardof today"
Mercedes 2021?
Am I right in thinking this was the year that Kimi could/should maybe have won the F1 WC but due to the radical nature of the design, that impeded the title charge more than anything else?
If memory serves me right, Kimi would have been the youngest F1 Champion in history if he'd won...
McLaren wasted all of its resources on this car. Ferrari just proved they were the stronger team (also politically) and that made the difference.
Ciaron Smith Definitely better than Alonso’s 2012 season. That car’s been bashed to no end, but its developments throughout the season obviously made it at least decently competitive. Definitely more competitive than a year-old concept.
Nice video, I remember that the intiial aunch was set for either Imola or Catalunya but it was quickly pushed backed to Canada and by that time it was either Monza (last 3 races) or no go.
The Ferrari 2003-GA made its debut in Barcelona but it was Kimi that made a mistake in qualifying and crashed at the start from the back of the grid just like he spun off in Canada qualy, there was also bad luck in both German races when his engine blew up in Nurburg and he was crashed out in Hockenheim, those were 18p that went down the drain, actually 20 if you take into account Schumacher's extra position.
Also, the funny thing is it all went down to Michelin vs Bridgestone on wet conditions in Indy, had it stayed dry, there would've been a huge surprise in Suzuka as Kimi was blinding fast there and Schumacher was struggling behind but when it started to rain, Bridgestones were unbeatable on their intermediates.
As Kimi described the car: "It took some corners so fucking well, but then in the next corner it completely fell apart"
The MP4-19 was indeed an upgraded MP4-18 - nothing else! They redesigned the Splitter, undertray and the frontwing and some inner detail - and that was the "new" MP4-19.
Yeah true
MP4-19B starting with Magny-Cours 2004 was the car McLaren should've lined up in Australia 2003...
Who was at fault? Well, I wasn't there, but on the basis of this video I think it's clear who was at fault. When Bert in the McLaren canteen changed the recipe for his fabulous Tomato soup there was simply no way that the team could remain focussed on bringing reliability to the MP4-18 whilst still having to pursue the 17D. Croutons? What on Earth were McLaren thinking?
Oh, and Paddy Lowe
Lmao Paddy Lowe, what a meme. Newey always proves his ingenuity, not even sure what happened to Lowe when he went to Williams, makes me doubt if Mercedes’s dominance had anything to do with him
Even tho there’s a case to be made that both were at fault. Newey putting aero designs,technology and ideas that were way way ahead of its time that pushed beyond the limits what the car can take. McLaren shooting Kimi Raikkonen and themselves on each foot for both 2003 and 2004,by putting little development on the MP4-17D and then taking the 2003 car by just changing its name change rather listening to Newey’s suggestions for a redesign which could have prepared McLaren so well for 2004 rather than the complete shit load of disasters they went through
6-7 years later Newey would have the last laugh as his Red Bull cars would incorporate many of the ideas like blown exhaust diffusers and tight rear end while winning 4 titles on the trot with Vettel on the wheel. The MP4-18 may had failed but I would say it wasn’t in vain since many of its earlier tech would be applied by Newey on his title winning cars at Red Bull
Back in the days when you can do actual testing...
The fact the MP4/19 was an MP4/18 direct derivation reveals just how good "on paper", but bad in practice were the concepts behind the car.
What's even more baffling was how competitive was the MP4/17 in his 2003 "D" specification when compared with its predecessor - Maybe, was there some potential to unlock? Or did McLaren found his way better with the new regulations?
Those McLarens looked beautiful back in the day.
They look better than cars today
Its easy to forget that even the likes of ferrari used to bring last years car to the first few races. Now its only the back markers with financial struggles that find it hard to get the new car to pre season testing. Is this down to new streamling technologies or just the sheer number of workforce in the factories?
The incredible raw pace of the 2005 car shows just how much potential the MP4-18 had: when Newey nailed most of what he'd aimed for, the design was dominant - even 2 years late.
2005 car wasn't even as good until they made some changes to the aero and came with a new engine in Spain, Kimi was hardly keeping up with the BAR of Jenson Button at the beginning of the season.
MP4-18 and MP4-19 were the most beautiful cars of the V10 era in my opinion
MP4-19B. The MP4-19 was ugly and slow
That is one gorgeous looking car!!
Absolutely love this video format, keep posting more content like this. 👍🏾
To me, if I had been Ron Dennis, I would have prioritised Raikkonen's title push in 2003 with the 17D. Once it became clear that the 18 was requiring a lot more work, I would have said, "this car can win if we work on it, but as Kimi is in contention with the 17D, we need to finish races with what we have at the moment. The car we're testing can be worked for next year, modifying the chassis if necessary to allow the drivers more confidence when driving,"
Shame it never raced as I remember seeing it in the monthly magazine for the first time as it was the best looking f1 car I’d ever seen. You can see the pedigree that followed, up to the 08 car.
You can see that the DNA of the MP4-20 carried on in the Red Bull RB3 and RB4.
@@ciaronsmith4995 but those cars weren't as successful.
@@stfubar2365 They didn't have as good of a power unit.
The neon outlining @5m has stayed in my eyes!!!
"Mclaren's Matix System"....still makes me laugh
Wurz revealed during Austrian TV program couple of years ago, that he crashed so often and that he called Dennis one day that he is sick of crashing it.
Bring Back our beloved V10!
Bring back TUPAC and Michael Jackson
Bring back Molson Indy Vancouver and the 2.65L turbo V8’s in Indycar.
"The McLaren MP4-18 is the most famous unraced car in Formula 1 history."
Read about a very radical/flawed test plane today and instantly thought of the MP4-18, the nostalgia!
Jeeez. Feels like McLaren was toxic during the years before Zak Brown took over.
Now Andreas Seidl came to save us
Hopefully!
One of the best looking F1 Cars of all time imo.
Would you share the link to your 'Bring back V10's' podcast please? I'd like to listen to it and I've looked but can't see it.
Love the transitions between chapters in this mclaren saga. I’m looking for a template of that exact style (seen similar in others I subscribe to too), can you point me in the right direction? Cheers
So glad you guys started The Race, Autosport was whack. Without you guys, it's literally the most boring channel on RUclips lol
5:17 thought it was obama
I’d advise changing your logo guys as it’s identical to the one of Racing TV. Just thinking to avoid problems further down the line
Imagine how different Formula 1 would have been if Newey moved to Jaguar with more commitment from Ford & maybe even no Red Bull.
Wow That is a BIG what if.
Even the best engineers lay an egg once in a while
These videos were underrated
I remember being a frustrated mclaren Fan during the time. Wasted Mercedes Benz’s efforts and usher in a winless decade. It wasted Raikonnen’s time and let ferrari run away with championships unchallenged until Renault did something about it
Newey has proven time and again that he knows better than team management, so stat out of his way and let him get on with it
I blame Erickson for sure
Such a stunning car too bad it wasn't up to point. Hopefully they correct the issues then.
The problem is often that designers only look at data obtained from wind tunnel tests. Cars that seem to work perfectly there do not always work perfectly on the track. See this year´s Red Bull.
Notification Gang! Thanks for supplying us with amazing content in the absence of this amazing sport.
The mad thing is that this is the only car off the top of my head that Adrian Newey really dropped the ball.
"The car always returned with something on fire"......That might be problematic for a car powered by petrol Adrian!......
Thanks for this. I love this video.
Kimi: throw the steering wheel hard.
20 years later and then damn side pods were an issue for merc again
Is there any footage of MP4-18? I haven't found anything on youtube.
Long time ago I found one where Wurz had his big accident with this car.
Hindsight is 20/20 should've left him alone, Newey always knew what he's doing 😂
Does seem silly to hire, arguably the greatest race car designer ever, just to tell him to do as he's told.
I dont get why CEOs always argue with the experts... at the end they end up with a very late solution for twice the price.
I can understand McLaren's decision to separate the design procedures to more people.Andrian Newey is an ingenious engineer but he was putting the team at risk.
Sorry the MP4-18 was NOT the car that started the extreme packaging that is common in F1 today - that was clearly the F2002. McLaren clearly tried to take a bigger step - but that bite also was too big, as we saw. But the extreme packaging was started by Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn with the F2002, whichs concepts McLaren copied and tried to develope even more extreme solutions. So - honour where honour is due - the invention of xtreme packacking belongs to Rory Byrne, as does many inventions aerodynamically &mechanically in this era(drum-type brake coolings, step in the diffusor, vortices creators, Uprights in new inovative Metal-Matrix Material, modern ways of engineering of building an F1 Car still applied today, one piece wishbone etc.).
I always thought Ferrari cars went through evolutions though 2001-2004. Rory Bryne worked with Schumacher during the Benetton years.
They just switched cars mid-season? I mean I guess they started the season with the old car, still sounds kinda unfair if they didn't develop the car in time
Where is the podcast of 'bring back the v10s'
the-race.com/formula-1/bring-back-v10s-podcast-what-went-wrong-with-the-mclaren-mp4-18/
McLaren seems during those years, to have squandered opportunities to take championships, from internal politics as your excellent story explained. Kimi had Schumacher on the ropes frequently.
Great video on a fascinating car
16 seconds lol clicked so fast cuz McLaren is life
u are absolutely right friend...that is what exactly Adrian Newey described in his autobiography.
Where is this podcast??
Here you go!
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s1-e3-mclaren-mp4-18-the-car-too-flawed-to-race/id1502628252?i=1000470262321
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/0aFPeIcmOobVsLuq2a2ZDj
READ MORE
the-race.com/formula-1/the-most-famous-unraced-car-in-f1-history/
@@WeAreTheRace thank you!!!
I do miss the V10 screams of yesteryear but nothing lasts forever.
If kimi had won the 03 and 05 title then Michael would be 6 times and nando only 1 title...
As it should’ve been. Kimi almost won a damn title with an outdated car, he absolutely deserved the 03 WDC.
If alonso had won the championships in 2007,2010,2012....then he would still have 4 championships
there is no video without video
Song?
Looking at the performance of the MP4-19 in early 2004 you clearly see that Newey was right. That was the MP4-18.
I think they just lied to avoid the bad publicity this car collected already.
This concept was flawed in his beginnings, but was the base for all Mclaren f1 cars up until 2008.
I'm lost here.... McLaren video but I only see Mercedes Benz stuff. Were they together back then?
Yup. They were a succesful partnership in the late 90's and fast but unreliable in early 00's.
@@djokernolecristi3279 ok, tyvm for the reply. I was a bit confused. Lol😊 many blessings to you and yours DjokerNole. Be well and safe.
Sara Sarah McLaren and Mercedes are partners again for 2021 so expect them to may be a front running team
@Ajvanho Interesting, seems like Football teams and the endless revolving door of players in and out as well as managers going from team to team....motorsports has a lot involved. They keep messing with my head, IM GOING TO RELEGATE THE LOT.😋 be well Ajvanho.
@@tanoooo first and foremost. I found my driver name...SARA MCLAREN.💜 so big ups to you for that. Be well SRX.😊as always GO MCLAREN!!!!!!!!!!👍
Räikkönen should have been driven number 5 and DC number 6 (first time since his first full season in 1995)
The Ferrari F-2002 already had a very tight package so it's wrong to say this McLaren was the first step towards it.
I feel like a car that really was way ahead of its time technology wise and took an approach that basically pushed the limits of it. It’s just a massive shame McLaren shot Kimi in the foot and themselves for next year by putting way too much resources to this car when they could update the 2002 car plus the regulations from 2002 and 2003 weren’t that different
Like I commented on another video: Ferrari and McLaren have something in common: they often obstacle themselves thanks to internal "political" problems.
If you need to sleep being all ears to this video... 🙂
I know it was flawed, but what a great looking car it was
When a guy known for designing great cars turns around and says he made a mistake and it needs a redesign, you listen. The fact two other guys outvoted him shows a level of stubborn ignorance just so one person does not have too much power. Newey messed up, he realised he messed up, but McLaren shot itself in the foot by not listening to him.
Im pretty sure that Mike Coughlan was responsible for that car, it had carbon everything, gbox, carbon uprights, many composite parts. Budget of 8 million and ended up close to 16million. Newey was dreaming of designing boats at the time not really that committed, thats why Ron had to make changes in the design team.
I can see why this would make a good podcast. The visuals add nothing. 😒
Its obvious the failed design lays squarely on Newey's shoulders, but that isn't all bad. It was effectively transforming F1 design to where we are today. Great ideas generally include great risk, unfortunately for McLaren it didn't pay off. Please don't look at this as letting McLaren off the hook, as this is rarely a one man issue, but I think it's clear Newey owns the lion's share.
That car was a joke but still better than the 2015 McLaren Honda
Bad, or not, it's surely one of the most beautiful McLaren F1 cars
What happened that meant Kimi didn’t win in 2005?
McLaren really shot themselves in foot pushing/driving Newey away.
I always thought the 17d was a beautiful car and fast as hell 😁
Wait a sec the 2002 Merc was smoked by Ferrari f2002 but the updated version of Mclarens 2002 car is keeping Kimi in the title race. How did that happen ?
Mercedes wasn’t a team in 2002
Newey is underrated. Man could bring a championship to any team he wants if he has the right ppl backing him. These Mclaren bois were holding this genius back
They were holding him back quite heavily by the sounds of it
I don't know about Newey being underated. He's the man credited for red bull's success
Hence why he left for Red Bull
Adrian faced the same exact situation at Williams during the 1996 season. Frank Williams and Patrick Head promised Newey involvement in driver decisions. HHF was hired behind Newey's back to company Jack Villeneuve. Newey left Williams after the breach of promise.
Hence why Newey is STILL at Red Bull.😤
Basically, McLaren having reliability issues as normal.
The 15 years from 2000 to 2015 were horrible for mclaren, with a toxic environment, element of the team (heads to drivers) that really should have been surgically removed and a smug e proud attitude that caused the downfall. The biggest problem was, of course, Ron Dennis.
Interested in the story but this was a tough watch. Dull presentation.