The incredible story of how McLaren and Mercedes split up in F1
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2021
- McLaren returned to using Mercedes engines in Formula 1 in 2021, after six seasons apart. It's a reunion of sorts for a partnership that lasted 20 years first time around, and netted plenty of wins and three drivers' titles with Mika Hakkinen and Lewis Hamilton. Mercedes even owned a stake in McLaren first time around - so where did it go wrong? Why did they split up, and what convinced Mercedes to go it alone and buy its own team? In this video, Glenn Freeman revisits an article written by Mark Hughes for The Race website to explain everything that was going on behind the scenes to lead to the break-up first time around.
READ MORE HERE
the-race.com/formula-1/the-in...
Subscribe: the-race.com/youtube_subscribe
Website: the-race.com/
Twitter: / wearetherace
Instagram: / wearetherace
Facebook: / wearetherace
Podcasts: the-race.com/podcasts
Thanks for watching - please like, share and comment, please also hit subscribe to show your support so we'll keep doing what we're doing.
#F1 #Mercedes #McLaren
www.the-race.com
/ wearetherace 
Спорт
I recall Martin Brundle making the observation that McLaren could have a car designed by Adrian Newey, powered by a works Mercedes engine and driven by Lewis Hamilton. Yet Ron Dennis managed to alienate all parties.
Yeah Adrian Newey doesn't hold back in bagging Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh in his book.
Although, to his credit...Ron Dennis did get two out of three in the late 90s. A car designed by Newey, works Mercedes engines (yeah they were built by Ilmor, close enough)...the only difference was having Mika Hakkinen drive it instead of Lewis
@@ahogg5960 Close enough. Mika was amazing.
@@directorofnolearning they had kimi for a long time too shame that mclaren was never reliable
@@davidngqkalone88 Kimi was a like-for-like replacement for Mika. He was astonishing in his McLaren years, particularly 2005.
@@directorofnolearning he absolutely deserved to win at least one world title with mclaren. 2005 Japanese grand prix should go down as one of the all time great drives, while 2005 nurburgring was cruel.
People easily forget just how much Ross Brawn has contributed to dominant F1 teams in the past 2 decades.
He was an integral part of the Benetton drivers and constructors titles with Schumacher in 1994 and 1995. He was a key player in the dominant Ferrari team in the early 2000s, won the constructors and drivers titles with a rebranded, but still dying Honda F1 team, and lifted that team up from the dust to prepare it for the single most dominant F1 stint in history with Mercedes.
I have confidence that the 2022 technical regs are safe in his hands.
Real fans don't.
The problem however is that your average F1 fan on youtube, is a kid, who's never bothered to look into the sport.
@@Orcawhale1 there will always be real fans and there will always be kids on youtube, welcome to the future. Ross Brawn didn’t bring the RUclips kids to F1 but he isn’t going to miss an opportunity to turn some of them into real fans by engaging on their level/platform. F1 is a business, always will be, real fans are the result of good business. That’s what my 96 yo grandfather thinks anyway and he grew up watching Fangio.
Schumacher didn't win a single title without Ross Brawn. Everything Ross touched eventually turned into gold. Heck, even *Button* won a championship thanks to Brawn's genius.
@@Orcawhale1 damn who took a shit in your cheerios
@@notanthony2753 The kids, obviously.
So alonso effectively set off the chain of events that led to hamilton becoming the most successful F1 driver in history
🤣
Im pretty pretty sure Hamilton is not the more succesful driver in history, not even in numbers for now
@@thesucker2002 I’m curious how to came to that conclusion, what key stats is Hamilton not 1st in or near the top in?
@@thesucker2002 most wins, most pole positions, most podiums, tied in number of championships, how is he not the most successful?
@@thesucker2002 uhm wtf? in numbers he is definetly? or is there someone i forgot about who has more race wins, more wdc or more Poles?
“You’ve moved from McLaren to Mercedes. Isn’t that like moving from Manchester United to West Ham?” oh Jeremy how you were VERY wrong
Should have been Manchester United to Manchester City
Thats like moving to west ham one season before they get a new investor and buy neymar, kdb and kimmich
He was right at the time, the comment just aged like milk.
Comment aged different
Well, after Spain it aged bad
F1: How many scandals are you part of?
McLaren: yes
Ferrari: Si!
Renault: Bonjour
Red Bull: Nah we are just jumping in pools and enjoying the party.
@@dschulieen You must be using those wings as trampolines
@@tanmay4217 Renault: Touche!
What I'll say is, the name 'McLaren-Mercedes' has a ring to it. It just sounds right.
Yeah true
We always called in mercedes mclaren.
I think that sounds better.
@@NiSiochainGanSaoirse maybe but
In f1 we usually put the chassi manufacturer name first then the engine name
my dad says mercedes to mclaren (he watched until end of 2009 and we watch again now) and everytime i correct him :D
Mac 'n Cheese?
I adore the papaya but the things I would do to have a chrome McLaren back on the grid...
Rather see it in it's gorgeous Gulf livery next season. That was glorious!
I much prefer the McLarens from the West days. The drivers' names with the West striping on the side pods was lit
@@halofreak1990 Seconded. The West liveries are just timeless.
I prefer classic orange. Like it was with Bruce. Also I'm really glad that now Mclaren always separate itself from Mercedes.
well, i would love to see a modern McLaren with red and white Marlboro livery
Ah, McLaren's arrogance. I've always been a McLaren fan but their refusal to admit that they messed up really drives me up the wall, even for their road car division. Thank God we have Andreas Seidl from Porsche.
Same, fan here so I'm very happy to see better leadership from Seidl and Zak pushing the team forward
That was always the problem I found with Ron Dennis. He never seemed to move with the times and adapt new habits. Like Williams, he thought what worked in the 80s and 90s would work in the modern era and it hasn't. Whitmarsh was the same to an extent. Hence why McLaren haven't won a constructors title in 22 years.
@@alexpeak16 wait McLaren didn’t win it in 2008?
Zak +seidl instrumental in bringing the team back on track
@@09Mrsubaru He's talking about the constructors championship.
I can’t imagine they’d still be together today unless McLaren sold up entirely to Merc but they kept the name
There is a possibility Mercedes leaves F1 as a team,and stays as an engine manufacturer
Hamilton to Mercedes : The best move in F1 history for me
I mean who would deny it? It was this move that Hamiltion surpassed so many records, that is ridiculous to think what could have been if he didn´t made this move. Imagine another driver achiving all of this wins streak, maybe Nico Rosberg taking it all? Or another dirver? Who knows....
Schumacher to Ferrari. The 1996 Ferrari was mediocre at best.
When Hamilton moved into Mercedes in 2014, the car was guaranteed to be a title winner. If Schumacher didn't leave the team that year, he might have won another title or two.
@@TheBje551 if hamilton hadnt moved to mercedes im sure vettel would have clinched the championship away from mercedes in 17 -18 given mercedes having rosberg as their no 1 driver like aee how close vettel was to rosberg in 2015 even with a massively inferior car .
@@AndyFromBeaverton Correct. Though it was 2013 when Hamilton moved already. The facts where very clearly laid out to him by Lauda, Mercedes factory support dropped from Mclaren, the amount of money Mercedes invested in the new regs, how far ahead they already where...on top of that Ron Dennis gave Lewis a lower paid new contract whereas mercedes offered him a lot more than Dennis wanted to give.
I have more respect for Schumachers move.
False. best move goes to Alonso
Mosley was more based than I thought he was. FIA should favor independent teams who are bound to F1 rather car-makers who fly from the scene as soon as they dont like the way sport goes.
"Mosley was more based than I thought" careful where you say that lmao (google Oswald Mosley, his father)
@@_Azagoth_ Oswald was based as fuck also
It might be just too late for that. F1 almost went on a meltdown last year just because Honda was leaving, and they're only an engine supplier.
@@vitman2409 why? You like fascism?
@Scom Tott should have known
Another twist to the story: Ron Dennis bringing Honda back to the sport could ultimately beat Mercedes this year, I imagine Ron will be happy to see RedBull take the Merc crown with the engine he brought back to F1.
Mercedes will ultimately come back and annihilate your beloved Red Bull Honda. Ready your tissues. It's going to be a teary end of the season for you
@@arnoldmbuthia2687 It isn't the RB fans who are crying, mate
i really have a strong feeling that honda will leave its mark on F1's history before they finally pull out off the sport... Ending Mercedes Domination by a japanese manufacturer that once a laughing stock of F1's engine suppliers... if this continues reality will been nearly seen in our very own eyes that their domination will be over...
@@arnoldmbuthia2687 maybe. Just maybe. Big rule changes so who knows, we will wait and see.
Not totally sure anything can make Ron Dennis happy
10:05 "Hit that button..." *while* *showing* *footage* *of* *Jenson* *Button.*
Tell me you did that on purpose.
😂😂😂
2009 was an amazing season...I was in a new relationship with a woman who was not into F1 at all but thought that a driver named Button was adorable and had to be a winner...we watched every race together, getting up in the middle of the night, she was so excited with every win, it was more fun than any other season for me. Good times.
Amazing video! 👏👏👏
Boteco F1 tá em todos o videos de f1 que eu vejo
This proves the preasure and politics in F1 is seriously real and cut throat...
@@kevindwelle1625 true
I bet Ron sometimes wakes up screaming "WHITMARSH".
Like how James reacts to Clarkson stealing his Bonnet while doing a shoddy job at it?
The next day, the peaceful post-celebration of the 2009 world championship was shattered by the cry of a wild animal
Ron: WHITMARSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE, YOU PILLOCK!!!!!
Would like a video on Spygate, which was never really covered in this domain. Few people really know what went on apart from those who closely followed the court hearings.
plenty of other channels have made videos on it, go watch them
@@fkez0510 already know that. Peoplewant to see The Race's perepective on it because surely they have more info on their hand.
A different channel does a really good spygate documentary. I forgot the channel. They also covered crashgate, another scandal Fernando Alonso was involved in
@@fdhlmr It won't be as detailed imo.
Why do people still add "gate" to any scandal story - Watergate was the actual name of the building and was just shy of 50 years ago, please it's time
for some original thought.
I was just wondering today that there's so much history to f1 and I had to watch this video to quench my thirst
lots of new information for me, shocking really
I think the more interesting question would be, how would the story of McLaren have played out if Ron Dennis wasn't so damn proud and stubborn?
Ron Dennis made 2 of his biggest mistake in 2009.
1) Handing the team to Whitmash who was a complete idot.
2) Giving up the veto for Mercedes power.
McLaren were the toxic entity. I don’t blame any of the drivers that got caught up in the melee
Ask Raikkonen, Hamilton, Button, Hakkinen if they were "toxic"
@@fgp3843 I only read positive comments from him.
Also, same thing happened and is happening to Mercedes and in any other team. It's a common practice.
Bruh Jenson button went to Brawn in '09 as they used Mercedes backed engines iirc
And now McLaren are almost to there best with no negative or toxic idiots in the team
@@fgp3843 I didnt know about this. Is it normal for teams to swap members like that? I remember the 2016 Rosberg/Hamilton team swap. Just wanna know if it's common coz it's kinda sus. Why did McLaren and Mercedes swap members within the team after Hamilton won championships for those teams?
Well now I know why they say to give space in a relationship
All the time you have to leave the space!
@@jasonpwright perfect
The race please do the spy gate scandal. Otherwise love your content
I second that one!
there's plenty of other channels that have made videos on the whole thing, go check them out
@@fkez0510 Already seen them but another point of view is good to have. Some tend to leave certain things out and this channel is very thorough.
They're not gonna do it...British F1 media is biased AF
@@lordmaximus no that topic is dead. Everything that could be said about it, was said atleast twice over the last 14 years.
I'm new to F1, and seriously enjoy these videos. Getting up to speed on the history between these teams, the suppliers, and the drivers.
The funny thing is that Daimler was concerned about its reputation - something which was clearly forgotten about with the whole emissions scandal....
Snitches get stitches, but not when you're a corporation, I guess.
Volkswagen was the company with the emission scandal - not Mercedes? Aren’t you confusing two different German companies I think.
@@mattbilello6229 VW and BMW are the only ones who get fined, Daimler didn't as they ratted them out.
The emissions scandal that EVERY major manufacturer is implicated in?
@@mattbilello6229 BMW, Mercedes and VW cheated emissions. Only Daimler got out scuff free because they ratted the other 2 out.
The level and quality of content The Race creates is simply next level! Well done gents. 👊🏼
As a Mclaren fan this makes me sad
@@manu-tonyo9654 I've known about this for years. Just hearing it all again makes me feel unhappy for a team I've supported for years.
@@manu-tonyo9654 "Maybe if I act all tough with zero information on what this guy knows or not, I'll sound correct and mature and that'll make me look good!"
I'm a McLaren fan and this made me sad too, doesn't mean I can't accept it and move ahead.
Me too mate,but then I remember that The McLaren of now is very different to what the past McLaren was and thank god they are better and are moving in the right direction. Can't wait to see them win again!
Great. It's videos like this that made me subscribe in the first instance. Great historical informative content. The behind the scenes stuff is fascinating. More please. 🙏
Mclarens 100million fine is ridiculous. Several other teams like Renault did the same and barely any actions were taken
Max Mosley was always an enemy to McLaren and a lover of Ferrari. He was the most biased FIA director after that old French doucheb guy during the Senna/Prost era. I don't remember his name and I don't want to google for it
@@fastcougar3200 Jean-Marie Balestre
yes 100m like wtf??
@@LuisFernandoRubin Oui.
Clearly a personal vendetta of Mosley against Ron. Even Ecclestone admitted it.
Due to being excluded from constructors points in the Hungarian GP for "unrqual treatment of their drivets" in qualifying, McLaren scored less points than Ferrari in 2007 anyway.
I feel like it McLaren had been a little more patient and a little less toxic, they'd be where Red Bull is right now. It's kinda sad. No matter. Every forward
THANK YOU ! I was waiting for this
How many time are you going to leave a team in a haze of toxicity?
Alonso: yes.
'could you be the ambassador of peace` -YES :D
funny fact is he had that "toxicity" only in McLaren ;/
@@efecan311 hahaha it aged like milk
@TheRealPiber
Not according to Christian Hohner
3:50 Better than the Vanity Fair photo of the cast from The Expendables.
10:06 "Hit that button" with a background footage of Button, perfect composition. (Not to mention that many would like to hit that Button as well.)
By "hit" you mean in the sexy way? Because Jenson is too nice to have enemies
Love these sorts of videos from you guys
A great recap of a fascinating period in recent F1 history.
Another intriguing video please keep up with the great content I love it. Would you guys at The Race please consider doing a video about the racing career of Carlos Reutemann you recently passed away. I would love to know more about him I never knew until today that he was almost a F1 world champion in 1981.
Nice
Super nice video, probably and editors cut extended version will be fantastic.
This was the level of content I was expecting from netflix but instead..... Glad you guys exist and fill the gap
This just shows how much change has happened at McLaren. I questioned the appointment of Zak but what a job he is doing. The team seems to be heading in a good direction. Let’s see what 2022 brings 👍🏼
Surprised you didn’t mention the acquisition of Hamilton from McLaren in 2013 but otherwise a great video 👍
Love these! Nice work 🔥
Very interesting video on a subject not often talked about on mainstream F1 sites/channels.
Honda keeps making winners, it just takes some lows to get there.
I enjoyed this story once when I read Hughes' article, and now once again. Painful, but enlightening. Thanks, The Race.
By far,the best f1 based channel. Amazing content and quality. Top class
What goes around comes around. Magnificent narrative 👏
Might of been shit to start with, but that 2009 McLaren was definitely a looker
The spy scandal is one of the most interesting behind the scenes stories in F1, especially who knew what since there are quite a few conflicting stories on this saga..so please yes do a special
This was a cool video! Thanks 🙏
Well presented!👏
Dennis was a legend in his time, but thank god McLaren is now under the stewardship of Brown and Seidl. Like a completely different team now...
Yeah, one that can barely enter Q3. LOL
@@fastcougar3200 I guess you haven’t been watching 2021 races. McLaren is on the way up with still the best engine on the grid from Mercedes. We will see next year with the new aero regs that the teams will be much closer to each other than this year. Total credit belongs to Zak Brown who was smart to hire Seidl 3 years ago and hire James Key as head of technical development. Zak knew his limitations and brought in the right principal and development leader to move McLaren forward and also did a great job getting through the financial difficulties McLaren had in 2019 and 2020 from COVID. McLaren has a plan and ar3 making strides toward being a consistent top 3 team.
@@fastcougar3200 Norris almost got pole last week. LOL
@@fastcougar3200 and now they won the Italian GP
@@svanefossen Yes, and how many GPs Dennis won?
Give us full detail of the 2007 season of SpyGate(McLaren)
There’s a few videos on it in full detail already
Great video guys
That one dessision alone of Ron Dennis not only cost them the 2009 World Champion, but also cost them a partner engine supplier and gained them a new title contender for the new feature. “ Ironic, He could save others from death, but not himself.”
McLaren made the right decision in the year 2014 by swapping Mercedes engine with Honda after the pre-season test engine swap saga...
I can't quite tell if there is sarcasm in this comment or not...
Either way, it wasn't at first but eventually became so when Red Bull started to use the Honda power units.
NOW look at where that engine sits!
"taking power away from the big teams to help the independent teams"Max Moseley was the visionary we all needed , just wasn't in F1 at the right time
We need more videos like that to understand some changes in f1
Great explanation mate thank you
Yes I want to know about the scandal
go to WTF1, and search "Biggest fines in f1"
Mclaren is a totally different team under brown for the better
50 cent for each post?
@@fastcougar3200 no I’m just a big fan of brown and the new mclaren
an analysis on the 2007 season and the spygate would be excellent as your analyses are quite professional
YES! Definitely do a video on the McLaren fine and the inerter story! Super interested to see that!
What about all the engineers that fleed from Mclaren to Mercedes, the stubborness of the size zero engine and having that toxic relationship with their engine partner (Honda). Also the token system which prevented new teams to develop. Structural changes had to be done, and new leadership too, none of these is said in the video. Now Mclaren is far different from where they were, in a solid performance, and Honda is leading F1 championship.
How is McLaren being dicks to Honda, along with most of the other stuff you mentioned, relevant to this particular video? This is a video specifically about how McLaren's works arrangement with Mercedes came to an end, not about the decline suffered by McLaren in the 2010s.
So Mosley was trying to save F1 from what it is now, more based than I initially gave him credit for
And here he is playing favourites with Mercedes...
He might as well be trialed for match/race fixing!
Mosley isn't all fine and dandy either, he failed to materialize F1's previous attempt at cost cap (which is now to be begin in 2022)
What an amazing video! I'd love to see a more in depth video about the 2007 spygate scandal!
More historical stories. These are awesome
WE WANT THE 100 MILLION DOLLAR FINE SAGA CONTENT.
Please.
McLaren never used any of the Ferrari information. In fact Ron went ballistic and turned everything over to the FIA the moment he heard anything about it. Funny how nothing happened to the _two other teams_ which got info from some Italian mechanics or engineers, who ended up in court in Italy but got away with it. In the same year IIRC. The fine was so huge because Mosely was a dick who hated Ron Dennis. It was that big because he could make it that big. It was literally out if spite. I'll credit him for his work towards safer racing, but he was a despicable creature.
It's funny how Liberty want more manufacturers in F1 now, isn't it? After Mosely's desire to get rid of them.
yea 100m is just plain ridiculous
Yeah i get so frustrated when people say McLaren "got caught". yeah my ass got caught. Ffs it was literally Ron Dennis who went to FIA after he found out Alonso had some of the info.
please do a video on the scandal itself, i’ve always been interested on the subject but never researched it thoroughly
Nice video as always. I'd like to see your take on the Spy Scandal.
Fun fact: McLaren wouldn't have won the 2007 constructors championship without the disqualification.
They scored 15 points at the Hungarian Grand Prix, but these were taken off them thanks to the incident in qualifying. So they would have lost to Ferrari by 1 point.
Good stuff though, really enjoy these videos 👍🏻
are you sure about that? those pts were already deducted right ..and the table they showed in this vid is correct I think
@@lonewolf4 Alonso and Hamilton both scored 109 points, so that makes 218. Minus the 15 points that makes 203.
(The points deduction was for constructors points but Hamilton and Alonso kept their drivers championship points)
@@newcastlegeorge oh ok 💯 now im less pissed😆
@@lonewolf4 all good mate 🙂
The final years of the Ron Dennis regime were horrible for McLaren. Zak Brown and Andreas Seidl have however done a great job getting McLaren back on track, and in my opinion, their first win since Brazil 2012 is imminent. The only issue in the team is the bad performance of Daniel Ricciardo. I hope he finds his mojo soon, he already showed some of his divebomb genius recently, but he's too inconsistent. IMO McLaren will clinch P3 this year, but it's difficult when they're carried by only one driver with Lando.
And on a final note: I'd love the Marlboro colours they had for over two decades to return. Sure, having Marlboro as sponsor is impossible today, but you could still use the same livery with another red sponsor, Coca Cola for example, or even Huski Chocolate.
I come to you from the future to say that McLaren got a 1-2 finish at Monza, with Daniel Ricciardo winning the race.
@@sailor7537 I come to you from the future to say that McLaren is the worst team on the grid in 2023.
@apophisRO I come to you from the future to say McLaren are 5th in the championship after three races in 2023.
@@omuuboi i come to you from the future to say mclaren are no longer the 2nd best car
Very good video .
This channel is gold
1:58 that only would've happened, if not Hungarian GP fireworks.
make a video on the spy scandal please
An in in-depth into spy gate would be awesome
Nice story teller
So, basically mclaren screwed Honda over thanks to 1 person’s ego. Ok gotcha.
Wut?
Probably not the best way to describe, but i guess this is true?
I really like the imagine that McLaren has today. Lando and Sainz were an awesome team together and with Seidl and Zak they are just overal cool as a team.
Zac Brown is just a great guy...! It seems. (And hopefully is.)
Here's a video idea for the future, "Past f1 liveries that didn't show show logos, and why"
I've always wondered why McLaren didn't used to have McLaren logos or the name written on their old cars anywhere
great vid
Very nicely done 👍🏻 I'm convinced the crap honda went through with McLaren only made them stronger, look at what they are providing for RB at this moment in time.
Wish Mclaren could have an exclusive deal in the future especially if the new engines are cost efficient
WTF1 did a short go into Spygate, but I'd love to see a real deep dive into it in your guys' style. I feel that's a subject that's better approached in THE RACE-esque videos.
Just imagine if the relationship never soured and McLaren had experienced all the success of the modern Mercedes.
Engineering is not built on wishes and woulda,coulda or what if.
@@manu-tonyo9654 Wishes are a dream and could have engineered for more success.
Mercedes owes its domination to Hamilton as much as he owes it to the team
No
The MP4-14 was the best looking car of the era. I hated them back then, but still loved those machines.
Excellent video Race thank you. I have always wondered why Mclaren split with Mercedes and this explans it very well. I would love to see a video Fully covering the spygate scandel. So theoeticaly Mclaren could have had a Car designed by Adrian Newy, with a works Mercedes engine and with Lewis Hamilton driving it. Oh what dominace that could have been.
McLaren going be my career mode team
Because of the economic crisis and rate of unemployment, now is the best time to invest and make money💯
You can say that again
Investing in cry'pto currency is one of the best chance of making money nowadays.
Crypto is the new gold
I've also been trading with her, profits are secure and over a 100% return on investments
Trading without a professional like Expert Stacey is like gambling with your money
Great great video
Yes, please do a video on the fine.
McLaren-Mercedes: we have the best engine and the best car.
Merc: We need to split-up.
McLaren: Why?
Merc: Because you got the Ferrari blueprint.
McLaren: We'll share it with you.
Merc: Really? Show us my friend.
After acquiring ferrari specs...
Merc: We really need to split up.
McLaren: Why?
Merc: Because you already gave us what we need. So we dont need you anymore.
Bottas is better than Perez
Hahah yeah clearly shown in the points 🤣
@@arnavmisra2076 bottas has been really unlucky otherwise he would be 3rd In the standings
East is better than west
Yeah, yeah Jake, and the Soviet Union was better than the west.
I mean, bottas is seriously off the pace sometimes though, look at baku.
And then McLaren and Honda split up, wich caused Honda working with Red Bull, wich ended up with a Honda world champion winning over a Mercedes driver. This two motor companies really deserve a movie
Great video and story. I would very much like to see a video on the spy-gate scandal.
I'd love to see a vid about the espionage bit... another fascinatong controversy